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this podcast is brought to you by
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knowledge at Wharton please visit
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knowledge Wharton upendi D you for more
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information ask any CEO or senior level
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executive what his or her biggest
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challenges and the answer is almost
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always finding and keeping good people
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yet most executives fail to manage their
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company's needs in a way that recognizes
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the unpredictability of the global
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marketplace in a book titled talent on
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demand managing talent in an age of
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uncertainty Peter Cappelli director of
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Wharton's Center for Human Resources
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proposes a new approach to this issue
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and that is to apply the principles of
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supply chain management to people he is
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here today to talk about his ideas
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including the challenge of managing the
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workforce in a recessionary economy
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joining him is Joyce Bradley senior vice
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president general manager of the
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Delaware Valley region of lee hecht
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harrison a global human capital
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consulting firm headquartered in
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woodcliff lake new jersey peter enjoys
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thanks for joining us Peter could you
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define talent management and then
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summarize your approach to thinking
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about how it relates to supply chain
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management so talent management is a
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simple issue and that is we're trying to
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anticipate what the needs and the demand
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will be for people for human capital
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into the future and then setting up some
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sort of plan for meeting it so it's
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pretty simple it's the same problem that
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you see in lots of different parts of
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business what do we think we're going to
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need how we're going to go about meeting
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that the complication is in the old days
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this was really seen as a sort of
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engineering problem that is things were
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thought to be quite predictable if you
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went back to the days of regulation for
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example where companies were pretty sure
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they knew what they were going to be
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making ten years out or so they could
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just work backwards and say this is our
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product demand ten years out these are
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the products are going to be making
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these are the skills we're going to need
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in order to produce those products let's
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just work backwards and the other
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assumption was that all your talent was
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internal you'd hire people right out of
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college
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to school you put them in apprentice
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programs or development programs and
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then you'd work them through those
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processes to develop the skills that you
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had so we had these big bureaucratic
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systems that we're based on the
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assumption of certainty that you knew
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what you were going to need and you
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could just work backwards and build to
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that so the problem now is all that
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assumption of certainty is gone product
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markets change so quickly people hop
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from company to company and you can't be
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sure what the demands are going to be
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and you can't be sure what the supply is
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at least your internal supply so we have
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to go about thinking about this issue
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differently and there are a series of
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techniques that come from feels like
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supply chain management that are
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designed specifically to deal with us
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this uncertainty and so that's what
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we're thinking about doing how to manage
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the uncertainty of the process Joyce
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you're out there every day dealing with
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companies and employees what do you hear
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about the problems they have with talent
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management well I think talent
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management is a good descriptor of how
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many companies are approaching their
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talent pools and there are human
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resources today in this market what
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we're seeing is that many companies are
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looking at it from a holistic
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perspective from not only recognizing
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talent and selecting Talent but hiring
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talent retaining those same people
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developing those people keeping them
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engaged and at the appropriate time
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redeploying and transitioning so it's
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more of a holistic approach it ties into
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Peters descriptor of what's happening in
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the marketplace and I think the the
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whole area of leadership development is
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really intensified as a result of what's
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happening in the demographics and the
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mergers and acquisitions and the
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productivity demands maybe just one
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additional thought on that the reason
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why this matters so much to companies is
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that when you make mistakes it's really
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costly that is you don't have the need
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people to get the work done or we're
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seeing that more now you have too many
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people and you either are losing them
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and losing the investments in them where
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you have to lay them off which is
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expensive and traumatic
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but no one you're when you think about
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supply chain management you think about
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widgets you know people sort of moving
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in victorian moving it out is there a
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downside to thinking about people as
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widgets you know that are that you know
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they have to be cancelled have to be
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pre-ordered maybe they're overstocked I
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mean is there is there some kind of
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dehumanizing involved in this approach
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certainly could be and you know there's
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a long history of dehumanizing employees
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in in the workplace but I think these
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are decisions that get made anyway that
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his companies have to think about how
