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the 2009 wharton india economic forum
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titled india the road ahead took place
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in philadelphia and brought together
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CEOs of leading Indian companies
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investors heads of nonprofit
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organizations sports celebrities and
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Bollywood stars to discuss where India
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is headed in an age of economic
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uncertainty Indian knowledge at Wharton
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brings you one-on-one conversations with
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these leaders so thank you so much for
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joining us today pleasure my pleasure
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let's start with a very basic question
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how did you get interested in cricket
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was it because of your uncle yes that
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was a factor all right obviously when
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you have somebody in your family playing
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cricket and playing trigger at the
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highest level then automatically you do
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get interested but I would imagine that
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a lot of boys in in Mumbai would would
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take to cricket simply because you know
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cricket was is the sport in Mumbai like
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you would say hockey in Punjab and maybe
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football soccer in in Kolkata and say
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Goa and Kerala cricket was the main game
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in in Mumbai so it would be easy to take
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up to that but of course having an uncle
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who was an India player or was a big
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factor in India and many cricket playing
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nations your your track record is well
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known but in the u.s. and baseball
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playing nations people are not familiar
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with you know the kind of achievements
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you've had could you just take us take
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us through some of those records that
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you set over the years not really for me
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I don't really I mean don't don't look
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back at all it's gone it's as far as I'm
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concerned you know that was a part of my
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life where I was fortunate to be able to
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represent India for 16 17 years and to
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be part of some you know great
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experiences great moments in in the
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history of of Indian cricket so you know
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I really consider myself very very
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fortunate to have been able to represent
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my country that that's very nice very
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modest answer I do remember one of your
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rec
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was that you scored 34 centuries and in
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Test cricket and that I think that
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record was not broken for more than 20
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years if I remember right
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the question I'd like to ask about that
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is to have those kinds of achievements
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what kind of qualities and attributes do
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you need to cultivate within yourself I
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think focus determination a fair amount
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of discipline which is not the the
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discipline which which which is normally
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associated with the word discipline
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where you think of you know having an
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early night you know going to sleep at
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10 o'clock waking up at 6 not well that
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discipline is important as well but the
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discipline to mould your game according
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to the needs of the situation you need
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that kind of discipline and I think so
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these are these are the elements that
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are necessary I would imagine there
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would be part of any any vocation any
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profession the 3 DS that I believed in
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discipline dedication and determination
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and you know I think those those have to
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be part of you to be able to take your
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father explain how you did that in the
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case of developing your own ability as a
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cricketer well for example I mean as far
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as dedication was concerned you know I'd
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say that I would practice a lot I
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practice in the morning I'd practice in
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the afternoon said three hours in the
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morning then go to school and then after
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school again practice for another two
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and a half three hours so you needed to
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balance your studies your education
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along with with the practice are simply
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because the time that I played cricket
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was not a career option it's become a
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it's a it's become a very very good
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career option now with with kind of
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money that has come into this sport and
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good and and that's that's terrific but
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it wasn't a career option then so you're
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to sort of balance your studies as well
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as your cricket your love for the game
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and which meant that you had to show the
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the dedication to practice you've got to
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show the discipline to be able to go
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back to your to your books and to to
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study and so as I suppose all that at an
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at an early age to be able to do that at
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an early age to be able to balance that
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out certainly went a long way in helping
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me in my in my cricketing
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career and and how do those attributes
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translate over from cricket to say
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business life well I mean it's it's
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pretty much the same in the sense that
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you've got to in business you've got to
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try and study you know what the
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situation is study the opponent though
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of course in you would like to think
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that it's it's not not a business that
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is that is limited to a few that there
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is there is plenty of scope for
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everybody to come in and get a share of
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share of the pie as they would call it
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so I would imagine that it's got to be
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there's got to be a bit of study there's
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got to be a lot of hard work involved
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you've got to do a lot of background you
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know in cricket for example your batting
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and you you know what the opposition
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bowling is going to be like you want to
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say to yourself overnight and you know
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what the pitch is likely to be then you
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want to say to your cell overnight maybe
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you don't play this shot earlier on
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maybe you don't play that shot earlier
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on maybe you just try and play in a
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certain manner till the bowlers tired or
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till the till the the new ball becomes
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old til the shine wears off the ball and
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then you can expand the range of your
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shots and I would imagine that's the
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same thing that you would want to get
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into business in the sense start slowly
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have ambitions definitely have ambitions
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start slowly and as you settle in as you
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start to get the hang of business then
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you try and expand and I think that's
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that's something I would imagine that
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you know what what was applicable on the
