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[Music]
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John to good welcome to my podcast
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lovely to be here Dom I'm I'm so wrapped
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that um when I reached out to you with a
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DM you said yes cuz I I looked on
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Spotify and apple and I don't think
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you've done a long form chat before no
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no I I I've sort of the only sort of
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things I've got with podcasts is I do 5K
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walks every day that's my that's my jam
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right so so rock and roll these yeah
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yeah so I listen to either the rest's
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history the rest is politics um catch up
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on what's happening around the world uh
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catch up on things that happened before
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I was alive and trying to understand the
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world better while doing something
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healthy for myself that's my podcast
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thing yeah I love that and now people
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are going to get to um hear you in a
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long form conversation and it's it's
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it's an absolute honor for me to have
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you here um yeah quick bio John to good
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from Sheard more number one albums than
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anyone else MH uh male vocalist of the
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year 1996 1998 2000 like you only
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entered every second year yeah which is
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funny because I I mean it's I I reckon
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after 33 years it's only in the last
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sort of five that I've learned how to
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sing and tune so it's funny that I've
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got those Awards before I learned that
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but what do you mean is that just
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self-deprecating or no no no that's
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actually true like I I didn't learn
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really how to CU the thing is sort of
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shouting stuff well no well the thing is
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with with rock music it's so loud you
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tend to like sing sharp naturally
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because it's just you're just trying to
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get get there and I'm singing quite High
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stuff as well cuz I'm a massive YouTube
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fan and that's where Bono sung and blah
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blah BL blah and um and so you tend to
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overshoot it and volume doesn't help
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with pitching and it wasn't actually
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until I did things like the BR sort of
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theater show where I'm singing with
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people like T wter and Julia Deans and
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um Jennifer Ward Leland and they're all
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singing In Tune and I'm going oh right
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there's where the note is you know so
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it's only in the last I'd say maybe in
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the last 10 years that I've really
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learned how to go Ah that's where I
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should be singing well it's been a hell
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of a career for someone that didn't know
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how to sing until a middle age not bad
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also New Zealand Music Hall of Fame 2010
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first Hall of Famer I've had on the
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podcast it's an absolute honor um and
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opened for Legends like ACDC Metallica
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Guns and Roses Black Sabbath um and just
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so much um adversity from a band
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perspective and a personal perspective
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as well I'm looking forward to digging
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into as much or as little as that as you
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want to um first of all I I was trying
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to reflect on um my first experiences
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with she had and it may have been the
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rinik mountain rock festival I don't
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know from pal north um but the the the
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very first memorable one was a show you
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guys were doing at um I think it called
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the rainbow Stadium or the pescal street
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stadium in paliston North it was a big
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one I think it was hi like a hole I
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might get some of this detail wrong but
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I think it was hi like a hole you guys
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wer and feelers and feelers I think were
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headline act that's right and you guys
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were on earlier and [ __ ] hell you
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just blew it blew it away it was like I
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felt bad for The Feelers when they came
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on stage I didn't
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but it was just it was like nothing else
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I'd ever seen it was just it was tired
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it was energetic this is um this is
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probably still when when Dave Gro was a
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drummer in NADA and um later on when I
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saw the food Fighters I was like Dave
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cr's like John to good on stage yeah um
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it's funny cuz he he he saw us on a big
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day out early and then while we were
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living in Melbourne he went on channel V
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which is a music channel and
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went she had the best slide band on the
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planet and I was like what that's the
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guy that's the drummer from Nevada it
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was like Wicked you know so was into it
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you know like he was into our band he
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would watch side of stage and stuff so
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um yeah that was pretty cool and we've
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sort of every time I bump into him which
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is sort of irregularly I met him on when
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he did Them Crooked vultures but he
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always comes up and go hey John how you
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going and blah blah blah and he's he's a
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really decent human being you know like
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which is cool well lots of parallels
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between you guys like the the onstage um
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Charisma and presence and just your just
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the heart you have for the for the fans
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and the audience um you leave nothing
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out there and also um you're a decent
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human off off stage as well I think um
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like our paths only cross sort of real I
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was was in sort of pop music radio and
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the first time I interviewed you and the
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band I I kind of I don't know what I
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expected I kind of expected you to be
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like dismissive or Al or rude or
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whatever um but you couldn't be nicer
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guys yeah we we because I think the the
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the good thing about shead is we all met
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at High School uh we all watched our
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watched each other grow and when anyone
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got the ego got too big it was like
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slapped down like like a group of
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brothers you know so so it was never and
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because we're from New Zealand we've got
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that sort of well you know it's a self
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it is a self-deprecating sort of sense
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of humor and the idea is
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to where you where you do the magic is
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that hour on stage right and that's
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where you get to be that rock star or
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that's where you get to like slay right
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but we always worked out that it's about
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work ethic and it's about
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it's all about you know communities I
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mean like in your industry it's always
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it's who you know you know it's like so
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you don't want to be acting like a brat
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uh and and you know pissing people off
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left or right and Center that doesn't
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serve you it serves you to do your job
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to the best of your ability and then
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just be a decent human being we're also
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brought up with pretty good um family
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lives we're very fortunate in that way
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um and uh you know my parents were both
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working class londoners that came over
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in the 50s and had their kids over here
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they came from sort of yeah lower lower
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lower class mid lower middle class I
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suppose dad was a chippy mom was worked
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at State insurance and it was like that
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whole I used to watch people behave
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badly around when we first started out
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and I would just be like it just looks
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so bad you know and it doesn't it
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doesn't help anybody it's like you're
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actually just um using your power badly
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you know the power comes from what you
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do it's it's about the craft it's about
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the art you know so we we were lucky
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enough to play with ACDC really early on
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in 1991 and watch these older guys work
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hard for 3 and a half hours on stage and
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it was all about the show it wasn't
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about being Wicked and and a rock star
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it was about being the real [ __ ] you
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know so we were lucky enough to play
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with a few great bands and see a few
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great bands when we started I think that
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set us off on the right PA path we
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toured with Midnight Oil they had in
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Australia they similar Vibe it's all
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about the show it's not about being a
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rockar and um they had something to say
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you know so I think we were just lucky
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that the Universe guided us to see
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things that were good examples rather
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than bad examples right right yeah so
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let's go back to the early days so young
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John I've heard in an interview you talk
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about being um your parents being 10
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pound PS what what does that mean so
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that means they were basically they saw
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an advert while they were living in
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London start a new life on the other
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side of the planet have you got a trade
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have you got any skills we need some you
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know we need more workers down in New
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Zealand and they both took independently
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took a punt on coming out to this place
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on the other side of the planet and
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start a new life uh my mom was married
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young to somebody else uh she it was a
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he was cheating on her so she basically
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told him one day in Wellington that she
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was going down the shops jumped back on
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the boat and and sailed back to England
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independently my dad made his way back
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to London from New Zealand and then met
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in London and fell in love got married
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and then decided to come back to New
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Zealand together and start a family so
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that was it yeah yeah amazing and um it
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seems like they were really good Role
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Models like your mom um yeah incredible
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backstory he so so um Jewish yeah
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growing up in the UK and World War II
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didn't you have to change your name yeah
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was less Jewish changed from Burtin to
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Burston they were all worried about
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Hitler sort of making it across the
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ditch you know so they um they changed
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their second name um so she was she was
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ashkanazi Jew so you know the Jews that
