00:00:00
I predict this mega micro penis war is
00:00:03
going to get worse and I am here for it.
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>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
00:00:13
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:00:15
Network. I'm Cara Swisser
00:00:16
>> and I'm Scott Callaway.
00:00:18
>> Scott, have you recovered from South by
00:00:19
Southwest at
00:00:21
>> I'm still basking in the glow. I thought
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it was great.
00:00:23
>> It was good. Yeah, I had a good time in
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the end. It was really fun. Um, what was
00:00:27
your favorite highlight of it?
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>> My favorite highlight, um,
00:00:31
>> besides our time together,
00:00:32
>> the way Representative Talerico
00:00:36
described masculinity and he talks about
00:00:39
his father, I guess, used to come home
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on Sunday and immediately change and
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then mow their lawn and then without
00:00:46
ever talking about it, just went next
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door and mowed the lawn of this old
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ladies and thought and he described
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>> that really struck you. You mentioned it
00:00:54
at the show that way. Did you did Did
00:00:56
you ever mow people's lawns, Scott?
00:00:57
>> I used to mow lawns for money, but I I
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didn't do it. I showed up to the house
00:01:02
before I mowed a lawn and said, "Hey,
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seven bucks in Ohio and I'll mow your
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lawn."
00:01:07
>> Oh, wow.
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>> And I had a manual lawn mower and I was
00:01:10
all of about 120 lbs pushing a manual
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lawn mower around.
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>> So you you were not taught to mow
00:01:15
people's lawns?
00:01:16
>> No, I was taught to make money. I My dad
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was like, "Go make money." My my son got
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a um a job at a taco truck last summer.
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>> It was so good for him. Um you know, so
00:01:28
many Anyways, I think chores chores,
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jobs, and sports. I mean, anyways, and
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>> anyway, the reason I'm asking is cuz
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it's introspecting when you're
00:01:39
introspection. Well, I've gotten I I've
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gotten much more introspective just to
00:01:43
today I'm here in Tulum and I've had
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some time to
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>> really contemplate and I've decided to
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it's time for me at this age, Cara. It's
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time for me Life is finite. It's time
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for me to start to start living my
00:01:54
dream. So, I'm going to start showing up
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for tests I'm not prepared for naked.
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>> Well, as always, so you're in the Mark
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Andre school. Have you heard about this
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situation, Mark? Let me just say what it
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is. Mark Andre, who I really don't like
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anymore. I didn't like that much then,
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but he's really become such a troll. He
00:02:14
said uh on the he's an a famous he's he
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was part of the Netscape browser thing.
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I wouldn't say he was the only person.
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He did take a lot of credit. Um but uh
00:02:24
important entrepreneur in Silicon Valley
00:02:26
um and etc. Now he's a venture
00:02:28
capitalist. On the founders podcast with
00:02:30
David Senra, he said, "My goal is zero
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introspection as little as possible. 400
00:02:35
years ago it would never occur to
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anybody to be introspective like the
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whole idea I mean just all the modern
00:02:40
conceptions around introspection and
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therapy and all the things that kind of
00:02:43
result uh from that are kind of
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manufactured 1910s 1920s uh this is very
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much in line with him being an expert on
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everything. He used to lecture me about
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things he knew nothing about a lot. Um
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it all it says to me is this man is in
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desperate need of therapy. Um to you
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know he's just trying to be like I don't
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think about anything. Um, and I find it
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I found it very uh dystopian and I find
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him dystopian in general. Um, but this
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idea that introspection is a weakness
00:03:13
again is not masculine. It's not
00:03:15
feminine. It's not h human I think in
00:03:18
some way.
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>> Yeah. I think it's important to
00:03:20
occasionally,
00:03:22
you know, do do some sort of I don't
00:03:25
know pondering. I, you know, ask
00:03:26
yourself ask yourself if you could only
00:03:29
bring one thing to a desert island, what
00:03:30
would you bring? And I decided the
00:03:32
answer is I wouldn't go.
00:03:33
>> No.
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>> Uh I need edibles streaming media and my
00:03:37
plane car.
00:03:38
>> Mhm.
00:03:38
>> Um no. Look, look, in all seriousness,
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it's as if these guys
00:03:43
>> Mhm.
00:03:43
>> Alman and Andre hired a publicist, the
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brightest comms person in the world, and
00:03:48
said, "How do we convince humanity we're
00:03:50
bad for humanity?"
00:03:52
>> Right. Right. And this notion that
00:03:54
technology requires less energy to get
00:03:56
to a point of critical thinking than a
00:03:58
human is just so nihilist and so weird.
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And then introspection is how we move
00:04:05
forward as a species.
00:04:05
>> It was like Socrates, Plato, Marcus
00:04:08
Aurelius, like it's been around. He's
00:04:10
like, "Oh, it's just the 1910s." He's so
00:04:12
ignorant. Like the idea introspection is
00:04:15
a critical element of all philosophy
00:04:17
going back. Also, by the way, Jesus test
00:04:21
the Bible. It's all about thinking about
00:04:24
>> reflecting on how you become a better
00:04:27
introspection is why we have the
00:04:28
Marshall Plan and why people reconnect
00:04:30
with their family members. Introspection
00:04:32
is how you
00:04:33
>> try to become a better person and
00:04:35
realize the errors of your actions and
00:04:38
that your actions have ramifications and
00:04:40
what can you do to be leave the world a
00:04:43
better place. It
00:04:44
>> Yeah.
00:04:44
>> And it's it's indicative again of this
00:04:47
faright
00:04:48
performative. I won't even call it
00:04:50
masculinity, but macho that I don't
00:04:52
care. I just plow ahead because I'm such
00:04:53
a baller.
00:04:54
>> Yeah.
00:04:55
>> It's just so It's just like, okay,
00:04:56
>> it's crazy. I I I I don't like my
00:04:59
grandmother didn't introspect a lot. She
00:05:00
grew up in the depression, right? She
00:05:02
didn't wonder if she was happy. I think
00:05:03
she was probably could have been
00:05:05
happier, right? That kind of thing. And
00:05:06
there's there's an element to that. But
00:05:08
this idea that this the idea of
00:05:10
thoughtfulness has not been around since
00:05:12
the dawn of time drives me
00:05:14
crazy. The second thing is look this guy
00:05:16
has a very famously doesn't speak to his
00:05:19
family right like there's all manner of
00:05:22
upness that is buried very deep
00:05:24
in this particular person who has
00:05:26
influence on other who has massive
00:05:28
influence on everybody else and you know
00:05:31
he's like a he's an emotional uh I don't
00:05:34
want to use you know he's just a tiny
00:05:36
little man from a from a soul point of
00:05:39
view like extraordinarily small um and I
00:05:42
find it really just bragging about it is
00:05:45
is the last is you know he's the one
00:05:47
that said we should fight more like we
00:05:49
should physically fight like as if he
00:05:51
could get in a fight with anybody he'd
00:05:52
lose in a second but this it's just they
00:05:55
just you're right they they're trying to
00:05:56
be villains or something by the way the
00:05:59
the main villain in the Marvel movies is
00:06:02
quite introspective FYI but go ahead
00:06:05
>> well I would argue that probably I mean
00:06:09
people would say the greatest mind of
00:06:10
the 20th century is Einstein but they
00:06:12
should take could play take a page from
00:06:14
the playbook of the greatest
00:06:16
>> arguably the greatest technologist
00:06:18
>> of the 20th century. And that was
00:06:20
someone who not only had a vision for
00:06:21
technology but but could bring together
00:06:22
people to what was at that moment
00:06:26
develop and deploy the most important
00:06:27
technology in history or at least the
00:06:29
most profound and that was Oenheimer and
00:06:31
he was hugely introspective.
00:06:32
>> So was Einstein. If you read some of
00:06:34
this,
00:06:34
>> they were hugely introspective. They
00:06:36
were they were really worried about what
00:06:39
about the the ramifications of their
00:06:42
actions and how they could spend the
00:06:44
rest of their lives trying to, you know,
00:06:48
they didn't just say the the in
00:06:50
introspection isn't some AI guy who
00:06:52
vests his shares and then scares the
00:06:54
out of the world as he pieces out
00:06:56
to the cotzora. That is not
00:06:58
introspection. Mhm.
00:06:59
>> Uh Bill Gates for all the Bill
00:07:01
Gates is getting and a lot of it is
00:07:02
warranted.
00:07:03
>> He is a he decided I have become the
00:07:06
wealthiest person in the world at that
00:07:08
moment.
00:07:09
>> I am smart. What could I do with my
00:07:12
resources to impact millions of people?
00:07:14
And he started distributing.
00:07:15
>> He decided I think I can stop malaria in
00:07:18
a continent.
00:07:19
>> That is introspection.
00:07:21
>> Yeah. Anyway, it's it's it's led to a
00:07:23
lot of very funny memes, you know,
00:07:25
Marcus Andronicus and then nothing. It's
00:07:28
called nothing. What a soulless empty
00:07:31
person. And these are not where we
00:07:32
should be getting clues as we go
00:07:34
forward. That's just my feeling. And I
00:07:36
think one of the more damaging figures
00:07:38
uh from a from in terms of training
00:07:40
young men uh at Silicon Valley is this
00:07:43
guy. He's not someone to follow. Let me
00:07:45
just say I've known him since he was
00:07:46
very young and he and he's progressed
00:07:49
negatively and and backwardly in a way
00:07:51
that's really quite depressing. Uh oddly
00:07:54
enough in in in relation and then we'll
00:07:56
finish up on this. I had lunch at South
00:07:58
by Southwest with Mark Cuban. What a
00:08:01
person who has developed in a really He
00:08:02
was telling me all about his cosplush,
00:08:04
the passion around it.
00:08:06
>> Um I just was like,
00:08:07
>> he also looks great, by the way.
00:08:08
>> He looks great. Yeah, he's eating clams.
00:08:10
That's another story.
00:08:11
>> Jesus, did he bore you with that story?
00:08:13
I had to suffer through that. He buys on
00:08:15
Amazon.
00:08:16
>> Yeah, I Let's not get into it. We We'll
00:08:18
have him on to talk about it at some
00:08:19
point. He's trying to get protein.
00:08:21
>> If oysters means GLP1, I believe it. I
00:08:24
seriously I met with him and Michael
00:08:26
Dell and they're both claiming that
00:08:27
they're playing a lot of Pedell and I'm
00:08:30
like your old you could eat you right
00:08:32
now. Pedel my ass.
00:08:34
>> Pedell. Anyway, they um I just was like
00:08:37
I had a wonderful talk about uh
00:08:39
prescription drugs about life about his
00:08:41
kids. Like what a It was such a
00:08:43
difference like he is the opposite of of
00:08:46
like a good man trying to add value.
00:08:48
>> Yeah, exactly. Anyway, uh we have to
00:08:50
move on but Mark honestly stopped all of
00:08:53
you. Alex Karp said a number of things
00:08:55
stupid things like stop talking all of
00:08:57
you stop talking because what you say is
00:09:00
nonsensical and actually makes you look
00:09:02
so stupid and pathetic that it's I'm
00:09:05
just here to help you on that issue
00:09:07
anyway
00:09:08
>> but look even if you're religion you're
00:09:11
supposed to reflect on some of it is
00:09:13
somewhere Jesus
00:09:16
>> if Jesus could feed the world with two
00:09:17
fishes and a loaf you know if you really
00:09:20
think about it that's tapas
00:09:24
I mean, peace out. Peace out.
00:09:26
>> All right, let's move on. I can't do any
00:09:28
better than that. I can't do any better
00:09:29
than that.
00:09:29
>> Okay. Um, as of this recording, oil
00:09:32
prices in the morning,
00:09:34
>> that's a segue.
