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Frank Lampard Finally Speaks Out About What REALLY Happened At Chelsea | E264

July 13, 2023 / 01:55:39

This episode features Frank Lampard discussing his career, personal challenges, and the current state of Chelsea Football Club. Topics include his relationship with his father, the impact of his mother's passing, and insights into managing high-profile teams.

Frank Lampard reflects on his upbringing in Romford, Essex, and the influence of his father, a former professional footballer. He shares how his father's tough love shaped his work ethic and fear of failure, which drove him throughout his career.

He opens up about the emotional toll of losing his mother while playing at the highest level, describing the experience as a "zombie" phase where he went through the motions of his job. Lampard emphasizes the importance of mental health and the challenges of balancing personal grief with professional responsibilities.

Discussing his time as Chelsea's interim manager, Lampard addresses the issues he observed within the squad, including low standards and player motivation. He expresses hope for the club's future under new management and the need for a cohesive team culture.

In closing, Lampard shares his thoughts on player recruitment and the importance of aligning club philosophy with managerial vision, highlighting the complexities of modern football management.

TL;DR

Frank Lampard discusses his career, personal loss, and Chelsea's current challenges, emphasizing the need for strong team culture and effective management.

Video

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when you get that call had you known the

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context the behind the scenes that

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unhealthy culture honestly do you think

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you would have made a different decision

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I think I think I can say this

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Chelsea Legends

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I read the dad was the biggest influence

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on your career and then I read a

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separate quote saying sometimes I hated

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him you know my dad was a tough man

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pushed me very hard on the football

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front and it got probably a bit too much

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the fear of failure was a huge driving

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force that made me what I was and gave

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me the career I got in the end

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Chelsea fans will be listening to this

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because they want to get your opinion on

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what's just happened because since

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you've left we've not really heard from

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you I came back here because this was an

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opportunity to come to Chelsea travel

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close to my heart but I could see and

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training the level wasn't enough the

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size of the squad with players that will

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test you and question you questioning

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you and then Chelsea spends more money

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than anyone's ever spent in a window it

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seemed like Tails could see that the

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players were ready for the season to

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finish but low standards are a symptom

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of something further Upstream that's

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happened you know we didn't get the

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results I wanted and I know a lot of the

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reasons why like what so

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one moment occurred in your life that

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really tested you at a much deeper level

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the passing of your mother and while you

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were playing at the very very highest

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level I was a mummy's boy I lost the

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closest person to me you know everything

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to me the emotional support I want to

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say something more you know and I

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couldn't

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what would you want to say

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Frank is a legend there's absolutely no

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denying that

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but so much has happened in recent times

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in his life as a manager that unanswered

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questions remain and I wanted to have a

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conversation with Frank an honest open

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conversation to see if we could get to

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the bottom of some of those unanswered

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questions

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what was happening behind the scenes

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how did it actually feel for Frank

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is anyone to blame what does Frank want

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to do next in how and what caused Frank

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to be the man that he is and that's

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maybe the most fascinating question of

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all

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because there's some things

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that Frank has just never talked about

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before

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but he's made the decision to talk about

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them today and if you have unanswered

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questions

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I don't think you will at the end of

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this episode

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[Music]

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Frank

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[Music]

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how are you doing really well thank you

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there's always a there's always a short

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and long answer to that isn't it

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I was waiting for your second drink

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what's the what's the long version of of

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that no I'm doing really well I'm um I'm

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currently uh on a break I suppose from

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working

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which is a pleasure in ways because I am

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obviously the the work of a the manager

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uh I was gonna say Premier League

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manager but any manager in football is

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intense

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um so at the moment I'm on a break sort

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of holiday time for me a little bit

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family time

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um and probably when I'm

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out of work I learned this when I left

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Chelsea actually

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um

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it was I had a year out after that and I

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really learned to try to improve my

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appreciation of when you're out of work

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you're fortunate enough to be able to be

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out of work whatever that circumstance

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is but try and enjoy your family and be

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very very present so the minute I'm

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pretty present at home which is a good

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thing hopefully for my children and wife

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and uh I'm in a pretty good place

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I remember my my brain would often drift

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off when I had my time out of work

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um and I would think about things

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professionally so I'd think about things

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that I could be doing or you'd think

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back to the past when you're when you're

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having those moments where you'll meet I

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know your kids are running around and

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you you have a moment where your brain

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drifts off to work what is what are the

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subjects that your brain starts thinking

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about professionally

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you you think a lot in management uh

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about people so if I if I reflect on

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situations like leaving Chelsea or

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leaving Everton and those things there

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is there are a lot of things that are

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out of your control

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you get to a point where you kind of can

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get probably 70 of them and lock them

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away and kind of go and I'm right with

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that you know results you can't control

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but 70 you kind of you're okay with and

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there's 30 that you kind of niggles at

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you that's how I am and a lot of those

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things when you become manager and maybe

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sort of like people things I think

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there's sort of tactics and all these

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things are huge in a modern game and I

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I'm certainly a coach I'm not a manager

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but when it comes to managing I don't

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know 25 30 players managing and building

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because you are the figured head of a

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building when you're the head coach or

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manager I think sometimes when you're

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reflecting you can reflect on things did

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I have that was that interaction right

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would I have dealt with that right could

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I dealt with it differently and

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hindsight is like the best best thing

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you know it's so simple to sit there be

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hindsight and think you know I should

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have done that so I suppose I had

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moments where I go over things like that

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but they're all with a with a yearning

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to sort of be a bit better or learn that

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you might have done something wrong or

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actually you come to conclusion oh maybe

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did it right so you know I dip in and

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out of that stuff

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um and that probably is you know as I

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say I wouldn't say I'm the only one but

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I certainly am someone that is you know

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I can never control when those moments

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come I can be now pushing the swing you

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know with my kid and then my mind goes

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back to something called things ahead to

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something and you know that probably

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means that I'm absolutely invested in

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what I do

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yeah I can relate to all of that I think

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any anybody can um and I also really

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like your analogy of once you get to

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like 50 70 piece with something it's

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kind of resolved as much as you know

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yeah and then there's other things which

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feel kind of unresolved I guess or

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there's more wisdom to Garner from those

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experiences well I think if you don't

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get to peace with a 70 I think you can

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get yourself in a bit of a mess you know

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I think you can go over everything and

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correct yourself and then what is the

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answer going forward so I think kind of

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understanding what you are and then

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going no no that was fine whatever the

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result for a win or for a loss I've had

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games as a coach and as a player where I

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I we've won a game and I know I got

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something wrong in the game but you take

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the plot it's afterwards but inside I

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know I got it wrong I've had games that

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we've lost and you get criticism from

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the outside and I know my prep was right

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you know in my head so I think those

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sort of things you can kind of Stack Up

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and Go no that's fine but then there's

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always the 30 and we'll always strive

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for and it might be less I don't know if

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30 sounds a big number when I say it

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sometimes it's 10 to try and make you as

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good as you can be so I kind of go over

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that stuff because when you're out of

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work when you're not working and you

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don't know in foot we don't know what

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your next gig is you know it's very hard

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to jump too far into the future because

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everything looks different there so how

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can you stack yourself up as good as you

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can now

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I want to get into all of that but I I

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want to take a step back because I think

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um I feel like there's more I need to

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understand about who you are as a person

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and your characters and your character

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and really the the like the foundations

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you're built upon to understand all of

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these things the things we're going to

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talk about so what do I what do I need

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to know about Frank Lampard in terms of

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the influences and the experiences that

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shaped your character the character of

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the man that sat in front of me because

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you know I've spoken to a lot of people

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about you in preparation of this

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conversation no no but they all they all

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seem to sing from the exact same him

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shoot they all say everyone says you're

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just a a wonderful man like a really

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good solid gentleman and it's people

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don't know this but we weren't going to

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have this conversation before yeah but

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you've just been a total Class Act in

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even not being able to come last time

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because of you know reasons outside of

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your control

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um the way you conduct yourself you just

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conduct yourself as a real gentleman

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um and then in terms of your mentality

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when I was reading through your early

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years it's clear that there was this

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real

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Obsession to be better I mean Harry said

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Harry redknapp said that you were the

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hardest training hardest working person

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he's ever worked with when you're a

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young man

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tell me what do I why is Frank Lampard

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the way he is I I grew up in in Romford

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in Essex so

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um I will call it probably a middle

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class upbringing in terms of my dad had

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been a professional footballer

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um and so I went through a pretty um

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comfortable upbringing where I was down

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to school every day aspiring to do

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pretty well at school

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um training pretty much every day and

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plan at the weekend so after school

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we'll go and try and Tottenham and

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Arsenal and West Ham at one point I was

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trying little three you could in those

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days now it's different

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uh I was playing Cricket I was playing

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for Essex as a child so that was on

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Monday night having Nets at Chelmsford

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and then on Saturday I went to school

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he's going to school on Saturday so she

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was devastated with at the time as we

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all were but that was how the school

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works and on Sundays I played so my more

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week was so busy but it was content very

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content in terms of relationship of my

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family I had a a dad who was pushed me

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very hard on the football front very

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very hard it was quite a hard task

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master what does that mean in reality

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um that means that probably when I was

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probably started kicking the ball when I

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was at four or maybe it seems like a

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walk but you know like remembering my

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early days would be four or five and

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then so that was me in terms of I loved

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the football

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um but probably by the time I was eight

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or nine I was probably getting like

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coached or pushed in in what 15 or 16

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year old might be when they're sort of

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going into an academy at West hamster

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where I ended up as in work on your

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weaknesses go over the park you need to

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have more stamina you if it's not good

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enough your agility is not good enough

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so I was like

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used to put down the the the cushions in

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the front room and had me doing reaction

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for our ball against the one react and

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jump I'm a kid I I loved it don't get me

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wrong but there were times when I didn't

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love it and it got probably a bit too

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much I'm not gonna

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cry about it because it made me what I

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was and gave me the career I got in the

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end and then on the other flip of that

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so I had that pushy kind of thing and so

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after a game on a Sunday we would lose

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and I would get he would give me some

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criticism on the way home and I would be

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a bit emotional and fortunately for me

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when I think about sort of

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fight and how things work together to

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maybe get used to where you got you you

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end up being my mother was the the flip

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the emotional support the you know arm

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around you the quiet word I was a

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mummy's boy and that was completely my

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upbringing so as I say it was pretty

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comfortable and in the end it led to me

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leaving school with my gcses getting

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decent grades and then going to sign on

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as a yts at the time an apprentice at

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West Ham

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I read that the quote about your father

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I think it was in the independent that

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your dad was the biggest influence on

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your career and then I read a separate

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quote saying that I have an awful lot to

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thank him for but sometimes I hated him

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yeah I I stick by that quiet

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I think you'll probably find it um

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a lot in stories similar to mine

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um and in the modern day I think it's

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changed because I think parents now

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might the thing with my story then in a

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different era was it it felt pretty

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organic my dad had played

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um he saw probably a bit of talent in me

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and pushed and drove in an old school

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way I want you to be a player son you

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know and he was like he think I think he

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found a new sense of pride in pushing me

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there now I think some parents get

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excited about all the bright lights that

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may be and they push their children and

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I think that's another story but I think

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mine was real you know my dad was a

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tough man is a tough man and he pushed

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me and um I remember being over a park

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and it was raining it was crossing balls

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for me to head hedden's never been a

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strength of mine

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throughout my career and I couldn't you

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know I couldn't connect I was missing

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them and he was shouting at me and I

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remember sort of stomping off and and

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being emotional about it and um those

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things stick in my head and again they

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were the building blocks of of myself as

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a person so you know I this isn't a sob

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story it's just a reality of what I went

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through and as I started a lot of other

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comfort so I you know other people don't

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have it as good and it was without that

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who knows in a football sense if I'd

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have got to where I got and how does

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that um what relationship does that make

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you have with your work and progress and

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self-improvement at that very young age

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because you sign up West Ham when you're

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14 years oldish uh 15 maybe 15 yeah 15.

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and and I and I I mean as I said I read

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that Harry redknapp quote that you

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outworked everybody else yeah um

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what what is your relationship with your

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work yeah from that very young age well

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I I I'm sort of

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um really interested in this kind of

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nature versus nurture thing

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um what was in me already was ingrained

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in me maybe to be this kind of very work

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ethicy kind of person I think I had you

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know physical capacity I was a chubby

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kid to be fair I was quite chubby at

00:12:27

these cheeks curtains as you had in

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those days and I remember like I know I

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needed to get fitter and

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um and get stronger so

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um and then being pushed by my dad

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particularly and encouraged by my mum

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probably gave me this real desire

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um to an understanding that if you don't

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work you're not going to get there and

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that you know that's what I would try

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and pass on to my children now but it

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really stuck and it became me so by the

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time of being you know 16 as I remember

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it probably been at West End my early

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years I'd probably been forced into a

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bit by my dad but I took it on board so

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you know I wanted to get faster so he

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put me in running spikes and I had to

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run after training go and run over the

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back and I used to hide my spikes go out

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the backs I didn't want the other

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players to see me because I felt

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embarrassed

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um I'd go in on days off

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um I would practice extra shooting I

00:13:16

would do everything I could to to

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improve and it probably was looking back

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um a desire to be the best and I was

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never the best I was probably like the

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second or third best kid in pretty much

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every team that I played in in whatever

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I did Cricket or football

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um but I had a real desire to and I also

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had a fear of failure and as much as

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that doesn't sound like a nice driving

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force it can be a really strong driving

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force I think where did that fear of

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failure come from I don't know I don't

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know I think it's in my makeup maybe I

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don't know it's probably just how I am I

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probably have it still these days I

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think it can be really positive it was

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in my footballing career and it carried

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on throughout probably still in my

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management career

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um it can probably be the flip of that

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in my life because if I fear of failing

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something I won't approach it and I

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that's me I don't want that you know my

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wife will always Christine jokes with me

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when we go on holiday and you want to

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paddle board or something I'm not going

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near that because I know I'm going to

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fall off a lot you know so she'll laugh

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at me so I'm like you paddleboard I'll

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lay on the beach or I'll lay on the Lilo

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or something like that I actually use

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the paddle board as a lie like that's

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like that's the joke but in the biggest

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sense in my life you know that fear of

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failure is and as it can probably maybe

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make me uh not try things I should do

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but in terms of my footballing career

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the fear of failure was a huge driving

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force and I don't think it's a bad thing

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because I think there's a certain

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humility to it and my mum would

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certainly have been a driver of me as a

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young person just like stay humble son

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stay humble never get too higher stay

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there and you'll be fine in your own

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head so I think I had a real

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understanding of my weaknesses and I

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thought well if I can work on these

00:14:50

constantly and then I started to see

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results really step by step sometimes

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you go back you go forward a few but I I

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can certainly say looking back at my

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career from start to finish

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I didn't leave anything on the table in

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terms of work ethic and training you

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know I don't want to sound like an

00:15:04

absolute machine there'll be days when

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you get older where you come off it a

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bit or you you start to find life

00:15:09

affection different ways but I I when I

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look at my peers in football

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um I certainly had a training ethic that

