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folks good morning my name is Peter
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Capelli I'm professor of management here
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at the Wharton School and director of
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our Center for human resources my
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colleague Mike Useem was also a
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professor here and director of our
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leadership Center the faculty Center at
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Wharton and I are hosting this series of
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interviews this is our virtual version
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free annual Leadership Conference and
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it's also a joint program with our
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knowledge awarding partners or beening
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this around the world and it will be
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available later for you on podcast
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version with us today to talk about
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leadership every year we try to bring in
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some people who are not just leaders but
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people who study leaders and observe
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them and it's a great pleasure to have
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sidney finkelstein with us in sydney as
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a professor at the Tuck School at
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Dartmouth Tuck School of Business even
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wrong professor up there he also heads
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their executive education program he's a
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longtime observer and expert in the
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field of leadership but we're going to
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talk to him a little bit about his book
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super bosses and the more recent
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addition to this the super boss playbook
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that he's developed has come out
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recently Sydney is joining us form
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Dartmouth up in New Hampshire sandy
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welcome thank you very much Peter great
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to be talking to you and now the folks
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are beaming in saying you want to talk
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just a little bit about your book could
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you spend a fair amount of time not just
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in this book but in your classes and
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generally talking to leaders and let's
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start with the book if you could just
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tell people a little bit about why you
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wrote this book superbosses is a great
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title and I think it does suggest to
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people what you're after here but you
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went around interviewing these folks in
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spending some time with him and watching
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him tell me a little about why you were
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trying to do this book as opposed to
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something else about corporate leaders
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right now it's a great it's a great
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question I had written earlier a book
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called why smart executives fail which
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is about failure and what goes wrong and
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one of the things that came out of that
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research as I went to work with a lot of
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companies and gave speeches around the
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world is you know this is
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we understand what can go wrong but what
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what do you really need to survive and
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thrive into the long term as an
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organization and it got me on a path to
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think about you know what really is the
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most important thing and I and I came up
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with a hypothesis and hypothesis was to
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survive and thrive to be successful into
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the long term you need to be able to
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generate and regenerate talent on a
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continuous basis and I set out to find
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people who have that track record and
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then do deep dives into them and all of
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their protégées and colleagues to try to
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see what is it that they did that's
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different than typical leaders even
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successful leaders and what can we learn
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that maybe we didn't know before you
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know it's a really interesting
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hypothesis and I think in the past
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generation one that probably didn't get
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a lot of attention when you talk to
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people about leading and being
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successful in business you get a whole
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lot of discussion about strategy you get
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a whole lot of discussion about managing
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financial markets and you don't really
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hear that much about developing talent
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from within what kind of reaction did
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you get from your publisher or other
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people when you first started to do this
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you get a sense of people say yeah
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that's really important they say what
