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our guest today is ganesha
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ceo of emphasis ganesh thank you so much
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for joining us today
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my pleasure so emphasis
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what is emphasis and what exactly do you
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do
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actually our business is we leverage i.t
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services
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and business process and work with our
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customers
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to help them solve their business
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problems
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and that has been our focus uh
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throughout
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in terms of size we are seventh largest
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out of india
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so that kind of defines us i refuse to
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call ourselves as an offshore i.t
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services company
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because increasingly it is not about
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being offshore
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it is about being bringing business
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value to your customers
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so uh let's stop right there you said
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you are the seventh largest indian i.t
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services company
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with six big competitors ahead of you
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in financial terms
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how do you compete and how what value
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do you bring to the customer so
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that's an interesting point because i
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just don't compete
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with those six players and they are very
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very capable
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place actually we are competing in front
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of the customer
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and ultimately customer chooses based on
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the value that you are bringing
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and the approach that you're adopting
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the strategy that you have
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the focus that you have are you able to
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solve the business problem for them
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can you work with them in a partnership
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mode do you have a delivery
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which is uh which is top class which
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does not let the customer fail
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so if you look at all that at that point
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of time there is no discussion are you
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number seven are you number five are you
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number three
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so what we have done as emphasis is we
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have
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selected few customers
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we have selected few countries because
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as a billion dollar company we cannot be
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everything to everyone
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and these customers roughly about 75
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customers that we are focused on
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we are focused on five countries we
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bring the best of emphasis to them
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and my job as a ceo is to make sure that
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the best of
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emphasis is better than what anybody
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else can provide to that customer
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so that's what i do for living so let's
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take an ex
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specific example of of one of those 75
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customers
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what could you do for just give me any
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example of
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a project that you have done for a
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customer and that
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adds value that may be different than
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one of your competitors could have
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offered
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see the the point is um i'm fairly
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certain that many people
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can do something similar that that we do
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the question is are they better than us
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in that number two are they focused on
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that customer
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are you able to demonstrate a track
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record with that customer
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it is not enough to say i exist in the
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marketplace
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because this is about unique challenges
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faced by that customer
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to solve those problems so whether you
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look at
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client onboarding solution whether you
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look at risk and compliance solution for
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the mortgage industry
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or you're looking at solutions which are
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in the crm space if you're
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if you're a bank all these areas
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many many service providers exist what
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we specialize in
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is not the technology it is not the
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services
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it is about knowing the customer
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ensuring
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technology services together become a
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solution
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in enabling that business outcome for
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our customers
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so you became the ceo of emphasis
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in 2009 what was your mandate
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and what was your vision for the company
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see
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it has evolved over a period of time a
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mandate
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you know traditionally if you're a
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listed company
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every ceo will start saying that my job
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is to create shareholder
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wealth we adopted a slightly different
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approach
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because shareholder wealth is an outcome
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it cannot be the objective for the ceo
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so my focus as a ceo is
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creating value for my customers and that
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too
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a value which is sustainable value it
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changes with time
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it changes with technology because there
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is no such thing that this solution
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which was good
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in 2010 would be good in 2014. the
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business model which was good in 2010
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would be good in 2014. so the whole
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vision
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mission our approach has evolved over a
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period of time
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and what i needed to ensure is that we
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are in tune
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with our customers and changing
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marketplace in fact customers
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customerify me
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got it so you you talked about creating
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shareholder value
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and and your biggest shareholder uh
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hp also used to be your biggest customer
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but
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based on my understanding of emphasis
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uh hp has basically cut uh
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emphasis loose and you almost have to
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reinvent yourself
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as as uh providing uh services to the
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market
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uh how have you navigated this
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particular challenge
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so let me give my answer in two parts
