00:00:00
this is very good news for Cinema what
00:00:01
just happened in the last couple minutes
00:00:03
kirston Cinema has been declared the
00:00:05
winner this is the first time that a
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Democrat will have won a senate seat in
00:00:10
Arizona since 1976 the first woman ever
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to serve as senator in Arizona so it's a
00:00:16
very big deal censured by the Arizona
00:00:19
Democratic party Kiren Cinema announcing
00:00:22
she's leaving the Democratic party she's
00:00:24
going to be leaving the Senate if you
00:00:26
ever meet someone with whom you agree
00:00:27
100% either they're a liar or you're not
00:00:30
thinking for yourself ladies and
00:00:32
Gentlemen please welcome Senator
00:00:35
Cinema thanks for coming absolutely
00:00:38
thank you for being
00:00:40
here how are you hey good to see
00:00:45
you all right well I think you uh heard
00:00:50
JD I listen to some of it you listen to
00:00:53
some of it you caught some yeah I listen
00:00:54
to the whole thing what's your take on
00:00:55
JD and um you know if he were to be
00:00:59
called called on to be president which
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is the the nature of that job uh God
00:01:04
forbid for whatever reason um how do you
00:01:06
think he would do as president well
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first let me say JD and I have been
00:01:10
friends for quite some time you know we
00:01:11
sered together in the Senate we have a
00:01:12
great relationship we don't agree on
00:01:14
everything um what I really appreciate
00:01:16
about JD is that it doesn't bother him
00:01:19
that we don't agree on everything right
00:01:21
I know that sounds strange but not here
00:01:24
right I mean yeah obviously you guys um
00:01:28
there's this this thing that I think is
00:01:31
kind of disturbing that's happened in
00:01:32
American politics and it's this idea
00:01:34
that you either have to agree with
00:01:35
someone 100% of the time or they are
00:01:37
your mortal enemy and must be destroyed
00:01:39
right and the two parties actually talk
00:01:41
about each other in this like
00:01:43
existential threat way right like the
00:01:45
only way the country will be safe is if
00:01:47
we completely eliminate the existence of
00:01:49
the other party but if you think about
00:01:50
that that's actually incredibly
00:01:52
dangerous right yeah it's incredibly
00:01:54
dangerous to have one party yes it's
00:01:57
called China and Russia exactly that's
00:01:59
exactly right so what we really want in
00:02:01
this country I what I really want is a
00:02:03
robust Marketplace of ideas and not only
00:02:06
the idea that you can tolerate that
00:02:08
someone else has an idea different than
00:02:09
your own but that you can welcome the
00:02:11
idea that someone has a different idea
00:02:13
than your own because you might I know
00:02:15
this sounds crazy learn from that other
00:02:17
idea and over time change or grow your
00:02:20
opinion it's an opportunity and so
00:02:23
that's one of my favorite things about
00:02:24
JD is that he and I have areas where we
00:02:27
share opinion very closely and we have
00:02:30
areas where we don't share the same
00:02:31
opinion and it's not a problem at all
00:02:34
like we're both comfortable with the
00:02:35
idea of difference of opinion I think
00:02:37
that's core to the idea of who you want
00:02:40
in a leader why has that
00:02:43
happened so why why have we found
00:02:45
ourselves in a place where we are
00:02:46
intolerant of the other party's ideas
00:02:49
and we are intolerant of members of the
00:02:50
other party well what's D what's Driven
00:02:53
this change the I will say that the term
00:02:55
we doesn't apply to me obviously um like
00:02:58
because when people told me to do that I
00:03:00
was like yeah no I'm not going to do
00:03:01
that at all and um they were like you're
00:03:03
excused and right so and for those who
00:03:06
don't know your background you left the
00:03:08
Democratic party that's right and as a
00:03:10
as a as a sitting Senator yes right yes
00:03:13
that's right um because I think you
00:03:15
should have your own
00:03:16
opinion I'm pretty straightforward yeah
00:03:21
and so how does that how does that phone
00:03:23
call go do you call Chuck and say I have
00:03:26
something to tell you or or actually
00:03:27
more importantly joking aside how did
00:03:29
that Evolution happen for you so you
00:03:31
started out you're in Arizona you start
00:03:34
out as a clear Democrat that wins you
00:03:35
the actually so turn back time um great
00:03:39
song um when I first ran for office very
00:03:43
young like in my 20s I ran as an
00:03:45
independent and I came in dead last yeah
00:03:48
um and then I re-registered as a
