00:00:00
It was an intense time. We had to win football games, but all the rest was on my plate as well. I need a break. And
00:00:06
you cannot do that in that business. You cannot say, "Give me a year. See you later." So, it begs the question, do you
00:00:12
think you could ever go back and manage Liverpool again?
00:00:18
It's possible. So, what would it take?
00:00:24
Yeah, you change a club, you change the city, and you arrived at a time when clubs were in a period of dysfunction to
00:00:29
bring that club back to its glory. And you do that over and over and over again. How to win in a very decisive
00:00:36
moment, you have to be the best team. And to be the best team, everybody has to buy into that team and walk through
00:00:42
fire together. How do I get people to walk through fire? I better go back to the start. Growing up, my mom was very
00:00:49
caring. She loved people and my dad had expectations. The problem was I was absolutely useless in most of the
00:00:55
things. Even with football, my teammates were better than me and I thought I only can get on that level from the first
00:01:01
until last minute. I was a warrior on the pitch. But it made me the guy I am today. And so my team plays a little bit
00:01:08
more like a heavy metal band because you have 90 minutes and there's no guarantee to get anything but the only chance to
00:01:14
get something is to give your all. So you want to have the maximum success. Don't waste time with holding back. I
00:01:21
want to know why Manchester United didn't. No, they tried but there are some reasons in that conversation which I
00:01:27
didn't like. Arie slot coming in after you and didn't change much. That's super smart. Not changing much
00:01:32
and all of a sudden you win the league by some distance. But this year Liverpool have spent what 450 odd million. You never had a
00:01:38
transfer window like that. Nobody ever told me that it's possible that we can spend that. You seem to always be successful. How
00:01:46
does someone succeed you? You want to be able to become the best team in England? you need to
00:01:53
[Applause] [Music]
00:01:59
I see messages all the time in the comment section that some of you didn't realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you
00:02:05
could do me a favor and double check if you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing
00:02:11
that anybody that watches this show frequently can do to help us here to keep everything going in this show in the trajectory it's on. So, please do
00:02:17
double check if you've subscribed and uh thank you so much because a strange way you are you're part of our history and
00:02:23
you're on this journey with us and I appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you [Music]
00:02:30
Den to understand you and the man and the anomaly that you went on to be in your career and still are. What do I
00:02:38
need to understand about your very earliest context where you came from and
00:02:44
how can you point out to me how that very early context created the person you are today and that everybody knows
00:02:50
you to be. I think we all are who we are because the environment we we grew up. My dad
00:02:58
was a salesman and my mom came from a family and my grandpa had a brewery and
00:03:04
she worked there blah blah blah and all this kind of things. So, but her only purpose was her kids. She loved me more
00:03:12
than her own life definitely. And my dad had expectations. He loved me as well,
00:03:17
but he had expectations where my mom didn't. So, my mom was just happy that I was there and my dad had always
00:03:22
something um where he was not really happy with. And all the things my dad wanted me to do, I love doing. So, he
00:03:31
wanted me to to to to be a sports guy. each sport, tennis, skiing, football,
00:03:37
that was his life. So he wanted that his son is good at that and he loved doing
00:03:42
it. If I would have been, I don't know, sitting at home and and drawing or whatever, he would every day take me out
00:03:48
and say, "Go outside and and and play something." But then pretty quick when I
00:03:53
became better, it was never good enough. And he always So that was the process. So that's how I was brought up. That's
00:04:00
him. That's definitely Yeah. Can I keep these pictures? Of course you
00:04:06
can keep. That's good. That's good because I have them, but I'm not sure where. Yeah, exactly.
00:04:13
Good looking guy. Yeah. Was he a tough tough man? Yeah.
00:04:18
I It's not long ago. I never I never got hit by whatever. Never. Never. Never. He
00:04:24
was just He wanted to to bring the best out of me. I think that was what he wanted. Tough in a way. Yeah. how people
00:04:31
who are brought up in in that time probably but not tough endless that you
00:04:36
thought I do you don't want to have to do anything with him no I loved him to bits and he loved me he was very proud
00:04:42
but never never said it and these kind of things so was he was a good guy a
00:04:47
real good guy but with his son he wanted him to be ambitious and was a bit afraid
00:04:53
that I might be not ambitious enough so competitive man I hear yeah yeah yeah
00:04:58
so reading about stories of um him racing you on ski slopes and and sprint
00:05:04
races and never letting you win. That's true. Who knows if it was right. Probably it was right. I I don't know.
00:05:10
It was not nice in a way. When you tell the story, it's like my god, come on, let the poor boy win or whatever. But you had no chance. It's just you stand
00:05:16
on the touch line and you run to the halfway line. And when you when you look back over the the course of your career,
00:05:24
are there moments where you have flashback to lessons that he taught you or principles or values that he taught you that you think, gosh, I got that
00:05:31
from my dad? The one skill I I realized that my dad had without
00:05:37
knowing that time. It was a skill he could speak publicly. You don't know that you have that, but I have it. You
00:05:44
today I know it. I I don't care if a camera is in my face or whatever. I say what I have to say in that moment um
00:05:51
without being too worried what might people think about it if I'm convinced it's right and I I say talking in public
00:05:58
is not a problem it's probably from him my law for people
00:06:04
unintentionally that's from my mom so this mix of a very confident and a very
00:06:10
caring very confident dad and very caring mom
00:06:15
is where I was brought up in the middle of And you wanted to be a doctor before before then. So you were aiming to be a
00:06:21
doctor. That didn't work out. Yeah, that's true. Why? Why? Why doctor?
00:06:27
No, it was always it was something I wanted to do. So in all this wonderful upbringing, it was pretty clear that
00:06:35
money is an issue. Not in a sense that we didn't have enough. We always had kind of enough. But I remember
00:06:41
discussions, bad discussions about money, arguments if you want, who spent that, who spent that. I was a little
00:06:47
one. I just sat around and listened to it. But there was a moment in my life when I when I realized I have to earn a
00:06:53
lot of money that I can sort it all. I want to earn money to not having this
00:06:59
kind of discussions with my wife or with the kids or
00:07:04
whatever. So it grew as a as a as a thought when you are a young man and you think what could you do with life and
00:07:10
for me it was clear I cannot earn my money with football because in my mind I wasn't good enough and then I got
00:07:17
surprised by some people they thought oh there's something um that could be
00:07:23
interesting. What did they see in you as a football player? What was it that they they saw
00:07:29
in you as a young man? cuz I've got all these wonderful photos of you as a young player and
00:07:34
oh my god. So in my village I was the best player
00:07:40
in my village. So I scored the goals. I was the fastest. All this kind this physical talent. I was really fast.
00:07:45
Later on when I studied sport science I could jump far. I could jump high. All these kind of things. So it was a
00:07:50
physical talent. I was literally surprised by the approach from from
00:07:56
professional football clubs. I didn't think who's coming. So it was like the question was are you number seven from
00:08:03
the game before? Yeah. Oh come on let's have a chat. Do you want to come to Frankfurt? That was the question. It was
00:08:09
before that was 80 87. And you were 20 years old at the time
00:08:15
when you went to Frankfurt. Yeah. Well I mean a lot happens in your 20th year of life. Yeah. A lot happens.
00:08:20
There was a change. Wow. Yeah. I came to Frankfurt.
00:08:26
I it didn't take long that I met Mark's mom.
00:08:31
Yeah. Your son's mom. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And then um she got pregnant and um December 88 I became a
00:08:41
father. Were you scared? 20 years old become a father massively. When I heard she's pregnant I
00:08:48
was I wanted to run away go oh god it's not me.
00:08:53
So the moment when I when I got aware of the fact that I will be a dad, I was really scared. The night 13th December
00:09:01
of December 1988 when Mark was born was the night when I became an adult and the
00:09:08
night who changed my life in the right direction. From that moment
00:09:14
on, I was always more an adult than all the other people in the in my age group. So they were the
00:09:22
university, they were on parties, I couldn't go. They went on holiday. I couldn't I played football, low wages,
00:09:28
third division Germany. Had two other jobs, one in the morning, one at night.
00:09:33
Um and and playing semi-professional football. That taught me the discipline.
00:09:39
I didn't have to learn at home because I had no no jobs to do in the house. So I
00:09:46
got it a bit later but um it made me the guy I am today. Because of that experience when you
00:09:52
became a manager yourself did that become a bit of a personal reference
00:09:57
point to understand the individuals that you were managing? Because if you were managing a 21-year-old dad versus a
00:10:05
21-year-old that didn't have kids, did you understand them to be different?
00:10:11
M one is in your, you know, in your own words, one is potentially a man and an adult and one doesn't know what that is
00:10:17
yet. Yes, of course. I I I don't, but I say I like people and I'm super curious. Everybody has a story to tell, so I want
00:10:24
to hear it. I think I think I asked that question in part cuz I heard stories that Sir Alex Ferguson would prefer players who had a
00:10:30
girlfriend or a wife and kids. Yeah. And I was I was wondering if there's any
00:10:35
truth to that, if they have a different stability or Oh, it's probably Yeah.
00:10:41
There are couple problems you can you can have a great partner married or not
00:10:46
and then everything is fine. It's the wrong partner it's not great. You have no partner not great for some and you
00:10:52
have too many it's not great. So there are so many things in life. So I haven't never I never thought about that. I
00:10:59
heard about it at coaches Germany very successful manager Oreleer I love him to bits fantastic guy. he had as well, I
00:11:06
think he said it once as well that he wants um married players because they go
00:11:12
home and stuff like this. Yeah, that's not that's one part of of the
00:11:18
personality but not the overwhelming or the the most decisive or whatever. So, it's like and you need on the football
00:11:25
is a football game. You need the cheeky the cheeky ones as well. So you need them the one who the street smart you
00:11:32
need as well they get out of situations in life and on the pitch stuff like
00:11:37
this. So it's a mix of everything. That's what I loved about football teams. I I treated them
00:11:44
let me say 50% of the time completely the same and 50% what he needs what he
00:11:50
needs what he needs but in front of the other teammates. So people, players came to me, why do
00:11:57
you um treat me like that? You would have ne would never say that to him. No, because he's from Argentina, grew up
00:12:03
without a window and you are from Munich and everything was fine. You want me to treat you like him? Really? To bring all
00:12:11
these people from different areas in the world together, you cannot expect that they all tick the same way. It's just
00:12:18
not possible. Growing up in Germany is obviously different to growing up in
00:12:24
Seneagal. It is different. So, but then we come together in dressing room and then everybody says, "So, this is the
00:12:29
rule for all of you." And yeah, be in time of course for all easy. But then
00:12:35
all the other stuff, come on, calm down. You want a um a football team
00:12:42
full of different skill sets, full of different talent, full of different personality. want that
00:12:48
because that's what you need. That what makes you unpredictable. But then you put just one I don't know helmet over it
00:12:54
and say so that's for all of you. That's how we go. There are moments in the game where they have to act like that. In all
00:13:00
the other in all the other moments they have to be themselves. So treat them like that. This is one of the most
00:13:07
shocking, counterintuitive um ideas that I've that that I heard
00:13:14
from players with other managers specifically cuz I've just interviewed so many of Sar Alex Ferguson's former
00:13:19
players. One of the shocking things they all said was that he treated people differently. And to hear you say the same thing as well, it it it really is
00:13:26
the opposite of what you hear in business. In business, you hear that you have to be a consistent leader, that you have to be consistent, treat people the
00:13:32
same. Um but in the world of football people like you tell me that's
00:13:38
I think I think in business in life it's the same. So to lead that's one number one thing you
00:13:44
lead yourself so that's the first one in the morning you stand up you have to kick your own but say come on it's not
00:13:50
the greatest day but anyhow we go and then then the people you lead you need
00:13:56
to understand to do it properly. So now that means you you you talk to them, you listen to them, you ask them where are
00:14:03
you from, what's your background, what are we doing here and there blah blah and why did you that and stuff like this. So it means it's already in that
00:14:09
conversation it's clear he's different to the other guy. It's not about the rules like punctuality
00:14:18
early in late out not about these kind of things but how can we get the best out of people if you treat them all the same? It's it's crazy. It's in business.
00:14:24
I I don't think it is like that, but I've never I only worked in this football business. Or maybe it's just working here. I cannot see that. For me,
00:14:31
it's super important that you really pick the individual from where it stands, not from where you want it to
00:14:38
be. No, actually where it actually is. Can you give me an example that I would know of two people that you treated
00:14:45
differently and why you made the decision to treat them differently based on their origin?
00:14:50
So, you have a young player as an example. So you trend Alexan Allen comes up to the first team. So and then you
00:14:57
and James Milner is already I don't know 31 or whatever how oldever he was that
00:15:02
time. So you James makes clear first and foremost that trend doesn't go crazy. So
00:15:09
because he sorts all these kind of things but there are so many things where just as an example but James
00:15:15
doesn't have to do this and that because you know he is doing it anyway. So for for trend you still have to educate the
00:15:20
boy. this example which you probably didn't think of but it explains how how different they are. There are different
00:15:26
age groups. One is 16 or 17 and the other one is 33. So that shows already that's not possible.
00:15:32
So you are talking about the rules in football. So everybody has to work hard. Everybody has to do in my kid everybody
00:15:39
has to defend the out of the opposition team. So
00:15:45
that's everybody has to buy into that. There's no no no. I always said if if
00:15:51
you're not Leon Messi, you have to defend. You have you have to defend. So
00:15:56
because I never had Leo Messi, so they all had to defend for everybody has to do that. But then to get there that that
00:16:02
they that they really grow together as a group
00:16:08
in a group everybody except that they are different otherwise we are I don't know an army and and they are different
00:16:13
but it's not I mean just because we wear the same shirt we have all our own qualities. So and to that to bring them
00:16:21
to life or let them shine. Yeah. You have to be to have to get treated in the right way. And that's what what I loved
00:16:28
to figure out how is that how is that possible? That was the conversations I had the conversation with players during
00:16:34
a season. Of course there were football talks but we had already enough meetings. The the most important
00:16:41
conversations were the private conversations. Why are so when when the play is not training well
00:16:48
could be could that he just is not ready for training had a drink last night didn't sleep enough or you ask so that's
00:16:56
all what you think he looks like he didn't sleep enough blah blah blah bring him in ask him what's going on and he
00:17:02
will be surprised most of the time they either slept enough or didn't sleep
00:17:08
enough for the right reason because something happened and nobody could sleep they had no drink blah blah blah
00:17:14
but they lost focus right now because massive problems at home you without asking you will never find out so here's
00:17:20
one guy with problem here's another guy he's flying don't treat them the same so one needs more support and the other
00:17:27
one you need to bring down a little bit so all these kind that's how you work with people in the end what you want is
00:17:33
that the job of a leader is to make the target the aim the final destination
00:17:38
whatever that clear like the sun that everybody's automatically going there and you don't have to push
00:17:45
them every day and say by the way there's the sign that's around there so that that they know it on the way there
00:17:51
you support them in different in different ways it's not so important what I want to say
00:17:57
in a moment of anger or whatever it happens emotion do that to us especially
00:18:03
around a football game you shout something did I really say that did I did I I did that but it's not so
00:18:10
important in a talk conversation with people they which depend on you, you are responsible for it's not so important
00:18:15
what you say it's much more important what they need to hear it's not them telling them what they want to hear no
00:18:20
what they need to hear to deal with their situation so that's what leadership means not just telling them
00:18:28
off for whatever that doesn't work that doesn't work try to understand why and that was I I love that part in my job
00:18:37
and I still do that if you want um right now not with world class players all the
00:18:43
time or coaches, point directors, whatever. They're all young um younger than me at least. And um that's how I
00:18:50
understand my role and understood my role. Was there certain players in your team that you felt you could be tougher with
00:18:58
and others that you felt you could never really be tough with because that would make that would hurt their performance.
