00:00:00
Sam did you go down to the Breakthrough
00:00:01
thing this weekend the Breakthrough
00:00:03
prize was amazing it's like observing
00:00:05
exotic animals in their natural habitat
00:00:08
well a friend of mine who you hung out
00:00:09
with down there called me last night to
00:00:12
give me the breakdown on all the
00:00:13
individuals he saw and what was going on
00:00:15
with them I mean he's like I don't even
00:00:17
know how Nat and I keep getting invited
00:00:19
to this but like to say we were outclass
00:00:21
is an understatement the people at that
00:00:23
thing were what is it break rewards the
00:00:25
Breakthrough prize yeah yeah I couldn't
00:00:27
make it I got invited to sh so
00:00:29
incredible okay first of all shout out
00:00:31
to Yuri and Julia it is incredible there
00:00:33
were two moments where I cried this
00:00:37
woman goes up on stage to give an award
00:00:40
to the people that had made this
00:00:42
investment in cystic fibrosis yeah and
00:00:45
she says my child was born with cystic
00:00:48
fibrosis and then my second child was
00:00:50
born with cystic fibrosis and then my
00:00:52
second child died she said that I just
00:00:55
burst into tears and then you present an
00:00:58
award to the person that actually is
00:01:00
helping them Stamp Out the disease we
00:01:02
celebrated the people that found the
00:01:04
gene that caused Parkinson's and then
00:01:06
yeah I mean the the people at that is
00:01:08
pretty incredible it's in LA right they
00:01:11
did it in Los Angeles yeah I mean like
00:01:12
look Yuri Milner and Julia
00:01:15
Milner Zuck and Priscilla Chan and Andi
00:01:20
and so gabrian those six people are the
00:01:22
ones that organize this breakthrough
00:01:23
prize and I think it's just a modern
00:01:26
version of the Nobel which tries to
00:01:29
really shine a spotlight on people doing
00:01:31
really groundbreaking work in physics
00:01:33
and math and life
00:01:35
sciences and so you get people that have
00:01:38
just done things that are just very
00:01:41
practical and are very
00:01:44
real and I think what they do is they
00:01:46
make frankly these kinds of
00:01:49
achievements much
00:01:51
more high level in the sense that you're
00:01:53
bringing together people from Hollywood
00:01:55
and people from Silicon Valley and the
00:01:57
awareness is up and it's just incredibly
00:01:59
well produced
00:02:01
yeah it's really a cool thing to be a
00:02:03
part of but I mean seeing some of these
00:02:05
people are very intimidating I sat
00:02:07
beside Vin
00:02:09
Diesel oh really that was super cool he
00:02:13
is a super nice guy and on the other
00:02:16
side of me was someone that actually
00:02:18
saxs knows Toby emerik who's U was the
00:02:20
chairman of Warner Brothers so just
00:02:22
talking to these guys was super cool
00:02:24
moving it to Los Angeles was a great
00:02:26
movea yeah it's just I was invited I
00:02:29
couldn't make it Sor and thank you to
00:02:30
Julia and Yuri for inviting us again but
00:02:34
it's really great that they're giving it
00:02:37
the celebration it deserves and making
00:02:40
it you know like dare I say sexy and
00:02:43
cool and hip to be a scientist and solve
00:02:46
the world's biggest problems I I think
00:02:47
it's just so awesome and you're right
00:02:49
Sergey Bren Amo
00:02:52
jaie Sak Priscilla and Julia and Yuri
00:02:56
are the founders of the Breakthrough the
00:02:58
craziest thing is they give a they give
00:03:00
a youth breakthrough award so the
00:03:01
Breakthrough prize is this beautiful
00:03:03
globe and then the junior winner gets
00:03:05
like a smaller version very appropriate
00:03:08
and it was a video of this kid in India
00:03:11
who had won it a few years ago and then
00:03:14
went off to MIT and then
00:03:16
graduated and then the video is of him
00:03:18
coming back to Bangalore because his
00:03:21
sister had won it this year and he
00:03:24
presented to the sister and all I could
00:03:26
think of was this is an incredible
00:03:29
achievement by like a 16-year-old and
00:03:32
literally at the same time my
00:03:34
16-year-old was like Dad the chicken
00:03:36
tenders from door
00:03:39
Dash you get I can't find my chicken
00:03:43
fingers let your winners
00:03:46
ride Rainman
00:03:48
[Music]
00:03:51
David we open source it to the fans and
00:03:54
they've just gone crazy with it love you
00:03:56
Queen
00:03:59
Dad I said get me the spicy fries not
00:04:02
the regular cinjun fries the girl that
00:04:05
wanted freeberg did something with
00:04:07
yamaka
00:04:09
factors so it's like it's really
00:04:11
incredible and inspiring but fortunately
00:04:13
don't worry my my 16-year-old was able
00:04:16
to get the chicken tenders and
00:04:17
everything was fun oh okay good yeah
00:04:19
shut you called rerouted it
00:04:22
I can't get his chicken tenders what do
00:04:25
we do hilarious but by the way the other
00:04:28
the other thing I'll say is
00:04:30
the person that performed is really
00:04:31
amazing Charlie peth and and the reason
00:04:33
I say it is if you Google Charlie
00:04:38
peth this guy he's a young guy in his
00:04:42
early 20s I'm guessing he is so talented
00:04:44
there's all these videos of Charlie PE
00:04:46
where he'll make a random noise like
00:04:48
he'll clink a coke bottle with a fork
00:04:51
and then he'll record it and then he'll
00:04:53
put it into these digital editing tools
00:04:56
and then he'll make like a entire five
00:04:58
minute song using that as the base like
00:05:01
as the basic building
00:05:03
block the guy is so
00:05:07
talented anyways it was a very it was a
00:05:09
very cool event fantastic how are you
00:05:12
doing sax you okay buddy I'm good it's
00:05:15
good
00:05:16
start there it is folks we're back it's
00:05:19
gonna be a hell of a show let's go I got
00:05:22
to do don't waste time with your with
00:05:24
your pointless banter it's why people T
00:05:26
it in it's the banter they the banter
00:05:28
bro how you doing free bir what you got
00:05:30
a little uh scene from the movie
00:05:34
Her wow we're off to a strong start here
00:05:36
look at all these
00:05:38
contributions I got a shrug from
00:05:40
freeberg I got a gr let's get started
00:05:43
from Sachs I don't talk about my backg
00:05:45
rats let's go anything good on the menu
00:05:47
tonight shth I just want I'm coming over
00:05:48
for poker I wanted to know if there's
00:05:49
anything octopus oh so the Greek comes
00:05:53
back and you get the octopus on you get
00:05:55
the octopus I I think that Sean missed
00:05:57
you he did by the way sea experimented
00:05:59
with with some Greek cheese that you
00:06:01
grill that was pretty delicious that
00:06:03
back
00:06:04
chei a what's the plural of octopus is
00:06:07
it octopi yeah aren't they like Cent
00:06:11
creatures or something halumi yeah uh
00:06:13
you know what it's interesting you bring
00:06:15
that up I had a grilled octopus stand at
00:06:18
one of our events and somebody who is um
00:06:23
you know a
00:06:24
conscientious consumer of
00:06:26
calories Lobby me to take the grilled
00:06:29
octopus off of the menu I won't say who
00:06:33
what what wait what I got lobbied very
00:06:37
strongly not only is it deeply wrong to
00:06:39
eat all the animals that you people eat
00:06:42
and you will one day realize it or your
00:06:44
children or your children's children
00:06:45
will realize it but octopus in
00:06:47
particular have the IQ of four to eighty
00:06:50
olds they can actually sign they can
00:06:53
communicate they can solve problems uh
00:06:56
you can watch YouTube videos on this
00:06:57
it's pretty incredible they're amazing
00:06:59
creatur it's also why in the movie The
00:07:01
Arrival the future alien race is made
00:07:04
out to be seops because they're the most
00:07:07
advanced creature that's likely to
00:07:09
become a civilized form if humans didn't
00:07:11
exist I have a one-w reaction to that
00:07:15
yum delici Del yummy it's the IQ that
00:07:19
makes it taste so good oh my God that's
00:07:23
dark that's
00:07:25
dark you're saying the IQ is like the
00:07:27
spice yeah it's kind of like the fat
00:07:30
content you know it's kind of like the
00:07:31
marbling it's the marbling it's the
00:07:33
marbling of it that's dark I don't know
00:07:35
oh oh yeah by the way thanks guys yeah
00:07:37
I'm fine yeah I'm great I'm feeling
00:07:39
great yeah the tooth is healed I got the
00:07:40
Imp you look like you've been eating
00:07:42
well just only things with above are you
00:07:46
off the wovi or the what do you call it
00:07:48
well no no you know what I did was I got
00:07:50
off the wovi so I could eat more animals
00:07:53
and now I'm getting back on because I
00:07:54
feel I feel so terrible about how many I
00:07:58
was in Austin I ate every
00:08:00
let me ask question yeah go ahead if you
00:08:03
eat high IQ foods does it make you
00:08:06
smarter absolutely absolutely this is
00:08:08
why the Greeks invented so many things
00:08:10
we invented math Plumbing cities
00:08:12
democracy all the great things the
00:08:14
Greeks created comes from the fact that
00:08:17
we ate so many high IQ creatures correct
00:08:19
are you able to be vegetarian were you
00:08:20
able to find good vegetarian or veggie
00:08:23
options in
00:08:25
Austin who talking to me
00:08:28
yeah I I mean I I see a vegetable I push
00:08:31
it
00:08:31
away I'm like wait a second Jakel was on
00:08:34
a seafood diet in Austin if he saw food
00:08:37
he ate
00:08:38
it J but it's not inaccurate the
00:08:42
barbecue in Austin is so spectacular
00:08:45
Terry Black's beef ribs I had with a
00:08:48
friend of ours man they're just dynamite
00:08:51
and then the Salt Lick brisket
00:08:53
Franklin's brisk I mean it is just
00:08:55
extraordinary shout out to all my
00:08:57
barbecue folks there and sorry for
00:08:58
triggering every
00:08:59
that wasn't button down J battered and
00:09:04
barbecue sauce
00:09:06
and that took out the rib was the Bison
00:09:08
I'm sorry I was way apologies to the
00:09:10
audience it took out a tooth you know as
00:09:12
as far as I feel worth it what is a
00:09:14
bison rib taste like is it taste like be
00:09:16
man I it is it's the beef ribs are very
00:09:19
tender the bison's got a little more
00:09:20
chew to it it's a little more texture
00:09:22
yeah and and they let this thing go at
00:09:25
the Salt Lick for like 12 hours and
00:09:28
they're just
00:09:30
barbecue sauce in it forever it's a
00:09:31
little chewy and so that's what took out
00:09:33
the tooth but great job freeberg on
00:09:36
moderating episode was fantastic yes I I
00:09:39
was chomping on the bit quite literally
00:09:40
sacks to talk about some stuff chomping
00:09:42
on the bit to the point I thought I
00:09:43
shattered a tooth but I am back and I
00:09:46
have so much energy I missed you guys I
00:09:48
actually missed y'all freeberg so much
00:09:50
good stuff happening with the summit and
00:09:53
uh I'm delighted that John is doing all
00:09:55
this work you're doing all this work and
00:09:57
I can just sit back and enjoy it so tell
00:10:01
us is there an update on the summit yeah
00:10:03
you're just collecting your coupon but
00:10:05
uh yeah we had within 72 hours I think
00:10:09
we had more applications than we have
00:10:11
seats but we are still leaving
00:10:13
applications open and in the next week
00:10:15
we'll start to respond to people so
00:10:19
basically if you're interested in going
00:10:20
to the
00:10:21
summit sign up now get your applications
00:10:23
in this week apply early yeah is the key
00:10:26
yeah because it's going to be done in
00:10:28
order of when it's received
00:10:30
and they're going to start processing
00:10:31
applications this week we'd love to get
00:10:34
everyone that wants to show up show up
00:10:36
and if you went in the past your
00:10:39
registration window is wrapped up this
00:10:41
week so that's alumni automatically get
00:10:45
in alumni automatically are in and then
00:10:48
tell us about the scholarship because
00:10:49
I'm getting bombarded and everybody
00:10:51
who's an upand cominging all-in fan
00:10:53
we're going to announce it in a couple
00:10:54
of weeks so no plan yet but there will
00:10:56
be yeah we'll still do scholarships
00:10:58
because I think they were super
00:10:59
successful and helpful to people that
00:11:01
otherwise couldn't afford the ticket I
00:11:02
know it's expensive this year but the
00:11:04
reason was we actually spent a lot more
00:11:06
per person last year than people
00:11:09
actually paid for their tickets so same
00:11:11
it's less than 10 so yeah we're trying
00:11:13
to get the priced so that we can make um
00:11:15
make this thing break even and we're
00:11:17
gonna have scholarship tickets with the
00:11:19
balance great so should be awesome I saw
00:11:21
a couple speakers come in there's two
00:11:23
not talking about it yet not talking
00:11:24
about come on just can we just tell the
00:11:26
two speakers who said yes come on the a
00:11:29
not yet we do a big announ landed a big
00:11:31
speaker and I think it's gonna be
00:11:33
awesome in a week in a week we'll
00:11:35
announce a bunch together listen well
00:11:36
one thing I don't want to wait on is
00:11:37
today's docket because it is
00:11:39
unbelievable welcome everybody to
00:11:41
episode
00:11:42
175 that's right it's episode 175 of
00:11:45
your favorite podcast and the largest
00:11:48
and most listened to podcast in the
00:11:50
world officially episode 175 of the
00:11:52
all-in podcast starts right now and ah I
00:11:55
got so many feelings about this is that
00:11:57
the largest most listen to podcast in
00:11:59
the world I'm manifesting oh you're
00:12:01
manifesting I'm manifesting shth just
00:12:04
like just like is the world's greatest
00:12:06
poker player and then we watch Robo roll
00:12:09
over him is that a new word that
00:12:11
narcissists use for lying manifesting no
00:12:14
it's just like you know the world's
00:12:16
greatest poker player and then we see
00:12:17
Phil helmuth get dominated by by C Jason
00:12:20
just so you know tonight is a
00:12:22
murderer row and helmuth is flying back
00:12:25
you saw the lineup I'm very excited to
00:12:27
see what happens tonight is J and
00:12:29
coming or no yeah I mean and Robel
00:12:33
and then the world's greatest helmuth
00:12:34
playing is so great to watch it's like a
00:12:37
meta ego battle no it is and those you
00:12:40
know what's interesting two of those
00:12:41
three guys are like the most humble guys
00:12:43
you would ever meet in your life am I
00:12:46
correct in your life just you could you
00:12:48
could not be more lowkey and
00:12:50
self-effacing than Robel and for
00:12:52
how good they are and and but if you
00:12:54
were honestly going to rank the three of
00:12:56
them in a in a high stakes cash game
00:12:58
could you just hand it for the audience
00:13:00
