00:00:00
Just so you know, excessive ketamine causes you to pee too much. We got the world's most powerful man, the
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president, and the world's wealthiest man, both wearing diapers.
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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser. And I'm Scott
00:00:18
Galloway. How you doing, Scott? Where are you? What What is behind you? Is that another AI situation? Another
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situation? No, I'm in uh I'm at the Fine Hotel in South Beach. I was in Oh, you're in this Paris over the weekend. I
00:00:31
went to the French Open open which was lovely. And um then I jumped on a plane
00:00:36
yesterday and came here. Forgot my computer on the plane. What? Computer on the plane. My third computer
00:00:43
I've left on a plane. Um this year, year to date, I've left three computers on planes. Um why? Because if my dick
00:00:50
wasn't attached, you'd find it on a card table next to a script of Good Fellas in Soho. Cara, I'm so glad I didn't find
00:00:57
that. That would be what would I do with it if I found your dick? That's an interesting question. There you go. Um,
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so I lose everything, but I'm at the I'm safe and sound at the Fina and my good friend Pablo Doritus saved my ass or
00:01:10
bacon and got me a new Macintosh and Drew and the team have fired it up and now I'm doing podcasts. Are you ever
00:01:16
getting your computer back? Uh, the wonderful thing about technology now is it doesn't matter. I'll get I've already
00:01:23
I'll have a new one for me when I get back to New York and it they're dumb appliances. It's all in the cloud now.
00:01:28
So, so some lucky flight attendant has a lot of porn coming his way this weekend.
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I I left things on planes and I go and find them. I go to the lost and found and I dig through it and I found all my
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stuff dispersed. Um all kinds of things. So, I go and look for things when I leave them. Yeah, I do the trade-off. It
00:01:46
I I was going to go back to the airport and I figured it would cost me a half a day and I don't I don't want to do it. I'd rather get another Yeah. You're not
00:01:52
worried about people getting access to your things on that on that laptop? all your secrets. Yeah. I I don't know. So,
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they want to know they want to know like what cockgobbler site I'm I'm spending time at or like what I have a lot of
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personal stuff on my computer. No. Yeah. My my life isn't that interesting. It's pretty much arrested adolescence and
00:02:12
someone who doesn't like themsel. It's not going to be a it's not going to be that interesting a journey. But you're right about the that you move your stuff
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moves with you throughout the cloud now. It's really your computer doesn't matter. It's just a dumb appliance
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tapping into the cloud. It really doesn't. My I think it's much I lose a
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lot of laptops. I think it's much more damaging when you lose your um phone. Um
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cuz that's takes harder to put together. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I noticed at your apartment you have a drawer of G of
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like AirPods and extra things for your computer because you seem probably you
00:02:46
lose them, right? So, they're sitting there. I think one of the there's a few things in your life that really canote luxury and economic security and one for
00:02:52
me is I don't have keys. I cannot have keys. I'm physically incapable of holding on to keys and I have no keys.
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Mhm. What about like a wallet? You have a wallet though, right? Uh, no. Now I just use my phone. Although actually I
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carry my black car cuz it signals masculinity. So I do like to throw that down and say, "Daddy's here. Daddy's
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here." And he's bringing You throw it down. You throw it. Oh yeah. That's right. You can't make that big titanium.
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That makes that big titanium sound like That's right. Uhhuh. That's right. Mate with me and your kids are more likely to
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survive than if you mate with someone who has a discovering anymore. So what why do you need to have throw down the card? You never stop wanting though.
00:03:30
Okay the card. Okay. All right. Whatever. I'm in San Francisco. What are you doing? Enough about me. I'm in San
00:03:36
Francisco again. Yes. I'm here for a week. Why are you there? I'm filming a
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secret thing. Filming a secret thing. Yeah. I can't talk about it cuz stupid
00:03:46
company won't let me. Whatever. I'm filming a thing. I'm going to be jumping in in the Pacific Ocean. NPR on cuts to
00:03:52
the National Forestry Service DEI department with special report with Caris Swiss. Yes, that's what I'm doing.
00:03:58
Um, but I will be jumping in the Pacific eating oysters and hanging out with my brother among other things part of this
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filming. Yeah, it's nice. Yeah. So, I love being in San Francisco. It's really nice. Your health thing you roped me
00:04:09
into? What? Yeah, I'm You're doing it with me. Yes, you are doing it with me. You have to. This is not a Our
00:04:16
relationship is over if you're not in it because I will cry. I will cry. Uh yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, we're going to do it.
00:04:22
It's going to be fun. Um it's a thing that has to do with health that I'm doing for uh an organization I have a
00:04:27
relationship with. Anyway, um does it does it does it rhyme with CNN? Yes, it does. Um anyway, it's a great team.
00:04:34
We're going to have a great time. Doctor, it's not as much as I can say or else I'll get a call from one of our on the new American Mail from Fox Report.
00:04:41
Deal with your debt and don't call me when I'm trying to make some money for you. Anyway, I'm here and then uh it's
00:04:46
going to be fun. I I was going to have the kids be out here and Amanda, but Claire is in public school, so she has
00:04:52
to she's there till the end of June, which is interesting. Um, so she can't uh she must finish her. Well, what's
00:04:58
interesting about that? I'm I'm still waiting. I'm just saying. I just She's still in school. So, anyway, I'm here
00:05:03
and I'm going to have a great time. You guys have big plans for the summer? What did the Swissers do over the summer? No, I'm going to be taping this series. Um,
00:05:09
but going to Vermont. Um, I think we'll probably go to Vermont. We'll do.
00:05:16
Sorry. We're not the Galloways that are like go from Aspen to Dingd. What's the point of what's the point of making all
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this money to go to Vermont? I don't want to go to Aspen and hang out with you. Why would I want to do that? Vermont is pretty. You so want to hang
00:05:28
out with me. I do. I like hanging out with let me say I I I am going to do a
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great vacation next year. Next year. Next summer. I'm going to do Greece. When you hit 70, you're going to start
00:05:40
slowing down. You're going to stop and smell the road. or Greece. That is next summer. That is what's going to happen.
00:05:45
Oh, I love both those places. I'm not a big vacationer. I told you this already. Anyway, here or there. San Francisco is
00:05:51
beautiful. I had delicious oysters yesterday. It was lovely. Lovely day. I put away the Christmas tree, but I'm not going to get into that. Hasn't it was
00:05:57
still up for 6 months now. All right, we've got a lot to get to today, including Elon Musk and ketamine. Uh,
00:06:04
obviously Trump's latest fight with China and Taylor Swift's blockbuster business move. But first, Senator Joanie
00:06:10
Ernst of Iowa had some very comforting words about Medicaid cuts for constituents at a town hall on Friday.