00:19:05
I'm reflecting. Yeah. Of of course of course you have the Sadio Mani and and and Mosala are
00:19:11
two top examples. So in the end there are not a lot of people
00:19:17
who saw it coming. We knew they are great. We knew they are massive talents. They have fantastic potential but they
00:19:23
were not who they became later on in that time. It's not that they came to
00:19:29
Liverpool and said boss just want to tell you I defend anyway so we don't
00:19:34
have to talk about that. Just explain me how we do it. And we obviously to to be successful as a football team you have
00:19:40
to organize a football team to get stability. To get stability you need to find a way to defend properly and
00:19:47
together. If you have that based on that they can start flying then we then let's talk about the football part. So and now
00:19:54
there are obviously no defenders but we were famous for our pressing and counter pressing. I talked a lot to them and it
00:20:00
was and the the way we spoke about it was just 100% clear. You want to win
00:20:07
more often than not. You want to have the maximum success. You want to be able to become the best team in England at
00:20:14
one point. Yeah. Okay then do that. Come on. So agreement and then from there we
00:20:20
went on but then with years and not because they changed or whatever here a little bit less there a little bit less
00:20:26
and I have to decide do I go for them like I would go for a young boy playing in that position and say come on
00:20:34
turn run fight jump and take them off in a moment over no of course not you don't
00:20:40
do that in that moment it's a it's a story in the newspaper we had this one argument I think with Mo at Westam at at
00:20:47
the sideline when it didn't start and I brought him on and he was not happy. The problem our problems then are always in
00:20:53
public. That was not real big thing but in the moment we didn't agree definitely.
00:20:59
So um how do you deal with that the next day I I think I can say um we have a
00:21:06
very good relationship today um even though on that day it didn't look like and that's all the things. So you learn
00:21:13
you try to do it the right way. You try to show the players respect but at one point it's never enough and you have to
00:21:20
accept that as well because the players they grow they get bigger
00:21:25
and bigger and bigger and at one point you hear years later he never spoke to me whatever another player from wherever
00:21:33
says about a former coach about me about Mourinho he never spoke to me
00:21:39
I know we spoke a lot we just can't remember and we didn't speak what you wanted or we And I didn't tell you what
00:21:45
you wanted to hear. So you can never make it 100% right. But you can only do
00:21:51
as good as you as it's possible for you. And that's what I tried all the time to create a relationship where even when we
00:21:59
had arguments, we always found a way out as me player and it never um got carried
00:22:08
into the team that I lost respect, they lost respect for me because I acted that way. is we always stayed together. We
00:22:16
always find a way that they understood, okay, it's really important that we get through this, that they sort it, the
00:22:22
boss sort it with him or the boss sorts it with us, that we can go from here
00:22:27
again. From a very young age, one of the things I found really surprising is in as I was going through all of these football
00:22:33
teams you played in as a young man, it appeared that you were always the captain, repeatedly assigned to be the
00:22:40
captain. And I wondered why. What was it that you were doing from a very young age that meant all of your coaches back
00:22:45
then asked you to be captain of the team? I have no clue. The coach I learned the most of Alfkang Frank um when he came
00:22:53
back to mines, he was at Mines very successful spell left and then we were
00:22:58
in trouble again. He came back and I was the captain and we had a very experienced player from a first division
00:23:04
team coming to mind in the second division. Lmid was his name. So and Wolf Gang
00:23:10
Y can we talk? Yeah, of course. I want to make last the captain. Oh,
00:23:16
yeah. Good. So then you are not captain. Yeah, I know. So it was exactly like
00:23:22
that. It meant nothing to me. So my role was not I was a leader in the team. Not
00:23:29
on purpose. I was on the pitch an aggressive leader which I didn't like. So heart rate above 140, I lost it very
00:23:37
often in a very very not a good way. So really aggressive talk,
00:23:44
shouting at everybody and in all that really was I had to very often I had to
00:23:49
apologize to my teammates. Where did that come from? Because you're I don't I don't know.
00:23:55
There's a real dichotomy with you because you're such a sweet, kind guy. You have your mother in you in terms of
00:24:02
the empathy and the love of people, but then there's this other explosive part.
00:24:07
I didn't like it at all. And I was afraid when I stopped playing that it
00:24:12
that I'd take it over. So I was emotional. I was had moments where I lost it with referees and stuff like
00:24:17
that. But generally I'm I was really I'm I'm a very calm person. So people think
00:24:23
because I'm probably I think I'm a motivator or whatever. I do get up in the morning and come in the dressing room and say come on boys today we go
00:24:30
again. Not at all. I mean it happens from time to time but not that often. No
00:24:36
I have no explanation for it. If I would have had an explanation, it was a little bit I knew I'm not good enough.
00:24:42
Actually, my my teammates were better than me. And I thought I only can get on
00:24:50
that level if I squeeze everything out on from an aggressive point of view,
00:24:55
stuff like this. So that was a bit my explanation because they are so much better. But if I calm down and want to
00:25:02
play cool football, yeah, I'm out. You eventually become the manager of mines. Yeah, you're my age when you get
00:25:09
that job and the the former manager's been sacked. The club have never gotten to the Bundesliga, the the first
00:25:16
division in Germany. You don't have experience managing a
00:25:22
club of this size or scale previously. The chairman comes to you, the owner comes to you and says they want you to
00:25:28
do the job. Why did they want you to do the job? Because I didn't find anybody else in the short in a short period of time. So,
00:25:34
we played Sunday and the next game was on Wednesday. The idea was just to do that game. So the the the the whole
00:25:41
story is that Ekat Gson um the manager at that time he we we lost the game on
00:25:47
Sunday and we had a little camp a crisis camp let me say because on Wednesday was
00:25:53
another very important game we had to play. So he took us to a hotel that we stay there have two good sessions and
00:25:59
then we go for this very very important and maybe decisive game. And at night we have a meeting. have a meeting with all
00:26:07
players and he said no gentlemen I want I want only to ask one question I do you still trust me are you still behind me I
00:26:14
don't want to answer now I order beer for all of you I go out half an hour I come back and you tell me
00:26:21
so he goes out where he just brings the beer in we sit there look at each other and think h
00:26:28
and discuss a little bit and I was not captain that time yeah I was not the captain so but then it's like at that
00:26:36
uh the decisions. No. What? Yeah. He asked. Why you ask? Yeah. No.
00:26:41
So, and it's like we are now we have a discussion. Yeah. The majority some people some players didn't speak but the
00:26:48
it was clear if you ask the answer is no. So, it's like that. I'm not captain but
00:26:54
the captain says global you tell him. I tell him why. Oh, okay. But he comes
00:27:02
in. He comes in and and I said
00:27:08
actually no and he was shocked. He was really shocked. I was like he didn't
00:27:14
expect it. It's more like a a little thing to do and then we say yes we go through that together something like
00:27:20
that. But we said no. Why? Because he was not the right person. He was
00:27:25
because he we we played bad and we he was I love echard cson but that time for
00:27:32
that team was really he was just not the right coach that can happen doesn't say anything about you but we did we wrong
00:27:39
training wrong lineups wrong tactics wrong everything. So that's how things
00:27:44
go bad in the wrong direction in that time and we had no that time and we
00:27:50
didn't have to make the decision yeah who can take over or whatever we just could say no we we he we could have said
00:27:55
okay I will prove you wrong or whatever but he ran out and said tomorrow morning 9:00 training
00:28:02
okay and then he wanted to do a press conference where he wanted to tell the
00:28:08
public that he kicks out all the experienced players and starts now the
00:28:13
rest of the season and plays only the young kid. Though I was one of the old players, I was 33. Um, but I didn't know
00:28:21
that that should happen. So, he called the sporting director. We need a press conference and I want to talk to them
00:28:27
and tell them we change everything. And the sporting director says, "Yeah, we do a press conference, but the subject will
00:28:34
be we sack you." Okay. So, done. And now they didn't have
00:28:39
a coach. So and then they called me and for that game can you do it and I said yeah yeah I can do it and I did it and
00:28:47
we won the game and they didn't find a manager so we had Sunday and other games we the first game we won 1 nil the
00:28:53
second game we won 3-1 yeah from the first seven games we won six and Drew won so and we stayed in the
00:29:00
league pretty comfortably comfortably is incredible we were a bunch of friends I they were all my friends and I was their
00:29:06
boss they had to tell me that I changed from now on in the coach's dressing room. But what are you doing here?
00:29:13
Here's the coach's That's your office. Okay. The first night we had a twin
00:29:19
room. Yeah. So, and I got one more game to sleep there with my friend you and Kney there
00:29:25
in in the same room. And then next day they all told me, "Yeah, you have you got your own room." Oh, okay. So, but
00:29:31
all the rest we were a real bunch of of friends and they respected me from day
00:29:36
from the first second. What was your approach going into that? you you go from being a player to a manager of these boys like what what
00:29:43
what's in your mind are you thinking I'm just going to let them do whatever they want to do I'm gonna but we had wang very very the best the
00:29:49
best manager we all had when we were at mines she was exceptional we at mines we
00:29:55
were a football team who lost all the games when the other team had better players
00:30:01
I think sounds normal but you know in football is a way to to win games anyway we never had that so comes in implements
00:30:09
four in the back, ball orientated defending. We did nothing else than that. And we changed overnight
00:30:16
into the one opponent nobody wanted to play against. We were like machines. We were like machine. We are not great
00:30:22
football. We were like machines. There were games our goalkeeper didn't touch the ball once. We were just defending.
00:30:29
It was new that time. So it was really for all of them. That means we all became believer in that. Then Wolfkang
00:30:35
left and none of the other coaches could do that. None. There was no connection
00:30:41
to the coaches after Wolffrang. Mhm. So I was one of the players who benefited massively from Wolffkang Frank
00:30:48
and now I arrived and the only thing I did when I the two sessions I had were both exactly about that 44 for two ball
00:30:55
orientated movements and we go for MSV Ducebook that time there were third in
00:31:00
the table. We go for them like nobody else. But I like these moments. I like
00:31:06
to find a reason why it makes sense that why we give our absolute all in a moment
00:31:12
like this. Why we don't invest only the the minimum? Why invest the maximum?
00:31:19
Why we would regret it if we don't do it? How better life is if we do it? How much more fun it is if we do it. I love
00:31:25
I love these moments and probably something like that. I told them and
00:31:32
from that moment on nobody wanted to play against us anymore. So like we were like wow animals. It was great. It was a
00:31:39
fantastic time. Same team um pretty much
00:31:45
uh changed overnight. So you fixed the defensive situation, the formation and you also told the
00:31:53
players in that dressing room a story of why we had to give this give everything.
00:32:00
showed the they they wrote us off show the outside world whatever you can do most of the time it was real life but
00:32:05
that time so in my meetings later on I never prepared in a way that I wrote something down or whatever
00:32:13
our life was preparation what happened during the week with us in the world but that was preparation for meeting I never
00:32:19
thought long about it just remembered that when I when I needed it we spoke I I told the boys but that time they
00:32:26
needed one person to believe in them and I did. It was not that I had to convince
00:32:32
myself. I have to tell them now before that season I told in an interview this
00:32:38
is the best squad Mson ever had. It would be really difficult for me to play
00:32:44
but good for us that the team is so good and then we were in an
00:32:50
hopeless situation before I took over. So I when I became the manager I was the
00:32:56
one who thought this team is incredible. Nobody knows it yet but we will make
00:33:01
sure in a few weeks they will have a sense at least. How important did that prove to be this
00:33:08
idea of making sure that the players you have throughout your career had belief in themselves?
00:33:13
That's all it's all about that. It's not football. It's life.
00:33:18
You had no when you started your podcast you people probably told you well that might be something for you but you were
00:33:25
not sure and then with each little thing here and there. Oh how many people listen to your first podcast?
00:33:32
Do you remember? No no no I think I read it somewhere 40 something around that was under 100.
00:33:38
Yeah. So it's a start. So it's a start and and all the rest is if you want history and
00:33:44
that's always in life like that that it's just give it a chance
00:33:49
of course it makes sense you believe in yourself but not everybody can do that. So if but then if you meet somebody who
00:33:56
helps you with that who has a perspective who can see something in you yeah then tell tell them why you should
00:34:04
keep it for yourself. Oh my god I think he's a talent she's a talent whatever she's good at that he's good at that.
00:34:09
Yeah. Why we don't tell each other? So where's the problem? Did someone do that for you?
00:34:16
Told you that you should believe in yourself. They saw something in you. Once I said I never struggled with confidence, but I don't know why. That's
00:34:23
the truth. But it's true. I never struggled with confidence. There's no reason for it. My two best friends in
00:34:29
school were genius. And we sat together doing exactly the reading the same
00:34:35
books. Did invested the same amount of time. They had the best A levels in school and I was far off that. So a
00:34:42
normal reaction would be I'm a dump obviously
00:34:48
but I never thought that and I don't really know why why why that happened. So um I took it how it was. I thought oh
00:34:54
respect you you can remember all these things. Crazy. I can't but you had lots of players that
00:35:01
struggled with confidence. Yeah. Yeah. I try to create a situation
00:35:06
to make sure that the player if if they are not confident
00:35:12
yet they are confident but you know there are moments when they lose it confidence is like described it once as
00:35:19
a little flower and constantly somebody steps on it it's like that oh and then it's growing again and oh now we are
00:35:25
confident again stuff like this in football it's really difficult because it's like you cannot play without making
00:35:30
mistakes so if a mistake costs you confident And that's a re a real challenge. Um but
00:35:37
what I try to if you would believe as much in yourself
00:35:42
as I do that will be a start. But as long as you cannot do that just
00:35:48
trust me. So you are good because I don't work with not with other I don't
00:35:54
waste time. I don't that's what and it's true. I don't. So, I really I really see
00:36:01
something and if I see it, I'm patient enough to work on it. Um much more patient than the public wants me to be.
00:36:08
But of course, the the idea is that that one day I help you learn flying, but in the end,
00:36:14
you have to fly yourself. Obviously, I cannot I cannot do that for you. That's what it is football. You have to perform
00:36:21
alone. They cannot look at me. What shall I do? And that's my job is to prepare them as good to make it the
00:36:28
education the co the coaching as as wide as they just pick for me. That's the
00:36:34
idea but not too much as well. It's yeah it's obviously was a good time in my
00:36:41
life doing all these kind of things. I I I worked with some of the best footballers in the world. Um really good
00:36:48
time. Do you sometimes have to lie in public to protect a player's confidence?
00:36:54
I was wonder I wonder this because you see managers come out and say, "Oh, he can't play because he's injured or whatever." And they they say things, but
00:37:00
I wonder sometimes if managers are protecting players because they're struggling or Yes, we protect players. I'm not sure I
00:37:07
ever had to lie to be 100% honest. I don't know. But we protect players. Super important. So for me, super
00:37:13
important. Um he lacks confidence. That's in football obvious you see that you run oneon-one
00:37:20
on a goalie and you don't make it you can see it it's because you don't have confidence that's that's how it is
00:37:25
there's not a lot of other reasons it can be wind weather ball opponent it's there but you do it once you do it twice
00:37:31
three time yes that's like that's not good for the confidence of nobody having that in training you you have the job is
00:37:38
not to talk too much about to give him a chance to get confidence back with the things you do in training that it
00:37:45
doesn't last forever Well, um the one thing you have to protect players from
00:37:50
is public try to because they are ruthless in
00:37:56
moments. They don't care until something happens or whatever. Supporters sometimes I think we were really lucky
00:38:03
with that. We created that bond between the supporters and the team that they
00:38:08
were not angry disappointed yes but not angry in a way that I don't want to see them anymore. So that helped. But of
00:38:15
course you have to protect them sometimes. You have to protect them sometimes from themselves as well. So
00:38:21
that's the job. Did you have to involve yourself much with social media usage of your team members? And did you did you ever
00:38:28
consider someone's social media usage when you were considering signing them to join the club? Cuz I think this now
00:38:34
as a Manchester United fan, I think some of when some of our players are posting on social media little indirect messages
00:38:39
and little emojis and commenting things, I just think, "Oh god, troublemaker.
