00:00:00
Here's a technology that is potentially more dangerous than nuclear weapons. We
00:00:05
didn't let Oppenheimer start a company and start selling bombs to China. >> That's a good comparison.
00:00:16
>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:00:20
Network. I'm Carara Swisser >> and I'm Who am I? I'm Scott Galloway.
00:00:24
Sorry, I'm jetlagged is what I am. So, um, uh, first off, I have to ask you, by
00:00:28
the way, in you've doing a lot of stuff, but did you watch the enhanced games
00:00:31
last weekend? >> I didn't, although I got to be honest, I'm sort of here for it. I mean, I I
00:00:36
kind of had this idea to just take no holds barred and let freak shows show up. Uh, people are doing this to
00:00:42
themselves anyways, but I did not I did not watch it. Although, >> let me just say, let me for people who
00:00:46
don't know, the enhanced games is a new sports event that allows athletes on
00:00:50
performance-enhancing drugs and encourages them to try to break world records. Events included swimming, track
00:00:55
and field, weightlifting, and strongmen. The experiment calls itself a global movement that unites humanity, of
00:01:00
course, is a publicly traded company. Investors include Donald Trump and Junior and Peter Teal. There's also a
00:01:05
German executive I've met many times who's really into it. Um, there were no
00:01:10
things broken except by someone who was wearing an the swimsuit that was barred,
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this special swimsuit. I don't know. The stock has gone down. I'm curious if
00:01:20
there was a fight where both of us were enhanced, who do you think would win, you or I?
00:01:24
>> Well, you know the answer there. >> Me? >> Yeah, 100%. I've never been in a fight.
00:01:30
Yeah. I'm not I'm not a violent person. If someone hit me, I wouldn't know what
00:01:33
to do. >> You've never been in a fight? Wow. >> Never been in a fight in my life.
00:01:36
>> Neither have I, I think. Let me think. That might not be true. No, I haven't.
00:01:39
No, I haven't. >> No, never. you know, I was beaten up and abused ex-wife, but um no, I was never
00:01:48
never been in a never been in a fight. I think that I talk a lot about this that
00:01:53
I think that one of the cores to I never miss a chance to to virtue signal and preach, but I think one of the course
00:02:01
core principles of for men as they get older is just quite frankly is emotional regulation. you know, are you willing to
00:02:06
sit in discomfort and uh do you have control over your your physical and mental well-being?
00:02:13
>> Well, it's an impulse to punch, right? It's an impulse to punch and men have it
00:02:17
much more. I have Well, let me think. Saul's probably the most aggressive of
00:02:23
my sense. >> So, there's no arguing that men are more violent, but that doesn't mean women
00:02:28
don't engage in violence. domestic violence rates in LGBTQ couples um is about 25% according to the National
00:02:38
Institute for Health and according to the CDC anywhere from 17 to 40% of men are victims of intimate partner violence
00:02:46
depending depending on the research methodology there's discrepancy between whether it was a phone survey or a web
00:02:51
survey and then furthermore there's only about three shelters there's only three three
00:02:58
shelters across the entire US devoted to male domestic violence. Um there's still
00:03:03
a lot of shame and there's a view that it might be under reportported. >> Mostly women suffer from this problem,
00:03:09
Scott. >> Yeah, but it's true. There's there's there's an assumption.
00:03:13
>> Yes, I get it. Most violence is committed by men in general. In general,
00:03:18
in general, murders, blah blah everything. Every statistic is largely men. I It's not really It's just I I I
00:03:24
do think it's a function of gender. I do think it's a function of impulse control
00:03:28
and everything else, but I'm no scientist. >> Testosterone and cultural norms and
00:03:32
>> Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Manliness, this man. There was a really great cover of The
00:03:37
Atlantic recently about the sort of the man-hating groups and they're they're
00:03:41
always back. They're always like they're back. I'm like, they're always there in
00:03:44
some weird way. Um, speaking of man, men men, um, there's construction crews are
00:03:49
building the UFC fighting cage on the south lawn of the White House in preparation for the night of mixed
00:03:54
martial arts celebrating the 250th anniversary of US independence. Over 4,000 spectators plan to watch from
00:03:59
inside the arena. Kind of looks like a roller coaster. And uh, there's all this
00:04:04
complaining by Joe Rogan and others about gnats and bugs and outside. And a lot of some of the champions aren't
00:04:11
coming because it's it they don't usually do it outside. Um and it creates
00:04:17
a if you're going for world, you know, these these are actual competitors. If
00:04:20
you're going for titles, it's not it's not a good thing to fight outside
00:04:24
apparently. Um weigh-ins will be held at the Lincoln Memorial, which is I don't
00:04:29
know what to say about that, but okay, fine. Fine. Fine. I I just don't know
00:04:34
what to say. I I it looks it's ridic, you know, it's it feels clownish, but
00:04:40
whatever. He's the president. I don't I don't know what to say. I'm not going to
00:04:43
get overly angry about it, but it seems ridiculous. But I don't know how you
00:04:46
feel. >> I was invited. I said no. I don't I don't enjoy that stuff, and I don't need
00:04:50
to be, you know, I I think it's disingenuous for me to show up and break bread or or party with someone who I'm
00:04:55
constantly critical of. Uh it the event itself is brilliant. >> You think?
00:05:00
>> Oh gosh. there there's just an entire generation of of young men and and quite
00:05:05
frankly a lot of women their mothers and their sisters who in America and this will trigger some people still vote for
00:05:11
who they perceive will be most beneficial for their husbands and their sons and young men are doing really
00:05:17
really poorly and uh if you think about government in the United States largely speaking
00:05:23
has been feminized if you look at the events the events are basically like you know like the queen was merchandising
00:05:29
and throwing them for Government events are very feminine for lack of a better word.
00:05:34
>> Wait a minute. Come on, Scott. Today you're very anti-women today. I'm not
00:05:38
anti-woman. I don't think feminine is a bad thing. I'm just calling it government things are feminine.
00:05:42
>> Oh, go to anything at the White House. It feels like it feels like it's been
00:05:46
designed. Oh, 100%. They're very >> They're very proper, gentle. They're
00:05:53
very feminine. And by the way, that >> men can be gentle. I don't I don't think
00:05:57
that men can >> Yes, men can demonstrate wonderful feminine attributes. >> You mean like metal giving is is a
00:06:02
feminine activity or >> I would describe metal giving, but the the event >> a lot of metal giving at the White
00:06:08
House. >> Government events and ceremonies tend to be very what people would consider I
00:06:13
think somewhat more um well they're not a UFC fight. They're not a competition.
00:06:18
>> UFC fight is way even like comedy. The White House the White House dinner comes
00:06:23
the closest to sort of something stepping out of what is seen as overly planned, nurturing, appropriate. Yeah, I
00:06:30
think the events are very kind of very feminine. And what is what are these guys doing? They're throwing a UFC
00:06:36
fight. And it's kind of I think I you're going to have they're going to have huge
00:06:40
viewership. It says to Trump uh rein reaffirms his his view of one of the reasons he won
00:06:48
the election and that is like I'm a man's man. I see men. I appreciate quote
00:06:54
for lack of a better term masculinity. Unfortunately, it's a [ __ ] up weird
00:06:58
>> performative dominant form of masculinity, >> but it's a brilliant marketing strategy.
00:07:03
Smart. I >> I'm not I don't I think it sometimes works. Like let me give an example of
00:07:07
this attempt to turn James Telerico like the Steven Miller who is literally the most weak weaklooking person you've ever
00:07:15
seen um is uh calling you know he and others are calling because they're terrified of Telerico. So they're
00:07:21
pulling out the anti-trans stuff immediately saying the first trans senator he doesn't know how to eat
00:07:27
barbecue. Is that a to Ted Cruz? Another like someone I could easily beat in an in a fight with the tofu barbecue. Uh uh
00:07:36
the idea of soy boy. I mean I this is not manly in any way. This is like this I don't and I don't think it works as
00:07:43
much anymore with people. Um it's do it's deeply insulting. It it might work
00:07:48
in Texas. I hate to say it. I think they the Telerico people should take this very seriously because Kla Harris didn't
00:07:55
with the trans stuff that worked really well in the election and it might work in Texas, but they're trying to, you
00:08:00
know, paint him as gay. I think that's what they're where's the girlfriend?
