00:00:00
Look at me. Look at me. >> Look at me, too. >> I'm a normal [ __ ] guy. I can't
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believe I thought I was a Ludy tune. I'm in the bell curve of normal male nuttiness.
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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Carara Swisser. Scott is
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off today and I'm joined by the man who may or may not be running for president.
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It's Anthony Scaramucci, the mooch, lawyer, podcaster, and founder of Skybridge Capital. Hello, Anthony. How
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you doing? >> All right, I'll stipulate right here on this show. You're my running mate. We're
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going to go for it, Carrie. You and me the day after April Fools. >> I'm your running mate. Let's flip that.
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Strike that. Flip it. >> Okay. You want to be the president? Okay, great. I'll be your running mate.
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Okay. I'll grow a beard like JD Vance. Okay. >> Yeah. Oh, please don't.
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>> Emphasis on the word beard. Okay. What are we talking about today? >> All right, we're talking about Anthony.
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There is so much going on. I just don't even know. Explain people. You You put
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up an a fake uh April Fool's thing about running for president. Correct. And what
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was >> I thought it was I thought it was fun. I mean, the reaction was sort of crazy
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actually, but I I thought >> I know. I thought it was real for a second. Like why not given the craziness
00:01:15
of this world? >> Well, I mean the truth of the matter is we could be doing better than we are
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doing right now. That's my honest opinion. But I I I I've never felt that
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political calling. But >> my my uh my staff made up that mooch 2028 hat. >> Yeah.
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>> And they said, "Let's put this out for April Fools." I said, "Okay." You know,
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I I'm not going to play the jokes, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. It was >> Last year, I wrote that Elon Musk had
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given me a job at Doge. A lot of people thought that was true, you know. I don't
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know. People I mean, >> I don't engage in April Fools. It's odd. I don't I get tricked by them a lot. But
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I I I like it. I appreci I I believed it for a second, honestly. I was like, "What?" And I sent it to the staff. I
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was like, "Is he running?" I mean, again, you never know. >> Let me stipulate. I'm not running. I'm
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running for reelection in my marriage and and and knows my wife. >> How's the polling going? The
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>> going I could be termlimited. That's the one problem with my marriage. I'm
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worried about that. >> That's true. Your wife is >> running for re-election in my marriage.
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My wife has a political platform of castration. So, I will not be running for president. But anyway, it was a good
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April Fool's joke. >> Okay, Anthony, let's get to the news. Donald Trump says uh the war in Iran is
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nearing completion, but the US will hit Iran extremely hard over the next two to
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three weeks, bombing the country back to the stone ages, which is just a lovely term. Uh a 19-minute address to the
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nation on Wednesday night, Trump tried to justify the war, but didn't offer anything new. It was rambling. It was
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problematic. I think he didn't he made he lied a lot. He also downplayed concerns about economic fallout, calling
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the spike in the gas price a short-term increase and saying the straight of hormuz would open up naturally after the
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war. He said the same thing about co it would end naturally, which it really didn't. He didn't say anything about
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putting um uh troops there or following through on threats to leave NATO. He talks about it but then doesn't do it.
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Talk about the speech because I thought it really was a big flat zero like a it really was flat and nobody was paying
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attention to it in a weird way. Although the markets certainly were. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, the speech is about
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power. Okay. So, CBS News, still in Trump's mind, the Tiffany Network, said,
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"Hey, no problem. Our reality show that's been on the air for 25 years,
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Survivor, we're going to interrupt the programming to bring you this speech."
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So, it's not just going to be a cable news speech. It' be a network speech.
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Trump's like, "Hey, definitely doing that." And so, that shows you a little
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bit of the corruption of the media. Uh, I think he has decapitated The reason why your show is doing so well is that
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he's decapitated corporate media. He's got them chilled. He's got their lawyers
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triple-checking everything they say. And so Trump's looking at saying, "Hey, I'm
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going to get attention and uh people on me. I'm going with the speech, even if
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it's a speech about nothing." But to your point, the market said, "Oh, whoa.
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We're likely going to have ground troops in there. we're likely going to have a
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really tough time and a result of which it was full risk off after the speech. So, and and you know, and people are
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saying to me, they always say, "Oh, Trump cares about the market. Trump cares about the market." Trump doesn't
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care about the market. Trump cares about manipulating the market. Trump cares about making money from the market for
00:04:23
himself and the people around him. He doesn't care about your portfolio or your market. He doesn't even care about
00:04:29
the polls anymore because he's not running for reelection. And so guys, get off of those notions of firstterm Trump
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caring about the market and the poll numbers. He has worse poll numbers than Jimmy Carter did at the peak of the oil
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crisis >> in 1978, 1979. That poll numbers are terrible. He doesn't care.
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>> Doesn't care. So what how did you what what was the reason for the speech? What
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what is he doing? Why is he making such efforts if he doesn't care? >> The the the the the reason for the
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speech and as an American >> a weak speech. I think we'd agree. >> Yeah. But but there was something he
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said in the speech that people should be listening to. And as an American citizen
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that's still exercising my first amendment right, I denounce it as an American citizen. He said he's going to
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bomb Iran into the stone age. >> Right. >> Okay. That was the reason for the
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speech. And let me explain why that was important. >> That was important because I'm putting
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the ground troops in. I have a 12year-old's mentality. Uh, and when I'm moving stuff into the region, guess
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what, guys? I'm not using that as a leverage point. I'm using the stuff. So,
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the 82nd Airborne is going in there. So are the Marines. >> 50,000 troops, right?
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>> And but by the way, uh, you know, uh, General Kaine told me that that booby
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trap Car Island and they've got all these little Vietnam like guerilla things they're going to do to our troops
00:05:51
and our troops are really set up for cold war army to army battle. So, I've got to spend the next three weeks
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blasting the living daylights out of Iran before I can get the troops in position. So, I'm going to give you the
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speech and it's going to be I'm going to bomb them back to the stone age speech.
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So, this is going to be the speech when historians look at the wreckage of Donald Trump. They're going to say,
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"What were you guys doing when you let somebody that inhumane into the White
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House?" >> And so, in preparation for this, I prepared something for you. Can I just
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go over this very quickly? Go right ahead. >> So, it is not enough for MAGA the
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following. >> We're going to release the Epstein files. Oh, wait a minute. Trump's in the
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Epstein files. We're not going to release the EPS files. We're going to bomb people to distract from them. We're
00:06:38
going to bomb a school in Iran with young kids in it, mostly women. We're going to create alligator Alcatra, which
00:06:45
is this disgusting penitentiary for immigrants in Florida that has sewage backup. And we're going to laugh about
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it while we're down there. We're going to murder people in Minneapolis. We're
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going to kidnap children and not even know where we're sending them. We're
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going to manipulate the markets. Cara, we're going to take bribes, particularly
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a big $400 million jet. And I'm going to keep the jet after I leave. I'm going to
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excoriate our allies that have been our friends for over a century. And I'm going to threaten to attack a NATO
00:07:16
country, Greenland. I'm going to [ __ ] all over Canada. And then I'm going to
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come after your first, fourth, fifth, and 14th amendment rights in the Constitution.
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And oh, by the way, every price in America is going to go up as a result of my tariffs. And I'm going to lower uh
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corporate taxes, big beautiful spending bill. And so if you're making a million
00:07:43
dollars or more, you're going to get a $7,000 benefit. And if you're making
00:07:46
$50,000 or less, I'm taking $500 of benefits away from you and this is what I'm going to do and you're going to shut
00:07:54
up and you're going to like it. MAGA, you're still going to support me 34%.
