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[Music]
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so I guess I'd like to start uh by
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asking you a little bit about what
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brought you into this industry because I
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know you did not start off here you were
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in the advertising space and you made a
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a career transition into film making can
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you comment a little bit on uh what
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drove of the transition from advertising
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to film
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making uh well it was like flowing with
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the water and nothing was pred
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decided so um I can't claim that it was
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movies for me all the way so I just went
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along from one profession to another and
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till you find your calling and I guess
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uh Cinema was
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it and having discovered Cinema and
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still discovering it it kind of gave me
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a lot of happiness and
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satisfaction in a way I could also
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express myself and being able to express
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through the medium much more which I
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couldn't have done anywhere else yeah
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it's interesting because I I would have
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thought you could have done these in
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advertising as well express yourself
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through the medium you did not feel that
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way uh I I had a lot of fun in
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advertising uh in fact uh
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I started with producing commercial then
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I started directing them yeah and um a
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lot happened when MTV moved into India
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they gave me the task of uh indianizing
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MTV so that was great
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fun and um then doing the first
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commercials with uh uh amitab bachan and
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at that point of time the they were only
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models and not Cinema personalities and
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celebrities were not common yeah so all
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those things happened at the same time
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there was a huge
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uh uh technological kind of a
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breakthrough in advertising so one was
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part of it and traveling with your first
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commercials overseas and post post-
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producing and editing them mhm a lot of
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international commercials came away
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because India was also kind of blooming
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economically yeah so the automobile
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Industries and all all the Japanese cars
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are coming into India so start shooting
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for
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them so yes I did have a lot of fun but
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what we need to understand is in
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advertising you're always
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uh working uh under a given brief your
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primary job uh is to sell yeah and uh
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there is very limited expression there
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fair enough technically yes you can
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express
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yourself yeah fair enough that makes
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sense now in terms of your uh movie
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making let's talk a little bit about
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your films uh your second film rang
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basanti was a phenomenal success if I'm
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not mistaken among the top three highest
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grossing Hindi films ever can you
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comment a little bit on what in your
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mind were some of the factors that led
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it to it l that led to its uh phenomenal
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success uh actually uh when I was was
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conceiving the film and and and making
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it and even during the release uh one
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could have never thought that this film
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is going to uh shape up the way it has
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and it became more than a movie it just
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went on to kind of occupy the
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subconscious of the nation
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yeah uh essentially now when I look
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back there are millions of reasons for