00:15:16

at least stood right at the top whether

00:15:18

you know others can stay the same maybe

00:15:19

but I felt that I mean that's the Harry

00:15:21

redknapp quote he says that

00:15:24

um during his career

00:15:26

um he never met anyone that trained as

00:15:27

hard as Frank he would be out there on a

00:15:29

Winter's day practice and shooting for

00:15:31

hours Left Foot Right Foot etc etc

00:15:34

that fear of failure though I can see

00:15:36

how it becomes a driving force and makes

00:15:37

you stay out there on a Winter's day

00:15:39

Left Foot Right Foot at him leaving no

00:15:41

stone unturned but with all these things

00:15:43

there comes there comes a more a cost on

00:15:46

the other side of the coin right

00:15:47

and you I mean you talked about the

00:15:49

paddle board thing which is that like

00:15:50

kind of if I don't do it then I won't

00:15:52

fail but one of the things that I was

00:15:54

assuming is it would also make you quite

00:15:55

a chronic overthinker yeah because I

00:15:58

think people that have that fear of

00:15:59

failure they try and think their way

00:16:01

through a situation before it happens

00:16:04

yeah typically what is the cost of being

00:16:06

that having that fear of failure

00:16:08

um well the other thinking thing is

00:16:10

maybe a cost and I think that can be a

00:16:12

positive too but I think it can be quite

00:16:13

taxing on yourself you know for anyone

00:16:16

with things like that and you know

00:16:18

sometimes I would I've tried to make

00:16:21

myself you know not an overthinker

00:16:23

however you do that I don't know because

00:16:25

I've not found a solution to that one

00:16:27

because

00:16:28

um I think that's when you are that um

00:16:30

it's in you so

00:16:32

um probably the the the the negative or

00:16:36

downsides have been probably a bit taxi

00:16:38

than myself but I think you learned to

00:16:39

live with that too and I think you

00:16:40

understand it I think it's um

00:16:42

something that I'll never master and

00:16:45

um it can probably cause you in to over

00:16:49

complicate in situations like you're

00:16:50

saying about I don't want to get into

00:16:51

that but if you do get into something

00:16:52

and you're really overthinking you have

00:16:54

to get into something

00:16:55

I now try and step back and simplify and

00:16:57

say stop overthinking it simplify it

00:16:59

because for me anything in life if you

00:17:01

can simplify the basics you probably get

00:17:03

quicker to the solution so

00:17:05

um that one's just a struggle that I put

00:17:07

up with but as I say I think it's just

00:17:08

part of my makeup if I wasn't an

00:17:10

overthinker if I didn't have that sort

00:17:11

of obsessive sort of perfectionist

00:17:13

training Drive I wouldn't have got to

00:17:16

where I got to because I was not Lionel

00:17:18

Messi who has this god-given Talent

00:17:21

that's there like wherever my talent was

00:17:22

on the Spectrum I needed to push it and

00:17:25

I constantly try to how did you enjoy

00:17:27

the process if you're overthinking I

00:17:30

weirdly like I've really grown to like

00:17:33

the stress of what it brings and that's

00:17:36

and that that's you might start thinking

00:17:38

I'm a strange person I don't know but I

00:17:40

loved

00:17:41

stressful training you know to put on a

00:17:43

physical site for instance I loved like

00:17:45

that feeling of like almost feeling sick

00:17:47

on a pre-season run or you know really

00:17:50

intense training sessions I I really

00:17:52

enjoyed that maybe not always in the

00:17:54

moment but you know when you get to the

00:17:55

end of it you go if I got through that

00:17:56

and it was so intense and hard and maybe

00:17:58

in life sometimes I set myself

00:17:59

challenges and maybe I'll make it more

00:18:01

complicated than I should but I don't

00:18:03

mind that stuff and that's probably when

00:18:04

I was started off talking about that

00:18:05

relax when you're with your children I

00:18:07

think I'm still

00:18:08

um juggling that one and I think

00:18:10

probably a lot of people are I don't

00:18:11

know I think you know being overthink is

00:18:12

not something unique to me it's

00:18:14

completely everywhere

00:18:16

um but I don't I don't know what else to

00:18:19

say and that's what I am that that

00:18:21

enjoying the the pain like the preseason

00:18:24

run if you feel sick then you feel good

00:18:25

about yourself yeah why

00:18:28

I don't know I mean I went to the gym

00:18:30

this morning and I really didn't want to

00:18:32

go and I bought the dog and my time

00:18:34

limit's getting shorter and I'm gonna go

00:18:36

and I want to go I'm going to go in

00:18:37

because I know the buzz that'll get off

00:18:39

afterwards and that's kind of my drug

00:18:40

and always has been and you know it

00:18:43

probably starts from all those early

00:18:44

days of you know you must work hard you

00:18:46

must push yourself you must be as fit as

00:18:47

you can be and it probably just stuck

00:18:48

and it's probably a bit of a lifer for

00:18:51

me um but I do I do thankfully I I I I

00:18:54

enjoy the stress of hard work and

00:18:57

physical but less now I'll finish you

00:18:59

know now it's more to

00:19:01

not get too unhealthy and unfit whereas

00:19:03

when I was training and playing

00:19:06

even when I finished playing for a

00:19:07

couple of years if I went for a 5k I

00:19:09

need to beat my 5K PB I have to try and

00:19:12

beat it now when I do a 5k I'm just

00:19:14

going to complete it you know and I'm

00:19:16

completing it in like 20 or 30 seconds

00:19:18

less so I've I've dropped that one

00:19:20

slightly and maybe I transfer it into

00:19:22

other parts of my life I guess quick one

00:19:24

before we get back to this episode just

00:19:26

give me 30 seconds of your time

00:19:27

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00:19:29

thing is a huge thank you for listening

00:19:31

and tuning into the show week after week

00:19:33

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00:19:35

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00:19:36

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00:19:38

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00:19:40

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00:19:42

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00:19:44

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00:19:47

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00:19:55

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00:19:59

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00:20:01

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00:20:03

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00:20:04

to continue to keep doing all of the

00:20:06

things you love about the show

00:20:08

thank you thank you so much back to the

00:20:10

episode when you when you finished your

00:20:12

footballing career you know there's many

00:20:14

options you had punditry I mean I'm just

00:20:17

talking about the typical path to that

00:20:18

footballers sometimes they just go into

00:20:20

business yeah a few of them going to

00:20:21

coaching and stay in football but you

00:20:23

you made the decision to stay in

00:20:24

football why

00:20:26

and was there anything else that was

00:20:27

tempting you well I did Panda tree for a

00:20:29

year so I spent a year working mainly on

00:20:32

BT and doing some different things BBC I

00:20:34

did a few bits and and I really enjoyed

00:20:36

it it was great I was working a lot with

00:20:37

real Ferdinand Stephen Gerrard

00:20:40

um Jake Humphrey who had them recently

00:20:41

and just really good people and and it

00:20:43

was like a step in the game and a step

00:20:46

of retired so I can do other stuff that

00:20:48

you know the life of a pundit is you

00:20:50

know much easier than the manager we all

00:20:52

know that so I kind of put my eggs in

00:20:54

both Baskets at that point I did that

00:20:55

and I did my coaching Badges and I

00:20:57

wanted to kind of see how I felt a

00:20:59

little bit and I didn't want to be a

00:21:01

manager in my 20s when I got to my 30s I

00:21:02

was like that's interesting people

00:21:03

managers now what how what are they

00:21:05

dealing with I just thought about myself

00:21:06

in my 20s more

00:21:08

um and then when I finished I did my

00:21:10

coaching badges I started to quite like

00:21:12

it and then I've got an offer out of the

00:21:13

blue to go and manage Derby Derby County

00:21:15

the owner Mel Morris kind of went out in

00:21:17

a bit of a limb he was speaking to Harry

00:21:20

redknapp who's my uncle

00:21:22

um Harry said to speak to Frank we sat

00:21:24

for two hours in Chelsea in a hotel and

00:21:26

he offer me the job and it was like um

00:21:30

a Christian has a sound and it's like

00:21:31

jump and the net will appear and we sat

00:21:34

in my front room and I was like you know

00:21:36

I've done my coaching badges but this is

00:21:38

a proper job I go to Derby just they've

00:21:40

got some problems and it's going to be a

00:21:42

difficult job or whatever that's all

00:21:43

jobs are and I jumped

00:21:45

why

00:21:47

um

00:21:48

that inner probably drive that I have in

00:21:50

a desire you know it wasn't something

00:21:52

that I I am an overthinker so that

00:21:54

probably made that process that those

00:21:56

couple of days where I had to make a

00:21:57

decision really intense but at the same

00:21:59

time I I like a challenge I love a

00:22:01

challenge and as much as I enjoy

00:22:03

punditry it was

00:22:05

you know it's it's challenging you want

00:22:07

to do it well you want to do it like you

00:22:08

know the top boys do it you have to put

00:22:09

everything into it and do it really well

00:22:12

um but I

00:22:14

I was when I wanted more I wanted to

00:22:17

to get on the grass I wanted to work

00:22:19

with pliers I wanted to try and improve

00:22:20

pliers I wanted to see if I could do it

00:22:22

it's probably more if I'm honest

00:22:23

probably can I do it and can I you know

00:22:26

do something and I was probably naive at

00:22:27

the time because the minute I walked

00:22:28

into Derby I was like wow this is

00:22:30

different you know I've got to hold them

00:22:31

I am now holding the meeting rather than

00:22:33

one of the 25 players sitting listening

00:22:36

and as much as you can think I'll do

00:22:37

that the minute you're walking and you

00:22:39

see those 25 faces and then you walk to

00:22:41

to say hello to Jeanette who's your

00:22:43

secretary and this one and the Playa

00:22:45

liaison I'm like oh

00:22:47

have I got to manage all this as well

00:22:50

and you do you have to sort of you know

00:22:51

the building is yours to kind of set the

00:22:53

tone so that first year some of it was

00:22:55

good you know I think sometimes in

00:22:56

management a great manager said to me

00:22:57

this

00:22:59

he said and he was all he's old he was

00:23:01

old and he said to me I think I was a

00:23:03

better manager when I was young in many

00:23:05

many ways he said because when I as I

00:23:06

got older I started to really sort of

00:23:08

overthink things and become a little bit

00:23:10

more cynical and you know you kind of go

00:23:12

over these things when I was young I

00:23:13

just make decisions and I was kind of

00:23:14

free to do it now I think there's a

00:23:16

balance to that experience is obviously

00:23:18

a clear can clearly help as you go along

00:23:20

you learn from mistakes but I unders I

00:23:22

understood his point when he said that

00:23:23

because I walked into Derby fresh

00:23:24

and I made a lot of mistakes because you

00:23:26

always will but I also had a freshness

00:23:29

and a bounce and a feeling inside I've

00:23:31

made it was kind of I want to take this

00:23:32

on and even though those moments of fear

00:23:34

you know that kind of when you feel like

00:23:36

a bit of imposter syndrome should I be

00:23:38

doing this and you've got hired it like

00:23:39

I remember having a whistle for the

00:23:40

first day and trying to in the training

00:23:42

pitch again

00:23:43

I'm going to blow this at the end of

00:23:44

training and I've been used to hearing

00:23:46

about this sounds so stupid I've been

00:23:48

used to hearing coaches go end of the

00:23:50

session stop I was a bit like what kind

00:23:52

of whistling I didn't want to do like a

00:23:53

little

00:23:54

I don't remember guys so let alone like

00:23:57

I've got a bigger team and set the

00:23:58

tactics and set the tone I was about all

00:24:00

those little stings and I think every if

00:24:03

they were honest I think you know people

00:24:04

in business yourself have all had those

00:24:06

the most simple things where you're

00:24:08

sitting there going wow that little

00:24:09

basic thing that I didn't consider is

00:24:11

now in my head yeah so I had a lot of

00:24:13

those and it was you know we got to the

00:24:15

playoff final we got to Wembley we lost

00:24:16

a final against Aston Villa to get to

00:24:18

the Premier League and I was so

00:24:20

disappointed for the club at Derby and

00:24:21

the owner had given me you know put

00:24:22

everything into me and we had a really

00:24:25

good year and got there and and we lost

00:24:26

it but in terms of um that first year of

00:24:28

management yeah my drive took me into it

00:24:30

and it was just a huge learning curve

00:24:32

and it was a really enjoyable year

00:24:34

imposter syndrome that I mean that's

00:24:36

somewhat linked to I guess your fear of

00:24:38

failure have you how does we talk a lot

00:24:41

about imposter syndrome on this podcast

00:24:42

because it's it's a it's a two it's a

00:24:45

double-sided thing on one hand you have

00:24:47

that feeling of um which I can recall

00:24:49

when I became a dragon on Dragon's Den

00:24:50

and I'm sat next to Peter Jones and

00:24:51

Deborah meaden Peter Jones has been

00:24:53

there for 21 Seasons since the beginning

00:24:55

Deborah Mead has been there for 17 and I

00:24:57

feel like I've just walked into the TV

00:24:58

yeah like your little whistle thing was

00:25:00

me like how do I say I'm out okay

00:25:02

exactly yeah um but being at peace with

00:25:05

that like how do you how have you dealt

00:25:06

with that in your career because you

00:25:07

went from being a pundit to managing a

00:25:10

club that was trying to get promotion to

00:25:12

then Chelsea these are huge leaps

00:25:14

forward yeah huge leaps forward um I

00:25:17

think uh I probably managed to get

00:25:20

coping mechanisms along the way that

00:25:23

have uh put that to the side and in

00:25:25

simple sense

00:25:27

I've become much more confident in

00:25:28

myself

00:25:30

um

00:25:30

away from work away from work actually

00:25:32

at home much more content in myself

00:25:34

again it probably comes back to being

00:25:36

really settled in relationship I am 45

00:25:37

now just turned

00:25:39

um but in the workplace as well I've

00:25:42

um that first year I remember feeling it

00:25:44

a lot and when I moved to Chelsea like

00:25:45

it should be a huge move it's a huge

00:25:47

jump to the Champions League club even

00:25:49

though I knew the club very well it was

00:25:51

a huge jump to deal with players of a

00:25:52

different stature Etc

00:25:55

um but I have found that imposter

00:25:57

syndrome thing much less and I had just

00:25:59

had coping mechanisms where I could kind

00:26:01

of just go

00:26:02

okay you're nervous taking this meeting

00:26:04

because you're a bit out of your comfort

00:26:05

zone you've got to be critical of a

00:26:06

player so you're going to go in on

00:26:08

someone you're going to show a video of

00:26:09

the game the other day and it's like

00:26:10

that's that's not a comfortable thing to

00:26:12

do always and I just probably have found

00:26:15

mechanisms to be able to go right you

00:26:16

almost go into the character and that

00:26:19

doesn't sound like an actor too much but

00:26:20

you're going I'm just going to go into

00:26:21

it and the more I think you do that

00:26:24

um the better you can be at coping with

00:26:25

that thing and then you just kind of

00:26:27

also have to get a realization that you

00:26:28

know you can feel a bit like that you

00:26:30

can feel a little bit like I'm out of my

00:26:31

comfort zone that you can make mistakes

00:26:33

I think showing that you can make a

00:26:35

mistake in front of a group of players

00:26:37

is not the worst thing you know they're

00:26:39

there to the players will get it you

00:26:41

make the smallest mistake one of those

00:26:42

25 at least is going to go well that

00:26:44

when he said that you know but I think

00:26:45

you've got to come to peace with that

00:26:47

and you can even joke about it after the

00:26:48

event because you'll keep making them so

00:26:49

I'll probably come come to terms we've

00:26:51

been able to deal with that side of it I

00:26:52

think I am I I was thinking then as

00:26:55

you're speaking actually about

00:26:56

my experience being a dragon and when um

00:26:59

one of the things I've always wondered

00:27:00

about players when they go from being a

00:27:03

player to a manager and especially when

00:27:05

they've been managed under a legend of a

00:27:07

manager so like I was thinking about

00:27:08

Ollie um oligon Associates Alex Ferguson

00:27:11

yeah how hard is it to like be yourself

00:27:14

versus be the successful manager that

00:27:17

you saw when like because even when I

00:27:19

became a dragon I think for the first

00:27:21

two years for sure I was

00:27:23

trying to be a dragon yeah not being

00:27:25

Steve yeah yeah and that's a that's a

00:27:28

journey but do you understand the

00:27:29

question I completely get it I get asked

00:27:31

it a lot and I'm not in not in exactly

00:27:33

the way you guys but I get asked by

00:27:34

football journalists who say so what did

00:27:36

you take out of all your managers you

00:27:37

play and all this stuff and you know

00:27:39

just to jump to one would be Jose

00:27:41

Mourinho it's a good one to jump to

00:27:42

because he had a huge effect on my

00:27:43

career as many did but he came and

00:27:45

probably elevated me in my playing

00:27:47

career to a different level and what I

00:27:51

learned from Jose and as I then went on

00:27:53

to managers after that was the the thing

00:27:55

that impressed me about Joseph there was

00:27:57

a real authentic nature to him like when

00:28:00

he was self-confident overconfident kind

00:28:02

of brash Jose that's him you know that

00:28:06

was him and you know maybe he's playing

00:28:07

up a bit now and again but I saw him

00:28:08

behind the scenes and then when I've

00:28:10

worked with other managers that maybe

00:28:12

were probably striving to be something

00:28:13

like that and I think after Joe said it

00:28:15

was a there were a generation of

00:28:16

managers that were a bit like okay I'm

00:28:18

gonna wear this I'm going to wear the

00:28:20

scarf and I'm going to type them with

00:28:21

you know or act a bit kind of you know

00:28:23

say those things he used to say and does

00:28:26

say

00:28:27

um and I didn't I didn't buy it as such

00:28:29

and even from outside when you're

00:28:30

watching manager you know you have that

00:28:32

impression so I think probably you go

00:28:34

okay can I take things from all these

00:28:35

managers for my journalist question yeah

00:28:37

I did from Sam and not from others blah

00:28:39

blah but when you come to it you have to

00:28:41

be yourself because you'll get found out

00:28:42

and you're probably right in my early

00:28:44

days I also did that I did my first

00:28:46

meeting at Derby again was like right

00:28:48

I'm an ex player so anyone who wants to

00:28:49

knock on my door come and see me and

00:28:51

I'll you know I'll tell you the truth

00:28:52

and we'll have it out or I'll you know

00:28:53

I'll give you the answer that you want

00:28:55

and I remember like the first three

00:28:56

