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Hi, I'm Rachel Kip from Knowledge at
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Wharton. We're here today with Michael
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F. Lewis, author of Social Media
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Leadership: How to Get Off the Bench and
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Into the Game. Also with us are Steve
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Enan, president and chief intelligence
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officer of Social Strategy 1, and
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Wharton, marketing professor, Eric
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Bradlo. So Mike, in the beginning of
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your book, you tell an interesting story
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about how you realized the importance of
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social media and sort of your journey
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from the pew to the pulpit as it were.
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Could you kind of share that story with
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our audience? Sure. We were uh in part
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of our legacy business at IL sort of
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caught off guard by just how much uh
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misinformation there was on the internet
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and just some frustration among endusers
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because of that uh poor information. So,
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we took a very proactive approach,
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learned a lot about how to listen and
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monitor what was going on, how to deal
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with that directly. I got our team
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together and made sure that we were all
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uh aware that we wanted to be as
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proactive as possible to know that we
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were trying to reach out to people that
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they could reach out to us. And that was
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a very valuable lesson and and one that
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uh you I think we turned some scars into
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stars uh as a result of that. But
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concurrent with that, I was actually
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here at a Wharton development function
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and really got uh presented in a in a
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great way the development and evolution
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that was taking place in social media
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and how mainstream it was becoming. And
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as a result of that, we've launched a
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couple of businesses. We've launched
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offer.com, which is a community of uh
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small business owners, office
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professionals. It's now uh four years
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old and grown to about 350,000 members.
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And we started a a a separate social
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strategy one uh division and now soon to
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be a separate company uh from our base
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of legacy businesses and uh that's where
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we are engaging with corporations uh
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helping them develop uh social strategy
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plans based on what their current status
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is in terms of engagement on the
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internet and what they want to do to
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grow their business. and uh we're now
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even moving into a small business
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version of that. So, it's been quite an
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active four years as a result of what we
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experienced on our own and what I was
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exposed to here. Great. Now, Eric, I
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understand that you actually suggested
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that Mike write this book. Could you
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talk to us a little bit about how
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typical is his experience among CEOs? I
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mean, are CEOs realizing the strategic
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significance of their companies having a
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social media strategy and how are they
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reacting to that? Yeah, I think there's
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really two parts to it. I think the
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first part is most people misinterpret
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what social media is about. They use it
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as a talking vehicle. Social media is a
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listening vehicle. It's both, but most
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people don't understand that the real
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power is to be able to listen to the
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customer in a real time and effective
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way. And I think Mike is unique in the
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following sense. You know, everyone
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says, well, of course there are tools
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out there for everyone to do social
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media listening. Actually, there really
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aren't. There are. If you're a big
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business, you can hire a bizaarre voice
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or someone else to build a platform for
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you. But what do you do if you're a
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restaurant owner? If you have two or
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three different, you know, let's say
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outlets for your company, then there
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really aren't the tools necessary. So, I
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think the the space that Mike's been
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working in, I think the space that his
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book answers is the next great frontier,
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which is really social media listening
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and social media for small businesses
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and entrepreneurs. and they know they
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need to get in the game, but to be
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honest with you, they don't know how.
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And it's only through that practical
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experience that Mike's book brings that
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we'll be able to do that. And so, the
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reason it's also near and dear to my
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heart is I spent six years here at
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Wharton, uh, working with the Wharton
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Small Business Development Center. And
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small businesses say this over and over
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again. They want to listen to their
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customers. They don't know how to do it,
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and they don't know what to do as a
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result of the data they're getting back.
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So I think Mike's book and his
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experience is extremely unique in that
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way and will be valuable for a lot of
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different businesses. Now Steve, um to
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follow up on that a little bit, I mean
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the the social media landscape is
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evolving I would even say almost daily
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it seems like. I mean for example
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Facebook had some 200 million users in
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2009 and this year now they're at more
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than 650 million. And it obviously it's
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more than just Facebook. I mean there's
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Groupon, there's Foursquare, there's
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Twitter, and there's really a bunch of
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other sites that have now been adding
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this social media aspect. I mean, how
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would you say that the social media
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landscape has evolved? I mean, can you
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kind of talk about that, especially in
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business terms? Well, you're absolutely
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right about the scope and scale of that,
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and it's it's sort of mind-blowing when
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you think about that on a global level,
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but there are also thousands of
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companies that never hit the the
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newspapers or the media fronts that are
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affecting businesses in different ways,
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too. And they're connecting each other
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together. They're allowing greater
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collaboration. They're allowing and
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developing new business models. And
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they're allowing a lot of and fostering
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a lot of creativity. And that creativity
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is going to affect traditional business
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models. Uh so when we think about social
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media, we have to think about it in its
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entirety. And we have to think about the
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fact there are players there that that
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feed off of of Facebook certainly, but
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go in many many different directions.
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All of them in some way will affect
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every business on the planet in the very
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very near future. And I think that's a
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warning flag we should all be cognizant
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of, especially at the leadership level.
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And that's what Mike book Mike's book
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does so well is that you know, here are
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the ways it can affect you. Here are the
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ways that you can prepare to be
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effective in using social media,
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understanding social media. The first
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step is obviously listening, knowing
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what that landscape is like, and knowing
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how you play or your business plays in
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that landscape. I think Rachel to bring
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it down to a nutshell. It's thousands
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and thousands of channels, thousands and
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thousands of new entrance that create
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fragmentation, creativity, and
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collaboration on a scale we've never
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before imagined,
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which I would think is both scary and
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lots of opportunity there. It's scary.
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You know, it's scary if if you're not
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aware of it, just like anything else, if
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you understand because it's not a black
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box necessarily. It's just a fastmoving
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target. So if you can demystify social
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media especially at the leadership level
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and you can take that through
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organizational structure uh and prepare
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your organization around that then you
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can leverage the benefits that it brings
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and you don't have to be afraid of it.