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cricket field was applicable as far as
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my business was concerned did you take a
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lot of risk in the way you played
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cricket no no I don't think so
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because I was an opening batsman and we
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were brought up to 2sq all risks to be
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able to play a risk free cricket as much
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as possible
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and tired of the bowlers out so then the
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the batsmen coming down the say that
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number three four five or four or five
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six the glamour boys as they call it we
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were we were the plotters we were the
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plotters you know who did all the hard
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work you know pave the road as you can
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say you know for the for the guys so we
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walked the road and the others so that
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the others could drive a car on it so so
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that's that's why you know we were
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brought up to play cricket but I would
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imagine that
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your attitude towards risk in the game
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would also translate over to risk in
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business I would imagine sighs yes
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imagine so because of the of the
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upbringing that you had and at their
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bringing if the upbringing was to be
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careful to ensure that there wasn't any
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risk involved that would be different I
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would imagine that today's day and age
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it would be totally different because
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today with the t20 we're risks are taken
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in the game right from ball one if
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anybody wants to get into business it
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would probably be in a different kind of
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you know atmosphere that he would go
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into the other thing that fascinates me
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about cricket is the factor of it being
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a team sport what kind of lessons in
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teamwork did yours in cricket teach you
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well first and foremost as the batsman
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who cannot score runs or cannot scores
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score a century unless you have somebody
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batting at the other end for you on this
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fear of somebody who's taking the runs
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for you unless you have the confidence
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of somebody staying with you at the
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other end you can't get to a century so
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that's number one the the the other
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thing is that there will there will come
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a time even during that innings when
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you're batting well when the bowler is
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bowling so well then you might actually
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better being at the non strikers in and
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if you have if you have a striker who's
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good enough to take on the Lord at that
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stage then then it helps you to tile
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that bowler out and and maybe go on to
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get 100 so you need somebody at the
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other end to be able to whether it's the
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number two batsman number three number
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eleven you need somebody to stay with
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you so that you get a hundred also if
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you're a bowl up then you need the
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fielders to be able to to take the
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catches to be able to stop the runs
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being taken for you to take the wicket
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so I so it's it's in a sense a lot of
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teamwork it's also you know way reflects
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on how you can you can possibly do in
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society in the sense that the more
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talented batsmen always looks after the
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lesser talented batsmen in terms of
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trying to take more of the strike from
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from a dangerous bowler he's trying to
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take more of the strike he may be ill
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Pat five out five balls out of the six
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ball over and maybe just give one ball
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to the to the lesser talented batsman so
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you're looking after somebody slightly
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less a talented and I think that's
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probably what what you want to do in
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society that if you are
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you know well enough you are you're
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trying to look after the the
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less-fortunate it's it's it's it's a bit
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of teamwork and I think very often
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seeing you play you you you exemplified
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you know that style of playing I
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especially remember your ability to deal
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with very fast bullying seen you play
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against the best in these fast bowlers
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and I don't think there were too many
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cricket players at that time who are
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very comfortable with that kind of well
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let me tell you not not not a single
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batsman in the history of the game has
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been entirely comfortable against fast
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bowlers I mean so how did you do it
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I suppose it closed my example after you
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play as a result of your success as a
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player you you also became the captain
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of the team and what kind of leadership
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lessons did that teach you well I was
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fortunate to have been playing under
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some very very fine captains from the
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Ranji Trophy level the state level to
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the international level and you tended
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to sort of you know observe them tended
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to pick points from them you know during
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during the time that you're just a
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player in the team and looking at the
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various captains there are aspects of
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their captaincy that you like there are
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aspects of their captaincy that you
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don't like and so you try and keep that
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in mind when eventually the captaincy
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comes your way that look I mean this guy
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brought the best out of the team doing
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it this way while when he said did or
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said this or even he did that the team
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wasn't very happy so he tried to avoid
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that and so learning from the from your
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seniors was was a big lesson it taught
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you you know what how to get the best
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out of juniors maybe how not to treat
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certain players that you you know can
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you give me any examples of the kind of
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qualities that you like to emulate and
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others that you thought were well I
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thought I thought for example you know
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Ajit Oracle who was my cabinet at the
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state level as well as the international
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level when I made my debut for India he
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he had a unique way of trying to get
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everybody together now if if for example
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he wanted to pass him
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message across a stern message across he
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would pass it on to his Mumbai guys not
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to the with the whole team being there
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because in because us as being such a
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big country with different languages
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different cultures different way of
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looking at things it was important not
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to hurt anybody's sentiments so he would
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he would pass a message on by by having
