00:00:00
down lemon is back and he says he's
00:00:02
bigger Bolder Freer he was pretty free
00:00:05
lemon announced this week that he's
00:00:07
starting a new show that will stream
00:00:08
exclusively first on X so it's a podcast
00:00:11
that's going to be first on X I guess
00:00:14
which you know they've been Linda's been
00:00:16
going around I knew a lot about this
00:00:18
because I talked to Don about it quite a
00:00:20
bit I had other suggestions for him I
00:00:22
suggested he' do a deal with Ben Shapiro
00:00:24
or do the Megan Kelly route I didn't
00:00:27
think this was a good idea so that
00:00:29
that's just full closure um and I told
00:00:31
him so and I said you know get the money
00:00:33
up front um I just don't think it's
00:00:37
going to go well for you on this
00:00:38
platform uh but uh but he did he did it
00:00:42
he he's other things he's doing you know
00:00:44
he's but he also called X the biggest
00:00:46
space for free speech in the world um I
00:00:50
think uh it was also telsey gabard and
00:00:52
sports commentator Jim Rome were doing
00:00:54
video Partnerships obviously Tucker
00:00:56
Carlson's been there but then moved to
00:00:59
his own subscription based platform um
00:01:01
scottt what do you think I I said he
00:01:03
shouldn't do it I thought there were
00:01:05
lots of other choices and again if I'm
00:01:07
recommending Ben airo who I who I think
00:01:09
is abhorent in many ways but he's quite
00:01:11
a good media executive that's the kind
00:01:13
of outfit I thought he should have
00:01:16
affiliate you know to to create a great
00:01:18
media property I think you're right so
00:01:21
first off I think I think Don is a is a
00:01:24
real talent and I think he's unafraid he
00:01:28
connects with people he's really
00:01:30
handsome which I think is incredibly
00:01:32
important in media um not as important
00:01:34
in
00:01:35
podcasting but if I were him I would
00:01:38
have just started with a podcast with a
00:01:40
Vox or you know daily you know whatever
00:01:42
it's called daily wire and developed a
00:01:45
following there because X sort of
00:01:46
creates a Halo that okay congratulations
00:01:50
you're now you know on the same platform
00:01:52
as Alex Jones and the guy who runs it is
00:01:56
just sort of Reckless and strange and I
00:02:00
don't this reminds me a little bit of
00:02:01
when Yahoo did a big deal with Katie
00:02:03
kurick it just it's not yes I broke all
00:02:07
those I don't this is not what I would
00:02:09
have done if I was Dawn if I were Dawn I
00:02:11
would have figured out an outlet where I
00:02:13
could still have a 30 or 60 Minute show
00:02:16
because he has a face for
00:02:18
television and uh I do think him in TV
00:02:22
is still uh he would still do well even
00:02:24
if he had to go to a quote unquote
00:02:26
second tier Network and he should have
00:02:28
done a great po
00:02:30
to kind of announce this it's it's it's
00:02:33
not just Don Lemon and what the topic is
00:02:35
going to talk about it's Don Lemon and x
00:02:37
and x in my view is a bad umbrella brand
00:02:41
uh but on the whole he's a big talent
00:02:43
and the thing I do like about this is
00:02:46
that he is doing something the key for
00:02:49
all of these folks and I I I've spoken
00:02:51
to a lot of them recently as they're all
00:02:53
trying to figure out their third or
00:02:55
fourth Act is don't let perfect be the
00:02:57
enemy of good and that is just get get
00:02:59
on to the next thing and iterate and
00:03:03
most of them don't most of them well
00:03:05
they're used to a different world
00:03:07
because they're used to being coddled in
00:03:09
the whole network system right you know
00:03:12
um in Katie's case I actually did break
00:03:15
that St that's how I got to know Katie
00:03:17
from that story um she got a ton of
00:03:19
money up front but then they buried her
00:03:21
inside of Yahoo never was on the front
00:03:23
page she only got
00:03:25
one% for Tumblr who is obviously the
00:03:28
arguably one of the worst cosos in
00:03:29
attack but true I I I think they paid
00:03:33
Don a pile of money I know they did pile
00:03:35
of
00:03:37
money really yes M oh I didn't know well
00:03:41
if that's the case then I I you know I
00:03:44
think Economic Security is important if
00:03:46
he's if
