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The 2009 Wharton India
Economic Forum, titled "India, the
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Road Ahead," took place in
Philadelphia and brought
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together CEOs of leading Indian
companies, investors, heads of
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nonprofit organizations, sports
celebrities, and Bollywood stars
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to discuss where India is headed
in an age of economic
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uncertainty. Indian Knowledge at
Wharton brings you one-on-one
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conversations with these
leaders.
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Steve Guglielmi: Thank you very much
for joining us today.
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A lot of women— a lot
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of our women readers would be
very interested to know how you've
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charted your career. And you
began, I think, in 1984, as a
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management trainee. You were
named to the— I think 25th on
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Fortune's list of the most
powerful women in business in
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2008. You're going— you've been
named the new CEO of ICICI,
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and I believe that transition is
happening in— is it April or May?
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First of May.
- First of May.
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So you know, going
from a management trainee
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in 1984 in India to the head of
one of the largest banks in
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India, what— what challenges did
you face as you— as you've progressed
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through your career?
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Chanda Kochhar: Well, I think it's been a very
exciting and a challenging
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journey, no doubt about it. I
think, when you talk of a career
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span of 25 years, the way I look
back I feel that, you know, as—
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as I spent these 25 years, the
organization also really
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transformed and grew
substantially. We were a very
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small development financial
institution 25 years ago. From
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there we are, today, the second
largest bank in the country and
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and a very large financial
services group, which meant that
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there were a lot of
opportunities for people based
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on merit. And as I spent these
25 years, we as an organization
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went into commercial banking,
into retail banking, into
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infrastructure financing, and,
you know, into international
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banking. And somehow, you know,
I was able to really be a part
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of most of the new initiatives
that— that were set up by the
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organization. So it's partly the
fact that, you know, there—
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there was growth in the
organization that gave me the
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opportunity to prove myself. The
other thing was that, of course,
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there is no substitute to hard
work. So— so as opportunities
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came along, of course, you had
to work hard, prove yourself,
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and learn from those
opportunities and evolve as an—
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as a person.
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As a woman, especially starting
your career, did you feel you had
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to work harder to prove
yourself?
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I think in a way a woman has to
work harder. I don't know
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whether to prove herself or not.
But one has to recognize the
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fact that a woman is literally
living 48 hours out of 24 hours.
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Because, you know, you're just
not managing your career, you
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are definitely managing your
family as well. So, in that
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sense, I think in any case you
will end up working much harder.
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But once you kind of decide to
do that, and once you make up
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your mind, and once you believe
that you can do it, I think you
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then land up— land up doing it.
And what's important is that as
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long as, you know, the— the
opportunities come along your
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way on the basis of merit, and
without any biases of gender,
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then I think, you know, you can
work along and— and make the best
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out of those opportunities.
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Do you perceive that there are
still some hurdles for women in
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business who would like to
start out in business in India?
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And if so, what are they?
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I would think that in the past
25 years, of course, things have
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changed tremendously. When I
started working, I don't think
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one could even imagine— imagine,
at that point in time, that women
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would lead very many large
organizations. But I think
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today, even socially, there's a
lot more acceptance that women
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actually would have their
careers. It starts from the
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parents, who themselves want
their daughters to have their
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own careers. I think, then again,
when— when people get married,
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you know, their husbands or
their in-laws, again, accept this
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very nicely that— that the woman
in the house will have a career.
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So I think socially there is
much more acceptance. And again,
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you know, the biases in the
minds of people in terms of
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there are only certain things
that men can do and there are
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certain things that women can
do, I think, in a way, are
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becoming less. Would I say that
it's become absolutely an even
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world in every organization? It
may not have as yet. But I think
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things are changing
substantially.
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And does ICICI fund women
entrepreneurs? Or if they do, to what
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extent do they fund them?
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See, ICICI has always been a gender-
neutral organization. So why
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even talk of funding women or
not? Even, you know, the fact that
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there are so many women in the
ICICI group and doing well. - I
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guess the appropriate way to
phrase the question is to what
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extent do you— do you have statistics
on the numbers? - Yeah.
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So, the status— because we don't
do anything special for women,
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but we are, in a way, special,
because we do not keep any
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gender biases in our mind. So,
you know, when it's an
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entrepreneur, we go by the merit
of the project. When it's an
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employee, we just go by the
merit of the employee. We
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actually are blind-sighted
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to whether the person
is a man or a woman.
