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every day i wake up the first thing i
00:00:03
think
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am i going to be able to talk today
00:00:10
there's been a red card but for who
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chris tamara
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i don't know jeff hazard one of
00:00:15
britain's best love football pundits
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it's been a great job
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unbelievable jeff what a cracking game
00:00:23
there's a young black kid thinking that
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one day i'll play four middles
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middlesbrough and four leads ambition
00:00:32
and dream
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achieved
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the story of your mother i found very
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difficult to read it was difficult in
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those days
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men
00:00:42
were physical towards women i made the
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mistake
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of
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telling my dad on his deathbed that it
00:00:52
was wrong
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i should have kept it to myself
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[Music]
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why
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for someone that has never experienced
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apraxia
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what does it feel like for you and your
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head
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i feel a fraud now in terms of
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broadcasting you feel a fraud
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i
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was gonna quit everything
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without further ado i'm stephen bartlett
00:01:28
and this is the diary of a ceo i hope
00:01:30
nobody's listening but if you are then
00:01:33
please keep this to yourself
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[Music]
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chris
00:01:44
what do i need to know about
00:01:46
your earliest years to understand
00:01:50
the man that you are today
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whoa i don't know really um
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my childhood is slightly clouded um
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so
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i wouldn't change anything because you
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can't change the
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course of history but
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life was difficult growing up very
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difficult um
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so yeah
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i wouldn't change anything to be honest
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when you say clouded
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well good days bad days we had uh
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terrible racism at the time uh when i
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was growing up i was born in 57
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so in the 60s it wasn't good we were the
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only black family on our estate
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so anything happened and the police
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would come knocking on our door take out
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that away and you'd have to get cleared
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and
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come home and the whole process would
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start again it's that black family there
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who are causing all the problems
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and
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occasionally uh not all the time
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my dad
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were like to bet
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so he would
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on a thursday he when he got paid they
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got paid in cash and then brown
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envelopes
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would occasionally go to the bookies and
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so
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we'd end up
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you know struggling for food so it's
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clouded in those ways
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i'm looking through those clouds now but
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you know
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uh
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thinking it didn't do me any harm but it
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happened you know
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your mother and your father's
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relationship
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uh
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mum was the
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most loyal wife you could ever have
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absolutely even if her and dad
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and arguments are fights or whatever
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she would
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venemently stick up for him you know
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when anybody called him you know
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the n-word was vibrant back in those
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days
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and you know i hear these stories now
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that
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it's impossible to understand
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uh
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racism if you're not black it's not true
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it's totally not true
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my mom got colder and lower
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throughout
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you know the 60s when i was aware of it
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uh and she came through it so she knew
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exactly what racism was about
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your father was from sierra leone yeah
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and your mother was from
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middle flow middlesbrough yeah
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people don't always think about that
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they don't think about how the
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in in that context because my mother's
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from nigeria and my dad's from coventry
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so i'm
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you know and
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what my
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dad went through as well because his
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wife was black
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um is often not spoken about but often
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the the partner
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carries the weight and the the um
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the insults all the same
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i i was reading through your story about
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how your mother would also on thursday
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she would walk up to 10 miles
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to go and get your dad's
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pay packet yeah through fear that he
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might spend it yeah she had to and so it
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became a ritual in the end she would do
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it all the time in the end when we were
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older as kids she didn't have to carry
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us to
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the uh workplace which was 10 miles away
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uh
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a brown journey and
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so
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she they ended up she would walk to meet
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dad and they would go off into town
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together you know and that became the
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norm
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did your dad ever show the
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impact or the consequences of the way he
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was being treated like an outsider in a
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country where he people were telling him
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he didn't belong
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uh
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to us as kids did you ever see the
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impact of him emotionally
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did it manifest itself in drinking or
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was there ever a sign that it was
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impacting him uh he told us often enough
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he'd been involved in
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fights uh
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back then fist fights you know that was
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the norm you know he had to stand up and
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be counted but he was always the one
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arrested in those fighting situation
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um but he
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he had this thing and he drove it into
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me and my brother don't ever
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react you know i might be reacting
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but whatever you do don't react you know
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take it on the chin
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and ride through it
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you'll get through it that way it's been
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harder for me
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and i'm doing this for you so
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yeah you'll benefit
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and money
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you know the other thing that i read
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that i found i found really difficult to
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read was the story of your
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your mother
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when
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your dad's gambling
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problems
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were very difficult your mother would
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and you didn't have money your mother
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would go around to other houses in the
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street and knock on the doors and ask
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for bread or anything or money that's
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how it had to be you know if you've got
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tuesday and wednesday to come
00:07:45
on a monday and you haven't got food and
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milk and until dad gets paid on thursday
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she'd go and borrow
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money or milk or bread
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from the neighbors she had to she got
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turned away more often than not but she
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persevered she had to she had to look
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after her kids
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how did you feel amongst that time see
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what agu at this point five six seven
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eight
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um
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well yeah
00:08:17
it wasn't all the time you know it was
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occasional so
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yeah i would say
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from eight-year-old i became aware of it
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more uh
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i know it's eight because i had to light
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a cold fire at eight years of age
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can you imagine you know i can imagine
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asking my boys
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to get wood and paper and matches and
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then light the paper and then once the
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wood gets going put the coal on top at
00:08:52
eight years age yeah yeah
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[Music]
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spooky yeah
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you were asked to do that to heat the
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home yeah
00:09:02
they we didn't have sensual heating he
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had a fire coal fire that was all yeah
00:09:09
you had the
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oven in the
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back of the house in the kitchen so
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you'd put the
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gas on to heat the kitchen when it was
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really cold but the main source of heat
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and the hot water was the fire
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was there was there a lot of love in
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your home
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uh
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yeah i would say intimately yeah yeah
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yeah you know when i look back now
00:09:39
um
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i would change anything even though
00:09:43
there are aspects that i'd like to
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change
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one or two one or two things you know
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what
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the thing i want don't want to do is
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is
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destroy
00:10:01
the
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person who my dad is for my grandkids
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but it was difficult in those days you
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know
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men
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were physical towards women
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uh so yeah
00:10:16
yeah uh difficult yeah
00:10:21
i sat here not so long ago with alex
00:10:23
scott
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the the um football presenter
00:10:27
broadcasting yeah i worked with alex at
00:10:29
sky
00:10:30
yeah her book comes out in 10 days time
00:10:35
in the book i was reading about how um
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she's never spoken about it before
00:10:39
publicly but
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she would come home and watch her father
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beating her up her mother
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constantly
00:10:46
and the mark that left on her as a young
00:10:49
child having to witness that kind of
00:10:51
violence in the home
00:10:52
and it's not really talked about enough
00:10:54
and it's funny the reason why i bring
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that up is because
00:10:56
she's also grappling with the same um
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fear of
00:11:00
tarnishing her father's
00:11:03
life
00:11:04
yeah
00:11:06
yeah but it was done i presume
00:11:09
my dad grew up with it
00:11:13
and so you thought it was okay
00:11:16
for him to do it but like i say
00:11:19
you know
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my kids will probably listen to this and
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you know i don't want to say too much on
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it is there a mixture of emotions around
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it because that's what i observed in
00:11:30
alex as well was there's this like
00:11:32
you look at someone in your life whether
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it's a parent or someone you love and
00:11:35
you say that behavior was wrong
00:11:37
but at the same time
00:11:39
i i love you you're still my father
00:11:42
and it's you know that that balancing
00:11:45
act of like should i hate this person
00:11:46
should you never say
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yeah
00:11:50
i made the mistake
00:11:53
of
00:11:54
telling my dad on my death on his
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deathbed
00:11:58
uh
00:11:59
that it was wrong
00:12:02
and he
00:12:04
he
00:12:05
saw like wouldn't accept that he'd done
00:12:08
what he'd done so
00:12:10
you know
00:12:15
why does that make you emotional
00:12:18
well
00:12:21
i should have kept it to myself
00:12:27
why
00:12:29
why wait until he's nearly dead
00:12:33
to say something i'm a grown man in this
00:12:36
time
00:12:40
your mother
00:12:43
yes
00:12:44
puts a smile on your face yeah of course
00:12:48
um what role has she played in making
00:12:50
you the man you are today
00:12:53
um
00:12:55
she was everything
00:12:57
you could want in a mom
00:13:00
she would do anything for me
00:13:04
um she did
00:13:07
my dad never saw my school report from
00:13:11
the age of five until i left school at
00:13:14
16.
