00:00:00
they would be though screaming at you at
00:00:02
half time they'd be screaming you at the
00:00:04
end of the game
00:00:08
told of that
00:00:13
David the Messiah boy is one of the best
00:00:15
known football managers across the globe
00:00:17
building teams with a clear identity
00:00:20
I was desperate to be successful as a
00:00:23
manager and I had 11 years where you'll
00:00:25
find it really difficult to break into
00:00:27
the top four the phone line who said
00:00:29
Alex and he said I'm retiring and you're
00:00:32
the next manager of Manchester United a
00:00:34
new interview not saying would you like
00:00:37
to be I met Edward on the next day back
00:00:39
to his house again we met the Glazer it
00:00:41
was three days and that was as simple as
00:00:43
that to get that offer from the greatest
00:00:45
manager maybe it ever was was a great
00:00:47
compliment but maybe if I'd really
00:00:49
looked into more detail and more depth
00:00:51
there was a huge change going to have to
00:00:53
take place I trusted Manchester United
00:00:55
do you feel like that trust was let down
00:00:58
definitely but my biggest regret was
00:01:01
we start with the story that has
00:01:03
dominated the front pages the sacking of
00:01:05
David Moyes how did you find out that
00:01:07
you're losing your job media oh really
00:01:09
if you've got any class or any style you
00:01:12
have to give bad news wheel
00:01:15
what are those steps forward to get West
00:01:17
Ham competing at the very top of the
00:01:19
table I want to build a new West Ham a
00:01:21
lot of supporters might not like the
00:01:23
sort of that when you look at where West
00:01:24
Ham is now do you worry about losing
00:01:26
your job I've got to see it
00:01:31
before this episode starts I have a
00:01:33
small favor to ask from you two months
00:01:35
ago 74 of people that watch this channel
00:01:37
didn't subscribe we're now down to 69 my
00:01:42
goal is 50 so if you've ever liked any
00:01:44
of the videos we've posted if you like
00:01:46
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00:01:47
and hit the Subscribe button it helps
00:01:49
this channel more than you know and the
00:01:51
bigger the channel gets as you've seen
00:01:52
the bigger the guests get thank you and
00:01:54
enjoy this episode
00:01:55
[Music]
00:02:04
take me back to the context that I need
00:02:07
to understand in order to understand you
00:02:09
take me back to Glasgow
00:02:11
1960s yes
00:02:14
I was in a really good family
00:02:16
who were really important and you're
00:02:18
probably going to be talking a lot about
00:02:19
it now but uh we were a
00:02:23
family who we stayed in the West End of
00:02:25
Glasgow in a tournament building
00:02:28
and uh we used to have to you know go up
00:02:30
this up the tournament and if people who
00:02:31
don't know what a tournament is a
00:02:32
tournament is a you know what we would
00:02:34
probably think I bought block of flats
00:02:36
and you got the tournament
00:02:38
and they were never in Glasgow that at
00:02:39
that time very very uh good to look at
00:02:42
people look down on them a little bit
00:02:45
but it was a great upbringing for me
00:02:47
that allowed me to play my football out
00:02:49
in the street which at that time was was
00:02:51
some which everybody considered you know
00:02:53
Street footballers everybody played
00:02:55
football on the street and everybody in
00:02:56
Glasgow did play football in the street
00:02:58
played in the park
00:03:00
so I started in Glasgow in the West End
00:03:02
and that was probably where me and my
00:03:04
family grew up your father's also called
00:03:07
David he certainly is yeah
00:03:10
what did he do for a living
00:03:12
and how did that influence well well
00:03:14
this is probably is a really good
00:03:15
question to me if for me is because but
00:03:18
that actually was a teacher but he
00:03:20
worked in the shipyards in in Glasgow
00:03:22
which was really important so he walked
00:03:25
in the as a shipbuilder and then he went
00:03:27
on to become a teacher in a college
00:03:29
but meanwhile what he'd done in in his
00:03:31
part of his other job was that he was a
00:03:34
an amateur Football Manager and there
00:03:37
was a very famous boys club team in
00:03:38
Glasgow called from Chapel amateurs
00:03:41
which was very famous and really is uh
00:03:44
all my memories come with my Dad running
00:03:46
one of the teams at Drum Shop armatures
00:03:49
now for the people who don't know you
00:03:51
know there's people like uh Sir Alex
00:03:52
Ferguson played with him Chapel amateurs
00:03:54
there was people like uh ASA Hartford
00:03:56
played for Trump and she was John Watt
00:03:58
was a Scottish International so it was a
00:04:01
very very famous boys club
00:04:03
uh my dad also ran uh the college where
00:04:07
he teached my dad was a teacher at
00:04:08
Annie's Land College which was a college
00:04:10
in Glasgow
00:04:11
and he uh he took the team every
00:04:13
Saturday morning and then he took the
00:04:15
amateur football team every Saturday
00:04:16
afternoon you've got to remember this
00:04:18
result well there was no no money
00:04:19
involved in this
00:04:21
so really part of my life was seen my
00:04:23
dad grow up as
00:04:25
a football manager for amateurs uh
00:04:29
but meanwhile his real job was that he
00:04:31
was a teacher at Town Eastland College
00:04:34
did that make you want to pursue that as
00:04:36
a career at that time or what what kind
00:04:38
of influence has that had on you in
00:04:39
hindsight
00:04:40
well I think when I look back now I'd
00:04:42
say to say to I think your parents are
00:04:44
viewed a huge influence and everything
00:04:46
you do
00:04:47
for different reasons
00:04:49
mine definitely did but I don't think
00:04:50
when you're growing up as a boy you're
00:04:52
thinking that you know I'm going to be
00:04:54
influenced too much by my dad or my mom
00:04:56
you don't think that's you get a bit
00:04:57
older yourself and when you look back
00:04:58
you go wow I can't believe that I'm
00:05:01
quite similar to my dad or I can't
00:05:03
believe it I followed my mum
00:05:05
and going back to that you know my mom
00:05:07
was part of it as well my mum had to
00:05:08
wash the strips and hang them up outside
00:05:10
and you know and then she'd have to wash
00:05:13
them and I she'd wash them and iron them
00:05:15
and I'd be folding them and put them
00:05:16
away so probably from a really young boy
00:05:19
I was watching my dad and my mum
00:05:22
uh help help young young boys at that
00:05:25
time no fulfill go for a game of
00:05:27
football hopefully they were all home to
00:05:29
going to become professional footballers
00:05:31
but if not try and be successful playing
00:05:33
for for the boys team in Glasgow at that
00:05:35
time one of the things we do tend to
00:05:37
pick up from our parents from what I've
00:05:38
seen and I certainly did myself was
00:05:41
I guess like principles and values of
00:05:45
like how to approach life and how to
00:05:47
deal with life
00:05:48
um what were those principles and values
00:05:50
that your parents imparted on you
00:05:52
directly or indirectly from observation
00:05:54
about life and how to deal with it and
00:05:56
how to confront it
00:05:59
well I think your parents will always
00:06:01
influence you in some way
00:06:03
um I was sent to church when I was when
00:06:05
I was younger so I went to church a lot
00:06:08
of people were
00:06:09
and I think that probably had an
00:06:11
influence as well in its own way in the
00:06:12
in the early days but I think more to do
00:06:15
with schooling uh more to do with uh
00:06:19
education and and what they they try to
00:06:21
do and to be fair
00:06:23
none of them I was never pushed on
00:06:24
innocent I was never pushed to know to
00:06:27
be that well educated I was never pushed
00:06:29
out to be a great football player they
00:06:31
were just encouraging really and always
00:06:33
daily support so I had parents who
00:06:35
really let me grow up the way the way I
00:06:37
chose to do so but everything was Guided
00:06:40
by them you know respect uh no trust you
00:06:45
know
00:06:46
trying to be truthful all the time all
00:06:48
those things I think come into a good
00:06:50
relationship did you ever have a you
00:06:52
kind of suggested there that they
00:06:53
weren't necessarily like pushy parents
00:06:54
necessarily but did you ever have any
00:06:56
idea of what career or aspiration would
00:07:00
make them proud
00:07:01
if I'd asked you you know what does your
00:07:03
mum or dad want you to be when you're
00:07:05
older when you're younger what would you
00:07:07
said uh I think my dad would have
00:07:10
definitely said I hope you're a
00:07:11
footballer you know I think that I think
00:07:13
my dad would have always probably
00:07:14
thought that he's a great love of
00:07:16
football as well
00:07:17
but I think they were they were always
00:07:19
really supportive in in anything I
00:07:22
wanted to do but I think you know as I
00:07:24
get as I got on and I got to an age
00:07:26
where I was starting to get coarse I
00:07:27
know 12 or 13 I think football was
00:07:30
probably my my biggest sort of love and
00:07:32
what I wanted to do and I was more
00:07:34
interested in either watching football
00:07:36
playing football
00:07:37
and there and that was probably they
00:07:41
probably saw that around about that age
00:07:42
as well and is it sort of 12 12 years
00:07:45
old you were in Celtics Youth System
00:07:47
yeah it was what it was is it that time
00:07:50
Celtic Celtic had a boys club and you
00:07:52
have to remember my dad also as I said
00:07:54
ran a very very famous boys team or one
00:07:57
of the teams in in Glasgow and drum
00:07:59
Chapel Armature so but I went to Celtic
00:08:01
boys club uh
00:08:03
and applied with Celtic boys club from
00:08:05
Mob is about 12 to 16 till went on but
00:08:08
they were they were brilliant years I
00:08:11
had there
00:08:12
you know the my time at cell taken which
00:08:15
uh you know came after as a player in a
00:08:18
and as a you know a senior professional
00:08:21
not a senior professional but a
00:08:22
professional I should say but the Young
00:08:24
The Young period when I was at Celtic
00:08:26
boys club was I can only remember being
00:08:28
winning things and being really
00:08:30
successful and you know representing no
00:08:33
Glasgow schools as a school board as
00:08:35
representing Scotland school schools as
00:08:37
a Schoolboy International so I had
00:08:39
really really uh good days in the early
00:08:41
days probably from 1459 onwards did you
00:08:45
if I'd asked you even at that age so say
00:08:47
when you were 16 if I'd asked you
00:08:50
about your Ambitions in football
00:08:53
what would you have responded with uh
00:08:56
I I hope that I might have been good
00:08:58
enough to to become a player I'm not
00:09:00
sure I would be uh
00:09:03
and I would love to be involved in
00:09:05
football and I always used to think that
00:09:07
you know
00:09:08
I'm hoping that maybe I could run an
00:09:10
amateur team or I could be involved I
00:09:11
could maybe might be good enough to take
00:09:13
a junior team you know might get paid a
00:09:15
little bit of money
00:09:17
you know maybe maybe I'd become a youth
00:09:19
team coach for someday if if you know if
00:09:20
I wasn't going to be a football player
00:09:22
always thought even at that time when we
00:09:25
were growing up was like lots of use
00:09:26
clubs no so we would go to a school
00:09:28
youth club you know because it was where
00:09:30
you'd be getting my table tennis you'd
00:09:31
play pool you know the gym might be then
00:09:34
you play five aside football no whoever
00:09:37
was there it's always thought well maybe
00:09:39
I might be able to use club or something
00:09:40
if I didn't get her if I didn't get any
00:09:42
more better than that so those early
00:09:45
days there was no guarantee that you
00:09:46
were going to become a footballer if
00:09:48
everybody really wanted to become a
00:09:50
footballer what did you learn from your
00:09:52
dad as a manager is there anything even
00:09:54
today where you think I think I've got
00:09:55
that from my dad or that trait or that
00:09:56
yeah
00:09:57
planning yeah organization
00:10:01
commitment
00:10:03
and if I just talk about planning you
00:10:06
know at that time
00:10:07
there was no mobile phones then so it
00:10:09
was it was a phone so he'd be phoning
00:10:11
all the playoffs they say look we're
00:10:13
playing on Saturday I want you to meet
00:10:14
at 12 30 we're meeting wherever it was
00:10:17
and at that time they all had to come at
00:10:20
times with the same with a shot and tie
00:10:22
on they had to bring her back you know
00:10:24
they all had to come with the same bag
00:10:27
shot in time you've got to remember this
00:10:28
is Glasgow in a time when you know
00:10:30
people well people had to turn up we're
00:10:31
calling tie on if you didn't turn up
00:10:33
with your car and tie on you might not
00:10:35
get selected for a game so small things
00:10:37
like this
00:10:38
if you're talking about maybe
00:10:39
disciplines or or ways you were brought
00:10:41
up I think possibly I picked up a lot of
00:10:44
the traits probably early on why does
00:10:46
that matter where do the small things
00:10:47
matter shirt and tie
00:10:50
uh do you think they matter I guess is
00:10:52
another yeah I do I think they really do
00:10:54
matter
00:10:54
I think sometimes I mean and I have to
00:10:57
say in if you if you jumped onto this my
00:10:59
senior time I think
00:11:00
I think they've always looked better I
00:11:02
think players people have always looked
00:11:04
better if they dress well and they
00:11:06
they're correct they look prepared for
00:11:07
the games
00:11:09
I jumped to Manchester United just
00:11:10
currently in Signal Manchester United
00:11:13