because we are in a we're in a lucky
00:13:01
position you and I to play with these
00:13:03
three epic players in the world break
00:13:06
down how they play in a home game you
00:13:09
know like
00:13:11
ours
00:13:14
so I would say the most
00:13:18
dynamic range would probably be Robel
00:13:20
because Robel has the most experience
00:13:22
playing super super high stakes
00:13:24
cash I think is the most
00:13:31
precise
00:13:34
and like true to
00:13:36
GTO hard to exploit I mean is
00:13:39
impossible to exploit impossible doesn't
00:13:41
no no mistakes no mistakes no mistakes
00:13:43
Robel knows how to gamble in certain
00:13:45
spots knows how to be
00:13:47
unexploitable and the third player is
00:13:50
philam the third person is and hel just
00:13:53
loses his mind it is
00:13:56
so no the thing with helmuth is he's
00:13:58
made he's capable unlike anyone I've
00:14:00
ever seen a folding in spots that are
00:14:03
and and he's correct by the way I've
00:14:04
seen H fold Ace King in spots that none
00:14:07
of us would ever do it I've seen them
00:14:08
fold Kings in spots that are basically
00:14:10
impossible so Huth is able to get these
00:14:12
Soul reads on people that I
00:14:15
think are amazing yeah but look the the
00:14:20
the higher and higher the stakes get the
00:14:22
more and more I think Robel will be
00:14:25
comfortable and and will just go to
00:14:27
a Playbook that he knows and trusts
00:14:29
H I am I'm so excited to be back at the
00:14:33
game tonight all right listen the docket
00:14:36
is so great this week we got a great
00:14:37
classic all-in docket I want to start
00:14:39
with Google firing 28 employees who were
00:14:42
involved in this protest at their
00:14:44
offices we didn't think that this would
00:14:46
happen we were having a discussion on
00:14:48
the group chat on Tuesday about a dozen
00:14:50
employees engaged in stins at the
00:14:51
company's offices in Sunnyvale and New
00:14:53
York City
00:14:55
protesting the conflict in the Middle
00:14:58
East between between Israel and
00:15:00
Palestine and so they took over
00:15:03
literally took over the offices of the
00:15:05
uh CEO of Google cloud and nine
00:15:08
employees were arrested after refusing
00:15:10
to leave the protest was organized by a
00:15:11
group called No tech for apartheid and
00:15:15
they posted a bunch of clips of this sit
00:15:17
in on X those 28 employees were fired on
00:15:22
Wednesday after a quick investigation
00:15:24
the VP of Global
00:15:25
Security was pretty direct and candid
00:15:29
me this is based they took over office
00:15:32
spaces defaced our property and
00:15:35
physically impeded the work of other
00:15:36
googlers Behavior like this has no place
00:15:39
in our workplace and we will not
00:15:41
tolerate it if you're one of the few who
00:15:43
are tempted to think we're going to
00:15:45
overlook conduct that violates our
00:15:46
policies think again so what were the
00:15:49
protests about Google is uh involved in
00:15:52
a project Nimbus a $1.2 billion Cloud
00:15:54
contract with Israel's government both
00:15:57
Google and Amazon are involved in the
00:15:58
project which was announced in 2021
00:16:00
Google has denied it was doing work for
00:16:02
the military saying it was working with
00:16:05
departments like Finance Healthcare
00:16:06
Transportation there's a lot of details
00:16:08
to this but let's start with you freberg
00:16:10
since you were a googler and we've been
00:16:12
talking about the culture of Google
00:16:14
putting aside what the protests were
00:16:16
about how do you feel about protests in
00:16:20
the workplace we've talked about it
00:16:22
before here with coinbase and others and
00:16:25
then is this a distinct change in tone
00:16:29
that I'm hearing from Google that
00:16:31
they've had enough of social activism at
00:16:34
the
00:16:36
office I mean yeah there's obviously a
00:16:38
line crossed in in the the view of
00:16:43
security but I think you could look at
00:16:46
this two
00:16:47
ways you could look at this as being a
00:16:50
culture of
00:16:51
entitlement that let folks feel that our
00:16:54
employees that they have
00:16:56
permission to stage stins and behaviors
00:16:59
like this because Google is so
00:17:01
infinitely tolerant in giving employees
00:17:05
the space and the room to do whatever
00:17:08
they want to do and all of their wishes
00:17:10
and demands can be met and will be met
00:17:13
if they demand it strongly enough that's
00:17:15
one way to look at this and that that
00:17:17
culture manifested this Behavior another
00:17:20
way to look at it is that these people
00:17:22
feel so deeply strongly and passionately
00:17:24
about the issue at hand that they were
00:17:26
willing to risk their jobs and arrest
00:17:29
and they cared so deeply about an issue
00:17:31
that they think no one's paying enough
00:17:32
attention to that they're willing to put
00:17:33
themselves and sacrifice themselves for
00:17:35
it so I I want to be empathetic to that
00:17:38
point of view as well but I do think
00:17:41
that
00:17:42
there's a belief that there may have
00:17:44
been this kind of entitlement culture
00:17:47
where anytime Google employees ask for
00:17:49
stuff they get it someone told me the
00:17:51
other day how at tgfs at Google Now
00:17:54
where they do these all hands and people
00:17:55
get to ask questions this person is kind
00:17:57
of executive level they're so sick and
00:17:59
tired of how every question is all about
00:18:02
employees asking for more things that
00:18:04
they want so it's like when are we going
00:18:07
to get this bonus when are we going to
00:18:08
get this gym when are we going to get
00:18:10
this that's so much of the orientation
00:18:12
of being an employee at Google is all
00:18:14
about what Google can do for me and how
00:18:16
I can get more and that becomes what you
00:18:19
ask for it's like you give a kid
00:18:20
something you give them candy they
00:18:21
always ask for
00:18:22
candy and I think that there's certainly
00:18:25
an element of that culture kind of being
00:18:29
froed up over the years at Google but I
00:18:31
do think that this is an issue that
00:18:32
people care very passionately about
00:18:34
right now and you're seeing it all over
00:18:35
the place so certainly not in the same
00:18:38
week we had uh the Golden Gate Bridge
00:18:40
get shut down the Bay Bridge get shut
00:18:42
down as well shath your thoughts on
00:18:43
these protests and then obviously the
00:18:46
entitlement issues that freeberg alludes
00:18:49
to specifically at alphabet gooogle
00:18:52
they're two separate things and I think
00:18:54
it's important to deal with them
00:18:56
individually
00:18:58
groups of people in society in a
00:19:01
democracy should have a right to protest
00:19:03
that's absolutely fundamental and I
00:19:06
think they can raise a lot of issues
00:19:08
that could otherwise get swept into the
00:19:10
carpet when that stuff impedes the
00:19:13
public functioning of society for other
00:19:15
people then I think there's a
00:19:17
responsibility for law enforcement and
00:19:20
other people to act and make sure that
00:19:23
that is better managed so shutting down
00:19:27
an entire Bridge is not only disruptive
00:19:30
it can be really dangerous of course and
00:19:33
it can hurt your cause because then
00:19:35
people people dislike the cause because
00:19:36
it hurt them right typically what
00:19:38
happens is you're supposed to file for a
00:19:40
permit to protest and when you get that
00:19:42
there are areas that are cordoned off
00:19:44
and then people allowed to express their
00:19:45
views that's a really healthy form of
00:19:47
democracy going rogue like this will
00:19:49
only blow up in people's faces because
00:19:51
the folks that are somewhat sympathetic
00:19:53
will eventually get burned by this
00:19:55
experience and turn against them so
00:19:56
that's one set of issues I think that's
00:19:58
just people going rogue and I think that
00:20:01
you can't be tolerant of that kind of
00:20:02
chaos there should be organized protests
00:20:05
but not disorganized chaos and law
00:20:07
enforcement needs to get a control of
00:20:09
that inside of a company I think this is
00:20:11
different it's this weird thing that I
00:20:13
see which is like what I would call like
00:20:15
left-on-left violence it's like left
00:20:17
leaning people creating all of these
00:20:20
distractions and demonstrations inside
00:20:22
of left leaning organizations for not
00:20:24
being left leaning
00:20:25
enough and so it's kind of like a little
00:20:28
bit nutty because I think it actually
00:20:31
shows how totally naive these employees
00:20:33
are and what basic business
00:20:36
understanding they have the first and
00:20:38
foremost being that they are at will
00:20:40
employees these are not people that are
00:20:42
contracted players in the NBA or are
00:20:45
part of a union okay where you have
00:20:47
guaranteed employment through some
00:20:49
mechanism or some arbitration process to
00:20:51
even be let go the fact that you don't
00:20:53
even understand that you are at will
00:20:55
means that you are there because you
00:20:56
want to be there and Google allows you
00:20:58
to be there because they choose for you
00:21:00
to be there and at any point if either
00:21:01
of you break a covenant you can be
00:21:04
gone that kind of stuff I think is very
00:21:06
distracting and it just belies a poor
00:21:09
understanding of what you're there to do
00:21:11
Google is a for-profit business and they
00:21:14
are in the business of generating
00:21:16
maximum profit on behalf of their
00:21:17
shareholders they are also incentivized
00:21:21
to do that in a way that achieves a
00:21:22
mission and a set of values that the
00:21:24
majority of their employees agree with
00:21:28
and the fact that a small cohort of
00:21:30
people can try to hijack and sabotage
00:21:32
that overall direction I think is very
00:21:37
misguided saxs I I don't know if you
00:21:40
have any opinions on this I didn't see
00:21:41
anything in the docket I'm not sure if
00:21:43
you have any strong feelings here but
00:21:45
your thoughts on Google employees and
00:21:47
the protest putting aside you know the
00:21:50
the nature of the protest this could be
00:21:51
for BLM this could be for Trump's
00:21:54
indictments you could you could be
00:21:55
protesting any number of things but the
00:21:57
protesting at work is is and then Google
00:22:00
specifically which we talked about with
00:22:02
the Gemini issues and you know this
00:22:05
stuff bleeding over into product I think
00:22:06
freeberg said it really
00:22:08
nicely hey are are people actually
00:22:11
focused on products at Google anymore or
00:22:14
is the whole place just focused on
00:22:16
social issues that have nothing to do
00:22:18
with their waning apparently product
00:22:20
scent well I Google had no choice but to
00:22:23
fire these employees they were being
00:22:25
disruptive and they were trespassing and
00:22:28
Google has the business to run so this
00:22:29
is what any business would do and I
00:22:31
don't think they deserve either credit
00:22:33
or blame for taking the action they took
00:22:36
in terms of the protesters themselves I
00:22:39
think
00:22:40
that in the fullness of time we may come
00:22:43
to think of them in a slightly different
00:22:46
light and some of this reminds me a
00:22:48
little bit of of Another War the
00:22:50
protesters in another War the Vietnam
00:22:53
War where they were very disruptive in
00:22:56
some cases they trespassed in some cases
00:22:58
they got arrested they were easy to make
00:23:00
fun of in terms of what they look like
00:23:02
they were sort of unkempt unshaven all
00:23:05
the rest of that stuff they were hippies
00:23:07
and at the time people were I'd say very
00:23:10
dismissive of them or actually
00:23:13
antagonistic they were seen as giving
00:23:14
Aid and comfort the enemy and they were
00:23:16
sort of demonized but now in the
00:23:19
fullness of time we look back on that
00:23:21
war and realize that they had a point in
00:23:22
fact maybe they were right in fact maybe
00:23:25
their actions were Justified and I think
00:23:29
that how we view these protesters at
00:23:31
Google can't just be judged now I think
00:23:33
it's going to have to be judged in the
00:23:34
fullness of time based on how we
00:23:36
perceive this war in Gaza and I want to
00:23:38
make two points about why I think this
00:23:41
war will eventually be viewed as
00:23:43
Israel's Vietnam the first is that in
00:23:47
Gaza Israel faces a a gorilla style
00:23:52
force and they're in a quagmire and if
00:23:55
you read the latest news that's coming
00:23:57
out of Gaza
00:23:58
what you'll hear is that after Israel
00:24:02
has supposedly cleared an area like Gaza
00:24:04
City or con Yunis they then move South
00:24:07
Hamas has po back up again this whole
00:24:10
idea that they can clear an area has
00:24:12
been proven false it's like playing
00:24:14
whacka they basically hit Hamas in one
00:24:16
area Hamas disappears down the tunnels
00:24:19
they come back in a different area and
00:24:21
this is why you're seeing a lot of
00:24:22
Articles now in harat which is Israeli
00:24:24
newspaper saying the war in Gaza is
00:24:26
already lost you had the Wall Street
00:24:27
Journal
00:24:29
last week run an article saying that
00:24:31
Israel is winning every battle but
00:24:34
losing the war which is the again shades
00:24:38
of Vietnam here and you got to
00:24:41
understand the Wall Street Journal is
00:24:42
the most pro-israel of all the major
00:24:44
mainstream Publications I don't think
00:24:46
the W stre Journal has ever written a
00:24:47
truly critical article about Israel and
00:24:50
they describe this guacal Dynamic you
00:24:53
also have the general Gotti eisenkop
00:24:56
who's a a member of
00:24:58
the war cabinet these member of of the
00:25:00
sort of War government in Israel came
00:25:03
out and said that we can degrade Hamas
00:25:05
in Gaza but we cannot destroy it and he
00:25:08
said anyone who's telling you that we
00:25:09
can destroy Hamas is telling you a tall
00:25:12
tale and that was I think an appointed
00:25:13
reference to netanyahu's claim that they
00:25:15
would destroy Hamas and Gaza so you've
00:25:19
got shades of Vietnam in terms of it
00:25:21
being this unwinable War I think the
00:25:22
second aspect of of a similarity to
00:25:26
Vietnam is just the huge number of Civ I
00:25:28
Ian casualties you recall that in
00:25:30
Vietnam the Viet Kong tried to grab us
00:25:33
by the belt buckle they knew that
00:25:34
America had Superior Firepower so they
00:25:36
tried to get in close use ambushes booby
00:25:40
traps snipers and in response to that
00:25:43
the Americans used immense amounts of
00:25:45
Firepower and bombing to try and subdue
00:25:48