weeks they kept knocking on the dock I

00:28:59

was like and I was like to do another

00:29:00

meeting so Lads if you're gonna knock on

00:29:02

my door come to me with like facts of

00:29:04

why you should play you know how's your

00:29:06

training you know come with something I

00:29:07

don't want you just I didn't play on

00:29:08

Saturday like Monday morning there's

00:29:09

like five on the door knocking and you

00:29:12

know open policy in a door is good but

00:29:14

at the same time it was like those are

00:29:15

like learning curves for me like I

00:29:16

probably said that that phrase because I

00:29:19

needed to say it right yeah you know

00:29:21

what I mean because there's a place it's

00:29:22

really so really cool things to play I

00:29:24

want the manager to be able to speak to

00:29:25

me all the time and when I said it I was

00:29:27

like Sam what I thought I should say and

00:29:28

then you know you learn a little lesson

00:29:30

you know my daughter hopefully is still

00:29:31

open now but at the same time I was

00:29:33

probably playing the part of a manager

00:29:36

um and then you kind of go now what's

00:29:38

real to me here you know like do I have

00:29:40

to say that it's another way of saying

00:29:41

it or whatever

00:29:42

and that kind of brings me to a question

00:29:44

which is wouldn't it therefore have been

00:29:46

great for you to go and learn those

00:29:48

lessons when the stakes weren't so high

00:29:51

um because even the stakes are super

00:29:53

high at Derby because you're figuring

00:29:54

out Frank the manager there yeah and

00:29:56

sometimes you don't want to be at the

00:29:57

poker table playing with real money yeah

00:30:00

but but that's my life you know I I know

00:30:03

what you're saying and I think as a as

00:30:05

an as a I think I think I can say this I

00:30:08

think it's an English ex-player Stephen

00:30:10

Gerrard others that have played a high

00:30:12

level you know I've played 100 times to

00:30:14

our country Etc I think pla the the the

00:30:16

the culture in this country is the sort

00:30:18

of say right now you're a manager go and

00:30:20

own your stripes there because being a

00:30:22

player of that level doesn't mean you're

00:30:23

going to be a manager so I think that

00:30:25

could have been a route where you can

00:30:26

kind of get a lot of fair play he went

00:30:27

down to you know division two and he's

00:30:29

showing what he's doing and there's a

00:30:30

process the reality is that path wasn't

00:30:33

for me you know and Mel Morris asked me

00:30:35

to take the Derby job it was a question

00:30:37

yeah challenge yes please I'll take the

00:30:39

challenge you know when I won you there

00:30:42

and Chelsea came to me it was a

00:30:43

difficult time at a transfer ban you

00:30:46

know and as I was leaving it was a real

00:30:47

transition young players what's going to

00:30:49

be there next year I think probably some

00:30:50

big managers just have turned it down I

00:30:52

know that so it was like yeah you know

00:30:54

what challenge I'll take it so you know

00:30:56

I don't want to try and recreate the

00:30:58

past I think why didn't I do that

00:30:59

because you know I've managed in four

00:31:01

years of management I've had some

00:31:03

experience and for all the you know

00:31:05

you'll always get criticism you know you

00:31:06

leave Chelsea people will criticize you

00:31:08

you go to Everton you stay up you get

00:31:10

relegated people to criticize you but at

00:31:12

the same time I'm I am resilient enough

00:31:14

to deal with all that stuff now that's

00:31:15

been probably the beauty of having a

00:31:17

long career in football and so my my

00:31:20

thing is I can manage Derby I can go and

00:31:23

manage Chelsea and do it to a good level

00:31:25

as well because I've had successes as

00:31:27

well as when it hasn't gone so well I

00:31:28

mean that's the modern day manager so I

00:31:31

think I probably crammed in a lot of

00:31:32

work in four years and and working at a

00:31:34

high end level with players that will

00:31:36

test you and question you because

00:31:38

Champions League players question you so

00:31:40

it's just my path

00:31:43

the um I mean that's it so Champions

00:31:46

League players questioning you

00:31:48

you don't ever assume that happens I

00:31:50

mean I don't know a ton about what goes

00:31:51

on in the foot in the room but yeah no I

00:31:53

think what when I say that I think in um

00:31:55

the modern day player particularly I

00:31:58

think in previous series it probably

00:31:59

would have been more vocal and you know

00:32:01

but now the modern day player have a

00:32:04

good understanding of the game a lot of

00:32:05

them have been coached in academies very

00:32:06

very well to a high level uh when they

00:32:09

get to the top they also when you when

00:32:11

you you know are setting out tactics

00:32:13

they they'll have questions for you and

00:32:14

and you have to buy into that because

00:32:16

you know the reality is what you want is

00:32:18

them to understand what you want or

00:32:19

sometimes they say something like okay

00:32:21

we might change that you know or

00:32:23

whatever it might be and I think when

00:32:24

you get to the to the top level in

00:32:26

football you have to understand the best

00:32:28

day out now there's a they have to

00:32:30

understand you're the boss and you have

00:32:31

to man they're very clear but at the

00:32:34

same time there will be a lot of

00:32:35

suppliers that will challenge you would

00:32:36

you mean by that boss come to you what

00:32:37

what but what about if that happens you

00:32:39

know and you get a lot more of that and

00:32:41

you I remember reading Pep Guardiola

00:32:43

once said that even if you don't know

00:32:45

the answer pretend that you know the

00:32:46

answer to say that yeah and you know so

00:32:47

you there is a version of that because

00:32:49

you know when you're getting things

00:32:50

thrown at you sometimes it's like you

00:32:52

know football is an active game and I

00:32:54

think sometimes in the modern day we

00:32:55

look at you know on Monday Night

00:32:56

Football you see after the event you

00:32:59

know they should have done this or

00:33:00

people are imagining what um you know

00:33:03

Pep Guardiola or yoga club or fantastic

00:33:05

coaches are doing and it must be this

00:33:07

amazing complicated thing for sure

00:33:08

they're amazing coaches but it's an

00:33:10

active game so if you can give a good

00:33:12

message then the rest is down to the

00:33:14

players at the same time so you just

00:33:15

have to prep them as well as you can but

00:33:17

they will they will challenge it um

00:33:19

that that got me thinking about when I

00:33:21

sat with um Jamie carragher and he was

00:33:23

telling me about all the managers he had

00:33:24

had

00:33:25

um above him when he was playing at

00:33:26

Liverpool and then hearing from all the

00:33:28

United players Nanny and ever and Gary

00:33:30

and Rio about what Sir Alex was like and

00:33:33

and then reading through all of all of

00:33:35

the managers that you've worked under I

00:33:37

mean there's so many of them from Jose

00:33:38

to angelotti

00:33:40

um so many of them I mean there was one

00:33:42

period where I mean the managers were

00:33:44

being sacked every six months it feels

00:33:45

like at Chelsea yeah

00:33:46

um and the thing I garnered from all of

00:33:48

them is that there is actually not a

00:33:49

successful blueprint to being a

00:33:51

successful manager there's not like a

00:33:52

blueprint there's not a way to be a

00:33:54

successful manager some of them are

00:33:55

tactician some of them are man managers

00:33:57

yeah is that accurate it's very accurate

00:33:59

I I agree with that um and Chelsea is a

00:34:02

bit a bit of a unique example because in

00:34:05

my time there they change manager a lot

00:34:07

as you say and I don't think that's the

00:34:09

most productive way to to run a business

00:34:12

in an idle way in terms of football

00:34:14

because in an ideal way you kind of go

00:34:15

we trust in this manager this work with

00:34:16

it here's the idea we're going to go

00:34:18

with it and of course it's the

00:34:19

prerogative of the honest to change that

00:34:20

what we did have at the time was a

00:34:23

fantastic unit within the dressing room

00:34:25

of high Talent High personality that led

00:34:28

the dressing room so we had a great team

00:34:30

and a great Squad and when I say that we

00:34:33

had a spine of players of John Terry

00:34:34

myself Peter check Didier drummer Ashley

00:34:37

Cole I could go on and there were

00:34:39

personalities and sometimes would Clash

00:34:41

but we knew our place we knew we could

00:34:43

rely on him I knew that I would run for

00:34:45

him and he'd run for me and we also had

00:34:47

high Talent of a player that would video

00:34:48

drama would score in every final pretty

00:34:50

much so I think we kind of like bridge

00:34:52

that gap of changing managers

00:34:55

um and so I think when you come back to

00:34:56

the the question of you know great

00:34:57

managers I think sometimes it's um it's

00:35:00

a case of compromising with what you're

00:35:02

working with you have to get the people

00:35:04

skills right and that's the first thing

00:35:06

I learned as a manager for difference

00:35:07

and plan is that you have to deal with

00:35:08

people you've got to try and Inspire

00:35:10

every player within that group and

00:35:12

Inspire the collective so every player

00:35:14

will have a different motivation it

00:35:15

might be money for one it might be I

00:35:17

want to be the best striker in the world

00:35:19

it might be I want to be in front of him

00:35:20

because I don't like him whatever that

00:35:21

is you try and tap into and I think the

00:35:24

greatest of managers my opinion and I

00:35:26

played under as you say a lot and I'm

00:35:28

trying to be one is that they give you

00:35:32

something that you believe in that you

00:35:34

can strive for and you will buy into and

00:35:36

this and it's and sometimes it's a messy

00:35:38

process you know you watch Man City lift

00:35:40

that treble people just now and you

00:35:42

listed the Champions League there will

00:35:44

be so many things we don't know behind

00:35:45

the scenes this player is unhappy had to

00:35:47

do this all these things that come

00:35:50

together and give you that amazing

00:35:51

moment and I had that as Chelsea as a

00:35:52

player and so if you just say go and

00:35:55

tell me what a great managers and me to

00:35:56

go here's an answer for you in one

00:35:58

minute it's like impossible to say man

00:36:00

management that's what all the United

00:36:02

players said about Sir Alex it's the

00:36:04

only thing that they all are completely

00:36:05

agree on they would say he was the best

00:36:06

man manager and um an inconsistent

00:36:09

leader which is an interesting concept

00:36:10

and what I mean by inconsistent leader

00:36:12

is he would treat Gary in a different

00:36:14

way to Nanny to Evra and they all told

00:36:16

me their stories and Rio as well told me

00:36:18

about when

00:36:20

um Sir Alex brought that bottle of

00:36:21

whiskey to his ill grandfather's bedside

00:36:23

and Rio doesn't know how we knew the

00:36:25

favorite brand of whiskey and how we

00:36:27

knew his Grandad was Ill yeah Gary told

00:36:29

me he used to tap him on the shoulder

00:36:30

and say think about your fault your

00:36:32

grandfather's shrapnel which is still in

00:36:33

his shoulder when you go out there today

00:36:34

that kind of bespoke tailored approach

00:36:36

to leadership which is seems to be Sir

00:36:39

Alex Ferguson's um highest accent made

00:36:41

sure and I think that runs into the

00:36:43

modern day like we get very caught up in

00:36:45

in tactics and rightly so the game's

00:36:47

moved on from those days tactically but

00:36:49

those people and and you'll know

00:36:51

yourself you know inspiring people and

00:36:54

as you say to be bespoke and kind of

00:36:56

individualize it and look within the

00:36:58

group and have moments because you know

00:37:00

if you ask me about my career you go

00:37:01

like Frank would you remember out of

00:37:02

those 20 years like do you remember the

00:37:04

meeting where Jose you know played you a

00:37:06

bit higher up I wouldn't he said do you

00:37:08

remember the time that Jose said those

00:37:09

words to you that inspired you and it

00:37:11

could be like one sentence I go yeah I

00:37:12

remember that do you know I mean like

00:37:14

things that stick with me that I

00:37:15

remember that made me go I'm gonna I'm

00:37:17

gonna run for this man he's gonna make

00:37:18

me better you know and I had that and I

00:37:21

think so what you just said there about

00:37:22

Sir Alex Ferguson I think the great

00:37:23

managers to have you look at and they

00:37:25

have it in different styles Pep

00:37:26

Guardiola yoga and klopp everyone will

00:37:28

have a different style of that and

00:37:29

that's a huge part to their success I

00:37:31

think

00:37:32

what do you like as a manager

00:37:35

if you had to do like a self-assessment

00:37:36

I think you go you can ask somebody else

00:37:38

now I don't know

00:37:40

um I know I try and be uh close to the

00:37:43

players as I say my open door thing but

00:37:46

at the same time I think I I try and

00:37:48

find a balance I I think the important

00:37:49

thing for me was when I became a manager

00:37:52

was to not expect anybody any player to

00:37:55

see it how I saw it or train how I

00:37:58

trained or whatever you know for good or

00:37:59

for bad and you have to that's I think a

00:38:01

bit of a skill which you know sir Alex

00:38:03

probably had perfectly so I try and be

00:38:05

as close to the players I try and learn

00:38:06

all the time I'm a coach I want a coach

00:38:09

on the pitch I think my biggest pleasure

00:38:11

is coaching and improving players and

00:38:14

particularly young players and I've had

00:38:16

the you know the fortune to work with

00:38:18

some really good jump players at Derby I

00:38:19

had Mason Mountain Harry Wilson for Kayo

00:38:22

tomorrow and then at Chelsea obviously

00:38:24

Tommy Abraham extra ones and yeah and

00:38:26

Anthony Gordon Etc so I think they are

00:38:29

the real sponges that are a real

00:38:30

pleasure to work with and I love that

00:38:31

part of it being able to speak to them

00:38:32

and you do find and it's a reality and I

00:38:35

remember being an older player you're a

00:38:36

bit more cynical when you're a younger

00:38:37

player you're like they're like a blank

00:38:40

canvas and you can you know push them

00:38:42

and try and push them in that so I'm

00:38:44

probably quite intense with the younger

00:38:45

players

00:38:46

um I try and be as I say inclusive and

00:38:48

I'm always trying to learn

00:38:51

um and and try and just trying to be me

00:38:52

it's a hard answer that one I think

00:38:54

you'd have to ask you know maybe a

00:38:55

member of Staff or a player I picked the

00:38:57

right player because you probably get

00:38:58

different answers because when you work

00:39:00

with I worked at Chelsea recently with

00:39:02

30 players I picked you pick 11 for a

00:39:05

game and like eight subs and the subs

00:39:07

eight Outfield Subs the subs don't

00:39:09

really like you because they're not

00:39:10

starting let alone the other 10 you know

00:39:11

so it's a really hard balance with a

00:39:14

modern Squad to to get there but you

00:39:16

have to try and make it inclusive

00:39:17

because if you're going to get anywhere

00:39:18

you've got to go all together and that

00:39:20

was one of the problems for being

00:39:21

Chelsea this season 30 players is it's

00:39:23

not possible to manage that on the other

00:39:25

this isn't maybe this is even more

00:39:27

difficult question what are you trying

00:39:28

to work on then what are the the areas

00:39:29

of as a leader as a manager you're

00:39:31

trying to work on because I can think of

00:39:33

for myself I can think of a number of

00:39:34

areas where I go you know what that is

00:39:35

still somewhere where I have a recurring

00:39:38

when I reflect in hindsight I go I

00:39:40

need to get better here what is that for

00:39:43

you quite a few things I would say

00:39:45

because

00:39:46

um the other thinker thing comes in

00:39:48

again and I'm a bit of a perfectionist

00:39:49

so you know I always want to try and

00:39:51

improve

00:39:52

um

00:39:53

you know my tactical and and the

00:39:55

personal touch and those things but I

00:39:57

think when I came away from Chelsea I

00:39:59

realized I needed to delegate time

00:40:00

better that was something I was

00:40:02

certainly not great at I've got you you

00:40:03

have your staff for a reason they're

00:40:05

there to support you in a time they'll

00:40:07

be better than you at certain things so

00:40:08

give them it you know and give them that

00:40:10

you obviously oversee that thing and I

00:40:11

probably spent a lot of time

00:40:14

um trying to be across everything

00:40:16

whereas really I probably could have

00:40:18

come back from that and save my own

00:40:19

energy so I think I'll certainly try and

00:40:21

improve that side I did between Chelsea

00:40:22

and Everton for sure to try and save

00:40:24

that I can

00:40:26

um

00:40:27

uh be pretty overreactive sometimes if I

00:40:30

see things I don't like in terms of and

00:40:32

when I study it's always effort or

00:40:33

standards and I think I I am that's one

00:40:36

of the things I'm biggest on is that you

00:40:38

know if you're going to make a mistake

00:40:39

in a game I've got no problem with that

00:40:42

um if you are going to not run for your

00:40:43

teammate if you're not going to train

00:40:44

through the week with an idea that when

00:40:46

I train on Monday that's got a direct

00:40:47

relation to what Saturday is going to

00:40:49

look like if that feeling isn't there

00:40:51

then I probably can either get upset

00:40:53

with a player or maybe kind of distance

00:40:55

to player and I think when you're

00:40:57

working with a group you have to be

00:40:58

careful of that one because not every

00:40:59

player has your mentality so you have to

00:41:01

either try and bring them up to the

00:41:03

party

00:41:04

or if not then they're going to have to

00:41:06

not be there if you're going to have

00:41:07

success as far as I see it and that

00:41:09

sounds really harsh but it's one of

00:41:10

those things where you go if you can

00:41:12

work in a in a in a team and you're

00:41:14

going to take it to exactly where you

00:41:16

want it to be

00:41:17

out of that Squad of 25 if you've got

00:41:19

that kind of I remember manager would

00:41:21

say this you have you know that there's

00:41:23

your six or seven you know you're going

00:41:24

to get every day you're going to train

00:41:25

you're going to come in they're going to

00:41:27

be so active every day you're going to

00:41:28

have the middle group or somewhere in

00:41:29

the middle and you had the ones that

00:41:30

maybe I'm just coming to training you

00:41:33

know or you know I'm a bit sore today

00:41:35

you know that sounds simplistic to say

00:41:37

but you have to try and work if you want

00:41:39

to work in a full Direction and go okay

00:41:41

those six are with me right you try and

00:41:43

Garner them those are the ones that can

00:41:45

kind of pass the message those ones in

00:41:47

the middle okay can we keep pushing and

00:41:48

working between me and the staff to try

00:41:50

and improve them and then the ones that

00:41:52

are there come on can we help them can

00:41:53

they come with us if not you have to

00:41:55

speak to the club and that's where a

00:41:56

club has to be aligned to go okay if you

00:41:58

want to go in that direction and we're

00:41:59

with you okay we'll work that out and

00:42:01

that becomes a recruitment or players

00:42:03

leaving the club I mean that's you know

00:42:05

