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I'd like to welcome Ganesh AER who is
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the CEO of emphasis which is a IT
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services company and also Mike Yim who's
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A Wharton management Professor uh and
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he's also the director of Wharton Center
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for leadership and change management
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thanks uh both of you for coming in
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today to talk about the personal
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transformation that has to take place uh
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for Business Leaders especially CEOs the
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top leaders the top team
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uh when they're companies trying to
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undergo companywide digital
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transformation so we hear a lot about
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the need for companies to transform
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themselves digitally uh because they're
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not going to stay competitive if they
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don't do that what we don't hear very
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much about is this idea that before a
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company can change that the leader has
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to have a personal
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transformation um to understand what
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digital means to the world and to his
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company in particular and I think what's
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interesting about that is why is that
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transformation often difficult for the
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CEO and some of the things that come up
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are things like ego reluctant uh to look
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foolish in front of subordinates these
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are things behind the scenes that we
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don't often hear about um there's denial
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there's fear of failure all of these
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things can hamper see CEO's performance
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when it comes to digital transformation
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so I'd like to hear your views about
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those challenges and
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how the the CEO and other top leaders uh
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can work to overcome them uh Ganesh
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let's start with you so probably I'll
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give you some my own personal journey
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and um I wanted to get onto the
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Facebook and uh I approached my teenage
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daughter
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and she said I'll help you to set up the
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account and um then I asked her a
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question is what's the difference
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between email and
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Facebook so at that stage I realized how
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ignorant I was and then suddenly in the
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last 2 three years the buzzword is
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digital you're seeing 3D printing you're
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seeing robotics artificial intelligence
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now people are talking about driverless
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cars tools and automation exp in every
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industry and sphere of work so I
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actually did an introspection and
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said am I the right person to lead this
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great company called emphasis to its
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success in the new digital world because
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I had to be authentic and honest if I'm
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not the right person to allow somebody
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else to lead the company rather than
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pretending I'm the right
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person 30 years of working in the
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industry was a baggage because you build
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your muscle memory so I would say the
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first thing is realization whether you
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need to change is the first point that I
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had to confront and once I came to that
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realization then I started I put up a
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mind map to figure out why what would
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prevent me from learning I'll come to
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that later but I would say the starting
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point for the CEO is recognition that
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they have to change
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it requires fundamentally change in
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their learning new skills to be acquired
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and after that the Journey Begins there
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are lots of hurdles in that Journey but
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I'll let you get to mik rather than
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going on forever on this question so
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this is a a personal transformation yeah
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well to pick up what Ganesha has said uh
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I think the underlying challenge that
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everybody including Ganesha faces is
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that the pace of change is simply put
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accelerated so the technolog is out
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there what customers want more rapidly
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turning over or changing now than say 15
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or 20 years ago historically thus
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companies did have the privilege if you
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take the clock back 10 or 15 years of
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changing CEOs as the market changed and
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in at least the US to some degree in
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India as well Chief Executives
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historically have usually served
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somewhere between 5 and 10 years and
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that was sort of the pace of ch change
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so New Era new CEO is replaced in the
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old one you got a different kind of
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person now in that new era the problem
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now though is that the pace of change is
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not let's say five or 10 years the waves
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are not that that long they're more like
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18 months and thus uh Ganesh and people
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uh with comparable positions are really
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having to reinvent themselves otherwise
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they're going to get reinvented uh by
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the market they're facing and the
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digital transformation that we're
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thinking about we all know about uh if
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anything has an even shorter time cycle
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than just about anything else that we
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know out there thus uh back to ganesha's
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reference to Facebook and acquiring what
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you you need to know to navigate that I
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think it's incumbent on all of us top
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Executives and Frontline managers to get
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up to speed on the digital
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transformation that is literally turning
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a five or 10 year cycle in in the way
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markets work into a five or 10 months
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ccle these
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days you you made reference Ganesh to
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mind mapping or sort of sort of you know
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a shift in thinking uh uh when it comes
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to this so what did you mean by that and
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and how did you accomplish that for
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yourself so you know I started
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identifying what are the inhibitors for
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me to
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change and uh uh I identified
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ego
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ignorance fear of failure these these
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are uh the three factors which I felt
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would prevent me from
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changing because uh for me to go and
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admit that I don't know please teach me
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and going and to a teenager or to a
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fresher within the company sitting next
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to him or her saying please take me
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through what are you doing for the
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customer what are the demands of the
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customer I had to shed those
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elements first I mean give up my ego
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and reach deep down within the
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organization basically let learning and
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Innovation come from all across the
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organization that was the starting point
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uh in my mind map which led me to
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various activities that I undertook over
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the last 18 months to say that I have
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become a digital expert is definitely
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not true but in the last 18 months I
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have fully realized the power that
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digital Wheels
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the opportunity it offers to a company
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like emphasis and it is an opportunity
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for us to Surge ahead and I need to take
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the ownership of transformation of this
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company and that Journey started 18
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months ago as I mentioned and you know
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picking up on that I I like the the
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underlying notion that this is something
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you just have to do getting it done is
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something else but without that
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commitment to master this new digital
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terrain uh none of us are going anywhere
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where with that commitment though uh
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turning to your children or for example
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and my guess is Ganesh has this in his
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own company uh ge has long had a
