00:00:00
Do you have a favorite um of your of your memes? Calling Trump tiny hands was nice. You're getting prayed over by
00:00:05
Tucker Carlson and Kid Rock and an angelic hulk. Oh, that was my favorite. There's a lot of user generated chesty stuff going on with you there.
00:00:12
Yeah, they finally did some untouched photos of me without a shirt on, which is good to finally see something that's not edited.
00:00:24
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Carara Swisser and this is
00:00:30
the final day of Scottree August.
00:00:39
That's my sting. I love it. We're going big for Scottree August grand finale. My guest co-host is a podcaster. He's also
00:00:46
the governor of California and possibly the only person that could match Scott
00:00:52
in irritating me. It's Gavin Newsome. Welcome, Governor. Uh, it is great to be with you. The
00:00:58
final The final day. When When's Scott back? When's he back? After Labor Day. We have a day off on
00:01:05
Labor Day because we labor a lot. Yeah. And then he's back and then he's Okay. Where's he been hibernating? Is he
00:01:11
writing a book? What's he doing? What What's What's the No, he's in Nantucket. He's in Nantucket or in Aspen. He goes to like rich people
00:01:18
vacations all over the place. and then and then starts tweeting at the end of August cuz he wants to say something
00:01:24
about not tweeting. He's on threads and stuff, but he like starts to try to engage again and he's desperate to get
00:01:30
back. It's good to be back with you on this very special final episode of Scott Free
00:01:37
August. Yes, thank you. Try to keep the hand gestures to a minimum. I know. I'm very sensitive.
00:01:43
People didn't see Trump attack my hand motions. He said there was uh So, I'm very sensitive now. You're right. I'm
00:01:48
going to I'm just going to forgive me. You're not going to see them again. I'll do my best. No, I like your hand motions. It's such
00:01:54
What's wrong with you? He does a lot of hand motions. Every accusation is a confusion. That was just another another example of
00:02:00
projection. Just one more one more than you need. Projection. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to get to that
00:02:06
today. We've got lots of important issues. Redistricting, the Fed, big tech. Um, so talk I think the most
00:02:12
important thing we have to discuss is what do you think about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce's engagement? I think it's hard not to to
00:02:18
breaking the internet. Breaking the internet. I I was just thinking, you think it's going to be a big wedding or
00:02:23
a small wedding? You think they'll do the opposite of what many think people think? And where are they going to get
00:02:28
married? Where are they going? Like a Jeff Bezos thing? Yeah, I think it's going to be a little more I my sense is going to be smaller,
00:02:34
more I just think they're going to intentionally do something to surprise people. Oh, interesting. Not like a Super Bowl
00:02:41
stadium kind of. I don't I don't expect it's going to be all that. No, I think it's going to be family. I think it's going to be much
00:02:46
more just communal. I just I don't expect it to be over the top. Did it catch you off guard? No, they didn't catch me off guard.
00:02:52
No. Are you going to be invited? Come on. I don't know the I don't know them. That's I'm literally never met
00:02:58
either of them. I do have a one, you know. Sorry. I'm mean to do a little Trump thing on you, but I have a
00:03:04
vineyard uh that is that's 13th vineyard. It's a 13th license uh in
00:03:10
Napa. And so I sent a bottle of 13th wine uh to her suite at the Super Bowl.
00:03:17
That's my biggest connection to Taylor Swift. I have no other connection because she loves she loves the number
00:03:24
on your vineyard. Do you think she'd No, I'm not promoting that. Do you think she'd have I mean that's as close as I am to Taylor
00:03:30
Swift besides politics. Clearly we share politics. Okay. All right. Are you happy? Do you
00:03:35
think this is a good thing? I think it's a great thing. I want her to be happy. She seems like a lovely person and he's the real deal. The deep
00:03:43
respect for him. So, you know what? We need more. We need a little bit of happiness in a world where we're so f I
00:03:49
mean, come on. This been hard every day, including what happened this morning uh the first week of school, right, in
00:03:54
Minneapolis. So, this is uh so we can all use a little bit of that, a little bit of love.
00:03:59
That's true. That's true. We can move on if you tell me your favorite song of hers.
00:04:07
Well, it's I I like all of her new songs from the old uh from the old catalog.
00:04:13
So, this proving I'm a Swifty. The old catalog. No. Well, like the old cat, but I like
00:04:18
all the new versions, Taylor versions of all the new songs. So, that's how comprehensive my respect
00:04:24
for her and love is. Okay. All right. I'll move on from her. Anyway, we wish you well, Travis. I
00:04:30
mean, Travis and and Taylor, it's going to be good. TT, it's going to be great. Um, uh, mayor, get married in
00:04:35
California, right? Get married. I hope so. Yeah, I expect so. That's my little pitch. But I want to ask you about a less dynamic duo, Sean
00:04:42
Handy and Florida Governor Rhonda Santis. They've challenged you to another debate. Will you accept getting on the little news first?
00:04:48
Well, I think it's interesting that they challenged me because it only reinforced the first debate was Sean Hannity and
00:04:55
Ronda Santis. It wasn't against Ronda Santis and the network and the platform itself, Fox. Uh, I think they're uh I
00:05:02
forgot. I I don't mean to be too dismissive, but honestly, I kind of forgot that Ronda Santis is still
00:05:07
governor. Uh, and it was sort of a bit of a reminder, and I think maybe that's that's what it's all about.
00:05:13
Yeah, I think they're having a hard time over there at Fox. Would you do it? I have no interest whatsoever.
00:05:18
Literally, it's subzero interest. You become quite a bit of the of the debate over there. Like, they talk about
00:05:24
you constantly. Yeah. No, it's a it's a bit of an obsession. Uh and uh and so no, he's uh
00:05:31
uh Sean and I have uh I don't know, we're a little bit of separation now. Uh
00:05:37
I was gauging, you know, as you know, I went out a couple years ago on a serious note, a really sort of challenged a lot
00:05:44
of my Democratic friends were upset started showing up on Fox. I did this sitdown interview with Sean. It was over
00:05:50
an hour and a half. Uh you know, unedited. I said, "Look, if you're going to come and interview me, let's do it."
00:05:56
but I no edits and let's, you know, go after me and I'll, you know, back and forth. And to his credit, they did
00:06:03
multiple segments and and aired the entire interview, uh, unedited and, you know, I sort of stayed in touch and that
00:06:09
ultimately led to a debate uh, with Ron DeSantis and and and a debate within my own party. Should we even condone?
00:06:16
Should we show up? Should we be on these platforms? You're just elevating, you know, them or at least validating them
00:06:22
in some respects. And I thought it was important that we got to meet people where they are and we've got to get in the bloodstream of of those we disagree
00:06:28
with. And so I try to maintain that and I think it's important. Uh but I think they're they've they're way out they've
00:06:35
completely lost the plot over there at Fox. So let So are you going to do the debate
00:06:40
or not? I'm not I have no interest in the debate. Every single night they're moved on from Ron. There's a a bit of a, you
00:06:46
know, I I I look, I'm the first to acknowledge the Trump derangement syndrome, but they have a California derangement syndrome and increasingly a
00:06:53
derangement syndrome about me on Fox. I think the other night they did seven or eight segments uh with their prime time
00:06:58
lineup. It's it's a little it's not over the top. It's it's way over the top. And of course, at this moment, you may know
00:07:05
this, I'm suing them as well for defamation. And I don't do that lightly. I I'm I'm been on the receiving end of
00:07:11
them as punching bag for years and years and years. It's not about the criticism coming out of there. It's just the just
00:07:17
outright lies, miss, and disinformation. And so we we're taking them to task and
00:07:22
we've got that defamation lawsuit. Lawsuits about a conversation you had with Donald Trump, right?