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that have you talked about yeah it's
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really interesting it was almost like
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they were they were waiting for this
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deep dive because any CEO you talk to
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fact when I talk to them as you had 20
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years ago and ten years ago and you
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asked what keeps you up at night what
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are you worried about it's always the
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same thing right how do I find the
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world's best talent on our way how do I
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develop them at or how do I retain them
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and they keep having the same problem
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year after year decade after decade now
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why is that because we haven't come up
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with solutions that really move the
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needle very much and that that's the
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reaction I got people said okay some of
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this some of these ideas around super
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bosses are not kind of standard but
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maybe that's what we need and so the
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reaction was wow this is a way to think
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about things mm-hmm you know I just
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wanted to pause on that one for a second
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because when you look at these surveys
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of CEOs they say exactly what you said
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right now that the top concerns are
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about talent but that perception never
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gets passed never seems to get out there
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my guess is if we polled our listeners
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right
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you know what they thought was keeping
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executives up at night that would
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probably not be top of the list but as
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you say in practice it is and it is in
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all the surveys the conference board
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survey why do you think that is why do
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you think this topic and your dive into
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this is something that is not more
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broadly appreciate it is it just not as
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much fun to talk about this as I just
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talked about strategy or something what
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do you think no I think the idea that
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people count that people are our most
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important asset amia we've heard that
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forever in people's eyes glass over and
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I think that and because it hasn't
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really happened because work is just not
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easy and it's been more and more
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pressure put on rank-and-file to
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managers to senior managers I think I
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think many people will say yeah they're
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that they might say that but they don't
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really believe that what they really
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believe is is hitting the numbers and
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pushing us harder and making us work
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work harder and give up more and there's
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a lot of cynicism and I think that that
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could be us behind this yeah yeah that's
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interesting so let's talk a little bit
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about about your book and maybe you
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could tell us a little bit maybe first
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about the people that you interviewed
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and how you picked them because there's
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a huge list that one could draw from
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you're trying to find some best s
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players here so tell us a little about
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who and how you got to him so I was I
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started off kind of small looking at one
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or two industries that I that I care
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about that I'm interested in so the
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high-end foodie industry you know chefs
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and restaurants and I looked at the
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National Football League there's another
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thing I'm interested in so it was kind
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of like just playing around at the
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beginning to tell you the truth and what
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I what I did is as for example Nana
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Fells a really good example I was
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interested in head coaches and the
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development of head coaches and who is
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really good at it and the NFL is a great
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example because there's really good data
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and what I did is I looked at the Super
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Bowl winners and losers the winning team
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and a losing team each year for the two
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best teams I looked at their head
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coaches and I did kind of a a
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genealogical study of them not of course
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their parents but who they work for and
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I created these kind of trees of talent
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and when you do that you discover that
