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One of the things that's really interesting about the Trump era is we all move on. Every week is something unprecedented and then it's precedented.
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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser and I am at HQ
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Vox and I'm Scott Galloway and this episode is sponsored by IBM. Thank you IBM. I'm jealous that I'm not going to
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Bezos wedding this weekend. I had lunch with three guys who shall go nameless who seem like really fun, cool guys. And
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they're all going. They're all going. We're not going. You're still not invited. Yeah. Did you see they had a foam party? It was so You, Scott, they
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had a phone party on the yacht on the Kuru or whatever the hell they call it. I didn't see the phone party. Lauren and
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Jeff were in a phone party, which I have not. It was someone commented to me they hadn't done since they were 25 years
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old, but apparently it was for her son who was turning 19. Um, but they had a phone party on the on the deck of the
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yacht. Mhm. Good for them. Yeah. The rumor is Lauren has been calling people and saying, "I need I need more single
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men." Oh. Um I just I just think it's I think it'd be a really good time. Oh,
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yeah. Well, we weren't invited, Scott. You had a outside chance possibly of being invited. Yeah. I think you brought
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me down. I think I would have been invited had it not been for my affiliation with you. I know. I feel that that's the case. I feel like you
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could have been you cuz you're kind of an interesting man. You're attractive enough for them. You have to be attractive. You're fit. You would have
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fit the bill. You drink. You're down for it. You're DTF, as I like to say. Ever
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since the scrotum lift, it's all coming together. Yeah. Yeah. I'm also on testosterone. I'm on the NAD. Yeah. NAD.
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You're just like like them. I don't know why you're not friends with them. I don't know why the Kardashians have moved their way in and you haven't. I
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just don't. There's something wrong. I agree with you. We We can fix it. I actually would have rather Well, no. I
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think I'd rather go to the bach party. I think I'd rather go to the wedding. Supposedly the wedding vows include a commitment to provide emotional support
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within 48 hours. And uh also it's uh every every uh
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wedding plate has a list of items. It says if you chose this wedding, you might also like Oh, okay. Okay. Little
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Amazon humor. Anyway, congratulations, Bezos as um anyway, we got a lot to get to today, so let's dig right in.
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Obviously the big story. The Pentagon says three of Iran's nuclear sites sustained extremely severe damage
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following the US strikes over the weekend, but it's too soon to know whether Iran still has nuclear capabilities. And the administration is
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saying different things, including JD Vance versus the president, etc. President Trump declared the mission is spectacular military success on
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Saturday, and he claimed the nuclear sites were completely and totally obliterated. Trump also said the strikes
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should force Iran to make peace and threaten future attacks if it doesn't happen. Iran's foreign minister is calling the attacks outrageous and
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warning of everlasting consequences. That's an interesting word, everlasting. Um Trump is also now floating the idea
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of regime regime change in Iran, posting on true social, make Iran great again or
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MIGA. And in fact, as we record this, Iran has launched an attack on a US base
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in Qatar, which is home to about 10,000 US troops. Qatar closed its airspace and
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suspended flights as a precautionary measure. A Qatari spokesman says the missiles were intercepted and so far no
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injuries have been reported. I would expect more attacks in the region. Yeah,
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looks it looks as if they also attacked in Iraq and you never know, but so far this looks like what I'll call a saving
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face attack. It doesn't look like it's it looks like they needed to do something. Let's hope this is let's hope
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this is all they do. Yeah. And in fact, Israel is continuing bombarding Iran itself at the same time. Though the vice
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president JD Vance said on Meet the Press, "The US is not at war with Iran. We're war with Iran's nuclear program."
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Vance also attempted to explain why this attack won't lead to a broader US involvement in the Middle East. He is he
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is much more on the non-involvement wing just for even though he's doing this for the president. Let's listen. I certainly
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empathize with Americans who are exhausted after 25 years of foreign entanglements in the Middle East. I
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understand the concern. But the difference is that back then we had dumb presidents and now we have a president
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who actually knows how to accomplish America's national security objectives. So this is not going to be some long
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drawn out thing. We've got in we've done the job of setting their nuclear program back. We're going to now work to
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permanently dismantle that nuclear program over the coming years. And that is what the president has set out to do.
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Yeah, it sounds like a long war. Essentially calling ex-presidents dumb is just so ridiculous. What an idiot.
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What an idiot. He also a lot of the other people in the administration are countering what Trump is saying. They don't know how much damage is done. Uh
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General Kaine particular was like we we don't know because he's an adult and he can say they don't know. Um obviously
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they made an effort to do so. Um a lot of people think it's a bold move. Other people think uh it's going to be part of
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a long drawn out war. Uh we'll get to the Trump of it all in a second, but overall thoughts, my favorite thing is
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the name of it. Midnight Operation Hammer. Operation Midnight Hammer. Operation Midnight Hammer. I think that was the WhatsApp group planning Heg
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Seth's bachelor party where he got his first DUI or it's I'm going to be he got
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hammered too from what I see. It's the stage name of a porn star who's addicted to Red Bull. Midnight Hammer. Oh yeah.