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the success of the film and
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uh so for the failure of any film you
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can on retrospect you can always
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analyze but once you're going with it
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then you're going with it and you're
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going with your instincts your um the
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small voice inside you which is the
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loudest and uh that kind of drove me um
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into writing the script and then taking
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it Forward producing and directing the
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film I guess
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um the things you can do justice to and
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the subjects you can do justice to are
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when you're really dying to say
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something you're dying to express
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yourself and then you're drawing out of
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your own real
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life so you're
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not uh the the ediom is there to borrow
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but the soul
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somewhere kind of originates from your
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childhood your youth your school School
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your college your profession and what
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you've seen in life and what you em
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emited from life and learned from life
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and then you give it back okay so you
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mentioned there were a million reasons
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why it was successful there there could
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have been a million reasons why it could
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have failed so on that note I want to
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step back and look at the industry and
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The Business of Cinema it's a hit driven
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business uh most of the profits in the
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industry are concentrated among a few
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movies that are released every year and
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uh certainly the success of movies are
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is highly unpredictable uh in advance
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and a lot of us Folks at Wharton study
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these kinds of uh hit driven businesses
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be it movies music uh startups Venture
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Capital product releases and so on we're
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always trying to understand what is it
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that contributes to the success of these
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uh items in these hit driven businesses
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and can you predict that in advance in
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your mind are there best practices to
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film making there are certain things
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that you think are are crucial to making
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something successful or is it always
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that you go into a movie and you make
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the movie and it's it's a hit or a miss
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when you when you release the movie and
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you have no clue what's going to
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happen no there are various factors and
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um by which um you can always take the
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path of a successful film okay uh
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obviously you really can't predict that
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what will be the the Quantum of success
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right essenti we all work within a glass
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ceiling so um to break through above
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that is where the challenge is and to
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raise the bar is where the challenge
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lies and to kind of be a game changer in
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your own game is where uh the fun
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is um I would say one has to start with
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the scripting process okay it's the
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writing the content okay which uh which
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kind of defines
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uh uh
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you can have a very good you can have a
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good script and and then you can make a
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not such a good movie but yet it will be
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successful but to start with if you
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don't have a good screenplay and you
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don't have a good story to tell right
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you can get the best artists the best
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cast the best technicians behind the
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camera but it will not reach out to the
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audience so I I think the if if there
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was one ingredient it would be the
