00:00:00
See, we've had a good discussion about this. We're still getting dragged online
00:00:03
and I get dragged with him. Thanks, Scott. Let's get to the news. Uh, first, Tucker
00:00:15
Carlson, one of Trump's biggest supporters over the last few years, now says he regrets helping uh get Trump
00:00:21
elected. He offered an apology on the latest episode of the Tucker Carlson show while speaking with his uh brother
00:00:26
Buckley, a former Trump speech writer. Uh uh Tucker and Buckley. Oh my goodness. Let's uh let's uh listen.
00:00:33
>> You wrote speeches for him. I campaigned for him. I mean, we're implicated in
00:00:36
this for sure. >> Yes. >> It's not enough to say, "Well, I changed
00:00:40
my mind." Or like, "Oh, this is bad. I'm out." It's like in very small ways, but
00:00:46
in real ways, you and me and millions of people like us are the reason this is happening right now.
00:00:52
>> Yes. So, I do think it's like a moment to wrestle with our own consciences.
00:00:59
Uh, you know, we'll be tormented by it for a long time. I will be. And and I
00:01:05
want to say I'm sorry for misleading people in it was not intentional. That's
00:01:09
all I'll say. >> So, Tucker might be tormented. Is he trying to pull a Joe Rogan? He's going
00:01:14
back to Trump to to when he needs something. I mean, he's done this before in those emails during that tri the the
00:01:22
um the the uh the trial that Fox had and lost. Uh he would call them demonic. He
00:01:28
was he's been here and I don't think Trump has been anything but explicit
00:01:32
about what he is for a very long time. So I'd love to talk about this and the
00:01:37
idea of redemption like that Rogan was trying to do it and of course the minute he gave him his psychedelics he shows
00:01:44
right up and how and Green is one you know you got a lot of push back for for your Ben Shapiro comments this week this
00:01:52
week I >> not my comments my interview >> your interview excuse me but also what
00:01:56
you said about him and stuff so these people seem to be moving this way in a way that's is it real is it not
00:02:04
How much should we hold people responsible for the things they've said previously? Green has been terrible. Ben
00:02:12
has been many things are not the stuff, especially around trans and people of color has been repugnant to me at least.
00:02:19
Um, gay people. >> But you would put Ben and Tucker in the same category. >> I put them I put them all in a different
00:02:25
way because I think a lot of what Ben has said previously is really if I read it I mean I can read it to you if you'd
00:02:31
like. I want to talk about the bigger idea of giving people space. They are obviously Tucker is and Rogan is and
00:02:39
Theo Vaughn is and Marjorie Taylor Green are trying even Megan Kelly on this sort
00:02:44
of redemption tour in a weird way. And I don't I not necessarily believe it, but
00:02:49
I want to talk about this issue of when you let people say I made a mistake a couple years ago when I said this
00:02:54
heinous thing. Forgive me. That which is what Tucker's asking for here. Look, this is sort of do as I say, not
00:03:02
as I do because I think the right thing is be careful shaming people for saying they were wrong and coming back into the
00:03:08
fold, you know, because that's how we that's how we maintain our virtue and
00:03:13
indignance and elected elect JD Vance. I think we just need to be a little bit more when people say I [ __ ] up and
00:03:20
this guy is bad, fine, welcome them. I I that's the smart thing to do. I have a
00:03:25
difficult time resisting calling, you know, telling Marjorie Taylor Green or a difficult time not telling her to sit
00:03:30
down when all of a sudden, you know, when it no longer matters and she doesn't get his support or endorsement
00:03:36
to run for Senate, she's all of a sudden decided that he's bad. For me, when I
00:03:41
saw those comments from Tucker, I it seemed to me to be I thought I I think I absolutely know what's going on
00:03:49
here. >> Mhm. >> He's running for president, Cara. >> Yeah. Yeah. And do you realize what an
00:03:54
enormous lane there is for somebody who has very conservative values, an enormous media platform, an enormous
00:04:02
army of acolytes that he could weaponize right away, and by the way is anti-Trump
00:04:09
and anti- the war in Iran, which a huge swath of Republicans are now. Who occupies that lane right now? And I
00:04:17
disagree with Kowi on this. I think here and now Tucker Carlson is the most likely GOP
00:04:24
nominee for president in 2028. Put him on stage with Rubio and Vance, he's going to slice and dice them. So, we do
00:04:36
I believe as Democrats and I realize I bring some bias to the table. I think he could go six, seven people deep. I think
00:04:43
you know the the eighth mo most likely person to get the nomination like a senator Clolobashar or uh an Osaf they
00:04:52
are 10 times better than the person leading in the prediction platforms for the Republican party JD Vance we are we
00:04:59
have a deep bench as deep as our bench is theirs is that shallow JD Vance I mean he makes
00:05:09
Jesus Christ he makes goals likable I mean, the guy the guy is unattractive. They're going to have a field day taking
00:05:18
all of his statements and his gymnastics and his hipp hypocrisy and his weirdness. Whether it's saying
00:05:24
that the pope should be more careful speaking to notions of of of religion. I mean, he's said so many ridiculous
00:05:33
things that they're going to have a field day with. Yes, he shifted rather a
00:05:37
lot. >> And then they'll connect them and they haven't even started connecting him to
00:05:40
Teal and that [ __ ] weirdness. >> Well, do do but the shiftingness of this
00:05:45
Tucker thing for example? I mean I didn't he know or why did he suddenly know or was it just because it's Israel
00:05:51
and um uh and this Iran war? What what what is it? It's like how do you >> It's calculated. It's strategy. in this
00:05:59
case is calculated because I think he's already said this privately and it got
00:06:02
out in those legal filings and >> he's always he's always hated Trump. I
00:06:06
think anyone I think Tucker's a smart guy. I think anyone who's intelligent
00:06:09
>> and whatever you say about Tucker I I don't know he he's an intelligent
00:06:14
impressive media figure. He is very good at what he does and he could not stand Trump and then saw that his audience was
00:06:23
going there and that's the way he was going to make money was to be just blindly supportive of Trump. Now he sees
00:06:28
an opening. He's the he's the leading candidate for president. >> The heinous things he said like there a
00:06:34
lot of look greenhouse. >> He's trying to recast himself. He's apologized and now he has two years to
00:06:40
take on an anti-Trump uh Republican. He has two years to basically carve out and cement a lane of
00:06:49
I am anti-Trump. I'm an anti-Trump conservative that was anti-war that neither Vance nor Rubio can carve out.
00:06:57
He's he's very well positioned, >> right? But then how do you I want to
00:07:02
talk about the bigger picture of escaping this like the Marjorie Taylor Greens and and Shapiro was doing that
00:07:08
and and you know we've gotten some a lot of I get your flag too. Um >> bring it on.
00:07:16
>> Okay. Explain because you said let me just push back at you if you don't mind.
00:07:20
Um you said you appreciate his moral clarity and reasoning. I'm going to take
00:07:24
issue. I think he's very smart. There's no question. I'm going to take some
00:07:27
issue and I sometimes agree with some of the things he says, not a lot of them, but some of them. Okay. Um, he also took
00:07:33
a shot at me that was inaccurate and put it in the commercial. >> That's right. On my podcast.
00:07:37
>> Oh, no. You said on your podcast, >> he took a shot at you. >> No, no, no. Before previously, he's he
00:07:43
he did call to apologize to me about it, which I appreciated. But that said, the
00:07:48
moral clarity thing, I mean, I I I would have trouble h how do you escape things
00:07:53
like, let me just tell you a couple of things he said, which sort of is why I found it a little bit disturbing. Um, he
00:07:58
called transgenderism a mental disorder. He argues that homosexuality should remain in the DSM as a mental illness.
