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I would like to say you have dropped the fbomb three times on >> I know. I know. I know. I know. You can
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do it anytime. >> I'm zero. >> Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York
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Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser. Scott is off still. I don't know where Scott is. He's
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just off rambling around. Actually, I'm going to see him tonight at the premiere
00:00:25
of my uh new series for CNN. Uh, but I brought on another incredible co-host. He's been ambassador to Japan and the
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mayor of Chicago. It seems like he's running for president. It's Rahm Emanuel. Hey, Rah. How you doing?
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>> I'm good. How are you? >> Good. Good. You have been everywhere.
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What What's happening? >> Try to tell us what's happening besides lecturing the Democratic party, which
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we'll get to in a minute. But what what what are you doing? >> Well, um, first of all, I'm listening to
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American people. been out and uh talking to them about things like how to make sure they get ahead, their families get
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ahead on the community college plan. Uh but also, you know, like a young man I met in Spartanberg who's going to
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community college, he's got a job waiting at GE for 33 an hour with benefits and he was unemployed. And what
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they're doing at that community college is exactly what I want to see us do everywhere. Something similar we did in
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Chicago, something similar lacrosse. but also, you know, listening to the nurse in Iowa who's talking about that she now
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spends close to 50% of her time arguing with the insurance companies. So, and about how to make sure that people get
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the healthcare that they're actually her and the doctor are prescribing. >> You've been a public figure, but often
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in the in the in the national way, you've been a sort of behind this and you've been a congress person, but how
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do you how is it different what you're doing here in terms of running for president or trying or thinking about
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running for president? >> Yeah, I mean that's fair. Look, I mean, I've been a congressman. I've been a
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mayor of both. >> Not insignificant. >> Front facing. Yeah. Front facing.
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>> Yeah. Also chairman of a leadership in Congress. But that said, I mean, you're
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evaluating uh and one of the things I know about running for office uh is you got to make sure your head, your heart,
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and your gut are all align. >> Uh I I'm going to just say it up front.
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I don't need a title. I got more titles. I can auction them off. I'm also I'm about getting stuff
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done. Like take something I'm very proud about. You know this because from our
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many conversations, we raised our graduation rate from 56 to 83%. 98% of our kids had a pan post high school
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college community college branch of the armed forcification school. I'm not I'm
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about getting stuff done, not about getting another title. and do I think I actually understand what it takes to
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move this country and move help the American people get ahead and their kids get ahead and do I have the fortitude to
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do that and so that's what what I'm looking at I'm not I don't need as I
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said titles is for other people getting crap done is what we did in Chicago 20,000 kids went to community college
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for free every child had a plan post high school on education we started prek and kindergarten so I'm into moving
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stuff and as I We like to say in Chicago, taking the garbage out, getting stuff done. And
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>> so what >> do I think I do? I So you evaluate that, >> right?
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>> But you know, this also takes I jokingly said when I was recruiting candidates
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for Congress, >> takes a a little level of a little kind of irrational act because you're jumping
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over without uh any nothing below and nothing above. Mhm. So if you're like Ram Rahm Emanuel evaluating you as a
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competitor, what would be your biggest asset and your biggest negative from your perspective? If you were like, I'm
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going to get this. Let's go ahead. This I'm getting on the couch and we get to
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make sure Blue Cross covers that at one level on the positive side and here's how I
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stand it is >> putting out ideas from like we did on elementary uh school and learning and
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reading and addressing the 50% of our kids can't read. went to Mississippi how to reform our high schools so
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they're less about diploma more about college career planning and community college educational ed to social media
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ban basically a wealth of ideas I am tired of having a debate about how to restore a past and about how to build a
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future and that is what I'm so on that point get an A uh on the kind of strength and energy that is determined
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not only for the job >> Mhm. uh bringing there uh an agame as well. And I also think more importantly
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>> telling people the truth. >> I'm not going to tell you what you want
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to hear. I'm going to tell you what I think you need to know and we're in this
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together rather than trying to fight each other all the time. And that's a rare moment for a middle child to say
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that. Uh on the other side is you have a campaign which is slightly about it's
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not slightly there's a big debate about generational change and I've been
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around. Now, the good news of that is uh I I think I know the family room. I know
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what I could call uh the classroom, the break room, the boardroom, the situation
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room, and I want the Democratic party to get out of the bathroom. I'm tired of
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being there. That said, you're all your strengths are your weaknesses. So, the
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long resume, I can hit the job one. The problem with the uh resume is in a period of change, you're you kind of
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don't represent that from one level. The other part of change though is for a
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party known for its weakness. >> I don't bring that. I bring a different
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level of strength. >> Sure. Right. >> So that's how I evaluate it.
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>> Is it I'm just curious. Is it Do you ever worry about like you and I are both
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I would say difficult people in a good way necessarily and I'm I'm saying that
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about myself too. And >> we're let's just let's do it smoother.
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We're we're acquired taste, >> right? That's what I mean. We're
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acquired taste. Do you I mean cuz you know there's there's a there's a a
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likability kind of thing and I I like you but do you think about that or has that changed in in in
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>> No, you know uh no because uh first of all I know how I am out with I'm out
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about people where I was in Lacrosse Wisconsin in Grand Rapids Michigan in Franklin New Hampshire or in the uh what
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is referred to in South Carolina as a corridor of shame and Abbyville etc. all the black counties that were ignored by
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uh Colombia, South Carolina. So, I know that on the other hand, I am I am I mean, again, this gets back to this is
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true for you, it's true for me, it's true for everyone, which is your strengths, your weakness. I'm direct.
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I'm forthright. Nobody walks away from me and go, "Boy, was he subtle? We
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didn't really know what he said." Uh, now that one level >> that works. At another level,
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>> it doesn't. And that, but here's the thing. I'm at a point in my life
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This would be the last race. I'm going to tell you what I think has to happen.
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As I said, in 2024, you didn't have a choice. 2028, it's going to be Baskin
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and Robbins. And I plan on being Rocky Road. >> Right. Rocky Road. >> I'm I'm going to say this is in this
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moment of where I'm with my therapist, Miss Dr. Swiss or >> Yeah, right. That's me.
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>> I am liberated at a different place than I've been as President Obama's chief of
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staff or as mayor or ambassador or whatever. >> I'm going to This is it. Final race. I'm
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going leave it on the field in the sense of we as a country literally have hunger games. I'm This is
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about the future. We've had two presidents who've argued about restoring
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a past that's not coming back and either we're going to build that future or
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we're going to talk about America in past tense and I don't want to do that
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and I'm not going to selines commenting about it. >> Yeah. Yeah. You've run out of but
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you never had Fox Rom. So that's that's kind of an interesting situation. This
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is really interesting. I really am fascinated. You know, a lot of people ask me, I'm like, I don't know. Maybe
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it's appealing to people, right? You don't have to be slick. You don't have
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to be likable, you know, and obviously Trump has turned from he had a charisma to something else. That's really good.
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>> But I don't, you know, the one thing I know about presidential politics,
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President Obama was an answer to George Bush. George Bush was an answer to Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton was an answer to
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the Reagan Bush years. Not where is Donald Trump. You're interested in clicks.