00:03:49
Democrat ran for the same office came in
00:03:51
first and then you fast forward changed
00:03:54
nothing meaning in terms of what you
00:03:56
said my hair changes all the time but
00:03:57
apart from that nothing changed right so
00:04:00
uh re-registered as a Democrat came in
00:04:02
first served in the state house for
00:04:04
seven for six years served in the state
00:04:06
senate for a term ran for the US
00:04:08
Congress won a competitive District
00:04:10
slightly more Republican than Democrat I
00:04:12
won I served in that seat for six years
00:04:15
ran for the Senate became the first
00:04:17
woman ever to win a senate race in
00:04:19
Arizona
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um more importantly I was the first
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member of of at the time the Democratic
00:04:27
party in over 30 years to win a senate
00:04:29
SE in Arizona um but I was never a
00:04:31
traditional Democrat and those who've
00:04:33
known me for a long time have always
00:04:34
known that that I just am not interested
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in fitting into a box and never have
00:04:38
been and so I've always been me um there
00:04:41
came a point where me being me no longer
00:04:45
fit within the Democratic party and they
00:04:47
were really uncomfortable having me in
00:04:49
the party and so I made it easier for
00:04:52
them by leaving and it made everyone
00:04:53
happier um I was a lot happier cuz I was
00:04:56
being more genuine um but what what
00:04:59
dides that mean just double click into
00:05:00
you being you what is that that was that
00:05:02
made them so uncomfortable well I'll
00:05:06
give you an example my my first vote in
00:05:08
the United States Senate was a vote on
00:05:11
the issue of Israel and I got a call
00:05:14
from at the time minority leader Chuck
00:05:17
Schumer and he asked me to vote no on on
00:05:21
the measure and I said well there's zero
00:05:24
chance I'm voting no on this measure
00:05:26
this is a this is a vote to stand with
00:05:28
Israel like the I vote no is a hard
00:05:34
zero he was like ah this is partisan and
00:05:37
we got to be a unity and and I don't
00:05:39
like I'm not going to share the details
00:05:40
of that conversation but it was a it was
00:05:41
a partisan conversation and for me I was
00:05:44
like this I'm I'm confused about the
00:05:45
nature of this conversation because the
00:05:47
idea that I'm going to change my vote
00:05:49
because someone else wants me to is
00:05:51
never going to happen right the only
00:05:53
thing that would cause me to change my
00:05:55
vote is to get new information that
00:05:57
changes the calculus for my decision
00:05:59
right cuz that's a sign of growth and
00:06:01
learning is if you get new information
00:06:03
right there was no new information it
00:06:06
was just a party vote and I said yeah
00:06:08
well I don't need to go to the party
00:06:09
like I'm going to vote the way that I
00:06:11
believe and um for me that didn't seem
00:06:14
like a particularly important moment
00:06:16
it's just how I am but it that that was
00:06:19
problematic for other people is there a
00:06:21
lot of pressure in the way that politics
00:06:24
happens on the ground which is a lot of
00:06:27
you in the Senate may come to a
00:06:29
conclusion or an opinion but before that
00:06:31
vote is cast there's just on both sides
00:06:33
tremendous pressure to reassign whatever
00:06:36
you underwrote it almost hey it doesn't
00:06:38
matter now we got to tow the party line
00:06:40
is there a lot of that yeah I mean the
00:06:42
the biggest example of that would be
00:06:44
what I think is the most important vote
00:06:45
I've ever taken in my entire life and
00:06:47
that was the vote to protect the
00:06:49
filibuster the the pressure around that
00:06:52
vote was severe me want to explain that
00:06:54
to folks just uh yeah so the filibuster
00:06:57
is a provision in the United States
00:06:58
Senate it's a rule it's not
00:07:00
constitutional but it's a rule that
00:07:02
requires that any major piece of
00:07:03
legislation any policy related
00:07:05
legislation requires the approval of 60
00:07:08
Senators rather than 51 right so a super
00:07:11
majority in order to move forward to
00:07:13
debate discuss and pass the piece of
00:07:15
legislation now there are some people
00:07:17
who hate the filibuster because they
00:07:18
like to have all the power when they
00:07:19
have the power and I think it's very
00:07:22
dangerous to eliminate the filibuster
00:07:23
the filibuster is like a control
00:07:25
mechanism that keeps the Senate from
00:07:27
ricocheting back and forth between the
00:07:29
wild edges of the political pressure
00:07:31
from either party now some people will
00:07:33
say well the the filibusters knew it