00:08:04
That's what they're uh trans. Is she he trans? He's a soy boy. You know, this is
00:08:09
all like and what I think about it's so grotesque because I'm like these are all
00:08:14
men over 50 or whatever. I don't I mean Steven Miller looks over 50 even though
00:08:19
he's younger. Um but this is this like name calling bullying [ __ ] that is not part of being a man. Any men I know
00:08:28
that I think are decent men. It's fine if people want to do this. I when I was
00:08:32
a kid I went to fights with my grandfather and went to wrestling matches. He was a promoter. Um and he
00:08:37
loved it. Um so I see the the the entertainment and everything else in it. But the the the the the soy boy trans
00:08:46
thing that they're pushing on Telerico is so so ugly and toxic. And unfortunately, it does work at some
00:08:54
point. I don't know if you think it'll work in Texas, but it might. It certainly could.
00:08:58
>> Yeah. I think I think there's a a fairly large distinction between a sanctioned
00:09:02
sport where it's a lot of men in top physical shape. Um I don't like it. I
00:09:07
don't enjoy watching it, but I I I think that that is a legitimate sport. It's a
00:09:11
huge sport. It's I think arguably one of the most successful sports of the last
00:09:14
several decades. It's a well-run sport. Um creates a lot of economic value for
00:09:19
many of the fighters. So I, you know, I I think you can, I think in a bipartisan way, you can say
00:09:25
that the UFC serves a purpose and is successful. That the the ugliness around Taler Rico
00:09:31
is not only that one, it's not true, but two, to assume that leving an accusation
00:09:38
that someone is gay or trans is supposed to be negative. It trains young people are people that if you call someone
00:09:44
that, your opponent doesn't call you something unless they're trying to say
00:09:47
to the world that's a negative, >> right? Absolutely. No. No, no, 100%.
00:09:51
>> And I I hope at some point people regurgitate on things like that and say
00:09:57
quite frankly it's you know someone we used to call in college you used to call
00:10:02
people [ __ ] >> Mhm. Yep. Dikes and [ __ ] Yep. I got it. >> To be gay is to be bad. It's an insult.
00:10:09
And at some point some people someone says yeah and or what it's like people
00:10:16
online call me a Zionist. And I write respond, "Proud Zionist." I mean, I just
00:10:21
at some point people are going to realize going after people's sexual orientation just says more about you
00:10:26
than it says about them. >> It does. It's But it's it's a tactic.
00:10:29
They're trying to drum that in in that race. And unfortunately, it might work
00:10:32
in Texas. >> Well, it's an indictment on Texas that these people have done the research and
00:10:36
and decided that it works. >> Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. >> So, I I I hope he responds. I will say
00:10:42
this that >> I'm not sure what the response is. >> In defense Well, I'm not gay. In the
00:10:45
fence of James Toller Rico, he and I follow many of the same people on Instagram. And it's not thought leaders,
00:10:49
Cara. >> Yes, I know. >> It's some scorching hot young ladies who
00:10:54
make their living with a >> with a with a webcam. Um, >> they just they did it. They also trying
00:10:59
to do it to Andy Basher. They obviously Betto everything. You know, it's a it's
00:11:03
to me it's mean at the end misogynistic. And speaking of that, the Justice Department has opened a criminal
00:11:09
investigation. Of course, this all leads to the same thing. The Justice Department has opened
00:11:14
a criminal investigation into Eugene Carol, the former magazine writer who won two civil lawsuits against Trump
00:11:20
totaling, you know, close to $90 million in payments tied to sexual abuse and defamation. The DOJ pro probe is
00:11:28
reportedly focused on whether Carol committed perjury and testimony. Typical, this is what they're doing to
00:11:32
whether it's to Leticia James or whoever they're trying to go at. Um, specifically, Carol saying she hadn't
00:11:37
received outside funding for her legal bills. Her lawyers later said Reed Hoffman had contributed. This is the
00:11:42
latest in a series of DOJ probes targeting Trump's opponents and critics like James Comey, Leticia James, and
00:11:47
others. Though none of these investigations have led to convictions. In fact, they get laughed out of court.
00:11:52
Um, I spoke to Egene Carol for an episode of On in July 2025. She talked about the threats she's received and why
00:11:59
she has no fear. Let's listen. >> It's stupid to be afraid. Why live your
00:12:02
life that way? I've been here 81 years and I'm not going to waste the last of
00:12:06
it worrying about that guy in marmalade colored makeup. It makes no sense. So that's what I'm going to do.
00:12:14
>> So what do you think about this? This talk about misogyny and getting, you
00:12:17
know, she's won the cases against him and he's trying not to pay them and he's
00:12:21
doing everything possible to try not to pay them. And this is the latest Perry using the Justice Department to carry
00:12:28
out his toxic misogynistic efforts. >> I think it comes down to this. So one,
00:12:33
if she did say something that wasn't true under oath, that's real. Um, and
00:12:37
they're claiming that she didn't acknowledge that she was getting help with her legal bills. I don't know to
00:12:43
the extent though in a case like that that is grounds for revisiting a case when it doesn't matter when it doesn't
00:12:47
have anything to do with the actual crime she's accusing the president of. What is consistent here is the
00:12:53
weaponization of the DOJ to go after his political enemies. >> So, this is just another example of the
00:13:00
fact that we don't have a government that's meant to protect the people. It's
00:13:03
now there to protect the president. I mean, ju just to keep in mind, folks, this was a jury of his peers who heard
00:13:11
heard a ton of evidence and they said, "Well, it was in liberal New York."
00:13:15
Well, okay, New York, if you had nine jurors, five are probably Democrats, but four Republicans and two to mature a
00:13:22
conviction, all nine have to agree. So, so this was a you know this was there's
00:13:29
a reason that when someone is usually convicted of a crime the public used to come together and say this person is
00:13:36
guilty and you know should be disqualified or you know we keep it every time this stuff happened we keep
00:13:42
we kept thinking that's it. over and it wasn't. But it's just uh I do think it's
00:13:50
important to have a a legal scholar to say in most cases with this type of infraction if in fact she and she did.
00:13:57
She did not acknowledge that she was having her legal >> bill. Depends on when she was paid.
00:14:01
They're going to have to investigate that. But still, they're just they're
00:14:03
just grabbing its straws here is what they're doing. That's what they're
00:14:06
trying to do to find some way to impugn her and so he doesn't have to pay that
00:14:10
money. It's all the same. It's all about money. >> I don't even think it's about the money.
00:14:13
I think it's about overturning a conviction of a perceived enemy and going after her.
00:14:18
>> I think the guy the guy's made billions of dollars illegally on crypto. I think
00:14:22
is >> he still doesn't want to pay. He's a cheap bastard. He still doesn't want to
00:14:26
pay. >> I'm personally I'm surprised they did this. I would have thought they would. I
00:14:30
think this just brings it up again. I would have thought they would want it to fade into the distance.
00:14:33
>> He doesn't care. He doesn't care. Anyway, Eugene, uh we hope this goes
00:14:37
away, but it's such a it's such a [ __ ] nuisance. It's such a ridiculous
00:14:40
nuisance. Anyway, uh let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Pope Leo's
00:14:44
warning about AI. I'm very excited to talk about this. >> Support for the show comes from HIMS. If
00:14:50
you have weight loss goals, you already know how difficult it can be. Enter weight loss by HIMS. It's designed to
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Weight loss by HIMS is not available in all 50 states. WGOI is a registered trademark of Nova Nordisk as to get
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started and learn more including important safety information. WGOI clinical study information restrictions,
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visit hymns.com. >> Scott, we're back and we're going to start off with our next topic with a
00:15:52
question from a listener. >> Hi Cara and Scott, my name is Bridget and I'm calling from Oakland. I'm asking
00:15:58
as a Catholic Buddhist pivotarian. I was so delighted to hear that Pope Bob, also
00:16:04
known as Pope Leo I 14th, delivered his first encyclical, which was about AI, and he was speaking truth to power from
00:16:14
a place of power, which is pretty rare. Have either of you read it? And if so, what do you think? Do you think it can
00:16:22
move the needle towards putting guard rails up for this juggernaut that's really careening off the road already?
00:16:29
Or maybe even rein in those [ __ ] who are mindlessly amping it up for their own self-serving profits. Thanks
00:16:37
for all the humor and wisdom you've provided over the years. And keep it up.
00:16:42
Haha. Yep. I just set Prof up for a dick joke. I love Bridget. I love our listeners.