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I'm not that. I'm interested in kids knowing calculus. You're interested in
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social media posts. Great. I'm interested in making sure we know our social studies. So, that's not it. And I
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think where the puck will be in 2028 isn't about how do you how do you imitate Donald Trump? It's actually how
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do you act like an adult? And I think if we're all honest with ourselves, I do
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look, President Biden, uh, Build Back Better, >> Donald Trump's MAGA is about restoring
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something that is not coming back. The sooner we get to figuring out a future and then how to work together to get
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that done will actually matter. And the reason all the things I happen to think education is a ticket to the middle
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class and to families making it and your kids making it. >> The reason I've been so focused on it is
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you're not getting there with 50% of our kids not able to read at grade level.
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You're not getting there when we don't have a plan how to make sure that we
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have the electricians, the carpenters, the sailors, the nurses, >> or the chemical engineers. not just
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people who know how to do fast trading on the stock market, but the engineers that know how to actually build
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something for the future. Uh that to me is more important. And if it's not rejected, my ego is not hurt. I'll have
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done what I think I think is important to shape the debate and get us focused on the future in a way that I think the
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last 20 years focused on the past. >> It certainly can't be anti-Donald Trump
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or it can be a little bit as you said. I remember you said let's make the to 2026
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anti-Donald Trump and then we leave him behind in the dust bin like if they win 2026 is we just coming in the shadows of
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Wisconsin. It is a referendum on Donald Trump and a rubber stamp Republicans. 2028 is a choice election and unless we
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have a compelling story to tell about the future and what we're going to do,
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we won't win that. We have to have a compelling story and that is my focus not only for the campaign but more
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importantly for the country and that also I can tell you from being all over the country we have to make common cause
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with the largest party in America which is independent non-aligned stop talking to ourselves and start
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talking to the people that will determine because in the last three presidential elections seven states
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700,000 voters have determined who's president of the United States and if we
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don't find common pause with quote unquote independent voters, right? >> We will continue to be a minority party.
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>> That was exactly what my political just told me in an interview I did with him
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last week. Same thing. Um, so let's get to the news then. Let's talk about
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what's happening right now and we'll talk a little bit more about the future
00:10:50
after that. But as of this recording, the Iran, this is an important thing for the future. The Iran war ceasefire is
00:10:56
looking a little shaky. There's confusion around the status of the Strait of Hormuz and the disagreement
00:11:00
over whether the truce includes Lebanon. Uh the truce includes Lebanon. Trump announced a two-we ceasefire on Tuesday
00:11:06
night. Two weeks is always his magic number. He backed down from his threat of a whole the whole civilization would
00:11:12
die if the deal wasn't released. Um reached. Jimmy Kimmel called it the taco
00:11:17
Tuesday of all. Taco Tuesday. Um and then of course, you know, it's um you know, walk back Wednesday essentially.
00:11:25
Uh Megan Kelly, I'm going to play her. I don't usually do it because she gives me
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a headache. Wasn't too happy either. Um but listen to this. Listen to this. Let's play it.
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>> I don't know about you, but I am sick of this I'm just I'm I'm sick of it.
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Can't he just behave like a normal human? I mean, honestly, like the president, 3D chess, just shut up.
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shut up about that You don't threaten to wipe out an entire civilization. We're talking about
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civilians just casually in a social media post. I don't often agree with Megan, but
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there you go. I think she's sort of articulating what's happening on the
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right. >> Donald Trump's bringing people together rather than dividing them. You like
00:12:10
Megan Kelly. Think of the upside of this a new a new level of humanity in you that's been found towards people you
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disagree. >> It's not humanity. It's like are you I agree with her. And I I find
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common cause with Marjorie Taylor Green, right? Until I start talking about some
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other topics. But Pope Leo is also weighing in calling the threat against Iranian people truly unacceptable. He's
00:12:31
in a his for some reason Trump's gotten in a beef with the pope which is terrible. In terms of what happens next,
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Vice President JD Mance is traveling to Pakistan to for peace talks this weekend
00:12:40
along with Steve Witco and Jared Kushner. Uh Dumb and Dummer Trump says that all US military personnel and
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assets will stay near Iran until real agreement is reached. Talk a little bit about this. You've been in these rooms.
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Like what is It seems like he's not playing chess. he's eating the pieces
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like or or something or maybe he's not getting good advice or else he's cognitively has
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>> I don't want I don't want to just say about the room but >> it's clear there isn't a situation room
00:13:08
they've moved it into the oval office and whoever walks in there's a couple
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doors there's four doors there's there's one outside there's one to the uh you
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know where the assistant lit sit there's one to the goes to the roseell room and
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there's one that also goes to the uh first president's library and they've
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moved all in there. There's not a serious analysis. Uh think about this. You have
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Vice President B is going there. You have Wickoff and uh and Jared Kushner with no diplomatic uh support. Go back
00:13:39
to when they're meeting uh in Geneva. There was no experts around the nuclear
00:13:44
capacity or everything. Wikoff and Kushner were winging it and it clearly showed because the UK intel officer who
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was there >> said Iran was actually offering us something very serious in the sense of
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concessions to avoid the military confrontation and neither Kushner or W >> understood it. Now
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>> I said this jokingly but I'm very serious. if they ever do a sequel to
00:14:08
Dumb and Dumber, there's going to be a lot of competition for who gets to play
00:14:11
the lead in this administration. >> Right >> now, the other piece is, and you led on
00:14:16
this, and we're talking about what Megan Kelly uh said. Um, look, there's a lot
00:14:21
of different roles to the president. There is the moral voice of the presidency when the challenger goes
00:14:29
down, you know, bringing the country or 9/11 like President Bush. There is the commanderin-chief
00:14:35
which is the most solemn position of the president of the United States. The president the commanderin-chief
00:14:44
Roosevelt understood it when he said America would be the arsenal of democracy. Lincoln understood at the beginning of
00:14:50
the war. He understood it midway when he did the Emancipation Proclamation changing the definition of the war. We
00:14:56
have a president of the United States who has asked 50 plus thousand servicemen and women, not counting all
00:15:02
the other pieces that are supporting those 50,000 on the front line to achieve a mission of national security
00:15:08
importance for the United States. And he's talking about obliterating a civilization. You owe the troops a
00:15:14
definition of why. You owe the servicemen and the country. You owe the servicemen here's what victory will look
00:15:20
like. So, we've accomplished our goals and here's how it's going to end and
00:15:24
this is how we know we have succeeded in one and two. None of that by the commander-in-chief has been
00:15:30
accomplished. >> Right. They declare they have been declaring victory over and over in
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Carol. >> But but but but this is what I say. But here, step back underneath what you just
00:15:41
said. You know, and everybody else in the world knows except for people of 1600 Pennsylvania. Nobody believes our
00:15:46
president. Now, this has been overused as an anecdote. When Stevenson goes to see De Gaul during the Cuban missile
00:15:52
crisis, he's about to take photos out. >> De Gaul says, >> "I have the word of the president of the
00:15:58
United States. I don't need those photos." Nobody would do that here. Everybody is looking at our our Keystone
00:16:04
cops at 1600 Pennsylvania. They know a president of the United States who literally truth is the most flexible
00:16:10
thing he's ever seen. He doesn't believe in truth. He believes in spin. And so
00:16:15
this is the degradation of the word, the credibility and the and the mantle of the president of the president of the
00:16:21
United States and more importantly the United States of America because this is a baton that gets handed off. So at
00:16:27
every level, not only did they start not knowing that they actually had accomplished something, they were too
00:16:34
foolish and stupid and arrogant to know that. B, they go into a war without clear objectives
00:16:40
and then they literally talk about a victory here. Now I have I thought about the you know there's two points I would
00:16:47
make right now >> because they went into a war to obliterate degradate whatever word you
00:16:54
want to use the nuclear capacity of Iran. >> They already had even we obliterated
00:16:59
then we obliterated it again and then now we're going to obliterate it. He was
00:17:02
even making fun of the of >> Iran discovered they have a nuclear operation called the straight of
00:17:06
hermoose. So, first and foremost, declare a policy either all ships get out or no ships get out. That would cut
00:17:15
off Iran's economic lifeline to China and would put pressure on both of them.