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Um it's constantly moving and that's a
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challenge that businesses face now
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because they're not set up to be agile.
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I mean you look at major corporations
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social strategy one works with some
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global corporations and you know they're
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just not built to take advantage of the
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changes at the rate they come. But you
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can be and and to uh Eric's point a
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little bit earlier by listening you have
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a great sense of of where things are
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coming around the road so you're not
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surprised by the next turn. Actually
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Steve said something that I just want to
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just follow up on which I think is
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crucially important is that it's why
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Mike's book is unique. It has to come
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from a CEO. See here's why. Because what
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a lot of companies are doing is they're
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doing a lot of listening but their
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social media strategy is siloed into one
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aspect of their business. And so what
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you really need is the CEO perspective
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because it has to be culturally as Steve
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mentioned. It's not just that every
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business is affected, but every part of
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your business is affected. And so
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listening is wonderful. That's one of
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what I frame as one of those nice to
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know things. But you can spend a lot of
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money and make no money on nice to know
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things. It's integrating social media
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into your business. And that's why
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having someone that's a social media
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expert write a book, those are great.
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But having a CEO write a book about
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social media and about the
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organizational structure and the impact,
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totally different perspective and one
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that's really not out there. And
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actually to bring it back to you, Mike,
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I mean, could you tell me among the
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various social media platforms, which
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ones do you think are the most useful
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useful for CEOs and why? Well, I think
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on an individual basis, uh, LinkedIn
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would be my preference in terms of just
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a tool for, uh, CEOs to use as sort of
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their own tool. Um, I think they've done
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some great things with the platform. I'm
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certainly active on there and it's a
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great way to keep your colleagues and
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associates posted uh as to things that
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that you're doing and and see what
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they're doing uh kind of on a real-time
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basis. But you can't ignore Twitter and
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Facebook. I mean, the impact that these
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platforms have and will have are just
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immense. And um
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the depth of uh information that you can
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get on these platforms is really
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amazing. The kinds of promotion and
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awareness creation that you can do with
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them are very very strong. And again uh
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I think back to the point that we were
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just talking about from a CEO
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perspective, we all were sort of at the
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point uh at least I was a few years ago
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what what about Facebook? this is just
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something that my kids do. And in fact,
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when I did uh get on Facebook a few
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years ago, my kids were like, "What are
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you doing here?" You know, this is sort
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of our thing. But it's certainly changed
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and what they're offering in terms of
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ways to advertise and promote your
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business and create awareness of your
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brand. It is it's just uh something you
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have to look at both with Facebook,
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Twitter, and then LinkedIn as well.
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They're they're the they are going to be
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the the three, you know, places you you
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need to be involved with and and know
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all the aspects of how you can use them
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to to grow your business and and you
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know, improve your brand awareness.
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Now, um I guess that brings my next
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question. Eric, could you talk to us a
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little bit about I mean, how do social
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media a little more about how social
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media transforms the way that companies
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can engage with their customers? I mean
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could you give us some examples of
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companies that have made effective use
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in managing relationship with with with
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customers? I I think the best example I
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can really give is uh with customer
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service. I think what social media has
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allowed companies to do is to listen to
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customers in real time. If you think
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about the big biggest problem companies
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have, what is it? It's customer
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defection and churn. It's the biggest
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problem companies have. You know why?
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because it's spend you spend a huge
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amount of money on acquisition costs and
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many customers don't stay around long
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enough and so the opportunity for social
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media listening is in today's
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environment I think as Mike talked about
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earlier is you give people a platform to
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speak well you better listen then so if
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you give them a platform to speak what's
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important is they're expecting and
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here's the challenge for businesses as
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well they're expecting faster response
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than in previous days you know when my
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mother was had a problem with a company
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she would write a letter let's to seers
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and hope that somebody in the customer
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service division would get back to her
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in her lifetime. Well, those days are
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gone. The minute someone posts
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something, they expect someone to be
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there to read that something and they
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expect a response. So, to me, I think
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the biggest impact of social media is
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the opportunity to address problems as
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Steve mentioned in real time and
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therefore to lessen customer churn
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because that's really at the end of the
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day, you don't make any money when
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someone comes to your business the first
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time. you make money when they come back
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over and over again. And social media
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has the ability to stem churn. If I
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could jump in on that too because we
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know now you look at Anthony Weiner in
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other cases, one tweet can end up on the
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New York Times. So a lot of those
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customer service issues can be
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farreaching if they surface out of a
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singular tweet or a singular post on a
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blog or something like that. That's why
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the listening becomes so important and
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and taking that an overall customer
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service perspective. You can actually
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look and trend and understand if there
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are problems surfacing. Maybe it's a
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regional situation. Maybe it's something
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inside the organizational structure
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again we talk about but but that
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singular tweet can also give you
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indications on on where things are going
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or that post on the blog and that's why
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it becomes so important to connect with
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the customers and hear the voice of the
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customer. Uh, one one other quick thing
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uh there because I I think Eric brings
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up a really important uh aspect of
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social media that customer service is is
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where you really are on the front lines
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and seeing directly what people are
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saying about you now nearly in real
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time. So what a lot of CEOs need to
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remember is these conversations are
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going on with or without you. And my
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view is you need to be having that
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dialogue with customers where they are
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meeting and aggregating and discussing
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your company or your brand or or else
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you're just totally missing the boat.