00:08:06
He's called women who have abortions baby killers. He's um he said a man and
00:08:10
a woman do a better job of raising a child than two men or women. That's not
00:08:14
even getting into some of the the comments he makes about Arabs. He said this was a long time ago and he walked
00:08:20
back those comments as being dumb when he said Israelis like to build Arabs like to bomb and live in open sewage
00:08:27
which I didn't think was something one should say and any number of men and women things. But and then Green
00:08:33
herself, let me move on to Green, you know, is saying a lot of incredible things. That said, she another person
00:08:39
who attacks trans and gay people uh says every now and then drops what I consider
00:08:45
to be very anti-Semitic tropes very quickly once she gets past I don't like war. It she shifts she she mix she she
00:08:53
she she says Jewish when she means Israel quite a bit. And so you kind of see the play there. I I do want to like
00:09:01
how do you I couldn't I don't think I could talk to to Ben Shapiro because of
00:09:06
a lot of the things unless in some way how talk about this whether our country and I just talked to a Hearnden about
00:09:13
this is that most regular people do forgive people or they say oh he didn't mean it and Tucker's trying to do the
00:09:20
same thing Joe Rogan's trying to do the same thing >> Gavin Newsome's trying to do the same
00:09:24
>> Gavin Newsome's trying to do yes he's shifting the other way which I I also
00:09:28
have written him and said I find like what are you doing here? Um and and I we can disagree with each other, but how
00:09:36
how easy it is is it to let people back in and what should be the um I guess what should be the criteria? I
00:09:44
guess there'll be different criteria for each person. >> Look, I at a very spiritual level, the
00:09:51
question around letting people back in is forgiveness is divine and you know, you want to heir on the side
00:09:57
of forgiveness. Having said that, I think the more salient question is who do you decide to platform or not? So,
00:10:04
I've had a lot of people from quote unquote the manosphere contact me directly and say, "You have
00:10:08
misrepresented me. You are part of the manosphere, but you're manosphere light.
00:10:12
We could have a productive conversation. I'm coming on." And I'm like, to be
00:10:15
blunt, I think what you have said is so unproductive and so damaging for young men that I don't want to give you any
00:10:21
oxygen. I don't even want to get in your face. I don't want to have an argument.
00:10:25
I don't I don't use the most famous misogynist. I don't use his name because
00:10:30
I don't want to give them oxygen. So the question is, do you give a guy like Ben?
00:10:34
>> Which one is it? Go ahead. >> Well, you can probably guess anyways.
00:10:37
>> Andrew Tight. >> Well, someone who's been jailed for accusations of of trafficking women.
00:10:44
>> I will use this. >> I mean, okay. So, but I don't He likes it. Every time his name is used, the
00:10:50
algorithms elevate his contact content and other platforms. Yeah, he's number
00:10:53
one on Substack right now. >> And the reality is if you talk to young men, most young men have written him off
00:10:58
a long time ago, but I think because we he's such an easy punching bag. We mention his name and the algorithms pick
00:11:05
it up and elevate his content. Anyways, and a lot of young people will be drawn,
00:11:10
especially young men, to people who are controversial figures. So my feeling is there's certain people you just choke
00:11:15
off their oxygen supply. So the question is with someone like Ben, he has said in
00:11:20
my opinion wrong, even maybe vile things. I said to him, I said in my post comments after my interview with him,
00:11:28
the thing that really bothers me about Ben is that he has courageously called out these far-right people and said,
00:11:36
"We're we can't engage in this conspiracy theory, this hatemongering."
00:11:41
He said that to that group. I thought that was fairly courageous of him to call out those people. My issue or one
00:11:47
of my issues with Ben is that when they were these people were conspiracy theorists accusing world leaders, first
00:11:54
ladies of having penises or accusing people of, you know, just very heinous things, some of the transgender stuff,
00:12:01
he sort of was a bit of an apologist, but then when they went against Israel, that was the the red line for him. And
00:12:08
so I'm like, okay, basically Ben has decided to excommunicate and call out people on the far right, not when
00:12:15
they're homophobes or bigots, but when they become anti-semitic. And I said that I think I I disagree
00:12:22
with a lot of what Ben says. This is Ben Shapiro. He grew up in a lower middle class home. He's so [ __ ] smart. He
00:12:28
got to Harvard. He's built a great company. He is willing to acknowledge points. I love just watching him debate
00:12:35
to just take notes on how I make my progressive viewpoints, how I articulate my progressive viewpoints in a more
00:12:42
compelling way. And also, I am done with this notion of this apostate culture on
00:12:49
the left where if I don't choose the right words or have the right people on
00:12:52
my podcast, people act as if I've betrayed them. There are there is a line. I will never have Candace Owens on
00:12:59
my podcast. I will never have Nick Quentes on my podcast, but I think I think Ben brings a really
00:13:08
intellectual, adept, clever arguments and viewpoints to issues I don't agree
00:13:13
with him on. And I think it's a healthy dialogue. >> I'm not sure they're saying you
00:13:17
shouldn't have him on. I think it was the moral clarity thing I think was what
00:13:21
>> Okay, I chose Okay, I chose the wrong word. I get it. >> He doesn't back down. He has a view and
00:13:26
then he doesn't back down. He's not trying to go where the wind goes or or
00:13:29
what gets him most the most likes on Instagram. I respect that. I think he genuinely believes what he believes. He
00:13:36
tries to provide evidence and argument. Um I'm I'm I said I'm a fan of Ben Shapiro. I'm a
00:13:44
fan. You have to separate the person from the politics. I think he is an impressive young man who has who has
00:13:50
demonstrated incredible intellect and really made an incredibly successful media company. And this notion that I
00:13:58
believe when we all start barking up the same tree, we get really [ __ ] stupid.
00:14:02
And I think that people on the left and the right have a tendency to all want to
00:14:06
find the right words, especially people on the left, and get angry at anybody that wants to have a discourse.
00:14:12
>> Come on, Scott. The right has gotten so sensorious, like they're the ones who
00:14:16
are actually doing the censoring. There is a purity test on the right right now around Trump, around everything else.
00:14:22
And pushing these people pushing back is hard, I have to say. Um, despite I >> I find that the far right or the right,
00:14:30
not the far right, I find the right just writes me and you off. They just say we're livearts.
00:14:36
>> The most hate I get is from progressives who are like, "We thought we you could
00:14:40
trust >> when you said Biden was too old. You don't understand the assignment. We
00:14:44
thought we could trust you, >> right?" >> Or, "Oh, wait. Do you remember the hate
00:14:48
I got on that podcast when I said that transgender women should not be allowed to compete in women's sports?" Do you
00:14:53
remember that one? >> Mhm. I mean, it's okay. You are you are with us 100% or you're against us.
00:15:00
>> Well, that's different than having a debate over a very complex issue and and
00:15:05
saying transgenderism is a mental disorder or that homosexuality. >> Say that.