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Midnight Hammer. Yeah. Look. So I've been thinking about you know you'll be you're proud you'd be proud of me. I've
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been called by two big fairly big networks and asked to come on and talk about it and I'm like okay uh I'm willing to talk about a lot of things I
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don't have expertise in. This is not one of them. Um I I see geopolitical
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strength as having three legs of the stool. The first is kinetic power. Uh
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the second is alliances and the third is competence. Um so just in reverse order, Israel has demonstrated more competence
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than any the IDF just knows how to do more with less than any organization in the world right now militarily. They
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are, you know, they have executed perfectly across some incredible operations, including taking out the air defenses of Iran. And going back to
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kinetic power, we have the most kinetic power in the world. And I do believe that if you're going to spend $800 billion on your military, that you want
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to go uh off your heels and onto your toes and and exert and proactively
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um display power and and offensively
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protect your national interest. So, I think there's a really good argument that we shouldn't be in forever wars. We none of our business, then fine. Take
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military spending down to 200 billion and spend it somewhere else. But Canada's not invading Buffalo. So,
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unless we're going to do things like this that project our power, uh, I don't I don't see why it'd spend so much
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money. And flying B2 bombers that deliver bunker busters, both of which are armaments and ordinances that nobody
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else has in the world. I do think it's impressive and sends a strong signal to our adversaries and our allies. It
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sounds to me like the operation was executed really well. I do think this was a moment in time to go on the
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offense trying to put aside my disdain for the administration. So kinetic power that box is checked. The second is
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alliances and this is really where we start to fall down and that is despite having you know we have 5% of the
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world's population 25% of the world's GDP the the only successful really successful military operations are
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basically a gauge for them is how much support you have from other democracies and in every other military operation like this immediately other western
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nations weigh in and offer support and there's coordinated kind of nonverbal
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support from unexpected uh unexpected countries including the
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kingdom or Jordan and if you'll notice the only countries that are putting out
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press releases are Russia claiming that they we have exaggerated the damage done in China saying that here they go again
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making the world more uncertain and so going about this is in my opinion the first real example of the fact that our
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alliances have somewhat been sequestered to an alliance where it puts us hip-to-hip with Israel which I like cuz
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I'm very pro Israel but the reality is the Israeli brand globally is not very strong right now. I I think that not
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going into this war unilaterally, strength and greatness are in the agency of others. And it struck me just how few
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alliances we have of people willing to Yeah. will people willing the next day to say we of course used they let they
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could use our our airspace and we and MI6 provided intelligence. Typically when any responsible president of which
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JD Vance thinks are stupid and whereas he's a genius, they coordinate like crazy with their allies to say we would
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really appreciate you coming out the next day in support of this and it creates it creates greater I think
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emphasis and strength and a unified front. And then the third thing is competence. And this is really where we
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fall down in my view because something that Americans I don't think focus on nearly enough is that when you have our
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National Guard and our military and agents of the government focused on raiding a Home Depot in Westlake,
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California, it it detracts from the focus we should have our military on operations such as this. When you decide
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to declare economic warfare on everyone with tariffs that were derived from bad prompts to chat GPT, it shows that
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you're incompetent. And then this on this specific operation, Secretary Gabbard comes out and says
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there's no evidence they're moving towards a nuclear bomb. He says, "My intelligence community is wrong."
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Secretaries Hagath and Rubio state we don't want regime change. Hours later, he says, "I'm in favor of regime
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change." These guys just look like they just look incompetent in terms of their messaging, right? Or or he they don't
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have control over him. That's really it. He doesn't he doesn't care what any of them say. And they've been trying to
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message it. That's for sure. And one of the things that they tried to do is act like this was all part of a chess game
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when, as we always notice, he's not playing chess. He's throwing the checkers everywhere and eating them essentially. But um you know, he said he
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was waiting up to two weeks to decide on an attack plan. Appeared to be a decoy move or maybe not. Who knows? Which was
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effective to call balls and strikes. It if that was what he was doing. If that was what he was doing. um reportedly he
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made the decision to bomb Iran earlier in the week according to the Atlantic. Now he also um had a lunch with Bannon
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which would show that he was maybe not going to do anything because Bannon's sort of anti- any of this. Um
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it's probably a head fake move but maybe it's not. Now Republicans are rallying behind Trump but uh Democrats and a few
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Republicans are calling the attack unconstitutional since Trump did not have congressional approval. to be fair
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again, balls and strikes, other presidents have done this, have done attacks. Um it's just that he's he's so
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violative of most laws that he's done it just seems even worse when he does it.
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Um but other presidents to be fair have done this. Um and I think the braggadocio about whether we're
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successful. I think probably you say very little. Um uh one of the things that's interesting is that whether it
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creates a fracture in the MAGA coalition. Mag is pretending it's not, but there's clearly they're trying to
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signal as best they can. They don't like this. Uh even in the soft language they're using, never using his name. Um
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but there there's got to be a real problem here because once you get involved in this stuff, you don't get uninvolved. It's very hard to get it's
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very easy to get into war, very hard to get out. Um the markets have had a muted response, which is interesting, and
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that's what I really think we should focus on because we actually do know something about that. The US markets are up as of this recording. Oil prices
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jumped after the strikes this weekend but are falling now. Trump is watching those oil prices. He posted on Truth
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Social on Monday morning. Everyone keep oil prices down. You're playing right into the hands of the enemy. So talk a
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little bit about that cuz nobody knows what to make of it. They I it must mean that they don't think he's going to
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escalate. That would be one thing. That said, if Iran closes the straight of Hormuz as they've threatened to do, uh
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those oil prices could spike. It doesn't it's not clear whether they can actually close it or we can open it right back up. Um but nonetheless there's
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uncertainty but the the response has been muted. How do you why why do you think that's the case? I I generally
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believe Trump is looking to bask in some macho light. This was I do think this
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was a well executed military operation. We won't know the extent of the damage and unfortunately because we can't trust
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our intelligence services anymore. It's hard to get accurate information and I'm not sure that we can count on Trump. I
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don't think Trump did this as an act of support of Israel. I did I think he did it as an act of trying to he got jealous
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of this this dick measuring contest where Netanyahu looked like have the bigger package and so he showed up and
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he wanted some of it. But I think he's looking to get the hell out of dodge and not and not be drawn into a larger
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conflict. And unfortunately, similar to our elected public, the IRGC is run by
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the, you know, the Kmeni, who is an 86-year-old theocrat. And who knows what
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this guy what's running what's running through this guy's head. No, he has to choose. He has to make a bad choice
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between bad choices. But the straight of Hormuz, which everyone is worried about them seizing it up, the reality, Cara,
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is that if the straight of Hormuz gets blocked, it hurts China a lot more than it hurts us. You know, China gets 5.4 4
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million barrels a day through the straight. India gets 2 million, South Korea 1.7. People just don't realize how
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incredibly blessed we are and how productive our economy is. We're actually a pretty much a self-sustaining nation. So if the straight of Hormuz
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gets blocked, China gets very upset and pissed off. Now the way it hurts us is
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that you could see a spike in oil prices, which would hurt us. And you know, for every for every for every 10
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bucks I think a barrel goes up, it it translates to 25 cents in gas here. But the reality is the straight of hormuz
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coming under um uh blockage or descent or tumult or chaos hurts Asia a lot more
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than it hurts the United States. But still is it's an indicator. I think they won't be able to do that either whether they'll be able to the oil markets are
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saying they're not worried. The oil markets if you hadn't known this had happened and you were looking at the markets, you wouldn't know this had
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happened. It doesn't look as if the markets are yawning right now. that the markets are saying, and who knows, they
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can be wrong, that this will be that Iran will have some sort of symbolic gesture similar to what they did with
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Israel, sending over all those ballistics, the majority of which didn't impact them, and that this will quote
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unquote deescalate and that and that um Trump gets his macho participation
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trophy and we all move on. Yeah. One of the things that's really interesting about the Trump era is we all move on. like it's something that happened like
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what was a couple weeks ago something every every week is something unprecedented and then it's precedented
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essentially and what's interesting about it is if he look no other president has
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tried this and I agree with you I think sometimes you do the big move the big grand gesture and then move out now one
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thing that was striking to me was the polling on this thing most Americans don't want anything to do with it even
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an attack it's fascinating like that he just did it without allied support,
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without polling support, without anything. That is one reason I'm like
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this guy, you know, this [ __ ] guy, he's just doing it cuz he wants to he doesn't seem to care about polls. He
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doesn't see well, why would he in his, you know, he doesn't have to have to run again really. They had they got it. They
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were perfect for a moment or they had the perfect statement. This was this is not a war or an attack on the Iranian people. This was an attack on
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facilities. That was that was exactly right. But then they can't help themselves. Well, he can't. He can't.