00:13:16
she protected me that way and so yeah
00:13:21
but not only that you know
00:13:23
my mums are great and
00:13:26
she looked after the family um
00:13:31
as good as she possibly could and
00:13:35
you know
00:13:36
she was my world
00:13:39
and at that age what was your what were
00:13:41
your dreams
00:13:43
if i'd asked you the question what do
00:13:44
you want to be when you grow up yeah
00:13:45
footballer yeah no danger
00:13:49
playing for middlesbrough initially and
00:13:51
then
00:13:52
when i saw leads on back to the day
00:13:55
around there may sounds
00:13:58
boring all leads yeah ambition to play
00:14:02
for borah dream to play for leagues so
00:14:05
footballer nothing else tunnel vision
00:14:08
yeah
00:14:10
why
00:14:11
football what was it doing for you oh
00:14:13
everything yeah i used to play
00:14:16
on the field near
00:14:18
our house
00:14:20
with again squirrel men from the age of
00:14:23
12
00:14:25
and i wasn't bad you know and they would
00:14:28
try to kick lumps out of this little kid
00:14:32
who was embarrassing him so
00:14:35
yeah it stood me in good stead
00:14:38
when i played against men at 16
00:14:42
i couldn't look after myself
00:14:45
eventually you um you end up going and
00:14:47
doing a couple of months in the army
00:14:50
yeah the navy
00:14:53
yeah
00:14:53
no um
00:14:56
uh dave richardson
00:14:58
uh who was uh
00:15:01
uh coach middle
00:15:03
boys
00:15:04
came around my house and said to my dad
00:15:07
uh there's a chance not guaranteed that
00:15:12
chris will be taken on uh as an
00:15:16
apprentice a middlesbrough and he went
00:15:18
no
00:15:19
no he's not going
00:15:21
if he stays in middle row
00:15:24
he'll become uh
00:15:27
he'll be in trouble with police uh he'll
00:15:30
end up drinking and stuff like that he's
00:15:33
not staying in middlesbrough he's going
00:15:35
in the navy he made my brother join the
00:15:39
army
00:15:40
and he made me join the navy
00:15:43
literally
00:15:44
frog marched me down to the recruitment
00:15:47
office and the sign on the dotted line
00:15:50
can you imagine you know well i can't
00:15:53
imagine doing that to my kids you know
00:15:57
and in a way i think that worked against
00:16:00
me with my kids
00:16:02
because
00:16:03
i never pressurized my kids to do
00:16:06
anything at all
00:16:08
you know let them
00:16:10
do whatever they wanted whereas
00:16:13
i probably could have been a you know
00:16:16
a little bit more
00:16:18
in terms of football or
00:16:20
you know
00:16:23
but i want whatever they wanted to do
00:16:26
was my wish and i think that came from
00:16:30
my dad
00:16:32
when he marched you down there and you
00:16:34
had a love for football at that time he
00:16:35
marched you down there and he wanted you
00:16:36
to join the navy
00:16:39
how did you feel
00:16:41
um
00:16:44
not good i have to say not good um
00:16:49
it was
00:16:50
one of those things i left middlesbrough
00:16:53
boys were
00:16:55
in a semi-final um the week before i was
00:16:59
going in the navy so i knew
00:17:03
i had this final coming up when i signed
00:17:06
a semi-final coming up when i signed uh
00:17:10
for the navy
00:17:12
so i was thinking hopefully the
00:17:15
semi-final and final
00:17:17
yeah of the middle boys
00:17:20
uh will be over
00:17:22
but i played the semi-final and then
00:17:25
i didn't uh get in touch with dave
00:17:29
richardson to tell him i wouldn't be
00:17:31
there for the final because i was off to
00:17:35
tall point in devon
00:17:37
uh well como it's across the water from
00:17:41
plymouth um that's where i'm from
00:17:43
plymouth yeah plymouth yeah so you know
00:17:46
it's comal and not devon yeah but it's
00:17:49
uh it's a stone's throw
00:17:52
and uh that's where i got my lucky break
00:17:55
yeah
00:17:57
your lucky break
00:17:58
yeah when the navy football team were
00:18:02
training there so uh
00:18:04
i went down um
00:18:07
one day
00:18:09
and uh i asked the coach if i
00:18:12
could train with him and the team and he
00:18:16
went now
00:18:19
three reasons one you're on
00:18:23
a trial
00:18:24
so
00:18:25
yeah what it did you were on a trial
00:18:28
situation whereas
00:18:31
you got to
00:18:33
six weeks whether you liked the navy or
00:18:36
they like you and if not you could leave
00:18:39
so he said come back in six weeks
00:18:43
uh if you want and the other thing he
00:18:46
said number two
00:18:47
he said is your black and these lot are
00:18:53
kick lumps out of you so to speak
00:18:56
so and the third thing is you're too
00:18:59
skinny you're not gonna be strong enough
00:19:02
to play in the
00:19:03
uh navy football team so i said okay
00:19:07
anyway got to six weeks
00:19:10
was fine uh was okay
00:19:14
and then
00:19:15
there's a six months
00:19:18
period then where you can decide if you
00:19:20
want to stay in the navy or not
00:19:23
so
00:19:24
uh i went back to see him and he kept
00:19:28
saying no no no and then one day i was
00:19:31
running around the track while the navy
00:19:34
football team and he said look we're two
00:19:37
players short i'll play on one side you
00:19:41
play on the other just stay out on the
00:19:43
wing and you'll be fine
00:19:46
so i said okay anyway i scored two goals
00:19:50
from the wing
00:19:51
and got drafted straight into the team
00:19:55
straight away and
00:19:57
the rest is
00:19:59
history
00:20:00
we played
00:20:01
portsmouth
00:20:04
reserved
00:20:06
and um
00:20:08
navy side i scored another two goals
00:20:12
against them they asked how old i was
00:20:15
and
00:20:16
they bought me out for the
00:20:18
magnificent sum of 200 pounds
00:20:23
and
00:20:24
my dad um
00:20:26
i i found my dad and i told him what was
00:20:29
happening
00:20:31
and he wasn't happy so
00:20:35
i spoke to the navy and said look
00:20:38
would you do me a favor would you give
00:20:41
me a letter saying if it don't work out
00:20:44
as a footballer i can go back in the
00:20:47
maybe and they said yeah fine
00:20:49
so
00:20:50
i got that letter
00:20:52
uh
00:20:53
sent it to dad and it sounded like made
00:20:57
him
00:20:58
you know a bit more cell
00:21:00
hmm
00:21:02
and then it happens your your career
00:21:04
portsmouth
00:21:05
a lot of people don't um
00:21:07
a lot of people will never appreciate
00:21:09
especially in this the modern era even
00:21:10
me even me as a guy that has a a black
00:21:13
black mother and a white father the what
00:21:16
racism was like back in the 50s and 60s
00:21:19
you know the first time i experienced
00:21:20
racism was
00:21:22
maybe 1990
00:21:25
eight
00:21:26
no it would have been later a little bit
00:21:28
about 2000 roughly about when i was
00:21:30
maybe eight or nine or ten but when i
00:21:32
was reading through what you experienced
00:21:33
at that in that time
00:21:35
almost constantly yeah yeah i just it
00:21:38
it's it makes it almost makes my
00:21:40
experience feel like it was nothing
00:21:43
and i mean that like i remember like
00:21:44
once or twice or three times you know
00:21:47
over the course of my whole childhood
00:21:48
people being overtly racist
00:21:51
but when was the first time someone was
00:21:52
racist to you
00:21:55
i know exactly when it all scanner never
