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Elon Musk Sues OpenAI and Sam Altman

March 05, 2024 / 10:12

This episode discusses Elon Musk's lawsuit against OpenAI and CEO Sam Altman, focusing on allegations of breach of contract and fiduciary duty. The hosts analyze Musk's motivations and the potential impact of the lawsuit on OpenAI's operations.

The conversation features insights from various participants, including Jason Quan, OpenAI's Chief Strategy Officer, who suggests Musk's claims may stem from his regrets about leaving the company. The hosts express skepticism about the lawsuit's legal merit, with many lawyers believing it lacks a solid foundation.

Scott mentions a personal anecdote about his past investment decisions, drawing parallels to Musk's current situation. He emphasizes that Musk's actions seem to reflect frustration rather than legitimate grievances.

The discussion also touches on the broader implications of Musk's litigation tactics, suggesting they may create a chilling effect on innovation and business practices. The hosts argue that such aggressive lawsuits can hinder small businesses and disrupt the economy.

Overall, the episode critiques Musk's approach to litigation and its potential consequences for the tech industry, highlighting the need for a more constructive dialogue around AI development.

TL;DR

Elon Musk sues OpenAI, claiming breach of contract; hosts discuss motivations and implications for the tech industry.

Video

00:00:00
Elon Musk is suing open Ai and its CEO
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Sam mman saying they abandoned the
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company's original Mission to develop AI
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for the benefit of humanity and not for
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profit in the lawsuit musk accuses opena
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and Alman of being in breach of contract
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and violating fiduciary duty and asks
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that opena be required to open up its
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technology to others Opia is pushing
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back against musk in the lawsuit and an
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internal memo to employees Chief
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strategy Officer Jason Quan who I happen
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to know writing we believe the claims in
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the suit may stem from elon's regrets at
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not being involved with company today I
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think that essentially translate to what
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a loser I think I believe that's their
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attitude there at opena in fact I know
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it is um first of all as I said on X for
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those not a lawyer my summary tough
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toenails AI Karen ven note kosla who's
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an investor in opena posted about the
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suit saying it feels like a bit of sour
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grapes um most lawyers that have written
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about it says there's no merit it's not
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a contract this was not a contract and
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and it's just a lot of grievance by Elon
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Musk most contract lawyers think it's
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not but Elon always said you know does a
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pitch over the over the plate and an
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attempt lawsuits are his thing are his
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love language um what do you think about
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uh the the lawsuit Scott I had coffee
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with Ted Sandos a few weeks ago by the
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way a lovely guy and about 12 years ago
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I bought what was for me a lot of stock
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of Netflix I think 12 bucks a share and
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it fell to 10 in December so I sold it
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to take the tax loss and I never bought
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back in and now what is it at 500
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and I remember sitting there as I was
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talking to Ted thinking as lovely as he
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is if I owned a [ __ ] ton of shares right
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now I would like him so much
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more and but here's the thing I'm not
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going to sue the company because I
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[ __ ] up and made a bad decision and
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lost a lot of money and power and that's
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all this is there is no agreement
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stating between them and Elon Musk
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stating how they would operate the
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company he left the company these were
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his decisions he tried to take over and
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then was rebuffed and left but go ahead
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this is literally a a a child stamping
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his or her feet because they quit the
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team and then the team goes on to the
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national finals and so they get Daddy
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they sue the team yeah I mean there's
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this is legally laughable except for the
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part when you have a
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billionaire when you have a billionaire
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with armies of lawyers he will harass
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them and he will make their lives more
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difficult this makes this make this
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slows down Commerce it slows down
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Innovation and it is it is literally
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harassment by litigation there is no
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legal Merit here there is no business
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principle here it is it is a guy going
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wait I control space I sort of control
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Eves I can't believe I [ __ ] up and I
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don't control AI I know I'll sue them
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yeah yeah is there anything bad about
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it's interesting I've talked to people
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there and they're this is the I mean
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they wanted that memo out there
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obviously the node's been very
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aggressive and very like [ __ ] this guy
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essentially
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um and you know I think they're
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basically he's just he's just feels like
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a loser and he's not the cool kid he's
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not the cool kid in Ai and he was there
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early that's for sure for hundred I was
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he talked about it extensively 10 years
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ago but he definitely got made a power
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play as he is want to do this is one of
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his moves at every company he's been at
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he always makes a power play and either
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gets rebuffed or he wins um often gets
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rebuffed his early companies he
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certainly did and this is what he did
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here and he didn't win and he's trying
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you know put light onto he's backing the
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people who were against Sam Alman he's
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been backing them a lot of people feel
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he was involved in the in the attacks on
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Sam for sure um I wouldn't I wouldn't
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put it past him um and and that uh and
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that he's just mad about it you know
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he's just wants to be in it and his
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grock is not doing as well although he
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has tons of he has tons of chance with
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Twitter I guess um but it regrets
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regrets is a nice way of saying you're a
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loser um I think in the in the thing
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thing but does it does is it bad for
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open AA even if it doesn't go to trial I
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mean he's being pushed back in his other
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trials um uh there could be some inner
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workings revealed in the discovery thing
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and of course Microsoft partnership um
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you know there's proprietary technology
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here is there any risk at
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all sure there's it I mean you have a
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company that's trying to move a million
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miles an hour that has a ton of
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different considerations while they
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think about effects on Humanity managing
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High Growth Company track I mean this is
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Sam Alman has a difficult job and all
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this does is it says okay I have no
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justification I'm just going to distract
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you and make things harder for you so it
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absolutely damages open Ai and and
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judges if they do their job will dismiss
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this type of lawsuit quickly to say you
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are getting in the way of Commerce and
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there's no legal basis here yeah I don't