the Vietnamese and 3.4 million vietnames
00:25:52
were killed in that war according to
00:25:54
Robert
00:25:55
mcnamer the second thing that happened
00:25:57
is the Rules of Engagement in Vietnam
00:25:59
got extremely loose you took a bunch of
00:26:01
scared American Kids many of whom were
00:26:03
conscripts you drop them in a jungle
00:26:05
pretty much because they feared ambushes
00:26:07
they shot anything that moved and then
00:26:09
finally I think partly to justify this
00:26:12
you had a a dehumanization of the
00:26:16
Vietnamese that they were seen as as
00:26:18
somehow kind of subhuman in any event if
00:26:20
you watch movies about Vietnam like
00:26:22
platoon which was made by Oliver Stone
00:26:24
who was a GI in Vietnam or if you watch
00:26:28
uh stainley Kubrick's Masterpiece Full
00:26:29
Metal Jacket which was based on books
00:26:31
about Vietnam you can see these Dynamics
00:26:34
in play very vividly now turn to to Gaza
00:26:38
all you got to do is look at the miles
00:26:39
and miles of video to see it looks like
00:26:43
a lunar surface I mean even in the words
00:26:45
of Joe Biden there's been indiscriminate
00:26:47
bombing there in terms of the Rules of
00:26:49
Engagement The Rules of Engagement have
00:26:50
gotten very loose a week or two ago you
00:26:53
had the desk of those seven Aid workers
00:26:55
from the international kitchen or
00:26:58
organization and there's an article in
00:27:00
haret recently about the kill zones have
00:27:02
been set up pretty much if you come
00:27:04
within a certain invisible perimeter of
00:27:06
Israeli troops you can be shot I mean
00:27:07
those are the rules of engagement and
00:27:09
this is why there were three Israeli
00:27:10
hostages who escaped and they were
00:27:14
running towards Israeli troops and
00:27:16
yelling in Hebrew and they still got
00:27:18
shot and again this goes back to the
00:27:19
Rules of Engagement being very loose and
00:27:21
then the final piece of it is you do
00:27:23
have this
00:27:24
dehumanization going on of the
00:27:26
Palestinians you can see this in a lot
00:27:27
of the have been posted by IDF soldiers
00:27:30
so look I think that these protesters
00:27:33
their actions are going to be judged in
00:27:35
the fullness of time I think there are
00:27:38
actually good reasons to believe that
00:27:41
Israel's war in Gaza it's shades of
00:27:43
Vietnam and I think that over the long
00:27:46
term people may regard these protesters
00:27:48
in a different light right now they're
00:27:50
just seeing as being disruptive and
00:27:52
annoying and interfering but if this war
00:27:56
ends up being Israel's Vietnam which I
00:27:58
think it's on track to be again I think
00:28:01
that people may in time give these
00:28:02
protesters a little bit more credit J
00:28:05
what do you think interesting question
00:28:08
you know putting aside what they're
00:28:09
protesting about I think they knew or
00:28:13
some number of them knew they were going
00:28:15
to get fired so I think they're kind of
00:28:17
resigning by sit in and I think yeah
00:28:19
there could be nobility to that if you
00:28:22
do not want to
00:28:23
participate in supporting things in the
00:28:25
world you do not have to work at Google
00:28:27
and you can protest and you can get
00:28:30
fired and we've seen like some pretty
00:28:32
intense protests I I don't know if you
00:28:33
guys are aware of like what green peace
00:28:35
and other environmentalists did to stop
00:28:37
whing I'm sure you are aware freedberg
00:28:40
was your passion on the subject those
00:28:42
people went to jail in Japan for
00:28:44
boarding Japanese whing ships like those
00:28:47
are really intense protesters but then
00:28:49
to your point shth you know you you can
00:28:52
really hurt your cause clim act climate
00:28:55
activists have been throwing paint on
00:28:56
works of art I don't know if you've seen
00:28:57
that and and that's just infuriating
00:29:00
like I I have no tolerance for people
00:29:02
destroying works of art or attempting to
00:29:04
get attention here it is benign to sit
00:29:07
in an office and get fired so I I just
00:29:10
consider it resigning by sit in if they
00:29:12
want to do that that's fine I do think
00:29:14
there is something to Google enabling
00:29:16
all this to your point Friedberg over
00:29:18
time and and listen they were parodied
00:29:21
on Silicon Valley the TV show because of
00:29:25
how coddled and entitled people are so
00:29:27
there's a a bunch of things going on at
00:29:29
the same time and you know if you want
00:29:32
to do these intense protests you have
00:29:34
the right to do them and history will
00:29:36
judge you o over time but you need to be
00:29:38
able to pay the price in this case the
00:29:40
price is getting fired in the case of
00:29:43
like shutting down the Golden Gate
00:29:44
Bridge like you should get a fine for
00:29:46
doing that I believe and the fine should
00:29:48
be based on whatever that cost to shut
00:29:49
that bridge down um and and that's got
00:29:52
to be a serious fine and you're right
00:29:54
Cham people if there's an emergency
00:29:56
situation somebody's got to get to a
00:29:57
hospital hospital or something that's
00:29:59
what I always think about when I see
00:30:01
those things when you block streets and
00:30:02
stuff or you block airports or you block
00:30:04
these throughways there's a lot of just
00:30:07
normal everyday people trying to live
00:30:08
their life who are probably very
00:30:09
sympathetic to what yeah what you stand
00:30:12
for but when you disrupt their everyday
00:30:14
lives Andor threaten their physical
00:30:18
security they're not going to think that
00:30:20
that's worth it I'm also shocked that
00:30:23
these people actually came to an office
00:30:24
I mean these googlers I don't think
00:30:26
they've actually been to an office
00:30:27
before they probably check that their
00:30:28
badges were you know to saak to Sax's
00:30:31
point I actually would have had more
00:30:33
respect for these people if they
00:30:34
actually
00:30:35
protested the war but they didn't do
00:30:38
that they had a very discreet specific
00:30:40
claim which was that they wanted to
00:30:43
dissolve a business deal that Google had
00:30:45
to provide cloud services to the state
00:30:47
of Israel called project Nimbus and I
00:30:50
think that's such a discreet thing that
00:30:53
it's hard to understand that those 28
00:30:55
people would have even enough knowledge
00:30:58
of what that is but it sounds like a
00:31:00
cloud hosting deal well what's hosted
00:31:02
there and it could be any number of
00:31:04
things and I suspect if it's a billion
00:31:06
dollar a year deal it's many things it's
00:31:08
probably like the Israeli DMV is that
00:31:10
really what you want and I think that it
00:31:12
would have been much of a more powerful
00:31:16
thing to do to protest the actual War if
00:31:18
that's what they cared about you know
00:31:20
duve tailes nicely with the discussion
00:31:21
you all had last week about would you
00:31:23
back a not a defensive but an offensive
00:31:27
weapon company a technology company and
00:31:30
uh it seemed like you all had
00:31:32
reservations on if you would not back a
00:31:34
defensive one anybody I think reasonably
00:31:37
would back a defensive you know Dome or
00:31:40
interception of bombs coming in that's
00:31:42
an easy one but going around the horn
00:31:44
here how many of us would back a company
00:31:48
making missiles or bombs that blow
00:31:52
people up or mines would you back a
00:31:54
robot that had weapon systems on it I
00:31:58
think if you want to summarize what we
00:31:59
said last week it's like there are all
00:32:02
kinds of businesses where you'll end up
00:32:03
investing in it and over time as it
00:32:07
morphs some of us will be faced with
00:32:09
some of those decisions and it'll it'll
00:32:11
frankly depend on what is the
00:32:13
alternative in that moment so I don't
00:32:16
think
00:32:16
anybody of us are going into go and
00:32:20
build a nuclear bomb but you should not
00:32:22
be naive that if you're building nuclear
00:32:25
reactors you could end up being in a
00:32:27
situation where that thing geted into
00:32:30
into a that you either agree or disagree
00:32:32
with so this is my point is I think that
00:32:34
those kind of answers or those kinds of
00:32:38
questions are missing the nuances and
00:32:41
the nuances are very important so it's
00:32:43
impossible to answer this question in a
00:32:44
thoughtful way I think would be my my
00:32:46
honest answer okay saak any any closing
00:32:48
thoughts
00:32:49
here well I I think um chth brings up an
00:32:53
interesting point about why didn't the
00:32:56
protesters just focus on the war itself
00:32:58
rather than Google doing business with
00:32:59
Israel my interpretation of that is
00:33:01
they're trying to create a Nexus to
00:33:03
themselves meaning their employees of
00:33:05
Google they're trying to create a reason
00:33:07
for them to Stage the Sittin at Google
00:33:11
otherwise you know if they just grab
00:33:12
picket signs and were on the street it
00:33:14
would just be much less newsworthy so I
00:33:16
think they were just trying to create
00:33:17
something newsworthy here and it's kind
00:33:19
of worked in the sense that we're
00:33:21
talking about it other people are
00:33:22
talking about it so that's my
00:33:24
interpretation of that is they were just
00:33:26
trying to at the the issue in in a
00:33:29
slightly novel way but look I think that
00:33:32
they should be willing to pay the price
00:33:34
of getting fired or getting arrested I
00:33:36
mean if you're going to engage in that
00:33:37
kind of Civil Disobedience or protest
00:33:40
you should be willing to accept the
00:33:41
price and I did see some comments by the
00:33:44
googlers who got fired saying that they
00:33:46
thought they're being treated unfairly
00:33:47
by Google I think that's the wrong
00:33:49
attitude I think the attitude is hey
00:33:52
this cause is so important to me that
00:33:53
I'm willing to accept the price of being
00:33:56
fired saying that you don't deserve to
00:33:58
be fired for disrupting the workplace
00:34:00
that is kind of an entitled attitude so
00:34:03
I think they should have just said yeah
00:34:04
we did this on purpose because yeah it's
00:34:07
PR say I'm proud to get I'm proud to get
00:34:09
fired because that's how much I believe
00:34:11
in it my stock options at right Google
00:34:14
are less important than this issue to me
00:34:16
yeah and I and I'm I'm accept it I think
00:34:19
they would have gotten just as much
00:34:20
press if they actually protested the War
00:34:22
I think in a week from now everybody
00:34:24
will forget what project Nimbus is the
00:34:26
odds that it gets canel are less than
00:34:28
zero and everybody will move on and it
00:34:31
will not add to the drum beat as sack
00:34:33
said of people that may be eventually on
00:34:36
the right side of this issue
00:34:38
theoretically I say theoretically
00:34:39
because it that's that that stone is
00:34:42
still yet to be overturned on that topic
00:34:44
so I think that they missed the
00:34:46
mark and I think the the part of the
00:34:49
press that people glommed on to was it
00:34:51
was happening inside of a company in
00:34:53
real time and there was video of it
00:34:56
mission accomplished for them we're
00:34:57
talking about here as the top story and
00:34:59
uh you know if that was there if they
00:35:01
wanted to raise awareness they succeeded
00:35:04
and they should just own their firing
00:35:06
because they knew they would get fired I
00:35:07
think all right there has been a ton of
00:35:10
chaos and the culture wars continue over
00:35:13
NPR couple things happened
00:35:15
simultaneously this week that are worth
00:35:17
discussing Katherine Mah was named NPR's
00:35:20
new CEO back in January I'm gonna have
00:35:21
to give a little bit of a timeline here
00:35:23
before I get comments from the boys
00:35:26
because there's a little setup
00:35:28
and so she was named the the um CEO back
00:35:31
in January she officially started in
00:35:32
March okay she formerly worked at
00:35:34
Wikipedia Foundation those are the
00:35:36
people who run the Wikipedia obviously
00:35:39
NPR's Mission if you don't know is to
00:35:41
create a more informed public one
00:35:44
challenged and invigorated by a deeper
00:35:46
understanding and appreciation of events
00:35:48
ideas and culture that's their state ad
00:35:49
Mission from their website on April 9th
00:35:52
Erie Berliner an editor who's been with
00:35:54
NPR for 25 years wrote an oped for bar
00:35:58
bar Weiss's Free Press friend of the Pod
00:36:00
explaining how NPR lost America's trust
00:36:02
by going hard left and becoming
00:36:04
close-minded he said quote an
00:36:06
open-minded Spirit no longer exists
00:36:08
within NPR and now predictably we don't
00:36:11
have an audience that reflects America
00:36:13
last Friday Mah put out a statement
00:36:16
calling his actions profoundly
00:36:18
disrespectful hurtful and demeaning this
00:36:20
Sunday uh conservative activist
00:36:22
Christopher rufo he's uh the person who
00:36:26
exposed former
00:36:28
Harvard president's Claud and gay
00:36:29
plagiarism he's a focal critic of lgbtq
00:36:32
uh stuff at schools started reposting
00:36:35
old tweets from Mah this new CEO her
00:36:37
tweets are super far left Trump's a
00:36:40
racist yada yada there's an interesting
00:36:42
clip of her talking at Ted talking about
00:36:45
how truth is a bit of a distraction that
00:36:48
prevents people from getting things done
00:36:50
people have gotten pretty inflamed about
00:36:53
that clip and then on April 16 Berlin
00:36:58
was suspended for 5 days without pay
00:37:00
wrapping this all up Berliner then
00:37:01
resigned after 25 years saying quote I
00:37:04
cannot work in a newsroom where I am
00:37:07
disparaged by a new CEO whose divisive
00:37:10
views confirm the very problems at NPR I
00:37:13
site in My Free Press essay Sach your
00:37:17
thoughts I mean this just seems like a
00:37:19
dog bites man Story I mean what is the
00:37:22
novel Revelation here uh the person
00:37:24
running NPR is a liberal I mean I'm I'm
00:37:27
kind of with you but what took 25 years
00:37:29
to resign I mean all you have to do is
00:37:31
listen to NPR it's always been liberal
00:37:33
okay this is not some recent capture of
00:37:36
an insti why it going so crazy viral
00:37:39
right now why is this become the topic
00:37:41
of the
00:37:42
moment well apparently there are some
00:37:44
quotes that this um new CEO Katherine
00:37:48
Mar tweeted or said that you can point
00:37:51
to that seem kind of woke and kind of
00:37:55
crazy woke but they're just actually
00:37:57
pretty standard I just don't see the
00:38:00
breaking news here if they end up firing