00:07:27
Yeah. A conversation they said I that uh that never that we never had. The president said we had a day before that
00:07:34
never existed. Uh and uh and they came out and they said I lied about it. And they they they shared that uh on all
00:07:41
their platforms and they shared that around the world. I had people honestly it was like interesting Carol for all
00:07:47
the stuff that's on Fox you know people are socialized they turn on Fox they'll they'll see people like me getting
00:07:53
attacked but this this one broke into folks that I knew well said hey man why why'd you lie about that? I said what do
00:08:00
you mean I lied about it? And I, you know, saw the Chiron. It says Gavin li. And it was just they knowingly lied
00:08:07
about the conversation uh that never occurred and the conversation that did
00:08:12
occur uh they did not contextualize and they just crossed the line and you know I thought after all the Dominion stuff
00:08:19
and everything else uh they had honestly at least at least fain to change their ways and they clearly haven't.
00:08:25
Yeah. Well, we'll see what happens there. But one of the things that's important is you are the topic discussion. Part of it is because of the
00:08:31
stuff you're up to right now, which I think is really interesting, as you know. Um, we've talked about it a little bit. We texted about it. But I want to
00:08:37
talk about your new role, I guess, trollin-chief. I don't know, as one newspaper put it, but in the last few
00:08:42
weeks, you've flooded social media with all caps post, insults, AI generated memes, mocking Trump and his policies.
00:08:48
You recently got into the merch game, selling mag inspired Bibles, red hats, and even Make America Gavin Again flag,
00:08:54
which is really funny. Fox News has been melting down, as you said. Dana Pino said, "If she were your wife, she'd tell
00:09:00
you're making a fool of yourself." And while a lot of liberals are on this, you have uh critics on the left, of course, who say the Democrat needs party needs
00:09:06
to do more than be an anti-Trump party. I disagree. I think this is highly effective, especially that you're not
00:09:12
stopping. So, talk about the strategy. Well, I just wanted to put a mirror up to the absurdity of all of this, and I
00:09:18
wish Dana Pino and others have made that point months and months, years ago. all the old cap tweets that Trump putting
00:09:24
himself on memes as the pope or putting him means of Superman or with his shirt
00:09:30
off and and you know and uh on top of uh you know different you know you know uh
00:09:35
superhero characters or you know dinosaurs. I mean it just it's comical and yet it's become so normalized and
00:09:43
socialized in a way that's not even critiqued uh in the extreme right. And so I just wanted to challenge that and
00:09:50
challenge all these pundits out there. challenge all these people, all these acolytes, people that are just fawning over a guy who puts his picture up on uh
00:09:57
Mount Rushmore, uh that does it does text like a 13-year-old or a
00:10:02
10-year-old. Uh it's humiliating. It's embarrassing. And so this is the this is
00:10:07
the mirror and it's a mirror not just to Trump himself uh but to these you know
00:10:12
these networks that uh you know the the you know these guys are talk about you know these are the chat bots for the
00:10:18
administration and it's not just Fox it's one American news it's Newsmax and it's all the folks in the right-wing
00:10:24
media and uh I'm glad they're melting down over I'm glad they're they're they're challen I mean they their situational unawareness is rather
00:10:31
jaw-dropping. So what was the strategy? how did you come up with it? Um and and you you you
00:10:37
have given credit to the whole team in creating these memes. But it does someone asked me about it. I said,
00:10:42
"Well, just this does sound like him, the person I know." I appreciate it. Look, I think it's there's there's um
00:10:48
there's um there's one answer to that and then there's a subtext. This thing really is it's about iteration. I've
00:10:54
always been willing to try new things. So, I'm always trying uh to, you know, challenge my team. Just let's see what
00:11:01
works. I mean, that's why I went on Fox. That's why I did the debate with Ronda Santis. Why I went I was one of the first Democrats to go on True Social.
00:11:07
That's why I started a pack a few years ago and only went to red states and started raising awareness and and
00:11:13
resources in parts of the country where I feel the Democratic party walked away. And and so it's part of that, but it's
00:11:18
also specifically part of what we were what we were on the receiving end of
00:11:23
after the fires in January in LA. Uh and before that and and just a different level of of miss and disinformation. And
00:11:31
to your point about before that, look, the recall these guys I, you know, I'm I'm romantic. I always think all
00:11:36
politics is local. I was sort of born and bred with that construct. But that's not the case obviously. And I
00:11:42
intellectualize that, but I never fully internalized it until the recall. And I had guys like Nuke Gingri, and I I had
00:11:48
folks like Mike Huckabe and the RNC nationalizing their grievance. And of course, all the folks at Fox and One
00:11:55
American News, etc., coming after us. So I started to shift our approach. Then it really got into high gear after the
00:12:02
fires where Trump and Elon Musk were coming after us and they were winning on the just rank lies about water policy
00:12:08
and all the BS. But the National Guard, the care of the National Guard and what
00:12:14
they did to federalize 4,000 uh of our National Guard men and women and put 700 active duty military uh on the streets
00:12:21
of LA. That's when we just said, "We're on the other side of this." And we told the team, um, it's no permission slip
00:12:29
now, not even forgiveness. You just go and we go hard and we don't stop.
00:12:34
And you don't stop. That's what's interesting about it because it's relentless, which is very different. I had told, I think it was Kla Harris,
00:12:40
like you've got to be almost promiscuous now from a social media point of view. You have to be everywhere constantly and
00:12:47
not stopping, which I think characterizes this quite a bit. And do when you hear criticism is too much or
00:12:52
cringy or even from the left or right, how how do you answer that? I you know how I answered it? Kind of
00:12:58
interesting. Uh because I haven't really said this publicly, but um I send my team a uh a YouTube video of Marshon
00:13:05
Lynch on 60 minutes sports when he was asked his running style and he says
00:13:11
going into the front line goes over and over and over and over and over and over
00:13:16
and over and over and over again. Um and and and so this notion of communication,
00:13:22
I could not agree with you more. Trump's success is the simplicity to which he communicates the same thing in that
00:13:28
cadence over and over and over and over and over again. And we move week to week. It's infrastructure week and all
00:13:34
of a sudden it's childcare week and it's foster care week. Uh and as a consequence, we have weak messaging and
00:13:40
they're winning the narrative war. Illusion rules, facts don't matter. That's what Fox understands. That's what
00:13:45
Trump understands. he floods the zone and we're constantly on our heels and not on our front toes. And so what we're
00:13:52
trying to do is yes fight fire with fire with the redistricting substance and in
00:13:57
terms of our communication style and we're trying to keep at it and we've done it. Look, you mentioned, you know,
00:14:03
the the the Patriot store, you know, I mean, just look at the stuff he's selling. Perfumes. Yeah, this is
00:14:08
embarrassing. The guy's hawking Bibles. Ours is sold out. So if you want it, sorry, it's sold out. Um
00:14:14
I was hoping to get one. And if you want a real prediction, I know we talked about the the Taylor Swift prediction.
