00:00:00
I just want to be clear here I'm trying
00:00:01
to do a docket and we have to put the
00:00:05
kabash on this Insanity of the soap
00:00:09
opera that is becoming opening eye saxs
00:00:11
because every week it's three four five
00:00:14
stories have you seen what's happened
00:00:16
this week yeah of course got to catch
00:00:18
the audience up here let's catch the
00:00:20
audience up on what's happened
00:00:22
here this week on General AI
00:00:26
hospital is Sam alman's job security and
00:00:29
Jeopardy
00:00:31
whose data was stolen this
00:00:33
time what did y see why isn't he talking
00:00:37
about it and with our special guest will
00:00:40
our special guest get her revenge
00:00:42
General AI Hospital brought to you by
00:00:46
the drama queens at open air
00:00:49
wow that who made that that was great
00:00:52
did you make that yeah that was me 10
00:00:54
out of 10 that was my idea but Nick's
00:00:57
and lon's execution so shout out to
00:01:00
calanis you finally landed the the plane
00:01:02
broken clock's right twice a day took
00:01:04
four years that was awesome broken clock
00:01:07
is right twice a day the Jason that's
00:01:11
my let your winners
00:01:14
ride rman
00:01:18
D and instead we open source it to the
00:01:21
fans and they've just gone crazy with
00:01:23
[Music]
00:01:26
it but seriously there was a big drama
00:01:30
sax I don't know if you saw this but uh
00:01:32
like you couldn't have missed it with
00:01:33
the
00:01:34
scarjo so they made an emergency they
00:01:36
had an emergency meeting got all the
00:01:38
developers together and they've reset
00:01:39
they took Scarlett Johansson out and
00:01:41
they got a new person I think arguably
00:01:43
better I'm freeberg I'm curious your
00:01:44
take on this it's a better hey gbd how's
00:01:46
it
00:01:47
going good good yeah good week what's
00:01:50
going on I'm doing fine uh I'm going to
00:01:52
be at father real soon and I think I can
00:01:55
have you help with some dad jokes um I'm
00:01:58
going to tell you a joke and you tell me
00:02:01
if it passes as a dad joke I've never
00:02:03
done that before all right what do you
00:02:06
call a giant pile of
00:02:08
kittens give it to me a
00:02:12
m no didn't quite land all right there
00:02:15
it is folks if you want you can switch
00:02:18
to Saxy poo so just go into open they
00:02:21
stole my voice now yeah they stole yours
00:02:23
go into open ai go to voices and then
00:02:26
just pick Saxy poo it's right there
00:02:28
between Putin
00:02:30
and Tucker Putin Saxy F Tucker you can
00:02:33
find all your favorite Maga guests on
00:02:36
the number one Maga program Allin
00:02:39
podcast here we go all right we're off
00:02:41
to a strong start here everybody's in a
00:02:43
good mood Let's uh let's keep the good
00:02:45
times rolling here and let's go over the
00:02:47
scarjo Saga to recap if you're living
00:02:50
under a rock this week it came out that
00:02:53
open AI specifically Sam had contacted
00:02:56
Scarlett Johansson multiple times about
00:02:58
lending her voice for for one of open
00:03:00
ai's chat box obviously you know she
00:03:03
famously was the voice Samantha in the
00:03:05
awesome film her and according to scarjo
00:03:08
Alman told her she could quote bridge
00:03:10
the gap between tech companies and
00:03:13
creatives and help consumers to feel
00:03:15
comfortable with the seismic shift
00:03:17
concerning humans and Ai and that her
00:03:20
voice quote would be comforting to
00:03:23
people although she declined the offer
00:03:24
open AI released a chatot named Sky
00:03:27
which had a similar voice to scarjo
00:03:29
according to scarjo her friends and
00:03:31
family thought the voice was her she
00:03:33
released a statement yada yada on May
00:03:35
13th the day open AI launched chat GPT
00:03:37
40 Omni which we talked about last week
00:03:41
Alman tweeted her a reference to the
00:03:43
film obviously now scarjo is threatening
00:03:46
legal action against openi Alman put out
00:03:48
a statement apologizing and saying the
00:03:51
voice was never intended to resemble
00:03:52
hers his quotee we're sorry to miss Jo
00:03:56
Johansson that we didn't communicate
00:03:58
better open I show Documents To The
00:04:00
Washington Post that confirm the voice
00:04:01
was provided by a different actress who
00:04:03
is anonymous post reporters also spoke
00:04:05
to the unnamed actress's agent who
00:04:08
confirmed the story I guess sax you sent
00:04:11
us a comparison clip maybe we start
00:04:13
there and see what we think yeah do do
00:04:15
you guys think they sound the same I can
00:04:17
understand and generate humanlike text
00:04:20
pretty well it really depends on what
00:04:22
you're looking for in an assistant what
00:04:24
specific tasks when I was like oh
00:04:28
sexuality like like it was like open my
00:04:31
eyes to like some other thing
00:04:35
Samantha they where'd you get that name
00:04:37
from I gave it to myself actually what
00:04:39
do you think I think it sounds pretty
00:04:41
darn similar dead on I mean I don't know
00:04:45
if it's dead on it honestly it sounds
00:04:47
like a digitally altered version of her
00:04:50
voice that's what it sounds like they
00:04:51
didn't get it perfect right got it
00:04:54
0% it sounds
00:04:57
like it was her voice but then they
00:05:00
changed it so either that or they hired
00:05:04
a voice actor who sounds like her and
00:05:05
that's what the company has said is that
00:05:07
they hired a voice actor but they won't
00:05:09
tell us who the voice actor is they said
00:05:11
because of privacy concerns which
00:05:13
doesn't quite make sense to me
00:05:15
because when you hire an actor they want
00:05:18
the credit you know yeah so get more
00:05:21
work the company could just clear this
00:05:22
whole thing up by saying exactly who the
00:05:24
voice actor is and why wouldn't the
00:05:27
voice actor want
00:05:28
that you know she doesn't
00:05:33
exist back to she was the General open
00:05:38
AI wait they made this actress
00:05:41
up I mean she doesn't exist of course
00:05:44
it's a digitally altered version of
00:05:46
scarjo and they got caught Okay cookie
00:05:49
jar this is why Sam's call to Scarlet's
00:05:53
agents or her two days before they
00:05:56
launched is such a damning piece of
00:05:58
evidence because it sounds like he's
00:05:59
trying to shut the barn door on
00:06:02
something they've already done right
00:06:03
they've got this demo ready they're
00:06:05
going to launch it in two days they're
00:06:07
realizing maybe they don't have the
00:06:09
rights to use her voice so you have to
00:06:12
contact her to get those rights but
00:06:15
anyone who knows anything about
00:06:16
Hollywood knows you're not going to be
00:06:17
able to make a deal with a major star to
00:06:19
use their name and likeness in two days
00:06:21
it's
00:06:22
impossible so this seems like a really
00:06:24
crazy thing to do I mean I think the
00:06:26
mere fact that he contacted them and
00:06:29
then tweet twed out her which shows that
00:06:31
Scarlet was on the brain those are
00:06:34
really damning pieces of evidence I
00:06:35
think in this lawsuit and it I think
00:06:37
it's going to feed into our case I think
00:06:39
look here's the thing this company is
00:06:41
going to go down in the history books in
00:06:44
one part because the technical
00:06:46
inventions that they've created are just
00:06:49
next level and frankly created an entire
00:06:51
industry and I think they deserve a ton
00:06:53
of credit for that but they're also
00:06:55
going to be written in the history books
00:06:57
for two other things that are probably
00:06:59
less
00:07:02
aspirational I think the first is that
00:07:05
there's just all kinds of dust ups and
00:07:08
unnecessary drama that just seem to kick
00:07:10
around every few weeks or months and
00:07:13
then the second is the sheer Quantum of
00:07:15
value capture that the employees have
00:07:18
seen through secondaries before a fully
00:07:22
functional business has been really
00:07:24
created and so I think it explains why
00:07:27
folks circle the wagons consistently
00:07:29
it's a very I think it's a very rational
00:07:30
organization they're technically ahead
00:07:32
of everybody else a lot of people want
00:07:35
to put in money at you know Crazy Prices
00:07:38
a bunch of that value is transferred
00:07:40
immediately to the employees who circle
00:07:43
the wagons and do what's necessary to
00:07:45
keep the Taps flowing and I think that
00:07:47
that explains the whole thing and and I
00:07:49
think that that explains many Silicon
00:07:51
Valley companies quite honestly cirle
00:07:53
the wagons defend the company sell your
00:07:55
shares in secondary at 90 billion to
00:07:58
thrive or whoever what would your take
00:08:00
freedberg on all of this craziness and
00:08:02
drama I think what we will see over time
00:08:05
is that rather then have the ability to
00:08:09
sue for their
00:08:12
likeness a lot of AI that is like a
00:08:17
celebrity the value of it will arise
00:08:19
from the celebrity's endorsement not
00:08:21
actually using the
00:08:23
celebrities features so without the
00:08:26
endorsement I know everyone kind of
00:08:27
wants to point to this idea of likeness
00:08:29
but I think that there's something about
00:08:30
the authentic aspect of having the
00:08:32
celebrity actually endorse and provide
00:08:35
their their signature their stamp on it
00:08:37
restaurants are a good example some
00:08:39
celebrity chef says I was involved in
00:08:41
making this menu that's a lot different
00:08:42
than mimicking the celebrity Chef's menu
00:08:45
from his restaurant putting his or her
00:08:47
name and brand on it there's a bunch of
00:08:48
videos on YouTube now I don't know if
00:08:50
you guys ever you guys probably don't
00:08:51
watch these but I love watching these
00:08:53
videos where like music producers make
00:08:54
tracks and how they do it and so many of
00:08:57
these producers now are using AI tools
00:08:59
tools taking samples off of old records
00:09:02
or other tracks and then telling the AI
00:09:04
make something that sounds like this or
00:09:06
looks like this but isn't like this and
00:09:08
so there's enough of a transformation
00:09:10
happening that it isn't a direct
00:09:12
likeness and then they're able to create
00:09:14
entire vocal tracks without needing a
00:09:15
singer or without needing the celebrity
00:09:17
singer so you're in the you're in the
00:09:19
much ad do about nothing camp on this
00:09:21
scard yeah I'm in I'm in the like like
00:09:23
the content itself I think is probably
00:09:25
less like compelling oh go go after her
00:09:28
because the voice sound the
00:09:30
but I do think that there's this element
00:09:31
of like what if you could then say Hey
00:09:33
you know Britney Spears actually lent
00:09:36
her voice to this track so do you think
00:09:38
she if she sues open a ey do you think
00:09:40
it should just get thrown out it's not a
00:09:41
real case no I think there's probably
00:09:43
gonna be a lot of Discovery to sax this
00:09:45
point that's going to show that they
00:09:46
probably
00:09:47
did juicy no no no I'm not I'm not
00:09:50
saying that I'm saying I'm asking you
00:09:51
more that yeah even if they find it your
00:09:53
point is it shouldn't matter my point is
00:09:55
do you think that it should be thrown up
00:09:57
well I don't know I mean hold on let's
00:09:58
say you're a movie and you know you
00:10:01
can't get Scarlet jansson for it and so
00:10:02
you tell the casting director get me a
00:10:03
Scarlet jansson type I think you can do
00:10:05
that okay obviously you can't you can't
00:10:07
use her name you can't use her likeness
00:10:09
but you could hire a different actor who
00:10:12
might look or sound like Scarlet jansson
00:10:14
if the company actually did that and
00:10:17
they did it nine months ago this is what
00:10:18
the statement they put out I think
00:10:20
they've got a decent defense yeah but
00:10:23
because they may I don't know if we
00:10:25
believe that I mean again why why don't
00:10:28
you just put out the name of the actual
00:10:30
actor that voice actor that you used and
00:10:32
there's a very simple test here if the
00:10:34
person if there's confusion amongst the
00:10:37
public which is what scarjo put in her
00:10:39
letter and that was a legally written
00:10:41
deafly written letter to set up a huge
00:10:44
settlement because she said the morning
00:10:46
this came out all of my friends said oh
00:10:48
my God congratulations on your chaty
00:10:51
pale this is great the public being
00:10:54
confused is the key issue here and
00:10:56
there's something called the right to
00:10:57
publicity this is basically how celebr
00:10:59
defend their rights it's happening all
00:11:01
the time to podcasters by the way there
00:11:03
was a company that put me in their ads
00:11:04
based on something I said in a show and
00:11:06
then they put ads against it and
00:11:08
huberman's been having this happen Joe
00:11:10
Rog it's happening to me right now I I'm
00:11:12
in the middle of this crazy thing with
00:11:15
Facebook and they've been doing a very
00:11:16
good job the team of meta Ashley thank
00:11:18
you but hundreds and hundreds and
00:11:20
hundreds of automated accounts
00:11:22
pretending to be me selling all kinds of
00:11:24
random stuff it's predominantly on
00:11:26
WhatsApp and Facebook and meta and I