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Well, we all are going to die. [Music]
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Oh my god. But thank goodness she's such an [ __ ] to her constituents, but thank goodness she apologized afterwards
00:06:28
on Instagram. Here's what she had to say. Uh-oh. I made an incorrect assumption that
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everyone in the auditorium understood that yes, we are all going to
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perish from this earth. So, I apologize and I'm really really glad
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that I did not have to bring up the subject of the tooth fairy as well. Oh
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my god. What? What? She I didn't She did a non-apology apology. She was making fun of people for being angry at her.
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She is not Joanie. You're not Trump. Just so you know, you don't do a good job. You sound like an [ __ ] So, it's
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interesting. They're all trying to cosplay Trump and none of them are good at it. So, she was like, "You [ __ ]
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who thought I was mad for saying we're all going to die when people were concerned about Medicaid." I mean, she's
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not a serious public servant if she can't be like, "Suck it up and answer a question." And then she trolls them like
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a 12-year-old boy. It's insane. I think more importantly, do you know what um I
00:07:34
have in common after my vasctomy with a Christmas tree? I don't know where this is going. Go ahead. Why not? We both
00:07:41
have decorative balls. All right. Back to back to back to
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Joanie. Okay. Look, the the thing that has become an unfortunate theme in the
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Republican party and I also think across America right now, and I was just talking to Jess about this, is I think
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social media has created has such a strong profit incentive in getting
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people pitted against each other and enraging them and then at the same time speedballing that rage by shoving all of
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the prosperity that everyone else seems to be enjoying that people are just so
00:08:15
upset and so angry and that they respond to the Republican party being a little bit cruel and coarse. And I think
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unfortunately across the Republican party, you're seeing this adoption of a narrative where uh they conflate
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leadership with cruelty and coarseness. And I just don't think you ever would have heard a senator say that. I I don't
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I was shocked. I was sort of like really like you but they're all cosplaying
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Trump. Is it effective? Like think of it from a marketing point of view.
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All I could tell you like no one thought it was funny like with Trump it might be funny like you might take it. Do you
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think it works across other and especially I'm sorry to tell you Joanie doesn't work for a woman. It doesn't
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work for a woman to be a dick. Like I that's my feeling and I hate to be sexist about it but she seemed like such
00:09:04
a stupid little [ __ ] But what do you think? Yeah, I I I think it reflects something um deeper and more
00:09:11
uncomfortable about the United States and that is we've decided that you can cut America first. Okay. So, we're not
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we're not we're closing down hospitals in Myanmar for people with serious diseases or or food kitchens and war
00:09:25
torn parts of Ukraine. But that somehow has been conflated with leadership that courarss and cruelty. And I think that I these these
00:09:34
Republican town halls have been awful for Republicans. They make for really good TikTok moments, but I worry they're
00:09:40
not indicative of how a lot of America feels where America is America feels
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that okay, you have these these Democratic elitists that after they make
00:09:51
their money with low taxes all of a sudden get very concerned about me. 40% of American households have some sort of
00:09:56
medical or dental debt. And every day, 210 times a day on my phone, I'm reminded about people having
00:10:02
extraordinary lives that I'm not participating in. And then I have a social media platform that I spend five
00:10:08
or seven hours a day on trying to convince me that it's my neighbor who's the enemy, not people pouring over, not soldiers pouring over the border in
00:10:14
Ukraine. And I think there's just so much rage in America and so much anger against other Americans that an
00:10:22
unfortunately large number of Americans kind of enjoy this harshness and this cruelty
00:10:29
and distinct of what Jony's doing or Senator Ernst I just think we've lost a little bit a lot of at the hands of I
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don't think people recognize just how how much our discourse has been coarsened by social media and that
00:10:43
people have been people have And have people in the t I was thinking just about dating. Do you remember when you
00:10:48
were in your 20s and 30s and you were dating? Do you remember the politics of anyone you dated? No. It didn't come
00:10:54
up. And you didn't. There was a general sense that as Americans, we were these
00:11:00
good people and we had a certain comety and a certain thing in common. You know what? Men and women liked each other.
00:11:05
I've been thinking about this a lot. I think social media has done a great job of convincing the genders that the other
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gender is the problem. that men believe that women's ascent is the culprit for their descent
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and that's not true at all. Whereas women think it's the patriarchy and that men don't have problems. They are the
00:11:25
problem. We've convinced that gender is the greatest alliance in history to dislike each other. Yeah, I think there was hatred before that. I think it's
00:11:32
just it becomes it becomes manifest when it's when she does like she may have been irritated at this town hall for
00:11:38
example cuz someone yelled at her. And by the way, if you're a senator, [ __ ] man up, Joanie. If someone yells at you,
00:11:45
have the grace to be able to answer without being a douche nozzle. But um but I think that she she is doing
00:11:52
something that is coarse and rude and I don't think it works. I think people are like what? Like why are you such I think
00:11:59
there is still a sense of certain decor and I agree with you. I was always worried about social media spilling out
00:12:06
into the world, right? And it has whether you're in a car, people yell at you on the street. Um, you know, there's
00:12:14
more and more and more of that that people behave online offline like they do online. That said, I don't think
00:12:20
doubling down on douchery is the way to go. And I do think people are going there's going to be a reaction to it.
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Um, when it's other people, not Trump. I think people get tired people are already tired of it with Trump. I think
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they don't look you see losses in all these places that they shouldn't be losing in. And I do think common I think
00:12:40
there's a real opening for someone with common decency and calm it the [ __ ] down everybody. I do. I don't think everyone
00:12:45
wants to stay spend their lives as a 12-year-old [ __ ] But it has to be decency. I think so. For example, I
00:12:52
think the real opportunity that Democrats are missing is to propose an alternative to this tax bill where we
00:12:58
seize this enormous white space of the adult in the room where we say, "Okay, this is our plan. Um, we're going to
00:13:05
raise uh and we're going to we're going to means test social security and raise the age limit. We're going to
00:13:11
dramatically lower the exemption for uh the trust exemption. We are going to
00:13:16
increase taxes on corporations and the wealthy. And we are going to across the board hold Medicaid, Social Security,
00:13:22
and military spending flat for the next 15 years and even cut it 2% a year. And within 8 years, we're going to reduce
00:13:28
the deficit from two trillion a year to 200 billion a year. And what they would do is Fox News and CNN would all line up
00:13:35
these bills next to each other and say, "Okay, one expands the deficit or adds
00:13:41
to the deficit three and threequarters trillion dollars. This one will reduce the deficit. It'll never pass. It has no
00:13:46
hopes." But it would position the Democrats as the adults in the room. Rah Emanuel saying this this forget about
00:13:52
the for reals. Talk about what you do whether you're gonna make it happen or not. Clutch we're clutching our pearls
00:13:59
and and highlighting these very real, very ugly things that are happening rather than saying, "Okay, you guys have
00:14:06
to be more than what's bad about what they're doing. You have to propose your own solution." Agreed. I agree with you.