00:16:50
Pivotarian. Let's start a religion. >> That would be so good. Thank you,
00:16:55
Bridget. That was a great question. We love your sassiness. That's the kind of
00:16:58
listeners we love. Um, so to catch people up, Pope Leo released his first encyclical uh this week, a 4200word
00:17:05
letter to all about AI titled Magnificent Humanity. Magnifous. I can't say it in Latin, but it's Magnificent
00:17:12
Humanity. The Pope acknowledged that artificial intelligence can be a valuable tool. did not trash it, but
00:17:17
also warned the Aoras could become a new Tower of Babel. Um, he shared some strong words about what needs to happen
00:17:23
next. Let's listen to him himself talk about it. >> Artificial intelligence needs to be
00:17:30
disarmed. The word is strong, I know, but deliberately chosen because this moment
00:17:37
needs words capable of attracting attention, awakening consciences, and indicating paths forward for
00:17:45
humanity. >> Some of the specific things the Pope is calling for, government regulation of
00:17:50
private companies, driving AI development seems normal, protecting children from violent sexual or fake
00:17:55
information generated by AI. Excellent suggestion. safeguards to make sure humans are responsible for all decisions
00:18:01
tied to the use of weapons. Again, a great thing. He also didn't uh shy away
00:18:05
from talking about people at the helm of AI. That was really the focus is who's
00:18:09
running it. In the abstract, technology in and of itself is not a solution to humanity's problems, just it is not
00:18:15
inherently evil. In practice, however, technology is never neutral because it takes on the characteristics of those
00:18:21
who devise, finance, regulate, and use it. Uh some big tech folks are on board here. Anthropic co-founder Christopher
00:18:29
Ola uh joined the Pope at the Vatican as the encyclical was presented, but reactions from DC and Silicon Valley
00:18:35
have been mixed. Vice President J. Dance called the Pope's warning profound. That
00:18:39
was interesting, but Interior Secretary Doug Bergam told Fox News, "I didn't
00:18:42
know what tech editorializing was part of the role being a pope." Well, it is,
00:18:46
Doug. It's certainly not part of of your role as interior secretary. Uh David
00:18:51
Saxs wrote, "The Pope rightly warns that AI must serve human dignity, not become
00:18:54
a tool of domination of exclusion." Well, someone who dominates and excludes
00:18:58
was a nice thing to hear. But it goes on, if we hand go, of course he goes on, if we hand the government sweeping power
00:19:03
over AI development in the name of safety, how do we prevent it from being used to censor surveil or control
00:19:08
citizens? Honestly, this guy is so hypocritical. Anyway, um what did you think of the take? And I think he's been
00:19:15
listening to Pivot or a lot of stuff we talked about for years. I love Pope Bill
00:19:19
being on team on this team, but um thoughts on this? Well, we talk a lot about the actions of the administration
00:19:26
and different things that have just been really bad for brand us, whether it was
00:19:30
the insurrection or um you know, cutting off USA, there's just been so many poor decisions that
00:19:37
have really hurt our brand. I actually think the best thing or one of the best things that's happened for the US brand
00:19:43
you to a certain extent AI and just the economic boom out here and the fact that
00:19:46
we the most seinal technology in a long time in terms of share creation and what
00:19:50
might have an impact on the world is just owned and dominated by the US that's very good for our brand. Another
00:19:54
thing that's been great for our brand is is the is Pope Leo. He's just incredibly
00:20:00
articulate. He comes across as measured, brave, connects real world issues with spiritual issues and issues of dignity,
00:20:07
and he's American. He went to Villanova. >> Yeah, that voice. Yeah, Chicago. He's
00:20:11
got such a Chicago accent. I keep wanting to go the Bears. >> Yeah. Right.
00:20:16
>> Yeah. >> Um but just his comments, if you were just to distill his comments that were
00:20:21
really powerful, he believes that AI should serve humanity, not replace it. Uh the biggest danger is the
00:20:28
concentration of power. He's clearly he's talking a lot about income inequality and he's he's skeptical of a
00:20:35
small number of companies controlling the infrastructure of intelligence. Um and he wants he thinks AI could amplify
00:20:41
inequality and create talked about a new oligarchy where private firms wield enormous influence over truth, labor,
00:20:49
and governments. I would argue that, you know, the cat's already out of the bag
00:20:53
there. One of the more controversial things or interesting things I should say is you
00:20:57
said AI is not neutral that the algorithms encode the values of the creators not
00:21:05
some sort of neutral view on >> of different views of humanity which I'm
00:21:09
not sure I actually think in a weird way why social media has polarized us. I think that because
00:21:15
>> I think AI is different. I think it's more I do think from a viewpoint and
00:21:19
ideology standpoint it's more moderating uh and sometimes it comes across as
00:21:24
quite politically correct. I think he also talked about job displacement being a real moral issue. Uh autonomous
00:21:30
weapons terrify him. He called for it to be disarmed and worried about weapon systems operating beyond meaningful
00:21:36
human control. And then he talked about human connection. The thing I love, you know, I like the softer stuff, human
00:21:41
connection mattering more than >> synthetic intimacy. Um, >> and then, and this is the thing I think
00:21:48
if if you were going to try and translate this into some sort of legislation, and we're not focused
00:21:53
enough on this, is that uh children are are the most vulnerable. And I was just thinking about,
00:22:02
you know, think about when you learned to to write and how difficult it was. Like I know you were on your school
00:22:07
newspaper. >> Claire's doing it right. Yeah, I was. But Claire's doing it right now. It's
00:22:10
really interesting to watch. Yeah. I got I got a in my senior year of high school, I got a C in English. I had a
00:22:16
real difficult time writing and I went through that pain. I went through that friction and if I had just had AI like
00:22:25
write my papers, I I never would have made those connections. I never would have gone through the friction of making
00:22:29
those connections. And so, and I think the really >> trouble writing. You're a very good
00:22:34
writer. Actually, I'm always >> I got seasoned English. >> Surprised on the upside with your
00:22:39
writing >> because I did the work, right? And I think the question is if you have if
00:22:43
kids have AI, do they ever do the work and make the connections? As a matter of fact, in my first year at UCLA, I was
00:22:48
failing English one and I said, "What happens if you fail English one?"
00:22:51
Because it was a core class. You had to take it. It was a requisite. They say, "Well, you have to take English as a
00:22:56
second language despite the fact I didn't speak a second language." >> Wow.
00:23:00
>> Yeah, that was a pretty big I got my act together. >> Yeah. The friction. You're right. The
00:23:04
friction is what made you a better writer to to struggle with it to to figure it out yourself. And and this is
00:23:09
the problem and the threat of technology across all of our youth. And that is why
00:23:15
venture outside and go through the pecking order and the bullying order and figuring out your place and trying to
00:23:19
find or join a gang if you will of friends when you think you can have a reasonable fact of friendship on Reddit
00:23:26
or Discord. Why why take risks go through the expense humiliation enduring you know rejection of trying to find a
00:23:33
romantic relationship when you think you can replace it with synthetic lifelike character AIS or or porn. So the the
00:23:41
defrictioning of life and AI kind of takes it to a new level especially with academia or academics it teaches young
00:23:49
people to never develop the key skills they have to really uh be successful in life and enjoy life.
00:23:54
>> Yeah absolutely I think most important parts is this. I do think who's making
00:23:58
it matters and he was very clear about that in terms of he was saying like for example it's not the morality of AI it's
00:24:05
the morals of the people who make it and I think he was talking about being a very small group of people who are very
00:24:11
interested in um in in money really and I you know I thought it was very one of the things he was named Pope Leo because
00:24:18
of the last pope to do something like this was over manufacturing and and the mechanization of things and he's he's it
00:24:25
was very select elected to pick this topic. He very carefully didn't insult technology, but he really clearly
00:24:33
insulted its creators or said we need to do better. And I think being the conscience saying Doug Bergam is such a
00:24:39
[ __ ] I mean, of course, he's the conscience of, you know, that JD Vance acknowledged that. I think he's the
00:24:45
conscience of the world of his world and it extends well beyond Catholics, let me
00:24:50
say. Um, and I think it's really important for leaders like this to step up. um and and and and suggested I do
00:24:58
think it does have an impact as people are talking about it and they are talking about the issues he brought up
00:25:03
including these safeguards around weaponry protecting children and this is already in the air with people and the
00:25:10
fact that the pope does it and stands up and without any and then had some tech people there I thought it was he's such
00:25:17
a savvy person I'm excited to see what else he takes on and you know of course
00:25:21
the stupid Trump people call him the woke pope but honestly he's just He's
00:25:25
the it's called conscience. It's not woke. It's conscience. >> But he did say just to wrap up when you
00:25:31
were talking about automation and uh the last time technology appeared to be sort
00:25:36
of a threat. >> You the industrial revolution mechanized labor. And what he's saying is that AI
00:25:42
risks mechanizing judgment and creativity and intimacy and even >> meaning itself. And the way I would
00:25:49
interpret his comments was less catastrophizing around AI will kill us, but AI could potentially make us less
00:25:56
human while um concentrating extraordinary wealth and power in the hands of a few firms and states. I I
00:26:03
just think I think this guy distills right to the core of the issues. He is very smart. He is very impressive. He is
00:26:10
unafraid. I mean, as smart as he is, he clearly had very smart people working on
00:26:14
these these >> the people I've met at the Vatican have been amazing. But I love that he called
00:26:18
it magnificent humanity. And by the way, I love that he made cliffnotes for people. He made a little chart which is
00:26:23
really good. It's an excellent chart. Um I love a chart and I love a cliffnotee.