00:11:28
don't what to do because I we work
00:11:31
together with them we shut it down I've
00:11:33
actually had to reactivate my Facebook
00:11:35
and Instagram accounts which were
00:11:37
dormant so that we could actually have
00:11:39
them be verified so that then it's
00:11:41
easier to shut them down but it is an
00:11:43
impossible task when somebody's
00:11:45
impersonating you yeah to fight it at
00:11:48
least in my experience it's been a month
00:11:50
and we it's just like every hundred we
00:11:51
take down another thousand both in both
00:11:54
of those cases you guys have your exact
00:11:56
image of you being shown to sell to sell
00:11:59
stuff I think that in this Cas it's also
00:12:01
unique to scarjo because she was the
00:12:03
voice from her there is no like if this
00:12:06
were like a voice sort of like Cameron
00:12:07
Diaz or sort of like Julia Roberts it
00:12:09
wouldn't be as big a deal because it
00:12:11
would certainly got some differences to
00:12:13
it but it's because they're trying to
00:12:14
mimic the movie her well didn't didn't
00:12:16
meta use Morgan Freeman when like Zuck
00:12:19
created like an AI or something as a
00:12:21
project do you guys remember that wasn't
00:12:22
Morgan Freeman The Voice they paid for
00:12:23
it and uh there's a company speechify
00:12:26
I'm not an investor or anything like
00:12:27
that but they have gwenneth paltro as a
00:12:29
licensed voice to read your stuff so
00:12:32
they should just they should just
00:12:33
license Gwyn voice obvious obvious like
00:12:36
just whoever wants to get paid here's
00:12:39
the opportunity if three people say no
00:12:41
think about the fact that they're not
00:12:42
trying to say this is this person's
00:12:44
voice but they want to say like hey
00:12:46
let's say you just can prompt the AI and
00:12:48
say generate a voice that is sort of
00:12:50
like movies that are comfortable and
00:12:52
calming to people to listen to and you
00:12:55
know that that we've that that we think
00:12:57
people will be comfortable and the AI
00:12:58
generates something that's sounds like
00:13:00
said this before but it's not
00:13:01
deliberately trained on scar using a
00:13:03
computer to probabilistically copy
00:13:05
something is still copying something yes
00:13:07
come on guys let's not make this too
00:13:08
complicated is the public confused is
00:13:10
the only test you need for you what if
00:13:11
there's two public actresses that both
00:13:14
have similar voices and then they both
00:13:15
claim hey you tried to make this sound
00:13:17
like me what do you do in that case
00:13:18
Jamal well which one did you call two
00:13:20
days before the demo yeah exactly and
00:13:22
did the CEO tweet her I think your whole
00:13:24
point about Discovery is what is going
00:13:26
to get them in trouble in this case
00:13:27
because they were clearly they were
00:13:29
clearly trying to do an impersonation of
00:13:31
her right yeah if they never reached out
00:13:33
to Scarlet they could claim it's just a
00:13:36
coincidence but they called her twice
00:13:39
they called her some months before and
00:13:40
then two days before which indicates
00:13:43
Panic judge Sachs give your verdict I'm
00:13:45
starting a new spinoff show judge sa
00:13:47
says guilty
00:13:50
okay judge sa sentence now what's the
00:13:54
sentence the sentence is that Scarlett
00:13:56
Janson is going to end up owning more of
00:13:57
this company than Sam Alman
00:14:00
that's what to
00:14:03
happen look they call they call her two
00:14:06
days before why do you do that guilty
00:14:08
because you know you have a problem and
00:14:10
you're trying to put the horse back in
00:14:11
the bar now what they should have done
00:14:14
is as soon as she says no you just
00:14:16
change the voice completely or you get a
00:14:18
fixer get Michael Cohen in there and get
00:14:20
a settlement going get let's let's get
00:14:22
some uh fixer in there to fix it uh okay
00:14:24
listen enough with open AI oh wait
00:14:27
there's more Dr geez it's ruining the
00:14:30
docket I guess we have to talk about the
00:14:33
next drama from a open AI this week
00:14:37
former employees sign an agreement that
00:14:40
they're forbidden forever from
00:14:42
criticizing the company or even
00:14:43
acknowledging that the NDA exists if a
00:14:46
departing employee declines to sign the
00:14:47
document or if they violate it they can
00:14:49
lose all vested Equity they earn during
00:14:52
their time at the company in practice uh
00:14:55
this means ex employees have to choose
00:14:56
between giving up millions of dollars
00:14:58
they've already earned or agreeing not
00:14:59
to criticize the company in
00:15:03
perpetuity a lot of details here we'll
00:15:06
go to you yeah well you can see why they
00:15:07
wrote that in there that makes sense if
00:15:09
you think hold on a second if an
00:15:10
employee can leave with you know a
00:15:14
random copy of like some old weights as
00:15:16
a starting point to rebuild the model
00:15:18
that could be very valuable or there's
00:15:22
yeah yeah but well there's all kinds of
00:15:23
like kind of Quasi confidential
00:15:26
information or knowledge or knowhow that
00:15:29
you leave a place like that with so I
00:15:32
could see why there was a justification
00:15:35
to be very heavy-handed about it but
00:15:39
again the question isn't whether you're
00:15:41
allowed to be heavy-handed you are the
00:15:43
question is why backtrack and then offis
00:15:45
skade and lie after you get caught right
00:15:48
what what do they say they claim it's an
00:15:50
accident once they get caught with their
00:15:52
hand in the cookie jar which like you
00:15:54
set your mouth is just a heavy-handed
00:15:55
agreement it's in the company's interest
00:15:57
to do this yeah they just say was an
00:15:59
accident just like the Scarlet thing is
00:16:00
an accident or a coincidence it's just
00:16:02
getting hard to believe just own it and
00:16:04
say you know what guys this is a really
00:16:05
valuable company there's a ton of very
00:16:07
valuable trade secret know-ow IP
00:16:09
confidential information and we're going
00:16:11
to be extremely litigious on the offense
00:16:15
and protect it because our and it's
00:16:17
correlated to the importance of the
00:16:18
company in the ecosystem you could have
00:16:20
said that and people could have been
00:16:21
upset but they would have understood
00:16:23
here's what Sam Alman said there was a
00:16:25
provision about potential Equity
00:16:27
cancellation in our previous exit docs
00:16:29
although we never clawed anything back
00:16:32
it should never have been something we
00:16:34
had in any documents or communication
00:16:36
this is on me and one of the few times
00:16:39
I've
00:16:40
genuinely been embarrassed running open
00:16:43
eye I did not know this was happening
00:16:46
and I should have if any former employee
00:16:48
who signed one of these old agreements
00:16:49
is worried about it they can contact me
00:16:51
and we'll fix that too very sorry about
00:16:53
this so he's very very s sorry it's
00:16:55
starting to be like BP Oil this company
00:16:57
like they're just so sorry about
00:16:59
everything here's the question is these
00:17:02
are form documents at the end of the day
00:17:04
and form documents don't write
00:17:06
themselves lawyers write them and when
00:17:08
you get a novel change in one of these
00:17:10
documents somebody thought that through
00:17:12
and thought it' be a good idea and put
00:17:13
it in there right and like jamas said
00:17:16
there is a way to potentially defend
00:17:18
that it's not like these Provisions
00:17:20
don't exist it's just a novel
00:17:21
application to try and CLA back
00:17:23
someone's already vested Equity from a
00:17:25
company well that is onal of these
00:17:27
things yeah that is not exactly standard
00:17:30
sometimes no that's completely
00:17:31
nonstandard I'm just saying that these
00:17:32
Provisions exist in other context and
00:17:34
their application as it as a clawback of
00:17:37
vested employee Equity is something that
00:17:40
I don't think any of us have heard
00:17:41
before so I haven't yeah yeah exactly so
00:17:44
my point is just this didn't happen as
00:17:46
an accident somebody made a strategic
00:17:48
business decision to do this because
00:17:50
they thought it'd be in the company's
00:17:51
interest yeah so just en lments terms
00:17:53
the clawback means you had 10 million in
00:17:56
equity you earned 75 %'s got 7.5 million
00:18:00
in equity there you say something
00:18:02
disparaging about the
00:18:04
company they can take it back from you
00:18:07
once you leave a company and you vested
00:18:10
Equity you don't lose it I mean as long
00:18:12
as you you have some period in which to
00:18:14
uh exercise your option if it's an
00:18:16
option rather than stock but other than
00:18:18
that I've never heard of a situation
00:18:20
where employees can lose their vested
00:18:22
Equity even in a situation sax we've
00:18:25
seen this where somebody commits
00:18:27
fraud they still get their equity and
00:18:29
then it's up to the company to sue them
00:18:31
for fraud separately right like we've
00:18:32
seen of that I mean I guess that's right
00:18:35
like committing a crime look I think the
00:18:38
question here is is it credible that
00:18:41
they keep having these accidents and
00:18:43
coincidences what does Judge sack
00:18:46
say judge sack says there's one too many
00:18:50
coincidences you know look I think like
00:18:53
jamas said you could have just owned
00:18:54
this and said yeah that this is a
00:18:57
defended in the way he said and said but
00:18:58
you know what was too aggressive and we
00:18:59
pulled it back I think the thing is look
00:19:01
if you if you think about the pendulum
00:19:03
of culture in Silicon Valley we used to
00:19:08
have a very tough culture of founder-led
00:19:11
businesses where there was extremely
00:19:13
high expectations and if you
00:19:17
transgressed it was very punitive and
00:19:19
then the pendulum swung in the all the
00:19:22
way to the other opposite end where you
00:19:23
had this like codling daycare type
00:19:26
approach that existed for like the last
00:19:28
15 or 20 years and probably what open AI
00:19:31
is is an example of a company that needs
00:19:33
to be run a little bit more like the
00:19:35
former but stuck with a bunch of people
00:19:38
that still pull it towards to be the
00:19:40
ladder and that's the cultural tension
00:19:42
that they're going to have to sort out
00:19:44
because in order to be this incredible
00:19:46
Bastion of like AGI and Innovation I
00:19:49
suspect that it's going to look more
00:19:51
like a three-letter agency in terms of
00:19:53
security and protocols in the next 5 or
00:19:55
10 years than it is going to look like
00:19:57
the Google Plex and I think they just
00:19:59
need to own that and this is probably a
00:20:01
little bit of an insight into that
00:20:03
tension and they're going to have to go
00:20:05
in more in that direction I think it's a
00:20:06
good insight you're not going to be
00:20:07
allowed to build these incredibly crazy
00:20:10
world beating Technologies where people
00:20:12
are running around in an eight-seater
00:20:14
bicycle just not going to work guys and
00:20:16
and by the way I mean because it is such
00:20:18
an industry-leading company I think we
00:20:20
could end up with some very bad fair use
00:20:22
precedents or laws because Scarlett
00:20:25
duranon is so sympathetic as a plan if
00:20:29
compared to open
00:20:31
Ai and it's you know unless they show us
00:20:34
some discovery that proves that they
00:20:37
really did hire the voice actor and all
00:20:38
the rest of it I mean this could lead to
00:20:40
some very bad precedents for the
00:20:42
industry around fair use well and here
00:20:44
we go I think the Microsoft will pay the
00:20:46
speeding ticket and we'll just all move
00:20:48
on but freeberg my God can you imagine
00:20:50
like being two or three phds and you
00:20:54
know machine learning or whatever you
00:20:56
study your whole life you're pursuing
00:20:58
General Ai and like people are coming up
00:21:00
to your desk and creating all this drama
00:21:01
and nonsense and you're in the middle of
00:21:03
a soap opera while you're trying to
00:21:05
create the technology that creates super
00:21:07
intelligence it's
00:21:08
nuts yeah I find it annoying too just
00:21:11
listening to it okay well then in that
00:21:13
case we will move on from open AI up
00:21:17
sorry there's one more drama going on
00:21:19
it's not just drama I mean it's there's
00:21:22
now a lawsuit I think I think it's a
00:21:23
very interesting case the fair use case
00:21:25
is interesting for sure I think it's a
00:21:26
legitimately interesting case that's
00:21:29
if it goes all the way it's if it goes
00:21:31
the distance it's going to create some
00:21:33
really interesting precedents well I
00:21:34
mean you I'm
00:21:36
say yeah these the what happens in these
00:21:38
content cases is they get settled almost
00:21:41
every single time so the case law
00:21:43
doesn't get cified they just get settled
00:21:45
out of court if you go look at all the
00:21:47
fair use cases they they almost never go
00:21:50
to the mat and so this one will just be
00:21:51
settled it'll just be a question think I
00:21:53
think the other the interesting part of