00:14:12
I do think there's but I think there's what I'm saying is in her doing this this is what she's got the opening is to
00:14:18
not just be the adult in the room be the like good person in the room right like the one who's going to help people and I
00:14:24
do think people get tired of the dunking they do they don't like doing it themselves most people don't and they
00:14:31
don't like it being done to them and so I do think there's an opening the adult in the room is a good way to put it but
00:14:36
a a kind adult in the room um and I don't I think there's a huge opening for a Democrat to be like that um uh Texas
00:14:43
Gov, speaking of adults, uh Texas Governor Greg Abbott has signed a bill requiring an app stores to verify users
00:14:49
ages to protect children online. The bill, which will go into effect at the start of next year, makes Texas the second state to patch such legislation
00:14:55
following Utah. Apple has argued the strategy will threaten the privacy of all users. They have good argument that
00:15:00
way. Meta argues the app stores are the best party for the job. They're trying to trade it back and forth. It's a
00:15:06
really complex topic because it does come into privacy issues and at the same time we you and I agree that they should
00:15:13
there's got to be some way. I just don't know who should be policing this this situation. Um would
00:15:19
we be in a better place if all states pass similar legislation? Are we better off if the bill you know having hope in
00:15:25
a bill like KOSA or whatever? What how do you feel about this? cuz who is the one that should I mean cigarette
00:15:31
manufacturers kind of have to have those warnings and the people who sell the cigarettes have to not sell it to kids
00:15:39
even though sometimes that happens same thing with liquor um what are your thoughts on this I feel like you know
00:15:44
more about this than I do my when people come up with when they're faced with the pro or the issue of is it at the device
00:15:50
level or at the app level I think the answer is yes and that is with tobacco I
00:15:55
think both retailers and manufacturers face liability Um, and my sense is okay in terms of age
00:16:03
gating, it feels like it should be at the device level because it it seems like we'd be more efficient and right
00:16:09
cover everybody. Yeah. To say, okay, we because we can track your activity
00:16:14
across all apps, we have a pretty good sense for what your age is. And we don't, you know, we don't allow anyone
00:16:20
under the age of 16 to have car keys or operate a car. So why would we let anyone under the age of 16 operate? I I
00:16:26
don't think anyone under the age of 16 should be able to operate a smartphone. I don't think you put a video arcade, a
00:16:32
porn site, uh Netflix, and a casino in a
00:16:37
15-year-old's pocket. I just don't think that's a good idea. And and then they have an incentive to make it so
00:16:43
complicated that parents can't figure out parental controls. We tried to implement parental controls for my my
00:16:49
son last weekend and within about 3 minutes he'd figured out the password and reinstalled everything. So unless
00:16:57
it's a so I guess what I'm talking about is at the device level maybe but I still think the app should be on the hook for
00:17:04
for a second layer of protection. What are your thoughts? I think you need to wear two condoms here. I think the
00:17:10
difficulty is I say when you go to a bar they look at your license for a second and you keep it. So it's not a privacy
00:17:15
issue. I think the idea of Apple collecting people's data like that seems a little troubling. It could privacy.
00:17:23
Well, because that argument at all. Well, no, that's their argument is that you they would be they would be keeping
00:17:31
the data of people's in ways that they don't now, right? They don't know who picks up their phone or whoever is. And
00:17:37
so there there are problematic situations of how you store that information and who knows who can see it
00:17:44
etc etc etc. So there there there's no question there's not a privacy issue because it's it's a persistent uh
00:17:51
validation right as opposed to where do you have a persistent validation except with the government and your license
00:17:57
plate I suppose in a way with airlines when you fly when you give them your
00:18:03
data or your birthday and stuff like that. So there's always going to be a privacy problem and there's going to be
00:18:08
a people who steal it or or some you know issues around it. But it seems to me the device is where it should be and
00:18:16
and at the same time um that that there there should be some liability for in
00:18:22
this case Apple is the well no there is the retailer I
00:18:28
guess and Meta is the cigarette manufacturer right and so I think both
00:18:33
of them should have some culpability they should be working together rather than fighting over who has to deal with
00:18:38
it in some fashion to make you know especially the top 10 biggest apps, for
00:18:44
example, should all be working with all the device makers to make not just Apple, but Google and everything else.
00:18:50
So, probably the device maker, but there's the the whole privacy argument I find just so cynical and indefensible
00:18:56
because I have to give up my privacy every time I go on a get on a plane. Not only that, they they get to go through
00:19:02
my liquids. They get to they know where I'm going. And by the way, if I if I buy a one-way ticket, they violated my
00:19:08
privacy and they're more likely to do an additional security screening. They know my age. They know my status. They look
00:19:14
the guy at immigration looks through my passport and asks me when was I in Israel and what was I doing there? You
00:19:22
Americans part of a part of a modern society is the following compact. You agree to have a certain amount of your
00:19:27
privacy violated in exchange for utility. And what they're claiming is that the privacy violation of a
00:19:34
15-year-old knowing their age and identity. Think about how ridiculous that is. So instead, we're going to
00:19:40
enable this person to give their data and have their data molested by the CCP of who they are, their preferences,
00:19:47
their sexual orientation, what they do, what their key relationships are. I mean, the notion that these people give
00:19:52
a flying [ __ ] about their privacy is just so it's it's just not it's
00:19:58
laughable. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think they should I think we should have a national bill like this and we should know who's using our phones and and it
00:20:05
on the road to younger people being restricted from using social media and I'm sorry kids that's what Scott got and
00:20:11
I think cuz we're old grandpas. Well but but one of the most powerful forces in the universe is biology specifically the
00:20:18
ch the ways we change mature evolve grow and die. And I don't think we spend
00:20:23
enough time talking about what a powerful metric and indicator and arbiter of these rules age is. For
00:20:29
example, if you are under the age of 16, you should not have a smartphone. If you are under the age of 21, you should not
00:20:35
have alcohol. If you're under the age of 18, you should not be allowed to join the military. If you are over the age of 75, you shouldn't be allowed to run for
00:20:40
[ __ ] president. And instead, we've decided that we have this amazing indicator that is 95% of Americans over
00:20:48
a certain age are incapable of doing a certain thing. 100% of people under the
00:20:53
age of 16 do not make great decisions around drugs. So it why would we not
00:20:59
leverage this amazing thing called biology as indicated by this other thing called age and time? It's for for all of
00:21:07
time it has been a consistent indicator of someone's cognitive ability decline. And yet we decided with technology and
00:21:14
with presidential elections we're just going to ignore biology. You have convinced me biology is undefeated. I
00:21:20
actually said that this weekend to someone I'm like oh my god I'm quoting Scott Galloway. What is wrong with me? None of us is getting out of here alive.
00:21:26
Cara, we're with Texas. Oh god, we're with Texas. But we are. All right. Also, this is something I want. Listen, I'm
00:21:32
going to put a challenge to Scott Galloway here. I want you have a serious take without a single Taylor joke.
