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I'm Kevin wbach professor of legal
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studies and business ethics and the
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organizer of a conference here called
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for the win on gamification and I'm
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talking to to Tom khil who's the deputy
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director for policy at the office of
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Science and Technology policy at the
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White House so Tom thanks very much for
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being here a pleasure so tell us a
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little bit first about uh what ostp is
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because uh our audience might not
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entirely be familiar with that group in
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the White House and a little bit about
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what you do there sure uh so the office
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of Science and Technology policy is part
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of the White House it's headed by John
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hren who's the president's science
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adviser and it has two basic missions
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one is to worry about science and
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technology for policy that is when the
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president is struggling with an issue
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about Fukushima and Japan how do we make
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sure that the president gets the best
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scientific and Technical advice and the
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second is policy for Science and
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Technology that is how does public
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policy on things like research uh
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education Innovation affect long-term
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economic growth and job creation and the
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ability to harness science technology
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and Innovation to address major societal
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challenges so can you give some examples
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of uh how things like R&D and the these
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more long-term scientific Endeavors
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actually connect up with the immediate
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concerns about jobs well uh a lot of
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times there is a long lag between when
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we start making an investment in
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research and development and when it
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starts to show up in in the GDP so a
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classic example is the government
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started invested in the arpanet uh and
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it took a long back in 1969 and it took
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a long time be before that started to be
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a driver of economic growth and job
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creation and productivity so one of
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osp's mandates is to look out for the
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long term to try to figure out what
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investments that we need to be making
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today that are going to lead to economic
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growth and job creation in the long term
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but there are things that we can do that
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will have a more immediate impact so for
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example if we're successful in in in
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working with the Congress to pass
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legislation that will make more Spectrum
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available for new wireless Services uh
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that will certainly help Drive economic
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growth and job creation um so this
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Administration the Obama Administration
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came in uh with a real commitment to
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renewing the emphasis on on science and
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technology and and I I had the the
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fortune of being being part of the the
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team in setting up the administration
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can you talk a little bit about some of
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the new initiatives that that this
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Administration has brought in uh and and
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some of the progress that's been made
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sure uh so one area of of real Focus has
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been improving Math and Science
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Education uh and there's been a real
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focus on on trying to move the United
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States from the middle to the top of the
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pack in terms of our performance and
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what's called stem education science
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technology engineering and math so
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that's been a major area of focus a
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second has been to try to increase our
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investments in in research and
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development particularly in the physical
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sciences and Engineering so th those are
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two examples where we've been able to
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make some
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progress and from your sense how do we
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how do we match up with the rest of the
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world and and what do we need to do to
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to U achieve better in those kinds of
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comparisons well uh so I think the
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United States is still an innovation
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superpower we have a lot going for us we
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have 17 of the top 20 research
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universities we have an entrepreneurial
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culture uh we have Capital markets that
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are willing to invest in high growth
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entrepreneurs but we certainly can't
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afford to take our lead uh for granted
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and we certainly have to continue to
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make progress by investing in things
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like research education and and a
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Century infrastructure what what role
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can the government play in in
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entrepreneurship and and startup
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activity well there's a number of things
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that we're doing so we launched
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something called uh the startup America
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initiative and it has two components one
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is things that the government is doing
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to create the right environment for
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private sector entrepreneurship and the
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second is a private sector Le activity
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that that is being spearheaded by Steve
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case who's the uh former co-founder of
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AOL so the government is doing things
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things like uh making it easier for
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foreign born entrepreneurs uh to
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immigrate to the United States we're
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trying to improve access to capital for
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small and mediumsized Enterprises and
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we're trying to improve the
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commercialization of federally funded
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research so that ideas move from the lab
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to the
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marketplace what are there things that
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that businesses or startups can do to to
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get involved or to to help contribute to
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some of these programs yes so if you go
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to the uh startup America partnership
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website you'll see a large number of
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companies uh are already getting
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involved whether it's AMX uh or Intel or
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Google or Microsoft so uh certainly
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there are a number of large companies uh
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that are getting involved in trying to
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encourage entrepreneurship and you also
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have a number of regions that are
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beginning to organize around this issue
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so not only do you have this National
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activity called the startup America
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partnership you also have States
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beginning to organize around this so you
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have startup Illinois and startup
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Tennessee and a number of other cities
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and states are not far behind so I I
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mentioned that that you're here uh at
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Wharton for a conference on gamification
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and so can you talk a little bit about
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some of the things that are that are
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going on in the federal government in
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terms of using prizes and other kinds of