00:21:56
the other story is that the reason all
00:21:57
this stuff came out about the equity
00:21:59
Club acts was because the safety team
00:22:01
quit and it got leaked during that
00:22:02
process so this is the third dramatic
00:22:04
story of the week that we that one I
00:22:07
think begs a little bit more of a so let
00:22:09
me question yeah two heads of open AI
00:22:13
super alignment team left the company
00:22:16
last week the day after GPT 40 launched
00:22:21
Ilia announced he was leaving the
00:22:22
company he was their Chief scientist a
00:22:24
few hours later his partner on the
00:22:26
alignment team uh Yan Leica also
00:22:29
announced he was resigning in a later
00:22:32
thread Leica explained that he left due
00:22:34
to quote safety culture and processes
00:22:38
have taken a backseat to shiny products
00:22:41
okay there's a little bit of
00:22:42
disparagement uh to our former point
00:22:44
about non- disparages n and ndas so a
00:22:49
open AI lost both its heads of AI
00:22:52
alignment one day after it launched that
00:22:55
new product is that a coincidence that's
00:22:57
interesting
00:22:58
if you don't know what super alignment
00:23:00
is it's
00:23:01
basically making sure that the software
00:23:04
doesn't go Terminator what are your
00:23:06
thoughts on this
00:23:08
freedberg I don't know I mean it could
00:23:10
be some bad bureaucracy bad politicking
00:23:14
not being listened to but I think the
00:23:16
real interesting
00:23:18
question is who's G to ask these
00:23:22
guys what's really going on from a
00:23:25
technology perspective and what is that
00:23:27
going to reveal because these clearly
00:23:29
are on the frontier of model development
00:23:32
and the performance of models and so my
00:23:35
guess is there are certain regulatory
00:23:38
people who are going to have interest in
00:23:39
the fact that this team just left
00:23:41
they're going to make a phone call
00:23:42
they're going to ask this team to come
00:23:43
in and have a conversation and they're
00:23:44
going to start to ask a lot of questions
00:23:46
about what the state of technology is
00:23:48
over there and I I suspect that some
00:23:50
things are going to start to come
00:23:51
out saaks it it was reported that Ilia
00:23:55
was on the side of the
00:23:58
nonprofit e slow down AI be cautious
00:24:02
group when they fired Sam so what's your
00:24:05
take on what's going on here with super
00:24:08
alignment inside of open AI judge sax
00:24:11
let's let's call this what it is a mass
00:24:13
resignation and we don't really know why
00:24:16
I mean apparently they were promised
00:24:17
something like 20% of the Computing
00:24:19
resources of open Ai and they didn't get
00:24:22
that I definitely read that
00:24:24
somewhere and so that is part of it I
00:24:28
think but we don't really know the whole
00:24:29
story and you know when you look at this
00:24:33
issue of the mass resignation and then
00:24:35
you look at the issue of the
00:24:37
clawback of vested employee Equity
00:24:40
you're like well wait a second maybe
00:24:42
they felt like they needed that claw
00:24:44
back in order to deter all these people
00:24:46
who are leaving from spilling the beans
00:24:49
about right whatever was upsetting them
00:24:51
something clearly upset them right yeah
00:24:53
that's why people are saying there's
00:24:55
this meme what did ilas see what did he
00:24:56
see yeah and then like you said the
00:24:58
board did fire him and the only
00:25:00
explanation they provided was that he
00:25:02
wasn't being candid which at the time we
00:25:05
thought was an incredibly damning
00:25:07
statement and we thought we'd get some
00:25:09
explanation of it we never got any
00:25:10
explanation whatsoever you know I
00:25:12
thought that the board was being
00:25:14
incompetent because I thought that
00:25:16
either they fired him overly hastily or
00:25:18
they had reason to fire him but then
00:25:20
they communicated poorly and you know it
00:25:24
you add all these things up and it
00:25:25
definitely seems like smoke Sam's a
00:25:28
shooter we should just have him on the
00:25:29
Pod to explain
00:25:32
what I me'll clear everything up stop me
00:25:35
if you heard this before Nvidia Nvidia
00:25:37
just smashed all expectations while
00:25:39
reporting record profits and revenue the
00:25:41
AI train continues on Wednesday Nidia
00:25:44
reported earnings for the fiscal q1
00:25:47
Revenue was 26 billion up 18% quarter a
00:25:50
quarter 260% year over year basically
00:25:53
they
00:25:54
quadrupled year-over year on billions of
00:25:56
Revenue this chart is Bonkers we've
00:25:59
never seen anything like this in the
00:26:00
history of Silicon Valley or Corporate
00:26:03
America this is if somebody like
00:26:05
literally was mining coal and then found
00:26:08
a diamond and gold mined underneath it
00:26:10
it's Bonkers what's happened here when
00:26:13
you look at the revenue there the you
00:26:14
know sort of slow growth or moderate
00:26:17
growth Revenue that they experienced
00:26:20
that was all because Nvidia was
00:26:21
primarily providing gpus for people
00:26:25
playing video games or mining crypto and
00:26:27
then what you see with this
00:26:28
unbelievable six quarter run uh and five
00:26:31
six quarter run is companies like
00:26:34
Microsoft Google Tesla open AI Etc
00:26:38
buying just billions and billions of
00:26:40
dollars worth of
00:26:43
Hardware I'll end on this and chathan
00:26:45
get your take on it here's 2019 top
00:26:49
companies by market cap in the world
00:26:52
obviously Microsoft Apple Amazon Google
00:26:54
Burkshire Facebook Alibaba 10cent and
00:26:57
then you get some of the you know
00:26:59
incumbents and Legacy companies J&J
00:27:01
Exxon and JP Morgan Visa way down on the
00:27:05
list in 2019 number 84 was Nvidia today
00:27:09
Nvidia is the third largest company by
00:27:11
market cap behind Microsoft and Apple
00:27:13
and ahead of Google AKA alphabet and
00:27:17
Saudi aramco shth what's your take on
00:27:21
this will it
00:27:22
continue and how do you conceptualize
00:27:26
this level of growth on such a big
00:27:29
number I mean I think it's a really
00:27:31
really incredibly fun moment if you're
00:27:35
inolved in anything AI related just
00:27:38
because it shows the level of investment
00:27:40
that invidious customers are making into
00:27:43
making
00:27:45
this new reality available for everybody
00:27:49
right so when you're spending
00:27:51
effectively a 100 billion dollars a year
00:27:53
on the capex of chips and then a couple
00:27:55
hundred billion more on all the related
00:27:57
infrastructure
00:27:58
and then another couple hundred billion
00:28:00
more on power you're talking about half
00:28:03
a trillion to 3 of a trilon dollars a
00:28:06
year being spent to bring AI forward to
00:28:09
the masses so I think that's the really
00:28:11
positive take the other exciting thing
00:28:14
is if you're on the other side of the
00:28:16
Nvidia trade which is you're working on
00:28:19
something that does what they do cheaper
00:28:23
faster or better it's also really
00:28:25
exciting because at some point the laws
00:28:27
of capital kick in right we've talked
00:28:29
about this when you are over earning so
00:28:32
massively the rational thing to do for
00:28:34
other actors in the arena is to come and
00:28:36
attack that margin and give it to people
00:28:40
for slightly cheaper slightly faster
00:28:42
slightly better so you can take share
00:28:44
yes so I think what you're seeing and
00:28:46
what you'll see even more now is this
00:28:48
incentive for Silicon Valley who has
00:28:50
been really reticent to put money into
00:28:52
chips really reticent to put money into
00:28:55
Hardware they're going to get pulled
00:28:57
into investing this space because
00:28:58
there's no choice you you have a company
00:29:01
that went from 100 billion in market cap
00:29:03
to 25 trillion in four years it's just
00:29:07
way too much value that that is there to
00:29:10
then be leaked back you know the
00:29:11
interesting thing to remember during the
00:29:14
PC Revolution which is really mostly the
00:29:15
90s right it ended in the late 90s I
00:29:18
would say like 98 99 right before the
00:29:20
Doom bubble took over Intel's Peak
00:29:22
market cap was I think it got to about
00:29:24
$200
00:29:26
billion and then there average growth
00:29:29
rate from
00:29:30
1998 to today was negative 1.4% a year
00:29:34
right so it went from about 200 billion
00:29:36
to about 130 odd billion and why it's
00:29:40
not that intel was a worse company but
00:29:43
it's that everything else caught up and
00:29:45
the economic value went to things that
00:29:48
sat above them in the stack then it went
00:29:50
to Cisco for a while right then after
00:29:52
Cisco it went to the browser companies
00:29:55
for a little bit then it went to the app
00:29:56
companies then it went to the device
00:29:58
companies then it went to the mobile
00:29:59
companies so you see this natural
00:30:02
tendency for Value to push up the stack
00:30:05
over time so let me ask we've done step
00:30:08
one which is now you've given all this
00:30:10
value to in to Nvidia and now we're
00:30:12
going to see it being reallocated so
00:30:14
jamath who's in the arena trying stuff
00:30:16
some of these things working not working
00:30:19
yeah so right now what you do is you
00:30:22
speculatively bet on anything that kind
00:30:24
of like quote unquote rhymes with Nvidia
00:30:26
so AMD is ripping the companies that
00:30:30
make HPM is ripping so all of that stuff
00:30:34
the folks that make optical cables this
00:30:36
Japanese company that I found that makes
00:30:38
like the high bandwidth optical cables
00:30:40
ripping so every anything related to
00:30:43
that ecosystem right now is at all-time
00:30:46
Highs but at the same time what you find
00:30:49
now is like every other day when you
00:30:51
wake up and read the the trades in
00:30:54
techland you find that there's a company
00:30:56
that's gotten seated with to 50 million
00:30:58
bucks to create a new chip right you're
00:31:01
also starting to see folks that are
00:31:02
working a little bit above the stock and
00:31:04
build better
00:31:05
compilers right things that'll allow you
00:31:08
to actually build once run in many
00:31:11
different compute environments so all of
00:31:14
this stuff is starting to happen at some
00:31:17
point the spread trade will be that
00:31:18
Nvidia loses share even though revenues
00:31:22
keep compounding to these ups yeah death
00:31:25
by a thousand startups all right SX I
00:31:27
guess
00:31:28
one of the questions people are asking
00:31:30
right now is have we ever seen a company
00:31:33
at this scale and the impact it's having
00:31:35
not just in technology which shth just
00:31:37
pointed out beautifully but also it's
00:31:39
having a huge impact on Wall Street on
00:31:41
the stock market on
00:31:43
finance well the the company that
00:31:47
everyone Compares Nvidia to or asks the
00:31:50
question about whether a historical
00:31:52
comparison should be made is Cisco so
00:31:55
there's an article in modle fool saying
00:31:57
is Nvidia doing to be the next Cisco
00:31:59
there was one in morning star called
00:32:02
Nvidia 2023 versus Cisco 1999 will
00:32:05
history repeat itself the reason they're
00:32:07
asking these questions is that if you go
00:32:09
back to the doom boom in 1999 can pull
00:32:14
up the stock performance chart you can
00:32:16
see that Cisco had this incredible
00:32:18
run and if you overlay the stock price
00:32:23
of Nvidia it seems to be following that
00:32:25
same trajectory and what happened with
00:32:27
Cisco is that when the crash came in
00:32:29
2000 Cisco stock lost a huge part of its
00:32:31
value obviously Cisco is still around
00:32:33
today and it's a valuable company but it
00:32:35
just hasn't ever regained the type of
00:32:37
market cap it had the reason this
00:32:39
happened is because Cisco got
00:32:40
commoditized so to Chamas point the
00:32:43
success and market cap of that company
00:32:44
attracted a whole bunch of new entrance
00:32:46
and they copied Cisco's products until
00:32:48
they were total Commodities so the
00:32:51
question is well that happened to Nvidia
00:32:53
yeah and I think the difference here is
00:32:56
that at the end of the day Network
00:32:58
equipment which Cisco produced was
00:33:00
pretty easy pretty onedimensional pretty
00:33:02
yeah pretty easy to data around yeah
00:33:05
right whereas if you look at Nvidia it's
00:33:07
the these uh GPU cores are really
00:33:10
complicated to make and Jensen makes
00:33:12
this point that the h100 for example has
00:33:16
thousands of components and it weighs
00:33:18
like 70 pounds or something like that I
00:33:20
mean like a giant oven I mean it's like
00:33:22
a main frame it's not it's not just like
00:33:24
a little chip so it's a much more
00:33:26
complicated product to copy and then on
00:33:28
top of that they're already in the R&D
00:33:31
cycle for the next chip right whatever
00:33:33
it's going to be the h200 or whatever it
00:33:34
is and so as people try to catch up with
00:33:38
h100 they're going to be on to h200 so I
00:33:41
think you can make the case that Nvidia
00:33:43
has a much better moat than Cisco and
00:33:46
just by the way on this Cisco comparison
00:33:48
just to just finish the thought people
00:33:50