00:21:39
Taylor Swift has regained ownership of her master recordings after a year's long attempt. Uh, Swift's masters were
00:21:45
previously owned by private equity firm Shamrock Capital, which who purchased them from music manager Scooter Braun in
00:21:51
2020. The rights include Swift's first six albums, music videos, concert films, and more. She remade a lot of the songs
00:21:59
that were on the Masters, Taylor's version in order to go around them, and they become very popular. Actually, I I
00:22:05
on most of the services you get Swiss version of her masters, but she didn't own them. She reportedly paid around
00:22:11
$360 million in the deal. I would like a serious take. What do you think about this, about her doing this? I think it's
00:22:18
capitalism. I think if she wants to own her own her own catalog that's her business. I don't think she has any I
00:22:23
mean she's an adult. I I I think this is pretty simple. I don't think there's much more to this than it's a marketplace and she has the rights along
00:22:30
with anybody else to buy them. Why is it good to have them? This is what I was sort of interested in. Well, she gets
00:22:36
control. So, for example, we wanted when we were doing the intro song, which we
00:22:42
spent six months trying to figure out for pivot, right? It was just too serious. It wasn't right. So, we wanted a new one and I wanted uh I thought, you
00:22:50
know, we got to pay the money and we'd be worth it. We should get Tracy Chapman's Revolution. We both love Tracy
00:22:56
Chapman. We thought it was a great song. And somebody immediately said, "No, Tracy Chapman doesn't license her songs
00:23:02
because she's worried uh she's worried that some car company's going to license toilet paper." So, this is what she
00:23:08
gets. She doesn't have a toilet paper company or a suppository using Shake It Off. I mean, so she gets control. Good.
00:23:16
Good idea. Anybody anybody who has and this is really going to go crazy in AI
00:23:24
when all of a sudden, you know, when all of a sudden uh you know, Lincoln starts giving people advice because whoever
00:23:30
owns his image and likeness licenses licenses to AI or if if Warren Buffett
00:23:36
doesn't make serious doesn't doesn't have serious IP protection that his heirs will agree to his heirs in three
00:23:43
generations. some kid who's got a cocaine habit and has squandered all of his inheritance says, "Well, I'm going to start an investment app using Warren
00:23:50
Buffett." Yeah. His likeness and his image. So, the advantage to her is that she has other considerations than just
00:23:57
purely monetizing every ounce and every dollar out of her songs. Yeah. It's a smart boat to have on them. It's worth
00:24:03
it to her. It's worth it. It's worth it to her. She can control her legacy. She can decide how it's used and how it's not and how it's not used. Yeah. She's
00:24:09
proves herself to be a very good business person. And at the time it was the standard deal to give away almost
00:24:14
all your rights. And so it is really interesting that a lot of artists are including Ryan Cougler and others are
00:24:20
getting their rights in some fashion. Whatever the the deals are getting very interesting in that regard and the
00:24:25
reasons are very many in her case it is to have to be able to monetize it in the way she wants to monetize it versus some
00:24:33
hedge fund for example. So smart move by Taylor Swift. She owns herself. She's a young woman. She'll be able to uh
00:24:39
benefit from this for many many decades to come, I suspect. And she wants her legacy to be what she wants it to be.
00:24:44
So, good for her. Good for her. Uh good not making one Taylor Swift. Very nice. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
00:24:50
When we come back, Elon leaves Doge with a black eye. A literal one. And a new report on his ketamine use. Scott, we're
00:24:57
back. Elon Musk says the New York Times was lying their ass off. I didn't know they had an ass. In a new report about
00:25:03
his alleged drug use, he posted on X that he tried the prescription ketamine a few years ago and while it helps for
00:25:09
getting out of the quote dark mental holes, he hasn't taken it since, which is not true because he told Don Lemon he
00:25:15
was taking it last year. Uh, the article claims Musk used ketamine often and also took ecstasy and psychedelic mushrooms
00:25:22
in the last year. The Times is standing by its reporting quite strongly, noting the story was based on interviews, private texts, documents, and photos.
00:25:29
The drug use story dropped just as Elon had his big Oval Office farewell, which was weird. Um, where he sported a black
00:25:34
guy he says came from his 5-year-old son. After the sendoff, uh, Trump insisted Elon's not really leaving,
00:25:40
saying Musk will be back and forth since Doge is his baby. Um, talk a little bit first about the the drug use, which I
00:25:47
think everybody it's so clear. There's not What was interesting the the internet was populated with uh videos of
00:25:53
him looking like he was on drugs. like there's not you can't find a video where he's not doing this weird neck eye thing
00:25:59
that he does all the time. Um talk a little bit about the drug use and then then go to the Oval Office press
00:26:05
conference and sort of any takeaways from the whole Doge saga. Uh just so people are clear, Elon's right-hand man,
00:26:11
Steve Davis also left Doge. Um like Elon, he was special government employee
00:26:17
limited. A lot of people are leaving. All the people that came in and took over his Steve Davis's wife is leaving.
00:26:23
Uh they're sort of dropping off. We'll get to the Nassau head in a second, but talk a little bit about the drugs and sort of the legacy of Doge. Well, sure.
00:26:31
But the the key piece of data here is that Taylor Swift has 500 songs about dudes leaving her and one not one single
00:26:38
song about giving a good [ __ ] Just connect the dots, Cara. Connect the dot. I've got a sickness. Cara, I couldn't
00:26:44
help it. I couldn't help it. I didn't hear anything you said. I was thinking about my Taylor. I know you were
00:26:49
waiting. You couldn't hold it in. You can't hold it in. I I didn't hear anything you said. something about Elon Mus. You love talking about Elon Mus.