00:15:10
>> No, he did. Ben did. Okay. So, should we not ever talk to Ben because he said
00:15:14
that? >> I I think we >> should not ask him to defend his comments. >> I I think it's that's what I'm asking
00:15:19
you. It's a really difficult thing. I've thought about having Marjorie Taylor
00:15:22
Green on and then I read a lot. I'm like, uh, I'm going to like just cuz I
00:15:26
like what she's saying. I I don't trust any of these people. I'll be hon. And I
00:15:32
just think they see the wind >> and I think they have legitimate problems with Trump. I do think Green,
00:15:38
for example, is an America first and she's always been. I think she's very
00:15:41
committed to the Epstein issues and I think she is. I don't I don't I I think
00:15:46
she's sincere in this in that. And you can hear it goes way back and I go and I
00:15:50
go way back to read her. But then when it's accompanied by this other stuff,
00:15:54
how do you set I think it's gonna be a very hard road back for everybody. >> But let me just create let me just call
00:16:00
out a distinction. I struggle with the thing same thing you're struggling with.
00:16:03
You have more license I think because you're a journalist and so getting Marjorie Taylor Green on on with
00:16:10
Caris Swisser and talking to her and put and you're you're a great interviewer.
00:16:13
You're a much better interviewer than me knowing how to forcefully push back. You
00:16:17
are you are you are great at that. But I'll give you an example. I don't think Ben would ever stalk
00:16:23
people who came to testify in front of Congress who were Parkland shooter survivors and follow them for four
00:16:28
blocks accusing them of lying and being crisis actors. I don't see Ben Shapiro
00:16:34
ever doing something like that. At the end of the day, this is your call and people can decide that. All right, if
00:16:40
you're >> That's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about more as our country like when do
00:16:44
we let it go? Like that's going to be the reason I'm asking is I just did this
00:16:49
incredible interview with the status like when does it >> the statute of limitations and when
00:16:54
people >> when does do all of us have to just leave Trump behind us and all the bad
00:16:59
and I'm not I blame him but I blame ourselves because it's really hard and
00:17:05
it's and it's and the jumping like listen I got like attacked for saying
00:17:11
Reese Witherspoon was just saying try AI. >> That was weird. That was just stupid. It
00:17:14
was weird, but it was also but I also get it like the rage about it's >> the machine looking for soft tissue to
00:17:21
pretend they're virtuous. That's stupid. >> You know the right virtues you virtuous
00:17:25
we all >> that's everybody everybody who's angry about AI there's a there's there's
00:17:30
there's different this is right >> that's all I'm saying is I get where
00:17:34
it's coming from. I get where it's coming from and so I discount it. And
00:17:37
sometimes you know I was talking to Claire this morning about some skull was was being mad about his socks or
00:17:43
something like that. And I said to her, it was we were driving to school and she
00:17:46
goes, "Oh yeah, he was really mad about the socks." I said, "You know, he wasn't
00:17:49
mad about the socks. He was mad cuz I've been away for a few days and he wanted
00:17:53
me to drive him to school and I'm driving you." And I said, "Sometimes
00:17:56
people are mad about things that have nothing to do >> for a six-year-old. I couldn't have that
00:18:00
conversation with my 18-year-old." >> And it was an interesting conversation.
00:18:04
>> You bring up Freud or Yungian resentment. >> No, I just used Claire's so smart. It's
00:18:10
crazy. >> Let's watch Frozen. >> Watch Frozen. Frozen, too. But it's just
00:18:14
I think we should be talking like what is what do we have to do to get back to some level of disagreement? And I do
00:18:22
think I I there's no question that the Greens, the Shapiro, the Owens, the Meg
00:18:28
uh Megan Kelly uh and definitely people on the left too, who I don't listen to
00:18:33
as much, which is interesting, have tried to like poke at us and make us really dislike each other in a way that
00:18:40
I think has been very dangerous. And at some point there has to be some level of
00:18:45
reckoning over that because >> the right word, >> you know, it's a reckoning. And what is
00:18:50
that reckoning is really important. >> Well, three points. There's some nuance
00:18:54
here. I would not group all of those people into the same group. I think there's different levels of
00:18:59
menaciousness and disingenuous and saying hateful things for money. Um, the right word. So, the first is
00:19:08
um what I'll call camera culture or forgiveness. I think in a culture where everyone's following each other around,
00:19:13
where everyone's tweets live forever, if we don't expand the aperture of
00:19:17
forgiveness, we're just all going to [ __ ] hate each other. I say stupid [ __ ] all the time. I I'm putting out 14
00:19:23
[ __ ] hours a week of content. I'm shooting from the hip. I If an 18-year-old shows up to a a a protest on
00:19:31
campus and says from the river to the sea, not understanding how some people perceive that, you know, I don't want to
00:19:36
kick him out of school. I don't want to ruin his career. I don't want to I don't
00:19:40
want to contact JP Morgan, which some people want to do, and get make sure he doesn't his summer internship is
00:19:45
rescended. We have to get to a level of more forgiveness in a culture where there's incentive to find make a cartoon
00:19:53
of people's comments and press on the soft tissue and and be outraged behind
00:19:58
our computers. I I and we have gone so far from that. We need I'm trying to do
00:20:02
that. I'm trying not to call out people for clicks when I see an opportunity.
00:20:06
I'm trying to take the temperature down. The word you bring up though and it's
00:20:10
different is reckoning. And that is I do not think this nation heals until there
00:20:16
is some form of reckoning. Marjorie Taylor Green and Nancy Pelosi should discourage their profits from insider
00:20:23
trading. The people who were in charge or supervisors of ICE in Minneapolis where an ICU nurse somehow ended up with
00:20:31
10 bullets in his person, those people should be should be hauled in front of committees and punished. I'm not saying
00:20:38
maybe they go to jail. When when there are people in geopolitical advantage, they should disorgge those profits and
00:20:44
be put on trial. There needs to be a reckoning here. At the same time, with respect to what people say or their
00:20:52
views or being incendiary or playing into a far-left or a far-right media ecosystem that then elevates it online,
00:20:59
we need to massively increase the aperture around forgiveness. >> Yeah, I think well, that's well said.
00:21:05
See, we've had a good discussion about this. We're still getting dragged online
00:21:09
and I get >> Thanks. >> I think you should do the interview with I would tune in for the interview with
00:21:14
Marjorie Taylor Green. I would love to see what you said and how you how you approach it. I think that would be
00:21:19
>> one of the reasons I would not interview MTG is I don't feel like I have the
00:21:23
skills to handle that interview. >> Well, yeah, it's hard because it's part
00:21:26
of me I'm like go girl and part of me is like really some of the heinous things
00:21:29
you've done. Shall I? There's a point. It's it's a difficult thing because you
00:21:33
know I just I'm like you very clearly have issues with Jewish people like it's
00:21:38
uh you know you'd have to have an honest convers you'd have to be open to an
00:21:42
honest conversation instead of just clap clap clap we forgive you. >> Can I give you can I give you a couple
00:21:46
real world examples? I was supposed to go on Bill Maher and I found out that Steve Bannon was one of the panelists.
00:21:53
you did. You removed yourself. >> And I said, "Uh, this guy made what
00:21:56
looked like to me a Nazi salute." And a lot of people say, "No, he didn't.
00:22:01
If I had more skills, I could handle that conversation." I don't have that
00:22:05
skills, those skills. I I as a non to my mother, I I feel like I would have to [ __ ] say something to him on live TV.