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practice of what they call reverse
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mentoring normally we think of mentoring
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of somebody 15 20 years ahead of us kind
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of sharing their wisdom and helping us
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as the new generation learn uh what
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they've already long known reverse
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mentoring means nothing more than taking
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people who are 20 years younger who have
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been raised on the the digital platform
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and being willing without the ego
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getting in the way to listen you have to
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be willing to listen and learn from
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people who are much younger in much
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lower positions of authority uh because
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they are just a great uh source of
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thinking about uh what the company needs
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what you can learn and uh to be able to
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work with reverse mentoring I think is
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maybe one of the most um most fruitful
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uh directions to go just add though uh
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from a lot of research that's out there
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on digital transformation and and how we
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need to navigate our way through it uh
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we have to become I think an extremely
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good
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listener uh again we know a lot if we're
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in a position of of um uh great
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Authority but the world is changing so
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fast that if we're not actively
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listening through social media if we're
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not digesting if we're not analyzing
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what's out there uh we're going to be at
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a disadvantage as well so to get back to
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the main point taking charge of your own
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transformation is the first step and
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then the second step with that as a
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commitment is turning to your children
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to reverse mentors and just getting your
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intent out there to hear what's going
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on uh Mike you wrote a seminal book um
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which was on leadership called the
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leaders checklist and it put forth 15
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Mission critical principles uh for
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managing a company is is there a a
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digital checklist for leaders that uh
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that you could draw on uh through your
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book that would help CEOs and and let's
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say the top team to think about this
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this whole idea of
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transformation yes and let me briefly
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reference the idea of a checklist and
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then we'll get into the substance the
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idea of a checklist is um you've got a
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uh a list of mission critical steps you
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just have to be Savvy about you have to
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take and the traditional leaders
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checklist would include just to pick out
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three items to illustrate the point the
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ability to think
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strategically to communicate
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persuasively and to decide decisively if
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you haven't got all three of those
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you're probably not going to lead very
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well and there probably another dozen I
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would add on to that having said that
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again when it comes to the digital
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terrain that we all are on it's
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treacherous I'm going to briefly
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reference two such lists that are out
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there and I love to hear Ganesh pick up
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on this and maybe add to what I'm about
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to very Briefly summarize our school
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published a book this year it's got a
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great subtitle the main title the
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engaged leader subtitle a strategy for
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your digital transformation and Charlene
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Lee the author there really has three
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checklist items here they are number one
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you have to become an extremely Adept
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listener
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through through all the traditional
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means and now through digital media as
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well number two you have to become
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extremely good at using those sources of
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information coming in to get information
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out so listening in and in Sharing out
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and then number three and this really is
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something that I would not have
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anticipated five or 10 years ago there
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is so much competition for attention
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that you also have to become extremely
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good at engaging those that are hearing
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where you want to take the company so in
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five or 10 years back maybe 20 years
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back a memo comes out from the corner
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office everybody reads that and they
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kind of got their marching orders uh
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doesn't work that way anymore to say the
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the obvious so
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listening uh communicating out and then
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especially on that latter Point number
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three learning how to engage people in
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ways that are much more more challenging
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now a second checklist uh this comes
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from a nano tool we do Nano tools here
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and a couple people have put together a
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nano tool on this very topic and I'm
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going to pick out three items that they
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offer a checklist for a top executive or
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anybody really in management to be
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concerned with number one you have to
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have compelling content again because
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the information world is so cluttered
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with competing messages number two you
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have to find ways of what the author of
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this n authors of the Nano tool refer to
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as distributional leverage so how do you
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actually get the information out to all
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15,000 people who are working for you uh
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number three you have to become very
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good at filtering and analyzing data
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coming in again so much megabytes of
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data coming uh hourly into our office we
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need to master the art of digital
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filtering and
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analyzing and I think number four this
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is pretty much a summary for why we're
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even talking about this
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topic without quite realizing how the
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Advent of digital technology and
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information has affecting the
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world it has become a genuinely
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disruptive force in the best sense of
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disruptive
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Innovations for every market and so the
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fourth digital leaders checklist here is
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even if you are secure let's say in the
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Halls The Groves of academ here it's
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coming here it's come to the New York
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Times it's coming to GE it's coming
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everywhere I'll stop on that Ganesha you
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probably have a item or two to add to a
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leaders checklist on digital everything
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so you know um promoting a culture of
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experimentation because uh compressed
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cycle Innovation newer ways of doing
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things so promoting a culture of
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experimentation second thing
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is the guts to cannibalize your own
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business totally and the last one which
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uh I heard from other people and which
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we have which was very well
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articulated world of co-opting or
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co-creating so you can do a lot more by
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co-opting
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other players to join hands with you so
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that you can succeed together it could
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be your customer it could be your
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partner so these are the three
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attributes which probably in the analog
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world we didn't need to conf we didn't
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need to confront or inject as much but
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uh I certainly hope that you know every
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employee within emphasis is is
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repurposed or is excited about the
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experimentation coop co-opting and
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co-creation and last but not least we as
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Leaders within the company shouldn't be
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afraid to cannibalize our analog
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business to make progress in digital
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totally thanks very much for joining us
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gentlemen thank you
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[Music]