00:26:55
You put up so many posts about diapers. Just so you know, excessive ketamine causes you to pee too much in your
00:27:01
pants. So, go ahead. We got We got the world's most powerful man, the president, and the world's wealthiest man both wearing diapers. Look, I got I
00:27:08
go to a different place with this. The first thing is I think that there is a mythology and lazy thinking around drugs
00:27:16
and alcohol. And that is between 90 and 94% of people are able to manage their
00:27:22
professional, their personal and their substance lives. That a lot of people do
00:27:27
recreational drugs. A lot of people drink a lot of alcohol and are able to manage all of it really well. As a
00:27:33
matter of fact, speaking but go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. The majority of people can manage it. But that five or 10%
00:27:42
uh it can come off the rails. And not only that, you become very susceptible to moving into that desile if you have
00:27:49
other stressors in your life. And for me, this isn't a story about drug abuse. Uh so I think the guy is coming off the
00:27:55
rails. And I want to be clear here. I'm not in no way am I intimating violence or wish harm against anyone. I think
00:28:02
this guy probably has some of the lowest life expectancy of any public figure right now. Because when you are I've
00:28:09
been involved in two quote unquote interventions. I've had a decent amount of people professionally and personally
00:28:15
who struggled with drugs and alcohol. His, if the New York Times reporting is accurate, which I believe it is, his
00:28:22
ketamine use and his and the other his other drug abuse he's mixing. He mixes a lot. Yeah. Is so out of control. And
00:28:30
then you couple it with something that's even more dangerous and it's the following. What all of the research is
00:28:35
showing is that there's this myth or this trope of the woman who can't find a dude and poor her, her life is awful
00:28:41
because she can't find a guy and have kids, right? And the majority of the research is all leading to one place and
00:28:46
that is relationships in a heteronormative relationship are actually more beneficial and important to the male than to the female. Widows
00:28:54
are happier after the guy dies um than when they were married. Widowers are
00:28:59
much less happy. When men don't have a romantic relationship as a guard rail,
00:29:04
they come off the tracks. They become much more prone to self harm. Much more
00:29:10
uh they reinvest that energy in nationalist content, conspiracy theory,
00:29:16
video games, porn, and I'm not pathologizing all single men here, but a single man is much more vulnerable to
00:29:22
bad things in life than a single woman. A woman often times when she has a a lack of romantic opportunities rechans
00:29:28
that energy into her friend network into professional opportunities. And a lot of what's happening I think in quote
00:29:33
unquote if you call it a mating crisis. Everyone everything's a crisis now is that women as they've economically
00:29:39
become more prosperous have just decided on the whole these heteronormative relationships just aren't a great deal for them. And men really need
00:29:46
relationships. And I think the thing that is really um dangerous in the cautionary tale here
00:29:53
is that I don't think Elon Musk in addition the nitroglycerin here is that
00:29:59
not only does he appear to have out of control drug use but he appears to have absolutely no guardrails in terms of a
00:30:04
close friend network or a monogous romantic relationship. And I think that is that is just an incredibly dangerous
00:30:12
cocktail. And what defines America right now is that we have an individual who is the world's wealthiest man making
00:30:18
decisions that supposedly according to several agencies are going to result in several hundred thousand of the poorest children around the world
00:30:24
dying. But we forgive him even though of this rampant out of control drug abuse
00:30:29
and this personal life that just seems chaotic because he has so much money. Look, it's well known that he takes
00:30:35
drugs. I mean, there's not anyone that you people come up to me and tell tell me about a party in Los Angeles, whether
00:30:42
it's Los Angeles, it's just this this is 100% accurate reporting by the New York
00:30:47
Times. Like you said, a lot of people can be functional and do it at the same time, but there are so many warning
00:30:53
signs here. But one of the ones that troubled me, there was a line deep in the story where it's like he was given one of the things that he that the Trump
00:31:00
people rail against is that people who are getting Medicaid have drug testing or this and that. They have all these
00:31:05
rules for people. He was warned in advance. That to me jumped out when the drug tests were coming. That was like,
00:31:13
are you kidding me? Like he doesn't have to follow the same rules. And he gets warned. Who was warning him in advance?
00:31:19
I was like, this is a whole story by itself. Who is warning him in advance? It was a single line in the piece. And I
00:31:24
was like, of course he was warned in advance um so that he could get clean or however he handles that. And that to me
00:31:30
was disturbing. It just sort of was like watching in real time someone who is headed to a very bad place. I've always
00:31:37
thought that. Um and it and and at the same time hurting people as he hurdles
00:31:42
through this very strange life of his and without a caring. So give me your take on Doge because I think it was in
00:31:49
it's been incredibly damaging. I don't think there's been good things about it at all. In fact, it's sullied the idea
00:31:55
of government efficiency in many ways. I think in some ways it's it's essentially
00:32:01
the government's come out with a much cleaner bill of health around this [ __ ] notion of wise fraud and abuse. They just weren't able to find it as
00:32:07
easily that as they'd hoped. Some people some people are reporting that it's actually the real loss is the effective
00:32:12
or sorry the effect of savings are like 7 to9 billion which isn't even the amount of the subsidies and where I
00:32:18
would go is I mean I always come to back to this statement look what money's done to us.
00:32:23
If you if car if you had a sibling, if you had a brother who was exceptionally talented, right, and say he was worth he
00:32:31
was just very good at business and say he was worth 400 million, which means he was remarkably successful, but it was
00:32:38
clear he was radically addicted to ketamine. At a parent teachers conference, he was giving Nazi salutes.
00:32:44
He was fathering multiple children with multiple women who were all suing him or many of them were suing him for sole
00:32:49
custody of that child because he hadn't seen that child. He had declared war on one of the children publicly and he was
00:32:56
clearly like and then he shows up with a black eye. I mean, wouldn't you get
00:33:01
anyone who cares about this guy to to do an intervention? But here's the
00:33:07
thing. But here's the thing. If you're worth 400 billion on 400 million, the
00:33:12
world the world admires you and thinks that you're think it's not drug abuse. It's you're provocative and you're
00:33:18
authentic and you're different. I just come back to the same place. The idolatry of money that we have decided
00:33:24
that money somehow conflates with character and leadership. If he was
00:33:29
worth $400 million, no one would put up with this [ __ ] They'd be like, "Jesus Christ, this guy is is an addict. We're
00:33:36
not listening to this guy around. We They an accounting firm, a mid-level accounting firm wouldn't let him be a a
00:33:43
a partner in their firm if they saw evidence of this." Yeah. Well, money takes care of a lot of things. What's
00:33:49
interesting is influence over Trump may be fading. You know, Trump is sort of not a thrill with people with substance
00:33:55
abuse problems. He was cruel to his own brother. Um it may be fading more quickly than expected. The White House
00:34:00
has withdrawn the nomination of Elon's billionaire pal Jared Isaacman to lead Nassau just days before the expected
00:34:06
Senate confirmation. Trump announced the decision Saturday night, citing a thorough review of prior associations as
00:34:12
if they didn't know he gave to Democrats. Apparently Isacson had donated to both Republicans and
00:34:17
Democrats, which is totally normal to do. I I'm if you're a business person, that's what you do. But according to New
00:34:22
York Times, Trump was aware that Isaacman had made those donations before nominating them. He's just using it. The pulling back is a setback for uh for
00:34:30
Musk because this was his pal. Having Isaacman who's flown two private missions with SpaceX at the helm of NASA
00:34:36
would likely been a major asset in securing contracts and missions. Um, talk is there what did you think of
00:34:44
this? This was really interesting and they're sort of purging all the all the Musk people. It looks like um in terms
00:34:51
of perks. I think if he hands it may be a pressure to hand over that $100 million check he promise. Maybe I don't
00:34:57
know maybe he's just flexing his muscles and um but it seems like a direct hit at
00:35:02
Elon to do this right as and that whole Oval Office thing has such a performative quality. The key was so
00:35:08
this is what I became actual felt sorry for Musk is Trump handed him a shitty little key to the White House and I
00:35:14
thought oh my god that is so awkward and embarrassing like here thank you for your work here's a key to in a box in a
00:35:21
in a cheat box with a shitty key that to me was like ouch but what do you think about the the the political power here?