00:22:13
I do not want to hijack Bill Mar show, and I don't know how to thread that needle, so I backed out. I was invited
00:22:20
to go on Steve Bartlett's podcast tomorrow. I was supposed to be on with Eric Schmidt on a discussion on AI. I
00:22:26
have a lot of respect for the brain of Eric Schmidt. I I would learn a lot. I'm
00:22:30
like, I'm in. And they're like, Eric can't do it. Can you come on in and this
00:22:33
panel with Sanker Chank? I mean, every time I see that guy, he's yelling. I don't want to get into a yelling match
00:22:40
with anybody. >> You went on that Piers when I told you not to. >> Well, I didn't know he was going to he
00:22:44
was going to ambush me with some farright weirdo. >> Yeah. So, and by the way, I I I like
00:22:51
Pierce, >> and he's been very generous to me. And I called the producer and I said, "Never
00:22:55
again. Don't call me. You didn't warn me that you were going to bring on some
00:22:58
right-wing weirdo to try and say to call me desperate and unamerican. I don't
00:23:03
need that shit." And it wasn't a civil conversation. It was you just trying to
00:23:06
get the YouTube algorithm to have a call out moment such that you'd get another
00:23:11
[ __ ] $40 from AdSense. I'm not going to engage in that. At the same time, I'm
00:23:16
not going to get on with I think that guy is far left who every time I see him is yelling. I'm like that that what good
00:23:23
does that do me? What what good does that do the ecosystem or any sense of civil discourse that this nation needs
00:23:30
to move toward? >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll see how it goes. It'll be interesting.
00:23:35
>> I'm so indignant right now. >> What you >> I'm so indignant right now. What do you
00:23:38
call What do you call What do you call a black man on the moon? >> Oh, no. Don't. Please don't. You're I'm
00:23:44
gonna have to fire you soon. What? >> An astronaut. You [ __ ] racist. >> Oh, I love it. That guy is amazing. He's
00:23:51
>> with his dog. That guy is amazing. >> He's amazing. Like, oh, all right.
00:23:55
>> They make $150,000 a year. >> One of them said I wouldn't fly with a
00:23:59
Who was the person who said I wouldn't fly with a black pilot? >> It was Charlie Kirk.
00:24:03
>> Was it Kirk? >> He was making a point around DEI that he thinks there's And by the way, Elon's
00:24:07
done it too. >> Just so you know, how airlines I'm not forgiving how airlines handle DEI. They
00:24:11
do widen the aperture in terms of who makes it into the applicant pool, but any pilot, female, male, black, white,
00:24:19
Latino, has to pass the exact same test at the same level. >> Ridiculous. It's [ __ ] ridiculous.
00:24:23
That those things I'm sorry. I'm not going to be forgiving. Anyway, the that
00:24:26
pilot is amazing. Um, all right, we're moving on. Speaking of Speaking of >> I didn't mean to sound offensive
00:24:33
a lot in the last 24 hours. >> I know. But you know what? It's good to
00:24:35
talk about because everyone wants me to dump you. >> Everyone wants you to dump me.
00:24:40
>> I'm not We're not doing it. I'm just telling you today today today
00:24:44
I'm Scott did I have an effective and substantive conversation about the issue
00:24:50
we talked about >> just all right I'm moving on speaking of people we may have to forgive Apple will
00:24:56
have a new CEO for the first time in 15 years come September Tim Cook is stepping down as CEO and will move into
00:25:01
a new role as Apple's executive chairman Trump praised uh Cook in a post on true
00:25:07
social also saying quote I was very impressed with myself to have the head of Apple calling willing to kiss my
00:25:11
ass," unquote. Unfortunately, this was accurate. Uh John Turnis, the head of
00:25:15
Apple's hardware engineering, will succeed Cook, first product person running the company in a while. He's
00:25:21
been with the company for 25 years, overseeing the engineering of the iPhone, iPad, and Mac. Uh talk about the
00:25:27
legacy and you will have to include sort of being tainted by this relationship with Trump, including recently the
00:25:33
statue and the Melania thing. and Turnis is joining Apple as the company is fighting for a space in the AI race and
00:25:41
product innovation. Um, talk a little bit about predictions for the Turnis era and looking back at the Cook era. May I
00:25:48
start? I have to say he's 10x the amount the value of the company. When when
00:25:53
Steve gave him the reigns and then died, everyone thought it was curtains for the
00:25:58
company and that has not been the case. He has been innovative with AirPods and watch and not just not as sexy as as
00:26:05
Steve Jobs has been or as visionary. So I think he's been a great um uh a great
00:26:11
leader for them. That said, he was tarnished by some China all the China manufacturing stuff for sure um because
00:26:18
he's a logistics guy. He he was maybe too much of an automaton on that those
00:26:22
human rights issues. And then the President Trump stuff is not a great look, but I think he was taken one for
00:26:27
the team would be my guess in that regard. Uh, as a person, I really like him. He's he's been he's a really um
00:26:36
calm person. I think he could have been slightly more outspoken about gay issues, but that's his choice. Again, I
00:26:43
don't I don't force gay people have to talk about it, but he's a good um role
00:26:47
model. Probably could have talked a little bit more about it. That's my only
00:26:50
But that's again his choice. Um, and I get why people don't want to. So, your
00:26:54
thoughts? >> I think people's careers are, you know, the second in the blink of a of the
00:26:59
corporate world in the universe. That second 35 mm, right? It no one gets all 35 mm perfect and Tim
00:27:09
Cook's running at 34 a 12. So to not, this is his legacy. Tim Cook is the most
00:27:16
successful successor in corporate history. He talk about a guy that was set up to
00:27:21
fail by virtue of the idolatry of the person who was taking over for it. They were immediately second guess. His
00:27:27
record was pretty amazing. The record itself, not just idol. >> Yeah. It's like, okay, who inherits
00:27:32
Jesus's mand? >> Yeah. >> Steve Jobs was the new Jesus because we
00:27:37
had shifted from idolizing our athletes and our government officials to the idolatry of innovators as identified and
00:27:44
marked by Steve Jobs and then who was taken from us early like Jesus. I mean it was just he was he has become a
00:27:51
mythical godlike figure. >> So any guy taking you want to talk about the biggest shoes to fill in history and
00:27:58
what did Tim Cook do? He took the stock up tfold operationally. He built the most
00:28:05
probably the most robust impressive supply chain in history. He figured out a way in a foreign nation to take
00:28:12
advantage of the collision between advanced manufacturing and low wages and somehow get 2,000 parts to one place or
00:28:21
different places for assembly and build a supercomput for $400 that if you tried
00:28:26
to build it anywhere else would cost $4,000. He figured it out. He also uh created
00:28:34
people say he wasn't a new product guy. My favorite technology in history in
00:28:40
history. >> Mhm. >> These things. >> The AirPods. You love your AirPods.
00:28:44
>> And AirPods if they were their own business would be a Fortune50 company.
00:28:48
>> And it's I think of it's the most successful piece of jewelry in history
00:28:51
in the highest margin. >> In addition, what he decided to do was to say, "Okay, I'm not going to launch
00:28:57
new products. I'm going to take existing products and applications and take a
00:29:02
phone and evolve it to a supercomput where you have payments, where you have music.
00:29:08
>> So, an ecosystem is what you're talking about creating an eos. >> But he he took the iPhone from a phone
00:29:14
>> to a supercomput in your pocket that was media transactions. >> Yeah. Ecos
00:29:19
>> and and it became the iPhone pulled off the impossible. And that is if you want
00:29:24
really high margins like Ferrari, it's a niche with limited volumes. If you want
00:29:29
super high volumes like a Toyota, you have to price it to get low margins. The iPhone is the only product in history
00:29:35
that's managed to get the production volume of a Toyota with the margins of a
00:29:39
Ferrari. The iPhone has created more gross margin dollars than any product in history. Arguably speaking, the iPhone
00:29:46
is the most successful product in history. There's been nothing like it. He did it with a lot of grace.