00:38:02
Katherine Mah they're going to hire
00:38:04
someone just like her I mean they're
00:38:05
going to have the same views NPR has
00:38:07
always been left of center and the only
00:38:10
change that's happened is that the left
00:38:12
has now become woe yeah and so it's
00:38:16
become obsessively focused with the
00:38:18
ideas of white supremacy and and and
00:38:22
white privilege and she simply she
00:38:24
simply reflects that I I agree I it's
00:38:26
like a tempest and a like news flash NBR
00:38:29
is woke and left leaning I mean I guess
00:38:33
maybe that somebody who was there for 25
00:38:35
years wrote the expose is interesting or
00:38:38
I don't know jamat any thoughts on this
00:38:39
one and why it's taking up so much heads
00:38:42
space for people I don't think it is I
00:38:44
think it's taking up a lot of headp
00:38:45
space amongst breathless journalists I
00:38:48
don't think it matters to the public at
00:38:49
large I don't think anybody cares I said
00:38:51
one thing which is I do think that the
00:38:53
government should not be funding this
00:38:55
anymore I think NPR at this point is
00:38:57
mostly funded by private donations but
00:38:59
it got started with government money and
00:39:01
the government still funds it and given
00:39:04
that it is this left institution at this
00:39:08
point and and really always has been
00:39:10
there's simply no reason for the
00:39:11
government to be funding one side of the
00:39:14
political debate that way so I think
00:39:16
there is maybe an issue there in terms
00:39:18
of reminding people that hey this is
00:39:21
like government funded why and there's
00:39:23
no reason why NPR can't be funded with
00:39:26
either private donations or
00:39:28
private subscription this is uh just to
00:39:30
give people some back of the envelope
00:39:31
math NPR's budget is like 320 million
00:39:34
it's a dollar per American and they get
00:39:37
a bunch of programming fees and some
00:39:39
corporate sponsorship the corporate
00:39:40
sponsorship is like a 100 million bucks
00:39:42
the programming fees is what the local
00:39:44
radio stations play them net net this is
00:39:46
costing like maybe I don't know 30 cents
00:39:50
an American and if you just swap out and
00:39:52
this is the way I like to look at these
00:39:54
to be objective if you were saying this
00:39:55
was funding Fox News or I don't know Ben
00:39:58
Shapiro and Del wire how would you feel
00:40:00
about it you'd be like well why is the
00:40:02
government funding that they should just
00:40:03
cut NPR and all this public broadcasting
00:40:05
stuff loose over the next year or two
00:40:07
wind it down and let them fend for
00:40:10
themselves in the New Media landscape
00:40:11
look J I agree with you they could
00:40:12
easily substack it NPR's not going to go
00:40:14
away just create subscriptions and
00:40:16
you're fine yeah I mean it's only like
00:40:18
they're down to whatever it's it's it's
00:40:20
very hard to find the numbers there's a
00:40:22
little like hiding of the money here but
00:40:24
there's so little at stake here I think
00:40:25
that's why it's so contentious no
00:40:27
government should not be funding
00:40:28
one-sided ideological institutions on
00:40:31
either side of the political debate and
00:40:33
you're right if this was funding going
00:40:35
to daily wire or something like that
00:40:37
people would be up in arms so at any
00:40:40
event what's good for the good for the
00:40:41
gander the next Tempest in a teapot is
00:40:45
Humane AI pin getting barbecued by our
00:40:48
modernday W Mossberg Marquez brownley
00:40:51
who is an awesome YouTuber I love his
00:40:53
reviews and it's created a bit of a
00:40:55
social media raw shck test here
00:40:57
getting a lot of feels from people in
00:40:59
Silicon Valley let's just tee this up
00:41:01
here Humane is a hardware startup uh
00:41:03
that you may have heard of they make an
00:41:05
AI powered wearable computer it's
00:41:06
basically a pin you put on your chest
00:41:08
it's about the size of a pack of
00:41:10
cigarettes maybe half the size of it
00:41:12
founded by two apple exec back in 2018
00:41:15
raised a quarter of a billion dollars or
00:41:18
so and um the device is now in the hands
00:41:21
of reviewers it's pretty Innovative and
00:41:24
Marquez talks about how Innovative it is
00:41:26
in his review it will uh let you talk to
00:41:28
it it's got a camera on it we'll show it
00:41:31
here on the screen if you're not
00:41:32
subscribed uh to the YouTube channel
00:41:34
just go to YouTube right now and you'll
00:41:35
see us playing the video of it search
00:41:37
for Allin and um really interesting
00:41:41
interface it does obviously voice it
00:41:43
connects you to an llm on the back end
00:41:45
so if you want to know uh you know some
00:41:48
piece of information it can answer those
00:41:49
questions for you but Marquez showed it
00:41:53
just absolutely failing at a bunch of
00:41:55
tests being overpriced
00:41:58
and he called it the worst product he's
00:42:00
ever reviewed he's very thoughtful and
00:42:03
methodical but
00:42:05
the title is obviously a bit link
00:42:07
baiting as a co-founder of Eng gagger I
00:42:10
can tell you if you want to get a lot of
00:42:11
clicks just say something is the best or
00:42:13
the worst ever and you're GNA get 10
00:42:15
times the
00:42:17
views the pin uh according to him uh
00:42:21
doesn't do anything better than a
00:42:23
smartphone it's slow it doesn't work
00:42:25
it's often wrong it's 00 bucks the
00:42:28
battery sucks so many different ways to
00:42:30
go with this everybody is talking about
00:42:33
it on X and uh in the
00:42:36
media where where do you stand on this
00:42:38
one
00:42:40
freedberg both on how people are
00:42:43
responding to it in the tech industry as
00:42:45
being like anti-tech anti- Innovation
00:42:47
versus hey it's just a reviewer giving
00:42:50
his candid feedback on a product that's
00:42:52
clearly not ready for prime time I think
00:42:55
there's a lot of issues one is just the
00:42:57
challenge of deep Tech more specifically
00:43:02
in this case Hardware investing you have
00:43:04
to invest a lot of capital before you
00:43:07
even have your first product and then
00:43:09
you don't really know how well it works
00:43:11
until you've already burned through a
00:43:12
lot of capital I mean this is one of the
00:43:14
stunning stories of a startup that has
00:43:17
raised a quarter billion dollars and
00:43:19
then they come out with their first
00:43:20
product and it turns out it needs a lot
00:43:22
of work because it doesn't do anything
00:43:24
that consumers really are compelled by
00:43:27
as evidenced by the
00:43:29
review so I think it it highlights that
00:43:32
that challenge and why that market finds
00:43:36
particularly in this environment it to
00:43:37
be so hard to get capitalized now
00:43:40
obviously there are some entrepreneurs
00:43:42
like Elon who can take that capital and
00:43:47
drive to the outcome spending hundreds
00:43:50
of millions of dollars before you get
00:43:51
your first rocket into space and you
00:43:53
have a lot of failings along the
00:43:55
way but the general tone of here is a
00:43:59
deep Tech investment is very likely to
00:44:02
fail because you spend so much money
00:44:03
before you even know and at that point
00:44:05
you have less money and you can't really
00:44:06
make the necessary iteration to get
00:44:08
there so it's a tough data point for
00:44:12
other deep tech companies that need to
00:44:15
raise a lot of capital then I think it
00:44:17
brings up the point about X Apple people
00:44:19
that there's a degree of confidence
00:44:21
because people come from apple and a
00:44:24
degree of hubris in the employees that
00:44:25
come from Apple that says I have worked
00:44:28
at the best hardware company in the
00:44:30
world therefore this person is likely to
00:44:31
succeed it turns out that when you don't
00:44:33
have all that built-in infrastructure
00:44:35
for testing and optimization all of that
00:44:37
built-in distribution all of the
00:44:39
feedback systems that Apple has
00:44:41
engineered into their business model for
00:44:43
so long maybe you missed some of the
00:44:44
data around what makes a product great
00:44:46
or not before you launch I think that's
00:44:48
your key point freeberg that is the best
00:44:50
point is these folks come from Apple
00:44:53
they're used to unlimited
00:44:54
resources and what you don't see is all
00:44:57
the product Apple doesn't release right
00:44:59
they never release their car correct
00:45:01
freedberg and and they get to well I
00:45:02
think I think then there's also this
00:45:04
question about like where is the value
00:45:06
in the product because they thought hey
00:45:09
if we have ai on a pin it'll work
00:45:12
without the consumer feedback about
00:45:14
whether or not people are willing to sit
00:45:15
around and wait for 12 seconds to get an
00:45:18
answer to a question and then it it
00:45:20
brings up the risk this other really
00:45:21
important point which is half the people
00:45:23
in Silicon Valley are running
00:45:24
breathlessly into the conversation
00:45:26
saying do not disparage a startup that's
00:45:28
working really hard at getting their
00:45:30
first product right it'll destroy the
00:45:32
motivation of other startups that need
00:45:33
to kind of iterate to get there um and
00:45:36
we can't just take the first V1 and say
00:45:39
that's it Jam your thoughts you're
00:45:41
laughing hysterical at this then the the
00:45:43
other half of Silicon Valley are running
00:45:44
in and saying this thing's a piece of
00:45:46
what are you talking about it
00:45:47
doesn't work so it is a really
00:45:49
interesting kind of you know debate yeah
00:45:52
Ro shock test on what's going on what do
00:45:55
you see in this ink blot of a product
00:45:58
neither of those two cohorts I think
00:46:00
that incredibly motivated dedicated
00:46:04
entrepreneurs don't even know that this
00:46:06
is happening and don't care got it in
00:46:09
other words the reviewers uh are going
00:46:11
to review products and you just got to
00:46:13
plow ahead and make a better product the
00:46:15
idea that in 2009 10 or 11 right
00:46:20
that when all the Rockets weren't
00:46:22
working you know and Elon was back
00:46:24
against the wall that he was reading
00:46:27
Tech crunch or yeah getting upset
00:46:29
because a product failed some other
00:46:31
random product that had nothing to do
00:46:33
with his I think is laughable I think no
00:46:35
great entrepreneur cares I don't think
00:46:37
freeberg is g to change what's happening
00:46:40
at oh Hollow based on what is this thing
00:46:44
called Humane right freeberg have you
00:46:47
changed have you made decisions are you
00:46:48
sadder today in ohala when you walked
00:46:50
into the office to manage your team okay
00:46:52
so there you go there's your answer
00:46:54
matters your feeling on this yeah I mean
00:46:56
I'm having a hard understanding all the
00:46:58
controversies this week I mean reviewers
00:47:00
are going to review protesters are going
00:47:02
to protest and NPR presidents are going
00:47:03
to NPR here we go yeah what's going on
00:47:07
everyone's just doing everyone's doing
00:47:09
their job yeah here's an idea for the
00:47:11
Humane team be thankful somebody took
00:47:13
the time to review your product and give
00:47:15
you candid feedback and incorporate it
00:47:17
back into your product and make it work
00:47:20
and irreverent elitists will eat octopus
00:47:23
here we are absolutely oh so delicious
00:47:25
so delicious high IQ Foods we create a
00:47:27
new category high IQ Foods yeah what are
00:47:29
the other high IQ foodsweet acorn fed
00:47:33
beef yes for sure high IQ pigs very high
00:47:37
IQ I saw that cow playing chess before
00:47:39
he was served for dinner actually I was
00:47:43
having a p pork sandwich from bies and
00:47:46
uh it helped me solve Wordle for the day
00:47:48
before I ate it so I got Wordle in two
00:47:52
tries oh I'm so sorry that one landed
00:47:56
want that wi to
00:47:59
land yeah I mean okay let me ask this
00:48:02
question do we think the world let's say
00:48:04
this thing did respond here's the theme
00:48:06
here's the theme Jason here's the theme
00:48:08
Jason the problem is that I think people
00:48:11
right now the real Roar Shack test is if
00:48:14
you are so easily distracted you
00:48:16
probably don't have enough to do right
00:48:19
that's the entitlement is that you don't
00:48:21
have enough work on I don't want to call
00:48:22
it I don't want to call it entitlement
00:48:23
but I think the reality is that if you
00:48:25
get caught up in all of these silly
00:48:28
little fake battles or decisions I think
00:48:31
what it really means is that you're not
00:48:33
busy enough and or you're not working on
00:48:35
something that matters enough to you
00:48:36
because when either of those two things
00:48:38
are true people tend to be tend to have
00:48:41
blinders on and they are super focused
00:48:43
and they just don't have an opinion they
00:48:45
don't care like honestly many of these
00:48:47
topics today I really don't care and
00:48:49
it's not because I'm better or worse or
00:48:51
smarter or Dumber it's because I'm so
00:48:52
overworked right now I don't have time
00:48:54
to have an opinion on this stuff got a
00:48:57
CEO job and now he's got to work no but
00:48:59
and I think that anybody else trying to
00:49:00
do their job well is probably in the
00:49:02
same category H I hadn't even heard of
00:49:05
this reviewer what's his name mar mar
00:49:07
mar Marquez brownz Brown I never heard
00:49:11
if you're on YouTube he's kind of like
00:49:12
the new Walt Mossberg he he does 20 30
00:49:16
minute videos they get millions of views
00:49:19
he's huge I don't know that he makes or
00:49:21
breaks a product though by the way he
00:49:23
does not make or break a product the
00:49:24
product makes or breaks itself yeah look
00:49:26
when when I was running companies I
00:49:28
wouldn't care about what One reviewer
00:49:30
said I would care about the totality of
00:49:32
the reaction to the product which would
00:49:34
include customers as well as reviewers
00:49:37
and so forth so I don't think there's
00:49:39
any point getting too bad out of shape
00:49:41
out one review I think what's kind of
00:49:43
happening in terms of the reaction here
00:49:45
is that people want to give this company
00:49:49
like Mercy points for being Innovative
00:49:52
so my guess is the product just isn't
00:49:53
ready for prime time but everyone wants
00:49:55
to kind of like they want their
00:49:57
reviewers to take it easy on them or
00:49:58
something because they are being
00:50:00
Innovative and they're breaking new
00:50:02
ground in this this area of wearables
00:50:04