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Now I mean to get back to what Steve was
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saying about this idea of like one tweet
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can end up in the New York Times. I mean
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how is it for Mike for a CEO? I mean
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when you know you've got people tweeting
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with the organ for the organization on
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behalf of your organization. I mean, you
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give up a certain amount. I mean,
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there's a certain amount of chance there
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that you never know when one tweet could
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end up in the New York Times for either
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very good or very bad or positive or
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negative reasons. I mean, how do you
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deal with kind of that? You've got to
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give up a little bit of control. You've
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got to kind of let the company's
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personality shine through. And that's
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both a great and potentially stress
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stress-causing thing. Well, you're
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right. And it's something where policy
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uh internal corporate policy can only
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take you so far in terms of you know
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giving guidance on how uh employees you
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know message uh either on their uh work
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time or their personal time. So, uh, it
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is happening and I think the the best
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way to deal with that is just to have a
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constant listening program so you're
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aware of anything that could be harmful,
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anything that a customer says that could
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be harmful because again remember in
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this world one one tweet could impact,
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you know, any number of people in even
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into the millions in terms of, you know,
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certain things that that get out get
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viral and and so you you want to be
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responsive and playing along and As I
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said before, the big thing is this is
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going to happen with or without you.
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Make it happen with you. Mike talks in
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chapter 10, I think it is, about
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corporate governance, using social media
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for corporate governance and compliance.
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And Social Strategy One does that for
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many of our clients too. We we monitor
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not as big brother does, but we help
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them uh police the policies. We help
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them get indications or if there if
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there are any malcontents within the
00:14:20
organization or any of those issues that
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might surface that could hit um the
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mainstream media or affect the brand. So
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there's an element of brand reputation
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tied to the democratization that that
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the employees have because they can go
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on social media. But then again, it it
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rolls into a leadership aspect because
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now you you have to you have to be aware
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if you've got 10,000 employees, 10,000
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additional voices, the potential impact
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on your brand. It goes back to
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listening, but it also goes back to
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policy, goes back to corporate
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governance and compliance. And that's
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why social media again is is a seauite
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decision. It's not something that's
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relegated to the marketing department or
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an intern or even you know the sales
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department. It's it's got to be an
00:15:00
organizational aspect. So now I mean
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Eric I mean do you think you could talk
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a little bit about I mean what can
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companies do to do a better job of
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managing their reputation through social
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media? I mean what are some specific
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sort of proactive and reactive steps
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that companies can take to kind of
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manage this whole thing? I mean
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particularly with the idea that Steve
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just pointed to with you know I mean you
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could have I mean every employee in the
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company is theoretically tweeting from
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the seauite on down. Well I think
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there's two aspects and one really
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follow the first one follows up from
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what Steve just said. I think a unique
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opportunity that's out there which a lot
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of companies are not doing is actually
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listening to their employees. A lot of
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people say they have to listen to their
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customers. But what about listening to
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your employees? I think one of the
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things that's a burgeoning area of
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research which is totally underresarched
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is the driver the the impact of employee
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satisfaction on corporate profitability.
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People have studied for years customer
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satisfaction. You hear University of
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Michigan has a customer satisfaction
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index. Well, how about an employee
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satisfaction index? As a matter of fact,
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I would think social media would be a
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wonderful way to listen to one's own
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employees and to actually track that.
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Um, in terms of opportunities for the
00:16:07
company, I think at the end of the day,
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um, it really is, and this is something
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I know Steve has spoken a lot about in
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talks that we've given together, it's
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really the real time aspect of things.
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People really have expectations for
00:16:20
immediate response today. And I think as
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Mike pointed out, the minute you're not
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listening, you have no opportunity for
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real time response. And again, the
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minute you construct a real- time
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platform, people are not are going to
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expect real time listening. And I think
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that's the big change that's happening
00:16:36
today. But employee satisfaction is a
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wonderful opportunity to use social
00:16:41
media. And as Steve said, it's not big
00:16:43
big brother watching you. It's an
00:16:45
opportunity for companies to recognize
00:16:47
that their employees really are the
00:16:49
front line of their business. It's great
00:16:51
in terms of the financial services
00:16:53
industry for M&A and and VC action, too.
00:16:56
If you're investigating a company,
00:16:58
investing in a company, acquiring a
00:16:59
company, selling a company, how those
00:17:01
employees feel about their product,
00:17:03
their work environment, their management
00:17:05
team, how the management team feels
00:17:08
about the employees and the work product
00:17:09
and the group become very very important
00:17:11
data points in that exchange and social
00:17:13
media can be hard quantifiable data in
00:17:17
that particular examination. So yeah, an
00:17:19
extension of the opportunity from an
00:17:20
internal perspective, you have the
00:17:22
opportunity to apply it to different
00:17:24
financial services functions, M&A, VC,
00:17:26
etc. It's a research tool. It's a
00:17:27
research tool. Well, but if I if I
00:17:30
could, I think it's also uh phenomenal
00:17:32
opportunities that many companies are
00:17:34
now discovering where in business
00:17:37
typically it's, you know, profitability
00:17:39
is is usually somewhere around the
00:17:40
margins. And uh as we talk about brands,
00:17:44
traditional media is very limiting in
00:17:46
terms of time and how much message can
00:17:49
be included in print or radio or TV. The
00:17:52
beauty of social media is you can get
00:17:54
more subtle messaging that talks more in
00:17:57
depth about certain things that might be
00:17:59
uh a real strength of your company,
00:18:01
whether it might be in your customer
00:18:03
service area or other places where you
00:18:06
wouldn't necessarily make a a
00:18:08
traditional media message out of that.