00:38:45
We had situation that players text us or or posted something at night
00:38:51
and deleted it, but I still got aware of it. Mhm. So, not that I read it, but people tell me, "Oh, last night this and that
00:38:57
happened when 3:00." 3:00. Okay. What do you say? This and that.
00:39:05
Oh, what I do in these situations, even deleted, I go in the dressing room and they all last night this and this
00:39:12
happened. uh got deleted. I know what's there, but maybe you want to tell
00:39:18
everybody. You would ask him to say in front of everybody. Yeah,
00:39:23
that's nice. Eh, no. The the thing is I didn't I don't go for him and tell him
00:39:28
how can you write that or whatever. So I said, "Come on, I I somebody told me so I know it." Ah,
00:39:36
not important really, but come on, tell the whole team what he wanted to say. and they start
00:39:43
it's not great in that situation that I don't like to bring people in that but I think that's a deserved punishment for
00:39:49
something like that but actually the effect is nobody ever did it again
00:39:57
because nobody wants to be in that situation in a dressing room sitting there and be the one who has to explain
00:40:02
something he did last night or whatever I discussed individual problems if it
00:40:09
was Okay. Quiet in front of the team if it was important for the team. Yeah.
00:40:15
Come on. Explain why you did that. Why you went out that long? What happened in
00:40:20
the last two hours? This photo here is of things going well
00:40:26
for you. Yeah. Minds before I had
00:40:32
that to get here. We we that's these are tears. The tears the year and two years
00:40:38
before were not for the same reason. So you probably know we didn't get promoted for a point then a goal. First a goal.
00:40:45
First a point then a goal and then this happened. That was the first day when it really went well.
00:40:50
So this was the day that you were mind promoted for the first time in their history to the Bundesliga.
00:40:56
Yeah. But before winning that I I learned how to lose. This is very
00:41:03
important. I would say I think that's again to learn
00:41:08
even though you want to be as successful as somehow possible
00:41:15
you have to accept that from time to time you lose and then keep then when you then keep going you have a good
00:41:21
chance if you learn from it a defeat is a defeat if you don't learn from it if you learn from it it's a very very
00:41:27
important information and obviously in football we have a lot of opportunities to get did and opportunity to learn from
00:41:35
it. But this was the biggest relief in my life. Not happiness that I was
00:41:43
just that's pure relief. The pressure was mounting. I was crazy. Not only on
00:41:50
myself, nobody not from outside. I don't know even know what the outside world thought. But to make it happen that
00:41:57
year, that was really special. But it took two years of
00:42:03
coming close. Yeah. And dealing with the disappointment. Yeah. True. When I spoke to Jamie Carrager, I I
00:42:09
asked Jamie Carrager actually this earlier this morning. I said I said to him, you know, what what was he curious
00:42:15
about with you? And this is actually what he said. He said there were so many near misses in your career, whether it
00:42:20
was in the Champions League or I remember when you were headto-head with Man City that in that season and you were one point shy of winning the
00:42:27
league. And his question was, he's fascinated with how you you were so good
00:42:33
at dealing with the disappointment of near misses because sometimes near misses can people. They can turn
00:42:39
them into a downward spiral. It can be like the plant that got stood on. It can crush someone's confidence. But it
00:42:44
appears through your career that near misses ended up being positive forces
00:42:50
for you. It's not that I knew that always but
00:42:57
what may we spoke about very early but what made me the person I am these people of course mom dad
00:43:04
my faith as well so and I I knew
00:43:10
always that I'm not here to get everything I am here to give everything
00:43:16
so that doesn't help in a moment when you when you when you fail for a point
00:43:23
But in the general understanding as a person of course it helps. So I'm not surprised that I fail. I don't I don't
00:43:31
think I don't see myself as a constant winner in my in my mind. I see myself as
00:43:38
a constant tryer. So I don't know constant winners but there might be some out there. But I I just can't imagine a
00:43:47
world where it would be like that. all all the people running around there, the all the the happy people, they win all
00:43:54
the time. Nobody wins all the time. Nobody does. So, it's all about dealing with the things you want and not get and
00:44:01
then you want it more and or or not anymore or whatever. So, the moments
00:44:06
were not great, but I learned it here. Doing it that day changed
00:44:11
the the destiny of the club of M. That's how it is. My destiny, the players destiny changed everything. So, we
00:44:18
wanted it that hard, but we learned before we have to try harder. And that's
00:44:23
what I always took. If you don't get the result you want,
00:44:28
try again and try harder. It was Christian that gave you that job,
00:44:34
wasn't it? Yeah. Mr. Hyel. Christian H Highle. I um I spoke to
00:44:39
Christian Hyel. He made a His English is very funny, isn't it? Yeah. I've had I've had to I'm going to
00:44:45
translate it for the viewers, but I'm going to actually play what he said to you in in German. Oh, of course. So you can hear it.
00:44:52
Here we go. Global. Yes, dear Global. We've known each other for exactly 35 years now. First, we were
00:45:00
both players. Then you subsequently became my esteemed coach. It all started in Mitz. You changed an entire club. You
00:45:07
changed an entire city. Back then, we were promoted to the Bundesliga together. And today, Mines has been in
00:45:13
the Bundesliga for over 25 years. Back then, that was actually unimaginable. You go to Dortmund, change your club,
00:45:19
change an entire city, and win every title there is to win. You move to Liverpool and the same thing happens for
00:45:25
the third time. You change your club, you change your city. I don't think any coach before you has ever achieved that.
00:45:31
And I'm always asked, "What makes Jurgen Klopp special?" To this day, he has simply remained a genuine person, always
00:45:38
authentic, which is incredibly important. apart from the fact that you are of course an outstanding expert. I
00:45:44
hope we'll see each other again soon on our little shared island in Mayorca. Um, and have a great day and lots of fun
00:45:50
with your podcast. Wow. You know, yeah,
00:45:56
I told you you changed a club. You changed the city. Yeah. You did that over and over and over
00:46:02
again. You went on and did that again at Dortmund. um winning a huge range of
00:46:07
awards there at a time when they were weren't considered to be hopeful and
00:46:13
then you went off to Liverpool and did the same. And as you I was reading about how when you traveled to Liverpool there
00:46:18
was 30,000 Liverpool fans watching your plane fly across um the channel to Liverpool because
00:46:24
they're all very excited. And you arrived at a time when they were in a a period of dysfunction, kind of similar
00:46:29
to where Manchester United are now, I guess. Yeah. And you managed to bring them up from being a team that were dysfunctional,
00:46:36
hadn't won. There was a lot of pessimism around the club. I think as a Man United fan, I was hoping and wondering that if
00:46:41
Liverpool would ever come back, I was hoping they would never come back again, but you brought them back annoyingly.
00:46:46
When you when you arrived at Liverpool that day, you said in that press conference that you're the normal one. I
00:46:52
remember that. What what did you observe when you arrived? What was the culture? What was
00:46:58
the feeling? And what was your first thought about what you had to do to to bring that club back to its glory?
00:47:03
The feeling I got I had roughly a week to to think about everything from the from the first call to the signature. I
00:47:12
think did you have other offers from other clubs? Oh, in that moment not. But in the summer I had a lot of offers like before
00:47:18
when I when I finished at at Dortmund. Um but in that moment it was just Liverpool but it was kind of destiny
00:47:25
because I didn't want to it was not we were on a family holiday in Lisa with the with the two boys and I sitting
00:47:32
there phone goes my agent why is he calling boys look at my face I say
00:47:39
Liverpool and the both yes the boys yeah and when I looks what what is and
00:47:46
she didn't see my lips when when I spoke what and realized oh god we start again before she knew we will we will um go to
00:47:53
Liverpool. Why did your boys want Come on. If you are not a Man United fan, you know what what Liverpool means
00:48:00
for two people. Um and they they they Yeah, they loved it and we we fell
00:48:06
instantly in love with that club. So did did Manchester United ever call? Yeah. Yeah, I spoke to them.
00:48:13
So in the year when Alex retired, they they spoke to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of
00:48:18
course they were interested at one point. So I was that time I would have been interested. I was a young I had a
00:48:25
sensational team at Dortmund. My god. So somebody they probably thought my what
00:48:31
is he doing there? Um later on I heard that my players Hando, Adam Lana, James
00:48:36
Melon. So that they flew to to to Real Madrid when we played the semi-final in
00:48:41
the Champions League to watch us. I wanted to see what is Dortmund doing. My god, what a football that is. I I mean,
00:48:48
you can get bigger compliments. It's really It's really good. I want to know why Manchester United didn't
00:48:53
No, no, no, no. They they tried. I I It was wrong time, wrong moment for me. I I was in had a contract at Dortmund. I
00:49:00
wouldn't have left. Not really for for for nobody in that time. They just needed a manager, but the manager they
00:49:06
wanted in that case. Now, it was one of a few options, I think. Um So, it was you that turned down
00:49:11
Manchester United, not Manchester United turning you down. Yeah. That way. So I Yeah. So
00:49:19
we need someone else on negotiations. We need Yeah. No, no, no. He's not there anymore. The guy who negotiated that. So
00:49:24
um there are now other people in charge. It's long ago. Long ago. So why why would a guy like Manchester
00:49:30
United's often known as the biggest club in the world? Why wouldn't you take that job? Why didn't you take that job?
00:49:37
Manchester United, the great Manchester United. This is typical. We are now not in private in a private space. So there are
00:49:42
some reasons what the people in that conversation told me which I didn't like. Oh really?
00:49:48
So United was that big. We get all the players we want. We are like we can this
00:49:55
we get him. We get him. We get him. We get him. And I was sitting there. So I it was not my project. It didn't
00:50:03
feel like my it was a wrong time but on top of that it was not my project. What you I didn't I didn't I didn't want to bring
00:50:10
back I don't know Pogba Paul is a sensational player my god but these
00:50:16
things don't work usually but these kind of things or Cristiano god we all know that he's the best player or together
00:50:23
with Messi the best player in the world so but bringing back never helps in that time in 2013 it was obviously not about
00:50:30
Cristiano maybe about Paulo I'm not even sure when don't get the numbers together but it was just the idea is we bring the
00:50:36
best players together and then let's go. It wasn't about the football. It was No, not at all. And I sat there and was
00:50:42
like, "Nah, I'm not sure. That's not for me." So, and then the pure
00:50:49
pure football project comes up with with Liverpool and the
00:50:55
sensational talk to to Mike Gordon should that's really important as well like he was the is the owner. I know
00:51:01
John and Tom of course as well, but Mike was responsible for us. I wanted after the talk I want to be his friend. He's
00:51:08
such a good guy. So that's how it started and in the end yeah was pretty special. Yeah, I find this fascinating
00:51:14
because as a Manchester United fan, I I observed from the moment Sir Alex Ferguson left, we adopted a very
00:51:20
different approach and we brought in all these massive name players, Di Maria, Falcao, Ibra, you know, Ibrahimovic,
00:51:27
Pogba, Ronaldo and we we failed and it it taught me something as an
00:51:33
entrepreneur about what matters more and I actually when I read through your philosophy, it's quite clear in your
00:51:40
philosophy that you you prefer attitude ude and character versus how many
00:51:45
Instagram followers you've got and what you've done in the past. Yeah, of course. And I wanted to get your take on why you
00:51:51
think the last This is very selfish of me. The last sort of 15 years at Manchester United haven't worked out as
00:51:57
an objective observer. I want to I need to know you you can't
00:52:02
no you you're a man that was able to take teams and make them successful and we are currently
00:52:09
underdogs in many regards because of the last 15 years. What is it that we've missed in that time? What have we
00:52:14
overlooked in your view? I know you don't want to hear that. You have a hypothesis, though. I didn't think a second
00:52:22
since I joined Liverpool about what Man United did, right or wrong. I just
00:52:27
didn't. So, it's like I buy into a situation. So um I went to Liverpool and
00:52:33
that moment you became our opponent. Not my enemy but an a very important opponent, one who is much more fun to
00:52:40
beat than maybe and and and like others like with Everton. I know so many Everton fans in Liverpool. We lived
00:52:46
there for 9 years. So I know so many people have great people. Yeah. So absolutely. But then you go to the game
00:52:52
and think, "Oh my god, that's something different." Not I make that up. It's like that. Um but I really didn't think
00:52:58
but but always in football is like this. And again like in life you have a problem and you only try to find a
00:53:05
solution for now knowing you have two days later another problem you know it but it's just for now just
00:53:11
find a solution for that problem there's no mid no long term okay we have to deal
00:53:16
with that for another day or two and then we can sort it and that means in in
00:53:22
our sense we have to deal with that for a year or two at United and then we can make a big step then this in our case
00:53:29
and football case contracts are running out, player goes anyway, we can sell him, we can do this, but because you're
00:53:36
in such a rush all the time just because you want to or have to win the next game
00:53:42
a little bit like that being now in the situation probably United in the years when they were not happy they would buy
00:53:48
the time from that time becoming second and nobody was really happy there and they think oh remember that in that time
00:53:55
second was not good enough and now you are not even close to that but that's not a Man United story for it's just a
00:54:01
football story. It's always like that in the foot in the world of football. You win, you're the greatest. You lose, you
00:54:09
know nothing about the game. You draw, you're boring. So there's not that you're constant. And it's only about
00:54:15
your own idea what you really want to do and where you want to go. And everything in life is about development. We today
00:54:22
you were not the same 10 years ago. I was not the same 10 years ago. So it means the time between then and now
00:54:29
counts. So if it counts for me the next 10 years do the same. So it's important what I do. It's important what I see in
00:54:35
a year two three. So I have to plan my own life mid and long term as much as I can do that. And especially the destiny
00:54:42
and and the future of a football club a player can score a goal can score five
00:54:48
goals will never sort the problems if you have real problems. And I don't know the
00:54:53
United problems but that Liverpool was the same. It's not about that on the day when we when we lost sold Phil Coutinho.
00:55:02
That was not the day when I thought oh good that we have the money. I lost
00:55:07
the player I wanted to work with for the next 10 years if you want. It was not that that I thought and we can invest
00:55:14
it. Yeah we invested it smartly. That's true. But it's not that we found a player for the position and sorted that.
00:55:20
That's we had to sort differently but we found two really solid solid and becoming world class players with
00:55:27
Allison and Fandai that was for the future to go from there and now that's
00:55:32
the difference I think I've had so many founders speak to me and say why didn't this particular ad
00:55:38
that I ran on this platform work for me maybe the copy wasn't good the creative wasn't strong but usually the problem is
00:55:43
they're not having the right conversation because that ad never reached the right person and if you're in B2B marketing that is much of the
00:55:50
name. And this is where LinkedIn ads solves that problem for you. Their targeting is ridiculously specific. You
00:55:56
can target by job title, seniority, company size, industry, and even someone's skill set. And their network
00:56:03
includes over a billion professionals, about 130 million of them are decision makers. So, when you use LinkedIn ads,
00:56:10
you're putting your brand in front of the right people. And LinkedIn ads also drive the highest B2B return on ad spend
00:56:15
across all ad networks in my experience. If you want to give them a try, head over to linkedin.com/diary.