but the reality is in the real world
00:50:07
where you want to charge people for your
00:50:09
product like customers don't have mercy
00:50:11
points nope so if the car breaks down
00:50:15
the car breaks down and by the way
00:50:16
Marquez got a little bit of heat just a
00:50:18
month ago because he reviewed the Fisker
00:50:21
the Fisker is just a piece of garbage
00:50:22
car and he said it's the worst car he's
00:50:24
ever reviewed and you know what
00:50:26
reviewers exist in the world to inform
00:50:29
customers about what products and
00:50:31
services they should buy and then they
00:50:32
should inform you to make a better
00:50:34
product period full stop there is an
00:50:36
easy solution to this by the way which
00:50:38
Apple did they they released the Vision
00:50:41
Pro as a developer kit they put a bunch
00:50:44
of caveats on it and said hey we
00:50:46
understand this is high priced it's a
00:50:48
developer kit this is in beta what
00:50:50
Humane should have done is they should
00:50:52
have said this is the Humane beta for
00:50:54
developers I still don't know what it is
00:50:56
what what is this okay it's a wearable
00:50:58
it's a square it has a projector on it
00:51:01
you put your hand out it projects a
00:51:03
little screen that shows you uh like a
00:51:05
computer screen and you can talk to it
00:51:07
Prim yeah the primary function is like a
00:51:10
chat AI assistant that sits on you and
00:51:13
has a camera yeah and so you can it's
00:51:16
taping everything that it sees it
00:51:18
doesn't do that by default but it could
00:51:20
but sorry let me let me just give a
00:51:22
quick overview and basically you ask it
00:51:23
questions and it can go get the answers
00:51:26
the problem is is that it has to go make
00:51:28
a request to the Internet run an AI
00:51:30
model and come back so it takes like 12
00:51:32
seconds to get results most of the time
00:51:35
according to the reviewer the results
00:51:36
are actually wrong because it's
00:51:38
hallucinating models The Voice to Text
00:51:40
translation is wrong there's a lot of
00:51:42
things that are wrong about it so it
00:51:43
takes a long time it's clunky and then
00:51:45
the battery burns out every two hours
00:51:47
and it gets super hot because of the way
00:51:49
they get it to magnetically stick to
00:51:50
your clothes so it gets very hot so
00:51:52
there's all sort of issue and it's 700
00:51:54
bucks other than that how was to play
00:51:57
Mrs Lincoln and by the way most
00:51:59
importantly to you chth it will screw up
00:52:01
your Fabrics if you wear this with a
00:52:02
Laura Piana sweater it's going to drag
00:52:04
your sweater down you would never attach
00:52:07
it to a $6,000
00:52:08
sweater yeah it's basically what you're
00:52:10
telling me is it's an overpriced device
00:52:13
that could give you first-degree Burns
00:52:16
and it will ruin your it doesn't answer
00:52:18
the questions that you ask Bas but then
00:52:21
do I think the questions or do I have to
00:52:23
say it out loud so it looks like I'm
00:52:24
talking to myself you look like aun yes
00:52:27
you're walking around like a crazy
00:52:28
person talking that was the other thing
00:52:30
he said is like when you're in a crowd
00:52:31
and there's voice around you can use
00:52:33
your hand hand gestures to control it
00:52:35
and do things with the projector thing
00:52:37
that it does some really it's some
00:52:39
really cool interesting features it's
00:52:41
just like it's not quite there yet who
00:52:42
invested in it let's not make fun of it
00:52:44
let's make fun of the investors who who
00:52:46
invested Sam mman shout out to Sam's
00:52:49
coming on the program I
00:52:51
think uh yeah I listen I I the concept I
00:52:54
think is good wearables are going to
00:52:56
provide some distinct value when they
00:52:58
work because you don't have to take your
00:53:00
phone out and so the idea behind
00:53:02
wearables like your watch is you know
00:53:05
like there are some things I do on my
00:53:06
watch now where I don't take my phone
00:53:08
out I have I'll take the other side of
00:53:10
this I'll take the other side when
00:53:11
you're done yeah yeah I use Fitbit
00:53:13
company we invested in and it puts all
00:53:15
my workouts on my watch when I'm doing
00:53:17
weights I started doing weights now
00:53:18
that's why I look so buff folks
00:53:20
subscribe to the YouTube channel to see
00:53:22
and I do my sets and I log them all with
00:53:24
my my watch I don't have to take my out
00:53:26
that's like the first thing and then
00:53:28
when I'm skiing I can see each run I
00:53:30
showed you slopes I'm not an investor in
00:53:32
chth where I can see my speed and all
00:53:34
that you're saying something totally
00:53:35
different that's that's utility of
00:53:37
course you'll find a device will give
00:53:39
you utility I I thought you were saying
00:53:41
something else which is everybody's
00:53:42
going to have wearables and I want to
00:53:44
take the exact opposite side yeah I
00:53:47
don't know that everybody will have
00:53:48
wearables but I do find a couple of
00:53:50
little things that work for me I totally
00:53:52
get that you know the use of an
00:53:53
accelerometer or whatever in a watch or
00:53:55
in a band that you wear on your wrist
00:53:57
for a workout and I think that that's
00:53:59
valuable or heart rate a glycemic
00:54:02
monitor so that you could all of that
00:54:03
stuff Mak super sense for you as an
00:54:05
individual but that's not an experience
00:54:08
where you're engaging with it
00:54:11
to sub like to replace some other social
00:54:14
interaction that's just you getting
00:54:15
utility as you live your life what I'm
00:54:17
saying is the idea that you start to
00:54:19
rely on a device as your interface into
00:54:22
the world I would take the exact other
00:54:25
side of the BET which is I think that
00:54:26
humans are getting so sick and tired of
00:54:31
being of only communicating in these
00:54:34
very rigid ways like I'm telling you
00:54:36
like if you look at our children's
00:54:38
generation they don't know how to make
00:54:40
eye contact they don't know how to talk
00:54:42
and I think it's going to come back and
00:54:43
bite them in the ass and so I think the
00:54:45
pendulum is going to swing in the other
00:54:47
direction where it's like okay enough of
00:54:49
this stuff let's actually look each
00:54:51
other in the eye and talk to each other
00:54:53
the way that humans were meant to be and
00:54:54
I and I think that in that devices like
00:54:57
a glucose monitor or a band has value
00:55:00
but I don't think it's going to be this
00:55:01
interface where you're sign languaging
00:55:03
it while you're at Coachella I think
00:55:05
you're gonna rip the devices off and
00:55:06
actually be a Coachella without any
00:55:08
devices did any of you guys read
00:55:09
Jonathan haes book anxious generation it
00:55:12
is unbelievably awesome it touches not
00:55:14
right yet yet I stop what you're doing
00:55:16
and just listen to the audio book on
00:55:18
your walks on Audible this book is super
00:55:20
important and awesome the anxious
00:55:22
Generation by Jonathan ha I cannot tell
00:55:24
you how important it is saxs any closing
00:55:27
feelings here you have a take any hot
00:55:28
takes well I I would slightly disagree
00:55:31
with you guys about this device so so
00:55:34
first of all I think that humans are
00:55:35
becoming more and more cybernetic we're
00:55:37
getting more and more immersed with
00:55:39
computing power and I agree it creates
00:55:41
this anxiety and all these problems but
00:55:42
on the other hand I think it's an
00:55:44
irreversible Trend so I think that I
00:55:46
would not bet against things that make
00:55:48
us more cybernetic I think the problem
00:55:50
here is that this company is trying to
00:55:52
do two difficult things the first thing
00:55:55
is it's trying to capture everything
00:55:57
that's happening in the world around you
00:55:58
to feed it into an AI model so it can
00:56:00
make you smarter the other thing is
00:56:02
trying to do is reduce your dependence
00:56:04
on your phone by creating this new
00:56:07
projection surface and you know in my
00:56:10
experience when you try to do two hard
00:56:12
things you actually Square the
00:56:14
complexity and you square the difficulty
00:56:16
as opposed to adding it yes so I think
00:56:18
of these two things the one that sounds
00:56:20
interesting to me is taking in all the
00:56:22
information from the physical world and
00:56:24
putting in an AI model that can be
00:56:25
helpful to you you but I see no reason
00:56:27
to replace the phone I think it should
00:56:29
just work with your phone the problem
00:56:31
they're going to have is that that
00:56:32
pendant will compete with the Apple
00:56:35
glasses and all the other wearables that
00:56:38
are going to be created to you know suck
00:56:39
in all this information this computer
00:56:42
vision from the world nonetheless I do
00:56:45
think that is the opportunity it's not
00:56:46
replacing the phone it's layering a new
00:56:49
platform on top of the phone that can
00:56:51
kind of you know again give you that
00:56:53
Terminator mode in the real world and
00:56:56
that was a complaint about this device
00:56:57
specifically was that it was detached
00:56:59
from the phone I understand why they
00:57:00
want to make it Standalone but and then
00:57:03
this opens up all the Privacy let me ask
00:57:05
the panel here what do you think about
00:57:08
this concept of recording the entire
00:57:09
world all these conversations and video
00:57:12
with these devices I think it's a quick
00:57:13
way to get yourself punched in the face
00:57:15
I mean we saw that with Google Glass
00:57:17
people showed up at bars in San
00:57:19
Francisco and parties with these Google
00:57:20
Glass things on and literally got
00:57:22
punched in the face well this has got
00:57:24
massive privacy things recording
00:57:27
with a pant thank this is why I said
00:57:29
what I said I do think sax is right that
00:57:31
ultimately you'll have some kind of
00:57:33
brain interface because I do think a
00:57:36
chip implant of some kind is very
00:57:38
valuable but what I'm also saying is
00:57:40
that I think that that will actually
00:57:42
lessen the social acceptability of these
00:57:46
visible devices that are constantly
00:57:48
getting in between you and another
00:57:50
person and so the idea that we're kind
00:57:52
of already in a quasy surveillance State
00:57:54
and now we're going to increase that by
00:57:57
n factorial to the number of people I
00:58:00
think is very depressing it is
00:58:02
depressing and you know what in Jonathan
00:58:03
hates book he uh talks about phone
00:58:06
lockers for schools and the
00:58:08
transformative power they have had when
00:58:09
you go to a school there are some
00:58:11
schools now high schools where the
00:58:13
students put their phones in specific
00:58:15
lockers they do it they do it in my kids
00:58:16
it's it's actually Jason these special
00:58:19
pouches pouches yeah those are the
00:58:21
pouches comedians use like Chappelle at
00:58:23
his shows Chappelle use it Kevin uses
00:58:25
them yeah exactly and they're
00:58:27
great and then what what the school now
00:58:30
also teaches the kids at least our
00:58:31
school which I found really interesting
00:58:33
is the graduated form of that is they
00:58:35
actually now allow you to put it in a
00:58:38
envelope because they're training the
00:58:40
kid like the pouch you can't get access
00:58:42
to you have to go back to it locks
00:58:44
unlock device yeah and then I I saw that
00:58:47
my son last week had it actually in a in
00:58:49
a white envelope and he had to close the
00:58:51
envelope and just keep it with him as as
00:58:53
like a way of graduating from the form
00:58:56
of keeping the phone away to like you
00:58:58
know having it in your pocket so the
00:59:00
schools are trying to do a lot to try to
00:59:01
teach these kids not to be so dependent
00:59:03
on they should ban these devices at
00:59:04
schools 100% And then at the poker game
00:59:06
tonight we should make people stack
00:59:08
their phones and charge somebody a
00:59:09
thousand dollar whoever takes the phone
00:59:10
first I AG with that let's do it tonight
00:59:13
let me let me give a a shout out to one
00:59:15
of my favorite sci-fi book series is
00:59:17
called Nexus by romez Nom and it's kind
00:59:19
of this like
00:59:20
cyberpunk futuristic series but what he
00:59:23
talks about is it when we have this
00:59:25
brain computer interface you'll be able
00:59:27
to upload your memories and so you know
00:59:30
you talk about this idea of recording
00:59:32
your whole life through a pendant well
00:59:33
eventually You' be able to record your
00:59:35
whole life based on just through your
00:59:37
eyeballs and you know you'd be able to
00:59:40
upload in theory a firstperson view of
00:59:44
whatever conversation you've been in you
00:59:46
know and so there's a certain you look
00:59:48
this is pretty far off but there is
00:59:50
maybe a certain inevitability to that
00:59:53
and um we're going to have to figure out
00:59:54
how to deal with the Privacy
00:59:55
implications Black Mirror episode on
00:59:57
this exact idea yep yeah you have the
00:59:59
DVR of your entire life yeah and it is
01:00:02
gnarly to think these things will exist
01:00:04
and I think humanity is going to have to
01:00:05
make a decision I think to fight this or
01:00:07
embrace it I I think we should fight it
01:00:09
I think it's going to ruin uh like
01:00:11
social and existence and it's already
01:00:13
ruined poker Games Etc when everybody's
01:00:15
on their phone it's ruined dinner
01:00:16
parties when everybody's on their phones
01:00:18
the constant distraction is just
01:00:20
horrific and it's having a horrible
01:00:22
impact on this generation I'll double
01:00:23
down on what you're saying it is so
01:00:25
lovely to be ble to have a dinner where
01:00:26
everybody just talks to each other and
01:00:28
looks each other in the eyes yes and
01:00:30
then when you have a handful of people
01:00:31
always on their phone it's depressing
01:00:35
it's actually it's actually not even
01:00:36
neutral it's a net negative and a drag
01:00:39
on the entire night absolutely I I I am
01:00:42
trying to come up with ways to remove
01:00:44
these devices from the social settings
01:00:46
I'm in I've been to a couple of parties
01:00:47
with high-profile people where they have
01:00:49
everybody check their phones at the
01:00:51
Valle and the door I got to say those
01:00:53
are the best nights of my life those are
01:00:54
the best nights yeah they're incredible
01:00:56
and you know no offense to people who
01:00:57
are addicted to their phones I I am to a
01:00:59
certain extent I put my social media at
01:01:01