00:21:58
forget it
00:21:59
i was eight years old once again that
00:22:02
was the time where i could light the
00:22:05
fire and go to the shops to get
00:22:08
cigarettes so you went with a note for
00:22:11
the shopkeeper
00:22:13
so it was
00:22:15
10 wood vines for my mum
00:22:18
and 20 capstan full strength
00:22:22
my dad
00:22:23
so i went to the shop
00:22:25
gave the note to the shopkeeper
00:22:28
uh and he's getting in this woman uh
00:22:31
came in the shop
00:22:33
anyway she asked for a pint of milk or
00:22:36
loaf of bread i'm not sure of those
00:22:39
details
00:22:40
and uh he said i am i'm serving this
00:22:44
young man here
00:22:45
she said isla should
00:22:48
go back to where they came from
00:22:50
and i thought i live five dollars away
00:22:53
from you you know
00:22:55
uh i'm not you know from somewhere else
00:22:58
and he said no look he stood his ground
00:23:01
the shopkeeper and served me and i went
00:23:05
out with uh ringing in our ears and then
00:23:09
blacks and souls
00:23:11
shouldn't be here
00:23:15
it says it all that you can remember
00:23:16
that day with such detail
00:23:18
[Music]
00:23:19
i can yeah
00:23:22
that's something i don't think people
00:23:23
realize is the first time someone called
00:23:25
me in the n-word at school i remember
00:23:27
everything about that day i can't
00:23:28
remember many other days but for some
00:23:30
reason that was a it's a very traumatic
00:23:32
experience
00:23:33
and the first sort of signs that you're
00:23:35
different yeah unwelcome
00:23:38
um
00:23:39
and that would go on to continue
00:23:41
throughout your
00:23:42
childhood your football career
00:23:45
i read about the story when you were
00:23:46
playing against millwall i believe it
00:23:48
was
00:23:49
and someone had thrown a banana on the
00:23:50
pitch at you um
00:23:53
yeah no wall was
00:23:56
horrific but not just for me as a black
00:23:59
person it was for any footballer that
00:24:02
went there you know basically but even
00:24:05
harder for me i can always remember uh
00:24:09
once again if you ask me about my career
00:24:13
and there's you know lots i forget but
00:24:16
the first time i took a throw in there
00:24:19
the ball went out
00:24:20
and they kept the wall initially it
00:24:23
wouldn't give me it and then eventually
00:24:26
got through on to the pitch
00:24:28
and the
00:24:30
uh
00:24:32
um
00:24:33
fans uh virtually there and you're
00:24:36
taking a throwing from there so i'm sort
00:24:40
of like taking this throwing and all of
00:24:42
a sudden spit is on the back of my the
00:24:46
packet much
00:24:48
i never took a throwing ever there again
00:24:54
that lesson was truly learnt yeah
00:24:59
and the the the other story which i
00:25:01
found it just sounded like something
00:25:03
from
00:25:03
a thousand years ago was when you went
00:25:05
to the pub after a game
00:25:08
with your team and the the pub owner
00:25:10
made a comment a racist comment to you
00:25:12
yeah yeah that was in wetherby i'd
00:25:16
played for portsmouth at sunderland
00:25:20
um
00:25:21
and
00:25:22
1976
00:25:26
i think sunderland needed to win to get
00:25:30
promotion to the what is the premier
00:25:33
league now the old first division
00:25:36
we needed a win to stay up
00:25:39
in the old second division
00:25:43
what is the championship now anyways
00:25:46
sunderland won
00:25:48
that day
00:25:50
i always remember that game
00:25:53
for two reasons not just the weatherby
00:25:56
incident
00:25:57
i drank champagne for the first time
00:26:01
uh sunderland sent a case of champagne
00:26:04
into the dressing room because they got
00:26:07
promoted that day
00:26:09
so
00:26:10
we get on the coach uh every
00:26:13
virtually every team that played
00:26:16
sunderland on newcastle would stop at
00:26:18
whether before fish and chips
00:26:22
um
00:26:23
so uh
00:26:25
so we stop so we all pile in the pub uh
00:26:30
most of the players
00:26:32
and the barman says we don't serve his
00:26:35
kind in here
00:26:37
and
00:26:38
the lights were all gone and i went no
00:26:40
no no it's fine uh to be honest i was
00:26:43
underage anyway i was 17. um
00:26:47
but that didn't matter back then i'd
00:26:49
been going in the pubs since i was 14
00:26:53
you know
00:26:54
um so i went no no it's fine anyway
00:26:57
mickey mello's one of my teammates
00:27:00
said i'll bring you a pint out but that
00:27:02
was the first time that my teammates
00:27:06
realized you know do you get that often
00:27:09
and stuff like that
00:27:11
they're saying yeah occasionally you
00:27:13
know but
00:27:15
part of life you know
00:27:17
you get on with it
00:27:19
it's one thing to to shrug it off and i
00:27:22
feel like in that situation
00:27:25
there's a time in place you know
00:27:27
to um to address some of these things or
00:27:30
to confront them
00:27:31
your father had taught you to kind of
00:27:33
not react as you say
00:27:35
but as you look back on that period of
00:27:37
your life
00:27:38
how did that racial abuse shape and
00:27:40
change you as a man
00:27:42
uh
00:27:43
it made you wary of other people
00:27:47
obviously
00:27:48
you know
00:27:49
not happy but i wouldn't say oh god it's
00:27:52
traumatized me or
00:27:54
something like that
00:27:56
and then the
00:27:57
black lives come out and people start
00:28:00
telling their stories of
00:28:03
racism
00:28:04
and the way they've been treated and you
00:28:06
think ah why can't i tell my story now
00:28:10
and i have them
00:28:11
[Music]
00:28:13
has that helped you telling your story
00:28:16
to be honest i wouldn't say it's helped
00:28:18
me out not help me
00:28:20
i think
00:28:23
since i've had this
00:28:25
well i've got two conditions an
00:28:28
underactive thyroid and
00:28:30
apraxia
00:28:32
the underactive the thyroid
00:28:35
plays with your emotions
00:28:38
so
00:28:39
i get a lot more emotional now whereas
00:28:42
stuff i wouldn't even bat an eyelid in
00:28:45
the past because of this little
00:28:48
butterfly
00:28:50
uh thyroid in my neck it now
00:28:53
makes me more emotional
00:28:56
when did you discover the underactive
00:28:58
thyroid uh well
00:29:01
it's funny you know it's really funny um
00:29:06
it's
00:29:08
i did
00:29:09
going through lockdown initially the
00:29:12
first lockdown in march
00:29:15
uh when the weather was great and
00:29:18
everyone you know quite
00:29:21
you know i think they were gutted about
00:29:24
the lockdown but the fact you were at
00:29:26
home and the sun was shining
00:29:28
things were slightly different i did
00:29:31
loads and loads of shows from home you
00:29:34
know
00:29:35
celeb use and steph's back launch itv
00:29:39
lorraine and stuff like that sky sports
00:29:42
from the you know
00:29:44
barn at home
00:29:46
you know so that was fine
00:29:50
so uh
00:29:51
all of a sudden i began
00:29:53
to not feel well
00:29:56
um
00:29:57
too well but i always stroked it off i'd
00:29:59
take you know
00:30:02
tablets and be fine the next day and all
00:30:05
that sort of stuff but it wasn't going
00:30:07
away
00:30:09
and uh
00:30:10
i thought
00:30:11
what's going on but i ignored it ignored
00:30:15
it which is the worst thing you can