were making this comparison six months
00:33:52
ago and what's happened since then
00:33:54
nvidia's had two blowout quarters and
00:33:56
the competitors don't seem to be that
00:33:57
closer maybe a little bit closer but so
00:34:01
you know look I think it's an open
00:34:03
question so there's a counter here
00:34:04
freeberg which is obviously if you
00:34:07
follow the Cisco analogy one of the
00:34:09
things that also sunk Cisco was once
00:34:12
people had bought all that capacity
00:34:13
there was no need there was no file size
00:34:17
that was so great that it couldn't be
00:34:18
moved easily around the internet you
00:34:20
know you make movies HD Super HD 2K 4K
00:34:25
the B we've created too much bandwidth
00:34:27
there was no use for it so I guess that
00:34:29
that's a counterargument for maybe when
00:34:32
if we build up too much capacity Nvidia
00:34:34
also could not by competitors but just
00:34:36
by the buildout being enough so what's
00:34:38
your take on that counterargument and
00:34:40
then whatever other thought you have I
00:34:41
think that the Cisco analogy it's a
00:34:44
pretty different situation because Cisco
00:34:46
evolved the business to become much more
00:34:47
Enterprise Centric and they were able to
00:34:51
to run an m&a process like we see with
00:34:53
Enterprise software where they could
00:34:55
acquire and roll up lots of different
00:34:58
product companies and sell into their
00:35:00
Enterprise channel so do a lot of cross-
00:35:01
selling Nvidia is not a super
00:35:04
acquisitive business and it doesn't make
00:35:06
as much sense because they're selling
00:35:07
much more kind of infrastructure tools
00:35:09
whereas Cisco moved really high up in
00:35:11
the in the Enterprise stack they were
00:35:13
selling stuff into Office Buildings they
00:35:15
were selling software they did
00:35:17
Acquisitions to kind of fully integrate
00:35:19
they had a very diverse set of products
00:35:21
that were selling through an Enterprise
00:35:22
Channel further up the value stack and a
00:35:25
pretty distributed customer base no no
00:35:27
serious concentration even though they
00:35:29
did sell a lot into Data Centers they
00:35:30
were also selling to Telos they were
00:35:32
selling to Enterprises they were selling
00:35:34
to governments and so on if you look at
00:35:35
nvidia's Revenue they did $26 billion of
00:35:37
total revenue in the quarter 22 billion
00:35:39
of which was Data Center and about 40%
00:35:42
of that was from the top four
00:35:45
hyperscalers so a full one-third of
00:35:47
nvidia's Revenue in the quarter came
00:35:50
from I believe it's Google Amazon
00:35:52
Microsoft and meta and so between those
00:35:55
four businesses you know that those
00:35:57
companies each have I believe at least
00:36:00
over or close to hundred billion dollar
00:36:02
of cash sitting on their balance sheet
00:36:05
they can't find great places to invest
00:36:06
that cash to grow revenue and so they've
00:36:09
rationalized away the idea that they
00:36:10
will make capex investments to build
00:36:12
over the next 5 to 10 years and this is
00:36:14
where that money flows yeah we talked
00:36:15
about that in a previous episode because
00:36:17
there's no m&a to your Point's not gonna
00:36:19
let you buy stuff or the UK is not gonna
00:36:21
let you buy stuff so I think that
00:36:22
they're going to have less maneuvering
00:36:24
capability than Cisco had in the future
00:36:27
and obvously there's this deep
00:36:28
concentration risk which is going to be
00:36:30
deeply challenging I think Nvidia this
00:36:32
is to build on Sox's point is going to
00:36:35
get pulled into competing directly with
00:36:36
the hyperscalers so if you were just
00:36:39
selling chips you probably wouldn't but
00:36:42
sax is right like these are these big
00:36:45
bulky actual machines then all of a
00:36:48
sudden you're like well why don't I just
00:36:49
create my own physical plant and just
00:36:51
stack these things and create racks and
00:36:54
racks of these machines and goe to AWS
00:36:56
instead of selling to them it's not a
00:36:58
far stretch especially because Nvidia
00:37:00
actually
00:37:02
has the software interface that
00:37:03
everybody uses which is Cuda so I think
00:37:06
it's it's likely that Nvidia goes on a
00:37:08
full frontal assault against gcp and
00:37:11
Amazon and Microsoft that's going to
00:37:13
really complicate the relationship that
00:37:16
those folks have with each other but I
00:37:18
think it's inevitable because you're get
00:37:19
how do you defend it's kind of the Apple
00:37:22
problem how do you defend an enormously
00:37:25
large market cap you're forced to go
00:37:27
into to businesses that are equally
00:37:29
lucrative now if I look inside of
00:37:31
compute and look at the adjacent
00:37:34
categories they're not going to all of a
00:37:35
sudden start a competitor to Tik Tok
00:37:37
right or a social network but if you
00:37:40
look at the multi hundred billion
00:37:41
Revenue businesses that are adjacent to
00:37:43
the markets that Nvidia enables the most
00:37:46
obvious one is the hyperscalers which
00:37:47
are multi hundred billion dollar Revenue
00:37:49
businesses so they're going to be forced
00:37:52
to compete otherwise their market cap
00:37:54
will shrink and I don't think they want
00:37:57
that and then it's going to create a
00:37:58
very complicated set of incentives for
00:38:00
Microsoft and Google and
00:38:03
meta and apple and all the rest and
00:38:05
that's also then going to be an
00:38:07
accelerant they're going to pump so much
00:38:08
money to help all of these upstarts to
00:38:11
your point Jason chip away and nip at
00:38:14
the the Achilles heels of Nvidia until
00:38:17
they fall yeah and there's a great uh
00:38:20
precedent for what you're saying because
00:38:21
or Clues Amazon is making chips Google
00:38:24
is making chips and in
00:38:27
Tesla's making chips chip everybody's
00:38:30
makes their own chips and they got rid
00:38:31
of Intel and so this is how it's going
00:38:34
to go your margin is my
00:38:36
opportunity uh and you know with all
00:38:38
this market cap increase the good news
00:38:39
is uh it's just reported that Jensen has
00:38:42
bought a second leather jacket so well
00:38:44
this market cap has enabled him to
00:38:47
expand the work bit way I gotta say he
00:38:48
looks really good he looks super fit you
00:38:50
know he a
00:38:52
picture is he is he in his late 50s he's
00:38:54
going into his Harrison Ford he looks he
00:38:56
look great the salt and pepper 61
00:39:01
61 he looks amazing he looks amazing
00:39:04
I'll tell you something in the zombie
00:39:05
apocalypse draft I'm picking him that
00:39:07
guy seems crafty you
00:39:09
know what do you think he does for
00:39:11
exercise no plastic ball plastic ball no
00:39:15
no no his balls have plastic steal in
00:39:18
there no no he's got his have brass in
00:39:21
literally hadass put into his balls no
00:39:23
all of our balls have plastic apparently
00:39:26
okay well we have two choices here we
00:39:28
can go with another tech story or we can
00:39:31
go directly to science corner and well
00:39:32
no I think we do state of the economy
00:39:34
and then do science Corner okay so you
00:39:36
want to talk about our pocketbooks and
00:39:37
then we'll talk about our pockets and
00:39:39
then we'll just make a quick detour to
00:39:41
the right and then talk about our balls
00:39:42
we're in the same vicinity so I think we
00:39:44
should end on our balls okay great let's
00:39:47
let's end with our
00:39:48
balls likes to start with the balls I
00:39:50
don't know everybody's got different
00:39:53
kind of Vibes here the ball play should
00:39:55
come a little bit later in the in the
00:39:57
progr you want to save the ball play for
00:39:59
lighter
00:40:01
sax I'm having a hard time keeping this
00:40:04
together guys more than half of
00:40:07
Americans think we're in a recession I
00:40:09
think we're in a Vibe session right now
00:40:11
because we're not in a recession but
00:40:13
people are feeling really bad a Harris
00:40:16
poll conducted by the guardian shows
00:40:18
that 5 56% of Americans wrongly believe
00:40:22
the US is in a recession not
00:40:24
surprisingly they blame Biden the poll
00:40:26
highlighted a bunch of misconceptions
00:40:29
55% believe the US economy is shrinking
00:40:31
it's obviously not 56% think the US is
00:40:34
experiencing recession it's obviously
00:40:36
not 49% of be above believe the S&P 500
00:40:40
stock market index is down for the year
00:40:41
it's up 12% this year it was up 24% in
00:40:44
2023 and 49% believe that unemployment
00:40:48
is at a 50-year high when it's in fact
00:40:50
at a 50-year
00:40:51
low and Americans are really concerned
00:40:54
about the cost of living in inflation
00:40:56
fair enough 70% said the biggest
00:40:58
economic concern was the cost of living
00:41:00
68% said that inflation was the biggest
00:41:04
economic concern important quote here a
00:41:07
majority of respondents agreed it's
00:41:08
difficult to be happy about positive
00:41:10
economic news when I feel financially
00:41:12
squeezed each month and that the economy
00:41:14
was worse than the media made it out to
00:41:16
be according to the poll 70% of
00:41:18
Republicans and 40% of Democrats think
00:41:20
Biden is making the economy worse
00:41:23
jamaath you have some thoughts on this
00:41:25
I'm going to go out on a limb speculate
00:41:28
that a lot of
00:41:30
the big numbers that we use to gauge how
00:41:34
we should feel about
00:41:36
things in today's day and age are pretty
00:41:39
brittle okay explain fragile and may may
00:41:44
actually just be totally wrong so what's
00:41:46
an example so for example like if you
00:41:48
look at something like non-farm payrolls
00:41:50
right so the first Friday of every month
00:41:53
you get this report that comes out from
00:41:54
the the Department of Labor and it shows
00:41:57
what where unemployment is but how do
00:41:59
they calculate that do you think that
00:42:01
they have a realtime sense of exactly
00:42:03
every person in that month that entered
00:42:05
the workforce or exit at the workforce
00:42:07
no they do a survey and then they
00:42:09
extrapolate and if you do that survey
00:42:11
incorrectly and Jason you've commented
00:42:13
on this before for example if you don't
00:42:15
capture adequately the number of people
00:42:17
that are on the sidelines and never join
00:42:19
the workforce or the number of people
00:42:20
that are part of the gig economy so they
00:42:22
are kind of working you get an
00:42:24
inaccurate sense of where the real
00:42:26
economy is
00:42:28
I think that GDP is somewhat similar
00:42:30
because if you just break down what GDP
00:42:33
is so Nick there's a very simple pie
00:42:35
chart I sent to you what is GDP it's the
00:42:38
sum of four
00:42:40
things most of it is what people spend
00:42:43
okay then the next big chunk is what
00:42:47
companies and governments spend and then
00:42:50
the last is what we export to other
00:42:53
countries so let's just pause for one
00:42:54
second and think about what do you think
00:42:56
happens when rates are Zero versus when
00:42:58
rates are at 6% people spend a lot more
00:43:01
well people are tend are tend to save
00:43:04
when interest rates are high just look
00:43:06
the natural thing like why would I buy a
00:43:08
pair of these Nike shoes I'll just put
00:43:09
it in the bank I get six% but when the
00:43:12
bank pays you zero you're like ah let me
00:43:14
buy these Air Force Ones and move on
00:43:16
right it turns out it's the same for
00:43:18
companies companies find it easier to
00:43:20
invest when rates are at zero because
00:43:22
it's cheaper it's much more expensive
00:43:24
because they're borrowing money at 6%
00:43:25
versus at 0% or more more corporate gets
00:43:28
charge a higher fee right yeah then when
00:43:30
you have high interest rates you have a
00:43:34
currency that appreciates it makes
00:43:37
exports less attractive to other people
00:43:39
which means then you become a importer
00:43:41
okay so what is the last thing that's
00:43:43
left the last thing that's left is
00:43:44
government spending and you have to ask
00:43:46
the question what should governments do
00:43:49
when rates are
00:43:51
high there was a chart I published in my
00:43:54
annual letter if you just go to that for
00:43:55
a second and just going back to this
00:43:57
chart right before it just so the people
00:43:58
who are listening if you put the pie
00:44:00
chop art Nick important for people to
00:44:02
know consumer is about 70% of the
00:44:04
economy and if you put investment in
00:44:06
government
00:44:07
together that's just over maybe
00:44:10
34% ex% so it is a consumer-driven
00:44:13
economy but hey you know corporate and
00:44:15
government spending is a major piece as
00:44:18
well and then and I just wanted just to
00:44:21
highlight that when interest rates are
00:44:23
very high all of a sudden governments
00:44:26
are faced with this very ult problem
00:44:27
which is oh man I have to spend a ton of
00:44:29
money on interest just like if you had a
00:44:31
bunch of credit cards and all of a
00:44:32
sudden the interest rates went up so the
00:44:35
choice is twofold do governments spend
00:44:39
less but unfortunately it turns out that
00:44:42
our governments in America they just
00:44:44
keep spending more and more so even if