00:09:35
>> That's a segue in the in a more real
00:09:37
situation. Uh, prices of oils over $119
00:09:40
a barrel at one point following attacks
00:09:42
on energy sites in the Gulf. President
00:09:44
Trump has been lashing out at US allies
00:09:46
this week demanding they send warships
00:09:48
to help secure the Strait of Hormuz. Uh
00:09:51
the response has been quote global
00:09:53
raspberry as one analyst put it. We're
00:09:55
seeing also the first resignation over
00:09:57
this war. Counterterrorism official Joe
00:09:59
Kent stepped down saying Iran posed no
00:10:01
imminent threat. Of course he went on
00:10:03
Tucker Carlson. His he's of that ilk. He
00:10:05
has some he has some problems himself.
00:10:07
But nonetheless, he quickly went on
00:10:09
Tucker Carlson to discuss his departure
00:10:11
because this is like the train, the
00:10:12
right-wing MAGA train if you're going in
00:10:15
one direction. Meanwhile, the Pentagon
00:10:17
is asking the White House to approve
00:10:18
$200 billion request for Congress to
00:10:21
fund the Iran war. I think of an entire
00:10:24
I think Joe Biden was 180 billion for
00:10:27
like years long wars or whatever.
00:10:29
Defense Secretary Pete Hex says just
00:10:30
said in a briefing that the number could
00:10:32
move because it takes money to kill bad
00:10:34
guys. Speaking of introspection, what an
00:10:36
idiot. Um, uh, the next move, what
00:10:40
happens here? Trump also said this week,
00:10:41
by the way, that a former president told
00:10:43
him he regretted not bombing them, but
00:10:45
all the former living presidents denied
00:10:47
saying that. So, I guess he's talking to
00:10:48
himself. I mean, they've denied it.
00:10:51
Like, he's such a liar. It's astonishing
00:10:54
like what this guy does. Um, obviously
00:10:57
either cognitive or just a liar. I'm not
00:10:59
sure. Where do you think what do you
00:11:00
think's happening here now? Let's have a
00:11:02
quick update. Well, I mean, the mother
00:11:05
of all understatements is it's
00:11:06
complicated. Look, I think the fatal
00:11:09
flaw of the Trump administration is they
00:11:11
don't recognize our power as a species
00:11:12
and as a country. And that is as
00:11:14
powerful as we are, we're only a third
00:11:16
of the world's GDP, but because we were
00:11:18
seen as the good guys and innovators,
00:11:20
and that we did
00:11:22
embrace this notion that if we can make
00:11:24
you wealthier and more peaceful,
00:11:26
ultimately that wealth and peace will
00:11:28
return home in the form of you buying
00:11:30
our trucks and being our ally. And we
00:11:32
can put a military base there. And the
00:11:34
operating system of 60 or 70% of the
00:11:38
world was US laws, military flows of
00:11:41
energy, general rule of law, even
00:11:43
democracies, even laws and justice
00:11:45
systems were based off the US model. And
00:11:48
to to his lesser extent, the British
00:11:50
model, it just got evolved. We were sort
00:11:52
of 2.0. And he's decided, no, with 30%,
00:11:55
I can go at it alone. And what he's
00:11:57
found is all of a sudden he's 1/3 versus
00:12:00
2/3. And this is just when my we, you
00:12:04
know, we warn my son not to take
00:12:05
grapefruit juice into the to the living
00:12:07
room with the brand new couch and he
00:12:09
tells us, "Don't be an idiot. I can
00:12:11
handle it." And then he screams, "Dad, I
00:12:13
need help." And I know exactly what's
00:12:14
happened. It's just
00:12:15
>> Yeah, he spilled the grape juice.
00:12:15
>> Well, what do you know? We're going to
00:12:17
I'm going to do this unilaterally. I'm
00:12:19
not going to go to the UN. I mean, talk
00:12:22
>> Gulf won. George Bush put together a
00:12:25
coalition of I think 31 countries. He
00:12:27
got UN authorization and he got the
00:12:29
allies to pay 62 of the 707 $70 billion
00:12:32
in cost. That war cost
00:12:33
>> and at great and at great sacrifice for
00:12:35
many of them and of course he's been
00:12:36
downplaying their sacrifice and they're
00:12:38
now like literally saying no and by the
00:12:41
way and if you get come out of NATO fine
00:12:44
like they're now at that point I mean
00:12:45
you know whatever
00:12:47
>> he asked China for help and by the way
00:12:50
>> China's ships are flowing through. So
00:12:52
the notion that he's going to quote
00:12:54
unquote an enemy or nemesis going to
00:12:56
people he's been really rude to. I mean
00:12:59
this is just and they didn't anticipate
00:13:00
that they wouldn't be able to count on
00:13:02
their allies.
00:13:04
I I
00:13:05
>> didn't anticipate the Iran push back the
00:13:07
strength of the I mean he was advised by
00:13:10
by the way pretty much stories coming
00:13:12
out now are like he was told this he was
00:13:14
told this he was told they would do this
00:13:16
they would close the straight moves.
00:13:18
like everyone's leaking their the
00:13:20
out of things which is really I mean
00:13:22
what's interesting I I know it's the
00:13:24
smallest part of it but the lie about
00:13:26
presidents was weird was just weird like
00:13:30
why would you say that and then they all
00:13:32
say no and it looks like he's it's a lie
00:13:35
or he's talking to himself or whatever
00:13:38
it the whole thing seems like lies come
00:13:41
out of his mouth every day now that are
00:13:42
easily checkable like easily checkable
00:13:45
lies and that don't really work and so
00:13:47
Something's going on. Something's
00:13:49
happening in a way that's I mean, I
00:13:52
don't want to give him an excuse. Maybe
00:13:53
he's just a malevolent prick, but it
00:13:55
seems problematic that he's leading this
00:13:58
coalition of the one.
00:13:59
>> When you hire incompetent conspiracy
00:14:02
theorists, which is what Joe Kent is.
00:14:04
>> Mhm.
00:14:05
>> I mean, this is very upsetting for me as
00:14:07
someone, you know, quite frankly, as a
00:14:09
Jew, and that is
00:14:10
>> he immediately said that
00:14:12
>> that basically the largest military in
00:14:14
the world in the United States is being
00:14:16
manipulated by Jews. Mhm.
00:14:18
>> And this just plays into a very
00:14:19
anti-semitic trope being fermented on
00:14:21
the far right. And I don't I don't Megan
00:14:24
Kelly, there's a bunch of them, right?
00:14:26
>> Yeah. That this is all be this is all
00:14:27
Jews fault.
00:14:28
>> Yeah.
00:14:29
>> That is just what they were doing.
00:14:30
>> That's not helpful.
00:14:32
>> Yeah.
00:14:32
>> So,
00:14:33
>> it's one thing to be against the war and
00:14:35
I think there's some legitimate like
00:14:37
>> or to say has too much influence over. I
00:14:40
get it.
00:14:40
>> No, I get it. No, I'm just saying the
00:14:42
American first people can say we don't
00:14:43
like wars and but they do always take it
00:14:45
right into that. That was that that
00:14:48
Tucker Carlson's a dangerous person in
00:14:50
that regard, I'll tell you. Like
00:14:52
>> they're doing a video. They're like the
00:14:54
number whatever five at the,
00:14:56
>> you know, in our intelligence unit is is
00:14:59
saying what what Candace Owens and
00:15:01
Tucker Carlson are saying. It's the
00:15:02
Jews. We're being manipulated by the
00:15:05
Jews.
00:15:05
>> Yeah. It's problematic. It's
00:15:08
problematic. So what So oil prices, what
00:15:10
what is what actual impact is this going
00:15:12
to have on the economy as a whole? It's
00:15:14
immediate. I mean, unfortunately, and it
00:15:17
always happens. It hurts. It hurts uh
00:15:20
middle-income families and lower income.
00:15:22
Already, you're talking about an
00:15:24
increase for every dollar increase at
00:15:26
the pump. And it looks like we are going
00:15:27
to have about a dollar increase. It's
00:15:29
another $530 a year. And low-income
00:15:31
families spend almost, get this, 20% of
00:15:34
their income on home and auto energy
00:15:37
costs.
00:15:37
>> Yeah. And then the the residual effects
00:15:39
of food from everything. Every single
00:15:41
>> everything you touch is impacted.
00:15:43
everything got to you using some form of
00:15:45
fuel or or is consuming fuel
00:15:48
>> and it's going to probably spike
00:15:49
inflation an additional 100 bips um in
00:15:53
the short run. So
00:15:55
>> speaking speaking of which Jerome Powell
00:15:57
says he'll stay on his Fed chair until
00:15:58
his successor is confirmed by the
00:16:00
Senate. Even if that's after his term
00:16:02
expires he has every right to. It could
00:16:03
be a while. The Senate hasn't even
00:16:05
scheduled a hearing for Trump's nominee
00:16:07
Kevin Walsh. GOP Senator Tom Tillis, who
00:16:09
I'm talking to uh next week, says he
00:16:11
won't vote on confirmation until the DOJ
00:16:14
investigation on Powell is over. They've
00:16:16
they've been handed some um uh court
00:16:20
things, Janine Piro and the rest around
00:16:23
Powell. Uh for his part, and they're
00:16:24
appealing it, I think for his part,
00:16:26
Powell also says he'll stay on as Fed
00:16:28
governor, which I said he would,
00:16:30
remember I said this until the
00:16:31
investigation is well and truly over. Um
00:16:34
this is ex I thought he would do this.
00:16:36
He looks like he ran out of a long
00:16:38
time ago. Um, and well and truly over
00:16:40
means he could stay as long as he is a
00:16:42
while there on that Fed governor thing.
00:16:44
You know, as you noted many times,
00:16:46
enormous influence. So, he's the this is
00:16:49
the opposite of what Trump wanted and
00:16:51
he's stuck with Powell and Tillis, I can
00:16:53
tell you, is not give I mean is not
00:16:56
stopping at all at all. So
00:16:59
>> I think if it had been a different
00:17:01
president who' demonstrated more grace
00:17:03
to him, I don't doubt he would have
00:17:05
stepped down or if he'd said to him,
00:17:07
"Listen, I want you to be my chief
00:17:09
economic advisor. I I you know, I have a
00:17:12
even something more important for you."
00:17:13
But keep in mind, as long as Jerome Pal
00:17:15
is in the room, I've said this. There's
00:17:18
there's how you think there's the
00:17:19
governance structure and then there's
00:17:21
actually how boards and body politic
00:17:24
works. And this is how this is
00:17:26
essentially a board of directors. This
00:17:28
is how they work.
00:17:29
>> There's a bunch of them
00:17:31
>> in every board. There's 12 people, and
00:17:33
there's two people who matter.
00:17:35
>> There's the largest shareholder, which
00:17:37
doesn't doesn't
00:17:39
uh apply here. And then there's someone
00:17:41
who's so smart that everyone
00:17:43
they don't speak a lot. They listen a
00:17:44
lot, but when they speak, everyone has a
00:17:46
tendency to nod their head. and that
00:17:49
tell me the whatever it is the other 11
00:17:52
governors are going to when when Jerome
00:17:54
Pal says you know who whatever the the
00:17:57
chair is the person who
00:17:58
>> well he's going to run it I don't think
00:18:00
I think Tillis isn't G I I know Telus
00:18:02
isn't giving up he said it he's like he
00:18:04
Tillis now suddenly as you said his
00:18:06
balls and he's like no I'm going to do
00:18:08
the right thing for he's very offended
00:18:11
by the Jerome Powell thing I know that
00:18:12
and so I think it's he's a business
00:18:15
person he's a really well he had a you
00:18:17
know he was
00:18:18
even though you know he sounds like he's
00:18:20
like from the country smart guy
00:18:21
>> very smart guy is very stuck on this
00:18:24
Powell not putting uh wash through um
00:18:27
obviously he helped take down Christine
00:18:30
um I think there's there's such a push
00:18:32
back not just from our allies abroad but
00:18:34
here and if you're someone like Tom
00:18:36
Tillis and can stop this you do it like
00:18:39
why not what's what's the negative for
00:18:41
him there's nothing because he's now
00:18:43
because Trump tried pushed him out
00:18:45
essentially of the Senate and now he's
00:18:47
an enormous position of power and and
00:18:50
influence the same thing. And so
00:18:52
Powell's Powell is not going to bring
00:18:53
rates down, by the way, especially with
00:18:55
inflation up. So Trump has gotten the
00:18:57
opposite of everything he wanted. So
00:19:00
>> no, Cal said there was a 99% likelihood
00:19:03
they would not cut rates. But where I
00:19:05
was headed was I would bet 98% of the
00:19:09
decisions in the Fed from the board of
00:19:12
governors, regardless of who's in
00:19:14
charge, regardless of who takes the mic,
00:19:17
uh the new chair, whatever Jerome Pal
00:19:20
said was probably the right move in that
00:19:22
meeting is what they're going to do.