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And he starts talking about regime change. And here's the thing about regime change. It's an oxymoron. When
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regime change is forced externally, it doesn't work. It's not truly regime change. So, we tried that once in Iran.
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We had there was a democratically elected uh president of Iran. He was overthrown by the CIA and MI6 because he
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had this crazy notion that Iranian oil belonged to Iranians. So we we got him
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thrown out and we put in the sha of Iran who was an autocrat and ultimately he
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was thrown out and then the Islamic Republic came in. 50% of the time where you think you have a democratic regime
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change it ends up going back to something else. You can't we should just never be in the regime change business.
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It doesn't work. The people have to decide. But at the same time, I'm sort
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of I mean, the IDF has done an amazing job taking down their um their uh
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defense infrastructure, their aerial defense infrastructure, people. They've killed a lot of like Well, it depends
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how you define it. They they've killed a lot of senior level military officers, but there's actually been very little death here, right? I mean, granted, they
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keep taking out leadership is what they keep Yeah. And they've sent a very a very strong signal. we've punched. The
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biggest mistake you make in strategy is you think you're punching a speed bag. And there's always a lot of unintended
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consequences, not only in war, but Jesus Christ, in the Middle East, no one can predict. I mean, it is it is so difficult to predict. There are so many
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X factors flying around anything involving the Middle East. And to think that they might not respond, I don't
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know. We we can all guess, but at this point, anybody who who lays out what they know is going to happen doesn't
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know what they're talking about. You're 100% right. I think the issues this has been good for for Israel. That's what
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it's been good for. It's been less good for us. Um but we'll see. We'll see if
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if Trump keeps his mouth shut. Like I I do think Vance and the others and Kaine are signaling the we don't know how much
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we've hit. This is only to stop the nuclear if they stick to the nuclear program. Iran should never have a
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nuclear device period. And that's in our interests. That's that that should be that and they that the question is can
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it be that and that unfortunately many other people have been dragged in here many other presidents but by the way J
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is calling presidents dumb just you're dumb you're dumb why why are you why
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that line you're like it was a good line and then you add why are you destroying alliances with former Republicans and
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also Americans in our kind of our tendency and our fascination with self-hate we are willing to take a
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victory lap in the sense that if you think of us as having four enemies China, North Korea, Russia, and Iran.
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The Ukrainian army has beaten the [ __ ] out of Russia and through and through support of from Western Europe and the
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US has basically defanged Russia. And quite frankly, if Russia had not gone into Ukraine or if in fact they'd ended
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up in Kee within 7 days, I'm not and Russia was still the scary military
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power we all thought it was. I'm not sure we would have done this because if Russia had still had its proxies in Syria and could be more supportive of
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Iran directly with technology, I think we we would have been less bold around
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Iran. So, the West right now when it comes to two of our enemies, Iran and
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Russia, we are kicking the [ __ ] out of them and we should we should celebrate that that the that that the West is
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winning. The question is, and these guys never asked, I don't think this question is what now? And what bothers me is that
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we don't have a unified front with all of our Western allies around what is next within the Trump administration.
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That's clear. They can't get their own messaging straight. I was sort of like, what? Huh? Like they keep saying anyway,
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it's cuz Trump, you never know what he's going to say at any given minute. Anyway, uh we'll see what happens. We're not experts here, but it certainly seems
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the market's going oh well. Okay. Like another thing, what's he going to do next week? Let's hope very little
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happens actually. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Elon's robo taxis hit the road. Emphasis
00:19:35
on hit. Support for Pivot comes from IBM. Bigger isn't always better, especially with AI.
00:19:42
Superersized models can drain your budget fast. Smaller ones are smart and can help cut AI cost up to 90%.
00:19:49
Rightsize your models at ibm.com. The AI built for business. IBM
00:19:58
Scott, we're back. Uh Tesla's long-awaited robo taxi service is now on the streets of Austin with a few
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caveats. This initial rollout has Tesla employees riding in the front passenger seat to ensure safety. The service is
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also currently invite only uh to fans with a geo fenced area of Austin, a small area. Riders are paying a flat fee
00:20:16
of 420. Haha. Uh the launch comes just days after Texas Governor Greg Abbott
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signed new law regulating self-driving cars. The legislation takes effect in September and requires companies to get
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permit to operate self-driving vehicles. The state can revoke those permits if safety becomes a concern. Uh, you know,
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this is just shares are up 10%. I can't believe this because there it's like the smallest
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little service going. Um, it's not going to create the billions and bill tens of billions or trillions that Elon has
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promised. There are very many competitors. And by the way, VW is getting into the game. The company just unveiled a robo taxi that will be used
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by Uber's fleet uh next year. Um this ID they make is be I'd love to have an ID
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Volkswagen ID actually. Um great great looking cars, great electric looking
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electric cars look fun and interesting to drive. So um who knows what's going to happen here. He's also facing other
00:21:08
challenges. His startup XAI is reportedly burning a billion dollars a month while generating just $500 million
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in revenue this year. According to Bloomberg, the company is now seeking $9.3 billion in debt in equity to close
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the gap and what SpaceX is calling a major anomaly. Starship rocket exploded during routine testing for the launch
00:21:27
last week. Important law. It was an important test actually. Um I have been saying this over and again his leverage
00:21:33
is very uh tight. He's got a lot of tight. Everything is depending on it's like a jen. It feels very Jengaike
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what's happening here. um he often does pull a rabbit out of the hat, but it seems like given the competitors in the
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in the both the robo taxi and the car space, the competitors in the in the AI
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space and SpaceX seems to be struggling a little bit and and still hasn't gone
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public and hasn't provided him the funding he needs. Um what do you think is going on here? It seems a little
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precarious for Elon Musk. Yeah, I I think some of your bias is coming out.