00:26:28
Um anyway, there's lots more a lot of little stories, but important. Uh installs for duck.gov jumped 30% after
00:26:34
Google announced its first overhaul in 24 years. Many people are disturbed by this. Um Google changes include a shift
00:26:39
to AI with bigger, more interactive search box that lets users ask longer questions and upload photographs. It's
00:26:45
it's a significant change for search. Um I have not used Google search in a long
00:26:50
time in a weird way. I do it I I actually I definitely use it for some things, but I tend to use I use all
00:26:57
kinds of search services, but it's not only through Google is all I'm saying.
00:27:01
It used to be only through Google and I like the simple box. I feel lucky box. I've always thought it was fine, but I
00:27:07
see why they're doing it. At the same time, a lot of people are like now they're never going to link to anything
00:27:13
but what they want to link to, but they've just sort of ended it for most people using Google to get to say media
00:27:20
websites or whatever whatever you're looking for. So that seems to be a shift.
00:27:24
>> I think it's a smart bold move. I I think they minus when you risk what is
00:27:29
arguably or do any twix the temptation around what is the most profitable largest toll booth in history. when you
00:27:36
risk, you know, there's just probably so much momentum to like guys who don't
00:27:40
[ __ ] with it. Like, don't >> absolutely >> don't change anything. So, I think it's
00:27:45
actually a pretty bold move. And I do find when I do Google search, those AI overviews are actually quite helpful.
00:27:49
>> They've gotten better. They were bad, now they're good. >> You said that. You said you like them.
00:27:53
Um, >> I do. >> So, it's I I think it's the right thing. They
00:27:58
have to respond. They have to push back. The reason why Alphabet was such an incredible buy, trading at 17 times
00:28:04
earnings last year, was the market believed that OpenAI and AI queries were a an existential threat to search that
00:28:11
it was become the new search. And what we're saying is they're both growing
00:28:15
like crazy. So, but I find that I do often times go to uh Claude instead of Google.
00:28:22
>> Yeah, exactly. And Google just never gives me what I want anymore. It's not
00:28:26
It's useless in some ways. And but when I like look for like how do you boil an
00:28:31
egg or I don't do that but um you know how many minutes for a jammy egg I'll go
00:28:35
to Google right that's but now actually I might go to claude you're right I
00:28:39
might do that so they they kind of have to you're right I know people are bothered but it's ch they have to change
00:28:45
you're absolutely right um next up President Trump abruptly postponed signing an executive order on a after
00:28:50
former AISR David Sachs reportedly voiced concerns it could prove too ownorous for the industry he got back he
00:28:55
was had lost power then he got it back. I guess the order would have granted the
00:28:59
government oversight on a new AI models before they released to the public. Very
00:29:03
temporary oversight, by the way, and it was some of it was voluntary. AI companies also been told that Trump was
00:29:08
not happy that many of their chief executives could not attend the signing. That's probably more to the point uh
00:29:14
being invited just 24 hours prior. I I don't think this order will resurface.
00:29:18
there was a a brief attempt by certain people within the Trump administration uh who who were who were more interested
00:29:25
in safety issues and uh David you know got in there and and so did Zuckerberg and um someone else I can't remember who
00:29:33
it was a third person um who got in there and convinced him otherwise Elon was Elon
00:29:39
>> this was uh I thought it was a good idea um the order would have required AI labs
00:29:43
to share frontier models with the government 90 days before public release for That seems like a very important and
00:29:50
basic first step for any of this. Something that really struck me was the founders of this technology, the people
00:29:57
that know more about it than any in the world are saying that this technology is
00:30:02
potentially more liberating than than nuclear fusion and potentially more dangerous. So, here's a technology that
00:30:13
the people who understand it the best are saying is potentially more dangerous than nuclear weapons. We didn't let
00:30:20
Oppenheimer start a company and start selling bombs to China. >> That's a good comparison.
00:30:25
>> So, >> that's actually a very good >> Well, I think there's a really decent
00:30:30
rational argument that if in fact you have something that is potentially more dangerous than any weapon in history,
00:30:37
wouldn't you want the government controlling it? >> Yes. We want it to be part of the
00:30:40
decision. Not only we're not only not controlling it, it's not only done it's
00:30:43
not only done under the opices of the department of defense cooperating with the private sector or Lawrence Livermore
00:30:48
Labs or what have you. We have people trying to go public and who have lawyers and lobbyists u many of whom stepped in
00:30:57
here to say you know we all talk about the need for regulation. We've been to
00:31:01
this movie before. We talk about we show up and stand next to the Pope and say and cosplay Sher Samberg we need to do
00:31:09
better. Yeah, >> we need to regulation >> and then Oh, no. Get on the phone. Tell
00:31:15
him no. Tell him tell him to stop. Tell him his his big bet on AI. 93% of GDP growth is now from AI capex can't do
00:31:24
anything to get in the way. And if you slow our runners down, the the free games anabolic steroid pumped up Chinese
00:31:31
models are going to are going to come for us and beat us. And there's no truth
00:31:35
to that. And if they did this correctly and they had standards, government review might actually make the industry
00:31:41
better and and make them less prone. You know, regulation at this point would be
00:31:47
a feature, not a bug in terms of capitalism and these companies ability to know know how to develop what they
00:31:52
can, what they can't do, what they need to check. But a 90-day review >> I know
00:31:57
>> does it take what is it? It takes a drug a decade to get through the FDA.
00:32:00
>> Exactly. It's ridiculous. I just there's a real beef going on in the
00:32:03
administration and Sax is on one side and some others are on the others and we'll see. You know, eventually this
00:32:08
will happen for these companies. They just want to put it off as long as they can. And Sax is not working for the
00:32:13
safety of the United States or anything else. He's working for his friends in
00:32:16
Silicon Valley. And that's >> You know who's actually increasing AI
00:32:19
legislation and regulation? >> China. >> China. They are. That's right. The
00:32:24
Beijing State Council issued a 2026 legislative work plan in May with AI, governance, language, appealing
00:32:30
>> and about jobs because they know what'll happen if people feel a drift in China.
00:32:35
That's not something that can happen. You're absolutely right. They're they're
00:32:37
so much smarter in how they handle these things, which is really a depressing thing to say.
00:32:42
>> They released they enacted binding rules on AI emotional interaction, identity
00:32:47
disclosure, y >> and content accountability. >> They read the pope. So, you know,
00:32:52
anyway, We passed zero AI legislation. >> Zero. Except in the states and there's
00:32:57
more to come. There there's a real anger brewing and it is not not it's it's
00:33:00
something a Democratic candidate should not like kill the billionaires kind of thing or or or or pitchforks, but
00:33:07
there's a pitchforky. I was just talking to Tim Miller on his podcast and he
00:33:11
feels a pitchforky moment and that's not what you want. You want something that's
00:33:15
makes sense. And unfortunately, cuz the tech people just can't possibly uh accept any kind of of strictcture or
00:33:22
speed limit, they they they're going to they're going to unfortunately get the
00:33:26
worst the worst outcome for themselves eventually, but probably they'll be just
00:33:29
fine. >> Well, hold on. Just to just to wrap on this, just as Lincoln said, no country
00:33:34
can lose a war when it has public support. No country can win a war when it doesn't have it.
00:33:39
>> Yeah. If you look at what Chinese China has done with AI and it has released a
00:33:44
series of um legislative policies and around emotional security uh concentration of power and it's made
00:33:52
them public. The difference is the following. The Chinese now support AI. 87% of Chinese people trust AI versus
00:34:00
just 32% of Americans because why? because the Chinese believe that their government
00:34:06
has the ability to protect them against AI and is regulating the technology effectively. 54% of Chinese people
00:34:13
embrace greater use of AI versus just 17% of Americans. And 9 and 10 Chinese age 18 to 34 said they had faith in the
00:34:22
technology versus four and 10 of Americans in the same age group >> and young people particularly. I mean,
00:34:27
good job David Saxs everybody. >> So you have the populace of China. >> Yeah. is embracing AI and trusts it and
00:34:34
trusts that they have a government to kind of soften the edges or reduce some of the externalities. Whereas in the US,
00:34:40
you have people driving hundreds of miles to protest a [ __ ] data center. >> Yeah, agreed. Agreed.