00:19:24
>> Yeah. This is the guy that had a Marylu
00:19:29
Retin like stick the landing of the
00:19:31
economy where he basically tamed
00:19:33
inflation
00:19:34
>> by 600 basis points while not going into
00:19:37
recession. like no one
00:19:39
>> in economics.
00:19:40
>> No,
00:19:41
>> you know,
00:19:43
and
00:19:44
>> I think Worsh is perfectly qualified,
00:19:45
but Trump now has Jerome Powell forever
00:19:47
like especially the dumb attack
00:19:49
>> another six or 12 years or something or
00:19:51
whatever. Basically,
00:19:53
>> he's going to stay there as the as the
00:19:55
head of it. It's just Anyway, it's it's
00:19:57
>> good for him.
00:19:58
>> Good for him.
00:19:59
>> I think he is I think he is lit the
00:20:01
first hero.
00:20:02
>> The first Medal of Freedom recipient.
00:20:04
>> Yeah, he's a hero. One, Democrats love
00:20:06
to show that they're bipartisan. It'll
00:20:08
probably be Vice President Spence will
00:20:10
be first, the first one, and the second
00:20:12
one will be Jerome Pal.
00:20:13
>> Vice President Spence. Who's
00:20:16
>> um Pence? I'm sorry.
00:20:17
>> Oh, Vice President Pence. Yeah. Oh,
00:20:19
that's a good idea. The two of them. Oh,
00:20:22
Pence does not get enough recogn.
00:20:26
>> Yes. Daddy. Dad. Father. I like father
00:20:29
at this point. Father is actually father
00:20:32
and Powell. No, that's that'll work for
00:20:34
me. Uh, okay, Scott, let's go on a quick
00:20:36
break. When we come back, we'll say
00:20:38
goodbye to the metaverse. We hardly knew
00:20:40
you at all.
00:20:43
>> Support for the show comes from
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00:22:27
Scott, we're back with more news. And
00:22:29
Meta is shutting down its VR metaverse
00:22:31
on June 15th. And legless people are
00:22:34
gone. The VR social network Horizon
00:22:36
Worlds never drew more than a couple
00:22:38
hundred thousand active users a month. I
00:22:40
mean, I think I think it was like a
00:22:42
thousand were using it by the end. Some
00:22:44
users reported that daily active users
00:22:46
actually dropped to under a thousand.
00:22:48
Who are those people? I want to meet
00:22:49
those people. Over 70 billion was spent
00:22:52
on the project over time. Uh you have
00:22:54
talked about this for a long time. I
00:22:56
never like the metaverse.
00:22:57
>> So some breaking news that broke after
00:22:59
the recording. Cara, we just learned
00:23:01
that Meta is not shutting down VR
00:23:04
support for Horizon Worlds. That's
00:23:06
according to an Instagram post from Meta
00:23:07
CTO Andrew Bosworth. He said there was
00:23:11
uh open quote a lot of misinformation
00:23:12
about the company's plans. We announced,
00:23:15
hey, we're moving away from Horizon
00:23:16
Worlds in VR. And the headline is that
00:23:18
Horizon is dead. He said it's not. And
00:23:21
likewise, VR is not dead. We're
00:23:24
continuing to invest tremendously.
00:23:26
Uh, this is weak sauce. We up.
00:23:29
Nana is on life support. And despite the
00:23:31
fact she might have brain waves, we're
00:23:32
pulling the plug soon. This is, in my
00:23:35
view, an attempt to uh backtrack and not
00:23:39
totally freak out the remaining
00:23:40
employees before they find them another
00:23:42
job or lay them off. This is this is
00:23:45
dead. uh in my view and uh you know uh
00:23:50
an attempt to if you will say no there's
00:23:53
still hope when they believe uh and
00:23:56
every indication here is that uh this
00:23:59
thing is maybe in hospice but be clear
00:24:02
it it's it's on the green mile of that
00:24:06
let's move on
00:24:07
>> while the press was fawning over the
00:24:08
idea you were not impressed let's take a
00:24:10
look at what you've said over the years
00:24:12
>> I was the original hater of headsets and
00:24:15
metaverse Web 3.0, the metaverse. It's
00:24:18
supposed to be the next dimension of the
00:24:20
internet.
00:24:20
>> I just love the fact that Mark
00:24:21
Zuckerberg is is showing up with
00:24:24
literally the biggest thud in
00:24:26
history.
00:24:27
>> I am proud to announce that starting
00:24:29
today, our company is now Meta.
00:24:34
>> I think this thing is already a giant
00:24:35
flaming bag of If it was working,
00:24:38
they'd be putting out all sorts of
00:24:39
numbers and press releases about people
00:24:42
signing up. You know, by the end of the
00:24:44
decade, we hope to basically get to
00:24:46
around a billion people in the metaverse
00:24:48
doing hundreds of of dollars of commerce
00:24:50
each.
00:24:50
>> If I were to try and devise a strategy
00:24:53
to weaken the corpus that is Facebook, I
00:24:56
would invent this distraction called the
00:24:58
metaverse and specifically the Oculus to
00:25:01
pour billions of dollars down a single.
00:25:03
>> They pivoted their entire company to the
00:25:05
metaverse. I think I mean if I had tried
00:25:07
to figure out a way to kneecap Meta
00:25:10
which is a net negative for society I
00:25:11
couldn't come up with a strategy as
00:25:13
brilliant as this.
00:25:14
>> Nice call Scott let me just say that.
00:25:16
Second of all I didn't like Meta because
00:25:18
the legless it was weird. Remember when
00:25:19
he introduced it was so weird and
00:25:21
awkward at the time. Um, one of the
00:25:24
things that's astonishing here is that
00:25:26
he could have this much of a loss and
00:25:27
still they're doing so well elsewhere um
00:25:32
that this $70 billion loss doesn't
00:25:34
matter and he's fed while other people
00:25:36
who have losses get slapped back to but
00:25:39
this is such a failure. Please, please
00:25:41
take a lap and conclude this chapter of
00:25:45
Mark Zuckerberg's life for us. care of
00:25:47
the fact that $70 billion in capex got
00:25:50
taken into a street and burned and that
00:25:52
people didn't want to live on a legless
00:25:53
future where they didn't want to be in a
00:25:55
place where 40% of them were within 20
00:25:58
minutes nauseous or that they further
00:26:00
separate from human I'm shocked Cara I'm
00:26:02
shocked this didn't work I I had big
00:26:05
hopes for it because anything Mark
00:26:06
Zuckerberg is clearly right
00:26:09
uh the scariest thing I think the
00:26:12
scariest thing about our economy other
00:26:14
than the income inequality is the fact
00:26:15
that we have now tied the fate of the
00:26:17
S&P and the 10% wealthiest households
00:26:21
who control the economy now and
00:26:23
government. We've tied it to our ability
00:26:25
to evolve a new species of asocial
00:26:28
asexual males and some females.
00:26:31
And the thing is this is this is a
00:26:34
healthy gag reflex for mammals. one, on
00:26:38
a very instinctive level, it's very
00:26:41
uncomfortable, especially for women, but
00:26:43
for everybody, when you're walking on
00:26:45
the sidewalk alone and you hear
00:26:47
footsteps behind you or the side of you,
00:26:50
>> because the things you can eat and the
00:26:52
things that can eat you don't come
00:26:53
straight at you. They have a habit of
00:26:54
coming from behind you or from the side.
00:26:57
>> And so your peripheral vision, and the
00:26:59
reason why billboards on the highway are
00:27:01
still a big business, is you notice
00:27:03
in your peripheral vision. You're very
00:27:04
subconsciously conscious of what's in
00:27:06
your peripheral vision or what isn't.
00:27:08
>> And when it's blocked with a headset,
00:27:11
>> you feel uncomfortable.
00:27:12
>> So, no, they never spoke to an
00:27:15
anthropologist
00:27:17
to say, "All right, what happens when we
00:27:20
invent a technology that from the moment
00:27:21
they turn it on, it's like if you turned
00:27:23
on your PC and it made you feel slightly
00:27:25
nauseous by turning it off."
00:27:27
>> Yes. Remember all those um those all all
00:27:29
of that stuff? Remember they showed it
00:27:30
at CES years ago where you looked at a
00:27:32
TV that was jumping out at you? It was
00:27:34
sickening and no one and never. It was a
00:27:36
big thing one year at CES and then it
00:27:38
wasn't. Let me ask you I'm going to ask
00:27:40
you a more challenging question. All
00:27:41
right. Look, we're going to have
00:27:42
immersive worlds, right, in some way.
00:27:44
And some of it is kind of cool. I
00:27:46
remember 20 years ago, Walt and I went
00:27:48
to Korea and went to either Sony or LG
00:27:51
and we were looking at these headsets in
00:27:52
movies.
00:27:54
Pretty cool. I remember thinking
00:27:56
that. And I wasn't nauseous. I went to
00:27:58
the sphere this week which I loved. I
00:28:00
saw the Dorothy thing and I thought it
00:28:02
was wonderful and we were all in the big
00:28:04
room and I have to say it was a lovely
00:28:06
communal experience because everyone was
00:28:08
laughing and they dropped apples out of
00:28:10
the sky and everything else. There is
00:28:13
something I want you to say what will
00:28:15
work here because there is an immersive
00:28:17
experience with screens that is very
00:28:21
satisfying. What would you if you had to
00:28:23
pick a business in this in the immersive
00:28:26
screens either on your head or in a
00:28:28
situation like the sphere which I think
00:28:29
is a spectacular achievement um in a lot
00:28:32
of ways and it's also beautiful on the
00:28:34
outside cuz it's delightful. Um what do
00:28:37
you what do you imagine that to be?
00:28:39
>> They're I don't think they'll ever be
00:28:41
big businesses care. I think they're
00:28:43
niche experiences. I think that our
00:28:45
species has gotten really used to and
00:28:48
comfortable with as bad as it is this
00:28:50
world. So IMAX is an immersive
00:28:52
experience, but it's never really lived
00:28:55
up to the potential outlined.
00:28:56
>> It's a good business though. It's a good
00:28:58
business.
00:28:58
>> Yeah, it's been quite frankly over the
00:29:00
last 40 years, it's been a shitty
00:29:01
business. IMAX
00:29:03
>> relative to the cost, it's been okay. I
00:29:06
love IMAX every time. That's what I do
00:29:08
when I take my I love seeing in
00:29:10
IMAX.
00:29:10
>> I'm going to see Project Hail Mary
00:29:12
tomorrow night.
00:29:13
>> It's a niche business. The only place I
00:29:16
want an immersive experience is when I'm
00:29:18
having my teeth cleaned by a hot single
00:29:20
mother, Brazilian single mother. And
00:29:22
then she puts on headset that I can
00:29:24
watch, heated rivalry,
00:29:26
>> right?
00:29:26
>> And she, you know, and then I start
00:29:28
crying cuz I start thinking about my mom
00:29:29
and I'm under the influence. I tell her
00:29:31
to when she says,
00:29:32
>> she says 1 to 10 nitrous. I go 12 baby.