00:18:10
So, and and back to Eric's point, I
00:18:12
think a lot of times your employees can
00:18:14
be great in terms of getting that
00:18:17
message out because, you know, one of
00:18:19
the key rules of social media is that,
00:18:21
you know, user generated content is the
00:18:23
is the most valued. Well, if it's a
00:18:25
content provided by your own employees,
00:18:27
the message is they believe in what
00:18:29
they're doing. I should really, you
00:18:31
know, pay attention to to their message
00:18:33
to me as a as a potential customer. Now,
00:18:35
to talk a little more about that, Mike,
00:18:36
I mean, could you talk to me a little? I
00:18:37
mean, if I'm a CEO and I'm trying to
00:18:40
devise a social media strategy for my
00:18:42
company, I mean, what are some steps for
00:18:43
how to go about that? I mean, how do you
00:18:44
take all these different pieces? I mean,
00:18:46
user generated content, what the
00:18:48
employees are saying, what the customers
00:18:50
are saying, trying to get at all these
00:18:52
different little niches, but also get it
00:18:54
sort of the broader message. I mean,
00:18:55
what do you recommend CEOs who are
00:18:57
interested in doing this within the
00:18:59
organization? I mean, what should they
00:19:00
do? How should they start? Well, I I
00:19:02
think the best thing going back to what
00:19:03
Eric mentioned is start listening to
00:19:06
your employees.
00:19:07
find out how they uh participate in
00:19:10
social media on their own. Solicit their
00:19:12
advice and input as to how we could take
00:19:15
our business and grow it uh using you
00:19:18
know all the the various tools and and
00:19:20
platforms and applications that are
00:19:22
available in social media. And then I
00:19:24
think it has to be in my opinion a
00:19:27
top-down sort of decision and commitment
00:19:31
because uh you know it it can't be sort
00:19:35
of gratuitous. It has to be genuine. It
00:19:37
has to be real. And so, anything you you
00:19:40
undertake to manage your brand, listen
00:19:41
to what consumers are saying, monitoring
00:19:44
uh all that's going on on the internet,
00:19:48
be committed to do that. Don't just do a
00:19:50
little bit and then give up on it. And
00:19:52
then beyond that, take all that
00:19:54
information, solicit help and advice
00:19:56
from people in your company, outside
00:19:58
your company, and say, "Let me turn some
00:20:01
of what I'm learning there into ways
00:20:03
that I can now grow my business." We we
00:20:05
find in listening and monitoring for for
00:20:07
some of our clients that there are
00:20:09
applications that their products are
00:20:12
fulfilling uh within users that they're
00:20:15
not even aware of and it's a business
00:20:17
opportunity and a way to expand the
00:20:19
applications of their products and
00:20:20
services. Now Eric um met I mean one of
00:20:24
the things that's critical to any of
00:20:25
social media initiative is measurement
00:20:26
which is something that you guys talk
00:20:28
about a lot at the Wharton Consumer
00:20:29
Analytics Initiative. Could you tell me
00:20:31
I mean could you help me understand the
00:20:32
role of metrics and analytics in the way
00:20:34
that companies use social media? I mean
00:20:36
what research has Wharton done in this
00:20:38
area and can you talk about I mean some
00:20:40
of the most important lessons of how
00:20:41
companies can kind of take all this data
00:20:43
that social media is creating and
00:20:44
actually harness it and really use it in
00:20:46
a productive way. It's a good question.
00:20:48
I mean I think as you know uh three and
00:20:50
a half years ago we started as you know
00:20:51
as the Wharton Interactive Media
00:20:52
Initiative under Steve's leadership and
00:20:55
I think we've had themed research cycles
00:20:57
every year. First year it was on social
00:20:59
networks. the year after it was on user
00:21:01
generated content and I think it starts
00:21:03
with what Mike said first of all and I
00:21:05
think Steve mentioned it earlier it can
00:21:07
be quantified let's start with the
00:21:09
beginning let's start that as the
00:21:10
fundamental beginning um people have
00:21:12
there's been great advances in natural
00:21:14
language processing today social
00:21:16
strategy one being one example of a
00:21:18
company doing work in that area you can
00:21:20
quantify what people are saying you can
00:21:22
track it and the key part is here's the
00:21:25
hardest part it's not listening anymore
00:21:27
that's the hardest part and this is what
00:21:29
we do at the customer analytics
00:21:30
initiative. The hardest part is tying
00:21:33
that and tracking it to actual
00:21:35
purchasing, web browsing, etc. It's the
00:21:37
linking of social media to actual
00:21:40
purchase behavior or the behavior that
00:21:42
makes the firm the profits. That's the
00:21:45
hardest thing to do today because number
00:21:47
one, um, you know, tracking people with
00:21:48
cookies, not a very effective way to
00:21:50
track people. You could say registered
00:21:52
users, well, that's one way to track
00:21:54
people. I think what you're going to
00:21:55
see, and I've always said this,
00:21:57
measurement comes first.
00:21:59
profitability comes second. So now we
00:22:01
have the ability to measure what people
00:22:03
are saying. The next phase, I think the
00:22:06
next big phase you're going to see is
00:22:08
the linking of social media measurement
00:22:10
to individual level behavior and
00:22:13
understanding. So imagine, you know,
00:22:15
here's an example. Someone says, well,
00:22:17
someone says in their customer service,
00:22:18
I'm having a problem. Well, do you get
00:22:20
back to them immediately? Well, you say,
00:22:22
well, of course you do. Well, last time
00:22:24
I checked, it's more expensive to get
00:22:26
back to somebody immediately than it is
00:22:27
a day, two days, a week, etc. Well, what
00:22:30
empirical evidence can you get that
00:22:31
suggests how quickly you should get back
00:22:33
to someone? Well, if you tie your social
00:22:36
media listening to your response time
00:22:38
data to your actual purchase history
00:22:40
data, you can start to empirically
00:22:42
answer questions like this. And so, I
00:22:44
think that's the next wave of what's
00:22:46
coming on. And I think when social
00:22:48
strategy one and other companies are end
00:22:50
up getting linked with the commerce data
00:22:53
that firms are doing then you have a
00:22:55
powerful tool where ROI can be measured.