00:35:29
Well, Don, the president has incredible political instincts. He sees things that other people don't see and goes places
00:35:35
no one else would go. And it ends up not only being less damaging than we thought, but we hate to admit it that
00:35:42
even despite what the media's reaction to it, it appears to sometimes resonate with the larger
00:35:47
population. And he's I think he's decided that uh his the half-life of of
00:35:55
Musk's usefulness to him is over. and he absolutely doesn't want to piss him off. He's got an incredibly powerful
00:36:02
platform. He would still, you know, he does not want him spending a lot of money. I mean, the thing about Musk and
00:36:08
drug addicts in general is they generally aren't that reliable or or consistent. And so, he I think I think
00:36:15
Trump is a bit afraid of Musk and goes, "This guy could turn on me." So, I think he's trying to thread this needle of like getting him out of the White House.
00:36:21
supposedly him and Ben basically almost came to blows and it was creating real
00:36:26
chaos in the West Wing. So he wants to get him out, move him aside and at the
00:36:32
same time stay on good terms with him. It's like this is essentially what every manager's goal is. What Trump is trying
00:36:38
to do is what every good manager's goal is and that is the following and this is my approach to firing and that is you
00:36:46
will constantly managers whenever I ask about someone that we're worried about people will constantly make excuses for
00:36:51
them. Oh, we're reassign we're doing this we're redefining the job role or we and I'm like and and this is going to
00:36:57
sound terrible. I'm like fire them. Um I've found nine times out of 10 when someone's not working the people making
00:37:04
excuses and recasting that it's the organization's fault. I'm like, okay, the organization's not changing and the
00:37:10
the sooner we can move, the more generous we can be. I think you are rapacious and capitalist when it comes
00:37:15
to these decisions, but then you're as generous as possible. You sit them down and you say, "Listen, it's not working
00:37:21
here. We can go into why, but what we're going to do is we're going to let you stay as long as you need to so you don't lose your health insurance. You don't
00:37:27
have to worry about money in the short term. We're going to help you find another job." And I think that's the
00:37:33
objective here. I think he is trying. Why do Isaac men Why do that the same weekend? It was really interesting. I
00:37:39
mean, I guess the vote was coming up, but still I think something came out. Wasn't there something about his P? They I think they basically said this is not
00:37:46
the guy or there there's someone who knows there's probably another donor who's given more money or something. Who knows? Yeah, but why do that? Why such a
00:37:53
public in the place that Elon loves? I mean, I just felt it was a weird You felt it was a shot across the bottom. I
00:37:59
did. I was like, why bother? like because he could still control NASA
00:38:05
contracts without with him there, right? If they really didn't want Elon to get a special favors. Um, but they'd have to
00:38:13
watch it, I guess. I don't know. It was interesting. Um, I think he'd probably be going away for a little while now.
00:38:18
Um, and maybe getting that much the help he desperately needs, obviously. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
00:38:25
We come back, Trump goes back to the taco playbook with his latest tariffs. Scott, we're back. President Trump is
00:38:31
doubling tariffs on steel and aluminum from 25% to 50. President moves says will boost US manufacturing. The EU is
00:38:38
already saying they're prepared to retaliate. Canada is not too happy either. The timing of this tariff announcement uh coincides with what
00:38:44
Trump is calling a blockbuster agreement between US Steel and Japan's Nippon Steel. Details of the deal are somewhat
00:38:50
murky, though Trump is claiming US steel will remain controlled by the US. Senator David McCormack also said the US
00:38:56
government will get a golden share in this deal, giving the administration US uh board member approval among other key
00:39:02
decisions. This has been rattling about for a while. I think has almost nothing to do with this. And while Trump has
00:39:07
been facing legal roadblocks on his tariffs, commerce secretary Howard Lutton explained on Fox over the weekend
00:39:12
that tariffs are here to stay. They've been signaling that to all the reporters. Just so you know, tariffs are
00:39:18
not going away. He has so many other authorities that even in the weird and
00:39:23
unusual circumstance where this was taken away, we just bring on another or another or another. Congress has given
00:39:30
this authority to the president and he's going to use it. Um so he's talking about the legal the push back on legal
00:39:37
stuff that he couldn't do some tariffs. There's certain ways he can get around it and this and that, but um he really is just doubling down on um these
00:39:45
tariffs. And you know, it's fine for the US steel thing. they get a golden share. Sure, why not? Um, talk a little bit
00:39:53
about this because and then we'll talk a little bit about China. He's now again accusing Beijing of of totally violating
00:40:00
the trade agreement that uh paused retaliatory tariffs. So, it looks like he's jinning things up and he's done
00:40:05
with being Mr. Nice Guy there. Um, uh, talk first about this the steel and then
00:40:11
we'll get to China. I think a lot of people have heard of sort of the taco trade, but they don't really understand
00:40:16
it. Trump always chickens out for people to get that. But what what it actually means is the following is that the stock
00:40:22
market will move. So he announces tariffs on Apple products and Apple goes
00:40:27
down 3 to 5%. It takes a little bit of a hit. He he announces huge huge tariffs
00:40:33
on China 135% and shipping companies that are dependent upon uh Chinese um
00:40:40
exports into the Port of Long Beach, they lose 30 or 40% of their value overnight. EU tariffs, EU stock market
00:40:46
announcement, EU stock market declines. The incredibly consistent, massively profitable trade has been to assume that
00:40:54
this is all bluster and these tariffs will not hold and the companies that took an initial dive will recover. And
00:41:01
it has been one of the most consistent profitable trades that Trump owe his chickens out that his threats are
00:41:07
bluster and that he's bluffing and the companies that take a short-term hit, you go long those companies and you make
00:41:13
a [ __ ] ton of money. He has announced or reduced tariffs 50 times and so far as
00:41:20
far as I can tell we're going to get a reduction in the price of Austin Martin
00:41:25
engines from Britain. I mean there's been absolutely almost no meaningful deal struck here. Now my belief is it's
00:41:33
the following. I used to think that he was an idiot econom in terms of basic understanding of economics and was
00:41:39
hoping through bluster and by saber rattling to bring different economies to
00:41:44
the table thinking that that was going to benefit Americans. I no longer believe that. I believe he is purposely
00:41:50
creating massive volatility such that him and his insiders can make billions of dollars in market manipulation and
00:41:55
insider trading and that in a year the tariffs are going to look remarkably similar to the way they did before the
00:42:01
Trump administration. When Attorney General Bondi is trading and selling
00:42:07
Trump media shares the morning he announces these incredible tariffs taking the markets down, it means that
00:42:14
all rules and feel and fear around insider trade and criminality have gone away. And I think you are going I think
00:42:21
you are seeing that he has basically said, "All right, saying to his local cronies, his his PE and hedge fund guys
00:42:29
who tuck him in at night, I'm thinking about massively increasing steel tariffs tomorrow, which by the way took
00:42:35
Cleveland Cliffs, New Core Steel Dynamics, uh, up 27, 11, and 5.9%
00:42:43
because essentially local domestic steel manufacturers are going to get to charge
00:42:48
unearned prices because there's such massive tariffs on steel coming in. What
00:42:54
does that mean? That means the prices of homes and cars are going to go up. Now, if you believe the taco trade, what you
00:43:00
would do is you would now go short those companies believing he's not going to be able to implement those tariffs against
00:43:06
steel manufacturers. So, I'm now beginning to believe that given that the courts or
00:43:11
the I forget it was called the EA is basically saying this is not a wartime.