00:17:20
two m medium-term the United Nations international maritime uh group would run the straight
00:17:28
of Hermuz in the sense of a fee that would be split between Iran, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, all the countries
00:17:37
affected. So they don't collect it. The United Nations and international association does. And it's split because
00:17:43
the war affected both parties, not one party. Third and doesn't allow Iran to
00:17:48
control the straight arm which is an international body of water body long-term take the Abraham Accords for the United
00:17:56
States as a party to and do three things and use it which doubles down on America
00:18:03
as a permanent power in the in that part of the world which is the Iran's goal
00:18:08
which is to get us out to build pipelines for Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq, UAE and other countries in that region out
00:18:19
to the straight of Hermuz to the Red Sea or to Oman uh Gulf, the Gulf of Oman that would have a short-term,
00:18:26
medium-term, long-term plan and would also reinforce that the Abraham Accords the United States has is the vehicle for
00:18:33
our Gulf allies and countries that don't become now subjugated to Iran's
00:18:38
blackmail and corrosion uh coercion. To me, that is the most important. Now, I don't think, in fact, I can tell you
00:18:45
this since I haven't seen a single idea where except for the president says,
00:18:49
"Well, Iran's 10 points are pretty good." I can't believe a president of
00:18:52
the United States, a commander-in-chief, a leader of the free world, a person with a military uh instruments that he
00:18:58
has, just said the other party, their term sheet is the term sheet we're going to work off of. Everybody in the
00:19:07
quote unquote art of the deal, you don't use the other side's term sheet. So at
00:19:12
every level I find this uh incredibly dangerous, reckless. What is it? >> What's occurring here? Because his own
00:19:18
people are like he doesn't know. Like what was really interesting about the the New York Times piece is like they're
00:19:23
all running for the hills cuz they're all telling them wasn't me. Wasn't me.
00:19:27
It was him. >> They're pointing fingers at him directly, not or at BB Netanyahu, but
00:19:33
they're certainly trying to say, "I thought it was Farc." That's obviously
00:19:37
from the head of the CIA. I thought it was wrong. Susie Wilds, etc., etc. >> Yeah. No, they're going to let they're
00:19:43
going to let one guy wear the the guy with the duncap gets to keep the duncap at the end of this process. Here's what
00:19:48
I would say to you is there are four tools in your national security uh toolbox. Military power, economic
00:19:57
statecraft, political persuasion, and cultural attraction. And you will assemble them
00:20:05
differently in different parts of the world, in different areas, etc. somewhere in the second term. The now
00:20:12
the president degraded the first three, but in the second term as opposed to the
00:20:17
first term, he's decided military power is the most not only the most important
00:20:23
tool, the tool he's most comfortable, which was not true in the first term. He
00:20:27
is degraded through tariffs. He's degraded through belittling our NATO allies and not consulting them and the
00:20:34
brand of America from a cultural standpoint. So all three of the four tools have been totally drained of any
00:20:42
capacity and a person who was risk averse in the first term is now reduced America's national security to a single
00:20:50
tool and made it the toolbox and what is dangerous about that is obviously the servicemen and women uh are becoming
00:21:01
literally a play toy for the commander-in-chief with no respect for the what he's asking of them who have
00:21:06
volunteered ed to serve the national interest of this country and more importantly the other tools are
00:21:13
atrophying at this very time and we economically politically culturally as you can see the way he's banging out of
00:21:20
NATO are more isolated than leading you can't be a leader if nobody is following
00:21:27
that was the casualty here our NATO allies and our Gulf allies and our Asian allies are not following the United
00:21:35
They're distancing themselves in that case. What is what happens next? Cuz his own people are distancing
00:21:44
themselves. Also, speaking of leaders, >> watch what he does. He's going to blame
00:21:48
somebody. >> He's now going to the next thing is who he tries to blame. And that's kind of a
00:21:53
palace coup type, palace, you know, intrigue game. >> I'm into not that. And I understand the
00:21:59
lore of that. My thing is what do we do to take a generational approach to restore the trust, credibility, and the
00:22:07
capacity of this country? >> Well, how can we with him in the seat? He's in the seat. Whether I mean some of
00:22:14
the seat >> and this is my argument both to Democrats but also Republicans as a
00:22:18
country. >> Mhm. >> We're Americans. There's no reset button
00:22:23
at the Resolute Desk. I try to lay out a different scenario by different parts of
00:22:28
the world. How do you assemble these different tools into different kind of stacking orders of priority? There's no
00:22:34
reset. So the when Carne when Prime Minister Carney in Canada says this is a rupture, you're not getting superlue and
00:22:42
reassembling. We have to earn not only the trust, we have to build our strengths that have been atrophying.
00:22:48
Where is the political uh power? Where's the cultural persuasion? How do we recreate the economic state craft where
00:22:56
again the American economy is central to the world not sidelined and I do think the last 25 years when you look at this
00:23:05
war if you look at covid you look at uh different things that have happened in the last 25 years this will be the era
00:23:11
of supply chain uh and will be known as the era of supply chain you took oil take uh ammonia take the petrochemicals
00:23:20
of the region you take what happened during covid medical gear etc. and the pharmaceutical products to
00:23:25
deal with the vaccines. This is the era of supply chains, little things that hold the entire whether it's the
00:23:33
straight of Hermoose or whether it's the products coming out of the straight of
00:23:37
Hermoose or whether it's medical supplies and vaccines, little things take the entire global economy to a
00:23:44
whole drone. A drone a $50,000 I said this the other day and I'll just repeat
00:23:49
this. You have two countries Mhm. with no navy, but they control both waterways, Ukraine and Iran,
00:23:56
>> without a navy. We have a theory in America's national security being able
00:24:01
to fight two wars simultaneously. >> We're going to have to rewrite it to be
00:24:05
able to fight two different wars simultaneously. One conventional and one unconventional.
00:24:10
>> That's it. He's still president for a long time. Even, you know, you've got
00:24:14
maybe to the midterms where he loses a lot of power >> or three more years. What happened? What
00:24:21
from your if you had to guess what happens next because they're not these people look like they're not going to
00:24:27
keep. You have Megan Kelly saying you. You have people in the cabinet clearly leaking saying not us.
00:24:33
Something's got to give. Or does it? >> Well, >> I mean someone did stop Nixon, right?
00:24:38
Someone walked up to Pennsylvania. I mean >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't want to look. I
00:24:44
didn't listen to the podcast with Senator Tillis. >> Mhm. >> But, you know, I I this is a criticism.
00:24:52
You were the you were the key vote for headsets becoming Secretary of Defense. I'm sorry. Like, you know, okay, fact is
00:24:59
you have a person with a drinking problem and other types of problems who now the head of a military who's
00:25:04
involved right now >> in a military political purge of the military. The greatest turnaround in
00:25:11
American history was the armed forces post Vietnam. I've worked with the the
00:25:16
head of the seventh fleet, head of Indopaccom. These are incredible men and women. Amy and I I just want to side
00:25:22
note. We do a ROC scholarship named after Lisa Franchetti, the former CNO of the Navy. She's an incredible capacity.