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But let me tell you what's going to kill them. >> It's the gas prices. So, it turns out
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that the red line for MAGA Carris Swisser are the gas prices because they don't want to go into the 250th uh
00:08:11
birthday of America grilling hot dogs at $8 a gallon in gas. And so, his approval
00:08:16
ratings are going into the gutter. But everything I just read, including the gutting of the Department of Justice,
00:08:24
and we could name 50 other things, hollowing out USAID, was acceptable to these >> scientists attacking lawyers, attacking
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media. >> No, no NIH grants anymore. We're not going to do any cancer research in the
00:08:37
country. >> But you said he doesn't care. Like you just said like doesn't care.
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>> Doesn't care. So why do it >> besid self self-promotion, self
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argrandisement, self-interest? >> He he he's doing it because he likes
00:08:54
putting people in pain. He's doing it because he's a miserable sob and he's
00:09:02
doing it because anybody in his path gets destroyed. You know, some people say Neilist, other
00:09:10
people say nihilist, but that is him. He's attacking Mcronone this morning. >> Oh,
00:09:15
>> Mcronone is in his field of vision today. Uh then he'll attack another
00:09:19
person. Last yesterday afternoon, he said, you know, JD Vance is out there negotiating this thing. If it works,
00:09:26
I'll take all the credit. If it doesn't, I'll give him all the blank. That is
00:09:31
Donald Trump. I have >> So, can I can I ask you is is it cognitive issues? I mean, you spent it
00:09:36
seems like that that speech last night was like s looked I hate to say it looked like my mom on a bad day at the
00:09:42
at the at the at the nursing home. >> Oh, okay. So, I'm the contrarian on this
00:09:47
cuz I've known the son of a [ __ ] for 20 years. It's slight cognitive issues, but
00:09:52
he's not in full-on dementia. He's an 80-year-old guy that's a little bit
00:09:56
forgetful. He's stooping a little bit. He's lost some posture. Maybe his spine
00:10:01
is uh a little bit weakened through old age. a whole bunch of inflam Speaking of
00:10:05
inflammation. >> Yeah, inflammation. His ankles are swollen, but he has not lost it. And
00:10:11
whether people like it or not, he has a lot of energy for an 80-year-old. He's
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moving himself around. >> Okay? And so, but what it is, what it is is hatred of self and projection of that
00:10:26
hatred onto others. And and you got to see it for what it actually is. Okay. The other the other thing is let's say
00:10:34
that I'm not saying anybody's an agent of Putin, but let's say I was an agent
00:10:38
of Putin. Okay, let's just say hypothetically I happen to be an agent of Putin and I happen to oh, I happen to
00:10:44
be the president of the United States. So, let me do the following. Let me go after the NATO allies. Let me threaten
00:10:51
to pull out of NATO. Let me to pull aid and material from Ukraine, excoriate the
00:10:56
Ukrainian president. Let me Oh, here's a good idea. let me attack Iran and then a
00:11:03
result of attacking Iran, I'm gonna lift the sanctions onions Russian oil >> and I'm gonna lift the sanctions on
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their ally Iran's oil. >> So now the Russians are going to make billions and billions of dollars off of
00:11:16
this which will help my buddy Vlad. >> Mhm. >> And uh I don't know, you tell me.
00:11:23
>> I don't know what he's doing. I I felt like I was slightly cognizant, but you
00:11:27
know, he is having a rough week in courts cuz courts are pushing back on him everywhere you look. It was like 10
00:11:32
of them yesterday. Let's go through some of his losses. A federal judge temporarily halted construction on his
00:11:37
beloved White House ballroom, saying it needs Congress's authorization, and Congress doesn't seem to be moving on
00:11:42
it. Trump's executive order cutting funding to NPR and PBS was struck down. A judge ruling it violated the First
00:11:47
Amendment. Another judge ruled that civil suit against Trump for his actions on January 6 can go forward and that the
00:11:53
presidential immunity does not apply to his speech that day. Uh talking to supporters before they marched the
00:11:58
capital. And one more a judge in Texas blocked a Trump back deal allowing churches to endorse political
00:12:02
candidates. Trump also was at the Supreme Court on Wednesday very briefly listening to arguments out whether his
00:12:08
executive order will limit to limit birthright citizenship is constitutional. The justices seemed
00:12:13
skeptical and that's being kind. his latest order restricting mail and voting
00:12:17
ahead of the 2026 election is already facing legal challenges and he's gonna
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lose. He's going to lose badly on that one. So, pick a case, any case, and do I
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mean, this is what he does. He transgresses with illegal actions and then everyone's picking up the pieces
00:12:31
and pushing back legally and he he does damage in the wake. Um, what is he's
00:12:37
going to lose on every one of these things? It seems like any does it matter or what? Well, I see I don't I don't I
00:12:44
>> The only one he cares about is the ballroom from what I can tell. >> Well, see, I actually think there's a
00:12:48
bigger thing going on here because remember Trump to a group of right-wing intellectuals is an empty vessel. Okay,
00:12:56
so they they bought call options on him on January 7, 2021. Low point for Trump right after the
00:13:04
insurrection. Everyone said he was politically dead. And so these right-wing lunatics that couldn't get
00:13:10
the time of day of a Mitt Romney or a George W. Bush, they said, "Let's team
00:13:13
up with Donald Trump. He's probably going to come back. He still has lots of
00:13:18
MAGA popularity. And if he comes back, we can take all of this intellectual nonsense that we believe and we can run
00:13:25
the card table with Trump." So let's talk about one of the cases, which is
00:13:29
the argument against birthright citizenship. So remember, everybody's looking at the case like, "Oh, he's
00:13:35
trying to repeal the 14th amendment. Blah blah blah. He's going to lose the case. Ho haha." I don't see it that way.
00:13:43
This is a maximalist position. Okay? This is a group of people to Trump's right, these intellectual imbeciles that
00:13:51
want to expand article 2 executive power and they are pushing for a maximalist position. Okay? So every fight whether
00:14:02
it's win or lose expands the boundaries of what future presidents will try. Carol and I think this is the point that
00:14:11
people need to >> even if he loses like >> even if he loses you just put on the
00:14:16
table that everything in this constitution is negotiable. >> You see what I just did? I I I went to
00:14:22
the court to intimidate them for my base. >> Didn't work. My base hates black and
00:14:29
brown people and they hate anchor babies and I'm sending my base a message that
00:14:35
I'm fighting for them. Okay, but imbecile let me just point out something. If you let's say they ruled
00:14:42
with you, you would create a situation that is ridiculous. Okay. And what is that situation? you would have children
00:14:50
born in the country >> that are actually have no citizens rights anywhere because a lot of the
00:14:57
parents >> the justices pointed that out the justice >> okay so that you would have that they
00:15:02
wouldn't be able to work legally in the country they wouldn't be entitled to
00:15:05
schooling uh this is this is a constitutional >> why do the maximist thing when the
00:15:13
minimalist thing is how they get things that's how they got to abortion they
00:15:16
slowly slowly slowly slowly ate at it. This is this is going to never be >> brought up again for 20 years, 50 years.
00:15:25
>> Cara, I got three years to push and shove you guys. Okay. Now, if I can only
00:15:30
get control of the elections, what I can then do is install another rightwinger to further weaken everything in the
00:15:38
constitution. You know, Peter Teal, he says, "I don't like the Constitution.