00:43:16
You do not have license to impose these tariffs. There can only be done in exceptional measures during times of
00:43:22
terrorism or cyber attacks. I think George W. Bush invoked them during 911. They said this does not meet that test
00:43:28
for what you are trying to basically like a an exceptional wartime act. The trade would be to go the other way. But
00:43:34
I'm now of the mind of these people are not dumb. What they're doing is creating massive volatility that them and their
00:43:40
cronies and their loyalists are making tens of billions of dollars off. It's all market manipulation and insider
00:43:46
trading. Yeah, I think you're you've been talking about this for a couple weeks now. Um, one of the things that he's really focusing on, as I said, was
00:43:53
China. He didn't uh give specifics about the problems with China, that they were violating these things, but US trade rep
00:44:00
Jameson Greer said China has been slow rolling compliance, particularly on exports of rare earth materials, which
00:44:05
we need desperately. China is hitting back, accusing the US of undermining the recent agreement with a so-called
00:44:10
discriminatory measures like AI chip export controls and also criticizing the plan to revoke student visas, which
00:44:16
Trump has been doing, specifically targeting Chinese students in America, which there are many. Despite all the
00:44:22
tough talk from both sides, Trump says he's sure he'll chat with Chinese President Xi to work things out. I mean,
00:44:28
one of the things is it even more taco behavior here because this is the key relationship presumably, but the Wall
00:44:33
Street Journal also had a piece that was really interesting about all these attempts to hobble China particularly when it comes to tech aren't working and
00:44:39
a lot of ways are backfiring with scarcity brings innovation and many people feel and that China's doing just
00:44:45
fine um in the in the in these these agreements. So, what is China different
00:44:50
from your perspective what he's doing here? There's there's the tariffs and then there's and then there's the war on
00:44:56
these elite institutions. And I think the tariffs I mean the tariffs will do
00:45:04
structural damage and that is everyone's trying to reroute their supply chain around America. They're like we we can't handle this toxic uncertainty. The the
00:45:11
fear around that this nonsense with Harvard by the way both Xiinping and his rival who disagreed on a lot had one
00:45:18
thing in common. They sent their kids to Harvard. And what's just so insane and so cynical about this move is they're
00:45:24
doing it under the banner of anti-semitism. But the funding they're trying to cut is around medical research or scientific research of which we get
00:45:31
huge dividends and which Harvard is outstanding at. Now having said that I I do believe personally
00:45:38
um I'm I'm apologized about I'm sorry you asked about China. I think that he is looking for some sort of big
00:45:44
beautiful deal and that she is going to call his bluff. I think they have totally overplayed their hand and the
00:45:50
the the the kid or the person torn between two lovers right now is Tim
00:45:56
Cook. And that is Tim has nowhere to go. Tim, it would be easier. It was easier
00:46:02
to get to splitting the atom during World War II than it would be for us to return all manufacturing of the iPhone
00:46:09
to the US right now. It's just an impossibility. And China is restricting the granting of visas to Chinese people
00:46:16
in China who Apple is trying to transition to India such that they can assemble one screw and say made in made
00:46:24
in India. It's all tariff gaming right now. People I mean it it's just so the
00:46:30
Tim Cook is literally caught between these two people and quite frankly the more consistent player right now and the easier player to deal with is she. He
00:46:37
doesn't know what Trump's going to do. But if you look at what's happened to Apple stock, people sort of don't
00:46:42
believe it's really going to affect them. They sort of believe that that supply chain that has taken that has
00:46:48
absorbed 25 million people and $50 billion a year and five super centers around China that it's going to survive
00:46:55
that Trump will eventually back down or go away or go away. That's or forget
00:47:01
about it or move on to something else. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know what's interesting is that she we have to move
00:47:06
on, but um I feel like China has got his number more than anybody else in terms
00:47:11
of manipulating him. I mean, obviously I think Putin does. He's he's so easily manipulated because he's so obvious and
00:47:18
the idea that he's playing 3G chess is just ridiculous. I think we're going to, as you said, we're going to end up in exactly the same place and we are not
00:47:25
going to realize the threat that China does. um our best move is to get along with China, right, in terms of
00:47:32
protecting ourselves as a country um and to figure out ways that we can protect ourselves from all kinds of things that
00:47:39
they could do. But this way they just to me they are in the pole position and wi
00:47:44
with him. And you're right, everyone's just waiting for him to stop talking and move on. Um and his mouthpiece Howard
00:47:51
Lutnik seems like an idiot. You know, no one believes them because they're so capriccious. No one believes anything
00:47:57
that What you see is every time they make a new announcement about a tariff, there's there's even less volatility.
00:48:02
The market is absorbing these threats and saying they're not credible. What did he just say? Yeah, he's making
00:48:07
himself less credible. That's absolutely what's happening here. He's not a very good negotiator as it turns out. Um
00:48:13
which which you would have known if you followed his business uh dealings over the many decades. All right, Scott. Uh
00:48:18
one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Why don't you go
00:48:25
first? Well, my fail two images were summarized here. My fail was seeing kids, teenage boys in zip ties uh uh
00:48:35
detained by ICE. It's just like do you realize how much damage that does to
00:48:41
America the cocktail the peanut butter and chocolate that has created the strongest the strongest nation in
00:48:47
history and most people don't know an most people around the world don't know Americans don't come to America but
00:48:52
they're willing to work with us. They're they're they think twice before they try to damage us or steal from us because
00:48:59
they know our memory is long and our reach is far. And also that coupled with
00:49:04
a general sense that at the end of the day they're the good guys. And when an image is shot around the world of our
00:49:10
own our own security agencies putting children in zip ties, it just does so
00:49:17
much damage to our reputation as the good guys. It basically we're no longer
00:49:22
the good guys. As evidenced by the scariest piece of data I've seen this year, other than 51% of men 18 to 24
00:49:28
have never asked a woman out in person. The second scariest piece of data is that now globally more people think
00:49:34
China is a force of good in the world than the US. And that that deep that that makes our deep pools of capital
00:49:41
more shallow. People don't want to invest in us. People are less likely to inform when they think there's a
00:49:46
terrorist cell trying to infiltrate our borders. It makes their uh their scientists less likely to come here.