that's that's the reality that has to be

00:42:07

and that's the reality of business as

00:42:08

well um uh I've just finished writing

00:42:11

this book and it talks about these three

00:42:13

lines and basically says if everybody in

00:42:16

think about a person in your team and if

00:42:17

everybody in the team represented their

00:42:20

cultural values right which is what

00:42:22

you're talking about with your six

00:42:23

disciples there if everybody represented

00:42:25

the cultural values with the bar with

00:42:26

the overall Barbie raised or lowered and

00:42:28

you'll have some people who would

00:42:29

imagine if everyone was like them like a

00:42:31

Frank you know a Frank Lampard or a John

00:42:32

Terry how high that the cultural values

00:42:35

would be raised then you have other

00:42:36

people where if everyone was like them

00:42:37

you'd be relegated yeah and and what to

00:42:41

do with those three cohorts of bar

00:42:43

raises maintainers and barlowers and

00:42:45

that's kind of what I that's a good way

00:42:47

of putting it I mean I and I think the

00:42:50

I think the bar raises can take some

00:42:52

time to raise the bar

00:42:54

but the balras can get you very quickly

00:42:57

yeah yeah that's kind of my experience

00:42:58

because that kind of when that kind of

00:43:00

that consistency or whatever it is you

00:43:02

know like this oh why are we doing this

00:43:03

train why do we have to do or whatever

00:43:05

that kind of negativity which can slip

00:43:07

in can be really contagious and in a

00:43:09

winning Sport and as much as we're

00:43:10

talking here about great managers

00:43:12

winning is is everything you know and

00:43:14

it's that's obviously relative to if

00:43:15

you're a man city or in Everton like

00:43:17

Everton will win kind of 35 40 of games

00:43:19

at Best at the moment and you know that

00:43:22

so you know that they're going to be 65

00:43:24

or so percent of weeks whereas not that

00:43:26

great the balras can go and they lower

00:43:29

it quickly whereas you know if you can

00:43:31

get the razors to take control

00:43:33

um then they that then I think generally

00:43:35

you can kind of get there so it's a

00:43:36

really important thing that's probably

00:43:37

one of the interesting things that as I

00:43:40

say that the transition from player to

00:43:42

manager trying to get that because if

00:43:43

you whether you were one of the bar

00:43:45

raisers or you're in the middle group or

00:43:46

the Law Group when you become a manager

00:43:47

it doesn't matter what you were you've

00:43:49

got to kind of get there get the scripts

00:43:50

of what it is and kind of just push

00:43:53

um so that that's something

00:43:54

I'm trying to improve on everything all

00:43:56

the time and coming away sometimes give

00:43:58

you nice time to to have perspective and

00:44:01

just kind of go I'm going to put it in

00:44:02

line a little bit and it looks a bit

00:44:03

different to what I thought before that

00:44:05

experience in yeah this is I mean I

00:44:07

guess this is why some of the the

00:44:09

greatest managers of all time they hold

00:44:10

on to their Gary Neville's and their you

00:44:14

know their disciples yeah and I've

00:44:15

spoken to Gary about this Gary said to

00:44:17

me in fact when we're filming

00:44:18

Dragonstone recently he said for those

00:44:19

last two years Sir Alex kept me there

00:44:20

because of the my impact on the dressing

00:44:22

room yeah not my impact on the pitch but

00:44:23

on the dressing room I could keep keep

00:44:25

the standard High

00:44:27

um in the modern world I was reading the

00:44:29

stats managers are getting fired quicker

00:44:31

than ever sure and it almost it must be

00:44:33

so difficult to establish Authority when

00:44:35

the play is aware

00:44:37

um that the manager is going to be the

00:44:38

one to be taken out if things don't go

00:44:40

well in business it's not like that

00:44:42

right as a CEO because I own the company

00:44:45

and I am the manager yeah so if there's

00:44:49

if there's Behavior underneath me that's

00:44:50

toxic and contagious I can act yeah the

00:44:53

center of authorities with me yeah

00:44:55

whereas it seems like in a club the

00:44:56

center of authority is really like the

00:44:58

chairman the owner yeah

00:45:00

um sometimes the manager manages manages

00:45:02

to get there but in the modern world we

00:45:03

don't let managers last long enough to

00:45:04

build that Authority no and that's the

00:45:06

tough world that it is and I think you

00:45:08

know you probably have to earn the right

00:45:10

as a manager to get to a club maybe when

00:45:12

you look at the perfect models right at

00:45:14

the top you know and Manchester City is

00:45:15

a good one to talk about now I work with

00:45:17

the city group I have one year playing

00:45:18

there and I could see when I was there

00:45:20

they hadn't arrived at that point but I

00:45:22

could see with the stability from above

00:45:24

and how it run and the vision it was

00:45:25

like we're gonna get they were going to

00:45:27

get somewhere because they had a great

00:45:28

structure and it wasn't like it was

00:45:30

going to get pulled and pushed and

00:45:32

pulled for you know a small period of

00:45:34

time so we're going to get there and

00:45:35

then they hired pep you know they had

00:45:36

not difficult first year but the first

00:45:38

year was kind of him finding his way I

00:45:39

need this I need this and then he's

00:45:41

fantastic coach and they have great

00:45:42

players but if you don't have that

00:45:44

aligned thing where as you said the most

00:45:46

important person at the club in the

00:45:48

modern day in my opinion is the owner

00:45:49

and it is a structure at the top because

00:45:51

they really they set the time maybe it's

00:45:53

financially maybe it's with the sporting

00:45:55

directors and recruitment because you'll

00:45:57

be as good as the players you recruit a

00:46:00

great manager again I don't want to sit

00:46:01

here and drop names that said to me was

00:46:03

when we finished it um my first thing

00:46:05

that Everton we just stayed up skin of

00:46:07

our teeth and he was like randomly to

00:46:08

say congratulations he went Frank don't

00:46:10

rest 80 of your work for next season

00:46:12

will be done in the next month so it was

00:46:14

recruitment so like 20 will be what you

00:46:17

do next year and now the 80 is like

00:46:19

bringing the right players so I think

00:46:21

you know like that that alignment as I

00:46:23

keep saying there is something that you

00:46:25

know if you can get

00:46:27

um and and I know I know they're great

00:46:28

owners and they're great supporting

00:46:30

directors and Recruitment and the

00:46:31

manager and the manager is so you know

00:46:33

critical to it but when you look at last

00:46:35

season 13 managers left their Club I

00:46:37

think it's 13 out of 20 clubs and you're

00:46:40

talking about you know Antonio Conte and

00:46:43

you're talking about Thomas you know

00:46:44

manages at huge successes it shows you

00:46:47

that the landscape's changed to the

00:46:49

point where the manager will be culpable

00:46:50

and I think you have to come you have to

00:46:51

be at peace with that but you have to

00:46:53

try and get to the point very quickly

00:46:55

where you have success and that's tough

00:46:56

because winning is and the modern world

00:46:59

of social media and reaction is like get

00:47:02

him out you know get the next one in you

00:47:04

know sometimes maybe they're right maybe

00:47:05

the manager is culpable but other times

00:47:07

there are there are many things and to

00:47:09

come back to your original point about

00:47:10

players and those stallwalls and the

00:47:12

Gary Neville's and the James Milner at

00:47:14

Liverpool in the last whatever years you

00:47:16

know people on the outside I think it's

00:47:18

very easy to look at the superstars and

00:47:20

most sellers in there I I can guarantee

00:47:22

you and I know this firsthand from

00:47:23

speaking to people people like James

00:47:25

Milner and Jordan Henderson

00:47:27

have absolutely set the tone of that

00:47:29

club for the last whatever years during

00:47:31

great success and if you don't have that

00:47:34

kind of those drivers within that top

00:47:36

six all right I think it's very hard to

00:47:39

sustain its success or get success and

00:47:41

again back to my Chelsea days we had

00:47:42

that naturally and we were actually

00:47:44

quite diverse so it was like John Terry

00:47:47

was like the real Captain like heart on

00:47:49

his sleeve you could see it every day I

00:47:50

was probably like more quiet but like a

00:47:52

trainer and standards and myself and

00:47:54

trying to hope that that would bring

00:47:55

people with us Didier was this sort of

00:47:58

charismatic from the Ivory Coast and

00:48:00

kind of brought in you know that section

00:48:01

of the dressing room and he took a pair

00:48:03

of checks about five languages Ashley

00:48:05

Carl was such a nice lad and you know

00:48:08

best left back the country's probably

00:48:09

ever seen so we had this amazing group

00:48:11

and like if others aren't going to

00:48:13

follow that then very quickly it was

00:48:14

like you're not going to make it

00:48:16

regardless of the manager change it's

00:48:18

like you want you won't survive the

00:48:19

dressing room and that's kind of how it

00:48:21

was it reminded me of a quote that I've

00:48:23

said on this podcast before which is

00:48:24

when the culture is strong the new

00:48:25

people become the culture and when the

00:48:26

coaches week the culture becomes the new

00:48:28

people right because when you have those

00:48:30

that cord of disciples someone coming in

00:48:32

they'll stand out so much yeah if they

00:48:34

don't fit in with you Didier Frank Etc

00:48:36

that they'll instantly be expelled yeah

00:48:38

but when the culture is weak someone

00:48:40

will come in and they'll actually

00:48:40

influence yeah the Dynamics and that's

00:48:42

when you're really from my experience in

00:48:44

business is when you're really really

00:48:45

screwed no that's interesting because I

00:48:47

think in football as well because it's

00:48:49

so topical it's just so much

00:48:50

conversation around it that you know I

00:48:52

managed to Chelsea for seven weeks I

00:48:54

think I did and I spoke a lot about

00:48:56

standards and I was a bit I'm not saying

00:48:58

standards to him I saw you say in every

00:48:59

post match yeah I know it wasn't like

00:49:02

not trying to be clever and go I'm just

00:49:04

gonna this is my line now standards but

00:49:05

it was like it was very evident to me

00:49:07

when I walked in um because you know

00:49:10

having worked at Chelsea as a coach

00:49:12

before and as a player I I do know the

00:49:14

standards I do know that and this is not

00:49:17

a direct criticism of the players either

00:49:18

because when I look at the player

00:49:20

situations where they were and I

00:49:21

understood how it'd been a long year I

00:49:23

walked in on with 10 games to go they've

00:49:25

been there for the whole season and a

00:49:27

lot of players were not playing they

00:49:28

were probably going to leave which we're

00:49:30

seeing now whether they were going to

00:49:31

leave with a club wanted some leave or

00:49:33

they or they hadn't been playing with

00:49:34

the previous managers and I could see in

00:49:37

training that it wasn't the level wasn't

00:49:38

enough it wasn't enough to go and get a

00:49:40

result you know whoever you might want

00:49:43

to say a Brentford at home or at let

00:49:45

alone Real Madrid it wasn't enough and I

00:49:47

can say this now because I said this to

00:49:48

the players and again it's not an

00:49:50

individual criticism that applies

00:49:51

because I also when you're trying to say

00:49:53

you want to be a manager you have to

00:49:54

have a personal understanding of like

00:49:56

human nature if I'm a player that's not

00:49:58

been planned for the last seven months

00:50:00

and I think I'm leaving in four weeks

00:50:01

time I'm probably going to struggle to

00:50:03

motivate that player you know I'm not

00:50:05

I've Got Magic one to motivate that

00:50:07

player so I think it was that probably

00:50:09

the my biggest learning out of Chelsea

00:50:10

was when you talk about standards and

00:50:12

culture I think people get it talks

00:50:14

about standards you know what he talks

00:50:15

about his culture and I you know maybe I

00:50:18

had to catch myself on and not cite

00:50:19

every interview but at the same time it

00:50:21

was if you don't have a building block

00:50:22

of Standards then that winning culture

00:50:24

that everyone goes what's winning

00:50:25

culture you go well then me up I'll try

00:50:27

and explain to you but it has to start

00:50:28

with a basic standard and which for me

00:50:30

is always like trained to a level where

00:50:32

you're going to push your teammate he's

00:50:34

going to push you and then we're going

00:50:35

to be as competitive as it can be we

00:50:37

don't have to win not every team can win

00:50:38

you know this Manchester City pretty

00:50:40

much win the league every year at the

00:50:41

minute so what's success for everybody

00:50:42

else for Brighton it's coming six or

00:50:44

whatever for Newcastle it's wow

00:50:46

Champions League that's huge success so

00:50:48

everyone has a version but my guess is

00:50:50

those teams that have over performed

00:50:52

outperformed they've got something there

00:50:54

which is a basic standard that they just

00:50:56

build on and you know to be fair to

00:50:58

Chelsea they're in a position now where

00:51:00

that's needs to be worked on again it's

00:51:02

a transitional time

00:51:04

that brings me to the quote you said

00:51:05

after your Newcastle game which was the

00:51:07

standards collectively have dropped I

00:51:08

can be honest now um because it's your

00:51:10

last game I might not see them for some

00:51:11

time anymore but low standards are a

00:51:14

symptom of something further Upstream

00:51:16

that's happened and we saw this at

00:51:18

Manchester United I'm a big man united

00:51:19

fan I've seen a a decade five years of

00:51:22

just like chaos where we've got these

00:51:24

amazing players but one plus one equals

00:51:27

1.5 we call it dis economies of scale

00:51:30

yeah in great culture one plus one

00:51:31

equals three you know where you can make

00:51:33

great average players together play yeah

00:51:35

amazing the football of their lives the

00:51:38

furthest Upstream thing where did the

00:51:39

standard start to slip what is the thing

00:51:41

that happens in a club like Chelsea in

00:51:42

your experience when you went back there

00:51:44

that had caused that dropping of

00:51:47

Standards which we now saw on the pitch

00:51:49

with your sort of 10 games there well I

00:51:51

think um

00:51:52

when I was tongue-in-cheek by the way

00:51:54

when I said I'm not going to see them

00:51:55

again because it was a bit like as I

00:51:57

said I wouldn't say I've hadn't said it

00:51:58

to him and I've said it a few times but

00:52:00

the position of it was that and I think

00:52:03

the biggest thing about the standards

00:52:04

thing was the the size of the squad it

00:52:07

was the the motivation of players that

00:52:11

um you're gonna not play or you're out

00:52:13

of the Champions League squad or these

00:52:15

things like it's like asking you know

00:52:17

one of you you I don't know you maybe

00:52:19

love doing this this is like one of your

00:52:21

great mom you know I want to sit and you

00:52:22

want to speak to all these fantastic

00:52:23

people that you speak to so thanks for

00:52:25

your prep Steven now Peter Jones is

00:52:27

going to do it

00:52:29

cheers how long are you going to go with

00:52:31

that yeah so and I think in football

00:52:33

that's is that's a challenge with 20 or

00:52:35

so players which is the modern Squad but

00:52:37

with with Chelsea it's got very big to

00:52:39

the point where it's just how I felt

00:52:40

where I can say you know I'm not

00:52:43

criticizing that player for a dropping

00:52:45

standards I want to try and get

00:52:46

something out of him because I had a

00:52:47

short period I want to try and get

00:52:48

something out of him so I'll try but

00:52:49

then when you actually look at it you

00:52:51

kind of go yeah but he's had this for a

00:52:53

long time where he's not playing so he's

00:52:54

not now being competitive with that

00:52:56

player who is playing so that plays

00:52:58

pretty comfortable too because he's not

00:52:59

pushing him so you kind of get this

00:53:01

thing where you're like you know we

00:53:02

probably took it for granted in some of

00:53:05

my better days at Chelsea when we were

00:53:06

successful of like this kind of thing

00:53:08

that works you know it wasn't even a

00:53:10

thing you said you know you didn't have

00:53:11

to sort of have a meeting every day and

00:53:13

go you know one of those standards

00:53:14

culture you know a nice pie chart and

00:53:15

that's what that is it was almost like

00:53:17

this is what we do and at the minute

00:53:19

sometimes for whatever reason there's a

00:53:21

transition of maybe new ownership you

00:53:23

know not everything was perfect before

00:53:24

the new ownership I was there before no

00:53:25

ownership as well like to find

00:53:27

consistency as Chelsea would really want

00:53:29

of winning Premier League titles and

00:53:31

challenging has been a good few years

00:53:32

now so I think that getting the squad

00:53:35

right

00:53:36

um being able probably a fresh voice as

00:53:38

a manager coming in now who's obviously

00:53:40

a fantastic manager with a great record

00:53:41

to come in and go no this is the way and

00:53:44

now the squad looks compact you're going

00:53:46

to compete with each other and try and

00:53:48

create a great environment everyone is a

00:53:49

great environment to have success you

00:53:51

know you cannot have a success with that

00:53:53

team spirit and togetherness so when I

00:53:55

got there I could just see that that the

00:53:57

the spirit and the togetherness was not

00:53:59

then it was nothing bad you know like it

00:54:00

was not bad to go for the week I could

00:54:02

just see like you have to train Elite to

00:54:04

be elite you have to and that's not you

00:54:07

know the Monday players play every few

00:54:08

days sometimes when I say that it's not

00:54:10

like show me how many Sprints you can do

00:54:11

every day it's like okay if we're doing

00:54:13

prep tomorrow give me that intensity of

00:54:15

of thought about what what this is for

00:54:17

you and I mean sit in your face but in

00:54:19

the Chelsea when you did that you had to

00:54:21

go right if I want to really focus on

00:54:22

the 10 or 11 for tomorrow that means

00:54:25

I've got to have like 18 players over

00:54:27

there and you kind of saw the body

00:54:29

language as they walked off some of them

00:54:30

that they were like again because

00:54:32

they've been having it all season some

00:54:33

of them so I on a human level I

00:54:35

completely understood and in the end it

00:54:37

was like I came back here because

00:54:39

obviously this was an opportunity to

00:54:41

come to my club you know Chelsea a Club

00:54:43

close to my heart but as soon as I got

00:54:45

in I realized that probably I thought

00:54:47

you know what 30 players but I can

00:54:49

motivate in six seven weeks because it's

00:54:50

not like a long term thing I can come in

00:54:52

and be fresh

00:54:53

um but in terms of when I came in I

00:54:55

noticed very quickly that some players

00:54:58

are probably thinking about the season's

00:54:59

going to Peter out and what's the future

00:55:01

going to look like and that was a a

00:55:03

difficult situation it never crossed my

00:55:06

mind that's the size of the squad has

00:55:08

such a big impact but it makes perfect