00:22:58
How much value am I getting from this
00:23:00
social media? Or imagine you run an AB
00:23:03
experiment where half the people you get
00:23:04
back to in a day and the other half the
00:23:06
people you get back to in a week. You
00:23:08
don't need an advanced degree from
00:23:09
Wharton. If you say, "Huh, the retention
00:23:11
rate was 14% on this group and 11% on
00:23:14
this group. That's 3%. here's how much
00:23:16
money that's worth. Here's how much it
00:23:17
costs me to get back to people in a day
00:23:19
versus a week. That's how you turn
00:23:22
measurement into action. And I would
00:23:24
think I mean that also means that
00:23:25
companies can't go into this not having
00:23:28
a plan for metrics or not having a plan
00:23:30
for how they're going to maybe build
00:23:31
communities. I mean maybe Steve you
00:23:33
could talk a little bit about that. I
00:23:34
mean what steps are involved in sort of
00:23:36
you have to plan for this upfront so you
00:23:38
can actually measure it and see what
00:23:39
reaction you're going to get. And then
00:23:41
in terms of communities, I mean, one
00:23:42
thing I know any company would say is
00:23:45
that we want our social media to build a
00:23:46
strong community around our brand, but
00:23:47
how do you actually do that? I mean, how
00:23:49
does that actually happen? Yeah. And and
00:23:51
I'll say I'll start with the same thing
00:23:52
that we've said a couple times, which is
00:23:53
listening. But I I think that can't be
00:23:56
um overvalued really. The idea is that
00:23:58
you can set benchmarks through active
00:24:01
listening. You can understand where that
00:24:03
universe is around the conversation. and
00:24:05
you can start to quantify different
00:24:07
themes and threads and aspects and
00:24:10
understand where your community or your
00:24:12
customers are at that particular time.
00:24:15
Now, social media is very dynamic. It
00:24:17
moves often. So, you have to, you know,
00:24:18
continue the process, but you're going
00:24:21
to have to set a benchmark somewhere. uh
00:24:23
Ter's point I mean measuring measurement
00:24:24
comes first know where you are and then
00:24:27
from that aspect you can start to
00:24:29
categorize and catalog different aspects
00:24:31
of of the organization different aspects
00:24:33
of the brand different aspects of
00:24:35
customer service you know however it
00:24:36
falls falls down and then you're going
00:24:39
to understand more about how to
00:24:40
effectively reach and engage and
00:24:42
communicate with your audience and
00:24:44
potential audience customers and
00:24:46
potential customers um understanding
00:24:48
what messages resonate with them
00:24:50
understanding where they're you what
00:24:52
drives purchase intent. Understanding
00:24:55
how customer lifetime value can be sort
00:24:57
of re-imagined using them as engaged
00:25:01
opportunities as well as as just the uh
00:25:03
the transactional opportunities. Um so
00:25:06
it's going to start out with listening
00:25:08
as a baseline and benchmark for
00:25:09
measurement. is going to come. Secondly,
00:25:11
I think uh you know, sort of quantifying
00:25:14
and and deconstructing the themes and
00:25:16
and the the sentiments around your
00:25:19
customer base and and your potential
00:25:20
customer base and then you just start to
00:25:22
fold that into different roles within
00:25:24
the organization. Now, Mike, I mean, I
00:25:26
think one of the things that any company
00:25:28
is probably worried about when getting
00:25:29
into this is some of the regulatory and
00:25:31
compliance issues involved. Could you I
00:25:34
mean, could you talk a little bit about
00:25:35
sort of what are the principal risks
00:25:36
that every CEO should know about and
00:25:38
kind of how to deal with that? Well,
00:25:40
that's a a a big focus and and if we
00:25:43
covered anything sort of in the book
00:25:46
that was maybe a little more fresh in
00:25:49
terms of real discussion, I think it was
00:25:52
the chapter that we had on compliance
00:25:54
and how social media will create new uh
00:25:58
angles to to compliance. Uh for example,
00:26:01
on the internal side, there's no one
00:26:04
single policy that works for every
00:26:06
corporation. PE, you know, businesses
00:26:08
vary by type of business. Uh certainly
00:26:11
in the financial services area, there's
00:26:13
there's a lot of reasons to be far more
00:26:15
restrictive in terms of employee
00:26:17
engagement on social media than maybe
00:26:18
other businesses. So, we talk a lot
00:26:20
about that. But I think the bottom line
00:26:22
is uh consult with your your legal team,
00:26:26
consult with your employees practically
00:26:28
about what you know is is is the right
00:26:31
message to send, but also the right
00:26:33
thing to do for the company. and just
00:26:35
kind of develop a policy. And I think
00:26:37
the the policy should be revisited on a
00:26:40
regular basis because social media is
00:26:42
changing so fast. Now, one other thing
00:26:45
that that I think that that we're going
00:26:47
to see is that uh in terms of financial
00:26:52
reporting, social media uh reports could
00:26:55
be very valuable. They they could
00:26:57
actually, you know, be uh identifying
00:27:00
trends that are taking place that might
00:27:02
influence the performance of the
00:27:04
business. So at some point I think those
00:27:07
things are going to get more intertwined
00:27:09
and and just become uh a part of the uh
00:27:13
company's own internal and external uh
00:27:16
financial reporting and audit um
00:27:19
processes. Now um Eric, the web is
00:27:21
increasingly going mobile. I mean people
00:27:24
are no longer just accessing Facebook or
00:27:26
Facebook or Twitter on their computers.