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content and the writing it's interesting
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that you bring up the script and the
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story as the key ingredient uh and I
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completely agree with you but one of the
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interesting contradictions I noticed is
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that when we look at uh the Hollywood uh
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industry if you look at the budget
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breakdown close to 10 sometimes 12 15%
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of the budget is spent on development
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the story script and so on when I look
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at the Indian film industry the
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development portion of the budget is
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sometimes as low as 1% 1 and a half% do
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you think that the industry is really
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[Music]
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underinvestigated it can be laterally
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correlated
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to the research and development in any
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other industry so while you're
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researching many models of cars it's
00:08:40
just that one car which comes in front
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and all that money which you spent and
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invested into development need not
00:08:48
necessarily uh convert itself into the
00:08:51
finished product so yes uh um you're so
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right when you say that we should invest
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more and more into developing
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content and out of that content then
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you'll find something which you can take
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forward and put it on the assembly line
00:09:06
right so I'm seeing some parallels with
00:09:08
other Industries where there are firms
00:09:10
focused very heavily on research and
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development they often come out with
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products and they make most of their
00:09:16
money through licensing uh Qualcomm in
00:09:18
the US is a technology company that fits
00:09:20
that bill I'm curious to get your
00:09:22
perspective on whether there is an
00:09:25
opportunity for a purely development
00:09:28
focused firm in India that whose job is
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to produce stories and scripts and
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license it or do you feel that that's
00:09:34
not really the way the industry works
00:09:36
and there isn't such an opportunity uh I
00:09:39
yes and no um since no one has tried it
00:09:42
we don't know the answer once you try
00:09:44
and and then you have your own learning
00:09:46
curve okay but uh I would say it's more
00:09:49
like a
00:09:50
360 uh more than just having a
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specialized kind of a script development
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uh because there's a there's a lot of
00:09:59
Normal and abnormal wastage there there
00:10:01
a lot of ideas which uh kind of you uh
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you reach the roadblock yeah after
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halfway or almost about completion and
00:10:11
even when you completed you feel that no
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this is was a great idea but it hasn't
00:10:16
translated itself onto a screenplay yeah
00:10:20
so uh it's it's I I've always felt it
00:10:23
better that if a part of your overall
00:10:27
budget and and and and your overall
00:10:30
finances can be put towards content
00:10:32
development yeah so if you're a studio
00:10:35
house or you're a production house um
00:10:38
then you can invest in that part and out
00:10:41
of there then take uh take content and
00:10:44
take finish uh screen plays and put them
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forward rather than starting a
00:10:48
specialized kind of a house there okay
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interesting now I guess Switching gears
00:10:55
a little bit I want to talk a little bit
00:10:56
about all the recent technological
00:10:58
innovation ation s in uh film making
00:11:01
starting with digital production the it
00:11:04
has brought down the cost of film making
00:11:05
considerably digital distribution is
00:11:08
also something that uh is a little newer
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in India but uh there's new companies
00:11:13
like UFO Cinemas and others coming in
00:11:15
that are offering digital distribution
00:11:17
which enables a movie to be
00:11:19
simultaneously released to multiple
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markets u in your opinion what kind of
00:11:25
impact would these have on film making
00:11:27
and the industry in general and my
00:11:31
understanding is the adoption of these
00:11:33
Technologies be it in production or
00:11:35
distribution is is still fairly limited
00:11:38
is that accurate or do you uh and if so
00:11:41
why is it so limited uh we've been
00:11:43
hearing digital um for the last 15 years
00:11:46
it's it's not uh that it's just sprung
00:11:49
up okay but but do you produce in analog
00:11:53
film res or do you do digital production
00:11:55
for most of your films these days um
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most of the films are made analog and
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then convert it
00:12:01
into at the time of editing you would
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convert it it goes into digital and the
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final product is a digital kind of a
00:12:09
negative which further is burnt into an
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analog or a digital kind of a y medium
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to project the film right so the process
00:12:18
you follow you're saying is it's
00:12:20
primarily these days produ an analog
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with regular uh film roles convert into
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digital you might edit in digital
