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How Trump’s Fight With the Pope Backfired | Pivot

April 14, 2026 / 57:13

This episode of Pivot covers political commentary on Donald Trump's recent actions, including his attacks on Pope Francis, the implications of the U.S. blockade of Iran, and Eric Swalwell's resignation amid allegations of misconduct. Scott Galloway and Cara Swisher discuss the fallout from these events, including the impact on the Republican Party and the California governor's race.

Scott Galloway expresses confusion over Trump's criticism of Pope Francis, noting that it alienates evangelical Christians. He reflects on Trump's political instincts and the potential consequences of his actions. Cara Swisher agrees, emphasizing the Pope's articulate stance on war and the importance of diplomacy.

The conversation shifts to Eric Swalwell's resignation from Congress due to allegations of sexual misconduct. Swisher and Galloway analyze the political ramifications of his departure and the crowded field for the California governor's race, suggesting that it may benefit billionaire Tom Styer.

They also discuss the recent attacks on Sam Altman's home, linking it to rising anti-tech sentiments and the need for better regulation of technology companies. The episode concludes with a brief overview of other news topics, including the implications of a potential merger in Hollywood and Elon Musk's political contributions.

TL;DR

Scott Galloway and Cara Swisher discuss Trump's attacks on Pope Francis, Eric Swalwell's resignation, and rising anti-tech sentiments impacting Sam Altman.