00:25:32
Fired out of political retribution. This is stuff you read in China, >> right? and Senator Tillis who obviously
00:25:39
has found his conscience and that's good >> but you confirmed this person that you
00:25:44
knew in your gut >> was not right and I want to say one thing when I was chief of staff I was an
00:25:50
employee when I was senior adviser to president I was an employee how many times I've walked into the Oval Office
00:25:54
daily and said no and here's the consequence of you you're a US senator you're independently elected you're
00:26:01
independently elected congressman you have your own voting card you have your own pin for security what are you doing.
00:26:06
>> Mhm. >> You imagine they'll do it or are they just waiting for the end?
00:26:11
>> I think what's going to happen is the United States Congress is going to flip.
00:26:14
The Senate's 50/50 and you're going to finally have the third branch of government that has been basically in
00:26:19
deep freeze for the last two years. >> I said this once privately couple months, right? That's
00:26:25
>> Yes. I said this privately to a Republican senator. >> I said, "You're going to want a
00:26:29
Democratic president." >> He goes, "Oh, no, no." I said, "Yeah,
00:26:32
the reason is you put your manhood in a lock box and you're finally going to
00:26:35
take it out in about three years from now, right? That's what's going to
00:26:37
happen. You I can't believe these individuals who know better and say it privately under cloaked force of course
00:26:43
and what will happen is elections have, as to quote my good friend and my former
00:26:49
boss, President Obama, >> elections have consequences. Yes, we got X months till November.
00:26:56
>> Republicans doesn't hear the hear the sound of the footbeat coming. You saw
00:27:00
that in Wisconsin. You're going to see it in Indiana. Saw it in North Carolina
00:27:04
the other day. You saw it in Georgia. >> And the fact is you're going to have the
00:27:07
third branch of government, co-equal branch, finally exert its responsibility. >> You are you are it's just it's a matter
00:27:14
of time. We're going to move over this. But I would agree with you. They're
00:27:16
suddenly appearing on my podcast. So, you know what I mean? Like suddenly they're like I do I wanted is so
00:27:23
frustrating. Take the take a look at the center of Louisiana. Mhm. >> You confirmed a guy, Health and Human
00:27:29
Services, Kennedy. You as a doctor, you know, was wrong. >> The president turns around, flips on
00:27:34
you, and and you try to do that to encourage favor or, you know, bring favor to yourself, and he's going to
00:27:41
mess with your reelection, and you knew Kennedy was not right. Senator Tillis, I'm glad he's speaking up. I'm I'm glad
00:27:49
he found his voice, >> but when your vote was needed, >> Mhm. >> he decided, you decided to go somewhere.
00:27:55
out. Maybe you're making up for lost time, but the rest of us, most importantly,
00:27:59
>> the men and women in uniform >> have to deal with a secretary of defense.
00:28:03
>> And so now therefore, I mean, he certainly did the I hate to use the term
00:28:07
killshot to gnome, but he did. He did. And some people are like, it's too late.
00:28:11
I'm like, but he did it, so he has to keep doing it is what you're saying. I
00:28:14
like that. >> Yes. >> Yeah. He has to keep and not only have to say that, you have to work with
00:28:19
others to finally uh get your vote and your voice to kind of line. Your vote was not where your voice is or your
00:28:26
conscience. >> Yeah, reach down and grab it. Okay, Rahm, let's go on a quick break. When we
00:28:29
come back, Democrats keep the momentum going with another string of election wins.
00:28:34
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mongodb.com/build. Rom, we're back. Democrats notched their biggest shift yet in the House special
00:29:22
election, dramatically narrowing the gap in Georgia's 14th. Trump carried the
00:29:26
district by 37 points in 2024, but even in the race, the margin shranked around 12 points, a major swing, even though
00:29:31
the Republicans took the win. Democrats also expanded their majority on Wisconsin's Supreme Court, very
00:29:36
significant, from 4 to 3 to 5 to two, and that'll last for for a decade, I think, for something like that or a very
00:29:42
long time. You recently wrote a piece in the Wall Street Journal titled How Democrats can use their coming majority.
00:29:47
You say investigations of Trump won't satisfy voters and that energy be better
00:29:50
spent on a positive agenda. You and I have talked about this. Talk about, you know, your ideal plan. You just sort of
00:29:56
vaguely mention it up to the midterms and assuming they have a strong showing without any um nonsense from Trump or
00:30:04
any hijinks or whatever he's trying to do, but it doesn't seem like it's going
00:30:08
to work. Um in recent days, over 70 lawmakers have said Trump's cabinet needs to invoke the 25th Amendment. Um,
00:30:14
>> uh, that's he's supposed to be in a coma apparently for that, but we'll we'll
00:30:18
see. Um, I don't I don't see them doing that. They can hardly speak up in any
00:30:22
way. Talk about the distraction of it because one of the things is if you spend all your time investigating and
00:30:28
certain people, by the way, should be investigated for corruption. >> No, let me let me be really clear,
00:30:34
etc. Yeah. >> As I said in that piece, I said there's a difference between corruption and
00:30:38
dishonesty. I'm for absolute investigation of all the corruption. This is crony capitalism run a muck.
00:30:47
People trading on inside information. They abnormalize corruption 100% for that. I the c you cross the line when
00:30:56
it's all about retribution, vindication, and not addressing what I think is not
00:31:02
only the affirmative agenda, but I do believe the their corruption. I've said
00:31:06
it two years ago. That's the backdrop. So, I'm 100% for what did Christine
00:31:12
Gnome do at DHS? I'm 100% for everything the inspector generals have reported and
00:31:17
all the type of corruption both inside outside members of family >> or the Trump kids
00:31:23
100% for that. >> Don't get caught in a game of politics of retribution where then the people go
00:31:29
it's just more Washington. >> Right. >> Now, on the affirm I think on the
00:31:32
affirmative and this was part of that piece. If you go back to the presidentials of both President Clinton
00:31:39
and President Obama first terms '08 and 1992, what George Mitchell does in 1990,
00:31:45
forcing President Bush to raise taxes and break his pledge on read my lips, and what we did in forcing Bush to veto
00:31:55
the children's health insurance initiative in 2007 sets up 1992 Bill Clinton and sets up President Obama
00:32:04
2008. 2027. I look at the uh kind of landscape of all the issues from minimum wage to
00:32:15
predictive markets to health care cost control andor a rateayers bill of rights. I lay out a number of piece
00:32:22
ideas in that piece. you now a part of this politically is determining you have the Senate or not is get a bill on the
00:32:30
desk that one creates divisions within the Republican party and two either force the president like Bush
00:32:39
does in 1990 signs a bill or vetos a bill like President Bush does in 2007 on the
00:32:48
children's health insurance program that creates divisions inside the Republican
00:32:52
party and advance your agenda that you're ready to take and secure the future. So, I do think
00:33:00
Democrat, let's just just fast forward. Democrats win both the House and the
00:33:04
Senate. What they do in 2027 will be as determinative as who we nominate in 2028. My view, this is mine,
00:33:15
is go to those predictive markets and put a piece of legislation on the president's desk that ban all members,
00:33:24
Congress, Senate, executive branch, judicial branch, staff, family from participating in the predictive markets
00:33:31
and that there's a division of the criminal market. Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. And the reason is and first of
00:33:38
all, all that can be done by executive order. >> Mhm. president will not do it because
00:33:41
his two sons are investors in it >> and you drive right there because the Republicans are there, independent
00:33:47
voters are there, the president of the United States is not there. And I would take that bill and run it right down
00:33:52
through one end of Pennsylvania Avenue to the other and put it on his desk because everybody and I can tell you
00:33:58
this from Lacrosse, Wisconsin to Franklin, New Hampshire to Abbyville's partner,
00:34:04
>> everybody in their gut >> knows that these prediction markets are
00:34:08
being played and manipulated with inside information. And yes, and people other people are putting their lives at risk
00:34:14
while little Nepo babies in Palm Beach are making money. Most importantly, Don Jr. and the rest of the family and
00:34:21
Lutnik's kids and Wickoff's kids. Put it on his desk. Make him pick his wealth or
00:34:27
the American people's democracy and political and economic. >> I already know the answer to that.