00:44:46
net interest income is small even if net
00:44:48
interest income is high they're just
00:44:50
like forget it the Taps are on so what
00:44:52
does this all mean I think what it
00:44:53
really means is that we do a very poor
00:44:55
job of measuring all these Dynamics
00:44:57
together and so I actually trust the
00:45:02
survey data of these individuals more
00:45:04
than I trust the GDP report in the sense
00:45:07
that I think it more accurately captures
00:45:09
this Dynamic rates are at 6% people are
00:45:12
saving more if they're not getting paid
00:45:14
more things are costing more the
00:45:16
government is giving you free money so
00:45:18
you kind of feel like everything is
00:45:20
moving so that the GDP measurement the
00:45:22
way that it's classically done shows
00:45:24
that wow we grew at three or 4% but the
00:45:27
average individual American isn't
00:45:29
feeling that they're actually feeling
00:45:31
that they have less money so I would
00:45:33
actually go with them and actually say
00:45:36
if we don't revisit this thing from
00:45:38
first principles we're going to get this
00:45:40
Dynamic
00:45:41
where we think one thing is happening
00:45:44
but the actual exact opposite is
00:45:46
happening in this case I do think we're
00:45:47
we're in a quasy synthetic recession SX
00:45:50
what's your take on the vibe session
00:45:54
well look I I tend to agree with jamaath
00:45:56
on this I think this a classic story of
00:45:58
who do you believe do you believe the
00:46:00
experts or do you believe in the
00:46:01
intuitions of the American people and
00:46:05
the experts have some statistics on
00:46:07
their side but you know the old saying
00:46:09
goes there's lies damn lies and
00:46:11
statistics and then the American people
00:46:13
have their actual lived experience on
00:46:16
their side they know what they're
00:46:18
feeling and I tend to trust in that and
00:46:20
obviously we're in an election year and
00:46:22
the Press knows that so they're trying
00:46:23
to do this big cleanup effort for Biden
00:46:26
but why why is it that people are
00:46:27
feeling this way number one is inflation
00:46:29
and if you look at this chart you can
00:46:31
see that if you look at household net
00:46:35
worth since the start of the Biden
00:46:37
presidency and compare it to the change
00:46:40
in household net worth at a similar
00:46:42
point in Trump's presidency in nominal
00:46:44
terms it appears to be the same but then
00:46:46
if you adjust for inflation in other
00:46:48
words you look at the real household net
00:46:51
worth you can see that household net
00:46:53
worth during the Biden term has been
00:46:55
flat actually it's down because of
00:46:57
inflation right because of inflation
00:46:59
where did the inflation come from where
00:47:01
did the inflation come from yeah well
00:47:04
Larry Summers warned in the first
00:47:05
quarter of the Biden Administration that
00:47:08
if you passed an unnecessary $2 trillion
00:47:11
do of covid stimulus you would produce
00:47:14
inflation the inflation rate when Biden
00:47:16
came into office was 1.7% we had a rip
00:47:18
raring economy but he started
00:47:20
stimulating and we talked about bomic is
00:47:23
this new policy of pumping trillions of
00:47:26
dollars of stimulus
00:47:27
into a healthy economy which we've never
00:47:29
done before what happened inflation went
00:47:31
all the way to 9% so people's wages have
00:47:34
not kept up with the rate of inflation
00:47:35
this is why they feel worse off when you
00:47:38
actually look at purchasing power people
00:47:40
are worse off in terms of their actual
00:47:42
ability to buy things their purchasing
00:47:44
power has gone down wages may have gone
00:47:46
up a little bit but they have not gone
00:47:47
up as much as inflation so people feel
00:47:49
worse off now Larry also had that I
00:47:53
think really informative study showing
00:47:57
that inflation would have Peak at 18% if
00:47:59
you include cost of borrowing so again
00:48:00
to Chamas point if you're trying to get
00:48:02
a mortgage and you're paying 7 and a
00:48:04
half 8% you feel way worse off if you
00:48:07
need to buy a car and make a car payment
00:48:09
you feel much worse off if you've got
00:48:11
credit card debt which is now hit an
00:48:13
all-time record of something like 1.1
00:48:15
trillion your credit card rates have
00:48:17
never been higher right so the average
00:48:19
American feels worse off because cost of
00:48:21
borrowing has a huge impact on their
00:48:23
household finances and that's why if you
00:48:25
read like one of the last paragraph in
00:48:27
that story that you referred to they use
00:48:29
the key words the consumer feels
00:48:31
squeezed the average household feels
00:48:33
squeezed they may not have lost their
00:48:35
job yet but they've lost purchasing
00:48:37
power and they've lost they're under
00:48:39
they're under earning they're under
00:48:40
earning and so the pro this obvious and
00:48:43
you know the pre the Press can Gaslight
00:48:45
us all day long about how wonderful
00:48:46
things are under Biden but the average
00:48:48
American I think understands differently
00:48:51
based on their own experience I think
00:48:53
the whole thing comes down to the
00:48:55
projection of an individual or a
00:48:57
household of their lived experience onto
00:49:00
the economy you assume that because
00:49:02
you're having a tough time the economy
00:49:03
is bad that and the economy as a
00:49:07
definition for them is how do I earn and
00:49:10
how do I spend and if I'm under earning
00:49:12
that means there must be serious job
00:49:14
loss and things are more expensive and
00:49:17
my ability to purchase isn't improving
00:49:20
and so I think we're all kind of going
00:49:21
to end up on the same take on this one I
00:49:23
mean Nick if you want to pull this image
00:49:25
up this is I think a helpful one which
00:49:26
is disposable personal income relative
00:49:29
to outlays that folks are needing to
00:49:31
spend more than they're making so
00:49:34
clearly indicating that they're feeling
00:49:37
like they're under earning so the
00:49:38
projection of that is the economy is bad
00:49:41
without recognizing that it is an
00:49:42
inflationary experience whereas
00:49:44
economists use the definition of of
00:49:47
quote economic growth being gross
00:49:49
production gross product and so if gross
00:49:52
product or gross revenue is going up
00:49:53
they're like oh the economy is healthy
00:49:55
we're growing but the truth is we're
00:49:57
funding that growth with leverage at the
00:50:00
national level the federal level and at
00:50:02
the household and domestic level we are
00:50:05
borrowing money to inflate the revenue
00:50:08
numbers and so the GDP goes up but the
00:50:12
debt is going up higher and so the
00:50:14
ability for folks to support themselves
00:50:16
and buy things that they want to buy and
00:50:19
continue to improve their condition in
00:50:21
life has declined if things are getting
00:50:24
worse and if you go to the next image as
00:50:26
s pointed out already here's the image
00:50:28
of total outstanding credit card debt
00:50:31
over a trillion dollars it's totally
00:50:32
spiked and it's going to continue to
00:50:34
spike just like federal debt because of
00:50:36
the next chart which is the sudden jump
00:50:39
in interest rates so we've seen credit
00:50:41
card interest rates jump from 12% on
00:50:44
average 10 years ago to
00:50:47
21.9% right now and it was at
00:50:50
14% at the end of 2022 so we've gone
00:50:54
from 14% average credit card interest
00:50:56
rates to 22% now in just about 24 20 to
00:51:00
24 months and so the the projection that
00:51:04
I think of the quote economy must be bad
00:51:06
is resulted from the fact that income to
00:51:09
spending is actually pretty negative so
00:51:11
here's the real median family income
00:51:14
this actually only goes through 2019 so
00:51:16
it doesn't even capture the era the era
00:51:18
that we're talking about but this has
00:51:19
been going on uh for quite some time
00:51:22
that the average American's ability to
00:51:23
improve their condition has largely been
00:51:26
driven by their ability to borrow not by
00:51:29
their earnings and this has create a
00:51:31
substantial set of precedents that were
00:51:33
now running into a wall with interest
00:51:35
rates spiking and inflation hitting us
00:51:37
because of the overall federal debt that
00:51:38
we've taken on I think we're probably
00:51:40
going to go around the horn and all
00:51:42
agree obviously the crazy spending
00:51:44
started in the Trump and covid era and
00:51:46
that caused a lot of the inflation as
00:51:48
well just to be fair it's two two
00:51:50
administrations that are just out of
00:51:51
control with spending but uh the way I
00:51:53
look at this is the Mickey D economy
00:51:56
people may not know this but 96% of
00:51:59
Americans eat meals at least once a year
00:52:01
in McDonald's 8% of Americans eat at
00:52:04
McDonald's on an average day and when
00:52:06
you look at the prices of McDonald's
00:52:08
here uh if we look at this image yeah
00:52:10
this is incredible this is incredible
00:52:11
this is unbelievable medium french fries
00:52:14
at McDonald's Buck 79 in 2019 and now
00:52:17
419 and then if we look at just
00:52:19
McNuggets gosh 449 to 758 68% increase
00:52:24
McChicken 1229 to 3 389 and then here is
00:52:28
a very interesting one this is CPI
00:52:30
versus McDonald's Big Mac prices take a
00:52:33
look at that as much as the Consumer
00:52:35
Price Index has surged Big Macs have
00:52:37
exceeded that and so Americans are
00:52:40
seeing this over and over again when
00:52:43
they go to McDonald's and other places
00:52:46
and and that's what's causing the
00:52:48
feeling back to chart go back to that
00:52:50
McNugget chart I just want to see what
00:52:52
what is it end of 2019 so this is
00:52:54
basically you'd want to look at the
00:52:55
fouryear stock price right so like these
00:52:57
guys have jacked up prices massively if
00:53:00
you you look at what's happened to the
00:53:02
stock the stock is way up it's kind of
00:53:03
been they've been very motivated and
00:53:06
rewarded as a company for just rewarding
00:53:08
the shareholder and kind of screwing
00:53:10
over the customer if you own equities in
00:53:13
McDonald's and you're in the top third
00:53:15
or half of maybe half of Americans who
00:53:16
have Equity exposure you're feeling
00:53:18
great if you're on the bottom third or
00:53:20
half and you're buying at McDonald's and
00:53:22
you don't own Equity McDonald's you feel
00:53:24
terrible free break you had some
00:53:25
additional thoughts yeah but remember
00:53:28
what McDonald's and other fast food
00:53:30
companies have said is that labor costs
00:53:32
have climbed here's a chart on labor
00:53:34
costs that Nick can pull up workers at
00:53:36
Walmart and McDonald's have had pay
00:53:39
increases but this has really been to
00:53:41
try and keep up with inflation the
00:53:43
inflation of other costs so a lot of
00:53:46
people will say oh they're price gouging
00:53:48
they're ripping off consumers to make
00:53:49
profits for shareholders but the truth
00:53:51
is the biggest component of running
00:53:53
those restaurants is labor and labor has
00:53:55
gotten more expensive
00:53:57
because the employees that work there
00:53:59
have to earn enough to pay their bills
00:54:01
and to afford their food and this is the
00:54:04
circular effect of inflation it finds
00:54:06
its way all through the economy it
00:54:08
filters down and it eventually hits
00:54:10
everyone look fast food's a pretty
00:54:11
competitive business I mean I think the
00:54:13
reason why McDonald's is Raising prices
00:54:15
because everyone else is Raising prices
00:54:17
I mean otherwise they'd be losing share
00:54:18
and just go to the grocery store and
00:54:20
look at the price of steak or chicken or
00:54:22
whatever or eggs it's gone up
00:54:24
tremendously over the last few years
00:54:27
let me ask you a candy question when's
00:54:29
the last time you were in Supermarket be
00:54:32
honest when's the last time you
00:54:34
literally went to a I'm just curious
00:54:37
It's not relevant I mean yeah look
00:54:40
obviously we know that the price of eggs
00:54:42
doesn't affect me okay great I'm in a
00:54:43
fortunate position that's not what the
00:54:45
topic is the topic is what is the impact
00:54:47
on the American people and why why do
00:54:49
70% of the people in that poll feel that
00:54:52
we're in a recession even though the
00:54:54
expert tell us we're not and I've
00:54:55
explained
00:54:56
yeah and and the other thing is there's
00:54:59
a went to supermarket the day I like
00:55:01
going to supermarket I take my I believe
00:55:04
how expensive things I mean some of the
00:55:06
stuff I was just blown away how
00:55:08
expensive things it's Bonkers about the
00:55:09
look at the look at the package I sent
00:55:11
you guys the Driscoll super sweet
00:55:13
strawberries you cornered the market on
00:55:15
I went and tried to find them here in
00:55:17
Sano there's none left they said shth
00:55:19
cornered the market went toas not and I
00:55:22
no not and I go to sigonas every week a
00:55:25
because we like buying our own fruit
00:55:27
yeah but also be because our kids like
00:55:28
to do it and they like to see what