00:29:36
>> 12 baby. I'll have it. So, but you don't
00:29:38
you like look, let me can I tell you
00:29:40
what I liked about like you're right.
00:29:41
They're experiential things. One of the
00:29:43
things that was cool about Spheres, I
00:29:45
have seen Wizard of Oz a million times
00:29:47
recently too because my little kids are
00:29:49
now watching it. So, it's not something
00:29:51
I want to see again and again. But one
00:29:53
of the things I thought was quite
00:29:54
beautiful was the ability to see things
00:29:56
in the movie that I never saw like some
00:29:58
of the beautiful costumes, some of the
00:30:00
beautiful, you know, set design and
00:30:03
oddly enough the faces of all the people
00:30:05
that weren't Dorothy like or the or the
00:30:08
main characters. It's like I found
00:30:10
myself looking at these beautiful faces
00:30:12
from another era, right? Like there was
00:30:14
two twins there that I never noticed.
00:30:16
And so one of the things I found it
00:30:18
wasn't just everyone was like, "Oh, the
00:30:20
tornado." And I was like, "That was
00:30:21
cool." But what was beautiful was I
00:30:24
could really see things in a way that I
00:30:26
appre in a way I appreciated. So it
00:30:28
there is something valuable about
00:30:30
immersive in some way like travel I
00:30:33
suppose if or or when you go to a theme
00:30:36
park and you you get on one of those
00:30:37
rides that you like you know you go you
00:30:39
soar past the Golden Gate Bridge. I love
00:30:41
all those things.
00:30:42
>> No look going into another world you
00:30:45
feel like an explorer. It's it's sensory
00:30:47
overload. It's really exciting and then
00:30:49
you want out.
00:30:50
>> Yeah.
00:30:50
>> Escape escape room is correctly named.
00:30:54
>> You wouldn't you wouldn't want to live
00:30:56
in this sphere. Your body can't handle
00:30:58
that much sens sensory stimulation. And
00:31:01
the sphere, by the way, similar to IMAX,
00:31:03
>> an amazing product,
00:31:05
>> it's not doing well economically.
00:31:07
>> Yeah.
00:31:08
>> So, the idea or even the ultimate
00:31:11
sensory experience, the ultimate moment
00:31:13
of awe supposedly according to
00:31:14
astronauts is to go into space and see
00:31:16
the world
00:31:17
>> from another perspective. But guess
00:31:19
what? What's the first thing they want
00:31:20
to do after a week?
00:31:21
>> They want to get home.
00:31:23
>> Yeah. So what what I think I wish
00:31:26
technology was more focused on I hate
00:31:30
this notion that we need to colonize
00:31:31
Mars. No, the real genius here is
00:31:34
something that's going to make this
00:31:35
place a little bit more
00:31:36
habitable.
00:31:38
>> I'm in Tulum staring out at palm trees
00:31:40
and coconuts and the sand, the sugary
00:31:42
sand,
00:31:43
>> and I'm in awe and I'm comfortable
00:31:46
>> and this is the only universe I
00:31:48
want to be in.
00:31:48
>> Yeah. No, I know it's I've never wanted
00:31:50
to go to the space anyway. It it look
00:31:52
it's a disaster. Mark, you you were
00:31:53
wrong and Scott was right. That's all I
00:31:55
have to say. Speaking of scaling back,
00:31:57
OpenAI is scaling back on projects and
00:31:59
focusing on coding and business uh
00:32:01
users. Pressure for the change comes
00:32:02
from competitors like Anthropic, which
00:32:04
you and I have been talking about,
00:32:05
dominating the business AI market.
00:32:07
Employees also felt the company's do
00:32:09
everything strategy led to a lack of
00:32:11
focus. Speaking of which, uh, OpenAI
00:32:13
delayed the launch of the adult mode,
00:32:15
which would allow sexually explicit
00:32:16
conversations due to concerns from
00:32:18
advisers over mental health risks. You
00:32:20
think also of concern, an age prediction
00:32:22
system that has been mclassifying minors
00:32:24
as adults 12% of the time. The feature
00:32:26
which the company still plans to release
00:32:28
eventually would be text only. Um this
00:32:31
is all the influence of Fiji Simo uh who
00:32:33
is the um is is the new top executive
00:32:36
there. Very similar when Errol Schmidt
00:32:38
came to Google. They they were sort of
00:32:40
chaotic and did everything the two
00:32:42
founders Larry and Sergey. Um and then
00:32:44
they brought uh Eric in to really clean
00:32:46
it up. seems sort of basic this you know
00:32:49
this this executive but they do have
00:32:51
done made like a million stupid
00:32:53
announcements and it does remind one of
00:32:55
Google in that regard thoughts
00:32:58
>> you're exactly right it's remember when
00:33:00
Google was doing like trying to
00:33:01
cure death and then I I feel like Eric
00:33:04
brought in managerial competence and how
00:33:06
to scale an organization but Ruth Pat
00:33:09
showed up and said all right mom is home
00:33:11
>> fun time's over the dog's pregnant and
00:33:13
the garage is on fire I'm in charge now
00:33:15
>> y And this is the right move for open
00:33:18
AI. And that is and by the way, and this
00:33:22
will go to my prediction, Anthropic is
00:33:24
now worth more than OpenAI. I don't care
00:33:25
what the last mark is on a preferred
00:33:28
funding, but Anthropic has surged to 19
00:33:32
billion in annual recurring revenue up
00:33:34
from 14 billion just a couple weeks ago.
00:33:37
6 billion in AR was added just in
00:33:39
February. Open AI AR was 20 billion at
00:33:43
the end of 2025.
00:33:45
And here's the key. It's all about the
00:33:46
enterprise because they're the only ones
00:33:48
that are willing to make these huge
00:33:49
investments. And an and get this car
00:33:52
anthropic enterprise market share has
00:33:53
increased to 32% surpassing
00:33:57
OpenAI's 25%. And since 2023,
00:34:01
enterprise AI revenue has exploded from
00:34:04
1.7 billion
00:34:05
>> to 37 billion. Yeah, they've got to be
00:34:08
the open AI is really
00:34:09
>> and then the other the other the other
00:34:11
staggering statistic here that is why
00:34:13
open AI is focusing which is the right
00:34:16
thing to do
00:34:17
>> is anthropic is now capturing
00:34:20
>> three out of four new spending in
00:34:24
enterprise AI.
00:34:26
>> So they're getting 73% of all spending
00:34:28
among companies buying AI tools for the
00:34:30
first time.
00:34:31
>> Yeah.
00:34:32
>> And 10 weeks ago the split with open AI
00:34:34
was 5050. So get this
00:34:38
get this hag Seth
00:34:39
>> it was 6040 in open AI's favor as
00:34:42
recently as early December from so from
00:34:44
December to now it's gone from 6040 to
00:34:49
20 to 2773.
00:34:52
>> Yeah.
00:34:52
>> So they are they are literally losing
00:34:54
the enterprise market.
00:34:56
>> Yeah. So it's starting to feel like open
00:34:58
is Netscape not Google. Right. That's
00:35:00
how it
00:35:01
>> that's an interesting analogy you've
00:35:02
seen. I just I was there when Google was
00:35:04
the first bout of chaos was at the
00:35:06
beginning and there was you know there
00:35:08
was a cover of Fortune magazine chaos at
00:35:10
Google and of course Ruth also shut down
00:35:12
all their all manner they had so many
00:35:14
ridiculous they were doing and they
00:35:16
could do it just like Mark with with the
00:35:18
metaverse because they had all this
00:35:20
money but it was like dumb like it was
00:35:22
at the time when they would have you in
00:35:24
and I was always like this seems dumb
00:35:26
like why are you doing this like why
00:35:28
don't you stick with your business and
00:35:29
they just wanted to be more creative or
00:35:31
more something more interesting in some
00:35:33
fashion. But it's really interesting
00:35:35
because this is at a time when I think
00:35:37
you know anthropics been under pressure
00:35:40
from the government but in the end they
00:35:42
will soar and Pete Hagsath will be a you
00:35:45
know a a sad little footnote a sad
00:35:48
little drunken footnote in our history.
00:35:50
Um anyway we'll see what happens. Um
00:35:53
speaking of someone who won't be a
00:35:54
footnote I would say is Bob Iger stepped
00:35:56
down as Disney CEO again. Iger passed
00:35:59
the baton to his successor Josh Demorro
00:36:01
at Disney's annual shareholder meeting
00:36:03
this week. Tomorrow, a 28-year-old
00:36:05
veteran of the company, was most
00:36:06
recently head of Disney Experiences,
00:36:08
which includes parks, cruises, and
00:36:09
resorts. Iger is set to stay on as an
00:36:12
adviser and board member until the end
00:36:13
of 2026. Not very long. It's unclear
00:36:16
what he'll do after that. Before the
00:36:17
last time he left, he did a bunch of
00:36:19
advising and sailing around on a boat in
00:36:21
the South Seas. Um, uh, I last time he
00:36:24
retired, which I said he wasn't going to
00:36:26
stay retired, I asked him whether he
00:36:27
planned to get into politics. Let's
00:36:29
listen to what he told me in 2022.
00:36:32
Would you ever run for office?
00:36:34
>> Uh, I'm not planning to run for office.
00:36:36
>> That is that a no?
00:36:38
>> That's just what I said. I'm not.
00:36:39
>> Okay. All right. Fine. I think you are.
00:36:41
Um, so last thing. Um, you should I I
00:36:44
don't usually I usually do not tell
00:36:46
another white guy, "Oh, please run for
00:36:48
office. We don't have enough of you."
00:36:49
But I think you would be an excellent
00:36:51
because I think you'd be an excellent
00:36:52
politician because I don't think you
00:36:53
give a Uh anyway, I don't think
00:36:55
he's going to run for office. Actually,
00:36:57
I don't I can't imagine he's going to do
00:36:58
that. Um but what do you think his next
00:37:01
act will will be? Uh I mean, he
00:37:03
certainly had his ups and downs and the
00:37:05
stock has not reflected much of it.
00:37:07
Although I do think he did a lot around
00:37:09
digital. I think he did a lot around
00:37:10
streaming. Um I think he was a very good
00:37:14
CEO for much of his tenure and not so
00:37:16
good in other things. I think probably
00:37:18
the Fox purchase is one people point to
00:37:20
as being problematic, but in general,
00:37:23
pretty good tenure. Um, especially
00:37:25
around streaming. I I think that he made
00:37:27
those moves. Um, what do you think his
00:37:29
next act should be?
00:37:30
>> Hit the golf course and enjoy his life.
00:37:32
And I I would call challenge on his
00:37:34
tenure, Cara, because
00:37:35
>> Okay.
00:37:36
>> The last 10 years have been the most
00:37:38
prosperous in the history of the world
00:37:40
for American companies, and his stock is
00:37:42
below where it was 10 years ago. And at
00:37:44
the end of the day, as a CEO,
00:37:46
>> that's your what you're evaluated.
00:37:47
That's your kind of metrics 1, two, and
00:37:49
three. He quite frankly, he really
00:37:52
up. He's the guy who went to
00:37:54
Vietnam, completed his tour honorably,
00:37:56
came home with medals pinned to his
00:37:57
chest. He could be a viable candidate
00:38:00
for the Democratic nomination right now,
00:38:02
but he's more he looks less like Mark
00:38:04
Cuban and more like Cheryl Samberg.