00:14:19
Uh the real prediction is, you know, we're about to put a meme coin out. And you know what, Donald Trump? Uh we'll see how well your coin does versus our
00:14:26
coin. I mean, I we're just trying trying to tune up turn up the heat and trying
00:14:33
to tune people into the absurdity. Is it going to be called Gavin Coin? No, it's I think Trump corruption coin.
00:14:39
Oh, okay. Yeah, that's a little This is one of the great grifters of our time. This is just jaw-dropping. And
00:14:44
none of this is normal. Again, this none of this is funny. I mean, it's funny in one respect, but it's like it's
00:14:50
extraordinary what's going on. It's jaw-dropping. His family is sent out
00:14:55
before these foreign trips doing deals. Deals are literally done before tariffs
00:15:01
are imposed. The crony capitalism that's going on, the people that are selling their souls uh in this country, the fact
00:15:08
that you saw there, these guys bloiating at that. I mean that was I mean insanity
00:15:13
yesterday at the cabinet meeting and Lutnik talking about socializing and nationalizing companies like Lockheed. I
00:15:20
mean this is and you're worried about Mandani and some grocery stores and these guys are taking tithings from AMD
00:15:27
15% from Nvidia. I mean this is serious stuff. And so the the graft and the
00:15:33
corruption uh the self-deing um is uh is something that we'll continue to call
00:15:38
out and and just to be I I'm I'm I'm really worried about this country. I think we've crossed the red line. I
00:15:45
think it is much more acute and profound uh than than many people think and I
00:15:50
just trying to wake people up. That's what this is all about. Wake up everybody. What is the next what is the
00:15:56
ne is it has to be this aggression correct which I again I think is the correct method others you know I think
00:16:02
the democratic party is far too weak in that regard in terms of behaving when they're not behaving right that kind of
00:16:09
thing yeah look I mean I I I it was so indelible I don't know why I'm sort of you know stuck uh years and years my
00:16:16
mindset I remember uh you know and it's it's been well discussed but I I'll
00:16:22
repeat it for the few folks that don't remember it. But after we got shellacked in one of the midterms, I think Clinton
00:16:27
was out of office and the Democratic party lost and people were trying to sort of hand ring and we were trying to
00:16:32
figure out if we all need to go to Applebee's and we were reading Applebee's America and we all just, you know, we need to, you know, we we need
00:16:38
to go to the heartland, all this messaging stuff. And Bill Clinton just summed it up. He said, "Given the choice, given the choice, the American
00:16:44
people always support strong and wrong versus weak and right." And I've been
00:16:49
doing a lot of forensics as you know and and people have criticized me for having folks that you know my party disagrees
00:16:57
with vehemently like Charlie Kirk or Steve Bannon or Nuke Gingrage or even you know old school uh conservatives
00:17:04
like uh Michael Savage on I it's to try to understand what the hell's happened to my party, the Democratic party. But
00:17:11
the more I've sort of mined it, the more I've gotten into the issues and reflected uh on what's happened, I think
00:17:17
it comes down, I mean, at the core, it comes down to what you just said, it's about weakness.
00:17:23
We appear so damn weak. And I I can't take it anymore. And I think we our
00:17:28
brand is struggled. We're suffering from that. And so what I'm trying to express,
00:17:34
it is desired to push back to punch these guys back in the mouth. Forgive me. I I know it's hard. Yes. Fight fire
00:17:41
with fire and just I wish you had punched harder with those interviews. So in that my whole thing was for example the Tucker Carl's
00:17:47
interview with Ted Cruz was a lot better than yours with Bannon. That's what I would say. That's you know what I mean? You had an opportunity to engage with
00:17:52
him. Why not engage? Well, you know this and and forgive me uh you know that was my second ever
00:17:58
podcast. I'm not the pro that some of these others are but I appreciate the insight. But also, let me say this and
00:18:04
and sincerely, that's not that's I I when I started the podcast, I said I was
00:18:09
very clear what this is and what this wasn't. I said, I'm not you want to see me debate, see tune in to Fox, you know,
00:18:15
go online, see what I do every single day. I have no problem fighting these guys. I have no fighting debating. But
00:18:21
what that but what I'm trying to do is have a civil conversation because I want to understand what you know is I think
00:18:28
the amazing thing about the Bannon interview was I thought I was interviewing Bernie Sanders for half of it. He was talking about populism. He
00:18:34
was making the case for California's tax code. Steve Bannon was uh and you know I thought it was there
00:18:40
was interesting aspects of that and I think we're so tuned up in terms of wanting to tune people out because we
00:18:47
reject obvious flaws that I want to create a space for folks where at least they can feel like we can have a civil
00:18:53
dialogue and I totally get people upset about it. They they rather seem nervous about you now which is why hence the attacks.
00:19:00
Correct. Presumably that's what it's seems to be working for you right against them. And I I'm trying not to
00:19:06
make it for me. I look I I do think, you know, once a mind is stretched and never goes back to its original form. I think
00:19:11
Donald Trump understands that. That's why he throws things out. He sees what works. He's got his focus group, which
00:19:17
is his rallies. And is increasingly he's doing that with the media. He does that every day, sort of testing those
00:19:22
boundaries. And I'm I'm I'm trying to do the same a little bit as it relates to communication style, how we're
00:19:28
iterating, trying new things, and and trying to encourage other people. I'll take the arrows in the back. I'll I'll
00:19:33
I'll do the first mover, but but hopefully get other people to feel a little more comfortable in that space.
00:19:39
And uh you know, I see it a little bit. I saw Ken Martin at the DNC. He was a little more aggress. I I like I feel
00:19:45
like we're getting back on our feet. Okay. So, do you have a I want to get to the more serious thing of the redistricting, but what do you have a
00:19:50
favorite um of your of your memes? Calling Trump tiny hands was nice. You're getting prayed over by Tucker
00:19:56
Carlson and Kid Rock and an angelic holoca. There's a lot of userenerated chesty stuff going on with you there.
00:20:02
Yeah, they finally did some untouched photos of me without a shirt on, which is good to finally see something that's
00:20:07
not edited. Is there one that you like that you're like, "Well done."
00:20:12
No, I I thought it's a team of people, right? I I Come on. I I think God bless Hulk. I
00:20:18
I'm sorry for his passing, his family's loss, but I think that Tucker Kid Rock,
00:20:23
come on. That's why it's a t-shirt. It's available on the Patriot site. Uh, and you know, and and before the meme coin,
00:20:29
uh, as I said, the Bible's already sold out and, uh, I I'd encourage you to that's going to be limited edition, that
00:20:35
that t-shirt. Okay. I'm excited for the stake. Where do the proceeds from the Patriot Shop go? And the memecoin.
00:20:41
Yeah. Well, the meme coin that will soon be the Trump corruption coin available uh to all of you. Uh, all of those go to
00:20:47
our campaign for democracy. They go for uh this effort on the redistricting. They go into they go into this effort.