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there's one or two names at the very
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very top over over decades and actually
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the name of the very top is Bill Walsh
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the legendary and longtime coach of the
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San Francisco 49ers now now passed away
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and so I was able to actually quantify
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it in that it's you really really well
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in other industries I have to do a lot
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of grunt work a lot of hunting a lot of
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qualitative research but it turned out
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in every literally every industry I
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looked at I was able to find the one
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sometimes two people that have this
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outsized influence development of talent
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so for example in hedge funds Julian
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Robertson from Tiger management tiger
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cubs mentioned you know high-end foodie
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restaurants Alice Waters from chef
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Penny's the creator of the California
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cuisine and many of the friends and food
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that we see today from farm-to-table the
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organic the local sourcing endowments
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and universities and other nonprofits
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David Swensen from Yale University who's
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kind of legendary has many of his
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protege involved in in running funds and
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running endowments now in an in fashion
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in the fashion industry American fashion
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history Ralph Lauren in the comedy
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industry Lauren Michaels from Saturday
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Night Live
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I mean goes on and on and and you go and
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look at these people and you say wow
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they have they have a track record of
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generating and regenerating talent
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really on a continuous basis and and the
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other thing you discover about them is
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not only that they create these
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opportunities for people and help people
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be more successful in their own lives
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and their own careers they actually
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perform much higher than everybody else
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and and this is actually really
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interesting Peter because sometimes
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people ask me you know they say you know
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Sid we don't have time to spend all we
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don't have all this time to try to
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develop our people they got to figure it
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out I went through the school of hard
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knocks
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they gotta figure it out and and I and I
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said can you imagine a situation when
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your team is getting better and better
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and better where you yourself won't
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benefit is there such a situation where
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you will be punished for helping the
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people around you get better and as a
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result making you better it doesn't make
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a lot of sense but that's kind of what
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what happens so not only developing
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talent but being among the highest
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performers in their industry I must say
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I'm really envious of the idea of
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picking high-end restaurants as a
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subject to study that's a smart one I'll
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try to remember too
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a lot of fun a lot of fun research I
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have to say let's go back to that I
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think one of the points you made which
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is which is really important for people
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listening around the world is that your
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legacy matters a lot and presumably you
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got to these and identify these people
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because their descendants people who
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would work for them we're willing to say
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you know this is the person who really
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helped me right which is a really
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important thing to at the end of our
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careers I'm going to a lot of retirement
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parties you know older executives and
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they always talk about that you know who
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who I thought I helped and how important
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that was but let's move back to the book
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here a little bit and so get to the
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heart of this so what did these folks do
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to develop talent I imagine it's not
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just sending them to the Tuck School or
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to the word in school and that sort of
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stuff what is what do they do there was
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fundamental adieu yeah well there's a