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let me give you the first part our
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relationship with hp
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we have two types of relationship with
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hp one as a shareholder
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second as a customer and these two
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relationships are not mixed
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because both hp as a bigger share owner
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doesn't want to see any dilution in
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corporate governance and we
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don't want to see any dilution in
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corporate governance so there is
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complete meeting of mines there
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as far as customer is concerned in 2009
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when we looked at the data
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as as the board of the of the company we
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saw the concentration risk
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had gone up because 72 percent of our
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revenue was coming from hp
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so that was actually a trigger for our
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transformation
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many times you know companies transform
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based on certain triggers certain events
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and some of them are external events
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some of them are internal events our
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trigger was we felt that the
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concentration risk is very high 72
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percent
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and our direct business was not growing
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so these were the two triggers which
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caused us to kind of step back and say
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what do we do
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and that started the first wave of our
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transformation
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we said we want to bring the value of
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hyper specialization to our customers
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and we picked two industry verticals
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banking capital market and insurance we
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picked
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we were operating in 16 different
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countries we said we will focus on eight
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countries
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so the whole strategy was based on inch
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wide mile deep
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and we started building value in terms
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of knowledge
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depth and there were lots of good things
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going for emphasis
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we were arguably we were the birthplace
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of bpo
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from india right so that was our
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heritage
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we had very budding and and growing
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practice around
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um applications and infrastructure so we
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brought the power
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focused on that was our first wave of
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transformation
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now we are on to our third wave what was
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the
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what was the second wave so second wave
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we basically said
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you know as a billion dollar company
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marketplace is changing
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can i change the marketplace absolutely
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not
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we are too small to change the
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marketplace so how can i become more
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valuable so we adopted
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a strategy of named account we said we
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want to focus on select accounts
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initially it was select industry select
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countries
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we went further focused select accounts
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whether it is existing customers or new
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logos so we created a sales force which
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is compensated
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only if you are able to get business
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from these customers
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and that was our wave 2 and we also
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created a solution specialized sales
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force
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now wave three that we are in we are
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focused on being a positive disrupter
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in other words bringing the value of the
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new world to our customers
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reinventing ourselves challenging the
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status quo
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and defining that new world in the
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context of value creation
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disruptors are somebody who take the
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value out of the system
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we want to be a positive disrupter in
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other words destroy the old value
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but replace it with new value in equal
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if not
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in greater terms give me an example of
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positive disruption
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and how you've implemented that for one
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of your customers so if you
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see the newer model of i.t services
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consumption
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what is very popular is anything as a
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service now the traditional model in
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which
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offshore companies have operated is time
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and material and in some cases fixed
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price
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now the moment you move to anything as a
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service model
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what it does is it brings variability
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into the cost for from the customer
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standpoint
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and they are not looking at offshore
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they are looking at
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either transaction based pricing it
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could be business transaction
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or it could be an i.t transaction now
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when you do that
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it has the potential of disrupting the
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traditional
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model of providing people
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to a client or just doing traditional
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offshoring
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so you're destroying that value but by
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bringing anything as a service you're
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replacing it with a higher
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ip higher knowledge higher partnership
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with the customer so that is a classic
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example
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of disrupting the old value chain
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replacing it with a new one and creating
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new value
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and you should be prepared to
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cannibalize your own business
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so i'll come back to the question of
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strategy but let me ask you first a
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related question so you have made
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four acquisitions aigss
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fortify wide corporation and digital
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risk
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could you tell me a little bit about
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what were your goals for each of these
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acquisitions
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and how that fit into your overall plan
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and your overall strategy for emphasis
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see um we defined our strategy first
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and we said this we defined that this is
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in 2010 this is where we want to be
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2011 this is where we want to be 12 13.