Episode

57:13
00:00:00
Don't [ __ ] with El Papo. Even though I I
00:00:03
always think there's certain political
00:00:04
instincts that the president has that I
00:00:07
don't see that end up being less wrong
00:00:10
than I thought and sometimes right, I do
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not see any upside here.
00:00:20
>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
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Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
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Network. I'm Carara Swisser
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>> and I'm Scott Galloway.
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>> Y'all back. I see
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>> back. That's right. That's right.
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>> Did you have a good time off? Did you
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have a nice time?
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>> Yeah, I didn't do a whole lot, but yeah,
00:00:34
it was really nice. I was in Florida, a
00:00:36
lot of walks on the beach with my dogs.
00:00:39
Um, actually got kind of bored, which
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was a a lovely and strange time.
00:00:43
>> Well, we missed you. We had some good
00:00:44
hosts, but no one is you. Anyway, we got
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to get to things. Let's get to things.
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There's a lot of news. Jesus Christ,
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there was so much while you're away. I
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think we've forgotten that stuff. But
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Poplio says he has no fear of the Trump
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administration after the president
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lashed out at him on true social Sunday
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night. Trump called the pope quote weak
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on crime and quote terrible on foreign
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policy in his post. Neither one of those
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are his jobs. He accused Pope Leo of
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quote catering to the radical left and
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then told him to focus on quote being a
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great pope not a politician. Trump later
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posted an AI generated image of himself
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as Jesus, though it looks like he might
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have deleted it and told reporters that
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he thought the image was him as a
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doctor. Oh my god, he's such a liar.
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We'll get to Well, let me get it all.
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It's not just the Pope. Trump called out
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Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, Candace
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Owens, and Alex Jones over over their
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criticism of the war last week. Alex
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Jones responded, "We are witnessing the
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Epstein presidency." He's a nod to Scott
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Galloway there. That Candace Owens said
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that it may be time to put grandpa up in
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a home. Uh, let's see. We'll get to the
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latest on the war, but first, talk about
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this this alienation of everybody. It
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seems demented. He was tweeting all last
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night from like 9:00 p.m. to 4:00 a.m.
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like regularly. Thoughts?
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>> I I don't see the strategy here. And
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granted, I think Trump has had an
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ability to zag when everyone else is
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zigging. I thought one of the greatest
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insights in political history was when
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Trump told somebody, "Everybody claims
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to be socially liberal and fiscally
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conservative." He said, "The key is to
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be fiscally liberal and socially
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conservative." And it struck me that
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that was sort of a genius political
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positioning.
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But I failed to see how alienating a
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core constituency, the Republican party,
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and that is evangelical Christians by
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taking on the pope. I mean, people say
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social security is the third rail. I do
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think the American public is coming to
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grips with the fact that the wealthiest
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generation in the history of the planet
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probably shouldn't be taking $1.2
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trillion from the most anxious, obese,
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and depressed generation in history, and
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that's people under the age of 40. But
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that used to be the third rail, but I
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would argue kind of the most obvious
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third rail. You don't go after the I
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mean, El Don't [ __ ] with El Papa. So I I
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just even though I I always think
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there's certain political instincts that
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the president has that I don't see that
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end up being less wrong than I thought
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and sometimes right
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>> I do not see any upside.
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>> Also an articulate pope a very
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articulate and younger pope.
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>> Outstanding, smart, measured everything
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you would want in a leader.
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>> Uh what are your thoughts? I don't get
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this at all.
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>> I I think this guy is incredibly
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popular. I don't I don't understand why.
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I think he's jealous of his popularity
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and his intelligence. And you know, this
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guy's been speaking out as as popes
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sometimes do on wars. You know, Francis
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did the same thing. And we don't want to
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see all this war. And the way you talk
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about like last week when you weren't
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here talking, you know, the decimation
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of a civilization um in just as a as a
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tactic. It was just demented. It was
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demented. And I think he was responsibly
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talking out the way a pope might do. And
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he has been very firm on war. Like,
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let's stop it. let's stop the war thing.
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He's still, you know, awfully
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conservative even though you you don't
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think about it, but he see I suppose he
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seems liberal because he says no war. I
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don't know how that is no war cuz and he
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dubtales by the way with the media with
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the MAGA media which is very against the
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war like not just Marjorie Taylor Green
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another one there's bunches of them that
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are now Tim P all of them are sort of I
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mean to an extent um Rogan but he of
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course you know high-fived him at this
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whatever wrestling stupid thing they
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were at um but I think you know they're
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like mega media doesn't speak full of
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MAGA I'm like they kind of do they kind
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of there's millions and millions and
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millions of followers and they're
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growing like crazy. And so I'm not so
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sure picking a fight with these mouth
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mouthy people from Alex Jones to Megan
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Kelly and Tucker Carlson and Candace and
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Owen and um uh Marjorie Taylor Green's a
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particularly good idea at this moment,
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but I don't know. I think he, as I've
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said, I think he's suffering deeply
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cognitively and he's losing it. That's
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my feeling. Just looking at the tweets
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seems to me.
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>> Yeah, he it does feel like he's lashing
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out. I don't. Yeah, I I I'm having
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trouble. Susie Wilds has ended up being
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more genius than crazy. This just feels
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crazy. It feels as if
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>> Yeah, she's she is breast cancer. You
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know, she's may not be as there as
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present. She says she is, but it feels
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like she's gone left the building.
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>> I didn't know.
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>> Um I don't know who's around him. And
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then look, Marco Rubio looked like a
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loser at that W, whatever, whatever was
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happening. The MF whatever the fight
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>> invited the UFC fight at the White
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House. Yeah, you have to go.
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>> No, there's no way I'm going.
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>> Oh, come on. With a little camera on
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your head. That would have been good.
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>> I find UFC fights disturbing. I really