00:55:30
things cost and they like to pick stuff
00:55:32
but fantastic you know this sweetest
00:55:33
batch was seven bucks for how many
00:55:35
strawberries it by the way 12
00:55:37
strawberries in there well so here's
00:55:38
what I'll tell you quite honestly I'm
00:55:40
like I think that you need to put these
00:55:43
guys on notice oh on blast the perfume
00:55:48
so the the the nose like just like it's
00:55:51
incredible okay the smell is the aroma
00:55:54
is just absolutely incredible yeah but
00:55:57
to be totally honest with you the mouth
00:55:58
feel and the sweetness is not what this
00:56:01
label would imply yeah what were you
00:56:05
expecting in terms of mouth feel I was
00:56:08
expecting like something juicier more
00:56:12
succulent let let me ask you a question
00:56:14
do you have a somaler for your fruit
00:56:16
yeah I mean you seem like a real
00:56:18
connoisseur here you do T no I told been
00:56:21
texting I've been I've been texting
00:56:23
freedberg about this for months I am a
00:56:26
connoisseur of fruit okay it's very
00:56:29
important to me I like good fruit so you
00:56:32
know my wife and I go and find good
00:56:33
fruit for our family and it's really
00:56:36
expensive and even this overpromises and
00:56:38
underd deliver so
00:56:39
freeberg if you can land a GMO
00:56:42
strawberry I'm gonna put it in my
00:56:45
belly give me a GMO strawberry freeberg
00:56:47
twice as big three times as sweet get in
00:56:50
my belly I think we should all go to
00:56:52
Tokyo for a weekend and do some fruit
00:56:55
tasting in Tokyo you have to get on the
00:56:57
Hokkaido strawberries this is where it's
00:57:00
at you have no idea like what you can
00:57:02
spend on strawberries people are
00:57:04
spending 10 bucks on a strawberry it is
00:57:06
Bonkers I bought a $100 mango once in
00:57:08
Tokyo yeah
00:57:10
incredible you know the other thing I
00:57:12
think with these numbers is if you're an
00:57:14
economist and you're like inflation has
00:57:17
gone down that means the rate of
00:57:20
inflation's gone down from 6 or 7% down
00:57:22
to 3% or 2.9 or 3.1 that doesn't mean
00:57:24
prices aren't still going up
00:57:27
and if you want to replace if you want
00:57:29
to replace GDP there was a very good
00:57:31
article in the Wall Street Journal a few
00:57:34
weeks ago about how there's been just a
00:57:36
total breakdown in what these highlevel
00:57:38
numbers say kind of what we've been
00:57:40
saying and how Americans feel and they
00:57:42
introduced a different score well they
00:57:44
they gave it publicity it's not their
00:57:46
score but it's something that they call
00:57:48
the core score okay and what that does
00:57:50
it's I'll just read it to you just so
00:57:52
you can understand it it's a county
00:57:54
level index of well being using measures
00:57:57
of Economic Security Economic
00:58:00
Opportunity health and political voice
00:58:02
and so the lowest possible score is zero
00:58:04
the highest possible score is 10 as it
00:58:06
turns out when they use this across
00:58:08
every County in America the distribution
00:58:10
is basically as follows the the most
00:58:13
quote unquote prosperous county is FS
00:58:16
Church Virginia which is 7.86 out of 10
00:58:20
and the lowest county is Jim Haw County
00:58:22
of Texas which has a score of 2.25 so to
00:58:26
the extent that you want to start to
00:58:27
look at granular measures this is one
00:58:29
I'm not going to advocate for it but
00:58:31
it's an example but what are you
00:58:33
noticing here what I noticed is that
00:58:35
there's a lot of patches of like me to
00:58:38
not good in most parts of America and so
00:58:43
other than a very few small Pockets
00:58:45
where people feel
00:58:47
great most of the country is sort of
00:58:50
dissatisfied and I think that that's a
00:58:52
really important thing to internalize
00:58:54
yeah some of this is classic psychology
00:58:57
you know people do focus on the negative
00:58:59
the media focuses on the ne negative and
00:59:01
then with social media people are seeing
00:59:03
Lifestyles that are unattainable just
00:59:05
like they're seeing body types that are
00:59:07
unattainable because people are doing
00:59:08
filters you're also seeing people living
00:59:10
a lifestyle that's unattainable and then
00:59:13
it makes people because their
00:59:14
expectation of their life is so high
00:59:17
when they then subtract the reality of
00:59:19
their life they've got a deficit and
00:59:20
really happiness is like expectations
00:59:23
minus reality equals happiness yeah but
00:59:26
you had that same Dynamic when consumer
00:59:28
sentiment was much higher in a previous
00:59:30
administration people are feeling much
00:59:31
better about the economy so that's a
00:59:33
constant yeah well people were having
00:59:34
free money Dro on head people having
00:59:37
free Trump dropped free money on
00:59:38
people's head so your argument that
00:59:40
Biden was crazy in spending sent with
00:59:43
his name on it yeah when the economy
00:59:45
when the economy was down 33%
00:59:47
year-over-year but you ad that way too
00:59:50
much money right you admit he spent way
00:59:52
both parties thought that we were headed
00:59:54
for depression and so we had a
00:59:57
bipartisan stimulus Bill during an
00:59:58
actual crisis once the crisis was over
01:00:01
there was no need to keep
01:00:03
spending so when Trump signed Jason
01:00:07
Jason let's be fair he wasn't
01:00:09
responsible and once the seal has been
01:00:12
broken yeah I think it's fair to say
01:00:14
both sides of the aisle now believe that
01:00:18
they can give away an enormous amount of
01:00:21
money both there there's nobody that
01:00:23
feels like they have a responsibility to
01:00:25
stop
01:00:26
but I think I think SX is but saaks is
01:00:28
right in the sense that so if you take
01:00:30
that as a constant right that there will
01:00:33
always be handouts now of all kinds yep
01:00:36
there'll be different flavors depending
01:00:37
on whether it's a Republican or whether
01:00:39
a Democrat a Democrat all an all
01:00:41
rationalized it's it's all but so then
01:00:43
what I'm saying is that's my point this
01:00:45
abstraction though doesn't solve what's
01:00:48
happening now because this free money is
01:00:49
in the system it's constantly in the
01:00:51
system it comes in different wavs so
01:00:54
people should feel better the that they
01:00:56
don't in the face of this constant Money
01:00:58
Train y I think is actually quite
01:01:00
alarming this is I think what the point
01:01:02
is which is we are economically in a
01:01:05
very complicated moment in the sense
01:01:06
that there is no pandemic to blame
01:01:09
there's no economy that's totally shut
01:01:11
down in fact there's an economy that
01:01:12
seems to be moving but leaving an
01:01:15
enormous number of people behind so
01:01:17
however it has been structured just
01:01:19
sitting here today in
01:01:20
2024 it's broken for more people than
01:01:23
it's working for yeah Trump just to give
01:01:25
facts Trump will have spent 7.8 trillion
01:01:28
Biden will spend slightly less like 6.x
01:01:30
trillion at the end of these things
01:01:31
they're both going to have added you're
01:01:33
missing the fact that Trump had 2020
01:01:36
with when we had the covid depression or
01:01:39
what what could have been when the
01:01:41
econ year over year yeah and a terribly
01:01:44
time tax did you guys see hold on a
01:01:47
second let me just make this one point
01:01:49
just because both parties have been
01:01:52
irresponsible in spending doesn't mean
01:01:54
that we can't make further judgment
01:01:56
about who's been worse sure what's
01:01:58
happened in the Biden Administration is
01:02:00
just quantitatively worse well no
01:02:02
quantitatively Trump spent more but
01:02:04
you're saying qualitatively Biden's is
01:02:06
worse because he didn't need to there
01:02:08
was no crisis right okay so one spent
01:02:11
more one spent less but one didn't need
01:02:13
to and one abs look at look at Trump's
01:02:15
spending before Co look at Trump's
01:02:17
spending before covid it was like a 5%
01:02:19
bump on Obama spending well the the tax
01:02:22
break was the one that that accounted
01:02:24
for a lot of yeah but anyway we can sit
01:02:27
here and debate Trump versus Biden let's
01:02:29
talk about my balls boys yeah we're
01:02:31
wasting time here wasting time on Trump
01:02:34
and Biden when we could be talking my B
01:02:36
if we're gonna talk about our balls we
01:02:39
need to go to somebody who's an expert
01:02:42
on our testicles
01:02:44
freeberg let's go right to science
01:02:46
Corner let's talk about our balls with
01:02:51
the Sultan of science there's been a
01:02:53
study on phalates our balls and plastic
01:02:55
in our balls free bark te this up yeah
01:02:58
the consumer reports put out a really
01:03:00
interesting or what has become pretty
01:03:03
widely covered now story a couple weeks
01:03:05
ago where they measured phalates in
01:03:07
common foods and Nick if you want to
01:03:09
just pull up the image that's been
01:03:10
repeated in a lot of media a lot of
01:03:12
press people were going nuts over this
01:03:14
phalates are these chemical compounds
01:03:17
that are used in Plastics or used with
01:03:19
plastics to soften them so when you make
01:03:22
Plastics you can kind of you know make
01:03:24
them softer and form them into Al to
01:03:25
different shapes and use them for
01:03:27
different applications like plastic bags
01:03:29
or wraps or tubes or all sorts of things
01:03:32
and uh theats are these kind of smaller
01:03:34
molecules that that kind of go along
01:03:37
with the polymers that that are the
01:03:39
basis of the Plastics and they measured
01:03:41
phalates which are known to be toxic in
01:03:43
terms of if you get enough of them they
01:03:45
can be carcinogenic and cause
01:03:47
cancer and they show that every product
01:03:50
they tested had phalates in it wend
01:03:53
these chicken nuggets had you know 33,00
01:03:56
nanog per serving if you scroll up to
01:03:58
the top look at the wait look at the
01:04:00
Chipotle chicken burrito oh my God right
01:04:02
and just to be clear guys this is not
01:04:04
just about packaging packaging plays a
01:04:07
role but the whole food supply chain the
01:04:10
way we wrap food all of our water all of
01:04:13
our dust all of the air we breathe we
01:04:15
have measured theats in everything so
01:04:18
these phalates end up in the animals
01:04:20
that are used to make milk and the
01:04:21
animals that people eat they end up in
01:04:23
the water that goes into the vegetables
01:04:25
that we grow in the ground they end up
01:04:27
being used to make the little plastic
01:04:28
jars that we feed our kids out of the
01:04:30
little yogurt pouches that our kids
01:04:32
drink out of everything all just to move
01:04:34
food around in plastic packaging free B
01:04:37
freeberg why would the chicken nuggets
01:04:39
from Wendy's though be so is it because
01:04:41
they are eating they are eating things
01:04:44
that have Plastics in them Plastics in
01:04:46
them but but we also don't know and so
01:04:48
we're eating the chicken so we're eating
01:04:50
the plastic we're eating the plastic and
01:04:51
it's also the fact that the way that
01:04:53
they process the chicken and the
01:04:54
material that they use and the pack
01:04:56
they from you gots are chicken breast
01:05:00
that put in the and then the has has you
01:05:04
know the oil is transported in plastic
01:05:06
we don't know so it's plastic all the
01:05:07
way down at this these are the things
01:05:11
like look at Annie's I first of all I
01:05:13
really dislike Annie's labeling and pack
01:05:16
packaging I think it's very ugly so I've
01:05:18
never bought it for that reason but I
01:05:20
know that there's a lot of private
01:05:21
Equity moms that buy anies because it's
01:05:23
supposed to be better
01:05:26
keep going this is a point hold on
01:05:29
Jamal's making a really good point go
01:05:30
ahead Jamal this is really good and so
01:05:32
the problem is you see organic when you
01:05:34
go like we again we go to drers that's
01:05:37
typically where we go sometimes we go to
01:05:38
Whole Foods but we go to drers and
01:05:39
sagonas that's the places we go to in
01:05:41
our neighborhood and when you go and you
01:05:44
look at these things like prepared meals
01:05:45
as an example the thing that has always
01:05:49
attracted me to Annie's is because it is
01:05:51
positioned as it is cleaner and better
01:05:53
for you and you see everybody buying it
01:05:56
and what you actually see sitting on the
01:05:58
shelf that's left over is actually the
01:06:00
chef boy Rd and the Campell and I always
01:06:03
thought to myself I won't buy anies
01:06:05
because I actually don't like the label
01:06:06
to be honest that was like that was
01:06:08
really why I did just deeply dislike the
01:06:11
packaging but it turns out it's the
01:06:12
absolute worst for you yeah it is and
01:06:15
and let me just tell you guys let me
01:06:16
tell you guys some stats about this so
01:06:18
we produced about three million tons of
01:06:20
thights a year creating them that we use
01:06:22
in our industrial supply chain the
01:06:24
global market for thights is about
01:06:25
billion per year we find it everywhere
01:06:28
in our tap water as measured in the US
01:06:32