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He Like it the reason he's the wealthiest man in the world is he's incredibly risk aggressive. That's what
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I Yes, he is. And he makes these just dramatic huge bets. The difference now versus making the huge bets he made on
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Tesla when he legitimately could have gone bankrupt if didn't get a $50 million loan is that he now has
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businesses in space, EVs, AI, marine implants, and any one of those if they
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hit to the same extent that Tesla hit for a while. SpaceX is still a remarkable company. the anomaly or the
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explosion to a certain to a certain extent that's what makes SpaceX what SpaceX is and that is NASA can't blow up
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I've said that you know I've said that you said that absolutely many times so and it it is Starlink is still a
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superior service the robo taxi thing I mean it all comes down to this he uses
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technology Whimo uses liar which is strikes me as better technology safer
00:23:05
technology and much more expensive cost about a quart of a million dollars to put a lidar enabled autonomous car on
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the road. Whereas Tesla's saying if this works, we can produce these things for $36,000.
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Now, if they're able to show that they can deploy these things safely, which of which you pointed out, and it's true,
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there's some concern, they're going to have a real cost advantage. And they also have a lot of data from the Teslas
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already on the street. I think consumers win here. I think I think Whimo is way ahead. Um, but,
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you know, we'll see. There's also Zuks from Amazon. There's also the Zuks car which has been testing for a long I've
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been in zukses for years. I think the issue is he's he's been slow. It doesn't mean that he can't catch up. You're 100%
00:23:48
right. Like I agree with you. I just think that he's acting like he's the king of this area where he is not the
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king. He's the he's he's the come Johnny come lately in this area and shouldn't have been. He should have been far ahead
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in robo taxis and sort of the the pace setter. And the same thing with AI. he
00:24:04
should have been the pace setter in AI and one of someone in well all this stuff is going on in AI and obviously
00:24:10
it's still unsettled with various investments there's rumors that perplexity is going to get bought by Apple there's rumors you know there's
00:24:17
all kinds of like who's going to get bought who's going to get sold etc etc but he should have been out front here
00:24:23
and he's not out front what he's succeeded in is areas nobody else will enter because he's so risk uh aggressive
00:24:29
which is great which is a really great quality that he's had he was in areas nobody was in right now he's competing
00:24:35
in areas other people are doing rather well in and that's where I find the
00:24:40
problems for him the only one that is not the case which is in Starlink but the Chinese are coming in the Europeans
00:24:46
are coming in Jeff Bezos is coming in he's in competitive areas and he does it just simply doesn't his his boldness
00:24:54
doesn't work here it's it's a it's a it's a level of quality of service that you provide with these robo taxis that
00:25:01
requires um a little more discipline than just oh well we crashed a couple of
00:25:07
cars. You can't do it anymore because the others aren't crashing. GM was thrown out for crashing. So I feel like
00:25:13
it's not a bias. It's like he doesn't have an adv the the aggression is not an advantage in most of these businesses
00:25:20
necessarily. Cost might be as you pointed out that might be the case but I
00:25:26
think those other companies will figure out a way to bring down cost too. like I don't think he has a a definite
00:25:32
advantage in any of these areas including Starlink at this point. I think eventually they will catch up with
00:25:38
him and sooner than later. See, I see it as if you're going to bifurcate his winners and losers in terms of his
00:25:44
portfolio. My sense of him is he's able to create such a vision and create so
00:25:49
much awareness around the vision that he's able to pull cheap capital forward and run away from everyone else. I think
00:25:55
he's the ultimate case study on first mover advantage and his first mover advantage is apparent at Tesla with EVs
00:26:02
and SpaceX with space launch cargo cargo launch capability. I think both of those
00:26:07
companies Tesla has already provided him made him the wealthiest man in the world. I think SpaceX is going to be a
00:26:12
monster probably the biggest IPO at 26. the other areas where he's a trying to be a fast follower, whether it's AI or
00:26:19
autonomous driving, I don't think he's as good at because there's other people who are already able to sort of, you
00:26:26
know, they have the advantage. The market is already maturing. He's he's better as a quote unquote first mover
00:26:32
than a fast follower. And that's how he would quote unquote bifurcate his portfolio in terms of winners and
00:26:37
losers. I do think Starink though has is going to have challenges now. just that we have no one thought anyone would
00:26:42
catch up to Tesla and I think companies are catching up to Tesla very clearly catching up to whether it's BYD same
00:26:49
thing in Starlink this he is let me pay him a compliment he's always out front on lots of stuff but he's furthered away
00:26:56
his advantage in most of these areas he should have had he bragged about that [ __ ] robo taxi a decade ago to me why
00:27:04
didn't he have it cuz he's undisiplined cuz he can't like it that doing a robo
00:27:09
taxi takes a lot of hard detailed work of which he loves a splash, right? And I
00:27:15
agree, he should have gone into e what what what did he sit around waiting to do XAI for for a decade like he was he
00:27:22
was the first person who ever told me about these businesses and yet he's he's an also ran in the in in that space. So
00:27:30
why like I'm I'm saying it's okay to be a pioneer, but the planes are covered with the bodies of pioneers as far as I
00:27:35
can tell. And I think I wish he would just discipline himself and we'll see what happens with the SpaceX thing, but
00:27:42
blowing these things. I get that I always say, well, he can blow things up. There's a point where he can't blow any more things up, right? There is this is
00:27:49
the fourth in a row, I think, of a blow up of these things. Um, he's got to get it right and and make it efficient. Um,
00:27:56
and I don't think they expected this particular thing to blow up and it's costly and delaying and etc, etc. Well,
00:28:03
Star I I still think Starlink I think Starlink's an incredible product and arguably has the most differentiated
00:28:09
product lead of any product that that is that important to people. It's like water for wealthy people is broadband.
00:28:15
It's just and and there's just no comparison especially if you're on a plane and they have Starlink. You
00:28:21
literally you start salivating like oh this is I'm going to be so much more productive on this flight. The extent to
00:28:26
which other competitors can catch up. I've just been contacted quite a lot by the Amazon folks with their Kyper Cooper
00:28:33
Kyper but I don't know what I'd be curious to know is he he controls 60% of low orbit satellites. I don't know. Do
00:28:39
you need 2% 10% 20% to have a viable product? I just don't know what the the technology I feel like everyone's going
00:28:44
to chase him here and he's not going to have that advantage forever. Well, and that's that's what we want, right? We want competition. He'll either innovate
00:28:51
and maintain as lead or he won't. the the the one that I think is his biggest
00:28:57
weakness is I just think X AI. I think he's emotional about it and trying to catch up and he's not even the number
00:29:04
two. He's the distant number three or four mill. They're they're projecting
00:29:09
500 million revenues and I think I think OpenAI is projecting around 13 billion.