00:34:34
>> I mean, you ask me that's what I would do because you were talking about things
00:34:37
that you wish would happen probably won't pass. You should do like all like $25 minimum wage, whatever it happens to
00:34:43
be. It doesn't have to win it. You just have to make a stance is what you're
00:34:47
talking about right now. >> In 1990, in 1990, President Bush signs the bill. It actually does help reduce
00:34:54
the deficit, but it creates Pap Buchanan and a Republican revolt. And 20 Republican senators support that, but
00:35:03
the other 25 do not. In 2007 when we do the children's health insurance bill,
00:35:09
President Bush 43 vetos it, but 60 Republicans in the House and Senate align themselves with Democrat. What
00:35:17
brings us together? What divides the other side? And whether it's signing or
00:35:23
vetoing as I would say to quote that great philosopher, when you get to a fork in the road, take it.
00:35:29
>> And that's what you want to do to the Republicans, >> right? And you want to constantly be
00:35:33
saying what you're for. And that says what you're for >> and even if you fail,
00:35:36
>> says what you're for, >> who you're going to fight for >> and what the other side
00:35:41
>> is willing to do. And I think this president >> is running a crony capitalist system.
00:35:47
It's from everywhere. It's how much you pay and how much he gets. And what you
00:35:51
want to do is drive your car right to that division point inside the Republican party. And the
00:35:59
Republicans know they're not in on this prediction market in a sense the way the Trump kids are. And the
00:36:06
president and I would also taunt them. >> Sign an executive order. >> Yeah. Do something.
00:36:11
>> No, Mr. President, you signed all these other executive orders. I mean, yes,
00:36:14
here's one that you can do, >> right? >> He won't do it. And so drive right
00:36:17
there. >> What do you make of these shifts in in the the Democrats have done rather well
00:36:22
all over the place, right? Even including in Palm Beach. Speaking of Palm Beach, no babies, they now have a
00:36:26
Democratic. >> I actually think one thing that slightly uh didn't get the coverage. I mean, I
00:36:31
went up to Wisconsin 6 weeks ago for the Supreme Court for Rebecca Cook in the third district, Southwest Corner. In
00:36:39
Wisconsin, battleground state. First of all, the Supreme Court candidate does better than any of the other two from a
00:36:48
year ago. The Democrats in Wisconsin win the important county outside of Milwaukee.
00:36:54
That's the Republican base that counters the Milwaukee vote. We now have the
00:36:58
county executives. The Supreme Court nominee in the third congressional district, the southwest corner where
00:37:03
Lacrosse is, etc. that Ron K used to represent and is a Republican there that Trump won. The Supreme Court Democrat,
00:37:11
not Democratic, but the progressive candidate takes 57%. Donald Trump won that with overwhelming
00:37:19
amount. That tells you if you win that seat, you're winning the majority. So
00:37:25
when you look at Wisconsin at the top all the way down and all the races between, it's a unbelievable
00:37:33
victory and it says the same thing. >> It's the independence. >> Massive energy in the Democratic vote
00:37:39
base and Republican turnout depressed. >> Mhm. >> The two the election in North Carolina
00:37:46
>> Mhm. when Donald Trump uh endorsed a state senate majority leader, the most
00:37:53
powerful Republican, he loses the Republican primary. >> Mhm. >> That was more important than Mara Lago.
00:37:59
I get the value of Mara Lago. It's kind of I get it. But the fact is power over
00:38:05
the Republican primary voters, >> right? >> You want to call liberation day, that's
00:38:09
liberation day. So all you Republican congressmen and senators, Senator Tillis, that you were scared of your
00:38:14
shadow for the last four year year and four years ago, you don't have to be scared of your shadow,
00:38:19
>> right? What about Texas? Obviously, that's >> Well, now in the Senate in Texas, I
00:38:25
think that you have a Republican primary that ends up it doesn't matter who who
00:38:29
wins in one level, they're going to both be a weakened candidate for the general
00:38:33
election. >> Mhm. >> That's what I think. Can I you know and I happen to one thing I would also say
00:38:38
to my fellow Democrats >> when you look at the healthc care for President Obama
00:38:46
>> or the IRA the clim the climate bill under President Biden under the healthc care bill. Senator
00:38:54
Nelson from Nebraska helps us pass that. It's the 60th vote and the senator from West Virginia
00:39:04
helps pass the IRA. If you don't win in purple to red states as a Democrat, we're not going to get
00:39:15
the type of economic and political legis and social legislation we want. The two
00:39:20
most significant pieces of legislation Democrats passed in the last 20 years, they clinched the vote
00:39:27
>> with a Republican, >> with a senator from a state that is not quote unquote safe blue. So winning in
00:39:33
Ohio, winning in North Carolina, winning in Texas, winning in Iowa, >> winning in places Democrats have not
00:39:41
presidentially won >> is how you secure the type of legislation. >> Interesting. And I just met Telerico. I
00:39:48
call him the baby Jesus. Anyway, what one of the things, of course, look, Democrats are not
00:39:54
slathering himself in perfection right now. Um, as Trump waited into the California governor's race this week by
00:40:01
endorsing former Fox News host Steve Hilton, who I know very well, actually, mostly as a husband of someone I know
00:40:07
very well, but I actually know Steve. My favorite Steve thing is he was lecturing
00:40:11
me on populism and the elites when he was staying at the Bair Hotel and I was like I can't afford this place
00:40:17
my friend like and you're telling me about like elites. Um anyway I he's a
00:40:22
funny guy actually. There might be um good news for Democrats the the the Trump um backing there. But Democrats
00:40:28
have been worrying about a doomsday scenario with the state's jungle primary
00:40:31
and people don't know there it's there's there's not primaries is who the top two
00:40:36
are. If the two GOP candidates, Hilton and Sheriff uh Chad Biano, and ex exactly what he sounds like, um first
00:40:43
and second in the primary, Democrats would be locked out in the general election. It's a concern. And there's
00:40:48
eight Democrats in the race with no clear front runner. Um but by consolidating G support behind Hilton,
00:40:54
Trump may have helped reduce the chances. And I've noticed both Jane Vaugh and Ro Con are backing the
00:40:59
billionaire, which is unusual, Tom Styer. Um uh which is fine. like all the left went crazy, but I'm like, well,
00:41:06
he's he's he's different. He's he's not like there's he's not Mark Zuckerberg.