00:15:42
The Constitution's very, very messy. I don't like these people that I don't
00:15:47
agree with. I want the things to go my way or the highway. And so I need the orange wrecking ball. I've got three
00:15:55
years left. I got to smash into that constitution as hard as possible. And but and see and by the way, good news
00:16:03
for me. I've already weakened the Constitution in the eyes of 30 40 50% of the people.
00:16:11
>> So I got to keep going on this and see this. >> I see. So, they're going to just keep
00:16:14
trying to smash until they can't >> until they can't, even if they don't
00:16:18
win. >> But I have a question for you if you don't mind. Are >> we living, you and me?
00:16:24
>> Mhm. >> Are we living in a rogue state? >> Meaning >> Okay. Well, we're Let's go over what a
00:16:31
rogue state is. Where >> I know, but who's the rogue? Him or us? >> Uh, well, I I have to say that our
00:16:38
government is the rogue. Yes. You know, our government is the rogue. >> Parts of it. Parts of it. Are we are we
00:16:43
living in a rogue state? >> We're living in an executive that wants to take more power than ever, which is
00:16:49
something that's happens in Silicon Valley. It happens in which you're trying to apply their Silicon Valley um
00:16:57
you spoke of Teal and the others Silicon Valley management style to the government which has been growing for
00:17:03
decades and decades and decades. That's not a new fresh thing. and some used to
00:17:07
accuse Franklin Don Roosevelt of a similar thing if you were, you know, I was not alive then, but if you read
00:17:12
history, um, so I think there's always been this push for unitary executive power, it just tends to get pushed back
00:17:19
every single time. >> Let me ask a different question then. If if if a smaller nation
00:17:25
>> Mhm. >> was indiscriminately striking another nation in direct violation of law
00:17:31
>> Mhm. >> and was applying this type of violent behavior, would the
00:17:38
Americans, the old school American governments be designating that country a rogue state?
00:17:44
>> Yes. Yes, I would think so. But I think it's a rogue group of people within the
00:17:48
state because I what what I've been struck by is how um enduring some of it is, right? You're
00:17:55
seeing push back everywhere. And I know it's I think one of the things that I
00:17:59
think about a lot is it's very easy when you when you run for office, you can be
00:18:03
and I don't like to use this phrase as much, but a bombthrower, right? You can
00:18:06
make trouble everywhere. And when you're governing, you change as a governor,
00:18:12
right? To govern things. And you you aren't a bombthrower. So, this is a this
00:18:17
is a government that just never governs. It bombthrows and breaks and doesn't fix
00:18:22
just like I mean the White House ballroom is a perfect like it's it's a construction pit. They just destroy. And
00:18:29
I don't even know if that ballroom's ever going to get made. It's a it's a
00:18:31
kind of a physical manifestation of the mentality of just destroy. And once we've destroyed, we've won the we've won
00:18:39
the fight already because now we have to the rest of us pick it up. Um, but I am
00:18:44
struck by the power of the push back actually at the same time. >> Well, there there's symbolism in
00:18:50
destroying that by the way. You know, I'm here as a wrecker of everything. >> And this is the thing that the Americans
00:18:56
have to answer. The American people have to answer for the following. >> You got a system that got put in place,
00:19:03
tremendous checks and balances, tremendous processes. You had statesmen and women abide to the system, even
00:19:10
Richard Nixon. and the system made you the most prosperous country and arguably one of the most if not the most powerful
00:19:18
country in the world and you've now decided that you want to wreck that system and so so and and I understand it
00:19:26
because you and I grew up with these people so I understand it you want to wreck the system because you think the
00:19:31
system is unfair to you there's a few fat cats getting super rich and you're
00:19:36
in a full-on affordability crisis for yourself and you've gone from economically aspirating to
00:19:41
desperational. So Trump is your avatar for anger. System's not working for you.
00:19:47
Blow up the system. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. So but but that's going to re very
00:19:52
bad for people. The people that want to blow up the system, it's going to really
00:19:57
hurt them. >> Yes, it will be. I mean when I I know it sounds crazy, but when I was in college,
00:20:02
two guys ran for pre the student body presidency, right? And they had a whole they basically had a nealistic thing
00:20:08
like we just want to party. we want to spend all the money on ourselves. They and they won, right? They won. They they
00:20:14
they people were kind of sick of the, you know, the student body president types um who wanted to do good
00:20:19
government. And there is a moment where I think voters do like chaos, right? But
00:20:25
at some point they don't. They absolutely do not. And I think it does I think we'll be picking up from this guy
00:20:32
for centuries. Like it's not a century, for decades. Um, and I think it's not a
00:20:38
good thing, but it isn't necessarily a bad thing to have to be battered, right,
00:20:43
for a second, just to see what holds and what needs to be fixed. And it does allow us to reflect on who we are and
00:20:50
what we want to be. I mean, it is it's kind of interesting that we're in this
00:20:54
250 this quarter, you know, the the 250 years and it says, okay, what doesn't
00:21:00
work? What does work? What do we need to think about? And it does knock everyone
00:21:04
into a sense of what matters to them. And I don't think I think it's a painful
00:21:08
way to learn something, but I think it's a way to learn things. I do. >> All right. So, this is a big question.
00:21:16
Okay. And I and I follow you and I love your podcast and I and I read your writings.
00:21:21
>> So, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to stipulate something. I'm going to ask
00:21:24
a very big question. >> All right. So I believe that this is a very young country and we don't have the
00:21:30
cultural mores of Italy, France, Germany, you pick the country. Okay? Not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just
00:21:37
trying to explain to you what happens in our country is we go into the [ __ ] every 80 or so years. Yep, we do.
00:21:45
>> Okay. So 1776 into the [ __ ] civil war. Uh we've lost all the institutional memory
00:21:52
because 80 years is enough where the generation dies off. And then we go 80 years out from the Civil War. We're in
00:21:58
the Great Depression. >> We go into the [ __ ] again. We have to pull ourselves out of it. And then we
00:22:03
build the postw World War II society along with our allies. >> And we have this moment of great peace,
00:22:10
generally great peace and prosperity. But we're 80 years out again, Cara. And
00:22:14
so now we're going into the [ __ ] again, which >> Well, we've been in the [ __ ] but go
00:22:19
ahead. >> All right. Well, we're in the [ __ ] but but America has been always in these
00:22:23
moments to your point that you just made >> reflective, redemptive, and then it renews itself.
00:22:31
>> However, that's right. >> However, there's something going on
00:22:33
right now, and this is the car Swisser question. >> All right. >> Something going on right now. The
00:22:38
proliferation of social media, >> right? and the addiction of the social media which has created this tribalism
00:22:47
and created these stove pipes silos. >> Is this going to prevent us >> from coming out of the [ __ ] Are we
00:22:55
going to be able to have a postpartisan moment? >> I think they're finished these cases
00:23:00
that are starting to build up. I think people are it takes you know as you know cigarettes 20 years
00:23:06
>> this is Philip Morrison then >> this is Philip Morris again and everybody is like just a [ __ ] second
00:23:11
and I think I know it sounds crazy but I have so many people now coming up to me
00:23:15
after I wrote Burnbook which at the time people are like oh you're so mean to
00:23:18
them they're such important innovators people come to me now and they're like
00:23:21
you weren't mean enough you weren't mean enough like you weren't tough enough on
00:23:24
them and I think people are suddenly taking control of themselves whether it's social media I think young people
00:23:32
are I've my sons I see that's an anecdotal thing but I see people pushing
00:23:37
back across the globe against the tech and I think the fact that the technologist put theirs in with Trump
00:23:44
was the final moment of oh they are the villains like the Marvel villains and I think I I really do think there's a very
00:23:52
healthy push back happening and I don't think I I I feel positive for the first
00:23:58
time that people understand >> very optimistic I hope so. It's very optimistic. I'm
00:24:02
going to say something does not reflect. >> You're going to be opposite. All right,
00:24:04
we have to move on to Christine Nome's husband's boo. 30 seconds. I'm going to
00:24:08
say something very does not reflect well on me or Deardra. >> I let the kids have the iPad
00:24:14
>> and it was ruining their personalities and I let them have it for too long.
