00:00:00
As far as turning on my wife, we've been together for 25 years and we actually
00:00:05
uh have yet to consummate our relationship. Oh. And they just always have it playing. So
00:00:12
I meet a lot of kids these days that say, "Oh god, I've seen Parks and Wreck seven or eight times through." To which
00:00:19
I say, "Let me recommend some books to you." You do a ton of blow and then dump
00:00:24
out a jigsaw puzzle and you go 72 hours. sit down at a big
00:00:30
butt plug. Uh yeah. Okay.
00:00:35
Okay. Nick Offerman, David Nick Offerman uh was a good time. This
00:00:42
guy I see out and about here and there. He's a great guy married to Megan Mley. So I see them together.
00:00:48
Yeah. Sometimes those she was on Will and Grace. Will Grace.
00:00:53
Uh hilarious. He has a book. He's got a book called, is it Little Woodchucks?
00:00:59
Little Woodchucks. He's quite the carpenter. And that's a we talk about that a lot. You don't really meet show
00:01:05
folk too much that can like he thinks all Americans should be able to just build a chair or build a table.
00:01:11
Sure. And don't be intimidated. So, Little Bridge is a way to introduce carpentry to your
00:01:17
kids and to uh dysfunctional adults as well. Yeah. Big uh movie called Sovereign
00:01:23
right now uh out. Um, so, uh, I saw the trailer. I didn't see the whole movie.
00:01:28
The trailer looks pretty riveting. It's not like a goofy comedy. Mhm. But he's very good in it. And, um, also,
00:01:36
you know, from Where the Millers, you know him from Parks and Wreck. He's done a ton of things. Everyone knows who this
00:01:42
guy is. Yeah. And he he does stand up. He doesn't really call it standup, but he also, that's another gear we talk about.
00:01:48
He plays guitar and he's he's sort of folksy up there. He's been um on the
00:01:54
scene for quite a while now, but you know, he's he's extremely humble about it. He really works a lot. He very was very he's very humble. He's
00:02:00
got a great voice. Um Mhm. must be doing a lot of voiceovers. Yeah. His voice and his look. It's like that's
00:02:07
Nick Offerman. Yeah. Good dude. And uh here he is. Have a good time with it.
00:02:14
I did not expect this. I thought it was John Ham, but I'm so thrilled that our guest today
00:02:24
Sean am. Damn, you grow a great mustache. Yeah, thank you. Good morning.
00:02:30
Good morning. Jeez, this voice. This guy does voiceovers for breakfast. Yeti microphone. I'm I'm making Here we
00:02:38
go. Let's see if if everybody's happy on our technical side. We'll give you a quick 20 minutes to
00:02:43
figure this out. I've put I now I have you in my cans which is uh your cans is like what Donardo used to
00:02:51
call headphones something we say in film making the cans let me ask you a question right off the bat
00:02:57
technical stuff like this and setting up electronics and that stuff and solving
00:03:03
all that compared to carpentry which is harder uh for you for me tech [ __ ] uh I
00:03:10
I thought I'm I'm a pragmatist and so in our house like Megan, my wife and I uh do a lot of
00:03:17
cartoons and whatnot. And so we we had to set up a studio in our house.
00:03:23
Oh. For voices and Yeah. And so I I I I master everything just to
00:03:28
the extent that I need to, right? Which is annoying because the, as you know, the systems change every seven
00:03:35
weeks. Like as soon as you master your operating system, they update it. Uh
00:03:43
yeah, they should have instead of Geek Squad, it should be called Tech [ __ ] Call us for your tech [ __ ] because it's
00:03:50
true. I You have to write the book every two weeks though is a problem. That's right. Did you do a cartoon during the pandemic
00:03:56
at from home? I did. Sure. I mean I think Sure. I think everybody uh did and started a
00:04:04
podcast. Um we Megan does Bob's Burgers and uh
00:04:09
Oh [ __ ] Yeah, we both did a show called The Great North that was written by a couple Bob's
00:04:15
Burgers writers, the Malino Sisters. Um, and I do I do like audio books and
00:04:22
uh some voice over work. So, we've got a a cute little setup.
00:04:27
It seems like you do a couple hours a day. No, I have a question about that. I'm gonna I'm gonna back up. I know.
00:04:33
I want I want to tell my story about guitar stands and blankets when you're finished. I want to tell about Great
00:04:40
White North. I think I did a demo track for that. Was that Were they in an airplane or something at the beginning
00:04:45
of this pilot? Were you on it for a long time or was it on a show that was on a long time? It was We just We just finished five
00:04:51
seasons and that's God damn. That's the end that's the end of it. Fox has thrown us in the dumpster.
00:04:58
Okay. So, I didn't get it. I It doesn't look like it's going to work out, Dana. I didn't know for five seasons if
00:05:04
I got that thing. I waited and waited. They sent it to me. I loved your tape. Uh,
00:05:10
okay. Thank you. They are checking your avails. I think I was in Hotel Transylvania and you were
00:05:16
in Hotel Transsylvania. How is your How is your team? I, you know, I noticed I was reading yesterday
00:05:21
what team is looking into. You do a podcast and guests team is advising team is working hard on
00:05:29
team. You have a team. I have a team. Everyone has a team. You don't have employee. You
00:05:34
don't have an agent or manager or lawyer. You have a team. You have a team. Yeah. I've got I've got a shooting forward who sets up my
00:05:41
podcast apparently. She's terrific. She's great a rebounder
00:05:46
as well. Defens defensive offensive rebounder. Are we talking about basketball?