00:55:10

sense because you need that sort of

00:55:11

healthy competition and I believe your

00:55:14

first team was was it 32 players

00:55:16

yeah which is more than you're allowed

00:55:18

to register for the Premier League or

00:55:19

Champions League so you had this kind of

00:55:21

surplus of a lot of players a few a few

00:55:23

are always injured probably you know so

00:55:25

that comes down a bit but it's a surplus

00:55:26

and it's a surplus of

00:55:29

um yeah the the the makeup of the squad

00:55:32

is International Players generally

00:55:34

because if there were a couple of young

00:55:35

players but when you try and build a

00:55:36

squad it'll be like this is you know

00:55:38

this is my core kind of 15 or 16 and

00:55:40

then you go and maybe these these two

00:55:42

experienced players that might not need

00:55:43

to play really and then we've got these

00:55:44

kids that are waiting and they're like

00:55:45

just happy to be there they want to play

00:55:47

they're going to be training and if you

00:55:49

give them an opportunity they'll be like

00:55:50

but when you have like international

00:55:51

players in a big number then of course

00:55:54

you know you're telling Internationals

00:55:56

you've got to stay at home it's not it's

00:55:58

not easy and you know to have the

00:56:00

conversation every Friday with them and

00:56:02

get them lined up coming in is also not

00:56:04

easy for your own energy do you know

00:56:05

what I mean so I that's not easy I don't

00:56:07

care how what kind of uh a manager you

00:56:11

are like it's like next you're not

00:56:12

playing okay next you're not playing you

00:56:15

know like whatever however you try and

00:56:16

box that up to a player eventually

00:56:18

they'll probably have I know I'm not

00:56:20

playing you know like stop telling me

00:56:21

this do you know what I mean so I

00:56:23

think you know that that was an

00:56:24

interesting learning curve for me like

00:56:26

an interim job is is what it is

00:56:28

um and I kept getting asked you know

00:56:30

people it was kind of frustrating but at

00:56:31

times like are you finding this so hard

00:56:33

and you find this hard I was like you

00:56:34

know what I'm back home in the club that

00:56:36

I love you know a fantastic training

00:56:37

around I'm doing everything I can in

00:56:39

this job to try and improve it but there

00:56:41

were I knew behind the scenes there are

00:56:42

a lot of things you know myself and my

00:56:44

staff we want to improve but we want to

00:56:46

coach we want to sort of when you when

00:56:47

you lack those Basics and as I say I I

00:56:50

think there's an understanding the club

00:56:52

that it has to change now I think it has

00:56:54

to it has to change then if you like

00:56:57

those Basics then it it's really hard to

00:56:59

get where you want to get to what how

00:57:01

does that happen though so there's these

00:57:03

32 players and then Chelsea spends more

00:57:05

money than it I think anyone's ever

00:57:06

spent in a window in that sort of

00:57:08

January window you bring in all of these

00:57:10

players on these long contracts which

00:57:12

I've never heard before I think it was

00:57:13

like eight year contracts and they're

00:57:15

all like class amazing individual

00:57:18

players

00:57:19

um is that a is that because the the new

00:57:23

owner doesn't understand those dynamics

00:57:26

of football because that's what it

00:57:27

seemed like for me I thought either this

00:57:29

is a genius or an idiot yeah you know I

00:57:32

don't want to criticize anyone like on a

00:57:34

personal level but as a fan looking and

00:57:35

I go signing these players on eight year

00:57:37

contracts they're great players spending

00:57:38

all this money the impact on culture

00:57:40

when you just throw stars in at such

00:57:43

quantity yeah it looked it looked like

00:57:46

an experience and um naivety I think

00:57:49

that's

00:57:50

um

00:57:51

that's understood now in terms of what

00:57:53

it's meant with those 30 players and I

00:57:55

think you've seen that now in that

00:57:56

already I think I'm six seven eight

00:57:58

players have left

00:57:59

so I think but the intentions are

00:58:01

certainly good I know that because I

00:58:03

work the owners gave me an opportunity

00:58:04

to go in there and I had a good

00:58:05

relationship with them their intentions

00:58:07

to do a good job at Chelsea are amazing

00:58:09

they want to take the club and be the

00:58:11

best you know they have great intentions

00:58:12

so now I think those younger players now

00:58:16

with

00:58:17

um a new voice a new manager the squad

00:58:20

come inside I think they'll have a

00:58:21

greater chance to show what they've got

00:58:22

anyway and they're talented players and

00:58:25

you know I remember being in Chelsea

00:58:26

when Eden Hazard arrived and pre-season

00:58:28

was like is this kid maybe a bit lazy

00:58:30

looking you know it was a bit kind of

00:58:32

strolling around this kid definitely and

00:58:33

then that first season it was like I

00:58:35

know it's really good and then on the

00:58:37

second and Thursdays like now this kid's

00:58:38

one of the best players the Premier

00:58:39

League's seen or whatever see everyone

00:58:41

video drug but like you can go through

00:58:42

all these players who are who are like

00:58:44

absolute Legends now if you're asking

00:58:46

you know those five six seven players to

00:58:48

come in and hit the ground running in a

00:58:51

difficult moment for the club it's

00:58:52

understandable so I think as a Chelsea

00:58:54

fan you know you look at it and kind of

00:58:56

go right okay that that is positive

00:58:58

there's Talent there okay it needs to be

00:59:00

worked with now I'm sure that you can

00:59:01

see the squads getting trimmed and as I

00:59:04

can say you know hand on heart the

00:59:05

intentions of the owners is absolutely

00:59:07

no they've spent that money because they

00:59:08

want to do well now if they're going to

00:59:10

address the situation a bit that's their

00:59:12

strategy going forward but I do think

00:59:14

you know you'll see players like Enzo

00:59:16

Fernandez Madrid and these players

00:59:18

madoiki young players they're going to

00:59:20

develop and they're going to be big

00:59:21

players for the club they you have to

00:59:23

get the structure writing the strategy

00:59:24

right going forward what what's a my

00:59:27

thing is that adding like I know six or

00:59:29

seven of these players all at once

00:59:32

pretty much halfway through the season

00:59:34

um in a squad that's already struggling

00:59:36

to figure out who it is under Graham

00:59:39

Potter

00:59:40

um it begs the question like who's doing

00:59:42

the recruitment here because at other

00:59:44

clubs it's a much more Strate it seems

00:59:46

like a much more strategic and

00:59:48

intentional and football driven approach

00:59:51

to recruitment whereas from what I saw

00:59:52

at Chelsea and I have actually spoken to

00:59:54

some people at Chelsea who are involved

00:59:56

in recruitment it seemed like chaos yeah

00:59:59

I mean I wasn't there for that period

01:00:01

right so that was in I got there in

01:00:03

April and like so January was the last

01:00:05

window and obviously they spent last

01:00:06

summer but I think the the change of

01:00:10

ownership and then obviously there's

01:00:12

some people moved on who were in the

01:00:14

hierarchy of the club and so they was

01:00:15

changing so there was a big change of

01:00:17

structure so I think you have to give

01:00:19

um some time and some leeway for the

01:00:22

process and they're certainly now are

01:00:24

sporting directors recruitment people in

01:00:27

there having work with them who are very

01:00:29

talented very hungry you know good to go

01:00:32

and I think now it will be

01:00:35

um up to them to take the club forward

01:00:37

they haven't signed bad players I think

01:00:38

this maybe the the

01:00:40

strategy of bringing them all in at that

01:00:42

time you know looks a bit excitable at

01:00:43

the minute as in terms of there's a lot

01:00:45

of players to success but I think

01:00:46

probably there's a long game and I think

01:00:47

there's a plan and I think probably most

01:00:50

huge clubs like Chelsea have had a

01:00:53

version of what this period is

01:00:54

Manchester United you mentioned there

01:00:55

Arsenal for quite a long time Liverpool

01:00:58

for periods you know so I think um we

01:01:00

have to give different I think to to

01:01:02

over judge now when I think they have

01:01:04

signed some good players would be to to

01:01:06

be over critical I think at the moment I

01:01:08

think that the proof will be now how

01:01:09

these players develop once now it feels

01:01:12

a bit more settled going forward I think

01:01:14

that's I think that's all true I think

01:01:15

um what's the optimal way for player

01:01:18

recruitment to happen in your opinion

01:01:19

because I've you often hear about these

01:01:22

stories of where you know I know will

01:01:23

take charge of a club and then they'll

01:01:25

just decide who they want which is

01:01:26

probably what I'd be like if I was an

01:01:27

owner I think I would like football

01:01:29

manager I think I just buy who I who I

01:01:31

want to buy who I think looks good um

01:01:33

Manchester United suffered with that it

01:01:35

felt like our decisions were commercial

01:01:36

decisions as opposed to footballing

01:01:37

decisions then when Eric 10 hugs come in

01:01:39

it feels a bit more like kids football

01:01:41

decisions and what in your opinion and

01:01:43

then I did speak to some people at

01:01:45

Chelsea because I actually went to I was

01:01:47

invited to uh sit with Richard Arnold in

01:01:49

a couple of the Manchester United

01:01:51

Executives and when we played Chelsea at

01:01:53

Old Trafford I was in the director's box

01:01:55

okay so I sat with the like sport the

01:01:56

new sporting director at Chelsea yeah um

01:01:59

and he said there's now two sporting

01:02:00

directors I believe yeah

01:02:02

um so it's interesting to talk to them

01:02:04

um but what is the about the optimal way

01:02:06

for recruitment to happen in your

01:02:07

opinion well I think

01:02:09

um with a with a you have to understand

01:02:11

what you want the the philosophy and the

01:02:15

identity of the club to be so for

01:02:18

instance I think Manchester City are

01:02:19

quite firm in the idea when they the pep

01:02:22

guardios come in and they're sporting

01:02:24

directors have worked at Barcelona

01:02:25

previously with him that this is how we

01:02:27

want to play this is a manager that's

01:02:28

going to deliver that style so here's

01:02:30

how we recruit for that style Chelsea

01:02:32

has always been a bit different for me

01:02:33

the the beautiful game the ticket

01:02:36

package is called a man city has not

01:02:38

been Chelsea style it's been more of a

01:02:39

winning machine and different kind of

01:02:41

way you know and in my day was more of a

01:02:43

powerful team that was probably were

01:02:45

good on the eye but we were not that

01:02:46

kind of you know past past we were like

01:02:48

powerful and effective so I think you

01:02:51

have to understand what you want to be

01:02:52

and once you get to that point you

01:02:53

probably the first thing is to recruit a

01:02:55

coach that you know Works within that

01:02:57

and then you know that's the kind of

01:02:59

Coach you want because this is one obey

01:03:00

those conversations or an interview

01:03:01

process and then once you get to that

01:03:04

point I think the recruitment has to be

01:03:05

joined up depending on how active the

01:03:08

owner wants to be and I I respect and

01:03:10

appreciate active owners as their clubs

01:03:13

their prerogative and then the sporting

01:03:15

directors and the manager and then

01:03:18

obviously recruitment which brings all

01:03:19

the data analysis into the picture and

01:03:22

it has to be joined up and it has you

01:03:24

have to be all very confident by the

01:03:25

time you want to bring in a player that

01:03:26

you're going yeah this is the play we

01:03:27

want to bring in they're always one or

01:03:28

two or three options because you may not

01:03:30

get Target number one but I think you

01:03:32

have to be able to recruit for the style

01:03:34

that you want to be so the coach really

01:03:36

has to have a big buy into that as well

01:03:37

but you as a coach in the Monday you

01:03:39

understand and the process I appreciate

01:03:42

being aligned and having other people

01:03:44

not just responsible for who you're

01:03:45

bringing in but also like giving me

01:03:47

something that I don't know I'm not

01:03:48

there siphon through the data you know

01:03:51

they have to show you that data and

01:03:52

here's the reasons why the videos people

01:03:54

have watched them and also the

01:03:56

personality of the player because not to

01:03:59

say you're going to sign you know 10

01:04:01

James milners because their character's

01:04:03

amazing and they're professionalism but

01:04:05

you need to know they're going to come

01:04:06

in and address room who's going to

01:04:07

they're going to be good for the

01:04:08

dressing room and they're going to help

01:04:09

in terms of how you drive forward in

01:04:11

terms of their personality

01:04:13

one of the one of the key questions I

01:04:14

want to answer and I wanted to ask you

01:04:16

today is like how would you have what

01:04:18

would have had to happen to avoid the

01:04:20

situation where you had that

01:04:22

unhealthy culture at Chelsea behind the

01:04:25

scenes in those when you came back in as

01:04:26

the interim what would have what could

01:04:28

you have done to avoid that happening

01:04:30

say you're in the you know if you were

01:04:32

if you could in hindsight have a wand

01:04:34

and correct things that were done I get

01:04:37

the first point which was about smaller

01:04:38

Squad size

01:04:40

um what else what else avoids that from

01:04:43

my from my first day in there you're

01:04:45

you're a um a genie and you can know

01:04:48

what you know about the what you

01:04:50

inherited there what would have had to

01:04:51

be done previously to avoid you

01:04:53

inheriting that

01:04:55

the smallest Squad is the first thing

01:04:56

that I got yeah smaller Squad I mean

01:04:58

some things are just a bit

01:05:01

you know like there there are phases you

01:05:03

know and I think Chelsea

01:05:06

um they won the Champions League I left

01:05:08

they won the Champions League like three

01:05:09

or four months after I left and at that

01:05:13

point you kind of go okay where's the

01:05:14

next move and you kind of go at how was

01:05:16

recruitment then how what things worked

01:05:18

then and maybe some players left during

01:05:21

that period maybe in terms of

01:05:22

recruitment you wanted to bring in maybe

01:05:24

some people be like the the future in

01:05:27

terms of that I when I was at Chelsea

01:05:29

before I wanted to bring in Declan rice

01:05:30

I was like this this kid's gonna be the

01:05:32

the captain of Chelsea for the next you

01:05:34

know 10 years it didn't happen but

01:05:36

anyway but I think in terms of those

01:05:38

things it's hard for me to sit here and

01:05:39

kind of dissect you know other people's

01:05:42

work in that period in between you know

01:05:43

like I would have maybe had an idea it

01:05:45

wasn't my idea because I'd already left

01:05:47

the club so maybe like when I came in it

01:05:49

was it's not it's really hard for me to

01:05:51

kind of dissect all those moves you know

01:05:53

I came into what I came into so you know

01:05:56

that's I think I'd probably be a little

01:05:57

bit casual for me to kind of go they

01:05:59

should have done this you know like yeah

01:06:00

it's a hindsightly one that's yeah it's

01:06:02

kind of me wondering just because I've

01:06:04

been a man united fan and I've seen that

01:06:05

happen and I saw obviously Sir Alex

01:06:07

Ferguson leave and then we just had

01:06:09

these 10 years of what I describe as

01:06:10

like confused chaos and I'm trying to

01:06:12

figure out almost like how an innocer

01:06:14

Alex Ferguson situation how he we could

01:06:16

have avoided that if at all possible

01:06:18

yeah I mean it's such a big figure

01:06:20

um that's difficult isn't it I don't

01:06:22

know enough about Manchester United but

01:06:23

I do I can understand why after Sir Alex

01:06:26

leaving and also pivotal players will

01:06:29

probably come into the end of their time

01:06:31

during the same time as him leaving to

01:06:34

replace that and keep moving forward I

01:06:35

mean you can there might have been

01:06:36

mistakes and it's not my thing but I can

01:06:39

understand why it feels like a long

01:06:40

period for a club the size of Manchester

01:06:42

United but it just shows you that I

01:06:43

think that how Cutthroat and fast moving

01:06:45

this premier league is because if you

01:06:47

come off the gas guess in terms of

01:06:49

recruitment or whatever or you have a

01:06:51

bad time coming back up there people

01:06:53

think oh yeah you know you're Chelsea

01:06:54

you've been a Champions League again

01:06:55

next year or Arsenal you'll be there

01:06:57

like I still had to work a long time to

01:07:00

come back and challenge for The League

01:07:01

last year with a lot of work and you

01:07:04

know people were criticizing in the

01:07:06

beginning and now you know they've

01:07:08

worked together and stuck together and

01:07:09

recruited really well and now they're

01:07:11

ready to go so I mean it's not I don't

01:07:13

think we should expect even you being a

01:07:14

Manchester United fan or me having a

01:07:16

Chelsea head on that next year it's

01:07:17

going to be great like it's everyone

01:07:18

else is moving forward too you know

01:07:21

when you get that call the interim Court

01:07:25

you've just left Everton yeah um you're

01:07:28

out of work

01:07:30

um grandpot has been released from his

01:07:32

responsibilities

01:07:35

what's going through your head when they

01:07:37

say we want you to come back in and take

01:07:39

an into a managing role

01:07:41

if I was a flyer on the wall and when

01:07:43

that phone call happens

01:07:45

um you nearly were yeah

01:07:49

so I know yeah I mean I wasn't going to

01:07:51

tell the story but no I could tell it

01:07:54

for you I was coming to meet you and I

01:07:55

rang you to say sorry I'm gonna become

01:07:57

Chelsea manager that that meeting they

01:07:59

you know people arrived at my house that

01:08:00

afternoon so well just because you

01:08:02

didn't tell me that exactly you said I

01:08:04

can't come and I Can't Tell You Why then

01:08:06

I told you after that yeah you told me

01:08:08

okay but I'm not an idiot yeah all right

01:08:10

okay I kind of inferred maybe okay so

01:08:12

anyway I mean no I think probably the

01:08:15

the it's normal that I consider

01:08:17

everything and you know I probably

01:08:19

considered it as in

01:08:21

firstly it's a club very close to my

01:08:23

heart as I said before

01:08:24

a challenge of working and it was like

01:08:27

we had two games against Real Madrid and

01:08:29

we had the season to pan out we had a

01:08:31

difficult running so I was fully aware

01:08:32

of that

01:08:33

um and I know maybe like you know I do

01:08:36

love a challenge if that challenge had

01:08:38

been probably any other club other than

01:08:40

Chelsea I probably would have said no I

01:08:41

was very happy to be at home as such in

01:08:43

that period I wasn't fighting to get a

01:08:44

job at that period

01:08:46

um so it was probably a bit of head and

01:08:49

heart

01:08:50

um I'm not sure what probably heart

01:08:52

probably was a bit more substantial in

01:08:54

this one than the head because I suppose

01:08:56

if you look back again we're in that

01:08:58

hindsight position but you know what

01:09:00

were my neck what will my positive