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you know and generally what I find
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generally what I find is that very
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wealthy people recognize their power and
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if they have character and I I I've
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never bought the Trope the senator
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Warren or the populist Trope that rich
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people are inherently evil I've actually
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found in general very wealthy people get
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there because they have High character
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and they establish allies along the way
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like regular people and they're measured
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around litigation or somewhat measured
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they don't they don't go out of their
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way to sue people because they realize
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they have more money this guy sees
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litigation as a means of trying to True
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up the world to his standard standard
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ises that s who does that sound like his
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standard is I should control the world
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and let me let's just ask a global
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question
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here are we better off we're better off
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for Elon Musk I still believe that he's
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been a Pioneer around EVS what he's
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doing in space I don't think you'd want
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to press a button and have him disappear
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or have him move to another country but
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might it be a better idea to have him
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doing his thing and a guy like Sam Alman
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who thus far strikes me as very
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thoughtful controlling the the most
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important company in AR or would we want
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Elon mus to control it yeah there's he's
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trying to [ __ ] with them that's all he's
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doing and and it'll work they already
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are we're already talking about it some
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some embarrassing things might come out
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and not only that he's Pro Sam Alman and
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key principles to this company and key
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funders are probably a going to have to
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spend time in court or give depositions
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and also they're going to have to be
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very careful about anything they do or
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say it'll pull back their risk
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aggressiveness which is which is part of
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being an entrepreneur and growing a a
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business this is just it's bad for the
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economy it's it's bad for business it
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sets the wrong precedent for other
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people it's I mean it's just it really
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is this is what Trump does too the
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lawsuits the grieve Eng grieved lawsuits
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it's it's it's a it's a thing he's
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moving so there was a good article in
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the times about how close by David
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French about how close Elon and Trump
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are to magga like this idea of agreement
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and lawsuits and anger and this and that
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it was interesting I it's just he's such
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a loser I unfortunately I think this
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type of this type of aggressive
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litigation is effective in the sense
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that it just places a chill over society
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and business yeah he likes to do it you
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know I'd rather I mean it's just
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everybody right when billionaire it
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started with Peter teal deciding to put
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a media company out of business because
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he had a ton of money this kind of stuff
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puts a chill on journalists it puts a
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chill on investors it puts a chill on
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CEOs I mean it it it's just not it's
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it's not the
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way I I don't know how you although I
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have noticed more people pushing back
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open a pushed back really hard I I Alex
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Stamos is doing one of my interviews in
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San FR in Seattle and he wasn't talk he
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wasn't talking publicly before you know
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what I mean because he they have the
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lawsuit by Elon Elon goes around suing
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everybody like to try to shut them up
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and I think people are like like [ __ ]
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you like essentially but still it causes
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money it's expensive it it uh it creates
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all kinds of like issues two two-thirds
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of jobs are created by small and
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medium-sized businesses MH if you're say
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he just starts and I think he's already
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done this say he just any competitor
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first off he called for an AI pause
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publicly because supp he's concerned
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about the fate of the world and it comes
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out he was trying to catch up that he
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was going full force with his own AI
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efforts and had no interest in pausing
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but if if big companies just start suing
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and to be clear big Tech is guilty of
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this they just start suing small
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companies left and right they can put
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them out of business it's really
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propulsive the small company can't it's
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difficult for the small company to wait
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around for the Judgment it's difficult
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for them to recruit employees do you
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know what it's like to raise money under
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the ospice of a of a of a lawsuit filed
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by Elon Musk or quite frankly a lot of
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these companies including some of our
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favorites Apple Amazon are very quick to
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send cease and toist letters when I left
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my last company I wanted to start
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another company they immediately started
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sending me letters and I'm like okay I
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want to work I'm not going to compete
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with you but I'd like to work and in
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their view it was unless you sit around
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and do nothing for the rest of your life
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in our view you're competing with us
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that's how it came across to me and
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we're going to hire this really angry
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mean law firm and the only reason they
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back down is cuz I'm rich yeah and they
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know I can defend myself yeah but what
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if it was TW 10 years ago or 20 years
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ago when I didn't have the money and I
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was trying to start companies I would
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have I wouldn't have been able to raise
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money I I would have just backed down
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from this big bad Corporation who had
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absolutely no legal Merit none
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whatsoever every lawyer I talked to said
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yeah you're going to win this but it's
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going to cost you a bunch of money what
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if I didn't have a bunch of money yeah
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it's a it's a nuisance it's a nuisance
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lawsuit anyway Elon get some
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therapy

Episode Highlights

  • Legal Opinions on the Lawsuit
    Many lawyers believe Musk's lawsuit lacks merit and is more about grievances.
    “Most lawyers think it’s legally laughable.”
    @ 00m 49s
    March 05, 2024
  • Impact on OpenAI
    The lawsuit could distract OpenAI and slow down innovation in AI development.
    “This lawsuit damages OpenAI and sets a bad precedent for business.”
    @ 06m 40s
    March 05, 2024

Episode Quotes

Key Moments

  • Claims of Regret00:26
  • Legal Opinions00:49
  • Aggressive Litigation07:11
  • Chill on Innovation07:11

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown

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