00:56:23
And when you spend $250 on your first LinkedIn ads campaign, you'll get an extra $250 credit from me for the next
00:56:31
one. That's linkedin.com/diary. Terms and conditions apply. Do any of
00:56:36
you remember a conversation I had on this podcast with anthropologist Daniel Lieberman? It was one of our most viewed
00:56:42
conversations of all time. And the most replayed moment in that conversation was when I talked about this product. These
00:56:49
are what I call barefoot shoes by Vivo Barefoot, which have significantly reduced support, which gives my feet the
00:56:55
opportunity that they desperately want to need to strengthen. We're living in a comfort crisis and that at all times in
00:57:01
our lives, we're making this trade of whether to have more comfort now and therefore more discomfort in the future
00:57:07
or a little bit less comfort now, but to be stronger and healthier in the future. And research from Liverpool University
00:57:13
has backed this up. They've shown that wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes for 6 months can increase foot strength by up to 60%.
00:57:20
So if you want to start strengthening your feet and your body, visit vivarefoot.com/stephven
00:57:27
and you'll get 20% off when you use code Stevenb20 at checkout. That also comes
00:57:32
with a 100day money back guarantee. What I love about football is the analogies
00:57:39
to the world I'm in, which is the world of business, where you can watch a team like we're seeing, I think, Crystal Palace at the moment, who objectively
00:57:46
don't have maybe the best players in the world. They don't have the most money. Bournemouth as well. Bournemouth as well. Yeah. But they're
00:57:52
doing something which is creating this magic and it's this wonderful narrative of you don't need to have the most
00:57:59
talent or resources to have the best outcome. So what is that gap between
00:58:04
like and that's There must be something. Now look, it's it's a situation the moment and the situation with Crystal
00:58:10
Palace and Bournemouth is massively different to the situation for United. If if Bournemouth wins a game one nil and doesn't perform particularly well,
00:58:18
you take it and you go on. I'm not sure you would really find an article in in in the newspaper about it just winning
00:58:23
and go but United is United each step is under the under focus and what oh he
00:58:31
didn't they won but he didn't play great. So they they win a game and then somebody doesn't perform well. So pick
00:58:37
him out and go for him full throttle. You think, "Wow." Right? So the coach has to pick him up again. No, no, it's
00:58:43
all right. Stuff like this. And the next one and the different completely different situations. The only problem
00:58:50
you have now in the time you try to sort your problems,
00:58:57
all the other clubs improve their situations. Mhm. So Liverpool has an incredible squad.
00:59:03
Yes. Are they 100% happy right now with the three defeats? No, probably not. But incredible squad. Arsenal, incredible
00:59:10
squad. City city, I mean, and they want to strike back. There's already three clubs. Chelsea.
00:59:16
Mhm. Huh. They in that time when everybody thought, do they have an overview about their transfer market? Do they know who
00:59:21
they own and who they loan and stuff like this? Obviously, somehow it pays off. So, they have already five clubs.
00:59:29
They are above you. Are you happy with position six? No. Mhm. Yeah. So, and here's the problem. Should you
00:59:35
be happy theoretically with position six? Maybe this year and build on that.
00:59:41
So, find um find a reason. Find a reason to enjoy the situation again. Find a
00:59:48
reason to enjoy a a one nil victory, two-nil victory at home, whoever against
00:59:53
whoever. Southampton. Try to enjoy that. Really be happy. go home and not
01:00:00
listening to others who tell you then. But Southampton, that's what we had
01:00:05
years ago when we decided after a draw against West Brom
01:00:13
to say thank you to the supporters. We stand in front of the cop and hold his
01:00:18
other hand and and said thank you. And then the press conference and Tony P is uh uh what a what the world we are
01:00:25
living in when Liverpool with the money they spend celebrated point against West Brom.
01:00:31
Oh thank you. Um so but it's it's it's your choice how you grow together again. And
01:00:39
I think after all the years now without a lot of good football they need to find
01:00:44
a way to grow together again. I fully believe in Reuben Amarim. Um, I
01:00:50
think he's he's a man that's focused on culture. And I I like how honest he is as well. And I think with the team that
01:00:57
they have around them with people like Jason Wilcox and Inos who I've met um and Colette and all the others that are
01:01:02
there, I think we're we've never been in a better place. I personally feel like that because I just think they're aiming
01:01:07
for more long-term things. They're aiming at long term. The only problem is you have no clue about football, but besides that,
01:01:15
that's a small problem. So, yeah. Yeah. Good on you. Good on you.
01:01:21
I have faith. That's great. Yeah. I don't know if all my friends do, but but I certainly do. And the only
01:01:28
reason I have faith is because I see the club aiming at more long-term things now and not buying
01:01:33
that's what you have to do. Players because they have loads of Instagram followers. Yeah. When you got that phone call from Liverpool and they asked you to come and
01:01:39
join, you said, "Well, the reason you chose Liverpool is cuz they felt like a football project versus Manchester
01:01:45
United who seem to be a bit more less football oriented, but but it's not the same year. Two
01:01:51
years two years before. I'm wondering what is it about their proposal that
01:01:57
made you think it was a football project?" Oh, the situation. I knew the club, I
01:02:02
knew the team. So if you look at um on top of that I didn't think it that way
01:02:07
but when Alex left it was they became champion in his last year but it was not
01:02:13
that the team was the one you build a future on. So that's how it is when you come in as you it's is a bit built to
01:02:19
fail if you want it but I didn't see it that way in that time it was had other reasons but if I would have thought
01:02:24
longer about it probably yeah so David Moyes fantastic fantastic
01:02:31
manager um proves every year um couldn't do the job and since then it's a bit of
01:02:36
a problem so a new team needs time he was stitched up he was so needs time so Liverpool the team as I
01:02:44
I said when I him. Um, nobody likes the team. Not even the team likes the team. Um, I like the team. Do I like the team?
01:02:51
I knew the players. I thought when Bobby Faminia moved there, I said, "Oh, that's a smart that's a smart transfer." I know. I knew Christian Benteke. I love
01:02:58
Debri. I knew John Hennison. I knew Adam L. I know many plenty players and heard only kind of good enough thought, well,
01:03:08
let's see. So, I like the team. So, that's a football team, proper football, super attitude. I mean just on day one I
01:03:14
could have um um played Hendo Millie and Adam together in midfield. Maybe I did.
01:03:20
I don't even know my first lineup. But this it's a proper engine room. It's smart players. It's people who really
01:03:26
want to want to um perform, want to work hard and all these kind of things. And what do you need for a start? I knew
01:03:32
Liverpool was not the same club than they were before. It's not that I went into the shiny room. I played there a
01:03:39
year before with Dortmund in a summer in the preseason and I was
01:03:45
massively disappointed about the dressing rooms where I remember you have this pictures in your mind you think oh
01:03:50
my god it's envy and you walk in and make two steps into the dressing room and you run against
01:03:57
the wall and you think kidding is that all where's the rest so
01:04:03
English dressing rooms really really small in the old stadiums they think oh my god how can we bring it. It was built
01:04:08
for 11 players and now we come here with 30. So people in that room doesn't help.
01:04:14
So I I knew about the history. I knew that nobody's happy. I knew that I like
01:04:19
the team. Um that's a good start. And did they tell you that they were
01:04:25
going to develop the the ground the stadium? Did they make any promises to your assurances? Did they tell you you're going to get
01:04:30
They didn't we didn't really speak about that in the first conversation. That's that's nothing I need to talk about in in this kind of conversation. I know my
01:04:36
the job I had in that moment was just to improve the football team not the club that I was involved in all the other
01:04:43
stuff happened with time with time just that be I realize this is my
01:04:48
responsibility now as well um you never know I don't plan seven 8 n years spells
01:04:54
in a club it just happens it's like I don't I don't think they could sack me
01:04:59
but I know could happen so I plan from a specific moment on when I sorted the
01:05:06
first few things then I plan mid and long term or always did knowing it might
01:05:11
not be for me but um I was I was never worried about that too much.
01:05:16
What was the first first couple of things you thought you had to change to get them winning and to get the the confidence back and to ultimately bring
01:05:23
the city behind you? Was there anything you thought okay the first thing I'm going to have to do is get rid of him, change this?
01:05:29
So they a year before like not in that season but the the the two years before
01:05:35
they nearly became chairman was a different team and it was a very specific way of football offensively. Oh
01:05:42
my god they were ridiculously good defensively. Yeah lucky a good goalie
01:05:47
there stuff like this was not the same. So we didn't have the team from that time we didn't have Suarez. We didn't
01:05:52
have Sterling. We didn't have Yeah. We had still um Dennis Dur stuff like this but it was different different team
01:05:58
completely different I I arrived there I had five strikers there was
01:06:04
Chris Maker Denny Ings Dorigi Bobby Firmino Daniel Sto five strikers and I
01:06:10
want to play one striker system how do we deal with that but it was it was fine and there was so much quality
01:06:16
doesn't really solve it so the first thing I had to sort is like to organize them so find a way to make sure that
01:06:22
they understand that we have chance to win the next football game. We have to do a couple of things for that. But
01:06:27
Tottenham, three days time to train. Yeah. Jump in their face and let's see
01:06:33
what what what we get for it. So that's it's not organized. It's like we started with an organized chaos. So I gave them
01:06:39
a few ideas about where we have to where we want to put them under pressure and in that moment now do it. And afterwards
01:06:45
we work we talk about it how it worked out because there was no time to train. We anyway we had no time. the week after
01:06:52
we played European League I think in the midweek and then you play again and no it's like you are in a rush and a
01:06:59
coaching career with all the games you have to play if you really want to a top team especially if you really want to
01:07:05
develop a style of football you are set up to fail because it's like you have no time in the preseason there's no their
01:07:11
players are everywhere playing big tournaments blah blah blah and then you come two weeks before the season starts
01:07:16
into your camp okay so let's try let's go from here. Then you play top teams
01:07:23
play every 3 days from a specific date on. We obviously we lost a lot of
01:07:29
finals. That means we played a lot of finals. That means we played all the games until the end of the season, which
01:07:34
is a lot. So there's no really time. So to train and really develop things. So
01:07:40
you have to use each little moment to implement a specific idea we all can buy
01:07:48
into. And that's what we did. I loved our first game against Tottenham.
01:07:53
Simon Mino they had to make a good few good really good saves but they had to do as well and that year Tottenham was
01:07:59
really strong there. We came second behind Leicester I think that was that season and that's a start.
01:08:05
What are those little ideas that you started to implement one by one?
01:08:11
So many if we don't have time to change football. What do you mean? We are all not genius
01:08:17
and we cannot go there and show them a little bit. Pass the ball here, pass the ball there and if you pass the ball back again, you can shoot on your alone in
01:08:23
front of the goal. That doesn't work like that. So I I'm 100% convinced that you have to
01:08:30
make sure that you are stable and if you're stable that means that the other team whatever they try it's not easy for
01:08:35
them to get through and shoot just finish. I don't like that. So if you can avoid that do it because we are people
01:08:43
but we are now realized a few times it's not easy that you if they have five six chances after each other opportunities
01:08:50
after each other then it's like that you you don't feel great nobody plays his best football if each attack of the
01:08:56
opponent ends in the arms of your goalie that just doesn't work so how can we do that in stability is to organize a team
01:09:02
that's number one two and three on the to-do list of a successful manager and that's what I did we organize and then
01:09:09
be told them to run their socks off. If you people have to sh you have to show the people that you want to change
01:09:15
something, you have to show the people that you want to achieve something. How we can tell I can tell them but the end
01:09:21
you have to show them. So run and and they went for it and I I loved it so much. They loved it so much. It's easy.
01:09:27
They all top fit. They want to run. So just show them which direction and it goes. And then we developed step by step
01:09:33
our own way of football. Brought players in step by step. Um but we got we got
01:09:39
stable pretty quickly. Not as much as we wanted. I think we became sixth, seventh, eight. I I don't even know.
01:09:44
First season, two finals. Great. Lost both. Not great. Um but then we we knew
01:09:52
each other and we loved working together with this group. Brought in super players, really super super players,
01:09:59
super character super players and stick together. And I mean what can
01:10:04
you do? We we lost it. We lost the European League final in Basel.
01:10:09
How it always is, there's a party after the game. So you cannot organize a party, but you all know if you lose, who
01:10:15
wants to go to the party? So I was a new manager. Yes. Not that new anymore. 7 8
01:10:22
months in or so. And I realized some players under there, but was in a team hotel. So I told I called them, told
01:10:28
them all here. Come on, come downstairs. Was really
01:10:34
I tell you what this was only the start. We only are together in six, seven months. This is not the last final we played. This is the first final we
01:10:40
played. Okay, we lost the car boy. It's not important. The first international final we lost. No problem. We go again.
01:10:46
And I went on stay on the dance floor. It was a dance floor. And I said all coming when we saying we are Liverpool.
01:10:55
I mean, I had um had a few parties after finals we lost and I always thought I
01:11:02
don't waste time at all on not being happy about what we achieved over the
01:11:08
whole year because qualifying for a final is a real achievement. Losing it
01:11:13
is not great, but until then everything was fine and I never accepted that we
01:11:18
ignore the rest. So we have a party and then we went on to achieve
01:11:26
new things and we need a bit of time obviously but it was okay and this goes back to the point earlier
01:11:32
about controlling the mindset and the psychology after you lose to make sure that you don't get depressed and
01:11:39
if you don't learn from a defeat it's a real defeat if you learn from it it's just it's a very very important
01:11:45
information and that's how I always understood understood it I had enough
01:11:50
opportunities to learn. Really, how I said I lost more Champions League finals
01:11:55
than most people play. It's not a great thing to say. It's the truth. Anyway,
01:12:02
you're known for what they call heavy metal football. Yeah, but that's Yeah, I know. You like that phrase.
01:12:08
And do you know why I said a lot of things, but it's like they that I said that it was not in my
01:12:14
mind that I thought you want to play heavy metal football. They asked me about Asen Mena on the comparison and
01:12:21
they they think we are similar in a way and I thought what and I know so come on don't be
01:12:28
disrespectful to our I'm a young baba man from somewhere um but if you want to compare us then I'm not sure that's
01:12:35
possible because Azen's football is rather like an orchestra and my team
01:12:40
plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band but that was the first day when I thought about my team I got heavy
01:12:45
metal band but it. But it's true. Yes, somehow. It is true. And I know that more than
01:12:52
anyone as a Manchester United fan watching. I'd hate playing your football teams because they they ran so much. They were
01:12:58
so passionate. They never let up. They would they could always win in the last minute and the intensity was you were
01:13:04
just anxious as a as a football fan watching the games because it was so fullon and it was overwhel. It's almost
01:13:11
overwhelming emotionally. And I I remember through your era you would win sometimes you'd win games by seven. You'd score seven goals, five goals.