00:29:15
Anthropic is projecting about two billion and has carved out sort of an interesting brand as the number two
00:29:21
player, if you will. And they're they're chewing through so much cash at XAI. I
00:29:27
think they're spending about a billion dollars a month. Billion a month. Yeah. Incredible. And he's going really big.
00:29:33
$500 million in revenue. 12 billion a year. $500 million in revenue. He's building out this data center in
00:29:39
Tennessee called Colossus which is powered by over get this 100,000 Nvidia
00:29:45
GPUs. It's going to be the largest supercomputing cluster uh in the world. So, but he's also
00:29:52
facing legal challenges there because of the energy the way he's doing energy. Is that right? Yeah. Because of it's just
00:29:58
he has he had these I don't know why he wasn't first in several of these things previously. the robo I can't tell you
00:30:05
how many times he talked about robo taxis and autonomous cars years ago and I like the I like the vision but I would
00:30:11
like a delivery and everyone else delivered and he needs to focus on I just don't think it's also why did he
00:30:17
have to say it's it's like why did JD Mans have to say they're dumb presidents why did he have to say it's a trillion
00:30:22
dollar business why not not say that because now that's the number he has to beat right he's got to or get to or when
00:30:30
the first robo taxi I got in it immediately dropped down an air freshener. I don't know what that means.
00:30:36
Have you ridden in one yet? Yeah, I rode in one and I was so blown away. I was in LA and I called a Whimo and it pulled up
00:30:44
and immediately I go to an intersection where there's an accident and there's a cop with a yellow vest and those and
00:30:50
cones and I'm like, there's no [ __ ] way this thing is going to be able to figure it out. And it drove like a
00:30:56
16-year-old girl who just got her license. I'm sorry, 16-year-old boy who just got his license. very careful. And
00:31:02
you know what? The thing figured it out. It was unbel it it it said the amount of
00:31:08
sensors and processing power to go, okay, this is a law enforcement official telling me to go into the wrong lane on
00:31:14
the other side of the yellow line and I'm going to do it. They didn't used to be able to do that. Yeah. Because I have
00:31:20
sensed that this person is a law enforcement official and they are waving me over to this lane. I'm It's amazing.
00:31:25
You know what they used to have problems with is is um plastic bags blowing. That was problem. They thought that because
00:31:31
of course the people who really don't like Tesla are doing all the tests with the Tesla robo taxis and they keep
00:31:37
running over like fake children, you know, like dummies and you know that's not any good
00:31:43
for their brand. And so they I would not get in a Tesla right now cuz I don't
00:31:49
feel like they're safety is their biggest concern. I wouldn't do it. I don't like getting him to them as an Uber, but that's a different thing.
00:31:55
That's my bias. That is my bias. I I love robo taxis as you know and so I am
00:32:00
very eager to get in these things but I would not find it safe enough. I would not trust it. I just don't I don't think
00:32:06
they've squared every corner the way I think the whimo people have. Um and I'll I'll be in at zuks. It was a very good
00:32:13
experience too by the way. Um anyway and by the way I wouldn't get in GMs either. This is not an Elon thing. I was very
00:32:19
worried about their um when they were doing their their business. Now maybe they'll come back. Maybe they won't. But
00:32:25
uh we'll see. Anyway, uh, good luck, Elon. Um, I wonder if he's going to the wedding. Do you think he's going to the wedding? Uh, I don't know. No, I don't
00:32:33
think they like each other. Just so you know, Jeff Scott is free if you want. Yeah, I got nothing on this. He'll come
00:32:38
He'll come at the last minute. He'll just show he will completely he'll he'll he'll wait on you hand and foot if if
00:32:44
that's what needs. Well, we're just joking about coming at the last minute. I become the Albert Einstein of sex. And
00:32:50
that is I'll say to my partner, "That was fast for you.
00:32:56
Get it. Get it. Oh my god, that's so bad. You need to up the game on the
00:33:02
penis jokes. Okay, come on. We need some help. Comedy writer. I hope Godzilla
00:33:07
comes without wedding. And the great thing about watching Godzilla have sex as you can see it coming a mile away. Oh
00:33:12
my god. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, investors sour on big tech. Scott, we're back with more
00:33:18
news. Mark Zuckerberg's support for President Trump isn't a shock to people who know or work with him. According to a report in the Financial Times, which
00:33:24
wrote a very kind piece about you, by the way, recently, those close to Zuck say the shift. Who did the New York
00:33:29
Times write a kind piece about? Yeah, they did. They did. Those close to Zuck about me. Uh say the shift is just him
00:33:36
showing the world his authentic self instead of trying to be a good boy. One former insider said Zuckerberg saw Elon
00:33:41
Musk was popular among the tech bros and there was quote a push to make him cool unquote with new hobbies and wardrobes.
00:33:47
But Zuck and big tech don't seem to be catching the eye of the average Joe. Individual investors are cutting back on buying Magnificent 7 and other tech
00:33:53
giants according to recent report from Vander Research. Um, look, let me just tell you, Mark was always the person
00:34:01
you're seeing now. He was never a good boy. He just did it for a while cuz that's what he was supposed to do. But
00:34:06
he's always been a jerk. Always, always, always. And this stuff that he's doing now is just a version of it. Especially
00:34:13
the outfits and stuff like that. He is so he is so insecure and self-aware of what people think of him. He was always
00:34:19
ever like this and he will always be like this. So that's my opinion. But talk about the the you can talk about
00:34:25
Mark if you want but the big tech with investors. Do you think there's the the the you know the shine is off them. I I
00:34:33
see I I think it's bigger than that. I first off so goes big you know as goes big tech so goes the rest of the market.