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don't like seeing young men who are in
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peak physical shape beating each other
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up like that. I just
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>> even boxing, which I think is I can see
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is such an in some ways such
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>> so incredible. U even that disturbs me
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now as I get older.
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>> I went to a lot of boxing match with my
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grandfather when I was a kid. Not a lot,
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but enough wrestling. He was into
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wrestling, boxing. Uh my brother Jeff
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went to a lot of them anyway. He was a
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big sports and wrestling and boxing nut,
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but um and was a promoter in of a lot of
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stuff up in Norththeast Pennsylvania.
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>> Cole and boxing and you turned out
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lesbian. What a shocker.
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>> What a shocker.
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>> I know. I know. I think I think Trump
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>> it's in the batter. You homophobe.
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Anyways, I can just hear people now
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going have something to do with your
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environment.
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>> Yes. Yes. I think it had to exactly I'm
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a lesbian because my grandfather took me
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to boxing. Um, so as of this recording,
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by the way, the the point is it's all
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about um what's happening in Iran and
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with Iran and the blockade of the Strait
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of Hormuz is underway with more than 15
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US warships in place to support the Oh
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my god, this feels like a bad idea.
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Trump announced the blockade plan on
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Sunday, accusing Iran of world
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extortion. His threats came, he No, his
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threats came after peace talks ended, as
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you know, without a resolution, which
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often happens. By the way, I give JD
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Vance a hard time, but these things take
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time. Obviously, um he was there leading
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the negotiations with the US and said
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Iran chose not to accept our terms. I
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think there was issues around the
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nuclear proliferation stuff. Um Trump is
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also reportedly looking at limited
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military strikes in Iran in addition to
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the blockade. Um uh it's really um hard
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for him because he's stuck, as you said,
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he's painted himself into a corner many
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times. Um they're not budging. Um and
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and also uh one of I want to note we've
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seen a big new type of target in this
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war, big tech data centers. Last month,
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Amazon data centers in the UAE and
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Bahrain were damaged in drone strikes
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and Iran has been threatening to attack
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US companies in the Middle East. I don't
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know what to say here. What a mess. He
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just can't like get himself out of this
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situation since these people aren't
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budging. even if they're on their back
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foot, they're still have advantage in a
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very in a weird way the way Ukraine does
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with Russia in in you know it's very
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hard to unseat them.
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So I actually think the illuminating
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analogy here is the WGA strike and that
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is key. Robert McNamera um said this
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back in the Vietnam War that to to
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defeat an enemy you have to really
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understand them and also you have to
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understand the incentives at play. And
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so going back to the WGA strike, they
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said, "All right, we're going to shut
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we're going to go on strike, which means
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your ability to create content has been
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cut off." But what they didn't realize
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is the most powerful person on the other
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side of the table was Netflix. And
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Netflix could look around and say,
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"Okay,
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our queue, you know, people's playlist
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is 2 or 3 years deep. I could watch
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Netflix for the next two or three years
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and still not get through my playlist."
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linear TV, especially late night TV,
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which people tune in every night.
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They're not interested in
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watching Jimmy Kimmel run down the day
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news from two years ago. The other
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streaming networks who had not been
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spending $18 billion a year, who had
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spent 102 billion a year, their pool was
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really shallow. So, the most powerful
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person on the other side of the table
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had an incentive to not come to an
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agreement. And the WGA never recognized
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that they were negotiating against
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themselves because the the other side
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would pretend to care and not offend
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anybody and make sure the strike went on
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for as long as possible to seed
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advantage to Netflix as everybody else.
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All that happened coming out of that
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that strike was the most powerful player
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on the other side of the table garnered
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and registered additional value. And
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this is exactly what's going on here.
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And to a certain extent, JD Vance would
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they poured honey on them and send them
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hunting for bears because the reality is
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the incentive was to draw out the talks
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for two or 3 weeks
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have an opportunity to maybe rearm
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regroup your missile launch capability,
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lay some more mines in the straight of
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Hormuz. But their incentive is for this
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thing to go longer because they have
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stumbled upon visav our in are up your
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ass strategic planning around not going
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in with allies around not securing the
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straight of horn moves before military
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action but no goals not not enabling and
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coordinating with our Gulf allies. Iran
00:09:52
Iran has we have given Iran something
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that quite frankly is probably
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more dangerous and effective than
00:10:00
enriched uranium and that is their
00:10:02
ability to put a strangle hold on a
00:10:05
chokeold of the global economy called
00:10:06
the strait. So they have an incentive
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for this to go longer. Right now the
00:10:12
IRGC looks to be gaining strength, not
00:10:15
losing it through this. They have shown
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an ability to resist or survive this
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type of military action and they have
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stumbled upon a choke point which has
00:10:24
given them unbelievable political
00:10:26
>> they had but didn't think they had
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before. This is it's a really and sort
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of Trump's like don't block that
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straight and it'll be interesting with
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US ships there now. This could be an an
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economic way to squeeze them, which is
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important, I think, as always.
00:10:42
>> Um, but it puts like I'm like a ship is
00:10:45
there. Oh my god, a drone, a speedboat
00:10:47
coming towards it. You just feel like
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they're we're kind of big and right out
00:10:51
there. So open for attack in a way that
00:10:54
they don't have to do much to really
00:10:57
create a problem for all of us, right?
00:10:59
So that's 15 ships sitting there like,
00:11:02
"Oh geez, this guy, this is a guy who
00:11:05
govern who who campaigned on America
00:11:07
first and not this." So I think it would
00:11:09
only hurt his political standing here
00:11:12
and at the same time make him crazier
00:11:14
than ever when they don't behave, which
00:11:16
they don't want. They don't have to
00:11:17
behave and it's their it's, you know,
00:11:20
they have the I guess they have the home
00:11:22
advantage in some weird way compared
00:11:24
unless we really want to commit troops.
00:11:26
I can't I can't imagine being I don't
00:11:28
have sympathy for JD Vance because I
00:11:30
think he's the cyber truck of
00:11:31
politicians but he they really put him
00:11:35
like in a situation and he was not going
00:11:37
to succeed in these talks and he also
00:11:39
sent him you know failed venture
00:11:42
capitalist with two real estate people
00:11:44
and then apparently the guy who's
00:11:46