00:30:18
possibly do
00:30:19
so i would get away with it at home by
00:30:23
hardly not being the person i was you
00:30:27
know i'm not talking as much when i'm
00:30:29
broadcasting for sky
00:30:32
i'm trying to keep minimalistic because
00:30:35
some of the words are coming out slurred
00:30:38
and stuff like that so
00:30:41
eventually
00:30:43
um
00:30:44
i've got to go and see someone because
00:30:47
i literally went
00:30:49
a whole year if not 20 months
00:30:53
before
00:30:55
i actually
00:30:57
got diagnosed with underactive thyroid
00:31:00
so
00:31:02
it was all my prayers answered at once
00:31:05
uh
00:31:06
you know
00:31:08
you've got an underactive thyroid take
00:31:11
level thyroid
00:31:13
once you find your level of level of
00:31:16
thyroxine you'll be fine
00:31:19
great doctors great uh sorting out so
00:31:23
eventually you take 25
00:31:25
grams or whatever it is a level entire
00:31:29
auction
00:31:30
eventually when you find your level
00:31:33
you're fine so i get to 175
00:31:36
and my thyroid is stabilized
00:31:40
bull
00:31:41
my voice condition is still exactly the
00:31:45
same so what's going on
00:31:47
so my doctor then says go for a brain
00:31:51
scan
00:31:52
so i'd go for a mri scan anyway
00:31:55
go and see a brain specialist he looks
00:31:58
at the
00:31:59
x-rays the mri scan fine not a problem
00:32:03
nothing wrong with your brain it's got
00:32:06
to be something else that's going on
00:32:10
so uh
00:32:12
go back to my gp and tell him what's
00:32:16
going on he's got the report
00:32:19
from the brain scan so he says he he
00:32:22
won't give up my gb
00:32:24
he says
00:32:26
it's not obviously your uh thyroid
00:32:29
there's something else going on
00:32:31
would you go and see this doctor lily
00:32:35
and late he's a specialist
00:32:38
so i'll go and see dr lily in leads and
00:32:42
before
00:32:43
uh alboni said hello to him uh and
00:32:47
before i can even chat to him he says
00:32:51
you've got apraxia
00:32:53
of speech
00:32:55
right how do you know i can tell
00:32:58
straight away the difficulty between
00:33:02
the brain and your mouth being able to
00:33:06
speak you know it's probably slower than
00:33:09
it is now uh at that time
00:33:12
so he said a lot you know i want you to
00:33:15
go and have a dat scan which is which
00:33:18
rules out parkinson's or stroke and all
00:33:22
that so so
00:33:23
i did uh went back to see him with the
00:33:27
result for the results i should say
00:33:30
and he went
00:33:31
the good news is
00:33:33
uh you haven't got
00:33:35
parkinson's or anything like that the
00:33:38
bad news is
00:33:39
you know
00:33:40
we can't find anything else wrong with
00:33:44
you so
00:33:45
you know the apraxia
00:33:48
you know will probably get worse
00:33:51
and uh
00:33:53
and
00:33:53
you know
00:33:56
that went on for
00:33:58
quite a while uh
00:34:00
i went to see a therapist
00:34:03
and he kept saying to me look you need
00:34:06
to tell people you know you can't
00:34:09
continue
00:34:10
on tv and people are saying is he drunk
00:34:14
and what's the matter with him has he
00:34:15
had a stroke
00:34:17
you need to
00:34:18
come out and say something i said i
00:34:20
can't i can't i'd rather quit
00:34:23
than
00:34:24
actually say something
00:34:27
uh
00:34:28
anyway eventually
00:34:30
i
00:34:32
spoke to my mate ben sheppard
00:34:35
uh
00:34:36
told him what was going on so he said
00:34:39
look
00:34:40
come on
00:34:42
uh gmb
00:34:43
uh
00:34:44
we'll chat about it and
00:34:46
let the world know
00:34:48
what's going on
00:34:53
how are things for your your family
00:34:55
during this period
00:34:57
um
00:35:01
my boys had been saying to my wife that
00:35:05
something wrong with that uh
00:35:07
for a while
00:35:09
and
00:35:09
she saw like
00:35:12
would broach it with me but i'd be
00:35:14
quite snappy and you know which i'm not
00:35:18
anyway
00:35:19
you know and say no i'm fine i'm fine
00:35:22
don't worry about it i'm fine
00:35:24
and i kept thinking like i said once i
00:35:27
got the thyroid problem the level will
00:35:30
tie rocks
00:35:32
i'll take it away
00:35:34
and then
00:35:36
um
00:35:38
it's still with with me and
00:35:41
yeah
00:35:43
yeah
00:35:44
it's harder for people close to you i
00:35:48
think you know because
00:35:50
my two boys are saying oh you're okay
00:35:53
oh yeah i'm fine i've just had a bad day
00:35:56
you know don't worry i'll be fine uh but
00:35:59
they know you know
00:36:01
you can't pull the ball over their eyes
00:36:04
for too long
00:36:08
for someone that has never experienced
00:36:11
what it's like to have apraxia
00:36:14
what does it feel like for you in your
00:36:16
head
00:36:18
it feels like
00:36:20
someone is taking over my voice books
00:36:24
so
00:36:25
the
00:36:26
voice that used to come out would come
00:36:28
out at 300 mile an hour you know you've
00:36:32
seen me on the
00:36:34
results and
00:36:36
uh soccer saturday you know my mouth
00:36:39
talking uh
00:36:41
not even waiting for a breath just keep
00:36:44
going and going
00:36:46
now when i hear myself or see myself on
00:36:49
tv it's someone else
00:36:51
it's strange it's really strange
00:36:54
some days you know their message from
00:36:58
the brain to the mouth
00:37:00
is really slow yeah
00:37:03
makes it difficult or some days the
00:37:05
words come out different that what
00:37:07
you're trying to say and that's even
00:37:10
weirder
00:37:11
uh and so that's been hard to accept
00:37:15
and still hard to accept i have to say
00:37:18
you know
00:37:20
i
00:37:21
was gonna quit everything you know
00:37:24
literally every single
00:37:27
tv at the end of last season leave sky
00:37:32
uh quit bbc quit itv quit channel four
00:37:36
and five
00:37:37
and all those companies
00:37:40
uh
00:37:42
bbc i think it was the right time to
00:37:44
leave sky
00:37:46
uh i'd had a great innings but
00:37:49
itv channel on channel 5 said no no
00:37:54
you're coming doesn't matter you know i
00:37:57
said well it's the quality of the
00:37:59
program no it doesn't matter
00:38:02
you you're fine we want you to do this
00:38:05
and would you believe i'm now
00:38:08
doubly busy than what i was before
00:38:13
that that period of um
00:38:16
uncertainty you get the diagnosis
00:38:18
the specialist says to you it's only
00:38:20
going to get worse
00:38:21
[Music]
00:38:24
your career is at that point in
00:38:26
speaking
00:38:28
it's in presenting broadcasting yeah
00:38:33
what's what what was that period of
00:38:35
uncertainty like on your mental health
00:38:38
um
00:38:40
yeah it was uh an acceptance really
00:38:44
because what i said to my wife is if i
00:38:49
wasn't a broadcaster it wouldn't matter
00:38:52
would it
00:38:53
and so she said yeah yeah so i said you
00:38:57
know now's the time i've had a great
00:39:00
time i spoke to my agent
00:39:03
simon dent said look i'm getting out of
00:39:06
all this
00:39:07
and he said yeah you can yeah don't
00:39:10
worry
00:39:11
i'll leave it up to you and uh
00:39:16
yeah i thought that's it quit i've done
00:39:19
my time
00:39:20
and
00:39:21
i'd like to thank all the people
00:39:24
that are being persistent and said look
00:39:28