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now at that stage uh the there were
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three choices in front of us in select
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areas
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build buy or partner
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now and and then you assess whether by
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buying
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can it accelerate the pace of your
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strategic pursuit
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and can you mitigate the risk of
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acquisition because in technology field
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majority of acquisitions
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actually fail we were very careful
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and we went through this you know
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process of
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ensuring that these are good
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acquisitions but that is the
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beginning of it's almost like choosing a
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life partner right you do
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all the screening but after the marriage
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you have to ensure that it is nurtured
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properly for a successful marriage
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so we also focused on integration we
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adopted models ranging from tightly
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coupled
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right tightly governed or loosely
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coupled
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and and tightly governed do we allow the
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the
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brand of that company so digital risk is
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actually
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loosely coupled and tightly governed
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digital risk has a very
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vibrant uh brand they are known in
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risk and compliance area of u.s
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residential mortgage
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it didn't make sense for us to kill that
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brand we have let that structure remain
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intact
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in fact we have nurtured it further and
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they are doing a stellar job
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so you horses for courses you cannot say
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that this is
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my integration strategy and you apply it
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uniformly across whatever integration
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and one more thing which we are
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extremely careful about
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do not acquire to fill the gap in your
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revenue
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because the moment you do that you may
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be renting the revenue for a short while
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and you may have a bigger gap in time to
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come
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what's your assessment of the
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global i.t services market today and
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what kind of
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opportunities and risks does that create
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for emphasis
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in fact you know i have a controversial
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point of view on i.t services excellent
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i'd love to hear it
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uh see the um i believe
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the way it services are being sold and
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consumed today
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may cease to exist in years to come in
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fact
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i will go to the extent in a people may
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not buy it services
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in let's say five to six years time
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nothing called it services may be
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procured
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so if you are an i.t services business
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what do you do about it
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right because the concept may be it