00:05:52
Yeah, both ends, man. She does it all. Well, she does it all. All right. Both ends does it all. That's what I'm
00:05:57
looking for. Uh we don't know where to start. I mean, we I presume there's too much author.
00:06:05
um carpenter, actor, standup, and you the two things I noticed, you
00:06:11
have Little Woodchucks is is is kind of your latest book. That's right. I saw it on X and also this movie
00:06:18
Sovereign, which has a 90% of Rotten Tomatoes. Uh it's Yeah, it's fantastic. And it's
00:06:24
and it's a it's a f it's a hilarious pairing because the the book is really
00:06:30
fun and positive and light-hearted and it's it's it's my trip is I I encourage
00:06:36
people to make things with their hands. Like that's that's my Johnny Apples Seed uh mission.
00:06:43
And then the indie movie Sovereign, which is so exquisite, it's despite my
00:06:49
participation, this guy named Christian Swiggle wrote and directed it. It's a story of a a a sovereign citizen, which
00:06:56
is kind of like a QAnon conspiracy theorist inspired by a true story. It's
00:07:02
it's a terribly tragic thing. It's powerfully moving. It's uh people are
00:07:08
just crazy about it, but they're the exact opposite ends of of the emotional
00:07:13
spectrum. That trailer for Sovereign was heavy duty. I just saw it.
00:07:19
It's it's pretty wild. uh a kid named Jacob Trembley from Canada and then
00:07:24
another uh kid named Dennis Quaid who uh Dennis Quaid I think he's going to do big things.
00:07:31
Um is Jacob Tremble? He was in a movie I saw. He's a good kid and he's Is he your son in it? Yeah.
00:07:37
Oh yeah. I didn't recognize him. Okay, man. He will he will just break your heart. He's just incredible in it. And
00:07:44
you're sort of a tough dad in it. Um yeah, I I I am tough but loving.
00:07:50
That's that part of the theme of that film um is how fathers raise their sons and how that
00:07:58
might contribute to violence in our country in our modern day. So the me and
00:08:03
my son and then Dennis Quaid has a son who's on the police force and then
00:08:08
Tom the great Thomas man plays him and then he has a baby and so they all everybody weighs in on
00:08:15
how you should raise your sons, right? And the way the movie turns out, you're like, well, maybe don't go that
00:08:22
route. Yeah, sure. Because this the sense of modern
00:08:28
masculinity uh often leads to hate and violence, which I say is is a thumbs
00:08:34
down. I'd say that's the message of the movie, right? Do you think um what's a bigger
00:08:42
turn on? being a movie star, killing it stand up for your wife or you fixing
00:08:48
something or finishing your canoe or building with your hands because that's I didn't get that gene. I don't do it.
00:08:54
I'll probably get this book because I I think it'd be interesting to try to build a table, but what is the biggest turn on for your
00:09:01
wife when she sees you doing something? Okay, that's Thank you. That's a great question. Um
00:09:06
Okay, I'm going to start by saying I I think I I hope you will get this book and read
00:09:12
it. It's it's a short read and it's I think it's really funny. I think you guys would love the there's a a a
00:09:19
subversive sense of humor where it's like written for parents to read to their kids, but it's it's got a
00:09:25
hard-boiled sensibility. So, I'm like, "All right, kids. Are are your parents do your parents can they find their ass
00:09:31
with both hands? Like, do they are they feeding you?" Okay. And it there there's
00:09:36
a conspiratorial paradical sense of like let's get together and learn how to keep
00:09:42
making our our homes together uh and not let AI take over our lives. So I I I do
00:09:48
think you guys would find it fun. Um and uh as far as turning on my wife,
00:09:54
we've been together for 25 years and we actually uh have yet to consummate our
00:10:00
relationship. Oh. Um, on Tuesdays I'm allowed in the house for dinner.
00:10:07
Um, and so where you live in a dog house or not? I I stay in the yard. I mean, we're
00:10:13
Listen, she runs a tight ship. We're in Bair. It's nice. Yeah, you stay in the yard.
00:10:18
I You know what? I honestly I'm going to I have to think about that. What is a bigger turnon for her? I think
00:10:25
um I I think probably you know we both went to like theater school. Well,
00:10:31
that's not true. I went to theater school. She went to uh to Northwestern and did theater, but she was she was an
00:10:38
English major and was quickly plucked out of school. And for for your listeners that don't know, it's Megan
00:10:44
Mali from Will and Grace and Parks. Mali is the pronounc super talent. U
00:10:51
legendary funny sweetheart too. Most recently of the Righteous Gemstones and she has an amazing band called Nancy
00:10:58
and Beth that'll knock your socks off. Uh, so I feel like for both of us, like
00:11:04
even though we're lucky enough to get to work in in a few different circuses, we what we really want to do is like
00:11:12
medically affect an audience with acting work. And so probably like my work in
00:11:18
Sovereign uh has been accused of being affecting. And so I think something like
00:11:24
that it probably thrills her more than when I build a canoe.
00:11:29
Right. Ah. Okay. So when you're being I was just curious as an actor is it it obviously it
00:11:36
depends on the director who's on the set what's going on but what do you what do you when are you most excited to play
00:11:41
something? Is something really scares the hell out of you? Anger because you're kind of you're you're sort of a
00:11:47
contradiction. You can play the alpha male, you know, but you also can play really vulnerable. Well, I've just
00:11:53
observed this, you know. Thank you. Okay. Thanks, Lucky
00:11:59
in my Bronson voice. Or is there anything you haven't done, you know, in terms of acting that would turn you on? the way I I pick jobs and I
00:12:07
um I'm so I feel so stupidly lucky to even get to say the sentence when I pick
00:12:14
jobs as an actor that that I have a choice. Um I I it absolutely just has to do with
00:12:22
the writing and so it I'm I'm never looking for like okay next up I want to
00:12:28
do a western or I want to do a play or a comedy. It's just what organically
00:12:34
comes my way. Yeah. I'm looking forward to your western, David.