00:34:40
And effectively the market has come back and you had essentially almost all of the
00:34:46
losses have been have been um recaptured with the exception of the MAX 7 is still
00:34:53
down a decent amount not a huge amount but they now make up about 34% of the index's market cap and currently their
00:35:01
forward looking PE is roughly 31 um which is higher than the S&P which the
00:35:06
rest of the S&P sits at 23 combined I think it's about 26. But I think what
00:35:12
you're seeing here is a decadesl long reversal in the flows of capital. And
00:35:17
the the worst thing for our economy that I think is going to vastly diminish our prosperity is we have taken for granted
00:35:24
the incredible torrential flows of both human and financial capital from the
00:35:29
rest of the world into the US. And I think that river has reversed. And uh the Euro stocks is having the
00:35:36
best relative performance of the year in comparison to the US market since 2000. In just the first quarter of this year,
00:35:43
26 billion euros flowed into the European equities markets. A significant shift. And this came after 12
00:35:49
consecutive quarters of net outflows. And currently it looks as if in this quarter we're going to see more than 31
00:35:56
billion in total positive flows which would shatter a previous record from 2015. in some carara there's a finite
00:36:03
amount of human and financial capital and financial capital has traditionally over the last 15 years flowed into the
00:36:09
US which does a couple things it lifts the price of our stocks because people want to be in US equities and they go into index funds which is spread across
00:36:16
all our equities and it and it increases the dollar strength and the dollar has
00:36:21
declined despite the fact we're offering greater interest rates if you buy our treasuries because we're no longer seen as a safe bet the dollar has weakened
00:36:28
about 10% the dollar has been the weakest of the kind of mature economies currencies because the reality is caris
00:36:35
a lot of people are waking up to the notion that it's been an incredible run but we're going to invest some money in
00:36:41
Asian, Latin American and European stocks. Yep. Absolutely. I think it's we are not the as you said last week the
00:36:48
shine is off our country in terms of brand equity and stuff like that and we'll see if it returns obviously if if
00:36:54
the economy does better etc. But it certainly is. It's not a surprise. Um, as to any thoughts on Zuckerberg? I
00:37:01
think he's always been the same way. I don't think he's changed one little bit. He's an unusual guy. I don't, you know,
00:37:08
he's very performative. He's very performative. You know him much better than I. I think this is I think most of
00:37:13
these guys didn't get enough attention from women as younger men. Yeah. I just And are constantly I I don't know. I
00:37:20
just think this is very these guys there's some something broken about these guys that they would I don't
00:37:26
understand the point of all deep insecurity. That's all it is. It's like he's always he's just um he he like
00:37:33
sweated insecurity since the get-go. He was always somehow trying to impress. What do you think? I mean literally the
00:37:38
first thing he said to me is you think I'm an [ __ ] don't you? And I don't even know you. Like it was so weird and
00:37:45
performative and I don't know whatever. Mark be you. I'd love to know who he is.
00:37:50
Actually, would be interesting. And if he's a jerk, he's a jerk. And in AI news, Sam Alman says Meta has offered
00:37:56
his employees signing bonuses as high as hund00 million in an attempt to poach staffers. Let's listen to what else he
00:38:01
had to say about Meta on the Uncapped podcast. Meta thinks of us as their biggest competitor. And you know, I
00:38:08
think it is rational for them to keep trying. Their current AI efforts have not worked as well as they've hoped. And
00:38:14
I respect like being aggressive and continuing to try new things. And and I and again given that I think this is
00:38:19
like rational, I expect that if this one doesn't work out, they'll keep trying new ones after that. Was so good at
00:38:25
insulting the backhanded compliment. He does this all the time. He's really so obvious and good at it. But um you
00:38:32
know that's you know it's not the only grab meta is making for AI competitors. The company's also discussed buying
00:38:37
perplexity AI before investing in scale AI. Um you know this is what he does. This is what Mark does is he pays and
00:38:44
pays and pays and burns through a lot of money and tends to win. In this case, I think he's going to have a much harder
00:38:49
time. Again, as we discussed with uh Elon Musk, there are competitors here and they're good competitors. Um I think
00:38:56
probably Google is probably OpenAI's biggest competitors. Of course, there's Microsoft, there's Apple once it decides
00:39:03
to, you know, uh get, you know, pull its pants on and get going. Um, so I don't I
00:39:08
think it's a little harder for him to win when he was only in the social media space and here he is in a much bigger
00:39:14
space and it's going to be a lot harder. He's not necessarily as good at this. So your thoughts again I kind of bifurcated
00:39:21
open AI has become the hertz and anthropic is is the avis right the
00:39:28
number numbers one and two the but but meta I think is still arguably gains
00:39:36
more market cap from AI innovation this year than any other big company because
00:39:41
what I see is a company that has incredibly strong leadership and very
00:39:47
strategic thinking from Mark Zuckerberg which has sometimes been to the detriment of society real large. He's
00:39:54
the second largest purchaser of GPUs and he has 170 trillion tokens of Gris to
00:40:02
stuff into that furnace of GPUs in the form of data collected across
00:40:08
platforms where four and five people outside of China are on these platforms you know every day. So he has he has all
00:40:15
the assets. Now, how does it manifest in terms of shareholder value? I don't think it's llama or some sort of
00:40:21
consumerf facing AI program. I think how it manifests in terms of um in terms of
00:40:27
shareholder value is I just think it's going to be a pretty grim year. I think the I think anyone that's not meta
00:40:35
is going to have basically a very very small offering at can next year because
00:40:41
I think their offering using AI is going to be so incredible to advertisers. It's like, "Oh, you you can only spend your
00:40:47
budget is 100,000. We'll produce a commercial for you in about 2 hours with decent prompts. We'll optimize the media
00:40:54
plan. You give us the objectives." And they're just going further and further up and down specialize. Yeah. Up and
00:41:01
down the food chain of the one and a half% of the economy. I mean, it they're they're not even they've already gone
00:41:08
after the big guys. They've already gutted WP Omnicom and to a lesser extent Puby which has Embrace Technology.
00:41:15
They're going to go after regional agencies now. They're going to go after small producers that produce these
00:41:22
little commercials for Toyota of Northern California and they're going to say using our AI you don't need to go
00:41:27
anywhere else. You don't need creative. You don't need media planning. You don't need So what you're saying is the area they have already excelled in. They will
00:41:32
continue. They don't really need to win the open AI consumer product thing. They don't need a consumerf facing AI. Even
00:41:39
if llama doesn't compete with open AI and with anthropic or with clo or
00:41:45
claude, I don't know what they're calling it. No, it's not CL. It's not CL. It's Claude. My best my best
00:41:51
employee at L2 was a a French Canadian woman named Clode. Okay. Uh, by the way, if someone who's a Canadian immigrant
00:41:58
who was on the Yale gymnastics team shows up to your office, just hire them automatic hire. All right. Elite
00:42:03
athletes, individual sports, female. Anyways, the back end, the the tech stack they're offering to marketers
00:42:09
right now, it's like, okay, good luck competing with that. And the only people that can compete with it are Alphabet
00:42:16
because they have such incredible dominance around YouTube and then they can feed it with still what is 89% share
00:42:23
of search. But I just look at I just it just we're just a can it cracks me up.