00:20:54
they go into our effort to continue uh to raise awareness and continue to communicate and organize.
00:21:00
Um but let's talk more seriously. Your trolling has kicked into high gear about redistricting fight that started in
00:21:05
Texas and quickly spread across the country. You signed two redistream bills last week and called the special election for voters to approve the new
00:21:11
congressional map aimed at countering Texas adding five new GOP seats. Um if the ballot measure passes, Democrats
00:21:17
could pick up as many as five House seats in 2026. And meanwhile, Trump said this week the DOJ will sue California
00:21:23
over the move. Um, it's also re uh divisive a little bit. Former California
00:21:29
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has been vocal in opposing the plan, but on the other hand, Danny DeVito chipped in $1,000 to support it for people who
00:21:35
don't know that. Um, you're driving a wedge between the classic twins stars from the 80s.
00:21:41
Um, talk a little bit about what you're doing here. And of course, there's been innumerable think pieces of is it has he
00:21:47
bitten off more than he can chew? Is this the way to go? Could other red state governors start to participate as
00:21:53
well as blue state govern but of course they're going to do that
00:21:58
anyway. I mean that I that punditry is so naive it's not even worth the paper it's printed on. I mean the idea that
00:22:04
that Trump was going to stop at Texas was absurd to begin with. Remember it was Trump who started this. Uh they drew
00:22:11
proverb first blood. It was Trump that called Abbott said I am entitled. not the words he used in that first phone
00:22:17
call, but weeks later he said he's entitled to five seats. He is trying to rig the election before one vote is
00:22:23
cast. What more evidence did we need than January 6 where he tried to light democracy on fire and wreck this country
00:22:30
and try to dial up for 11 almost 12,000 votes to the Secretary of State in
00:22:35
Georgia. Now he's doing it in plain sight. You saw in yesterday he was in the Oval Office with the speaker of the
00:22:42
Indiana legislature and the Senate. uh chair saying we need to do what JD Vance
00:22:49
was assigned to tell you to do a week ago. You need to move in Indiana in Missouri. And of course, uh Ronda Santis
00:22:56
will do anything the guy asks in order to get back in his good graces. So these guys are going. They're not screwing
00:23:02
around. And we can't screw around either. And so yeah, we're pushing back. We'll we'll neutralize what's happened
00:23:09
in Texas, but we need other Democrat in other states to do the same thing. This
00:23:15
is it. You don't get a doover. This thing can end. How are you or how are
00:23:20
you organizing them? Well, we're I'm trying to back to this notion once the mind is I'm hoping the legislative leaders in those states are
00:23:27
putting pressure. I know the governors like Moore and others. Wes Moore uh has talked about it in Maryland. Obviously
00:23:33
Kathy Hokll's talked a little bit about it. Uh Pritskar's talked a bit about it. But we got to move. You know it as we
00:23:40
pray. We have to move our feet. It's action. So we got to go. And look, back to biting off a lot. We can ch I get
00:23:46
that, you know, we had to do it in a different way. We're doing it in a transparent way, a temporary way where
00:23:52
we're keeping our independent redistricting, which we've had for 15 years, but in a temporary basis. We're
00:23:57
responding to what Trump has done and what Texas has done and an emergency manner in 26, 28, and and and in 2030
00:24:05
for congressional seats only. And we're doing it in the most democratic way of any state in US history. There's never
00:24:12
been maps put to the voters so they'll decide for themselves as opposed to the to the serpent
00:24:17
majority in a in a state or or whatever Mara Lago map you know
00:24:22
writing folks are are sending their way which I mean this is so you know this
00:24:27
this is the contrast in the approach um and and again we're just we're trying to
00:24:33
be accountable to this moment I I'm not interested in holding hands and talking about the world should be I I'm not
00:24:39
going to be the exgovernor sitting there in some think tank putting out a white paper saying dem you know I I can't take
00:24:45
that anymore enough everybody we got to get in the right you feel that you'll be able to neutralize you and other blue state
00:24:52
governors be able to do that I just you know I hope so but even if we can't they know they're Trump did this
00:24:58
because he knows he's going to lose and he knows he's going to lose because he's singularly the most in Iowa yeah he's the most but he's the lost
00:25:05
yesterday in Iowa in that in that local race which was great that statewide race but the point He continues to lose. He's
00:25:11
going to lose in Virginia. He's going to lose in New Jersey in those governor's races. He continue uh to see his polls
00:25:17
are some of the worst in American history. His policies are the most unpopular uh in modern American history.
00:25:23
He's flailing every single day. That's what all these threats and the mortgage stuff is all about. Going after enemies,
00:25:29
threatening to arrest people. He's falling apart. Uh and as I, you know, continue to say, he's weakness
00:25:35
masquerading as strength. And so we have to be assertive and we have to recognize
00:25:41
that there are no limits with this guy and he'll do if he can rig next year's election. You're not I mean we joke
00:25:48
about not having another one. I don't think that's a joke. He will wire this for the next 2030 years. If it's a JD or
00:25:56
if it's a D I don't it doesn't even matter. He will wire it. He's already sending out mass people uh to intimidate
00:26:04
folks. When we launched our campaign, he did it down in Little Tokyo in LA. Do you think ICE is not going to show up
00:26:11
around voting and polling booths to chill participation? You know that the National Guard, you know that everybody
00:26:18
knows what's at stake. So, we have to put a stake in the ground and do things differently for all the funny stuff you're doing.
00:26:23
You're you're absolutely right. And what do you say to people like Schwarzenegger and others Munger who want who are like, let's not do this. Let's let's not go
00:26:30
here. Well, it's romantic. I want to I I we can do a group hug. Uh we can you know
00:26:36
we can talk, you know. I I want to I want to go back to that place, too, but we're not in it. I mean, it's just a
00:26:41
they've lost the plot about the world we're living in right now. Trump doesn't play by a different set of rules. He
00:26:48
doesn't play by any rules. You're a fool if you engage in a contest playing by
00:26:55
the rules and the other side doesn't play by any rules. The consequence of
00:27:01
that are profound. This is about our the architecture of our country. This is about co-equal branches of government,
00:27:07
popular sovereignty. This is about the rule of law versus the rule of dawn. There is no independent redistricting to
00:27:15
those two in the future. If Trump wires this election, there's none. It's over.
00:27:21
They have to recognize that. And and I I get why they're holding on uh to this
00:27:26
this romantic notion. And by the way, I respect their point of view so much so that we maintain the independent
00:27:33
redistricting commission, but in an emergency manner, we respond to this moment.
00:27:38
So, summed up, it's the Patrick sees roadhouse rule. Be be nice until it's time not to be nice.
00:27:44
Yeah. I mean, you know, I guess and look, I we all want to be nice and we
00:27:49
all want to get back to that, you know, we we want the the Aaron Sorcin. We want the music in the background. I want
00:27:54
that. We all want to go back to West Wing, you And I want to see, you know, but uh that's not that's not Trump's
00:28:00
America and it may not be the United States of America if we don't wake up. Wake up everybody.