00:41:11
Let me just be clear. >> But um that said, there's all kinds of, you know, issues there um um with with
00:41:18
what's happening there. And you've got, you know, a number of candidates that
00:41:21
each have a little chunk. It's not like one has the biggest chunk. So, I'm
00:41:25
sitting there, I'm like, where's Nancy Pelosi hitting heads or where's Nuome or
00:41:29
what's what is happening there? And you I'm sure you've spoken to them. If
00:41:33
you're running the Democratic party >> mean what's happening in the Democratic
00:41:36
>> party. What has to happen there in order to like knock people out? They don't
00:41:40
seem to be leaving any of them. It looks like >> Yeah. I don't I Well, that you know,
00:41:45
California is not >> Chicago, >> right? >> We would find something wrong with their
00:41:50
signatures and knock them out that way. >> Yeah. >> You're not getting on the ballot on this
00:41:55
one. You want another race? That's evidence. You know, uh I don't you know
00:41:58
I have no idea what I think the leadership of the party has stood back. I part of me wonders whether Kla Harris
00:42:05
thinks again like maybe I made a mistake. I should have gone for that office etc. Given when you look at the
00:42:10
field I think this is a jump ball. You got a uh I look at it from a distance but about four candidates all kind of
00:42:19
hovering within two points from each other. And so my guess is the leadership of the party doesn't want to put their
00:42:25
thumb on the scale prefer looking like they don't have the leadership that they
00:42:29
thought they did. >> So what happens? It could be. Is that a bad thing for the
00:42:35
>> you know I I uh I I do buy the conventional wisdom >> that the president's endorsement of uh
00:42:44
Mr. is a kiss of death. >> Mhm. And I think that will uh bear out uh and I what happens
00:42:52
eventually there's a co coalescing that trigger hasn't happened yet but I
00:42:58
instinctively believe it will happen well how the papers endorse what something will happen that will tri that
00:43:05
will be a conversion that will convert the moment it will be a catalytic conversion of the moment and then there
00:43:12
will be a coalesing around a singular or two candidates that catapult to the front of the class
00:43:17
>> possibly. Do you remember the movie Face Off where they're all pointing guns at each other?
00:43:22
That's what it feels like. Someone's got to put the gun down, you know, and then
00:43:25
the the pigeons fly. >> It's a little early for that, but you'll get that.
00:43:29
>> You'll get that. You'll get Is there any candidate you think >> will emerge of all those? I'm not close
00:43:34
enough to uh to uh I'm not close enough to that race to I mean in the back of my
00:43:40
head I'm it will be a Democrat >> and you know there's 90% of them agree
00:43:45
on the same thing so it won't uh matter. Now it could I could you know obviously
00:43:50
this is electoral politics so it could be totally wrong. Mhm. >> Uh but so far I believe that there will
00:43:57
be a coalescing at the very end at least around one if not two candidates and the
00:44:01
rest will really >> be seen as a wasted vote. Um the one good news is uh the president's
00:44:07
endorsement is going to uh force the Democrats to kind of shape up real quickly.
00:44:12
>> Shape up real quickly. Yeah. Interesting. It's a real it's a real
00:44:14
wrinkled Steve is like are you kidding me? I mean, my thing my thing is >> Mhm.
00:44:19
>> look, take Iowa and take Ohio and then take Florida and Georgia. And I'll tell you why on those is
00:44:28
>> Ohio. The Democratic nominee for governor, which was in Governor DeWine's
00:44:33
public health official, she's ahead. In Iowa, you have an open senate, also an
00:44:38
open governor. And the a state auditor in Iowa is in a very strong position. uh been elected twice already statewide for
00:44:47
the governor's race and we're going to have a pretty competitive uh nominee I
00:44:51
think for the Senate and I think what's happening because of what the president
00:44:55
did to the rural economy the corn soybean wheat farmers >> business and the gone out of business
00:45:02
the rural economy is really hurting this war has really touched them fertilizers
00:45:06
etc >> you're going to see something in the Midwest in the prairie states that's
00:45:10
going to come and bite the Republicans right where they need to be bitten and kicked
00:45:14
Yeah. >> Then you go down to Georgia and Florida. In both cases in the Democratic primary
00:45:22
are former Republican- elected officials who've decided the Republican party
00:45:25
under Donald Trump's not their home anymore. The Democrats are. Whether they
00:45:29
get out of the primary or not, I'm not sure. But there is a 10 to 12% of Republicans and I've also seen this
00:45:36
going all over the country who don't identify with Donald Trump. Not sure about the Democrats. They all,
00:45:45
you know, they say way too left for them culturally, politically, economically. But you have a fraction of what we I
00:45:52
call traditional Republicans that rather than a look at this election or the future elections as transactional,
00:46:00
we should look as transformational. They have chosen those two candidates in Florida and and Georgia to see
00:46:08
themselves and their future politically more at home with the Democratic party than Republicans.
00:46:15
>> At least for now. >> That tells you the beginning, right? Well, that is the first steps
00:46:19
>> towards a realignment of coalitions. >> And we as a party have to look at these
00:46:24
elections, right? >> I'll give you one analysis. I Okay. Because we're going to move on and
00:46:29
stuff. Yeah. Go ahead. >> Okay. I'll be really quick. In 2020, you had what I call Joe Biden Republicans.
00:46:35
And the real question was, were we going to govern with the idea of making that transformational or transactional? And
00:46:42
one of the mistakes I think made in the Biden administration was rather than try
00:46:45
to unite the country, a lot time was spent trying to unite the party >> and we lost the bigger narrative in that
00:46:51
process. >> Right. That's a very fair point. Um, I'm going to move on to some business stuff.
00:46:55
Um, lots going on in this area of AI of something that you've written about a
00:46:59
lot and you and I have talked about social media and everything else. Now, in this case, Elon Musk wants to have
00:47:04
OpenAI CEO Sam Alman and President Greg Brockman removed from the company as part of a case claiming the company
00:47:09
deceived him to donating $38 million. I was there when that happened, actually. Meanwhile, OpenAI sent a letter to the
00:47:15
California and Delaware AGs alleging Musk has been working to undermine OpenAI through various attacks,
00:47:20
including by working with Mark Zuckerberg. I mean, this is true. Um, Serge jury selection begins in this
00:47:26
high-profile trial where the tech is sort of eating each other. Like, it's a
00:47:30
really interesting time. And while we're talking about AI, hopefulness among AI
00:47:34
among young people has dropped to 18% from 27% last year. You're welcome every
00:47:39
at tech. I'm I'm glad to help it do that. Almost a third of young adults uh
00:47:43
say AI made them feel angry. Um, and speaking of Elang, shortly after he filed his SpaceX IPO last week,
00:47:49
speculation is growing about a merger with Tesla. Um, I've been saying this would happen. Let's listen to a clip
00:47:55
from last April. It looks like he's not interested in making cars anymore or
00:47:59
he's making other things. He wants to shift Tesla and I I think you're going
00:48:02
to merge XAI X and this together in a big on the whole. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Yeah. I had already predicted that he
00:48:11
would put Twitter into Grock and then they would put it into SpaceX and it made sense for a lot of thing. Um, so
00:48:17
>> there's a whole new meaning of rollup. >> Yeah. And actually there there there's a
00:48:21
story in Reuters they're going to possibly make a cheaper EV which he should have done four years ago but
00:48:25
that's another issue. Talk a little bit that's the only answer for Tesla given
00:48:29
how the numbers are declining. He has to either have a great car or he has which
00:48:33
he's not seemingly interested in a really great car that sort of wins everything or he has to merge them all
00:48:38
together and then he can hide the losses pretty easily in this spectacular IPO that's going to happen with SpaceX. Um
00:48:45
so which is hugely overvalued but that's all right. people are going to buy into