01:13:17
Every week when I pull up my phone to check the scores that week, oh, Liverpool have scored five again. Oh, they've scored seven again. They've scored six again. Sometimes you would
01:13:24
concede three, but you it was it was it was crazy how high intensity the way you played
01:13:30
football was. Don't waste time with holding back. I I don't understand it. We have nothing to
01:13:36
do 90 minutes, 95 minutes, whatever. I don't. We had to learn. I had to learn
01:13:42
to to manage games inside me until the last date was like
01:13:47
come on come on try but then I had to I I mean I grow up and I got more mature
01:13:54
and stuff like this it was like okay come on hold the ball control the ball all the things you you at one point you
01:14:00
do you you learn some at any time on your on your journey and that's that's
01:14:06
how it is and I love the game so much and could play it not that good that I was so happy that I could work with
01:14:12
these outstanding players. I couldn't so I I loved it. I enjoyed it so much
01:14:17
seeing them doing what they're doing. I was I was number one supporter of my team teams wherever I was. I loved what
01:14:24
they did. So that's what I I I carried through the week. I didn't tell them. I I told them I want to be your friend,
01:14:30
but don't I cannot be your best friend because I'm the one who tells you off very often and doesn't tell you this is
01:14:35
not right. This is not right. But then but the feeling the general feeling was I love them in my mind. My ex- players I
01:14:42
love them all and some of them don't love back. Let me say like that probably for some reasons or whatever but that
01:14:49
doesn't mean anything to me. I love my clubs. Do you think it's important how you win? Because you you know this
01:14:56
heavy metal high intensity oh you win was great for the fans. They they love watching three four five six seven they
01:15:03
love watching that stuff. Do you think that matters or do you think it's just about getting the three points? Just say we didn't win that often. 5 nil
01:15:09
7. It felt like it. It felt like it was and against United we did. Yeah. No. Uh you can cut it out. Um
01:15:18
no, it's Yeah, of course it's important. So if you have your backpack going to
01:15:24
stadium as a player, if you have your boots and if you have wear shirt, don't
01:15:29
waste time with anything than giving you all. There's no guarantee to get anything but the only chance to get
01:15:35
something. So give your all from the first until last minute. You have to understand this game is only that fun
01:15:42
for us because all the people are watching it. That's why we earn the money. I mean it. I know that's what people want to hear. But we earn the
01:15:48
money because everybody's interested in it. Everybody wants to see it, knows about it, reads everything about it, all
01:15:54
these kind of things. And for that with all the stories around the only thing we really have to deliver is give your
01:16:01
absolute all in a game like that. Whatever whichever game is there 5:30,
01:16:07
2:30, 3:30, whenever the game starts, give your absolute all. But why not just 1 nil and defense and
01:16:13
boring and pass it around and that happens. That happens in games. You are you realize okay we score a goal but
01:16:19
today is not our days. Come on let's get it over the line. that happens but it cannot be the target or the purpose for
01:16:24
the next game again let's do it like that not for there are clubs if you own the only
01:16:31
realistic target is to stay in the league a wonder is a wonderful result but we talk about a club like Liverpool
01:16:38
we are we were are bigger than that you have to win each football game when you
01:16:44
are manager of Liverpool that's what people that's not that before the season anybody thinks oh 38 eight games. Oh, it
01:16:52
makes sense. Oo, more than 100 a nobody had ever. So, it's not like that. But
01:16:57
still, each defeat and each draw is like, how could that happen? It's like and that's why you have to to play in a
01:17:05
specific way. Not all clubs have the same things to do, but the top clubs, they have to win all the games. And when
01:17:11
you have the chance, you win them clear. You win them with a proper result, stuff like this. You have to make the people
01:17:17
enjoy the football you play. And I love to do that. I I loved it. I honestly
01:17:23
it's like the the games we played the the the the results we we had were just
01:17:28
incredible. It's just amazing. Not all of them. And I love the one nils as much as I do all the others. The Champions
01:17:34
League final was the worst the worst final of all the four my teams played.
01:17:39
But we won it. Would I take would I change say okay let's the other three as well a little bit. The performance in
01:17:45
other games was really good but we lost. So here we are. Yeah, it was not fantastic but we won. So all fine. It's
01:17:53
about the result but if you have a result and another result it has to lead
01:17:59
to really good football at one point as good as possible for your specific team.
01:18:04
You want to stay in the league do it with good football. You want to qualify for Europe do it with good football
01:18:11
because we are there for the people. We don't it's not there that we just go home and people think oh it's unwatchable I'm not sure I come next
01:18:17
week again that's not that's not fair try to play the game is really is is
01:18:23
really cool game so let's make sure that everybody sees it and what is the Liverpool way what is
01:18:28
inherent in when you come to Liverpool and you are the manager or you are a player what is the thing that you have
01:18:33
to do that's specific to Liverpool in order to be successful you have to understand the community and
01:18:38
with the community as a city community as a bigger community around the world and there are so many people and this club went through a lot not as the only
01:18:46
club in the world but come on for that moment we just think about ourself went through a lot the reaction of to these
01:18:53
situations was always exceptional to be 100% honest and that's what you have to
01:18:59
understand what you have to learn that that mean this club means more to the people than just football so that you
01:19:06
you have to understand and that's why what we do is more important than it maybe is somewhere where else that
01:19:12
that's the responsibility responsibility we always took and understood 100% our boy the players understood to play for
01:19:20
Liverpool is not just a club where you play during your career it's the club
01:19:26
and it's something you will definitely remember for life so that we try we try to make sure that the boys understood
01:19:34
if we give our absolute everything now we meet in 10 15 years look back and we
01:19:40
I think it was the best we could have done. The absolute best we could have done. I think that's how you the my view
01:19:47
on life is as well. All the other stuff is just sorting the problem in front of you.
01:19:52
Mhm. There's something we have to sort. But when you saw you think about what's the effect for for for the rest and that's
01:19:58
what some people some clubs maybe don't want to see because the pressure is too
01:20:05
big just to make sure okay tomorrow at least they will not write we have no
01:20:11
clue tomorrow at least they will say they found a solution and then we can think about um the next day or whatever.
01:20:19
How does how does someone I don't know how someone succeed succeeds you because you have such a big aura. Are you aware
01:20:25
that you have a big aura? Don't know if anybody has the awareness of that. I heard about it but I doesn't
01:20:32
that don't know what it means 100% to be honest but I see it with other people. An energy when you you arrive it's the
01:20:38
passion. It's the ability to talk. It's the ability to inspire people. it is, you know, has an impact on the rival
01:20:44
team you're playing because they go clocks here and big personality, big charisma.
01:20:50
So, Anie Slaugh coming in after you, he's he doesn't appear to be as have the
01:20:55
same size of an aura. And I I don't know. I just think big big shoes to fill
01:21:02
in terms of your aura. I have to go to the toilet. I bet you do.
01:21:08
Oh, really? Okay. Okay. Okay, that's good.
01:21:15
Big shoes. Big shoes. I would not want to fill such shoes. A couple of things. First and
01:21:22
foremost, I uh I thought I have to say what I had to say when I when I
01:21:31
um announced my exit, if you want, my retirement, whatever you want to call it, at the time. And people judge that
01:21:39
wrong moment blah blah blah whatever you cannot change that it was fine the feeling was I have to say that then we
01:21:44
have to finish the season as good as somehow possible in idle world you win something we couldn't do that for
01:21:50
whatever reason and then you have to make sure because that's still something you have to do you have to try
01:21:57
to make it as easy as somehow possible for the guy who's coming after you what
01:22:03
I tried as well because I wanted them all to do do incredibly well.
01:22:10
And also if somebody is not doing it that way, you it's a first
01:22:16
the first hint you can get that maybe he
01:22:21
wants the next guy not to do it well. Every shouting, oh my god, he did that, he did that, he did that. And I don't
01:22:27
need that. I want Liverpool to do well. I want Liverpool to win. But they did.
01:22:32
So what I liked a lot about Arnold that Arnold didn't hesitate. But you said, "No, I don't want to go in these shoes." A didn't have that problem. He thought,
01:22:38
"Okay, that's a that's a great club. That's a great team." And he's right. It was a fantastic It's a fantastic club
01:22:45
and it's a fantastic team. And he stepped into that. We had a lot of contact after that. He was super
01:22:52
It's a super super good guy. Um, my god, what a team. Wow. Thanks a lot. Blah
01:22:59
blah blah. All these kind of things. And yeah and he made the best he got the best out of this team and they they
01:23:06
became champion in incredible manner to be honest. So and I'm really really happy about that. So that's all that's
01:23:11
all you you is it it all about it shows again it's all about how you see it. You
01:23:17
can see you step into my footsteps how you called it. Mhm. Or you take over a fantastic football
01:23:24
team. It was a brilliant I mean my my best friend's a Liverpool fan and he said before you left actually he said
01:23:29
this is the best squad Liverpool have ever had. Yeah. Um Anie has inherited that squad which
01:23:35
is considered to be the best squad by many people that Liverpool have ever had. And in that first year didn't really
01:23:41
change much. There wasn't really there wasn't any big signings coming. I actually heard from one of the the players in Liverpool that them say to a
01:23:49
really good friend of mine that the best thing Arie had done was actually in that first year don't change much don't come
01:23:55
in and try and radically change things and that's what Anna slot would say himself probably I think he said it that's super
01:24:02
smart so it's not about what Anna wants to show the world what he can do it's about how to get the best out of this
01:24:07
team and that's exactly what he did not changing much means he changed a little bit we became third a year before So
01:24:14
there's not a lot you have to change, but a few decisive things you have to change and all of a sudden you win the
01:24:20
league by some distance. So that's what it is. Not that he has to put his new
01:24:25
own stamp. This team was was was good in in a lot of ways, but we didn't win the
01:24:31
year before. So and that's what he what his what his um job was. And he did that
01:24:36
in an incredible impressive manner. So and that's all you want. And you need
01:24:42
people who have the confidence to do these kind of things because um doesn't
01:24:49
make sense if you have a a manager who is not 100% sure about the things he
01:24:54
wants to do and I want us to play like this or if that's not possible I want to play like this or I want to but we maybe
01:25:03
completely different that doesn't work. Being a football manager is already a challenge with all the different things
01:25:08
you have to do. Being a football manager in in in such a competitive league like
01:25:14
a Premier League is a real challenge. Being a football manager in the world we are living in with media,
01:25:22
social media and all these kind of things. It's an incredible challenge. Believe me, you you have no clue what's
01:25:29
coming up the next day. You think, "Oh my god, where's that coming from? Who was that? Oh, my player. You read a
01:25:36
story, whatever, and all of a sudden you think, oh, from a problem, it turns into your
01:25:44
problem and a and a wing. So, sort that and all the rest as well. So, you need
01:25:49
this kind of I love that about Arnet that he came in and and took over and he knew he got a good team. Yes, it was.
01:25:56
Um, and did a perfect job. I mean in terms of making changes this
01:26:02
year you Liverpool have spent what 450 odd million which is a crazy number. I mean the bro I think he broken the
01:26:09
transfer record in various positions several times with warts and um with
01:26:14
ESAC now as well. So change has arrived. These are these are new people coming in
01:26:20
with their their own ideologies from their previous clubs. They've all arrived at once. A lot of new faces at
01:26:25
once. Is this not now where the challenge begins? because this is this is going to become Anie's team now.
01:26:32
Yeah, but that's not a problem. That's just completely normal. That doesn't mean exactly that there was a lot of
01:26:38
change. I mean, no team in the by the way, it's 450 or
01:26:43
whatever million. I don't know the exact numbers, but they they earned a lot of money as well. Um, and change always has
01:26:50
an impact and change always needs time and don't but people talk then about yeah, but this if no let's start like
01:26:56
that. He keeps this exactly same team like us. Yes, Darin Yun is still there. Luis Diaz is still there as an example.
01:27:02
So they start playing but they have problems. Say yeah change and we needed change. So now they're not there
01:27:08
anymore. The new guys are there and they are good really really good players. It's not working out. Yeah, why why it's
01:27:14
not working? Because development needs time then nobody can change that and
01:27:19
people need to find uh need to adapt to situation need adapt to things and that all these kind of things. So it's all
01:27:25
it's all good. It's all in place. What you have at Liverpool this year has to be in the competition in the decisive
01:27:32
moments and then they have to be ready to go for it. There's no guarantee that you then will win it again. That doesn't
01:27:39
happen just like this. You cannot be champion, spend money and be champion again. The other teams don't sleep.
01:27:46
That's how it is. And to become champion, you need luck in moments here and there. That's how it is. Nobody
01:27:51
wants to hear that. crossbar over the line, not over the line, all these kind of things. It can go in your
01:27:58
direction or in the other direction. So, it's all fine. And we discuss the situation now like it's a h they
01:28:04
struggle. Surprise. Yeah. We we take we take the money and throw it against them. 450 million. Yeah. But they earned
01:28:11
200 odd million as well. So it's all fine if you're with Liverpool and only
01:28:17
these people are really that's the only only people who matter if you are with Liverpool. Yeah, you trust them and they
01:28:25
do the right they did the right stuff. They do the right things. So work on it and become the best football team this
01:28:31
team can be. You never had a transfer window like that where you spent that much money and No, we built we built three stands and
01:28:37
and a training ground. Yeah, exactly. And and I remember the press conference I think when you were
01:28:42
referring to City's ability to spend money. I had no clue that this is possible.
01:28:47
Nobody nobody ever told me that it's possible that we can that we can spend like that my last year Liverpool. So we
01:28:54
obviously so the Adidas deal the new stadium all these kind of things. Yeah they earn
01:29:00
more money but it was never no never ever I I could have asked for the amount of money but that's not a problem that
01:29:06
time it was not there. No problem at all. really not. And
01:29:12
I love the fact that we were as successful as we were and
01:29:18
build new stands and build a training ground because we talk now about a
01:29:24
transfer window in the way you want to talk about it, spend a lot of money. Um, but there's no discussion about the
01:29:30
stance and no discussion about the training ground. They are second to none. The training ground, the stands
01:29:36
are wonderful. So, and and at the same place where Enfield is, they could build pretty much a new stadium without
01:29:43
leaving the old one. So, that's a fantastic story and that will stay forever. Maybe at one point they decide
01:29:50
the cop could be even for more people or whatever. I don't know if that ever will happen, but you could do stuff there.
01:29:56
And that's what I love about this. And I think I really want as much as I can.
01:30:01
And it's not my first target because I have to win football games with my team, but I want that a club benefits from the
01:30:09
time we were together after we left. I want that. This might be quite a naive observation,
01:30:15
but in the time when you were at Liverpool, my assessment of Liverpool was you never you didn't necessarily
01:30:20
have the world's most famous starting 11 team, but you could beat anybody. Mhm.
01:30:26
So, you know, when you brought in Milner, who was at City before, and when you brought in these other players, I
01:30:31
would see I'd be like, why why are they signing him? He's not. But then when they'd play for Liverpool, they would be
01:30:37
unbelievable players, and you could be anybody. So, there was almost this culture at Liverpool, which which I observed, where you didn't necessarily
01:30:43
go for Galactico players. You weren't trying to get Ronaldo or Messi. You were going for sort of these players that had
01:30:50
character and and a culture fit. And ultimately that meant that you know you
01:30:55
at times it looked like you were playing with 12 men. And so this new this transfer window that I've just observed
01:31:01
where you you have gone for the very very best names the you know some of the best players on planet earth that were
01:31:07
number one choices for Real Madrid and the biggest clubs on earth. I almost don't recognize Liverpool it moving like
01:31:12
that in a window. Yeah. There's part of me that I'm like, well, hopefully that this is their Falca Di Maria moment, Ronaldo moment where
01:31:20
they where they bought big players but they didn't think of culture. I'm praying. Yeah, you wish.