00:07:35
wasn't always around well that's true
00:07:38
because when the Senate was founded it
00:07:40
took a hundred Senators to move forward
00:07:42
on a piece of legislation right a 100
00:07:45
and it's eroded down to 60 I believe it
00:07:47
would be very dangerous to eliminate
00:07:49
that and allow it to be a simple
00:07:51
majority the Senate would become the
00:07:52
house and for God's sake I served there
00:07:54
for six years there's a reason I went to
00:07:55
the Senate
00:07:57
right the idea is that the Senate is a
00:07:59
place that represents all of the views
00:08:01
of the country including areas that are
00:08:04
rural or small or have been left behind
00:08:06
minority opinions must be protected and
00:08:09
celebrated in the United States Senate
00:08:11
but there was intense pressure intense
00:08:13
pressure to eliminate the
00:08:15
filibuster now the thing that's
00:08:16
interesting is that pressure had zero
00:08:18
impact on me yeah like zero none and
00:08:23
people thought it was going to they were
00:08:24
like oh we're going to get her we're
00:08:25
going to get her and I just was like
00:08:27
sure I'll go to Every meeting you'd like
00:08:28
and I'll I went to every single meeting
00:08:30
I listened to everyone no one ever gave
00:08:32
me any information that led me to think
00:08:36
it would be a good idea to get rid of
00:08:38
the last vestage of bipartisanship in
00:08:40
the United States Senate is there
00:08:44
a knowing what you know now um is there
00:08:48
a path out of this I mean and how much
00:08:51
more toxic has it gotten over the years
00:08:54
yeah and why and why we didn't get to
00:08:56
the why like what's what's Driven the
00:08:59
extreme partisanship the the the
00:09:01
inability to have dialogue the the lack
00:09:04
of the idea cauldron like what's well it
00:09:06
has gotten a lot worse I mean I've been
00:09:08
doing this for 20 years and obviously
00:09:09
started in elementary school but um I've
00:09:12
been doing it for a long time and it has
00:09:14
gotten it has gotten much more severe
00:09:16
much more partisan uh you know there are
00:09:18
a number of factors for that um but I
00:09:21
think a large part of it is that we as
00:09:23
Americans we all of
00:09:25
us are choosing people who agree with
00:09:29
100% of the time because it feels good
00:09:32
even if those individuals don't get
00:09:34
done like they don't return any results
00:09:36
but they will make a Tik Tok telling you
00:09:38
how your view is so right and and and
00:09:41
it's now become out of favor to support
00:09:43
someone with whom you agree with only
00:09:45
60% of the time when the reality is is
00:09:48
that if you find someone with whom you
00:09:49
agree with only 60% of the time they're
00:09:52
thinking for themselves and so are you
00:09:54
but if you find someone with whom you
00:09:56
agree with 100% of the time either
00:09:57
they're lying to you or you're not
00:09:59
thinking for yourself and those are two
00:10:01
very dangerous things both very
00:10:03
dangerous so it has gotten more and more
00:10:05
extreme because our political system
00:10:08
rewards those who say the things that
00:10:10
are not true in order to get the
00:10:12
Applause and the likes and the support
00:10:15
money Etc and punish those who say the
00:10:18
things that are true but are not
00:10:20
everything you want you know does that
00:10:22
mean that democracy eventually dies no I
00:10:25
don't think so our country's been
00:10:26
through much worse I mean we had a civil
00:10:27
war it it I do think it gets worse for a
00:10:30
while before it gets better you know and
00:10:32
to Jason's question how does it get
00:10:33
better well I think it gets really bad
00:10:36
um and then when it gets pretty bad
00:10:37
people are like oh we got to do
00:10:39
something like this is our only country
00:10:41
and then you know it kind of comes back
00:10:43
is that this moment now yeah no I don't
00:10:45
think we're there yet uh what what what
00:10:47
play out the scenarios here commo wins
00:10:50
Trump wins we spend another 8 trillion
00:10:53
in debt and we and how many more cyes
00:10:56
cares about debt neither party cares
00:10:58
aboutt let's be honest
00:11:00
on both sides yeah but which means it's
00:11:04
going to happen so we're sitting here
00:11:06
maybe two more Cycles from now and we've
00:11:08
put another 15 trillion down you know on
00:11:11
this and then when does it break what is
00:11:13
the what is the um um impetus to make
00:11:17
that change when does it break down when
00:11:18
do we hit rock bottom sure I know the
00:11:21
answer to that and anyone who tells you
00:11:22
they do is probably lying because what
00:11:23
are the possibilities that you see from
00:11:25
inside the machine of this really
00:11:27
breaking yeah there are some challenges