00:12:40
I go the next script that comes along is what I'm looking for. I hear you're a a hilarious shot. Um,
00:12:49
he's no he's no horseman, said he's remaking the apple dumpling gang.
00:12:54
Tim Conway. That's a brilliant idea actually. Yeah, that actually is a great idea. Was Barney F in that? Yes. I was just
00:13:01
going to say you should [ __ ] out the the catalog of Don Knots. [ __ ] out the cat. Just go through each
00:13:07
one. You should play Don Knots in a biopic. The Incredible Mr. Limpit. Oh my god. Now we're talking.
00:13:14
I So So when I read a script, it's it's completely organic. It's like, does this
00:13:21
uh writing move me, inspire me? And it could be the stupidest comedy like Rob
00:13:27
Cordrey's uh children's hospital where I'm just like this is the stupidest [ __ ] I have to be part of this.
00:13:34
Or like Conan will give me a bit to do that's so dumb that I'm like people are
00:13:40
going to I I can't wait to make people laugh with Conan, right? Or th this sovereign script is a great
00:13:47
example. My agent was like this is kind of cra like out of left field. It's very
00:13:53
unorthodox. Um, but just read it. And I read it and and I called him and was like, you're
00:13:59
right. I I think I have to play this guy. Um, and so I recently did a series
00:14:06
that'll be out next year with El Fanning and Michelle Feifer and doing scenes
00:14:12
with with like cra total movie stars like those two. That instills a thrilling fear in me.
00:14:22
Like I I once did a movie with Michael Keaton and I'll I'll compare the three
00:14:27
to each other. They're all They're all performers where the camera I'm sure you
00:14:32
guys have had this uh and people have it with you in your own way. The camera's on you
00:14:38
and you're looking at Michael Keaton or El Fanning Michelle Feifer and you're I'm supposed to keep my [ __ ] together
00:14:46
and and and give like a commensurate performance while a huge part of my
00:14:51
conscious is like Michelle Feifer is making eye contact with you. Yeah. Like
00:14:56
when in your life would she look at you, you know, when would that happen? Michael Keaton is firing lightning bolts
00:15:01
at you out of his beautiful blue eyes. Oh, it's [ __ ] It's my line.
00:15:06
So, I'm I I I love that thrilling feeling of of when I read something and
00:15:12
I'm like, one way or another, this is feels really scary and challenging and
00:15:18
that that keeps me from ever getting jaded or bitter.
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00:17:30
It seems like um like I was going to bring that up because I'm such a huge fan of Michael Keaton and that movie and
00:17:36
when he was on our podcast, I said that every movie star has a sleeper, something that's better than people
00:17:43
know. It's like this underground and away movie. And then I said, "It's the founder." And he goes, "I was going to
00:17:48
say that." Oh, wow. Because that's like a perfect movie. Like it's kind of like a perfect cheeseburger. like you can recommend
00:17:55
that movie to anyone and you're spectacular in it by the way. Thank you. Thank you. And really just very talk about empathy for
00:18:01
those guys and um a great job on Carol Lynch as as my brother.
00:18:07
Well, yeah, you two were so heartwarming in that and just it was fantastic. And what Katon does really really well is um
00:18:15
and it's a common actor thing, but to think on camera with no dialogue, you know, and uh do you do you like to do
00:18:23
that as well? You know, just just because he'll he'll he'll really just kind of he'll be thinking about it's a
00:18:30
movie where you can read what's going on with No. Yeah. Yeah. He does it so so brilliantly, you know.
00:18:35
I mean, sure. I I uh would I would say that yes, I aspire to I mean the the
00:18:40
thing is Michael's been a movie star for decades and I I've been having such a
00:18:46
goddamn good time. I'm 55. I got my big break like I worked a lot in Chicago
00:18:52
theater and then when I moved to LA in my late 20s I started you know guest star on er like uh slowly rolling the
00:19:00
snowball Sundance movies but I was 38 years old when I got parks and
00:19:05
recreation that catapulted me into getting to choose roles and getting to
00:19:11
do much me meteor stuff. But I still am not quite like like the last few years
00:19:18
I've gotten to do stuff that's maybe at the level of magnitude that could be a Michael Keaton role. And so I'm still
00:19:25
learning to own the the the scenery and the camera where I'm like I'm going to
00:19:32
take my time and think about what you're asking me because the camera just [ __ ] I've got so much charisma.
00:19:38
Yeah. That I can just I can just You just love to watch me think. So, I'm still I'm still
00:19:44
Well, it's hard because you have other actors and you're like, are they bored with my performance? Are they thinking,
00:19:50
"Hurry up, guy. You're not this important." Well, Keen will do. He'll turn toward the window, even if he's a scene with
00:19:56
other people, and think he's does a lot of thinking. But, uh, you know,
00:20:01
confidence is an interesting thing to me, this idea of confidence. And I've always thought to myself or it that you
00:20:08
could be 99% confident. Say you create create this strata whatever and the last
00:20:14
1% is more important than the previous 90%. Which means all the negative voices
00:20:20
are silent. I guess Brando got it at 21. Geniuses, you know. Yeah.