00:28:06
All right, Governor. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump's unprecedented move to control the Fed. Another version of this. Support for
00:28:13
Pivot comes from Grunes. If you've ever done a deep internet dive trying to discover different nutrition solutions,
00:28:20
you've likely had the thought, "Surely there's a way to improve my skin, gut health, immunity, brain fog without
00:28:26
offending my taste buds." Well, there is. It's called Gruns. Gruns are a convenient, comprehensive formula packed
00:28:32
into a daily snack pack of gummies. It's not a multivitamin, a greens gummy, or a
00:28:37
prebiotic. It's all of those things and then some for a fraction of the price. In a Grun's daily snack pack, you get
00:28:44
more than 20 vitamins and minerals, six grams of prebiotic fiber, plus more than 60 ingredients. They include
00:28:51
nutrient-dense and whole foods, all of which will help you out in different ways. For example, Gruns has six times
00:28:56
the gut health ingredients compared to the leading greens powders. It contains biotin and niacinomide, which helps with
00:29:03
thicker hair, nails, and skin health. They also contain mushrooms, which can help with brain function. And of course,
00:29:10
you're probably familiar with vitamin C and how great it's for your immune system. On top of all, Gruns are vegan
00:29:15
and free of dairy, nuts, and gluten. Get up to 52% off when you go to goons.co
00:29:20
and use the code pivot. That's g ru ns.co using the code pivot for 52% off.
00:29:32
Governor Nome, we're back. But uh President Trump is escalating his push to control the Federal Reserve, announcing this week he's removing
00:29:38
Federal Governor Lisa Cook. Trump posted his letter to Cook on True Social, saying there was quote sufficient cause
00:29:43
for removal, citing unproven allegations of mortgage fraud. Cook plans to sue with her lawyer, arguing Trump has no
00:29:49
authority to order the firing. It looks like that the Fed for its part is defending its independence, but says it will by whatever the courts decide. This
00:29:56
is almost certainly going to the Supreme Court. um talk a little bit about this and then I want to talk about what's
00:30:01
happening in the cities that you referenced before. No, I mean it's it's what we were just talking about in the last section. It's it's not the rule of law, it's the rule
00:30:08
of dawn. Um there's there no constraints anymore. Uh and with this Supreme Court,
00:30:14
there may actually not be any constraints. Already eliminated one co-equal branch of government. Ron
00:30:19
Johnson's run to the woods. He's it's irrelevant. Uh so it's Mike Johnson. It's whatever his name is. Uh he's the
00:30:27
representative of a district shreport Lena that has six times the murder rate of Nancy Pelosi San Francisco. It's that
00:30:33
guy that I'm referring to. Um and and so there is no co-equal branch government. And the question is is there a third
00:30:40
branch, the uh the judicial branch and with the Supreme Court, it's an open-ended question. And so it's an
00:30:46
open-ended question of whether or not he quote unquote for cause uh can have her fired. And if he can have her fired, he
00:30:53
can have any of the board members fired, not just Chair Powell. And then he can start getting rid of all the regional presidents. So now you don't have an
00:30:59
independent uh monetary system. You don't have the truth and trust around the globe. Um and now we're in what,
00:31:06
Argentina? We're in Turkey. Uh we're back to, you know, the good old days of Nixon and you know, the inflationary
00:31:13
impacts of his decisions and impacts on the Fed policy that we all enjoyed in the 70s. And and so this is again just
00:31:20
another pro point of the world we're living in and why it's essential that everyone disabuse themselves that we can
00:31:28
operate as we have in the past. Do you imagine where he's going to strike next? I'm obviously he's talking
00:31:34
of militarizing more cities. Um as we talk on Wednesday, the president is still suggesting Chicago, Baltimore, and
00:31:39
New York are next. He's mentioned San Francisco. The president has said, quote, "I have the right to do anything I want. I'm the president of the United
00:31:45
States in response to sending the National Guard to Chicago. Speaking of deploying troops uh to Baltimore, Trump
00:31:50
wrote, "If Wesmore needs help like Gavin Newsum did in LA, I will send in the troops." Meanwhile, in DC, the National
00:31:57
Guard who were sent to deal with a crime emergencies have been picking up trash as a part of a beautifification mission.
00:32:02
What What say you? Because you did he help you in LA? Yeah. No, I mean, we could have we could
00:32:08
have used the help because we had to protect the National Guard. Uh we could have used the help after he he
00:32:13
federalized them. Uh it was the California Highway Patrol and the LAPD that actually had to protect the military uh because that became the
00:32:20
attractive nuisance for protests. Um but he offered no help in that respect. Uh the vast majority I'll rec
00:32:28
um thousands and thousands of our National Guard, by the way, police officers, firefighters, teachers, um
00:32:36
that were pulled off the beat uh and their day jobs uh ended up in the
00:32:41
armories doing literally nothing. hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers money. They had nothing to do
00:32:47
and the few hundred that were assigned at any different time again had to be protected by local law enforcement. So
00:32:54
this isn't obviously none of this has anything to do with public safety. Quite the contrary. It's about power,
00:33:00
dominance, and aggression. The only thing he understands and the question is does he have the legal right? And we
00:33:05
completely reject that. And I say that because I think it's important to highlight for your audience. Um we are
00:33:12
not just saying that we have asserted that and we were in federal court uh two weeks ago doing oral arguments. We
00:33:18
deposed members of the Trump administration under the posi commitatus framework that the US military cannot be
00:33:25
deployed for domestic law enforcement purposes. and Justice Brier is about to adjudicate have the first judgment,
00:33:32
first opinion that will be published ever on the Posi Kamatus case that could
00:33:37
have a real impact um on what Trump is doing all across the United States. And
00:33:43
so we're we're trying to assert ourselves uh in the courts, not just the court of public opinion, and push back
00:33:50
against what he's doing. But I said this literally months ago that LA is a
00:33:57
preview of things to come. Uh DC is a preview of things to come in every major city across this country.
00:34:03
What do you do if you're a guy? You you can't keep them out. Correct. You could you couldn't the troops into California.
00:34:10
No, we just have the legal authority to at least fight it out in the courts. And
00:34:15
we hope the rule of law and the constitutional provisions that have we've enjoyed and frankly often taken
00:34:22
for granted for 249 years um uh ultimately win the day. But yeah, you're
00:34:27
right. I mean, he has the legal right to federalize troops. He doesn't have the legal right, however, uh to militarize
00:34:33
our seat for streets for domestic law enforcement. And that is crystal clear under the Posi Commitatus Act. And those
00:34:40
limits are very very clear and and and it's a question of whether or not ultimately the United States Supreme
00:34:46
Court will agree with that. And uh and that's an open-ended question sadly.
00:34:51
How do but do they c can those mayors in Chicago, Baltimore, and New York keep
00:34:56
them out? Now, they have no they they can't legally unless the
00:35:01
courts intervene and the courts need to intervene or Congress needs to do their job.