00:11:29
head right I mean uh Congress spends
00:11:31
like a drunken sailor with no thought
00:11:33
for the future we are running to the
00:11:35
tape on ISS on on being able to fund
00:11:38
things like Social Security and Medicare
00:11:39
and Congress is doing nothing to solve
00:11:42
it right there's actually a little
00:11:43
Coalition of us who are trying to solve
00:11:45
those problems um Cassidy Senator
00:11:49
Cassidy Senator King myself and when we
00:11:51
went to go talk to our colleagues on
00:11:53
both sides of the aisle they were like
00:11:54
no let's wait till after the election
00:11:57
yeah that's totally going to make it
00:11:59
better right like things are going to be
00:12:00
totally good after the election like
00:12:02
they're just putting off that which is
00:12:04
uncomfortable because the solution to
00:12:06
those fiscal problems require sacrifice
00:12:09
in the short term and elected officials
00:12:11
are not willing to sacrifice anything in
00:12:12
the short term because it means that
00:12:14
they may not get re-elected and if their
00:12:16
number one goal is to survive then
00:12:18
they're not going to make the hard
00:12:19
decisions can we talk about that for a
00:12:20
second can you just explain to us the
00:12:23
underbelly of Politics the money in
00:12:25
politics the people that you have to um
00:12:29
time with how the money Cycle Works how
00:12:32
did you feel that pressure if it all
00:12:34
even if I'm not saying you responded to
00:12:35
it but maybe just to explain to it well
00:12:37
it does take millions and millions and
00:12:38
millions of dollars to run for office I
00:12:40
mean a senate seat in Arizona is like
00:12:42
what $150 million um so so you you do
00:12:46
need a lot of help sorry to win this to
00:12:47
win a senate seat it's 150 million bucks
00:12:49
in Arizona not yeah in Arizona but there
00:12:51
are some states in which it probably
00:12:53
cost you know way less because it's not
00:12:55
competitive but in a competitive State
00:12:57
you know it's going to be very very
00:12:58
expensive
00:13:00
but you know I look there is always
00:13:02
pressure to raise the money but you can
00:13:04
go about it however you want to go about
00:13:05
it most people go about it the easy way
00:13:08
which is to just kind of Follow The Line
00:13:10
that the party has given and then the
00:13:12
machine lines it up to give you the
00:13:13
money if you choose not to follow the
00:13:15
line then which is the path that I took
00:13:19
then you have to find folks who are also
00:13:22
unusual and don't fit easily into a
00:13:24
party line that's support that's a very
00:13:27
important thing you're saying so
00:13:28
essentially is if you inform which means
00:13:30
that in those times where you get the
00:13:32
phone
00:13:33
call you have to basically tow the line
00:13:36
otherwise the money spigot stops is that
00:13:38
right or no is that is it not that
00:13:40
drastic I mean it was that drastic for
00:13:41
me after the filibuster vote everyone
00:13:43
was like we hate you clunk um and I was
00:13:46
like right but I am protecting democracy
00:13:48
so call me back later
00:13:51
click um they had not called back
00:13:55
um that day is coming guys um so the way
00:13:59
you're framing it though I think is
00:14:00
maybe not exactly correct because what
00:14:02
you're saying is you have to do the
00:14:04
party line thing in order to stay in the
00:14:06
thing that that I think it's important
00:14:07
to remember is most people want to do
00:14:09
the party line thing right it's not like
00:14:10
they're sitting around going like oh I
00:14:12
really don't want to vote this way but I
00:14:13
really feel like I have to to save my
00:14:15
career there's this thing about being
00:14:17
part of the club people want to be part
00:14:19
of the club and so it's not like the
00:14:21
thumb is you know being pushed down on
00:14:24
lots of people to get them to do a
00:14:25
certain thing they're doing it because
00:14:27
they're part of the club does that make
00:14:29
sense right it it makes sense I don't
00:14:32
understand that me either obviously but
00:14:34
I get it so first of all I want to say
00:14:37
that I wholeheartedly agree with you
00:14:39
about the need to have a free
00:14:40
Marketplace of ideas where people can
00:14:41
debate these issues without any fear of
00:14:43
reprisal and um I think it's sentiments
00:14:46
like that that made me support you as
00:14:49
when you know you were a senator and a
00:14:51
Democrat people may be surprised to find
00:14:53
out that actually we we co-hosted an
00:14:55
event with you a few years ago uh cuz I
00:14:58
look for opportunities to support
00:15:00
Democrats when I can when they're
00:15:02
independent minded so
00:15:04
I DAV always appreciate that about you
00:15:06