00:29:55
There wasn't anyone [ __ ] posting or leaving or filing lawsuits. And if you
00:29:59
want to talk about Apple's ascent past, say, Samsung or Android, go buy a phone,
00:30:05
an Android phone. You're you're talking to a guy with a name tag named Roy who's
00:30:09
living with his parents in a bad place with bad carpeting. And then you >> It's still not great. I'll tell you
00:30:14
that. There's there's some beautiful there's there's some beautiful form
00:30:18
factors that I like. I wish there was more. No, I mean the retail the distribution for Android.
00:30:22
>> Got it. Yeah. >> You go into an Apple store. >> Mhm. >> If they opened a coffee store, it
00:30:27
probably be if they opened a coffee counter in the Apple store, it' probably
00:30:29
be the highest grossing retail in the world. And by the way, it became the highest grossing per square foot retail
00:30:35
besting Tiffany in the early odds. >> Let me ask you his negatives. What would
00:30:40
you say? I would definitely think the the controversies around China certainly, but that they seem in the
00:30:46
rearview mirror. What about the Trump relationship? the China one. Look, he he had to take a huge risk on a company
00:30:53
that we had geopolitical tensions with. He couldn't look into a crystal ball.
00:30:56
And quite frankly, it looks as if we've it looks as if we've survived it. And I
00:31:00
would argue I would argue that China and the US have a vested interest in figuring out a way to get along because
00:31:07
Apple is so important to China and China is so important to this US company called Apple. I think cross commerce, I
00:31:14
forget the German word for it, is firms that trade trade with each other are just less likely to go to war with each
00:31:20
other. So I I I am a huge fan of what he has pulled off in China. The Trump stuff, we were very vocal about it. It
00:31:27
pissed me off. I think Tim Cook, there are few people who have benefited more from the American system and civil
00:31:33
rights and gay rights and rule of law and systemic laws around business and a lack of favoritism and a lack of tariffs
00:31:40
than Tim Cook. And yet he, you're right, he played the game. His priority was
00:31:45
shareholders, so he was strategic and kissed the guy's ass. I get it. It would
00:31:49
have been nice if he had been a little bit more forceful and pushed back, but the reality is neither did the other 499
00:31:56
S&P 500 CEOs. So quite frankly, I think he gets a >> You don't see Nadella there. You don't
00:32:02
see like >> Nadella went to the meeting. He >> he went to the meeting, but I'm talking
00:32:06
about the like >> he didn't go to the Melania premiere. >> He didn't. and he didn't do the bring
00:32:11
him a present and just it was I thought it was tainting of his long very decent tenure and I don't think it I think I
00:32:18
know I have a feeling I know why he did it. He's like, "It had to be done
00:32:21
essentially. I have to kiss up to him." And then of course, Trump returned the
00:32:25
favor by saying, "He kissed my ass." Which is just like typical. >> Well, this is the question I would ask.
00:32:30
>> Yeah. >> Of all the CEOs on a balanced scorecard >> of having a good team, fostering
00:32:35
leadership, of of showing grace, not posting other people. Who scores higher than Tim Cook in the history of
00:32:42
business? >> Cook or or Nadella? I would say Cook or I think Navel really pulled the company
00:32:46
together. >> So, we got a 99 point. He got 1590 on the SAT. He did. He got one question
00:32:51
wrong. I mean, >> okay, I got it. I'm just asking the question. I would agree with you.
00:32:56
>> This guy is a first ballot hall of fame >> 100% and American citizen
00:33:02
>> 100%. And when when people leave the stage, everyone should just be >> He's also leaving at the right time, by
00:33:08
the way. >> Yeah. He's stepping down. He's not clinging to power like an African
00:33:12
dictator. >> So, um, Turnis, very quickly, predictions for the Turnis era. Again,
00:33:19
talk about big shoes to fall. The the only um you know him better than I do. The only thing I find fascinating about
00:33:24
this guy is that he tinkers with like go-karts and he's a hardware guy. So, it
00:33:29
says more about the board. They said we're about hardware. We're not about
00:33:33
services and this is about trying to innovate about products. You know him better than I do.
00:33:37
>> I don't know him. I've met him a couple. He wasn't he didn't stick out compared
00:33:40
to some of the others there that were in the contention. But I do think he's
00:33:45
having a product person is really important because they've got to really evolve the iPhone in ways and and I
00:33:50
still have to get some glasses thing going. I know you're against it, but there's some lighter glasses thing that
00:33:56
has to get going. I think they haven't been great in the home. They've been
00:33:59
okay. Um, and so there's a lot of and and then of course how how AI is integrated into all these products is
00:34:06
going to be with in with privacy and safety, especially given the rage about AI. Um, I know you all think AI is not
00:34:13
going to happen, but it's going to happen. So I think that's I think we'll
00:34:16
see. I think it, you know, again, this is a group of people that have been there forever, and I would have liked to
00:34:22
see maybe a little bit more um shakeup, but I see why they don't. Why would they? and because it's working and so
00:34:29
he's, you know, he's younger, he's more vibrant, and we'll see how he does.
00:34:33
Anyway, uh let's go on a quick break. When we come back, uh new deals, new details about SpaceX IPO.
00:34:40
>> Support for the show comes from BMC. Before you scale AI to every corner of
00:34:45
your business, before you supercharge your agents with AI ready data, before you trust your entire business to AI,
00:34:51
BMC first. BMC is here to help you look past the hype of the AI revolution and look toward an orderly AI evolution. For
00:34:59
decades, BMC has powered the systems the world can't afford to fail with automation, orchestration, and control
00:35:05
at enterprise scale. And today, they are the automation engine for the AI era, the foundation for the agentic
00:35:10
enterprise at scale. And as companies seek to harness the power of automation to streamline and accelerate their most
00:35:15
complex and critical business processes, BMC is ready to partner with them. Because BMC is uniquely qualified to
00:35:21
solve the orchestration, data and execution challenges that AI creates. Before AI, before automation, before
00:35:28
orchestration, BMC first. How can you change the course of your business when you partner with BMC? Learn more at
00:35:35
bmc.com. Support for this show comes from Harvey AI. The future of law is Agentic. Not
00:35:45
just tools that assist, but AI agents that navigate complex matters. Harvey was built on legal agents that analyze,
00:35:52
draft, and execute with precision. But great lawyers don't just complete tasks,
00:35:57
they strategize. That's why Harvey created agents that can do the work from end to end. They build a plan, pull from
00:36:03
secure data sources, run sub agents in parallel, and draft the work product ready for your review so you can
00:36:09
delegate the work and own the judgment. Harvey agents support work across fund formation, litigation, regulatory
00:36:16
compliance, M&A, and more. Adapting to the complexity of each matter and the
00:36:20
way your team actually works. Trusted by more than 60% of the AM law 100 and leading Fortune 500 legal teams, Harvey
00:36:28
is the AI operating system designed specifically for legal work, helping teams move faster with greater precision
00:36:34
and confidence. Harvey, AI tailored for law. Learn more at harvey.ai. Scott, we're back. as SpaceX Blockbuster
00:36:46
IPO approaches. The company is doubling down on AI, striking a deal with Cursor,
00:36:50
a coding startup for a possible $60 billion acquisition. Uh, also some new details from the IPO
00:36:56
filing. Elon and a group of insiders will have control of the company through a dual stock uh dual class stock
00:37:02
structure. What a surprise. Elon increased his stake in SpaceX last year, buying $1.4 billion worth of stock from
00:37:09
current and former employees. He stands to get 60 million more in shares if SpaceX market cap reaches $6.6 trillion
00:37:16
and the company completes a plan to build data centers in space. Slight hitch. The IPO perspectus warns that
00:37:23
data centers and plans for the moon and Mars rely on unproven tech and might not
00:37:27
be commercially viable. Um let me just add um talk about these plans and in other news Tesla is out with it latest
00:37:36
earnings reporting better than expected numbers but still way below levels from a few years ago. One bright spot. The
00:37:41
company said demand around the world is growing obviously because of rising fuel
00:37:44
prices increased demand for EVs and they're the front runner in that shares initially rose in extended trading but
00:37:50
gave up those gains since Elon warned that significant increase in capital capbacks which he noted was going to
00:37:56
start at $25 billion for robots and all sorts of large ambitious projects. I don't really care that he does those.