01:31:26
I wish that's the difference. Your wish
01:31:32
is incredible striker. Incredible striker. Floss you all will eat your words if you have the wrong use the
01:31:38
wrong words or is an incredible talent. Incredible player. Um yeah, just
01:31:45
offensive players. It's a really really really good well you
01:31:52
squat. If the young center half is not getting injured, it's a perfect squad. Now he's
01:31:58
injured. That doesn't help. Then you might be a majority on the center half position. Besides that, it's a perfect squad. Two super left backs, really
01:32:06
super right back. So it's it's just a really good football. That's how you set a team up. And now you have to deal with the situation. They all think they have
01:32:12
to start the game but that's the normal job. It's not that difficult or that's the normal job. You have this discussion
01:32:19
who will start a week or two in a then third week one is injured and you are happy that the other can start. So
01:32:24
that's that's the the world a football manager is living in. So we have we
01:32:30
don't have to to worry about what's that the I'm really interested.
01:32:37
So you don't have to worry about Liverpool. They will be fine. This was the just the net spend graph of the
01:32:42
different clubs um while you were while you were there. And
01:32:48
it's quite clear that you um you weren't spending the same as your rivals during your time. And a lot of the fans in the
01:32:55
media speculated that the owners, the Fenway Sports Group, just weren't giving you the money, but you were still
01:33:00
getting the results, which is pretty No, no, no. So, yeah. What's the What's the public perception that I didn't ask
01:33:06
for the money? That's probably not right. I we had these conversations but I didn't ask in a way if you don't get
01:33:12
it we can do it. It's not my job to think
01:33:18
about how much we can squeeze out of whatever area. I was I I felt massively
01:33:24
respond my my my idea was always with the the boys we have
01:33:31
become the best team you can be and you're right when you said um we were
01:33:36
maybe not the best team I think there was a period when we played football you could have
01:33:43
thought that's maybe the best played by the best team I don't know exactly between 18 and 20 there was a pretty
01:33:48
long spell um but We always and it was
01:33:54
the idea. We always were able to beat the best team. And that was the idea
01:33:59
because that's a constant thing. The next best, the next best, we can beat you, we can beat you, be the best, you
01:34:06
know, you are the one everybody wants to beat. I love that. So that's net spend and stuff like this. I was never too
01:34:11
worried about. We had all these conversations. Yeah. I I was I was happy with how it was. I couldn't have
01:34:17
discussions with people. No, I cannot decide how much money we spend. It's not just not possible and slot cannot decide
01:34:22
how much money Liverpool spend. That's how it is. You do there are other people who decide that and if you have the
01:34:28
money then you spend for really good players what Liverpool did this year. And I think it was it was the right
01:34:34
thing to do. And I'm pretty sure
01:34:39
one specific moment changed the whole transfer window. Yeah. That was the the saddest day of of
01:34:48
last year. Um, and how do you how do you
01:34:54
replace somebody like Joo? It's not about the player itself. It's
01:35:00
about the the the guy he was.
01:35:07
It was he was good with absolutely everybody. Absolutely everybody. his he
01:35:13
arrived he had no real it was I think he was a bit surprised that we approached him that we asked for him then he came
01:35:19
and then we he delivered from day one I remember still when I saw him the first time playing for wolves he saidoo what's
01:35:27
that when I went to the you always hear these stories when people tell me and it's it's true that Malah they had to
01:35:33
convince me and stuff like this not convinced that I take him but it was like there were other players as well
01:35:38
and Mo was one of the others and then we we decided all together for Mo but fine but this nobody came to me and told me
01:35:45
come on let's have a look at at yoga I saw him and I said please give me more
01:35:51
material I have to see him and that's and he he he he excelled all the expectations as as a guy super smart
01:35:58
super super teammate and now he sits in a dressing room and I I cannot imagine
01:36:04
right now the dressing room without him being there that's as so hard it's so hard I still cannot speak properly about
01:36:12
it it's it's really like that. It was an incredible shock and that's for the boys as well and and I don't we could think
01:36:19
we don't speak about it because otherwise some bad journalists make a story of it what I said about him and
01:36:25
how it what it means. Nobody at Liverpool will ever use it as an excuse but it is the situation you walk every
01:36:34
day in this room where he was omniresent. He was
01:36:39
can you imagine he to to to talk about Timmy he he was so close with ch with
01:36:45
James Milner they are not the same age group they're nothing the same it's just he was so but on the other side very close with cost simas that's like mount
01:36:51
and moon and Mars so that's that was him and dealing with that as a
01:36:58
per on a personal level not easy impossible and now as a club take all
01:37:05
the the emotional stuff out and think How do we replace him? And you have to think about that. Wow, that's difficult.
01:37:13
Impossible, I would say. And now we charge a transfer window where they buy the players. There was not the plan. I'm
01:37:19
pretty sure the two that he had to get to um
01:37:24
replaced. Do you remember where you were when you heard the news? Yeah.
01:37:31
I got a message in the morning. Boss, I have bad news. And then I got and I got a message from a from a friend from
01:37:39
Liverpool and and I I I couldn't believe it. I I just
01:37:46
it was not possible. I heard it and I know what it means but I couldn't believe it.
01:37:52
the whole story. I saw all the pictures obviously from the wedding and all the boys were there and and stuff like that
01:37:58
and it was so was only before that and um
01:38:04
I know exactly where I was. I was I was exactly how long I sat there without speaking a word. So
01:38:12
it it is it is it is a family member. is exactly like that.
01:38:22
So look, it's it's it's really like that. You have it's it's an example for the things you have to deal with
01:38:28
without knowing at all. You cannot be prepared to deal with things like that. And today we we talk about the the
01:38:36
transfer window in the name if you want of Liverpool that would have looked completely different. Yeah. So you have to sort the things you did never
01:38:44
expected that you have to think about. Everybody wanted this boy to play the
01:38:49
next 10 years at Liverpool. Allound player,
01:38:55
all positions can play football smart. On July the 3rd, 2025, Diego was killed
01:39:03
in a car crash alongside his brother in Spain. Um I think re just just before
01:39:08
then he had got married to his partner and he had several beautiful children. He he said of you he said the first time
01:39:14
you and him met he just felt your presence. He said I think that's one of his main characteristics the way you can
01:39:21
you can just feel him only with his presence. And Diego went on to be incredibly
01:39:28
successful under your leadership at Liverpool. Yeah
01:39:33
that's true. Yeah. same. I could say the same. I could say the same about him. I
01:39:38
was as impressed with his presence. Very, very special. Very special
01:39:45
young man, I have to say. How much of a role do does a manager
01:39:51
like you play in the transfer window? This is something that's always speculated by the fans. Do you remember the first when I came
01:39:57
and told me about a transfer committee? I never had they they told me that the journalist asked me yeah because they
01:40:04
implemented a transfer committee because they didn't want to have the man that the manager is that decisive in a
01:40:10
transfer window. Obviously before me there was some issues. Yeah. So no problem with that. I can discuss
01:40:16
with everyone as long as no player signs for the club I don't want. I'm used to not getting all the players I want.
01:40:22
That's completely normal. It's not up to the coaches. We say we need want that player and I say yeah it's too
01:40:27
expensive. They can ask again, sorry, can we make it happen? Um, and knowing
01:40:33
they all try through everything to get the right price and get the player in. You cannot do anything with that that
01:40:40
anybody in a club would bring in a player. You don't you don't agree on that. That's that that's not possible.
01:40:45
But it's very very normal in the football code manager life that you don't get all the players you want. So
01:40:52
no problem with that. As long as the transfer window is open, you try to
01:40:58
create build the best possible squad. On the day after the transfer window, you
01:41:05
have the best possible squad, whichever transfers you made, and that's the way you go into the rest of the season.
01:41:12
Michael Edwards left during your tenure. He was sort of one of the key people that that was responsible for looking
01:41:18
for players and and signing them, and he's back now. So first and foremost before I don't
01:41:25
want to say anything else because I really have a really good relationship my is absolutely great in what he's
01:41:30
doing. Um but it was not on one day his job alone to bring in players. There
01:41:35
were a lot of other Julian board Ian Graham um so many people they were involved in in in Barry Hunter all these
01:41:43
kind of things were involved in these kind of things. It was a process. We were really we were really close together. It's not one sitting there and
01:41:49
being the genius and having producing ideas and you think oh my god
01:41:55
he's available I didn't even know him he's so like we know we know football
01:42:00
players it's like negotiating finding the right moment to sell finding the
01:42:05
right moment to buy that's a sporting director's job what he was before and
01:42:11
now is I don't even know exactly the role something in a holding company doing across the board So Richard Hughes is
01:42:17
now there doing an incredible job. Um so these kind of things it's it's it's really all in idle world. So like people
01:42:24
from outside are idolizing sometimes people like that definitely some of them with me and they do with Michael but
01:42:31
Michael never did a job alone. I never did a job alone. Um it was always like a a really good Yeah. They worked together
01:42:39
just really well. We didn't have a lot of disagreements where you think bof
01:42:46
where is that coming from? Why you want him? It's a process and football team is an open book. Everybody can read it
01:42:52
every day. So if you want to add something it should not be a surprise to
01:42:57
everybody and think huh where's that idea coming from? You think we need a left back. Why? We have already four.
01:43:02
That doesn't happen. you are it's a work on progress all the time during a season but the transfer windows
01:43:09
it clash obviously and English people in professional football enjoy the day a
01:43:15
bit more than probably in other countries um so that's what I didn't get
01:43:20
that to a full extent but um I learned um a lot about the excitement of a good
01:43:28
transfer window did you always get on with them yeah I I would say 100% and Michael
01:43:33
definitely and Richard, I don't know. We spoke quite a few times after um after I left. Um so I like him. So and I think
01:43:40
they did an inc they did an incredible job honestly cuz you became bigger than the coach.
01:43:46
You you became such a huge I mean you still are such a huge figure in the in the city. I mean my my assistant who's
01:43:52
been with me, my PA has been with me for 10 years. She's from Liverpool and she I'm probably going to embarrass her now,
01:43:58
but you're like the king to her. Not even in Liverpool. You're the king globally
01:44:04
because we did that. So if I was if I was a Michael Edwards or someone else at the club and I was trying to that you
01:44:11
have you had ultimate power kind of like Sir Alex Ferguson he became
01:44:16
you know he was everything. He is the st he's on the stadium. He is the club. So
01:44:21
I I I always wondered how anyone would be able to overturn your opinion or argue with you when you are the city.
01:44:27
You're like you're the great Jurgen Klo. But that's the outside world. Come on. I'm not I'm not an idiot. I don't I
01:44:33
don't sit there and I always said I need other people to understand things. It's
01:44:40
like I my own opin opinion. I know already. I know the morning I get up I know my opinion. So come on. How can you
01:44:47
get a better view on it on things? That's how it is. It's just by discussing with people. Yes. The final
01:44:52
decision I have to make and I have no problem with that. But for that I need all people being really involved. And if
01:44:59
you want to have an argument, have an argument. In the end, I will make the decisions. Absolutely no problem. Did we have argument? Maybe yes. I don't
01:45:05
remember them. But it's not important because it's just in the end. It's it's about the outcome. It's about what is
01:45:11
best for the club. And I never had a problem with that. I never thought they all have to please me. So I realized
01:45:21
how famous I am after I left Liverpool. So I have no clue. I was never in
01:45:26
Liverpool out there on on the bus. It's normal that the people cheer because we there everybody is they cheer for
01:45:32
everybody. So I realized how good I was as a coach since I'm not in the job anymore. So because I thought what I can
01:45:38
do everybody can do. I realized maybe not. So it's it's 100% the truth because
01:45:44
in the job you just do try to sort every day the things in front of you. That's
01:45:51
what you try. Can I ask you about Nunes? He he didn't seem very happy on your last your last day.
01:45:56
Darwin Darwin. Yeah. We had an absolutely good relationship as good as can be with a
01:46:02
striker is not scoring as often as he wants as the people want and as I think
01:46:08
he could have and with a striker who didn't play as often as definitely he
01:46:14
wants. So how can you have a fantastic relationship is would it be if he would would I don't I didn't see that picture.
01:46:21
I heard about it. If he would have stand there and be the number one and jumping after me, crying his eyes out and and
01:46:27
and hugging me for 10 minutes, I was okay. What's going on here? It's
01:46:32
completely normal situation. I cannot My first concern cannot be to please
01:46:39
everybody. It's just not possible. It's not possible in that job. You have easy the first problem starts with 25
01:46:46
players, 11 starting positions. So sorry more players are not happy than you make
01:46:53
happy. That's that's already where it starts the problem. So now you have to get through this. And I'm pretty sure he
01:46:59
had super moments at Liverpool. We had super moments together. And in my last
01:47:05
day, if I would have been him, I would have thought as well, okay, come on, the
01:47:10
next one is a new chance for me because players do that. If if it's if it goes really well for them, it's not that they
01:47:16
think to the coach. If it's not going well, they think it's okay. He doesn't
01:47:23
bring me often enough. It's not my fault. Blah blah blah. All this kind of we are humans. We are all the same. Though it's not that they are special in
01:47:28
that moment. And some of them think, yeah, I have to do more. I have to do more for the week one, week two, week
01:47:34
three. And I think now I did three weeks more. It's still not pick is not picking me. So it's this it's it's a bit you
01:47:41
cannot have always harmony and and and flowers and all these kind of things. It's a competitive environment and you
01:47:48
need to perform to get what you think you deserve. When did you decide did you decide that
01:47:55
you wanted to sign Darwin? How was that? How did that decision? You decide exactly like before we decided it all to all together involved
01:48:02
in that in that process and yes that's how it is nowadays. We would have loved to sign him for lesser money of course
01:48:11
but it was in that moment not possible. We need a striker. We only wanted to have an an extra like an extra option
01:48:18
for striker like we had Bobby always the best false nine in the world. Yeah. And
01:48:24
know we needed somebody with a bit more speed and stuff like this. We need the actions more and and Sio even sure if
01:48:31
Sio was still there. Probably not. So Sio went that year. Yeah, I think so went that year. So we
01:48:36
had to we had to change as well. So Luis Diaz is great. Cody Gakpo great. What kind of player we don't have? I thought
01:48:43
Cody can play a little bit like Bobby, good football on the side, but feels much better on the on the on the wing.
01:48:50
All these kind of things. So, yeah, of course, we all signed him together. No problem to to to admit that it maybe
01:48:57
didn't work out as good as it could, but without Darin, so many things wouldn't
01:49:02
have happened. The biggest comeback of all times at Newcastle, for example. Oh,
01:49:09
I love that day. I love that game. We came on. Yeah.
01:49:15
Just give me 15 seconds to explain how you can build a viable business online. The people I see winning in life don't
01:49:21
have a perfect plan. They just take the first step and then the next and then they keep going. They stay obsessed and
01:49:26
they stay consistent. And Standtore, a platform I co-own and one of our sponsors is the best first step to help
01:49:32
turn your knowledge into income. It only takes a couple of minutes to launch your business and start selling digital
01:49:38
products, coaching, memberships, or communities online without any tech headaches or endless setup. Thousands of
01:49:44
entrepreneurs, creators, and risktakers use Stan to take control of their future. Because Stan is for
01:49:50
entrepreneurs, for those willing to put in the work and bet on themselves. If you're ready to start building, join us.
01:49:56
Launch your business today with a free 14-day trial at stephvenbartlet.stan.store.