leading I was reading David Ignatius's
00:11:47
column and I'm going to mispronounce his
00:11:49
name so I'm not going to leading it is
00:11:51
one of the possible candidates to run
00:11:52
Iran at some point very very worldly
00:11:55
person high level on every ad. They sent
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apparently their best people and we sent
00:12:00
them which is like I know we probably
00:12:03
sent experts with them too, but it's not
00:12:05
like we aren't showing our finest
00:12:07
diplomatic
00:12:08
showing if we're going to have any
00:12:10
serious if maybe maybe he doesn't and
00:12:12
he's like I don't care if it works or
00:12:13
not. That's not some messaging from the
00:12:15
president you like to hear. I don't
00:12:17
know. He just keeps stepping in it
00:12:18
because he's old. The majority of
00:12:20
battles are won before anyone steps on
00:12:22
the field and that is their supply
00:12:23
chain, their strength, their military,
00:12:26
their brute force advantage. This
00:12:27
negotiation was over before it started
00:12:29
because one group showed up with with
00:12:31
incentives to not negotiate or to extend
00:12:34
the negotiations to rearm but not to
00:12:36
come to an agreement. Now having said
00:12:38
that to be fair this is in my view the
00:12:41
exact right move given where we are
00:12:42
right now and that is that we block the
00:12:45
straight of Hormuz from any Iranian
00:12:47
ports because that will bring European
00:12:49
allies and China to the table who quite
00:12:52
frankly
00:12:53
>> who who have more to lose than we do now
00:12:56
this notion of we broke it you fix it
00:12:59
diminishes our credibility globally for
00:13:01
a long time but something we have taken
00:13:03
for granted
00:13:04
>> like a lot of things we've taken for
00:13:06
granted that to took huge sacrifice,
00:13:08
huge resources, a lot of brave patriots
00:13:11
from around the world giving their lives
00:13:13
such that we can enjoy these things. One
00:13:15
of those things is the freedom of
00:13:17
maritime navigation. And that is
00:13:19
Singapore has decided not to sequester
00:13:22
and block and control the straits of
00:13:24
Singapore. And if you if you start
00:13:27
blocking straits through the fear of
00:13:29
military action such that no will ensure
00:13:32
the hundred or $200 million of cargo
00:13:34
that straight is blocked off. So
00:13:37
everybody especially the Gulf players
00:13:40
and most especially Russia, Iran and
00:13:43
China have a vested interest in the
00:13:46
Straight of Hormuz being open for their
00:13:48
ships. So America and I think this is
00:13:50
the right move have said okay
00:13:52
>> yeah many Ignatius thought so too. But
00:13:54
here's the thing. I just these little
00:13:56
drones and these little boats, I feel
00:13:58
like 15 US warships. Yikes. I just feel
00:14:01
like we are putting ourselves way out
00:14:04
there and unnecessarily
00:14:06
now that this is our only choice. That's
00:14:08
the problem. I think we, let's be clear,
00:14:12
not going to Congress, not enlisting
00:14:14
Gulf allies, not enlisting European
00:14:16
allies, not having a a clear exit
00:14:19
strategy after certain military
00:14:21
objectives were met or not met has put
00:14:24
us in the definition of a quagmire. But
00:14:26
right now, they have to say to to China
00:14:28
and Iran, we're going to create an
00:14:30
incentive for you to make sure that the
00:14:32
straight is open. and a multinational
00:14:34
force that keep keeps the straight open
00:14:38
to everyone's benefit that is job that
00:14:41
is objectives one
00:14:44
here no one wants to help Trump because
00:14:46
he's not Jesus um but like speaking of
00:14:48
the sad situation for JD Vance by the
00:14:51
way JD Vance happens to be Catholic so
00:14:53
that's even better uh and he failed in
00:14:55
Iran which I think everyone expected
00:14:58
despite some lastminute campaigning from
00:14:59
him as well as Trump's endorsement
00:15:01
Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orban
00:15:04
has been ousted after 16 years in power.
00:15:07
Not a good sign for the Trump people.
00:15:08
Orban conceded defeat in the country's
00:15:11
general election on Sunday, saying the
00:15:12
results are painful but unequivocal. His
00:15:15
opponent, Peter Maguar, called the
00:15:17
election a miracle, telling supporters
00:15:18
that we have liberated Hungary and have
00:15:20
taken back our country. By the way,
00:15:21
Magar was a loyalist of Orban and just
00:15:24
broke with him over a pardon. Um, and so
00:15:27
he it's like as if a rhino Republican
00:15:30
won essentially. He's not, you know, Mr.
00:15:32
or liberal in any way. More than 77% of
00:15:35
registered voters cast ballots. Amazing.
00:15:37
The highest turnout in a Hungarian
00:15:38
election since the fall of communism.
00:15:41
You know, it's a really interesting
00:15:42
winner. Obviously, he's super handsome
00:15:44
and kind of sexy and everything else,
00:15:46
but he's not he's not as liberal as you
00:15:49
think. Let's just be clear. Um, and he
00:15:51
also was an Orban uh in the Orban
00:15:53
University. He switched parties, but
00:15:55
again, it's very much like, oh, who who
00:15:57
has switched? I don't know. George
00:15:59
Conway becoming the president. You know
00:16:00
what I mean? someone who was
00:16:02
conservative and now is it looks as if
00:16:05
he's not. Um, so and and George can be
00:16:07
conservative and liberal and different
00:16:09
things, but he's also running for
00:16:12
Congress, by the way, but it's like
00:16:13
that. Is this an indicator of a larger
00:16:15
move away from the far right? I mean,
00:16:16
obviously Democrats can learn a lot. Um,
00:16:19
but this is a little different in in
00:16:21
Hungary, but it is a it's the end of an
00:16:23
era. And JD Vance and Trump hugged bear
00:16:26
hugged Orban. So, and so did uh Tucker
00:16:29
Carlson. So did um Elon Musk, that whole
00:16:33
gang did also. Thoughts
00:16:35
>> since the US's decision to bomb Iran or
00:16:38
increase whatever you want to call it,
00:16:40
increase the military escalation or some
00:16:42
people would call it a new war. This is
00:16:44
the biggest thing that's happened in the
00:16:45
last month. This is Europe uh and a key
00:16:49
component and a healthy important
00:16:51
powerful economy saying rejecting the
00:16:54
movement to the far right. He said nice
00:16:56
things about said he hopes the UK
00:16:58
rejoins the European Union. It is a huge
00:17:00
win for UK the for Ukraine. They are
00:17:03
pro- Ukraine and it is a huge defeat for
00:17:06
Russia that was hoping to turn Orban and
00:17:09
Hungary into a Russian satellite. Orban
00:17:12
was the friction that way.
00:17:14
>> Orban was the friction in more European
00:17:16
aid and support of Ukraine. It says
00:17:19
something. It was symbolic that JD Vance
00:17:22
went over there and after going over
00:17:24
Orban's popularity actually went down.
00:17:28
>> But something even more important or I
00:17:30
would argue more important happened.
00:17:31
>> The people
00:17:33
>> they had the the largest turnout in the
00:17:36
history of Hungary. More a much greater
00:17:38
percentage of Hungarians voted than have
00:17:41
ever voted in a US election. There were
00:17:43
people singing in the metro. There were
00:17:45
people laughing and crying. This was
00:17:48
this was really a wonderful moment for
00:17:51
the West. And that's still not the best
00:17:52
thing that happened here. The best thing
00:17:54
that happened and it's a real testament
00:17:58
to Victor Orban was he conceded the
00:18:02
election.
00:18:04
He said he he he thanked his people. He
00:18:07
talked about Hungary and he conceded the
00:18:11
election. And when I saw three judges
00:18:14
who were being seeking Senate approval
00:18:17
to become judges, and all three of those
00:18:20
[ __ ] and when I say [ __ ] I mean
00:18:22
someone who has a low character. I use
00:18:23
it as an androgynous comment, refused to
00:18:26
acknowledge that Biden had won the 2020
00:18:29
election. Victor Orban has greater
00:18:31
character now than many of our
00:18:33
Republican- elected officials. If you do
00:18:36
not concede elections, the very basis,
00:18:39
the very foundation of democracy does
00:18:41
not exist. And a right-wing, some people
00:18:45
would call fascist in Eastern Europe had
00:18:48
the decency and the character to concede
00:18:51
the election.
00:18:52
>> Yep. Absolutely. I mean, he's a, you
00:18:54
know, it'll be interesting to see what
00:18:55
he does next. He'll probably become a
00:18:57
right-wing figure, but it seems like
00:18:58
right-wingery is sort of on the way out.
00:19:00
This guy is a dressed up version of a
00:19:02
conservative for sure, but at the same
00:19:04
time he was, as you said, back in
00:19:06
Ukraine, was not a satellite of Russia.
00:19:08
Let's hope he, you know, he certainly
00:19:10
looks great. I know it's say he's he
00:19:11
seems young and vibrant. Orbin seems old
00:19:13
and corrupt essentially. And so it'll be
00:19:16
interesting to see which way he goes,
00:19:17
how he deals with, well, Trump's, I
00:19:19
think Trump is a past tense figure at
00:19:21
this point for a lot of these leaders,
00:19:23
whoever it happens to be. Um, but it's
00:19:25
really is interesting. And you're right,
00:19:27
this country looked like when I saw all
00:19:29
those crowds, all those people, I was
00:19:31
like, "Oh, this guy's absolute toast in
00:19:34
the way people are handling it." And
00:19:36
they just they just were sick and tired
00:19:38
of corruption and fascism. And this this
00:19:40
is a country which has suffered at the
00:19:42
hands of fascists and different
00:19:44
difficult uh leaders for a long time.
00:19:46
So, what's our excuse? That's what I
00:19:48
say. Um anyway, let's take a quick
00:19:51
break. When we come back, Eric Swallwell
00:19:53
ends his campaign for governor of
00:19:54
California. What a mess.
00:19:56
>> Support for this show comes from
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netswuite.com/pivot.
00:21:05
Scott, we're back. Representative Eric
00:21:07
Swallwell of California says he is
00:21:10
resigning from Congress and has
00:21:12
suspended his campaign already for
00:21:14
California governor amid multiple
00:21:17
allegations of rape, sexual assault, and
00:21:19
misconduct. In a post on X, Wall said he
00:21:22
is quote deeply sorry for mistakes in
00:21:25
judgment I've made in my past and said
00:21:27
he would fight the quote false
00:21:29
allegations unquote. The allegations
00:21:31
triggered swift political fallout with
00:21:33
Swallwell losing nearly all of his
00:21:35
endorsements within 24 hours. The
00:21:38
governor's race remains crowded with
00:21:40
other leading Democrats being
00:21:42
billionaire Tommy Styer and former
00:21:44
representative Katie Porter. Just so
00:21:46
you're clear, this was started online by
00:21:48
someone named Miss Frazzled um who was
00:21:51
who had done a interview with Swallwell
00:21:53
and then had gotten a lot of incoming
00:21:55
about his behavior which is was very
00:21:57
well known across the spectrum. I did
00:22:00
not. But I I I think a lot of people
00:22:02
within politics knew about him the same
00:22:04
way I think many people knew about
00:22:06
Gonzalez. Like there's there's a lot of
00:22:08
men in politics that people know their
00:22:12
behavior. And I think this was pretty
00:22:13
well known, which is incredible that he
00:22:16
he walked into this um race with a bomb
00:22:19
strapped to his chest. He had to have
00:22:21
known. Or maybe he doesn't think he did
00:22:23
anything. That's what he seems to do. So
00:22:25
any thoughts on this? You could often
00:22:27
you could possibly see Kla Harris come
00:22:29
back in. I don't know. I don't I don't
00:22:31
What do you think about this? Steve
00:22:33
Hilton was ahead, just so you know. What
00:22:35
do you think's going to happen here?
00:22:36
>> Well, there's two things and that is its
00:22:38
impacts its impact on the governor's
00:22:40
race and then what this says about the
00:22:41
dynamic of of potential or accusations
00:22:45
of misconduct and how we're supposed to
00:22:47
evaluate that. So, I'll go in that
00:22:49
order. Uh I think this probably is going
00:22:52
to make Tom Star governor. I think that
00:22:55
California is still a heavily Democratic
00:22:57
state. I think if if the Democratic
00:23:00
if the Democrats consolidate to one or
00:23:03
two leaders and that person gets into
00:23:04
the general after the jungle primary,
00:23:07
what do you call I think the Democrat's
00:23:08
going to win and I think Starr has the
00:23:09
money. I think the next shoe to drop, I
00:23:11
think Speaker Pelosi was waiting till
00:23:14
there was some something resembling an
00:23:16
emerging leader here. I think it's Tom
00:23:18
Starr. I think she will endorse him. I
00:23:19
think he will
00:23:20
>> Roana already has. So is Gene Fonda,
00:23:22
interestingly. I think he will be one of
00:23:24
the two top candidates. He has the
00:23:26
money. The unions don't like him, but
00:23:28
money is more important than unions even
00:23:29
in California. I think I think with with
00:23:32
Swallwell dropping out in a
00:23:33
consolidation across the Democrats, I
00:23:36
think this is probably the moment that
00:23:37
we'll look back on and say this is how
00:23:39
Styer became governor. Now,
00:23:41
>> to the second issue, and we face this
00:23:44
all the time on boards.
00:23:46
>> When a senior level person has sex with
00:23:48
somebody and then that person accuses
00:23:50
them of harassment or conduct, sometimes
00:23:52
they're [ __ ] cases and
00:23:54
opportunistic. Other times there's a
00:23:56
power imbalance that the person takes