00:34:44
>> So that you want to talk about we just get it so badass award. We think
00:34:49
>> well it it has to do with tech people being up in Trump's grill and
00:34:53
controlling him. >> That's what it is. >> And Trump believing that a lack of
00:34:56
regulation he he doesn't understand the difference between >> move toward it though. Why did he move
00:35:00
toward it? Why was he going to It's really interesting. There's just largely
00:35:04
probably because they wouldn't show up to his party. That's my guess with him
00:35:07
cuz he's so ridiculous. Um but any in any case, we have to move on to this because this is a topic uh that you've
00:35:13
talked about. Uber COO says it's hard to draw a connection between the company's
00:35:16
rising use of claude code and the expense, especially the tokens and innovation meant to serve consumers.
00:35:22
This comes after uh after reports the company already burnt through its entire 2026 AI coding tools budget. This is to
00:35:29
buy tokens in just four months. Um, this is this is a one of these indications you were talking about, right? This idea
00:35:36
that what are we getting here for our money? Uh, am I paying too much for this muffler? That kind of stuff.
00:35:42
>> There 95% of CFOs in a interesting study done by a professor out of MIT
00:35:48
said that 90 only one in 20 CFOs are can point to a positive ROI and it's starting to bubble up into a real
00:35:56
expense. >> Yeah. And there's even Nvidia is claiming they're spending more now on AI
00:36:02
internally than they're spending on humans. And so this is it's going to be
00:36:06
very interesting car because for example claude is about nine times more expensive than some of the Chinese
00:36:11
openweight LLMs. And when the CFOs see these bills and aren't immediately able
00:36:17
to connect it, like Uber's blown through its AI budget, you know, in a few weeks
00:36:22
or a few months, and someone's going to ask, >> how is this making the consumer's
00:36:27
experience with Uber better, >> right? >> And this is how the whole thing unwinds.
00:36:31
one a a really credible CEO says, "Okay, we're going to scale back our investment
00:36:38
here until we can figure out a way to more directly attach to some sort of consumer benefit or ROI." And I think
00:36:44
where if you go second and third order effects, I think it goes the following places. Supposedly 80% of startups are
00:36:50
hacking or using some sort of Chinese openweight LLM. One, they use less expensive chips. They have cheaper
00:36:56
power. I also think they're pricing it below market because a lot of local provinces in China have sort of their
00:37:01
local champions that they're subsidizing. And I think what we're going to see is
00:37:06
the Trump administration when they start to see companies opt for their cheaper Chinese models. We've been to this movie
00:37:12
before. China steals our IP. >> Y >> develops 80% of what we have and sells
00:37:16
it back to us for 40% on the on the dollar. >> Yeah. Can I I'm going to interject. One
00:37:20
of the things Mark Cuban had when I was interviewing Daru Emodi at a recent event um I said send me a question
00:37:27
>> um and I said I had just written his essay Daario's essay uh machines of
00:37:32
loving grace um and he Mark wrote me this the first thing he wrote me back was explain the token economy to
00:37:37
everyone here do you see a scenario where the high cost of tokens makes it cheaper to hire people for certain jobs
00:37:44
I thought that was a great I did ask that it was a really it was he was already clocking this this issue that
00:37:50
maybe people are more less expensive than this token these tokens that that costs and tokens are what you spend on
00:37:58
computing just for people >> humans are less expensive and >> or can be
00:38:02
>> I mean cloud I think it's cloud cloud code max or cloud m I've already run out
00:38:07
of tokens I'm playing with this [ __ ] so often I had one of those prompts that
00:38:10
says you need to upgrade to cloud max which is $200 a month what's interesting
00:38:15
>> do you get the benefits do you get the benefits of the money you spend or just
00:38:18
you're playing with At this point, it's well worth it for me. I'm just fascinated by it. I have
00:38:23
discussions around >> So, it's a hobby. >> Yeah. And I also use it to I use it to
00:38:27
find data. If I'm struggling, if I have a paragraph that just sounds clunky, I
00:38:32
say I say, "How would you edit this or what analogies would be better?"
00:38:35
>> You know, you could call me for free and I would probably do a better job.
00:38:38
>> You're not available. And by the way, define free. >> I I actually think
00:38:44
>> in terms of in terms of economic cost, I would say it's free. In terms of
00:38:48
non-economic costs, I would argue you're you're pretty expensive. >> Anyway, we have to move on.
00:38:52
>> As sitting bull said, "What is free white man?" >> Oh, sick.
00:38:56
>> But but what's interesting what I found out about Claude Max, the $200 a month
00:39:00
thing that I'm about to upgrade to. >> Oh, you're going to do >> is that it costs them
00:39:04
>> for for you to use Cloud Max. It costs Anthropic $5,000 a month, >> right,
00:39:10
>> to deliver that product to you. >> Amazing. >> Yeah. just the the cost on
00:39:14
infrastructure and power >> once we sell more we'll volume we'll make it up in volume right is that the
00:39:20
>> well no the the what they're hoping is the the laws one of the first economic
00:39:25
concepts you learn is that and it's called it's not Jehovah's paradox I
00:39:30
forget this guy wrote a brilliant paper on it but I just thought he just summarized the term elasticity but the
00:39:35
economic term elasticity is that as the price of something goes down the demand for it goes up and everybody thought
00:39:40
well as computing power goes down and becomes cheap chips will go out of business
00:39:44
because you won't need as many from Intel. And what happens is as the cost of something goes down, more and more
00:39:49
people use it. And there's a viable argument, and I've sort of been making
00:39:52
this argument about what I call apocalypse, snow, and that is all the catastrophizing around labor
00:39:56
destruction. It's total [ __ ] that as the cost of AI go way down, we're
00:40:01
going to find more uses for it. We're actually going to end up hiring more programmers or vibe codes.
00:40:05
>> Could be. I I do think the costs are going to actually go down eventually,
00:40:08
but just not today. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. We come back,
00:40:12
we'll talk about Elon possibly combining SpaceX and Tesla just as Caris Fisher
00:40:16
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15% off. >> Scott, we're back with more news. As SpaceX prepares to go public, rumors are
00:41:33
again circulating that Elon Musk will eventually combine the company with Tesla. Obviously, God, I mean, we're not
00:41:39
speaking, but I know how this guy thinks. Musk has reportedly discussed the possibility with colleagues that two
00:41:44
companies are already share engineers and collaborate. There's all kinds of cross stuff that lot of sketchies cross
00:41:50
stuff if you recall at the time when he took over Twitter and collaborate on power and compute issues. Also, um uh by
00:41:57
the way, SpaceX got a $2.29 29 billion dollar contract to build a satellite communications network to connect
00:42:03
military sensors and weapons platforms around the world. Um they have to deliver an operational prototype by the
00:42:08
end of 2027. So he's doing well. He's doing well with his his Trump uh uh help
00:42:15
of Trump etc. The B it's a mutual benefit society for them. But this uh this putting Tesla in here, it just
00:42:21
makes complete sense is that he's someone said it was like two it was mortgage back securities, a bunch of pe
00:42:26
bunch of companies that can't pay wrapped around Elon Musk and a company that's okay, which is Starlink. Um so
00:42:33
it's like a sort of a collection and so he's shoving this stuff all together. Um
00:42:38
the it makes sense on a data point of view. Um it makes sense uh to hide a bunch of stuff. uh he already had these
00:42:45
weird very questionable transactions like buying cyber trucks for for SpaceX which makes no sense except if you want
00:42:53
to look good. Um so why not just mash the whole [ __ ] thing together and then make everybody buy it uh who is in
00:43:00
an index fund which is another thing. So any of these comments the contract the merger the the NASDAQ situation.
00:43:08
>> Well you did predict it but my analogy is the following. Um, Snow White is hot
00:43:13
and the prospect of getting to marry Snow White is super exciting and Snow White to SpaceX. But unfortunately to
00:43:18
buy SpaceX, you got to take on these seven [ __ ] weirdos who are expensive and neurotic and I mean XAI, which has
00:43:24
been attached onto uh SpaceX, an incredible company, is a money furnace that's playing catchup and
00:43:31
>> trying to be an infrastructure provider now. So is so is um Meta, by the way.