00:42:29
Pretty soon Meta's Beach is going to be San Trope. They're going to be like, "Do you want to come to San Trope?" this
00:42:34
entire week. It's the Meta Beach and all of the rest of you will invite you come
00:42:41
to your we're going to come to the best party uh before your execution. It just
00:42:48
strikes me that any of these people would accept an invitation to go to Meta Beach. They don't have to win everywhere. That is what you're saying.
00:42:54
Essentially, they can just win in these areas that are they're going to win among companies looking to looking to
00:43:01
acquire marketers and spend their media dollar. I think it was John Womaker who said half the money I spent on
00:43:06
advertising is wasted. Uh the trouble is I don't know which half. Meta Meta can
00:43:12
tell you and Meta can say I tell you what instead of wasting that 50% with other people bring it to us spend 30 of
00:43:19
it save 20 and and we'll go from 50% not knowing where it's going or it's not effective to to 10 to 5 to 3 to one
00:43:26
because we'll test it a million times. I think the question is can Chad GBT hold on to its Kleenex, you know, name like
00:43:33
are they Google? Are they Google synonymous with it? Yeah, we'll see. We'll see if they can. Um, last thing,
00:43:38
President Trump has extended the deadline for the Tik Tok ban by 90 days. Yet again, this marks the third
00:43:44
extension after an initial deadline of January 19th. A reported deal came to a halt amid US and China trade tensions
00:43:51
earlier this year. JD Vance was supposedly doing this with the guy who left Waltz or he's sort of left. I don't
00:43:58
know where they put him. Um, but that's who was working on it. It looks like they're not even working on it. And so
00:44:03
tech Tik Tok was having a lot of parties at Khan. So I don't know. What do you What do you Look, I think Tik Tok is the
00:44:09
most undervalued company in tech right now. It's trading at the same valuation as as um Open AAI with 15 times the
00:44:17
revenue. It's trading at like one and a half to three times revenues depending on if you're looking at forward or trailing 12 months. Everyone thinks, oh
00:44:24
well, what about the insecurity, the overhang that's keeping that valuation low because of uh insecurity around the US market. It's clear that Trump has
00:44:31
decided he likes Tik Tok. He's not taken seriously. It's likely not going to be banned right now. Jeff Yas owns 15% of
00:44:38
the company, gave $und00 million to Republican candidates, and only 20% of
00:44:44
the revenue comes from the United States. So, this thing is a juggernaut. And also, just personally, I think it's
00:44:50
the most addictive of all the platforms. I could I could right now go upstairs,
00:44:56
take off my shoes, take an edible, and be on TikTok for 28 hours and not know what happened. I just think it is in
00:45:02
that algorithm is incredible. They continue to grow. And the notion somehow
00:45:08
that he keeps extending these deadlines, I mean, they they will never come to the
00:45:14
table. Why would they? Why on earth would they take anything this guy takes
00:45:19
seriously? So, I think it's an incredible company. I think they're going to be one of the if they ever decide to go public, if the Chinese will
00:45:26
let them go public, it'll be I was even and I like to talk about what I'm doing to to show you know rather than giving
00:45:33
financial advice, what am I doing? I have been diversifying out of US stocks into European stocks for the better part
00:45:39
of a year now. I'm also contemplating going into the private market and going to one of these secondary markets
00:45:44
whether it's setter or some of the others and seeing if and when I can pick up a block of bike dance because I think
00:45:52
at a valuation of 300 billion I think this there is no company performing as well at this price to sales ratio as Tik
00:46:00
Tok the overhang of the geopolitical risk of the US is vastly overestimated
00:46:06
in terms of Tik Tok's valuation or by dance's valuation yep So, we'll see. They're probably going to do nothing.
00:46:11
Like, I think it's just an all I I I I honestly they'll probably just decide suddenly and we'll have some strange
00:46:18
deal, but certainly Elon's not may not be part of it the way that people thought would be. Um, they thought he
00:46:24
had the insight. All this she doesn't scare this all this armwaving that Larry Ellison that that
00:46:30
that Trump's going to get to carve up Bance's US operations like a like a cake
00:46:36
and give it to his Republican buddies. She's just like, "Let Yeah, let have at it. Good luck." Do what you want. Waste
00:46:43
your time. Continue to excel. Anyway, waste your time. Uh, we'll see. It probably will they'll probably do it sometime around the next election would
00:46:50
be my guess. We make the mistake of believing that Chinese companies like America are run for profits and shareholder value. The run for control.
00:46:57
He's not going to give up control even if it costs a lot in shareholder value. Anyway, Trump made a big deal of it and
00:47:02
now of course it's off to the side as it's mostly the same thing. We're on to something else. I don't even know what we're going to be on to this week unless
00:47:09
Iron D drives us back in. All right. Uh, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear
00:47:17
some wins and fails. I I'm Shall I start? Yes, please. Um, I love I
00:47:23
actually was very um with some stuff in Los Angeles. both Bob Iger's the I think
00:47:28
it's the Angels soccer team and others and the Dodgers have donated have been doing things donate in the case of the
00:47:34
Dodgers they donated a million dollars to assist families impacted by immigration raids it's a small amount of money but I kind of like that they stood
00:47:41
up a little bit there people are showing little signs even Bob Iger with they put out uh t-shirts about immigration for
00:47:47
their um the soccer team did I like little standups I'm I'm seeing a lot of really cool little standups all over the
00:47:54
place but people who should have stood up a long time ago show, but I um I I I
00:47:59
really appreciate them. And the one I appreciate the most uh in terms of a win was your uh your side piece, Jessica
00:48:06
Taroff, on raging moderates. Uh your co-host called uh Trump called her a
00:48:11
disgrace to television broadcasting. I think she's killing it on the five and
00:48:16
she does a very good job in your show, but on the five is where he notices it, just so you know. Um and I thought uh I
00:48:22
thought that was great that she got I loved it. And I was like, "Go Jessica." She's a standup gal is what she is. And
00:48:29
I really appreciate how she does that. I really I like And she sticks to it. She's very firm, very clever. She's very
00:48:36
funny. Um, and so I like all these people that are doing little standups that are that that um that they do, but
00:48:41
she's my favorite this week of all of the different ones. Uh, my fail is are are the the Medicaid cuts that are
00:48:48
coming. Um uh well I had two fails but this is these cuts that are coming to
00:48:53
Medicaid are going to eviscerate certain states like West Virginia and others um
00:48:58
because um it's it's just it's going to be so bad when these if these cuts are
00:49:04
passed. Now, I know it seems like we've forgotten about the big beautiful bill, but when it goes into effect, I think it's going to have some of the worst
00:49:11
um states like uh West Virginia, Kentucky, others, um they're reliant on
00:49:18
this program and uh these deep spending reductions with the states taking over them is those states it's not going to
00:49:24
happen. And so that's I feel sorry for these people even though they I think the way they vote it was against their
00:49:30
self-interest. Uh but it still is, you know, these are states that are behind
00:49:36
already and they're going to be more behind um going forward and that's unfortunate. Yeah. So I I love your I
00:49:43
was not expecting I love your your win. That'll mean a lot to Jess. She has a a lot of respect for you. Your opinion
00:49:48
matters a lot to her and you know she's doing something right when Trump calls her out. Um so I think she wears that
00:49:54
correctly. She should as a badge of honor. Um I have sort of two wins or a win and a prediction. My first win is a
00:50:01
little less serious. Uh have you seen the series Mob Land? No, not not yet. No, it's outstanding. Is it? Um yeah, it
00:50:08
really just the the cast, the writing. Really just a fantastic Tom Hardy, who I
00:50:14
think is just a movie star. Oh, it's with who who else is in it? Oh, Pierce Braz.