00:38:06
>> And that is his second tenure. First
00:38:09
off, he was heckling from the cheap
00:38:10
seats. He left and never really left the
00:38:12
room, but convinced the board, as far as
00:38:14
I can tell, to fire the new guy and put
00:38:16
me back in like some returning hero. And
00:38:18
he has had huge wins in his face. But
00:38:22
Disney has become
00:38:24
Disney has gone from being probably the
00:38:26
most iconic company in the creative
00:38:28
community. To a certain extent, it
00:38:29
represents what's happened to the
00:38:30
creative community. And that is distinct
00:38:32
of how incredible it is and their great
00:38:35
IP and their great creativity. It's been
00:38:37
bad for shareholders and it's probably
00:38:39
been a difficult place to work the last
00:38:41
10 years. And he did he did make a lot
00:38:44
of the right moves. He launched a
00:38:46
streaming network. He invested in the
00:38:47
parks. But at the end of the day, his
00:38:50
last 10 years, there was a there was
00:38:52
never a clear succession path. He
00:38:54
started to feel a little bit like I
00:38:56
forget the name of that guy at City CR
00:38:58
that anytime someone got near him, got
00:39:00
shot in the head. So he leaves. He's
00:39:04
very likable. He's very smooth. Had he
00:39:07
stayed away and then just let someone
00:39:10
else run with it, I think he'd probably
00:39:12
be a cabinet member, maybe even by, you
00:39:15
know, in the next administration at a
00:39:17
minimum. Now he's Now he's the guy that
00:39:21
quite frankly took Disney. I he he
00:39:25
didn't take the stock anywhere. I get
00:39:26
that. I I understand. I think doing the
00:39:28
streaming stuff was critical to its
00:39:30
future and he definitely pushed that
00:39:31
through. Like I I was there watching. I
00:39:33
mean, he made a number of dumb digital
00:39:35
moves over the years. They kept changing
00:39:36
Disney Bu a Vista when he I mean, I was
00:39:39
I wrote stories on every one of them and
00:39:41
but I do think directionally very few
00:39:44
people leaned into digital and streaming
00:39:46
the way he did, right? And I think
00:39:47
>> Oh, I don't know. I would argue Netflix
00:39:49
leaned in.
00:39:49
>> Well, Netflix, of course. No, no. Yes.
00:39:51
No, they should have bought Netflix when
00:39:52
they had the chance and they everybody
00:39:54
had the chance at one point, but yeah,
00:39:56
you're right. Netflix was in the in the
00:39:58
right position. But you are dragging
00:40:00
around a legacy organization makes makes
00:40:02
it very hard
00:40:03
>> a legacy organization that had the
00:40:05
world's best IP. I mean
00:40:07
>> Netflix so okay so Disney in the last 10
00:40:12
years has market returns of of zero and
00:40:18
Netflix is up four I'm sorry it's up
00:40:23
600%. Yeah. Yep.
00:40:26
>> Granted, the other studios have not
00:40:28
fared any better,
00:40:30
>> right?
00:40:30
>> But with that IP, with the Parks or Cash
00:40:34
Flow,
00:40:36
>> Yeah. Look, Bob, what's the lesson here?
00:40:41
The lesson is the following, and I think
00:40:43
about this a lot. Mhm.
00:40:44
>> It is very hard to pull off the ultimate
00:40:48
gangster move for your brand when you're
00:40:49
in a position of power and you're doing
00:40:51
well, and that is to leave the party too
00:40:54
early.
00:40:56
Um, and that is people have a tendency
00:40:59
when they're doing well and they're so
00:41:01
iconic as Bob Iger is and was to think
00:41:04
to just stay too long.
00:41:06
>> Yeah.
00:41:06
>> You want to leave the stage while people
00:41:08
are clapping. You want to leave a party
00:41:10
10 minutes too early. You want to leave
00:41:11
the Vanity Fair Oscar party at midnight,
00:41:14
not at 4:00 a.m. when you're wandering
00:41:15
around alone. And it's clear Emily
00:41:16
Rodikowski is not going to speak to you.
00:41:19
>> Was she there?
00:41:21
>> By the way, at one point I was sitting
00:41:23
at the bar.
00:41:23
>> We didn't talk about this cuz you were
00:41:24
blabbing away to all your other
00:41:26
>> I was sitting at the bar, no joke, in
00:41:28
between John Ham, who's quite handsome,
00:41:31
and Jacob Allerty, who is even more
00:41:33
handsome and much taller.
00:41:35
>> Yeah. Emily started walking towards the
00:41:37
bar and all I could think of is there's
00:41:39
no way she's coming to me right
00:41:40
now. Yeah. No way. I'm like
00:41:43
>> I'm like the price is right.
00:41:45
>> This is the real Emily. You saw her.
00:41:48
>> Oh yeah. Trust me. I saw her.
00:41:50
>> Okay.
00:41:51
>> Uh yeah. By the way, she looks she looks
00:41:53
pretty good. She looks pretty.
00:41:55
>> So wait, what happened? Wait, the I I
00:41:57
only want the Ratikowski part. Go ahead.
00:42:00
>> Nothing. She did. She just walked up and
00:42:01
had a drink. And at some point I'm like,
00:42:02
I I want to be the professor, not the
00:42:05
stalker.
00:42:06
>> So, uh, but my favorite moment is
00:42:08
>> You didn't say hello.
00:42:09
>> I'm too intimidated.
00:42:11
>> Oh my god.
00:42:12
>> I said hi to I said hi to Morin Dow and
00:42:15
Caitlyn Collins. Those are my friends.
00:42:16
>> I saw that.
00:42:18
>> Those are That's who I hang out with.
00:42:19
And the Smartless guys. Those guys are
00:42:21
fun. I like those guys.
00:42:22
>> Those are fun.
00:42:23
>> And they they're like they feel sorry.
00:42:24
The only people that come up to me are
00:42:26
like think of me as an intellect. They
00:42:27
think, "Oh, it's so cute. They have a
00:42:29
professor here. Let's go be nice to him.
00:42:31
That's our charity for the night. And
00:42:33
everybody comes up to me and says, I
00:42:34
have sons and I very much appreciate
00:42:36
your work. And then they say, oh, can I
00:42:37
meet, you know, can can can I meet Jud
00:42:40
Appatile now? I mean, I'm convinced half
00:42:43
the people half the people talking to me
00:42:46
>> Yeah.
00:42:46
>> were checking themselves out in the
00:42:48
reflection of my glasses.
00:42:49
>> Oh no.
00:42:51
>> I can't believe you didn't speak to
00:42:52
Emily Rat.
00:42:53
>> By the way, that party.
00:42:55
>> Yeah.
00:42:55
>> Vanity Fair.
00:42:56
>> Yeah.
00:42:57
>> Those people are geniuses. I'm going to
00:42:59
subscribe twice. Okay. The the the
00:43:02
environment they pulled together that
00:43:03
night.
00:43:04
>> Yeah. It's nice. It's a nice part.
00:43:05
>> I would I think it's the most
00:43:06
aspirational environment I've ever been
00:43:08
in in my life. I just couldn't get over
00:43:10
the wardrobe, the environment, the food,
00:43:13
the vibe.
00:43:13
>> You've always done a good job.
00:43:14
>> I just saw it uh the new editor in
00:43:17
Unbelievable.
00:43:18
>> Mark. Yeah.
00:43:19
>> Yeah. Mark just is an amazing handsome
00:43:21
guy, too.
00:43:22
>> Yeah. I have to say they've always had a
00:43:24
good party. They they've been good at
00:43:25
that under under all their different
00:43:27
editors. I think it's been
00:43:28
>> And I got to hang out with Larry David.
00:43:29
It's like angry meet depressed.
00:43:30
Depressed meet angry.
00:43:31
>> Oh my god, you look alike. What
00:43:33
happened? Was there like a moment?
00:43:35
>> Larry and I are friends now.
00:43:37
>> Oh, you're friends.
00:43:37
>> We totally got along. Okay. All right.
00:43:39
>> Yeah, we hit it off. And by the way, the
00:43:41
Larry David Show is really the David
00:43:43
Larry David Show. He's like, that's
00:43:45
exactly who he is.
00:43:47
>> He's like, what's the point of an Oscar?
00:43:48
He just starts into a and you're
00:43:50
like, okay, here we are.
00:43:51
>> He has a new show that looks hysterical
00:43:53
that he did with the Obamas about
00:43:54
history.
00:43:55
>> My very lovely wife, too. Anyways, I
00:43:57
very much
00:43:58
>> I don't know. Was Bob Iger there?
00:44:01
Because it was
00:44:02
>> I did not see Bob. I did not sense a
00:44:04
Kashmir sweater or tuxedo anywhere.
00:44:06
>> Uh but the thing is you walk in and they
00:44:09
like do you want to do a red carpet in
00:44:10
Morningington? It's like I'm not doing a
00:44:11
red carpet. I'm like I am so doing the
00:44:13
red carpet and they have
00:44:14
>> Yeah. So you had
00:44:15
>> hundreds of photographers and there's
00:44:17
three X's and I guess you're supposed to
00:44:20
go to one X.
00:44:21
>> Yeah.
00:44:21
>> And take pictures.
00:44:23
>> Yeah.
00:44:23
>> I didn't know that. So, I go to the
00:44:24
first X and they're like, "Hello,
00:44:26
professor and they're all nice." And I'm
00:44:28
like, "Now I'm going to go to the second
00:44:29
X and sit here and pose.
00:44:30
>> Get the out of here."
00:44:31
>> And then I go to the third X and by the
00:44:32
time I got to the third X, I realized
00:44:34
everyone's like, "What the is this
00:44:35
guy doing?"
00:44:38
>> And one of the one of the photographers
00:44:40
just out of a moment of like feeling
00:44:41
sorry for me, kind of waved me along.
00:44:43
He's like, "You're supposed to go to
00:44:44
just one X."
00:44:45
>> And I turned red. I'm a bad celebrity.
00:44:48
>> Oh my god. Can I ask you one question?
00:44:49
Did you see Jeff Bezos? He was there
00:44:51
looking.
00:44:52
>> I saw him with Lauren. I thought they
00:44:53
looked great. I don't
00:44:54
>> No, I didn't. I thought they
00:44:55
>> I don't mind Jeff's midlife crisis. I'm
00:44:58
here for it.
00:44:58
>> I know. But did you say hello?
00:45:00
>> I said hello to all three of them. I
00:45:01
mean, I said Yeah. No. No. I said hello.
00:45:04
>> Um I did not. I'm tell I'm intimidated.
00:45:07
Unless people come up to me, I'm
00:45:08
intimidated. I don't like
00:45:10
>> gone and said Carara says hello. That
00:45:11
that in that one you could have done
00:45:13
that.
00:45:13
>> That's like hi. My rich father knows
00:45:16
you. I just don't want to do that. I
00:45:17
don't know.
00:45:18
>> He doesn't like me. I would be bad. He
00:45:19
would
00:45:20
>> I literally freaked out at about
00:45:21
midnight. And I'm like, this is the best
00:45:23
party of my life. I need to go home and
00:45:25
take a Xanax and just recover from all
00:45:26
the I feel like a kid who candy store
00:45:29
for 8 hours.
00:45:30
>> Did you? I can't believe my only note is
00:45:32
I can't believe you didn't say hello to
00:45:34
Emily Ratowski. You're a loser. You're a
00:45:36
loser. Anyway, Bob Iger's next act very
00:45:39
quickly.
00:45:40
>> He'll go on a couple boards and he'll
00:45:42
enjoy his life and he deserves to do all
00:45:43
of this. Hang out with his lovely wife
00:45:46
and speak at USC's film school.
00:45:48
>> He's got to do something else. I think
00:45:49
it's something else. Let me tell you,
00:45:50
when he was
00:45:51
>> Bob is 74, 73.
00:45:53
>> He is in really good shape. When he
00:45:55
looks really good, when he was in the
00:45:56
last one, he texted me far too much. And
00:45:58
I was like, I think you need to do
00:45:59
something else cuz I think he's got
00:46:01
another thing in him. I don't know what
00:46:02
it is.
00:46:03
>> I know. He's 75. Yeah.
00:46:04
>> Yeah. He could be in the cabinet. He
00:46:06
could be in a
00:46:07
>> Well, what is that? 77
00:46:10
head. Yeah.
