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The Candidates on Health Care and Entitlements

October 15, 2008 / 10:21

This episode discusses health care policy, the uninsured population, and the similarities between candidates' plans. Key topics include government intervention, market solutions, and the challenges of covering the uninsured.

The conversation highlights that many Americans prefer a middle-ground approach to health care rather than extreme options. Both candidates propose plans that involve private sector participation and aim to improve quality while lowering costs.

It is noted that the uninsured demographic is diverse, with some individuals able to afford insurance but choosing not to. The discussion includes examples of individuals who may not see the need for coverage.

Challenges such as the need for increased taxes to fund health care reforms and the rising costs of new medical technologies are addressed. The episode emphasizes that both candidates have not fully articulated how they will manage these financial implications.

Finally, the episode suggests that health plans should offer a variety of options, allowing consumers to choose between high-cost and low-cost plans based on their preferences for new technologies.

TL;DR

Candidates' health care plans share similarities but face challenges in covering the uninsured and managing costs.

Episode

10:21
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[Music]
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This podcast is brought to you by
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Knowledge at Wharton. Please visit
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knowledge.warton.upen.edu
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for more information.
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I think the middle is probably where we
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ought to be if we want to get something
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done because I think the evidence shows
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that um although there are some people
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who are in favor of the extremes either
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complete government takeover of the
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health care system under a sing
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so-called singlepayer system or a
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complete market oriented system with
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little regulation and high deductible
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health plans with health savings
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accounts which has kind of been the
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right-wing's answer. U um although some
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elements of government uh intervention
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and health savings accounts are present
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in both candidates plans uh the the the
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evidence on what uh ordinary Americans
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want indicate that they don't want to go
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to either extreme. They want something
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kind of like what they have now only uh
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that's able to um deal better with
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people who uh at the moment are
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uninsured. And that's part that's
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actually somewhat feasible to deal with.
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The part that's of course much more
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challenging is they'd also like a system
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that gives them exactly the same
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benefits as they get now, just doesn't
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cost as much. Uh, and so both of the
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candidates, as you would kind of predict
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if you were a political theorist, have
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tended to occupy the middle of the
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distribution of preferences, uh,
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offering elements in their plans, uh,
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many of which are quite similar. Like
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both candidates would want to offer you
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a choice of health plans, not a single
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plan. Uh both candidates want to use uh
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the private sector to provide uh a lot
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of the insurance if not all of the
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insurance and uh and both of them uh
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envision uh uh putting in place uh some
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devices they hope will improve quality
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and lower cost like greater use of
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information technology more use of
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preventive care and things like that. So
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both in terms of their overall
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frameworks and in terms of kind of the
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specific interventions
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uh that they propose, they're actually
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more similar than different.
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The most important thing to know about
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the uninsured is there's no single way
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to characterize the uninsured. It's very
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heterogeneous group. Some of them of
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course are the kinds of people you see
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in the newspaper stories for the most
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part. uh very lowincome people, very
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sick, really sad cases and and we really
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uh you know it's hard not to read those
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stories and think somebody ought to do
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something about this. Uh but on the
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other hand, there are a fair number of
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uninsured people who are either or both
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either pretty well uh and well or pretty
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well off and still they decide not to
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take insurance and the uh the individual
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mandate in the Massachusetts plan was
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targeted at these people and the intent
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was to make them behave more
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responsibly. uh they don't do it in part
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because they have a misperception
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especially the poster child I often say
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for an uninsured person is Fonzi who was
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a healthy uh person in his 20s worked
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part-time at the motorcycle shop so
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didn't have access to group insurance
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and didn't think he would ever need
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insurance but even healthy young men uh
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may eventually need insurance but uh uh
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it's um um sometimes hard to persuade
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them that that's a better use of their
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funds than other things that they could
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spend money on. There's partly a value
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judgment there. How how much uh um do we
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think a person has to have as income
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before we be able to say they could
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afford insurance? Uh but at least one
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calculation we did, you can believe this
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or not, the definition was to say, well,
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if other people, if most other people
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like you already have private insurance,
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we would say you could afford insurance.
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And about half of the uninsured fell
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into that category. if you don't want to
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be quite that hard-nosed about it, you
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could get a smaller fraction. But, um,
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it it's it's certainly true that a um
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that a a sizable chunk of the uninsured
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uh depending on your definition of
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affordability probably could even pay
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for their own health insurance and not
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and and not be um totally unable to uh
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have adequate other consumption. Um, and
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so, uh, part of the impediment, I think,
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to covering the uninsured is that if you
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direct subsidies to all of the
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uninsured, you actually would end up
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paying a fairly large part of that
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subsidy to people who really don't need
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it. And for or and whose uh, otherwise
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similar um, uh, citizens wouldn't be
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getting the same kind of subsidy. So,
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it's it's hard to pick up everybody uh,
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with a single instrument.
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I think there's two uh at least two
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maybe more uh complicated issues that
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both candidates are trying to duck uh
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that probably a critical voter ought to
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watch for. The first one is they both uh
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want to say that they can cover the
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uninsured without um the typical
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American who after all is insured and is
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not in poor health and and um is not um
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if the person works for a large firm
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necessarily worried about their health
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insurance. They want to convince that