00:20:25
And all that's gone and then you're just pure and that have you did you I mean the one that stands out is the Last of
00:20:32
Us. your part in that where you seem really in the pocket, whatever you want
00:20:38
to call it. So, talk about that as an actor. Uh, well, thank you for for saying that and I I can't I can't ever receive a
00:20:44
compliment about that episode of that show without immediately throwing it to uh to Craig Mason who wrote it
00:20:52
and and Murray Bartlett, my scene part my Yeah, he's great. My husband both great
00:20:57
in that. Uh but but the we knew like Craig sent it to me and and I read it
00:21:05
and me and I said Megan read this and we were like like every everyone knew as soon as they
00:21:11
read it we were like this is the greatest [ __ ] episode of TV and we I arrived in Calgary to shoot it and
00:21:18
everyone was walking around holding the script up like we have to not [ __ ] this
00:21:24
up. And so even so, even knowing that I it's funny. I I never uh feel I mean I'm
00:21:32
curious, you know, I don't ever feel like I'm shooting three-pointers like Brando would in a scene. So even in uh
00:21:41
The Last of Us, a lot of that emotional vulnerability was terrifying to to try
00:21:47
and reach honestly on camera for the first time. like
00:21:52
uh I've had the privilege of doing a lot of great stuff over the years, but my new thing and this this show actually
00:21:59
with uh with L and Michelle which will be out next year um that it's the first time that I'm
00:22:05
getting complicated emotional relationships. And so I I love that because I still feel like a freshman
00:22:12
like it's it's those butterflies of like how can I get a girl to like me like and
00:22:18
I'm on camera. Um and so you know it it my confidence definitely grows and grows
00:22:25
and grows where I I def the most important thing I learned to bolster that confidence at some point is these
00:22:33
people think like they picked you out of all the people to play this guy.
00:22:38
Yeah. And so whatever misgivings you have, whatever foibless or or weaknesses I have, that's
00:22:46
part of what they picked. And so let that go and just do your goddamn best.
00:22:52
Be as prepared as you can and do honest as honest of work as you can. And even
00:22:58
so, I never feel like I'm it's it's it's subjective art. So I'll never feel like
00:23:04
I've never do a take and I'm like, "Yes, nothing better than that."
00:23:10
There's always there's always something. There's always something where you go back to Video Village or you go watch it
00:23:15
or you say, "Was that good?" and they go, "Yeah, moving on." In your head, you're like, "Was it like are you that I
00:23:21
got it?" Like, because you also I don't do as many
00:23:26
dramas, but or any, but when you're doing different things, sometimes you do it and you go, "Uh, I think I'm doing
00:23:34
this right, but I can be adjusted." And so, if I'm somehow off here, I hope
00:23:39
someone pulls me aside and says, "I think you're kind of missing it a little bit what we want to hear." And then you go, "Got it." And that's where a good
00:23:46
director can make you look good. Oh, 100%. I mean, I I agree. Uh I mean,
00:23:53
especially the pace that we shoot at these days now that we no longer shoot on film and these new cameras, the re
00:24:01
camera and the red camera require basically no lights.
00:24:07
The the turnaround is a thing of the past where they're like, you used to have a break. You used to be able to
00:24:12
pace your day where you're like, "Okay, then what I know when they turn the world around, I'm going to have an hour
00:24:18
off so I can brush up my monologue or whatever, but now we work at this incredible pace." And so I I I defy, you
00:24:27
know, the the most talented actor is can't be perfectly right every time. And
00:24:33
so on every project, I'm so grateful when a director is like, "All right, I think we got we've done three your way
00:24:40
and I think one of I think we got that, but what if this other idea?" And
00:24:46
invariably every time you're like, "God damn it, you just made me twice the
00:24:51
actor. Thank you so much." Any and then you have a choice that you got their that way or their way. And
00:24:57
it's it's uh very important. Have you just to clarify, Dana, for pe for people
00:25:02
at home, for people turn it around. Let's say you're doing a western and you know I do
00:25:07
a lot and then they're shooting my scene. They shoot a wide shot and when they shoot like let's say Nick talking
00:25:14
and there's a lot of stuff behind them. Then they say let's take a break and get the other actors closeup. They have to
00:25:20
turn the cameras around and then they have to take all the covered wagons and move them behind that side and move the
00:25:25
crew on that side, all the lighting on this side. And that stuff takes an hour. So throughout your day, you do have
00:25:31
these breaks where you get to think for a second and go over your lines and cram and go, I don't think I know these
00:25:36
perfectly. Let's run them again. And when you don't get that, like you're saying, it starts to go, "Oh [ __ ] when
00:25:42
I get that morning makeup chair, I better be ready for almost anything today." Cuz they can flip it and say, "Actually, we're gonna start with the
00:25:48
last scene today." And you're like, "What?" Guaranteed. And I'm I'm the king of uh
00:25:55
I'm the king of on the drive home I always always think of the better way
00:26:02
I'm like that's how I should have said that joke or that's the perfect comeback. Um I'd something uh tripped me up Dana
00:26:10
that I just want it's a tiny thing but uh if if I can bring the conversation around to comedy I don't know if you
00:26:16
guys are comfortable discussing that subject. We love every We love when people ask us anything or say anything
00:26:22
about whenever I'm accused of of being a standup. I you I kind of bristle because
00:26:29
I am such a fan of obviously your guys jugger the juggernaut careers in comedy
00:26:34
you've both had. And I do tour and perform, but I say that I'm a humorist
00:26:41
because the thing that all of my comedy friends have that I don't is a joke
00:26:47
machine. like you among other things, you guys are incredibly you have a
00:26:52
facility to get to say things at the drop of a hat that the audience is like,
00:26:58
"How the [ __ ] did they come up with that?" The the the person I've spent probably the most time with that
00:27:04
watching him do it is Zach Galifanakis. The but but you guys are both geniuses
00:27:09
in your own right. I've enjoyed you for decades. And so when I get up in front
00:27:15
of an audience, I do songs and I but but I I don't speak in joke. I speak in
00:27:21
essay. And so it's it's and and I have a great time. I love touring. Uh, but I I
00:27:28
just always when people say standup, I'm like, uh, don't please don't mistake me for the great like I I I feel like I
00:27:36
belong more with uh uh Spalding Gray or Garrison Keeler or
00:27:42
Yeah, I know what you're saying. Well, that's why Yeah, you're couched as a standup, but your your use of language is so different and quirky.