00:43:35
But go ahead. >> I still think Tesla's a great product. I got him one the other day and I do I do
00:43:40
think they have a fantastic car, but it's a struggling business with a multiple of 192 times Ford earnings and
00:43:48
Apple trades at 33 times forward earnings. And then if you look at Tesla's just business in the in in
00:43:54
Europe, they've >> fallen off sales have fallen for 13 consecutive months. Its market share in
00:43:59
Europe has gone from 1% to8% while the EV market has expanded about 30% in 2025. In Norway, sales are down 90%,
00:44:08
Netherlands down 80%, UK down 50%. Buying it. >> Meanwhile, >> BYD registrations are up 260%.
00:44:16
>> Yeah. >> In Europe. And the reason why it's valuation, I didn't say it was a bad
00:44:21
car. I said he didn't innovate in it. There was another new car. And BYD keeps
00:44:25
innovating. Every time you see a new one, you're like, "Cool." Tesla's the
00:44:29
same pretty much the same car for the past. And then they deliver Cybert truck as their innovation. So that's my beef.
00:44:36
>> Stocks are like brands and that is they're part promise and part performance and the promise. No one
00:44:44
articulates and gets more cheap capital on the promise part of that equation than Elon Musk. He's arguably the best
00:44:51
salesperson and communicator in the history of the public markets. And the promise though the performance is is
00:44:59
like so far behind the promise. For example, the promise has not worked out. So robo taxi miles, they doubled
00:45:04
sequentially in Q1, but it's he was saying that there would be a thousand robo taxis on the road about 5 years
00:45:10
ago. Uh across all three Texas cities where robo taxis operate, Tesla has just 25 unsupervised vehicles. Um I mean
00:45:19
none, right? Meanwhile, their SF robo taxi service still uses a safety monitor in the front seat. And there are five
00:45:25
and there are five more cities on the way, but must timelines famously cannot be trusted. And then and then he tries
00:45:31
to create all of these distractions. Look over here at robots. I'm staying I'm staying in Beverly Hills in Los
00:45:36
Angeles. If I go to my my deck, I can see a Whimo. They're everywhere in LA.
00:45:42
Garrett, >> there's actually fewer uh of the Tesla taxis robo taxis in in Austin. They've
00:45:47
cut them back. >> And then the worst car release or you know the worst tech product the last year was the
00:45:56
Cybertruck, which by the way is about to be bested by one of the great brands in
00:45:59
history. You're about to see one of the biggest brand failures in history and
00:46:01
that is the equivalent. Tech has literally like infected so many things and it's infected one of the purest
00:46:08
brands in the world. It's infected Ferrari. The new electric Ferrari is about to be just panned.
00:46:13
>> It was Yeah. Yeah. It's getting panned right now. >> Oh, it's going to be Johnny the Johnny.
00:46:19
>> It's going to be one of the brand stories of the year. >> They said it looks like a Honda, right?
00:46:22
It's basically they said Apple gave up on their project Titan and they slapped
00:46:27
a they slapped a a stallion on it. You're going to see oh my god you're going to see the Ferrari Pierce. You're
00:46:32
going to see so many 80-year-old old men going on to Tik Tok for the first time in their lives to ship post this thing.
00:46:37
And SpaceX, get this, SpaceX accounted for nearly 20% of Cybertruck sales in Q4 2025 cuz he bought back a bunch of
00:46:44
Cybert trucks. So I think it's smart for him to do. It's more jazz hands. It's
00:46:49
more pretending, attaching something to something amazing to try and >> Yep.
00:46:53
>> I mean, he's very good at this and you predicted it, but to take put Elon on
00:46:58
top of something that's very exciting around rockets, data centers in space,
00:47:02
>> rockets. >> Yeah. And he is a visionary. We need to be an interplanetary species
00:47:07
>> and now you have to buy it with NASDAQ. Explain to people very briefly what that
00:47:11
is so so people understand. the index fund issue is that it's they they've
00:47:16
lowered the amount of time before J big IPOs go into the index and now people are going to be forced to buy his
00:47:23
company. >> Um also open AI also anthropic etc. >> So basically the rule was before you
00:47:29
joined the S&P you had to be profitable for a certain amount of quarters and you
00:47:32
had to be in the index for at least a year. They've waved those rules because
00:47:35
they realize and it makes sense they're big important companies. What that means
00:47:39
is if you invest in an ETF or an index, you're automatically own these companies
00:47:43
at those prices. And at these prices, at these valuations, I would argue, I mean,
00:47:48
to a certain extent, the IPO markets might be over. And that is the way I see it is the the reason we went public, the
00:47:55
reason Google went public was you couldn't raise three or 5 billion from venture capital and private institutions
00:48:00
in 1997. Now there's almost as much capital, if not more, in the private market. So logically you have to ask
00:48:06
yourself why does a company decide to go public and one reason it's a branding
00:48:10
event two it creates more liquid currency potentially but these companies have very liquid currency on the
00:48:15
secondary markets they do it because I I think largely speaking and they don't
00:48:19
want to say this out loud once the private investors go look this thing's getting pretty frothy most of the juice
00:48:25
has been squeezed out of it well who is stupid enough to take the valuation even
00:48:30
further up well okay the last stop on the Trump on the chump train right now is the public markets. So, typically a
00:48:38
company like OpenAI would have gone public when it was worth 30 or 50 billion. But the existing investors of
00:48:44
Open AI and Anthropic say, "Oh, no, no, no, no. They're still juicier. Let's
00:48:47
keep this to ourselves and we'll find you capital." And then when they start
00:48:51
going, "Wow, this valuation is rich for even us. Let's go see if mom and pop
00:48:56
retail investor and people on Robin Hood and people on Reddit who love Elon and people around the world who want to
00:49:02
participate in the e economy are actually willing to invest. I my prediction is these three companies,
00:49:08
especially AI, are going to go through a pretty serious repricing. Not a collapse
00:49:11
like a 2000 collapse, but a repricing. And then when you combine that with the fact that you now have access to private
00:49:17
companies with different secondary markets, potentially the tokenization of small companies, it's just going to make
00:49:23
the IPO less and less relevant because of the reporting standards. And this is the indices trying to say we want to
00:49:29
make it more attractive for companies to go public and also reflect the S&P should reflect.
00:49:36
>> I get it. It's just that people shouldn't have this shoved an unprofitable company with with or held
00:49:42
up by one guy shoved down their throat without it's like getting the you is PNG shoved down their throat. It's
00:49:49
the same thing. >> It is but it's a profitable company has been a business like let's just give it
00:49:52
a >> but the best returns have been in companies that are growing faster and
00:49:55
not profitable. >> Yes, it is. And at the same time, let them buy it themselves then. I mean it
00:50:00
just seems like a risky thing to stick in there this quickly. That's all I just
00:50:04
I'm like it's going to benefit the people. It's going to benefit Elon Musk
00:50:08
but maybe not the pension funds of nurses. Like I don't know and I just don't think that risk is necessary.
00:50:14
>> In a weird way there's so many >> index fund. I don't want to own SpaceX.
00:50:18
I don't want not right now. >> I mean if you look if you look at the valuation of these companies going
00:50:23
public it's going to be combined $4 trillion. It's like from 1980 to 2020
00:50:27
the amount of money being raised just across these three companies is is just staggering. And what it probably will do
00:50:34
in the short run is it'll probably take the S&P down because so much money is
00:50:38
going to come from every corner of the earth to to participate in these things to raise $150 million. the rest of the
00:50:45
market feels that if you want to talk about I mean ju what happens I'm fascinated by
00:50:52
this because what happens when these three companies go public 11,000 people in the Bay Area Bay Area are overnight
00:50:59
imagine everyone who goes walks into Madison Square Garden place is sold out everyone who walked in was a 31-year-old
00:51:07
product manager making 180,000 or $240,000 a year good living but some student debt can't afford a house and
00:51:14
and they walk out on the worth 7 to $11 million. What happens? They have more kids. They buy a new house as evidenced
00:51:21
by skyrocketing prices. Uh upside here, you're going to see a lot of funds started. There's also tremendous new
00:51:27
business development. The other thing you're going to see, which is a good thing, you are about to see the mother
00:51:32
of all increases in philanthropic giving in the Bay Area. >> One would hope.
00:51:36
>> Well, I do people do the these people do start foundations. Let me just say if
00:51:41
you look at the actual statistics, it's McKenzie Scott and then a which is an
00:51:46
enormous graph like a big long bar and then all the others including Elon Musk down here. I'm
00:51:53
>> talking I'm not talking about the big ones. I'm talking about a lot of people.