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the the Jews find the the lower class
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Jews you know the traveling traveling
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gypsies you know um I think Amy Amy wi
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housee came from that sort of sort of
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vibe you know and then my dad was just
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just I mean I've done my genealogy and
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it's yeah he's just London
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workingclass one of nine kids you know
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like uh yeah and they both they both had
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pretty bad experiences with the war they
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were both billeted out you know into the
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countryside mom was okay but Dad was in
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a really
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abusive place where it was made to work
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and blah blah blah and um yeah so they
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had pretty tough upbringings uh dad got
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a trade as a carpenter um but yeah they
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just they just started took a punt I
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mean I I can't believe you do that you
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know like you know uproot your whole
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life and go to another place that you've
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never even seen but they did it you know
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and um and I'm so glad that they did
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because it was a beautiful country to
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grow up in you know as a kid served you
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well so what was what was young John
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like you you were really good at Cricket
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right yeah I mean that was like in the
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Wellington yeah I was captain of the
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Wellington primary schools cricket team
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so I used to play against Chris Ken who
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was Captain of the canbury cricket team
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in my team I had Mark Ellis I also had
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Danny himona who became Dan Dam native
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the rapper um so he was my opening
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bowler he was formidable um but but um
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uh yeah and and it was it was great you
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know and then I met Tom at high school
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and he gave me a copy of acdc's high a
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hell and Metallica Ride the Lightning
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and said I heard you played guitar cuz I
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had learned to play classical guitar
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between 7 and 11 and uh and sort of put
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it aside when I played cricket and then
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uh he said you you got to learn how to
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play an electric guitar and I was like I
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don't know what electric guitar even
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looks like but yeah sure and he showed
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me how to go and then I was like I'm
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I started writing straight away you know
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like yeah yeah um yeah so when so you
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got your first guitar at 7even at 7 so
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basically the parents my parents took us
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back to London to meet all our family
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cuz we were brought up by basically all
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the people we called uncle and auntie
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were just the people that came over on
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the boats so or the um expats so I
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finally met my family at around 7 and um
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in London and I saw my uncle Charlie
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play uh acoustic guitar and before that
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prior to seeing him play I was under the
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impression that that musicians were
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almost not human they were super human
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you know it wasn't normal people that
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made music cuz both my parents loved
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music but they didn't play who who who
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were they into like what was the music
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in your house so dad was uh elepant
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Gerald and uh um Frank sin Arch all the
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classics yeah that sort of stuff but
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they did have uh Beatles Hard Days night
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and that was the album that I just
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played over and over again yeah are you
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are you a massive like be head massive
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oh my God Sam I'm obsessed with the
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absolutely obsessed abs for me the the
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Peter Jackson three-part series on
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Disney was not long enough I watched it
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three times yeah and I could watch good
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just the interplay between lyen and
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McCartney because there was the the
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whole chck that they hated each other
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and they didn't they were very playful
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with each other no totally and they were
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so young when even then you know after
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all that experience and where they were
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in their career they were still in their
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20s there you know so it's pretty I just
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love the fact that it looks like they
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look like contemp human beings and you
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can actually imagine what it's like to
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be there you know it's such an amazing
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and you you with your musical knowledge
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you'd have like a greater appreciation
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of this than any of us ever could but
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the output of work they did in such a
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short career huge it's huge and I it's
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really good watching their process like
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Let It Be is not one of my favorite
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records it's probably my least favorite
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Beatles record but watching them go okay
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this is just a placeholder line but it's
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fine for now
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we've just got to get this process
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happening and uh that that is really
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inspiring as a writer because the one of
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the biggest blocks to writing is going
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this is not good enough so you stop you
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know it's like they they just went they
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just pushed through cuz they've been
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writing and writing and writing it's
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like that doesn't matter if that Line's
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good that Line's good we just need to
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find that later so let's just keep going
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you know yeah I really liked that I want
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to get to that your your personal
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songwriting process um because I I some
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some of your songs
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just um just like pacifier for example
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uh I always enjoyed that as like a rock
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sort of Pop Rock Anthem I guess but then
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when I got a greater understanding and
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appreciation of um what the song was
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about it just gives me goosebumps to
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this day every time I hear it it's just
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a fabulous song mental health song
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before anyone was even talking about
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mental health stuff yeah well CU because
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I had was having firsthand experience
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with a friend of mine who was bipolar
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and one of the most talented musicians
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I've ever seen But was constantly
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kneecapping the their own career but it
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wasn't and I was wondering why they were
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doing that but then when I learned more
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about his mental health issues it made
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sense and I think it was that that song
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was just for me it was just like I I've
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seen you come out of this and I've seen
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you go into it and I and I know that if
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you can come out of it once you can come
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out of it again it was just more of that
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it's interesting a lot of my songs that
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I write about other people I'm still
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thinking about myself as well it's like
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cuz I away yeah cuz I'm I go through
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dark patches as well I mean I'm I'm a
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I'm an artist so it's like all musicians
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are sensitive beings we was talking
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about that before but we're attracted to
00:14:07
this because it's a way of microfocusing
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and also understanding ourselves and our
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world better right so you get to write
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poetry and go oh that's what I'm
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thinking oh that's why I feel
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uncomfortable that's why that annoys me
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about the world and it's like but
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because we're sensitive it means that as
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much as we can be you know like that
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that that's a problem with with being
00:14:30
sensitive it's like there's no middle
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ground you're either a God or an ant you
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know and that's and that's what that's
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the life you have to swing with you know
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and and some people are more extreme and
00:14:41
other people's are less extreme I think
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I'm quite manageable cuz I sort of
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worked out myself and what my triggers
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are so I I can see myself going down a
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dark place I just got to look after
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myself you know like more sleep less
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caffeine and being around people people
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that that are nourishing and encouraging
00:15:01
rather than you know destructive yeah
00:15:03
your people that charge your social
00:15:04
battery rather than drain it absolutely
00:15:06
so so were you were you an angry kid um
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I think I think because I come from real
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working class sort of stock I always had
00:15:14
a real issue with Injustice or people in
00:15:17
powerful positions exploiting people in
00:15:20
less powerful positions that is always
00:15:23
been with me and I think that's just
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comes from my parents um it was always
00:15:27
like you help people who have got less
00:15:30
than you and and when you watch people
00:15:33
that have got more than other people's
00:15:35
Being Greedy or or exploitative uh over
00:15:39
people that have bless you call them out
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you know and that's and and I still have
00:15:44
that yeah so it's interesting when I go
00:15:45
on Hos King he goes you're still angry
00:15:47
John it's like well well I think there's
00:15:50
plenty to be angry about I think there's
00:15:51
still massive inequality in the world I
00:15:54
think there's massive Injustice in the
00:15:56
world so yeah I'm still angry at certain
00:15:57
things but I'm also still I'm a the
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reason I'm angry is cuz I love humans
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and I love uh what they're capable of
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you know and I and and I um and that's
00:16:09
only reason I'm angry you know I'm not
00:16:11
angry cuz I hate the world I feel anger
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is even the wrong word maybe uh maybe
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maybe passionate a better win because
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it's not like you you're flipping people
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off in traffic or I mean some of your
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music's angry the shead stuff but I've
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never thought I'd never describe you as
00:16:24
an angry person no no and well and maybe
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it's because I do have that cathartic
00:16:28
Outlet of playing a really you know
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apocalyptically heavy rock band I get to
00:16:34
scream all that out so that when I'm
00:16:36
shopping at New World I'm I'm not so
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angry you
00:16:41
know why is everything so expensive yeah
00:16:44
totally tell me about okay so um so
00:16:47
shead um you named the band after this
00:16:50
is this is funny given what happened in
00:16:52
America like decades later totally so
00:16:54
you watched a movie called June yep and
00:16:57
so you're how old at the time like 17 18
00:17:00
yes I'd say 16 16 17 uh still at school
00:17:04
still at high school all watched it and
00:17:06
went you know you know it's based on the
00:17:08
Frank Herbert novel June the science
00:17:10
fiction movie uh but I didn't realize
00:17:14
that Frank Herbert had basically based
00:17:15
it around a lot of Muslim sort of and
00:17:18
you know Arabic culture and so he used
00:17:22
uh for the battle at the end they said
00:17:25
it was the shihad you know and we were
00:17:27
like that a cool name for a speed metal
00:17:30
band a massive apocalyptic battle not
00:17:33
realizing that it came from the Arabic
00:17:35
term XI shihad which means struggle and
00:17:38
uh which was later co-opted by you know
00:17:40
more political wings or or branches of
00:17:42
Islam for you know bad things like
00:17:46
blowing up the World Trade Center and
00:17:48
stuff like that so it it is a word that
00:17:50
means struggle which when I look back on
00:17:53
shead's Career it's quite apt but at the
00:17:56
time we just thought it was a good name
00:17:57
for Speed M BAND I totally misspelled it
00:18:01
um I didn't realize it was a j went sh
00:18:03
so spelled it phonetically and then and
00:18:05
then stole the motohead logo font and
00:18:08
then wrote it in the motohead logo font
00:18:10
on the back of my jean jacket and we
00:18:11