00:27:48
If George car if George Carlin was half as funny, I' i'd be in his league.
00:27:55
Well, you have your own lane, and it's almost harder to do to find an interesting lane other than just Dana
00:28:01
and I are like, but you're up there taking your time. You're owning the stage. You're Yeah, I
00:28:08
could say you're humorous. You're not you're not needy for the next laugh. You're also using quirky word packages,
00:28:15
quirky ways of saying something. Part of your charm is that you're
00:28:21
unexpected. And Zach is another example of a just genius mind that uh in his own
00:28:27
weird world that just completely can drop me with stuff he says. He's so good.
00:28:32
He really Yeah, he really is. Uh yeah, Zach is he's a very special talent. I hope he
00:28:38
gets discovered uh by the public someday.
00:28:43
[ __ ] that's so great. Do you uh I was just thinking when you're going back to acting and directing. Have you had a
00:28:50
director that's giving you too many notes between takes and you start to feel yourself getting annoyed? And how
00:28:56
do you deal with how do you deal with necessary even benign confrontation in in the in a
00:29:04
movie set? Well, I I've been really spoiled, I got to say. Like, maybe because um of the the weird organic uh
00:29:13
career path I've had, the good writing usually brings is surrounded with good
00:29:20
directors and good producers. Mhm. So, by and large, but I I definitely do
00:29:25
that happens frequently where and I love collaborating with a director and sometimes the writer sometimes a writer
00:29:31
will get in there too and I appreciate it. Like, like I said, like we pointed out uh rather than I I
00:29:39
don't think I'm Lawrence Olivier where I'm like, "Please let me create my masterpiece. Step the [ __ ] away." I'm
00:29:45
like, "No, great, great, great. you're helping me achieve, you know, the the the maximum medicine with what we're
00:29:53
making here. But even even an enthusiastic, smart director even can
00:29:59
just get to they're like, "Okay, they come over after a scene and they can get to a second note and then a third note."
00:30:06
Yeah. Like and then I don't know if you saw, but there's a comma or whatever and I'm
00:30:11
like, "Okay." and some but the thing is I'm I'm usually friendly where I'll either say okay I'm going to do the
00:30:18
first two and then if if you still need the comma or whatever like yeah
00:30:23
or or or I'll just you know I one of the great things I learned writing books and
00:30:30
I have a wonderful editor named Jill Schwarzman who's done all my books and
00:30:35
with my first book I'm a total perfectionist and I'm a workaholic so I write this book And like so many things
00:30:43
that we that we work on, you learn you can you can edit it for the rest of your
00:30:49
life. Like you at some point you have to say, "Okay, put it in the goddamn bookstore."
00:30:55
Like, "Yeah, because we keep going back and forth with editing." And it was such a huge
00:31:00
lesson to let go of an artwork or a a project and say, "All right, I've done
00:31:07
my goddamn best on this. Could I keep tweaking it for years?" Sure. Sure. And and
00:31:12
I'm doing that right now. It's and it's so true for TV and film
00:31:17
that the editor and the director have to say, "Okay, show it. Just show it to the
00:31:23
people." Because you're no one ever thinks, "Okay, this is perfect." It's
00:31:29
someone has to stop you almost. It's like, "Just stop. This is your deadline. You need the end of a semester. You got
00:31:35
to turn in your paper." Um, and so when a director is being like that with me, I just think, okay, I'm
00:31:41
going to do my best to give you what you're asking for, and it might only be half of what you're asking for, but
00:31:47
ultimately we will present that collaboration with confidence.
00:31:53
Well, they don't realize it's too hard to absorb some of these notes. It's like to remember the scene already, all your
00:31:58
lines, and you go, "Oh, and go a little dark on that." Oh, yeah. and you're making a sandwich and the mustard is like squirting water
00:32:04
and then script comes up and goes you were shaking the mustard on the third line and you go it's Indianapolis it's a pit stop like a
00:32:12
race car because you got the hair people are doing the hair looking at you you're
00:32:17
getting notes and everyone's looking at you it's your closeup it's the money shot and you're trying just to be loose
00:32:23
and totally in the moment it's a little it's a hat trick it's so funny there's yeah there's someone like pinning down your
00:32:30
prosthetic And and the director's like, "Now listen, emotionally, I need you to get to a place."
00:32:35
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some great actor or actress, I can't remember, was saying, retired from acting and basically happily, but just
00:32:42
said, "No one's going to ever pick at my shirt or come at my hair again." And it was like
00:32:47
what they they were so overjoyed. What I was gonna I it I watched uh Vertigo
00:32:55
recently non sequittor but you know Hitchcock was a minimalist and there was a lot of
00:33:02
moving masters that just means the camera moves it doesn't just still it doesn't you know unless he needs it
00:33:08
and now in the modern era for a long time with digital and being able to go in there you feel like the director's
00:33:14
watching gets bored and the editor and then we'll cut some more and cut some
00:33:19
more and you saw it maybe when it was in simple shots and go this is a great scene and then it gets strangled.