00:51:57
Americans are very generous philanthropic people and when >> people sorry >> I'm I'm not talking there's there's two
00:52:04
things here. When you do when you do have this kind of liquidity event, you do see a bump up in philanthropy.
00:52:11
Philanthropy is almost entirely correlated now unfortunately to big IPOs in the stock market and and a lot of
00:52:19
people give stock to universities in the tax advantage universities. >> That's what I've done. Every time I
00:52:24
invest in a private company, I give a certain amount of it away to one of my, you know, to either public education or
00:52:29
suicide prevention. >> All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
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navon.com. Scott, we're back and I want to mention something quickly. CBS News just named
00:54:06
tech journalist Nick Bilton is the new executive producer of 60 Minutes. Builtin is a longtime tech journalist
00:54:11
and filmmaker who's never worked in traditional broadcast news. I know Nick.
00:54:16
Uh, interesting. I'll see. It'll be interesting to see what he has to what
00:54:19
he's going to do there. Um, and uh, we'll see where it goes. This comes on
00:54:25
the heels of 60 Minutes correspondent Sharon Alons announcing that CBS declined to renew her contract. She's an
00:54:31
excellent reporter. She did great stuff on Character AI. She's been a wonderful
00:54:34
reporter. The move comes 6 months after Alonsy's report on abuse inside Salvador
00:54:39
and Prisons was abruptly pulled uh, before airing a month later. Alonsi called the decision political, and it
00:54:44
certainly was. In a statement, she said she did a really uh like she just burnt the house down leaving. Alonsi said the
00:54:51
exit is quote a deliberate choice to penalize a journalist for refusing to sanitize factually accurate reporting.
00:54:56
She added sends a chilling message across the entire newsroom. And by the way, Sharon's not the only one. Anderson
00:55:02
Cooper stepping out the way he is not usually leaving a few weeks ago saying, "I hope 60 minutes remain 60 minutes."
00:55:09
He also was sending sort of a a shot across the bow there. I just want to call it these two excellent journalists
00:55:14
of 60 Minutes and um Sharon's a badass. I I don't I know are just met on text
00:55:21
actually but and Anderson I think has done an amazing job. So these are two really uh really great journalists and I
00:55:28
I predict that they will do just fine. But good for them for for uh speaking out and especially good there was a
00:55:35
student who won an award at the Emmys last night which was named scholarship for Mike Wallace and he delivered a
00:55:43
blistering attack on supporting these these two journalists and supporting others like them. And I
00:55:49
thought that person was incredibly it's very hard to speak out and Anderson and
00:55:54
Sharon and this young student uh did so and I I really you'll do you guys will
00:55:59
do just fine of Anderson particularly but in general um good for you for standing up. That's all I have to say.
00:56:05
It'll be a really interesting case study in organizational behavior and management classes in business school
00:56:09
and that is corporations continue to fall for the notion that if they bring in a small company they perceive as
00:56:16
really innovative that that small virus is going to infect the entire corpus. And generally almost always what you
00:56:22
find is that the corpus rejects the virus. It's like acquisitions work when the acquiring company has the scale and
00:56:30
distribution or capital to help scale the small innovative company. But to believe that the innovation is going to
00:56:35
infect the larger corporation or corpus almost never works out. So let's give
00:56:42
let's give the free press the benefit of the doubt. Innovative little company
00:56:45
subscription-based interesting positioning and the Ellison's thought that's the kind of
00:56:50
mojo and juice and infection we need at this larger somewhat encphilletic corpus
00:56:55
called CBS or Paramount. There's been Oregon rejection. Also, what CEOs of smaller companies fail to recognize is
00:57:03
the following. And it's the reason why I've never been able to grow a big
00:57:07
company to small companies. And that is a small company is ready for our aim. The person at the top really does get to
00:57:14
make swift, crisp decisions. I am the decider. This is the way we're going. Our one of our key things here is speed,
00:57:23
which means this is not a democracy. There's very few things that are less democratic than a small company trying
00:57:28
to work fast or go fast because it's kind of like what do we think okay get on it ready fire aim let's start
00:57:34
yesterday in a large organization that's scaling it's more about consensus and
00:57:39
and getting people on board and culture and you're you're a speedboat ramming a
00:57:44
tanker and what you fail to realize as the CEO of a company like this and what I think Barry has failed to realize is
00:57:51
you're Phil Jackson the coach of the Bulls and that is Your job, you're blessed with some unbelievable assets.
00:57:58
Your job is not to coach Michael Jordan. It's to get along with him and be a
00:58:04
resource for him. You're not in charge. They are. They're the asset. When you're
00:58:10
Mikuel Artetta and you're coaching Bukayasaka at Arsenal, which by the way just won the Prem League. This is very
00:58:15
exciting. When you come into an organization like CBS and you do have kind of these stars that are iconic,
00:58:22
your job is to get along with them. >> Well, let me say 60 Minutes has been
00:58:26
enormously successful. It's not I mean, no, but I'm just saying like pretending
00:58:30
it's just cuz they're in Sephletics and this sassy new startup is going to
00:58:34
change things. I think a lot of these errors are errors of incompetence, not of trying to change things and these old
00:58:39
people won't change. These are like top level journalists that were doing a great job and has had 52 years of
00:58:46
success. Like, you know, they're doing well. It's not like they're not doing
00:58:49
well. So, why >> I I think we're speaking past each other. I'm agreeing with you. CBS is
00:58:55
Michael Jordan. >> Yeah. >> Barry Weiss is Phil Jackson. >> His job isn't to show up and reorganize
00:59:00
and tell everyone how to dribble and play again. His job, quite frankly, is to get The only management of CBS is the
00:59:07
following. Hi, nice to meet you. How can I help? >> That's it. How can I help?
00:59:14
>> Yeah. >> And if the answer is go away and leave us alone, >> fine. If it's we could use more
00:59:19
resources here, we have trouble here or we don't think our advertisers are, >> how can I help? That's it.
00:59:26
>> Let me say one of the things it happened at the Washington Post, too. blaming
00:59:29
these reporters like when Will Lewis was like trashing the reporters is like it's
00:59:34
such an easy thing to do for people who think they're innovative is like you all
00:59:38
suck and some of some of the things need to change but to say it's it's a problem
00:59:43
of it's a bigger secular problem that's the issue in terms of cost and everything else and so just telling
00:59:49
people just breaking things is not building things and that's that is really hard to do when you're I that's
00:59:55
why we I never want to be at a big company I don't know about you But I like a being a small speedboat. And if
01:00:01
you make mistakes, you make mistakes. If you don't, you don't. I That's how I
01:00:04
feel. But I don't know about you. >> Oh, yeah. And this is this is a reason
01:00:07
why I've never built a billion-dollar company. I saw companies, you know, when
01:00:11
they as soon as they have a CFO or someone in HR, I'm like, time to sell. But having been on involved with a lot
01:00:17
of big companies, I just shocked me. It just shocked me right away. The first thing I thought, well, we should do
01:00:21
this, this, and this. And the CEOs were always, okay, they really had to think about what would be required to get buy
01:00:27
in. Yeah. >> to to potentially change the culture to explain be thoughtful to
01:00:34
>> create the right incentive mechanisms to ensure the behavior lined up. And I mean
01:00:38
you really are there's some amazing things about a tanker, right? It can carry whatever it is 100 million barrels
01:00:44
or 10 million barrels of a product. Uh but you are you know you're steering a
01:00:49
tanker and it takes a lot of effort and a big engine room and a lot of people. It's it is a different there's so few
01:00:55
people that can go from a lot of people I always say where are you in the alphabet are you from A to D. I'm good
01:01:02
at A to D. >> Yeah, me too. >> Some people are good at coming in uh my
01:01:06
old CEO at L2 Ken Allard was good at kind of D to D to H or I and some people are can come into a company that's you
01:01:15
know gone public. Dar Kaser Shahi is is amazing very good example is like great from L to S. He came into a company that
01:01:23
was already jamming, scaling, huge infrastructure, huge brand and said, "Okay, somebody needs to get here."
01:01:30
>> And also, there's some people who come into companies that are distressed who
01:01:33
take a company from, you know, whatever it is, TZ. They come in and cut costs and repackage something, take it through
01:01:40
bankruptcy, and make a lot of money. >> Scott, your next book is The Alphabet of
01:01:44
Management. Yeah. All right. I want to hear your prediction, though. So, I'm
01:01:47
I'm going to do I'm all confused and jet-lagged right now. So, I thought we
01:01:50
were doing wins and fails. So, it's okay. I'm going to do wins and fails.