so um for that yeah that's exactly weast
00:15:09
um I want to go back to the first year
00:15:12
of the the Biden Administration 2021 and
00:15:15
I don't know if people remember but that
00:15:17
whole year uh domestic politics was
00:15:20
royed by a piece of legislation called
00:15:23
build back better this is a $4.5
00:15:25
trillion spending package that actually
00:15:28
originally was six remember a six trilon
00:15:31
like that's like Bonkers they yeah they
00:15:34
brought it
00:15:34
down six and uh whatever whatever yeah
00:15:39
and um you know it it eventually failed
00:15:42
because every Republican voted against
00:15:44
it uh and two Democrats you and Senator
00:15:46
Mansion voted against it as I
00:15:53
recall the the thing that always seemed
00:15:55
really crazy to me is you know beyond
00:15:57
just the sheer amount of this spending
00:15:59
package which now everyone looks at the
00:16:00
deficit in the debt and they're like you
00:16:02
know it's already crazy enough as it is
00:16:05
without that having passed imagine if it
00:16:06
did pass yeah um and our economy can you
00:16:10
imagine yeah it would it would have been
00:16:12
a total disaster I think um and but the
00:16:16
the the amazing thing to me was that we
00:16:18
had this year-long debate in Washington
00:16:21
and they never just came to you and
00:16:24
Mansion at the beginning of the process
00:16:26
and just said what are you guys willing
00:16:27
to do because you were the swing votes
00:16:28
right right and instead they spent a
00:16:31
year like pushing for this thing and
00:16:33
then I guess they expected to kind of
00:16:34
jam it through at the end put enough
00:16:36
pressure on you to vote for this I
00:16:38
actually had this discussion with um
00:16:40
Schumer and the White House in the
00:16:42
summer of 21 so um I'm sure all of you
00:16:45
remember all this you know because this
00:16:46
is what you do in your lives is think
00:16:48
about the work that I'm doing in the
00:16:49
United States Senate but um in February
00:16:52
of 2021 after we passed um that a big Co
00:16:57
package which you know we passed a
00:16:59
pretty sizable Co package I was worried
00:17:01
that it wasn't paid for I was worried
00:17:03
about the impact this would have on the
00:17:04
economy turns out all that was right um
00:17:07
I went to Schumer right the day after
00:17:09
that and said look I know that you want
00:17:11
to do infrastructure next and I want to
00:17:13
do infrastructure because infrastructure
00:17:15
is really important for the future of
00:17:16
economic growth and competitiv in our
00:17:18
country but I want to do it in a
00:17:19
bipartisan way because this is that
00:17:21
that's what we should be doing in the
00:17:23
Senate and he said something to me along
00:17:25
the lines of we'd love to have the
00:17:26
Republicans with us if they'd like to
00:17:27
come that'd be great and was like well
00:17:29
see my idea of Byers ship is a little
00:17:31
bit different it's more about the sit
00:17:33
down and work together and create
00:17:34
something together and then have a
00:17:35
product that you put up together rather
00:17:37
than just building it and asking someone
00:17:38
to come and jump on your train and so um
00:17:41
you know people just kind of Pat patted
00:17:43
me on the head and I went out and
00:17:45
started working with Rob Portman who has
00:17:47
since retired but let me tell you what
00:17:49
super smart very nerdy great with a
00:17:51
spreadsheet right like I was like that's
00:17:53
my guy right there and so Rob and I
00:17:56
began working quietly Just the Two of Us
00:17:58
um doing nuts and bolts of like how to
00:18:00
build an infrastructure plan after we
00:18:02
gained some steam we began inviting
00:18:04
others so it ended up that we had a
00:18:07
really carefully curated group of five
00:18:09
Dems and five Republicans all moderates
00:18:12
and conservatives working on
00:18:14
infrastructure and we began we we got to
00:18:16
a place where our infrastructure bill
00:18:18
was going to go you all may recall we
00:18:19
actually we actually got it done um and
00:18:22
it was paid for but while we were almost
00:18:26
at the point of voting on the
00:18:28
infrastructure pack package that's when
00:18:29
the White House unveiled build back
00:18:31
better and I actually put out a public
00:18:34
statement which is very rare for me
00:18:36
saying there's no way I'm going to vote
00:18:37
for that package because it cost eight
00:18:40
bazillion dollars and it was
00:18:41
irresponsible and oh they were so pissed
00:18:43
off they're like why did you say that
00:18:45
I'm like well I think it's important for
00:18:47
everyone to know that there's zero
00:18:48
chance I vote for that and I want to say
00:18:50
it now so I don't get jammed later right
00:18:53