00:24:18
>> I've taken the iPad away from them and the phones and all that other stuff.
00:24:22
I've got my children back. >> They have been desified by that process.
00:24:28
Okay. So, a shout out to Jonathan Hayes. Is that how you say his name? Jonathan.
00:24:32
>> And a shout out to Caris Swisser for putting out the surgeon general's
00:24:37
warning label before the surgeon general did that these stupid products give your
00:24:43
kids brains lung cancer. I know it's a mixed metaphor, but >> I'll tell you one one of the themes in
00:24:48
this series I did, the car sleep is about chat the danger of chat bots with kids. You know, I've been talking to the
00:24:54
parents and and doing interviews with them. I think the the the the most dangerous thing right now is
00:25:00
relationships with AI bots and the sycopantic relationships. And I'll tell you that I'll do a pl a plot spoiler
00:25:07
this entire series. Guess what the number one indicator of longevity is? You'll know.
00:25:12
>> Money, right? Or no? >> Money. Money. Of course. Yes. Don't be
00:25:15
poor. But what's the actual number one? >> Genetics. >> No. Not sleep. Not diet. Not exercise.
00:25:23
>> Stress. >> Friends and family. >> Friends and family. Ah, that makes
00:25:26
sense. That makes sense. Community, not just people, you know, but walking to a coffee shop and saying, "Hey, how's your
00:25:32
day going?" I do that now all the time. People, you know, they look down and you
00:25:36
go, "Hey, how's your day going?" They go like this. >> Mhm. >> Like you can see them go, "Oh, I'm
00:25:42
okay." And I go, "Are you sure? Is everything good? >> Let me give it."
00:25:44
>> It's It's amazing. If you talk to people you don't know and you have friends and
00:25:48
family around you, you live longer, you're happier, you're healthier, it's
00:25:51
less costly. It's and and it's s and it's not it's not um correlation, it's
00:25:57
causation. It's abs and and the more time you spend with bots and online, the
00:26:01
sicker you're going to be. >> Cara, I'm I'm loving you more every
00:26:04
every day. Can I put out a public social message to billionaire dickweeds? Can I
00:26:09
just have a public social message? Hey, hey, hey, billionaire dickweeds, are you
00:26:14
out there? Listen to me, okay? No more asymmetrical relationships, okay? If you don't call me, guess what? I'm not
00:26:21
[ __ ] calling you. You're not that important. Okay? You have to take a crap
00:26:25
every day. You have to go to the bathroom. You're really not that important. So, you know what? I want to
00:26:30
live a long time. So, I'm going to have symmetrical relationships and bilateral
00:26:36
relationships with people. If you think you're too [ __ ] important to call me
00:26:39
back. >> Yeah. >> You're never getting another call from me. >> Okay. All right. Let's go to the next.
00:26:44
Speaking of this, >> we're going to Christine because I brought props.
00:26:47
All right. All right. Never mind. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back,
00:26:50
SpaceX officially files for an IPO. >> Support for the show comes from Back
00:26:55
Market. Listen, there's a lot of ads out there telling you to buy new products.
00:26:59
I've actually found that buying a new car makes no sense. I've owned cars my
00:27:03
whole life, raised in California, and I've bought a bunch of new cars and a bunch of used cars and I think that
00:27:09
quite frankly, used is the way to go. And it's the same with tech products, but Back Market is giving you the option
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fastest growing waist stream in the world and it's an issue that BackMarket wants to actively address through
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initiatives including their Earth Month campaign. Shop now at backmarket.com. >> Anthony, we're back with more news.
00:28:06
SpaceX has confidentially fi I don't know confidentially everyone knows about
00:28:09
it filed for an IPO. The filing puts the company in track for a June listing ahead of other upcoming massive IPOs
00:28:15
from OpenAI and Anthropic. There's a lot of them coming this year. Uh SpaceX will
00:28:19
reportedly seek a valuation of 1.75 trillion. It's not making that much money. Company will reportedly allocate
00:28:26
as much as 30% of the offerings to small investors. That's nice. Um uh it's
00:28:30
really I'm going to go through a whole bunch of market things but that's it.
00:28:33
They I think it's $15 billion in revenue. the the numbers are really crazy for this. It's highly overvalued.
00:28:39
At the same time, people will probably run into it. Um, a couple things. Oracle stock has been fluctuating after laying
00:28:44
off thousands of employees. Microsoft dropped almost a quarter of its value in the first three months of the year.
00:28:49
Worst quarter. Open AAI is beginning to let individual investors access the stock months before its planned IPO. Um,
00:28:55
lots of companies gotten hit. Palunteer's gotten hit. It's really kind of an up and down thing. talk a little
00:29:00
bit about the SpaceX IPO and and where the markets are from your perspective and and of course if you'd like Bitcoin,
00:29:06
tell us where what's happening there since you're Mr. Bitcoin. >> All right. Well, I mean I mean let's
00:29:10
start with SpaceX. I mean listen the cult of personality around Elon Musk is such where he gets an excessive
00:29:21
exogenous premium for his companies. They they are off of the scale of >> even if they're suffering like Tesla.
00:29:29
>> Even if they're suffering like Tesla, they get enormous metrical valuation
00:29:35
numbers. Okay, you're talking about a $1.65 trillion >> 675 trillion valuation. He's going to
00:29:44
raise apparently $75 billion. So that would crush the Saudi Arampo IPO record. Okay. It's two to three times larger
00:29:53
than any IPO ever. Okay. And he does have a good product with Starlink. We have to we have to tell people
00:30:01
>> same thing with this >> is good. But we don't know the revenue
00:30:05
splits yet between Starlink, >> the launching business, the defense business. We don't know the breakout of
00:30:12
the profitability. Okay. Okay. And we also don't know the capex burn because
00:30:16
it it would feel like the Starship stuff is a blast furnace, if you will, a blast
00:30:22
furnace of uh capex. Okay. Now, having said that, I want to disclose this to people. I do own SpaceX. I have
00:30:29
participated in one of the private rounds of SpaceX. >> Why did you do that? Because you thought
00:30:34
they they were far and away the biggest provider. >> I I I did that because I see this
00:30:40
Starlink being worth a fortune for him. And I see this idea, and I'm not saying
00:30:46
it'll happen, and this is why it's venture capital in my portfolio, but I
00:30:50
see the notion that creating interstellar or orbital data centers, uh, where you're getting the energy from
00:30:58
the sun and not from the electricity grid and you're beaming it back down to
00:31:02
Earth using satellite technology. I think that's near near science fiction. I think that become science fact and I
00:31:10
think he's well positioned to do it. I also think that he's merged Grock into
00:31:16
this and I think Grock on its own which I again full disclosure I was an investor in XAI I mean I think you know
00:31:24
this Antonio Gracias and I worked together at at Goldman uh obviously I would have been smarter to invest
00:31:30
earlier but he's been helpful in getting me access to these investments and for
00:31:34
me in my venture portfolio that side of my portfolio I think this guy has done a
00:31:40
very good job of executing ing uh and the valuations may be high but what I've
00:31:46
learned in life and you and I are for I'm 40 years as an investor uh I missed
00:31:51
out on a few things early like Amazon because I was reading Warren Buffett's
00:31:56
annual reports and the valuation for Amazon was too high but ultimately the guys that bought Amazon were right. I
00:32:02
missed it. Uh and it was a big miss for me. you know, a $10,000 investment in Amazon on the May 15th, 1997 IPO is
00:32:10
worth almost $20 million today, right? And so I want to have a few things, >> although it could have been touchandgo.