had a rule which Sir Alex had that they
00:11:15
would always turn up for away games and
00:11:17
shutting ties now most teams would
00:11:20
rather turn up the tracksuit players can
00:11:22
come more casual but Manchester United
00:11:24
always turned up uh with a shot and tie
00:11:26
on which I thought was a great thing
00:11:28
because they wanted to show what they
00:11:29
were wanted to come out there and say
00:11:31
look the way we look the way we approach
00:11:33
it you look at this Manchester United
00:11:35
and I I've got to say I really admired
00:11:37
admired that part of it
00:11:40
it's interesting it's an interesting
00:11:42
small psychological advantage isn't it
00:11:44
to some degree if
00:11:45
I guess it's a statement of
00:11:46
professionalism and
00:11:48
attention to detail before the before
00:11:50
the ball's even kicked
00:11:52
yes and uh you know so that takes me
00:11:55
back so you're saying is no maybe Sir
00:11:58
Alex who played with from Chapel
00:11:59
amateurs maybe maybe it picked up from
00:12:01
his timing from Chapel Armature so you
00:12:02
know the way they they they had to turn
00:12:05
up shut the ties on and they had a
00:12:07
Blazer on
00:12:08
and again let's reaches the number to
00:12:10
football team in Glasgow you you um you
00:12:13
played with many many clubs over your
00:12:14
almost 600 career
00:12:18
um games
00:12:19
a few across a variety of different
00:12:21
divisions
00:12:22
um
00:12:23
that time working as a player across
00:12:26
multiple clubs and multiple divisions
00:12:28
what did that teach you and it's always
00:12:30
useful to get a variety of different
00:12:32
experiences so that you can kind of
00:12:33
create your own perspective on on the
00:12:35
world but what did that teach you those
00:12:36
600 games as a player
00:12:38
what are the fundamentals the
00:12:40
fundamentals where I learned so much but
00:12:43
my but my early days when it when I
00:12:45
started at Celtic was probably engraved
00:12:48
in me more than anything because Celtic
00:12:51
is an incredible tradition of winning
00:12:52
you know winning now obviously Celtic
00:12:55
had to win with style as well celt it
00:12:56
were you know the biggest cobweight
00:12:58
Rangers in Glasgow in in Scotland I
00:13:01
should say and and because of that
00:13:02
Celtic had to to win was always so
00:13:05
important so oh no I could see that
00:13:06
there was the first team there was the
00:13:08
reserves there was the the youth team
00:13:09
and all the managers were under pressure
00:13:11
to win then if you did win then it was
00:13:15
and what was the score you won one
00:13:16
nothing that's not good enough you need
00:13:18
to win you need to win three or four
00:13:20
nothing you need to win buy more codes
00:13:22
and how did you play well we didn't play
00:13:24
that well we scored the known it was a
00:13:26
Scorpio not good enough you have to win
00:13:27
with style so I think my early days I
00:13:30
would I was brought up with brilliant
00:13:32
footballers
00:13:34
people who
00:13:36
showed me
00:13:37
I don't know if you want to call it a
00:13:39
philosophy because philosophy might be
00:13:40
much deeper and might offer much more
00:13:43
but it gave me some way how do you say
00:13:44
well I have to win I have to find a way
00:13:46
of winning you know if I can win with
00:13:48
style that's even better but more
00:13:50
importantly I have to find a way of
00:13:51
winning and I picked that up probably my
00:13:53
early days at Celtic and I wasn't near
00:13:55
that long
00:13:56
no that wasn't here that long but I
00:13:57
wasn't here that long probably as a
00:13:59
senior player I moved on and ended up
00:14:01
bobbing around the championship in a
00:14:03
couple of lower leagues in England for a
00:14:05
long time
00:14:06
but I come across some some really great
00:14:09
managers
00:14:10
uh I can't come across so much we aren't
00:14:12
so good
00:14:13
but you know I always try to be
00:14:16
respectful to any of them because that
00:14:17
came from from my background in my my
00:14:19
upbringing
00:14:21
but I also was trying to pick up
00:14:23
everything I could in
00:14:25
when I was
00:14:27
20
00:14:29
I had already qualified as a as a
00:14:33
full-time fill a license coach at the
00:14:35
time you know to be a coach you had to
00:14:37
have an a license it was called
00:14:39
uh now you have to have a pro license
00:14:41
but you have to was it was an e-license
00:14:43
I'd qualified as a coach when I was 20
00:14:45
21.
00:14:47
which was unusual the reason I'd done
00:14:48
that was because
00:14:50
the coaching courses were
00:14:52
obviously full of really experienced
00:14:54
managers feel a really lots of players
00:14:57
trying to get into management the only
00:14:59
reason I went and done it was home that
00:15:00
would become a better player I thought
00:15:01
that if I went on these coaching courses
00:15:04
it'll help me become even better as a
00:15:06
player and I had a I had a really good
00:15:08
career but not quite at the only level
00:15:11
which uh I really wanted to be whose
00:15:13
idea was that to go and do a coaching
00:15:15
course at 20 years old to improve
00:15:16
yourself as a player uh my own because I
00:15:19
thought that maybe I'd find out more
00:15:21
about it but I have to say
00:15:23
there was a thing when we were we were
00:15:24
young players we were when we were 16
00:15:27
bit Celtic we were sent
00:15:30
to the courses to help the coaches so we
00:15:32
were called the runners so we were down
00:15:34
here to do all the running you know you
00:15:37
had to do all the running you had to be
00:15:38
a feel bad you had to remember Midfield
00:15:39
player and you and all the practices
00:15:41
were put on for the coaches
00:15:43
and uh
00:15:45
no Scotland had great great coaches at
00:15:48
the time you know people people at Sir
00:15:49
Alex Jim McLean you know Walter Smith
00:15:51
you know what I could go on and on
00:15:53
Scotland did brilliant coaches without
00:15:55
naming the likes of jockstein and
00:15:57
no bill shankly and and what you could
00:16:00
go on and on George Green for example
00:16:03
so I I was sent down by Celtic and I was
00:16:05
one of the runners for a couple years
00:16:07
and once I was down I said oh I want
00:16:09
more of this I want to be around
00:16:09
football people I loved listening to
00:16:12
them
00:16:13
I hoped I would impress some of them who
00:16:15
were who were managers of really big
00:16:17
clubs at the time
00:16:19
and that's what I thought well no I'm
00:16:20
gonna go and do my badges myself and
00:16:22
went on to went on to do them in
00:16:24
Scotland well your time at Celtic um in
00:16:27
the first team when you got signed there
00:16:29
was three years right you were in Celtic
00:16:31
yeah yeah
00:16:32
you then got to experience other
00:16:33
cultures and clubs but you you cite
00:16:36
Celtic as having that sort of winning
00:16:37
mentality that some clubs just have
00:16:40
where they're almost you know yeah
00:16:41
they're just they get used they like
00:16:43
develop the habit of winning
00:16:45
throughout your career you've been in
00:16:46
clubs that have the habit of winning
00:16:48
um but also clubs that maybe have
00:16:50
struggled in the opposite direction and
00:16:52
don't have that culture of we always win
00:16:53
every game when you think about the
00:16:55
clubs you've worked in that have that
00:16:56
habit of winning like Celtic did what is
00:16:59
that how is where does that come from
00:17:01
and what what does it look like and feel
00:17:02
like
00:17:05
it it looks like you walk in every
00:17:08
morning with your chest
00:17:10
out in your head high
00:17:12
and you saw confident in what you're
00:17:15
doing there's a a motivation to keep it
00:17:18
going not to let it drop
00:17:20
there's a
00:17:22
something about having to continue to
00:17:24
improve to stay at the top that you
00:17:26
can't just do what you're doing which is
00:17:27
going to keep you there forever you have
00:17:29
to keep trying to find a way of doing so
00:17:32
I I did see that and I feel that and
00:17:34
I've seen it at other clubs since
00:17:36
but I have to say I think on the journey
00:17:38
to probably
00:17:39
where I am today is probably more that
00:17:41
seeing a lot of the other side as well
00:17:44
is actually the bit which you know I've
00:17:46
been a cop so I've been getting
00:17:47
relegated I've been at cops but I can't
00:17:49
win I've been at clubs where you know
00:17:51
it's not going well but it comes with us
00:17:53
you know it's it's not been as powerful
00:17:56
as as say a couple at Celtic
00:17:58
so I think I think you have to see a
00:18:02
all round for you to give yourself the
00:18:04
best the best chance and I keep saying
00:18:05
as you know
00:18:06
to do to get to become a football
00:18:09
manager
00:18:10
I don't think there's any one plan you
00:18:12
could be the best player on the planet
00:18:13
and not become a football manager
00:18:16
you could be someone who's never played
00:18:18
the game and become incredibly
00:18:19
successful as a football manager so
00:18:21
I don't think that's necessarily one way
00:18:23
you do it I'm really intrigued by this
00:18:25
this idea of like cultures at clubs and
00:18:28
within teams and how you can just feel
00:18:29
it almost when when a club has that
00:18:31
momentum and they were winning team and
00:18:33
when they don't
00:18:34
um on the on the country then when we're
00:18:35
thinking about teams that are struggling
00:18:37
that aren't performing well
00:18:39
um
00:18:40
what are the signs of that now Rio said
00:18:43
something really interesting was it real
00:18:44
wasn't Gary Gary Neville said something
00:18:46
interesting to me he said that when he
00:18:48
was a
00:18:49
um Manchester United Sir Alex Ferguson
00:18:52
only came into the dressing training
00:18:53
ground dressing room twice
00:18:55
and he said he never needed to come in
00:18:56
there because the culture was in there
00:18:57
yeah so if like when Berbatov came over
00:18:59
and wasn't fitting the culture the
00:19:00
players would correct him he then says
00:19:02
when he went to QPR
00:19:04
when the manager left the changing room
00:19:05
everyone was talking about their wages
00:19:07
and where they're going next you could
00:19:09
you can feel that like yeah there is a
00:19:12
difference I actually think the culture
00:19:14
I mean
00:19:15
that that team you're talking about
00:19:17
Manchester United where we had
00:19:18
incredible players and you know I
00:19:21
wouldn't say self-made because they had
00:19:22
they had a great manager but if you want
00:19:25
now if I moved to just now I'd be seen
00:19:27
as
00:19:27
just much more communication in life now
00:19:30
I came from background it was really
00:19:32
tough the Scottish managers you know
00:19:33
they
00:19:34
probably the working background we came
00:19:37
from uh they they would be out screaming
00:19:41
at you at half time they'd be screaming
00:19:43
you at the end of the game you know they
00:19:44
would be
00:19:46
there would be they'd be after you if
00:19:48
you didn't do well I don't think that
00:19:50
culture's there and I don't think I
00:19:52
think it's changed completely in
00:19:53
Scottish managers and if you look a bit
00:19:55
Scottish money just probably over
00:19:56
history Scotland had lots of managers in
00:19:59
English Premier League for example
00:20:01
very few now and it might be that we're
00:20:04
having to change your culture so going
00:20:05
back to a little bit where you're
00:20:06
talking about Rio said get in there I
00:20:08
think there was a period where the
00:20:10
players looked after themselves or they
00:20:11
could take the hard hitting hair dryer
00:20:14
treatment if you want to call it that
00:20:16
no I think it's a completely different
00:20:18
culture now whether we've changed or
00:20:21
whether I feel as if management is not
00:20:24
necessarily in that form I don't think I
00:20:28
don't know maybe you Steve you tell me
00:20:30
even better your head of businesses
00:20:31
would you go in and be screaming or
00:20:33
Bloom Lobster at your staff now do you
00:20:35
know what the thing one of my actually I
00:20:37
think is an advantage is I didn't grow
00:20:39
up in that culture yes so I've never
00:20:42
known it I've never known the prospect
00:20:43
of like coming into work and like as you
00:20:46
hear about it in some old businesses
00:20:47
where like the CEO would come in and
00:20:49
throw things and throw the table over
00:20:50
and stuff yeah I just never grew up in
00:20:52
that environment I grew up in a sort of
00:20:54
a societal expectation that a manager is
00:20:57
like
00:20:58
you know might be tough and sometimes
00:21:00
but it's fairly nice yeah there's no
00:21:02
like big glass office that I sit in away
00:21:04
from my team members it's a different
00:21:05
world these days well as you relate you
00:21:08
were talking about there you said that
00:21:09
it's kind of a different world in
00:21:10
management you've been in you know the
00:21:12
job since you were I guess 20 in your
00:21:15
early 20s you're 59 now I'm 59 and I've
00:21:18
probably been in management since I was
00:21:20
early 30s or when I started and then so
00:21:24
25 30 years
00:21:26
um you talk about the change that you've
00:21:27
seen in the approach that is effective
00:21:30
now
00:21:31
what is effective now if if Once Upon a
00:21:34
Time Scottish managers could come in and
00:21:36
hair dryer it and scream whatever
00:21:37
whatever how is the approach changed in
00:21:39
your view well let me tell you I
00:21:41
remember I remember one of the managers
00:21:42
coming in
00:21:43
to the dressing room
00:21:45
and I always said is don't look up just
00:21:48
look at the floor look at your boots
00:21:49
look down because if you catch his eyes
00:21:52
he's going to come for you so so it used