00:03:47
he's he has a lot of money he's still
00:03:49
you know he he got when they fired him I
00:03:51
got I think they had to pay out his
00:03:52
contract so um I don't know he could
00:03:55
have had more money I think I again
00:03:58
can't stand with Megan Kelly doing she's
00:04:01
I get it yes that's what I mean I'm like
00:04:04
uhhuh I see what she's doing and I
00:04:06
talked to her before she did that um and
00:04:08
I recommended the other thing I
00:04:09
recommended to Don is if you want to
00:04:11
stay on television go to a big market
00:04:13
like Los Angeles and be the anchor for
00:04:15
the top TV station and start to do never
00:04:18
gocal National they just couldn't do it
00:04:20
I get it but like you could do some
00:04:22
interesting things that's a great kind
00:04:23
of place cuz there anyway um you know
00:04:27
whatever I just I don't think this was
00:04:29
good idea but you know I guess you got a
00:04:31
pile money X has the money to pay these
00:04:33
kind of things I would think X would be
00:04:36
yeah I said get it up front Don like get
00:04:38
like like Bitcoin or something yeah just
00:04:41
be just be mindful if you get fired you
00:04:42
might not get the severance or
00:04:43
Healthcare you were contractually
00:04:45
obligated to well speaking of which I
00:04:48
was in San
00:04:49
Francisco there's going to be some
00:04:51
lawsuits soon because he hasn't paid any
00:04:53
of them what he owes them from top to
00:04:56
bottom the Twitter employees and he's
00:04:59
using specious uh like ideas of why I
00:05:03
forget what the one was there was a
00:05:05
couple different people told me
00:05:07
different things they're accusing them
00:05:09
of so they don't have but it goes back
00:05:10
to the same thing with this
00:05:13
around well I'm a billionaire so I can
00:05:15
put a chill on all of media it's so
00:05:18
abusive it really is um but the video
00:05:21
strategy that they have now now ex CEO
00:05:24
Linda yakar was at CES this week getting
00:05:27
asked why advertisers should put ads on
00:05:29
x given the hateful content RIS she said
00:05:31
that hate speech is an issue on every
00:05:33
platform can they pivot to video no I I
00:05:36
said you know YouTube Reddit Instagram
00:05:39
uh uh uh would like and YouTube would
00:05:42
like to have a word Twitter like I
00:05:43
they're so behind they've they blew all
00:05:46
their chances early they have comp Tik
00:05:49
Tok I'm sorry I left out Tik Tok their
00:05:51
competitors are superb and good at what
00:05:53
they do they have no CH I don't see how
00:05:56
they have any chance this is another you
00:05:58
know thing thing that they they
00:06:01
aren't going to like a lot of the
00:06:02
Twitter blue stuff is now falling off of
00:06:05
Twitter blue all their promises so I
00:06:07
don't see them being able to Pivot to to
00:06:09
this well sort of back in the day one of
00:06:10
my investors was Tim Armstrong like a
00:06:13
really talented nice man and I don't
00:06:16
know if it was him or has had a strategy
00:06:18
said what would you do if you were Yahoo
00:06:19
this probably a decade ago and I'm be
00:06:20
like I oh yeah that's right I would be
00:06:23
the world's largest TV network and that
00:06:25
your distribution platform is is the
00:06:28
internet and a lot word is out that
00:06:32
video is big and to your point yeah
00:06:36
YouTube does a really good job Tik Tok
00:06:39
does a really good job so I'm not saying
00:06:42
yeah it might be the right strategy but
00:06:44
it feels a little bit late it feels like
00:06:46
they don't have the capital the
00:06:48
engineering talent I would say eight
00:06:50
years and they were there already eight
00:06:52
years I yeah it it makes sense but the
00:06:56
notion that uh you know I just don't if
00:07:00
I
00:07:01
were we'll see I look Twitter X has to
00:07:04
do something right they have to innovate
00:07:06
they have to do something to have to
00:07:07
experiment work it does feel late this
00:07:10
is this is a this is a media strategy by
00:07:13
someone who doesn't know media which
00:07:14
would be musk and Lind yurino who came
00:07:17
from NBC so this is her move and she was
00:07:20
not in programming or editorial or any
00:07:23
she knows how to you know putting names
00:07:25
like Chelsea gabard and Don Lemon out