CU I would rather disappoint people
00:18:54
today rather than disappoint them the
00:18:56
day of the vote I want them to know I
00:18:58
will never vote for this
00:18:59
and the pressure just grew from there
00:19:01
didn't work obviously um because there
00:19:03
was zero chance in which I was going to
00:19:04
vote for $4 half trillion dollars of new
00:19:06
taxes many of which are being debated
00:19:08
right now in the presidential campaign
00:19:10
and which are Bonkers um and so I I just
00:19:13
I said no I said no early on so I did
00:19:16
start engaging with the white house
00:19:17
after that and they said well what would
00:19:19
you vote for and I said here and I
00:19:22
created a spreadsheet and I said here
00:19:24
are all the tax policies that you're
00:19:25
interested in here are the ones that I'm
00:19:28
willing to consider it was a small list
00:19:31
and they just didn't believe me for a
00:19:34
long time it took a year took about 14
00:19:37
months 14 months later they believe me
00:19:40
when I said here are the policies I will
00:19:41
support here are the ones I will not
00:19:43
support but it took 14 months before
00:19:45
people believed that I meant what I said
00:19:47
about tax policy we um when JD was up
00:19:50
here um and thank you for that work by
00:19:52
the way and that uh Independence um It
00:19:56
just strikes me before you move on Jason
00:19:57
that we could have voided so much ranker
00:20:00
over the first one to two years of the
00:20:03
Biden Administration if they just
00:20:04
listened to you because you were trying
00:20:06
to find what I said you were trying to
00:20:07
find you know it was a very it was close
00:20:09
to a 50/50 senate or I guess it was a 50
00:20:12
it was 5050 5050 it was 50/50 right so
00:20:14
it's not like President Biden had an LBJ
00:20:17
like mandate to push through massive new
00:20:20
spent tax times and uh so in any event I
00:20:23
just it's always seemed crazy to me that
00:20:25
they didn't listen to you and they
00:20:27
didn't try and find that bipartisan
00:20:29
compromise very early on we could have
00:20:32
avoided you know so much of of this um
00:20:36
you know the this again the ranker but
00:20:38
here's the thing David um and then I
00:20:39
want to get to your point but look both
00:20:41
parties do this so I I don't want it I
00:20:43
don't want to sound like I'm just you
00:20:44
know all over Biden and Schumer
00:20:46
because look when Trump was president
00:20:48
and he controlled all the chambers he he
00:20:50
did the same thing so there's there are
00:20:52
no there's no Purity here right when one
00:20:55
party has total control they over use it
00:20:59
that is what happens because when a
00:21:01
party gets power they think they're
00:21:03
going to have it forever they overreach
00:21:05
and then the system corrects and so one
00:21:08
might suggest just maybe suggest that a
00:21:10
small amount of humility would help here
00:21:12
to think that perhaps when you do have
00:21:14
power you may not always have power and
00:21:16
that it would be good and it would serve
00:21:18
you well to always consider other
00:21:20
people's positions minority positions
00:21:21
even if they are not the same as your
00:21:23
own because there will come a time when
00:21:25
those individuals have the power and
00:21:27
that perhaps if you're interested in
00:21:28
like having some stability and
00:21:30
predictability in our country that
00:21:32
finding that more moderate ground is
00:21:34
always good regardless of which parties
00:21:36
in power that's very unpopular what I
00:21:38
just
00:21:39
said
00:21:42
um I'm
00:21:44
curious um when we look at this
00:21:46
two-party system if there is a way out
00:21:48
of it and to maybe create a little bit
00:21:50
more choice for um and a little bit more
00:21:53
uh competition and and have a a viable
00:21:56
third party actually you uh explained in
00:21:59
the last panel how you know Kennedy to
00:22:01
Trump and you know uh Cheney to uh kamla
00:22:05
it's very strange times we're living in
00:22:07
and most of us don't feel that either
00:22:09
party represents us fully sax doesn't
00:22:12
believe with these neocons starting Wars
00:22:14
everywhere Etc so is it possible for us
00:22:16
to have a viable third party because you
00:22:18
seem to be also
00:22:20
partless and which I'm fine with party
00:22:23
one is great guys I love it party one
00:22:25
sit at the bar just perfect yes I love
00:22:28
it it's great too um the nice thing
00:22:31
about being a party of one is you get to
00:22:32
have the entire platform to yourself
00:22:34
like if people are like what's your
00:22:36
party platform well I made it up because
00:22:37
it's all my ideas it's wonderful um so
00:22:41
you know there was an attempt this year
00:22:42
to try and create a third party option
00:22:45