1 hour on my phone my Lord it is hard to
01:01:04
do less than an hour of social media in
01:01:06
our job positions and you know I deleted
01:01:10
Tik Tok about a month
01:01:11
ago it's been liberating I was a slave
01:01:15
to that app I couldn't believe how much
01:01:17
how much Tik Tok I was consuming after
01:01:20
it was gone because I couldn't I
01:01:21
couldn't find anything to replace it and
01:01:24
then I stumbled into the fact that
01:01:25
YouTube has YouTube shorts and there is
01:01:27
a lot of that content but it's terrible
01:01:29
and the algorithm is really bad yeah
01:01:31
sucks and so fortunately I just stopped
01:01:33
using YouTube it just shows you how the
01:01:36
algorithm is such a key component of
01:01:38
that Tik Tock experience because I had
01:01:40
the same experience shorts serves up
01:01:43
garbage garbage Instagram show serves up
01:01:46
garbage and then Tik Tok is just like
01:01:48
right into your brain kicks ass it kicks
01:01:52
ass by the way I'm G give another shout
01:01:53
I miss Tik Tok Tik Tok I miss you yeah
01:01:56
whatever it's that's going away I miss
01:01:57
you another Incredible Book I think we
01:01:59
should book this speaker for Allin
01:02:01
Summit bad therapy why the kids aren't
01:02:04
growing up Abigail shrier this book is
01:02:08
incredible and if you read these two
01:02:10
book every parent read these two books
01:02:13
and we need to have a conversation on it
01:02:14
as parents here everybody read these two
01:02:16
books these two these are my two top
01:02:18
choices for the all in Summit I think
01:02:20
it's like the going to be the the topic
01:02:22
of our time all right let's keep going
01:02:24
down this incredible pocket very
01:02:26
important issue for us to talk about
01:02:28
Silicon Valley startups having a bit of
01:02:30
a R&D tax problem thanks for putting it
01:02:33
on the docket here freeberg it's a bit
01:02:35
inside baseball but very important topic
01:02:38
let's say company like acne Corporation
01:02:40
generated a million bucks in revenue and
01:02:42
they spent a million bucks on their
01:02:43
software developers last year let's say
01:02:45
they had I don't know five developers
01:02:46
getting paid 200 Grand each well
01:02:48
traditionally this company would pay
01:02:49
nothing in income tax right they spent a
01:02:51
million they deduct that million from
01:02:53
the million dollars in Revenue that came
01:02:55
in and everything's good but due to the
01:02:59
tax cuts and jobs Act of
01:03:02
2017 starting last year a provision
01:03:04
kicked in forcing companies to advertise
01:03:06
their R&D expense over five years so in
01:03:09
this hypothetical situation the Acme
01:03:11
Corporation would advertise 200k a year
01:03:14
and pay income tax on the 800k in
01:03:16
profits this is brutal obviously St
01:03:19
quotes profits air quotes air quotes
01:03:21
profits correct yeah uh and this is
01:03:23
absolutely
01:03:24
brutal and a lot of companies took a
01:03:26
wency approaches hoping Congress would
01:03:28
fix the issue in January a bipartisan
01:03:30
tax bill that would reverse his changes
01:03:32
passed in the house but the bill has
01:03:34
stalled in the Senate and we got to get
01:03:36
this thing fixed because it's going to
01:03:37
sync a lot of startups maybe people will
01:03:39
start putting their companies in other
01:03:42
countries but uh it's attached to this
01:03:44
child tax credit which Republicans don't
01:03:46
want to pass so of no reversal has
01:03:48
happened freeberg you highlighted this
01:03:50
for us very important topic thank you
01:03:51
for doing
01:03:52
so as uh our great
01:03:57
contributor here what are your thoughts
01:03:58
on it this became law in the 2017 jobs
01:04:02
act as you
01:04:03
highlighted and basically it means that
01:04:06
companies not just like tech companies
01:04:08
but life sciences companies defense
01:04:11
companies are pushing Congress to change
01:04:13
this law because you can't actually
01:04:16
deduct the expenses that you use to run
01:04:19
your business you have to only deduct
01:04:21
them over five years 20% a year so like
01:04:24
you pointed out if you're making a a
01:04:25
million dollars but you're spending a
01:04:27
million dollars you made no profit but
01:04:28
you got to pay taxes as if you made 800
01:04:30
Grand in profit and a lot of these small
01:04:33
companies don't have that cash so
01:04:35
Venture Capital back companies and
01:04:37
public companies that are profitable
01:04:39
they can afford to do this because they
01:04:40
have large balance sheets so it doesn't
01:04:41
affect them as much as it does the
01:04:44
literally hundreds of thousands of small
01:04:47
businesses that work in the Life
01:04:48
Sciences sector the defense sector the
01:04:50
tech sector that are struggling this
01:04:52
year to make the tax payments that are
01:04:55
required
01:04:56
under this this law that went into
01:04:58
effect last year and Congress promised
01:05:00
that they were going to repeal this law
01:05:02
leading up to April 15th which happened
01:05:04
obviously a few days ago um and make it
01:05:06
retroactive to 2023 but they didn't but
01:05:09
freeberg they know basic math Congress
01:05:11
knows basic math how do they how do they
01:05:14
what do
01:05:15
they yeah so the the original intent was
01:05:18
that this was one of the ways you guys
01:05:20
know whenever you pass a bill it gets
01:05:22
run through the OM and the CBO that
01:05:24
figures out what's the budgetary cost of
01:05:26
the bill yeah and one of the ways that
01:05:28
they made this work this bill the 2017
01:05:31
Trump tax and jobs act you guys may
01:05:32
remember in that bill they also made it
01:05:34
impossible to deduct entertainment and
01:05:37
dining expenses when you take people out
01:05:38
to dinner anymore that sucks and they
01:05:40
did all those things to make up some of
01:05:41
the money they were using for basic
01:05:44
general tax breaks for companies so they
01:05:47
Ed this as a way to say like look in a
01:05:48
couple of years we're going to kick in
01:05:50
this R&D expenditure thing and it'll
01:05:52
trigger a lot more revenue for the
01:05:54
federal government it'll create a lot
01:05:55
more taxes and a lot more Revenue so
01:05:57
that was the idea and everyone was like
01:05:59
yeah okay sure we'll do that great it
01:06:01
makes the accounting work and then in a
01:06:02
couple years you know nudge nudge wink
01:06:04
wink we're going to come back and repeal
01:06:05
it except Congress has stalled out
01:06:08
there's this ineptitude where anytime
01:06:10
someone tries to pass a bill in Congress
01:06:12
someone else says I want to get money
01:06:15
and so the Democrats showed up and said
01:06:16
we want this child tax credit thing to
01:06:18
show up which
01:06:20
basically was passed during Co and they
01:06:24
want to extend it going for and the
01:06:26
child tax credit says that you can get a
01:06:28
check for 1,800 a year in 2023 1900 in
01:06:32
2024 and $2,000 in 2025 for having for
01:06:35
each child you have and the Republicans
01:06:37
in the Senate are saying wait a second
01:06:39
for people to get this thing we want to
01:06:41
make sure they're working we want to
01:06:42
make sure it's not as retroactive so now
01:06:44
there's this big debate about how big
01:06:45
the child tax credit should be and
01:06:47
that's keeping this R&D thing from going
01:06:50
through and meanwhile I've gotten tons
01:06:52
of emails from CEOs of tech companies
01:06:54
that are breaking these are not tech
01:06:56
companies that are making a ton of
01:06:57
profit they're not public they're not
01:06:59
Venture backed they're just people
01:07:00
running running their their business and
01:07:03
now they're gonna have this huge tax
01:07:05
bill even though they didn't make any
01:07:06
money this year and it's crippling
01:07:08
businesses around the country and
01:07:10
need they're going to write a check
01:07:12
they're going to borrow money they're
01:07:13
going to go to the bank borrow money or
01:07:15
they're going to incur penalties with
01:07:16
the IRS because they don't have the cash
01:07:17
to pay the the tax bill because they
01:07:19
don't have any profit they didn't make
01:07:20
any money if they just ran the business
01:07:22
Break Even which a lot of these
01:07:23
companies do is just make a little bit
01:07:25
of money break even and then they've got
01:07:27
this huge tax bill and profits they
01:07:28
didn't actually have they got to go
01:07:30
figure out how to write a check and also
01:07:31
how do you define R&D I was talking to
01:07:33
an accountant he's like yeah I don't
01:07:34
know if that's R&D I'm like you don't
01:07:35
know it's R&D like okay so if I make
01:07:38
some piece of software yeah yeah there's
01:07:40
all this writing in the um if you get
01:07:43
audited by the IRS they have the ability
01:07:46
to basically capture everything so like
01:07:47
let's say you're a mobile app developer
01:07:50
and you make a million dollars a year
01:07:51
but you spend a million dollars a year
01:07:53
on your developers okay they're going to
01:07:56
count that they have the the ability to
01:07:57
count that as an R&D so that the
01:07:59
accountants the tax accountants tell you
01:08:01
book it all as R&D because otherwise you
01:08:02
could get audited and actually get in
01:08:04
trouble because anything that involves
01:08:05
the development of Technology now is
01:08:07
considered R&D again a company working
01:08:10
in life sciences as a research company
01:08:12
doing lab work can but I do bug fixes is
01:08:15
a bug fix R&D if I make a new feature in
01:08:18
application this year does it have to be
01:08:20
advertised over five years if I put a
01:08:22
new filter I'm not a tax my
01:08:24
understanding is most of the stuff is
01:08:26
getting captured and that's why it's
01:08:27
hurting everything from defense to to to
01:08:29
Life Sciences to lab equipment to
01:08:32
startups that software to everything and
01:08:35
Congress can't get out of its own way
01:08:37
where this this bill passed by the way
01:08:39
bipartisan in the house then it went to
01:08:41
the Senate and now it's getting taken
01:08:43
apart in the Senate and now it's stalled
01:08:44
out and everyone's freaking out that
01:08:45
it's stalled out past April 15th and
01:08:48
it's actually going to hurt a lot of
01:08:49
small businesses in this country and
01:08:51
here's the other problem is it actually
01:08:54
limits our ability to invest in
01:08:55
innovation in this country because now
01:08:57
you're better off there's no other
01:08:59
country in the world that does this
01:09:00
every other country in the world tries
01:09:02
to incentivize investment in Innovation
01:09:04
and here in the US we're basically
01:09:06
saying no we're going to tax you for
01:09:09
investing in technology development and
01:09:11
Innovation and the other thing that's
01:09:13
that's actually not being talked about
01:09:15
is even in this bill where they're
01:09:17
repealing this they're leaving in the
01:09:20
fact that if you invest in R&D outside
01:09:22
the US you have to amortise it over 50
01:09:25
years so let's say that you're a US
01:09:27
developer and you hire people offshore
01:09:30
yeah you got to basically amortise the
01:09:32
offshore stuff over 15 years which means
01:09:34
you'll never make a profit you're always
01:09:36
gonna have to pay taxes how we're trying
01:09:38
to kill innovation in this country and
01:09:40
the two things they got to solve is this
01:09:42
one and then m&a we got to have a better
01:09:46
solution for allowing companies to be
01:09:49
bought and sold in this or or merge in
01:09:51
this country these two things are
01:09:53
putting a lot of headwind
01:09:56
on the startup ecosystem and on the
01:09:58
Venture and the risk-taking capital
01:10:00
ecosystems if you're
01:10:02
in Washington DC you're involved in our
01:10:05
government please solve these two issues
01:10:07
you got to figure out a way to allow
01:10:09
companies to be bought and sold you got
01:10:11
to figure out
01:10:12
away to to fix this tax issue or else
01:10:15
we're going to kill a lot of startups
01:10:17
and these are the companies that pay a
01:10:19
lot of taxes and these are the capital
01:10:21
gains that fund a lot of state's
01:10:23
treasuries it's also it also an
01:10:25
illustration of just how hungry we are
01:10:27
for tax revenue in this country you know
01:10:30
it's only going to grow and I'm not
01:10:31
sitting here complaining about taxes you
01:10:33
know the Trump tax cut that he put in
01:10:35
place in 2017 added one and a half
01:10:37
trillion dollars to the federal deficit
01:10:40
so tax cuts in general are not great
01:10:42
when you're spending a lot but it does
01:10:44
highlight just how much we are spending
01:10:45
at the federal level and the demand for
01:10:48
tax revenue and that demand causes this
01:10:51
counter cyclical problem which is now
01:10:52
we're going to eat into Innovation which
01:10:54
is supposed to drive get us out of the
01:10:56
problem the spiral that that results
01:10:58
from this debt so it really highlights
01:11:01
like just the challenges that are going
01:11:02
to emerge particularly in the decade
01:11:04
ahead because we have all of the
01:11:05
spending that's coming in front of us
01:11:07
over the next decade and how we're going
01:11:08
to start to demand more and more tax in
01:11:10
all these weird ways that can really
01:11:12
hurt industry unintended consequences
01:11:15
are very
01:11:16
real shath you were gonna say something
01:11:19
well doesn't it mean though that if you
01:11:20
run it at break even and without a lot
01:11:24
of growth by year five you'll be back to
01:11:26
where you were so you really have to
01:11:27
cover the taxes in years one through
01:11:30
four that's right if the business but if
01:11:32
the business is growing you're always
01:11:33
going to be in a
01:11:34
hole right right so if your revenue is
01:11:37
growing and your Opex is growing you're
01:11:39
always going to be in a hole I think
01:11:40
Jason mentioned it earlier and I think
01:11:42
it's the key thing which is what is R&D
01:11:44
then yeah and maybe you just move things
01:11:47
to cogs and just be done with it I
01:11:51
remember businesses and and you guys
01:11:53
know this like when you look at a public
01:11:54
company's financials what you're seeing
01:11:56
is their Gap financials generally
01:11:58
accepted accounting principles and
01:12:01
that's the way that you present the
01:12:02
financials of a business that's
01:12:04
different than the way you present
01:12:05
financials to the IRS you don't have a
01:12:07
lot of discretion in your tax financials
01:12:10
your tax financials are actually quite
01:12:12
different than your Gap financials yes
01:12:14