00:07:28
she thinks is going to this is she goes
00:07:30
for the deal the Splashy deal at CES
00:07:33
that's not how it works anymore it's
00:07:34
people you don't know it's interesting
00:07:37
like Mr Beast or it's h it's just not
00:07:41
this people are native I will say I saw
00:07:44
I watched Tulsi
00:07:45
on on Fox she has and I think she's I
00:07:49
think she's talented I was shocked at
00:07:51
how good she was on there I think she's
00:07:53
good the yeah if I I would have done a
00:07:57
deal and maybe they just got bought you
00:08:00
know they just threw so much money at
00:08:01
that which and if that's the case I
00:08:04
think they did D lemon I take it back
00:08:05
good for
00:08:07
you no it's not good it's not good for
00:08:09
him he could have made just Megan Kelly
00:08:11
is making bank and she controls her
00:08:13
Destiny I'm sorry again I can't you know
00:08:16
you don't need it it's it's I was
00:08:18
talking to someone about this and they
00:08:19
about my own career and they're like why
00:08:22
don't you come with us full time I said
00:08:23
you can't afford me you don't understand
00:08:26
but you know what I mean like I can do
00:08:28
better by myself like you don't things
00:08:30
have changed and I'm not even very big I
00:08:32
mean you you stay at the nicest hotels
00:08:34
in manhatt oh wait never mind never
00:08:38
mind you go through my closets and
00:08:40
comment on my food I love do you know
00:08:42
what I actually I actually love it's
00:08:44
nice isn't it it actually and I'm I'm
00:08:46
kidding it makes me happy to know you're
00:08:48
there I like it I you know I I love
00:08:51
people's homes I stayed with Brooke
00:08:53
hammerling in Los Angeles she has a
00:08:54
beautiful home I don't like hotels I'm
00:08:56
not a hotel like I love hotels but I
00:08:58
love
00:09:00
people where are my eggs no I don't like
00:09:02
it I don't like it I like your apartment
00:09:04
quite a bit I and I don't know why I
00:09:06
have an I have a an affection for it I
00:09:08
really do and it's not because it's it's
00:09:10
not that fancy it's just really lovely
00:09:12
it's it's a lovely F apartment anyway
00:09:15
it's got a nice Vibe it's got a good
00:09:16
vibe it's full of love SE Alice it's
00:09:18
full of love last thing is this world of
00:09:20
online video changing then where do you
00:09:22
think it's going I I did interview Mark
00:09:24
Thompson in an offsite for Warner
00:09:26
Brothers I don't know if it was off the
00:09:27
Record or not I was never told it was
00:09:29
but it was really interesting
00:09:30
conversation um but he said uh among
00:09:33
other things the conventional TV can no
00:09:35
longer Define us although he wasn't
00:09:37
abandoning TV that wasn't what he meant
00:09:40
what does that mean um that's when he
00:09:42
started well I think he's like I think I
00:09:45
was trying to get more out of him about
00:09:47
it actually because it was you know I
00:09:49
think he has to they're trying to figure
00:09:51
out where how to how to move their where
00:09:55
and how to move their stuff and control
00:09:57
it a little like you know he said it
00:09:59
wasn't one thing I'm going to just say
00:10:01
what he said he he said it wasn't a a
00:10:03
shift and lift from or lift and shift
00:10:05
from what he did at the New York Times
00:10:07
which was move it over to digital while
00:10:10
keeping the print thing going because he
00:10:13
thought video like TV distribution
00:10:16
linear would be around for several
00:10:18
decades and I would agree with him um
00:10:21
and it's already there so why not take
00:10:22
advantage of it um but that you have to
00:10:25
sort of move everything uh think of it
00:10:28
as as a dis digal product over over time
00:10:31
and she he said we have to own it and
00:10:33
not be subject to other people's
00:10:35
platforms it was interesting it was he's
00:10:36
a what is the what strategy if you were
00:10:40
to Define maybe you didn't get this
00:10:41
information how Mark Thompson is going
00:10:45
what is the strategy or the shift in
00:10:47
programming or distribution that we'll
00:10:49
see under Mark Thompson that we weren't
00:10:50
going to see under Chris lck a
00:10:51
subscription subscription a subscription
00:10:54
survey I that's my she didn't say it but