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game mechanics on public policy
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challenges yeah well so uh the president
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in his National Innovation strategy
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asked agencies to increase their use of
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prizes and challenges as a tool for
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stimulating Innovation and the reason
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that we're doing that is that uh prizes
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and challenges have a number of
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advantages relative traditional grants
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and contracts it allows the government
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to pay only if someone is successful uh
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it allows the government to establish a
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goal without picking in advance the the
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right approach or the best team uh that
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is in the best position to achieve that
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goal uh and it allows the government to
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tap into a lot of uh non-traditional
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performers so NASA has done this and
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they've reported that they're getting a
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5 to 10x return on the investment that
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they're making in prizes when they
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compare that to more uh traditional
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funding mechanisms can you can you give
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some specific examples of the the prizes
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that have been done sure so uh one was
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the uh Dara Grand Challenge uh which is
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really succeeded in advancing the
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state-of-the-art in robotic cars uh that
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was really successful uh NASA has been
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doing a lot of this uh to uh improve the
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state-of-the-art of space technology so
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uh so right now now a lot of it has been
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the technical agencies another example
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is uh the department of energy had
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something called the L prize to advance
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the State ofthe art and efficient
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lighting technology so as I said a lot
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of it so far has been limited to the
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Science and Technology agencies but
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we're also trying to encourage those
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agencies that have more of a social
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mission to start experimenting with
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prizes as well do do you have any sense
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of where this could go and prizes and
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and Beyond what's what's the potential
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for for the government to employ some of
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these techniques well I think there's a
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whole Suite uh of Technologies uh and
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approaches that are going to allow us to
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stimulate Innovation one that I'm really
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excited about is called an advanced
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Market commitment which you can think of
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as a purchase order for a product that
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doesn't exist yet and this has been
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tried out in the area of uh vaccines for
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diseases of the poor uh so left to their
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own uh devices pharmaceutical companies
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May
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underinvested of the poor because they
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don't have money so they'd rather work
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on male pattern boldness or or or
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something like that uh and so some
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economists came up with the idea of an
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advanced Market commitment and five
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countries plus the Gates Foundation got
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behind this idea and said to the Pharma
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industry if you develop a vaccine which
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is safe and effective we promise that we
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will purchase it uh and this
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intervention is going to save the lives
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of 7 million kids in developing
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countries over the next 20 years so uh
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even the way we change is changing and I
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think experimentation
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uh with some of these new tools for
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encouraging and promoting Innovation is
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really important so I mean on that point
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about experimentation you're you're
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based in the white house which I think
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most people don't realize is actually a
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very tiny operation relative to the the
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scope of the federal government so so
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how do you push out these kinds of
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changes across a a a very large
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bureaucracy well uh first of all we try
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to understand why agencies aren't using
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some of these things so it turned out
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that there was a fair amount of legal
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uncertainty about whether uh those
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agencies that haven't been given
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specific authority to use prizes could
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actually do it so someone might say well
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I'd like to do a prize and they' talk to
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their uh general counsel and the general
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counsel would say well we're not sure
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that you have the authority to do this
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so we worked uh with the Congress to
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pass legislation that now gives every
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agency the authority to support prizes
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and challenges of up to $50 million so
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that's one of the things we're trying to
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do is to reduce the transaction costs uh
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to remove the legal and Regulatory
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barriers and then to build a community
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of practice within the federal
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government of those uh people within the
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agencies that are interested in
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experimenting this and then highlighting
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uh some of the prizes and challenges
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that are successful so if we can
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demonstrate that many agencies are
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seeing a 5 to 10x return on their
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investment on prizes uh uh relative to
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Grants and contracts we think that's
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going to encourage more agencies to to
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start EXP experimenting with us okay so
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one one more before we wrap up obviously
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we're in a very challenging economic
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time and and and a challenging political
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time so how how does all that play into
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the things that you're working on um is
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is it more important or or less
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important and are there any
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opportunities in terms of some of these
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Innovative techniques and and the the
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broad area that you're in to help us get
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out of this this kind of mess that we're
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in well absolutely I mean if I think if
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you look uh at the
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1990s uh the the last time I was in
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government uh we had uh you know 4%
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Unemployment uh not only had we
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eliminated the debt we were on track to
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pay down the deficit uh we had double-
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digigit uh increases in private sector
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investment in in capital um and and
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Rising wages and the creation of new
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Industries was an important part of the
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story so it was really in large part uh
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about this boom in information and
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communic A's Technologies which not only
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drove economic growth and job creation
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but also increased productivity so that
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really reminds us that if the United
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States wants to maintain a a long-term
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uh e healthy economy that we need to
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make investments in in areas like
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research and development terrific Tom
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thanks very much for being us sure
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thanks for being here
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