00:33:26
I Megan and I talk about this a lot because we our our our uh popular culture and
00:33:33
our our um our attention deficit disorder has gotten to the point it kind of started with Oliver Stone. I I was a
00:33:41
I loved sword fighting on stage. I was a choreographer and it's still if anybody's listening I'm I'm still
00:33:47
desperately wanting to play a swashbuckler. Um the and and Oliver Stone we we you
00:33:54
know three of us we make a generalization. Yeah. I believe the number of musketeers
00:34:01
required is three. Ah um Oliver
00:34:07
to make a generalization that's unfair to Oliver Stone but he brought in this sense of fast cutting where where
00:34:15
at first it was fresh and exciting like the violent cutting of of combat scenes
00:34:20
of every sort. But for those of us that that love the artistry of Jackie Chan or
00:34:28
Jean Kelly where you see the the ballet and the use um and and I feel like
00:34:34
popular culture has gotten to so cut up to the point that we are now having this
00:34:40
renaissance where shows like the studio and other great filmmakers are are are
00:34:46
masturbating with the wer the long one moving you know moving and and they do it incredibly. I
00:34:54
I don't you know I I don't consider masturbating to be a disparaging verb. I
00:35:00
think it's a triumph uh of mother nature. But I mean I I Megan and I really
00:35:07
appreciate that as theater actors where don't don't just depend on flash. Flash
00:35:13
is fun and has its place, but you've got these actors and this writing and the
00:35:19
scenery. Um, to to make you what you immediately made me think of is in in
00:35:26
the movie Sovereign, this wonderful actor Thomas Man plays Dennis Quaid's son. And I did a movie with Thomas uh I
00:35:34
guess about 10 years ago called Me and Earl and the Dying Girl. And it won
00:35:40
Sundance. It won both things at Sundance, the a the trophy and the audience award.
00:35:45
Mhm. And rightly so. It's a it's a beautiful movie and Thomas is the lead. And
00:35:53
we we got this incredible um uh cinematographer from from Korea who had
00:35:59
done this movie called Old Boy. And I'm not going to try and butch remember and butcher the the guy's name, but he's the
00:36:06
guy who shot Old Boy. and Alfonso Gomez Rahon is the director
00:36:12
and on the very first day. He says to his Korean DP who can't speak a word of
00:36:18
English, there's a translator and it's a shot with me on a couch and
00:36:23
we're in a living room in Pittsburgh and he's like, "Okay, we're going to see these two boys walking up the front
00:36:28
sidewalk through the window. They're going to say something to this cat sitting on the window sill. Then we're
00:36:34
going to come around on Nick and he's watching a Klauskinsky movie. Then we're going to come around and the boys are
00:36:39
arriving at the door and we're going to start the scene. This is the first shot of the movie and I just was like, and I
00:36:46
love everybody there. Like I I have no misgivings to this point. Connie Britain and I play the his mom and dad
00:36:53
and and he he says this and I'm like, "Oh, we're fucked." Like this is this is
00:36:58
this is a this is a 23-day Sundance shoot. Yeah. And we got it in like two takes. and and
00:37:06
it was one of the rare times that I've worked with a director who aggressively used the camera in a hitchcockian sense.
00:37:14
It was so beautiful. Um and I I I've my my role is a small supporting but I
00:37:20
highly re this movie is so gorgeous. It's really funny and ultimately makes you cry at the end. Um
00:37:26
what's the name again? It's called Me and Earl and the Dying Girl. Okay.
00:37:31
Uh yeah, when you get it's so incredible like when these in this day and age when somebody slows
00:37:38
down and that's act that's actually what my woodworking book is about is slowing
00:37:43
down your life off of your smartphones and your screens to to a human pace.
00:37:50
No, you don't have to. I mean No, I'm going to share that thought on X right now if you don't mind. That's right. No, go for it.
00:37:56
Make a Tik Tok of me. Let me say it again. Beep boop. Was Birdman was the Going back to
00:38:02
Michael Keaton, was it Birdman, the one with the five minute shots? That was the other extreme, you know.
00:38:08
Dude, I just saw the player. Remember the player name from about 20 years ago.
00:38:14
That's uh it's Robins Coen Brothers, right? Uh who directed it? It was about
00:38:21
showbiz. Yeah, Tim Robbins is early. Cohen brothers opens with a maybe 10 minute shot.
00:38:28
Oh yeah. God that's on studio. I mean yeah those guys the I I just I
00:38:36
love to make things. Here's the thing. The world of capitalism tells us make things as fast as you can. That's how
00:38:43
you make the most money. And that's like the the global mantra. We're marching to that goddamn Elon anthem.