00:38:02
Cool. If it work great, if they don't, too bad, you know, shareholders. Um, you
00:38:08
know, again, it's the Tesla, the car business is not the business anymore, so
00:38:12
he's got to reach for something else. I don't fault them for that. Um, any uh
00:38:17
any thoughts about the IPO and then Tesla? >> Well, the the the news is their
00:38:24
acquisition or announced acquisition of Kurser and my sense is that XAI has not figured out a way to develop a revenue
00:38:32
model or a product that garners revenue. Well, all the all the founders have left
00:38:36
except for Elon. I think there's nobody left. >> Cursor is their attempt, I think, to
00:38:40
bolt on a front end that has a commercially viable product. >> Yeah, you're right.
00:38:43
>> The other observation I would make is that, >> you know, liars use statistitians lie
00:38:48
and liars use statistics. Some of these numbers are just such [ __ ] So, when OpenAI said they were raising money at
00:38:56
850 billion, okay, call it a trillion if you guarantee me a 17% preferred return
00:39:01
and I have a liquidity preference. I don't care what number you put on the the press release. And then, you know, I
00:39:07
mean, Anthropic here and now is worth more than um than OpenAI, but according to OpenAI's press release, they're worth
00:39:15
two and a half times. The number that's a lie here that I'd want to know more
00:39:18
information about is a $60 billion acquisition price. And I would bet it's structured something along the lines of
00:39:23
the following. it. If we go public and get a one and a half or two trillion dollar um market cap, we're going to
00:39:30
give you options where 3% of the company, which da da da is $60 billion. They don't have $60 billion in cash
00:39:36
anywhere. So, >> and also Andre's all mobbed up with that one, I think, and a whole bunch. They're
00:39:41
all the same people, >> but they want to put out a headline number of $60 billion to canote more
00:39:47
value in this thing than is probably there. Let me be clear. No one no one is cashing a check for $60 billion right
00:39:53
now. So look, I think that look Musk with respect to business and what I'll call perception and pulling and a
00:40:03
narrative around getting access to cheap capital to pull the future forward. He's
00:40:06
likely the best in history. Maybe with the exception of I don't know Netflix
00:40:11
and Amazon played that game really really deafly as well. But his ability to kind of continue to say no look over
00:40:18
here as I stuff the rabbit into the hat. Oh, wait. You figured out Tesla is like
00:40:21
just a mediocre auto company with low mark. Wait, look over here. Oh, SpaceX is only got 12 billion in revenues and a
00:40:28
one and a half. Oh, wait. Look over here. I mean, it's just and integrating space connectivity, broadband,
00:40:35
satellites, AI, autonomous >> centers in space. Not a bad idea. >> It is like every 8-year-old boy's dream.
00:40:43
I mean, it's like a company envisioned for an 8-year-old. >> Yeah. >> But he is very good at this. He's very
00:40:49
good at in creating 1 plus one plus a little bit of jazz hands equals $1.5 trillion.
00:40:58
And I look at this acquisition makes no [ __ ] sense. It's [ __ ] The $60 billion number, it's probably a good
00:41:05
idea because XAI needs more human capital and it needs something. It it quite frankly it just needs more product
00:41:10
management. >> He has to hide things in things. That's why Twitter went into Grock, right, into
00:41:14
XAI because you had to hide it in there, like the losses and the declines and whatever. It's still hugely influential
00:41:21
for him. Same thing with this is his Grock thing like all the people who he started it and touted it with have left.
00:41:28
Um, so he's got to make, you know, he he makes a [ __ ] into a very tasty [ __ ]
00:41:33
sandwich sometimes. Um, and and spending, you know, you're just going to get what you get with this guy. He's
00:41:39
going to always advantage himself. Um, he wants to do cool things. He's going
00:41:43
to take your money to pay for it. And the these numbers are insane, but they'll probably go up. So, we don't we
00:41:50
can't say don't invest, but the fact of the matter is they're they're you know,
00:41:55
are there going to be a million robots in their homes? You can. And you can, by the way, there's a million movies of him
00:41:59
talking about uh full self-driving. And I didn't even get into this here, but it
00:42:04
didn't happen. Like, everything he said was going to happen didn't happen. But
00:42:08
he's really good at raising money. He's really good at innovating certain
00:42:13
things, but then he moves on. And so I think you just have to go with and then he has a Starlink in the middle
00:42:20
of it. And so that's that's what you get with this guy. Um the question is is it
00:42:24
rabbits and and silliness or is it the real thing? It and does it hardly matter given the spheres go up?
00:42:31
>> See this is a problem. When you control a board and you have made all the board
00:42:35
members a lot of money, you end up doing deals that have no fiduciary oversight.
00:42:39
So in this instance, and this [ __ ] is boring, but no one pays attention to this stuff. A it was a share for share
00:42:46
deal when when SpaceX acquired XAI. And they valued XAI at 76 bucks and SpaceX at 527.
00:42:55
If SpaceX had a board that could push back, they would say, "No, XAI is not
00:43:00
worth in any way um 270 billion, which is the value they're putting on Twitter with an AI veneer.
00:43:10
No, it's not worth that. So, we're not taking that dilution." But because Elon
00:43:14
owns equally large amounts in each, he doesn't care. >> He doesn't care. That's why he's going
00:43:20
to have control, right? But meanwhile, SpaceX shareholders, in my view, are getting [ __ ] to try and bail out XAI
00:43:27
>> and Twitter before that >> and Twitter and Tesla at some point >> and is bailing out Twitter shareholders
00:43:32
who he promised back me in this ridiculous overpay of $44 billion and I will figure out a way to get you your
00:43:40
money back. But the problem is there's no one who has who can be a real fiduciary here and stand up for the
00:43:45
shareholders they're supposed to represent because Musk is in charge. see above two class two class shareholder
00:43:51
company. >> Agree. No, I think you've got it just right. And you know what? I hope he gets
00:43:54
a million robots. I've heard his robotic stuff is revolutionary. But like just
00:43:59
land it. Land the [ __ ] plane. So, as they say, but you know, it doesn't matter. These shares are going to jump.
00:44:04
They're just he has this incredible ability to do so. He's the Steve Jobs
00:44:08
used to supposedly have this reality distortion field except they actually delivered real company products. Um I
00:44:15
think he's got a reality distortion field. Sometimes things happen, sometimes they don't. All right, we're
00:44:19
going to go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll do a quick roundup of
00:44:22
the rest of this week's news. There's so much news. >> Support for the show comes from
00:44:26
Anthropic. Not every question has an easy answer. And when you're looking through one of those problems, you want
00:44:31
a partner to mount ideas off of and figure out where the deeper issues lie. That's where Cloud can help. Cloud is
00:44:36
the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's a collaborator that
00:44:40
actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or
00:44:44
strategizing your next business move, Cloud extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. Plus, Cloud's
00:44:49
research capabilities can have comprehensive, reliable analysis with proper citations, turning hours of
00:44:54
research into minutes. And Co-Work brings Cloud's code at Gentic Power to your desktop. No terminal required. Just
00:45:00
point it to the folder on your computer or add connectors including Google Drive
00:45:03
and Gmail. Describe what you need and it handles the rest. You can queue up tasks
00:45:06
and come back to finished work. Ready to tackle bigger problems? Get started with
00:45:10
Cloud today at cloud.ai. AI/pivot. That's cloud.ai/pivot. And check out CloudPro, which includes
00:45:16
access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. cloud.ai/pivot. Support for the show comes from Back
00:45:26
Market. Listen, there's a lot of ads out there telling you to buy new products.