00:32:15
There was a point where Amazon >> and we could be five years from now, if you're kind enough to invite me back on,
00:32:20
we could be saying that was a big miss for SpaceX. That was a big miss. But again, what I would tell investors is
00:32:26
you got to have a little bit of your portfolio in the dream because it is America and
00:32:32
we have to believe in that dream. Now I have most of my portfolio in stocks and bonds and I have most of my portfolio in
00:32:39
the garden variety S&P 500 some Berkshire Hathaway etc. But I do I do own this stuff but
00:32:45
>> would you would you buy open AI in comparatively now they're in a much more
00:32:50
competitive position now yeah with Anthropic and others or or would you buy anthropic? So I own both
00:32:56
>> and uh you know I had this nightmare situation with Sam Bankman Freed which
00:33:00
I've well documented and talked about but one of the things he did for me >> he bought Anthropic
00:33:05
>> he brought anth he told me to buy Anthropica and I bought Anthropic very
00:33:09
early >> and let me tell you how this works in life. Anthropic is up 140 to1 from where
00:33:16
I bought it in terms of its current private market valuation. So anthropic is a larger percentage of my net worth
00:33:25
than certain legacy assets that I have. Cara and so this is another reason why I
00:33:30
always tell people you it's okay and by the way you don't have time in the day
00:33:34
for all my zeros and all my stupid decisions and stuff. You know I had Travis Kalanick is that he said I had
00:33:41
him in my office $50 million valuation for Uber. I said, "Wait a minute. An
00:33:45
unknown guy in an unknown black car is going to drive my 16-year-old daughter around Manhattan. Get out of my office.
00:33:52
>> Get out of Get out of here." >> And I and I missed it. Right. So, I'm I
00:33:55
I I'm I can give you all my losses as well, >> right? >> But but you got to me
00:34:01
>> I believe that you have to have some of these in. So, Open AI has its challenges. Obviously, he's fighting it
00:34:08
out with Elon and all the different things that we could describe, but I think he's got lots of market share and
00:34:14
I think he's going to grow his market share and right and by the way, I think
00:34:16
Claude is going to win Anthrop is going to win his case against the government, Trump's going to lose that case, too,
00:34:21
>> right? So, when you look around, you're like, look, take these risks and as long
00:34:24
as it's like it's not a a situation where it's not a real business, right?
00:34:28
And in this case, um, Starlink is a real business. The rocket business is a real
00:34:33
business. is a much smaller business than ever than the valuation by far. Especially when you you you zero out it
00:34:41
against a Facebook like it's it's worth more than Facebook and Facebook has a
00:34:45
talk about a real real business that's like a significant and ongoing business
00:34:49
and the threats Scott feels like there's a real moat that they have. I never
00:34:53
think there's any moes ever especially when you look at Tesla how quickly when
00:34:57
a couple years ago I was like Tesla's going to get killed by China and competitors and everyone's like no
00:35:02
Tesla's the winner. I'm like, there's no way they're keeping a 70% market share.
00:35:06
It's not happening. And of course, it's gone down and down and he lost interest
00:35:09
in it. And instead of putting out really innovative cars, he put out the Cybert truck, right? And so you once I saw the
00:35:16
Cybertruck, I'm like that this thing is watch out below. But his particular, as
00:35:22
you said, uh you know, he has a lot of misses, but he has a lot of wins. And so you kind of have to go with him in that
00:35:28
regard in this particular thing. What will you be looking for specifically in >> just one thing because this is something
00:35:35
we have to accept and that's called memeification. >> And so we have to accept that there's a
00:35:42
prolific number of bewarming retail investors, Wall Street bet like investors that are with Elon and that there's a
00:35:53
personality cult around Elon that is affecting valuation. And by the way, they are way sturdier than any of my
00:36:03
shortselling buddies >> thought. And they've knocked out a lot of my short selling buddies.
00:36:11
>> So I would just tell people, listen, I'm a I'm a market realist, okay? I'm not a
00:36:16
market purist, >> okay? I Yes, I've read Buffett and Buffett is the papay uh edict giver of
00:36:24
value. You know, we're gonna get to Bitcoin, but Buffett thinks Bitcoin's
00:36:26
rat poison or rat poison squared and all this other stuff. But the the point I'm
00:36:31
making is that I'm a market realist, not a market idealist. And this man, Elon
00:36:37
Musk, has a memeification in bed in him. It may not last forever, but there's a memeification in bed in
00:36:45
there. And that I am not too proud or too idealist to take advantage of it. Okay, that's all. You know, it was
00:36:53
interesting. I one time I called Berkshire H because he had never made an internet investment. This was a decade
00:36:58
ago or more, more than that. It was more than that. And I called up to ask him. I
00:37:02
wanted I was doing a was the Wall Street Journal, so it was a long time ago. And
00:37:06
I I called up and I said, "I'd like, you know, I thought I was going to get a PR
00:37:09
person." And the phone rings through and it's him. And I was like, "Oh, hi, hi
00:37:14
there, Warren Buffett." And he's like, "I just don't believe in this internet
00:37:17
thing." And I was like, "I think you're wrong. I can't believe I'm giving you
00:37:20
advice, sir." Um but he was very much against internet investments and he he
00:37:24
admitted he was wrong about it much later like that he was wrong about all of them and there is some value in
00:37:30
understanding it's going to take a while for people to catch up to Musk in this
00:37:34
area but as I always say they will catch up because it's a great market right as
00:37:38
you say if we have these data centers in space if you think he's going to be the
00:37:42
only one running the show you're absolutely wrong people will r greedy people will rush into the business
00:37:48
whether it's Amazon with Kyper or whatever. Um, it's it's going to be a
00:37:53
lot of people, but it'll take his attention, which he it fell away from because I think he he got redpilled in
00:38:01
many ways. Um, it'll if if his attention waines, it's in trouble. If it doesn't,
00:38:08
it's hard to compete with him and his meme vacation, as you talk about. I think you're right.
00:38:13
>> Portfolio approach. I own a lot of them and and some of them will work, some of
00:38:17
them won't. But my lesson from 30 years ago is I wasn't bold enough. And and and
00:38:23
again I'm talking about 5% 7% of the capital, >> but not the whole thing.
00:38:27
>> Yeah, that's all >> right. What very briefly, Bitcoin? We got to get to their stories.