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lot but let me highlight maybe two or
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three things real real quick number one
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is how they source town how they find
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talent they're very they're very open
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minded these super boss leaders they're
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looking for a talent all the time I
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almost I called them almost
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entrepreneurial in how they think about
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talent anywhere they go everywhere they
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go their antennas are up to look for
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potential for potential talent and as a
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result they they often find people have
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been bypassed by by others which i think
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is really interesting because it creates
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opportunities for for people so that
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there's a lot more I could say about
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that but they cast a wide net and
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they're very open minded there they're
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also creative they value creativity I
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say they unleash creativity the people
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around them and this is particularly
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important from Millennials but I think
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it's important for everyone know what do
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we want we want a seat at the table we
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want to have a chance to have an impact
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the best people think that way pie
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aspiration people think that way you
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don't have to be again an MBA graduate
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from a top school to think that way and
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and so super bonds leaders will give you
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that seat and and they'll give you that
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seat and therefore expect a lot from you
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and that goes hand in hand it's not a
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you know get tenure in that seat you
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have to produce and and you're expected
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to keep coming up with new ways of
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thinking along with doing whatever you
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day job happens to be it's it's kind of
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it's kind of standard and how they and
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how they think about how they think
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about things and then you go ahead what
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you gonna say they get accountability
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right so they get some ability and
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accountability they really they really
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do and you know in kind of related to
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that is when you talk about motivating
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people so a lot of ways to talk about
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talking about motivation but there's two
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major things we found among super boss
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leaders number one is they push you hard
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they raise the bar it's not an easy
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place to work with respected the demands
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and the expectations not for it's not
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for everyone but if you're a high
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aspiration person that wants that
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opportunity are you gonna jump at it and
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then the second thing they do is they
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inspire you it's kind of you know kind
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of a weird we hear all the time right
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but they really do they inspire you to
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believe that you're the person you're
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the that you're the team that can
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accomplish this that you're that that
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with you we can do these great things
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and sounds maybe sounds a little soft
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but you combine both of those together
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and at the hard core you know we're
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gonna be tough we're gonna have these
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high demands and at the same time you
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know we I'm inspiring you to feel like
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and really believe that you that we
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together can do anything
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that combination turns out to be pretty
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powerful but maybe we should just tell
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people a little bit about the kinds of
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people that you were talking about can
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you tell us who these folks were yeah so
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when I mentioned a couple Bill Wallisch
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the the head coach from the San
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Francisco 49ers and you know Ralph
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Lauren who you know people know the name
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Ralph Lauren but the number of people
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that work for Ralph that went on to
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tremendous success in their own careers
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really unbelievable perawang Tory virgin
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Abood and John Barr bozos and I mean
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goes it goes on and on the CEO of
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Michael Kors John Idol that's another
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that's another great example in the in
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the food business high-end food is I
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mentioned Alice Waters it turns out that