01:09:01

outcomes what are my negative ones the

01:09:03

minute we didn't get through against

01:09:04

Real Madrid which probably a lot of

01:09:06

people would have bet on

01:09:08

um you're kind of into that zone of end

01:09:10

of season and what you're playing for as

01:09:11

a club like Chelsea and that's not the

01:09:13

normal Chelsea should be playing for

01:09:14

something and in the end we played for

01:09:16

not so much and of course another reason

01:09:18

my motivation come down so I probably

01:09:20

could have been a bit more ahead of the

01:09:22

game than that whether that would have

01:09:23

changed my mind I don't have a regret

01:09:24

about doing it I went back there if

01:09:26

people from the outside want to

01:09:28

um you know

01:09:30

criticize or have a view on it from the

01:09:32

outside for six or seven weeks work I've

01:09:34

got no problem with that I worked at

01:09:35

Chelsea before I worked at other clubs

01:09:37

and you know it's another experience it

01:09:40

wasn't my most favorite experience in my

01:09:42

footballing career I won't lie but it's

01:09:44

an experience and I have learned out of

01:09:46

it not so not so much but I've mentioned

01:09:48

a few of the things

01:09:49

not your favorite experience did you

01:09:51

enjoy it be honest

01:09:53

um I enjoyed the first few weeks I felt

01:09:56

like I was back at Cobham I know so many

01:09:58

people there I was like into the

01:10:00

challenge

01:10:00

in the middle bit I probably started to

01:10:03

understand more that there's there's a

01:10:06

lack of you know what we've spoken about

01:10:09

um and then in the last week we had Man

01:10:10

City away Manchester United away in

01:10:12

Newcastle at home as I run in and I was

01:10:14

like okay let's get through this week

01:10:16

because I could see that the players

01:10:18

were ready for the season to finish you

01:10:20

know it's again some of it I got on a

01:10:23

human level does not hurt you to some

01:10:25

degree like because you love this club

01:10:26

so much and you're a winner and if you

01:10:28

see these players have checked out

01:10:29

you're you know it's not just they're

01:10:31

checking out on you as a manager but

01:10:32

they're checking out in the club that

01:10:33

you love yeah as a general as a general

01:10:36

it didn't hurt me because

01:10:38

having worked in football for a period

01:10:40

never been a player a long time I've

01:10:41

seen a lot of these instances and I'm

01:10:44

not holding the players to my standard

01:10:47

as such and and a lot of them I didn't

01:10:49

know the backstory in the Side Stories I

01:10:51

could get that they were moving on so

01:10:52

you know if a player is moving on they

01:10:54

might just not you know they might not

01:10:55

be ready for those last few games they

01:10:57

might have a bit of an issue or

01:10:58

something and you know but there's no

01:11:00

way that you you can accept that

01:11:02

there's no but but is it like well put

01:11:04

it this way I don't wanna I don't want

01:11:05

to come here and Shout too much because

01:11:07

in a short period

01:11:09

um it's hard for me to make too many

01:11:10

statements what I will say is that I

01:11:12

think I unders I understood the role of

01:11:14

being interim and I understood that

01:11:17

probably there was not much

01:11:19

there's certainly not much the game for

01:11:21

me saying uh that was so bad or that was

01:11:23

so bad now because when I look back I'll

01:11:25

probably just try and take my own thing

01:11:26

out of it and I don't I don't want to go

01:11:28

there I didn't work long enough with the

01:11:30

players to be there to one guy and I

01:11:31

can't believe that happened at the end

01:11:32

of the season you know I walked into a

01:11:33

position with some of them were a bit

01:11:34

disenchanted or whatever and I'm not

01:11:37

going to tell that that player that you

01:11:38

shouldn't feel like this but I'll try

01:11:39

and drive them and drive them amongst

01:11:40

the group but it's not for me to go

01:11:42

because a lot of players will sit with a

01:11:43

couple of players sat with me and said

01:11:44

listen I'm going to be leaving in the

01:11:45

summer and find it a bit difficult I'm

01:11:47

like okay I get that I'm not going to

01:11:49

change that in four weeks or whatever so

01:11:51

yeah so what was the objective then in

01:11:53

the in the four weeks when you're

01:11:54

thinking about when you realized that

01:11:55

what was the sort of behind the scenes

01:11:58

context

01:11:59

do your objective shifts and shifts

01:12:01

slightly and go okay

01:12:02

success here looks now looks like this

01:12:05

for me yeah in reality and I didn't get

01:12:09

that because it would be results you

01:12:10

know because everyone would um

01:12:13

would judge me on results so in terms of

01:12:15

me it would be success here to have got

01:12:17

better results in that period of time

01:12:18

and come through there working at a high

01:12:20

level Club again you know it's it's

01:12:22

extreme pressures it's the media is the

01:12:25

Players it's everything is trying to get

01:12:26

results in games and in some games we

01:12:28

competed against Real Madrid we competed

01:12:30

against Manchester City we competed but

01:12:32

you know that wasn't to be but that was

01:12:34

my version of success but you know

01:12:35

football is not that simple you know

01:12:37

so many journalists ask you after if you

01:12:39

you kind of like regret taking the job

01:12:41

and your answer's always been like no

01:12:42

because I've learned a lot it's your

01:12:44

Club it's Chelsea

01:12:46

um however had you known the context and

01:12:49

this is only something we can know in

01:12:50

hindsight we can't know it in foresight

01:12:52

if there was some magic Genie that could

01:12:55

have shown you the context the behind

01:12:57

the scenes the Dynamics the 32 players

01:12:59

the culture

01:13:02

honestly do you think you would have

01:13:03

made a different decision because I

01:13:05

think I would have yeah but we don't

01:13:07

have hindsight obviously we it's a

01:13:09

magical thing that yeah but I think

01:13:11

probably and you and you might think I'm

01:13:13

wrong for saying this but you would

01:13:14

probably be taking some emotion out of

01:13:16

it from my point and also just how I am

01:13:19

about the challenge of going into that

01:13:21

so if you say all right all the context

01:13:23

is here Frank but you're not going to

01:13:24

know what the results are yet but here's

01:13:25

all the context you know this player is

01:13:27

disenchanted I kind of knew that this is

01:13:29

how it's working I'm not I would be like

01:13:31

okay this is what I've got to work with

01:13:32

can I get results and whether I was

01:13:36

um misguided in my own thoughts I

01:13:37

probably would have gone yeah I would do

01:13:39

that if I've got to be honest it's too

01:13:41

easy for me to say I wouldn't have done

01:13:42

it for that and and nobody gave me that

01:13:44

what you said if you had that in an

01:13:46

Ideal World I understand what you're

01:13:47

saying and again that's why people might

01:13:49

look I don't I generally don't have a

01:13:51

problem with you know someone how I

01:13:53

would possibly have a view from the

01:13:54

outside on someone doing what I did I

01:13:56

don't think it's like changed the world

01:13:57

I think my I played for 13 years at

01:13:59

Chelsea I've coached them before in the

01:14:01

Champions League for two years on the

01:14:02

truck like I don't think that whether

01:14:04

people want to have a view on me I don't

01:14:05

worry about about that I went back for

01:14:07

that challenge at that period and you

01:14:09

know we didn't get the results I wanted

01:14:11

I know a lot of the reasons why I'll

01:14:13

take the responsibility for my reasons

01:14:14

why

01:14:15

um and that was it you know I don't have

01:14:17

a big issue with it it's like because

01:14:18

it's Chelsea's so topical you manage

01:14:20

chose it's one of the biggest clubs in

01:14:21

the world and it's it's one of those

01:14:22

clubs that takes so much especially in

01:14:24

the Roman Abram which is so much

01:14:26

interest because there's a turnover you

01:14:28

know lose one or two games and it's like

01:14:29

oh what's happening here so you know

01:14:32

it's uh I'm big enough and strong enough

01:14:34

to handle that stuff so you would have

01:14:36

having seen the context you would have

01:14:38

backed yourself regardless I don't

01:14:40

regardless that sounds like I'm thinking

01:14:42

I'm some Superman that turned out not to

01:14:43

be Superman you know what I mean I don't

01:14:45

I don't

01:14:47

I don't know you're asking me so

01:14:48

hypothetical the season ends eventually

01:14:51

um

01:14:52

relief relieved in any way how do you

01:14:54

feel it um the last as I said last

01:14:56

couple of weeks were quite tough because

01:14:58

it was seeing that season that's not for

01:15:00

someone like me and for a club like

01:15:01

Chelsea like it's not a nice place to be

01:15:03

you know I want to want to challenge for

01:15:04

things and that's that's not nice I

01:15:06

release probably yeah

01:15:08

um because I knew it would end and it

01:15:09

ended and it wasn't that nice of time

01:15:11

time to have holidays that I've planned

01:15:13

before yeah for sure

01:15:16

um and time to reflect and I haven't got

01:15:18

a huge amount of Reflections on it you

01:15:19

know a lot of people have but I haven't

01:15:21

I've got more Reflections on the year at

01:15:22

Everton and a 18 months at Chelsea

01:15:25

before in Derby this this period was so

01:15:27

abstract in a way for me that interim

01:15:28

rail was so different that I I can't put

01:15:31

it into a context of like I wish I'd

01:15:33

gone on a meeting on day one if I'd have

01:15:34

done a meeting about culture I think

01:15:35

they would it would have changed like I

01:15:37

don't it wouldn't have changed you know

01:15:39

if my tactics were slightly different in

01:15:40

that game I don't believe it would have

01:15:42

changed and me overthink I would

01:15:44

definitely think that if it was there so

01:15:46

you know I might be right or wrong but

01:15:47

so I don't so relief and a feeling of

01:15:50

like I wish they'd gone better you know

01:15:51

that's really nature and I wanted it to

01:15:53

be better because I'm Chelsea person you

01:15:55

know the Chelsea fans are fantastic with

01:15:57

me in this modern world I'm not saying

01:15:59

Flick online you'll find everyone

01:16:01

fantastic but in terms of Stanford

01:16:02

bridge I think there's an understanding

01:16:04

at the moment the club's not where he

01:16:06

wants to be and Chelsea fans actually

01:16:07

pretty good with that there's some other

01:16:09

clubs that would be like we lost at home

01:16:11

to Brentford two-nil and like there'll

01:16:12

be some clubs that would be fans that

01:16:14

would be a bit more vocal they were

01:16:15

actually pretty good I think you know

01:16:16

they're waiting to see something better

01:16:18

this year but they've also Chelsea fans

01:16:20

watch the team in the second division in

01:16:23

the in the 80s and and seen some

01:16:25

struggles over the years you know the

01:16:26

old Affair and so I do think that the

01:16:29

success that they've enjoyed as a club

01:16:31

for these 20 years or so it's a real

01:16:34

appreciation of it and you know I don't

01:16:36

want to go on forever but I do think

01:16:37

they understand it's a difficult moment

01:16:38

I certainly felt that at Stamford Bridge

01:16:40

yeah they were super they were chanting

01:16:42

your name even at all traffic when I was

01:16:43

there yeah um even though the scoreline

01:16:46

wasn't great and yeah I actually do

01:16:47

think that the Chelsea fans have

01:16:48

understood that the new ownership what

01:16:50

you said to their intentions are good

01:16:51

yeah and I think they can they can

01:16:53

respect they've brought really good

01:16:54

players there's a transitional moment

01:16:55

but I think they they all appreciate

01:16:57

that

01:16:58

um all of that stuff all of that noise

01:17:00

online Christine you family you said

01:17:03

mentioned scrolling online how does one

01:17:05

yeah keep those two worlds apart so that

01:17:08

you can focus on your job without

01:17:10

letting the outside world in too much

01:17:11

wait so have you got a strategy what's

01:17:13

your I don't scroll too much you don't

01:17:15

scroll no scroll at all very very

01:17:17

occasionally do you have the apps the

01:17:19

social networking apps and stuff I have

01:17:21

Instagram right okay which I'm not but I

01:17:24

have an Instagram page but I'm not very

01:17:25

active on it's just not really me

01:17:28

um so I don't really I scroll for like

01:17:31

nosiness you know what I run up to and

01:17:33

then I have a few friends and stuff or

01:17:34

whatever

01:17:35

um but I don't actively do it because

01:17:38

uh let's say I don't have the time to do

01:17:40

it in terms of myself it's just not

01:17:41

something and I appreciate anyone else

01:17:43

wants to show themselves you know

01:17:44

somebody then or in a gym like that's

01:17:47

their prerogative I've got no problem

01:17:48

with that I just it's for me it's just

01:17:49

not something I do and then doing that's

01:17:51

a nice light I'm quite a boxer in my

01:17:53

life when I said that I mean I box off

01:17:54

things and when I on a box of I don't

01:17:57

want to hear that um you know what some

01:18:00

fan and sound so he's gonna say about me

01:18:02

here and flick on the comments from a

01:18:04

Chelsea post I would just flick by that

01:18:05

I try and stay aware of media because I

01:18:08

think it's I do press conferences every

01:18:10

four days you have to understand what

01:18:12

the tone is of what maybe people are

01:18:14

writing about you or you know the

01:18:15

journalists how do you how do you do

01:18:18

that have you got like someone that

01:18:19

comes and briefs you in the morning yeah

01:18:21

and they tell you what you need to know

01:18:22

yeah uh okay yeah yes and I would I

01:18:25

would tap into it a bit in the week

01:18:26

whether I'm flicking on certain websites

01:18:28

through the week and I wouldn't

01:18:30

obviously go in into the story Into the

01:18:32

comments so we'll kind of go into

01:18:33

because you've got to be across things I

01:18:35

will do that but I think it's very

01:18:36

unhealthy to to scroll but I I found

01:18:39

that as a my playing career missed out

01:18:41

the social media came in towards the end

01:18:43

and I'm so thankful we used to just have

01:18:46

the newspapers giving us like three out

01:18:47

of ten when we played for England and we

01:18:49

got knocked out of the World Cup right

01:18:50

and that was hard about looking at the

01:18:52

paper to see what they gave you and that

01:18:54

was a version of that and then the

01:18:56

social media so I I don't envy the

01:18:58

modern player as a manager I think it's

01:19:00

a bit different I'm not in a place where

01:19:02

I scroll so I've done in videos younger

01:19:04

players men and women now that are

01:19:07

coming through and have sort of

01:19:08

household names and it's getting so much

01:19:10

attention and so much of its negative I

01:19:12

think it's incredible that we got to

01:19:13

that stage that there's that amount of

01:19:16

hate for but it's so easy to be hateful

01:19:19

um and my my I would try and say to the

01:19:23

young players don't look at it but the

01:19:25

minute the game finishes they're

01:19:27

flicking and it's it's difficult in your

01:19:30

professional career what has been what

01:19:31

do you kind of count down as the hardest

01:19:33

moment in terms of scrutiny in your

01:19:35

professional and like you're playing

01:19:36

create and you managerial career what is

01:19:38

been not the hardest moment for you

01:19:40

playing for England really yeah it was

01:19:41

2006 the 2006 World Cup I think I had

01:19:44

wrote the record for shots a goal

01:19:47

without scoring classic isn't they

01:19:49

disallowed one that should have gone in

01:19:50

that was in 2010 okay so 2006 I think I

01:19:53

had like 32 shots or something I went in

01:19:55

as England player of the year I'd had a

01:19:57

good year or two playing for England so

01:19:58

I got myself in there and was becoming

01:20:00

you know

01:20:01

uh you know in fiction the same and then

01:20:04

I went there having scored some goals in

01:20:05

the lead up scoring at Chelsea and just

01:20:07

had a tournament and it wouldn't go in

01:20:10

for me and then that played on my mind

01:20:12

and games I was like second guessing

01:20:13

myself a little bit in the game and

01:20:15

probably off the back of that there's a

01:20:16

lot of criticism

01:20:18

um for myself for some others I remember

01:20:21

us Chelsea boys getting a lot of

01:20:23

criticism for the next six months every

01:20:25

away

01:20:26

game that we went to was like you let

01:20:28

your country Down the song

01:20:30

how does that compare to being a manager

01:20:31

in terms of criticism I found it harder

01:20:33

as a player I don't know whether it's

01:20:35

just maturity

01:20:37

um because uh as a player I don't know

01:20:39

maybe it's in my 20s

01:20:42

um I found it harder as a manager I

01:20:44

think it's a it's a different version of

01:20:46

criticism and

01:20:48

um I think as a player I don't know why

01:20:51

I found it harder if I'm a flyer on the

01:20:53

wall after a bad defeat what do I see

01:20:55

you probably see a bit of uh of a

01:20:59

going over the situation kind of face

01:21:03

um and it's different I have certain

01:21:05

games that they will affect you and it

01:21:07

might not be the one you'd expect you

01:21:08

know the Manchester United you talked

01:21:10

about there we lost 4-1 was it and that

01:21:12

one might be different because I kind of

01:21:13

know where we're at this season's Peter

01:21:15

and out you know we play some good stuff

01:21:16

I don't know whatever and there might be

01:21:18

another game that you know we lost and

01:21:20

it really affected me because maybe

01:21:21

think something I did or should have

01:21:23

done or a substitution so on those bad

01:21:25

ones you would see the face and you know

01:21:27

like I would you know I kind of go into

01:21:29

my show I was like I'm soaking in my

01:21:31

bedroom I'm big big boy you know um but

01:21:33

you know maybe I have a glass of wine

01:21:35

stew on it don't get to bed till quite

01:21:37

late and then you have to go again you

01:21:39

know like it's a great sort of adage

01:21:41

that you can people go you learn more

01:21:42

from defeat you don't feel like that

01:21:44

straight away but you have to be big

01:21:46

enough to go over the game again what's

01:21:48

the strategy now what's the you know the

01:21:50

solution to that what do we do wrong and

01:21:52

and that's what it is you can't get too

01:21:54

down but we're all human

01:21:56

when you were um 29 years old

01:21:58

um one such moment occurred in your life

01:22:00

that really I think from your own words

01:22:02

tested you at a much deeper level you

01:22:04

described yourself as being a zombie for

01:22:06

a year after the passing of your mother

01:22:08

and she died at 58 years old

01:22:10

um while you were playing and while you

01:22:12

were playing at the very very highest

01:22:13

level

01:22:14

that for me struck when I was reading

01:22:16

through the way you described that

01:22:18

moment in your life struck me as a real

01:22:20

sort of destabilizing moment in terms of

01:22:22

focus and all of those things

01:22:25

the question that I um

01:22:27

the question that I had is how as a

01:22:29

player when you're playing at the

01:22:30

highest level and you have something

01:22:31

like that happen how do you show up and

01:22:34

maintain those standards and

01:22:36