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services inside
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rather than saying i buy it services
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so that being the case people may be
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buying business transactions
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maybe buying business outcome
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significant amount of automation and
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innovation
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will eliminate what shall i say human
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intervention
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in a significant manner when all this
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happens
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how do you exist and how do you survive
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how do you thrive how do you prosper
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how do you kind of excel and that's the
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the roadmap that we have developed for
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emphasis
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our belief is that i.t services in
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itself
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will grow but in not in its traditional
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form
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and we have prepared the organization as
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part of our third wave of transformation
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to take us towards that being a positive
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disrupter
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to enter the arena of new range of
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services
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and which we are leveraging our named
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account strategy because
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we want to do it in collaboration with
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our customers
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right and being just focused on select
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customers does
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give us that opportunity to do so so
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let's
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you know uh dive a little deeper into
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into the question of strategy
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uh can you explain a little more about
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what your strategic vision is uh
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especially in the area of strategy
00:14:30
positive disruption and what lessons can
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other companies learn from
00:14:34
emphasis experience in this regard
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so um the positive disruption as i
00:14:41
described it
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the whole idea is to create new set of
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value chain
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and by ensuring that you're taking your
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customers along with it so it's a
00:14:50
positive disruption that view
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but i also want to highlight one more
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thing we operate at the confluence of
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people
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planet and profit so it is extremely
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important for
00:15:02
all corporates including us to be a
00:15:04
responsible citizen and ensuring that we
00:15:07
are taking the community along with us
00:15:09
we are ensuring that we are balanced
00:15:11
between profit and and
00:15:13
and doing the right thing so that is the
00:15:15
confluence in which we are
00:15:17
we are operating now sharing the lessons
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with others
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to to have a point of view that
00:15:23
transformation will end
00:15:25
especially if you're a technology
00:15:26
company is probably a myth
00:15:29
because by the time you believe that
00:15:32
that a transformation has ended
00:15:35
something new you will have to do so
00:15:37
instead of saying that
00:15:39
i have transformation one two and three
00:15:42
we describe it as that we are on a
00:15:44
transformation journey
00:15:46
we did wave one we are doing wave two
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and we are on to our wave three
00:15:51
as a ceo my job is to ensure that these
00:15:54
waves are interconnected they are
00:15:55
leveraging each other rather than acting
00:15:57
in conflict of each other
00:15:59
and continuously and as part of
00:16:02
transformation
00:16:03
most important challenge is
00:16:06
changing people's mindset
00:16:10
changing organization structure
00:16:12
measurement system
00:16:13
incentive schemes these are all easy
00:16:16
things easier rather
00:16:17
not easy easier so the physical aspect
00:16:21
of transformation is easier chemical
00:16:23
aspect is extremely tough
00:16:26
and to be honest successful
00:16:28
transformation requires you to manage
00:16:30