at 25 percent coming years
00:39:32
you know
00:39:32
still better than some people you know
00:39:39
and skye
00:39:41
saw you on that show forever
00:39:43
um yeah presenting and bringing you know
00:39:47
insights and wisdom and laughs and
00:39:50
um all of that to the show
00:39:52
i also watched the tribute um that jeff
00:39:56
jeff did when you left what was that
00:39:58
like having to to speak to
00:40:00
to jeff and and the rest of the lads and
00:40:01
tell them
00:40:02
departing and for the reason um well
00:40:05
jeff's a really close foul and he knew
00:40:09
that been something going on for a while
00:40:12
and he kept saying to me are you all
00:40:14
right and i said yeah i'll find you
00:40:16
don't worry i'm fine you say well you
00:40:19
know
00:40:20
yeah what's going on so i said honestly
00:40:23
just had a couple of bad days and stuff
00:40:26
but i'll be fine on saturday then he'd
00:40:28
send me a text and say you know fine
00:40:31
again no i said i'll be all right next
00:40:34
week or whatever but
00:40:37
yeah you can't pull the wool over
00:40:40
people's eyes who know you real well and
00:40:43
uh it was great you know
00:40:46
the tribute that skye gave me which
00:40:50
like i said was the right time to leave
00:40:53
there
00:40:54
uh i cried when he cried on the show
00:41:00
i've never seen him cry before
00:41:02
he's a really um
00:41:04
beautiful powerful moment
00:41:07
um
00:41:08
since then
00:41:10
you've uh in your own words you've
00:41:11
really thrown the kitchen sink i think
00:41:13
is the quote um
00:41:16
um the apraxia and can you talk to me
00:41:18
about what you've done since to
00:41:21
to um
00:41:23
mitigate the
00:41:24
impact of the
00:41:26
um
00:41:27
condition on you and your life and your
00:41:28
career
00:41:30
yeah the um the day i went on
00:41:34
gmb and spoke to ben sheppard
00:41:38
um
00:41:39
and kate um
00:41:42
the i got a phone call immediately from
00:41:45
a fella that i knew
00:41:49
ish
00:41:50
uh a fellow called winford doors and uh
00:41:54
he said uh
00:41:56
i can cure you you know i know there's
00:41:59
people out there that'll help
00:42:03
to get you right
00:42:05
so
00:42:06
he said
00:42:08
i want you to come and meet a professor
00:42:12
nicholson down at sheffield university
00:42:17
so i said okay so i met winford and the
00:42:21
professor anyway between them they were
00:42:25
saying
00:42:26
you need to kickstart your cerebellum
00:42:29
which is in the back of the brain
00:42:32
uh what's happened is uh it's shut down
00:42:36
so we need to get the jump leads out
00:42:39
start it again and get your brain going
00:42:42
and get your speech going
00:42:45
and uh there are various ways to do that
00:42:49
[Music]
00:42:52
so
00:42:53
so i said yeah what are those i'll do
00:42:56
absolutely anything here to try and get
00:43:00
it right
00:43:01
so
00:43:02
he got
00:43:04
[Music]
00:43:05
zing performance which is really
00:43:09
exercises for stroke victims but it's
00:43:12
helped my balance
00:43:14
uh
00:43:15
arc performance which is micro currents
00:43:19
going through my body i still i have
00:43:22
a tag on my
00:43:25
ankle now with those micro currents
00:43:28
going through all the time yeah all the
00:43:30
time yeah
00:43:32
uh for seven hours every day
00:43:35
um and it's helped
00:43:38
yeah it's helped you know i'm
00:43:41
i wouldn't say um
00:43:43
more than 60 percent
00:43:46
the old me but
00:43:48
you know i was 20
00:43:50
you know so i've gone up 40
00:43:53
for a
00:43:54
hyperbaric uh tent you know with the
00:43:58
oxygen he recommended
00:44:01
i do that and i see a therapist
00:44:05
who helps with the speech and help my
00:44:08
anxiety working for sky
00:44:13
became very difficult you know
00:44:16
before i
00:44:18
even
00:44:21
came out and said i've got it
00:44:23
my heart would be like mad before they
00:44:27
came to me at sky
00:44:30
oh the anxiety was terrible because i
00:44:33
was
00:44:34
knowing i wasn't the old me
00:44:37
so i went to see him and he said look i
00:44:40
can cure that
00:44:42
the other problem the apraxia is a
00:44:45
biological condition so i can't help
00:44:49
with that but
00:44:50
we'll try you know and see if we can get
00:44:53
you through things
00:44:55
so getting rid of the anxiety helped me
00:44:59
finish work or
00:45:01
the
00:45:03
work i had stacked up uk strongest
00:45:06
mountain the games right tv
00:45:08
uh all those shows cash in the attic i
00:45:11
present
00:45:12
um
00:45:13
so they helped me do that um
00:45:17
and uh all those
00:45:19
um
00:45:20
treatments you know i'm taking so many
00:45:22
vitamins these days and uh
00:45:26
i've just been introduced by winford
00:45:30
uh to uh
00:45:31
the
00:45:32
uh
00:45:33
best neurologist neurologist
00:45:37
in america and
00:45:39
he said because i have good days there's
00:45:43
no reason why i can't be cured
00:45:46
so i've sent off a load of blood tests
00:45:50
and everything to america and i'm just
00:45:54
waiting on the results
00:45:58
how is life for you now
00:46:00
you've been through a journey yeah you
00:46:03
know
00:46:04
where are you in in that journey now
00:46:06
strange uh
00:46:08
strange in terms of
00:46:10
i feel a fraud now in terms of
00:46:13
broadcasting i don't bring
00:46:16
to the table what i used to
00:46:19
um so that's hard
00:46:23
my life away from the screen
00:46:26
couldn't be any better
00:46:28
you know grandkids
00:46:30
you know family yeah
00:46:33
it's
00:46:34
you know it's perfect unique yeah
00:46:37
you feel afraud
00:46:39
yeah
00:46:40
um
00:46:44
because you because you
00:46:46
i feel i'm doing these programs and
00:46:51
and they're not getting the best of me
00:46:54
but they're tolerating me you know
00:46:57
that's how it feels
00:47:03
i mean
00:47:05
who am i to say but um you know i
00:47:08
i think what you what they told you
00:47:10
about
00:47:11
as you said 25 of you is better than
00:47:13
pretty much everyone else
00:47:16
you know i've you you've brought so much
00:47:17
joy to my life growing up made me love
00:47:19
the game more made me understand the
00:47:21
game more you've made it hilarious i
00:47:23
mean you know that you're you're loved
00:47:24
more than anyone i've ever seen on the
00:47:26
screen so
00:47:27
and you've earned that that's a skill
00:47:28
that's something i couldn't do
00:47:30
i wouldn't know how to do a slither of
00:47:32
what you do so
00:47:33
i don't think that um i suspect that
00:47:35
fear is is not as logical as you think
00:47:38
it is that you're a fraud
00:47:40
i mean that as well like i could never
00:47:42
do what you do i can do of 10 of what
00:47:44
you do
00:47:45
so um
00:47:48
you know
00:47:51
it's like anything else you take it for
00:47:55
granted your old self you do things
00:47:58
you know
00:48:00
that tribute that skye gave me
00:48:03
that's
00:48:04
reserved for someone who passes away
00:48:08
isn't it you know so i've had the
00:48:10
tribute while i'm still alive
00:48:13
uh that people don't get when they go
00:48:17
you always look back and think you read
00:48:20
the obituaries and the comments and
00:48:22
things why didn't people say that
00:48:25
you know so
00:48:27
i think