00:21:54
to be don't woke up so that it couldn't
00:21:56
have any eye contact with you and you
00:21:58
had to you know and you'd probably put
00:22:00
your head in a towel so that he couldn't
00:22:02
see in an air because that was the way
00:22:05
it was we were it was that and I think
00:22:07
that I probably had a lot of that in me
00:22:09
when I first started
00:22:12
but the difference now is as I think
00:22:15
we're in a different and maybe maybe
00:22:17
yourself or maybe you'll understand it's
00:22:19
a different era so as a coach and as a
00:22:21
manager and as a manner I think you need
00:22:23
to find a way how you're moving on with
00:22:25
that or you'd be left behind and I've
00:22:27
got to say I think in my position I've
00:22:29
got to admit I have to keep trying to uh
00:22:32
keep up renew invest in more work and
00:22:36
find out how it's going on there's so
00:22:38
many new things and it that don't get me
00:22:41
wrong that doesn't mean that I've still
00:22:42
not got the bit of
00:22:45
I can get in me when I think the players
00:22:46
need it and I actually think that
00:22:49
I like not like it
00:22:51
I think sometimes like I think I think
00:22:53
people want to be told the truth
00:22:55
and I think one of the the worst things
00:22:57
you can do to people is is I think if
00:22:59
you keep praising people all the time
00:23:02
I think it makes you soft as well so I
00:23:04
think there's a level of Praise You can
00:23:06
give people but I think you've also got
00:23:08
to be really tough with your Trace as
00:23:09
well and I actually think that as I've
00:23:11
got older I've become better and giving
00:23:13
praise I think there's some of my
00:23:15
players I'm sure Everton would say that
00:23:17
I very rarely gave them praise because I
00:23:19
I was always looking for better from
00:23:21
them
00:23:22
you know over the last when I've been in
00:23:24
business what 10 years or something
00:23:26
um not not as long as you in terms of
00:23:28
management but um even I've started to
00:23:30
notice some like warning signs in people
00:23:33
so like if I see this in the interview
00:23:35
process I go uh well I've been I saw
00:23:37
this before and then it ended in this
00:23:39
way like pattern recognition yeah you've
00:23:41
talked a lot about I've read a lot about
00:23:43
your scouting process how you find great
00:23:44
talent great players
00:23:46
what are the things you look for in the
00:23:48
things that you consider to be warning
00:23:49
signs
00:23:50
I always wanted someone who I thought
00:23:53
was putting in effort okay I always
00:23:57
thought that and they might say well how
00:23:58
can that come in front of many other
00:24:00
things well
00:24:01
I can think of many probably you and
00:24:03
you'll think of plenty of school boys
00:24:05
friends who were truly talented player
00:24:07
but baby didn't weren't dedicated and
00:24:09
put in the effort to didn't do the work
00:24:11
I think if you don't put the effort in
00:24:12
the dedication to it then and the other
00:24:15
thing what I use a lot of is you know if
00:24:16
you don't love the game completely
00:24:19
then you'll probably find it really do I
00:24:21
think you'll find it really difficult to
00:24:23
become a manager if you don't love the
00:24:24
game with or have real longevity I think
00:24:27
you could be a player and maybe get
00:24:29
through your your career 10 15 years as
00:24:31
a player with maybe without loving
00:24:33
football but I think if you want to go
00:24:35
longer I think you've badly got it love
00:24:37
love the business
00:24:39
when I became manager of everything but
00:24:41
I did it before I used to always meet
00:24:42
the players and I still do if I can
00:24:45
you nearly wanted to see their eyes to
00:24:47
see
00:24:48
I need you to work hard I need you to
00:24:51
know to do this job for the team I'd
00:24:54
like to see a you're going to take that
00:24:56
I'm going to be critical of you and I
00:24:57
want you to get better are you happy
00:24:58
with it you nearly wanted to put the
00:25:00
questions over to them to see if they
00:25:02
were going to take it did you I did too
00:25:05
many for us and I've I've got to say
00:25:08
we've had quite a few of the time which
00:25:10
I've got to say who I've had in my house
00:25:12
who have had in uh
00:25:15
offices and we've probably not taken
00:25:17
them sometimes because a bit like you
00:25:19
said sometimes something just makes you
00:25:21
go that's just not what I quite wanted
00:25:23
to hear
00:25:25
and that might only be a gut and it
00:25:28
might not it might have no reason to buy
00:25:30
some of the boys I'm talking about I've
00:25:31
gone on to be Superstars and play for
00:25:33
another time but something at the moment
00:25:35
can only give you that little bit of gut
00:25:36
feeling if you think it it sounds like
00:25:38
it's going to fit for you
00:25:42
I'm not saying you get it right but I
00:25:44
think at that time you have to have your
00:25:45
own
00:25:47
things were you say no I'm not going to
00:25:49
change this is what I want to do and I
00:25:50
want to keep it this way and I some of
00:25:52
I've missed out on some
00:25:54
how does that process work if you're
00:25:55
looking let's say you're looking for a
00:25:56
striker what's the process you know
00:25:58
because we've heard some I I don't mean
00:26:00
we're only understanding of like signing
00:26:02
players is playing like football manager
00:26:03
on the on the PlayStation or whatever
00:26:04
but I have in my head you have all these
00:26:07
Scouts they produce reports yeah and
00:26:09
then do you know what position you want
00:26:11
to fill do you go to the Scout or what
00:26:13
happens uh I think you in the main the
00:26:15
scouts will probably bring them to you I
00:26:17
mean look if it's somebody playing for
00:26:19
one of the teams locally or that and is
00:26:21
available and you think there's a chance
00:26:22
then you'll probably try and do your
00:26:24
homework you're trying you know
00:26:25
obviously statistically you'll try and
00:26:27
get it right you'll try and look at the
00:26:29
strengths and weaknesses you'll you'll
00:26:31
take any consideration maybe the price
00:26:33
is going to cost where you think it's
00:26:35
you know where it fits in for you what
00:26:37
you can do but the ones you don't know
00:26:40
are what you you're looking for your
00:26:41
Scouts to bring to you and and quite a
00:26:43
lot in modern footballs the agents are
00:26:45
bringing them you know because the
00:26:46
agents are putting such a huge part no
00:26:49
whether you see it as a positive or A
00:26:50
negative they're playing such a huge
00:26:52
part behind the scenes in football at
00:26:54
the moment
00:26:55
and these people will bring it obviously
00:26:57
if you're trying to sell something
00:26:58
you're always going to talk it up but in
00:27:01
the end you know we would or I would
00:27:02
always try and get my Scouts to go
00:27:04
through it they would probably say yes
00:27:05
this is what's coming and looking at
00:27:07
come in we should we'll go and set more
00:27:09
we'll sit for a few hours watching
00:27:11
if we wanted to take it even further
00:27:13
then we would go into much further
00:27:15
detail would eventually probably start
00:27:16
trying to find out
00:27:18
people who know the boy or just played
00:27:21
with a boy and try and get a bit of his
00:27:22
character background
00:27:24
would try and find out more about
00:27:27
you know is he that is he the right type
00:27:29
you know is he is he a good boy is he is
00:27:31
he a good trainer is he going to be
00:27:33
disruptive in the training I think all
00:27:35
those things are really really part of
00:27:37
it I don't think any I don't think any
00:27:39
football manager
00:27:41
wants people who are not going to fit in
00:27:43
in what was it and I guess again uh
00:27:46
reverse back to business probably you're
00:27:48
the same and you don't want people here
00:27:50
not going to fit in with what you've got
00:27:52
you want somebody who's going to come in
00:27:53
and blend in and be part of it what was
00:27:55
your best ever signing
00:27:57
ah but I always say
00:27:59
Nigel Martin is saying Nigel Martin the
00:28:02
goalkeeper who was at Leeds United and
00:28:03
he was on a free from Leeds United and
00:28:06
we took him to Everton at the time
00:28:08
and it's only because he was a three but
00:28:10
not only that he was a great goalkeeper
00:28:12
obviously he had been an England
00:28:14
goalkeeper he was probably near at the
00:28:16
end of the time but he gave me about
00:28:18
four or five years of stability
00:28:20
but see when people talk about signing
00:28:22
your best signing over the over the time
00:28:25
I've now been I've made that many
00:28:26
signings I've got you know it would be
00:28:29
it's really pretty shame for me even in
00:28:31
M1 because I've got so many that I could
00:28:34
I could see you don't have to I would
00:28:36
not ask you to name your worst signing
00:28:38
but where have you frequently got it
00:28:40
wrong when signing players
00:28:44
you know what I think you do is I think
00:28:46
it's the ones I've missed the ones who
00:28:48
you've said no I don't think is quite
00:28:50
good enough I think I'm gonna don't
00:28:51
think I wanna and I've had hundreds of
00:28:54
them who's the one you missed the most
00:28:55
that well just recently because it's
00:28:57
because because we've been talking about
00:28:59
it you know we've been
00:29:01
Alvarez who's just played for Argentina
00:29:03
in the World Cup you know was I I
00:29:05
brought in a new Scout who says look you
00:29:08
should go for Alvarez at River play
00:29:10
and I watched and I watched these are
00:29:12
very good really good technician I
00:29:13
thought he he done so many good things
00:29:16
as a center for a bit I thought maybe
00:29:17
not quite the one we want maybe didn't
00:29:19
quite we had Mickey Antonio uh who had
00:29:22
been doing very well I don't know if
00:29:24
he's you know
00:29:25
and you see sometimes the players change
00:29:28
in six months but I have to say there's
00:29:30
other other players like that who you
00:29:33
don't take and don't go on to be a real
00:29:34
success but that one at the moment is
00:29:36
just one because it was probably only a
00:29:39
year ago where I decided nah I don't
00:29:41
think it's probably the one we're gonna
00:29:42
take it's the same in business no matter
00:29:44
how many people you hire yeah it's
00:29:46
always still guessing yeah and I was
00:29:48
speaking to my friend Gary vaynerchuk
00:29:50
about this who's hired about 5 000
00:29:51
people and he said to me he says you
00:29:53
know I've been in this game for 30 years
00:29:54
and I'm still just guessing because
00:29:56
we can come up with all the principles
00:29:58
and systems we want but how someone
00:30:00
people change but also how they present
00:30:02
in an interview yeah can be drastically
00:30:04
different to how they present in six
00:30:05
months time yeah when they're
00:30:06
comfortable you know what which really
00:30:08
interesting I'm asking you I I hear now
00:30:11
and I hear because there's so many jobs
00:30:13
change in our our industry
00:30:16
he says how do you pick a good football
00:30:18
coach now how would you pick a football
00:30:21
manager whatever you want but how would
00:30:22
you pick a good football manager no what
00:30:25
would give him the no the owners or the
00:30:27
people who are doing it how are they
00:30:28
picking it because again what I said it
00:30:30
says
00:30:31
yes of course we can think of some real
00:30:33
special people who would be would be in
00:30:36
that group but if you're you're a lesser
00:30:38
Club trying to pick a new Talent when
00:30:40
you know why would you get it is he got
00:30:43
the driver has he got the energy has he
00:30:45
got the love for the game to to to stay
00:30:48
with it has he got an idea that he wants
00:30:50
to go further and he's going to put the
00:30:52
work in
00:30:53
it's really hard and sometimes you can't
00:30:55
find them and I get the feeling it's the
00:30:56
same in Industry now as well yeah
00:30:59
um yeah I I think the more I've hired
00:31:02
The more I've realized that it's just
00:31:03
guessing which I think would people be
00:31:04
surprised at because people think that
00:31:06
you'll get progressively better or your
00:31:08
your confidence will will grow my
00:31:10
confidence has actually Fallen with
00:31:12
experience yes so so what that means for
00:31:14
me is that when I hire someone and I
00:31:17
know it's not right just very quickly
00:31:19
have to make a decision because the
00:31:20
worst thing is indecision right waking
00:31:22
wasting too long that's it we have the
00:31:25
same situation we've talked about as we
00:31:28
are buying players and we're and we're
00:31:30
spending a lot of money like you are and
00:31:32
then you're saying is and you're saying
00:31:34
no but you can't do this but we don't
00:31:35
think you can do that and and at times
00:31:37
maybe the older you get you would think
00:31:39
this it becomes easier it actually
00:31:41
becomes harder the more you're in it
00:31:43
because you've probably seen the good
00:31:44
ones the bad ones yeah this is before
00:31:46
this past they try and get a good one
00:31:48
but not so good anymore we're going to
00:31:50
follow another parcel I've got to say no
00:31:53
hiring people and bringing them in is
00:31:55
not an easy thing to do it's slightly
00:31:57
different I guess in business because as
00:31:58
the CEO
00:32:00
I in business usually get to make the
00:32:03
decision about who you're hiring I mean
00:32:04
sometimes of course managers at low
00:32:05
levels make make that decision but in
00:32:07
football there's often a conversation
00:32:09
that the board or the owner has stepped
00:32:11
in and has told you who to sign and who