00:23:58
advantage of. My view on this [ __ ] is
00:24:00
the following. We We're not here and I
00:24:03
hate the Democratic Party for having
00:24:05
purity tests around people having sex. I
00:24:07
think when when Al Franken or whoever
00:24:11
gets run out of run out of dodge such
00:24:13
that Chris and Jill can have
00:24:14
>> terrible but go ahead
00:24:15
>> can have a sevenminute run for
00:24:17
presidency or people have extrammarital
00:24:19
affairs that in my view you know okay be
00:24:24
careful who you judge on this [ __ ] but
00:24:26
if you are and this is true on boards if
00:24:29
you once you are above a certain level
00:24:31
of power as a general not a general as a
00:24:35
red line you [ __ ] anybody who works
00:24:37
here, you're out. It creates too much
00:24:41
risk. So for me, the question is I if if
00:24:44
law enforcement needs to get involved
00:24:45
and decide if there was a crime here,
00:24:47
and sexual assault is obviously a very
00:24:48
serious crime,
00:24:49
>> needs to be investigated,
00:24:50
>> then have it investigated. But before
00:24:52
that even happens, if it's did you have
00:24:54
sex with a staffer as an elected
00:24:56
representative, if the answer is yes,
00:24:59
then you are out. If you're the
00:25:02
Secretary of Homeland Security and
00:25:04
you're [ __ ] your number two, then you
00:25:06
are out. If you're the attorney general
00:25:08
in Georgia investigating an important
00:25:11
case against the president and you are
00:25:12
[ __ ] your number two, then you are
00:25:15
out. The staffers are there to [ __ ] each
00:25:18
other, not the elected representative
00:25:19
who has power over them because all
00:25:21
you're doing is injecting risk into the
00:25:23
entire organization and there is a power
00:25:26
imbalance. So whether or not he's guilty
00:25:28
of sexual assault, the crime, the legal
00:25:31
authorities should investigate that. But
00:25:33
he should be out before that if he was
00:25:36
engaging in sexual relationships with
00:25:38
the staffers. There needs to be a clear
00:25:41
line here. There's too much of a power
00:25:43
imbalance.
00:25:44
>> What's interesting is how many people
00:25:46
knew about it, right? He's texted me to
00:25:48
he's wanted to come on the podcast and I
00:25:50
wrote back. I'm like, I'm waiting until
00:25:51
there's two left and then I'll think
00:25:53
about who we're going to, you know, I
00:25:54
think there's there was so many people
00:25:56
in this jungle
00:25:57
>> primary teams with us trying to get on.
00:25:59
>> Yeah, exactly. They were all every one
00:26:01
of them, every every candidate in
00:26:02
primaries, whether it's Iowa or Texas or
00:26:05
wherever, they're all trying to get on
00:26:06
these things. But I was like, well,
00:26:08
let's just wait till there's two, which
00:26:09
is what I told him. Um, but I did I did
00:26:13
think I was surprised to find out. And
00:26:15
by the way, kudos to the people online
00:26:18
who actually handled it rather well. It
00:26:20
was it was until nobody no credible
00:26:23
journalist from a major media
00:26:25
organization would look into it. Now, it
00:26:27
was broken. It was broken online by this
00:26:29
Miss Frazzled who did had done an
00:26:31
interview with him and then had a lot of
00:26:33
incoming. But she covers education. Like
00:26:36
that's the thing. And and I think a lot
00:26:38
of the political reporters had some
00:26:40
sense of this from what I could
00:26:41
understand. Um but it was broken by the
00:26:44
Chronicle and CNN. Um Pam Brown did a
00:26:47
report on it. I was sort of flumxed by
00:26:51
one, why would you run when this many
00:26:54
things were you would be aware of things
00:26:57
you did and then two why nobody in media
00:26:59
had started to look at it because same
00:27:01
thing with Tony Gonzalez too like a lot
00:27:04
of the and there's more than that in
00:27:05
Congress that I don't think that you
00:27:07
should be on a hunt for this stuff
00:27:09
necessarily but this was really well
00:27:11
known now in hindsight like I think it
00:27:14
was kind of healthy for the Democratic
00:27:16
party to speak out right to like people
00:27:19
to even if they were friends with him or
00:27:22
had endorsed him. I thought that was
00:27:24
relatively healthy response from the
00:27:26
Democratic party for lots of reasons and
00:27:29
there should be an investigation. That's
00:27:30
exactly what every single party in this
00:27:33
deserves and the public should expect.
00:27:35
And that that that was the only part I
00:27:37
was sort of like really it was I mean I
00:27:39
had no I I was s not surp I guess I'm
00:27:43
not surprised any time by anything but I
00:27:45
was amazed by how many people within
00:27:47
these parties both of them know this
00:27:50
stuff pretty well. That always surprises
00:27:53
me. I don't know about you.
00:27:54
>> Look I think we need I mean there's just
00:27:57
need structural reform or this will
00:27:59
continue to happen. We need Citizens
00:28:00
United to go away. We need Jeremy to go
00:28:02
away. We need to pay representative
00:28:05
Swallwell and the other representatives
00:28:08
five to ten times more than they're
00:28:09
getting paid now such that they can do
00:28:11
their job and not have to compromise
00:28:13
themselves and start trading stocks. I
00:28:16
heard Ro Connell, one of my heroes, is
00:28:18
actually outperforming the S&P all of a
00:28:20
sudden. We need structural reform and
00:28:23
part of that structural reform is very
00:28:25
clear lines. And that is if you are a
00:28:27
powerful senator or congressperson, the
00:28:30
moment someone comes to work,
00:28:31
>> say any, not powerful, any
00:28:33
>> any 100% any any person elected to
00:28:36
federal office,
00:28:38
it's awesome to be you. You're going to
00:28:40
go, you have the best rap at a bar. What
00:28:43
do you do? Oh, I'm the I'm the elected
00:28:45
congressperson from the great state of
00:28:47
California. Wow, I would really like to
00:28:49
have sex with you.
00:28:52
Wow. You sir, we'll we'll find a
00:28:55
reservation for you. Sir, let us escort
00:28:57
you to your plane and circumvent
00:28:59
security. Sir, let us be let can you be
00:29:02
our honored guest? Can you be the
00:29:04
commencement speaker at your former high
00:29:05
school? It is awesome to be an elected
00:29:09
federal official. One of the few
00:29:12
downsides is that anyone who works for
00:29:15
you that you have power over their
00:29:18
livelihood, you cannot have sex with.
00:29:22
Simple, cut and dry. No story, no
00:29:25
context dependent. If you decide you
00:29:27
have feelings for each other, then one
00:29:29
of you needs to resign and pursue the
00:29:31
relationship because it creates way too
00:29:35
much risk, distraction from the
00:29:38
important work they do. And guess what?
00:29:40
I I'm sympathetic. And by the I don't
00:29:42
I'm not one of these people that doesn't
00:29:43
believe in intraoffice romance. If you
00:29:46
get a bunch of people in a close and
00:29:47
tense environment, they're going to
00:29:48
start having sex. It's the senior level
00:29:51
people that have power that don't get to
00:29:53
do it. The young people have at it. As
00:29:55
long as it's consensual, as long as no
00:29:58
one feels pressured, that's what young
00:30:00
people are supposed to be doing.
00:30:01
>> This case has more than that. This is
00:30:03
not just
00:30:03
>> that's not this. I agree with you.
00:30:05
>> Right. So, I mean, that's an that's it's
00:30:07
it's a problem for him. Let's have some
00:30:09
common sense laws. Yeah.
00:30:11
>> Or common sense norms and standards. All
00:30:14
right.
00:30:14
>> When you have this kind of power
00:30:17
imbalance, you are injecting risk and
00:30:20
your fly is up and locked. You take it
00:30:22
off campus. You want to have
00:30:24
extrammarital affairs. You want to have
00:30:25
orgies. You want to have sex with people
00:30:27
the same sex as you while passing anti-
00:30:30
or homophobic laws. Fine. It's a it's a
00:30:33
lack of character, but you don't get
00:30:34
expelled from Congress. You abuse your
00:30:37
power dynamic and inject the entire
00:30:39
office to risk. You're out. Make it
00:30:42
simpler for them. No gray area,
00:30:44
>> I guess. I don't know. We'll see what
00:30:46
happens here. It's not a great story.
00:30:48
Anyway, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant
00:30:50
met with the country's top bank
00:30:51
executives last week along with Fed
00:30:53
Chair Jerome Powell, warning them about
00:30:55
Anthropic's new Mythos model. Bessent
00:30:58
raised concerns about cyber security,
00:30:59
making sure banks are aware of the risk,
00:31:01
taking precautions. Anthropic itself has
00:31:03
been sounding the alarm saying mythos is
00:31:05
so powerful uh it's potentially danger
00:31:07
it's not been released to the public
00:31:08
yet. Instead they're keeping it to a
00:31:10
small group of companies to test to find
00:31:11
v it finds vulnerabilities in all manner
00:31:14
of places. This Bessant meeting appears
00:31:16
to be separate from the Pentagon's clash
00:31:18
with anthropic which is still playing
00:31:19
out in court. Um, you know, this is
00:31:22
really a problem where the as these as
00:31:26
these models continue to evolve in terms
00:31:29
of uh staying too far ahead of the
00:31:31
defense. The offense is much stronger
00:31:34
than the defense. Um, and of course,
00:31:36
Bessant uh is talking to banks about
00:31:38
using it, but also at the same time
00:31:40
using it to protect themselves. What a
00:31:42
mess. What a mess. Another mess.
00:31:45
>> Yeah. I don't have a I find that the
00:31:48
worst thing to do right now is to be a
00:31:50
cabinet memory going on and trying to
00:31:52
trying to defend these policies. I don't
00:31:56
I
00:31:57
>> I think it is the government's interest
00:31:58
to help companies figure out as these
00:32:01
see one might start to regulate these
00:32:03
things in terms of the way we do
00:32:05
everything else nuclear arms etc etc
00:32:08
development of of important technologies
00:32:11
and if it's going to be dangerous to
00:32:12
companies and let everyone in the back
00:32:14
and take everybody's money it seems I
00:32:16
don't know B I mean Bessence is doing
00:32:19
the right thing here but it's just
00:32:20
ridiculous that they have that the
00:32:22
Pentagon is then mooring with Anthropic
00:32:24
which came forward which companies
00:32:26
usually don't in this case. Often
00:32:27
companies keep it to themselves until a
00:32:29
disaster. All right, Scott, let's go on
00:32:31
a quick break. When we come back, Sam
00:32:32
Alton's home gets targeted in multiple
00:32:35
attacks.
00:32:36
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All investing is subject to risk.
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Vanguard Marketing Corporation
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distributor.
00:33:32
Scott, we're back with more news. Sam
00:33:33
Alman's home was targeted twice over the
00:33:35
weekend. Once with a suspect throwing a
00:33:37
Molotov cocktail and the second time
00:33:38
with a car stopping, firing a gun at the
00:33:40
residence. Lives in San Francisco. The
00:33:42
subject in the first suspect in the
00:33:44
first attack was later found at the Open
00:33:46
AI headquarters threatening to burn down
00:33:48
the building. Probably has some mental
00:33:50
problems. Sam Alman responded to the
00:33:52
first attack in a blog post saying he
00:33:53
emphasized with anti-technology
00:33:55
sentiments and clearly technology isn't
00:33:57
always good for everyone. In the post,
00:33:59
Sam Alman noted that the incident came a
00:34:02
few days after an incendiary article was
00:34:04
published about him and the New Yorker
00:34:06
raising questions about his
00:34:07
trustworthiness. He shouldn't blame the
00:34:08
article. It was an excellent article by
00:34:11
uh Ronan Pharaoh. that's not what caused
00:34:12
it. Uh but nearly a third of young
00:34:14
adults say AI makes them angry. These
00:34:16
are new polls. Um you know this is
00:34:18
unfortunately where it leads these and
00:34:20
and to blame using the word incendiary
00:34:23
was really unfortunate on Alman's
00:34:25
behalf. Um but there is you know this is
00:34:29
I hate to blame someone for what's
00:34:30
happening here because anyone that uses
00:34:32
violence is should be widely derided um
00:34:35
by everybody. But it still is this is
00:34:38
how it goes. I used to say this to them.
00:34:40
If you don't if you don't do something
00:34:41
about this, you're going to have to
00:34:42
armor plate your tester unfortunately
00:34:44
cuz people start to get really
00:34:48
pro violent is what where it often leads
00:34:51
to. Your thoughts?
00:34:53
>> I just think there I mean speaking of
00:34:56
red lines here, we just can't we can't
00:34:59
in any way justify we have to move
00:35:01
swiftly against any violence against any
00:35:03
citizen. And
00:35:05
>> you know I'm not a fan of Sam Alman. I
00:35:07
think big tech has done tremendous
00:35:08
damage and these CEOs have done
00:35:10
tremendous damage to the United States
00:35:13
and most importantly to our youth
00:35:15
ripping at the fabric of America. We
00:35:17
have to have zero tolerance for violence
00:35:19
against them in any fashion. And um you
00:35:23
know I don't like Sam Alman. I I think
00:35:25
he's I I we were talking about this off
00:35:27
mic earlier when you were on my podcast.
00:35:29
I think there are few people who have
00:35:31
seen such a 180 in their brand in such a
00:35:33
short side of uh span of time.
00:35:36
Effectively the brand march of tech
00:35:38
executives is they're very likable.
00:35:40
They're very charming. We need to do
00:35:42