00:48:28
maybe i should have bowed out
00:48:32
then
00:48:32
you know and
00:48:35
taking the accolades and said thank you
00:48:39
you know am i tarnishing
00:48:41
what i've got what i had
00:48:47
but i but i think um my rebuttal to that
00:48:50
if i may is that you you're serving the
00:48:52
world in a very important way now still
00:48:55
even by having this conversation and
00:48:57
being vulnerable and open
00:48:59
you are serving hundreds of thousands of
00:49:01
people
00:49:02
thousands and thousands of people in a
00:49:04
completely entirely different way
00:49:08
that are suffering
00:49:10
with with various conditions whether
00:49:11
it's
00:49:12
you know as you said post-stroke victims
00:49:14
or whether it's apraxia or other things
00:49:16
and they're struggling with the same
00:49:18
self-doubt
00:49:19
it's funny like our missions just change
00:49:21
over our lives right like so your first
00:49:22
missions was in football and then you
00:49:23
became a manager then you did
00:49:24
broadcasting and now this chapter of
00:49:26
your life is just a different chapter
00:49:29
you're still you know a wondrous
00:49:31
broadcaster but you're serving people in
00:49:33
a completely other way probably maybe
00:49:34
arguably even in a more important way
00:49:37
see what i mean yeah
00:49:39
yeah i do
00:49:40
yeah
00:49:42
it's funny i did the itv games and
00:49:47
a youtuber who was called young philly
00:49:50
i'd never met him before but he's on the
00:49:53
first show
00:49:55
and he sees me before we go broadcasting
00:49:59
and he comes over and he starts doing
00:50:01
that he went you're a god
00:50:04
when
00:50:05
what
00:50:07
you know
00:50:08
i'm young philly pleased to meet you
00:50:12
do you know what icon you are for black
00:50:14
people
00:50:16
that went nah don't be darby you are
00:50:18
you're a trailblazer
00:50:20
you know you did tv before diversity
00:50:25
you know how did you get into tv when
00:50:29
you you know on sky sports and there was
00:50:32
no black people around and all that so
00:50:35
stuff you're an
00:50:36
icon and i went no i don't see myself as
00:50:39
uh anyway well you'd be my inspiration
00:50:43
so
00:50:44
makes you feel good for a second that's
00:50:46
worth it right yeah
00:50:49
and that alone that that thought that
00:50:51
you're inspiring people just by having
00:50:53
this conversation
00:50:54
and by sharing your story and being
00:50:56
honest and not running into the shadows
00:50:59
as you could have very easily done
00:51:02
is gonna help that and you probably
00:51:03
never get to meet them like you got to
00:51:04
meet young philly
00:51:07
hmm but that's got to be worth it right
00:51:08
yeah
00:51:10
yeah it was i didn't believe him but
00:51:13
yeah
00:51:15
he's got no reason to lie though
00:51:17
quick one as you might know crafted are
00:51:19
one of the sponsors of this podcast and
00:51:21
crafted are a jewellery brand and they
00:51:24
make really meaningful pieces of
00:51:26
jewellery and this piece by crafted when
00:51:28
i put it on for me it represents courage
00:51:31
it represents ambition it represents
00:51:33
being calm and loving and respectful and
00:51:36
nurturing while also being the
00:51:38
antithesis of that seemingly the
00:51:40
antithesis of that which is um sometimes
00:51:42
a little bit aggressive with my goals
00:51:44
and determined and courageous and brave
00:51:47
the really wonderful thing about crafty
00:51:48
jewelry is it's super affordable it
00:51:50
looks amazing the pieces hold tremendous
00:51:52
meaning and they are really well made
00:51:56
this next uh this next chapter
00:51:59
what what what do you want it to be full
00:52:01
of
00:52:04
my life has changed uh in terms of
00:52:07
grandkids
00:52:09
you know material things
00:52:12
don't matter anymore um
00:52:16
the love yeah for
00:52:19
you know your kids kids uh is something
00:52:23
else so
00:52:24
you know
00:52:25
i'm one of those now
00:52:27
even though i'm still working my main
00:52:31
priority is spending time with them
00:52:36
what advice would you give me
00:52:40
you know i just turned 30
00:52:41
last week
00:52:43
what advice would you give me i say it
00:52:45
to everyone
00:52:47
work hard and you'll succeed
00:52:50
don't ever turn down work
00:52:53
don't ever say on a job or this is hard
00:52:57
i don't like it anymore i can't do this
00:53:01
do it
00:53:02
do it and do it to the best of your
00:53:05
ability and see where it takes you you
00:53:08
know
00:53:09
tv
00:53:10
is
00:53:11
one of those jobs i think where if you
00:53:15
work hard enough you'll succeed
00:53:18
in football that's not the case you know
00:53:21
i've grown up in football and you
00:53:24
sometimes a lucky break is better
00:53:28
than working hard even you've still got
00:53:31
a workout but you need breaks
00:53:34
and of course you need breaks in tv but
00:53:37
if you work hard
00:53:39
i think you get them i started off at
00:53:42
sky
00:53:43
and so
00:53:46
people say how did you get into sky in
00:53:49
1998
00:53:51
well
00:53:51
initially
00:53:53
i was a pundit forum
00:53:57
i was lucky fortunate the first
00:54:00
broadcast of the
00:54:03
football league was sunderland versus
00:54:06
sheffield united at sheffield
00:54:09
and they rang me i was manager of the
00:54:12
month with bradford
00:54:14
in
00:54:15
[Music]
00:54:16
august we won four games and drew one
00:54:19
and they called me and said would you
00:54:21
come and be the pundit
00:54:24
so i said yeah sheffield down the road
00:54:27
from me and they said no
00:54:29
you've got to come into sky
00:54:33
in west london so i came all the way
00:54:35
down
00:54:36
marcus brooklyn the presenter who is his
00:54:40
first day and it was a double header six
00:54:44
hours of tv
00:54:46
obviously ads in between and all that
00:54:48
sort of stuff half time
00:54:51
and that and jerry francis was doing the
00:54:55
second game
00:54:56
so that's where fate took a hand
00:55:00
uh i did the first game sunderland won
00:55:03
at sheffield
00:55:04
and jerry francis got stuck on the m4 so
00:55:09
i did the double header so
00:55:12
from doing six hours of tv i became the
00:55:16
go-to guy then for sky so a live game
00:55:20
are you available
00:55:22
uh yeah i'll come down and do it and i
00:55:25
did that
00:55:26
and then when i got the sack from
00:55:29
bradford they asked
00:55:31
would i like a contract and i said no
00:55:34
but i like to keep my face in the shop
00:55:38
window
00:55:38
so i did one broadcast and then stoke
00:55:42
came along
00:55:44
and i got that job
00:55:47
and then that job turned sour pretty
00:55:50
quickly after three months
00:55:53
and uh
00:55:55
then
00:55:56
i just fell straight into sky
00:55:59
the broadcasting
00:56:01
and
00:56:02
so
00:56:04
eventually um
00:56:06
the 1999
00:56:10
the producer of soccer side he said
00:56:14
would you like to come and join the team
00:56:17
uh so i said yeah so you went would you
00:56:20
like to do some features for us
00:56:23
so i would actually go and train with
00:56:26
teams premier league teams you know can
00:56:29
you cannot imagine in a million years
00:56:33
that they let you in and train with the