00:38:32
>> Uh after Bitcoin is in a significant bare market. Uh Bitcoin uh Bitcoin got
00:38:38
hurt by Trump. Uh, I know the Trump lovers and the Trump crypto lovers don't
00:38:42
like me saying this, but I said when those meme coins came out, Trump and Melania memecoins, he's going to crush
00:38:49
us. He's going to hurt us because he hurts everything that he touches. And so
00:38:52
what ended up happening is the regulation that should have been passed uh didn't get passed because of the
00:38:58
hatred of Trump. And so so a result of which we're in a typical Bitcoin bare
00:39:03
market. So it's 66,000 almost >> 66,000 but it's been pretty sturdy
00:39:08
during the Iranian war. >> And I I would >> but it hasn't rushed upwards which one
00:39:12
would >> but I would say to Bitcoin enthusiasts this is a typical four-year cycle having
00:39:18
cycle situation this point in the cycle Bitcoin loses roughly half of its value.
00:39:23
It did. I'll make a prediction on your show. I've been humbled by markets
00:39:28
probably could be wrong. I think the $60,000 bottom is in for Bitcoin and I think that Bitcoin starts to rally in
00:39:35
the fourth quarter, which would be consistent with the 4-year cycle of Bitcoin. So, even though you've got more
00:39:44
buyers in Bitcoin, you were offset by whale selling in the last 12 months. And guess what? You got the typical
00:39:53
four-year cycle of Bitcoin. And since I'm a long-term holder, I'm okay with
00:39:58
that. I mean, you're right. Trump came in and made a mess of it by by all the
00:40:02
shitcoins, all the all the scams, and so it it linked to Bitcoin quite >> and he sucked so much money, political
00:40:09
donations into his coffers from guys that thought Trump was going to help him. He doesn't help people.
00:40:14
>> He doesn't help people. >> He doesn't like people because they
00:40:16
don't like the trough. We are in the trough of Bitcoin. All right, I'm going
00:40:20
to keep that prediction. We'll find out. Um, all right, Anthony, we're going to a
00:40:22
quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about those photos of Christine Gnome's husband. Support for this
00:40:28
podcast and the following message is brought to you by Erade from Morgan Stanley. Now that Erade is part of
00:40:34
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00:41:11
Anthony, we're back and Scott is going to be very sad he's missing this one.
00:41:15
Christine Gnome is quote devastated and blindsided by the allegations that her husband is it Brian's activities in
00:41:22
online fetish communities. Earlier this week, the Daily Mail published an investigation into Gnome's husband,
00:41:27
which included a photo of him wearing pink hot pants and fake breasts with nipples. Uh, the story also alleges he
00:41:33
spent at least $25,000 communicating with WIMO of women in the bimboication scene. I didn't know about this, but
00:41:39
fascinating, which fetishes people with surgical enhancements. Republicans are party family values. These this couple
00:41:46
was particularly performative. I I don't know what to say here. I I just don't
00:41:51
know. >> I'm in hot water with my mother-in-law because last night when I came home, I
00:41:54
said, "Ma, were you in one of those chat rooms?" She got pissed. Oh, no. Was bad,
00:41:58
right? But look at me because I know Scott Galloway isn't here. >> I got a picture.
00:42:02
>> But I brought pops. See? Pops. See? >> What is that? Is that them?
00:42:06
>> Those are boobies. They're actually dodge balls that my kids play with. But
00:42:10
you could put the boobies on. Do you want me to send you them? >> No, I don't.
00:42:12
>> Do you want to wear these later or >> No, I do not. Do not dare. Don't you
00:42:15
dare put them on. >> Okay. I'm not putting them on because I don't want to make fun of somebody. But
00:42:19
I just say I did bring >> Let me say let me say what I think. I feel sad for this guy because I think he
00:42:24
has um I I um Listen, I'm from San Francisco. If you want to marry a goat, I'm pretty okay with it. Not great with
00:42:31
it, but that's okay. >> I'm okay with it. >> Yeah. Uh I think it's it's he obviously
00:42:36
has an interest and I don't I find fetishes somewhat interesting and I think you should express yourself and
00:42:40
it's not hurting anybody, right? Is it really hurting anybody that he likes this? No. He seems he see my part is he
00:42:46
seems very sad about liking it, right? And that you know some of these actually some of the women he was he hired are
00:42:53
actually quite wise. I have to say some of these sex workers are like well he really liked it and he seemed sad and I
00:42:59
was trying to make him have fun because he seemed stressed and they're the most
00:43:03
reasonable people in this entire affair. Um so I felt bad for him that he had this furt of life and he couldn't
00:43:09
express himself. That's one. I also think he's in huge hypocrite in that all
00:43:14
this performative religious stuff when he's has a life that's more interesting
00:43:19
and more unusual and he should have that life without feeling shamed shame himself in her case. I do think uh she
00:43:27
did know about it. I suspect she did. I don't think it's any excuse for her
00:43:30
behavior with uh Cory Luwendowski. I don't I think I part of I put this stuff
00:43:36
up saying I felt sad for this guy and everyone's like don't you know that Cory
00:43:39
Luwendowski leaked this to get the focus off of them and their and what we should
00:43:44
be focusing on not this poor guy which is sad but uh for him I wish he enjoyed himself more as I said um but on their
00:43:53
on their grift right their enormous grift and what happened there and the investigations into the two of them and
00:43:59
their behaviors in there and by extension Donald Trump should continue and focus in on those two.
00:44:06
>> We've normalized corruption, which is hopefully we'll have to come back from
00:44:10
that as well. But we will. >> Here's here's three quick things I would
00:44:12
say. Number one, you're coming down from heaven and you're on the assembly line
00:44:17
and there are some fetishes like feet fetishes or eyelash fetish. I don't know
00:44:21
what the fetishes are, but then the supervisor stops the assembly line and brings out the inflatable boobies and
00:44:27
said, "Hey, we're sending you to Earth with these." Okay. I mean, that was a
00:44:31
rough one. Okay. So, I feel bad for the guy because I think you're born with
00:44:34
that maybe. Number two, >> okay, MAGA men >> are repressing a lot of stuff and you
00:44:40
know that my buddy Don Lemon tells me that the Grinder stuff lights up at all these Christian conservative things.
00:44:48
Okay, we spot Lindsey >> Graham with the magic wand down in Walt Disney World.
00:44:53
>> Yes. Just so people don't know, he was at Disney World with a little mermaid
00:44:56
bubble wand in one photo and waiting in line for Space Mountain in another. He said he was meeting with Trump and Steve
00:45:02
Whitoff and then went to Orlando to meet friends just for a quick You never go quickly to Disneyland. Um
00:45:08
>> look look look the the problem is the repression is the problem, right? Like
00:45:12
so to me >> I'm going to tell you that MAGA men are repressing a lot of stuff and then
00:45:20
they're taking it out on the rest of us, right? Like if you read The Velvet Rage
00:45:24
by Allen DS, >> okay guys, relax. Whatever it is, whatever your orientation is,
00:45:31
>> let it go. Nobody cares. Okay, we're in a totally different environment.
00:45:34
>> The fine words of Frozen. Let it go. >> I I Yeah, exactly. I think these guys
00:45:38
are >> can't hold it back anymore. >> You know, you know this, Cara. Born in
00:45:43
the >> I let it go a long time. >> Born in the 40s and 50s >> and with all of that repression. Okay.
00:45:50
And who the hell knows what Donald Trump's father did to him as a kid? The guy's a repressed sad guy, okay? He's
00:45:58
decorating the Oval Office like Liberace. He wants the ballroom. He took over the Kennedy Performing Arts Center.
00:46:06
He wants to take his pain out on us. Calm down. Let it all go. Okay? And I feel bad for this guy, but I'm telling
00:46:16
you, this type of repression, for some reason, has found its way into our politics. And then the last point, cuz I
00:46:24
had three last. >> That's a serious point. >> The last point. Look at me. Look at me.