00:32:14
to buy
00:32:15
well I think that's one of the things
00:32:17
really in football where you would say
00:32:20
laughs
00:32:22
if if an owner was going to do that you
00:32:24
say no come on it's not not right it is
00:32:26
it's part and parcel of football now
00:32:27
it's Rife and football where a lot of
00:32:30
owners are making the signings instead
00:32:31
of the manager has the owner ever asked
00:32:33
you to sign a player uh yes yeah they
00:32:36
have yeah what did you say to them I've
00:32:38
tried to say I've said no to you know
00:32:41
and I've said no it's not the way I do
00:32:42
what no if the players are good I'd be
00:32:45
I'd be saying great bring me them in but
00:32:47
then what we would do is if we get a
00:32:48
name of a player then we would try and
00:32:50
do our homework and try and do other
00:32:52
stuff and by the way we might be wrong
00:32:54
we're accepting that but if we follow
00:32:56
the correct process or what we believe
00:32:58
is the correct process
00:33:01
and it still comes out no we have to go
00:33:03
with what we're saying now if the
00:33:05
process stays here by the way where he
00:33:06
and he's a good player he's going lots
00:33:07
of goals he's you know he's young you
00:33:09
know resellable if it doesn't work if
00:33:12
all those other points come up then
00:33:14
we're saying oh wait a minute maybe we
00:33:15
have to think about it but I think
00:33:17
really trusting your process and hoping
00:33:20
that
00:33:21
the longevity I've had will probably
00:33:24
hope that you've made more right
00:33:26
decisions than wrong decisions by the
00:33:28
time
00:33:29
by the time you get around to making the
00:33:30
final decision I guess one of the things
00:33:32
you can control which doesn't have to be
00:33:33
a guessing exercise is the culture that
00:33:36
they join so the culture that they join
00:33:38
is good then there's a higher chance of
00:33:39
them being successful as a player as a
00:33:41
new signing I agree how do how do you do
00:33:44
that at the clubs you're managing now
00:33:46
West Ham have you done that in the past
00:33:48
to make sure the culture is right and
00:33:50
what is that culture yeah
00:33:51
well I think I think for me the biggest
00:33:53
one was
00:33:55
when I when I was at West Ham the first
00:33:57
time we came and we thought we'd done a
00:33:59
good job and we kept the team up we were
00:34:01
asked to come in we kept the team up and
00:34:03
we didn't get the job and then another
00:34:05
manager came in and we were we were out
00:34:07
of work for a year so then to be fair to
00:34:09
the owner David Sullivan he followed me
00:34:10
about companies says would you come in
00:34:11
and says yeah love to come back no
00:34:13
problem
00:34:15
I felt I had to do
00:34:17
a bit more at West Ham or had to try and
00:34:19
I I keep using and I say it opening a I
00:34:23
want to build a new West Ham so what is
00:34:25
a new West Ham mean well a lot of people
00:34:28
a lot of supporters might not like the
00:34:29
sort of that but West Ham I've moved to
00:34:33
a new stadium
00:34:34
it's not been it's not been appreciated
00:34:36
by everybody
00:34:39
but that's what we're going to be it
00:34:40
looks like for the next hundred years
00:34:41
that's when it looks like the club's
00:34:43
going to be there so we need to make the
00:34:44
best we possibly can of it
00:34:46
you know I want to change the cut I want
00:34:48
you I want that to be a lot it's a young
00:34:50
kid's Company West Ham East End of
00:34:51
London's a huge area former West Ham
00:34:54
supporters
00:34:57
a lot of poverty in the area West Ham
00:35:00
offer great ticket prices great
00:35:02
opportunities they do brilliant work in
00:35:04
the community West Ham in in EastEnders
00:35:06
one thing they really do
00:35:08
and I want to encourage all the young
00:35:10
kids now what do you need you need
00:35:13
exciting players so that these young
00:35:14
kids want want to buy a jersey so that
00:35:16
they're not following the top two or
00:35:18
three teams in the country and you want
00:35:20
them to come so
00:35:21
I I've tried to change
00:35:25
try to change the team
00:35:27
but you know deep down I'd really like
00:35:28
to say I'm trying to make West Ham
00:35:31
better
00:35:32
and it used to always do other people
00:35:34
when I was a manager I haven't managed
00:35:36
man united in other clubs before would
00:35:38
say oh you get a flaky West Ham you know
00:35:40
they're not not that reliable and you
00:35:42
don't know what West Ham team is going
00:35:43
to turn up
00:35:45
well I want to change that culture
00:35:48
there's so much room for improvement at
00:35:49
West Ham you know I think it's got great
00:35:53
potential to improve
00:35:55
and I I hope that you get I get the
00:35:58
opportunity to keep it going with a
00:35:59
couple of really really good years uh
00:36:03
success for West Ham there's been
00:36:04
success and it's how we continue that
00:36:07
success now how we build on it and I
00:36:10
think if you're if you're in business
00:36:12
I think you'll accept it you know you
00:36:14
quite often you have a couple of years
00:36:16
or a good year and then you might not
00:36:17
have it quite so good because we'll have
00:36:19
weird a little bit like that at the
00:36:20
moment so I'm hoping that
00:36:22
culturally I think we have changed
00:36:25
I've changed a load of things at West
00:36:27
Ham
00:36:28
we're not we're not milky we're not
00:36:30
flaky
00:36:32
uh
00:36:34
I think there's a different atmosphere
00:36:36
in eastenda London regarding how people
00:36:38
see West Ham
00:36:40
I
00:36:42
I like the way we've done it but we've
00:36:44
also got some exciting really exciting
00:36:46
young players who those young supporters
00:36:48
I talked about could fall
00:36:50
what are those next steps then if you
00:36:52
reflect back on what you did at Everton
00:36:53
you took them from being that kind of
00:36:55
you know happy to survive Club to a new
00:36:57
last I think your last eight years you
00:36:59
finished in the top you lost seven years
00:37:02
you finished one of the two yeah you
00:37:03
last eight years you finished in the top
00:37:04
eight seven times yes or something along
00:37:07
along those lines
00:37:08
um they became a consistent
00:37:11
competitive team at the top top end of
00:37:13
the table
00:37:14
when you look at where West Ham is now
00:37:16
as we sit here in our 16th in the table
00:37:18
what is what are those but after two
00:37:20
amazing years in the two previous years
00:37:22
where West Ham were absolutely fireworks
00:37:24
to be fair dangerous very very dangerous
00:37:27
team to to play against I'm not
00:37:28
Manchester United fan so I remember like
00:37:31
the last two years have been really
00:37:32
really um incredible for West Ham what
00:37:34
are those steps forward now to get West
00:37:35
Ham to being that team that that is
00:37:37
competing at the very top of the table
00:37:39
and I find it so interesting that in
00:37:41
fact when you when you answer this
00:37:42
question you don't just think oh we need
00:37:43
to buy more players it's kind of more of
00:37:45
a holistic wider broader job that needs
00:37:47
to be done yeah I I actually think that
00:37:50
we we bought our players and I think
00:37:51
that you know I've gone out there and
00:37:53
said that's what I'm doing
00:37:54
but I think I sometimes I think in in
00:37:58
football not that you need to break it
00:38:00
but we had a really good team for the
00:38:02
last two years
00:38:03
but with a few Mark Noble was coming to
00:38:05
them one or two other players were
00:38:06
coming today and we had to change and we
00:38:07
were actually shortly numbers were
00:38:09
really sure the players have done and I
00:38:11
felt as if I nearly had to break up a
00:38:14
little bit because I had seen Signs Now
00:38:17
my experience my longevity was telling
00:38:20
me if I don't do this now then I'm gonna
00:38:23
feel I'm going to be caught out now we
00:38:25
probably didn't do quite as well from
00:38:26
January on last year that was my feeling
00:38:28
we had some brilliant nights we got this
00:38:31
semi-final European football no we had
00:38:34
been challenging all years I mean we in
00:38:36
the last game of the season we we
00:38:37
finished seventh but we were 10 minutes
00:38:40
away from finishing six above Manchester
00:38:42
United you know uh
00:38:45
so the the margins were incredibly small
00:38:48
and all this but I felt that
00:38:51
now we might now with the age I'm the
00:38:53
only saying is
00:38:54
I don't really give a [Â __Â ] now I've got
00:38:56
to say I'm not going to get many more
00:38:57
goes at this so if I don't make a go to
00:38:59
I don't really do what I think is right
00:39:02
and what I want to do then I'll regret
00:39:04
it so this part of me said yeah we had
00:39:06
to bring in new players and we've gone
00:39:08
out and we've
00:39:09
put my head on the Block and said here
00:39:11
we go brought these new players in
00:39:13
no what I really need is hope that I can
00:39:15
get a little bit time to set on getting
00:39:16
them settled in I think we brought in
00:39:17
good players I think we have got a
00:39:20
better Squad
00:39:21
maybe not a better team at this exact
00:39:23
time than what we had last year but
00:39:26
we've definitely got better players
00:39:27
which are I believe will show that and
00:39:29
in the coming months do you worry about
00:39:32
that
00:39:32
um losing losing your job is that
00:39:34
something that like
00:39:35
sits and you might I I wouldn't in my
00:39:38
business I mean other than when I was at
00:39:40
Social and I had a board of directors
00:39:41
we're a public company so technically
00:39:43
they could fire me
00:39:45
um it's not something that I think about
00:39:46
like if I'm if I perform badly as an
00:39:49
executive the company goes down
00:39:54
well what it says I think as a young
00:39:57
manager I worried much more yeah I think
00:39:59
now in the in the position I'm in now
00:40:01
and when I'm going I'll worry far far
00:40:04
less because
00:40:06
it's in my blood I love the game I want
00:40:09
to be here I'm enjoying what I'm doing
00:40:10
but it wouldn't be the end of the ass if
00:40:12
something went wrong for me now where
00:40:14
I'm at but my pride my determination is
00:40:18
that I want to be successful and I want
00:40:20
a I want to know be do a really good job
00:40:23
for West Ham
00:40:25
so but I think when you're younger if
00:40:27
you look now at Young managers young
00:40:28
managers find it very difficult if you
00:40:30
don't do well in your first job maybe
00:40:31
like business you know in business maybe
00:40:33
you ever go and something fails nothing
00:40:35
quite what you're nearly tentative do
00:40:38
you think I could go again maybe nobody
00:40:40
will help invest this may whatever it
00:40:42
may be so it's so important you do get
00:40:45
it right when you do go and book them
00:40:47
back to if I just have to because I want
00:40:49
to visit
00:40:50
I think you need people who are really
00:40:51
supportive at the start I had a great
00:40:54
owner at Preston North End a couple of
00:40:55
great owners who really supported me uh
00:40:59
when I went to West Ham I had great men
00:41:02
who who helped me at that time as well I
00:41:04
think sometimes you need to be a bit
00:41:06
lucky on your journey that you know if
00:41:08
you turn up a club where an owner's
00:41:10
making the signings or you're not good
00:41:12
he's only going to give you half a dozen
00:41:13
games to to show what you can do you're
00:41:16
probably going to find it it's going to
00:41:18
be very difficult to succeed so
00:41:20
maybe a bit lucky at the start but I
00:41:22
worried much more when I was younger
00:41:24
than I would do now that success that
00:41:27
you want the time to achieve at West Ham
00:41:28
what what is that success what is the
00:41:32
goal for West Ham uh if we sat here in
00:41:34
you know let's say 10 years five years
00:41:37
time that's too long in football these
00:41:39
days five years time what's the what's
00:41:41
the goal
00:41:42
I think we've been successful yeah I
00:41:45
think West Ham have been successful in
00:41:46
the last two years
00:41:47
and what you know
00:41:50
really the one show the the great
00:41:52
winners in the serial winners are the
00:41:53
ones who wants to get a better success
00:41:55
all they want is more of it uh
00:41:58
I'd love to be sitting here where and
00:42:00
bringing my trophies in here in front
00:42:02
here and putting them up and saying here
00:42:03
look at these trophies I've not got that
00:42:05
what have I got I've got periods of
00:42:07
success and all my teams have done well
00:42:08
we've got to Europe you know got to a
00:42:10
cup final here and there we've got to
00:42:11
semi-finals
00:42:13
so not everybody in the industry can
00:42:15
have success you know not everybody can
00:42:18
know be what about with our medals and
00:42:21
at the moment have not but I still
00:42:22
believe there's still a big chance that
00:42:24
I can do that is that your kpi of
00:42:26
success is that what you
00:42:28
it's probably not now it's not now
00:42:31
because I actually think
00:42:35
staying in the job wouldn't be a bit
00:42:37
longevity is a really important thing in
00:42:38
anyone if you can stay in it and you can
00:42:40
it's no it's a big thing it's showing
00:42:42
that you've done a good enough job
00:42:45
but you know Avida I've been fortunate
00:42:47
enough with a few manager of the Year
00:42:48
Awards over over the years you know last
00:42:50
few years have been nominated for it but
00:42:53
I've said many times I'd swap it for one
00:42:55
of Jose mourinho's lemon Meadows if I
00:42:57
got the chance you know or one of these
00:42:58
trophies all day long so
00:43:02
that's still got to be what I'm driving