00:56:35
players these days but i did that back
00:56:38
in the day 1990 you know so i'd go on
00:56:41
train joining the training with them
00:56:44
interview the managers the players shoot
00:56:47
the
00:56:48
and then i
00:56:49
went and edited those pieces
00:56:53
because i didn't want someone saying oh
00:56:55
yeah it's fine but you know the hard
00:56:58
work is done by the editor
00:57:01
so i would sit myself in a studio
00:57:07
and
00:57:08
sometimes it took six seven hours for a
00:57:12
four minute piece to edit it down
00:57:15
but i thought all right i don't want
00:57:17
anyone saying he's there by for all
00:57:20
hard work
00:57:21
and if you do that people see that
00:57:24
uh
00:57:26
it'll help not in all cases but in most
00:57:29
cases
00:57:31
that was the very start of what would go
00:57:32
on to be a legendary career in the media
00:57:34
um
00:57:35
i
00:57:36
when you look so you've given me one
00:57:38
reason now as to why you're successful
00:57:39
which is just the hard work and saying
00:57:40
yes
00:57:43
but the media business is also
00:57:45
it's much more complex than that in the
00:57:46
sense that hard work as you say is like
00:57:48
you definitely need to do it but
00:57:50
what was it about you
00:57:52
do you think that set you apart
00:57:56
as of as a in the media industry as a
00:57:58
broadcaster
00:57:59
i don't know that i'm still baffled by
00:58:02
that i went to ian condren's
00:58:06
uh
00:58:07
40th anniversary with his wife he was
00:58:10
ian was the producer of soccer sadie who
00:58:14
gave me the job
00:58:17
and
00:58:17
[Music]
00:58:18
i said
00:58:20
why you know
00:58:21
i'd seen you on doing other programs
00:58:25
punditry and so you'd be great for our
00:58:28
show
00:58:29
he said uh you know took a chance with
00:58:32
you and uh
00:58:35
and it works for 20 years
00:58:37
you mustn't you must have a suspicion
00:58:40
no no no at all you know i'm i was
00:58:44
allowed to be just me
00:58:46
so
00:58:47
i didn't have to work at it like i had
00:58:50
to work it
00:58:51
editing those pieces together you know
00:58:54
the training plan
00:58:56
uh interviewing the managers all came
00:58:59
natural yeah it was that hard work that
00:59:03
i wanted to prove that i could do um but
00:59:07
no
00:59:08
i was fortunate oh it was just me
00:59:13
and
00:59:16
when did you meet anne uh we met uh
00:59:21
when i was at swindon
00:59:23
uh i got transferred from
00:59:27
uh portsmouth
00:59:29
to swindon my first ever transfer
00:59:33
and uh
00:59:35
in 1978
00:59:37
[Music]
00:59:40
1978 yeah 1978
00:59:43
and uh we actually
00:59:46
played portsmouth
00:59:48
my first game
00:59:51
for swindon was
00:59:53
home to portsmouth
00:59:55
and
00:59:59
yeah i had to uh please escort to the
01:00:02
game um
01:00:04
the
01:00:05
uh club had been informed by the
01:00:08
intelligence
01:00:10
that the national front because
01:00:12
portsmouth had 200 national front
01:00:16
supports national front is this racist
01:00:18
organization from yeah couple decades
01:00:20
ago yeah
01:00:21
so
01:00:22
they'd got wind that they were
01:00:26
gonna do me in you know
01:00:28
um so uh
01:00:31
you know when i played for pompey there
01:00:33
was a small section of fans that
01:00:37
booed you onto the pitch because of your
01:00:39
color booed you off
01:00:41
you know but like i said back in those
01:00:44
days
01:00:45
i didn't care not one job you know and i
01:00:48
didn't care when they said about this
01:00:50
you know you're gonna be nothing and i
01:00:53
said oh it's just a threat don't worry
01:00:56
about it but the police intelligence
01:00:58
said no
01:00:59
we need to pick you up
01:01:02
and
01:01:04
take you to the game and drop you back
01:01:07
home
01:01:08
so i did and
01:01:10
uh he scored went to the year after 10
01:01:13
minutes
01:01:15
and not like today uh where
01:01:18
people don't celebrate uh of course
01:01:21
stupid me you know dad this death threat
01:01:24
goes straight because i scored in the
01:01:27
end where the pompey fans were
01:01:30
and
01:01:31
gave it all that
01:01:34
so uh
01:01:35
so yeah no
01:01:36
so uh the police escort wanted to take
01:01:40
me back to my dicks but i said no
01:01:43
leave it now it's fine
01:01:45
and uh one of my teammates
01:01:48
kenny stroud
01:01:50
his wife linda was with
01:01:53
uh this girl called on
01:01:56
uh and uh i asked her out and
01:02:00
you know 40 years later or 43
01:02:05
years later
01:02:06
we're still together
01:02:10
what a journey it's been
01:02:13
a long journey yeah
01:02:16
what does she mean to you
01:02:18
uh everything you know
01:02:21
it's
01:02:22
you take
01:02:24
wives from grant and all i did you know
01:02:27
i can't speak for everyone else
01:02:30
um
01:02:31
but it's only when
01:02:33
you have a problem like this because
01:02:36
you know
01:02:39
i
01:02:39
just live for today you know i'm fine
01:02:43
i'm you know i'm
01:02:45
no problems don't worry about me
01:02:47
so it's when you have a problem
01:02:51
um that you have to
01:02:53
you know look at your closest one and
01:02:56
see what they do for you and
01:02:59
how they react
01:03:00
to what you're going through which
01:03:04
you know
01:03:05
is difficult and then you feel
01:03:07
sad about you know not sharing things
01:03:11
before and keeping things away from
01:03:15
how did she react to all of this
01:03:18
um
01:03:19
she
01:03:20
she said
01:03:22
she thought for a while she didn't say
01:03:25
anything
01:03:26
she said she sought
01:03:29
uh for a while
01:03:31
there was something not quite right but
01:03:34
she couldn't put her finger on it
01:03:37
and she's been my rock you know now
01:03:41
you know
01:03:43
i don't i don't hardly you know this is
01:03:47
the longest i've spoken to anybody for a
01:03:50
long time you know
01:03:52
and you'll probably see when you edit
01:03:55
this tape
01:03:56
sometimes it's slow sometimes it's
01:03:59
coming out okay now it's coming out okay
01:04:02
and it feels fine you know and that's
01:04:05
all to do with the mind
01:04:08
maybe i'm talking about a good thing now
01:04:10
with ants so it's fine and it's free
01:04:14
so yeah she's
01:04:17
you know she's taking the
01:04:19
weight
01:04:20
uh a heavy weight of my shoulders
01:04:24
and
01:04:25
you know allowed me
01:04:27
to do what i do
01:04:29
to continue doing what i'm doing if i
01:04:33
want to do it
01:04:34
but she does say from time to time
01:04:37
you're allowed to say no to these jobs
01:04:40
that simon rings up and asked me to do
01:04:45
but i don't like to let anyone down
01:04:50
you know i think it's worth saying that
01:04:51
i think this this has been a really
01:04:52
really great conversation
01:04:54
um and uh
01:04:58
i'm actually quite surprised to hear
01:05:00
that of how much you struggled
01:05:02
previously based on with the
01:05:03
conversation we've had today
01:05:05
because i don't
01:05:06
um
01:05:08
i don't i don't know if i'm speaking out
01:05:10
turn here but had i not known about the
01:05:11
um the condition
01:05:13
this would have been a perfectly normal
01:05:15
conversation on this on this podcast so
01:05:17
it's really really interesting and
01:05:19