00:10:57
there's no other way like what they did
00:10:59
the New York Times some of it's free
00:11:01
what okay yes exactly I that's what I
00:11:04
said I said the problem with CNN plus
00:11:06
was directionally was correct but there
00:11:07
was no CNN it was like hamburger Plus
00:11:09
without hamburger right like I don't get
00:11:12
it why don't you but I think some of the
00:11:14
stuff I think he's right some news does
00:11:15
lend itself to television fast news fast
00:11:18
moving um but I think the dependence
00:11:22
on the platforms like Twitter or YouTube
00:11:26
or whatever there's not the monetization
00:11:28
is not there and I think the times was
00:11:30
doing that too just the way everybody
00:11:32
gave all their content to Netflix and
00:11:35
regretted it I think in a lot of ways um
00:11:39
and didn't own it themselves and take
00:11:41
the cost of doing it I think that's his
00:11:43
inclination I think he's correct that it
00:11:45
has to be a product that people want to
00:11:47
buy um a news product that people want
00:11:50
to buy from CNN and some of it is free
00:11:52
some of it's not um I mean he has to
00:11:55
he's you know they could look at Netflix
00:11:57
is now very successful sucessfully doing
00:11:59
advertising a Amazon is about to make
00:12:01
its ad tier for default for its millions
00:12:03
of Prime video subscribers so you know
00:12:06
there's a lot of add stuff in a
00:12:08
different and interesting way so they
00:12:10
have they have some they have some
00:12:11
interesting opportunities and he's very
00:12:13
canny so I don't know what would you do
00:12:16
if you were running
00:12:17
CNN great brand globally great brand
00:12:20
glob I would try and elegantly
00:12:23
integrated
00:12:24
into um kind of the the max offering and
00:12:29
always have a CNN bug where you can
00:12:30
click it and they did you know they had
00:12:32
6 10 20 minute Loops kind of becomes the
00:12:35
ingredient news brand for the
00:12:37
subscription service Max I don't think
00:12:39
it's a standalone Subscription Service I
00:12:41
think it's it's the ingredient it's the
00:12:43
neutr suite of Max around news and
00:12:46
because when you think about it yeah the
00:12:48
biggest players whether it's whether
00:12:50
it's Disney Plus or Netflix what they
00:12:52
lack is
00:12:53
news so it is yeah it's the asame or I
00:12:57
don't know what you would want to call
00:12:57
it it's the Intel inside of Max is what
00:13:00
I would I would try and build I'll tell
00:13:02
you the most interesting thing he said
00:13:04
offand which which was this idea of you
00:13:07
wake up and it you're like I want to
00:13:09
know more about that I want it like an
00:13:11
AI gener you know that that their news
00:13:14
done by people is then applied you know
00:13:17
digitally and with AI with gener of AI
00:13:19
so that you start to get they're they're
00:13:21
exploring deals with open AI that was
00:13:23
just reported yesterday and he he didn't
00:13:25
say as much but obviously everyone's
00:13:27
talking to them but um that you have
00:13:31
some kind of relationship with your news
00:13:34
it's not um because Google laid off all
00:13:37
the assist a bunch of assistant people
00:13:39
so did um uh you know uh C hundreds of
00:13:44
jobs to voice activity assistance
00:13:46
software this is all going to be uh AI
00:13:49
generated and he had some ideas around
00:13:51
that and I thought that was smart so
00:13:54
he's working it out but it's definitely
00:13:56
a transition uh David zazo was there he
00:13:59
was wearing he was wearing his David sof
00:14:01
outfit and everything but it was it was
00:14:03
interesting it was he's I think this is
00:14:04
going to be a great year for
00:14:06
anyway yeah I do too he's very Mark is
00:14:10
very thoughtful I really enjoy talking
00:14:12
to him and I can see he's working it out
00:14:15
I think he's woring it's not it's not
00:14:16
going to be unlike what happened at the
00:14:17
New York Times using this amazing brand
00:14:20
and there huge amounts of reporters to
00:14:22
really uh bring to bear there's
00:14:25
monetization there and as opposed to
00:14:27
like Linda doing these oneoff dealss and
00:14:31
it's just not an editorial product very
00:14:32
similar to what happened at
00:14:37
Yahoo