so when you file your taxes there's a
01:12:16
lot of rules on what you are allowed to
01:12:18
deduct and aren't allow to deduct that's
01:12:19
quite different than how you present
01:12:21
your corporate financials to investors
01:12:23
and that's really where people get
01:12:24
screwed is you don't have that sort of
01:12:25
discretion that you do in kind of
01:12:28
sharing your financials with investors
01:12:30
so this is not Financial or accounting
01:12:32
advice get great representation I just
01:12:34
hope Congress resolves this because it's
01:12:35
you know yes super important all right
01:12:37
sports betting has gone mainstream if
01:12:39
you don't know two out of three College
01:12:41
have placed a bet in the last year since
01:12:44
the Supreme Court struck down the
01:12:46
amateur sports protection act 38 states
01:12:48
have legalize sports betting I think
01:12:50
that's a great thing but we're starting
01:12:52
to see some weird Behavior because of it
01:12:54
t of sites like DraftKings FanDuel ESPN
01:12:58
bet b MGM all of these have broken out
01:13:01
but this week we started to see some
01:13:03
weird Behavior the NBA banned a 24y old
01:13:06
player jonte Porter for life after a
01:13:10
scandal this one is bizarre an
01:13:13
interesting Porter was Bench player for
01:13:15
the Toronto Raptors averaging about 14
01:13:17
minutes per game it's important on these
01:13:20
gambling apps you can do all kinds of
01:13:21
prop bets for those of you who don't
01:13:23
know prop bets could be things like like
01:13:25
uh Steph is going to hit five threes in
01:13:28
a game or LeBron's going to score under
01:13:30
30 points you're just betting on unique
01:13:32
things that could happen and then you
01:13:33
can parlay them together you can put
01:13:35
multiple bets together and it
01:13:36
automatically gives you a price and you
01:13:39
can do really you know deep Wagers doing
01:13:43
this the NBA found out that Porto was
01:13:45
telling people to bet his unders for
01:13:48
points and rebounds During certain games
01:13:50
during those games he'd play a few
01:13:51
minutes then check him out s out of the
01:13:54
game Within illness quote unquote
01:13:57
technically the bet would still count
01:13:58
since he played the game but everybody
01:14:00
who bet his unders would win normally
01:14:02
nobody would notice this of course
01:14:04
because he doesn't play that much he's a
01:14:05
bench player but DraftKings because they
01:14:08
have all the
01:14:09
data tipped everyone off because Porter
01:14:14
was the biggest money maker on March
01:14:16
20th this led to an NBA investigation
01:14:18
Draft Kings will give you a leaderboard
01:14:20
of the biggest bets and they saw that
01:14:22
somebody placed an $80,000 bet that
01:14:24
Porter would hit the on a bunch of
01:14:25
different categories crazy outlier bet
01:14:28
DraftKings canceled the bet the NBA
01:14:31
found that Porter separately placed
01:14:32
dozens of bets on NBA games using his
01:14:35
friends accounts winning a whopping
01:14:38
$222,000 and this idiot now is banned
01:14:41
for life from the NBA allegedly
01:14:43
allegedly allegedly but obviously the
01:14:47
NBA has the receipts with DraftKings
01:14:50
chath you owned a NBA team for a little
01:14:53
while and you watched as David
01:14:55
for aade you watch as David Stern who
01:14:57
was absolutely opposed to gambling and
01:15:02
then Adam Sil embraced it tell us from
01:15:04
your front row seat your thoughts on
01:15:06
wagering in the
01:15:08
NBA and wagering RIT
01:15:10
large okay
01:15:13
look I remember
01:15:17
when I joined the ownership group of the
01:15:19
Warriors I had to file this enormous
01:15:22
document and one of the things that they
01:15:24
really into is whether you've bet
01:15:28
before and they make it really really
01:15:31
clear that it is completely not allowed
01:15:35
to bet and the only way that you can bet
01:15:38
is if you're betting on non-basketball
01:15:39
and if you are in Vegas and you go to a
01:15:41
casino and a troop sports book that's
01:15:43
the only time it's tolerated the thing
01:15:46
with all of these sites FanDuel and
01:15:48
DraftKings is they did deals with the
01:15:51
leagues where part of the feature is
01:15:53
that when there really crazy asymmetric
01:15:56
betting on something that's obscure they
01:15:59
report it back to the leagues so the
01:16:01
leagues know how to look at it because
01:16:02
typically what happens is if you're
01:16:04
talking like a very well-contested
01:16:07
basketball Jason you have a relatively
01:16:10
balanced book right and what the the
01:16:13
goal is is to figure out where are the
01:16:14
sharps betting meaning the really smart
01:16:16
money guys and everybody else is a
01:16:18
square and most of retail is a square
01:16:20
okay they're going to lose their money
01:16:22
and so the goal is to always find out
01:16:23
where the sharps are going but there are
01:16:25
some of these bets and in this case this
01:16:27
is why they found out when you have
01:16:29
something being bet that's very obscure
01:16:31
in size these apps immediately go back
01:16:35
to the league and say this just happened
01:16:37
so compare that to chth what would
01:16:40
happen previously before sports betting
01:16:42
was legal in the US before what would
01:16:44
happen is like all of these bookies
01:16:47
would be able to have relationships with
01:16:49
some of these players sometimes they
01:16:50
would also have relationships with some
01:16:52
of the refs and it has SP over so the
01:16:55
NBA has had to deal with an example
01:16:58
where one of the refs were I think he
01:16:59
was betting on some games Don Tim Don
01:17:02
and then he was Point shaving so this
01:17:04
has been going on for a long time it
01:17:06
moved into the realm of it being
01:17:09
automated with algorithms looking out
01:17:12
the fact that this kid didn't have
01:17:15
anybody on his team that explained that
01:17:18
DraftKings and FanDuel are going to send
01:17:20
this data to the NBA is inexcusable
01:17:23
because maybe the kid would not have
01:17:25
done it right do you agree with the
01:17:27
lifetime ban or do you think there
01:17:28
should be yeah yeah it has to be
01:17:29
lifetime has to be for the NBA to have
01:17:32
integrity has yeah yeah it's really uh
01:17:35
and and what do we think about this
01:17:38
becoming legal in the US and people the
01:17:41
other thing I'll say well the other
01:17:42
thing I'll say and I and I mentioned
01:17:43
this a few weeks
01:17:45
ago everything is being gamified you
01:17:48
have an entire population that seemingly
01:17:52
in America consumer spending still goes
01:17:54
up folks are relatively still flush with
01:17:57
cash there's lots of free cash flow
01:18:00
there are new and
01:18:02
more aggressive forms of stimulus
01:18:05
constantly coming down the pike whether
01:18:07
it's student loan forgiveness or
01:18:09
something else right governments are
01:18:10
inventing new and new ways of buying
01:18:12
votes that's going to put more and more
01:18:13
money in people's hands that means a
01:18:16
larger and larger percentage of it will
01:18:18
bleed into these kinds of things and
01:18:19
it's not just Sports gambling there was
01:18:21
an article in the Wall Street Journal
01:18:23
about this woman who's a well-respected
01:18:25
lawyer who became totally addicted
01:18:27
playing like a bingo app right and lost
01:18:30
her entire life so these forms of
01:18:33
gambling and addiction are just going to
01:18:34
Skyrocket I think because you have these
01:18:37
apps that are really incredibly well-
01:18:40
engineered to get you super hooked and
01:18:43
then the adrenaline rush and the
01:18:45
dopamine Rush of actually winning money
01:18:47
is a thing that for some people they
01:18:49
can't turn off once they feel it for the
01:18:51
first time we know some of those people
01:18:52
and you know it's it's hard for them to
01:18:54
control their sports betting Blackjack
01:18:57
playing other things they just they get
01:18:59
too into it they get too into it they
01:19:01
get just and you know but other
01:19:03
societies other GEOS Australia New
01:19:06
Zealand and the UK they've had this for
01:19:08
a while so they figured out how to deal
01:19:10
with this this is what I'm going to tell
01:19:11
you the last thing I'll say on this is
01:19:12
when I was in high school so in the
01:19:13
early 90s in Ontario in Canada they
01:19:16
introduced sports betting as a way of
01:19:18
generating revenue for the government
01:19:21
what I will tell you is that my entire
01:19:23
High School all the boys not the girls
01:19:26
we became instant gambling
01:19:29
addicts we were figuring out how to put
01:19:31
bets on most of it was betting and
01:19:33
hockey because that's the sport that we
01:19:34
all knew the best growing up in in
01:19:38
Ottawa but it was all day every day it
01:19:41
consumed us and I think when you look
01:19:44
inside of these apps you're seeing a lot
01:19:45
of young men with a lot of free cash and
01:19:47
a lot of time getting sucked into the
01:19:49
gamification of this thing I think it's
01:19:51
going to be a big problem and I I will
01:19:53
tell you saaks I'm interested in your on
01:19:54
this cuz there is a whole system an
01:19:56
ecosystem emerging here the states are
01:19:58
getting massive amounts of Revenue 11
01:20:01
billion generated last year up 44.5%
01:20:05
from 2022 the league is printing money
01:20:08
from this all the leagues NBA will
01:20:10
generate 167 million from betting this
01:20:12
season up 11% year-over-year the sports
01:20:15
books obviously killing a Draft Kings
01:20:16
got a$ 20 billion market cap and betters
01:20:19
obviously love it it's more fun it's
01:20:21
making the games more engaging and the
01:20:24
media
01:20:25
is loving this all of the podcast Bill
01:20:28
Simmons ESPN you can't watch a game you
01:20:31
can't hear Sports commentary without
01:20:33
this being integrated and it's being
01:20:34
integrated at a very fundamental
01:20:36
editorial level they're asking the host
01:20:39
of these shows their spend what they're
01:20:41
betting on and they're doing something
01:20:43
very smart which is they're paying huge
01:20:45
endorsement deals to the players as well
01:20:47
yes I think DraftKings did something
01:20:48
with LeBron this is genius because when
01:20:50
you get that ingratiated you'll never
01:20:52
get ripped out because if they become a
01:20:54
huge part of the offc Court Revenue
01:20:56
model for these players yeah we're
01:20:59
locked in it's like it's like the new uh
01:21:01
it's like the new Air Jordans sax what
01:21:03
do you think about this just in terms of
01:21:04
on a societal basis and the United
01:21:07
States you know it's sort of like
01:21:09
cannabis you know it's this is a new
01:21:11
thing for Americans to have access to
01:21:13
there's a lot of weird behaviors going
01:21:15
on edge cases but what do you think net
01:21:17
net as a society you take away from the
01:21:20
emergence of sports batting and this
01:21:22
next Generation being so addicted to it
01:21:25
well I think cannabis is the right
01:21:26
analogy I think adults should be allowed
01:21:29
to bet on sporting events or just like
01:21:31
they're allowed to drink or you know
01:21:34
smoke pod or engage in other mild VI
01:21:37
some people handle it responsibly and
01:21:39
some don't it's probably on a societal
01:21:41
basis it's probably not a great thing
01:21:43
but it's something you allow to happen
01:21:46
because of personal freedom and
01:21:48
hopefully people use it
01:21:51
responsibly uh freeberg you have any
01:21:53
thoughts you play you place any bets
01:21:54
free broke have you plac any bets on
01:21:55
Sports I'm curious I do not you do not I
01:21:58
I don't I don't place bets on Sports but
01:22:00
I love playing cards because it's social
01:22:02
jamat do you do any sports betting now
01:22:04
and again maybe this maybe on the Super
01:22:06
Bowl you get uh once in a while you
01:22:07
place a bet a wager when I got admitted
01:22:10
to the ownership group in the NBA I
01:22:11
stopped and I've probably made three
01:22:14
bets since then both all three were like
01:22:17
on the Super Bowl at a casino which so
01:22:20
it was legal when I was still an owner
01:22:22
and I've not done it since and I've
01:22:24
refused to download these apps
01:22:26
because I love sports and I think that
01:22:29
if I added this to
01:22:32
it I just don't think it would be good
01:22:34
for me so I don't want to do it that was
01:22:36
my exact take too sack you ever place
01:22:38
any bets you're not a wager the stuff
01:22:39
either right yeah you ever bet on
01:22:42
chess is there any no one bets on chess
01:22:45
because it's so obvious who's going to
01:22:47
win there's like a very precise rating
01:22:48
system and correct so in poker poker's
01:22:52
very different because you can have
01:22:54
players at the same table and you know
01:22:56
who are the great players and who are
01:22:57
not the great players but still in any
01:22:59
given hand the underdog can win because
01:23:02
you can basically suck out or whatever
01:23:04
there's a significant luck component on
01:23:06
every single hand over the long term you
01:23:09
believe that the luck kind of evens out
01:23:11
and you reach your expected value but On
01:23:13
Any Given hand you can believe that
01:23:15
you're the winner and so there's a lot
01:23:17
of gambling and poker even though it is
01:23:19
a skill game in chess like that just
01:23:22
doesn't work I mean if I play Magnus
01:23:25
Carlson or any 2000 rated player I'm
01:23:28
just never gonna win so there's no point
01:23:30
in betting saak what's your rating
01:23:34
1400 I'm a little better than that I'm
01:23:36
like um I'm probably more like 1600 last
01:23:38
time I was 1400 I stopped playing him
01:23:40
because he would just I would get to the
01:23:42
middle game with sacks I get like 30
01:23:43
moves in and then he would just smash me
01:23:45
I'm like 800 or something I how do you
01:23:47
get better you have a
01:23:49
rating I don't want to talk about it he
01:23:52
doesn't want to talk but what's your
01:23:53
rating are you still upset about the
01:23:55
octopus
01:23:56
stuff no oh okay what's your but what's
01:23:59
your
01:24:00
rating question it's too personal a
01:24:03
question do you do you never share
01:24:05
information where people can actually
01:24:07
like R you yeah be vulnerable dude come
01:24:10
on ask ask me other questions just don't
01:24:13
ask me about my CH rating don't ask me
01:24:15
about my chest rating ask anything else
01:24:17
what's the best way to get better should
01:24:19
I get a coach or something saxs what's
01:24:21
the the chess.com app has very good
01:24:22
lessons on it too quite good yeah you
01:24:25
could get a coach and that would