better. She should run for president.
00:35:44
Oh, I love her book. Lean in. And then
00:35:46
over time we find out that they make a
00:35:48
bunch of incremental decisions that are
00:35:49
bad for America such that they can get
00:35:51
richer and richer and eventually they
00:35:53
turn into a bond villain. That march is
00:35:54
usually about a 7 to 10 year march. For
00:35:57
Sam Alman was 18 months. Remember Sam
00:35:59
was the more thoughtful guy with the
00:36:01
hush tones like
00:36:03
>> there are really really we are very
00:36:05
concerned about some of the implications
00:36:07
of AI and we need oh senator I don't I
00:36:10
don't own any now but go ahead
00:36:12
>> I don't own any equity in yeah
00:36:14
>> in open AI oh what a guy this nice young
00:36:17
gay man in t-shirts who seems to be the
00:36:20
caring tech CEO okay I just want to go
00:36:23
on record of saying this guy's going to
00:36:25
this guy will say say or do anything to
00:36:27
make more money That's why they go into
00:36:29
this business. There are easier ways to
00:36:31
find self-satisfaction than running a
00:36:34
tech company right now. You're there for
00:36:36
the money. You get tremendous pressure
00:36:38
and obligation to represent your
00:36:39
shareholders. You want to win. It is a
00:36:42
thunderdome. It is easy to understand
00:36:43
why they get there. The real failure is
00:36:45
there's abs fuckingutely no regulation
00:36:47
on these individuals. And so when people
00:36:51
start coming at them, like I don't like
00:36:54
it when people start yelling insults
00:36:56
verbally at JD Vance. I I think there
00:36:59
has to be a level of civility and safety
00:37:01
such that we work things out at a
00:37:02
government level. And I know there's a
00:37:04
lot of people who disagree with my views
00:37:06
on Israel. People don't assault me
00:37:08
verbally on the street. I feel like I'm
00:37:12
poking the bear here. I think it's
00:37:14
important. I saw Senator John Ton in
00:37:16
Nantucket. I went up to him and I
00:37:18
thanked him for his service. I don't
00:37:20
agree. I disagree with almost everything
00:37:22
he does and I immediately disclosed I'm
00:37:24
a Democrat, but I said we're both
00:37:26
Americans. I we one of the hallmarks of
00:37:30
a progressive society that we all want
00:37:32
to live in is we recognize we're all
00:37:34
Americans and as long as we're operating
00:37:36
with the within the confines of the law,
00:37:38
which quite frankly Sam Alman is, and
00:37:39
that's the problem is there aren't any
00:37:41
laws,
00:37:42
>> he deserves to live
00:37:44
>> in peace and safety.
00:37:46
>> Yeah. Let me say he shouldn't have
00:37:47
blamed the article for it. This was a
00:37:49
rarely well-reported article. It did
00:37:50
not. Suddenly people don't hate Sam
00:37:52
Alman because of this article. They have
00:37:54
these feelings and unstable people act
00:37:56
on them because of a perceived uh
00:37:59
rapaciousness by tech companies. And so
00:38:01
>> it's probably a mentally ill young man.
00:38:03
>> That's correct. That's
00:38:04
>> who read about Sam Alman.
00:38:06
>> Yeah.
00:38:06
>> You know the the guy who killed John.
00:38:09
Crazy people are drawn. They believe
00:38:11
that in a in a historic act of violence,
00:38:15
it will restore or give them social
00:38:18
capital. That's why they do it there. I
00:38:21
don't know anything about this
00:38:22
individual, but there's a very good
00:38:24
chance it's someone who's isolated and
00:38:26
is hoping to gain social capital through
00:38:29
what they see is a heroic act of
00:38:31
violence. And the FBI and our security
00:38:34
apparatus need need to ensure that that
00:38:38
famous people can walk the streets and
00:38:41
have some semblance. My old home I
00:38:43
bought a home in San Francisco
00:38:46
and I bought it for $720,000 and two
00:38:49
years later I wanted to move to New York
00:38:51
and I sold it for $950,000 and thought I
00:38:53
was a [ __ ] real estate genius. That
00:38:55
home ended up being next to the home
00:38:57
where ultimately it's no longer there
00:38:59
now. So, you don't need to look up the
00:39:00
address, but it ended up being the home
00:39:02
next to where Mark Zuckerberg lived in
00:39:04
San Francisco in the neighborhood you
00:39:05
live in.
00:39:05
>> My neighborhood.
00:39:06
>> And now my home
00:39:08
>> is where his security detail lived.
00:39:11
>> Oh, yeah.
00:39:11
>> Because he had they basically started
00:39:13
blocking off the block. So, after that
00:39:16
election in the Netherlands, and I love
00:39:17
this, the prime minister stepped down
00:39:20
and then got on his bike and rode away.
00:39:23
I mean, I'm like, they they win. They
00:39:26
win.
00:39:28
He doesn't need the beast. He He doesn't
00:39:30
need it. He doesn't need his kids
00:39:31
escorted to school.
00:39:33
>> I have been unfortunately seeing the the
00:39:36
need for it. They do need it. It's
00:39:38
really crazy. But one of the things was
00:39:40
I was like, we got to deal with what's
00:39:42
happening here. You're going to have
00:39:43
crazy people attracted to you. It's
00:39:45
going to happen because it's inevitable.
00:39:47
And with just the enormous wealth, the
00:39:49
same thing. It's really creates real
00:39:52
problems. But you should not. Whoever
00:39:53
did these things are considering it. We
00:39:55
you are horrible people to that's how
00:39:57
you you deal with problems. There's lots
00:39:59
of ways to deal with problems and even
00:40:00
if you feel desperate you should seek
00:40:02
help.
00:40:03
>> The anger needs to be funneled towards
00:40:06
the ballot booth.
00:40:07
>> That's right.
00:40:08
>> And that is I need people who will keep
00:40:11
these people in check. I need people
00:40:13
that when Jeff Bezos or or Elon Musk
00:40:17
peace out to Florida and Texas that
00:40:19
there are elected representatives who
00:40:21
will figure out a way to tax the
00:40:22
earnings they accreted from the great
00:40:24
states of Washington and from
00:40:26
California. I need people who will
00:40:29
ensure that social media is gated. There
00:40:32
is no reason people under the age of 16.
00:40:34
But be clear folks, if you're waiting on
00:40:35
the better angels or these tech
00:40:37
executives to show up, don't hold your
00:40:38
breath. And then when they take
00:40:40
advantage of the system and it create
00:40:42
massive wealth,
00:40:44
>> that is not a cause for violence.
00:40:46
>> We do have to acknowledge there is an
00:40:47
huge I get yelled at for not stopping
00:40:50
Elon Musk before and I I I get like more
00:40:53
than yelled at like threatened. So I
00:40:55
don't know what to say. It's not the way
00:40:56
to handle these things. Anyway, uh
00:40:59
lastly, a quick grabag of other topics
00:41:01
I'd like to hit. Over a thousand
00:41:03
Hollywood heavyweights have released a
00:41:04
letter opposing Paramount's acquisition
00:41:06
of Warner Brothers Discovery, saying the
00:41:07
deal would harm the industry. Paramount
00:41:09
uh responded to the letter by saying,
00:41:11
"We hear and understand the concerns of
00:41:13
some in our creative community have
00:41:14
raised and respect the commitment to
00:41:16
protecting and expanding creativity.
00:41:18
This transaction brings together um
00:41:20
uniquely brings together complimentary
00:41:22
strengths to create a company that can
00:41:23
greenlight more projects, back bold
00:41:25
ideas, support talent across multiple
00:41:27
stages of their careers, and bring
00:41:28
stories to audiences of truly global
00:41:30
scale while strengthening competition by
00:41:32
ensuring multiple scale players in
00:41:34
investing and creative talent." Uh he
00:41:37
they also said they're going to they
00:41:38
have they continue their commitment to
00:41:40
increasing output to a minimum of 30
00:41:42
high-quality feature films with full
00:41:44
theatrical releases, continuing to
00:41:46
license content and brands. Um and he
00:41:49
they said we understand the concerns.
00:41:51
We're going to do what we say. Scott and
00:41:53
I do not believe them, but they they're
00:41:55
reestablishing their commitment to it.
00:41:57
Reaction, where's this going? Also,
00:41:59
Europe is looking like it's going to
00:42:00
possibly block part of it. Slow going.
00:42:03
They'll eventually get it through. What
00:42:04
is the greatest movie of all time?
00:42:06
Obi-Wan Jedi Obi-Wan Kenobi feels a
00:42:08
disturbance in the forest cuz the planet
00:42:10
of Aldderon is killed by a space laser
00:42:12
and millions of people screamed. If this
00:42:14
deal goes through, you're going to hear
00:42:16
millions of people in the creative
00:42:17
community scream because this is going
00:42:19
to be the most destructive
00:42:21
uh force of human capital in the
00:42:24
creative community we've ever seen.
00:42:26
There is no way they can justify this
00:42:27
price if they don't implement the AI
00:42:30
that they believe will give them the
00:42:32
efficiencies they need to justify this
00:42:34
price. So, I've been saying this for 3
00:42:36
months. Why the where the [ __ ] are the
00:42:38
unions?
00:42:39
>> So, if
00:42:40
>> this should have gone the way they were
00:42:41
going to do it, which was spin off CNN
00:42:44
and spin off the studios and then maybe
00:42:47
do acquisitions of pieces of it that
00:42:49
made economic sense. This is
00:42:51
>> they're too [ __ ] late. Too [ __ ]
00:42:53
late.
00:42:53
>> This letter should have come out. They
00:42:55
should have said to Ellison and and also
00:42:58
the Gulf States and the people financing
00:43:00
this deal,
00:43:01
>> the day this goes through, you are not
00:43:03
going to get a single piece of content
00:43:05
made.
00:43:06
>> This is unworkable for us.
00:43:09
>> Yep. Yep. Absolutely. And next one. Elon
00:43:12
Musk gave $10 million to two major
00:43:14
Republican super PACs at the end of last
00:43:15
year according to campign finance
00:43:17
disclosure. Then the FDC investigated ad
00:43:19
firms that had steered clear of Twitter
00:43:21
as they are allowed to do and those firm
00:43:23
just settled to make it all go away. I
00:43:26
just this is rid he's been using the FCC
00:43:28
the FTC in all manner of ways including
00:43:31
Marco Rubio around the center for
00:43:33
countering digital hate in order to get
00:43:35
his beasts won that he can't win in
00:43:37
court. Uh and the FTC does this and
00:43:39
these firms finally just settled even
00:43:41
though it's within their right not to
00:43:42
not to advertise on a at a Nazi porn
00:43:45
bar. But quick thoughts.
00:43:48
>> This goes back to the same thing. That's
00:43:49
two things you need. You need structural
00:43:51
reform. He's allowed to do this. Until
00:43:53
we get rid of Citizens United,
00:43:54
billionaires are going to continue to
00:43:56
control more and more. Billionaires and
00:43:57
corporations are going to continue to to
00:44:00
leak or we're going to continue to leak
00:44:02
capital from labor and the middle class
00:44:04
and consumers to billionaires and
00:44:06
corporations because of their ability to
00:44:08
strategically weaponize government. 300
00:44:11
people now are responsible for a fifth
00:44:13
of all tax spending. And guess what?
00:44:15
They can deploy it wherever they need it
00:44:16
strategically. The best ROI in history.
00:44:19
I've said this personally. I give a
00:44:20
little bit of money to politicians. I'm
00:44:22
shocked. I don't mind that they're
00:44:24
[ __ ] What shocked me is what cheap
00:44:25
horses they are.
00:44:26
>> When I You don't expect the FTC and the
00:44:29
FCC.
00:44:29
>> I don't ask for anything. But my point
00:44:31
is,
00:44:31
>> but I'm saying usually those agencies
00:44:33
didn't do this and now they look this
00:44:36
has been going on for a while. These
00:44:38
guys are more brazen about it and quite
00:44:39
frankly more efficient about it. There
00:44:41
needs to be an absolute restriction.
00:44:43
Until Citizens United is overturned,
00:44:46
we're going to have more and more of
00:44:48
this. Also, until this this straight
00:44:51
corruption, it used to be more opaque.
00:44:55
But I'm I'm I've said if I had someone
00:44:58
in prison who I wanted out, I think for
00:45:01
between$1 and3 million through a third
00:45:03
party, I could get them out within 24
00:45:05
months.
00:45:06
>> Yeah. the head of the FTC and the head
00:45:07
of the FCC really are are are creatures
00:45:10
of these of Elon Musk essentially and
00:45:12
others. Um, and a federal judge has
00:45:15
dismissed President Trump's. He doesn't
00:45:17
always win $10 billion lawsuit against
00:45:18
the Wall Street Journal which claimed
00:45:20
the paper defamed Trump with a story
00:45:22
saying he had sent the birthday card to
00:45:23
Jeffrey Epstein. Uh, the courts keep
00:45:26
pushing back at Trump and all, you know,
00:45:28
in this case the journal fought as
00:45:29
opposed to CBS and settled or or other
00:45:33
other ABC CBS settled. So, uh, it looks
00:45:36
like the journal has the real victory
00:45:37
here. Um, you know, I think good thing.
00:45:40
I mean, what a stupid he does all these
00:45:42
stupid nuisance cases and loses them.
00:45:45
>> We've been really weak on government
00:45:46
corruption. The one the silver lining
00:45:50
here, the thing that's holding is first
00:45:52
amendment. It does feel like both Trump
00:45:54
appointees and appointees before Trump
00:45:56
are saying free free speech is paramount
00:45:59
and we're yeah, we're going to throw
00:46:01
this out. The problem is is enough suits
00:46:04
creates a chill. I was talking to a
00:46:05
producer of a of a very popular show and
00:46:07
they said, "We're checking everything
00:46:09
now, double, triple checking, and
00:46:11