01:50:04
We launched these conversation cards and they sold out. And we launched them again and they sold out again. We launched them again and they sold out again because people love playing these
01:50:10
with colleagues at work, with friends at home, and also with family. And we've also got a big audience that use them as
01:50:16
journal prompts. Every single time a guest comes on the diary of a CEO, they leave a question for the next guest in
01:50:22
the diary. And I've sat here with some of the most incredible people in the world. And they've left all of these questions in the diary. And I've ranked
01:50:29
them from one to three in terms of the depth. one being a starter question. And
01:50:34
level three, if you look on the back here, this is a level three, becomes a much deeper question that builds even
01:50:40
more connection. If you turn the cards over and you scan that QR code, you can
01:50:46
see who answered the card and watch the video of them answering it in real time. So, if you would like to get your hands
01:50:52
on some of these conversation cards, go to the diary.com or look at the link in the description below. Why did you
01:50:58
leave? Why did you leave Liverpool? I I watched your videos announcing your departure so many times
01:51:03
and I was almost trying to read between the lines. Oh, I was trying to read between the lines. Tell me what you read.
01:51:09
No, I was just, you know, cuz you talk about just the energy, not having the energy for it. That's kind of how I was
01:51:15
interpreting you. You know, you you sat down with your board. Your board talked about plans for next year and you
01:51:20
realized in that moment that you didn't have the energy to rebuild and go again, etc.
01:51:26
No, no, not to rebuild that. We didn't have to rebuild. I I know that the team is a good team. John,
01:51:33
my expectation of myself is I'm I I'm I'm the energy giver to everybody in in
01:51:38
this environment. Like that's what I what my if somebody struggle, come on, you can have my don't need it. Let's go.
01:51:45
I have to be on top of absolute top of my game to be the guy who deserves to be
01:51:51
the Liverpool manager. And that's what I said when I said day when I feel huh I know that anymore then I don't so that I
01:51:59
say okay let's wait until everybody sees it and then they can give me the sec and la all these kind of things I cannot do
01:52:06
it like that not after the time we had together I realized I don't want to be that after all the time we had together
01:52:12
I want I don't want to be the guy I don't want to go on tour to USA but why
01:52:17
because was I loved it all every day so it's then you realize I need a break,
01:52:24
whatever. I need to have something else. And you cannot do that in that business. You cannot say, "Ladies and gentlemen,
01:52:31
give me a year. See you later." And it's just not like that. And I really think we we we did what we had to
01:52:37
do to to to say what we felt and thought in that moment. And was exactly like
01:52:44
that. I didn't have the energy to think about what's what's next. I didn't want
01:52:49
to think about what's next. I just wanted to to go. I was happy with finishing the season. But then don't ask
01:52:56
me what can we do here, what can we do there, what can it was all my responsibility for all the time because
01:53:03
yes I don't decide money but all the rest it was in my hands from a specific
01:53:09
moment on. COVID kicked in. No sporting director Michael came after I after I left. It was not there anymore and not
01:53:15
it was not because we had a problem or whatever. Not at all. Um it was just they wanted to find a leader for the for
01:53:22
the pack and founded with Michael and and and Richard and Anna obviously now
01:53:28
working really close together. So that what was the was the decision but there was a time there was no Richard, no
01:53:34
Michael, no Julian Ward. So there was just me sitting there um like on top of
01:53:42
all the the things and we had to win football games but all the rest was on my plate as well. It was an intense
01:53:48
time. There wasn't a structure around you in that regard.
01:53:54
Co changed a lot. I mean, people didn't fly as much anymore. Um, the owners
01:53:59
didn't come that often over. It was like budget calls were on the phone. Uh, more
01:54:05
or less. We brought in Jük, the Germans for because we didn't have a sporting director at that time. In fact, Julian
01:54:12
came back, but then um I don't even know exactly why why he left again. So the
01:54:17
these kind of things that just happened and the only guys who were always there were we the coaches and the football
01:54:22
team. So they were just the normal stuff over a day. So who was doing the sporting director stuff?
01:54:27
Yeah us and together with in that one in that one window with I think it was with
01:54:34
the German guy we brought over. I don't even know if Julian Ward was still there the lawyers the scouts. So, um,
01:54:44
do you think you could ever go back and manage Liverpool again? Is that within the realm of possibilities?
01:54:50
I said I will never coach another team, a different team in in England. So, that means if then it's Liverpool.
01:54:58
Yeah. So, yeah, theoretically it's possible. What would it take theoretically for you
01:55:05
to want to do that psychologically? I don't I don't even know exactly. I
01:55:10
just there must be I I love what I do right now. I don't
01:55:17
miss coaching. I don't I mean I do coach but just different not not players. So
01:55:22
and I don't miss it. I don't miss standing in the rain two and a half, three hours. Um, and and I don't miss
01:55:29
going to press conference four times, three times a week, having
01:55:40
12, 10, 12 interviews a week. I don't miss that. I don't. So
01:55:47
I don't miss being in the dressing room like in a sense of that I didn't have it
01:55:52
often other I coach 180 something games so I was in a dress room very very often
01:55:58
and I don't want to die in a dressing room just because so nice it smells so it's it's it's these
01:56:05
kind of things so but there might be something I'm 58 that's from your perspective old from other perspective
01:56:12
from the other side it's not that old that means I could make the decision in a few years. I don't know. Do I have to
01:56:19
make the decision today? I will not coach again. But thank God I don't have to do that. I can just see what future
01:56:25
brings. But now I'm involved in a project I really love and I love the people I'm working together with and the
01:56:32
clubs we are responsible for and the countries the clubs are in. So I like
01:56:37
doing what I'm doing right now. And in my mind,
01:56:43
only if I'm focused 100% on it, I can do it really good. And that's what I always
01:56:48
wanted to do to do. Those are the things you don't miss. What do you miss?
01:56:54
Some sometimes people. So yeah, sometimes I miss people. like
01:57:01
I I I I wish I so that's I don't miss a dressing room as a dressing room but sitting there in the restaurant with the
01:57:07
players and having a nice chat that it's nice it was always nice when they were
01:57:13
just in a good mood. We won a lot of games and so like there was often a very good mood in in the building
01:57:21
and standing there hearing them laugh I I still have virtual laugh in my ear for example. Yes. this kind this part of the
01:57:29
of the job it is obviously but that's for these players which I had
01:57:34
the last time it's now um do I miss it in general with football players not right now it's not like that but I there
01:57:42
is there's really not a lot to be honest what I miss because I'm still in the business I I I know most about so
01:57:52
the football part I don't miss because I have it and the The thing is like don't
01:57:58
have to be outside. I'm not the guy in the chair before a game and stuff like
01:58:03
this. No, I I honestly that's that's probably the best. I don't miss anything. That's how it is.
01:58:09
When I look at your career, minds of Dortmund, Liverpool, you seem to always
01:58:16
be successful and it's it's extremely rare. It's extremely rare and you seem to always succeed with a lot of passion
01:58:23
and all those things. But my question is I think about the audience we have which are often business people, leaders,
01:58:28
CEOs. Is there anything else that we haven't touched upon that is central to your idea of getting the best out of a
01:58:35
group of people? We talked about being a sort of bespoke leader, being the jigsaw piece you need to be to get the best out
01:58:40
of a person. We talked about giving everything. Is there anything else that's really central to your philosophy
01:58:45
of leadership and management that you think is important that we haven't
01:58:50
touched upon yet that young coaches might be able to create the best team
01:58:56
possible. And I mean in an understandable team like really there's there must be a
01:59:02
reason why this team wins and not the other team because there are other teams out there. They try absolutely everything. So don't waste time with
01:59:09
walking next to each other, not knowing anything about each other, not being bothered about the problems of each
01:59:15
other, not being interested about each other. No, no, no. I want to grow together. And it was my job to help them to grow to create situation where they
01:59:21
could do that to make sure and if I had to be harsh to all of them that they found a way to get together. I did that.
01:59:27
It was not what I said. It was what they needed to understand why we are a very
01:59:32
special team in a very hard and difficult competition. But we
01:59:39
have to find a reason why we deserve it more than others. Yes. That's what I what I say what you have to do and
01:59:46
that's what I people want to convince today with knowledge they want to say I know everything about that look I can
01:59:51
tell you I can explain it to you sir but it's in the end that's one thing and other people can know as well it's about
01:59:57
how close can we really grow together to go out there and smash the whatever out
02:00:04
of them so that's the that's the the the thing what what what I wanted to what I
02:00:09
always did so it was always for us we would walk I don't know we
02:00:17
would go through fire I'm not sure if you say that any but we really would do absolutely everything and without me telling every day to find it so to find
02:00:24
a way to grow as much together that was obvious how do I get people to walk through fire
02:00:29
so you're talking about making sure the bonds amongst themselves are strong I heard stories of you making sure
02:00:34
everybody knew everybody's name when you first arrived and things like that not players it was staff the staff names etc
02:00:41
What were you doing to get people to walk through fire? And that's exactly that's exact that's a good question. There's no answer for the
02:00:47
question because it means that would mean you say you say one thing and well everybody runs. That's not like that.
02:00:54
You have to create a culture an an environment a situation uh a wbee where
02:01:01
everybody realize this is special. The underlining message is this is special and now let's go for it. This is worth
02:01:08
it. This it means really more to all of us that we really can fight more for it.
02:01:13
What is special? The togetherness. The way we we had we we the way we and that people can say
02:01:20
that's in our club the same but the way we interacted in the training ground with the kitchen stuff with with the
02:01:27
respect we we showed every day with the kidmen with the gardeners with all the people there there. That was for me most
02:01:35
important because it just you just realize that's the the respect you show is the respect you get. You can show
02:01:41
respect you don't deserve any. So that's how it is and you don't have it's not a lesson in the sense of that I tell you
02:01:47
wait sit here. You have to respect the gardener and then the other people will respect you as well. It's a you don't do
02:01:54
it like that. It's just you learn that show respect you get respect. Don't show respect you don't deserve it. So all
02:02:00
these little things over there, there's not a big thing. It's not that every day I go for them and tell them why is this
02:02:06
different, why is that different. The way you deal with situations, we found a way for us
02:02:12
that the most important information about the game was what I said and not was in the media, not was in social
02:02:19
media. When I said it was good, it was good. There was still all the things out
02:02:24
there were written but that were not important anymore. When I said it was not good, then could they write? Yeah,
02:02:29
but you won 3 and0 and then we found a way to talk about it and and worked on it. We created our own world in that
02:02:36
time which was more important than the outside world. How is not being respectful to the
02:02:44
gardener going to lose you the Champions League? What is the the through line?
02:02:49
I believe just in if you cannot do that, if you don't appreciate what thing what what other people do, then you cannot
02:02:55
appreciate what your teammate is doing. If you don't that's just a little sign. It's not that of course there's not
02:03:00
direct impact from here to there, but in the end I'm pretty sure if you would really have a a brief look at it in one
02:03:08
or two situations like oh he doesn't look like a proper fella and then you go back to to the to the
02:03:14
beginning would say yeah because he isn't. I can tell you I'm fascinated by this point because when I was um when I was at Old Trafford
02:03:21
and the ladies who served the food in the l in the boxes and lounges when I
02:03:26
would ask them what was different after Fergie left the thing they kept saying to me was oh it's just so different
02:03:32
around here and I'd say explain to me how they go I don't know just he Ferguson just knew our names. Yeah,
02:03:38
that's what they would say. And it's a strange thing to hear that the only symptom that some of the staff in the
02:03:43
stadium could point at was just the new leadership don't know our names. Yeah, but this is obviously not the
02:03:49
answer to the Man United problems. That's just the situation with the the ladies or whoever working in that in
02:03:56
that area. But it shows if that doesn't then you don't know theoretically the names. What it shows is the togetherness
02:04:02
is not there anymore. It starts already with a sex was just different and then
02:04:07
you y but not on day one but after 23 years of course he was different of course he knew your name he
02:04:13
saw you growing up so how can you compare that this was under Edward just for the
02:04:19
context this wasn't under any am this was before then a couple of years ago and I just always found that to for me
02:04:25
that as a business leader became a really interesting reference point because it as you said it's just a
02:04:32
downstream symptom of something where the club has gone from feeling like a family and special and you know close
02:04:38
and tight and these values to the decay of the values and it's and all the way down to the the stream at the bottom
02:04:46
but this is this is a generation discussion isn't it like in the past
02:04:51
again I'm not that old that I say in the past everything was better for sure not but we are differently
02:04:57
raised that's how it is I came home I walked home in a 1,200 00 people
02:05:03
village. I had a 400 meter walk from the bus station to my home. I walked home.
02:05:09
Obviously, a lady crossed my way. I didn't can remember it. I arrived at home after 200 m more meters. And then
02:05:17
my mom said, "Why you didn't say hello to Mrs. and so uh
02:05:23
what?" So that does does that help me in life? I'm not sure. It's just how you get it's
02:05:29
just how you get raised. I didn't run back and say sorry hello but next time believe me it leaded so in my life where
02:05:37
everybody a lot of people recognize me so difficult not to say hello to people
02:05:42
because of that but I start obviously getting attention if I can't get through something and I would say hello that
02:05:48
doesn't work properly for me anymore but it's still in me one thing is the things we read the other thing is the things we
02:05:54
feel the other thing is is the how we get treated we all are the result of a lot of things what happened to us and as
02:06:01
long as we are together let's make sure that we influence each other as positive
02:06:06
as somehow possible and let's see where it leads us to that's the idea I have
02:06:12
a lot of managers or leaders or CEOs would focus on tactics and strategy first and foremost and as you say the
02:06:19
information and all those things but it appears that you focus somewhere else not first same time it's not first it's
02:06:27
not same time it's it's same time I 24 hours a day, 2 hours time for training.
02:06:34
There's not a lot more you can do. Maybe you have another in the preseason definitely more another session 2 hours 4 hours 20 hours left 7 8 hours sleep 12
02:06:43
more hours. Welcome. What can we do with that? That's become the best group we can be. So that's I'm 100% interested
02:06:50
in. Definitely the best group we can be. Yeah. That's those relationships, those values.
02:06:56
Yeah. And were there any particular changes you made to how the team interacted with each other? I know that
02:07:02
um the Inos guys told me at Manchester like they've changed the like canteen so that people don't sit on separate tables
02:07:08
now and the team are together when they eat. Just small things like this that some people might think are inconsequential. Are there any things
02:07:14
that you changed? Any rules or policies?
02:07:20
I don't like these obvious things too much. If you don't like each other
02:07:28
and the size of the table makes no difference to be honest. I don't say
02:07:33
that's not important. I don't I don't see them the real effect. I I want to
02:07:40
reach it in a different way. I want to to introduce them to each
02:07:46
other in a specific way on the pitch. By the way, that's where it starts because we are football team. we are not a
02:07:52
community and just sit there and drink tea and and eat biscuits. It's a it's a real competitive environment and it's
02:07:59
all to get the best out of the boys on the football pitch. So, rules, pitch, rules, dressing room, but
02:08:06
then there's so many things left and right of the rules. There's so many things you can do together. There's so much to talk about, so much to know
02:08:14
about. And that's what life is. Otherwise, we just live next to each other and we don't benefit from each
02:08:19
other. That makes no sense. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but my general understanding from football team
02:08:25
is to become the best football team you can be. This is the this is as important
02:08:32
as tactics. As important as tactics. They can have the best tactics and the guys don't respect, don't like each
02:08:38
other, nobody will see them ever. Ever. So, if the worst tactics, but they love
02:08:43
each other, boy, they still can win. That's possible.
02:08:49
Isle world great team good coach you have a good chance to be
02:08:55
successful I have I have two pictures that we haven't shown yet but this this
02:09:00
particular picture is of Elizabeth mama your mama
02:09:06
yeah 2011 we became champion with Dortmund my
02:09:12
home club as gladen invited me build a stage
02:09:18
my elder sister wrote a poem. My mom couldn't have been prouder.
02:09:25
Obviously, uh that day I saw my teammates from my
02:09:30
first football team. They were all there. Nobody would have thought that somebody from there would arrive where I
02:09:38
was there. Yeah, great day. Lisbet was a really really nice woman, I have to say.