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there are over 250 people that worked in
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her restaurant at some point that have
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become significant players in that
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ecosystem and I don't mean just you know
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a sous chef becoming a chef but someone
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who may have been baking too that
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creates a big bakery companies to even
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this people that were involved in
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running the
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running her restaurant are now some of
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the people involved in private equity
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and venture investing in some businesses
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really it's really kind of kind of
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amazing though it's lots and lots of
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industry industries ami frist and
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healthcare is another is another good
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example Larry Ellison at at Oracle which
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a lot of people give me grief over
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because there's no tougher executive
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that we know of
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CEO former CEO that we know of than him
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but if you could survive working for for
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Ellison the upside was unbelievable
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many of his top people ended up running
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gigantica you know I wanted to ask you
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about my favorite category out of your
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category of four personality types of
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these folks and that's the glorious
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bastards as and as Ellis in one of those
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just tell it tell us what sir please my
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postive like that else is my this is the
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thing keep in mind the word glorious is
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in front of bastard right there's plenty
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of bosses there that qualify for a team
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of the ladder the ladder adjective but
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what makes some glory and what makes
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these people glorious like a Larry
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Ellison is they understand that to be
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successful they need to have the world's
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best talent around them and they need
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those people to keep getting better and
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better so while they might not care a
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lot about you into personally if you can
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handle that pressure they're just gonna
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accelerate your career it's almost like
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somebody I think said this to me in one
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of my interviews working for Larry's
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like we counted in dog years one year of
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working for Larry's like seven years
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working for somebody else yeah and I
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could certainly see that let's see if we
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can switch topic a little bit because
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we're mindful of your time and the
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audience here and and you've been
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watching this world for a long time and
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in the last year particularly with
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respect to the pandemic it looks like
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the context of business is changing
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quite a bit can you tell us a little bit
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about what you think businesses business
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leaders will be like after well I mean
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from now on the we're in the middle of
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this pandemic now what's a demand from
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these folks
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different isn't it you know this is this
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is obviously a watershed moment and we
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can we can also talk about the the
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racial crisis that has come that has
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come in front of the country and cannot
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be denied anymore
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and leaders are and CEOs in particular
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but leaders more generally are really
00:15:48
expecting to are expected to step up and
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do do things maybe a little bit
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differently than they have and and that
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starts with transparency being
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completely transparent about what it is
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you're saying as opposed to kind of
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manage as opposed to you know we're in
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an era of fake news but the stand-up
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leader has never been more important
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that's why you know so many people
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resonate with Governor Cuomo from New
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York it's become such a star
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and we've been far from perfect but he's
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up there day after day with a message
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that conveys action and seriousness of
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intent and and maturity and and what's
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the result it generates trust and it
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boosts the confidence of the people of
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the people around you and so I think