occasionally when something's on the
00:46:12
margin, we don't print it cuz we're
00:46:14
we're freaked out." So, but it does
00:46:16
appear when they these things do go to
00:46:18
court, they are universally swatted
00:46:20
away.
00:46:21
>> Swatted away. Absolutely. Well, we'll
00:46:23
see where that goes. He doesn't have
00:46:24
much time. Trump does not have much
00:46:26
time. All right, Scott, one more quick
00:46:28
break. We'll be back for wins and fails.
00:46:31
Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and
00:46:32
fails. Would you like to go first?
00:46:34
>> I'll go first. So, my win is Cara
00:46:36
Swisser Wants to Live Forever. I was
00:46:39
pleasantly surprised. I really shocked.
00:46:41
>> I I knew you would do a good job, but I
00:46:43
was really surprised, quite frankly, at
00:46:44
the production values. It feels
00:46:46
cinematic, the colors, the
00:46:47
cinematography.
00:46:49
>> It was It felt very rich, for lack of a
00:46:52
better word. It felt like an, you know
00:46:53
what I felt like? I thought that could
00:46:55
have easily been an original scripted
00:46:57
series on Apple TV. It felt very,
00:47:00
>> for lack of a better, just felt very
00:47:01
rich. So, congratulations. I I think
00:47:04
it's nice for you. I know you spent a
00:47:05
lot of time on it
00:47:07
>> and I really I've only seen the first
00:47:08
episode, but I really enjoyed it. Um,
00:47:11
>> and it airs Saturday night at 10:00.
00:47:13
When does it air?
00:47:14
>> 9. Saturday night at 9.
00:47:15
>> Unless JD Vance does
00:47:17
go every week.
00:47:19
>> That made me so happy.
00:47:20
>> I know it.
00:47:21
>> I'm like, "Oh my god." I turned it on. I
00:47:22
turned it on because I want I want you
00:47:24
to have good numbers. And And I turned
00:47:26
on both TVs. I don't know if they count
00:47:28
them twice. And then I see JD Vance. I'm
00:47:31
like, "This has to be." I'm like, "I'd
00:47:34
love to see Cara's face when she saw JD
00:47:35
Vance at her in her hour
00:47:37
>> slot." We laughed. You know, we had an
00:47:38
extra cop. We had a party. We were
00:47:40
having a party in DC. Tammy had it ran
00:47:42
it. Um, and we had a copy of the show,
00:47:45
so we were able to show it to people.
00:47:47
But first, we're like, "Oh, fuck." And
00:47:48
it just The thing is CNN had a picture
00:47:50
of a door. Did you see that? For an
00:47:52
hour. There was the door that JD Vance
00:47:55
was behind. And so it was just the door
00:47:58
>> where he came out and said, "We've got
00:47:59
nothing accomplished."
00:48:01
>> Yeah.
00:48:01
>> I know. Yeah.
00:48:02
>> Yeah. No. So that's my
00:48:04
>> Thank you, sweetie.
00:48:05
>> That's my win. My fail out. It's not
00:48:07
even a It's not even a fail. I have two
00:48:08
wins.
00:48:10
>> Look, the election in in Hungary is so
00:48:15
huge and so wonderful on a lot of
00:48:16
levels. But my win is Victor Orban. I I
00:48:19
I if a fascist who ruled for 16 years
00:48:24
can concede an election, so can we. So
00:48:28
can we. And think about what we have
00:48:30
done in this country. If you had a team,
00:48:33
a basketball team and a head coach and
00:48:35
they lost 68 to72 and then the head
00:48:38
coach refused to shake the hand, told
00:48:41
his team, "We won the game," told the
00:48:45
media we won the game, refused to show
00:48:47
up for the the medal ceremony or
00:48:49
whatever it was, would you decide to
00:48:51
make that guy the head of the league?
00:48:54
I if we can't have the peaceful transfer
00:48:57
of power, none of this other [ __ ]
00:49:00
matters. And Victor Orban, who I'm not a
00:49:03
fan of,
00:49:04
>> who I am not a fan of.
00:49:06
>> Yeah.
00:49:06
>> Understood. Understood. He said his
00:49:10
>> for now he's only 62. So, okay.
00:49:13
>> But he said, Orban said he congra he
00:49:16
called to congratulate Maguar. Is that
00:49:19
his name?
00:49:20
>> Maguar.
00:49:20
>> And he wrote Orban said the
00:49:22
responsibility and possibility of
00:49:24
governing was not given to us. I mean, a
00:49:29
simple line, a simple line, this guy
00:49:33
showed more fidelity to democracy
00:49:36
than not only our corrupt president, but
00:49:40
so many of the people who want to be a
00:49:43
judge are willing to do right now. So,
00:49:46
it's a strange win, but my win goes to
00:49:49
Victor Orban for conceding an election.
00:49:53
I am so thrilled for the Hungarian
00:49:55
people. It is an inspiration. the way
00:49:58
they have. And it also, quite frankly,
00:50:00
it bodess really well for us because we
00:50:02
are a lot more connected.
00:50:04
>> That's right. Than people believe.
00:50:06
>> You have to. Let's see. JD, when you
00:50:07
lose the presidency, you better act like
00:50:09
that. Anyway, uh I have a failed I
00:50:12
usually like when women say their peace,
00:50:15
but I thought two women this week
00:50:16
weren't so great. Melania Trump made a
00:50:18
rare speech to talk about
00:50:20
>> God, that was weird.
00:50:22
>> It had so much what the [ __ ] [ __ ] It
00:50:25
was what the hell? Why is she talking
00:50:26
about this? There m we thought there was
00:50:28
a story and then there just cuz she's
00:50:30
mad about it. She doesn't She's like I
00:50:33
was not a paid escort or sex trafficked,
00:50:36
you know, and it's like well like I
00:50:38
think she wants to make it clear she
00:50:40
isn't a prostitute. That's what or a se
00:50:43
sex
00:50:43
>> we all prostitutes at some point.
00:50:45
>> I know. I was like, "Well, you still you
00:50:47
like, okay, so you went through a
00:50:48
marriage broker kind of thing." Like,
00:50:50
she didn't do that, but you know, I
00:50:52
think she wants to doesn't want to. I
00:50:54
don't know what she was doing. I
00:50:56
thought, what in the actual [ __ ] is
00:50:58
happening here? And you know, they say
00:50:59
Trump didn't know, but there's such like
00:51:01
I was like, what is happening? And why
00:51:03
is Epstein back?
00:51:05
>> Like, oh, good. Let's talk about
00:51:07
Epstein. And then I think she like
00:51:09
crapped on those surviv the real
00:51:11
survivors who really did suffer because
00:51:13
you know just to get her little piece
00:51:14
out there and what a selfish uh person
00:51:18
she was. Well she is what am I talking
00:51:19
about? And then this strange profile of
00:51:21
Lawrence Sanchez in the New York Times
00:51:23
which Katie Kirk had the best reaction
00:51:25
is were you forced to do this assignment
00:51:27
to the writer Amy Chosk. I I didn't know
00:51:29
why she she was telling me how happy she
00:51:31
is which is great but I don't know what
00:51:33
it was there for. There was nothing to
00:51:35
hang it on. I guess the mech gala. I'm
00:51:37
not sure. But it was like so tonedeaf.
00:51:40
Like I'm really happy. And in our $230
00:51:42
million house in Florida, we talk do
00:51:45
gratitude to each other every morning.
00:51:47
Just more of this sort of performative
00:51:50
romance with Bezos is so icky. I just
00:51:53
find it I just didn't understand it.
00:51:54
>> Cara, do you remember that line from
00:51:56
broadcast news? It's it's one of the
00:51:57
greatest lines in movie history where
00:51:59
William Hurt says to Albert Brooks,
00:52:02
"What happens when your real life
00:52:04
exceeds your wildest dreams?" And Albert
00:52:06
Brooks turns and says, "Keep it to
00:52:08
yourself."
00:52:09
>> Keep it to yourself.
00:52:10
>> My dad,
00:52:12
>> I've been thinking, you know, I I love
00:52:14
this statement and I use it as a one of
00:52:16
the definitions of masculinity. Are you
00:52:18
optimizing for attention or service?
00:52:20
>> Mhm.
00:52:21
>> And Lawrence Sanchez, from everything
00:52:22
I've heard, is a really nice woman.
00:52:25
People who know her say wonderful things
00:52:27
about her. You have an amazing life.
00:52:30
Keep it to your [ __ ] self. Talking
00:52:33
about your amazing life in virtue
00:52:35
signaling. I It's like I have a buddy
00:52:37
who is so successful, such a good
00:52:39
friend, such a good citizen, and he's a
00:52:42
[ __ ] disaster when it comes to his
00:52:44
relationships. And I said to him, I
00:52:45
said, "Don't you have any really good
00:52:48
friends that can tell you what they
00:52:50
think of what you're doing? Who saves
00:52:52
you from yourself?"
00:52:54
>> Nobody here. She's got the money if she
00:52:56
and this is the same thing with Lauren.
00:52:58
It's like
00:52:59
>> don't you have any friends to say to
00:53:00
you, go girl, have an amazing life. Do
00:53:03
good things with your money.
00:53:05
>> Be take care of your parents. Take care
00:53:06
of your community. Give money away. You
00:53:09
don't need articles in the New York
00:53:10
Times talking about what a spiritual
00:53:13
wonderful person you are and how
00:53:14
wonderful your relationship is. There's
00:53:16
no way. It's just going to make you look
00:53:18
like an [ __ ] Like, don't that's my
00:53:20
question, Carrot. Don't these people
00:53:22
have friends? Especially as the ex-wife
00:53:24
of Jeff Bezos just gave $70 million to
00:53:26
Meals on Wheels and never said a word
00:53:28
about herself. I mean,
00:53:29
>> about the mugs they have or hunk or
00:53:32
>> honk.
00:53:35
>> She needs friends.
00:53:37
>> I Well, she has friends. She has the
00:53:38
wrong friends. Lauren, call us up. We'll
00:53:40
help you. We'll bring you back down to
00:53:42
earth. But I don't think she cares. I
00:53:43
think she she could do so much good and
00:53:46
instead she's I just don't know.
00:53:48
>> It's something I I struggle with. My dad
00:53:50
told me just be I I started to get some
00:53:52
success before he passed away. And the
00:53:55
last thing he said to me that really
00:53:56
stuck with me was he said, "The key to
00:53:58
happiness in America is to be rich and
00:54:02
anonymous." And he said to me, he said,
00:54:04
he said, "Son, I'm worried." Uh, he
00:54:07
goes, "I'm really happy that you've
00:54:08
achieved your the former. I'm worried
00:54:10
about the latter."
00:54:11
>> Oh, smart.
00:54:13
>> You don't appreciate the value of
00:54:14
anonymity.
00:54:15
>> Well, too bad. Too late. Um, but I if
00:54:18
you ever do an interview about us
00:54:19
cuddling and doing gratitude, I'll
00:54:21
[ __ ] kill you.
00:54:21
>> I gave her a mug.
00:54:23
>> Okay.
00:54:23
>> I gave her a mug that said that said you
00:54:26
look like Rachel Matt's accountant.
00:54:30
>> I gave you
00:54:30
>> Rachel Matto mechanic. That's That's
00:54:32
your fashion.
00:54:33
>> We'll see you next Tuesday. Mug.
00:54:35
>> Uh, my win on the other hand, we
00:54:37
adorable.
00:54:38
>> I know. We're adorable. Aren't
00:54:39
>> we adorbs?
00:54:40
>> Adorbs. Um, my win is another outspoken
00:54:43
woman hacks is final season. I saw the
00:54:46
first episode. So good. Jean Smart,
00:54:49
Hannah Ein Bender, the whole freaking
00:54:51
cast. It's about a woman who talks out
00:54:53
loud and is so wonderful. I just love
00:54:56
it. Love it. Love it. And I just I
00:54:58
recommend everybody watch this last
00:54:59
season. The the whole team there is
00:55:01
spectacular. There's not they and they
00:55:03
all share in the wonderfulness and I
00:55:06
have to say it's very sweet. It's about
00:55:08
a family. It's about Anyway, Jean Smart
00:55:10
is really a woman I'd like to have keep
00:55:13
talking. And by the way, her speech in
00:55:15
last season was so precient about
00:55:17
companies trying to quiet uh uh uh
00:55:20
performers and comedians and stuff like
00:55:21
that. So, I thought that was amazing.
00:55:23
So, please watch it. It's worth it. It's
00:55:24
on HBO Max. Um
00:55:26
>> my favorite one of my favorite lines.
00:55:28
They're going to name a street after
00:55:29
you. It'll probably be a dead end with
00:55:30
an abortion clinic on it.
00:55:33
>> Just beautiful writing. Um anyway, those
00:55:36
those are the kind of things I I think
00:55:38
you should pay attention because it'll
00:55:39
make you laugh out loud. We want to hear
00:55:41
from you. Send us your questions about
00:55:42
business, tech, or whatever's on your
00:55:43
mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot
00:55:45
to submit a question for the show or
00:55:47
call 85551 pivot. And elsewhere in the
00:55:49
Karen Scott universe. This week on on, I
00:55:51
talked uh more about my CNN series,
00:55:53
Caris Wisher Wants to Live forever on
00:55:55
the topic of longevity. I talked to a
00:55:57
panel of experts, including journalist
00:55:58
Katie Kirk. She talked about why people
00:56:00
seem more inclined to trust dubious
00:56:02
wellness claims than doctors. Obviously,
00:56:04
Katie was really well known for being
00:56:05
one of the first people to call
00:56:06
attention to colon cancer. She had a her
00:56:08
husband died of this and she had a
00:56:10
colonosby on on camera. Speaking of
00:56:12
power broadcast news back then, it was
00:56:14
really important to bringing down uh
00:56:16
cancer rates. Really amazing thing she
00:56:18
did and continues to do. Let's listen to
00:56:20
a clip. People want answers and honestly
00:56:24
they they often don't like the answers
00:56:26
that they get. You know, they want to
00:56:28
believe they you know, my joints hurt. I
00:56:31
want to believe that collagen is going
00:56:33
to make me less achy when I get up in
00:56:35
the morning. I want to believe that I'm
00:56:37
going to be more flexible with collagen,
00:56:40
you know, and so I think that that that
00:56:43
people, you know, are grasping for ways
00:56:47
to feel better and I think there is a
00:56:49
lot of suffering out there. Really smart
00:56:52
voice on all this. Okay, that's the
00:56:54
show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and
00:56:55
be sure to like and subscribe to our
00:56:56
YouTube channel. We'll be back on
00:56:58
Friday.