00:48:49
it. So talk a little bit about what's happening here in AI because there's a
00:48:52
whole shift of people not trusting these people. You know, it's sort of like a
00:48:56
pox on all their houses. Which side do you want to pick? Altman or Musk or these people or David Sachs who's like
00:49:03
pushing the president even as the numbers are declining? >> I think there's three categories that I
00:49:10
kind of take back from this week. One is the tech bros all basically urinating on
00:49:17
each other's leg telling you the other guy it's raining outside and Americans
00:49:21
aren't going to stand for sit on the sidelines literally >> while Alman and Daario and Alam Musk all
00:49:29
play and fight with each other like little kids in the sandbox without adult supervision. The second
00:49:36
is both open AI and anthropic withhold product because it's too risky to the
00:49:43
>> right. I was going to mention that too. These are these are new products
00:49:46
>> that they have coming that they're worried about security issues and now
00:49:50
they brought a coalition together to try to patch things but quite dangerous. But
00:49:54
go ahead. And then the third thing which is whether forget the motivation for say
00:50:00
Sam Alman puts uh out a kind of updated AI New Deal social contract to compete in my but again I shouldn't do that
00:50:12
because I said don't put aside the motivation with Daario own's view which is this is going to be
00:50:20
so disruptive we have to figure out not only how the product and the and the industry, but also how we include the
00:50:28
American people in this. So, it's a net win rather than three guys win and 333
00:50:34
million lose. Those three boxes are they're all overlapping. Now, I step back also as a former mayor
00:50:43
and chief of staff to a president in massive changing times. the government is set up to kind of set up a
00:50:50
regulation, wait 30 years to see if it work, which is an industrial model, and you're good. You're in the post analog,
00:50:57
postdigital into something totally different. And I do think when you look at Daro and and Open AI deciding not to
00:51:06
put a product out, forget the boys acting like boys, they're they are begging
00:51:16
for oversight and rules and they're making it up as they go. The government needs industry leaders, academics,
00:51:27
and comments in real time to be making decisions in real way. We can't rely on
00:51:33
two CEOs social conscience to say I'm withholding a product because it's
00:51:37
dangerous. While I appreciate that they did that, that is not how this is going to work. So, we're going to have to have
00:51:43
a a board that is required to update its rules and regs and oversight in real time with an industry that's changing at
00:51:53
a pace the government's not used to. There's going to have to be principles
00:51:57
that guide it. Now, is a threat from China real? >> 100%. from a competitive standpoint
00:52:03
>> which I find one side note >> we're a country with a lot of social
00:52:09
whether you think it should be expanded social insurance our country is fearful from AI China has none of the social
00:52:16
infrastructure underneath it so if you fail to get support healthcare unemployment insurance etc and yet
00:52:22
they're hugely optimistic about AI >> the countries are in different places
00:52:27
given the support that the public sector and I find that just as a polit as a >> they do a lot more monitoring of it. The
00:52:34
c the government does much more monitoring than we do. >> Well, there's a confidence since
00:52:38
somebody's going to control and that you're not going to be left out on the
00:52:42
sideline. So to me, we're going to have to have a real and I do think this regardless of whatever my personal
00:52:51
the two Sam Alman's kind of social contract Dario's view that uh from anthropic that
00:53:01
we need a kind of a new agreement which is the difference between kind of capital versus labor but how AI will b
00:53:08
what I say democratize the benefits of AI to more people from both skills but also jobs and economic opportunity and
00:53:17
if you don't the American people are going to data center rebell you know re
00:53:23
rebellion against it's just minor compared to what's going to happen >> and the government's going to have to
00:53:28
step in and do this from an executive branch standpoint >> but the tech the tech people are still
00:53:33
aside from those guys like David Sachs was like how dare you do this this is our greatest thing and is pushing Trump
00:53:39
even as this is happening and he has been integral to what I think has been a disaster for the tech industry in terms
00:53:45
of their imagery, right? They look like villains now. They're villains now. They're the villains.
00:53:50
>> Well, they are babies, >> right? I mean, they're they're villains
00:53:54
and they're actually also they want to take all the benefit and you're just
00:53:59
going to live in their world. Now, I'm sorry, that's not how a democratic
00:54:04
capitalist system works. There is real opportunity. Look, given the competitiveness with
00:54:10
China, this is going to be one one like fusion, like quantum computing, etc. like life sciences, one of the dominant
00:54:17
uh technologies of the future, but it's not going to be three winners and 333
00:54:21
million losers. That is not how we're keeping score. >> I think that in the end of the day, like
00:54:26
everywhere else, >> industry likes regulations because it sets rules, guidelines, and principles.
00:54:33
Correct. when you go back to what's happening like insider training >> that for the fact that businesses are
00:54:40
not calling that out this is going to come back to bite you right in the butt. >> That's what I said. I you know it's
00:54:45
interesting when I saw those statistics and then David Sachs yammering on about it. I was like you know David sit the
00:54:50
down because the American people don't like what you're doing. So and Trump is stupid to listen to.
00:54:56
>> What? >> You have dropped the fbomb three times on that side. >> I know. I know. I know. I know. You can
00:55:01
do it anytime. That's more your brother's thing. That's more your your
00:55:04
elderly brother's thing. >> You will never find me ever saying it publicly.
00:55:09
>> I know. >> In my whole career. Do not do that. >> I know you don't. That I'm just telling
00:55:12
you that's your brother. I have a tape. Even though my mother Even though my
00:55:15
mother is deaf, she'll hear it and come and grab me. >> I have a voice of your brother saying,
00:55:20
"Caris Swisser, you." So, I'm going to keep it for the rest of I'm making
00:55:25
thinking of making it my way. >> That was probably a term of endearment. >> It was. It was. It's because he didn't
00:55:29
invite me to some party. Anyway, I don't want to go to his party. It doesn't
00:55:32
matter. But happy birthday. Um, all right, Rahm, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about very
00:55:37
quickly RFK getting into the podcast game. Rahm, we're back with just one more quick story. I regret to inform you
00:55:43
that RFK Jr. is launching a podcast. You know, it's trouble. Now, the pod will
00:55:47
focus on telling the truth, especially when it's uncomfortable in confronting
00:55:50
the spiritual malaise. Let's watch a clip of the announcement. I guess it's
00:55:54
not quite as bad as his as his strange porn movie with Kid Rock, but let's go.
00:56:00
If we want a healthy nation, we have to confront the lies that have made us spiritually, morally, and physically
00:56:06
sick. The time for half measures is now over. We're launching a new era of radical transparency in government here
00:56:13
at HHS. I hope you'll join us in our mission to make America healthy again. >> Oh my goodness. And of course, just as
00:56:20
there is news in the Washington Post that they're trying to suppress a CDC report that vaccines are good for you,
00:56:25
uh, COVID vaccine. So, just transparent >> gives a whole new me. Yeah. Yeah. I was
00:56:30
going to say it gives a whole new meaning to what transparency is not. >> Yeah. So, is he just preparing for his
00:56:35
next career when he gets bounced or what what is happening? And I hope are you co-hosting his podcast?
00:56:39
>> First of all, two things. One is he's preparing that, but it's also to uh
00:56:43
airbrush his past. He has been an absolute horrible secretary of health and human services on every measure
00:56:51
>> outside of what's happened with opiates and he has nothing to do with it. United
00:56:55
States. >> Best friend to measles is what I call him. Best friend to measles.