were away that was it didn't think about
00:18:14
it until I think I woke up in a hotel in
00:18:16
La when I was 26 and went my God I'm in
00:18:18
a band called holy war it's ridiculous
00:18:21
you know but at the same time by that
00:18:23
point we'd already created two or three
00:18:26
really cool records and got this
00:18:28
following and she you were a brand at
00:18:30
that yeah she had meant something else
00:18:32
you know to us so yes um yeah didn't
00:18:36
think about I mean well who would have
00:18:37
predicted what was yeah yeah it's it's
00:18:39
an amazing Twist of events even even
00:18:41
down to you being Muslim now absolutely
00:18:43
absolutely complete full circle sort of
00:18:45
thing is crazy did it annoy you in the
00:18:47
early years or even now when people call
00:18:48
it she
00:18:50
had she she had in in Australia straight
00:18:53
away that's just that it's just the
00:18:54
accent you know so she had sounds more
00:18:57
relaxed I suppose but
00:18:59
it was she hard I mean that was that was
00:19:01
what we that was what we named it uh
00:19:03
were you precious about it early on no I
00:19:06
didn't care all I wanted was for people
00:19:08
to come to the shows and and give me a
00:19:11
give me an audience and we'll blow them
00:19:13
away you know that was the idea so when
00:19:15
did you when did you realize you were on
00:19:16
to something special was it quite early
00:19:18
on um I think we were um we were classic
00:19:21
heavy metal kids total dweebs out of the
00:19:24
Social Circles I mean I had a bit of a
00:19:26
Social Circle going because I played
00:19:27
cricket
00:19:29
uh so I had a bit of a sport thing going
00:19:31
on but once I decided that music was my
00:19:33
jam I was just basically I was one of
00:19:36
those kids that was lunchtime was spent
00:19:38
at the music room using the amps and the
00:19:40
guitars after school if we can get it
00:19:42
even in the weekend if we can get the
00:19:43
key off the music teacher we were in
00:19:45
there and we were rehearsing and
00:19:47
practicing and we just wanted to be
00:19:48
tight and it was interesting we were
00:19:50
like we were not interested in being
00:19:53
musicians to go to the parties or score
00:19:56
chicks or blah blah blah we were
00:19:58
interested in being as tight as we
00:20:00
possibly could and how do the how how
00:20:03
come International bands s so much
00:20:05
bigger than you know local act and what
00:20:07
are they doing we were on that Journey
00:20:09
straight away and I was really fortunate
00:20:12
to find three like-minded individuals
00:20:15
that were that passionate about parallel
00:20:16
we mentioned the Beatles before
00:20:17
parallels there right yeah I think I
00:20:19
mean people get you know there's so many
00:20:21
talent I mean I do a lot of mentoring in
00:20:23
high schools for the New Zealand music
00:20:24
commission and there are heaps of
00:20:27
talented kids but to get a group of
00:20:30
people that you you're not you're not
00:20:32
going to agree on every record but
00:20:33
you're going to agree on the fact that I
00:20:35
want to do this with my life let's find
00:20:38
out how to do it how are records made
00:20:40
how are great live shows performed how
00:20:42
do you get tight oh you just do it over
00:20:44
and over and over and over and there's
00:20:47
no quick way of doing it you just got to
00:20:48
do the hours you know 10,000 hours or
00:20:51
whatever it is you know but you do need
00:20:52
to do that you know yeah yeah yeah are
00:20:54
you a fan of that that's um Malcolm
00:20:56
Gladwell I think I think it's actually a
00:20:58
real ISM you know it's like and and and
00:21:01
and as you get older you realize oh
00:21:02
life's actually really short and you
00:21:05
can't be an expert in all the fields but
00:21:09
you can be a ninja in one you know if
00:21:11
you dedicate your life to that you know
00:21:14
and and that I reckon there's a real
00:21:15
honor to that finding what you're and
00:21:18
finding what you're passionate about I I
00:21:20
know I thought everyone just knew what
00:21:22
they were passionate about I didn't
00:21:23
realize till I was older that oh not
00:21:25
everyone gets lucky with that as well I
00:21:28
was I was so into music at the age of
00:21:30
two or three that my teeth would be
00:21:33
black from the from the rubber casing of
00:21:37
the record player cuz I just lean my
00:21:39
teeth and watch watch the records go
00:21:42
around while I was listening to music
00:21:43
and my my mom would just be like
00:21:45
horrified cuz my teeth would be turning
00:21:46
black from the the black rubber of where
00:21:49
I just rest my teeth just watching cuz
00:21:51
to me it was Alchemy it was like how was
00:21:53
that sound coming out that needle off
00:21:56
that bit of thing going around and then
00:21:58
coming out through the speakers and
00:21:59
making the sound it was like so that was
00:22:01
my calling straight away it was like I
00:22:03
want I want to know how they do that you
00:22:06
know like so yeah some music was still
00:22:07
like your North Star but it yeah you
00:22:09
talk about the cricket and the success
00:22:10
you had with Cricket so it took you a
00:22:11
long time to sort of find it yeah I I
00:22:13
suppose I think it was it to for me it
00:22:15
wasn't it wasn't a believable sort of
00:22:18
dream or career path well it was like I
00:22:20
I loved music but to actually do it for
00:22:23
a living I I didn't believe that until I
00:22:25
met Tom who made me believe Tom was very
00:22:28
convincing he's the he's the son of a
00:22:30
Tom for those people who don't know Tom
00:22:32
Len is our drummer she has drummer and
00:22:34
also a driving force behind the band he
00:22:37
was the son of a a a diplomat um the his
00:22:40
dad was the New Zealand ambassador to
00:22:42
Japan so he grew up in Japan uh
00:22:44
formative years but he had a real
00:22:46
internationalist sort of vibe as well
00:22:49
you know so I had parents from you know
00:22:51
other countries so it wasn't just about
00:22:53
New Zealand it was always about the
00:22:55
whole world we didn't want to make we
00:22:57
didn't want to just be the best band in
00:22:58
New Zeal we want to be the best band in
00:23:00
the world you know so you know whether
00:23:03
or not you achiev that but that was our
00:23:04
goal you know so we had that sort of
00:23:06
Outlook yeah and you worked bloody hard
00:23:08
like 150 shows in the first couple of
00:23:11
years first year first year and then and
00:23:13
then yeah and even more another years I
00:23:14
mean it's and that is where you get good
00:23:17
again again parallels with like the
00:23:18
Beatles and their Hamburg their Hamburg
00:23:20
show abolutely there there's no way they
00:23:22
would have written all those great songs
00:23:23
and been out to harmonize like they did
00:23:25
live cuz they were all doing those
00:23:27
tracks live without doing those 10,000
00:23:30
hours you know that's where it came from
00:23:32
yeah and then um so your first album
00:23:33
tune um that came out 31 years ago you
00:23:36
recorded that in a week we did which is
00:23:38
astonishingly quick when you when you
00:23:39
look back on that um now as a as a man
00:23:41
in your 50s um do you look and go
00:23:44
actually that's that's quite good work
00:23:45
or do you your toes Cur a little bit
00:23:47
some of the lyrics or well no well so we
00:23:49
had to uh we had to perform that album
00:23:52
live at the end of last year for for the
00:23:55
to raise money for the for bfm and uh I
00:23:59
I was like okay that yeah I I like that
00:24:01
challenge that's good and then listening
00:24:03
to it and going oh wow what am I playing
00:24:06
there man it's like so long ago um but
00:24:09
it was a really nice Deep dive cuz I I'm
00:24:12
always looking forward I'm never looking
00:24:14
back I never I mean that you know you
00:24:16
said before Music Hall of Fame it's like
00:24:18
I remember when they rang me to say
00:24:20
Music Hall Of You Got the Music Hall of
00:24:22
Fame I was like really I I still feel
00:24:24
young I'm still I'm still thinking about
00:24:26
the next album you know like I I was
00:24:28
like sort of slightly offended but sort
00:24:31
of you know and on it but but um but so
00:24:34
to look back and do a deep dive into a
00:24:36
record you made 33 years previously it's
00:24:38
a really interesting challenge your
00:24:40
physicality is different we were 21 year
00:24:42
old men or 22y old men so we're playing
00:24:45
really fast and we it's really tribal
00:24:47
and rhythmic but it was great learning
00:24:49
it and yeah there were some lyrics where
00:24:52
I went oh man I wish I I'd lived a
00:24:54
little bit more before I wrote that but
00:24:57
but there was still four or five songs
00:24:59
where I go yeah I can agree with that
00:25:01
you know and um it's quite cool though
00:25:03
it's like like a photo it captures a
00:25:05
moment in time absolutely they're all
00:25:06
Diaries man they're all every it is it's
00:25:09
your diary for the year you know I was
00:25:10
going to ask you if you have a favorite
00:25:11
shead album but I from what you've just
00:25:13
said you probably suffer from um recency
00:25:16
buyers I always do of course because
00:25:18
that that's that's the because I the way
00:25:21
we do it is we make a record I consume
00:25:24
it like a kid in a candy store like
00:25:26
listen to it way more than the other
00:25:28
kids the other guys in the band and I
00:25:30
just like use it all up and then I can
00:25:32
never listen to it again because I've
00:25:34
just I've just pegged out on it
00:25:36
basically so I mean cuz it to me it's
00:25:38
like cool I I just want to surround
00:25:40
myself in what I'm actually thinking at
00:25:42
the time because it helps me make sense
00:25:45
of the world so I just use it all up and
00:25:47
then I move on to the next thing now how
00:25:49
do I see the world and what have I been
00:25:51
listening to that makes me think about
00:25:53
things differently or what speech have I
00:25:55
seen that's make me think differently
00:25:56
you know so I do have um recency bias
00:26:00
that's I've never heard that someone
00:26:03
that to me because people ask me all the
00:26:05
I've done like over 100 of these
00:26:06
podcasts now people say oh what's your
00:26:07
favorite and it's like it's always
00:26:09
inevitably one that's happened like in
00:26:11
the past month yes um cuz you're feeling
00:26:13
it yeah I I always thought that was a
00:26:15
when I was doing radio interviews and
00:26:16
you'd have like say Tom Cruz on or Ed
00:26:19
Shon and you'd ask him favorite song
00:26:20
favorite movie Whatever they'd always
00:26:22
said it was an ey roll thing it was like
00:26:23
oh for [ __ ] sake you know give me an
00:26:26
honest answer don't say mission
00:26:27
impossible for but I said understand it
00:26:29
now it's like whatever you're working on
00:26:30
at the moment you think it's the best
00:26:32
thing you've you you've done and you've
00:26:33
been there and done that with all the
00:26:35
other stuff you know so your feeling's
00:26:37
different for it but in saying that I
00:26:39
think I think the first two records are
00:26:42
really solid for you know uh especially
00:26:45
killjoy because we self-produced that
00:26:47
it's quite a unique sound that could
00:26:48
have only come out of I think growing up
00:26:51
in New Zealand watching Flying Nun bands
00:26:54
like you know the Skeptics or headless
00:26:56
chickens or Bower space and then mixing
00:26:59
it in with a sort of '90s sort of
00:27:02
industrial metal thing that we loved you
00:27:04
know Ministry and 9in nails and and then
00:27:08
also being introduced by the people in
00:27:10
those bands to things like My Bloody
00:27:12
Valentine and realizing oh you can make
00:27:14
a wall of sound and it can actually be
00:27:16
like a big warm hug as well as being an
00:27:18
assault and that album wouldn't have
00:27:21
existed without a upbringing in New
00:27:23
Zealand you know like so I think that's
00:27:25
a cool record I think General Electric's
00:27:27
a great pop record um for what we were
00:27:31
doing um and meeting GTH Richardson who
00:27:34
produced that record of the guy from
00:27:35
Vancouver who made the first Rage
00:27:37
Against Machine album made us believe
00:27:39
that we could make internationally
00:27:41
sounding records that was a really good
00:27:45
uh insight into oh how do you make those
00:27:47
big big rock rock records and that was
00:27:50
really cool but I do think old gods I
00:27:52
mean yeah yeah recency but old gods for
00:27:56
a band that's 33 years down the track
00:27:58
sounds vital to me and it sounds fresh
00:28:01
and it's like I wish it was a 21y old
00:28:04
band doing that but that's where I'm at
00:28:06
you know like that's that's the rock
00:28:08
music I want to hear you know so I do
00:28:11
yeah recent C I I I love how passionate
00:28:14
you are just about it it's um it's a
00:28:16
blessing in a cur I think having like a
00:28:18
growth mindset where you just want to
00:28:19
keep keep going keep going keep pushing
00:28:22
forward but it's um it me sometimes it's
00:28:25
it's a curse in the respect that
00:28:26
sometimes it means you don't get to like
00:28:27
sit sit back and celebrate your
00:28:29
successes cuz you're always looking at
00:28:31
what's next yeah and and I I think
00:28:33
that's good though I think it's I think
00:28:35
it's it's good cuz it it keeps you
00:28:37
engaged in the world you know like why I
00:28:39
don't want to surround I I don't want to
00:28:41
create a little Church of Johnny and oh
00:28:44
well done Johnny you done great it's
00:28:46
like well that's the end isn't it I mean
00:28:48
that's might as well just die at that
00:28:50
point I'm not going to do that I I'll
00:28:51
really I'm staying curious I want to I
00:28:54
want to know I how I can help I want to
00:28:56
know how I can make music that's
00:28:58
different and and vital to me that
00:29:00
speaks to me as a 52 year old man and um
00:29:04
yeah it's it's it's exciting it means
00:29:06
that every day is exciting yeah oh we'll
00:29:08
get into this but it's like um yeah
00:29:10
you're doing solo stuff now under your
00:29:12
own name you've done stuff with the
00:29:13
adults and a whole lot of other projects
00:29:15
and bits and pieces so I feel like
00:29:17
you're more immersed in the music
00:29:19
business than what you ever have been
00:29:20
before and you're just like opening all
00:29:22
these different doors yeah and and you
00:29:24
know I mean with the adults it's like
00:29:26
first album I get to work with basically
00:29:27
my Heroes it's like writing lyrics with
00:29:31
Shane Carter from straight jiger Fitz
00:29:33
awesome I used to go and watch those
00:29:35
guys at um uh Paisley Park and in
00:29:38
Wellington go whoa It's like a wall of
00:29:41
guitar amazing and he was just such an
00:29:43
amazing front person so now that I'm
00:29:45
sort of a friend of his it's it's it's
00:29:48
still really exciting to me it's cool
00:29:50
and I and he's a great Lyricist you know
00:29:52
working with Lady 6 totally different
00:29:54
life experience totally different way of
00:29:56
approaching music but still it made me
00:29:58
go all right but they're still singing
00:30:00
about the same things but just with a
00:30:02
different vocabulary and so it's really
00:30:03
great second album I get to work with
00:30:06
traditional sudin female musicians in
00:30:09
cartoon who are who are
00:30:11
basically just making music with their
00:30:14
voices and rhythmic in instruments and
00:30:17
just singing about what it's like to
00:30:19
live in that City but then it was still
00:30:23
really I don't know gave me the same
00:30:25
feeling as this may sound ridiculous but
00:30:28
of listening to Joe Strummer Singing in
00:30:30
The Clash you know it was like Proteus
00:30:32
music you know but like from people that
00:30:35
are probably from the rougher side of
00:30:37
the neighborhood who who are talking
00:30:39
truth to power and I just it it's a
00:30:42
universal thing you know like so that
00:30:44
was really eye openening for me and um
00:30:47
you know then bringing that music back
00:30:48
to New Zealand and and working with you
00:30:50
know people like j b or aair or a Radner
00:30:54
and and seeing what parallels there were
00:30:56
with their experiences to these women
00:30:58
cartoon and seeing it how it all mesed
00:31:00
together it was like wow this music's
00:31:02
awesome you know like so I I just love
00:31:04
playing with the art you know it's it's
00:31:05
an art form and um I know you know we
00:31:09
we've made some pop music and stuff like
00:31:11
that but it's still it's all art you
00:31:13
know I mean I like Taylor Swift because
00:31:15
she's an artist who makes amazing pop
00:31:18
music you know you know there's an art
00:31:21
to doing that too you know um but yeah
00:31:24
so anything that's to me sounds like
00:31:26
it's got the right intention behind it
00:31:28
or is real or honest that's what I'm
00:31:30
attracted to yeah working with all these
00:31:32
different people have you are you
00:31:34
familiar with imposter Syndrome have you
00:31:36
ever had that or are you are you quite
00:31:38
self assured and quite comfortable now
00:31:40
oh I know I I definitely think getting
00:31:42
there's one that's the one good thing
00:31:44
about getting older you become more
00:31:45
comfortable in your own skin um agree
00:31:48
you you realize that everyone's just as
00:31:51
insecure as you are so when you walk
00:31:53
into those parties with all the famous
00:31:56
people or whatever it's like you know
00:31:58
they're all like freaking out before
00:32:00
they get there and and once you work
00:32:02
that out life becomes a bit easier you
00:32:04
know and also you know even becoming a
00:32:05
parent that teaches you as well I think
00:32:07
you know it's like right oh right
00:32:09
parents of just people cool I'm just a
00:32:12
person blah blah blah I still feel 18 in
00:32:14
my head even though I'm 52 ah so they
00:32:16
must have done that too you know so I
00:32:18
just um I don't know I've got a lot more
00:32:20
time for other people's stories I think
00:32:22
now I was when I was young it was all
00:32:24
about shead and it was all about what I
00:32:26
wanted in the world what what you know
00:32:28
nowadays it's more like I actually find
00:32:31
it way more interesting hearing other
00:32:33
people's stories and that's inspiring to
00:32:35
me to go and then write a song you know
00:32:37
rather than going oh what does Johnny
00:32:39
think you know I know what I think you
00:32:40
know I want to hear what other people
00:32:42
think and you know that's how I stay
00:32:44
engaged yeah yeah I agree with that
00:32:47
about aging it's like um yeah that's one
00:32:49
one one good thing that comes with it
00:32:50
when you're younger you think you're so
00:32:52
self-conscious you think everyone's
00:32:54
talking about you everyone's thinking
00:32:55
about you and as you get on you realize
00:32:56
well no everyone's just thinking about
00:32:58
everyone's thinking exactly what you
00:32:59
just said everyone's doing that yeah
00:33:02
yeah and it's um and it's yeah and so
00:33:05
usually when I meet uh meet people at
00:33:08
the top of the food chain they're
00:33:10
probably the most insecure that's what's
00:33:12
happened you know whenever I've met it's
00:33:14
it's interesting like when we've played
00:33:16
with International acts it's actually
00:33:18
the
00:33:19
um it's it's it's
00:33:22
um I actually have worked out that
00:33:25
arrogance can actually be it's actually
00:33:28
it's a cover for really deep-seated
00:33:30
insecurity so sometimes I'll give people
00:33:33
a pass for that behavior
00:33:35
because I actually know that underneath