00:46:11
>> Could be the head. Could he be the
00:46:12
commerce secretary? I don't know.
00:46:13
>> I don't know. He probably doesn't want
00:46:14
to. What do you need that for
00:46:16
anyway? If he wants to help people,
00:46:18
>> ambassador to France and throw amazing
00:46:19
parties at like the the US residents.
00:46:23
>> That's perfect. Ambassador to France.
00:46:25
Let's do it. Bob, we're going to send
00:46:26
you to France. Anyway, let's go on a
00:46:28
quick break. When we come back, we'll
00:46:30
talk about Khi facing criminal charges.
00:46:32
Your favorite groups of people there,
00:46:34
Scott.
00:46:36
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00:47:35
Scott, we're back with more news. Kelshi
00:47:37
is facing criminal charges in Arizona
00:47:39
where prosecutors say the prediction
00:47:40
market platform illegally let people bet
00:47:42
without a gambling license. Keli says
00:47:44
the charges are meritless and said they
00:47:46
should be regulated federally rather
00:47:47
than by individual states. The case is
00:47:49
the first criminal prosecution against a
00:47:51
prediction market company. It's more to
00:47:52
come. I actually when I was at South by
00:47:54
South met met with the California
00:47:56
Attorney General who today um did a
00:47:59
lawsuit uh one of the lawsuits against
00:48:01
the Nextar um the Nextar whatever that
00:48:05
ridiculous merger was. Um in any case
00:48:08
this is the states have been regulating
00:48:10
gambling for year like forever for
00:48:12
decades. So it's not meritless. Um so
00:48:15
what what do you think does this because
00:48:17
what was interesting another story
00:48:19
popped up which I found fascinating.
00:48:20
Times of Israel reporter received death
00:48:22
threats from gamblers on poly market
00:48:24
after reporting an Iranian missile
00:48:26
strike that affected a high stakes
00:48:27
prediction market bet. Some betters
00:48:28
tried to pressure him to change the
00:48:30
story so the market would resolve in
00:48:32
their favor. And let me just say it feel
00:48:35
this is a topic people are really
00:48:36
interested in. I'll read an email from
00:48:38
one of our listeners. I'm a journalist
00:48:39
and a fan of the show. I don't
00:48:41
understand why I'm hearing Kelie
00:48:42
percentages cited during the show as
00:48:44
it's anything. It's people guessing. I
00:48:46
think it's more harmful than helpful.
00:48:47
That's you doing it, Scott. I don't do
00:48:48
that. I agree with you. Um what do you
00:48:50
think about these markets shifting from
00:48:52
predicting events to actively
00:48:54
influencing them in certain given the
00:48:56
gaming part easily gamed uh unregulated
00:49:01
bad actors it is gambling um and
00:49:04
gambling is very well regulated. So what
00:49:07
do you think about that?
00:49:08
>> I think there's some truth to all of
00:49:10
that. I I'm this is one of those things
00:49:11
I'm hugely conflicted by because I am
00:49:13
absolutely fascinated with the data
00:49:15
where I would push back on the listener
00:49:18
is oh no this data is incredibly
00:49:20
insightful
00:49:22
um the wisdom this is the wisdom of
00:49:23
crowds this is this does illuminate
00:49:26
whenever I'm looking at political races
00:49:29
whenever I'm looking at interest rate
00:49:31
movements I go to I go to
00:49:32
>> a trailing indicator you don't think
00:49:34
it's a trailing indicator
00:49:35
>> it's pretty much up to date and the
00:49:36
thing about money and the thing about
00:49:38
looking at Typically the people who did
00:49:41
this stuff were were academics,
00:49:43
economists or an investment banking
00:49:46
analyst. All of them are conflicted. All
00:49:48
of them want to catastrophize because it
00:49:50
makes us look smarter. All of us have
00:49:51
third party influences. Nothing is more
00:49:54
amoral and pure than money. It just when
00:49:58
someone bets on something, it really
00:50:01
shows you what they really think is
00:50:02
going to happen. And if you look at it's
00:50:05
these comp these speculative markets,
00:50:07
speculation markets or prediction
00:50:08
markets have essentially put pollsters
00:50:10
into a certain extent investment banking
00:50:12
analysts out of work because guess what?
00:50:14
They're much
00:50:14
>> kind of I I would push back on that. I
00:50:16
just met with a bunch of pollsters on
00:50:17
this topic, but go ahead.
00:50:18
>> In my opinion, they're done. They if you
00:50:20
look at if you look at if you look at
00:50:21
the prediction markets record versus
00:50:24
pollsters in the last election, the
00:50:26
prediction markets kicked their ass.
00:50:28
Absolutely. I love the data. I am
00:50:32
swimming in the data. It's one of the
00:50:33
first things I do before I get on a show
00:50:36
is I look at I look at Cali data. Cal
00:50:40
I'm totally conflicted because at the
00:50:42
same time
00:50:43
>> Mhm.
00:50:44
>> there's a really good argument that this
00:50:45
is just gambling. Now what
00:50:48
>> what's happening is they're being
00:50:49
charged with four counts of election
00:50:50
wagering.
00:50:52
>> Um is the the debate is over the
00:50:55
fundamental definition of gambling
00:50:57
versus event contracts. and Arizona
00:50:59
charges claim that putting money on a
00:51:01
contingent future event or occurrence is
00:51:03
illegal. But at the same time, Car, if
00:51:05
that's true, then traditional options
00:51:09
would be illegal. And that here's the
00:51:12
problem or the issue.
00:51:15
Gambling and tapping into a prefrontal
00:51:19
cortex, an immature prefrontal cortex
00:51:21
that is dopah hungry and susceptible,
00:51:25
uh, in some ways there's just no getting
00:51:26
around it. feels predatory
00:51:28
and unhealthy. So what do you do? Do you
00:51:31
infantilize? I think Khi is trying to be
00:51:33
the the clean the cleanest best lit
00:51:36
place of this. They're not doing
00:51:38
contracts on things like war
00:51:40
>> whereas Poly Market is off offshore and
00:51:43
Kelsey is trying to get licensed by the
00:51:45
same people who license the options
00:51:47
exchange.
00:51:49
>> But I I want to hear what you think. I
00:51:52
have no more clarity around.
00:51:53
>> I think the states have been regulating
00:51:55
gambling forever. So I think that's
00:51:56
nonsense that they should if this if
00:51:58
gambling is going on they need to it's
00:52:00
it reminds me
00:52:01
>> they're approving it. They're approving
00:52:02
it everywhere
00:52:03
>> proving it in different places.
00:52:05
>> States have been approving gambling all
00:52:08
over the place.
00:52:08
>> They are but so they need to be
00:52:09
regulated in the same way. Like it's
00:52:11
it's my thing with everything. It's like
00:52:12
if open is giving legal, medical or
00:52:16
psychological advice, they need to be
00:52:18
subject to the same rules people are
00:52:20
right the same everybody. Like I I was
00:52:23
in Vegas for a second. I have to tell
00:52:24
you you're absolutely right. It's dead.
00:52:26
Vegas is dead. Like I
00:52:27
>> You need to be in Vegas. Vegas is in
00:52:28
your pocket.
00:52:29
>> That's right. I was like I literally
00:52:30
like Oh my god, Scott was right. It was
00:52:32
so freaky to be in Vegas without people.
00:52:34
It felt like I was in like Plurabus,
00:52:36
right? It was so weird. And you could
00:52:39
feel the the innovation of a place that
00:52:41
is just with these big rooms and the
00:52:44
casinos empty. It's weird. And so it's
00:52:47
it's definitely hurting businesses,
00:52:48
right? these kind of things, whether
00:52:50
it's sports betting online or this kind
00:52:52
of thing, there's they need to be
00:52:54
regulated the same way everybody else
00:52:56
is. And and states have every right to
00:52:58
do this. This is this is not and maybe
00:53:01
there should be federal gambling laws,
00:53:02
but there haven't been really.
00:53:04
>> I think that would be good. I think they
00:53:05
would want that. I think they want some
00:53:06
regulation.
00:53:07
>> Yes.
00:53:07
>> But let me ask you let me ask you a more
00:53:10
old tech company said, "Oh, we please
00:53:11
bring us regulation."
00:53:12
>> I think I actually think they're I think
00:53:14
they're I think they would actually
00:53:16
please bring us regulation.
00:53:18
Let me ask you this. You have sons.
00:53:20
>> I think about this a lot. Let's be
00:53:22
clear, much of this is gambling.
00:53:25
>> Yeah.
00:53:25
>> Uh and and it and but at the same time,
00:53:28
do you infantilize children? And I I I
00:53:31
know firsthand as someone who
00:53:32
appreciates data. There is real value in
00:53:36
this data.
00:53:37
>> There is. It can also be easily gained.
00:53:40
So easily
00:53:41
in it. There's a lot of potential for
00:53:43
insider trading. But the more liquid
00:53:45
markets, people are more greedy. Anyway,
00:53:48
huge potential for insider trading. I
00:53:49
get it. But let me ask you this.
00:53:51
>> Mhm.
00:53:52
>> Do you think it should be they should be
00:53:54
put out of business, regulated, or let
00:53:56
to just run free?
00:53:58
>> Regulated.
00:53:58
>> And what does that mean?
00:54:00
>> I'm not sure. I'm not I'm not an expert
00:54:01
on this, but I feel like how are g I
00:54:03
want to know how gambling things are
00:54:05
regulated and how
00:54:06
>> age getting to 21 would be one good
00:54:08
start, right?
00:54:10
>> Possibly. Yes. 21. It's interesting.
00:54:12
Yes. Yes. Yes. actually on certain
00:54:14
parts, other parts it's fine. But yes,
00:54:16
agegating would be one thing and it's
00:54:18
not infantilizing. We do it all the time
00:54:21
with with with real businesses. And so
00:54:24
what
00:54:25
>> foreign, alcohol, military,
00:54:26
>> what upsets me is we're different. All
00:54:29
it's the same it's the same song and
00:54:31
dance from all internet companies. We're
00:54:33
different. We don't deserve the same.
00:54:35
And they get unfair advantage here. Um
00:54:38
as to
00:54:38
>> who gets unfair advantage.
00:54:40
>> These these these markets get unfair
00:54:41
advantage. It made me very
00:54:44
uncomfortable, for example, when uh CNN
00:54:47
and others sign deals with them because
00:54:49
I'm like because I don't think they know
00:54:50
how to use them properly. That's the
00:54:52
other thing. It can be so
00:54:54
>> it's not reporting like it's not it's
00:54:56
some it's an indicator. It's a data
00:54:58
point, but it's not I guess I don't like
00:55:01
them doing polls either. So, I guess I I
00:55:04
just I find it very weak and it can be
00:55:06
very influential in a way. And so I just
00:55:09
feel like it it it obviously needs to
00:55:11
have some regulatory thing with my sons.
00:55:13
They don't actually they're not they're
00:55:14
not big bettors. I don't I'm not I don't
00:55:17
know why. I mean I I get that why like I
00:55:19
was in Vegas for two days and I didn't
00:55:21
bet once. Like I was like I walked right
00:55:23
through the casinos. But that's me. Um
00:55:25
but I just feel like it's the death
00:55:27
threat. This reporter thing was a really
00:55:29
interesting thing. Like this this has
00:55:31
implications that have been around since
00:55:34
the dawn of time. The these and and they
00:55:36
think they're different. And so how I
00:55:38
think we need to have more transparency
00:55:40
into how they're doing things. I think
00:55:42
they should have you know they shouldn't
00:55:44
bet on deaths like I mean they they
00:55:46
shouldn't be I don't know if we should
00:55:48
make them not do it or if you say okay
00:55:51
you're going to do that.