00:27:28
They're now using their smartphones,
00:27:30
their iPads, their I mean any just
00:27:32
really just about anything at this
00:27:34
point. I mean what is the impact on what
00:27:36
is the impact on the of that on the way
00:27:38
that social media evolves in the future?
00:27:40
What are the major emerging trends
00:27:41
you're seeing from people going mobile
00:27:43
and you know tweeting when they're they
00:27:45
instead of tweeting about something they
00:27:46
bought once they get home, they're
00:27:48
tweeting as they're paying at the cash
00:27:50
register. Well, I might say this was a
00:27:52
setup question, but thank you for asking
00:27:54
that particular question and there's a
00:27:56
reason why. Um for all of you that want
00:27:57
to attend in February and 2012 uh 2012
00:28:01
happens to be the year of mobile for the
00:28:02
Wharton customer analytics initiative
00:28:04
and we're having an event here in
00:28:06
February on the use of mobile and uh
00:28:09
it's an academic and practitioner
00:28:11
conference about that. Um at the end of
00:28:13
the day it's local hyperargeting. That's
00:28:16
the ability that mobile devices provide
00:28:19
is that you're going to start to see
00:28:21
couponing done. You're already starting
00:28:23
to see it done at a local level. Um,
00:28:25
you're starting to see companies
00:28:26
obviously Foursquare, Gowala, lots of
00:28:28
different companies where it's not just
00:28:30
about what you're saying, it's about
00:28:32
where you're saying it, when you're
00:28:33
saying it. In some sense, think about
00:28:35
all the changes on the web in the last
00:28:37
10 years and what's called contextual
00:28:39
advertising. It's not just serving you
00:28:40
the right ad. It's serving you the right
00:28:42
ad under the right context, under the
00:28:43
right landing page at the right time.
00:28:45
Well, now it's not just about what Steve
00:28:48
Annen or Mike Lewis or Eric Bradler is
00:28:50
saying. It's when are they saying it,
00:28:52
under what context and under what
00:28:54
business situation. And so what you end
00:28:56
up getting in all of these industries is
00:28:59
first it's just let's just listen to
00:29:00
everything they're saying and you say
00:29:02
okay that's great but then the next step
00:29:03
is what Steve said is how do you build
00:29:05
context around that and when somebody
00:29:08
says something and where they are when
00:29:10
they say it is probably an important
00:29:12
part of the way all of us speak and
00:29:14
think about it because if I'm pissed off
00:29:16
and I say something but it's cuz I'm you
00:29:17
know um you know I'm next I'm right at
00:29:19
the register that's very different than
00:29:22
if I say something when I'm back home
00:29:24
I've had time to think about it. The way
00:29:26
firms interpret that information is very
00:29:28
different. So let me just say mobile is
00:29:31
the friend of people in social media
00:29:33
listening. It's not just that the volume
00:29:35
is going up, it's that the context goes
00:29:38
up. Now I mean Steve to ask you about I
00:29:40
mean because people are doing this more
00:29:42
and more and then obviously companies
00:29:44
want to harness what they're doing and
00:29:46
sort of give them deals when they want
00:29:48
them, where they want them. Where do
00:29:49
privacy concerns fit into that? I mean
00:29:51
because there is that sort of concern. I
00:29:52
think, you know, you see it every time
00:29:54
Facebook comes out with an update.
00:29:55
There's that at least some group of
00:29:57
people saying, "Well, I don't know if I
00:29:58
want people to know what I'm doing and
00:30:00
what I'm buying every minute of the
00:30:01
day." So, how do companies deal with
00:30:03
that? Well, I think it's important to to
00:30:05
put it into context as well because
00:30:06
there have been privacy concerns for
00:30:08
hundreds of years. You know, every new
00:30:10
technology, every new marketing approach
00:30:12
has the potential to encroach on that.
00:30:15
Social media is by definition social. I
00:30:17
mean, most of the interactions we that
00:30:19
take place in social media are meant to
00:30:21
be seen. What we're talking about is not
00:30:24
not cracking the code of PII, personally
00:30:26
identifiable information, or going in
00:30:28
and finding out all your behaviors on
00:30:29
your laptop. We're talking about the
00:30:31
person who wants to vent at the cash
00:30:33
register because they're having a great
00:30:35
or not great experience. talking about
00:30:36
people who, you know, are seeking out uh
00:30:39
products and services you may offer or
00:30:41
they're listening to their friends or
00:30:43
communicating with their friends or
00:30:44
colleagues or other professionals about
00:30:46
important topics. So, I really kind of
00:30:49
think that the the the privacy concerns
00:30:52
are understandable because it's it's new
00:30:54
and there's always the fear that that
00:30:56
big brother is tracking me. But when
00:30:58
we're talk what we're talking about in
00:31:00
terms of active listening and and
00:31:02
applying mobility and a lot of the new
00:31:04
technologies is the fact that these
00:31:05
conversations are created to be heard
00:31:08
anyway. And it gives us the ability to
00:31:11
hear the voice of the customer at their
00:31:13
point of need. It gives us the ability
00:31:15
to communicate with the customer when
00:31:17
they've already got a relationship with
00:31:18
us. We're launching a a product for
00:31:21
small business, social media toolbox for
00:31:23
small businesses out there because we
00:31:25
recognize small businesses don't have
00:31:27
the time or wherewithal to understand,
00:31:30
excuse me, the entire
00:31:31
landscape. Uh, but they know that they
00:31:34
need to reach out to customers in
00:31:35
different ways, right? And the customers
00:31:37
are telling them, right? Here's a coupon
00:31:39
for your mobile phone. It's a lot easier
00:31:41
than trying to clip it out of the the
00:31:43
circular or, you know, next time you
00:31:44
come in, wave your mobile phone or wave
00:31:46
your iPad under this thing. you know, we
00:31:48
can help you do that. So, it's also a
00:31:50
matter of keeping up with the times and
00:31:52
keeping up with the needs of the
00:31:53
customer. Now, Mike, you devote a
00:31:55
chapter of your book called United We
00:31:57
Buy to the phenomenon of group buying,
00:32:00
which is one way that a lot of small
00:32:01
business are actually getting in on
00:32:03
social media. So, do you but do you
00:32:05
think companies like Groupon still have
00:32:07
the promise that they once had? I mean,
00:32:09
which social buying sites do you find
00:32:10
the most useful and why? It seems like
00:32:12
they're everywhere nowadays. Well, if
00:32:14
there's, you know, been any real major
00:32:17
change since we published the book just
00:32:19
a short while ago, it's it's been, you
00:32:21
know, in this in this area. Uh, first of
00:32:24
all, I still I still think that these
00:32:26
companies have promise and they will
00:32:28
find their niches and this is really
00:32:31
just uh a a new mode of advertising that
00:32:34
are available to large and small
00:32:36
businesses. So uh at some point the
00:32:39
landscape will consolidate this this
00:32:42
type of group buying and and discounting
00:32:44
will still be uh prominent but I don't
00:32:48
know that it has the you know major put
00:32:52
uh promise that it was showing say
00:32:54
earlier this year and and so forth but
00:32:57
it it's still going to be big and it's
00:32:59
still going to going to be meaningful.