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reconvert it back to analog and
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distributed in analog distribute in
00:12:31
analog and distribute in digital both
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way as well and uh in in India today the
00:12:37
digital prints are almost uh uh gaining
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momentum they're almost 50% of your
00:12:42
analog prints so digitally India has
00:12:45
really um really taken the leap as such
00:12:48
in terms of projection in terms of
00:12:51
actual shooting utilization of digital
00:12:54
cameras like new cameras like red or the
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Genesis from Panavision and stuff like
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that it's it's still uh does not give
00:13:03
you the same results as film uh not only
00:13:07
in India but worldwide if if you see the
00:13:10
movies produced in Hollywood also
00:13:12
essentially the movies which will go
00:13:14
digital are either indie films yeah so
00:13:18
they are low budget and they need to be
00:13:20
done under under monetary constraints
00:13:23
and also they have to be faster the crew
00:13:25
has to be more
00:13:26
gorilla and it it's is is given new
00:13:29
filmmakers a lot of uh Elbow Room to
00:13:33
play around
00:13:34
with all the films which are driven by
00:13:38
visual effects so if you're doing a
00:13:41
Superman or um then it makes a lot of
00:13:44
sense because already a lot of film will
00:13:47
be composited later on digitally so you
00:13:51
your your medium is kind of uniform all
00:13:53
the way through because there are
00:13:55
questions of conversion from analog to
00:13:58
digital and digital to analog and so on
00:14:01
and so forth but film does give you a
00:14:04
certain depth I guess one other question
00:14:08
related to the industry um that I would
00:14:11
uh want to get your uh feedback and
00:14:13
perspective on relates to this um
00:14:16
Outsiders perspective of the movie
00:14:18
industry as being heavily relationship
00:14:20
based that one really needs to be in
00:14:24
that industry to uh to participate in
00:14:27
that industry and that it's very hard
00:14:29
for newcomers to come in now I don't
00:14:31
know whether you view yourself as a as a
00:14:33
a newcomer who entered in the space or
00:14:35
because you had in advertising you
00:14:37
already had many of the relationships
00:14:39
but what's your perspective on how uh
00:14:42
open the industry is to new entrance and
00:14:45
is this an industry where uh people with
00:14:49
new and creative ideas can easily enter
00:14:51
and and sort of bring about new
00:14:54
innovation
00:14:56
um true and false
00:14:59
it's uh yes um it it it was a very
00:15:04
closely held industry right I would say
00:15:06
five years ago and the years before that
00:15:10
uh say a good 20 25 years before that I
00:15:13
don't know the history before
00:15:15
that uh it it it was an industry which
00:15:18
was clannish which was uh kind of
00:15:20
relation based as you're saying and it
00:15:23
it was difficult to break through into
00:15:25
it and even if you were breaking through
00:15:28
you were doing par Cinema art Cinema so
00:15:30
on and so
00:15:31
forth but today uh it's completely
00:15:35
changed all together and it's changing
00:15:38
rapidly by the
00:15:39
year I I think the one if if one were to
00:15:43
attribute that one reason why it's no
00:15:45
more uh such a cottage industry anymore
00:15:50
and it's it's more open and um the
00:15:52
playing field is uh is much more it's a
00:15:56
level playing Ground now for everybody
00:15:58
who went
00:15:59
is because the finance has become
00:16:03
structured today movies uh corporates
00:16:05
have moved in movies are being made with
00:16:08
public
00:16:09
money and uh when the size of the
00:16:12
business grows and and and the finance
00:16:15
kind of becomes structured it comes
00:16:17
through institutions and banking
00:16:19
institutions and uh and obviously U the
00:16:24
the companies are also being listed in
00:16:26
the share market then the the whole game
00:16:30
changes the it's it's a different game
00:16:32
you're talking about
00:16:34
it's uh when when people who understand
00:16:38
the business of film mhm they they are
00:16:42
they emotionally they're not attached
00:16:44
with relationships they're more attached
00:16:47
with the results how the film is going
00:16:49
to be monetized how it's going to be
00:16:51
marketed and distributed what kind of
00:16:53
product are we raising the bar is the
00:16:56
content changing so all those things
00:16:59
come into play uh
00:17:02
tremendously um new and new Talent is
00:17:05
born every day as we talk they new
00:17:08
actors they new directors they new
00:17:11
um uh kind of writers coming into the
00:17:14
scene the Breakthrough kind of subjects
00:17:16
which are happening not the same
00:17:19
momentum as one would like to see but
00:17:23
yes the beginning is already there okay
00:17:25
you talked about the corporates entering
00:17:27
in and that financing is has
00:17:29
fundamentally changed now over the last
00:17:32
s or maybe even 10 years a lot of the
00:17:34
money the financing in uh in the Indian
00:17:38
film industry has has been coming from
00:17:40
multinationals including investors in
00:17:43
the US and Wall Street and so on has
00:17:45
that dried up now given the recession in
00:17:47
the US and the impact on the financial
00:17:49
services industry in the
00:17:51
US uh not really when it All Began there
00:17:55
was a the film funds are from the US and
00:17:58
from the West and uh mostly but now um
00:18:03
things have changed as um India is in
00:18:07
itself is a consumer market and we
00:18:09
consume a most of what we produce
00:18:12
ourselves almost 80 to 90% so even even
00:18:16
the money is now generating from within
00:18:19
the
00:18:19
country and uh you we finding Indian
00:18:22
institutions like idbi and and the
00:18:25
Indian Banks and uh they're all looking
00:18:27
at financing moves
00:18:29
as such and it's with completion bonds
00:18:33
coming and insurance coming into play
00:18:36
mhm uh they're a lot more secure as such
00:18:40
and even the distribution houses and
00:18:42
even the studios now entering Indian
00:18:44
distribution the the American Studios
00:18:47
the big five are in there now so it's
00:18:51
you you're almost able to underwrite
00:18:53
your film against
00:18:55
distribution so it's it's uh it's a lot
00:18:59
more healthier I would say uh with the
00:19:01
flow of funds being um more
00:19:05
organized as I observed the industry and
00:19:08
its transitions over the last um uh
00:19:10
couple of decades it seems like there
00:19:12
have been lot of changes in the industry
00:19:14
even in the last 6 seven years in your
00:19:17
mind what has been the most important or
00:19:20
interesting innovation in the industry
00:19:22
as a whole be it technological like the
00:19:25
digital uh Technologies we mentioned or