00:33:37
there there's there is a whole pit of
00:33:39
self lothing and and um so but but if if
00:33:43
it's affecting other people badly I'll
00:33:45
probably call it out but um but yeah
00:33:47
it's interesting because out of all the
00:33:49
international acts we've played with
00:33:51
It's usually the biggest ones like like
00:33:54
uh Black Sabbath or ACDC who are the
00:33:56
most relaxed because nothing to prove
00:33:58
nothing to prove apart from the fact
00:34:00
that they're in ACDC like so or or or
00:34:02
they're in black sa so Tony iomi would
00:34:04
turn up an hour an hour and a half
00:34:06
before he had to play he'd be warming up
00:34:08
because here's Tony iomi in Black
00:34:10
Sabbath and he took it serious it's work
00:34:12
ethic it's all about the show it's not
00:34:14
about the glory you know it's about the
00:34:17
glory is the show The Glory is being in
00:34:20
Black Sabbath and and people walking
00:34:22
away from that show going [ __ ] man that
00:34:24
band is dope you know that's the glory
00:34:27
it's not not about well check out me
00:34:30
this photo of me with you know Britney
00:34:31
Spears or or at this party or blah blah
00:34:34
blah or hanging out with Rich B that's
00:34:36
not the glory you know the glory is the
00:34:38
show and is the art you know and and I
00:34:41
think those two bands were really good
00:34:44
for us to play with it's like just made
00:34:46
us know that we're on the right path
00:34:47
it's like yeah it's not about showing
00:34:49
off it's about it's about being awesome
00:34:53
you know but did did you get to me
00:34:54
Britney Spears no I no no no
00:34:58
hypothetical I hypothetical I I I I
00:35:01
jammed with Tara Reed who was like a
00:35:03
sort of like a bit zgrade sort of
00:35:05
Britney Spears she played drums she was
00:35:07
in that movie josy and the Pussycats
00:35:08
that's the sort of thing that happens
00:35:09
when you're living in La for 6 months
00:35:11
you end up meeting okay wa impressive no
00:35:14
further questions about Tower R um okay
00:35:17
yeah since you mentioned ACDC yeah let's
00:35:20
talk about some of these bands that you
00:35:21
open with so ACDC you've opened for them
00:35:22
a number of times over the years so I'm
00:35:24
guessing you you've you've um met or
00:35:27
maybe you're even friends with the
00:35:28
different Phil ruds Phil rud like 20
00:35:31
years ago was very different to the the
00:35:32
Z Phil rud now yeah so Phil was the guy
00:35:35
that actually said we should get Sheard
00:35:37
so I I always take my head off to to
00:35:39
Phil and and and I know he's had some
00:35:42
hard times and um he seems good now
00:35:45
though right yeah I haven't seen him
00:35:46
recently so but yeah I mean I just think
00:35:49
he went was hanging out in the wrong
00:35:50
crowd basically um also I I don't even
00:35:54
know the guy but I'm guessing like too
00:35:55
much money and just bored yeah B and
00:35:58
also it's really hard to come down off
00:36:00
that high of being on the road and
00:36:03
playing in front of 40,000 people a
00:36:05
night or whatever and then come back to
00:36:07
normal everyday life because you just
00:36:09
your body's used to these shots of
00:36:11
adrenaline that are just not happening
00:36:13
I'm sure that happens with sports people
00:36:15
as well you know and it's
00:36:17
like that's why a lot of them fall into
00:36:19
drug and alcohol problems because
00:36:21
because they're not they're trying to
00:36:23
fill that hole that void that's just not
00:36:25
there in everyday life it and it I think
00:36:29
for me I I think having children made me
00:36:33
look at the smaller things and and go
00:36:36
all right there's a whole universe there
00:36:37
you know like so yes I still do miss
00:36:40
that thrill of cuz it is like jumping
00:36:43
out of an airplane playing in front of
00:36:44
30,000 people or whatever you know it's
00:36:46
like it is the best feeling ever you
00:36:48
know in fact supporting ACDC at Western
00:36:51
Springs that was like 62,000 people I
00:36:54
was so nervous before I walked on stage
00:36:56
my eyeballs were shaking inside my brain
00:36:58
you know it was like and then I get out
00:37:00
there and I wouldn't have wanted to be
00:37:02
any other place in the universe it's it
00:37:04
was the center of the universe and it
00:37:05
was like this is the best feeling in the
00:37:07
world you know so um it's it's it's a
00:37:09
it's a hyperreal situation that your
00:37:12
body sort of gets used to so it's it's
00:37:15
hard to to equilibri you know I don't
00:37:18
know the word it's uh hard to you know
00:37:21
find a balance when you when you're back
00:37:22
in normal life even though life really
00:37:26
isn't that normal you know all weird
00:37:28
yeah after doing a show like that how do
00:37:30
you how do you like how do you how do
00:37:31
you decompress how do you wind down oh I
00:37:33
tailed down then went and watched my
00:37:34
favorite band
00:37:36
ACDC it was
00:37:39
awesome cuz I saw a photo of you on on
00:37:42
um Facebook just recently doing um I
00:37:43
think it's the meat stock festival and
00:37:45
there's a massive crowd there um yeah
00:37:48
like do you do you still do you party
00:37:49
after a show or do you just what do you
00:37:52
what do you do nowadays no no no I don't
00:37:53
don't tend to party I I tend to like
00:37:55
what I like doing is I like playing
00:37:57
music
00:37:58
that's that's my you know so I always
00:38:00
have acous guitar around I usually just
00:38:02
like use that adrenaline to either talk
00:38:04
to people meet people I really like
00:38:06
meeting people I haven't drunk for 12
00:38:08
years so I don't need that is that a
00:38:10
Muslim thing or yeah that is from
00:38:12
converting um yeah we don't drink
00:38:14
alcohol but I mean I don't really miss
00:38:16
it I was never a massive Drinker I mean
00:38:19
I'm a sort of person that if I'm going
00:38:21
to go I go large so so when I did drink
00:38:24
I'd drink hard and and I'm I'm I wasn't
00:38:26
a fighty guy cuz I'm far too skinny for
00:38:28
that but I I'd be a property damager so
00:38:31
I'd end up I'd end up jumping on roofs
00:38:34
of cars until they caved in and stuff
00:38:35
like that so it was really not that cool
00:38:37
so um so I just I haven't missed that
00:38:41
but I what it means is that you're
00:38:42
really
00:38:43
discernable about conversations you're
00:38:45
having afterwards if someone's too
00:38:48
drunk all of a sudden it's all about
00:38:50
them so I'm not really interested in
00:38:51
that so I'm just like okay I'm going to
00:38:53
the toilet but but you do have really
00:38:55
interesting conversations and you got I
00:38:57
I find I'm sometimes I'm the last person
00:38:59
standing because I'm not drinking you
00:39:01
know because I got energy you know like
00:39:04
I find my energy higher you know like
00:39:07
cuz you don't get into that big sloggy
00:39:08
mess you know and you don't wake up the
00:39:11
next day going [ __ ] did I say something
00:39:13
stupid what did I say what property did
00:39:14
I damage this time exactly you know so I
00:39:17
don't have that issue I don't have
00:39:18
headaches in the morning great so um
00:39:21
that's cool but yeah I usually end up
00:39:22
playing I mean like I just played at uh
00:39:24
wild Foods Festival down in H poer it
00:39:28
was amazing and it was I I ended up
00:39:31
befriending a a sort of country band
00:39:34
called The harmonic resonators basically
00:39:36
a family from the Y and um really lovely
00:39:41
we just ended up back in a hotel room
00:39:43
just songs stories till 1:00 in the
00:39:46
morning with all harmonizing vocals with
00:39:49
you know like the parents were like in
00:39:51
the 60s right down to the young sort of
00:39:53
18-year-old guitar player and we just
00:39:55
like I'd play him one of my new songs
00:39:58
they'd play me one of these then we'
00:40:00
play a Neil Young song then do a a
00:40:02
country standard but in too I mean that
00:40:04
for me is the perfect night out after a
00:40:06
gig you know like just music it's just
00:40:08
music you know [ __ ] you're in a good
00:40:10
place aren't you yeah it's cool man I
00:40:12
love it I love it I love music you know
00:40:14
I love humans yeah you know and and and
00:40:17
um yeah I love aging as well like I'm
00:40:19
I'm one year younger than you I'm I'm
00:40:22
exactly the same like there's there's
00:40:23
there's nothing yeah I mean you can get
00:40:24
away with bigger property damager in
00:40:26
your 20s yeah if if you're a dude in
00:40:28
your 50s doing it it's kind of lame it's
00:40:30
just embarrassing it's really
00:40:31
embarrassing it's really lame and also I
00:40:33
just I've just seen too many of my
00:40:35
friends like um yeah smash themselves so
00:40:39
hard they either die or they or they
00:40:42
they end up living alone and it's a
00:40:45
really it's sad it's sad you know and I
00:40:48
I was just early on I was like I do not
00:40:50
want to do that and because I had
00:40:51
children later in life I was 40 when my
00:40:54
first son was born um I've got stick
00:40:57
around you know and I want to be there
00:40:59
to watch them as long as I possibly can
00:41:01
so that means looking after myself you
00:41:03
know it's a it's a tough one man it's
00:41:05
like it's that's like it's all a way of
00:41:08
not looking at yourself ultimately it's
00:41:12
like running away from yourself for as
00:41:14
long as you possibly can but ultimately
00:41:17
those chickens are going to come time to
00:41:18
roast or if they don't you're going to
00:41:20
kill yourself you know like and you've
00:41:22
got I and I totally understand why
00:41:25
people do it because it's pain
00:41:27
management it's self man cuz life is
00:41:30
tough you know life is tough and we've
00:41:33
all got traumatic experiences from our
00:41:34
childhood and we've all got you know
00:41:37
things that hold on to us and crazy
00:41:40
ideas about the world and crazy ideas
00:41:42
about ourselves that were constantly
00:41:44
battling but I actually found that it
00:41:48
was easier to to face them head on if I
00:41:51
was straight and I think that comes from
00:41:54
the fact that when she had first started
00:41:56
cuz cuz as we go back to the start of
00:41:58
this interview we were total nerds about
00:42:00
being the tightest band being the best
00:42:02
band how do you do that so we when we
00:42:04
were first started we experimented with
00:42:06
every drug known to man
00:42:09
LSD uh mushrooms Cactus uh pot alcohol
00:42:14
everything and we what we do is we
00:42:16
record it on video and then watch it
00:42:18
back when we're straight and go well
00:42:20
that was [ __ ] even if we thought it was
00:42:22
good at the time and we're laughing on
00:42:25
stage we'd watch it and have the
00:42:27
evidence and go that's not good and then
00:42:29
so we basically went the only way we can
00:42:32
play is to play straight be completely
00:42:34
sober and that makes it even more scary
00:42:37
you know it's like wow this is quite an
00:42:38
unreal situation like jumping out of a
00:42:40
plane really sober you know and it's
00:42:42
like it it but it means that the rush is
00:42:45
actually bigger you know because it's
00:42:47
like w I'm seeing it for what it is you
00:42:49
know like so and then we and then you
00:42:52
can reward yourself afterwards obviously
00:42:54
Phil our guitarist had a little tune
00:42:56
with finding you know Dutch courage and
00:42:58
alcohol but he sorted that out yeah
00:43:00
actually we'll get to that shortly but
00:43:02
your um movie that came out which is
00:43:04
incredible it's it's actually on YouTube
00:43:06
you can watch it for free now beautiful
00:43:07
machine um came out in 2012 yeah Phil
00:43:10
talks about um there was like a band
00:43:12
intervention he was getting wasted to
00:43:14
perform as a like a mask and the the you
00:43:16
other three guys like sat him down and
00:43:18
said hey bro this has got to stop and
00:43:19
credit to him he did stop he did he went
00:43:22
and had went straight to AA and then he
00:43:24
still does you know I mean and it's 20
00:43:27
plus years he's been sober and um and I
00:43:31
think his life's so much more improved
00:43:34
because of it you know his relationships
00:43:36
are better um he's got two kids now they
00:43:39
love him he loves them and he when he
00:43:42
does play he's amazing he's a great
00:43:44
guitar player and I think he plays
00:43:46
better now than he ever did and he's
00:43:49
completely facing it head on you know
00:43:51
and straight and this is a guy that when
00:43:53
we first saw him play he was in the
00:43:56
Onslow College High School Rock Band uh
00:43:59
and he spent the whole show with his
00:44:01
back turned to the audience cuz he
00:44:03
couldn't face the audience but he loved
00:44:06
music and that's the thing about this
00:44:07
this this this art it's like it it
00:44:10
attracts really sensitive human beings
00:44:12
and then puts him in a really un unusual
00:44:15
situation you know like it's such an
00:44:17
interesting story I I think I he the
00:44:19
same thing about Dobbin when he when he
00:44:21
start out with the dudes yeah I could
00:44:22
imagine same thing back to the crowd
00:44:24
yeah because not a great stage presence
00:44:27
yeah because you're just it's like whoa
00:44:29
all these people are looking at me and
00:44:30
you spent your whole school life trying
00:44:32
to be invisible you know or Dodge the
00:44:35
Dodge it all and all of a sudden you're
00:44:37
going look at me look at me cuz I mean
00:44:38
we're on a stage with a whole bunch of
00:44:40
lights and a big PA so of course you're
00:44:42
saying look at me but it's he was
00:44:44
attracted to the music then had to deal
00:44:46
with what came with that you know yeah
00:44:49
yeah yeah so yeah so this beautiful
00:44:51
machine uh the shead movie um a big sort
00:44:55
of central part of that is the American
00:44:56
Experience M um so so when was when so
00:45:00
um the Twin Towers thing the um you the
00:45:02
the terrorist terrorism attacks and the
00:45:04
states that was um September 11 2001
00:45:06
yeah when were you guys trying to break
00:45:09
the American markets so we literally uh
00:45:12
were two week when that happened we were
00:45:13
living in La only we'd only been there
00:45:16
for 2 weeks uh starting our
00:45:19
pre-production with a producer called
00:45:20
Josh Abraham and um and that's that
00:45:24
happened and um I think Carl had
00:45:27
actually already he was that happened
00:45:30
while Carl was in a plane flight back to
00:45:31
New Zealand because his grandmother was
00:45:35
very ill so he had to go home so it was
00:45:38
just me Phil and Tom and uh and I I was
00:45:43
we were in the Oakwood apartments for
00:45:45
anyone who doesn't know what an Oakwood
00:45:46
Apartments is it's basically where all
00:45:48
the people trying to make her they stick
00:45:50
them in this place called the Oakwood
00:45:52
Apartments a beige Hotel nightmare right
00:45:55
and it's like I I at that place I hung
00:45:57
out with the guy who played J Jar Binks
00:45:59
met Malcolm in the Middle blah blah blah
00:46:02
you know it's just it's the sort of
00:46:03
place that that happens at you know but
00:46:05
I just I remember W being woken up by
00:46:07
Tom one morning in this apartment saying
00:46:10
doing on the TV World War II's just
00:46:13
started and I turn on the TV second
00:46:15
plane goes into the World Trade Center
00:46:18
so I instantly think Tom's sang the
00:46:21
truth World War III started it was a
00:46:23
crazy day it was a crazy day so I
00:46:26
basically ran first thing I did was run
00:46:28
down to the 7-Eleven buy a packet of
00:46:29
cigarettes cuz I'd given up again at
00:46:32
that point after two years and then I
00:46:35
went straight back I need a packet of
00:46:36
cigarettes World War III started I think
00:46:38
I had one vum left from uh from from
00:46:42
some medication T that uh and then went
00:46:45
right what the [ __ ] are we doing let's
00:46:46
go home but we couldn't go home because
00:46:48
all the flights were grounded all around
00:46:49
the world you know so we basically had
00:46:51
to yeah be in America while they were
00:46:54
dealing with what had just happened to
00:46:56
them and every time you'd be walking
00:46:57
down the street and you hear a car
00:46:59
backfire everyone's like oh running into
00:47:00
Shops and and then all the American
00:47:03
flags went up on the on the thing and
00:47:05
everyone rallied around the president
00:47:07
who at the time was George Bush and and
00:47:10
it was it was really interesting to
00:47:12
watch the psychology of that country
00:47:14
just
00:47:15
shift and uh into a sort of more warlike
00:47:19
mode and uh and be trying to make a
00:47:22
record after trying to crack that market
00:47:25
so from when we were first kids cuz I
00:47:27
mean it's the home of like so many bands
00:47:29
I love you know it's like Metallica and
00:47:32
Slayer and especially at that time and
00:47:34
it was like we want to go there you know
00:47:36
like that's where it's the home of metal
00:47:38
and the home of rock and well it's such
00:47:40
a big Market as well it's well yeah we
00:47:42
would think of that we just wanted to be
00:47:43
we wanted to go there and prove to all
00:47:46
these people in America that we were
00:47:48
just as good as that you know like
00:47:50
that's that was what it was probably our
00:47:52
management were thinking it was a bigger
00:47:54
Market was great but um we just wanted
00:47:56
to go to the home of rock and roll and
00:47:58
be a great rock and roll man you know so
00:48:00
so we were there I mean but but we
00:48:02
younger when we younger signed a
00:48:04
terrible contract with a German metal
00:48:07
label called Noise Records who we signed
00:48:09
with because they had they' signed bands
00:48:11
like Creator and a few speed metal bands
00:48:14
that we loved and so it was like yeah we
00:48:15
signed a noise records and uh but it
00:48:17
ended up being a nightmare it was just
00:48:19
like you can't you can't be released
00:48:22
unless it's by us in America but they
00:48:23
didn't have any way of releasing Us in
00:48:25
America for 3 album so we had to give
00:48:27
them three albums which it's about 5 six
00:48:30
years until we could then go and Shop
00:48:33
ourselves in America so we finally got
00:48:35
out of that contract signed this thing
00:48:37
with a with a production company and
00:48:40
then went over to start this big thing
00:48:42
and and then that happened and I was
00:48:44
like oh my
00:48:46
gosh yeah and it was it became more
00:48:49
apparent over the 6 months that we were
00:48:50
making that record when I'd go shopping
00:48:52
at Ralphs which is their version of New
00:48:54
World um uh and some dude oh you look
00:48:57
like you're in a band you're like yeah
00:48:59
yeah I'm in a band what's name your band
00:49:01
oh she had and it was like literally
00:49:04
eyes would glaze over and they'd walk
00:49:05
off and it was like oh yeah right this
00:49:07
is not going to fly well yeah there are
00:49:09
only being going back to the beginning
00:49:10
the movie June totally yeah where it's
00:49:13
um yeah you you named the bad Band
00:49:15
shihad After you what was actually Jihad
00:49:18
so it's exactly the same same thing so
00:49:21
then um but you you you dug your heels
00:49:23
and there you didn't want to change the
00:49:24
band name like you six months uh and you
00:49:28
know I I remember coming back and doing
00:49:30
a big day out I remember um Mike Patton
00:49:33
from faith and Mo who we toured within
00:49:34
Europe prior to that come up to me and
00:49:37
went Johnny if you change your name I'm
00:49:38
going to find you I'm going to [ __ ]
00:49:40
slit your