Badges

This episode stands out for the following:

  • 60
    Most shocking

Episode Highlights

  • Trump's AI Jesus
    Trump posted an AI-generated image of himself as Jesus, claiming he thought it was him as a doctor.
    “Oh my god, he's such a liar.”
    @ 01m 22s
    April 14, 2026
  • The Pope and Trump
    Trump lashes out at the Pope, calling him weak and terrible on foreign policy.
    “I do not see any upside.”
    @ 03m 03s
    April 14, 2026
  • Hungary's Political Shift
    Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orban is ousted after 16 years, signaling a shift away from the far right.
    “This was really a wonderful moment for the West.”
    @ 17m 51s
    April 14, 2026
  • Eric Swallwell Resigns Amid Allegations
    Representative Eric Swallwell resigns from Congress and suspends his campaign for governor amid serious allegations.
    “I’m deeply sorry for mistakes in judgment I’ve made in my past.”
    @ 21m 22s
    April 14, 2026
  • Sam Alman's Home Targeted
    Sam Alman faced two violent attacks on his home, raising concerns about public sentiment towards tech leaders.
    “Nearly a third of young adults say AI makes them angry.”
    @ 34m 14s
    April 14, 2026
  • The Need for Regulation
    The discussion highlights the lack of regulation on tech executives and their influence.
    “There's absolutely no regulation on these individuals.”
    @ 36m 45s
    April 14, 2026
  • Hollywood's Concerns Over Paramount's Acquisition
    Over a thousand Hollywood heavyweights oppose Paramount's acquisition of Warner Brothers Discovery, fearing harm to the industry.
    “This is going to be the most destructive force of human capital in the creative community we've ever seen.”
    @ 42m 19s
    April 14, 2026
  • Victor Orban's Concession
    Victor Orban, a controversial leader, conceded an election, showing fidelity to democracy.
    “If a fascist who ruled for 16 years can concede an election, so can we.”
    @ 48m 24s
    April 14, 2026
  • The Importance of Anonymity
    A father shares wisdom about success and the value of staying anonymous.
    “The key to happiness in America is to be rich and anonymous.”
    @ 53m 58s
    April 14, 2026
  • Jean Smart's Impactful Performance
    A recommendation for the final season of a show featuring Jean Smart, highlighting its themes.
    “It's about a woman who talks out loud and is so wonderful.”
    @ 54m 56s
    April 14, 2026

Episode Quotes

  • It was just demented. It was demented.
    How Trump’s Fight With the Pope Backfired | Pivot
  • This was really a wonderful moment for the West.
    How Trump’s Fight With the Pope Backfired | Pivot
  • We need structural reform or this will continue to happen.
    How Trump’s Fight With the Pope Backfired | Pivot
  • He deserves to live in peace and safety.
    How Trump’s Fight With the Pope Backfired | Pivot
  • The anger needs to be funneled towards the ballot booth.
    How Trump’s Fight With the Pope Backfired | Pivot
  • Keep it to yourself.
    How Trump’s Fight With the Pope Backfired | Pivot

Key Moments

  • Beach Walks00:34
  • Iran Blockade06:30
  • Political Fallout21:31
  • Violence Against Tech Leaders35:01
  • Ballot Booth Anger40:06
  • Hollywood Opposition41:03
  • Keep It to Yourself52:08
  • Show Recommendation54:56

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown

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