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that that attribute of what it takes to
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be an effective leader to gain the trust
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of others is going to be even when it's
00:16:35
always an important but it's gonna be
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even more and then then the other thing
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I'd say and there's a lot more to say
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but the other thing I'd say is how is
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business changing and going to change
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because of this I'm I'm talking to you
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and everyone from my dining room right
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now people are home people are working
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from home and and that's not gonna
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disappear when we eventually get get
00:16:58
back to get back to work as normal and
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what does that mean for managers how do
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you manage a team when they are much
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more likely to be virtual some or all of
00:17:07
the time and and learning how to do that
00:17:10
I think is going to be is going to be
00:17:11
more is going to become more important
00:17:13
than there's some kind of nuts and bolts
00:17:14
think supply chain management we've
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discovered because of the the problems
00:17:19
with PPE that these long complex the
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highly efficient supply chains didn't
00:17:26
give us any flexibility to be able to
00:17:29
kind of step in and and and produce what
00:17:31
we needed in real time and that's our
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note to be a big that turned out to be a
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big big problem and then speed of work
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I'm going to say I think it's really
00:17:40
is really important you know the the
00:17:42
pace that decisions are being made we
00:17:44
didn't have to talk about the the pace
00:17:46
of you know aunt antibody treatments and
00:17:49
other treatments and vaccines of course
00:17:51
which you know hopefully will we'll get
00:17:52
there but the pace that it's going on it
00:17:55
says is tremendous and and and so we've
00:17:58
kind of knocked away a lot of
00:18:00
bureaucracy and a lot of oh we better
00:18:02
study this and study this and study this
00:18:04
well now the alternative is something
00:18:06
really really bad so we're doing less
00:18:08
studying and more action and many CEOs
00:18:11
I've talked to over the years they some
00:18:13
have said something like you know I
00:18:14
don't have to be right all the time
00:18:15
nobody's right all the time but if I'm
00:18:18
if I'm right more than half the time
00:18:20
that's pretty good as long as I know
00:18:21
when I'm not right I step in and do
00:18:23
something about that and try to fix it
00:18:25
that's that's gonna be I think a central
00:18:28
part of what makes for an effective
00:18:29
leader moving we're gonna get to our
00:18:33
questions in just a second here matter
00:18:34
one more for you before we get there and
00:18:36
that is if you think about the CEO today
00:18:39
and a lot of challenging social
00:18:41
questions of black lives matter issue is
00:18:44
right on the table right now and what do
00:18:47
you think about CEOs who are in a
00:18:50
position where maybe their personal
00:18:52
beliefs and what's going on in society
00:18:55
are not particularly well balanced
00:18:59
though for example we saw this earlier
00:19:01
on gay rights for example LGBT community
00:19:04
issues about all the CEOs were in favor
00:19:07
of those but maybe their employees were
00:19:09
what do they do there is they just
00:19:11
better to keep their mouth shut or do
00:19:13
they have to articulate positions that
00:19:16
make sense for the organization even if
00:19:18
it's not their personal positions what
00:19:20
do you see happening so this is really a
00:19:23
big big challenge because it goes
00:19:25
against it puts in conflict to kind of
00:19:28
core things that every leader is told by
00:19:30
one is you got to be authentic you got
00:19:31
to be true to yourself and and so
00:19:35
there's one then the other which is even
00:19:37
bigger is how business goes which is
00:19:40
customer focus we're all about customer
00:19:42
focus well you know we're not going to
00:19:44
sell our customers what we think is the
00:19:46
right thing to do the right the right
00:19:48
product unless we believe customers
00:19:50
and we have to convince them no Steve
00:19:52
Jobs is kind of this people say what
00:19:53
about Steve Jobs he created this stuff
00:19:55
nobody knew we needed a knife and iPad
00:19:57
or pod for that matter
00:19:59
well there's one Steve Jobs and there's
00:20:01
probably a hundred thousand others
00:20:03
that'll fail trying to do the same type
00:20:04
of the same type of thing we can't make
00:20:06
you know leadership practice based on
00:20:09
Uglies ultra exceptions so to follow
00:20:13
your own beliefs I think when that's not
00:20:17
what the your ecosystem is demanding is
00:20:19
is gonna be a really is gonna be a real
00:20:21
problem and it might it might fall on
00:20:23
boards of directors to start to think
00:20:25
about value systems at a very personal
00:20:27
level when they start hiring and
00:20:28
evaluating CEOs because there there is a
00:20:31
fit and you know if employees are in
00:20:34
revolt if the managers are not happy
00:20:37
with the way the CEO is running business
00:20:39
because of certain values that are out
00:20:40
of touch that's that not just that's not
00:20:43
gonna work yeah that's a really
00:20:47
interesting point I think we are at the
00:20:50
point in the show here where we turn to
00:20:52
questions and answers and I hope I've
00:20:55
got this at the right point so great
00:20:57
pleasure to have with us the Eagle Yomi
00:20:59
who is our knowledge of Wharton partner
00:21:02
the executive director there and Steven
00:21:04
been listening to what people in the
00:21:06
audience have been asking and I'm gonna
00:21:08
get all the way and turn it over to
00:21:09
Steve thanks Peter hi Sidney
00:21:13
we have time for a couple of good
00:21:15
questions we got lots of questions here
00:21:16
about talent development attracting
00:21:19
talent so so let's I'll ask this one how
00:21:22
can leaders develop talent effectively
00:21:24
while people are working remotely does
00:21:26
that pose more of a problem and the
00:21:28
other question was should maybe talent
00:21:30
development be sidelined for the time
00:21:32
being during this crisis take the second
00:21:35
question first the answer is absolutely
00:21:37
not it's the sideline talent development
00:21:41
is to send a signal of people around you
00:21:43
that you know what your future is not is
00:21:46
actually not that important now we got
00:21:48
to do something else how do you motivate
00:21:50
people you motivate people when they
00:21:52
feel like they're part of something they
00:21:54
are contributing something so I don't
00:21:55
think I would I don't think I would do
00:21:57
that and by the way that's not just
00:22:00
about spending money which is some
00:22:02
what motivates that type of mindset we
00:22:04
got to cut back we don't have money in
00:22:06
training budgets are often among the
00:22:07
very first things that get that get that
00:22:10
cut when when times are tough the best
00:22:12
way to develop talent is for in an
00:22:15
individual boss or an individual leader
00:22:17
to work directly with the people that
00:22:19
work for her one-on-one though that's
00:22:22