00:49:42
throat and uh and then um the guy from a
00:49:46
tribe Conquest coming up and saying hey
00:49:47
man I don't know man but in Arabic that
00:49:50
means struggle and that's a good name I
00:49:51
think you should keep it and it's like
00:49:53
yeah yeah cool cool and then Peter hook
00:49:55
you know bass play from [ __ ] Joy
00:49:57
Division of new order saying to me I
00:50:00
actually understand why you'd have to
00:50:02
change your name you know like I mean
00:50:04
that's just not going to
00:50:05
fly he have a line of
00:50:12
coke it's all these ridiculous
00:50:14
situations that I found myself in but
00:50:16
you know we were the ones who had to
00:50:17
make that decision I was it was
00:50:19
basically me and ky say n Tom and Tom
00:50:22
who's definitely more business minded
00:50:23
going this isn't going to work unless we
00:50:26
change our name
00:50:27
and Phil who was just mortally fearful
00:50:31
of touring the Southern States of
00:50:32
America with a name like she had he's
00:50:35
got a massive he's got massive anxiety
00:50:36
so he was like I don't want to be shot
00:50:38
on
00:50:39
stage and I thought initially oh that's
00:50:42
just over the top but it's America being
00:50:44
in America yeah Confederate flag States
00:50:47
you never know so it became more and
00:50:50
more apparent if we want to try that
00:50:52
American dream we would have to make
00:50:54
some compromise and passfire at that
00:50:56
point was the biggest
00:50:58
song that we'd ever had and we just went
00:51:01
oh man at least it's got some sort of
00:51:03
thing to us and it was just I just felt
00:51:05
awful about the whole thing it just was
00:51:07
like well it's like asking someone at
00:51:10
you know 26 years old John you are now
00:51:12
Xavier or you know John you've got to
00:51:14
change your name to something else it's
00:51:16
like no that's my name you know like so
00:51:19
but I caved finally and um I regret it
00:51:23
instantly you know like I I didn't did
00:51:25
you just didn't sit com with you no it
00:51:27
didn't it didn't sit comfortably with me
00:51:29
but I did understand why at the same
00:51:31
time you know like I to there was a
00:51:33
logic to it feels like a a lose lose
00:51:36
situation like you're damned if you do
00:51:37
damned if you don't yeah I think on that
00:51:39
movie I say [ __ ] A or [ __ ] b i it
00:51:41
literally was that was the options you
00:51:44
know and it was like it was no there was
00:51:45
no easy answer there was no historical
00:51:48
context we could look back and go oh
00:51:50
that happened to the who but it didn't
00:51:53
you know it never happened to any other
00:51:54
band you know yeah yeah there's no
00:51:56
blueprint there's no blueprint so we had
00:51:58
to make it up as we went along yeah
00:52:00
management pushing hard record company
00:52:02
pushing hard production company pushing
00:52:04
hard booking agents pushing hard for a
00:52:06
change when you've got that many sort of
00:52:08
knowledgeable PE knowledgeable with um
00:52:10
EC comers um saying it's the right thing
00:52:13
to do then I yeah I can see why you
00:52:14
eventually cave I think you probably did
00:52:16
well to dig your heels in for six months
00:52:18
I did and I I think I did and then and
00:52:20
then ultimately it was 2 years of going
00:52:23
okay cuz this
00:52:25
band whether that was a good or bad
00:52:27
decision it was I I you know it was what
00:52:29
it was we're really good when we're The
00:52:32
Underdogs and I think some of the best
00:52:34
shows we ever played was when we were
00:52:36
under the name pacify because we'd have
00:52:38
a whole crowd going she she you know
00:52:41
like which is cool and but it was like
00:52:45
we wanted to prove that we were still
00:52:46
the [ __ ] kicking band you know and we
00:52:49
had a couple of great songs on that
00:52:50
record as well like run is a really good
00:52:53
record and comfort me is a great song um
00:52:57
but yeah so it was we basically really
00:53:00
knapped ourselves and we had to work
00:53:02
hard to to win people back you know oh
00:53:06
in in terms of like New Zealand and
00:53:07
Australian audiences yeah New Zealand
00:53:09
and Australia which is which is where we
00:53:11
were predominantly known and England as
00:53:13
well before that happened we just sold
00:53:15
out the ocean and downtown London it was
00:53:18
massive and it was like and then we had
00:53:22
to change our name and it's like a
00:53:23
branding nightmare from a business
00:53:26
perspective you know like it was it was
00:53:28
like you built this this name and all
00:53:31
the experiences that went along with it
00:53:33
over 20 whatever years and then just
00:53:35
went now we're nless you know so it was
00:53:38
just it was it was hard
00:53:41
work yeah but do you think um I mean if
00:53:43
the American Experience was different
00:53:45
and it had worked and it had been wild
00:53:47
successful you'd look at it differently
00:53:49
now well I'll tell you the story this is
00:53:51
this is a story when I met um Mark
00:53:53
McGrath from Sugar Ray you remember that
00:53:56
yeah now I just want to fly yeah I would
00:53:59
have expected to have really disliked
00:54:01
that guy cuz I didn't like his music but
00:54:03
that's never the case usually the bands
00:54:05
that you hate are usually the nicely you
00:54:07
and me are very different I was a big
00:54:08
Sugar Ray fan yeah well I didn't like
00:54:09
them at all so I meet Mark grath and he
00:54:12
instantly goes he breaks the ice by
00:54:14
going hey Johnny I bet you hate my band
00:54:16
and I was
00:54:19
like I was like I just liked him from
00:54:22
that moment on and we got on so well and
00:54:25
he said to me I've heard your mic play
00:54:27
me your songs and and I've played them
00:54:29
things like um walls off which went on
00:54:31
pcif fire and all these songs I was
00:54:33
writing on acoustic guitar and he
00:54:35
went wow this this this country is going
00:54:38
to break you man and I I was like what
00:54:41
he goes I was like why does he say that
00:54:42
he goes cuz they're beautiful songs but
00:54:46
this is a really ugly world and a really
00:54:48
ugly industry and you've got to be tough
00:54:52
you know and you're a sensitive dude and
00:54:55
he was the he was the one he wasn't
00:54:57
trying to put me off it but he's he was
00:54:59
warning me home truths yeah yeah he was
00:55:00
warning me and and in in a way if that
00:55:04
record had taken off I'm not sure if I'd
00:55:07
still be here you know like here ISM
00:55:09
what I might have been dead you know
00:55:11
like it might have broken me it might
00:55:13
have made me totally disillusioned with
00:55:14
the world I mean you saw what it did to
00:55:16
Kurt Cobain you know saw what it did to
00:55:19
amyn housee yeah there's a reason why
00:55:21
sensitive talented human beings get
00:55:24
crushed by that industry
00:55:27
because it's tough man it's like art
00:55:29
meeting Commerce boom boom boom and it
00:55:33
crushes you you know and it was just I
00:55:36
just I always think about that
00:55:38
conversation I had with him and he
00:55:40
wasn't he wasn't discouraging me he was
00:55:42
he was a fan he loved the songs but he
00:55:44
said be careful you know like and I
00:55:47
think that's I think I think he was
00:55:49
right yeah and the um so The Viper Room
00:55:53
show um this is amazing so
00:55:56
you just didn't ey roll it's on the your
00:55:59
beautiful machine do so Viper room's
00:56:00
famous club in um sort of Melrose area
00:56:02
of Hollywood area of La Phoenix passed
00:56:05
away outside yeah him and Anthony Kus
00:56:08
used to hang out there all the time it
00:56:09
was like a I think it was Johnny Dip's
00:56:11
Club loved it so you guys had like an
00:56:13
industry showcase concert there so it's
00:56:16
um Pacifier on stage yeah and just a
00:56:19
whole lot of um Executives um you so
00:56:22
what's the purpose of that is it just to
00:56:24
basically shop you around to find a
00:56:25
label that's going to sign absolutely it
00:56:27
was so there was lots of people from
00:56:29
different record companies going this is
00:56:31
the latest darling of this production
00:56:33
company let's have a look and they were
00:56:35
they'd heard some songs so there was
00:56:37
talk of lots of money in that
00:56:39
room and the night before that show I'd
00:56:44
uh talked to my friend John Zuko who was
00:56:46
an anr at polygram records which is no
00:56:48
longer uh in in Australia now John Zuko
00:56:52
is a funny [ __ ] but he's very
00:56:55
Australian and and he told me that joke
00:56:58
the police horse joke right which I as a
00:57:01
kiwi thought was hilarious by the way
00:57:04
stop you right there so uh yeah there
00:57:07
was there's some technical difficulties
00:57:08
on stage so there's a moment of sort of
00:57:10
like dead air or whatever you want to
00:57:11
call yeah basically yeah my guitar's Out
00:57:13
Of Tune we're using a different guitar
00:57:14
tech we're all like you know we but the
00:57:18
the production company had like
00:57:19
manicured us put clothes on us um told
00:57:24
us what the set list is and some of that
00:57:26
set list included me playing acoustic
00:57:29
guitar in the middle of a of a Sheard
00:57:31
show right should never listen to the
00:57:34
rec company I can see what they were
00:57:35
they were thinking though like um you
00:57:37
know you're a very very charismatic um
00:57:39
front person so they obviously thought
00:57:41
this guy's got the star power yeah let's
00:57:44
have a bit of both yeah so but but the
00:57:46
context
00:57:48
was it was only a few months after
00:57:51
September the
00:57:52
11th and um you could not joke about
00:57:56
firemen or police officers because they
00:57:59
were the heroes yeah they were held in
00:58:00
such high esteem absolutely they were
00:58:01
the heroes of 9/11 and I totally
00:58:05
understand that but I was just the it
00:58:08
was like my guitar's are tune I'm
00:58:09
standing here like a a dog I heard this
00:58:12
great joke
00:58:13
yesterday and just not even thinking
00:58:17
about the context of where I was or
00:58:20
anything I just thought this is a funny
00:58:21
joke so I tell the police horse joke can
00:58:23
i t it on this yes so the police horse
00:58:24
joke is what's the only animal with a
00:58:27
[ __ ] halfway up its
00:58:29
back and and the answer is a police
00:58:32
horse right which is it's totally
00:58:35
ludicrous and it's really funny it's
00:58:38
especially funny in an Australian accent
00:58:40
as well because it's just so Australian
00:58:42
you know but um but literally after that
00:58:46
joke it just was dead silent and all
00:58:49
these people started moving to the exit
00:58:51
they just walked out and it was like
00:58:54
it's like a scene out of the office or
00:58:55
something and I'm looked over and my
00:58:57
band mates who who were waiting to go
00:58:59
back on stage just hiding under
00:59:02
towels they're hiding under towels going
00:59:05
could I please disappear you know like
00:59:08
and I was like could I please disappear
00:59:11
and it was just the worst it was the
00:59:13
worst night and then afterwards all even
00:59:16
our production company just disappeared
00:59:18
and like we went to the club where they
00:59:21
had gone and trying to text them and
00:59:23
they weren't answering their phones and
00:59:25
it was like oh my god what have we done
00:59:28
and it was just the worst night I
00:59:30
literally for about 6 months afterwards
00:59:32
I could I found it very hard to go to
00:59:34
sleep cuz I'd go and then just think
00:59:36
about that moment and
00:59:40
go um you can laugh about it now I I uh
00:59:44
emailed you yday say by the way I
00:59:45
thought the police force joke was funny
00:59:46
and you replied say it was like a $2
00:59:48
million joke oh easy easily $2 million
00:59:51
there was bigger figures than that you
00:59:52
know like being bandied around it was
00:59:55
like SP it and one one so so the van
00:59:57
ride back to the hotel uh with your
00:59:59
bandmates how does that go oh man are
01:00:02
you apologizing are they tearing strips
01:00:04
off you oh yeah yeah that were so angry
01:00:06
at me they were so angry at me yeah yeah
01:00:09
yeah and it was yeah it it that that
01:00:12
that can they laugh about it now oh
01:00:13
absolutely absolutely absolutely they
01:00:16
can but um and you know what I I'm sort
01:00:20
of quite Zen about it it's like the
01:00:22
universe was protecting me from
01:00:23
something there I reckon I honestly
01:00:26
believe that like it's self- sabotage in
01:00:27
a way isn't it I honestly think I
01:00:29
wouldn't have done all these interesting
01:00:30
things that I did afterwards if if I'd
01:00:33
gotten all I all my dreams handed me to
01:00:35
h a PL I wouldn't have I wouldn't have
01:00:39
uh met all the people I've met I
01:00:41
wouldn't have been married in cartoon I
01:00:43
wouldn't have you know worked with these
01:00:45
amazing musicians from another part of
01:00:46
the world I wouldn't have done that all
01:00:48
you know like I just think I I honestly
01:00:52
believe that that was the universe going
01:00:55
this path's not for you you know and it
01:00:58
meant that I've actually done so much
01:01:00
more interesting stuff that I would
01:01:01
never have imagined
01:01:03
doing and uh yeah I've got a pretty Zen
01:01:06
sort of outlook on it and it and and it
01:01:07
is a [ __ ] funny joke yeah isn't it
01:01:10
funny though something that at the time
01:01:12
in for evidently 6 months afterwards can
01:01:14
seem like the worst thing in the world
01:01:15
you look back like with the benefit of a
01:01:16
lot of hindsight and it's um it's it's a
01:01:19
great part of your tempestry it's a a
01:01:22
really interesting story without a doubt
01:01:24
without a doubt I mean it's the funny
01:01:26
thing is when when John Zuko told me
01:01:28
that joke before he said police horse I
01:01:30
was imagining like either a badger or a
01:01:32
skunk with a vagina and it's
01:01:35
back and I just had this weird image you
01:01:38
know like and then it was like and then
01:01:39
he told me the punch I was like Jesus
01:01:43
would it have been any better would it
01:01:44
have S if you said [ __ ] halfway up
01:01:46
its b
01:01:48
n ass C no no just doesn't work doesn't
01:01:52
work and so when was the last time you
01:01:54
saw beautiful machine uh probably at the
01:01:57
actually yeah it was at the premiere
01:02:00
yeah I mean it was it's a hard watch for
01:02:02
me because it's so I mean who who who
01:02:05
else gets to sit there and look at all
01:02:08
the bad fashion choices they've ever
01:02:09
made all the most ridiculous things
01:02:12
they've ever
01:02:13
said uh and it's ws and all it's so ws
01:02:17
and all who has to who does that I had
01:02:20
Annie circus Golem sitting behind me and
01:02:23
my mom and while I'm saying all this
01:02:25
ridiculous [ __ ] wearing all this
01:02:26
ridiculous [ __ ] it was hard and it's
01:02:29
hard watching all those mistakes put
01:02:32
together but at the same time it's it's
01:02:35
such a great documentary because of that
01:02:37
you know like that's why it's a good
01:02:39
movie yeah but I don't need to see it
01:02:41
I've lived it I've seen it once that's
01:02:44
enough you know like yeah I wonder if
01:02:46
it's it would be even harder for you to
01:02:47
watch now because um yeah you lost your
01:02:49
mom during during Co and you were
01:02:52
separated by distance um absolutely and
01:02:54
she um go she she's in all the all the
01:02:57
all the she had parents are in this
01:02:58
documentary and they're so kind and
01:03:00
supportive so encouraging of you guys
01:03:02
absolutely I can't imagine how I don't
01:03:04
know uh thankfully my mom's still alive
01:03:08
um but yeah I don't know how that would
01:03:10
make me feel if I was in your position
01:03:11
watching it now like probably just
01:03:13
sadness really yeah I I think it would
01:03:14
be hard to watch just because um yeah I
01:03:17
mean the circumstance of my I mean it'
01:03:20
be cuz both you know like I lost my dad
01:03:23
after that movie was made and then it
01:03:25
was hard watch it when it first came out
01:03:27
but it was sort of like it's it's like
01:03:30
hard but also sort of lovely to see him
01:03:33
alive again you know so maybe it would
01:03:35
be nice in that way but it' be because
01:03:37
of the circumstance of my mom's passing
01:03:38
which was basically I was in lockdown in
01:03:40
Melbourne and she was in lockdown in
01:03:42
Wellington and there was no way I could
01:03:44
even get back so my my sister had to
01:03:46
hold up a phone so I could talk to her
01:03:49
and say goodbye and in fact because I
01:03:51
was the the the Mommy's boy her little
01:03:54
favorite she was she had held on in a
01:03:56
coma for like 13 days and it was they
01:04:00
got to the point where my brother and
01:04:01
sister said you're going to have to talk
01:04:02
to her so I had to say Mom you've done a
01:04:05
great job we're going to be okay you can
01:04:09
let go so I was that guy but I did it
01:04:11
over a
01:04:12
phone so that was [ __ ] tough because
01:04:15
it cuz you need to be there you know you
01:04:17
need to be there to see it to feel it to
01:04:21
know that that person's gone and to me
01:04:23
it still seems quite surreal and almost
01:04:25
almost unreal man it's brutal I it's
01:04:28
only a 3our flight but you may as well
01:04:30
have been on the moon absolutely there
01:04:31
was no way through it I I mean wasn't
01:04:34
only a lockdown here it was lockdown in
01:04:36
Melbourne so there was my brain was
01:04:37
instantly like oh if I fly up to Ken I I
01:04:40
can't do that all all the all the states
01:04:42
are closed off to each other as well so
01:04:45
I couldn't even find a way out and I
01:04:47
just had to wear it and then on top of
01:04:49
that to rub salt into the wound my my
01:04:51
brother and sister held off the memorial
01:04:54
for 3 months so that could come into
01:04:56
lockdown we came out of lockdown 2 days
01:04:58
before the memorial went into lockdown
01:05:00
again so I had to watch that on an iPad
01:05:02
iPhone as well so um it was just
01:05:06
completely surreal how did you feel at
01:05:08
that time just sadness guilt anger oh
01:05:10
super sad you know what when I fight cuz
01:05:12
they they saved some of the ashes for me
01:05:14
to take down to Island Bay where we grew
01:05:16
up so I could save goodbye so when I
01:05:18
finally did get
01:05:20
over I didn't know how I felt until I
01:05:22
was driving out to Island Bay I could
01:05:23
see Island Bay coming up and then just
01:05:25
started crying I went I just felt guilty
01:05:28
for not being there you know cuz she
01:05:30
really after dead passed away she really
01:05:32
relied on me and my wife Donna cuz we we
01:05:36
gentle with her gentle with her and and
01:05:38
took her in and and made her go it's
01:05:41
okay you know and we actually took her
01:05:42
over to cartoon and she came and watched
01:05:44
us get married over there and she you
01:05:46
know we had a moment we we're standing
01:05:48
on the Blue Nile going and she tuned to
01:05:50
me go Dad would never believe where we
01:05:53
are right now you know and we were
01:05:54
having cup of tea and I was like like
01:05:56
Yay we've got given her something to
01:05:58
look forward to and then your grandson
01:06:00
was born and yay and so so I just felt
01:06:04
really guilty that I wasn't there but
01:06:06
there was no way I could get there you
01:06:07
know that was the that was the biggest
01:06:09
feeling was like just guilt not being
01:06:12
there to say it's okay yeah yeah should
01:06:15
yeah I'm sure yeah there's nothing you
01:06:16
can do about it should understand you
01:06:17