be Frank Lampard that's probably what I

01:22:38

meant when I said zombie because it

01:22:40

became autopilot and I think

01:22:43

um

01:22:44

when you talk about mental health that's

01:22:46

the one time that I've been challenged

01:22:48

to the extreme with it and you know a

01:22:51

lot of people go through this and that

01:22:52

was the really interesting thing I found

01:22:54

because I have some perspective now

01:22:55

these years later

01:22:56

is that when it happens to you and it's

01:22:59

unexpected it's very sudden for me

01:23:01

you you've never thought about that kind

01:23:04

of thing happening before the only thing

01:23:05

I'll say is this I was I was a mummy's

01:23:07

boy as I've said before so I used to

01:23:09

have these weird

01:23:10

um moments

01:23:12

I don't know if you have them I have

01:23:13

them sometimes when I think about death

01:23:14

and I kind of go oh God when you die

01:23:16

there's nothing and I have those moments

01:23:18

and it hits me in the stomach for about

01:23:19

like four seconds I'm driving along I'm

01:23:21

like there's nothing there's absolutely

01:23:23

nothing and then you go oh I don't know

01:23:25

where you've got to go to you know and

01:23:26

life carries on and I used to have that

01:23:27

with my mum and then it was probably

01:23:28

Reliance I had to know she was I was so

01:23:30

like mummy's boy you know growing up so

01:23:32

I remember as I got a little bit older

01:23:34

like to my teens and I was like imagine

01:23:36

mum wasn't there for a moment it was a

01:23:37

panic for like 10 seconds I remember

01:23:39

them and then because it was 29 as you

01:23:42

say and it was very sudden it was in a

01:23:44

hotel

01:23:45

um that we used to start pre-game we

01:23:46

were playing Wigan on in the evening at

01:23:49

home

01:23:49

I've got a call from my sister telling

01:23:51

me that she'd fail ill and then so I

01:23:54

kind of went okay let's go into the

01:23:55

hospital okay that's a bit dangerous so

01:23:56

I went to sleep I didn't sleep

01:23:58

supposedly would sleep I was kind of

01:24:00

lying there a bit like tossing and

01:24:01

couldn't get off I'm at the Mainstay

01:24:03

I've got another call and as we get on

01:24:05

the bus to go to Stamford Bridge is like

01:24:06

two a mile

01:24:08

I get the call that no no she's getting

01:24:10

much worse so I'm like right I mean I'm

01:24:13

in Frank I'm a sportsman go and do your

01:24:15

job mode and then I just kind of broke a

01:24:18

bit on the coach kind of well I met I

01:24:19

felt myself go grind someone said to me

01:24:21

until you went great but I felt myself

01:24:23

going like oh

01:24:24

anyway it's got to the stadium said to

01:24:27

the manager manager this is what's

01:24:28

happening and he was like go so I was

01:24:31

like in the tracksuit drive over to East

01:24:33

London mum's in hospital

01:24:34

so when I get there mum's now in the on

01:24:37

on the verge of going into intensive

01:24:38

care so she's got the stuff on and stuff

01:24:40

and I walk in I'm in the tracksuit

01:24:42

and my mum had the oxygen mask on and

01:24:45

she hadn't been speaking so she's taken

01:24:48

really ill in a day and she lifted a um

01:24:50

a mask and said to me what are you doing

01:24:52

here tell me my Chelsea tracksuit and I

01:24:55

didn't know what to say because I didn't

01:24:56

want to go you know I'm here because

01:24:57

this is a really bad situation I mean

01:24:59

I'm just here to see you Mum you know

01:25:00

and then sort of put the mask back on

01:25:02

and then she was really and then they

01:25:04

kind of wheeled her in she held my hand

01:25:05

which I'll never forget and then she

01:25:07

went in and was put into intensive care

01:25:09

so that was one a one week process of my

01:25:13

mum in intensive care so

01:25:16

um she started to get better

01:25:18

um and then

01:25:19

um a few of the family were kind of

01:25:21

getting not excited about it but it was

01:25:23

last progress you know mum's out she'd

01:25:24

been on every machine possible and I'm

01:25:27

still having to think about going into

01:25:29

work I can't remember if I trained that

01:25:30

period I can't remember that week that's

01:25:31

like a blur I just remember being at

01:25:33

home

01:25:33

a lot you know and really you know in a

01:25:36

bad way

01:25:37

um and then we had Champions League

01:25:39

games coming up against Liverpool

01:25:41

played one away I came back mum was

01:25:44

getting a bit better and then we got the

01:25:46

phone call that she'd passed away she

01:25:47

had a brain hemorrhage so just as she

01:25:49

was getting better everyone was excited

01:25:51

she passed away there and then so it was

01:25:53

like the the biggest Devastation I can't

01:25:56

explain and as I say years later I

01:25:59

realized that this happens to so many

01:26:00

other people and when you're a young man

01:26:01

who hadn't really lost anyone you don't

01:26:03

have that real feeling of what that is

01:26:05

and I lost a person that was the closest

01:26:07

person to me you know everything to me

01:26:09

and I'll never forget the feeling of my

01:26:11

stomach if I talk about it I get it

01:26:13

instantly again

01:26:15

um and

01:26:16

um I lost you know what was my best

01:26:19

friend the person that give me all that

01:26:21

kind of emotional stuff I'd spoken about

01:26:22

the warmth and the the sudden feeling

01:26:25

that someone's not going to be with you

01:26:27

like it doesn't compare to anything when

01:26:28

you're that close

01:26:30

um so you know in terms of work after

01:26:32

that probably some of it if I look back

01:26:34

I probably go maybe I should have just

01:26:35

come out of it like life is bigger than

01:26:37

that but it was like my probably a tiny

01:26:39

coping mechanism for me we played a game

01:26:42

a game against Liverpool uh the second

01:26:44

leg and I scored a penalty we won the

01:26:47

game now we're getting sent to the

01:26:48

Champions League final and I remember

01:26:49

sitting address from afterwards and I

01:26:51

had this almighty

01:26:53

um like sense of of fatigue and you know

01:26:57

body and mental fatigue

01:26:59

uh I went home and sort of opened a beer

01:27:02

and I couldn't even drink it I went to

01:27:04

bed and it was like it's like everything

01:27:05

came out of me then of like a week or

01:27:07

two a full blast of

01:27:08

of this pain you know it's just complete

01:27:11

pain and then you lose your best friend

01:27:12

and the person that you know I've still

01:27:14

got a number in my phone and I've still

01:27:15

got a couple of voice note things we

01:27:17

were never a big family for videos and

01:27:19

stuff and I wish we were

01:27:21

um the only thing I have is that my

01:27:22

mum's sister is Sandra Sandra redknapp

01:27:24

Harry redknapp's wife

01:27:26

and every time I speak to Sandra I hear

01:27:27

my mum they look very similar they sound

01:27:30

very similar and it's like in the first

01:27:32

period it was painful now it's kind of

01:27:34

nice you know because that's a memory

01:27:36

for me but the you know it's the the

01:27:38

feeling the grief you know I I it

01:27:41

catches up on me now and again many

01:27:42

years later I think I probably had a

01:27:44

year

01:27:46

um I was single I was like probably

01:27:48

drinking a little bit I was playing

01:27:49

fantastic football at a really good year

01:27:51

football is weird

01:27:53

um and then I met Christine and thank

01:27:54

God Christine came along around that

01:27:56

time because I was a little bit

01:27:58

you know not not right in that period so

01:28:00

it was a

01:28:01

it was a it was a really

01:28:03

um

01:28:04

obviously you know anybody who loses

01:28:06

someone so close to them but she was so

01:28:08

big in my life and was such a balance in

01:28:10

my life and then you know that sudden

01:28:12

thing is just terrible did you process

01:28:15

that because it sounds like

01:28:17

because you had football commitments

01:28:18

back to back to back that there wasn't

01:28:20

really an opportunity to like sit and

01:28:22

yeah I I don't know I mean I've been

01:28:25

through the experience and

01:28:26

um

01:28:27

that zombie thing I talk about is like I

01:28:30

I couldn't comprehend it I felt empty

01:28:32

and weak but I had a job to do and the

01:28:35

job Associated wasn't trying to be a

01:28:37

hero I just didn't know where if I think

01:28:40

if I'd have laid around all day I would

01:28:42

have really taken more of a hit it was

01:28:44

almost like getting up and going to work

01:28:46

in that period and having something to

01:28:48

aim for was just almost like that's what

01:28:50

I should do and then I definitely took

01:28:53

the hit later on for that I definitely

01:28:56

took a kind of deferred moments of grief

01:29:00

and I'd talk about them like I say there

01:29:01

it could be anything that would be

01:29:04

um a couple of glasses of wine and

01:29:07

something said at a dinner table a

01:29:09

moment of someone else and I feel bad

01:29:11

about this talking about their mother or

01:29:13

something you know and they're talking

01:29:14

glowingly about their mother and and and

01:29:17

you kind of get hit you know

01:29:19

um or another parent's birthday like

01:29:22

crazy things I've got no right to be

01:29:24

upset about if you know what I mean but

01:29:25

it just hits me and you kind of and I

01:29:27

that sort of get on with it like hard no

01:29:29

get on with it son kind of feel feel

01:29:31

which has stuck with me that was the one

01:29:33

time I remember being absolutely broken

01:29:34

and tested on that because I had now and

01:29:37

I got some anger as well I remember I

01:29:38

used to I remember having road rage a

01:29:40

couple of times literally the few days

01:29:41

after I pulled out of my drive

01:29:43

and it was a Chelsea game so I wasn't

01:29:45

playing it because of what happened but

01:29:46

I was at home and I was driving to go

01:29:48

and see my sister or something someone

01:29:49

sort of drove across me and I got out of

01:29:52

the car though and I went for them and

01:29:53

it was a Chelsea fan he went Frank

01:29:54

calmed down I was like yeah sorry and I

01:29:56

had these moments of anger and a period

01:29:58

afterwards which would just come out of

01:29:59

me out and I went I wouldn't say that

01:30:01

they've stuck with me from now but it

01:30:02

definitely changed me as a person I

01:30:04

don't know how to explain it but it

01:30:05

definitely made me have a different take

01:30:07

on things and be a bit more

01:30:09

I don't know if ruthless is the word but

01:30:11

more you know that thing about kind of

01:30:13

like cutting out

01:30:14

some people that were in your life that

01:30:16

you maybe would have got on with I just

01:30:18

kind of took a little bit more of a

01:30:19

direct approach in my life after that

01:30:22

amongst some serious moments of grief

01:30:25

within it you know I

01:30:26

it's uh

01:30:28

it was just it's a tough time the the

01:30:30

only benefit it sounds really warped I

01:30:33

said this to someone the other day the

01:30:34

only benefit is that now I you know I I

01:30:36

don't have to go through that again that

01:30:38

sounds really strange it was such a

01:30:40

tough period for me

01:30:42

that the only thing now and I see you

01:30:43

know Christine's family are there and

01:30:45

other people around me have friends and

01:30:46

family and I miss my mum so much like

01:30:48

every day and as time goes by of course

01:30:51

things balance out but I can't envisage

01:30:54

ever going through that pain again about

01:30:55

what I did because my mum was the only

01:30:56

person would be now now Christine is

01:30:57

obviously that person in my life and my

01:30:59

children of course but in terms of what

01:31:01

she meant to me at that time the only

01:31:02

thing is like I can go that is so

01:31:04

painful I really couldn't go through

01:31:06

that again now that's it's a weird way

01:31:08

of looking at it I hope that doesn't

01:31:09

sound strange it's just a process and it

01:31:13

was too difficult and it's almost like

01:31:15

it was almost like a dream it was my

01:31:18

life was never supposed to be like that

01:31:19

in my head you know my mum was 58 and I

01:31:22

felt like she was quite old and now I

01:31:24

started doing the math and I'm 44. you

01:31:26

know like and you kind of go it wasn't

01:31:27

old you know like I was 29 a month felt

01:31:29

a bit older at a point now he's like she

01:31:31

should be mid 70s now and you know as I

01:31:34

say the sudden nature of it meant you

01:31:36

couldn't speak to her as well which was

01:31:38

like as I've got older I've realized

01:31:40

that my mum would have known exactly how

01:31:41

I felt about her but time it was like

01:31:43

I want to say something more you know

01:31:45

and I couldn't

01:31:48

you want to say something more

01:31:49

just like thank you do you know what I

01:31:51

mean like thanks to

01:31:54

um for being the balance for being the

01:31:56

one

01:31:56

um

01:31:57

who've you know in those tough moments

01:31:59

when my dad was being harsh or something

01:32:01

there for being the one that would when

01:32:03

I was crying in the bath after a game

01:32:04

and coming and knocking on the door it's

01:32:06

like for making me food you know things

01:32:08

a great mother does she just was that

01:32:10

you know my mum was there to sort of it

01:32:12

might be sound old school now and but

01:32:14

she was a hairdresser by trade who then

01:32:16

became my house wife and a mother and

01:32:19

you know for everything that was gone on

01:32:21

in my family life and lots of things

01:32:23

have she was always the one that was

01:32:25

like the real stand-up when I look back

01:32:27

now I I understand it even more that she

01:32:29

had the ethics and everything about her

01:32:31

and then I would love to just be able to

01:32:33

say that you know it's like those you

01:32:34

know an emotional song can get you going

01:32:36

it's like can I speak to her one more

01:32:37

time to say here's a monologue for you

01:32:40

you know like just to to hear it but I

01:32:42

with time I definitely have got more

01:32:44

strength in the fact that she knew that

01:32:46

and that's that's it

01:32:49

and when everyone I speak to says that

01:32:51

you are that Class Act you are the

01:32:53

you're kind you're empathetic and all of

01:32:57

that

01:32:58

now I know where that's come that comes

01:33:00

from now

01:33:01

I don't know listen I I knew you were

01:33:03

going to ask me this because I've seen

01:33:05

you you know it wouldn't you know it's

01:33:06

part of my story

01:33:08

and I didn't want to cry I'm surprised I

01:33:11

haven't

01:33:12

um but because I've cried probably

01:33:14

enough at different times

01:33:16

um but it's um

01:33:17

it's almost something like it is

01:33:19

strangely therapeutic to speak about and

01:33:21

this is very public and that's not

01:33:23

normally how I'm in very private allies

01:33:25

Christian are very private it's how we

01:33:26

like to live and sometimes when those

01:33:29

moments where I say the really

01:33:30

grief-stricken moments over a glass of

01:33:31

wine

01:33:32

kind of feel better after them because

01:33:34

that's probably why I held in when I was

01:33:36

like hitting that penalty and and people

01:33:38

giving me a huge plot I remember when

01:33:40

you score that penalty when your mama

01:33:41

just died as if it was like a hero

01:33:42

moment it wasn't it was me just kind of

01:33:44

going I got to try and do this and and

01:33:45

do my job and then these moments now

01:33:48

sometimes are quite therapeutic if I'm

01:33:50

honest but it's uh you know especially

01:33:52

for other people that have gone through

01:33:54

that and much worse you know a lot of

01:33:56

worse things can happen in different

01:33:57

ways but until you feel that loss you

01:34:01

know I remember I actually remember

01:34:02

thinking when I lost mum it was like a

01:34:04

couple of my friends lost their parents

01:34:05

when they were younger

01:34:07

and I remember then thinking I've never

01:34:09

really broached that subject with them

01:34:10

you know a couple of my friends are like

01:34:12

14 and lost I met at school at that age

01:34:15

who had already lost their parent or

01:34:16

were in the process and I never really

01:34:19

kind of went and they were like 14 I was

01:34:20

29 and I'd never even not thought about

01:34:22

it but you know you kind of go sorry

01:34:24

mate and then you move on you can

01:34:26

imagine what's you know all the things

01:34:27

and I had to approach it 29 is slightly

01:34:29

different but those things so it you

01:34:31

know life kicks you sometimes and that

01:34:32

was the biggest kick I think I'll

01:34:34

I've I've had till this point you know

01:34:36

and hopefully

01:34:38

um for a long time

01:34:39

do you talk about your emotions with

01:34:41

Christine yeah I do I do I think I'm

01:34:44

quite good about that she will say to me

01:34:46

sometimes I'm quite closed yeah for that

01:34:48

stuff and then that kind of kicks me

01:34:51

into talking about it because

01:34:54

yeah my girlfriend's really good at that

01:34:56

yeah annoyingly good yeah no they're

01:34:58

really good and I don't mind she sees me

01:35:00

going into the Zone kind of thing

01:35:01

sometimes and she's about what's

01:35:03

bothering you like oh well it's this you

01:35:04

know it's probably something that's a

01:35:05

bit irrelevant or something but is that

01:35:07

the first answer you'll give because

01:35:08

mine's usually nothing yeah

01:35:12

no that's true but it's good I think

01:35:16

because I definitely want to don't come

01:35:18

across as this you know like I said like

01:35:19

this get on with it thing it's certainly

01:35:21

not me I look at myself as being you

01:35:23

know the balance again of my mother was

01:35:25

that one that she gave me that kind of

01:35:26

empathy I associate all the empathy with

01:35:28

my mother that I had because that's how

01:35:31

she was was always with me so when I you

01:35:33

know it's just I also have a mechanism

01:35:35

that kind of keeps it there but it's

01:35:37

definitely inside and you know maybe

01:35:39

children also help with that because

01:35:40

when you see your child

01:35:42

and their smiles and their sort of

01:35:44

innocent nature and how they are I think

01:35:46

that also helps you become a little bit

01:35:47

more emotional because you start to care

01:35:49

about that more than pretty much

01:35:50

anything else which is which has also

01:35:52

been a beautiful thing over the last few

01:35:55

years I've realized that my first

01:35:56

Foundation is my health something you've

01:35:58

heard me talk about a lot nothing

01:36:00

matters more than that first foundation

01:36:01

so that is why I'm so excited to be

01:36:03

involved with a company like whoop who

01:36:06

are leading the charge when it comes to

01:36:08

bettering your health all my friends

01:36:09

have received free Loops from me because

01:36:11

once you've tried whoop I think it's

01:36:14

like lights turning on to your health

01:36:16

that's the only way I can describe it my

01:36:17

sleep my performance my recovery my

01:36:19

stress it's like someone turned the

01:36:20

lights on I'm sure you guys know but for

01:36:23

those that don't know what whoop is it's

01:36:24

a wearable health and fitness coach that

01:36:26

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01:36:27

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01:36:31

health and I have become entirely

01:36:33

utterly obsessed with it if you know me

01:36:34

well enough you know how obsessed I am

01:36:36

with the smallest details I think the

01:36:37

Small Things compounded together produce

01:36:39

the biggest gains in our life and that

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is exactly what woop does in my health