00:45:30
I'm at a point in my life where I'd say twothirds of the things I buy, I think,
00:45:35
do I really need this? I'd like to go somewhere at Asylum Retreat and just live off a plate and a fork. But that
00:45:39
has nothing to do with this app. It's the same thing with tech ads, but Back
00:45:43
Market gives you a smarter way to buy tech, bringing personal and home electronics back to life through
00:45:47
professional refurbishment at a much lower price than new. It's all they do.
00:45:51
Backarket offers a range of high-quality phones, computers, gaming consoles, vacuum cleaners, and even iPods. All of
00:45:57
the tech at BackMarket has been inspected and restored by best-in-class professionals to ensure it is in perfect
00:46:02
working condition. They offer a one-year warranty and 30-day returns. And not only is BackMarket refurbished tech more
00:46:08
affordable than buying new, it's also more sustainable. E-Waste is the fastest
00:46:12
growing waist stream in the world. And Back Market is on a mission to reduce the environmental toll of the fast tech
00:46:17
industry by making refurbish the smarter, more confident choice designed to use fewer raw materials, waste less,
00:46:22
and emit less than new. Find your next phone for less on backmarket.com. Scott, we're back. Now, let's end with a
00:46:31
news rundown of other stories I'd like to hit quickly. First, Health Secretary
00:46:35
RFK Jr. made quite an impression as usual this week, testifying before Congress, besides heavy breathing on the
00:46:41
microphone, which was disturbing. Let's hear a clip of him defending Trump math
00:46:44
while Senator Elizabeth Warren tries to ask a question. >> There's two ways of calculating
00:46:49
percentage. If you have a $600 drug and you reduce it to 10, that's a 600% reduction.
00:46:55
>> He just kept going on the math. Elizabeth Warren wasn't having any of
00:46:58
it. Meanwhile, a report showing the efficacy of CO 19 vaccines has been blocked from being published in the CDC
00:47:05
and preventions scientific journal. It's the second time they're doing trying to
00:47:09
pretend these vaccines didn't work. Um, thoughts very quickly. >> I think HEGs is doing more damage to
00:47:16
people outside of the US than any person in re recent history. And I think RFK Jr. is going to do more cause more
00:47:22
death, disease, and disability amongst Americans than any person in recent history. And President Trump has to take
00:47:28
credit for that, but when you listen to the guy talk, he just he absolutely has no qual. If there's one I mean, you just
00:47:36
did you're doing a show on this. If there's one place you need to defer to
00:47:40
the experts and folks, expertise is an actual thing, it's around health. And
00:47:46
they have clearly decided, all right, this guy is a [ __ ] luth cannon talking about raccoons genitalia. And
00:47:52
they have basically said, keep this guy out of the news. What's interesting is
00:47:56
that if he had ovaries, they would have fired him by now. I mean, they seem to be quick to fire women.
00:48:01
>> Women. So, the dirty mouth lady left the labor department. >> I mean, what the three people now that
00:48:07
have been let go, all women. Anyway, >> there was one guy failing who's fighting
00:48:11
with Hegath, but go ahead. >> The Navy Secretary. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, look, he I I think RFK Jr. is
00:48:18
I and I this word's overused. RFK Jr. is dangerous, >> murderous, >> and no one loves, you know, no one loves
00:48:24
RFK Jr. more than measles. And we're about to see, in my opinion, we've already seen it, a potential comeback of
00:48:31
some of the most devastating diseases which we had eradicated because of just junk science head up your ass um beliefs
00:48:39
and conspiracy theories. The fact that this guy has been charged with the health of America and oversees the CDC
00:48:46
is going to set us back years if not decades. >> Decades, decades. And also, he's just
00:48:52
such a suckup to Trump. Except, let me just tell you, he's running for president, too. By the way,
00:48:56
>> he's running for they all wake up in the morning is. And those ma maha people
00:49:00
will stick with him. >> They all wake up in the morning, look in the mirror, and say, "Hello, madame or
00:49:04
Mr. President." All of these people cannot be our president. like, oh god, if I had to pick, I I don't know what I
00:49:10
would do. And I'm not going to have to pick. I won't pick any of them. Um, very
00:49:14
quickly, cryptobillionaire Justin Sun has sued the Trump family's crypto venture, accusing criminal extortion for
00:49:19
freezing digital tokens over his refusal to invest more money with the company over at True Social. Devon Nunes has
00:49:26
departed as the company CEO after four years in the role where they made, I don't know, $5 million a year and one
00:49:31
year he was paid $46 million. He's an incompetent [ __ ] Thoughts on that? Just what a surprise, Justin son. You
00:49:38
tried to pay to get out of an SEC thing and they [ __ ] you. What a surprise. Mobsters are going to mob. I don't know
00:49:44
what else to say. And the Witoffs are involved somewhere in here. It's one of
00:49:48
the children. >> It goes to the notion of reckoning. I think it should be done to the letter of
00:49:51
the law, but I I think right now uh the many of the people running for president
00:49:57
or just many of our our fine people serving in government in the Congress should be outlining and putting out
00:50:03
plans to work with to coordinate with states. AG that that somewhere has to be a crime and I think we have to start
00:50:11
signaling we are going to pursue these crimes and the statute of limitations I believe on the imalments whatever it is
00:50:19
this is probably this is probably I bet there's some very serious crimes this
00:50:24
could potentially under defense threats so but the fact that I went to an event where Steven Wickoff I spoke right after
00:50:33
him I just can't get over and the vice president, vice president Gore was there. I'm like, this guy is engaging in
00:50:41
naked criminality. And so, and by the way, I don't think it should be political retribution. I think
00:50:47
we also should go after some Democrats specifically around insider trading. >> Well, let me get to that. For the
00:50:52
prediction market news, Kelsey has fined and suspended three congressional candidates, uh, not both Democrats and
00:50:58
Republicans, uh, for betting on their own races. That's not allowed over there
00:51:02
at Kelchi. uh thoughts. They're they're that all these rules have to go in
00:51:07
place. A lot of companies are doing them now. Um do not be do not be betting on stuff like this. It is insider trading.
00:51:13
I'm glad Kelsey called it out as that. >> It was a brilliant move on Kh's part. I
00:51:18
mean, okay, so there's good and really bad here. The good is that Kali has said, and this will cost them. The
00:51:24
politicians will come out against them. They said you're not allowed to do this.