00:56:58
>> Yes. measles, the lack of confidence in the American CDC, our other types of our
00:57:04
life sciences, our capacities, our health care cost, everything that he has touched in the great tradition of this
00:57:11
administration is broken. It needed repair. It needed to be strengthened. And across the board, you cannot walk
00:57:17
from a single agency or department. And he's been the kind of a point of despair. It's the largest domestic
00:57:23
agency in the United States, health and human services. and he has made a mess of it and the people he's appointed have
00:57:31
made a mess of it from CDC to NIH to what Medicare Medicaid >> and they have done nothing
00:57:39
>> to measurably improve the health of the American people >> and >> I will say having dealt with this as
00:57:45
both chief of staff but more importantly when I helped pass the ACA or President
00:57:49
Clinton's children's health insurance but as mayor of the city of Chicago 8%
00:57:53
of our workforce was driving 70% of our healthare costs around chronic illnesses, heart, obesity, etc. He could
00:58:02
have focused on something that actually moved the needle in both dropping health
00:58:07
care costs and improving public health. >> Yeah. >> And rather than bring the country
00:58:12
together like everything in this administration, never lose an opportunity to divide Americans. They
00:58:18
have they have from the president to his cabinet have found m multiple opportunities
00:58:23
>> to divide people and and literally repressed examples where they could actually bring people together of
00:58:29
different political views to work on a common issue >> and shame on doctors in the Senate who
00:58:34
voted for him. I mean I just the Republican would >> well that gets back to you know Senator
00:58:39
Ga Senator Cassidy is going to pay the price like Senator Tillis >> for having basically taking your
00:58:44
conscience and put it in a lock box when the vote came and you knew what was right. You took the polit politically
00:58:51
expedient case and I don't want to draw this to myself but since I'm on I'll
00:58:54
draw it to myself. I can't tell you how many times I used to walk into Clinton's
00:58:57
office or President Obama's oh I said you're out of your mind if you do this
00:59:01
this is the Christ. I'm going to let you lay it out to you. You'll have a debate
00:59:04
about it, but understand the consequences of this. I was an employee. Get out of here. This You're an
00:59:11
independent US senator. I was a congressman. I was You got elected. >> You have a responsibility
00:59:17
to what the >> trust has told me, you know what a martyr is? He's dead. Like he was he was
00:59:23
like, you can't you can't operate from a position of dead. And that I still was
00:59:27
like, I don't care. Be dead then. >> You know what I mean? Cuz you'll you'll
00:59:32
say that politically. Yeah, >> he may say that politically, >> Mhm. >> but that vote gave a license to a guy to
00:59:38
do a political purge of the greatest military forces this country did, the greatest turnaround this country did.
00:59:43
I've worked with these men and women at all levels. The amount of dedication,
00:59:48
the amount of understanding of politics, culture, history, working diplomatically, working militarily.
00:59:55
Hex doesn't hold a candle any of the people. >> Same thing with RFK. So, you won't be
01:00:00
listening to his podcast. In other words, all right. Uh, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
01:00:05
Okay, Rahm, let's hear prediction. There's so many things. Keep it brief.
01:00:09
We got just a little time. I want to play one thing at the end from NASA um from the Artemis. But what is your
01:00:15
prediction? >> Prediction that nobody will be held accountable for playing the games in the
01:00:20
prediction market with inside information. The CFTC, the SEC, the Justice Department not only are asleep,
01:00:27
they're in on the scam. >> Nobody for now. Nobody for now under this administration
01:00:34
until they're held accountable. >> And >> can I do one thing personal?
01:00:37
>> Sure, please. Absolutely. >> All right. My son runs a 2hour 39minut
01:00:43
marathon. He did it in Boston. >> Amazing. >> He's going to run the Boston Marathon
01:00:46
again. I think he'll have a personal best. >> Oh, >> he ran a 2-hour 39 uh which was
01:00:50
incredible >> in uh marathon. >> I think I think this coming Boston he's
01:00:56
running again. He's going to get a personal best. Oh, that's very >> a prediction, a hope and a wish. And I'm
01:01:02
very proud of him. >> Oh, that is amazing. You should run with him. You should run with him. No, I
01:01:06
couldn't do it. >> I'm not that. No, that Amy runs marathons. As I always say, we're going
01:01:11
to have to do a test because I don't know who your father is. I have no idea
01:01:14
about this man. >> The kid's an incredible runner. >> Uhhuh. Okay. And that I want to leave a
01:01:20
thing of hope. Speaking of hope, that's wonderful. I one of the things I did
01:01:23
feel I think Americans really start really watch this Artemis flight done by NASA. It was sort of a wonderful moment.
01:01:29
All all Americans it was the numbers are quite high which is wonderful. Um NASA and they did a great job on social media
01:01:35
and this crew is just so wonderful. Men hugging and crying and saying wonderful things and laughing and it just has been
01:01:43
a real it's a wonderful group of people up there and it sort of represents the
01:01:47
best of America in that regard. Kind and good-hearted. NASA is preparing for the
01:01:52
return of Artemis 2 after this historic moon flyby. These pictures are delightful and amazing and astonishing
01:01:57
and it also makes you appreciate Earth. So, let's listen to a clip from crew
01:02:01
member Christina Cook after the spacecraft passed by the moon. I thought it was just one of the most beautiful
01:02:07
things. Let's listen. >> We will explore. We will build. We will build ships. We will visit again. We
01:02:14
will construct science outposts. We will drive rovers. We will do radio astronomy. We will found companies. We
01:02:21
will bolster industry. We will inspire, but ultimately we will always choose Earth. We will always choose each other.
01:02:30
>> Just what you were talking about, Rahm Maker, the head of NASA. >> I actually think it was a a perfect
01:02:37
antitheical spirit to what you're seeing uh out of this administration. >> We'll choose Earth and we'll choose each
01:02:44
other >> in a period where we did a war of choice. Yeah, it was a act and it
01:02:49
touched. Look, I do think there's this yearning out there to actually not see our fellow
01:02:56
Americans as the enemy or the it could be an opponent but from a political standoint but it's not your enemy and I
01:03:03
thought she touched that human conspirator and also most importantly for uh the United States that's
01:03:09
something we can unify around I I don't know about you I get on the you know
01:03:14
open my iPad first thing I do is see the pictures they're sending >> they're beautiful
01:03:18
>> and uh look at the I looked at the earth from that eclipse photo which I Mhm.
01:03:22
>> was most beautiful >> shot. And then there was also complimentary the web telescope put out
01:03:29
new pictures of the galaxy. >> Yeah. >> And it's just it it it there's it
01:03:34
kindles and it's and it has that little light that illuminates in you of something that
01:03:39
>> uh you can as you said hopeful, proud and optimistic about >> and I thought her message was uh just
01:03:45
>> beautiful. It's a beautiful >> family like the popes. >> We have a beautiful planet. Anyway, we
01:03:50
want to hear from you. to send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to
01:03:54
nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 8551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week,
01:04:00
my new CNN show, Caris Wisher Wants to Live Forever, is premiering this Saturday, April 11th at 9:00 p.m.
01:04:06
Eastern. Scott is actually going to interview me at the premiere in New York tonight. And also, your brother Zeke is
01:04:11
in it, and he's hysterical. He and I are wearing Colonial Garb together, and we
01:04:16
had a ball. Um he he worked for the season. He's he's he's really good. It's
01:04:21
a making of a star. Anyway, you're all you're all fascinating. The Emanuals. Um
01:04:25
anyway, thank you so much for joining me today. There's never a dull moment.
01:04:30
That's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe
01:04:34
to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott will be back from wherever the hell he's gone. Uh and
01:04:39
we're excited to have him back. But all the guest hosts, Kristen Sultz, Anderson
01:04:43
Rom, uh and Anthony Scaramucci have been amazing. And I really appreciate it.