00:35:06
Obviously, we already established that. But can I say this just on the topic? Sure. Um, Democrats need to be careful about
00:35:13
this. Um, you know, you're you're in San Francisco and and just a reminder, full
00:35:19
disclosure, and this may offend some people, two years ago, I deployed uh the
00:35:25
California Highway Patrol and the National Guard under state authority in
00:35:31
partnership with city leaders and state leaders and also engaged the federal
00:35:37
government, the FBI, with the Biden administration in terms of federal law
00:35:42
enforcement, state and local law enforcement. forcement actions to address some of the fentanyl and drug
00:35:47
issues in San Francisco. We then did a similar model in Oakland, California,
00:35:53
and we've now rolled that out in many different parts of the state. It is in stark contrast obviously what Trump is
00:36:00
doing to he's doing it to people, not with any of us. But the issue of crime
00:36:05
quality of life is something Democrats need to recognize that we need to
00:36:11
reconcile and we need to be accountable for all of us. And this is not this is
00:36:17
not a permission slip for the way Trump is doing things. Quite the contrary. Um but it is an acknowledgment that he's
00:36:24
hitting on an issue that is an issue across this country in red states. eight
00:36:29
of the top 10 murder states, red states in red states with blue cities, doesn't
00:36:34
matter. It's not a political issue. It's about issues of crime and violence and quality of life that universally all
00:36:42
Americans want us to address. So, how do you say, okay, one of the things a lot of people are telling me is
00:36:48
is uh a lot of people do agree on some of the things and and they always follow it, but not like this, right? like
00:36:56
whatever Trump's doing, the immigration stuff, I'm concerned about it, but not like this. Not this is not how to fix
00:37:01
it. How do you message that? Because a lot of the messaging is, as you just said, crime is heavier in Shreveport
00:37:07
than it is in San Francisco, right? And it's true, but people don't feel that. Telling them it's 24 is down 24%. It's
00:37:14
down this is not, you know, I was talking to someone years ago in San Francisco about the problems here. And
00:37:20
it's not as bad as of course Fox depicted it, which drove me crazy. I was like, it isn't. But you also can't and
00:37:26
you can't meet it by saying murder is down because it's like my car got broken into and even even if it doesn't it's
00:37:33
not the same obviously it is a a way of life right it's a feeling of lack of
00:37:38
safety how do you message that without messaging we don't want these troops here to help us clean it up
00:37:44
well I think it's beyond even messaging you got to do the work I mean that's why you know I hired an additional 1,000 CHP
00:37:50
officers why we've deployed all across the state not just in San Francisco where we launched this two plus years
00:37:56
ago. It's why we changed a lot of the laws as it relates to organized retail theft. Fact had one of the biggest
00:38:01
takedowns of organized retail theft in California history recently. Just in fact recently a couple days ago uh
00:38:08
related to Home Depot uh using some of the new tools and laws that we passed. Look, I think you have to you have to be
00:38:14
accountable to actually doing the work and then communicate that work and not in a responsive way uh but in a
00:38:20
proactive way. And I think we were slow to do that to be candid with you after you know there were a few just a handful
00:38:28
of people promoting defund the police. I certainly wasn't one of them, but Fox weaponized that. The grievance machine
00:38:34
was out there, surround sound 24/7, and we were slow to react to that and they
00:38:39
shapeshifted that. And we're sort of playing catch-up even though a lot of mayors and governors have been very
00:38:45
proactive on policing. And look, we have the second lowest homicides in in, you know, recorded history in California.
00:38:52
We're down 10.4% again from double-digit declines the prior year on crime. to your point, we're not leading with that
00:38:59
because no one no one cares about that if they feel differently. And so I think we have to own that. We have to flood
00:39:05
the zone in terms of our alternative strategies and approach and then we have to communicate them every single day.
00:39:10
And again, that's where he's so damn effective. And there's an asymmetry to that because he's the president of the
00:39:16
damn United States. Is is it working these troop deployments? Do you think it's working for him?
00:39:21
I don't think it's working. I know it's had unbel we every single Tuesday in California we announced we call it and
00:39:27
forgive the vernacular we call it take down Tuesdays in a transparent way we've been updating the public on the arrests
00:39:34
and going after stolen vehicles back to car breakins and issues related to quality of life and keeping people aware
00:39:40
of what's going on but not it's it's hard because these things don't get attention like Trump's true social gets
00:39:47
attention and so that's why I do agree with you back to the pivot and previous point, pivot figuratively and literally
00:39:54
in this case with you that we also have to pivot back to a much more dare I say
00:39:59
muscular not from I know muscular but not through not through a gender frame
00:40:06
muscular approach to communication a little more smashmouth dare I say uh in
00:40:12
terms of our ability to get the message out of what we're doing or talk very clearly someone like Zoran
00:40:18
Mandan he's talking about costs right or something that that they have. How do you look at his communication skills for
00:40:24
example because New York is in the crosshairs here too if he wins especially? Yeah, I mean its
00:40:29
sounds like Trump's been paying a lot of attention to him with his desire to socialize great American companies and
00:40:34
continue to invest like he did with uh Intel and others. But beyond that uh no, I think it's unbelievably effective. His
00:40:41
grassroots, his ability to utilize social media, meet people where they are literally and phys physically, meaning
00:40:47
he's out in the streets, he's talking to real people. Um and he's been able to connect with folks in a very visceral
00:40:52
way. And so there's back to this notion success leaves clues and there's a lot of successful uh campaigning
00:41:00
um ideas that he's advanced. The question is governing and governing is a radically different thing than
00:41:06
campaigning and communicating. Absolutely. But the hostility to him is quite high. Correct. I mean of course because of some of his well
00:41:12
for obvious reasons some of his views and there's a lot of anxiety around those views. Um and they could be on
00:41:19
issues related to domestic policy as it relates to uh you know socializing um
00:41:24
you know grocery stores etc. It could be on national policy. Trump Intel in Trump Intel the comparison is very obvious that you just
00:41:31
made. Yeah. No I correct and we need to make that point over and over and over. I mean I remember was wasn't Jeff Bezos
00:41:37
out there yelling and screaming that Biden doesn't understand uh you know capitalism. I mean this guy is
00:41:43
completely perverted capitalism. Uh Donald Trump. It's crony capitalism. It's, you know, whatever you pay them
00:41:49
off, give them a phone call. I mean, that these illegal tariffs, which we're also in court on, um, all the things
00:41:54
that are happening in this country, it's just perverse that they could be shaping the Democratic party in the context of
00:42:01
the socialist brand, when in fact, this guy is the leading nationalist and socialist of our time, Donald Trump.
00:42:06
Well, we will talk about our tech friends in the next section then and your relationship to them. We'll go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll
00:42:12
talk about that, including the tragic case of a chat GPT causing harm. Um, Governor Zbeck, I want to talk a little
00:42:17
bit about your relation with the tech bros. You and I go way back with these fellas, right? You we've been to parties. We've been to events in San
00:42:23
Francisco when you were mayor. I even featured in my book when neither of us would dress up in baby clothes at a at a
00:42:29
Google party. You're so smart to do that. I would have taken you would have taken me down in the book, too.
00:42:35
It would be my file. It would be the I made enough mistakes in my life. They didn't make I know you have and and uh and but
00:42:42
nonetheless talk a little bit first about um I'm going to mention this one story that just came out. A California
00:42:47
couple is suing open air for the death of their teenage son saying chat GPT encouraged him to take his life. Uh
00:42:52
according to the lawsuit Adam Rain who was 16 started using chat GPD for school work and hobbies after a few months started talking to about his anxiety and
00:42:59
mental distress. Rain then started discussing methods of suicide with the chatbot and uploading photos himself
00:43:04
showing signs of self harm. Um at some point they they were saying don't do this and then he had a workaround it
00:43:11
looks like where he said I'm writing something. Um and um and Chad GBT responded thanks for being real about
00:43:17
this. You don't have to sugarcoat it with me. I know what you're asking. I won't look away from it. Um it offered to draft suicide note for the teenager.