00:46:28
>> I thought you were just going to make booby jokes, but go ahead. >> Last point. Look at me. Look at me.
00:46:31
>> Look at me, too. >> I'm a normal [ __ ] guy. I can't believe I thought I was a Ludy tune. I'm
00:46:37
in the bell curve of normal male >> nuttiness. >> I know. But let me ask you,
00:46:43
>> crazy. I I thought I was nuts until I met these [ __ ] people. >> No, you're totally boring compared to
00:46:48
most of these people. I'm living. >> What does it do to What does it do to
00:46:52
She has no political prospects now, correct? Or will she go the I didn't know I'm a
00:46:57
>> victim. They took They took the couple hundred million off the ad thing. So,
00:47:01
what did they do? They put the $200 million into the ad thing. They hired a consultant. The consultant skimmed like
00:47:07
they do with these political action committees. Let me let me tell people from Pivot, guys, never put any money in
00:47:14
a political action committee because what they do is the cronies at the top, they skim all the money and they charge
00:47:22
a 15, 20, 30% advertising consulting fee and they're laughing at you. They're
00:47:29
laughing at you. Okay. So, what Gnome and Corey did was took the money, okay, and they diverted it and they're going
00:47:36
to go live somewhere. God bless them. They got some money. Okay. >> Mhm. I don't want to make the money like
00:47:40
that. >> Well, they they'll they'll be they will have a problem. They'll have legal
00:47:44
problems forever. I would assume that she has no presidential prospects. Correct. Cuz I know that was
00:47:50
>> No, she's got she's got no presidential prospects, but she's also
00:47:55
>> Come on. You these are the people that we want running the country. Come on.
00:47:59
>> No. >> Okay. I mean, you're shooting at You're shooting at people. You're kidnapping
00:48:03
kids with ICE and you're proud of it and you're riding around on your horse. You
00:48:08
know, I did see one great meme though. You mind if I share it? You know, we had the [ __ ] marry, kill.
00:48:13
>> So, we had to marry the guy with the big boobies. We're [ __ ] Cy and we're
00:48:17
killing the dog. I thought that was really funny. Okay. All right. But anyway, sorry.
00:48:21
>> That's a good one. That's good. Uh, it's interesting though. It's It's really
00:48:26
interesting. Someone a company that I didn't think was going to do it. I'm
00:48:29
friends with Harvey Leven from TMZ, but he's been publishing photos after asking
00:48:33
people to submit pictures of lawmakers on vacation during the DHS shutdown. And I'll note, it's a bipartisan shaming
00:48:39
targeting Democrats and Republicans alike. It's part of a larger push by TMZ, which has amped up its political
00:48:44
coverage, showing what it calls the intersection of politics and pop culture. I kind of like that they're
00:48:49
doing this so you can let us see you what you're doing versus how you're
00:48:54
talking, right? >> You're exposing the hypocrisy, you know. >> Yeah. Exactly. And and here's the thing
00:48:58
I would tell you. You know, they they had thun last week bypassing the entire TSA at the uh Reagan airport. I think he
00:49:06
was in or maybe Dallasos. And guy, you're a hip hop. You know, you're hypocrite. You know, fix fix the
00:49:12
country. You know, there's a 14% approval rating for the Congress. It's just slightly above Kim El Jung. Okay.
00:49:19
But you know what? 95% of these guys get reelected because of gerrymandering and
00:49:25
Citizens United. They pick the voters. That's the only thing they're able to
00:49:30
do. Are we in a real democracy, Carara? Where the politicians pick the voters? I
00:49:34
thought the voters were supposed to pick the politicians. And they get unlimited
00:49:38
money from the corporates. And so they can stay in power. It would be like you and I opening up a restaurant. Our food
00:49:44
sucks. We got onestar Yelp ratings, but we can't ever get fired. >> Right.
00:49:50
>> Okay. It's it's it's appalling. >> Yeah, it is. And they I think they're
00:49:54
paying the price for it, though. I love that these pictures are there. I think people should do more of this exposure.
00:49:59
Like, here's how they live. Here's how they behave. I did like when Delta said,
00:50:03
"We're not going to let them jump the line if they're on Delta, you know,
00:50:07
we're not going to let them have special things." And now I think things are
00:50:10
calming down at airports. Apparently, TSA's sort of started to organize it a
00:50:14
little better, but it's still the fact that they can't pass a basic funding
00:50:17
bill um is really quite something, you know, without making everything partisan. All right, one more quick
00:50:24
break. will be back for predictions. Okay, Anthony, let's hear a prediction.
00:50:28
>> All right, so listen, you know, listen, first of all, happy Easter and happy
00:50:31
Passover to you and your family. >> And I'm gonna I'm gonna make three
00:50:35
predictions. Uh so the first prediction, Pam Bondi is long gone. >> Okay, Zeldon will replace her. Uh they
00:50:43
have gutted the Department of Justice and it's become the Trump family law firm.
00:50:48
>> And so that's actually good for these Supreme Court decisions because they got
00:50:51
nobody there to argue these stupid cases. but just very bad for the country. Number two, and I think this is
00:50:58
also uh one that I don't like, is that we're going to have ground troops in
00:51:03
Iran. And again, the bomb the people back to the stone age was to degrade them in such a way where we can put the
00:51:09
ground troops in. And then my last prediction is that the Chinese are going to be involved in a resolution of this.
00:51:17
And so what Trump is going to do, and this is the reason why he delayed the meeting with Shei. He's going to get the
00:51:23
people at the Car Island. He's going to get them in the straight. He's going to
00:51:26
shut off the oil. He's going to pick up the phone and call Shei and say, "Listen, you're getting 40 50% of your
00:51:32
oil out of here. And this is a satellite state of yours. You got to secularize that state, and you got to let me and
00:51:39
the UN or whoever go in there and take the uranium out of there. And when we're
00:51:44
doing that, when we're done doing that, I'm going to open the oil spot again and
00:51:48
you can have the oil. I understand that you got to run your economy and I want to be a cooperative economic competitor
00:51:55
of yours and I do need those rare earth minerals. But that third prediction >> is is where we're going on the chess
00:52:03
board >> because there are some smart people in the Pentagon and now that they're in
00:52:07
this thing, >> that why not take advantage? >> That's what that's where they're going.
00:52:11
So those are my three predictions. >> Might as well. But that could cause a
00:52:13
lot of deaths, American deaths, which could be >> unintended consequences. But they don't
00:52:18
care. You know, he doesn't care. You're an object in Trump's field of vision.
00:52:21
You're not a person. So, he doesn't care. >> We might as well take advantage of this
00:52:26
the situation. Let me ask you, what do you think of Lee Zelden? >> Well, Lee, I know a long time. You know,
00:52:31
Lee Lee was district one out here on Long Island. >> Yeah, he was the House of
00:52:37
Representatives guy out here. He's a conservative guy. He ran for governor here. Uh Lee is
00:52:44
>> formerly reasonable as I recall but then became crazy. >> That's where I was going. So Lee is in
00:52:50
that group of people that went into the MAGA chamber and came out with the red hat and the long tie and the cuckoo
00:52:57
laala. But he was not that way. But now he is. And so we'll have to see. Yeah.
00:53:02
We'll have to see how many piouettes he's willing to do for Donald Trump to
00:53:07
destroy his reputation, too. Because that's what you do. You go in. I want the power. I want the significance.