02:09:47
She she passed away in 2021 um after falling ill because of everything that
02:09:53
was going on at the time with the pandemic. You weren't able to attend her funeral because of the travel restrictions and all those kinds of
02:09:58
things. She did get to see your your success.
02:10:04
She got to see that's a big difference. So I was not in a funeral and that was the the sounds crazy. The online funeral
02:10:11
was one of the saddest things I I experienced in my life. Uh, but they
02:10:16
made it happen. At least that was good that we could see it, that we could be part of it. We couldn't be there.
02:10:23
My mom had in the end had dementia. So, it's not that she would have known that I was not there when she was lying
02:10:30
there. She was that that's a not a nice thing, but she saw the maturity of
02:10:39
my working life if you want. My dad didn't see my coaching life. So that's
02:10:44
is the there's no nothing is perfect. But mom was was super happy was a very
02:10:51
happy lady until she could remember us and see us and um
02:10:56
recognize us and the time when he could when she couldn't do that anymore. Yeah. Was not
02:11:03
too long. But that's a can't wait for the day when somebody finds a solution
02:11:09
for these kind of things uh for these kind of diseases and um
02:11:15
because in your age obviously don't think about it but if you come older they think who dies today just of a
02:11:22
heart attack and not by having already dementia or or stuff like this and don't recognize the kids anymore and stuff
02:11:29
like this. You don't want that. You just can't get through this by ignoring the fact and hoping that
02:11:35
science will find a way until we get there. Yeah.
02:11:45
She she started to lose her her memories of her family because of dementia.
02:11:50
Yeah. So like the normal things on phone she didn't know recognize my voice
02:11:56
first. said that this is a this is a strange
02:12:01
strange disease or whatever how you will call it. It closed so many doors and
02:12:06
opens others. It's a long time memory. Incredible. She recognized ladies in the
02:12:12
street. They were together in primary school stuff like this but didn't know
02:12:17
who we were. So just these kind of things. It's not it's not a competition of things you you forget or whatever.
02:12:23
There are a lot of things you forget and especially for the people and that was my sisters who took care of her
02:12:28
obviously that's not nice if she don't recognize you who are you go away these
02:12:35
things how is that to deal how is that to deal with as a family member when someone you love a parent can no longer
02:12:42
recognize who you are you it's almost like a it sounds like a grief heartbreak
02:12:48
yeah I think obviously my my sisters were around um so For them was harder of
02:12:53
course because they were around. For me it was not a problem at all because I knew she loved me more than our own
02:13:00
life. In a moment she can recognize me anymore that it was not a problem for me. I just felt for her that is that is
02:13:07
really that it's really so that's so hard. Must be so hard. If you have bright moments where oh I know oh my god
02:13:14
you are here but what are you doing here? and then going again. It's it's really it's really not nice and I I I I
02:13:20
really sincerely hope that we find um yeah medication for that. I think
02:13:25
science is in a yeah in a good way but still a a long way to go but thanks for
02:13:32
this picture. I don't I have it on my phone somewhere but I don't have it as a yeah thank you very much.
02:13:38
Faith is a big part of your life as well. Yeah. Your belief in God. Yeah.
02:13:44
And from what I understood, that's not always been the case. When you were a younger man, you weren't religious in the same way that you are
02:13:50
now. Is that accurate or I won't even say I'm religious. I I believe but I don't but I don't know 100% what
02:13:57
religious means to be 100% honest. But it's um this lady, my mom um prayed
02:14:02
every night before going to bed. But problem one thing we prayed the other thing she
02:14:07
said because she couldn't be hard with me. She could she just had no weapons. the only thing she could say, "Don't forget if you do that again, I will have
02:14:13
to tell the dad at the weekend when he's coming back." So, it was like the only threat she had, the only weapon she she
02:14:20
carried around. Um, and I obviously was smart enough to realize that whatever I did, she never told my dad. Um,
02:14:27
um, from time that I went to church, I had a a short spell where I thought
02:14:33
because Sunday morning church was when I played games. I have to go to church. I'm not I cannot play football anymore.
02:14:39
But that lasted exactly one game. So one Sunday they thought God cannot be that
02:14:46
hard. He cannot think that I have to go to church when I love football so much.
02:14:53
It cannot that's it cannot be like that. Um and he isn't I'm pretty sure. So um
02:14:59
yeah I found my way. For me it's for me it's
02:15:06
to live together. We have to make sure that we that we don't think the only
02:15:12
thing what is interesting is my own well-being. We have to make sure that we really understand being alone in a good
02:15:18
position doesn't help. Yes, it's completely normal that we all try to get as far as we can in our career,
02:15:24
in our life and all these kind of things. But it's really important that we make sure that we that we really try to to work properly together, to live
02:15:31
properly together and all these kind of things. For me, this is my faith. It's based on my this this
02:15:39
understanding is based on my faith. So and and common sense obviously and
02:15:45
that's the way I believe and um I think that's the best thing you can say about religion when it's like that that it
02:15:53
keeps people in a good place. If religion can't do that then that's not the right religion
02:16:01
for me. So it's really about that we have to be tolerant. We have to. It's no problem. It's a wonderful planet. It's a
02:16:07
wonderful world we are living in. But it's not for one or two. It's for all of
02:16:13
us. And we have to make sure that that works out. And I think the right faith
02:16:19
can help you with that. But I don't I don't know what is the right way. I only know what is for me. So yeah, for me
02:16:27
it's the right thing to do. And I never doubted it to be honest with all the information you get over in life.
02:16:34
God is real for me and um and Jesus of course. Um yeah.
02:16:42
What goals have you got left to accomplish, Jurgen? What what's what is left on your list, if anything at all?
02:16:47
Because you've got You're right. You're probably halfway through your life, the way things are going in terms of people, the life expectancy increasing.
02:16:54
Halfway through 116. We have the next podcast. Yeah. I want to travel. That's what we're
02:16:59
doing. Start now. I want to be together with Ola as much as we can. But not not that much that she or I don't want to be
02:17:07
around each other anymore because I really think you see people and think what is your husband doing? Oh, he's at home. Oh god. So no no no I'm not that
02:17:14
but I'm very busy. So I'm I'm a lot away. So that's fine. But I want to spend with her with the kids with the
02:17:20
grandkids. I don't have this kind of ambitions. I want to do really well for Red Bull. Really well. I I I feel
02:17:27
already responsible for all the people I work together with. That's a very interesting thing for me. I feel so
02:17:34
quick, really responsible, but I do so I want to do it as good as we can have the
02:17:39
best time possible. Let's see what happens then. But on a private basis, I can tell you with all the things
02:17:44
happening around, stay healthy and enjoy this part of life because you know now
02:17:50
most things happened and most things were really good. There was another time um your age when you are not sure where
02:17:56
you want to go where where can what's possible how safe you will be um and all
02:18:02
these kind of things where will you live in the future so I know where we will live I know how things worked out that's
02:18:09
really good I'm not that old that I cannot move so move and try and do sports and travel and all
02:18:16
these kind of things so I I'm more than happy with the things how they
02:18:23
how they panned out, how they happened. I'm really really happy. I'm surprised how my career was. I I never thought
02:18:30
that. And you cannot plan it and and stuff like this. I'm super happy with my
02:18:36
private life, how it is. Super happy with the Mrs. Super happy with the kids, super happy with the grandkids. It's all
02:18:41
really good. So, what can you want more really without sounding ridiculous that you think, "Oh, you still want that."
02:18:49
and the rest is job. And the job I'd always wanted to do as somehow possible
02:18:55
and that's still the case.
02:19:04
Is he a Man United fan? Why? I don't know. If you ever want a job at
02:19:10
a football club, Manchester United would uh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. After all the time we spent together. Yeah. You want to tell
02:19:16
me that? Yeah. No, but you know it's um it's really it's really interesting to me because I think there's always an
02:19:22
assumption that people want to continue to I don't I don't understand that do the same you because that's what you are
02:19:29
good at. I know I'm good as a manager. I know so why should I I don't have to prove that not even to me I have to
02:19:35
prove that I can raise my hand and tomorrow I can coach club X Y and Zed
02:19:42
clubs who are happy now with sector manager and I don't want that. So, so but to be my best friend that might come
02:19:49
back that I say okay I'm ready that might I don't know today but in this moment it's not that I cannot do what I
02:19:54
do while thinking with one leg being still there I was never like that I
02:20:00
never looked right or left when I was at mines I could have changed the club every year for the first seven it was so
02:20:08
obvious that something is going on there pretty special that clubs want oh we want to have him and I never thought a
02:20:14
second that I want to go there. I wanted to stay at mines to to to do what we do and to learn what I thought I have to
02:20:20
learn. Same at Dortmund, same at Liverpool until I thought it's not right. If that comes again, let's see
02:20:27
what we can what we will do. That's what the decision I wanted. I want didn't want to make the job until I barely can
02:20:33
move. I barely can travel. I barely Mrs. Can you help me? I don't want I didn't
02:20:38
want to do that. Yeah, we're sitting and yes, I'm 25 years older than you, but we
02:20:44
both could probably run around the corner now and it would not be the biggest difference.
02:20:49
You're in great shape. Yeah, that's because I train. That's how it is. But I never did while I was a
02:20:55
manager. That's the next thing. I just grew more and more and more and now uh
02:21:00
we have time for that as well. No, it's good how it is.
02:21:05
Well, you um even as a United fan, you you brought so much to the Premier League that it was it was weirdly sad
02:21:11
also very happy when you decided that you were going to leave. I mean, I I felt two feelings at the same time. I
02:21:16
felt very very happy that this was this Liverpool era in my view was over because I thought there's no way
02:21:22
you leaving. You're more than just a manager. You're the spirit of this city. You're the spirit of the fan base.
02:21:27
You're actually sort of personify the Liverpool fan base in my mind. extremely passionate allin togetherness and as you
02:21:35
know your former I think he was your chairman or owner of mine said you did you brought you brought the team together you then brought the city
02:21:41
together and that had a profound impact both on Liverpool but also on the Premier League and on my enjoyment and
02:21:47
my misery as a rival fan and that's a really really remarkable thing. You've also inspired me as a lot on a personal
02:21:53
level as a leader just about you know everything you said there about how important it is to focus equally on the
02:22:01
people and the team and the togetherness and not just on the tactics and the strategy and how passion can be and a
02:22:06
wonderful accelerant for performance and for feeling like this is special and
02:22:11
that's something that I think you've personified as a leader. We um we have a closing tradition on this podcast where
02:22:18
the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for. Oh.
02:22:23
And the question Oh, it's for me, not a message. Yes. Oh, question that's been left for you.
02:22:31
As you look back on your career, is there a particular moment, a
02:22:37
particular conversation, a particular day that if you could you would go back and
02:22:43
change or say something you wish you had said? I honestly the problem is
02:22:53
I would probably would say no. I don't I wouldn't go back and and and try to
02:22:58
change it because it wouldn't have a big impact. the situations we had,
02:23:04
the big situations I could influence with the things I said, the specific
02:23:09
moments which were then decisive. You just stand there and watch
02:23:15
Aguero in or not in we the same problem with United where things the ball goes
02:23:22
in or the ball is over the line for 11 million or not. That has nothing to do with what I say. Would I wish if I could
02:23:29
go there and give it a little push? Yes. Would I wish James Madison would block
02:23:36
the shot of Vincent Kane that he cannot score the goal against Leicester? Yes. But it had nothing to do with what I
02:23:43
said. And so the things I said I said in the moment for the right reasons. Um,
02:23:53
and sometimes they had the impact I wished and wanted and sometimes not.
02:24:01
Yeah, I had to accept that. That was the other thing that um Jamie Carrager asked. He said, "Oh, when you
02:24:07
see when you see ask him how he feels about his former assistant manager, Pep Lingers going and working
02:24:14
going and working at Manchester City." Absolutely. No problem. I like it. I I like both Peps. That's how it is. No
02:24:20
problem uh with that. Um I worked together with Pep Blinders. He was an inspiration for me every day when we
02:24:27
worked together. Absolutely every day. I learned a lot from him. And Pep Guardiola I couldn't respect a manager
02:24:34
more. Um and when they asked me like a bit what do you think can we? Of course
02:24:41
you can. Pepinos I said come on find a guy who worked together with Pep Liners
02:24:46
Pep Gardula and Jurgen club. I would read the book.
02:24:53
Uh, and yeah, and Pep knew exactly Pep um Gardula knew exactly what he was looking for. Yeah, he wanted to, you
02:24:59
know, want exactly this kind of um spark fire from and Pep has that. Pep is
02:25:08
Pep Lions has that. He is an extreme well of of energy and um so I'm happy
02:25:15
for them both. We're playing you guys. Um this week, this weekend on Sunday. What?
02:25:21
United. Manchester United Liverpool this Sunday. You didn't know. It's at Anfield. It's a Premier League,
02:25:28
Dar. That's crazy that you don't know. Yeah. Yeah. But hopefully after So this will come out just after that. So I'm hoping
02:25:34
that's four losses. Oh, we come after that. When when do we get
02:25:39
hopefully the day after, but we'll see. Um so hopefully this is your fourth Liverpool's fourth loss in a row. And uh
02:25:47
the fan base are growing increasingly impatient and they're annoyed and Amarim has now won another another game in a
02:25:53
row. So this is this conversation will come out straight after. Wow.
02:25:59
Now we playing at Anfield. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck.
02:26:06
They have to strike back. Yeah. You know that's never a good situation. Yeah. You know that two days ago. So I just in
02:26:13
the morning I wake up pretty early in the morning. So I I I throw on YouTube and have a look and then it shows me
02:26:18
behind the scenes footage from the 7. The 7? Oh gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I never saw that.
02:26:25
I never saw it but it's like the 7. Obviously I know the goals and stuff but it's the camera different. It's in the stands and it's really good. So okay
02:26:32
fine. I watch it 19 minutes really good. So all the goals again and you see players in the dressing room all the way
02:26:38
to the dress room. Really good. The next day I I open and because I you know how
02:26:44
it is with the algorithm now I see the 5-nil at at Manchester. So and I watch
02:26:51
that and today I come here and had no clue that you are Manchester United fan. So I I was really well prepared for that
02:26:56
talk I have to say without knowing. Yeah.
02:27:02
Damn. Yeah. Thank you so much Jagen. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you for being an inspiration to me, but also thank you for all that you brought to
02:27:08
the Northwest and to Liverpool. Sure. Thanks. Welcome. It was my pleasure.
02:27:13
Honestly, thank you so much. And I I' I've learned so much from you as a leader and also as a man. And in the leadup to this, I spoke to so many
02:27:19
people around you that have worked with you. I contacted Jordan Henderson. I spoke to um Carrager, who knows you
02:27:24
through various people. I think he managed him for one game, he said. Yeah. Yeah. In Australia. In the Australia game. And they all said
02:27:30
the same thing. They all said that you're the same man on and off the camera. You're a person that brings people together. you're extremely likable, but you have high standards and
02:27:37
are an incredibly passionate person. And that the the narrative was consistently here is the same man on and off camera.
02:27:43
Um, which is a credit to yourself and no wonder why people were willing to walk through fire with you. Yeah.
02:27:49
Um, it's it's incredible what you've accomplished and I hope selfishly as a football fan, I hope we we see you back
02:27:54
in the game at some point. Maybe Real Madrid or Manchester United, you know, whatever. You never know. You never know.
02:28:00
Thank you so much. Heat. Heat. [Music]
02:28:12
Heat. Heat.
02:28:21
[Music]