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person they're not going to have to pay
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much more in taxes. Uh and unfortunately
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the reality is um um according to
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nonpartisan estimates of the cost of
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these plans or even according to common
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sense uh if we want to um reduce the
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number of uninsured people in the US uh
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those of us who um have the ability to
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pay are probably going to be asked to
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use that ability to pay some amount. The
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round number I carry around in my head
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is if you're a taxpaying household in
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the US a and you want to make a dent in
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the number of uninsured neither of these
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plans will totally eliminate it. you
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ought to be thinking about an extra
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thousand dollars a year or so more in
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taxes. So people don't want to talk
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about that and the so that the mechanism
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that's actually going to collect enough
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money to uh fund the programs they're
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proposing hasn't been put in place. Uh
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the other thing that people don't want
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to talk about is that the uh primary um
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uh determinant of and driver on spending
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growth has actually not been
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inefficiency or waste or even
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conspiracies.
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Either take your pick of who you want to
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be your enemy, doctors, health insurers,
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employers trying to be nasty to workers.
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It's actually been um uh our ourselves
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who uh desire to have um improved
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healthcare technology which we have been
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able to get. Uh that's actually
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substantially improved life expectancy
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at all ages, but it's done so at a cost.
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And so if you really want to control
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cost, at least if you want to stop it
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from growing the way it's historically
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been growing, the the the difficult
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message is you may have to give up
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somewhat on um the uh rate at which you
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add beneficial but costly new
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technology. And only somebody with
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tenure actually could say that, not
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somebody running for office.
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So I don't want to be totally
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pessimistic here. each one uh has some
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things that might work and might help,
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although I'm somewhat skeptical whether
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they'll help enough. So part of the core
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of the idea that McCain is trying to
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pursue, one that I think he's had a hard
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time explaining in sound bites is that
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by um taking away uh the tax advantage
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that I get and that any employees whose
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employer provides health insurance gets,
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the tax advantage arises because Penn
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pays, I figure about $9,000 toward my
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health insurance. That's part of the
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reason why I work here, but I don't pay
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any tax on that. So, I get that tax
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break and um and I um uh because I do so
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I'm inclined to choose the most generous
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policy that's offered. I also get the
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tax break even on the part that I
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explicitly pay because we have a
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cafeteria plan. Well, McCain's idea is
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by taking away that tax break, replacing
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it with a credit, the $5,000 per family,
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2500 per person, but the credit is
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predetermined. It doesn't get any
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bigger. If you choose a more expensive
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plan, people will be incentivized to
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choose more frugal plans and that will
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help to at least lower the level of
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spending, maybe curtail it. Uh the other
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thing that actually is in both of their
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proposals is to put more effort into
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research on comparative effectiveness of
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new technologies to try to look more
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carefully at new technologies uh to
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judge which ones are really not only
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beneficial but beneficial enough uh to
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cover the cost. But as soon as you put
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in that last phrase, people start to get
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very worried. Uh what if there's a
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technology that's beneficial for me, but
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it has a really high cost. I'd really
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like somebody to pay for that for me.
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Even if I wouldn't pay for it myself, we
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kind of know uh what your mother always
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told you whenever you asked to do
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anything you shouldn't. Well, what if
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everybody did that? And that and in a
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way that's our problem. So uh that's one
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of the features that uh that is present.
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Um the the uh the main structural change
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uh and this maybe kind of shows you why
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it's implausible at least until things
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get a lot worse would be uh at least the
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way I've described it would be to think
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of people being offered a variety of
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health plans and the health plans uh
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offer as part of their product different
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attitudes toward new technology. There'd
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be the prudent care health plan that
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would wait for a while when new
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technology came out for one thing to see
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if there are side effects like there
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were with vio and wouldn't give you
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access to it right away and would limit
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access more. And then there could also
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be a plan with with of course a premium
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that rose more rapidly that would give
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you the the firstest with the mostest
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whatever you wanted and you and your
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doctor as soon as you agreed on it that
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other plan would pay for it. Uh and so
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the the at least the market solution
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would be that people would choose
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between these two plans, the high
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spending plan and the low spending plan,
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and we'd declare victory and pull out.
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They would have each gotten what they
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wanted. But um but health plans, for
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perhaps obvious marketing reasons,
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haven't been too eager to pursue
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offering the frugal plan. Most of them,
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whether they're frugal or generous,
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pretend they're generous. So, and it's
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to their advantage to do so, obviously.
00:10:08
For more information, please visit
00:10:10
knowledge.warton.upen.edu.
00:10:13
[Music]

Episode Highlights

  • Healthcare Preferences of Americans
    Most Americans prefer a middle-ground approach to healthcare, avoiding extremes.
    “They want something kind of like what they have now.”
    @ 00m 54s
    October 15, 2008
  • Understanding the Uninsured
    The uninsured are a diverse group, not easily defined by income or health status.
    “The most important thing to know about the uninsured is there’s no single way to characterize them.”
    @ 02m 07s
    October 15, 2008
  • Controlling Healthcare Costs
    To manage rising healthcare costs, sacrifices may be necessary regarding new technologies.
    “If you really want to control cost, you may have to give up somewhat on the rate at which you add beneficial but costly new technology.”
    @ 06m 40s
    October 15, 2008

Episode Quotes

  • They want something kind of like what they have now.
    The Candidates on Health Care and Entitlements

Key Moments

  • Healthcare Middle Ground00:54
  • Diversity of the Uninsured02:07
  • Cost Control Challenges06:40

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown

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