00:38:51
And so what I desperately, you know, in my tiny wood shop, I'm like, "Hang on,
00:38:57
it's your life is way more enjoyable if you slow down and build your own dining
00:39:02
table or if you do shots like the opening of the player." Like that that
00:39:08
movie experience is going to be so much more delicious for everybody involved. And you're somebody's going to make
00:39:14
17,000 less dollars, but every but it's it's a much better meal. I'm talking
00:39:20
about it 20 years ago. 20 years later where you say and every actor in it. It's so fun to go like you
00:39:27
with your the couch when you feel the camera. That's the scariest. There's no cue when you feel
00:39:33
it. It's coming. It's here. That's the funnest. Everybody gets it right. You know those shots. I was I was
00:39:40
watching the whole thing going I wonder how many how long it took to shoot a day and then I was watching more. like two
00:39:46
days where they have to choreograph everything and just keep trying it, going, "All right, we're going to try one." Everyone's like, "You fall here,
00:39:52
there's a car crash. There's this." Very hard to do, but fun to see. It's astonishing. I mean, it's it's an
00:39:59
astonishing thing to just finish a feature film. Like, if you see your film
00:40:04
or your friend's film in a theater, even if it sucks eggs, you go hug them
00:40:10
and be like, "Jesus Christ." It's a It's impossible to make a feature film.
00:40:17
It shouldn't be allowed. The thing is the bad ones are as hard to make as a good ones. I've had both and
00:40:22
it's like, "Holy shit." People go, "What the fuck?" I go, "I can't believe if I knew it was going to I would have put
00:40:27
less effort in." But you're trying to make every day, every line good, and when it doesn't work out, you're like,
00:40:33
"God, all that work, it's so hard. You can't believe it even gets finished." You're right. as I suspected. I I sorry,
00:40:40
it's niggling me and uh it's I just I just looked it up and it's Robert Altman made the player.
00:40:46
Yeah, it was niggling all of us. I was I I'm just curious per this conversation.
00:40:52
I I conflated it with Bart and Frink. That's a great word. Do you actively increase your Do you read the dictionary
00:40:59
or whatever? Because you seem to have a pretty big dictionary. I don't I I do love vocabulary. I I
00:41:06
because it's a place uh I I started in the Catholic church as
00:41:11
an alter boy and then they had me reading the gospel uh readings as the
00:41:17
lector. And so at age like 14, I'm up there reading to the church full of
00:41:22
people reading like the the gospel readings. And that was where I think it
00:41:27
it all began for me where I was like, "Oh, if I depending on how I tone this
00:41:33
reading, I can make my cousin laugh." Like if I'm a little too serious with my
00:41:38
delivery, the congregation is moved and my cousin is like, "That was [ __ ] hilarious,
00:41:44
man." Very inspired by Leslie Nielsen's line
00:41:50
readings and Naked Gun and so forth. True. Oh, I was talking about that yesterday. You know, all respect to Liam
00:41:56
Niss in the the latest one before Nesley, he just there's something magic
00:42:01
about his timing and his tone in that those movies naked Gun. Yeah, there's
00:42:06
someone decided take a serious guy and get don't and don't call me Shirley. And you're like, wait, that's funny. Like
00:42:13
someone goes, if you did this the whole movie, it's such a gamble. Oh yeah. And the airplane too, their
00:42:19
earlier one, Peter Graves, you know? Yeah. You know, do you like gladiator movies?
00:42:24
I mean, it's just I was going to ask you because I because we have you here. It's like just quickly, what are the movies
00:42:31
that you and your wife would watch more than once or performances that really
00:42:37
stand out? You know, my wife and I have different movies that that you revisit
00:42:42
because they're so brilliant. I'm I'm going to uh if may I excuse myself for a tinkle and think about that
00:42:50
and I'll be right back. Absolutely. We have editing capability.
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00:44:04
So, the thing about Nick, why he's a a great person to interview is that Nick
00:44:11
is real. Uh oh, he's back. You're back.
00:44:17
Yeah. Oh, Dana was giving you a compliment when you were gone. Uh, please continue. Don't let me interrupt you.
00:44:22
Uh, you know, The Last of Us, you won the Emmy. I didn't know if I mentioned that.
00:44:27
You said he's very and you gave gave a very quirky acceptance speech. Very, very you. Very
00:44:33
interesting. So you're eccentric. Do you go to someone for speeches? Do
00:44:39
you go to someone and say anything you would say? If there anything funny you just have. I know. Believe me, I might go to
00:44:45
someone and go, "Give me something for this." Oh, for sure. I I uh I I love um
00:44:51
anything that I do when I tour as a humorist. I write my material, but I, you know, I'm friends with uh the genius
00:45:00
writers and who who who love like their bread and butter is they love for me to send them my
00:45:08
stuff and they're like, "Here's two jokes about Brett Kavanaaugh or whatever." And I'm like, "Fantastic."
00:45:14
And and and it's funny, they refuse uh payment. I'm like, "Let me like, let me pay you." And
00:45:22
and it's and they're like, "No, like if you get a laugh with my joke, that's my pay." It's so flattering. Yeah.
00:45:28
So, but so then I send them a nice bottle of something they they like to drink.
00:45:33
Mhm. Um that's so I while I was urinating for 17 minutes. Uh
00:45:39
yeah, that was a long break. I That's a very There are a couple interesting things about your question.