00:43:04
to do now well not gone forever because
00:43:07
I'm getting older and I don't want to be
00:43:09
as old as Sir Alex or Roy hodgin when
00:43:12
they finish those sort of people but but
00:43:15
I still get the energy I still get the
00:43:16
drive I feel as if I've got a good team
00:43:18
and I feel as if I'm still capable of of
00:43:21
keeping up with those younger ones quick
00:43:23
one we are lucky enough to have Intel
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sponsoring this podcast and in previous
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I can't tell you over the last I'd say
00:44:17
over the last really it's been about two
00:44:18
and a half years it was really um post
00:44:20
pandemic how much my health has become
00:44:22
such a huge priority in my life and I
00:44:25
have this laser laser focused on what
00:44:27
I'm putting into my body it's funny
00:44:28
because as you get older you can start
00:44:29
to feel the things you're putting into
00:44:31
your body more and more and more
00:44:33
um and if I if I put something into my
00:44:34
body especially things like gluten if I
00:44:36
put those things in my body I feel them
00:44:37
tremendously the next day my energy
00:44:39
levels my sleep and everything in
00:44:41
between huel has been probably the most
00:44:43
important partner in my health Journey
00:44:46
because
00:44:46
I've been in the boardrooms I've been to
00:44:48
their offices
00:44:50
tens and tens and tens and tens of times
00:44:52
I've seen how they make their decisions
00:44:53
on nutrition and I trust it most of my
00:44:57
team that are in this room with me
00:44:58
consume it and get the benefits of it
00:44:59
too so if you haven't already tried your
00:45:02
do so
00:45:04
Alex sure Alex there's been a lot said
00:45:07
about Sir Alex I talk about him a lot
00:45:08
because I've interviewed so many of his
00:45:09
former players
00:45:11
um there was a lot of rumors that he
00:45:13
went to your house and asked you to
00:45:15
become the manager of Manchester United
00:45:16
no he took me to his house oh he took
00:45:19
you to his house yeah
00:45:21
and actually a
00:45:22
I'll tell you story Steve is I it wasn't
00:45:25
long after I turned 50 my wife had
00:45:28
bought me a watch and actually we had
00:45:30
gone through to Manchester too
00:45:32
to the Jaws I needed to get a link taken
00:45:35
out
00:45:36
and uh it was actually an altering on by
00:45:39
all places I was in altering them
00:45:41
and uh
00:45:43
the phone rang and it was a
00:45:45
it was Sir Alex and I saw the way I says
00:45:48
oh bloody hell it's Alex on the phone
00:45:52
and I thought oh he's gonna he's gonna
00:45:54
need one one of my players or he's going
00:45:55
to want me to take one of these players
00:45:56
which no he's he's coming on he says
00:45:58
something
00:46:00
and he and he said hey where are you
00:46:03
I I see something I'm in Manchester he
00:46:06
says uh well right come out to the house
00:46:07
when you're ready will you
00:46:10
said and that's a person Alex accent
00:46:12
probably so good
00:46:15
and uh
00:46:18
I see his sister wife
00:46:20
I can't do it I'm in my jeans I couldn't
00:46:23
go Easter Alex with a pair of jeans on
00:46:25
it's no way
00:46:26
so I'm saying oh what am I going to do
00:46:28
don't you Marks and Spencers and buy a
00:46:30
pair of trousers
00:46:32
you know so she said oh can we go just
00:46:35
go and get on me and do it so anyway
00:46:37
drop my wife off at the shopping center
00:46:39
and I drove out to Sir Alex's house
00:46:42
and and he went I went in
00:46:45
and he says then you come
00:46:47
and uh
00:46:50
very nice house and he's got a lovely
00:46:53
sort of room Sports room up the stairs
00:46:55
and he says what a cup of tea says I
00:46:56
took up a cup of tea
00:46:58
and he and he said
00:47:00
I'm retiring
00:47:03
and you're the next manager of
00:47:04
Manchester United
00:47:07
no interview
00:47:09
no no telling me not saying would you
00:47:12
like to be
00:47:14
no I'm retiring and I nearly slipped
00:47:17
down it was a it was a lesson I nearly
00:47:19
slipped down because obviously that was
00:47:21
nobody knew that sir Alex was retiring
00:47:23
nobody knew no nobody even suggested I
00:47:26
thought about it
00:47:28
and I nearly slipped down when I heard
00:47:29
them say that and then he says and
00:47:30
you're the next manager of Manchester
00:47:32
United
00:47:34
and I just sort of went yeah well no
00:47:36
okay I wasn't gonna I wasn't going to
00:47:38
turn around I didn't think I would ever
00:47:39
say nowhere I could I don't even know I
00:47:41
was in a position to say no and uh and
00:47:44
that was as simple as that we got
00:47:47
underway he said
00:47:48
and there was only maybe
00:47:51
and to be fair it was only four weeks to
00:47:52
go to the end of the season maybe five
00:47:54
weeks to go to the end of the season I
00:47:56
was coming out of contract to Everton
00:47:58
and I was really wanting to be
00:48:00
respectful to them and actually my next
00:48:03
game was against Liverpool
00:48:05
uh on this Sunday I think I met Sir Alex
00:48:08
in the midweek on the Wednesday or
00:48:09
something on the Sunday
00:48:11
and I knew that if we had got a draw
00:48:12
with Liverpool we would probably finish
00:48:14
above them in the league and it was at
00:48:16
anfield and we did we get a drop and we
00:48:18
we did finish up off them so it didn't
00:48:19
have any effect on on what I was doing
00:48:22
at Evan
00:48:23
but the big the big thing was to say and
00:48:25
then the next day said uh I want you to
00:48:27
come back to my house tomorrow uh
00:48:30
uh Edward was going to come and see he's
00:48:32
going to be the new chief executive who
00:48:34
he says David gills uh leaving as well
00:48:38
and that was it and I met Edward won the
00:48:40
next day and then the next day back to
00:48:42
his house again we met the glazers
00:48:45
and so it was three days three days
00:48:48
where I dropped back to his house the
00:48:51
the biggest problem I had was
00:48:53
he said
00:48:55
and you can't tell MD about me retiring
00:48:59
he says nobody knows that's no promises
00:49:02
tell your wife but nobody else I
00:49:03
couldn't tell my kids I couldn't tell my
00:49:05
dad
00:49:06
I couldn't tell my dad that I was going
00:49:08
to get the job but I was getting the job
00:49:10
so that that for me was how it happened
00:49:13
and when I wrote back now
00:49:16
to get that offer from probably arguably
00:49:19
uh the greatest the greatest manager
00:49:22
maybe there ever was was a great
00:49:23
compliment
00:49:24
uh
00:49:26
but maybe if I'd really looked in more
00:49:28
detail and more depths in in I was
00:49:32
desperate to be successful as a manager
00:49:34
and I had had 11 years at Everton where
00:49:36
we said weeds
00:49:38
would say we'd hit the glass ceiling but
00:49:39
we would find it really difficult to
00:49:41
break into the top four the competition
00:49:43
and the money was required
00:49:46
but my biggest regret was uh I was so
00:49:48
close to Bill Ken right the owner at
00:49:50
Everton
00:49:51
and I and I couldn't tell and it felt
00:49:53
and it was really bad that I couldn't
00:49:55
tell him because I was so close to Bill
00:49:58
but I couldn't break my word without Sir
00:50:00
Alex said he didn't want me to tell it
00:50:01
so I couldn't tell MD about my wife so
00:50:04
jump back in the car drove back to the
00:50:07
shop mall shopping center
00:50:11
got the wife put her in the car and I
00:50:13
said something new manager Man United
00:50:15
and she was like well you got piss off
00:50:16
your top rubbish you know so uh that was
00:50:19
it and that was how it went
00:50:22
you were coming to the end of your
00:50:24
contract with Everton at the time what
00:50:26
was your plan you hadn't signed a
00:50:28
contract so you must have been I hadn't
00:50:30
been I had I have to say as I had been
00:50:33
I think I would my plan was probably to
00:50:35
stay at Evan we just hadn't got it done
00:50:37
in for different reasons I was wanting
00:50:39
to see how it was going
00:50:41
but I have to say I'd I'd met a couple
00:50:43
other clubs I'd met a couple of really
00:50:45
big clubs who'd approached me and phoned
00:50:47
me and spoke to me you know what was I
00:50:48
doing would I be interested
00:50:51
the truth is I don't think I'd have I'd
00:50:53
have left for any of them
00:50:55
because everyone had been so good to me
00:50:57
but I was also wary about overstaying
00:51:00
your welcome at Evan you know sometimes
00:51:02
just in management supporters won't
00:51:04
change they want to want to try
00:51:06
something different and and I get it I'm
00:51:07
a huge football supporter you know if I
00:51:11
wasn't managing I'd be watching football
00:51:12
and I'd be you know probably talking
00:51:14
about it like everybody else does
00:51:17
but uh I
00:51:19
you know it came up I've got a chance to
00:51:22
manage probably the biggest cup in the
00:51:23
world I'm falling
00:51:26
a club who always give their managers
00:51:30
time they gave Sir Alex time and also
00:51:34
that their values were no they played
00:51:36
young players Man United
00:51:38
I always thought man united never went
00:51:40
out and tried to buy the best on the
00:51:42
market and they never went to the went
00:51:44
they never went to this sort of designer
00:51:45
shop to buy the best thing in the
00:51:47
designer shop they bought correctly they
00:51:49
bought young players they bought you
00:51:51
know you look at the Players they had
00:51:53
which they come through from Becks and
00:51:55
the Neville's and all the other ones who
00:51:57
came through
00:51:58
they always did something a bit a bit of
00:52:00
style about them they never went out to
00:52:02
get the best overseas manager in the
00:52:04
world they picked which fitted their
00:52:05
model
00:52:06
so I actually felt when Ceramics offered
00:52:09
me the job in Manchester United who had
00:52:10
given me the job I felt they thought I
00:52:12
must have been the best choice for the
00:52:14
job at that time and they saw that and
00:52:16
also maybe
00:52:18
not similar but similar in a way that
00:52:21
maybe there was a similar background a
00:52:22
similar upbringing a similar route maybe
00:52:25
to to get to the point so I trusted
00:52:28
Manchester United I really did adjusted
00:52:30
them because of what they stood for as a
00:52:32
football club
00:52:33
you know many times um when you're
00:52:36
successful as you were at Everton you're
00:52:38
given big opportunities it's the same in
00:52:39
business people come to me and give me
00:52:41
these huge opportunities and sometimes
00:52:43
like the bright bright lights of the
00:52:44
opportunity have often caused me to make
00:52:47
a wrong decision or not to take you know
00:52:50
take the right amount of due diligence
00:52:51
as you described they're like not really
00:52:53
looking into the details because it's
00:52:54
such a big thing that you almost can't
00:52:55
say no to it you said there that you
00:52:57
wish you'd looked a little bit closer
00:52:58
with the details what do you mean by
00:53:00
that
00:53:01
well I'll tell you who told me was uh
00:53:04
Howard Wilkinson said to me down the
00:53:07
line I wish you'd told me before he says
00:53:09
all the managers over the dynasty so
00:53:12
when you look at it uh I think it was
00:53:14
Brian cough was one of them I think the
00:53:16
other one was Sir Bobby Robson all the
00:53:18
managers who had the real uh
00:53:21
Dynasty and transdently United managers
00:53:24
as well uh don ravey maybe as well I
00:53:26
think it was
00:53:28
MD who followed them never worked
00:53:32
no I never even thought for a minute
00:53:34
because
00:53:35
I I thought to myself no I'll come in
00:53:37
and
00:53:38
and I actually was thinking I'm not
00:53:40
changing I'm going to try not to change
00:53:42
much of it so I said of course I have to
00:53:44
change it it's not Ceramics it's me and
00:53:46
I have to do it my way and I have to try
00:53:47
and do a little bit but ultimately uh I
00:53:50
was going to keep it going but then I'm
00:53:52
gonna when I look back at the things
00:53:53
what I heard I thought my goodness have
00:53:55
I looked a bit closer and maybe even now
00:53:58
I'm a bit older now than I was when I
00:54:00
get the job maybe maybe
00:54:03
even I needed even more experience and
00:54:06
maybe even I had it at that point maybe
00:54:07
we'd be more ready at this period in my
00:54:10
career than I was even saying no don't
00:54:12
know what it was eight or nine years ago
00:54:13
whenever it was
00:54:15
so if they called you now
00:54:18
well you know they've got a really good
00:54:20
manager I think and I think I think the
00:54:22
the thing about Manchester United
00:54:23
Manchester United have of chosen
00:54:25
incredibly good managers yeah rubber
00:54:28
with some of the best managers some of
00:54:30
the best managers you could ever imagine
00:54:31
I've been I've been at Manchester United
00:54:33
so you know sometimes you've got to say
00:54:36
you know if you're if you're quite
00:54:38
bright I'm sure you are with a business
00:54:40
you're working it's not always the
00:54:42
boss's fault it just doesn't this
00:54:43
doesn't go right so like I I took over
00:54:47
at a difficult time you know it was
00:54:49
quite a few senior players probably
00:54:51
coming to near the end of their time but
00:54:53
I also have to say I was really proud I
00:54:55
took over the Champions England when
00:54:57
when that was a time and that was I'm
00:54:58
saying what a chance I've got you know
00:55:00
maybe the opportunity to win trophies
00:55:02
the opportunity to be successful and it
00:55:05
was the thing I was probably missing
00:55:07
from a time at event that I wasn't quite
00:55:09
getting close enough to to winning
00:55:10
trophies would you would you Eric ten
00:55:13