00:53:13
Trump moves the goalposts on you. Hey, Carara, prices are going down. No forever wars.
00:53:22
We're ending our involvement in the Middle East. Okay. Okay. Well, now are you guys loyal to me? Yes, you're loyal
00:53:28
to me. Now, we're going to do the opposite of that. We're moving the goalpost. You got to stay loyal to me.
00:53:33
And so that's Lee Zeldon is the type of kid he's going to look back on this
00:53:38
because I know how he grew up, you know, uh, and you know, he's out here on Long
00:53:42
Island with me. He's going to look back on this and say, "Wow, I really screwed
00:53:45
this up. I shouldn't have done the things that I'm doing." >> So, is there a lack of There are a lot
00:53:49
of Republicans. I just interviewed Tom Tillis. He's sort of run out of fog. There's a lot of people that to me, even
00:53:56
Marjorie Taylor Green. Do you see a push back anywhere? And and what are the implications of that? Are you seeing and
00:54:02
I'm not talking about like the goan no thoon goes down as a scarecrow. You know
00:54:07
it goes down as one of the worst of the worst. You know like when we have you and I will be dead or maybe because of
00:54:12
the red light therapy on your new show you and I will be alive but it'll be 50
00:54:16
years from now >> and the people going to look back and say what the hell happened
00:54:21
>> and John Thun is the poster boy for cowardice. Okay. Because he could have
00:54:27
called Schumer and he could have said hey we're shutting this down. Okay, we
00:54:31
are article one of the constitution for a reason and we're shutting this down.
00:54:35
You and I are going to the White House today and we're going to tell this [ __ ] that he's the most unamerican
00:54:40
president that's ever lived and we're going to go in a different direction or
00:54:45
we're going to blow him out of the seat. But he didn't do that because he's got
00:54:48
no kones and he wants personal power over the serving of the public and he wants to bypass the security line.
00:54:57
Okay. And guy, you used to be a good guy. I knew you a long time when I was on the Romney campaign. You were a good
00:55:03
guy, but you are now a loser. >> So, what happens? Very brief. What happens to these? Because something's
00:55:08
going to happen after November. >> They've lost in Palm Beach. They've lost
00:55:11
in Kansas. They've lost They're losing They'll lose the midterms on the House.
00:55:17
They won't lose the Senate. >> Trump Trump will go maybe they'll lose
00:55:21
the Senate, but they won't lose it enough for Trump to get impeached because they need twothirds vote.
00:55:26
>> Trump will strongarm everybody. The last two years will be about grifting and
00:55:30
making money and market manipulation because they've telling people they want
00:55:33
to be the richest family after they leave. And on the 19th of January, he will pardon himself and his family
00:55:41
members and the people that are close to him. And he'll drop that in the lap of
00:55:46
the Supreme Court and the Congress is whether or not a president can pardon themselves. and he will leave an unbuilt
00:55:53
ballroom and a complete catastrophic [ __ ] storm for whoever the cleanup crew is going to be. And uh and by the way,
00:56:01
as people have said, in a democracy, you sometimes get the people that you deserve. And we'll have to look at
00:56:08
ourselves and say, how did we let that happen? And this is the point of the book that I'm writing which you've been
00:56:13
nice enough to read for me is that we let this happen through bad decisionmaking but we left out the
00:56:20
people Carara that you and I grew up with who once felt unbelievable about the American dream and unbelievable
00:56:28
about the my father was making money by the hour. He was a union guy but he was like you know what my kids are going to
00:56:35
live the American dream. Let's get to work. Now those people are like, "Hey
00:56:39
man, I can't get a job." And by the way, my kids are not going to get a job. [ __ ]
00:56:44
you people. Burn it down. And we've got to go. You talk about burn book. How
00:56:48
about burn the whole thing? Burn the social contract. >> So it's burnt. So now
00:56:53
>> So now we got to get some people in there that are postpartisan transformational leaders that going to
00:56:59
want to restate a vision for the country. Like I said, we go through this every 83 years. We're in our 250th year
00:57:06
anniversary. Here are the things that we need to do to redeem ourselves. We have
00:57:11
to clean up these certain things that have happened. We have to take big business, big pharma, big zillionaires
00:57:17
out of the political equation. We created a separate but equal democracy with Citizens United. That's the pie
00:57:24
versus Ferguson case of our democracy. Brown Board of Education overturned that. We're 16 years out from Citizens
00:57:32
United. We have to overturn it and we got to put these rich people back in a box where they belong where one vote
00:57:38
equals one vote. >> I'm gonna ask one final question. Who are pick two people who would be someone
00:57:44
on each side? Two people you are like those people could do that right now. Or don't they? We don't know.
00:57:51
>> No, I mean listen you know you know here here's the thing, okay? Like your
00:57:55
roommate Scott >> Galloway, >> okay? He's the type of guy that could
00:58:01
actually pull it off. Honestly, I think he could pull it Cuban. Why you laugh? You don't think he could pull it? I
00:58:05
think he could actually. >> Not Scott, but Cuban. Yes. >> Okay. Okay. All right. Cuban. I mean,
00:58:09
somebody like that could probably pull it off. >> But then they have to do something that
00:58:15
is ridiculously Lincolnesque in terms of its heroism. >> You got to piss every single person off
00:58:24
in power to reframe the argument. Okay. Teddy Roosevelt got the Robert Barons in
00:58:30
place and said, "Hey, MFS, we're going to break up your trusts. We're going to
00:58:35
knock out your monopolies. I got it. These poor people, the tenementss are coming down on them and they're going to
00:58:41
come after you with a pitchfork and a torch. You want them to set fire to your mansion? Knock it off.
00:58:47
>> Knock it off." So, it requires somebody that doesn't care about the power
00:58:54
structure. And that's why I can't name somebody because everybody that's in the
00:59:00
power >> cares about the power structure. I don't give a [ __ ] about the power.
00:59:04
>> It has to be you and me. It has to be you and me. That's what's going to
00:59:07
happen. >> You can have the top job by the way. Okay. We'll give you the top job.
00:59:09
>> I don't want the top job. >> I would be so bad. I would You'll be the
00:59:13
red light therapy president. Okay. You'll be >> No way. Those things longevity
00:59:17
president. >> Don't work. Don't work. But sauna president. The sauna.
00:59:21
>> Sauna. I'm just being a sauna naked. I'll do from there. Anyway, Anthony, as
00:59:25
always, fantastic. Uh, and >> I love being on with you. Thank you for inviting me back. And tell Scott I miss
00:59:31
him and wish him a happy Easter for me. >> Listeners, we want to hear from you. Let
00:59:34
us know what you think of Anthony. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to
00:59:38
nymag.com/pivot. Submit a question for the show or call 855-51 Pivot. This is a big week for
00:59:44
both of us. We got nominated for Webbby Awards. Pivot and Onw with Carara Swisser got nominated. and your limited
00:59:49
series podcast with Scott Lost Boys also got nominated. Uh we want your vote because we're not too proud to beg. Um
00:59:58
go to the link in the episode description to vote for us. I'm very pleased for you. Uh and congratulations
01:00:04
and I I will see you next week. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to
01:00:09
Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back
01:00:12
next week. I will read us out. Today's show was produced by Larara Neon, Zoe
01:00:17
Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Anderdat engineered this episode. Manola Mareno edited the video. Nishhat Kerwa
01:00:24
is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot and anything does on your favorite podcast
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platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at
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nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and
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business. Thank you, Anthony.