00:33:01
Uh the other part of that chapter, you
00:33:04
know, we talk a lot about ratings and
00:33:06
rankings and at some point uh I think
00:33:09
rankings and ratings become real
00:33:12
important too. Um and and one other
00:33:15
thing back to what Steve was just saying
00:33:17
as we look at launching our set of tools
00:33:19
for the small business, keep in mind
00:33:21
small businesses are are saying we
00:33:24
understand we need to do this. We don't
00:33:26
know quite what we need to do except
00:33:29
back to Eric's point. I think we do need
00:33:31
to reach our customers and we need to
00:33:34
try to bring in other potential
00:33:36
customers. And how do we do that? And
00:33:38
fortunately, the things that you know
00:33:41
have been shown to be successful in the
00:33:44
group buying world, Groupon in
00:33:46
particular, can now be put in a set of
00:33:48
tools where small businesses can offer
00:33:50
coupons directly to their customers uh
00:33:53
without worry that it's going out in a
00:33:55
big way to people who may only uh come
00:33:58
in for the discount once and and never
00:34:00
return. So it it you know that
00:34:01
transaction is not uh advantageous for
00:34:04
the for the small merchant but u also
00:34:08
give them the ability to produce coupons
00:34:11
get get the group buying activity they
00:34:14
want out but under their control. So, I
00:34:17
think the influence that the group
00:34:19
buying sites have had is is going to be
00:34:21
with us and I I do think they're going
00:34:23
to continue to be a meaningful uh set of
00:34:26
companies, but obviously uh
00:34:29
consolidation's going to going to take
00:34:31
place here pretty rapidly. Groupon
00:34:32
wishes they had taken the 8 billion from
00:34:35
Google, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I
00:34:37
mean, I know that even just the other
00:34:39
day, I noticed that Amazon now h is
00:34:40
sending me deals when I didn't even know
00:34:43
where that they had something like that.
00:34:45
Now to go with the small businesses. I
00:34:46
mean the other thing I've noticed is
00:34:48
that I mean small
00:34:49
businesses seem to have I mean there
00:34:51
there seems to be a lot of new
00:34:52
opportunities for them with this because
00:34:54
I mean I know a lot I personally follow
00:34:56
a lot of small businesses on Twitter now
00:34:57
because that's when they'll say where
00:34:58
they're going to be where they're going
00:34:59
to be selling. I was at a farmers market
00:35:01
earlier in the summer where they had
00:35:02
small businesses had something that they
00:35:04
could attach to like their iPads or
00:35:06
iPhones where they could actually swipe
00:35:07
credit cards. Can you talk a little bit
00:35:09
about I mean has this allowed small
00:35:12
businesses to kind of in a way maybe
00:35:15
catch up to some of the things that
00:35:16
larger businesses are able to do because
00:35:17
they have more resources? Eric, I mean
00:35:19
why don't you speak to that? Well, I
00:35:21
think the answer is yes. Actually, to be
00:35:22
honest with you, my best resource is my
00:35:25
14-year-old son is just absolutely
00:35:27
amazing at anything he's interested in,
00:35:29
he now follows. And so he gets we get
00:35:33
deals, coupons. It's great. He's like an
00:35:35
information guide to us. Um, and I think
00:35:38
here's the challenge though. The
00:35:40
challenge with that is yes, but
00:35:42
eventually how is any small business
00:35:44
going to rise above the clutter that's
00:35:46
there? So maybe right now I'm making the
00:35:48
number up. 5% of small businesses are
00:35:50
doing it. What's going to happen when
00:35:51
that number is 30%, 40%, 50%. Then all
00:35:55
of a sudden I'm going to get 50 tweets
00:35:58
saying what's going on in my local area
00:36:00
or 50 text announcements about what's
00:36:03
going on. and then all of a sudden I'm
00:36:04
back in the big wash of everyone's kind
00:36:07
of doing this. So don't forget the
00:36:09
fundamental challenge of messaging and
00:36:11
advertising was it's still about the
00:36:13
right message targeted to the right
00:36:15
person at the right time. If you think
00:36:17
that your long run competitive advantage
00:36:20
is going to be because we're doing it
00:36:21
and someone else is not, that's not
00:36:23
what's going to happen. And so those
00:36:25
same challenges, fundamental challenges
00:36:27
of marketing and advertising are still
00:36:29
going to remain. I think it relates to
00:36:30
what Steve said earlier. you've just
00:36:32
added another medium to do it, but it's
00:36:34
still fundamentally about messages
00:36:36
hitting people at the right time. Now, I
00:36:38
mean, Mike, to ask you, I mean, in terms
00:36:40
of I mean, there's so many different
00:36:42
social media sites out there. And in
00:36:44
terms of creating a strategy, I mean, is
00:36:46
there a point where a company might say,
00:36:48
you know, that particular site maybe
00:36:50
doesn't fit our goals and we're not
00:36:52
going to use it? I mean, or do you have
00:36:53
to be everywhere or is it okay to say
00:36:56
this doesn't fit our goals, this isn't
00:36:57
producing, we're just going to be over
00:36:59
here? Well, I first thing I would say to