can see it from this um this movie like
01:06:19
she's so proud of you are there's just
01:06:22
so much so much unconditional love there
01:06:24
yeah totally toally you know I've done
01:06:26
plenty of therapy with that as well
01:06:27
because because great having
01:06:29
unconditional love but Dad was the guy
01:06:31
that said pull your [ __ ] head in when
01:06:32
you act when I behaved badly or acted
01:06:35
like a dick you know so I needed that
01:06:38
balance so when dad passed away having
01:06:39
mom going oh there there have a cup of
01:06:41
tea you can do no wrong it it's almost a
01:06:44
little bit tough you know like it's like
01:06:47
cuz you're not being seen for what you
01:06:50
really are you know and I needed I
01:06:53
needed that dose of reality as well yeah
01:06:56
when did when what's your relationship
01:06:57
with therapy when did you start having
01:06:59
uh I think after I mean yeah I mean for
01:07:02
me um I've had BS with anxiety um so at
01:07:07
the end of General Electric um I'd been
01:07:09
we'd been working we played a Million
01:07:11
shows that year I'd turn into a rock and
01:07:13
roll animal I was basically throwing
01:07:15
guitars at Guitar tchs because I just
01:07:18
wanted the band to be the best band ever
01:07:20
and it was just eyes on the prize and I
01:07:23
was like I was but I didn't realize I
01:07:25
was burnt out by the end of 2 years of
01:07:27
touring and I basically walked into a
01:07:29
shop down Chapel Street in Melbourne
01:07:31
where I was living and walked out of it
01:07:35
and thought I was on the other side of
01:07:36
the road I thought i' when I'd walked
01:07:38
and I was on the other side of the road
01:07:39
so and then just had this huge bout of
01:07:41
vertigo cuz it was a real non-reality
01:07:44
but what I was having was a panic attack
01:07:46
I didn't realize i' never had one before
01:07:48
and that started a bout of panic attacks
01:07:51
which got really bad I was also
01:07:53
self-medicating with drugs and alcohol
01:07:55
whole not looking after myself ended up
01:07:58
basically burning out coming back to New
01:08:00
Zealand my dad looked after me and my um
01:08:03
first partner and um yeah I I basically
01:08:07
had to do therapy through that I did
01:08:11
pull myself through that and it was good
01:08:14
uh with a lot of help from family and
01:08:16
friends and therapy um and then it
01:08:19
wasn't until recently um uh where I've
01:08:22
actually gone to see a cognitive
01:08:23
behavioral therapist but that's for
01:08:25
something completely different that was
01:08:27
I got a CO complication which turned my
01:08:29
ttis up to [ __ ] 12 uh and that was
01:08:33
crazy and um was that just ringing in
01:08:35
the ears so ringing in the ears which
01:08:37
I'd had since I was 19 cuz I'm standing
01:08:39
next to a [ __ ] loud China symbol
01:08:41
playing a loud rock band but it was
01:08:42
always manageable go and see a live band
01:08:44
Fu my ears are ringing real bad have a
01:08:46
nice quiet day the next day almost
01:08:49
imperceptible and then so uh I played I
01:08:54
basically caught Co
01:08:56
uh 2 weeks after catching Co I got woken
01:08:59
up out of a dream with a basic car alarm
01:09:02
going off in my head it was like I've
01:09:03
been to see mohead and sat my head in
01:09:05
the PA you know and it was like but it
01:09:07
was like it was so loud I was just like
01:09:10
[ __ ] what's going on man and then I
01:09:13
literally didn't sleep for 36 hours cuz
01:09:16
it was so loud I ended up in A&E out in
01:09:20
uh out an Eastern suburb where we were
01:09:22
living at the time and they had to me um
01:09:25
yeah like uh vum and zopiclone to sleep
01:09:29
cuz I couldn't sleep because it was just
01:09:30
so loud and then I went to osic throw
01:09:33
specialist and blah blah blah and it was
01:09:35
like one inoc tho specialist said
01:09:38
there's there's data coming out of
01:09:39
America if you had pre-existing tonight
01:09:41
us if you caught Co you got a 40% chance
01:09:43
of it turning it up and we don't know
01:09:45
how long it sticks around for I suggest
01:09:48
you go and see a cognitive behavioral
01:09:49
therapist because nothing I do is going
01:09:51
to make it because it's the sound's not
01:09:53
coming from your ears it's coming from
01:09:54
your brain so what's happened
01:09:57
is I've got I've got if you look at my
01:10:00
the graph of my hearing because I've
01:10:01
stand next to symbols and stuff the top
01:10:04
end of all that all the siblings it's
01:10:07
it's been it's been worn out right so Co
01:10:10
comes in decreases your overall volume
01:10:15
your brain goes [ __ ] he's lost all of
01:10:18
his top end hearing I've going to have
01:10:20
to turn that up so he doesn't get eaten
01:10:21
by a lion it's literally a survival
01:10:24
mechanism so my brain's going I'm
01:10:27
protecting you here but I've got to then
01:10:30
train it to go I'm actually safe and
01:10:33
you're actually making my life [ __ ]
01:10:35
hell at the moment you know so even now
01:10:37
I've got it you know and it's focused
01:10:39
it's attention based so if I think about
01:10:41
it it TS it up as well you know because
01:10:44
I'm it's Focus where your focus is so
01:10:47
cognitive behavioral therapy is great
01:10:48
because it's basically teaching you to
01:10:50
be present teaching you not to
01:10:53
catastrophize and go [ __ ] it's loud now
01:10:56
my life's going to be hell and my career
01:10:59
which is there were some dark days in
01:11:00
there and I was going I'm not sure if I
01:11:02
can live with this you know it was
01:11:04
loud and um so cognitive behavior
01:11:07
therapy was great because it was not
01:11:09
only dealing with that it was dealing
01:11:11
with any sort of you know faulty sort of
01:11:14
thought patterns that you've developed
01:11:16
through your childhood you know things
01:11:18
like cup half empty stuff you know
01:11:21
crystal ball gazing Imagining the worst
01:11:24
outcome overing
01:11:26
yeah and but but but writing a future
01:11:28
that's not even [ __ ] real you know we
01:11:30
all can do it but if you can identify
01:11:33
that you're doing it it takes the sting
01:11:35
out of it and it instantly makes you go
01:11:37
actually I'm just going to be present
01:11:38
right now and the future will be what
01:11:40
it's going to be you know so it was
01:11:43
something that I needed to probably do
01:11:44
anyway so that's that's my latest B of
01:11:47
therapy yeah a therapist I saw she said
01:11:49
when you're having those thoughts you
01:11:50
should um ask and and you you catch
01:11:53
yourself you should ask yourself is this
01:11:55
um is this truthful and is this helpful
01:11:58
and then try and park it to one side
01:12:00
it's easier said than done but but but
01:12:02
but I think con behavioral therapy is
01:12:03
really good like that way because it's
01:12:05
really it really hones down to well
01:12:07
these are TW his his 12 classic versions
01:12:10
of faulty thinking do you do some people
01:12:13
do a and you know C some people do all
01:12:16
of them some people just do one of them
01:12:18
some but if you identify that that's
01:12:20
what you're doing you can just step back
01:12:22
from yourself give yourself a breather
01:12:24
go actually that's [ __ ] and then
01:12:26
just and then just come back to being
01:12:28
present you know and that's actually the
01:12:30
gift is being present which is why I'm
01:12:32
attracted to music because I've probably
01:12:34
always thought like that and music makes
01:12:36
you be present because you can't be
01:12:39
anywhere else when you've got you know a
01:12:41
thousand people in front of you and
01:12:43
you're playing this thing and you don't
01:12:44
want to [ __ ] up and you're thinking
01:12:45
about the story you're telling you've
01:12:47
got to be right there right then you
01:12:48
can't be thinking about the bills you
01:12:49
got to pay can't be thinking about that
01:12:51
joke that you told in La that lost your
01:12:53
$2 million you can't you can't afford to
01:12:55
do that you've got to be right there and
01:12:58
that's why so many sensitive people are
01:12:59
attracted to Art and music because we
01:13:02
microfocus and we stop worrying about
01:13:04
the future we stop worrying about the
01:13:06
past and we we're right there you know
01:13:08
and it's a really
01:13:10
powerful um way of of doing mindfulness
01:13:13
without having to learn how to meditate
01:13:14
or anything like that you know how's
01:13:16
yeah how's your mental health now how
01:13:18
are you today you good today very good
01:13:20
very very positive um I've still got to
01:13:23
work out mixes with uh the mixer of my
01:13:25
new solo record which is totally sweet
01:13:27
because he's he's nailed it more times
01:13:30
than he hasn't and uh I'm just like
01:13:33
trying to focus on putting that whole
01:13:35
thing
01:13:36
together uh my kids are happy so I'm
01:13:39
happy my wife's happy how how old are
01:13:41
the kids now kids are uh 5 and 8 soon to
01:13:44
be 6 and N so um they're great they're
01:13:48
at Newton Central School very happy
01:13:51
there it's only got like 150 kids and
01:13:53
it's right in the middle of town and
01:13:55
such a beautiful School uh they you know
01:13:57
they're learning the language of the
01:13:59
country as well as English so they're
01:14:02
learning Tero and it's it's beautiful to
01:14:05
watch them cuz they're from two
01:14:07
different worlds you know like they're
01:14:08
my wife
01:14:09
sudin and I'm a pakha from New Zealand
01:14:13
you know son of two British immigrants
01:14:16
totally different worlds coming together
01:14:18
and they're beautiful because of that
01:14:20
and they're but
01:14:22
they um I think we spent a year out in
01:14:26
hock and we had great neighbors lovely
01:14:29
neighbors but the school was very
01:14:32
predominantly uh pakha so my kids are
01:14:35
are both um baral and um I think they my
01:14:40
son had long hair so it'd get called a
01:14:43
girl and stuff like this and I was like
01:14:44
what the [ __ ] is it does out in hock uh
01:14:49
it's 2024 for [ __ ] sake you know and
01:14:51
and because we we had such a good
01:14:53
experience of as first year at school in
01:14:56
Melbourne and um so I found it quite
01:14:58
perplexing that that was happening in my
01:15:00
home country so anyway we
01:15:03
found a great School in Kingsland uh
01:15:06
called yeah um newon central school and
01:15:10
it's they've just flourished and it's
01:15:12
just beautiful to watch you know and so
01:15:15
yeah so we're pretty happy you know um
01:15:18
we're very happy and and I'm being
01:15:20
creative I'm still writing music and
01:15:23
Performing and I'm really yeah I'm
01:15:25
really in love with music and and
01:15:28
finding new ways around it so especially
01:15:31
at the moment you know and and because
01:15:33
of all the [ __ ] that happened during Co
01:15:35
losing mom that tontis thing happening
01:15:39
um uh losing my brother-in-law to a
01:15:42
really aggressive cancer um uh it was it
01:15:46
was it was a lot of personal trauma and
01:15:50
lots of personal [ __ ] uh it's a that's a
01:15:54
lot of grief to
01:15:55
lot of grief and so and and also one of
01:15:58
the one of the um one of the things that
01:16:00
my cognitive behavioral therapist said
01:16:01
was it would be good if you could
01:16:03
meditate but because of the nature of
01:16:04
tontis you can't so what can what can
01:16:07
you do play your guitar it's mindfulness
01:16:11
so what did I do played guitar and wrote
01:16:13
and wrote and wrote and that was my road
01:16:15
out of that an anxiety cuz I was having
01:16:18
full-blown panic attacks with this car
01:16:21
alarm going off my head that was out of
01:16:23
my seemingly out of my control at the
01:16:25
time I've learned how to control it now
01:16:27
but um that was my and it was great cuz
01:16:30
I got to think about Mom I got to think
01:16:33
about that feeling I had when I heard
01:16:35
that she'd finally passed away and I I
01:16:37
got that almost vertigo feeling of like
01:16:39
oh [ __ ] there's nothing between me and
01:16:40
the universe anymore I'm that I'm the
01:16:43
adult now you know like there's there's
01:16:45
no one predicting me from that huge
01:16:47
expanse out there you know like I'm that
01:16:50
I'm that last line of defense and that's
01:16:52
something you have to you already get
01:16:55
get to know that feeling when you lose
01:16:57
both your parents you know and and you
01:16:59
know unless you die before them that's
01:17:01
something we all have to face yeah but
01:17:04
it was it was a good way to put it into
01:17:06
music is just poetry is a great way to
01:17:09
to understand that you know like and
01:17:11
understand why you're feeling that or
01:17:13
you know yeah yeah and and it is poetry
01:17:16
I know I said early on we're going to
01:17:17
about the songwriting process how much
01:17:18
time have you got are you in a rush
01:17:19
where you I'm I'm not I'm not in a rush
01:17:21
I I I reckon another half an hour M okay
01:17:24
this is fantastic
01:17:25
as as long as I can have a um a VAP VAP
01:17:29
but don't don't don't show
01:17:32
this okay Jack's on the camera man he's
01:17:35
keeping the camera on me at the moment
01:17:37
we see cloud of
01:17:38
smoke hey by by the way very un rock and
01:17:41
roll of you to ask permission to have a
01:17:42
vit yeah I I appreciate you Tom I'm
01:17:45
loving loving picking your brains you're
01:17:46
such a fascinating guy oh cool man um
01:17:48
I'm I'm liking the conversation yeah do
01:17:50
um yeah so one thing you talk about in
01:17:52
the documentary is your marriage to um
01:17:54
Renee yeah yeah so so you were together
01:17:57
like 20 years you you've been lucky in
01:17:59
La I think yes so no we were we were
01:18:01
together from when I was uh I think we
01:18:03
met when I was 18 or 19 very young and
01:18:07
she had um a six-month-old daughter um
01:18:12
and uh and it just all sort of fell into
01:18:15
place and um and it was it didn't take
01:18:19
long for me to love her daughter just as
01:18:21
much as I loved her and uh she became my
01:18:24
daughter you know and you know she's
01:18:26
still my daughter you know she's my
01:18:28
stepdaughter but she's my daughter you
01:18:29
know and I love her and um yeah the this
01:18:33
the stepdaughter stepson thing I hate
01:18:35
that like if you're if you're if you're
01:18:37
if you're a dad if you're present and
01:18:38
you're there you're the [ __ ] dad but
01:18:40
but in saying that I I was I present I
01:18:43
was present when I was there but I was
01:18:45
away a lot of the time that was shead
01:18:47
was number one priority and I think I
01:18:49
was too young to be a dad maybe or to be
01:18:52
a dad that she deserved I think
01:18:54
personally
01:18:55
cuz I I loved her unconditionally but I
01:18:58
was away for 6 to seven months out of
01:19:00
the Year living my dream you know and
01:19:02
that was I think when you're a parent
01:19:04
you need to be prepared to part those
01:19:07
dreams a little bit not fully but
01:19:10
just they're a priority you know at that
01:19:13
point and um I think I was a little bit
01:19:15
young um and but you know we've got a
01:19:19
good great relationship now and that's
01:19:21
that's cool but um yeah has evolved into
01:19:23
a good friendship really good
01:19:25
she's she's I think almost now but she's
01:19:29
she's amazing she's lived in London and
01:19:33
yeah she had a great life and she's yeah
01:19:35
she's really and she's so into music and
01:19:37
I love that you know she still sends me
01:19:39
new new artists and you should
01:19:41
definitely check that out definitely
01:19:43
check this out yeah relationships are
01:19:44
hard a like um yeah I was married to JJ
01:19:47
who was my co-host and um I was probably
01:19:50
similar to you in a way in that I just
01:19:51
wanted to be the I wanted to be a
01:19:53
[ __ ] Savage on the
01:19:55
I just wanted to be like like a boss and
01:19:57
I had my [ __ ] goals so even though we
01:19:59
Wen separated by distance as you being
01:20:01
in Melbourne and your wife being in
01:20:03
Wellington we were we were working
01:20:05
together but I was just the relationship
01:20:07
was sort of like a supplementary thing
01:20:09
it was like I was so career focused and
01:20:11
driven and as you get older you realize
01:20:13
like it's it's like a plant like you
01:20:15
need to water a relationship don't
01:20:16
abolutely you do and even and you know
01:20:19
and and there was uh there was a lot of
01:20:22
things I learned I you know um
01:20:25
uh renice had had a pretty tough
01:20:26
upbringing with um with the with her
01:20:29
parents and there was she was very
01:20:33
suspicious and very cautious of the
01:20:35
world yeah a very survivalist um
01:20:38
mentality uh you know young solo mom she
01:20:41
she took what she could get and held on
01:20:43
tightly you know and I was definitely
01:20:46
more sort of I I I liked meeting new
01:20:49
people and bouncing around the world and
01:20:52
but I she was very suspicious of any new
01:20:55
people that I brought into my life and
01:20:56
and kept them at Arms distance and and I
01:20:59
realized as I got older that this was
01:21:02
actually really not where I wanted to be
01:21:05
um it was an unhealthy relationship I
01:21:08
think Ana had to see us fighting way
01:21:10
more times than she should have and um
01:21:13
and finally when Ana turned 18 I got the
01:21:16
courage up to go okay I'm getting out
01:21:19
and it doesn't mean I don't love you
01:21:21
it's just that I need to get out for my
01:21:23
sanity and and it and and it was the
01:21:26
best move I ever made you know and um
01:21:29
because I even though I was Johnny rock
01:21:31
and roll star when I was at home I was a
01:21:33
[ __ ] Mouse she knew how to keep me
01:21:36
down you know and that was basically by
01:21:38
destroying my ego making me feel like if
01:21:41
I left her I would be a bum down the
01:21:42
street in Courtney place and I'd never
01:21:44
be able to amount to anything she knew
01:21:47
how to play me and she'd met me when I
01:21:48
was really young so I was sort of kept
01:21:51
in that little bubble and very strictly
01:21:54
controlled and uh yeah so I literally
01:21:57
left thinking that I would literally be
01:22:00
a bum down the street but I was so
01:22:01
unhappy that I was I'd prefer that I
01:22:04
quickly learned that I could do internet
01:22:06
banking and I was a
01:22:11
[ __ ] I can't do
01:22:14
anything it's funny little things like
01:22:16
that they are scary if you've never done
01:22:17
them before well I mean and you know and
01:22:19
that's why I never ever blame her for
01:22:22
anything because I was to toally
01:22:24
complicit in there I handed her the rins
01:22:27
because it suited me you know I it
01:22:30
suited me so you can focus on the Rock I
01:22:32
just be I could just be you know la la
01:22:34
la I didn't even know what I was [ __ ]
01:22:35
earning you know and I needed to grow up
01:22:38
and I did and I did I grow up quick and
01:22:41
then for two years I I [ __ ] partied
01:22:43
my ass off and I had a great time doing
01:22:45
it wrote the first adults record met all
01:22:49
these great
01:22:50
musicians I loved it and then just as I
01:22:53
was getting bored of staying awake for 3
01:22:56
days and partying inly aged people I
01:23:00
went uh I did a talk with Nick DWI you
01:23:03
remember Nick Nick D yeah Nick D yeah
01:23:05
great great human being George FM guy
01:23:08
George FM yeah and fantastic uh really
01:23:11
knowledgeable about music he did a Q&A
01:23:14
with me at the ockland Museum about song
01:23:16
composition I remember I was hung over
01:23:19
as [ __ ] uh when I arrived but ended up
01:23:21
being a great conversation the party