hog aside I think he's great I think we
00:55:14
both agree there but would you ever be
00:55:16
open to coming back to Manchester United
00:55:18
in the future if they they'd asked uh
00:55:20
well I don't think it would ever be it
00:55:21
would ever been a role as a manager
00:55:23
that's for sure so that my time's gone
00:55:24
but
00:55:25
you know if ever I always love to be
00:55:28
involved in football and hopefully
00:55:30
somewhere along the line someone will
00:55:31
want to use my experience when my time's
00:55:33
up with we've been a football manager
00:55:35
but uh Manchester United is a great
00:55:37
experience and a and I found it
00:55:39
difficult to sort of have have something
00:55:41
which could sort out
00:55:43
I don't know how it would I would sort
00:55:45
of put over what it meant and the only
00:55:47
way I could put it out is I think when
00:55:48
you manage man united it's like living
00:55:51
in the penthouse and looking out
00:55:53
you know and until you've had the
00:55:55
penthouse and you're looking out and
00:55:56
you're above everybody and you're
00:55:57
looking over you see the view much
00:55:59
better and uh for me they were the
00:56:01
penthouse one of the big things that did
00:56:03
change at Manchester United and I only
00:56:05
know this because I had a season ticket
00:56:06
the ladies and the the men that serve
00:56:08
you the food in like the hospitality
00:56:09
suite or whatever they always have a
00:56:11
great relationship with them and they
00:56:12
would tell me things about how the club
00:56:13
was maybe before I could add enough
00:56:15
money to buy a season ticket one of the
00:56:17
things they always said was the role
00:56:19
that David Gill had on the club as well
00:56:20
yeah people don't think understand that
00:56:22
enough but David Gill was the CEO of the
00:56:24
club yeah and I mean I've seen in my own
00:56:27
businesses when the CEO me was removed
00:56:30
how much it was a completely different
00:56:31
place and people don't understand that
00:56:33
because as fans we look at the manager
00:56:34
and think ah but if the managers in my
00:56:36
business
00:56:37
are very very very important but the
00:56:40
person above them has the most power and
00:56:42
the most control in the most way is the
00:56:44
CEO now that changed and the the
00:56:46
wonderful people at Manchester United
00:56:48
would tell me that well when David Gill
00:56:51
was here he knew all of our names and
00:56:53
that really struck me that like he knew
00:56:54
all of our names he knew all of our
00:56:56
birthdays we used to see him now we
00:56:58
don't see yeah Ed Woodward anymore we
00:57:00
don't see the chief Executives anymore
00:57:02
they don't know our names that's a real
00:57:04
sign of a cultural change definitely
00:57:06
just think of the values with that is
00:57:08
yeah the values of the CEO sending your
00:57:11
Buster card or I don't know and I mean
00:57:14
like if we I would be incredibly
00:57:16
complimentary if it said Alex said Alex
00:57:17
would fall out managers who had lost a
00:57:19
job or managers who had been successful
00:57:21
he phoned me up when we were doing very
00:57:23
well at West Ham six months ago whenever
00:57:25
it was
00:57:26
it they were always correcting and when
00:57:29
you think of values of what it means to
00:57:31
be at the top and what the things small
00:57:33
things which matter those things really
00:57:35
matter but for me
00:57:37
I was taking over the club I'd lost
00:57:40
David Gill who I knew very well from
00:57:42
different things and working with them
00:57:44
at UEFA and different things as well and
00:57:46
he was a huge huge Miss but that wasn't
00:57:49
to say that the new CEO wasn't he was to
00:57:52
be giving every chance and I wanted to
00:57:53
help him and he wanted to help me
00:57:55
ultimately it didn't work that way you
00:57:58
said you trusted the club to give to
00:58:00
give you long enough do you feel like
00:58:01
that trust was let down yeah I do a bit
00:58:05
because I feel that you know
00:58:07
I think that
00:58:10
if you're putting in a new manager
00:58:11
you're hoping that you're going to give
00:58:13
them and look at least a very stable job
00:58:15
in a very good environment to come and
00:58:17
do it and obviously
00:58:18
no I think when you when we look back
00:58:20
you would say hey there was a huge
00:58:22
change going to have to take place at
00:58:23
Manchester United after Sir Alex and
00:58:25
maybe ideally I think it was we were
00:58:27
going to try and make it seamless where
00:58:29
there wasn't going to be too big a
00:58:30
change but there's a lot of players
00:58:32
changing uh you know getting to an age
00:58:34
where there were no having to move on
00:58:36
there was actually a big Squad of of
00:58:38
players who had been incredibly loyal to
00:58:40
Sir Alex and suddenly they've got new
00:58:42
managers coming in the door
00:58:44
maybe not playing them as much so they
00:58:46
don't have quite the same
00:58:48
sort of coarseness to to him and still
00:58:51
building up relationship so I think
00:58:53
there was I think there was a lot of
00:58:54
that and it made it difficult but you
00:58:56
know the the thing I I look back at
00:58:58
business in in you're a very successful
00:59:01
businessman
00:59:02
always think
00:59:04
you have to give bad news well
00:59:08
because you're the boss
00:59:10
and you run
00:59:12
a really big business like Manchester
00:59:14
United did and I think if you've got any
00:59:16
class or any style
00:59:18
it's good when you get off off the job
00:59:21
and then you give them when you give
00:59:22
them all they and you talk about also
00:59:23
but I think when you're having to get
00:59:25
bad news out I think even bad news has
00:59:28
to be done
00:59:29
in a good way as well and I felt the way
00:59:32
that the I was told at the same time at
00:59:35
Manchester United wasn't done as well as
00:59:36
it should have been done uh but the way
00:59:39
that you were told you weren't going to
00:59:40
be manager yes you know it was there was
00:59:42
there was ways it could have been done
00:59:43
better and it could be made a lot easier
00:59:45
than what it was no
00:59:47
I've heard this from former players I've
00:59:48
heard former players tell me that they
00:59:50
were really disappointed by how the club
00:59:53
um specifically Edward wood gave them
00:59:55
their send-off I think it was I think it
00:59:57
was Rio that said to me that like just
00:59:59
came into the dressing room tapped me on
01:00:00
the shoulder and told me that this was
01:00:01
my last game or that they were selling
01:00:03
me or something and that doesn't pay
01:00:04
respect no two no it doesn't and I
01:00:08
actually think that Looking Back Now hey
01:00:10
you think to yourself hey it's life got
01:00:12
on me you know that's the way it is when
01:00:13
you're you know you're in you're in an
01:00:15
industry or you're in you do that but I
01:00:17
still think that uh I think if you're
01:00:20
the biggest one of the biggest sport
01:00:22
businesses in the world if not the
01:00:24
biggest
01:00:25
you would hope that you would do things
01:00:27
correctly like David Gill would sound
01:00:29
speak and say hello to them or light
01:00:30
they would send a birthday card so the
01:00:33
same should happen if you were telling
01:00:35
somebody that you were you were stopped
01:00:37
number you're sacking them or you're
01:00:38
getting rid of them you would hope they
01:00:39
would do it the best way they could how
01:00:41
did how did you find out
01:00:43
uh media oh really media phone in me
01:00:46
yeah lost a couple I get it lost the
01:00:49
game at Everton actually in the media
01:00:51
was saying I know you're losing your job
01:00:53
and
01:00:55
you know I I try to make contacts and
01:00:57
and say like why don't we meet up you
01:00:59
think you're going a bit
01:01:01
it didn't certain before I knew they
01:01:03
called me and the day after and by this
01:01:05
time the whole world had known about it
01:01:07
before I'd sort of get you know got to
01:01:09
know so
01:01:10
sometimes I think people want to want to
01:01:12
get it done right and I just didn't feel
01:01:13
it was right but anyway from my point of
01:01:15
view
01:01:17
uh
01:01:19
I generally don't have any real I don't
01:01:22
know if I gripe about it because the
01:01:23
industry I'm in uh
01:01:26
means that this can happen quite often
01:01:28
and you don't get things done the way
01:01:29
you want it you have to live with it and
01:01:31
and that's the way it is in the wake of
01:01:33
that how does um what does it look like
01:01:36
at home this is probably one of the most
01:01:38
interesting things that I personally
01:01:40
pondered throughout that period as a
01:01:41
Manchester United fan which is when you
01:01:43
go from the penthouse and then the the
01:01:46
landlord evicts you from the penthouse
01:01:48
after I don't know 10 10 11 months at
01:01:50
the club
01:01:51
the what the weight of Manchester United
01:01:53
you know it's the most talked about Club
01:01:56
it's the club that sells the headlines
01:01:57
it gets all the clicks so every it must
01:02:00
feel like everything is about you in the
01:02:02
world of football and it's like a very
01:02:04
public apparent failure
01:02:07
at home you've got wonderful wife Pamela
01:02:09
you've got two kids what's it like at
01:02:11
home
01:02:14
I think I think personally you're a
01:02:17
little bit
01:02:18
shame because you've not done done well
01:02:20
you know you're not done well for your
01:02:22
family so
01:02:23
I think personally I felt I'd let them
01:02:25
all down because you know I I'd really
01:02:28
what like I said if nobody
01:02:30
probably the hours and the work I'd put
01:02:32
in as a young I didn't believe I was
01:02:34
ever going to be a coach never mind the
01:02:36
coach of Manchester United but the hours
01:02:38
of work had put in it got me to a level
01:02:40
where I'd worked and I'd done an awful
01:02:41
lot of hard work behind the scenes over
01:02:43
the years
01:02:44
on day than to lose it so quickly so you
01:02:47
get a job and I said at that time I had
01:02:50
two or three really really big co-ops
01:02:52
who were were talking about me speaking
01:02:54
to me but when Sir Alex came and made me
01:02:56
the offer it was very hard to say no
01:02:58
and then for that to go very quickly so
01:03:00
it was a bit like getting to top up
01:03:01
Everest and then actually starting to
01:03:03
decline very quickly so from my point of
01:03:06
view it was hardkin home you know it was
01:03:08
difficult
01:03:09
uh but I've got to say
01:03:11
it's a bit like
01:03:13
my mom used to just say hey whatever
01:03:15
happens you just have to get up and go
01:03:17
on with it you know you're on with it
01:03:18
you'd be taking the chin and you got
01:03:19
away and you know sort of sticks and
01:03:21
stones don't worry too much about it but
01:03:24
you're right when your manager of
01:03:25
Manchester United you talked about in
01:03:27
every continent every country you'll
01:03:30
either be in the front of the back page
01:03:32
it's one of the papers so
01:03:34
but that's also the privilege of being a
01:03:36
manager of Manchester United as well
01:03:38
what's the what's the toll of that if
01:03:41
you were to warn me about the time
01:03:43
I think the tool for someone who
01:03:46
cares deeply about their profession and
01:03:48
wants to be successful and wants to do
01:03:51
well the toll for me personally time
01:03:53
felt felt big it really did
01:03:56
and it's probably it probably took me a
01:03:58
wee bit to get back on the road a little
01:04:01
bit without saying about a watch really
01:04:03
after I lost the job I said well I'm
01:04:04
going to have to go and try and
01:04:06
reinvent find out more new things no
01:04:09
keep keep current where can I go to find
01:04:11
out what's going on you know and I
01:04:14
obviously couldn't go back to Old
01:04:15
Trafford to watch a game where I
01:04:17
couldn't really go back to to a
01:04:19
gooderson and watching him so it made it
01:04:21
quite difficult but I found myself doing
01:04:24
quite a bit of work for UEFA I'd done
01:04:26
all the Champions League games which was
01:04:27
really good day and and I spoke in all
01:04:31
the pro license courses for the coaches
01:04:33
which kept me current and having to keep
01:04:35
up to date with things so those those
01:04:37
type of things kept me kept my education
01:04:40
and kept my knowledge and kept me going
01:04:42
a bit better
01:04:44
I still think that when you when you
01:04:46
you've been at one of the big clubs it's
01:04:47
always a Miss because you realize the
01:04:49
the level they're at you said that the
01:04:51
toll is big in a very practical real
01:04:53
sense what does that mean
01:04:55
is it sleepless nights is anxiety is it
01:04:58
yeah yeah I'm someone who sleeps really
01:05:00
well to be honest
01:05:02
but I do think that
01:05:05
it's very difficult when you when you
01:05:07
lose your job in in our business you
01:05:09
know you've talked about a lot so you
01:05:11
have to accept it and I'm
01:05:12
a part of it you will be as well or if
01:05:15
things go wrong or any of your
01:05:16
businesses feel you'll be you'll be
01:05:17
current no people will have criticism
01:05:20
but I think if you're going to go into
01:05:22
football management then you have to
01:05:24
find a way of saying how they deal with
01:05:26
it how am I going with it what's my
01:05:28
mechanism uh
01:05:31
I remember thinking when things weren't
01:05:33
going so well at Manchester United you
01:05:35
know I'd be driving any training
01:05:37
so I couldn't put on Talk sport I
01:05:40
couldn't put on
01:05:42
Radio 2 I couldn't put the words on in
01:05:44
them but yeah so I thought I'll put on
01:05:47
uh whatever music it was
01:05:49
and they come on and he was never