the chemical transformation well
00:16:33
and which is around people
00:16:36
and and as a ceo initially i thought
00:16:40
by changing the measurement system
00:16:42
incentive scheme
00:16:44
it be it it works actually that's a myth
00:16:48
so ceo has to be leading front
00:16:52
front he has to be an enabler for rest
00:16:55
of the team to leverage the
00:16:57
transformation
00:16:58
he cannot expect that the teams will
00:17:00
change automatically
00:17:02
series of workshop communication and
00:17:05
and just changing the measurement system
00:17:07
alone won't do the trick
00:17:09
so how do you bring about a chemical
00:17:10
transformation you bring about by first
00:17:13
of all personifying the transformation
00:17:15
yourself as a ceo
00:17:16
and ensuring that your customers
00:17:20
are with you uh your employees are with
00:17:22
you
00:17:23
and your board is with you by
00:17:26
actually demonstrating success so you
00:17:29
have to work on few such cases
00:17:32
making them into a success and and to be
00:17:34
a learning leader yourself
00:17:36
because you may have thought that this
00:17:38
is what you want to do in some
00:17:40
small percentage of cases you will have
00:17:42
to make a u-turn and and reset the
00:17:44
direction
00:17:45
you should be prepared for that because
00:17:46
you're staring at the future without
00:17:48
having all the data at your disposal
00:17:50
and deciding that this is where you want
00:17:52
to head so
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so one of the things which which i get
00:17:56
assisted by my direct reports is
00:17:59
they are authentic they give me the
00:18:00
feedback and i should be prepared to
00:18:02
listen to them
00:18:03
as to what's working what's not working
00:18:05
including to the person who is right at
00:18:07
the field level
00:18:08
and that's how i keep myself motivated
00:18:11
i have done many mistakes in this
00:18:13
journey last five years
00:18:15
certainly not proud of them but i am not
00:18:18
afraid to commit mistakes because if i
00:18:20
become
00:18:20
afraid of committing mistakes i'll not
00:18:22
try something new
00:18:24
what's the biggest mistake that you've
00:18:26
made and what did you learn from it
00:18:28
and just to add to it what's been your
00:18:30
biggest accomplishment and what did you
00:18:31
learn from it
00:18:33
see um to say that uh something as a
00:18:36
biggest mistake
00:18:37
um i don't know whether i can rank them
00:18:40
biggest and
00:18:41
whatnot i have committed enough mistakes
00:18:44
so i'll
00:18:44
tell you one of the things which i have
00:18:46
learned is that
00:18:47
many a times your biggest strength is
00:18:49
your biggest weakness
00:18:51
so um i absolutely love
00:18:55
working with people people are my
00:18:57
strength
00:18:58
and at the same time people are my
00:19:00
weakness so
00:19:01
um i struggle at some point of time to
00:19:04
to come to terms with the fact that
00:19:06
somebody needs to be taken out
00:19:08
but and and uh so i have a team which
00:19:11
advises me on that because i make sure
00:19:13
that my weakness is
00:19:15
uh is kind of that gap is covered by
00:19:18
having a good team with me
00:19:20
who is able to advise me on the on those
00:19:22
uh things
00:19:24
and my biggest accomplishment is
00:19:27
to have a very capable trusted
00:19:31
authentic team reporting to me
00:19:34
because they have been instrumental in
00:19:37
many ways
00:19:38
taking us from where we were at one
00:19:41
point of time
00:19:41
our direct business stood at 28
00:19:45
of our total revenue today this that's
00:19:48
very same business it stands at
00:19:52
63 percent of our revenue and this is
00:19:54
over a period of about three and a half
00:19:56
years
00:19:57
so i give credit to to my direct team
00:20:00
members
00:20:01
who have enabled it and most importantly
00:20:04
as a ceo of a listed company you need to
00:20:07
have a board
00:20:08
which is challenging you but is
00:20:10
supportive of of the strategy
00:20:13
so i'm blessed with with members who
00:20:16
come from diverse background
00:20:17
they keep me honest they challenge me
00:20:20
and but they are completely supportive
00:20:22
of the strategy
00:20:23
so you have to take these stakehold
00:20:25
holders along in your journey of
00:20:27
transformation
00:20:28
what do you think should be the role of
00:20:30
a ceo
00:20:32
in reimagining strategy
00:20:35
very very interesting question um
00:20:40
i i don't know whether i can comment on
00:20:42
role of a ceo
00:20:43
but i believe i keep myself young
00:20:46
by learning
00:20:50
so being present at warton listening to
00:20:52
you
00:20:54
i will get an opportunity to talk to the
00:20:56
students i spoke to some of the faculty
00:20:58
members
00:20:59
similarly talking to my employees when i
00:21:02
go and visit some schools those students
00:21:04
so when you listen to all these things
00:21:06
you realize
00:21:07
what is happening in the real world i
00:21:09
spend a lot of time with startups
00:21:11
they share with you how they view the
00:21:12
world so being a
00:21:15
listening leader i believe is
00:21:18
extremely important to be uh to be
00:21:22
successful
00:21:23
and that too if you're a ceo you have to
00:21:25
demonstrate that ability to listen
00:21:28
learn and then lead i'd like to end with
00:21:31
a couple of personal questions if you
00:21:33
don't mind
00:21:33
sure uh as a ceo
00:21:37
what do you would you say is the
00:21:40
greatest leadership
00:21:41
challenge you faced how did you deal
00:21:44
with it and what did you learn from it
00:21:47
so the first challenge was when i was
00:21:50
appointed as a ceo this is my very first
00:21:52
role as a ceo
00:21:55
and i came in because i had
00:21:58
i guess they chose me because i had done
00:22:01
the previous roles extremely well
00:22:04
and when i walked into this role the