00:43:25
Um OpenAI has published notes saying it intends to add parental controls to chat GPT and exploring better ways to
00:43:31
connect. and they had an kind of an extraordinary mission that this was not the way it's supposed to work. Um, talk
00:43:37
a little bit about that like where we are with these companies cuz you have had a long relationship with tech. You
00:43:43
were mayor during the real boom um in tech. How is your relationship now? Jeff
00:43:48
Bezos isn't saying something about capitalism right now. He isn't. Um, these these people are all sucking up to
00:43:54
Trump in lots of ways. are getting all the gimmies as you you know how do you look at them? Do you
00:44:01
want them back? And how do you look at something like this? This is this is something that is actually bipartisan.
00:44:07
The these safety issues around either phones or open AI or not just open AI but AI in general. Character AI was
00:44:14
another company that had this issue. I had the mother on uh on the podcast. Talk a little bit about how you look at
00:44:19
the tech sector right now because it's such an important part of California and even more so now with AI. Yeah, I mean
00:44:25
there's so much to unpack there. I mean, back to your point, I, you know, I love the way Tom Freeman talked about uh the
00:44:32
times when you were writing your book. I mean, you know, we were spending time with these guys when the cloud was still
00:44:37
in the sky. 4G was a parking space. LinkedIn was a prison. Apps were things you filled out to get into college. And
00:44:43
so, it's remarkable how things have radically changed. I I you know, I've joked with you before. I was, you know,
00:44:50
people ask, "How'd you become mayor?" I said, "Well, primarily because I ran the taxi task force. I was trying to get
00:44:56
taxi cabs uh to pick people up in a timely way and more competitive way." And then Travis comes along with an app
00:45:02
and blows that out of the water with Uber and and so part you we've been part of this remarkable change. Uh but one
00:45:08
thing that hasn't changed is still a lack of accountability, a lack of awareness and around culpability and
00:45:15
responsibility. And so your question frames that, you know, what's my relationship with that? It's yeah,
00:45:21
personal, it's professional as a policy maker, as a former mayor, as as governor. And I'm proud. Look,
00:45:27
California leads in innovation. We also lead in regulation. But but our critics are are not wrong when they say it's
00:45:34
some light touch regulation. I did 19 AI bills last year, more than most other states. We've been on the leading
00:45:40
cutting edge uh of regulation in social media. We've lost more major lawsuits than we've won. Uh we were just opposed
00:45:47
a few weeks ago uh with another major lawsuit as it relates to child privacy issues. We created a privacy council in
00:45:54
the state independent of the state itself, meaning it was voted on by the people. Uh and we're trying right now to
00:46:00
address the issue of frontier models. Um and address uh a response to a bill that
00:46:06
I thought overregulated last year. uh a bill by the the common numeric of 1047
00:46:14
where I got an independent group not politicians but experts FE Lee and
00:46:19
others the godmother of AI academics from Stanford Berkeley and elsewhere uh to come up with a report to guide us on
00:46:26
a legislative path this year which we're working on in real time. So, we're trying to find that balance. We're
00:46:32
trying to be accountable. At the same time, we're trying to maintain our entrepreneurial and innovative ecosystem
00:46:39
and not overregulate and stifle that at the same time. But here they are. They've turned on you
00:46:44
all. They I mean, they put I would agree the B administration was far too sincerious to them in some ways. That
00:46:51
said, they took tail and ran for for the for the Trump campaign. How do you get that back and and without seeming like a
00:46:59
you know put letting them do whatever they want? Well, I mean I you you know all these folks. I know them personally as well
00:47:06
and we have private conversations either directly or indirectly and um obviously
00:47:11
we battle out in court and uh and battle it out with legislation. Uh and we're on
00:47:16
different sides of of many of these issues. But look, bottom line, it's fear and greed. Just is it's both and fear
00:47:23
and greed. And and to your point about Biden, it's interesting. You know, we we did the first AI executive order. I did
00:47:29
one of the first crypto executive orders and then the did the first AI executive order, but we did it handinand glove
00:47:35
with the Biden administration that was thrown out immediately. And then these guys wanted to preempt any statewide
00:47:41
legislation for 10 years. So, you know, this there's no moral equity. If there's any hope for a real regulatory
00:47:47
framework, it's going to be the Democratic Party. Um, trying to to to find that that that that sweet spot
00:47:54
again around innovation, entrepreneurialism, truth, and trust, and not overregulating at the same time
00:47:59
being accountable to the tragic example that you just advanced. I got four kids, so that hits me very differently like it
00:48:06
does for you as a mother um with what's going on with social media. And so
00:48:11
that's that's this is a constant iteration. I have over two dozen bills that we're working on right now to
00:48:18
substantively G answer your question as it relates to our responsibility and relationship to this moment.
00:48:24
What about your relationship with the tech industry? You you know I I would say you were relatively friendly. So was
00:48:29
Klahara. So I mean any California politician has to have relationships within the tech industry. Well, I
00:48:35
thought I thought we were I I was very frustrated to be candid with you very privately and in you know uh around the
00:48:42
unwillingness to engage in you know the whole crypto blockchain space. I I felt they turned their back a little bit and
00:48:48
I thought we paid a huge political price for that. A lot of organizations come together and we so we got work to do to pull that
00:48:55
back number one. And and on the issue, look, I it was a classic pendulum swing
00:49:00
for some that thought they overcorrected during COVID uh and there was concern around censorship and sort of big tech,
00:49:07
big brother in relationship to to to big government and now the light touch uh
00:49:13
that pendulum's back on the other direction. And so I I think trying to find that back and and look it's you're
00:49:19
right it you know these personal relationships have been challenged because you you see all these guys that
00:49:25
you know and worked with uh and you knew them before you know back in the day when right
00:49:30
and there they are all standing up there going like this to the dear leader uh during the inaugural.
00:49:36
I think the the golden statute Tim Cook thing was my like oh good god not easy. I mean, look, I Intel giving
00:49:42
up 10% of its What the hell's going on? Nvidia saying 15% tithing
00:49:48
uh to, you know, so a lot of California companies in that mix. Um, and uh,
00:49:54
breaks my heart and uh, and so again, back to fear and just, you know, I guess
00:50:01
they would say they're fiduciary responsibilities, others would suggest greed. What would be your message to tech say
00:50:07
if you were running for something like president? I look, I I think two things. Um, they matter and we should care
00:50:14
because they're shapeshifting this economy. They're shapeshifting the future. So, we have to care because they
00:50:20
do matter. Uh, and it's foundational with 32 of the top 50 AI companies, by the way. That's an old stat. I think
00:50:26
it's even more uh market share, right? They're all here. They're all here. They're all moving back from Florida and
00:50:31
Texas. Yeah. Eat your heart out. Sorry, Ron. Yeah, you know, and uh Greg, you know, Greg is
00:50:37
grass is not always greener, but anyway, no, there look, it's so we have a unique responsibility to your
00:50:44
point, but we also have a unique ecosystem that defines the best of, you know, we're the ten pole of the US economy for a reason.