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01:36:59

on I'd love I'd love I'd love to know a

01:37:01

quick word on huel as you know they're a

01:37:03

sponsor of this podcast and I'm an

01:37:04

investor in the company one of the

01:37:06

things I've never really explained is

01:37:07

how I came to have a relationship with

01:37:09

huel one day in the office many years

01:37:10

ago a guy walked past called Michael and

01:37:13

he was wearing a heeled t-shirt and I

01:37:15

was really compelled by the logo I just

01:37:17

thought from a design aesthetic point of

01:37:18

view it was really interesting and I

01:37:20

asked him what that word meant and why

01:37:22

he was wearing that T-shirt and he said

01:37:23

it's this brand called heal and they

01:37:25

make food that is nutritionally complete

01:37:27

and very very convenient and has the

01:37:30

planet in mind and he the next day

01:37:32

dropped off a little bottle of fuel on

01:37:34

my desk and from that day onwards I

01:37:36

completely got it because I'm someone

01:37:38

that cares tremendously about having a

01:37:40

nutritionally complete diet but

01:37:42

sometimes because of the way my life is

01:37:44

that falls by the wayside so if there

01:37:46

was a really convenient reliable

01:37:48

trustworthy way for me to be

01:37:49

nutritionally complete in an affordable

01:37:51

away I was all ears especially if it's a

01:37:54

way that is conscious of the planet give

01:37:56

it a chance give it a shot let me know

01:37:58

what you think

01:37:59

what's the future like for you Frank

01:38:01

what do you think I don't know I'm very

01:38:04

it's hard to know a lot of people could

01:38:06

say to me are you sure you know get into

01:38:08

Panda tree it's easy put your feet up do

01:38:09

what you know that that's and it's

01:38:11

certainly I I get my

01:38:14

um enjoyment I get my my gets my blood

01:38:17

flowing is working and being a coach

01:38:19

so that's what I want to do and I'm in

01:38:22

no immediate rush to do it the reality

01:38:24

is off the back of Everton and Chelsea

01:38:26

probably time for me to take my time

01:38:28

anyway

01:38:29

because of what opportunity they might

01:38:30

be out there there may be no opportunity

01:38:31

there may be something that comes up

01:38:33

that I want to look at and say does that

01:38:35

work for me on all purposes because I

01:38:38

get your point with the Chelsea ones

01:38:39

like did you really need to take that

01:38:41

and the the jobs I've taken have been

01:38:43

quite challenging and a lot of I'm not

01:38:45

saying I'm going to be giving this like

01:38:46

here you go this is going to be great

01:38:48

so I would Point try and choose well

01:38:51

without sounding too picky because you

01:38:54

know I will want to work

01:38:56

um and in the meantime

01:38:58

do the things that make me happy which

01:39:00

is being around my family I like to

01:39:02

travel it's like the one thing that I

01:39:05

um really like to spend my money on

01:39:07

being out it's when when I travel I want

01:39:08

to go better than home

01:39:10

and if I don't go better than home I'll

01:39:12

stay at home and I've got a nice house

01:39:13

so you know so I we we love that so I'll

01:39:17

you know use the time to travel a bit be

01:39:18

with the family and my children spend

01:39:20

more time my Elder daughters are doing a

01:39:22

levels in gcses now and be be around

01:39:25

that and that's nice and sometimes you

01:39:26

know I think that's good for me because

01:39:28

I am so driven it's like I feel like I

01:39:30

should work I should work and actually

01:39:32

sometimes you can actually I'm 45 and

01:39:33

I've done it right in my life maybe I

01:39:34

don't need need to work and that and

01:39:36

that's not a bad place to be I'm

01:39:37

fortunate I don't I have gratitude for

01:39:39

that so at the moment it's the Gratitude

01:39:41

of that enjoy it and then try and work

01:39:44

again and what will be what would be

01:39:45

your sort of decision making framework

01:39:47

when people call and they say what about

01:39:49

this job or what about this what's the

01:39:51

how would you decide whether it's worth

01:39:52

taking the

01:39:54

well it's hard to say but from my

01:39:56

experience I would want to make sure I

01:39:58

would want to have conversations to find

01:40:00

out what the the job is and I can't I

01:40:03

can't sit here feel this way and talk to

01:40:05

you about being a lion then they need to

01:40:07

feel the way that you know a bit of

01:40:08

coaching they're going to do this and

01:40:09

work together

01:40:10

and probably take another job where it

01:40:13

doesn't feel aligned you know I I

01:40:14

shouldn't um

01:40:16

do that so I'd want to have a

01:40:17

conversation and be like what what can I

01:40:19

do for you I have to tell myself clearly

01:40:21

that's the point but what can how will

01:40:23

it work together and maybe get something

01:40:25

that feels a bit like and I don't mind I

01:40:27

will work you know in in the UK anywhere

01:40:30

I would travel if an opportunity came up

01:40:32

I would certainly prioritize a bit of

01:40:34

family to make sure that it's something

01:40:36

that works for my family

01:40:38

um ideally so I don't know I don't know

01:40:41

about that one everyone seems to be

01:40:42

going there they do they do I mean I

01:40:45

would prefer to stay in the UK for sure

01:40:47

um and I don't mind I went and lived in

01:40:49

Everton for a year lives in Derby for a

01:40:50

year I miss my family a lot but you have

01:40:52

to you know make those big decisions

01:40:53

with fortunate in ways but we'll um I'll

01:40:56

see I'll see what comes up it's hard to

01:40:58

call before it comes if we sit here in

01:40:59

10 years time in this chapters this next

01:41:01

sort of 10 years this next decade has

01:41:02

been a success what does that look like

01:41:03

what would have had to have happened for

01:41:05

it to have been a success this next

01:41:07

decade well 55 year old frank and Ming

01:41:09

55 well I'm here so that's good at 55 I

01:41:12

think my you know obviously the family

01:41:15

to be well and healthy you understand

01:41:16

that more when you hit for me it was him

01:41:18

probably faulty health and and

01:41:21

understanding maybe you check yourself

01:41:22

more on those things and lifestyle and

01:41:25

then

01:41:26

um to be hopefully have managed and had

01:41:29

success coaching you know that's that's

01:41:32

what I want to do I can't see what it

01:41:34

looks like but I would love to be able

01:41:35

to to show myself consistently in a job

01:41:39

and what I can do I haven't had that

01:41:40

opportunity yet for whether that was me

01:41:42

or whatever as the circumstances have

01:41:44

been but to do that so I'm very

01:41:46

determined to do I'm good like that I'm

01:41:47

determined that I like to work like

01:41:49

anyone who knows me will know that like

01:41:50

regardless of what my career's been if

01:41:53

you put it in front of me I'll tackle it

01:41:54

head on and then you know I'm

01:41:57

um I'm always trying to improve so

01:41:59

hopefully in 10 years I can show you

01:42:00

that

01:42:01

there's got to be a part of you that

01:42:03

wants to go back to Chelsea someday

01:42:05

knowing if I know you are the way I know

01:42:07

you there's got to be a part of you and

01:42:08

suddenly that's like you know one day

01:42:09

I'll I'll go back it's funny you know

01:42:11

like you talk about should you have

01:42:13

taken that job I reckon if you'd have

01:42:14

asked me that before going back

01:42:16

I might have said no as in not like I

01:42:19

don't want to go back to Chelsea but I

01:42:21

would have certainly seen myself no no

01:42:22

like that's chapters done as a coach

01:42:26

but now I've been back I would think

01:42:27

about it even more and it's strange and

01:42:30

I think you know the the fact that the

01:42:33

ownership has changed at Chelsea and

01:42:34

it's gone in a different direction I

01:42:36

think it can be a really positive thing

01:42:37

for the club I think people might not

01:42:38

see that now but I think it really can

01:42:41

um but obviously I have a lot to do to

01:42:42

be part of that ever but like I I don't

01:42:44

you have to make a clear decision when

01:42:46

we play 13 years of Chelsea I said I'll

01:42:49

never play anywhere else I end up planet

01:42:50

Man City some people criticize me for

01:42:52

that it's fine I didn't expect it but

01:42:54

man city was an amazing experience I

01:42:55

went to New York City it was an amazing

01:42:57

experience when you become a manager you

01:43:00

can't say I'm going to be Chelsea

01:43:01

manager I'm going to be this you have to

01:43:02

take the journey because that's those

01:43:04

are the rules for all of us you know you

01:43:06

can be you know a success for a moment

01:43:10

of Everton everyone goes hold on you

01:43:11

stand up and then you know next job what

01:43:13

is it and I would I you know I have

01:43:15

respect for so many big clubs that you

01:43:17

know there are certain clubs I wouldn't

01:43:19

manage I'm not going to declare them

01:43:21

because that just sounds like cheap and

01:43:22

but I think it's important I I respect

01:43:25

my time Chelsea Supply and what the club

01:43:27

means to me but I don't see it as the

01:43:29

B100 but as I say having been back there

01:43:32

it did re-light a fire I left Chelsea in

01:43:35

covert as a manager because I didn't

01:43:37

have any fans for my my last period so I

01:43:39

kind of walked out like a little bit

01:43:41

through the back door

01:43:43

um in a sense

01:43:44

um and this time it felt different and

01:43:46

that wasn't a great period but it is

01:43:48

still a huge club for me so maybe I'm

01:43:49

really excited to watch what happens

01:43:51

next thank you um you did a great job at

01:43:53

Derby obviously then you got um Chelsea

01:43:55

into the the champions league if I think

01:43:56

finished fourth That season

01:43:58

um under a transfer ban and then you

01:44:00

kept Everton up on the last day of the

01:44:01

Season which again most people had kind

01:44:03

of counted Everton out so obviously

01:44:04

there was that interim period I look

01:44:06

it's funny because I'm gonna be honest

01:44:07

so I when when we were meant to have

01:44:09

this podcast last time then you called

01:44:10

me

01:44:11

um and said listen I can't come Can't

01:44:13

Tell You Why

01:44:14

um and I kind of put two and two

01:44:15

together and figured it was the job I

01:44:17

looked at that and thought look I don't

01:44:19

know Chelsea 11th or 12th at the moment

01:44:21

like what's what's the worst that can

01:44:23

happen really what I didn't know is the

01:44:25

the back context so if I was in your

01:44:27

shoes uh in hindsight and we don't have

01:44:30

hindsight in in the moment I would have

01:44:33

probably I would have not taken the job

01:44:35

if I was in that situation but in

01:44:36

foresight I definitely would have hmm

01:44:38

100 yeah all the reasons you said if

01:44:40

Manchester United called me now I take

01:44:41

the job yeah and I have no experience

01:44:43

yeah so but um but I think what we're

01:44:46

gonna I'm really excited to see what we

01:44:47

see next from you and your sort of

01:44:48

managerial career because

01:44:49

I mean what you the experience you've

01:44:51

had warts and all is worth a ton yeah

01:44:55

you know at all different levels all

01:44:57

different phases transitional relegation

01:44:59

battles all of that is worth more than a

01:45:01

lot of successes are worth and you've

01:45:02

had that in a short window of time so

01:45:04

really really excited about your next

01:45:06

chapter whenever it comes thank you um

01:45:09

is there anything at all you would say

01:45:10

to Chelsea fans that are watching this

01:45:12

now that are

01:45:13

um

01:45:14

that would love to you know Chelsea fans

01:45:16

will be listening to this because they

01:45:17

want to get a your opinion on what's

01:45:18

just happened but they probably want to

01:45:20

get your opinion on like what you think

01:45:22

the future looks like I guess and also I

01:45:24

think a lot of them do want to like

01:45:25

check in on you because since you've

01:45:27

left we've not really heard from you in

01:45:28

this context yeah and I've enjoyed that

01:45:30

I've enjoyed not speaking it's been nice

01:45:32

um no I think for Chelsea fans I would

01:45:34

say that um

01:45:37

uh in terms of what do I think is next I

01:45:39

I listen to possession I spoke yesterday

01:45:42

was his first press conference and he he

01:45:44

uh he spoke very well and he spoke about

01:45:47

bringing a a Unity at the training

01:45:49

ground and a family feel and then

01:45:51

winning which is Chelsea DNA

01:45:53

so I think they've got a really good

01:45:55

manager in charge and I think the

01:45:56

players will definitely develop with

01:45:58

their you know as they as they develop

01:46:02

naturally they're good players young

01:46:03

players there has to be some patience in

01:46:05

putting that together because I think

01:46:07

that's that has to be clear

01:46:08

and the owners have a big intention so I

01:46:11

think as things settle it may not be

01:46:13

straight away but I think that there's a

01:46:15

really positive future for the club and

01:46:17

I was in it and it was tough but you

01:46:18

know I know how quickly things can

01:46:19

change if you get the strategy right

01:46:22

in terms of me I'm absolutely fine and

01:46:23

I'd certainly appreciate the support I

01:46:26

had from as I say majority a lot of fans

01:46:27

that would you know contact me or be at

01:46:29

Stanford Bridge

01:46:30

and for anybody that was on the other

01:46:32

side of that was like why is Frank back

01:46:33

in the job I I think they maybe I've

01:46:36

explained some of my part in it today

01:46:39

and some of the challenges I'll always

01:46:41

take responsibility I wouldn't walk back

01:46:43

into that challenge without sort of

01:46:44

saying this might not go right and

01:46:45

what's my responsibility so but Chelsea

01:46:48

is always a huge club and as I say I

01:46:49

never went back to Chelsea until

01:46:52

three days before I went and took the

01:46:54

interim job manager and I went to the

01:46:55

Liverpool game and end up having a

01:46:56

conversation

01:46:57

and it was a difficult period for me for

01:46:59

some reason I left in covert as I say

01:47:01

and I moved on to Everton

01:47:03

and it reignited that kind of feeling

01:47:05

being back at Stamford Bridge I have to

01:47:06

say not that I lost it it just reignited

01:47:08

it and you know so to Chelsea fans I

01:47:12

know I'm fine I'm fine I appreciate

01:47:15

their support even my playing career

01:47:17

it's nice when you finish playing

01:47:18

because your playing career is there and

01:47:20

I can look back on it with a lot of

01:47:22

pleasure for a lot of the good moments

01:47:24

when you're in it it's like what's next

01:47:26

and you're sort of like always

01:47:27

challenging yourself when you finish you

01:47:29

kind of go yeah you know that was good

01:47:30

that was all right it was a lot of good

01:47:32

stuff so there were good times and I was

01:47:34

very thankful to be part of a great club

01:47:36

and we'll see

01:47:38

you gave Mason Mount his start

01:47:41

yes I think he's a great signing for

01:47:43

your yeah that's what I was going to say

01:47:44

thank you for that he's fantastic why is

01:47:47

he living why is he leaving Chelsea he's

01:47:49

born and born and bred isn't he yeah I

01:47:51

think it's a complicated one and in the

01:47:53

end I think is

01:47:55

uh he's got a year left on his contract

01:47:56

what I'll say about Mason is

01:47:59

all the things I spoke about there you

01:48:00

talk about like modern players and how

01:48:02

the game's changed he's a throwback to

01:48:05

the attitude and the commitment and the

01:48:08

quality the you know that was the beauty

01:48:10

of working with Mason was that he gave

01:48:12

you so much in terms of his

01:48:15

um effort every day anything you'd ask

01:48:18

him to do was like yeah and he kind of

01:48:19

got it and I think any great player has

01:48:22

to have that kind of intelligence and

01:48:23

that desire about them you know like

01:48:24

what do you need me to do a bit I've got

01:48:25

it and I'll do it I'll repeat it and

01:48:27

also quality so in terms of what he'll

01:48:29

bring to Manchester United it won't just

01:48:31

be what Mason brings it will bring loads

01:48:33

of talent that he's just gonna Gap and

01:48:35

levels yeah I I think so and and don't

01:48:39

win me wrong the bar raise is already

01:48:40

there with Bruno Fernandez but he will

01:48:43

actually yeah casimiro but he will

01:48:45

absolutely fit in with it if you're

01:48:46

trying to build which you're saying a

01:48:48

group mentality of a team and you know

01:48:50

players are just going to give

01:48:52

everything and their talent which type

01:48:54

team he fits it so I've seen some like

01:48:55

sort of alternative reactions to that

01:48:57

it's like oh yeah Mason amounts of

01:48:59

goodbye why would you pay that for him

01:49:01

nice amount is going to be a fantastic

01:49:02

player there my opinion

01:49:04

it's really nice to know because

01:49:06

actually I was a bit on the fence in

01:49:07

regards of don't really know the

01:49:09

character of the man but I have heard

01:49:10

from inside Old Trafford that Eric

01:49:12

tanhard Eric tenhargis really Ultra

01:49:15

focused on exactly what you've said

01:49:16

above everything else he's focused on

01:49:18

that like core values so casimiro um

01:49:21

Bruno

01:49:22

etc etc and so it's nice to know that

01:49:24

Mason is uh yeah he is a bar razor yep

01:49:27

why is he leaving do you know

01:49:30

um seeking a different challenge or is

01:49:32

it no I don't think so I think probably

01:49:33

Mason would have envisaged two years ago

01:49:36

they'd stay at Chelsea for a lot of his

01:49:37

career I just think circumstances his

01:49:39

contract situation

01:49:41

um I know he's got a big love for

01:49:42

Chelsea

01:49:43

um but also in the modern day you know I

01:49:45

think more than more than even in my day

01:49:47

players do move and I don't think you

01:49:49

know if the challenge of moving now it's

01:49:50

come to that for Mason personally

01:49:53

is a is a good challenge for him I would

01:49:55

like to finish that Chelsea because I

01:49:56

think he's he would have been Central to

01:49:58

it but it didn't happen

01:50:00

we have a closing tradition on this

01:50:01

podcast where the last guest leaves a

01:50:03

question for the next guest and I have

01:50:04

to say this is the longest question I've

01:50:05

ever been left for anyone else it's

01:50:07

quite abstract right as well so we're

01:50:09

both gonna have to kind of figure this

01:50:10

one out but the question is

01:50:12

you're gonna be surprised by this when

01:50:14

broken down to its roots or origin the

01:50:17

word

01:50:18

enthusiasm begins with n Theos which

01:50:22

means with God for people who have not

01:50:24

identified something which they are

01:50:26

truly passionate about pursuing can you

01:50:29

suggest a way to cultivate that

01:50:32

enthusiasm

01:50:38

um so I think the real question here is

01:50:39

just in this line here which is when

01:50:40

people for people who haven't identified

01:50:42

something which they are truly

01:50:43

passionate about yeah pursuing how do

01:50:45

they go about that wow

01:50:47

um

01:50:48

thanks to that one yeah

01:50:50

I don't know

01:50:52

um this is a good point actually because

01:50:54

my daughters now my oldest daughter is

01:50:57

going leave getting her a level results

01:50:58

this summer

01:51:00

it's talking about uni but she doesn't

01:51:01

really know what she wants to do and I

01:51:02

actually felt uh not bad I went to

01:51:06

school obviously but my Pathways you

01:51:08

know looking back was like fortunately

01:51:10

was that I didn't have to think about

01:51:11

myself

01:51:12

and I so I haven't got any big answers

01:51:13

for and also like from a modern woman

01:51:16

you know where is the pathway what does

01:51:18

she want to I ask that question and

01:51:19

she's not sure which is completely

01:51:20

understandable so for me I think for her

01:51:23

if if we're flipping it there's maybe

01:51:25

whether it's a passion or not but my

01:51:27

thing and it probably goes back to my

01:51:28

roots is to

01:51:30

the work ethic thing is what I say to it

01:51:32

is to get out there and get in the

01:51:35

workplace and meet people because I

01:51:37

think in the modern world

01:51:39

with my daughters are so engrossed in

01:51:41

social media

01:51:43

they have a lot of answers about life

01:51:45

you know a lot of answers and I'm like

01:51:47

okay I don't agree with that one but

01:51:49

I'll let that one go I don't agree with

01:51:50

that and then I'll start to feel like a

01:51:51

dinosaur but I do think that they kind

01:51:53

of get caught up in that and all the

01:51:54

answers are there and like okay we're

01:51:55

gonna do then and they go I don't know

01:51:56

and you kind of go okay well fine you've

01:51:58

got all this information it's the modern

01:51:59

world but what are you going to do go

01:52:01

out and get a weekend job if you're

01:52:03

going to go to UNI go out and experience

01:52:05

what the real world is like rather than

01:52:07

this alternative world that you're

01:52:08

slightly looking at and then I think

01:52:10

someone might ignite it so that that was

01:52:13

my and again that's probably as deep as

01:52:14

I could go because I don't care where it

01:52:15

is you could be in the coffee shops you

01:52:17

could be in this shop or that shop or

01:52:19

whatever but

01:52:20

um this is my adult story obviously so

01:52:23

it was more about getting out and

01:52:24

meeting people and I guess probably in

01:52:26

in to bring that question back to me

01:52:29

myself going out of my comfort zone and

01:52:32

leaving Chelsea to go to Manchester City

01:52:34

and then live in New York for two years

01:52:36

ignited a million things in May and none

01:52:39

of them were like big Hobbies or

01:52:40

something like that it was just like wow

01:52:42

there's a different world a different

01:52:43

culture people who approach things with

01:52:45

positivity and energy that I've never

01:52:47

seen in England and it changed my

01:52:49

Approach

01:52:50

so maybe my answer would be come out of

01:52:52

your comfort zone and do something which

01:52:53

is different I was fortunate today I

01:52:56

worked there but I was living in

01:52:57

probably what for me is possibly the

01:52:58

best city in the world

01:53:00

and it changed me as a person so maybe

01:53:02

you know to to get the passion try

01:53:05

something take yourself out the comfort

01:53:06

zone and it might just appear for you

01:53:08

makes perfect sense and I think yeah

01:53:10

exactly what I heard there is that often

01:53:12

we when we're two within familiarity

01:53:14

we're not going to get the inspiration

01:53:16

of what might be our passion if we're

01:53:17

searching for it but going to a New York

01:53:19

or

01:53:20

um just getting out into the world and

01:53:21

having experiences can lead us there

01:53:23

yeah Frank thank you so much for your

01:53:25

time today and thank you for doing this

01:53:26

because I I want to say like you um you

01:53:28

are a man of your word now because we're

01:53:30

going to do this last time and you could

01:53:31

have easily not done it but you messaged

01:53:33

me and said I want to get that back on

01:53:34

because I said I would

01:53:35

um and again that's just another example

01:53:37

of you just being a Class Act the whole

01:53:39

process of you counting last time

01:53:40

because you've got the Chelsea job and

01:53:41

then coming back you've just been an

01:53:42

absolute Class Act

01:53:44

um you're a man where no one can

01:53:45

question your your integrity and your

01:53:47

principles and then on top of that I I

01:53:49

see a man who is um incredibly Keen to

01:53:52

work and do well in whatever he applies

01:53:54

himself to and because of that you've

01:53:56

LED this fantastic career both as a

01:53:58

professional football player and as a

01:53:59

manager we're which is I think you're

01:54:01

just halfway through and there's this

01:54:03

whole new season as you get up to you

01:54:05

know 45 years time you're going to be

01:54:07

90. and I'm so excited to watch that

01:54:10

story unfold because of all the wisdom

01:54:11

you've garnered in the last 45 so thank

01:54:13

you for being an inspiration to me for

01:54:15

giving me so many great memories in

01:54:16

football as an England player less so as

01:54:19

a Chelsea player because you guys were

01:54:21

really good

01:54:22

through that that that's that period so

01:54:25

um but it's a real honor to get to know

01:54:26

you and um yeah thank you for all your

01:54:28

wisdom thank you very much thank you

01:54:31

if you've been listening to this podcast

01:54:33

over the last few months you'll know

01:54:35

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01:55:18

foreign

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[Music]

Badges

This episode stands out for the following:

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Most heartbreaking
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Best performance
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Episode Highlights

Reflections on Hindsight
He reflects on the importance of hindsight in understanding past decisions and learning from them.
“Hindsight is like the best thing; it's so simple to think I should have done that.”
@ 04m 50s
July 13, 2023
The Struggle of Overthinking
Overthinking can be a struggle, but it’s part of my makeup.
“If I wasn’t an overthinker, I wouldn’t have got to where I got to.”
@ 17m 05s
July 13, 2023
The Challenge of Management
Transitioning from player to manager is a huge leap, filled with challenges.
“You have to be yourself because you'll get found out.”
@ 28m 41s
July 13, 2023
The Art of Management
There's no one-size-fits-all approach to being a successful manager.
“There’s not a successful blueprint to being a successful manager.”
@ 33m 49s
July 13, 2023
The Pressure of Winning
In the modern world, winning is everything, and the pressure is immense.
“Winning is everything, you know.”
@ 43m 10s
July 13, 2023
Training Standards Matter
To achieve elite performance, teams must maintain high training standards.
“You have to train elite to be elite.”
@ 54m 04s
July 13, 2023
Recruitment Philosophy
Understanding the club's identity is crucial for effective recruitment. 'You have to understand what you want to be.'
“You have to understand what you want to be.”
@ 01h 02m 51s
July 13, 2023
Interim Challenges
Reflecting on the interim role at Chelsea, he acknowledges the difficulties faced. 'It wasn’t my most favorite experience in my footballing career.'
“It wasn’t my most favorite experience in my footballing career.”
@ 01h 09m 46s
July 13, 2023
The Impact of Grief
Frank Lampard shares how losing his mother affected him deeply, describing a year of feeling like a 'zombie'.
“I described myself as being a zombie for a year after the passing of my mother.”
@ 01h 22m 02s
July 13, 2023
A Mother's Influence
Lampard discusses the profound impact his mother had on his life and career, highlighting her nurturing role.
“She was always the one that was like the real stand-up.”
@ 01h 32m 25s
July 13, 2023
Future of Chelsea
There's optimism for Chelsea's future with a new manager focused on unity and development.
“I think there’s a really positive future for the club.”
@ 01h 46m 15s
July 13, 2023
Cultivating Enthusiasm
Exploring how to find true passion and enthusiasm in life.
“Can you suggest a way to cultivate that enthusiasm?”
@ 01h 50m 29s
July 13, 2023

Episode Quotes

Key Moments

Overthinking17:05
Imposter Syndrome24:36
Management Challenges28:41
Declining Standards51:14
Training Standards54:04
Recruitment Strategy1:02:51
Interim Management1:09:46
Therapeutic Reflection1:33:48

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Vibes Breakdown

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