00:19:28
be it the way films get made in terms of
00:19:30
relationships or uh in or be it
00:19:33
financing or uh anything else in terms
00:19:36
of the way it's exhibited in your mind
00:19:39
what is the most important innovation
00:19:40
for the industry in the last 10
00:19:42
years
00:19:48
uh
00:19:49
I I I think
00:19:52
the there have been two key changes as
00:19:55
such the industry was driven by a star
00:19:59
system around 5 years ago I think that
00:20:03
system has broken the whole star system
00:20:06
has
00:20:07
fallen so earlier you would find a star
00:20:10
actor kind of uh doing many projects at
00:20:13
the same time there were instances when
00:20:16
actors were had
00:20:17
signed up to 10 to 12 films and their 10
00:20:21
films were on the floor so as a result
00:20:24
all of them used to suffer because the
00:20:26
time was limited yeah but now uh uh
00:20:31
better contracts and healthy contracts
00:20:33
have come in so one actor is doing one
00:20:36
film at a Time One technical crew gets
00:20:39
into a movie finishes it gets out and
00:20:42
gets into another production yeah so
00:20:45
it's all uh very well planned so
00:20:48
breaking of the star system yeah has
00:20:51
been instrumental uh towards better
00:20:54
Cinema that has also happened the other
00:20:57
key thing is is the clean Finance which
00:21:01
has come into the business and the
00:21:03
management of the finance is with people
00:21:06
who understand money yeah so it's not
00:21:09
just an unorganized way of giving money
00:21:11
at high interest rate you can actually
00:21:14
plan for the entire budget and then you
00:21:17
can uh plan your cash flow as for the
00:21:19
Milestones the film achieves achieves at
00:21:22
various stages so whether it's
00:21:24
development scripting pre-production
00:21:28
actual production and shooting of the
00:21:29
film post production and then uh the
00:21:32
marketing and selling of it so at every
00:21:35
stage the Quantum of Finance can move in
00:21:37
so you don't need the entire money at
00:21:39
the same time and because the money is
00:21:43
assured and it is not some money lender
00:21:46
who's a Cindi or a Jewish money lender
00:21:48
who's going to give you money so
00:21:50
everything is structured and um there is
00:21:53
kind of a timeline to your cash flows
00:21:56
inflows and outflows so that has brought
00:21:59
about a paradigm change in the whole
00:22:01
industry in the way uh we are thinking
00:22:04
the projects and the way they've been
00:22:06
implemented and the way the content is
00:22:08
now shaping up so uh all that is a very
00:22:11
healthy sign I must say so raak there's
00:22:14
been a lot of controversy lately about
00:22:17
intellectual property issues in the
00:22:19
industry
00:22:22
are are rights are properly attributed
00:22:24
are are people given their du due credit
00:22:27
what's your perspective on this is the
00:22:29
industry doing enough in terms of uh
00:22:32
managing IP carefully in terms of uh
00:22:35
paying for rights and suit and
00:22:39
attributing it uh when it's needed uh
00:22:41
yeah I there has been a lot of uh Cloud
00:22:45
over the subject of intellectual
00:22:47
property as
00:22:48
such uh the fact is uh first we have to
00:22:52
understand what is IP how do we separate
00:22:56
it from royalty and and how do we uh
00:22:59
separate it from publishing right so uh
00:23:04
uh when you create something you you
00:23:07
create an intellectual property and then
00:23:10
it is
00:23:11
monetized so uh for a long time the
00:23:16
money was being confused with uh IP
00:23:20
right and uh IP is unique is something
00:23:25
to what you create something which is
00:23:27
original
00:23:29
money is not
00:23:30
unique uh money is a common commodity so
00:23:34
that confusion needs to be sorted out so
00:23:37
that is definitely there as we are
00:23:40
talking uh the government of India is
00:23:42
going to table a bill and in the
00:23:45
parliament in this session very much uh
00:23:49
wherein the writers the directors uh the
00:23:52
composers the music directors and the
00:23:55
lyricists will have a copyright but then
00:23:59
again there's some ambiguity about it
00:24:01
because there should be more copyright
00:24:03
is is a part of a contractual engagement
00:24:07
yeah is you can discuss it over the
00:24:09
table and and you can let go of or
00:24:12
assign your copyright uh for a sum of
00:24:15
money so it uh essentially is evolving
00:24:20
uh Clarity will emerge um as we go
00:24:24
along uh it's it's a step in the right
00:24:27
direction though and and uh we ourselves
00:24:30
have taken the initiative uh I've have
00:24:33
uh myself almost uh uh written 700
00:24:37
letters to the ministry to the home
00:24:39
minister to the law minister to the
00:24:41
prime minister's office oh really uh got
00:24:44
gotten in all the organizations together
00:24:47
so my take in this is that Cinema is a
00:24:50
new medium is a new art
00:24:53
form and it's a collaborative art form
00:24:56
unlike Fine Arts uh uh where you compose
00:24:59
a song for or an individual art this is
00:25:03
collaborative so while a writer writes a
00:25:06
story the director uh kind of uh
00:25:10
partners with him and um takes it to a
00:25:12
producer and the producer then would
00:25:14
undertake the entire
00:25:16
risk of uh making the movie and then uh
00:25:21
walks in the cinematographers the
00:25:23
choreographers the action directors the
00:25:26
editors and so on on and so forth and
00:25:29
various departments so I think everybody
00:25:32
should be a part of a
00:25:34
royalty um the percentage of royalty
00:25:37
will depend on um your Market viability
00:25:40
your standing your past record and and
00:25:43
and and the project in the offering so
00:25:47
all this would evolve but uh I I think
00:25:49
it's a good idea to uh have some kind of
00:25:53
a point system where you can share your
00:25:56
royalty in perpetuity M and uh this will
00:26:00
bring
00:26:01
in um a lot of transparency into
00:26:06
everything but a lot of other questions
00:26:09
have to be answered uh the monetization
00:26:12
of the film and um how do we understand
00:26:17
what was the actual monetization and how
00:26:19
did the money flow only then once you
00:26:22
know once you can account that money so
00:26:24
all that which also in terms will
00:26:27
reflect how how the exhibition Works how
00:26:30
the money comes back to the producer
00:26:33
whether escrow accounts can be open and
00:26:35
Banks can be instructed to pay people uh
00:26:39
lifelong um we can learn um from uh from
00:26:44
from from the US as to how they have
00:26:47
implemented things we can also learn
00:26:50
from the mistakes of the West uh that's
00:26:53
the beauty of it where the system has
00:26:54
failed and thereby evolve our own
00:26:57
indianized system towards the the
00:27:00
sharing of Ip and and royalty I would
00:27:03
say all right great thanks so much for
00:27:05
taking the time um my pleasure
00:27:07
absolutely thanks for having me
00:27:22
over