00:51:27
We're finding you. That's the good part. Good for them. smart move politically,
00:51:31
strategically for uh Tar, the CEO of Kelshi. This is what's wrong with it. We
00:51:38
shouldn't need companies to regulate themselves. We the fact that, you know,
00:51:43
the marketplace hates a void. It hates a vacuum. There's so little regulation
00:51:49
that the company itself is finding people. It's like it if what if what if all of a sudden Chevron said,
00:51:58
"Okay, you're manufacturing our oil and putting too much carbon into the air
00:52:02
because we are so [ __ ] freaked out about the lack of an an EPA." That's
00:52:07
where we are right now. The only regulation that's come down the pike in this stuff has usually been regulation
00:52:12
to stop regulation. And so when companies feel everybody hopes that a company's going to weigh in and regulate
00:52:18
themselves, that is not the way to run industry or a country. >> Not at all. And they are they are in
00:52:23
some cases. A lot several companies have put in rules about this. >> But it's insider trading is all we it's
00:52:29
insider. >> But the fact that just gives you a sense for the fact there's no sheriff here.
00:52:33
It's basically this is to a certain extent it's kind of like vigilanteism
00:52:37
that because there's no sheriff around. We have to enforce the law. So good on
00:52:43
Khi, but it's a it's a terrible indictment on our lack of regulatory infrastructure.
00:52:48
>> Agreed. One of them said he was doing it for a reason to show how bad it was.
00:52:51
Give me a break. Anyway, uh, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
00:52:58
Support for this show comes from Virgin Atlantic. Flying to your dream destination can be a once in a-lifetime
00:53:04
feeling, and knowing your vacation is hours away can really feel exciting. It's a whole reason why Virgin Atlantic
00:53:10
wants to make that feeling even better. Virgin Atlantic was born from a desire to bring back the joy of flying, and
00:53:16
they've been that way ever since. Their beautiful, stylish new planes, moodlit
00:53:20
in soft purple and pink, make you feel like a VIP before you've even been settled into your seat. Their flight
00:53:26
attendants read warm, welcome, attentive, onetoone service like no other. Customers in all cabins can
00:53:31
choose their main meal before they fly. You can pre-order a range of menu options in advance and look forward to
00:53:37
something delicious waiting aboard. If you're seeking a moment of well-being
00:53:41
before takeoff, two luxurious popup wellness experiences have also arrived at their London Heathrow Clubhouse. And
00:53:47
enhancements to their award-winning clubhouse can bring you elevated comfort, modern style, and a sense of
00:53:51
calm before you fly. Go to virginatlantic.com to learn more. Support for this show comes from Indeed.
00:54:00
When you're looking for talent, Indeed sponsored jobs can be just the boost you
00:54:04
need. It matches you with quality candidates fast, so you don't need to spend months searching for that new
00:54:08
hire. According to their data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than
00:54:15
non-sponsored jobs. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits
00:54:22
their needs. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes.
00:54:28
Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for
00:54:33
Indeed sponsored jobs. And listeners to this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium
00:54:41
status it deserves at indeed.com/mpodcast. Just go to indeed.com/mpodcast right now and support our show by saying
00:54:50
you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's indeed.com/mpodcast. Terms and conditions apply. hiring. Do
00:54:59
it the right way with Indeed. Okay, Scott, we're going to do some predictions very quickly. So people
00:55:05
know, Warner Brothers shareholders just approved the deal with Paramount, although it's facing a lot of regulatory
00:55:11
scrutiny. I suspect it'll get through, but it's going to be a lot bumpier. And
00:55:15
um so that's going to be an interesting thing. There's a lot of push back from
00:55:18
Hollywood, all kinds of regulators. Um so even if it's just reach this step, um
00:55:24
I got my thing in the mail. I own some Warner shares. Um, thanks for the money, David. Uh, uh, it's, uh, we'll see where
00:55:32
it goes. I I don't know. There might it might be a little rockier than than people think, but they'll probably shove
00:55:37
it through because they've only got a few months to before Trump loses a lot
00:55:41
of power. Your your prediction? >> By the way, it's right now on the prediction markets, it's saying that the
00:55:48
likelihood it closes is around 72%, which is less than I thought. >> Yeah.
00:55:52
>> They're saying there's a real there's like a one in three chance it doesn't
00:55:55
close. Yeah, there's some rockiness there. Anyway, go ahead. >> My prediction is that when the SpaceX
00:56:00
value when the SpaceX IPO goes out, >> you will see an almost not an equivalent
00:56:06
but a proportionate decline in the value of Tesla >> because right now investors are paying
00:56:12
for that Elon premium and that is an inflated multiple in exchange for Musk charisma and vision. And right now
00:56:19
Tesla's Ford P is 185. That's 12 times higher than the auto industry. And
00:56:24
basically they're they're paying 12 times what anyone else is garnering in
00:56:27
the auto industry for a car company that has posted sales declines for two years
00:56:32
in a row. And abroad BYYD has surpassed Tesla as the largest seller of EVs and eating away its European share. In
00:56:40
addition, >> new battery technology they're doing in China right now that looks really
00:56:43
promising. Go ahead. >> In addition, robo taxi and Optimus are longshot bets that may not pay off for 5
00:56:48
years if at all. So essentially all of a sudden retail investors are going to have an opportunity to buy into some of
00:56:54
that Elon vision and magic but with SpaceX. And so I think that magic acolyte worship of that creates that 185
00:57:03
times earnings of Tesla is going to massively deflate because I think all of that idolatry revenue is going to go
00:57:08
into SpaceX. >> Oh, that's interesting. So boom. >> So what you'll see is
00:57:13
>> what if he merges it in? >> Boom. They need robots at their data centers
00:57:19
in space. >> You've predicted that for a while. >> I I was right about the last one.
00:57:24
>> Yeah, you predict. Well, okay, that's a whole different ballgame. But if there's
00:57:27
assuming they maintain distinct capital structures, you're going to basically
00:57:32
see just a massive transfer of market cap from Tesla to SpaceX. >> The the stuffing gets knocked out of
00:57:38
Tesla. They're not going to make the robots that are going to run the data centers in space.
00:57:42
>> I look, I think industrial industrialized robots are incredibly exciting. I I think the notion that
00:57:47
you're going to have a robot in your house bringing you your soup or whatever. I just don't I don't I don't
00:57:52
see that. >> I'm gonna have that for you when you're old in case you're
00:57:54
>> I've already got a Filipino man named Manny with well moisturized hands lined
00:57:58
up. >> No, you're getting a robot named Barbara. >> You're going to push me around. You're
00:58:03
going to have trouble sitting over the back of my wheelchair >> and I'll tell you dirty jokes and you'll
00:58:07
tell me to show >> hitting you on the head like I can't believe you said that back in 2014.
00:58:13
>> We're late for our podcast. They they won a webbby 40 years ago. >> Yeah, that's true. We won.
00:58:19
>> We didn't talk about the Webbies. >> Oh my god. We won a Web We won. We won
00:58:22
both web. Both all of us. And also Lost Boys got one, right? Is that correct? >> So you won for On with Cara Swisser and
00:58:30
>> Interview. >> And Pivot won its third year in a row for best business podcast.
00:58:35
>> And my newsletter, No Mercy, No Malice, won for best business newsletter. And
00:58:39
>> it's a great business newsletter. >> Thank you. and Lost Boys won for best
00:58:44
special series co-hosted with uh the Mooch. Five Webbby wins between the two of us.
00:58:50
Cara, >> anyway, uh we appreciate that. We like the Webbies. We have fun with them.
00:58:54
Anyway, that's a fun show. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on
00:58:59
your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 8551 pivot. Okay, that's the show. Very good
00:59:06
show, Scott. That was a very good discussion. I appreciate it. >> I think I where I came across as
00:59:09
defensive. >> No, you didn't. No, you didn't. You didn't. I think I did. No, you didn't.
00:59:13
No, it was called a discussion. Anyway, >> when will I be enough? Cara, >> never. Thanks for listening to Pivot and
00:59:20
be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week.