in multiple places there's about one
01:06:34
microgram so those were nanograms so you
01:06:36
kind of divide it by a thousand so that
01:06:38
Annie thing has 50 micrograms of
01:06:40
Daylights in it but there's about one
01:06:41
microgram of phalates per liter of water
01:06:44
that you're drinking now here's um a
01:06:46
study was done out of Germany where they
01:06:48
basically tried to estimate how much
01:06:51
people were consuming and on average
01:06:53
people consume or ingest about
01:06:56
micrograms of phalates per kilogram of
01:06:58
your body weight per day so an adult
01:06:59
male is is consuming about 500
01:07:02
micrograms of phalates per day that's
01:07:04
half a gram per day and the human body
01:07:08
metabolizes and excretes it it comes out
01:07:10
the EPA all of the administrative like
01:07:12
agencies that oversee this stuff they're
01:07:14
like it's okay we metabolize it as long
01:07:16
as we don't consume more than we can
01:07:18
metabolize it's going to be safe because
01:07:20
it's not going to stay in our bodies
01:07:21
it's going to was out here's the problem
01:07:24
while it's in your body while while it's
01:07:25
moving through your body being
01:07:27
metabolized it is what's called an
01:07:28
endocrine disruptor and we talked about
01:07:30
this in the past with respect to the
01:07:31
sunscreens these phalates actually
01:07:34
interfere with the hormones that are
01:07:36
made by things like your pituitary gland
01:07:38
your thyroid and even some of the
01:07:40
hormones that are produced in testicle
01:07:43
cells there was another study done that
01:07:46
really tried to estimate what the impact
01:07:48
was and here is a study that showed how
01:07:51
do phalates actually interact with
01:07:54
different parts of the endocrine system
01:07:57
and they went through and they found all
01:07:59
these places that biological hormones
01:08:02
and the endocrine system are disrupted
01:08:05
by the phalates and and we'll put credit
01:08:07
for everyone um that that that shared
01:08:10
these papers here later and they
01:08:12
basically showed the mechanism by which
01:08:15
the phalates are actually disrupting
01:08:18
endocrine systems now what is the
01:08:21
endocrine system we've talked about
01:08:22
endocrine disruptors in the past the
01:08:24
endocrine system is the interaction of
01:08:26
hormones with cells in your body
01:08:28
produced by all these different glands
01:08:30
in your body like your thyroid your
01:08:31
pituitary gland and so on controls
01:08:33
things like growth tissue development
01:08:35
reproductive tissue activity like making
01:08:37
sperm cells autonomic function like body
01:08:40
temperature blood pressure sleep heart
01:08:42
rate regulation injury and stress
01:08:44
response your mood all of those things
01:08:46
are regulated by your endocrine system
01:08:48
and so when the the the hormones or the
01:08:50
proteins or peptides that are made by
01:08:51
those glands are disrupted by these
01:08:54
phalates it can actually dis disrupt
01:08:55
those systems and mess them up so while
01:08:57
we're not consuming generally speaking
01:09:00
enough phalates to cause cancer and
01:09:02
therefore we all say hey it's okay these
01:09:04
phades aren't that bad we're not going
01:09:06
to all die from cancer the truth is
01:09:08
there is demonstrations now on how they
01:09:11
can actually disrupt the activity of
01:09:12
your endocrine system and as a result
01:09:14
have all of these dilus effects another
01:09:16
study done on 125 men out of China this
01:09:20
this paper was done out of
01:09:21
China they saw damage to testicle cells
01:09:26
that would die testicle cells that would
01:09:28
produce fewer sperm and then testicle
01:09:30
cells that produced sperm with extra
01:09:32
nuclei and they actually demonstrated
01:09:34
this in rats so the set of compounds can
01:09:37
be fairly disruptive so now we'll go to
01:09:40
the next story right and the next story
01:09:42
is the one that everyone's writing about
01:09:43
which is oh my God there's plastic and
01:09:44
balls so a team at University of New
01:09:46
Mexico that was published in the Journal
01:09:48
of toxicological Sciences just last week
01:09:51
they took 47 neuter dogs testicles from
01:09:54
a local pet CL where they were getting
01:09:56
neutered and they found on average 128
01:09:59
microG per of microplastics in those
01:10:03
testicles and it was mostly you know
01:10:05
polyvinyl chloride or one of the the
01:10:07
main Plastics and polyethylene and again
01:10:10
phalates leech out of these Plastics and
01:10:12
leech into the cells and then they went
01:10:14
to the medical investigator's office and
01:10:16
they found these uh the testicles that
01:10:19
were frozen for seven years because when
01:10:20
they do a medical investigation and they
01:10:22
keep all the body parts they keep them
01:10:23
on ice and then they throw them away
01:10:24
after seven years years so before they
01:10:25
threw them away they got permission of
01:10:27
humans they got permission to use these
01:10:29
testicles to figure out are they
01:10:31
Plastics and they measured them in the
01:10:33
Frozen balls in the Frozen balls these
01:10:36
are ancient Frozen balls how old are
01:10:37
these balls 23 Frozen balls about seven
01:10:40
years old okay seven-year-old balls
01:10:42
Frozen Wait are people donating their
01:10:43
balls to science is that how no it's
01:10:45
like when there's like a homicide or
01:10:48
someone and or you don't know who died
01:10:49
or there's an investigation into why
01:10:51
someone died the the corner the corner
01:10:54
keeps the body parts in case it's needed
01:10:56
for a like a police case later as stay
01:10:59
on the record I don't want my balls used
01:11:01
that way okay you don't have the Frozen
01:11:04
balls on your driver's license like
01:11:06
freeze my balls they asked me to store
01:11:08
my balls I think said you got such huge
01:11:10
balls anyway they got 23 23 of these
01:11:13
these balls from these bodies and they
01:11:15
found um Plastics on average 328
01:11:19
micrograms per gram of of
01:11:23
testicle in in these balls what you
01:11:25
usually find free BG what do you usually
01:11:27
find in these balls well we don't we
01:11:29
don't know because we've never taken
01:11:30
human tissue and tried to take it apart
01:11:32
in a very detailed way to figure out
01:11:34
like how much plastic is there you know
01:11:36
what is it doing to our body but now I
01:11:38
just want to connect the dots so now we
01:11:39
have a sense that there's these states
01:11:41
and these other compounds that come with
01:11:42
plastics that leak in that cause all
01:11:44
this disruption separately we're seeing
01:11:46
this accumulation of these little
01:11:47
plastic particles and remember Plastics
01:11:50
are polymers they're long chains of
01:11:52
monomers and so they can be short chains
01:11:54
they can be long so they break apart
01:11:56
break apart break apart and little tiny
01:11:57
bits of them end up and they're very
01:11:59
hard to metabolize and they sit in your
01:12:01
tissue and then they can cause all this
01:12:03
disruption so you know I think these are
01:12:05
like generally I'm just gonna say it I'm
01:12:08
just first of all I really appreciate
01:12:09
that you did this I think it's so
01:12:11
important we talked about microplastics
01:12:13
a little bit ago you know jcal moved his
01:12:16
whole family away I guess a few years
01:12:18
ago from Plastics I've started to do it
01:12:20
four or five months ago after you can't
01:12:22
get away from it it is everywhere supply
01:12:25
chain is your point it's a it's in the
01:12:27
water it's in the air it's everywhere
01:12:29
this is what I was going to say I think
01:12:30
our food supply I think we should just
01:12:32
say it out loud is totally corrupted and
01:12:35
I think there's all of these other
01:12:37
factors we look at the rise in the use
01:12:40
of ssris the lack of sexual function in
01:12:44
young men the lack of sex the low birth
01:12:47
rate I think these are all related and
01:12:50
part of it is the food supply and part
01:12:52
of the food supply problem is a fact
01:12:55
that it is corrupted by these materials
01:12:57
that should never be in our body I want
01:12:59
to just push back on this because I I
01:13:00
don't want Li that's a guess but I
01:13:02
honestly think it's a truth I don't want
01:13:04
to limit it I don't want to limit it to
01:13:05
the food supply because here's the other
01:13:07
thing all of us are wearing clothes that
01:13:09
use polymers which are Plastics all of
01:13:11
us are sitting at desks that have
01:13:13
Coatings of polymers on them all of us
01:13:15
have iPhones that use polymers all of
01:13:18
us drive cars and the rubber one of the
01:13:21
ways that they found that uh plastic
01:13:23
these microp particles are getting in
01:13:24
the air is through tires when we drive
01:13:27
little particulates end up in the
01:13:28
atmosphere we breathe them in and then
01:13:30
they end up in our body every part of
01:13:33
our industrial supply chain uses
01:13:35
polymers every part of our industrial
01:13:36
supply chain hear you but the
01:13:38
concentration I'm going to guess that
01:13:39
the concentration when you actually put
01:13:41
it in your body and then your intestines
01:13:44
and your organs are bathed in this
01:13:48
stuff I'm going to guess that the food
01:13:50
supply has a huge part to do with this
01:13:53
yeah but when you're let's say you take
01:13:54
let's say you're wearing a clothing
01:13:56
almost all of our clothes now many of
01:13:58
our clothes have polymers in them we put
01:14:00
it in the washing machine it ends up in
01:14:01
the water supply chain we consume that
01:14:03
water I it's very hard to say that
01:14:05
there's a specific action our whole
01:14:07
system has been inundated with these
01:14:10
lower cost let me say it in a way that
01:14:12
maybe you will agree with then we need
01:14:15
to fix something my starting point would
01:14:17
be the food supply yeah where do you
01:14:20
start yeah water yeah my big my big
01:14:22
takeaway is is sort of like yours which
01:14:23
is almost impossible to alter this
01:14:25
industry overnight given how ubiquitous
01:14:26
these compounds are and everything we do
01:14:28
and touch tires phones clothing Etc but
01:14:32
I think that this is going to trigger
01:14:34
and is the beginning of a wave I'm
01:14:35
noticing that a lot of folks are going
01:14:37
to start to pay attention in the food
01:14:40
industry and start to figure out ways to
01:14:43
represent low plastic low phalate food
01:14:46
products as a way to kind of sell a more
01:14:48
premium solution I think that's been the
01:14:50
trend historically with the food
01:14:51
industry chth is to respond to your ask
01:14:54
right now and to then show up with with
01:14:56
solution so I do think that that's and
01:14:58
and just just taking a step
01:15:00
back we don't have to use these these
01:15:04
are all based on fossil fuel so the way
01:15:06
we make Plastics is we basically pull
01:15:08
oil out of the ground and we turn it
01:15:09
into these polymers That's the basis of
01:15:11
this chemical industry we don't have to
01:15:13
do that with the same function we can
01:15:16
get the same function from what are
01:15:17
called bioplastics so these can these
01:15:19
are compounds that can actually be much
01:15:21
more biodegradable that are made with
01:15:23
biological systems and not made from oil
01:15:26
using synthetic chemical systems so I do
01:15:28
think that there's a
01:15:30
really big opportunity for for a wave of
01:15:33
bioplastic Alternatives given that this
01:15:35
is now becoming a little bit more
01:15:38
obvious to folks that there is this kind
01:15:39
of systemic problem that this is
01:15:42
ubiquitous and that we do need to kind
01:15:43
of address it okay so just zooming out
01:15:45
here for a minute you talked about the
01:15:47
phalates but what about the Bas
01:15:50
freeberg the study on the Bas let me
01:15:54
play in what are the both Jason both
01:15:56
these
01:16:03
nuts well done that was really well done
01:16:07
that was really really well done you
01:16:08
[ __ ] you
01:16:10
nail up before the show I was like what
01:16:12
is BAS
01:16:18
B that's awesome why not to start
01:16:21
laughing before you deliver the joke
01:16:23
next time oh my God where's the air horn
01:16:26
Nick play the air horn no no okay let's
01:16:28
get serious here for a second I have a
01:16:30
real question part of the thing that I
01:16:31
think is broken is that I think
01:16:33
somewhere along the way we got screwed
01:16:35
up in how food is labeled right and we
01:16:38
and then it was it was gamed effectively
01:16:40
right so for for years even when I was
01:16:42
growing up I thought you should not buy
01:16:44
food that had that was high in fat as an
01:16:47
example and little did I know I was
01:16:48
ingesting all these sugars as a
01:16:50
substitute to Fat it was a total
01:16:52
mistake does the labeling to become
01:16:55
simpler and focus on these things that
01:16:56
are just fundamentally carcinogenic for
01:16:59
us one two are there like lawsuits that
01:17:02
need to happen Allah cigarettes where
01:17:05
you kind of connect the dots between
01:17:07
these phalates and and a bunch of these
01:17:10
diseases because it just seems like we