the group No Labels with whom I have a
00:22:46
great relationship with and a lot of
00:22:48
respect for um worked on it the it the
00:22:51
time is not ripe for that that was
00:22:52
obvious like why is this I'm not right I
00:22:54
don't I don't know that I can answer
00:22:56
that for you um my ass mment is that
00:23:00
many people in America are so scared of
00:23:02
what the other party represents and the
00:23:04
potential overreach that comes from the
00:23:06
other party's positions and the story
00:23:08
that has been created that the existence
00:23:10
of the other party is an existential
00:23:12
threat to the future of our country like
00:23:14
that's a story that both parties tell I
00:23:16
I think because of that most Americans
00:23:19
are they're dissatisfied with the
00:23:21
parties but they don't feel confident or
00:23:24
comfortable enough to go somewhere else
00:23:26
because they're not sure what it will
00:23:27
bring and the fear of the other is at an
00:23:30
all-time high I'm curious in this
00:23:32
audience putting this election cycle
00:23:34
aside how many people would like to see
00:23:35
us have a third or fourth option a third
00:23:37
or fourth party raise your hand okay
00:23:39
that's like everybody in the audience
00:23:41
like I don't un L parties one what's up
00:23:44
a lot of parties have won yeah I mean I
00:23:46
think more americ R got 19% it looked
00:23:49
like uh Bobby Kennedy had at the peak
00:23:51
what 15
00:23:53
20 yeah I mean it it does seem like and
00:23:56
and people really wanted no labels to
00:23:57
put up Mansion maybe yourself or no no
00:24:00
no I'm
00:24:01
overqualified
00:24:03
what would you would you what's next for
00:24:06
you are you going to consider running or
00:24:09
you want to be in the private sector you
00:24:10
just want to excited about what's
00:24:13
happening in the private sector right
00:24:14
now I mean we've got Industries in this
00:24:16
country that are really pushing the edge
00:24:18
on what's going to ensure that we're
00:24:20
globally competitive and Innovative for
00:24:21
the future and I'm really excited about
00:24:24
it and I I believe that regardless of
00:24:28
what's happening in government because
00:24:29
as I mentioned earlier I do think it's
00:24:30
going to get worse gridlock going to get
00:24:32
tougher and blah blah blah people are
00:24:34
not interested in solving problems
00:24:35
they're disinterested and ticktock and
00:24:38
so um there there's a real opportunity
00:24:41
to move our country forward despite the
00:24:44
gridlock in government through Private
00:24:47
Industry and that's where I want to work
00:24:50
why why are the Democrats so anti-
00:24:52
capitalist I I don't understand because
00:24:53
that's where the money comes from yeah I
00:24:55
just don't understand spent of being so
00:24:58
either yeah you know I am um I'm fairly
00:25:02
libertarian I think you know just at my
00:25:04
base most arizonans are
00:25:08
um I I I I struggle with the idea of
00:25:12
wanting to eliminate the Private
00:25:14
Industry because that is where the ideas
00:25:16
come from that's where the Innovation
00:25:17
comes from and that's where the money
00:25:19
comes from to fund the social programs
00:25:21
that are important to prot country was
00:25:24
built on yeah this country had nothing
00:25:27
250 years ago and the ability to
00:25:30
innovate the opportunity for
00:25:31
entrepreneurs to build and for people to
00:25:34
partake in that created productivity
00:25:36
gains and ultimately prosperity for
00:25:37
everyone and it makes no sense to stall
00:25:39
it it just doesn't make any sense like I
00:25:42
don't understand it do you um when you
00:25:45
look at the Israel Palestine conflict
00:25:47
has any of this was it is this expected
00:25:50
the way that this there's this fissure
00:25:51
that's built in America now the fissure
00:25:53
that's been created in West growing um
00:25:56
it's been growing you know I'm I'm quite
00:25:57
close with the pro is community not just
00:25:59
in Arizona but nationally because Israel
00:26:00
is our only Democratic partner in the
00:26:02
Middle East and is one of the best
00:26:04
Partners to the United States and has
00:26:06
been since its Inception
00:26:11
um but anti-Semitism has long been a
00:26:14
part of our country's history and it has
00:26:16
been growing the difference is is that
00:26:18
it was kind of quie is you know it was
00:26:20
happening on campuses with the anti-bds
00:26:22
movement um it was growing um in a
00:26:24
number of circles on both the far left
00:26:26
and the far right um and and what we've
00:26:29
seen you know in in the last year um is
00:26:33
that it's now okay to say the quiet part
00:26:35
out loud what what's boggling to my mind
00:26:38
as and I don't talk about this very
00:26:39