01:23:23
afterwards down was down at a club in
01:23:25
Britman I can't remember but Danna my
01:23:27
now wife crashed the party with her
01:23:31
friend and just came up to me and went
01:23:32
you look interesting she didn't know who
01:23:34
I was and I went you're the most
01:23:36
beautiful human being I've ever seen in
01:23:38
my life and we just talked we just got
01:23:42
on like a house onire straight away I
01:23:44
thought she was American because she had
01:23:45
an American accent but then I went no
01:23:48
that's not quite right but it turns out
01:23:50
she was a daughter of a un Diplomat from
01:23:52
who was Sudanese she was
01:23:55
um basically schooled in American
01:23:56
schooling systems in the Diplomat sort
01:23:58
of circles that you know she done her
01:24:00
primary school in Finland went to
01:24:03
Ethiopia then Virginia in America then
01:24:05
Saudi Arabia and then ended up in aut in
01:24:08
ockland yes to be a caropractor
01:24:10
caropractor true citizen of the world
01:24:12
yeah totally totally and um and we just
01:24:14
got on like a house on fire and it was
01:24:17
it was exciting but at the same time it
01:24:18
was more like I could just breathe out
01:24:20
it was like a feeling of there you are
01:24:23
you know and just knew straight away
01:24:25
yeah and I suppose the timing was right
01:24:26
like you had um evolved and grown into
01:24:28
the the person that was worthy of being
01:24:30
with her yeah yeah and I also knew what
01:24:33
I didn't want and that's just as
01:24:35
important as as knowing what you want
01:24:38
you know I mean I was not I mean the
01:24:41
irony of mar marrying a Sudanese Muslim
01:24:44
woman and then converting to Islam while
01:24:48
being Johnny to good from shead the rock
01:24:50
band is ridiculous I would never have
01:24:52
written that but that's just what
01:24:55
happened she was my best mate it took us
01:24:57
2 years of like like these huge
01:25:01
philosophical conversations where I was
01:25:03
like in fact I think even on the second
01:25:05
date we had I was like are you saying to
01:25:07
me that the only way I can marry you is
01:25:10
if I convert to Islam and she was like
01:25:13
well I don't know why you're talking
01:25:14
about marriage we only this only our
01:25:16
second it's like yeah but I really like
01:25:18
you and I'm just finding out and she was
01:25:20
like well yeah that's how it's done I
01:25:22
was like why don't you convert to
01:25:24
atheist M you know and it was like why
01:25:27
do I have to and it was like so we but
01:25:30
we knew we loved each other and we were
01:25:32
and we just laugh at the same [ __ ] but
01:25:35
only difference was she prayed five
01:25:37
times a day and would give her last $10
01:25:39
to the person who needed it on the
01:25:41
street without even batting an eyelid
01:25:43
because she believed that all money was
01:25:45
not hers anyway it was came from Allah
01:25:47
it was a gift from Allah so you give it
01:25:48
on you know you're just you know you've
01:25:51
got that's a stream of energy and you
01:25:52
got to keep it moving and
01:25:55
that was just the way she was brought up
01:25:56
and I'd be like struggling artists going
01:25:59
[ __ ] I don't even know if I'm going to
01:26:00
earn 15 grand this year so if any money
01:26:02
I get I'm going to hold on tightly to it
01:26:05
you know like so me and my you know
01:26:07
humanist atheist buddies would be
01:26:09
talking the good game it's like well we
01:26:10
don't need God to to know that we would
01:26:13
treat people how we would want to be
01:26:14
treated ourselves which is totally the
01:26:17
right thing I totally agree with that
01:26:19
but we're all still struggling artist so
01:26:22
we wouldn't give our last $5 was because
01:26:24
we didn't know the next time we getting
01:26:26
getting [ __ ] paid and we didn't have
01:26:27
any faith that we would get paid she
01:26:30
believed absolutely that it would come
01:26:32
in another form and without a doubt
01:26:34
following around like a little puppy
01:26:36
she'd give her last $10 away and then
01:26:38
she'd be comped [ __ ] dinner at some
01:26:40
place randomly and I'd be going how the
01:26:43
[ __ ] does that work that's what made me
01:26:45
want to look into it you know yeah what
01:26:48
has it what does it mean to you what's
01:26:49
what's being a Muslim brought to your
01:26:50
life I think uh uh I think most
01:26:53
important ly it's made me realize it's
01:26:56
not about me and it's also not about the
01:26:58
material things in this life that we
01:27:00
accumulate that we all have to give away
01:27:02
when we end up dying it's like it's
01:27:07
actually also it's taught me that you
01:27:10
know cuz she would drag me to you know
01:27:12
like down to you know flinder Street
01:27:14
Station in Melbourne to feed homeless
01:27:15
people I'd never done that before I was
01:27:17
scared and then I did it and went and
01:27:20
after we did it I went home and I had
01:27:22
the best sleep I'd had and probably 20
01:27:24
years because I and I woke up and I went
01:27:27
why is that us because by helping other
01:27:31
people you're literally helping yourself
01:27:33
because they're all just manifestations
01:27:34
of the same [ __ ] thing anyway you
01:27:37
know it's like that that you know that
01:27:38
modern you know that Western capitalist
01:27:40
idea of this is mine that's yours [ __ ]
01:27:43
off it's like that's not how it is
01:27:46
that's just a [ __ ] illusion where all
01:27:50
you know physical you know versions of a
01:27:53
spiritual sort of existence
01:27:54
like literally [ __ ] having this
01:27:57
experience together so we should
01:27:58
literally be looking out for each other
01:28:00
because what happens to you does come
01:28:02
back on to on on how I'm feeling as well
01:28:05
you know like so yeah so I don't know it
01:28:08
just VI with me and I also like the idea
01:28:10
of zakat you know giving zakat at the
01:28:12
end of Ramadan which is basically 2.5%
01:28:15
of all the stuff you've earned of the
01:28:16
year you give it to the people in your
01:28:18
community that need it that have less
01:28:20
than you it focuses your mind unlike
01:28:24
capitalism which focuses your mind on
01:28:26
what you don't have oh my car's good but
01:28:28
it's not as good as the neighbors it
01:28:30
focuses your mind on people who've got
01:28:32
less than you therefore you have more
01:28:34
peace in your heart you sleep better and
01:28:37
it's better for everybody because you
01:28:40
helping people out while you're doing
01:28:41
that you know and it's like it's really
01:28:43
interesting I I just think it's um it's
01:28:46
almost like the antithesis to the modern
01:28:48
capitalist sort of way of thinking you
01:28:49
know yeah just feels like a hard hard
01:28:52
religion to get into like with uh the
01:28:55
Ramadan and the fasting and five times a
01:28:57
day starts for me tomorrow yeah what
01:28:59
does that mean um cuz that's that means
01:29:01
basically I get up um probably about
01:29:04
four 45 minutes before um uh morning
01:29:06
prer and uh have some food usually at
01:29:10
something like porridge and drink a lot
01:29:11
of water because you're not allowed to
01:29:12
drink water during the day either um and
01:29:15
then I I fast for that until the sun
01:29:18
goes down um and the idea is to remind
01:29:23
yourself it's it's not about this world
01:29:25
it's about the next world and it's also
01:29:27
it's not about the things you have and
01:29:30
it's also there are people doing it hard
01:29:32
like this every day and this is what it
01:29:35
feels like to struggle and it just I
01:29:39
don't know there's something
01:29:40
quite it's hard don't get me wrong like
01:29:43
there's days where I'm just like [ __ ]
01:29:44
this you know it's so hard and then but
01:29:48
then it's like any process it's like you
01:29:51
know working on your physique or
01:29:52
anything you burst through that hard but
01:29:54
and all of a sudden there's this moment
01:29:55
of Serenity of 3 days and then it will
01:29:57
get hard again and then you know and
01:29:59
then you find that peace and then it's
01:30:01
like it's really it's a real mental and
01:30:04
physical challenge and I think it's it's
01:30:06
really good for you you know it's good
01:30:08
for you to remind yourself that not
01:30:10
everyone gets to [ __ ] go to the
01:30:11
fridge and just go I'll have that I
01:30:12
don't even know what to choose I've got
01:30:14
so much to choose from you know it's
01:30:16
just a really good reminder of that [ __ ]
01:30:18
and the kids the kids Muslim yep
01:30:21
absolutely they brought up Muslim um uh
01:30:25
yeah I I I think I'm a convert so I I'll
01:30:28
see things differently than someone
01:30:30
who's brought up inside the religion you
01:30:31
know like um I still struggle with you
01:30:34
know even things like Angels or stuff
01:30:37
like that because I find that too
01:30:39
specific you know but I what I don't
01:30:42
struggle with is we're all connected
01:30:45
we're all going to die we're all going
01:30:48
to go back to where we came from where
01:30:50
wherever that is you know and we live in
01:30:52
the west where it's like life life life
01:30:55
life someone dies what the [ __ ] you know
01:30:57
it's like as if that wasn't coming for
01:30:59
them you know it's like that's just
01:31:03
that's so I think with Islam it's like
01:31:06
it's not morbid it's just reminding you
01:31:09
that this is just a this is just one
01:31:11
phase you know like and what you do with
01:31:13
it it's important but it's um and in
01:31:17
fact it's it's important and a test for
01:31:21
like what did I give you while you are
01:31:22
in this little this little what they
01:31:25
call it dun the dun which is the the
01:31:27
physical world uh what did you do that
01:31:30
that question is going to be asked what
01:31:31
did you do with the stuff I gave you did
01:31:33
you pass it on or did you hoard it like
01:31:35
a [ __ ] Dragon like Elon Musk you know
01:31:39
Elon Musk just [ __ ] sitting on his
01:31:41
big pile of cash
01:31:43
going there's a bunch of them mask BOS
01:31:47
Zach there there's I I I totally agree
01:31:50
with that there should be no reason in
01:31:52
this world where there's so much poverty
01:31:53
and so much you know Pro so many
01:31:56
problems that people should be hoarding
01:31:58
that much weth [ __ ] that you know that
01:32:01
is that's unjust and it's actually
01:32:03
[ __ ] the reason the more they have
01:32:06
the less everybody else has cuz there's
01:32:08
only a certain amount to go around you
01:32:10
know I feel like this has always been
01:32:12
this this isn't a Muslim thing this has
01:32:13
always been always it's always been my
01:32:15
job yeah it's always been my and and
01:32:17
how's it been being um becoming a dead
01:32:18
like in your in your mid-40s I I I feel
01:32:21
like you're put in a bit of a bit of
01:32:22
place like emotionally
01:32:26
to deal with them I think being older
01:32:28
dads is it's definitely more of a
01:32:30
accepted sort of it's quite a normal
01:32:32
thing now um uh there's a lot I know a
01:32:36
lot of dads my age who had children
01:32:38
around 38 40 blah blah blah I think
01:32:42
mentally it's way good like cuz it's
01:32:45
like I wanted to have these children so
01:32:49
it wasn't like oh this will be cool it
01:32:51
was like I want these children say
01:32:52
you've done you've done your selfish
01:32:54
[ __ ] that's right and I'm never I'm
01:32:56
never looking at them going I sort of I
01:32:58
love you but I resent you cuz I can't go
01:33:00
out and do this cuz I've already [ __ ]
01:33:01
done it you know so that's great where
01:33:04
it's hard is I think physically it's
01:33:06
harder comp compared to if you're a 26y
01:33:08
old dad you know like I'll be holding my
01:33:10
daughter go to go to fing you know empty
01:33:13
a dishwashing
01:33:15
machine what the [ __ ] my back's gone end
01:33:19
up on my ass for a week you know and
01:33:21
that's where it's harder you know like I
01:33:23
think physically it's harder but I think
01:33:25
mentally it's better yeah yeah so your
01:33:28
stage diving days are behind you oh I
01:33:30
stage I I crowd surfed at meat sock the
01:33:33
other day crowd surfed to the sound
01:33:35
sound desk and back [ __ ] man I I I went
01:33:37
and saw Bruce Springsteen when he played
01:33:39
in Melbourne he crowd Sur the length of
01:33:41
the rod labor Arena three times he's
01:33:43
incredible he's 69 or something and I
01:33:45
was like if he can do it I can [ __ ]
01:33:47
do it he's in great shape he's in great
01:33:49
shape do you still take your top off on
01:33:50
stage or no no [ __ ] that I got old man
01:33:53
Tedy that's gross that's so ugly N I try
01:33:58
I try I I look after myself but I I no
01:34:01
those days are save there for igy pop
01:34:03
and Anthony Keers yeah oh good on you
01:34:06
what what are your kids into how did
01:34:08
with I feel like all kids are into go
01:34:10
through like a Wiggles phase or a no
01:34:12
they didn't really do the wiggle I me I
01:34:13
tried no actually she did she was into
01:34:15
Emma like she thought Emma was the bees
01:34:18
KN and she was she was great um uh but
01:34:21
he I mean he they were into Pokémon on
01:34:24
um big time uh he's really into Comics
01:34:28
like he loves Guardians the Galaxy
01:34:30
comics and um you know uh Marvel Comics
01:34:33
so he loves that I was like that too
01:34:35
which is why I loved Kiss when I was a
01:34:37
kid because they were like a mix between
01:34:39
music and Comics you know like uh but
01:34:42
he's yeah he's and he's really into uh
01:34:45
visual art so he loves drawing I've
01:34:47
tried he he want he he wanted me to
01:34:51
teach me how to get play the guitar but
01:34:53
when I showed a few call he was like oh
01:34:54
that hurts my fingers [ __ ] that so he's
01:34:57
he's not doing that so if he come I'm
01:34:59
always here if he wants to come back to
01:35:01
her just not pushing them into anything
01:35:02
no no it's what whatever they're
01:35:04
passionate about you know like if he
01:35:06
wants to be the best accountant in the
01:35:08
world I'm down with it like if that's
01:35:10
what if that's what he wants to wake up
01:35:11
and do with his life I we are not
01:35:14
pushing them to be anything that we want
01:35:16
them to be all we want them to be is to
01:35:19
be generous good human beings that uh
01:35:23
understand when to help out when they
01:35:25
see people who need help you know and
01:35:26
that's literally that's that's the
01:35:28
Baseline I love that I love that yeah if
01:35:30
your kids can be I mean it's impossible
01:35:33
to be happy all the time but if they
01:35:34
could be happy most of the time and well
01:35:35
adjusted I think that's really cool yeah
01:35:38
um [ __ ] we've covered a lot of ground I
01:35:40
to okay we'll go back for a couple of do
01:35:42
you need another puff yeah you vape out
01:35:46
yeah help yourself um yeah I wanted to
01:35:48
pick your brains about your your
01:35:49
songwriting process so I mentioned
01:35:51
pacify I love that song so much and when
01:35:53
I feel like over the years you've done a
01:35:55
few interviews and you've talked about
01:35:56
how it's um about Aaron from witer who
01:35:58
tragically passed away with a heart
01:36:00
attack a few years ago so sad so um it's
01:36:03
just a beautiful song so he was bipolar
01:36:05
yeah he had bipolar um yeah disorder and
01:36:09
uh that would mean that he would and and
01:36:11
manic manic episodes so yeah just the
01:36:15
extremities above and absolutely and and
01:36:18
so so you you write the song Do you like
01:36:20
do do you play it to him do you do you
01:36:23
give him not at all no not at all in he
01:36:25
knew it was about him though well I I
01:36:27
did I know did yeah I suppose he did
01:36:29
yeah I mean he would have heard me
01:36:31
saying there I mean I didn't no I didn't
01:36:33
go out of my way to tell him about it I
01:36:36
just I mean he was a mate you know but I
01:36:39
I was um yeah listening to it with
01:36:41
through a different lens the other day
01:36:42
knowing you were coming in and I was
01:36:43
thinking if um if I had a friend that
01:36:44
was in a band and he wrote a something
01:36:45
like that about me I don't know I I
01:36:48
think I'd maybe I'd feel a bit def
01:36:49
defensive or maybe I'd just burst into
01:36:51
tears it's a beautiful song it's like a
01:36:54
it's like a like a love song to a mate
01:36:56
yeah it is in a way I mean yeah I mean
01:36:58
it's interesting I I recently I've
01:37:00
written a song called last of the Lonely
01:37:02
Gods which is about my friend Marty
01:37:05
who's a great chef who ended up cooking
01:37:08
on a luxury yacht in the south of France
01:37:11
that who and it was owned it was owned
01:37:13
by that Thai billionaire who used to own
01:37:17
the ler City team that died in the
01:37:19
helicopter accident wow so he he and he
01:37:22
was in a relationship ship for 10 years
01:37:24
with this younger woman in the south of
01:37:27
France and she wanted to have kids and
01:37:30
he couldn't bring himself to say I'm
01:37:33
ready and then he came back to um um Al
01:37:38
and we we hooked up and he was like
01:37:41
going what am I going to do I got to
01:37:42
have to start again I'm 50 years old
01:37:44
what the [ __ ] man and and I it was just
01:37:48
a little song for him just saying you
01:37:51
know every day is a [ __ ] opportunity
01:37:54
again you know you know and that's how I
01:37:56
look at life you know it's like it's
01:37:58
like even I I even look nowadays at at
01:38:01
when I [ __ ] up something on stage the
01:38:03
next verse is a chance to redeem myself
01:38:06
if I if I sung that note wrong you know
01:38:08
I don't let it freak me out I just go I
01:38:11
just go cool [ __ ] that up I'm not going
01:38:13
to [ __ ] up next time you know like and
01:38:15
that's how I look at life as well and
01:38:17
and I wrote the song for him and when I
01:38:18
went to play it to him I I just realized
01:38:21
that the first verses
01:38:23
um your dreams they lie in smoking ruins
01:38:27
thought that you understood you use up
01:38:29
all your um secret weapons they don't
01:38:32
work as they should Now everywhere
01:38:34
there's people doing things you thought
01:38:36
you would and all your roads have led to
01:38:38
nothing well nothing any
01:38:41
good and and I thought he's oh [ __ ] I
01:38:45
forgot about that first verse because it
01:38:47
then goes into don't let it bring you
01:38:48
down you were brave enough to make it
01:38:49
out you're the last alonely Gods one by
01:38:52
one you will defeat him one by one right
01:38:54
so it's like you don't want to lose him
01:38:55
with the first yeah but but I thought
01:38:58
and then he just he was just [ __ ]
01:38:59
getting into it and he went I [ __ ]
01:39:02
love this song and so even though it did
01:39:05
sort of start with him what I what I
01:39:07
heard him saying to me it's it's a
01:39:10
positive message afterwards so but I did
01:39:13
get the sweats on when I was when I
01:39:15
remembered that that's what the first
01:39:17
verse was but he [ __ ] loved it you
01:39:18
know like he didn't take offense to it
01:39:20
at all you know yeah so so when when you
01:39:24
write these songs is do you have like a
01:39:27
melody in mind or are you just writing
01:39:28
notes on your phone or you're humming
01:39:30
into a phone what's the so I I always
01:39:32
start with music cuz music always tells
01:39:34
me where the where the words are going
01:39:36
to go because music can be bit of sweet
01:39:39
it could be totally sad it could be
01:39:41
happy could be joyous it could be
01:39:44
ambiguous it can be angry and that
01:39:47
dictates
01:39:49
where the words are going to go you know