00:55:52
>> Yeah. But to be fair I do think Cali has
00:55:54
said we're not going to we're not going
00:55:56
to create markets and things like war
00:55:58
that might involve an incentive that
00:56:00
might involve death or
00:56:01
>> geopolitical. That's the kind of stuff
00:56:03
but there's going to be someone who's
00:56:04
going to. So maybe we need some laws,
00:56:07
right? Anyway, we we have to move on.
00:56:09
It's a really interesting it's a
00:56:10
developing situation, but I think it's
00:56:12
in every state's rights to do this. So
00:56:14
Ky should stop being so like high-handed
00:56:16
with them. Of course, they're going to
00:56:17
come in. It's affecting things. So um
00:56:20
this is exactly why the government
00:56:21
should come in in some fashion. At least
00:56:23
think about it, have hearings, talk
00:56:24
about it, and and let's discuss the
00:56:26
things. Um just before we finish, this
00:56:29
is the last thing. Uber plans to invest
00:56:31
$1.2 $2 billion in Rivian as part of a
00:56:33
deal to deploy 50,000 robo taxis. I
00:56:36
recently spoke with uh Rivian founder
00:56:38
and CEO RJ Scaring on on with Care
00:56:41
Swisser. I also saw him for an extended
00:56:43
amount of time at South by Southwest.
00:56:45
Let's listen to a clip where he talked
00:56:47
about self-driving.
00:56:48
>> If you're a customer and you have a
00:56:49
choice of I can buy a car for 35 $40,000
00:56:52
and it can, you know, drop me at the
00:56:54
airport, it can go to the grocery store
00:56:55
to pick up, you know, stuff for me. It
00:56:58
can drop a friend at a house. it can do
00:57:00
all those things or a car that doesn't
00:57:02
do that. It's it's going to be very
00:57:04
binary where I think there'll be very
00:57:06
few people that will self- select to say
00:57:09
I don't want those features. Even folks
00:57:11
who are not comfortable with the idea of
00:57:13
self-driving once you experience it one
00:57:14
or two times.
00:57:15
>> It does. I try to say that to everybody.
00:57:17
>> It's so sticky because you get your time
00:57:19
back. Suddenly you can be reading a book
00:57:21
on your phone. It's it's just so sticky.
00:57:23
>> I my one way of convincing one person
00:57:26
I'm like who likes to party. I'm like,
00:57:28
you can you can text and drink.
00:57:30
>> I don't know what to say. There's my
00:57:32
that's my sale for you. I think that was
00:57:34
you I was talking about. Um it was
00:57:36
really it was super interesting. I think
00:57:38
it's a real blow again to Tesla. Um and
00:57:40
I I I drove the Rivian 2 at um South by
00:57:43
Southwest. I also they have a really
00:57:45
nifty bike called Also, which I liked a
00:57:48
lot. Um I really like the Rivian. I I
00:57:51
think he's interesting. I think he's a
00:57:53
great spokesperson for this stuff. Um,
00:57:56
and they're wonderful. It's a wonderful
00:57:58
I may buy one. I may buy an R2 um
00:58:00
because I was super impressed with it.
00:58:02
Um, in any case, it's a really
00:58:04
interesting um move by Uber who needs to
00:58:06
get into this business and uh and uh and
00:58:09
it's a good thing for Rivian who, you
00:58:11
know, it's a tough struggle to get these
00:58:13
cars to get a car company going. Um,
00:58:15
your thoughts on Rivian?
00:58:17
>> I I think it's a win-win. I I think it's
00:58:20
uh Rivian is subscale. Automobile
00:58:22
platforms cost so many billions to
00:58:23
produce. I think Rivian has done as good
00:58:25
a job as anyone. I'm moving when I move
00:58:28
back to the US. I'm going to if I buy a
00:58:31
car and I've really enjoyed not having a
00:58:33
car for four years, I'm probably going
00:58:34
to buy a Rivian.
00:58:36
>> The two is nice. It's smaller.
00:58:37
>> I was one of those people that put 5,000
00:58:39
bucks down on it like five, six years
00:58:41
ago and never took delivery of it. By
00:58:43
the way, I should probably look into
00:58:44
that.
00:58:45
>> Um, new couch market. What's the
00:58:48
likelihood that Scott gets gets his
00:58:49
money back?
00:58:50
>> I I think this is they're there. Look,
00:58:52
Tesla's missed a real opportunity here
00:58:54
again and again and again, but I don't
00:58:55
think he cares about the cars anymore,
00:58:56
does he? I mean, he he was introducing a
00:58:58
a cyber cab that doesn't exist and isn't
00:59:01
being used anywhere. I mean, think
00:59:03
between Whimo and Rivian, I think
00:59:04
they've sort of ran around.
00:59:05
>> But let me It's also very one,
00:59:09
>> they need more scale. So, this is a
00:59:11
great win for Rivian. to I think one of
00:59:14
the biggest brand enhancements is to be
00:59:16
known like there are few brands that
00:59:19
have fallen further faster in the last
00:59:20
20 years and made shittier cars than
00:59:22
Jaguar. This is one of the great the one
00:59:25
of the great British brands in history.
00:59:27
The design and the and the cars the last
00:59:30
20 years have just been remarkably
00:59:31
uninspiring.
00:59:33
Now the best brand move in my opinion of
00:59:35
Jaguar is they have been um the car of
00:59:38
choice that I've seen for
00:59:41
>> Whimos. Yes, they are.
00:59:42
>> So immediately it's like, "Oh, Jaguar is
00:59:45
the kind of the Pepsi generation new
00:59:48
cool car." I didn't even know what the I
00:59:50
I had to look. I I didn't even recognize
00:59:52
the car. That's a Jaguar.
00:59:54
>> So it's Brand enhancing for Rubian. It
00:59:56
gives them all sorts of scale.
00:59:58
>> And also what people have
01:00:01
underappreciated is that the biggest
01:00:03
winner, the obvious biggest winner in
01:00:06
autonomous, regardless of all the
01:00:08
press releases, people realize
01:00:10
it's not Tesla. It's likely Whimo. They
01:00:12
have the capital. They're miles ahead of
01:00:13
everyone. They have exponentially more
01:00:16
miles under their under their under
01:00:18
their belt in terms of testing this. But
01:00:20
there's an outside shot that the biggest
01:00:23
winner here
01:00:24
>> Mhm.
01:00:25
>> is going to be Uber
01:00:26
>> because when you control
01:00:28
>> sort of like the apple. See, they're
01:00:29
sort of like the apple.
01:00:31
>> I love we always used in consulting we
01:00:33
always used to the term use the term
01:00:35
custody of the consumer. My first client
01:00:38
was Levi Strauss company and they were
01:00:39
always complaining about J C Penney and
01:00:41
Sears. I'm like, "Yeah, but they have
01:00:42
custody of the consumer. You need to
01:00:43
open your own stores. You need to go
01:00:45
vertical to control the relationship
01:00:46
with the consumer."
01:00:48
>> In the US, Uber has 75% market share.
01:00:52
They're basically a monopoly.
01:00:54
>> Yeah. Der is a very effective.
01:00:56
>> And so what they can do is they can say
01:00:58
they can push up an icon saying, "Why do
01:01:00
you need to download the Whimo or the
01:01:02
Tesla app? Just click here for
01:01:04
driverless." Yeah, they could also do
01:01:06
deals with Whimo too by
01:01:08
>> and they can play them off against each
01:01:09
other. They can find the company that
01:01:11
wants to work with them the most and get
01:01:13
market share the same way Apple
01:01:15
>> You could also use Uber to summon Whimo
01:01:17
if you I mean think why not like why not
01:01:19
>> my point. Yeah. And then take a take a
01:01:22
large margin. So what did Apple do?
01:01:24
Because they controlled custody of the
01:01:26
billion wealthiest people in the world
01:01:28
through UI and people don't want to
01:01:29
learn a new app. They extract $20
01:01:32
billion a year from Alphabet to be to
01:01:34
make to make Google the default search
01:01:37
engine.
01:01:37
>> Uber's in a position to extract
01:01:39
extraordinary deals around autonomous
01:01:42
>> and make it and say to people, "Oh yeah,
01:01:44
you want autonomous? No problem. Here's
01:01:46
the Uber app
01:01:47
>> you love." And so I I look Whimo,
01:01:51
>> it's going to be interesting.
01:01:52
Autonomous. I think I think one of the
01:01:54
places that AI actually comes to
01:01:55
fruition and exceeds our expectations is
01:01:57
around autonomous.
01:01:58
>> I agree. The question is, what's
01:02:01
interesting is
01:02:02
>> two of the biggest winners hands down
01:02:04
>> are going to be Uber and Whimo. And I
01:02:07
wouldn't be surprised if Uber is in fact
01:02:09
the biggest winner because they have
01:02:11
custody of the consumer.
01:02:12
>> Yeah. Ultimately, I've been a big, as
01:02:14
you know, a big proponent of of
01:02:16
self-driving in a safe mode. I I will
01:02:18
tell you, I would never get in a Tesla
01:02:20
given I had a long talk with with R.J.
01:02:23
about, you know, I think he's he's more
01:02:25
on you don't need this many points of
01:02:27
safety, but he put them on there anyway,
01:02:29
right? And so compared to Elon who's
01:02:32
like, I just have one camera with the
01:02:33
guy in the back. Like I feel so unsafe
01:02:35
in Teslas in that regard. Um, and I
01:02:38
think the way Whimo's done it is
01:02:40
correct, but you're right. Uber's in in
01:02:41
a very they could have been it could
01:02:43
have been easily sidelined by all these
01:02:45
companies but they have they I always
01:02:47
used to say they have the reservation
01:02:48
system and that and you're right it's
01:02:51
the chain of custody and and you do
01:02:52
trust Uber what a brand I mean I know
01:02:55
Travis Kalan is trying to come back in
01:02:56
this sector but I got to say DAR took
01:02:59
that company and really made it into one
01:03:01
like you know you know what is
01:03:03
comparatively
01:03:03
>> really been eye opening for me and it
01:03:05
goes to something you said that's always
01:03:06
really resonated with me and that is
01:03:08
>> the thing about tech executives They're
01:03:10
traditionally white males who went to
01:03:12
elite schools, raised in wealthy
01:03:14
families. And when you never been a
01:03:16
victim, it's difficult to understand
01:03:19
victimization. That's always struck me
01:03:20
that like until I walk in those shoes,
01:03:23
you don't. And you know what women say
01:03:25
to me that I it makes so much sense. I
01:03:27
just never realized it. I get into an
01:03:30
Uber, the driver doesn't usually doesn't
01:03:32
talk to me. I don't want to talk to him.
01:03:34
And I know that sounds terrible. I just
01:03:35
don't I don't want to talk. I want to be
01:03:36
on my phone. Every woman I've talked to
01:03:39
says when they get in an Uber, the Uber
01:03:41
driver tries to chat her up.
01:03:44
>> And it's not me, but Yes. Yes.
01:03:46
>> Well, it's uncomfortable, especially if
01:03:49
you talk to young women.
01:03:51
>> Mhm.
01:03:51
>> And they don't. And you know who's
01:03:53
really used loves Whimo is women.
01:03:56
>> Women. They do. Or else you can also now
01:03:57
on Uber, by the way, uh request a woman.
01:04:01
>> Um there's a they they've done a great
01:04:03
job. Let me tell you, Dar goes for I
01:04:05
don't agree with on everything. I think
01:04:06
sometimes he can be a little too
01:04:07
compromisy with terrible people. I think
01:04:09
he knows it. He's a great He's a great
01:04:12
CEO. He's done a great job here.
01:04:14
>> All right. Uh, one more quick break.
01:04:16
We'll be back for predictions.
01:04:19
>> Support for the show comes from Back
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01:05:31
Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.
01:05:32
Can I just start very quickly? Of
01:05:34
course. I predict this mega micro penis
01:05:37
war is going to get worse. And I am here
01:05:39
for it. Do you know about this? Right.