00:22:07
fact that you're chosen
00:22:08
and the fact that you have done previous
00:22:10
roles well can you tell me a little bit
00:22:12
about your previous roles sure
00:22:14
so i i have done roles ranging from
00:22:17
in a major technology company i was
00:22:20
their i.t
00:22:21
offshore i mean sorry outsourcing head
00:22:23
for asia pacific
00:22:25
and before that i was a head of
00:22:27
southeast asia for i.t services of
00:22:30
that company i was managing director of
00:22:33
india for that
00:22:35
company so i've done different roles by
00:22:37
training i'm a chartered accountant
00:22:39
so i'm a finance guy who went into sales
00:22:41
then
00:22:43
rose through rank and file to to occupy
00:22:45
that position
00:22:46
so coming back to the point which i was
00:22:48
trying to make you think
00:22:49
that what you have done a and which has
00:22:52
earned you the role of a ceo
00:22:54
prepares you well for a ceo i was in
00:22:58
for a shock because role of a ceo is
00:23:01
very very different from being a senior
00:23:05
business leader
00:23:06
in a company because multiple dimensions
00:23:09
of this role
00:23:10
there are today 36 000 employees are
00:23:14
counting on me to ensure that their
00:23:17
future is bright
00:23:18
there are number of customers who look
00:23:21
at you as mr emphasis
00:23:24
and then you have shareholders who have
00:23:26
expectations from the company
00:23:28
so first of all the stakeholders change
00:23:30
dramatically and you think you are
00:23:31
prepared because you have been
00:23:32
successful in previous role
00:23:34
to me that was a biggest eye-opener
00:23:38
and you know and many ways i was
00:23:41
reminded of that
00:23:42
by looking at my performance so i
00:23:45
adopted an approach
00:23:47
which was at least some people found it
00:23:50
strange and but i found it very useful
00:23:54
having completed about three years as a
00:23:56
ceo
00:23:57
i said i'm going to call the first three
00:24:00
years of a ceo as a somebody different
00:24:03
even though i was the ceo and i'm going
00:24:06
to assume that i'm a new ceo now
00:24:08
and i'm going to assess the performance
00:24:10
of previous ceo
00:24:11
and i'm going to ask my team what did
00:24:14
the previous ceo do
00:24:15
well and didn't do well so that way you
00:24:17
take that emotional attachment to your
00:24:20
own actions and your own legacy decision
00:24:22
i went through a very structured formal
00:24:24
process of doing that assessment
00:24:27
and then i published what is this new
00:24:30
ceo going to do
00:24:31
i made it public to my team members i
00:24:34
sent out an email that these are the
00:24:36
behaviors i'm going to show these are
00:24:37
the objectives i'm going to achieve
00:24:39
these are the changes i'm going to make
00:24:41
so that
00:24:42
when you publish it you have no choice
00:24:45
but to change
00:24:47
so otherwise you face public
00:24:48
embarrassment right and ceos are
00:24:50
actually very afraid of
00:24:52
public embarrassment so so i was ready
00:24:55
to be embarrassed if i don't do it i
00:24:56
published it my team was supportive
00:24:59
in fact some of them loved it so much
00:25:01
that they did it themselves
00:25:03
right and uh so so that was uh
00:25:06
so if i may uh started with uh
00:25:09
with the wrong notion as to that i am
00:25:12
ready for ceo job
00:25:14
but then i learned it quickly correct
00:25:17
course corrected then i after three
00:25:20
years i looked back
00:25:21
as if it was somebody else who was doing
00:25:23
it and again i'm start
00:25:24
started the new journey we are on to
00:25:27
wave three of transformation
00:25:29
and uh and i'm very very confident
00:25:32
and of of our wave three
00:25:35
and and very very proud of my team
00:25:38
because
00:25:38
uh you know they have kept me honest
00:25:42
and and i can also tell you my five
00:25:44
years as a ceo i will not trade it for
00:25:46
anything else
00:25:47
so when you did your uh midterm
00:25:49
assessment
00:25:50
or three-year assessment what sort of a
00:25:53
grade did the previous ceo get
00:25:56
an a a b or a c um
00:25:59
you know i'm fairly certain some of my
00:26:01
own board members will be watching this
00:26:03
so
00:26:04
regardless of what they're watching i'm
00:26:06
going to be authentic about how i rated
00:26:08
myself
00:26:09
i gave me three out of five and
00:26:13
and my aspiration is over a period of
00:26:16
time can i score six out of five
00:26:19
and it's a tough journey and i'm not
00:26:22
i'm not cocky about it but what i'm
00:26:25
trying to do is
00:26:26
to be relevant with times to work with
00:26:29
my team members
00:26:30
to listen to youngsters who are creating
00:26:33
a very vibrant world
00:26:35
and to be in tune so i would like to
00:26:37
stay young forever a teenaged
00:26:39
ceo if i may uh one last question ganesh
00:26:44
how do you define success success is
00:26:47
not what you do when you're around
00:26:49
success is
00:26:50
when you're not there how people rate
00:26:53
you after you have left the scene
00:26:55
so it is about leaving a legacy behind
00:26:59
it is leaving something which is which
00:27:01
sustains
00:27:03
leaving somewhere where your successor
00:27:06
is somebody who comes from within your
00:27:09
own ranks
00:27:10
so that they they have an opportunity
00:27:13
to ensure that you have done succession
00:27:16
planning
00:27:17
and to have a strategy and execution
00:27:19
which people talk about
00:27:21
so to me that is success many people say
00:27:24
it is
00:27:24
reaching the share price this kind of
00:27:27
total shareholder returns to me those
00:27:30
are all
00:27:30
outcomes but to me success is leaving a
00:27:33
very
00:27:34
very positive sustainable legacy behind
00:27:37
ganesh thank you so much for speaking
00:27:39
with knowledge at wharton thank you so
00:27:46
much
00:28:04
you