01:01:53
But my win is and it just hasn't gotten enough attention and it's just so
01:01:59
exciting and it's such a victory for the west and I would argue it's actually in
01:02:02
many ways while Iran has overshadowed it and inflation I people really don't
01:02:08
understand that something incredibly wonderful is going on here >> which is what
01:02:13
>> and that is three years ago Russia was supposed to take Kev in a weekend.
01:02:16
>> Yeah. And today, Ukraine is striking Russian Russian military infrastructure,
01:02:21
oil refineries, ports, bomber bases, and semiconductor plants. >> Hundreds sometimes sometimes more than a
01:02:28
thousand kilometers inside of Russia. Putin is on the run. >> He is. It's I told you when I told you
01:02:36
that a couple weeks ago that all these people said Russia, he's in much more
01:02:39
trouble than you realize. But go ahead. Just recently they've hit the Riazan
01:02:43
refinery, one of Russia's largest fuel plants supplying the military. The Touabsi refinery in the Black Sea.
01:02:50
They're going after ships. They're going after the Black Sea fleet. Oil uh
01:02:54
infrastructure in Perm 700 miles from the border. >> Amazing. >> The Yaz Yazavre refinery 700 kilometers
01:03:03
inside of Russia. And even the English >> Imagine in this country that happened.
01:03:08
Jesus Christ. If they started bombing oil fields in Texas, >> Buffalo, like or our military ships in
01:03:17
San Diego. Can you imagine? >> No. No. >> Or that's what I think about our place
01:03:23
our um in Canadians >> or North Virginia building our submarines. What if drones were hitting?
01:03:29
I mean, this is just >> incredible. And it's a function of drones. It's a function of it's also
01:03:36
quite frankly >> you know we don't like to say this must turning off Starlink in Russia has
01:03:40
seated huge advantage >> to the Ukrainian army. >> That's always been a benefit. No
01:03:45
question. >> If you think about this what are they doing? They're producing
01:03:50
thousands of long-range drones per month uh in 2024. In 25 they're doing 3,000.
01:03:56
>> They're going to be a huge technology country when this is all over.
01:04:00
>> Oh yeah. They they'll attract so much capital assuming assuming >> I'd go there if I was a young person.
01:04:04
That's exactly though the corruption is really quite impossible to deal with but
01:04:09
um if I was a young person I'd go there but there there are significant corruption problems within that
01:04:13
government and >> but there's a wonderful message being sent to the world and that is um there's
01:04:18
a brutal lesson for authoritarians. Uh corruption scales until it collides with reality and technology and an motivated
01:04:25
populace. Russia built the PTM village version of a superpower, yachts, parades,
01:04:32
>> always >> hypersonic missiles, um, shirtless horse cosplay. And the Ukrainians, meanwhile,
01:04:40
>> I like that part. The Ukrainians, meanwhile, build software, drones, and
01:04:43
engineers. And just some numbers here to just talk about >> how incredible this is.
01:04:49
>> You You're rushing them this morning. What What >> I'm not rushing you that you're
01:04:53
fascinated with are you about to go interview? I'm not I'm not going anywhere.
01:04:57
>> Seriously, what is it? The ghost of Walter Montdale. Who's up next on on
01:05:01
with Cara Swisser? Russia has three times the population, 10 times the economy, nuclear weapons, and one of the
01:05:08
largest oil reserves in the world. And Ukraine is kicking its ass. >> I know. I love it.
01:05:12
>> And Ukraine, what does Ukraine have? >> Ukraine has coders and hoodies.
01:05:16
>> Hoodies >> turning Home Depot into Lockheed Martin. I mean, these guys
01:05:22
>> amazing. So look, increasingly, and this is a lesson for us, unfortunately right
01:05:26
now, the future belongs to the side that can innovate faster than the other side.
01:05:29
>> The Iranians with the boats and the drones and the >> So that's my win. And it hasn't got
01:05:33
enough attention. This is so exciting for the West, for Ukraine. >> But can I make one caveat? If Putin
01:05:40
feels cornered and scared, he might do something terrible. >> Yeah, that's the fear.
01:05:45
>> You know that that's that to me. >> Unless you're going to annihilate your
01:05:47
enemy, you got to give him a way out. That's what that's Sunzu. And >> yeah, but I don't think he think he
01:05:52
thinks that. I think he's terrified. >> But this is a victory for for also for
01:05:56
the EU who has been steadfast in their support unlike Americans. >> Yeah. >> Um I just I it's it's just very
01:06:02
exciting. >> Trump will back him if they win. He'll go like, "Oh, I'm with the winnows.
01:06:06
>> I'm with them. I was always behind him." >> I was behind them. All right. What's
01:06:08
your fail? >> My fail is I just I think the best way Timothy Snder summarized it perfectly.
01:06:13
I've been trying to figure out a way to describe what is effectively a $1.8 an
01:06:17
$8 billion slush fund that uh Trump and his his spokesperson Blanch had been trying to pitch and even even um some
01:06:26
Republicans are finally blanching. >> And the best way to describe it is a
01:06:31
terrorist immunization fund. >> Oh, >> and that is commit violence on my behalf
01:06:36
and I will not only legally protect you, I will pay you. Mhm. >> In addition to the corruption, it sends
01:06:41
a signal to weirdos out there who are cult members, that if something gets in the way of Trump, whether it's people
01:06:50
turning out to a poll booth, whether it's people showing up to inaugurate the
01:06:54
other guy, which I'm claiming was not fairly elected, I want you to commit acts of violence. I want you to engage
01:07:00
in terrorism. >> And you will not only get off, >> you get paid. >> I'm going to pay you. Yep.
01:07:06
>> So, this is this is not a slush fund. This is not only corruption, it's a
01:07:11
terrorist immunization fund. >> I love that word. >> And that is the way I can't take credit
01:07:16
for it. It's Timothy Snder, who's what I I'm just obsessed with. Um, and I've had
01:07:20
on the pot a couple times who's at the University of Toronto and talks a lot
01:07:22
about democracy and autotocracies. He's fantastic and he's very brave. >> He's the dude Heather Cox Richardson.
01:07:28
>> But this is That's right. But this is imagine if uh a nation in the Gulf found
01:07:34
name your terrorist organization and said you blow yourself up you commit acts of violence. Not only we not
01:07:40
prosecute you, we've set aside money for you. >> Right. Well, they kind of did that.
01:07:44
>> Well, the PLO used to do that. The PLO used to say any any suicide bomber we
01:07:49
going to give their family x amount of dollars. >> Yeah, >> that's what this is.
01:07:53
>> Yeah, I agree. >> And it's I Anyways, I hope the Democrats adopt that pass. I don't I think the
01:07:59
Republicans tell us the others are all very much against it. There's a lot >> in all of these hearings. Uh why do you
01:08:04
support the terrorist immunization fund? They should absolutely label it that. That's what that's what this is.
01:08:11
Anyways, that's >> that's my fail. >> Terrorist baking fund. Maybe
01:08:15
immunization. Anyway, all right. That's great. Those are both great and you're
01:08:18
going to have to have new ones for Monday, just so you know. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions
01:08:22
about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or
01:08:27
call 85551 pivot. Before we go, I'm taping a live interview of On with Cara Swisser at the Rebecca Film Festival on
01:08:34
Monday, June 8th. It is not >> Someone's got their nose off Murdoch's
01:08:38
ass. >> Uh, no, I'm not. I was I was booked before the deal and months ago. Anyway,
01:08:45
instead of Walter Montdale, you're not invited to the special dinner with Robert Dairo, but I am. I'll be talking
01:08:51
to comedian, actor, and podcast pioneer Mark Marin. not Montdale. >> He's fantastic.
01:08:56
>> Uh and he has there's a new doc about him and he's also a great actor and
01:08:59
funny comedian and everything else. He loves to trash statement of his. >> What?
01:09:03
>> My favorite and I use it all the time. >> What? What? >> He's like, "Do you realize Democrats
01:09:07
literally annoyed America into fascism. >> I love that." >> Anyway, he's great. He's really great.
01:09:12
Tickets are available now at the dbecafilm.com/audio. Scott, what Scott's referring to is the
01:09:18
Murdoch's. James Murdoch owns Tbeca. Um we will see you there. Okay, that's the
01:09:22
show. Thanks for listening to PI and be sure Pivotarian become a Pibbitarian. Be
01:09:27
sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week.