enlightening to
01:05:22
to learn more about it and i
01:05:24
yeah i can't imagine as from a family's
01:05:26
perspective as well going through that
01:05:28
journey with their father where you're
01:05:29
trying to find answers you find answers
01:05:31
and then there's that whole sort of
01:05:32
therapy process to get you back to where
01:05:34
you are and the mental health
01:05:36
journey that takes us on which we've not
01:05:38
really talked about in detail but
01:05:40
there's the curing the the condition but
01:05:42
then there's like living with the cost
01:05:44
of
01:05:44
the shift the tectonic shift in your
01:05:46
life
01:05:48
um
01:05:49
it consumed your mind or asda
01:05:52
mine
01:05:53
so
01:05:54
every day i wake up the first thing i
01:05:57
think
01:05:58
am i gonna be able to talk today you
01:06:02
know so
01:06:03
immediately i wake up i'll go in the
01:06:06
bathroom and i'll look in the mirror and
01:06:09
say a few words and
01:06:11
it's fine or i think it's fine
01:06:14
the perception is fine in my head and
01:06:17
then i'll go downstairs and
01:06:19
talk to anne and all of a sudden that
01:06:23
pathway is
01:06:24
restricted and oh god not again today
01:06:29
you know and that's been hard to get my
01:06:32
head around
01:06:33
and my therapist uh daniel
01:06:37
he says you exaggerate
01:06:40
in your mind you know that's the problem
01:06:43
because you've never had to think about
01:06:46
your speech now you're thinking and
01:06:49
you're overthinking so even though like
01:06:52
you've said
01:06:54
it seems fine to you in my head i know
01:06:57
that it's slower
01:06:59
than
01:07:01
it would have been had we spoken three
01:07:03
years ago
01:07:05
and that the cognition part the thoughts
01:07:07
that they're still the same
01:07:09
yeah they're they're lightning quick
01:07:11
yeah they're fine
01:07:13
so uh
01:07:15
they're there in terms of speech but
01:07:20
i have days where
01:07:23
if you're out and about or
01:07:26
even indoors there's nothing in the
01:07:29
brain area so
01:07:31
you know whereas
01:07:33
i could normally go into a room
01:07:37
did it all the
01:07:38
time
01:07:39
speak to everyone have a laugh that was
01:07:42
the first thing on my mind
01:07:44
now
01:07:45
that
01:07:46
part of it is hard work
01:07:49
and it feels hard work and it feels this
01:07:52
struggle and it doesn't feel natural
01:07:55
that's the worst thing
01:07:56
so i tend not to do it very often you
01:08:00
know unless
01:08:02
i'm feeling good i've you know
01:08:05
spoken to someone else and
01:08:08
i can tell it's fluid
01:08:10
uh the voice then i'll go in a room and
01:08:13
be myself again
01:08:17
chris we have a closing tradition on
01:08:18
this podcast yes where the um
01:08:21
last guest asks a question for the next
01:08:23
guest they don't know who they're
01:08:25
writing it for
01:08:26
and they'll never find out
01:08:29
um although i have said their name
01:08:31
earlier on so you might be able to
01:08:32
figure it out right
01:08:34
but um
01:08:36
the question they've written for you is
01:08:42
i'm going to read it verbatim what has
01:08:44
been the most happiest
01:08:46
moment of your life
01:08:52
full stop brought you the most joy
01:08:55
and why
01:08:57
uh is that kids aside
01:09:00
or let's say kids aside because yeah
01:09:02
yeah yeah kids aside
01:09:05
uh achieving my ambition and my dream
01:09:10
yeah
01:09:12
i can you know as a young black kid
01:09:16
playing
01:09:17
on the fields around where i live
01:09:21
thinking that one day
01:09:23
i'll play an awesome park for
01:09:26
middlesbrough and ellen wrote four leads
01:09:30
it's blown my mind away you
01:09:32
know uh ambition and dream
01:09:36
achieved
01:09:40
chris thank you i am i have no doubt
01:09:42
that
01:09:43
your ambitions and dreams are are just
01:09:45
getting started because you have all of
01:09:47
the the core the minerals that it are
01:09:49
required to achieve pretty much anything
01:09:51
and you've shown that your life has been
01:09:52
a testament to that even in the face of
01:09:53
great adversity
01:09:55
thank you i thank you not just for
01:09:56
myself and for you giving me your time
01:09:57
today but
01:09:59
um i don't think you realize how many
01:10:01
people you're going to help in a really
01:10:02
important profound way how much pain
01:10:05
you're going to alleviate from them how
01:10:06
you're going to make them feel seen and
01:10:07
understood just by doing this today and
01:10:10
just by not hiding in the shadows thank
01:10:12
you so thank you and thank you for all
01:10:14
the joy you've brought me you've made
01:10:15
football fun
01:10:16
you've made it um
01:10:18
made me understand the game better over
01:10:20
the course of pretty much my entire life
01:10:22
um so i'm for one i'm so glad that i
01:10:24
still get to see you on the screens and
01:10:26
i hope to see you a lot more i know you
01:10:27
guys showed ninja warrior uk race for
01:10:29
glory um which is airing on itv which
01:10:32
i'm very excited about watching as well
01:10:34
yeah i'm so glad i did it you know i
01:10:37
tried to pull out
01:10:39
when they rang me and said
01:10:41
we've been commissioned for series seven
01:10:45
i went oh no and they what what do you
01:10:48
mean oh no now when oh no you're not
01:10:51
getting the old coming they said oh
01:10:54
don't worry about it
01:10:55
and uh
01:10:57
i've watched a bit of the first episode
01:11:01
and even though it don't sound like me
01:11:04
it's passable you know so
01:11:07
yeah i hope people enjoy it well as you
01:11:10
said 25 percent of you is better than
01:11:12
pretty much most anyone else so
01:11:14
we'll take that thank you so much chris
01:11:16
thanks
01:11:17
i had a few words to say about one of my
01:11:19
sponsors on this podcast for many years
01:11:21
people have been asking for a coffee
01:11:24
flavored huel and quite recently he'll
01:11:27
release the iced coffee caramel flavor
01:11:29
of their um ready-to-drink heels and
01:11:31
i've just become hooked on it over the
01:11:33
last couple of weeks i've been on a
01:11:34
really interesting journey with huel
01:11:36
which i've described and talked about a
01:11:37
little bit on this podcast i started
01:11:39
with the berry ready to drinks then i
01:11:41
moved over to the protein salted caramel
01:11:43
because it's 100 calories and it gives
01:11:45
you all of your essential vitamins and
01:11:46
minerals but also gives you the 20 odd
01:11:48
grams of protein you need and now i'm
01:11:50
balanced between them both i drink
01:11:52
mostly the banana flavor ready to drink
01:11:54
i've got really into the iced coffee
01:11:56
caramel um flavor of heels ready to
01:11:58
drink and now i'm drinking that as well
01:12:00
as the protein make sure you try the new
01:12:02
ready to drink flavors the caramel
01:12:04
flavor is amazing the new banana flavor
01:12:07
as well as amazing and obviously as i
01:12:09
said the iced coffee caramel flavor has
01:12:11
been a real smash here so check it out
01:12:13
let me know what you think on social
01:12:15
media i see all of your tags and
01:12:16
instagram posts and tweets about huell
01:12:19
[Music]