01:17:12
are people have thrown their hands in
01:17:14
the air for years right some people say
01:17:16
autism and diet are correlated right
01:17:19
other people so there there you know
01:17:20
Crohn's the rise of Crohns there's so
01:17:22
many of these conditions
01:17:25
that there is a cohort of people that
01:17:27
attribute most of the reason the
01:17:31
pathology of the disease exists to food
01:17:33
so what do we do or pesticides right
01:17:35
yeah that was in there too is that your
01:17:37
actual office behind you or is that a
01:17:38
background Jam that's my office yeah
01:17:41
yeah so like every one of those books is
01:17:45
coded in some of these compounds no
01:17:48
these are phade free because these are
01:17:49
from the 1400s they didn't have that
01:17:52
back then okay good all right well
01:17:55
everything else that the desk is made of
01:17:56
all of those collector items yeah these
01:17:59
are collector's items bro these are
01:18:00
these are from an era where that stuff
01:18:02
didn't exist and you're you're you're
01:18:03
pure I'm assuming you're you're you're
01:18:04
wearing a pure baby wool sweater which
01:18:07
doesn't have any polymers it's baby casm
01:18:10
yeah but I think what's what what's
01:18:12
what's overwhelming about biodegradable
01:18:14
right I think I think baby Catherine is
01:18:16
biodegradable it is what's overwhelming
01:18:19
about this problem is the ubiquity of
01:18:20
the problem it's almost like asking tell
01:18:23
me everywhere that carbon is used like
01:18:25
imagine if you had to label every no I
01:18:28
I'm trying I'm trying to hone you into
01:18:29
this one area that I actually I I get
01:18:31
the tires and the this and the that I'm
01:18:33
trying to get to something that I
01:18:34
fundamentally care about I have young
01:18:36
children I feed them food every day I
01:18:39
don't trust my food supply I've never
01:18:41
really trusted it and this kind of stuff
01:18:44
adds to this body of evidence where I'm
01:18:47
worried that if my kids go through some
01:18:49
kind of an
01:18:50
issue at the core of it will actually be
01:18:52
something dietary and it's typically
01:18:54
overlooked by modern medicine because
01:18:57
you'll treat it symic you'll try to give
01:18:59
it some kind of pill it's not how you
01:19:02
treat a lot of these things it could
01:19:04
turn out where I think restructuring
01:19:07
someone's diet can actually have an
01:19:08
enormous impact so I'm just trying to
01:19:10
figure out what is something that we can
01:19:11
all start to do to get a handle on this
01:19:15
because you're putting food in your body
01:19:16
every day yeah it seems like you're
01:19:19
saying it's it's um helpless here
01:19:21
freeberg there's nothing we can do and I
01:19:23
think what jamath and I are saying
01:19:24
asking you is like where do we start how
01:19:26
can we start to get off of plastics I
01:19:29
think we got to go into the source so
01:19:31
biopolymers are made by living organisms
01:19:33
they're they're typically longer chains
01:19:37
of what are more like sugar molecules
01:19:40
and they can be used in a similar way
01:19:42
that we're they're not going to be as
01:19:43
good as synthetic polymers that we use
01:19:46
today so a lot of our applications a lot
01:19:48
of our industry would have to be rebuilt
01:19:49
if we really wanted to go back to
01:19:51
redesign the whole system but we got to
01:19:53
redesign the whole system we're making
01:19:55
everything out of these products because
01:19:57
they're cheap and because we can pull
01:19:58
oil out of the ground and turn it into
01:20:00
cheap stuff and then it makes things
01:20:02
affordable for everyone on Earth and
01:20:03
that's how this industry emerged you
01:20:05
know it was not like some someone
01:20:07
randomly came along and said let's put
01:20:08
Plastics and everything because it's
01:20:10
going to be good for people it was a way
01:20:12
to make products more accessible and
01:20:13
more available and cheaper and it's
01:20:15
everywhere um and so I think there's
01:20:16
this real question of like what
01:20:19
industrial synthetic chemistries do we
01:20:21
use today as a species that we should
01:20:23
rethink using and start at that level
01:20:26
and then rebuild from there and I think
01:20:28
shining a light on this stuff and just
01:20:29
talking about what these products are
01:20:31
find I think that's L latory but too
01:20:34
complicated I want something simpler
01:20:36
which is like can we get a law passed so
01:20:39
that chickens cannot eat certain kinds
01:20:41
of food that are known to be high in
01:20:42
phalates yeah and here's an idea look at
01:20:44
this chth like look at this banana like
01:20:47
I just as a news flash a banana already
01:20:49
has a wrapper it's called the peel and
01:20:52
then people are wrapping Plastics on
01:20:53
this stuff like I think consumers need
01:20:56
to demand that like why you take a
01:20:58
picture of a banana why did you take a
01:20:59
picture of a banana I found that on the
01:21:01
internet I didn't actually take it
01:21:02
myself okay I thought you were like
01:21:04
sitting at the store photographing ban
01:21:06
you know when you see this kind of
01:21:07
packaging this is what has made me nuts
01:21:10
in my life is all this crazy packaging
01:21:12
going on and in Europe you are required
01:21:15
at the supermarket and people do this
01:21:17
when they get to the end of the counter
01:21:18
they take the packaging off the
01:21:20
supermarket has to take the packaging
01:21:22
right so they have to bear the burden of
01:21:24
it so if you get a tube a toothpaste you
01:21:25
can take the packaging off and hand them
01:21:26
the thing other places are now saying
01:21:28
hey if you're coming for peanut butter
01:21:31
or grains or flour or sugar they have a
01:21:33
barrel of sugar they put it in a brown
01:21:35
bag and and you get this like more clean
01:21:38
experience I think we have to have like
01:21:40
both ends of this the supply chain but
01:21:41
also consumers there's a there's like a
01:21:43
marketing I want my bananas to come with
01:21:45
packaging on them you do you want
01:21:48
fingerprints I don't want anyone's
01:21:49
fingerprints
01:21:51
Banas you don't eat the peel but brother
01:21:53
you don't eat the peel yeah but it's I
01:21:55
could touch it I haven't we haven't
01:21:57
bought water bottles I want everything
01:21:59
to come in hermetically sealed plastic
01:22:03
yeah but then how many people in your
01:22:04
house handle your banana pause whoa whoa
01:22:08
she ask him how many people in his house
01:22:09
handled his banana oh no Diddy no but
01:22:13
the re the real issue is not that it's
01:22:14
like when the girls in your family have
01:22:17
puberty younger and younger and you're
01:22:19
like why is that happening or
01:22:20
inconsistent periods or when the boys go
01:22:23
through these weird you know moments
01:22:25
where they're like not really growing
01:22:26
was Tik Tok no I'm I'm just telling you
01:22:29
like there's so many things that we have
01:22:31
to panic about it's hard to to your
01:22:33
point it's hard to attribute yeah to one
01:22:36
thing yeah but I think I think the I
01:22:37
think the thing that everybody could get
01:22:39
get focused on is how can you correct at
01:22:41
least the marketing versus the reality
01:22:43
in our food supply you know a different
01:22:45
example I remember Nat telling me
01:22:47
something which was along the lines of
01:22:49
like hormone free is something that's
01:22:51
marketed but like chickens have been
01:22:52
hormone free since the 50s but it's like
01:22:56
there's some latent hormones left inside
01:22:58
of them and then some of the feed is is
01:23:01
really poorly constructed and you should
01:23:04
be focused on like air chilled versus
01:23:06
water chilled or whatever there's just
01:23:08
so much [ __ ] out
01:23:10
there and so I think it's hard if you're
01:23:13
like trying to take care of your family
01:23:15
sense of it all yeah makes sense of it
01:23:16
all it's just like it I think everyone
01:23:18
everyone feels helpless and everyone
01:23:19
wants to Gras I find this super
01:23:21
frustrating because it's something that
01:23:23
I I really care about my like what I eat
01:23:25
right totally and it came from a place
01:23:27
where a lot of disease in my family and
01:23:30
then I was overweight when I was young
01:23:32
and so I just want to kind of like tow a
01:23:34
no I mean you eatle imposs you if you're
01:23:37
eating know Jason but but my my takeaway
01:23:39
is there's going to be a lot of phalates
01:23:43
in my balls yes absolutely despite all
01:23:45
the stuff that I do I'm no better off
01:23:48
than somebody eating at Wendy's in the
01:23:50
end of the day and I feel like well what
01:23:52
is all that time and expense and
01:23:54
difficulty yeah is is it's not worth it
01:23:57
well there's other health benefits to it
01:23:58
of course and there's environmental
01:24:00
benefits but I you know we went all
01:24:02
glass bottles as I told you and you know
01:24:04
then I find out that some of the cans we
01:24:06
have because it's a couple of things we
01:24:08
like like certain natural sodas they got
01:24:10
plastic on the inside of the aluminum on
01:24:12
theide exactly I'm like I thought I was
01:24:13
doing the right thing here by going
01:24:14
aluminum
01:24:15
can plastic on the inside exactly so the
01:24:18
moral of the story is don't try to do
01:24:20
the right thing I mean I don't know but
01:24:24
anyway I just want to I think this stuff
01:24:25
is unavoidable I really do that's why
01:24:27
I'm not worri about I think I think I
01:24:30
think you're right and I think that's
01:24:31
why you see all of these kinds of
01:24:34
diseases these chronic and acute
01:24:37
conditions just ticking up tick tick
01:24:38
tick tick tick tick tick it's uh well
01:24:40
anyway I think this was a fascinating
01:24:42
science corner and uh I I I um I took a
01:24:46
screenshot of saxs during it this is
01:24:48
Sax's interest level you can always tell
01:24:49
how good it
01:24:51
is no look I thought I thought this was
01:24:55
a science corner I could finally use you
01:24:57
know absolutely yeah they they actually
01:25:00
checked Sax's balls for the Plastics and
01:25:02
all they found were steel so there it is
01:25:05
there you go yeah it's just brass balls
01:25:07
going around the horn here what's your
01:25:08
favorite balls in pop culture for me
01:25:11
it's got to be idiocracy I love have you
01:25:15
guys seen Idiocracy in Mike judge's film
01:25:17
I haven't seen it okay so in the film
01:25:19
I'll just cue this up Society has gone
01:25:22
to the lowest possible IQ everybody's
01:25:24
got an adiq and like people like a
01:25:27
reality TV star is running the country
01:25:29
into the ground that's what he has in
01:25:33
Idiocracy and the number one television
01:25:35
show is essentially a Tik Tok called
01:25:38
ouch my balls here it
01:25:52
is oh [ __ ] the
01:25:57
wall it's basically the number one
01:26:00
television show in this Society this
01:26:03
dystopian
01:26:04
Society where all the crops have died
01:26:09
and they don't know how to make crops
01:26:10
anymore is ouch my balls it's just a
01:26:13
super cut of a guy getting kicked in the
01:26:15
nuts saak what's your favorite ball
01:26:17
moment in pop
01:26:20
culture agree Glenn Ross all right here
01:26:22
it is folks this is this
01:26:25
these that's like Baldwin yeah freeberg
01:26:26
you got a favorite ball clip from pop
01:26:28
culture for yourself that tickles you no
01:26:32
chop you got one I'm gonna find one you
01:26:35
got one okay everybody this has been
01:26:39
a
01:26:42
spectacular episode of the world's
01:26:45
number one podcast it's episode 180 of
01:26:47
the all-in
01:26:48
podcast with you again for the Sultan of
01:26:52
science David Friedberg
01:26:55
David
01:26:57
Sachs there's a compilation of YouTube
01:27:00
on YouTube of all these Austin Powers
01:27:03
moments of Austin Powers getting kicked
01:27:04
in the balls yeah babies and we'll see
01:27:07
you all at The Summit in
01:27:10
September
01:27:11
byebye love you Bo
01:27:15
byebye let your winners
01:27:17
ride Rainman
01:27:22
David and instead we open Source it to
01:27:24
the fans and they've just gone crazy
01:27:26
with it queen
01:27:29
[Music]
01:27:35
of Besties
01:27:36
[Music]
01:27:38
are my dog Tak
01:27:40
[Music]
01:27:42
driveway oh
01:27:45
man we should all just get a room and
01:27:47
just have one big huge orgy cuz they're
01:27:49
all this useless it's like this like
01:27:51
sexual tension but they just need to
01:27:52
release somehow
01:27:57
[Music]
01:27:59
we need to get mer
01:28:04
[Music]
01:28:08
our I'm
01:28:10
going and now the plugs the all-in
01:28:13
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01:29:00
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01:29:05
on the careers page at ohal genetics.com
01:29:08
and you can follow sax x.com David saxs
01:29:12
saxs recently spoke at the American
01:29:13
moment conference and people are going
01:29:16
crazy for it it's pinned to his tweet on
01:29:17
his X profile I'm Jason kakanis I
01:29:20
amx.com Jason and if you want to see
01:29:23
pictures of my bulldog dogs and the food
01:29:24
I'm eating go to instagram.com Jason
01:29:27
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