01:05:51
talking about me on that news as well so
01:05:52
oh my goodness is this ever going to end
01:05:54
is it is there a channel it isn't
01:05:56
talking about Manchester United in some
01:05:57
way but that was because it was getting
01:05:59
closer to probably when I wasn't doing
01:06:01
so well and there's a lot of talk about
01:06:03
it but uh
01:06:04
I think you just have to find a way of
01:06:06
shutting yourself off from it the best
01:06:07
you can
01:06:08
but the world we're in now for young
01:06:10
coaches of social media if you if that's
01:06:12
what your your world is or or how you
01:06:15
present yourself
01:06:16
it's much different now and uh
01:06:19
in days gone by
01:06:22
in the early days at Preston I look at
01:06:24
the I look at the newspaper and there'd
01:06:26
be a letter page
01:06:28
and there'd be four or five supporters
01:06:29
saying
01:06:30
why is moy's not playing him you know
01:06:32
and what's he doing and that used to be
01:06:35
where the criticism was mainly coming
01:06:38
from as you well know now now there's a
01:06:40
world of it outside
01:06:42
I am I got to play a um the London
01:06:45
Stadium
01:06:46
I'll create it's not called London
01:06:47
Stadium isn't it yeah it's called the
01:06:48
Lindsay and awesome chat to Karen Brady
01:06:51
once a while I'm seeing her soon
01:06:53
um and uh I met someone while I was at
01:06:57
the soccer Aid experience who happens to
01:06:59
be a family member of a player a big
01:07:04
Premier League player who has taken more
01:07:07
abuse than any other player maybe over
01:07:09
the last year and I met a family member
01:07:11
and I got a chat to them and um they
01:07:13
told me about the toll it's taken on the
01:07:16
whole family and you never think about
01:07:18
that but that was actually one of the
01:07:19
most important things I think I
01:07:21
experienced was hearing from someone's
01:07:23
younger sister that watching that older
01:07:26
brother be abused how horrific is she
01:07:29
was almost in tears because you know if
01:07:32
you and my dad and I watched that happen
01:07:34
to you yeah well I have to say you know
01:07:37
and it's like I don't think of them I'd
01:07:39
only
01:07:40
a week half that I watched the man
01:07:42
united job my dad did a heart attack
01:07:44
yeah and it was but it was a triple
01:07:46
bypass so I'm not saying it was because
01:07:48
of when I left Manchester United but
01:07:50
that was that was the case and it hey
01:07:53
who knows who knows if it would then we
01:07:56
we don't really think that was the
01:07:58
reason behind it we think it was just
01:07:59
coming on but so there is tolls which
01:08:03
are taking in families of course there
01:08:04
is but thankfully my dad's doing well
01:08:07
and it's still going well just now
01:08:08
something we didn't think about you know
01:08:10
and people will say to to you and people
01:08:11
like you and players they'll say well
01:08:13
your payloads of money so behave
01:08:14
yourself yeah just deal with it yeah
01:08:15
yeah but that's but then the kids aren't
01:08:18
as there is part of it and actually I I
01:08:21
do think many many times I think myself
01:08:22
is you know do people understand it
01:08:25
we'll get a family you know uh I I made
01:08:28
this the other day is I was saying to a
01:08:31
friend of sinners as a manager I think
01:08:33
as you get older you no in business
01:08:35
you're you're older you you think you
01:08:38
get more experience than you're you know
01:08:40
doesn't make it any better when I was a
01:08:42
young manager if I lost the game
01:08:45
I would come home
01:08:47
go straight to my bed peel the curtains
01:08:50
and not wake up to Sunday morning no
01:08:52
trying and I might not sleep I just
01:08:54
didn't really want any I didn't have any
01:08:56
I didn't really talk with my wife too
01:08:58
much I didn't really talk to my kids I
01:08:59
wasn't I wasn't unpleasant I just wanted
01:09:01
to be on my own done that the opposite
01:09:04
then was if you won on a Saturday
01:09:07
I'd come home and say come on let's get
01:09:09
ready let's let's nip up to the
01:09:10
restaurant and we'll get a bit of dinner
01:09:12
and a couple glasses of wine
01:09:13
and I used to always call it the the
01:09:15
Saturday night feeling I'm desperate to
01:09:18
get that Saturday night feeling I'm
01:09:20
desperate to have that feeling when you
01:09:21
have one in a Saturday knowing that
01:09:23
Mainland is Sunday you're picking up the
01:09:25
newspapers and the newspapers are saying
01:09:26
you've won and you're you're going well
01:09:29
but
01:09:30
and I thought maybe by the time I get to
01:09:32
the Aging over a thousand games and I'll
01:09:34
be seeing myself this is going to be
01:09:36
much much feel much easier
01:09:38
not at all just as bad I'm not saying
01:09:40
I'm going home every every night I was
01:09:41
now and pulling the Cottons and going
01:09:43
straight to bed but it's to just sort of
01:09:45
tell you how how the game is the game is
01:09:47
actually nearly completely how important
01:09:50
they're winning and backed it I said
01:09:52
when the upbringing was where
01:09:54
find a way of winning win means that I
01:09:56
have more good Saturday night feelings
01:09:58
than I do
01:09:59
go home and put on the continents and
01:10:01
going straight to bed
01:10:02
yeah I don't think about that you know
01:10:04
you know when you you said something a
01:10:06
second ago which is
01:10:08
you know you'd you'd reached what I
01:10:10
consider to be the very top of the game
01:10:11
managing Everton because I think about
01:10:13
how many tens of thousands of managers
01:10:16
there are coaches out there that are you
01:10:18
know on the Sun the Sunday League
01:10:19
pitches and all around the country that
01:10:21
are aspiring to manage in the Premier
01:10:23
League it's insane it's an insane insane
01:10:25
achievement
01:10:26
um you manage to evidence you went to
01:10:28
Manchester United didn't go well in that
01:10:30
period after even though you're at the
01:10:31
very top of the game
01:10:34
did you doubt yourself
01:10:36
in a post Manchester United uh
01:10:39
by my pause might make you think yes but
01:10:44
I didn't doubt that I was actually I
01:10:47
felt that I could do do the job I could
01:10:48
be good at it I felt as if I could I
01:10:52
my work on the grass was was good enough
01:10:54
to
01:10:55
for where I had been I had success years
01:10:57
before so I was always trying to say it
01:11:00
didn't go quite well this 10 months why
01:11:02
did it not go well was it how romani's
01:11:04
was it how I coached was it maybe I
01:11:07
didn't have the right players I had to
01:11:08
try and look to see why there is
01:11:10
but the other part of the 10 or 11 years
01:11:12
I'd seen some great players that had
01:11:14
been in FA Cup finals I'd I'd got to
01:11:16
qualifying as a European competition
01:11:18
wherever and we'd we'd qualify for the
01:11:20
Champions League one year so I was
01:11:22
thinking as well was I going to make say
01:11:23
that was all no good then the years
01:11:25
would have done it so I think once I put
01:11:27
it in perspective then I says no I'm not
01:11:29
I'm not doubting it but what I do think
01:11:31
is
01:11:33
I think I think most days you have to
01:11:36
get up and be ready to sort of challenge
01:11:38
yourself every day I don't I don't think
01:11:40
you can go to bed every morning and
01:11:41
think hey this is fine you know I'm I'm
01:11:44
doing okay here I think every day you're
01:11:46
sort of get up and seeing as you know
01:11:48
how am I going to try and be better how
01:11:50
can I make people better what am I how
01:11:51
can I make a difference today with what
01:11:53
I've got paranoid almost yeah near
01:11:55
enough near enough to an extent what
01:11:56
you're saying there's no I can't no you
01:11:58
folks say do you bring your work home
01:12:01
I I really think if you're in
01:12:04
if you're in the boss if you're the boss
01:12:06
you're always bringing your work home
01:12:08
because it's not you're not just taking
01:12:09
putting your head off and saying I'm
01:12:11
leaving that in the office and I'll pick
01:12:12
it up in the morning I think very really
01:12:14
you're doing that I think that's just
01:12:15
life of your if you're a CEO or a boss
01:12:19
I very much agree I very much agree with
01:12:21
that idea of taking the working and also
01:12:23
when things don't go wrong in hindsight
01:12:25
everybody's quick to diagnose why I
01:12:26
didn't go wrong
01:12:27
um has the subsequent 10 years where
01:12:30
everyone is failed at Manchester United
01:12:32
felt good
01:12:34
because everyone has failed Jose's
01:12:37
failed van Hal went there you went there
01:12:39
um I'm missing someone I think I'm
01:12:41
missing someone I mean Ollie was in it
01:12:43
Ollie was in he failed as well so that's
01:12:46
you know five or six great great
01:12:47
managers who
01:12:50
you couldn't make it work at Manchester
01:12:51
United for whatever reason so I think
01:12:53
time has almost been
01:12:55
good to you in terms of your yeah the
01:12:57
story of the time like I'm I I I get
01:13:01
huge respect for uh Josie Mourinho
01:13:04
huge result for Louis van Gaal you know
01:13:07
all he was new and is one of one of
01:13:09
Manchester United's own so was always
01:13:11
going to be given every opportunity to
01:13:12
try and make it work as well so I think
01:13:15
that I think there's been some great
01:13:17
managers coming into Manchester United
01:13:20
I think the biggest problem for
01:13:21
Manchester United is Manchester City
01:13:23
how do we I'm a Manchester United fan
01:13:25
season ticket holder how from your
01:13:27
experience do we get things back to how
01:13:31
they were
01:13:33
I think you'll need to
01:13:35
probably get rid of Pep somehow I think
01:13:39
that's my that's what we uh I think I
01:13:42
think papers I think there is some
01:13:44
managers I think but you must have an
01:13:46
unbelievable perspective better than me
01:13:48
at like what because you knew Fergie you
01:13:51
knew the club everything you've been
01:13:52
inside it what what do we need to do to
01:13:55
get back to
01:13:58
I think Manchester United different
01:13:59
principles and than most of the other
01:14:01
clubs
01:14:02
looked at their use a lot uh didn't
01:14:06
always sign maybe the as I said before
01:14:07
maybe the the top yeah Diamond always
01:14:11
sort of picked and picked out good
01:14:13
players who improve and now and again
01:14:14
went and bought a Canton over so often
01:14:16
or uh by nistel Roy or Van Percy at
01:14:20
different times you know uh so at
01:14:23
different times they they bought really
01:14:24
good players at Good Times this is
01:14:26
actually a really good point because
01:14:27
we've also bought some world-class
01:14:30
places and they've all failed yeah so
01:14:32
there is it there is something about
01:14:33
Manchester United had their own way but
01:14:35
because of the competition which came in
01:14:36
from Manchester City
01:14:38
uh Chelsea probably more in the in the
01:14:41
earlier years I think those two clubs I
01:14:43
think I think Liverpool have have an
01:14:45
incredible pier and get a really good
01:14:46
manager as well and top players
01:14:49
I think over the year Man United and
01:14:51
Liverpool have always had a level of
01:14:52
competition against each other people
01:14:54
say we've not spent money in terms of
01:14:56
players we've spent shitloads of money
01:14:57
we spent almost a billion huge whatever
01:14:59
huge and all these players I remember
01:15:01
the foul cows the demerick because I get
01:15:03
excited every time and I celebrate and I
01:15:04
start you know blowing up my friends
01:15:05
WhatsApp chats and saying you're screwed
01:15:07
we're going to win the league yeah and
01:15:08
then every year the player fails and
01:15:10
then the managers sacked yeah so it
01:15:12
feels like a bit of a it's the
01:15:14
expectation of the excitement on the new
01:15:18
players coming in I get this all the
01:15:19
time and I say this quite a lot too
01:15:20
people are here in media you know it's
01:15:23
on a bit oh you need to buy new players
01:15:25
no we buy new players
01:15:27
and I said
01:15:28
I I would really like football to be
01:15:30
where money was not always going to be
01:15:32
the key to you know we think the more
01:15:34
players you see the more money you spend
01:15:35
uh means that you win the league or
01:15:38
you're successful and look I think it
01:15:40
probably will prove that it is
01:15:42
but I'd rather see that you know
01:15:43
sometimes that it's not that way
01:15:46
and I just do think that
01:15:47
quite often you know not buying all the
01:15:49
top players it doesn't mean that you
01:15:51
have to buy the top but I think it's
01:15:52
buying good players and people who get
01:15:55
good characters and people who are going
01:15:56
to gonna work hard for the team and then
01:15:58
they come into that culture which makes
01:16:01
one makes yeah which makes the
01:16:03
difference
01:16:04
of that year yeah less than the year
01:16:07
they had was was probably what we're all
01:16:09
hoping for whether it be us and
01:16:11
now you've seen other clubs I mean
01:16:12
actually Newcastle United for example
01:16:14
Newcastle United bought a couple of uh
01:16:17
with respect to three or four English
01:16:19
players last January British players uh
01:16:22
probably not necessarily on the radar of
01:16:25
the biggest clubs in the country
01:16:26
and it and and they've turned around and
01:16:28
they've had a great they've had an
01:16:30
incredible momentum from probably
01:16:31
January last year and maybe just before
01:16:33
January and are keeping that momentum
01:16:35
going and now they're bringing in the
01:16:37
Reddit in the odd bigger star or the
01:16:39
bigger players as they go along but I