00:45:44
One is I feel like Megan and I the answer to your question
00:45:52
is is historical. It's like singing in the rain. It's it's great performances
00:45:58
from our youth that are that are monumental and foundational. Um and
00:46:05
innocent and nice. Donald O' Conor make them laugh. I mean Yeah. And I mean the films of of Mel
00:46:13
Brooks, uh, like Mark's Brothers, uh, Laurel and Hardy. We're we watch a ton
00:46:19
of Laurel and Hardy. And there's this scene at the end of their movie, The Music Box, where they're trying to mo
00:46:25
get a piano up a set of stairs in Echo Park. Famous scene. And and and they they finally get it up
00:46:32
and get it into the the house and they do this little dance with each other. and they like hook arms and do a little
00:46:38
dance and we consider that scene to be this that's our marriage like that
00:46:44
represents our household. Interesting. Nice. That's the two of us. Um but it
00:46:50
but in modern in the modern age like cuz we you get questions like this sometimes
00:46:56
and what we what we've realized is we would watch Will and Grace and Parks and
00:47:02
Wreck when they aired and we've never seen them again. there there are some things we've done
00:47:09
that uh we've never seen. Um but we but
00:47:14
with all of the the preponderance of of things available to us to watch or listen to
00:47:21
uh or read these days um we we really
00:47:26
it's very rare that we would ever it would ever occur to us to watch something a second time. And which
00:47:32
brings me to something I find very interesting and I've been the great beneficiary of just lucky timing that
00:47:39
parks and wreck happened. when it first began to hit uh around 2010,
00:47:47
uh social media was also just beginning to hit like memes and and gifs or gifs were
00:47:55
were just and so the they were just arriving on the scene and the world was like does anybody make funny faces like
00:48:02
who can we plug in here? So, we benefited from that timing. And then when we were all done, people don't
00:48:09
realize now that we were never a hit show. We were on the bubble every year. We And it was because we were
00:48:15
No one realizes that we were in the transition from the Neielson ratings to DVR to streaming.
00:48:24
Oh. And so the kids were all going crazy for Parks and Rick, but it wasn't showing up on the on the the rating
00:48:32
system, which was a real bummer because we we didn't get award nominations and
00:48:38
we didn't get uh a raise, you know, like we we were kind of one of the biggest
00:48:44
hit shows critically, but business-wise it never it never clicked for us. And so
00:48:51
then, especially once the pandemic hit, there's this new thing, especially among young people, where they pick a show
00:48:57
like Friends or The Office or Parks and Wreck, and it's their comfort show and
00:49:03
they just always have it playing. So, I meet a lot of kids these days that say, "Oh god, I've seen Parks and Wreck
00:49:10
seven or eight times through." To which I say, "Let me recommend some books to
00:49:15
you." Like, there there are things you could be doing. like I I'm I would love for you to see it once.
00:49:22
Let me teach you how to whittle. But it's a crazy phenomenon in the modern day that that uh that the kids
00:49:29
because you also if you loved a show when we were young, you couldn't watch it again.
00:49:35
Yeah. Well, you wait six months pieces of Well, then that made great films. Great
00:49:41
films are hard to make. When my wife, we're looking in for old films. We've seen The Godfather, you know, we we
00:49:47
revisit those two. Uh, but there's just not a plethora. I mean, Quinton Tarantino, whoops, name drop. I was
00:49:53
interviewing him, substituting for Jimmy Kimmel. He said there's no great movies between the year 2000 and it was 2023
00:50:02
when I interview him. No really great movies besides mine. Basically, I'm paraphrasing,
00:50:07
but I thought one that really stood out was The Descendants with George Clooney
00:50:13
as something that we will visit once in a while. We also go back to Sound of Music, which I became possessed by and
00:50:19
was not a fan of musicals as a kid. I'll watch it and then I became possessed by
00:50:24
it. As the greatest arc of a of a couple, of a relationship I've ever seen, I must have done
00:50:30
something right. The song in the gazebo. Yeah. Just gets me every time. Somewhere in my youth and childhood, I must have done
00:50:37
something good. Yeah. What? When I was a kid living out in the little in the middle of a cornfield
00:50:43
growing up in the 70s, we And when we finally got a VCR in like 1982 or
00:50:49
something, never had cable my whole life. We had five video cassettes and two of
00:50:54
them were Singing in the Rain and The Sound of Music. It's interesting how ubiqu like how how abbey road certain
00:51:02
movies are where it's like well everyone knows the white album has to have this one.
00:51:07
Yeah. Yeah. The Wizard of Oz was another um Well, that was that was that was good.
00:51:14
That was good. Uh Nick, before we let you go, I want to say that um I had a when I did this old show, Just Shoot Me.
00:51:21
Oh my god, a few people remember back there. um that uh Megan was right next to me with Will and Grace and she was
00:51:28
always so hilarious, so wonderful and always so great on her show. Tell her hi and uh and uh we had a great
00:51:35
time that during that run of both of those shows. So much fun over there watching them in their new cars. Anyway,
00:51:41
sources uh but uh great to talk to you, Nick. Really, really appreciate it. And uh we
00:51:48
we Oh, we can't have you hang up right away. You have to wait a hair Oh, don't worry. of our technology,
00:51:53
whatever. I met you and your lovely wife. I like that expression backstage at the Largo and got to chat
00:52:00
with you guys for five minutes and lovely people. Well, we're not
00:52:05
not Hollywood phonies. I'm just going to say it. No, no, we're super boring. And I and I
00:52:11
con I I uh recommend that to everyone who thinks a Hollywood I I don't think
00:52:18
anyone's having a good time going to clubs and like chasing whatever the
00:52:23
diddy party idea is. We stay home. We literally do jigsaw puzzles and listen
00:52:30
to like stodgy murder mysteries uh read as audio books. That's that's that's our
00:52:36
line of coke. It can be fun. Listen, that's a new that's a different form of fun that people are maybe picking up on again.
00:52:42
Scrabble that was during the D parties. My wife, unless he gets out. Yeah, you you do you just you do a ton of blow
00:52:50
and then dump out a jigsaw puzzle and you go 72 hours,
00:52:55
sit down at a big butt plug. Uh yeah. All right. Thanks, Nick. Hey, good to
00:53:01
see you, bud. And we'll talk soon.
00:53:07
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