00:50:50
Um, and it's it's that ecosystem that's built up for decades. Of course, Trump's trying to completely wreck that as it
00:50:56
relates to institutions of higher learning, research and development, NIH, NSF grants. um obviously the the1
00:51:03
billion dollar extortion payment that he wants from UCLA. We've watched the capitulation of these institutions that
00:51:10
allegedly cultivate independent thought uh selling their souls and Harvard appears to be the next one. Obviously,
00:51:15
Colombia, um I know Brown is lauded for their uh their their $50 million
00:51:21
contribution and tithing uh to the the the Trump whims and but it's uh it's
00:51:27
pretty pretty alarming what this guy's doing to the economy and to the ecosystem and the fact that tech is
00:51:34
still indulging them as they're watching the reason that they exist as an industry and persist in terms of being
00:51:42
the biggest beneficiaries of the research development, the biggest beneficiaries of the NIH, the biggest
00:51:47
beneficiaries of the NSF, uh, is remarkable to me. And so in that relationship, I remind them of this, try
00:51:55
to highlight this, try to maintain a cordial relationship. Uh, but at the
00:52:00
same time, it doesn't mean we're backing away from these lawsuits, and doesn't mean we're backing away from passing
00:52:06
laws. Okay. Um, we're going to move on last part. Uh, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions with Governor
00:52:11
Nuomo. Okay. Governor. Uh, it's time for predictions. First, I'd like to make a specific prediction. Uh, New York mayor,
00:52:18
uh, Eric Adams was mocking Zoran Mandani, uh, last week for his bench pressing prowess. Mani seems to be
00:52:25
struggling in a viral video. Whatever. Um, if you were bench pressing contests against Scott Galloway, who would you
00:52:30
predict wins? I I've seen that guy with No, I'm not. You think I'm naive? Galloway would run
00:52:38
away with that guy. And by the way, we're he may be out there training this last month. You don't even know what he's been up to. You think you know what
00:52:43
he's up to. It's true. Don't get under a bench press. If you're running for president, don't do it. Cuz look how pee tags that
00:52:49
look trying to do one single pull-up. I can do two. Just so you That was sad.
00:52:54
I hate mocking people's physical things, but you kind of have to since he kind of put it up and you kind of have to swing at that one. I
00:53:00
guess you got to swing at that one. But no. Yeah. So I I'm I'm cautious in that respect. Then again, I do like all the
00:53:06
untouched memes of me on the back of Barrett. Yes, I know. I'm sure you do. But let me hear for your prediction. Any predict
00:53:12
any other predictions? No, I mean, you know, I I'm, you know, my predict is in the, you know, the sort of meme market. I, by the way, I spent
00:53:18
an hour and a half with Trump in uh in the Oval Office a few months ago was back when we were working together u if
00:53:25
there's such a thing. And uh he starts telling me, he goes he didn't he didn't even realize, he goes, you know, he
00:53:31
goes, "Hey, you know, Gavin did this uh this uh coin." He goes, "You know, it's not even a coin. It's not even a coin."
00:53:37
I said, "That's amazing, Mr. President." goes he go and then he went on to you know say how much money he just made. He
00:53:42
got a check from uh you know that was just sent over and then he mentioned Melania and um the whole thing uh and
00:53:49
her coin and her memecoin. So anyway, my my prediction is you know I just put this on the prediction market when we
00:53:54
put out the the Trump corruption coin. Um I I think it's going to outperform uh Trump's uh Trump's coins. So that's my
00:54:01
prediction. That's my prediction. All right. Okay. We'll leave it at that. I'm very excited. What's the picture on it? You right.
00:54:06
No, it's not me. I'm not. It's Trump corruption. I'm not put I was going to do a smelt coin,
00:54:11
but no one seemed to fully understand that. Uh, which I thought was a much more insightful and perhaps
00:54:18
more it could be more success. I still may do one. I don't know. After the perfume, I don't know about what, you know, perfect sense, but we'll see.
00:54:25
What would be the name of your perfume? I don't know. I have to I have to we maybe we can crowdsource it. Sort of a little old school 2000 social media
00:54:32
here. Little crowd source. Anyway, um I really appreciate this uh Governor Nome. you. I I really do. I
00:54:38
like our back and forth because I think one of the things that's helpful is when people actually can debate. Um and the
00:54:44
aggression is just what's needed in my opinion. Well, it's gave you a compliment. You're the best of of you're as as uh as
00:54:53
they say in San Francisco where you're back home. Uh as we describe the
00:54:58
Grateful Dead and you describe Jerry Garcia, only a former mayor of California or San Francisco can say
00:55:03
this. He said he described in many ways you. As Bill Graham was describing in
00:55:09
the Grateful Dead, you don't want to be the best of the best. You want to be the only one that does what you do. And that
00:55:15
is you. Oh my god, you're kissing me. I'm just saying. All I want to do is you win the presidency. I'm coming, as I told you
00:55:20
before, I'm coming to the Lincoln bedroom. So get [ __ ] ready. And by the way, he's apparently remodeled the Lincoln bedroom just like
00:55:26
he's remodeling the ballroom. And don't think you, by the way, who spends hundreds of millions of dollars
00:55:32
remodeling a home? not leaving. Thank you. Thank you. Wait because you're running for president,
00:55:38
right? I have to get to Lincoln bedroom. Lincoln, you I mean you're just say yes.
00:55:43
You have some other suitors. I'm well aware. I'm well aware. Okay. In any case, that handsome
00:55:48
Wesmore. Anyway, um we we we want Yes. We want There can be two handsome people. There's many.
00:55:55
We want to we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for
00:56:01
the show or call 85551 Pivot. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to
00:56:07
our YouTube channel which is growing by leaps and bounds. We'll be back next week with a triumphant return of Scott
00:56:12
Galloway. Governor Newsome, you kept it up. You kept up this the the Scott Galloway banner.
00:56:18
He needs to come back shirtless. I want to see I'm I'm I think the guy that
00:56:23
don't say that. I want to see it. He's going to take his shirt off. He doesn't have time. Scott, I'm looking
00:56:28
forward to seeing it. I want to see the pecs. I That's creepy.
00:56:33
It is kind of creepy, but I am blessing to look at men's chests all the time. By the way, understand why
00:56:40
I signed up. He is He is uh He is a unique uh charact uh
00:56:46
you should Well, anyway, I've I've said enough on this topic. I'm already going to say I should marry him.
00:56:51
No, I didn't say that. You guys already talked about your love for each other. We've already described that's been well well discussed on this podcast.
00:56:59
Yes, but you know what I like to step out on him now and then anyway and this has been a great step out. I will read
00:57:04
us a thank you again Governor Nuomo. Today's show was produced by Larren Namon, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and
00:57:09
Kevin Oliver. Ernie Enderdott engineered this episode. Jim Mle edited the video. Nishad Kurwa is Vox Media's executive
00:57:15
producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot
00:57:21
from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod.
00:57:27
We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. I am so looking forward to Gavin perfume.
00:57:35
Take care. [Music]