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- Do you feel it's a factor in
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some other organizations,
that there is sort
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of a gender bias when
it comes to funding?
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I don't. I would not want to
believe so. I would not want to
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believe so. But, you know, if
you look at our own
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organization, you know, we are a
36,000-strong employee base
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and of that 33% of women. So we
have a large women employee
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base who are doing well in the
organization.
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You do fund a number of women
ventures, because you are, as
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you say, gender blind. - That's
right.
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Are there any particular
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success stories that
you would note?
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Yes. If you have heard of, you
know, Kiran Mazumdar, the
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biotech company in India, that—
that was a company that started
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with our, you know, private
equity venture fund kind of—
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you know, kind of association
many, many years ago, when—
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when, you know, it was just in
the kind of a seed capital
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stage. So there are, you know,
many of these celebrated cases
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in that sense, which have become
much bigger. On the other hand,
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there are many which may not
have been known as yet. But, you
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know, many women entrepreneurs
are doing very well in the
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German jewelry business, many of
them are doing very well in the
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tourism business. So we have a
lot of the— you know, the
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initiatives that women are
running, which have been funded
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by us.
- And what advice
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would you give to an
entrepreneur who was approaching
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the bank for funding?
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I think— I mean, always I would,
but especially in the current
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times, I would say that the
first important thing is to
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start with a structure which is
very robust. By which I mean
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that it should have a very good
and a sensible mix of debt and
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equity, because it's always very
tempting to start with a heavily
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debt-oriented structure, because
you have to put very less. But I
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think when you're starting a
venture, you have to plan for—
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you know, certain uncertainties.
And if you stretch yourself
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right from the beginning with a
heavily debt-oriented structure,
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then you're not able to kind of
manage the course if things
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kind of don't move in the same
way as you had planned. But if
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you start with a little
conservative debt equity
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structure it gives you the ability
to kind of establish your base.
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And once you do that, then you
can take on— you know, more kind
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of data-oriented structures on
top of that.
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And what general advice would you
give to women who want to start
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in a career like yours? What
should they keep in mind?
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The most important thing that
they have to keep in mind is, get—
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take out any inhibition in their
own mind. You know, most of the
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time, I think it's more an
inhibition in the minds of women
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to say, "Oh, but I am a woman. I
have to run my family. So I will
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not be able to, you know, make a
good job out of my career." Or that
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"If I follow a career, I'll
have to ruin my family life."
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Well, I think that's— that's not—
that's only an inhibition to
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start with. As I said, you know,
once you believe that you're
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equally strong and you can do
both, and you make up your mind
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to do both— well, it's a little
hard work. It's not a— it's not
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a cakewalk. But if you make up
your mind, I think you can do
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it. So the first important thing
is to start with self
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confidence. And that is what
gives you the basis to then keep
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moving forward.
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And what's the biggest challenge,
from your perspective, of
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running— doing both?
- Well,
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the challenge is that, as I said,
it means you are working much
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harder. It means you have to
organize your time much better.
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It means you have to prioritize
your time much better. It means
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you have to sometimes give up
some things. If you are in the
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most important meeting in your
office, you will have to give up
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a parents teachers meeting
that's taking place somewhere
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else, and somewhere— sometimes
the other way around. So I think
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you have to set clear priorities
for yourself. And the priorities
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change every day, because
something is more important and—
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at a certain point in time. So I
think it means all that, handling
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all that. But— and also, I always
believe that, you know, in fact,
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women— if they want to grow on
the basis of merit, they should
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never expect anything special. I
think once you believe that you
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want to rise up in the
organization, then you have to
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be willing to give as many hours
of work as the job demands, as
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much of travel as the job
demands. Because then, you cannot
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say "Oh, but I'm a woman, I'll do
only this." So I think you have
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to actually give as much as the
job demands and as much as it
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takes to do— you know, to look
after your family. But once you—
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as I said, you have to make up
your mind
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and then try and do that.
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Right. And well, clearly,
you work
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many hours a day. What do you do
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for fun when you find the time
to enjoy yourself?
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Well, whenever I find the time,
my biggest one is to spend time
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with my family. I don't think I
really actually find fun if I
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have to put myself away and say
"I want time for myself." I think
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there is so very little time
that I get with my kids that I
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really enjoy each and every
moment of what I get with them.
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Right. Well, thanks very much
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for talking with us today.
- Thank you.