often because it makes me sound really
00:26:41
nerdy but I actually um I actually have
00:26:43
studied genocide like I did a PhD on the
00:26:47
Rwandan Genocide right which Super nerdy
00:26:50
I know
00:26:52
but the narrative that somehow Israel
00:26:56
are the oppressors and Hamas are the
00:26:58
liberators and then there are folks who
00:27:01
are actually using the term genocide to
00:27:04
talk about the Israeli government and
00:27:05
the Israeli people is so insane like
00:27:09
that's
00:27:11
insane I
00:27:15
mean talk about the worst form of
00:27:18
gaslighting you can even imagine right
00:27:20
like it's just insane and yet it's not a
00:27:23
surprise because if you've been paying
00:27:25
attention it's been percolating and
00:27:27
growing for years
00:27:28
and folks in the pro-israel community
00:27:30
know this and they've been talking about
00:27:31
it it's just that no one was really
00:27:32
listening because it was all whisper
00:27:34
whisper whisper or just you know kids on
00:27:36
campuses but now we see happening
00:27:38
especially at these so-called Elite
00:27:40
universities where not only has the
00:27:42
pramas movement take over taken over but
00:27:45
the faculty that the folks who were in
00:27:48
responsible for the educational
00:27:51
environment have shown an unwillingness
00:27:54
to speak the truth right which I think
00:27:56
is just disturbing is there a path to
00:28:01
find a empathetic solution for the
00:28:04
Palestinians while also at the same time
00:28:07
eliminating Hamas and of getting past
00:28:10
this problem after the vast majority of
00:28:11
Palestinian people are living in an
00:28:14
environment in which they don't have
00:28:15
control over their daily lives they
00:28:17
don't get access to the food and the
00:28:19
water they need they're being used as
00:28:20
human Shields and political weapons and
00:28:23
physical weapons by Hamas and so they
00:28:26
are in just an horri horrible horrible
00:28:29
situation and so the work that we've
00:28:31
been trying to do to navigate how to get
00:28:33
relief or evacuation for those
00:28:35
individuals is really important and
00:28:37
should not be eliminated or cut off but
00:28:39
we also need to be much much more
00:28:41
careful about who we're giving the money
00:28:43
and the food and the supplies to because
00:28:45
we know that the majority of it is being
00:28:47
siphoned off by Hamas and used as a
00:28:49
weapon of War um is there a solution
00:28:51
that can protect the innocent lives
00:28:53
absolutely um is standing with Hamas
00:28:57
that solution
00:28:58
no that's like doing a rally for Isis
00:29:01
like what the
00:29:02
hell is like how did we not see this
00:29:05
like we could have just gone to Harvard
00:29:07
but how how are young people at Harvard
00:29:09
and Colombia and Yale how come they
00:29:12
can't they don't all of a sudden that
00:29:14
distinction isn't obvious to them it is
00:29:15
hard for me to understand this now I am
00:29:17
lucky enough to live in Arizona and we
00:29:20
just don't have this there's a very
00:29:22
small amount of this very small on our
00:29:24
campuses but the vast majority of
00:29:26
students in Arizona these are like
00:29:27
regular kids
00:29:28
these are not you know fancy kids these
00:29:30
are regular kids they go to regular
00:29:32
schools they live a regular life and
00:29:33
they go to a regular state school and so
00:29:36
they don't wake up in the morning and
00:29:37
think I think I want to support those
00:29:38
terrorists over there in the Middle East
00:29:40
right like and so I think there's one of
00:29:43
the problems that I see in Academia and
00:29:45
full disclosure I I have been a
00:29:47
professor at Arizona State University
00:29:49
for 21 years so I I teach I'm te I teach
00:29:53
this semester i' I've been teaching
00:29:55
non-stop for 21 years um but I teach in
00:29:58
a climate where my students are expected
00:30:01
to be triggered or whatever that word is
00:30:04
I think that's a stupid word but the
00:30:05
bottom line is this there's this whole
00:30:07
thing moving across the country where
00:30:08
we're like oh we can't have any
00:30:10
triggering conversations we can't have
00:30:11
conversations make you uncomfortable
00:30:13
that is the whole purpose of college the
00:30:15
whole idea of the university is to go
00:30:16
learn about the universe you should be
00:30:18
confronted with ideas that are different
00:30:19
than your own you should interact with
00:30:21
people who have views that are different
00:30:22
than your own you should be open to
00:30:23
learning and listening and changing and
00:30:25
growing that is the reason that you go
00:30:28
to university right and that is being
00:30:30
taken
00:30:32
away Senator Cinema thank you for being
00:30:35
with US senator Cinema
00:30:38
[Applause]