00:49:51
makes them much less likely to want to buy our products over Chinese products. That is my fail. That image and I won't
00:49:57
go into the semantics of it. I don't know the specifics, but there's just some basics here. Okay. Memo memo to all
00:50:05
ICE employees. Never ever have a minor in
00:50:11
zip ties or in handcuffs. Ever. Ever. If if they pose a risk to you, you have to
00:50:18
incur that risk. if you know if they become violent, fine, but we never we
00:50:23
never put minors in zip ties or or any any other sort of um um restraining
00:50:30
restraining device. Anyways, that's my loss. And I was equally excited by the
00:50:35
image in the video of uh 40 strategic bombers uh different Russian airfields
00:50:41
being blown up. I mean, you cannot imagine. This is arguably the most
00:50:48
precise, genius, and wellthoughtout, and bold military operation since the IDF's
00:50:54
operation against Hezbollah, the Pedro operation. They managed to smuggle in
00:51:01
trucks to different areas a thousand miles inside Russian
00:51:07
territory, figure out a way at the exact right moment with with soft assets on the ground, i.e. Ukrainian spies on the
00:51:14
ground to geollocate these strategic bombers. And then these trucks, their
00:51:19
roofs would collapse or uh retract and they would launch these drones. And
00:51:26
these drones took out 40 long-term strategic bombers precisely that have been bombing Ukrainian cities. And by
00:51:33
the time I knew what was going on, the soft the the agents and the um launch
00:51:40
vehicles and the trucks had returned to safety or been abandoned. This was 18
00:51:45
months in the planning. It was incredibly strategic, brave. I mean,
00:51:52
this nothing creates momentum and respect like like this type of bravery
00:51:59
and this type of thoughtful uh action. I was just so I was so
00:52:04
excited to see this. I think it puts new wind in the sales and morale of not only people within Ukraine fighting this
00:52:10
fight on behalf of all of us, but it also makes it more we're more inclined in the West to support Ukraine because we see when we put our dollars and our
00:52:17
support to work, these people are not [ __ ] around. They are very good at what they do. And this will go down.
00:52:23
This will go down in history as one of the great brave military operations. And you're going to see in about 18 months
00:52:30
two or three different dramas on Netflix and on Hulu about this operation.
00:52:35
Anyways, the Ukrainian special operation to take out uh 40 long range strategic
00:52:42
bombers who were shelling and bombing um Ukrainian cities. That's my that's my win. I got to say a remarkable country.
00:52:49
You know, the minute this is over, that is going to be the most important technological country. I think uh you
00:52:55
know we think talk about certain countries like Israel and others this it already was but going forward once they
00:53:01
get out of this mess the rebuilding of Ukraine should be really interesting especially for technology I think it's
00:53:07
going to be one of those great countries and rebound in 10 years will be sort of like what like that kind of thing I just
00:53:14
feel like Ukraine is so impressive in terms of pushing pushing people out of
00:53:19
their country trying to as difficult as it is um you're right I was sort gobsmack that they were able to do that
00:53:25
and relatively easily it looks like which tells you everything you need to know about Putin's Russia. Um that's a
00:53:31
good one. Um my fail continues to be um is this idea that that um you know
00:53:38
the damage Elon Musk has caused through Doge and his the damage of the coarsening is really has to stop. I
00:53:46
think it's really the fact that everyone was sitting around acting like this guy was great at the Oval Office when he
00:53:52
clearly is in distress. And I listen, I have no sympathy for Elon Musk, but it's sad to look at. It's sad to watch
00:53:59
someone of so much possibility become such a small-minded, angry uh victim.
00:54:05
All the interviews were depressing. Every single interview was depressing. Um, you know, people wrote a lot about,
00:54:11
you know, money doesn't buy happiness and that seems to be the case here. Um, but the fact that we excuse it and just
00:54:17
don't call it out and say, "Listen," and and and to be attacked, the New York Times, I thought, did a great job in
00:54:23
that story, uh, and has kept at it. That's a hard story to say yes to, I suspect. Um,
00:54:29
because it it over it probably he could easily, you know, sue them or whatever else with a lot of nonsense. But it's a
00:54:37
it just makes you feel like you feel like you know where this is all going and it's it's sad that nobody will
00:54:42
intervene or can intervene really in that regard. Um uh for when um I I
00:54:48
there's a new musical here in San Francisco. I'm hoping to see it this week called Co-founders uh that's
00:54:53
described as Hamilton meets Silicon Valley and Reed Hoffman is the backer. And the show I've been listening to the
00:54:59
soundtrack. It's pretty good. Um the show has a song that feels particularly appropriate. It's called Pivot and it's
00:55:04
not about us, Scott. Let's listen to a short bit of it. YouTube was a dating site with video. Twitter was a podcast
00:55:12
on audio. Flicker was an early MMO. Never ending game way before the photos.
00:55:19
The pivot ain't no. So when you're thinking you can't tell me, just make
00:55:24
your way to the dance floor. You'll get a second chance, but you might have to dance. Turn your feet 90°. Get down and
00:55:31
get up. All right. We've been pivoting for Isn't that good? It's pretty good. That was
00:55:37
good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that should be our new So that's what Reed's been up to. That's what reason he's like trying not to get like attacked by Trump
00:55:43
and Musk and doing that. I love that readoff then. He's always I was like I wrote him like what what it was like
00:55:50
good for you. Good for you read off doing that. I kind of liked it. Um it's here in San Francisco until July so
00:55:57
should go see it. I'm excited to see it. I I love the theater. It makes me happy whenever I go. Anyway, we want to hear
00:56:03
from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for
00:56:09
the show or call 85551 pivot. And elsewhere in the Cara and Scott universe this week with this week on On with Cara
00:56:16
Swisser. I talked to editor-inchief of The Atlantic, Jeff Goldberg, Mr. Signalgate. Let's listen to a clip.
00:56:22
deeply corrupt governments and societies don't work very well and sometimes they
00:56:28
bring themselves to a crisis point at which point the people say enough and something good happens out of that. So,
00:56:36
I mean, I think that's ultimately where we're heading. Unless unless the
00:56:41
American people who are supplied with cheap calories, abundant video
00:56:47
entertainment, and actual drugs just have given up on the idea of standing up
00:56:52
for traditional American principles. I mean, we have to consider that as long as you feed people enough food and give
00:56:59
them enough diversion. I mean, it sounds very Roman because it is bread and circuses. Yeah, bread and circuses. Um,
00:57:05
maybe it won't. He's really terrific. What a thoughtful person leading a very important publication right now. He's made it important through his
00:57:11
leadership. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and make sure you like and subscribe to our
00:57:16
YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Larara Neon, Zoe Marcus,
00:57:23
Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie Andrew entry this episode. Thanks also to Drew Bros. Mao and Dan Shalon. The
00:57:28
Shock Kas Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks
00:57:34
for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at
00:57:40
nymag.com/pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Cara, have a great rest of the week.
00:57:46
[Music]