00:37:01
to people in a CEO or chief marketing
00:37:04
officer role, uh, social media is a
00:37:08
little bit like taking a drink of water
00:37:09
from a fire hose. I mean, it is all the
00:37:12
time. There's new applications, new
00:37:14
platforms popping up. uh which is good
00:37:17
because it's it's ever advancing our
00:37:19
ability to to take traditional selling
00:37:21
and marketing techniques and push them
00:37:24
out more real time, more individualized
00:37:26
and quite frankly they will have a a
00:37:28
positive impact if used right on your
00:37:31
business. But I think the only real way
00:37:35
to do this is going back to something I
00:37:38
said earlier. Make sure that you create
00:37:40
the impression to your employees that we
00:37:43
are going to be
00:37:45
proactive in social media. We're going
00:37:48
to be proactive in reaching out to
00:37:49
customers and trying to acquire new
00:37:51
customers. And once you do that and make
00:37:53
it part of the culture, uh something,
00:37:56
you know, back to what Eric said, listen
00:37:58
to your employees. they will be the ones
00:38:01
coming to you with something they found
00:38:03
useful which you know may or may not
00:38:05
have hit your radar yet. So I again I I
00:38:07
don't think there's any really uh one
00:38:10
solution to keeping current on
00:38:12
everything that's happening in social
00:38:14
media that that would be useful to your
00:38:17
business. But if you if you have the
00:38:19
whole organization sort of engaged I
00:38:21
think you're more likely to stay current
00:38:23
than than if you're you're you know just
00:38:24
doing it at a certain level. Sure. And
00:38:27
now I guess the last question for each
00:38:28
of you. I mean what is your most
00:38:30
important piece of advice for CEOs
00:38:32
around the world making the most of
00:38:34
social media? And Steve why don't you
00:38:35
start? We have to beware of the shiny
00:38:37
object. All right. So many of these
00:38:39
things pop up and and they can divert
00:38:41
our attention from from larger strategic
00:38:43
goals from from the seauite perspective.
00:38:46
You have to be able to see the entire
00:38:47
landscape. You have to be able to know
00:38:48
what's coming up. You have to be able to
00:38:50
know what's going to affect your
00:38:52
company next, right? In a real way so
00:38:56
that you can affect organizational
00:38:57
change. It does default to listening,
00:39:00
understanding the landscape. It does uh
00:39:02
you know uh benchmarking where you are,
00:39:04
benchmarking where your company is,
00:39:05
benchmarking where your employees are.
00:39:07
Uh but you know as as a a word of advice
00:39:10
going
00:39:11
forward by listening that way by
00:39:14
understanding and hearing uh where the
00:39:16
world is you're going to be able to
00:39:18
discern what shiny object is meaningful
00:39:22
u or not meaningful versus what seed
00:39:25
change or or what aspect of of trends
00:39:27
will affect your business going forward.
00:39:29
So, it's going to start with listening
00:39:30
and start with to Mike's point uh
00:39:32
evangelizing throughout the
00:39:33
organizational and and and and you know
00:39:35
enabling them to be active in social
00:39:37
media and gearing for the fact that the
00:39:39
world is changing at a rapid rate right
00:39:41
now and it affects every business as
00:39:43
Eric said every aspect of the business.
00:39:46
That's not easy to to re-imagine your
00:39:49
entire organization uh in the time
00:39:51
frames that social media will affect it.
00:39:53
But look, social media can topple
00:39:56
governments. It's going to affect your
00:39:58
business.
00:39:59
And Eric, I mean, what would be your
00:40:01
most important piece of advice? I think
00:40:02
Steve provided me, not the government
00:40:04
part, although I agree to that, but I
00:40:05
think Steve provided me a perfect
00:40:07
leadin. I would go to each and every
00:40:08
employee of my company and ask them to
00:40:10
think about the way that social media
00:40:12
can affect the way they do their job.
00:40:15
Not half the employees, every employee.
00:40:18
And I think the minute it comes from the
00:40:20
top down, everybody's going to start
00:40:22
thinking, you know, you're right. I
00:40:23
could do my job a little bit differently
00:40:25
or a little bit better if I involve
00:40:27
social media in it. And I think that's
00:40:29
the way every company should be thinking
00:40:31
about it. Everybody should be a
00:40:33
participant in social media. And Mike,
00:40:36
we'll give you the last word. Well, I
00:40:39
think the the number one thing I would
00:40:40
say back to something Steve touched on
00:40:42
is you can't ignore it. I mean, that uh
00:40:45
is just not an option uh for any
00:40:48
business, large or small. Yeah, if
00:40:50
you're going to grow and be successful,
00:40:52
this has to be part of your overall go
00:40:54
to market strategy. And there's
00:40:57
thousands and thousands of tangents and
00:40:59
ways to look at it, but number one, you
00:41:03
just can't elect not to participate.
00:41:06
Great. Well, thank you all so much. This
00:41:08
has been a great conversation. Thank
00:41:09
you. Thanks, Ra.