the best way that's what super boss
00:22:23
leaders do and it's not necessarily
00:22:25
going offer training and and the first
00:22:29
the first question was again see how do
00:22:33
you develop what can we do to develop
00:22:35
talent this situation and present barmen
00:22:37
yeah given the fact that people are so
00:22:40
dispersed and working on the other end
00:22:42
does that post more of a challenge for
00:22:44
talent development yeah well it does the
00:22:48
fact that it the fact that that's the
00:22:50
way we are doing work and we'll continue
00:22:52
to do work even more it's it's just
00:22:55
raises the degrees of difficulty I
00:22:57
always say know that before all this
00:23:00
happened when everyone's working from
00:23:01
home or almost everyone is working I
00:23:03
used to say well there will be time
00:23:05
times when you're face to face and when
00:23:08
you face the face that becomes gold and
00:23:09
that's an asset that's really valuable
00:23:11
you got to leverage that time so for
00:23:13
example you don't want your powerpoint
00:23:16
presentation so you don't want the
00:23:17
updates from from teams when when you
00:23:20
finally have a chance to be face to face
00:23:21
that could all be done offline you just
00:23:23
got to be smart about when you're face
00:23:25
to face it's about it's about talking
00:23:27
it's about learning it's about
00:23:28
interacting it's about pushing and
00:23:30
challenging and so I'd say using your
00:23:32
time much more effectively and thinking
00:23:34
about you know of all the things that we
00:23:36
do what could we actually push offline
00:23:39
and what do we absolutely need to be
00:23:41
doing face to face so even though it's
00:23:45
more difficult it doesn't mean that it's
00:23:47
going to go away it just means it's got
00:23:49
to get done and and this is another
00:23:50
thing to keep in mind the managers that
00:23:53
figure it out the leaders have figured
00:23:54
how to do this more effectively are
00:23:55
going to have a competitive manager
00:23:57
that's a pretty good sense try to put
00:24:00
your energy into that right right it
00:24:04
also during this time do you have any
00:24:05
advice for how managers can best lower
00:24:08
employee anxiety while they work
00:24:10
remotely because I think that it's a
00:24:12
very anxious time not only because
00:24:14
what's going on in the world but because
00:24:15
things
00:24:15
changed dramatically most people are
00:24:18
kind of in a zone now but but how can a
00:24:20
managers help to lower employee anxiety
00:24:23
during this time yeah I think there are
00:24:25
two things one one is communication and
00:24:29
more general level the best leaders as
00:24:31
managers know that they need to be
00:24:33
communicating communicating often and
00:24:35
effectively I think the bar has been
00:24:37
raised on that too you don't want to use
00:24:39
up everybody's time all the time people
00:24:41
are working and their kids are running
00:24:42
around the house and not everybody else
00:24:44
childcare etc but communicating what
00:24:48
you're doing and and what people are up
00:24:50
to and where and where you're going and
00:24:52
inspiring people a little bit I think is
00:24:54
is important and that the second thing
00:24:56
is more of an individual idea which is
00:24:59
for each individual on your team
00:25:01
carve out some time to have that
00:25:03
one-on-one conversation not the big zoom
00:25:06
thing or the Blue Gene thing or whatever
00:25:08
it is and one of the best ways you can
00:25:13
signal that you really care about
00:25:15
somebody and this will alleviate or help
00:25:17
alleviate their anxiety is if you if you
00:25:22
if you if you try to understand what it
00:25:24
is they need and they want in their own
00:25:26
careers at this point in time and and
00:25:29
that could be you know starting to think
00:25:30
about well you know within that within a
00:25:32
year hopefully we're we're on the other
00:25:34
side and here's what I'd like to do and
00:25:36
how we're going to continue or I have an
00:25:37
aspiration to be you know a senior VP or
00:25:41
a c-suite executives here to actually
00:25:43
spend the time I hesitate to use the
00:25:47
word coaching because coaching is a word
00:25:48
to use all the time that's a little bit
00:25:50
weak I prefer almost like partnering as
00:25:52
a better as a better word where you're
00:25:55
not only providing advice but you're
00:25:57
actually helping them execute on on this
00:26:01
so for example if somebody needs certain
00:26:03
skills to get to the next stage you help
00:26:06
them figure out how they can get those
00:26:08
skills with them and if that means a new
00:26:11
assignment a new opportunity you do that
00:26:13
so that's just good kind of managing
00:26:15
people activity but I think when you
00:26:18
when you do that especially now you're
00:26:20
demonstrating in a real way not just
00:26:23
with words which I think are important
00:26:24
but not just with words in a very real
00:26:26
way that you know you care about each
00:26:28
individual person and you
00:26:29
want them to succeed and you want to
00:26:31
understand what's going on in their in
00:26:33
their lives now and work together to try
00:26:35
to get them to the next stage whatever
00:26:36
that happens to be right right and I I
00:26:40
think that one one issue that does come
00:26:42
into play in these scenarios is
00:26:43
micromanaging or a tendency to
00:26:46
micromanage look what is that if what is
00:26:48
it in effect due to employees yeah so
00:26:53
micro managers the definition is someone
00:26:56
who does your work for you or does tells
00:26:59
you so much detail that it's as if
00:27:00
you're just filling in the connecting
00:27:02
the dots and you know some jobs that
00:27:05
that makes sense
00:27:06
automation actually does that to some
00:27:08
extent but for managerial jobs for
00:27:10
leadership jobs for people that want to
00:27:11
have a bigger impact want to have some
00:27:13
of their own personal capability it's
00:27:15
the last thing you want to do and and I
00:27:18
found you know that super boss leaders
00:27:20
they were hands on it's kind of one of
00:27:22
these paradoxes I'm hands on delegate
00:27:24
errs there were very big delegate errs
00:27:26
which means they're not micro managers
00:27:27
but they were also hands on they were
00:27:29
involved with people they they did some
00:27:33
of that partnering that I just that I
00:27:34
just described but if you're if if you
00:27:37
fall into this trap I mean it's a losing
00:27:39
formula if you're gonna start doing
00:27:41
other people's jobs for them how are you
00:27:44
ever gonna survive all right you know
00:27:46
when people tell me that you really well
00:27:48
the number one thing when people tell me
00:27:50
you know I don't trust my team or I've
00:27:53
run out of time or I I'm working day and
00:27:55
night it gets down to trust doesn't it
00:27:58
that you don't trust your team you're
00:27:59
not delegating enough and usually not
00:28:01
always but usually it's self-inflicted
00:28:03
right right so Trust is the main issue
00:28:05
there well I think we're actually out of
00:28:07
time so I'll switch back over to Peter
00:28:08
but thanks so much thanks Steve
00:28:11
thank you but thank you Steve and I
00:28:16
think we are at our times and now we
00:28:18
should probably first of all do a
00:28:20
virtual thank you for Sydney for being
00:28:22
with us
00:28:23
Denny Finkelstein is the Steven Roth
00:28:25
professor and have the executive
00:28:26
education program with the Tuck School
00:28:28
at Dartmouth and joining us today like
00:28:30
everyone is by video thanks very much
00:28:32
for being with a Sydney and we will have
00:28:35
this up shortly I hope on YouTube you'll
00:28:38
see some of this in knowledge of Wharton
00:28:39
as well and we look forward to following
00:28:41
up with you when we do this
00:28:43
again and sending out those enough thank
00:28:46
you all very much for being with us and
00:28:47
I hope to see you again soon
00:28:57
you