01:16:41
thought the business at the start was
01:16:43
very good if I'm one of your players in
01:16:45
your dressing room
01:16:46
to be a David Moyes player at West Ham
01:16:48
and what would from a character and a
01:16:51
personality standpoint your expectation
01:16:53
be of me
01:16:55
so that I fit into the culture and I'm
01:16:57
successful
01:16:58
I'd want you to be
01:17:00
I'd like you to be hard working I want
01:17:03
you to be honest in your endeavor
01:17:07
I I know I'd want you to do your jobs
01:17:09
whatever you want I want you to be a
01:17:10
team player
01:17:12
the individuals are really important and
01:17:14
no more hugely important we've just seen
01:17:16
in the World Cup individuals but but I I
01:17:18
do think that I I think
01:17:22
to have a consistency about your teamers
01:17:24
you need to have a team
01:17:27
I think if you've got individuals you
01:17:28
might get inconsistency but you may get
01:17:30
some really good days and where you get
01:17:32
Club so you can afford to carry one or
01:17:34
two individual players who go along but
01:17:36
I think well you're trying to build
01:17:38
build I think you have to start with a
01:17:40
really solid base good foundation and
01:17:43
then from that point you try and grow
01:17:45
Pamela you met her at a disco yeah
01:17:48
she was lucky
01:17:53
yeah so I keep telling them it's uh most
01:17:57
people disagree
01:17:58
she's been through it all with you you
01:18:01
know the everything she's followed you
01:18:04
around for decades and supported you in
01:18:07
many many ways and um I've heard about
01:18:09
the sort of dynamic in your relationship
01:18:11
where she's been really really
01:18:12
supporting you kind of do a lot of it
01:18:13
together you're there for each other
01:18:15
tell me in your own words what like uh
01:18:17
what she means to you I guess
01:18:20
well it's the sort of thing you ask that
01:18:22
question you'd probably get emotional if
01:18:23
you start saying that so I'm going to
01:18:25
say that before I start
01:18:26
uh look my wife has been unbelievable
01:18:30
towards me because I remember when we
01:18:32
were young at about what we said is we
01:18:34
didn't earn great money I wasn't I
01:18:36
wasn't a hugely
01:18:38
wealthy footballer when I was getting
01:18:39
paid but I wanted to play football and
01:18:41
would have taken away so
01:18:43
Pamela worked as well
01:18:46
and we had to opt to pay the mortgage
01:18:48
when we were together we were there so
01:18:49
we're it was very much that a together
01:18:52
at the start how we could sort of have a
01:18:55
family how we could we could work
01:18:56
together
01:18:57
and I remember saying to her I said no I
01:18:59
I might need to be a football coach and
01:19:01
I remember when we were courting I said
01:19:02
look
01:19:03
I'll need to go to coaching course and I
01:19:05
might not be here and I need to I want
01:19:06
to try and go and see her it doesn't
01:19:07
remember saying no problem you're going
01:19:09
to do what you have to do and if I
01:19:10
wasn't given that
01:19:12
freedom in nearly years to say good
01:19:15
coaching courses I mean
01:19:16
I went out to see enchilada ACI Moana
01:19:20
I went to the World Cup uh
01:19:23
and I have to say you know I remember I
01:19:25
went to the World Cup and I and because
01:19:27
I didn't have like somebody at the time
01:19:28
and and we weren't skinned but we didn't
01:19:30
have loads of in the PFE helped fund me
01:19:33
so I think at the time the PFA helped
01:19:35
fund me get to the World Cup to go and
01:19:37
watch I remember writing to
01:19:40
I wrote to about five or six countries
01:19:42
and said you know could I come and watch
01:19:44
your training
01:19:45
and none of them replied the only
01:19:47
country I replied was Scotland and Craig
01:19:49
Brown was a manager now I was a Scottish
01:19:51
coach and worked in and not and I was
01:19:53
still young at the time and they invited
01:19:55
me to come and watch training school and
01:19:57
none of the other teams did but my wife
01:20:00
let me get away and get on with it and
01:20:02
try and seek and find out what I needed
01:20:04
to do probably in the hope that
01:20:07
somewhere after my football career was
01:20:09
finished that I might have been able to
01:20:11
do something else but she was she still
01:20:14
has a great inspiration to me uh
01:20:17
and show my kids my kids are good kids
01:20:19
and you know good family and it's really
01:20:22
important to me what role has she played
01:20:24
Pamela in the in the harder times in
01:20:26
your career
01:20:32
you know I think I think
01:20:35
when you're when you're a football
01:20:36
manager you're going to have hard times
01:20:38
so undoubtedly
01:20:40
it's a hard time's been a football
01:20:41
manager hey hard times sometimes mean
01:20:43
you get sacked and you get you get some
01:20:45
money for leaving the job you can look
01:20:46
at that and say hey he's okay with that
01:20:48
but it's not you've got Pride you know
01:20:50
as I said yeah I was probably losing a
01:20:53
job I was more an embarrassment I felt
01:20:55
embarrassed
01:20:56
from from a family really that you know
01:20:58
they were getting talked about they were
01:21:01
getting looked at no
01:21:02
people were shouting now your dad's lost
01:21:04
his job or whatever it may be at that
01:21:06
time so
01:21:09
my wife's just always stood by me and
01:21:11
really supported me whenever it comes to
01:21:13
the games
01:21:15
uh probably knows when she should speak
01:21:17
when she shouldn't speak when it's going
01:21:18
well when it's going badly and even
01:21:21
that's a skill in itself because you
01:21:23
know
01:21:24
when you're in a when you're the boss
01:21:28
that's quite often would respect your
01:21:31
partner quite often could say the wrong
01:21:33
thing at any minute and you and you go
01:21:38
no you might be saying why are you not
01:21:40
thinking about no you're in the wrong
01:21:42
case so I think it's really important
01:21:43
that your partner understands exactly
01:21:45
how you feel well where do you think
01:21:46
you'd be professionally without her uh I
01:21:50
couldn't imagine in it I couldn't
01:21:51
imagine my my life really without my
01:21:54
wife and and you know sometimes I'm not
01:21:56
59 at the moment so I thought we'd get a
01:21:58
good bit to go we've got a good bit to
01:22:00
go
01:22:00
and I want you to look forward to the to
01:22:03
the years where latter years together
01:22:04
where we can have more time together
01:22:05
because
01:22:07
being a football manager means that
01:22:10
you know we're just about every weekend
01:22:12
so yeah either way staying in a hotel
01:22:14
preparing for a game or you're you know
01:22:17
you're
01:22:18
with a team and actually the way
01:22:19
football's gone you're in every Sunday
01:22:21
now you could be in all the time there's
01:22:23
very little family time and it and
01:22:25
actually it's one of the things I think
01:22:27
what people don't understand hey by the
01:22:29
way it's a great job really well paid
01:22:32
game everybody wants to be involved
01:22:34
energy but it's incredibly time
01:22:36
consuming you know and it takes up so
01:22:38
much of your time interview if you have
01:22:40
a family
01:22:42
probably they're the ones who suffer
01:22:44
most because they don't see you as much
01:22:45
as well probably other families may do
01:22:48
if you work uh Monday sort of nine till
01:22:51
five you go home at the weekends at
01:22:52
least uh being a football manager the
01:22:54
weekends uh you're doing it and actually
01:22:58
I'm trying to get a membership with a
01:23:00
golf club at the moment back in my home
01:23:02
I can't get in because in the sea well
01:23:03
no you've got to play away you've got to
01:23:05
play with members and you've got to play
01:23:07
with friends to get an absent I've got
01:23:09
no friends in the business we're in it's
01:23:12
really hard to have lots of friends
01:23:14
outside of our industry the reason why
01:23:17
is because a social time when focusing
01:23:19
here we're going out Friday night we're
01:23:21
going out Saturday night you're coming
01:23:22
with us no I'm in the hotel we've got a
01:23:24
game tomorrow we can't do that or we go
01:23:27
out Saturday night yeah but I lose
01:23:28
obviously I'm not gonna lose Saturday
01:23:30
night so lots of reasons why uh
01:23:35
even a football manager does a great job
01:23:36
but it's also got lots of anti-social
01:23:39
Behavior things because of how the job
01:23:41
Works Alia you said that you you haven't
01:23:44
been historically so good especially
01:23:45
when you're a younger at
01:23:47
um giving praise I can relate one of the
01:23:50
things that men are particularly bad at
01:23:52
is um letting and I'm speaking about
01:23:54
myself here is letting their significant
01:23:56
other know how much they appreciate them
01:23:58
I think women are usually better at kind
01:24:00
of that that affection and saying the
01:24:02
kind words and stuff and as men I know
01:24:04
this for myself I don't think my partner
01:24:05
actually has a clue how much she means
01:24:07
to me and how much she's been there for
01:24:08
me in the hottest times and just her
01:24:09
presence sometimes when she says nothing
01:24:11
in the hard moments how that changes my
01:24:13
state
01:24:15
um if Pamela is watching this
01:24:17
what are the words you wish you could
01:24:19
tell her that maybe you haven't told her
01:24:20
uh she would probably know that a lover
01:24:23
of course she would I would hope she
01:24:25
would but more importantly that I miss
01:24:28
her because I'm in London a lot of the
01:24:30
time she's she's up north she's caring
01:24:33
for her mom a lot at the moment
01:24:35
I just really over the time she's been
01:24:39
she's been great we've we've had great
01:24:41
times together and but always want to
01:24:43
say I think my best times in in football
01:24:45
Hope was still to come but hopefully her
01:24:48
best time is a couple are still to come
01:24:49
as well
01:24:51
David thank you thank you for lots of
01:24:54
inspiration over the many many many
01:24:55
years and lots of good memories in
01:24:57
football
01:24:57
um you've been an incredible manager all
01:24:59
the clubs you've been at in my view and
01:25:00
I do wish that Manchester United had
01:25:02
given you more of a chance because I
01:25:04
just generally believe everything you
01:25:05
say about the importance of when when
01:25:07
you come into a new system or
01:25:08
organization needing that time to
01:25:09
understand and make it your own so even
01:25:11
as a Manchester United fan I was always
01:25:12
I'm always really annoyed at how quickly
01:25:15
we've
01:25:16
um moved on with our managers before
01:25:18
giving them a chance because they're all
01:25:19
objectively great managers and you
01:25:21
certainly are as well
01:25:22
um and it's just an honor to meet you
01:25:23
because you know I've watched you on the
01:25:25
screens for for decades so thank you we
01:25:28
have a closing tradition on this podcast
01:25:29
where the last guest asks a question for
01:25:32
the next guest
01:25:33
um
01:25:38
and the question left for you is
01:25:42
what is the biggest public misconception
01:25:46
about something that has happened in
01:25:48
your life
01:25:53
uh
01:25:55
after thinking about it I think that
01:25:56
there was a
01:25:58
I felt it was a few untruths at the end
01:26:00
when I lost my job at Manchester United
01:26:01
actually
01:26:02
and I found it very difficult to correct
01:26:05
I felt that you know they had been
01:26:06
written so it was very difficult to
01:26:08
correct them uh you know which they
01:26:11
weren't right and uh from that point of
01:26:14
view I couldn't turn about it and I
01:26:15
found that actually
01:26:17
probably one of the biggest difficulties
01:26:19
because you try you want to say well
01:26:21
here I'll explain why I made this
01:26:23
decision I'll explain why I chose to do
01:26:25
that uh but really once the headline's
01:26:28
there that's the only thing that matters
01:26:30
you've got to give me one yeah which I
01:26:31
think I won that's what I think uh
01:26:36
I've got I've got this one but I don't
01:26:38
know if I don't want to give the
01:26:39
player's name
01:26:41
so uh I mean it was actually uh so
01:26:44
somewhere like they said that Manchester
01:26:47
United had banned chips on a Friday Rio
01:26:49
had said in his book that had banned
01:26:51
chips I read that yeah I did and uh it
01:26:54
was actually
01:26:55
something which
01:26:57
probably most sports profession you
01:27:00
wouldn't really have chips but then in
01:27:04
part of it but understood Manchester
01:27:06
United Sir Alex done a lot a lot of
01:27:08
things maybe slightly different in I
01:27:10
totally respected that and what happened
01:27:12
is I remember it was one of my first
01:27:14
first games were staying in the hotel
01:27:15
and there was one player who was
01:27:17
overweight which I won't name
01:27:20
and I remember walking in and I was
01:27:21
walking into the dining room and he had
01:27:23
his dinner and next to me they had a
01:27:25
side plate of chips
01:27:27
and that was my reason for after that
01:27:30
scene that one player without the side
01:27:32
portionship that was my reason for
01:27:34
saying there should be no chips on a
01:27:35
Friday night and it was sort of written
01:27:37
about that that was one of the the
01:27:39
reason but my reason was actually
01:27:40
because one of the players who was
01:27:42
actually at the time a bit overweight a
01:27:45
song with a with a side player chips and
01:27:47
that's when I used our band them if you
01:27:50
want to say that interesting thank you
01:27:52
so much David for your time thank you so
01:27:54
much thank you
01:27:56
[Music]
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[Music]