01:24:26
definitely help there's also these
01:24:28
exercises you can do call puzzle rushes
01:24:30
that teach you how to spot tactics
01:24:32
that's all tactics that's probably half
01:24:34
the game yeah like you learn how to do a
01:24:37
night fork or something like that how to
01:24:39
do pins you just need to spot tactics
01:24:41
quickly is really key my puzzle Rush
01:24:42
scores are pretty good oh you're over a
01:24:45
thousand puzz no no you play it's like
01:24:47
how many you can get in a certain period
01:24:48
of Time how many and it gets it gets
01:24:50
sequentially harder as you complete the
01:24:52
puzzles and you have like a limited
01:24:55
period to do it so yet you feel shame
01:24:58
you feel shame if you want to get better
01:24:59
at chess I've watched a lot of Chess
01:25:01
videos on YouTube and there's a very
01:25:03
good series by John Bartholomew called
01:25:06
climbing the ratings ladder H and for
01:25:09
each level of Elo ratings he has a
01:25:12
series of videos so like I don't know if
01:25:14
you're like at 1200 there's a whole
01:25:16
series for 1200s and he'll play a bunch
01:25:19
of games against 1200s showing what they
01:25:21
typically do wrong and you can learn
01:25:24
from it it's
01:25:25
actually you spent have you spent time
01:25:27
socks like studying like openings and
01:25:31
like
01:25:31
studying like specific lines I don't
01:25:33
even know if I'm using the right
01:25:34
language here like um opening right I
01:25:38
haven't spent a ton of time studying
01:25:40
them but I'm certainly familiar with a
01:25:42
number of the most common
01:25:44
openings so I guess yes I guess on some
01:25:46
level I've studied them I would say that
01:25:49
depending on where you are in your
01:25:52
development that may not be the most
01:25:54
impressing thing for you to
01:25:56
do you know I think you you probably do
01:25:59
want to just know a few basics of a few
01:26:01
of the most common openings but but
01:26:04
there's probably other things for you to
01:26:05
learn first you don't need to like
01:26:07
memorize a bunch of complicated lines I
01:26:09
think it's like really cool that kids
01:26:11
are learning this I know this may be a
01:26:13
counter or a contrarian view but I I
01:26:15
think kids having access you know or
01:26:18
young adults having access to sports
01:26:19
batting poker is kind of a good thing
01:26:22
because I you know if controlled because
01:26:24
are learning about odds and gambling and
01:26:27
and framing it I um with my 14-year-old
01:26:30
are doing an allowance and then I
01:26:33
decided to do an investment club and so
01:26:35
I'm putting $100 every month into like a
01:26:37
Robin Hood account and we're going to do
01:26:40
like two meetings every month one to buy
01:26:42
a new stock and one to examine our
01:26:44
existing stocks and I'm just starting an
01:26:46
investment Club so if anybody's kids are
01:26:48
in that age group and they want to join
01:26:49
it let me know because I'm going to do
01:26:51
like a with the cousins like a zoom call
01:26:53
every month where we just talk about
01:26:55
stocks and then I'm going to have them
01:26:57
actually buy
01:26:58
it so that they can be prepared for the
01:27:01
real world and how companies are going
01:27:02
but how do you think about your kids jth
01:27:05
because you you got to do this gambling
01:27:06
when you were young didn't that help you
01:27:08
ultimately as an adult I mean I ran a
01:27:11
casino in my high
01:27:14
school was that was that the uh yeah I
01:27:17
mean I I ran a I ran a little blackjack
01:27:19
game where the rich kids could play and
01:27:21
I was the house and I would make a few
01:27:23
extra hundred bucks a week nice and that
01:27:27
was great because like you know between
01:27:28
that and my job at Burger King it really
01:27:31
helped and then I would go and take that
01:27:33
and I actually came pretty decent at
01:27:35
blackj and I would go they would there
01:27:36
would be these what's called charity
01:27:38
casinos so casinos in Ottawa Ontario
01:27:40
were illegal but if they were to raise
01:27:42
charity for various Charities they were
01:27:45
allowed and so my friend my friend and I
01:27:48
would show up at these things and just
01:27:49
run them
01:27:50
over anybody else run an illegal
01:27:52
business as a as a kid I'll tell you
01:27:54
about mine after sack do you run any
01:27:55
illegal businesses as a kid no comment
01:27:58
come on it's statue of limitations what
01:28:00
did you do you must have been running
01:28:01
some scams come on tell us I'll tell you
01:28:03
my two scams after you tell us yours oh
01:28:05
by the way I'll tell you I had a bad
01:28:06
dead situation in my in my oh really
01:28:08
lunch game you know I used to I used to
01:28:10
let people bet up to a buck okay so four
01:28:12
or five guys up you know 25 cents 50
01:28:15
cents or a dollar and one guy he like
01:28:18
demanded an expanded credit line and so
01:28:20
I gave him up to two bucks and how many
01:28:22
boxes a z did he go down and one lunch
01:28:25
he lost 80 bucks and it took me three
01:28:27
months to get paid it was the worst exp
01:28:29
of Z I had no $80 I had I'm just doing a
01:28:32
soprano I had to I had to sweat this guy
01:28:35
for three months to get my
01:28:36
80 he was rich too his parents were Rich
01:28:40
what he do did he have to do your term
01:28:41
papers or something did he have to do
01:28:42
your essays clean clean your bike I
01:28:45
wouldn't have gotten this come on give
01:28:46
it up what was your what was your scam
01:28:48
you were running as let's move
01:28:50
on I had two scams freeberg you have a
01:28:53
scam when you were running when you were
01:28:54
a kid any scams I used to go to the
01:28:58
Recycler newspaper do you guys remember
01:29:00
that yeah the recycler and I would buy
01:29:02
used like Electronics equipment computer
01:29:04
equipment and then I would like sell it
01:29:08
so I would then like post other ads I
01:29:10
basically did add Arbitrage as a way to
01:29:11
think about it so I would go and find
01:29:13
people selling stuff that I thought was
01:29:15
like underpriced and I would buy it
01:29:17
there was nothing to fix you would just
01:29:19
it was underpriced and then I knew like
01:29:20
the better Market to go sell it at and
01:29:21
make more money so then I'd buy like all
01:29:23
these like old like like a broken
01:29:25
receiver disc man and a receiver good
01:29:28
speaker speakers that I knew were good
01:29:30
but they were like deeply discounted I
01:29:32
drive around in my white van I'd pay
01:29:34
people cash I'd load it up and then I go
01:29:35
sell it to like other people by putting
01:29:37
ads no wonder you w up no wonder you
01:29:39
wound up at
01:29:40
Google I had I had two really good scams
01:29:43
when I was a kid the first was this guy
01:29:45
owed my dad some money for back gaming
01:29:47
my dad was a back gamon shark and he
01:29:49
would play in his bar when I would show
01:29:51
up at 6:00 in the morning my dad would
01:29:52
be playing blackjack with guys they
01:29:53
would get you know in deep with him and
01:29:57
so this guy who was in the mob owe my
01:29:59
dad some money and uh for The Vig he
01:30:02
gave him a copy of The Empire Strikes
01:30:04
Back on
01:30:05
VHS and I was like what you this is
01:30:09
before it was out they had recorded in
01:30:10
the movie theaters in 1984 or something3
01:30:13
whenever that came out and it was a
01:30:15
really bad copy so I my dad comes home
01:30:18
he gives me the copy we watch it it was
01:30:19
incredible it's like thanks Dad and I
01:30:21
got my friend to bring over his VHS I
01:30:23
made 10 copies of it I go to school in
01:30:25
McKinley junor High School in Brooklyn
01:30:27
and I sell them for 30 bucks a pop oh my
01:30:29
God selling like hot cakes and then I
01:30:32
get
01:30:33
pinched math teacher says what's going
01:30:35
on with these Empire Strikes Back and I
01:30:38
said uh what do you mean I don't know
01:30:39
what you're talking about he's like I
01:30:41
heard your got onire strikes back he
01:30:43
kept your mouth shut I looked him dead
01:30:45
in the eye and I said are you
01:30:47
interested the teacher goes yeah how
01:30:50
much are they I said 30 bucks but I'll
01:30:53
give you one for
01:30:54
10 and he said okay pulled out 10 bucks
01:30:57
I sold my math teacher I kid you not the
01:30:59
Empire Strike Back for 10 bucks can you
01:31:01
do this whole thing again but in the
01:31:02
Christopher Walkin voice I'm not gonna
01:31:05
but I'll give you the other one I did no
01:31:07
it's a Joe pesy voice do this one in the
01:31:08
Christopher Walkin voice and so the name
01:31:10
of it was Jason's hot tapes and so I
01:31:12
made a business card and laminated
01:31:13
Jason's hot tapes and I would hand it to
01:31:15
people and I'd hand them the Jason's hot
01:31:17
tape card and theyd say give me my card
01:31:19
back but I would just show him that I
01:31:20
had a card oh that reminds me I was also
01:31:22
in the fake ID business
01:31:24
oh say more yeah I grinded out I grinded
01:31:27
out fake IDs with a buddy of mine all
01:31:29
right that was mine that was mine oh Z
01:31:32
the fake ID business too we used Harvard
01:31:34
Graphics Sak what were you using I was
01:31:36
using Harvard Graphics well this was in
01:31:37
the days before Holograms and it wasn't
01:31:40
it just wasn't that hard to you know cop
01:31:42
so we just made like boards or whatever
01:31:44
and Polaroids so we did it for ourselves
01:31:47
and we did it for friends yeah same
01:31:48
here's the thing about the fake ID
01:31:50
business the bouncers were like if you
01:31:54
got money show us any piece of paper so
01:31:57
we have plausible we have plausible
01:31:59
deniability just wanted plausible
01:32:01
deniability that was the that's the key
01:32:03
to the racket did you put mck Lovin in
01:32:06
University of Hawaii yeah actually well
01:32:10
it's kind of funny is sometimes the
01:32:11
bouncers would go what's your name and
01:32:14
you'd be like you'd be stumped because
01:32:16
you didn't remember what so drunk you
01:32:18
don't even
01:32:19
remember like my name is was like my
01:32:23
name was like was like Raj
01:32:28
Patel Raj Patel or they' ask you what
01:32:31
was your birthday and you don't remember
01:32:32
what's on your ID you don't know what's
01:32:34
on your ID I don't remember I don't
01:32:36
remember you know the the key I had one
01:32:39
drink now the key in the fake ID game is
01:32:41
to use your your month and day that's
01:32:45
yours and then just change the Year yes
01:32:48
that's the key that's the key all right
01:32:50
so I'll give you the second one do it in
01:32:52
Christopher Walkin voice so my friend
01:32:55
his brother had a
01:32:58
DeLorean he I I can't do it I can't
01:33:01
sated anyway this kid U who I grew up
01:33:05
with oh I should sorry um anyway his
01:33:08
name was beep that out he lived up on
01:33:10
13th Avenue I go to his house his
01:33:13
brother's got a DeLorean it was
01:33:14
incredible and we're in junior high
01:33:16
school and I'm talking to his brother
01:33:18
and I go into the garage and there's all
01:33:20
DeLorean Parts on the wall and I said
01:33:24
why do you have all these parts and he
01:33:26
said oh you know uh there was a DeLorean
01:33:29
that um you know fell apart and we
01:33:32
picked up the pieces they had stolen
01:33:34
another DeLorean because DeLorean
01:33:35
stopped producing and they just chopped
01:33:37
it up but he had in his garage so anyway
01:33:39
uh we're playing Chessmaster at the time
01:33:41
and I had hacked a copy of Chessmaster
01:33:43
it was very easy to do and the guy said
01:33:45
you got Chessmaster can you get me more
01:33:47
copies of that I said sure how many
01:33:48
copies you want he's like how many can
01:33:49
you make I was like well floppy disc
01:33:51
costs four bucks he's like I'll give you
01:33:54
10 bucks a copy of Chess Master I said
01:33:55
fine I go with my friend we go steal
01:33:58
floppy discs uh from the store so we
01:34:02
didn't want to pay the four bucks for
01:34:03
them not the not the three and a halfs
01:34:04
the five and a quarter these are five
01:34:05
and a quarters and we go into the store
01:34:08
and we take the flyer and I hold the
01:34:11
flyer open and I hold it behind my back
01:34:13
and my friend takes the discs out of the
01:34:15
sleeve at Stables whatever Dums them in
01:34:17
there we made copies of it and then we
01:34:19
were selling Chessmaster for 10 bucks a
01:34:21
pop at scale and giving them to the guys
01:34:24
on 13th Avenue who were then reselling
01:34:25
them for 20 bucks this is when
01:34:26
Chessmaster was like a $100 product
01:34:28
Shout out to Chessmaster um but that was
01:34:32
my second scam business this is some
01:34:34
degenerate yeah and that's not even the
01:34:37
best one the I'll give you the best one
01:34:39
this is the best and I'll give you the
01:34:40
last scan we
01:34:41
ran there were parking permits in the
01:34:43
late 80s in Manhattan they were hard to
01:34:46
get but they were legit if you had a
01:34:49
parking permit in your window for the
01:34:51
fire department police you know you
01:34:54
could park in Manhattan in a lot of
01:34:55
different areas and so uh we went and we
01:34:59
took a picture of these then we got on
01:35:01
page maker or whatever and I went down
01:35:03
to Canal Street and I bought at uh Pearl
01:35:06
paints like the the same color orange
01:35:09
and that lamination kit and we got on
01:35:12
Photoshop I kid you not we held the
01:35:13
picture up and we tried to figure out
01:35:15
the fonts they used and we made a copy
01:35:18
of the placards to park and then we sold
01:35:21
those for like 50 bucks and people used
01:35:23
them and they wouldn't get tickets they
01:35:25
worked so we sold police placards that
01:35:28
had to be super illegal in 1988 all
01:35:30
right everybody four your Sultan of
01:35:32
science the exceptional David freedberg
01:35:35
your chairman dictator jth
01:35:37
ptia the Rainman yeah David Sachs I am
01:35:42
your world's greatest moderator J Cal
01:35:44
we'll see you on episode 176 and
01:35:47
hopefully in September at the all-in
01:35:49
summit bye-bye
01:35:52
byebye your Winner's
01:35:55
ride Rainman
01:35:59
David and it said we open source it to
01:36:02
the fans and they've just gone crazy
01:36:03
with it queen
01:36:09
[Music]
01:36:12
of
01:36:15
Besties my dog Tak
01:36:20
driveways oh man my habiter will meet me
01:36:23
at we should all just get a room and
01:36:24
just have one big huge orgy because
01:36:26
they're all just useless it's like this
01:36:28
like sexual tension that they just need
01:36:29
to release
01:36:30
[Music]
01:36:36
somehow we need to get mer
01:36:41
[Music]
01:36:45
our I'm going all
01:36:48
[Music]