01:39:51
and and that makes it sound easy but
01:39:54
it's not easy so I still every time I go
01:39:56
to write a song it's like the first time
01:39:58
I've written a song cuz it's [ __ ]
01:40:00
hard work cuz you've you've got not only
01:40:04
got to come up with a Melody line that
01:40:06
sticks in your head cuz that's what I do
01:40:08
that's my second stage it's like music
01:40:11
melody line words and that's how I do it
01:40:14
so Melody Line's got to be something
01:40:16
that I will remember and then words come
01:40:19
after that what am I thinking about so
01:40:21
and so you you don't want any lines that
01:40:24
you're
01:40:26
going that well that's not even part of
01:40:28
the [ __ ] story which I used to do
01:40:30
when I was younger cuz I just I wasn't
01:40:32
realizing what the actual art form was I
01:40:34
was just like I was painting painting
01:40:36
painting painting and sometimes I get
01:40:39
lucky like with pacifier or or I had
01:40:42
something in my mind straight away I
01:40:43
knew or home again you know like I I
01:40:45
knew exactly what that was about it was
01:40:47
about that feeling of being in a [ __ ]
01:40:49
hotel in La going I just want to be at I
01:40:51
just want to be home in Al you know
01:40:54
um by the way that's a great put put
01:40:56
your clocks back for the winter that's a
01:40:57
great cuz cuz I was spending most of my
01:40:59
time in my relationship on the [ __ ]
01:41:01
phone right with someone who was on the
01:41:04
other side of the planet doing something
01:41:06
opposite to me you know so um that was
01:41:09
just an image that came you know so but
01:41:11
it's it's it's something you have to
01:41:13
work at man and work at and work at and
01:41:15
sometimes songs just go boom and
01:41:17
sometimes songs you know there's
01:41:19
something in there you have to M for it
01:41:22
and it takes sometimes it takes a year
01:41:24
you know and then you finally get it do
01:41:26
you have like a mol skin notebook or do
01:41:28
you write notes on your phone I I
01:41:29
usually write on my phone but but no if
01:41:33
I'm out but when I'm at home always pen
01:41:36
paper so I just have a stack of [ __ ]
01:41:38
A4 unfinish songs A4 white [ __ ] with
01:41:41
just
01:41:44
like and and I think the active
01:41:47
physically writing makes
01:41:50
it it makes it more real you know and it
01:41:52
also makes it more memorable when you're
01:41:54
writing on a
01:41:56
typewriter or or on your phone it's like
01:41:58
it doesn't quite get into your brain the
01:42:00
same you know like yes I find the
01:42:01
physical act of of handwriting really
01:42:04
really good for writing music any real
01:42:06
quick
01:42:07
ones uh yeah so recently um a song
01:42:11
called um lovers forever that came very
01:42:14
quickly and that was about my mom
01:42:16
hanging on for a person that you know
01:42:19
that never made it so you know you were
01:42:21
there now you're gone just a picture on
01:42:23
our wall
01:42:25
um I I changed it to 3 days hanging on
01:42:29
because it I thought 13 days just too
01:42:31
long I said you know 3 days hanging on
01:42:35
waiting for someone who never come but
01:42:37
you're alive when I see my little girl
01:42:39
in her eyes the Stillness of the world
01:42:43
um in your time you knew that you were
01:42:45
loved and lovers forever you know and
01:42:47
that's and that's and that just came
01:42:50
really quickly because I knew exactly
01:42:52
what needed to write about you know like
01:42:54
it was just there you know is that a sad
01:42:56
song or a happy song I think it's
01:42:58
bittersweet I think it's it's sad
01:43:01
because I've lost my mom but I'm looking
01:43:03
at my daughter and she goes and and and
01:43:05
she's got the same legs as Mom and the
01:43:07
same eyes as Mom and it's like you're
01:43:09
still there but just in a different form
01:43:11
you know like and that that's that you
01:43:14
know cyc cyclic the cycle of life you
01:43:17
know like and it's just um yeah and I
01:43:20
that's my comfort of seeing her you know
01:43:22
and and my daughter
01:43:23
yeah and how long it how long does it
01:43:25
take before you can perform these songs
01:43:27
and disassociate them from the person
01:43:30
they're about do you know you know what
01:43:31
I mean yeah I I mean I I'm I'm already
01:43:33
playing these songs at my solo show so I
01:43:36
I'm actually it's interesting because
01:43:38
it's a different skill live cuz it live
01:43:40
is am I putting my the guitar in the
01:43:43
right place am I strumming right is my
01:43:45
guitar in tune am I hitting the right
01:43:48
note am I okay there's the story okay
01:43:51
cool am I telling the story so it's like
01:43:53
there's lots going on and and again
01:43:56
mindfulness which is again why we're so
01:43:58
you know sensitive beings attracted to
01:44:00
this art form CU you literally can't be
01:44:02
anywhere else you have to be right there
01:44:05
and it's um it's just it's enforced
01:44:07
mindfulness and it's such a good feeling
01:44:09
and I'm and and we talked about it
01:44:11
earlier I didn't really consider myself
01:44:12
a singer until maybe 10 years ago and
01:44:16
now it's like when you've when you're
01:44:18
literally breathing and then hitting
01:44:20
that note and saying that that story
01:44:23
[ __ ] man there's nothing that feels that
01:44:25
good you know really feels great you
01:44:27
know it's like it's the breath and it's
01:44:29
also the the story you know and those
01:44:32
notes you know it's a really amazing
01:44:34
feeling yeah [ __ ] I love that yeah it's
01:44:37
cool my god um what's the future going
01:44:40
to bring for John tou good well so solo
01:44:42
record without a doubt and I think
01:44:44
before the solo record comes out or
01:44:46
maybe in amongst that I think she had
01:44:48
want to do cuz we're going to have to
01:44:50
have a little bit of a break so I can do
01:44:51
this um is everyone in the band okay
01:44:53
with them they are and they because they
01:44:55
know that I'm I mean they were okay with
01:44:57
the adults too you know like cuz the
01:45:00
thing is that it it doesn't take away
01:45:02
from the band it means that I learn more
01:45:04
words to use when I come back to the
01:45:06
band you know more more tricks to use
01:45:08
you know like you know it's like yeah
01:45:10
it's just sharpening that knife isn't
01:45:12
absolutely it informs it you know so
01:45:14
they're cool with it yeah it's it's um
01:45:18
you must be proud of that relationship
01:45:19
like the band dealing with the band
01:45:21
Dynamic I mean yeah you toured with
01:45:23
Metallica have you seen some kind of
01:45:25
monster we went and saw that at the
01:45:27
Melbourne um film festival and we were
01:45:30
in in the light cuz we we were massive
01:45:32
Metallica fans but by the time that came
01:45:34
out not so much we were more into I
01:45:37
don't know alternative and Indian dance
01:45:39
and blah blah blah blah but we're still
01:45:41
still still Metallica you know so we're
01:45:43
in this cube with like all these serious
01:45:45
Metallica fans and we get in there and
01:45:48
everyone's going Metallica Metallica And
01:45:50
I was like Wow and it's going to be cool
01:45:52
and then it just it's like by the time
01:45:54
it's hitting you know the the therapist
01:45:56
writing suggesting lines for their songs
01:45:59
all these hardcore Metallica fans are
01:46:00
just going looking at each other going
01:46:03
what the [ __ ] is this yeah but I thought
01:46:06
it was so brave to do that that was
01:46:08
courageous it was incredible so so much
01:46:10
vulnerability but uh yeah I mean just
01:46:14
goes to show like I suppose the Dynamics
01:46:16
and the complexities of of being in a
01:46:18
band and you guys have navigated that
01:46:20
and you must be so proud of that but but
01:46:22
that's we've had group therapy as well
01:46:24
oh have you yeah absolutely and it and
01:46:26
it's and it's not I'm not ashamed of
01:46:28
that at all because it's [ __ ] it's
01:46:29
nothing absolutely longterm relationship
01:46:32
and there are things that have been left
01:46:34
unsaid that are fering away that like
01:46:37
that time you [ __ ] B you know you
01:46:40
[ __ ] insulted me in front of that
01:46:41
person I've never said anything about
01:46:43
but I've held on to it and and you know
01:46:46
like and and that person may not have
01:46:48
even [ __ ] realized you know but but
01:46:51
having a forum where everyone gets to
01:46:53
shut up while that person says man I
01:46:56
still [ __ ] hate the fact that you did
01:46:58
that to me and that really hurts me cuz
01:47:01
it makes me really guarded around you or
01:47:03
blah blah blah blah blah that shit's
01:47:05
really important to get out out in the
01:47:07
open so it just we've after we did that
01:47:10
we've we're so we we love each other so
01:47:13
much more so much more forgiving of each
01:47:16
other I think that comes with age as
01:47:17
well you know when you're young you're
01:47:19
egotistical it's like you're going well
01:47:22
you [ __ ] up here and you [ __ ] up
01:47:24
here and you said that and that's dumb
01:47:26
thinking and I don't agree with that but
01:47:29
when you're older you go [ __ ] I'm full
01:47:31
of all those dumb contradictions myself
01:47:33
so therefore once you become a bit more
01:47:34
self- depreciated on yourself you you're
01:47:37
far more forgiving of other people's
01:47:38
[ __ ] faults because we've all got
01:47:40
them you know I think that comes with
01:47:42
age as well you know AB it's a trade off
01:47:44
a like you talked before about empting
01:47:46
the dishwasher and putting you back out
01:47:48
so there's the the physical impediments
01:47:50
that come with age but it's the the the
01:47:52
mind stuff you get and the yeah the
01:47:54
awareness like I think everyone in their
01:47:56
20s you just you want a you want world
01:47:58
domination absolutely and then when you
01:47:59
when you get to your 40s of 50s you
01:48:01
realize actually if I can just make sure
01:48:02
my household or my street or my
01:48:04
community is good I'm succeeding
01:48:06
absolutely absolutely oh that's cool um
01:48:10
any any stories about um Metallica Guns
01:48:12
and Roses Black Sabbath did you do lines
01:48:14
of ants with Aussie oh no no no so Black
01:48:18
Sabbath was I found that really
01:48:20
inspiring because like I was saying
01:48:22
earlier it was like great to see Tony
01:48:24
Oman you know the guitarist that wrote
01:48:27
all those [ __ ] riffs that were a huge
01:48:30
part of my childhood and my and many
01:48:32
people around the world just come and
01:48:34
and be like a Workman about it and they
01:48:37
had a and they had the same crew they'd
01:48:39
had for years and everybody knew each
01:48:42
other it was no rockstar [ __ ] it was
01:48:44
about the job that they were doing same
01:48:47
ACDC was exactly the same real Workman
01:48:50
like um approach to it which being
01:48:54
brought up in a household with a
01:48:55
carpenter and blah blah it really vibed
01:48:57
with me it was like it made me go right
01:48:59
you can create something big and
01:49:01
wonderful and not Lose Yourself to all
01:49:03
the trappings of Fame because you
01:49:06
surround yourself with family and you do
01:49:08
your job you know you're there to do a
01:49:10
job and and for me watching him and Giza
01:49:13
Butler the bass player watch our band
01:49:16
pretty much every night they watched our
01:49:18
band and then finally Giza came up to me
01:49:21
and went um
01:49:23
it's so [ __ ] refreshing to have a
01:49:25
band that we actually like [ __ ]
01:49:26
supporting us and can you sign these CDs
01:49:29
for my son and Nottingham who's a
01:49:32
massive shead fan and I'm like
01:49:35
yes and talking about his love of West
01:49:38
Ham United and stuff like that and and
01:49:41
uh it was just they were so familiar to
01:49:43
me because of all the expats that I grew
01:49:45
up with as well they're like my uncles
01:49:48
they reminded me of that sort of vibe
01:49:49
you know yeah and they [ __ ] put on a
01:49:52
mean show and they were older guys you
01:49:53
know so that was
01:49:56
cool um and guns and roses was
01:49:59
interesting Guns and Roses we toured
01:50:01
with when it was only Axel really and a
01:50:03
whole bunch of ringings oh yeah so I
01:50:05
mean it was massive and it was us then
01:50:07
corn then Guns and Roses so big Arenas
01:50:11
all around Australia it was fantastic I
01:50:13
think my funniest story about that is
01:50:16
one day I was uh backstage in the
01:50:19
catering tent waiting to get my food
01:50:22
food order when a helicopter landed
01:50:25
right by the catering tent and out pops
01:50:29
Axel Rose with this gorgeous looking
01:50:32
young woman and walks straight up to me
01:50:35
and
01:50:36
goes is that fish or
01:50:39
chicken and I was just like I think it's
01:50:43
chicken and that was just it was just
01:50:45
such a surreal situation it's like it's
01:50:48
like a helicopter lands big Rockstar
01:50:50
comes out asks me if it's fishal chicken
01:50:53
and it was so normal you know
01:50:55
so oh what a young [ __ ] what a life what
01:50:58
a career yeah it's cool um and yeah I
01:51:00
feel like with your growth mindset it's
01:51:02
like you're just in the second half
01:51:03
totally man yeah totally I've just got
01:51:05
to stick around and not die you know and
01:51:06
just got I don't think you're going
01:51:08
anywhere yeah you feel you got longevity
01:51:10
in your family uh yeah no not well mom
01:51:12
was 84 when she passed dad was younger
01:51:15
he was 76 I think um and his family or
01:51:21
apart from his his sister Rita who's
01:51:24
still around and she must be heading 90
01:51:26
now so yeah I mean it's possible but
01:51:29
yeah a lot of his brothers died young
01:51:31
but they were all [ __ ] heavy smokers
01:51:33
you know and I I you know well you'll be
01:51:35
right what what are your what are your
01:51:36
viruses or bad habits now just The Vape
01:51:38
Vape uh yeah Vape Anda caffeine I think
01:51:41
I mean caffeine yeah I just limit it to
01:51:43
one once a day I'm really caffeine
01:51:45
sensitive and it makes me quite
01:51:47
hyperactive you know it but I just I
01:51:50
just do long walks man cuz I I running
01:51:52
was never my thing I just I my shins and
01:51:56
ankles just hurt too much but walking is
01:51:59
good you know and I just go on long
01:52:01
walks and make sure there's lots of
01:52:02
hills in there you know uh and that that
01:52:04
seems to be okay I'll do the occasional
01:52:06
high high high intensity but I've got
01:52:08
high blood pressure as well so I've got
01:52:10
to watch um a caffeine this but also
01:52:14
doing too much high intensity as well
01:52:16
what are you what are you walking do you
01:52:17
walk in shorts yeah yeah I I can't
01:52:20
imagine you're in shorts I think shorts
01:52:22
like a [ __ ] like workout top just got
01:52:25
my got my earpods on listening to you
01:52:28
know maybe some talk about how Carthage
01:52:32
fall fell to Rome and and and you know
01:52:34
just I just want to know about the world
01:52:37
I love history I always liked history
01:52:39
but I love history more as an older guy
01:52:41
because it just explains where we are so
01:52:43
much better than almost looking at
01:52:45
what's happening right now you know like
01:52:47
it just means you've got a better
01:52:49
understanding of why we're why we're
01:52:51
experiencing what we're experiencing
01:52:53
you so I love history yeah that's my jam
01:52:56
and politics I'm a politics junkie yeah
01:53:01
like American politics is all any
01:53:02
politics all so British um because of
01:53:05
that's where my parents' Heritage was
01:53:08
and uh also American because that has
01:53:11
rooll on effect to
01:53:13
everybody um so it's very important what
01:53:15
happens there that's a clust of [ __ ]
01:53:17
over it is a clust of [ __ ] but I got to
01:53:19
say the the the new government over here
01:53:22
doing good job with a [ __ ] cluster
01:53:23
[ __ ] mate they're not they're not it's
01:53:26
been it's been a pretty much a [ __ ]
01:53:27
clown show yeah uh and I'm I'm not you
01:53:30
know I thought it was going to be bad
01:53:32
but I I'm Every Day I'm going what
01:53:35
you're going to do what now it's like
01:53:37
yeah it's a great idea taking you know
01:53:39
food off off underprivileged kids it's
01:53:42
and then giving it to landlords great
01:53:43
idea [ __ ] yeah mate great idea you know
01:53:45
oh let's get rid of the mar health
01:53:47
authority yeah it's oh it's a great idea
01:53:49
yeah let's [ __ ] get rid of smoke free
01:53:51
yeah that's a really good idea great
01:53:53
great idea I wonder where these ideas
01:53:55
are coming from are the people that paid
01:53:57
for you to get into [ __ ] power I mean
01:53:59
it's so Brazen I mean it's
01:54:03
unbelievable would you would you ever
01:54:04
want to get into politics hell no
01:54:06
because I'm far too passionate and I
01:54:08
would offend too many people and I would
01:54:11
say something that would quickly be used
01:54:13
as a sound bite and that would be my
01:54:15
career over I think I can help better as
01:54:17
an artist and art artists have this
01:54:21
beautiful little pocket where we can
01:54:24
actually say what we [ __ ]
01:54:26
want because it's art you know and
01:54:30
we we're not being paid by the taxpayer
01:54:34
yes I've had you know New Zealand on a
01:54:36
funding without doubt and I'm very
01:54:38
thankful for it um uh but we get to
01:54:42
comment you know and it's like uh
01:54:45
there's there's something there's a
01:54:46
freedom afforded us that I don't think
01:54:49
is afforded to politicians uh especially
01:54:53
in the structures that we've set up I I
01:54:56
I love Chloe I think she she speaks
01:54:59
pretty pretty good truth and I think
01:55:00
she's leader material I've voted labor
01:55:03
my whole life but I think she's the most
01:55:06
inspiring politician I've seen recently
01:55:08
in this country
01:55:10
um yeah I'd love to get on her on the
01:55:13
podcast I think she's fascinating she
01:55:15
and she she believes you know she's a
01:55:18
Believer and you can tell the way she
01:55:21
talks that she thinks humans are awesome
01:55:24
and that's why she gets angry like I get
01:55:27
angry cuz we believe when humans do good
01:55:30
things I mean they are capable of some
01:55:33
beautiful things and that's why we get
01:55:35
angry when we see people being greedy or
01:55:38
selfish or it's just the antithesis of
01:55:42
what the opportunity we have on this
01:55:44
planet to do such great things and it's
01:55:46
like I hate watching it squandered hate
01:55:49
watching it squandered it really [ __ ]
01:55:51
me off yeah [ __ ] your mom and dad would
01:55:53
be so proud of the man you've become
01:55:56
right oh I don't know oh D me and Dad
01:55:58
had nothing left un said which was
01:56:00
beautiful I you know I got to n him and
01:56:03
help Mom out when he was really ill and
01:56:07
um there was nothing left un said
01:56:08
between me and him so I'm very grateful
01:56:10
for that and um but and and I know Mom
01:56:15
was proud of me so that's cool yeah yeah
01:56:18
hey thank you so much for your time
01:56:19
today pleas man my God it's been almost
01:56:21
2 hours totally but that's seriously
01:56:23
long form bro yeah I um yeah hope your
01:56:26
car hasn't been towed from New World oh
01:56:28
[ __ ] yeah let's get out of here man [ __ ]
01:56:31
all right hey mate mate love your work
01:56:32
and I look forward to seeing what you do
01:56:34
next cuz whatever whatever you do it's
01:56:35
going to be exceptional aw thanks Dom
01:56:37
here thanks for having me mate it was
01:56:38
spring great good conversation loved it
01:56:52
oh