00:50:20
Yeah, he's great. He's really He might I wouldn't be surprised if he gets an award. I think it's time for him to get
00:50:26
some recognition. He's very handsome. Patty Considine, who actually played one
00:50:31
of the leads in um um uh House of Dragons, is in it. Um uh
00:50:39
there's just the cast is just the cast is fantastic. It's very violent. I I like my mob story
00:50:46
about the UK. The guy who plays um uh oh
00:50:52
gosh, what's his name? uh Daniel Betts. He plays the rival family, the Pierce
00:50:57
Brosman character, the the patriarch of the rival mob family. It's just outstanding. It's such um good
00:51:03
entertainment. And also, it took me it's taken me about 4 hours to figure out how
00:51:08
to [ __ ] download Paramount Plus. Um I mean, it's like I haven't watched a lot
00:51:14
on Paramount Plus, and boy, it's not easy. Uh but anyways, my win is and for those of you who who enjoy media, Mob
00:51:21
Land's fantastic. My other win is more of a prediction and that is Reed Hastings in my prediction joining the
00:51:27
board of Anthropic. And the reason why is I think Reed is arguably one of the
00:51:33
brightest business people in the world in terms of pulling off the biggest pivots. And when I look at Netflix's
00:51:38
Achilles heel, it's the following. YouTube is able to uh capture a minute for half
00:51:45
the price or 40% of the price of Netflix. Why? because they pay the
00:51:50
creators directly and it's a commissionbased program. So if Netflix could say to a doc person, I'll give you
00:51:56
a million dollars for your documentary knowing they'll get two million back, that's a superior business model and that's what YouTube has. And I think
00:52:03
YouTube is going to do potentially to Netflix what Netflix did to Comcast and
00:52:08
Fox. So, as a result, I think Reed Hastings, now on the board of Anthropic, is going to announce within 12 months
00:52:15
that he is partnering with Anthropic, who by the way is looking for big, big
00:52:20
deals to take some oxygen away from the number one, Open AAI, and that Netflix
00:52:26
and Anthropic are going to announce a tick- tock like competitor that slices
00:52:31
and dices the fattest longtail of content in history, and that is the Netflix library, of which 99% probably
00:52:38
gets 1% % viewership and they'll slice it and dice it, have it be open source so creators can add voiceovers, do have
00:52:45
fun with it, and they'll launch a competitor that attempts to recognize that this newest generation is so
00:52:51
attention diffused and Tik Tok is so strong that they'll take the AI from anthropic and
00:52:58
the content of Netflix and launch a Tik Tok competitor. I think what's interesting about YouTube is they have
00:53:03
no production costs the way now there was an interesting thing uh that this great analyst always does is that you
00:53:10
know and then there's TubeB which sort of does that too right it goes to the it's a really it's been growing like
00:53:16
crazy because of the way it selects things for people in in the in the long tail of content essentially and what's
00:53:23
interesting about it is that they can survive together because some creators want the want the money to develop on
00:53:30
YouTube you you know, it's pay your own, you know, bring your own bring your own liquor to the store, to the to the
00:53:36
restaurant. And so, I think they're they could live together. But you're right, Netflix is is under will be under siege
00:53:42
from YouTube if YouTube starts to pay for production a little bit more. Anyway, it's an interesting it's an
00:53:48
interesting time. It certainly is. Um, that's a great one. That's a really good one. Anyway, uh uh we want to hear from
00:53:55
you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot
00:54:00
to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. And elsewhere in the Cara and Scott universe. This week is on
00:54:06
with Cara Swisser. I spoke with writer and political commentator Molly Jungfast about her new um memoir which details
00:54:13
her relationship with her mother. Let's listen to a clip. Sometimes the children of narcissists become stuck on trying to
00:54:20
fix their relationships with their narcissistic parents despite the fact that there's not any
00:54:27
role for them to play and that they they over sort of become overly guilty
00:54:33
because of that. And that made so much sense that it made me think that that's what I did. I know all about that.
00:54:39
Anyway, it was a great interview. Uh do you remember Erica Jong, Fear of Flying? Yeah, it's a great book. Let me tell
00:54:46
you, all of my mom's friends had that book. Yeah. Yep. Well, this is a daughter who's a really good political
00:54:51
commentator now. And this book is really good. Actually, it's a really interesting and it's not very long.
00:54:56
Always a thoughtful woman. She is. But this book I was I was sort of well, I have I have similar experiences. Anyway,
00:55:03
uh that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Uh
00:55:09
we'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Larara Naman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, Kevin
00:55:14
Oliver, and Karen Ruff. Ernie and her Todd engineering this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miss Seo, Dan
00:55:19
Shalon, and Kate Gallagher. Nako as Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your
00:55:25
favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at
00:55:31
nymag.com/pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and
00:55:36
business. women out there. Do you really want men who are more sensitive and more in touch with their feelings? All that
00:55:42
gets us is two people crying in the car trying to parallel park. Happy wedding, Jeff Bezos.