01:05:42
Megan Kelly said Mark Levin had a microp
01:05:44
penis and then President Trump defended
01:05:47
his micropenis and then Marjorie Taylor
01:05:49
Green came in with a micropenis and
01:05:52
Megan Kelly's doubling down on it. It's
01:05:54
completely crude and awful and repulsive
01:05:56
and I think it's going to get a lot
01:05:58
worse and I'm very pleased. Thank you.
01:06:02
>> Yeah, that's my prediction.
01:06:02
>> No, I I I don't I don't I think it's
01:06:04
inappropriate to talk about man's
01:06:06
genitalia. Um, by the way, I was at a
01:06:09
stall last night and a guy looked over
01:06:11
and he said, "Circumcised?" And I said,
01:06:13
"Nope, that's just the wear and tear."
01:06:16
>> Oh my god, you've told that joke before.
01:06:19
I'm going to start clocking your penis.
01:06:21
By the way,
01:06:22
>> I'm not going to say Adam Grant, but
01:06:23
Adam Grant said, "You got to cut back on
01:06:25
the penis strokes, the party you missed,
01:06:26
cuz you wrote the
01:06:27
>> Oh, my nemesis."
01:06:28
>> Yes. Your nemesis was like
01:06:30
>> the more successful version of Scott
01:06:31
Galloway.
01:06:32
>> He's doing a podcast on the Vox Media
01:06:34
Podcast Network with uh with Bnee Brown,
01:06:36
the two of them. They're trying to be
01:06:37
the nice version of Scott and Cara, I
01:06:39
think. Um and he was he commented on
01:06:42
your penis drugs and I said and I
01:06:43
literally Scott I I said I love them. I
01:06:47
defended you so hard.
01:06:48
>> I appreciate that. And I was like,
01:06:50
"People love them." And he's like,
01:06:51
"Yeah, but do you think it's the right
01:06:52
thing?" I go, "It's the right thing. I'm
01:06:55
no matter how much my brain
01:06:56
>> That's right. I don't want to be wrong."
01:06:57
And then also also I want to be a little
01:07:00
bent to the left. Um
01:07:02
>> anyway, just congratulations
01:07:04
and Adam on
01:07:05
>> It's a condition. I'm a special needs
01:07:08
person.
01:07:09
>> Anyway,
01:07:09
>> it's a condition. Don't penis. I'm here
01:07:11
for now. talking about mic. Sorry, Adam,
01:07:14
but micro penis work cracks me the
01:07:16
up and I'm I'm here for it and I hope
01:07:18
more to come and I think I think we're
01:07:20
not done with the micro penis.
01:07:22
>> I got to be I love it when they were
01:07:23
with each other because one of the
01:07:24
things I don't like about the Democratic
01:07:26
party
01:07:27
>> is that I find for the most part when I
01:07:30
just went on this great podcast PBR PB
01:07:34
this really lovely guy. He's a
01:07:35
conservative out of Fort Lauderdale.
01:07:37
>> Oh, you want the guy that guy? Mhm.
01:07:39
>> Oh, I like him. I thought he was nice.
01:07:40
Um anyways, um
01:07:44
the thing I find generally speaking
01:07:45
about Republicans is they're like, "Oh,
01:07:47
you want to be a Republican? Come on
01:07:48
in."
01:07:49
>> Uh and when you say, "Oh, I want to be a
01:07:51
pro progressive." It's like, "We'll
01:07:53
see."
01:07:55
>> I feel like we apply way more Sarah.
01:07:58
There's a new Democrat in town. But go
01:08:00
ahead.
01:08:01
>> If you don't choose the right words, if
01:08:02
you don't hold the gun correctly, let's
01:08:04
court marshall you and hang you.
01:08:06
>> It's the right that's doing it now. But
01:08:08
go ahead. No, they're you know what this
01:08:09
is? This is a bunch of podcasters who
01:08:13
know the algorithm, the more fights they
01:08:15
get into and the more incendiary they
01:08:16
are.
01:08:16
>> I suppose you're right.
01:08:17
>> You know, Candace Owens makes a living
01:08:19
off of saying really vile things because
01:08:22
the algorithms and the reason our nation
01:08:24
is being torn apart at the seams is
01:08:26
there's now a financial incentive in
01:08:28
being vile and incendiary. The
01:08:30
algorithms love it. In a world where
01:08:32
there were editors and fact checkers and
01:08:34
more reasonable people saying is that a
01:08:37
reasonable thing we want to print? She
01:08:39
would be nowhere or anyway. So I
01:08:43
I don't I love it when these guys fight
01:08:46
but at the end of the day it's it's it's
01:08:48
indicative of a bigger problem and that
01:08:51
is our media our overlords
01:08:54
are algorithms deciding that this is
01:08:57
news.
01:08:57
>> Oh, you're so good. I don't care. I like
01:08:59
the micro penis. Anyway, I defended you
01:09:01
to Adam Grant on the page. I appreciate
01:09:03
that. All right.
01:09:04
>> I tell you, other than academic
01:09:05
credibility and talent and higher IQ,
01:09:08
that that dude has nothing on me.
01:09:09
>> That dude has nothing on. Do you know he
01:09:11
was a diver in college?
01:09:13
>> Even better.
01:09:13
>> He was a diver.
01:09:14
>> Yeah.
01:09:15
>> All his sort of like, you know, his
01:09:18
tweets about, you know, characters doing
01:09:21
the right thing when no one's looking.
01:09:22
Oh, you.
01:09:23
>> All right, move along.
01:09:25
>> Adam Grant, you and Bnee Brown.
01:09:28
thoughtfulness and deep
01:09:29
>> interest. Poundforound, they're better
01:09:31
people than us, but that's okay.
01:09:32
>> Well, that's that's Bern's obvious.
01:09:35
>> I love that, Bnee. Anyway,
01:09:37
>> I want to be I like them both and Adam
01:09:39
is a friend, so I I trust he's taking us
01:09:41
all in just
01:09:42
>> I hope so. One would assume. Maybe
01:09:44
they'll discuss it on their new show.
01:09:46
Maybe we should have a Rumble with them.
01:09:47
>> I think we could be evil twins. I think
01:09:49
with his intellect and my I don't know,
01:09:52
my something, we could take over
01:09:53
Australia and Bnee would be queen of
01:09:55
>> a crossover show. We're gonna I'm gonna
01:09:56
invite them on a crossover show. All
01:09:57
right. We could switch partners. You
01:09:59
know when they switch the husband and
01:10:00
wives?
01:10:01
>> I you know I' I've I've tried it but I'm
01:10:03
the one that ends up alone and no one's
01:10:05
up for it.
01:10:06
>> You know it's called show. You could
01:10:08
have Bernay and Well, you've been on
01:10:09
Bernation anyway. Finish. Do your do
01:10:11
your prediction. Prediction.
01:10:12
>> Oh, I'm sorry.
01:10:14
>> Uh my prediction is OpenAI Sora social
01:10:17
media app will be shut down soon.
01:10:19
>> Oh,
01:10:20
>> Sora. Really? What do you know? You know
01:10:22
something?
01:10:23
>> No, I don't. I I've done no original
01:10:25
reporting.
01:10:26
Okay. All right.
01:10:26
>> Um, but they're focusing, which is the
01:10:29
right thing to do. SOAR is essentially
01:10:31
OpenAI's uh, it's sort of a tick-like
01:10:34
social media platform and for AI
01:10:36
generated content.
01:10:37
>> Yeah, it's pointless.
01:10:38
>> And users use their video model to
01:10:41
generate short form content and they can
01:10:44
upload it and share and share it, right?
01:10:47
And upon its release, Sora came out at
01:10:50
number one in the app store. Um, and
01:10:54
actually got more downloads out of the
01:10:56
gates than Chat GPT did. However, like
01:10:59
the parties ended. Downloads fell 32%
01:11:02
month over month in December and another
01:11:04
45% in January. And some Sora is the
01:11:06
little engine that didn't. And also
01:11:10
users continue to drop like flies. Um,
01:11:13
and but at the same time, Open I open AI
01:11:15
has to spend a ton of money to keep the
01:11:17
lights on there. And some estimates are
01:11:20
that
01:11:20
>> also brings a lot of legal challenges.
01:11:22
But
01:11:23
>> well, it's costing them 15 million bucks
01:11:25
a day or 5 billion a year.
01:11:27
>> And despite that, the app is bringing in
01:11:30
less than half a million dollars per
01:11:31
month. And given their new focus, which
01:11:33
is the right one,
01:11:35
>> uh, on focus,
01:11:37
>> it's not central to OpenAI's, uh, core
01:11:40
competences. They're an AI company, not
01:11:42
a social media company.
01:11:43
>> It's not creating revenue.
01:11:45
>> Yep.
01:11:46
>> Big losses. And also, it's really
01:11:48
unpopular. 62% of Americans disapprove
01:11:51
of online videos created with AI.
01:11:53
>> A lot more trouble than it's worth.
01:11:54
>> It feels dystopian. 70% of people
01:11:56
globally would be uncomfortable
01:11:57
consuming fully AI generated creative
01:11:59
content. So
01:12:01
>> this new focus, this new adult in the
01:12:03
room saying we need to focus on the
01:12:05
enterprise market is now quite frankly
01:12:07
we have seated so much share and value
01:12:09
to anthropic. The first
01:12:11
>> Yeah. It's stupid. It's stupid.
01:12:13
>> Anyways, the first example I like of
01:12:15
this focus is that open AI Sora uh rest
01:12:19
in peace. It's going to be shut down.
01:12:21
>> All right. Okay. Oh, I like that. That's
01:12:22
a big that's a big call. I think that's
01:12:24
a good one. Um I just want to make one
01:12:26
other note before we go. Um, President
01:12:29
Trump's comments about dyslexia. Um, I
01:12:31
have a lot of friends who have dyslexia,
01:12:33
by the way. He said Governor Newsome
01:12:34
should not be president because he had
01:12:36
dyslexia or has, but uh, gross. What a
01:12:39
gross thing to say. I just was I'm just
01:12:41
like, stop it. Like, stop like make
01:12:44
demonizing things that are learning
01:12:46
disabilities. It's gross. He's does it
01:12:47
all the time, but it's a continual thing
01:12:49
and everyone just lets him go. But
01:12:51
honestly, what it just And I predict it
01:12:54
will have bad effects. Anyway,
01:12:56
>> are you really are you really surprised
01:12:59
though?
01:12:59
>> No, but I just don't I'm like no. Like
01:13:01
we I I I think we should keep saying no
01:13:03
to this Gh. It was just gross. I
01:13:05
have a lot of friends.
01:13:06
>> I don't know. I I put the I put the sex
01:13:08
in dyslexia. Wait. Sexy dyslexia. Sexy
01:13:12
>> Anyway. Anyway,
01:13:15
that's good. Got it. I got it. Anyway,
01:13:16
you're grotesque. I I'm sorry. I think
01:13:18
we have to call these out all the time.
01:13:20
Anyway, we want to I'm not angry about
01:13:21
it. It's just
01:13:23
um we want to hear from you. My favorite
01:13:25
stripper has uh has dyslexia. Her name
01:13:28
was density.
01:13:32
>> Adam Grant, take that. Talk about
01:13:35
character and being a good manager. Try
01:13:37
to compete with my my stripper density.
01:13:40
My dyslexic stripper density.
01:13:43
>> Yeah, right.
01:13:44
>> Okay. Let's see who wins the iHeart
01:13:47
podcast of the year award.
01:13:48
>> Density should be president. Anyway, we
01:13:50
want to hear from you. to send us your
01:13:52
questions about business, tech, or
01:13:53
whatever's on your mind. Go to
01:13:54
nymag.com/pivot
01:13:56
to submit a question for the show or
01:13:57
call 85551 pivot. Okay, that's the show.
01:14:00
Thanks for listening to Pivot and be
01:14:01
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01:14:03
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01:14:06
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