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many people are we going to hire they
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have to think about are we going to lay
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people off and how many we're going to
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lay off they have to think about are we
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going to develop people and how many are
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we going to develop and at the moment
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most companies a survey results show
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they're they're sort of just doing that
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by flipping coins so they're making
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those decisions anyway and the problem
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is they're just not making them with any
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kind of logic behind them the survey
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evidence shows and maybe you've seen
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some of this too that about two-thirds
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of companies do no planning for
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workforce issues at all so they're just
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making these decisions ad-hoc without
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any thought behind them so I'd like to
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think the way we're pursuing this is
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thoughtful versus not thoughtful as
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opposed to widgets versus humans yeah
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and I think to add to Peter's point I
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think the way you create your corporate
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culture as a leader is playing more and
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more into the retention of talent and
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the attraction of talent people are
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looking going online and looking at
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mission statements and vision statements
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and trying to understand what kind of
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organization this is and what their
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values and whether their ethics are and
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trying to determine whether that's a
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good fit for them and on the flip side
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the companies are looking for people
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that will fit into their culture so it's
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it's a really important issue i think
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the Labor Department recently reported
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that the US economy shed 80,000 jobs in
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March which is the biggest drop in five
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years what kind of challenge does that
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pose for a company that knows it has to
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lay some people off but doesn't want to
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gut its workforce
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well maybe a Joyce may say some in the
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middle minute about the layoffs side per
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se but I would say if you if you took a
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step back and thought how were you
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thinking about these issues before the
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economy turned down and I think the
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worst way to do it is to simply assume
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you know what the demand will be and
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that is not recognized that there's
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uncertainty so I think the model that
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I'm suggesting is one where we try to be
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adaptable and responsive to the
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inevitable changes in demand rather than
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just assume that we're going to plunge
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away I think the the little bit of
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history here what killed this old
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approach was the planning efforts that
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went on in the 1970s when companies were
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expecting growth rates of about five
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percent a year and they just planned for
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that and the economy unexpectedly turns
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south they had these long talent
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pipelines that were like ten years long
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to produce people internally and then it
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turned out that you know they were
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producing a lot more talent than they
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needed 1980s came along and they ended
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up having to lay everybody often they
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got rid of all the functions for
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managing this so I think the issue is
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that before the recession's come to be
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responsive to set up a system where you
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can be responsive to the changes that
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are happening and not just plunge
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blindly ahead with the assumptions about
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growth that you pretty much know aren't
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going to be very accurate to pee back on
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what Peter just mentioned what we talked
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about a lot is agility and what we hear
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our leader leadership folks in
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leadership talking about in companies is
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the agility of leaders to flex and to
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bend not only with the marketplace but
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with employees we're in a situation now
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where we have multi-generations in the
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same workforce multi cultures leaders
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have to be able to address the needs of
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individuals treat individuals as unique
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people in the workforce and flex to the
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demands of the market place and meet
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those at the same time so agility is
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really a key characteristic of leaders
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that were saying they maybe we could
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just be concrete about an exam
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about how you might do this and that is
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if you think about the kind of talent
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the amount of talent you're going to
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need in an organization some of that you
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want to be developing internally but the
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more you do that and develop internally
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you're making a big investment than
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you're making taking out a pretty big
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amount of risk and the risk is if we
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don't need these people we've blown the
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investment so you probably don't want to
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if you think you're going to need let's
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say a hundred people and that's your
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best guess but you're uncertain about it
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you may not want to develop 100
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internally you might want to develop
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maybe 80 internally and then expect to
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hire on the outside if you fall short of
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that demand and then maybe you might
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want to say you know we'll use some
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contingent work and some temporary help
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to close the gap as well right so that
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we are building some adaptability into
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the system and not trying to meet our
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entire estimated demands simply with
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internal development which is a big risk
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a big upfront investment and really
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expensive if you get it wrong Peter in
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your book you point out that many of the
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talent management techniques that are
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quote in vogue now like 360 degree
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