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a goal or scolding the the Mumbai guys
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even though the Mumbai guy hadn't done
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nothing but it was his way of passing on
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a message to the others look don't do
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this I you know as Captain I don't want
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that on the other hand you had somebody
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like a tiger patottie who was captain
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and who was pretty much a captain who
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who lets you do what what you wanted he
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believed in your abilities so it wasn't
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too much of a guy with a hand on your
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shoulder he would sort of you know let
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you run he said he'll deny and if you
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made a mistake if you came to him then
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he was very happy to talk to you and
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explain to you so I think these these
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two aspects are what were there and you
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learnt to pick from them you know over
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over the period of time you you tend to
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sort of see oh well that's how it works
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and let's try and do it this way and
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have you used any of these leadership
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attributes you know it's a business
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context yes plenty of times I think
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there are there are people who you you
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know who need a bit of guidance in which
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case you you call them in and you tell
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them look that this is maybe the way to
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do it rather than this way and there are
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guys who you know that you know are
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better better left alone because they
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might stumble a little bit here and
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there but at the end of the day they
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have the ability to get up and to do
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what you want them to do last year at
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the Wharton India Economic Forum we were
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fortunate to have President a PGM to the
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column and one of the things that he
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mentioned made the deep impression was
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that one of the most important qualities
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of a leader is to learn how to manage
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failure whose people can manage success
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but managing failure is very very hard
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and I remember there was a time when
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under your captaincy there were a series
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of test matches where India lost and I
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was wondering whether you learned any
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lessons from that that you that have
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stayed with you over the years yes I
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think I think the main thing that you
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that you learn is never to lose heart
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that you know that it is a cycle
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sometimes that the opposition is simply
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better than you and you've got to give
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credit to the fact that you know they
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might have just played you know better
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than you and therefore then you try and
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analyze that how you could have you
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could have improved or bettered your
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performance you could have been more
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competitive and when you do that you
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tend to sort of be able to to find out
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you know the flaws where you know where
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you went wrong one of the best advices
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that I ever received was from a former
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captain and he said to me you must keep
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a diary of the days when you do well
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when you bat well and I his reasoning
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was very simple he said right from the
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time that you get up maybe for example
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if you score 100 what he meant was if
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you score 100 that day and then when you
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go back to your room try and think of
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what you did right from from the time
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you woke up in the morning how you felt
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in the morning what breakfast you had
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when you went into the team bus you know
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which where did you sit first or second
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or third role last or whatever obviously
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some guys you know cricket being a
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fairly superstitious game a lot of guys
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would prefer to sit in the front some
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would sit you know but remember that
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then when he went into the went to the
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ground into the dressing room what what
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happened did you have coffee DFTD do you
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have toast
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do you know when he went in for your
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warmups what did he do when he went into
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the nets when you played when you walked
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out to bat did you walk on the right
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side of the bat off your partner the
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left side of your partner did you take
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strike from from where you know little
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little things he said but write down
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that diary when you when you for example
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took stance to bat how did you feel
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did you take you know try and remember
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obviously it was not always easy to
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remember every little thing or every
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single thing but the fact that he made
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it made you want to write write that was
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was terrific because what what he said
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was when you're going through a bad
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patch when the ball is not hitting the
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middle of your bat when you're bitten
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you know being you know bald or being
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lbw or whatever that's the time read
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back on the day that you had scored well
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and on the day that you had batted well
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because then that will then give you a
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fair comparison as to what you've been
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doing then and maybe you should try and
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replicate that one you know
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to try and see that what had happened
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when you were batting well and what
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what's happening when you're not patting
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well is there any any any difference and
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secondly is the fact that when you are
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reading when you batted well you start
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believing in yourself as well you might
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be going through a horror run not
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getting any any any runs at all and but
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just reading you know the good days when
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you've done that will boost your
00:15:49
confidence up and I thought that was a
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fantastic advice did you try it oh yes
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plenty of times and it works oh it
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absolutely works yeah absolutely works
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to switch gears a little bit let's turn
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to the game itself you've mentioned the
00:16:05
fact that now it's a career option
00:16:07
especially with 20/20 and D and the
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formation of the IPL how is the business
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side of the game changed and do you
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think it's not changed for the better
00:16:19
things that bother you
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no I I think there are there are pluses
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more pluses than minuses obviously in
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any any any sport there will always be
00:16:29
certain minuses but I believe that
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there's the the the advent of the the
00:16:34
Indian Premier League the kind of money
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that is there in the game now certainly
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is a big plus because what it has done
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is it has encouraged parents over all
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the time pushing pushing their children
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pushing their talented kids only forced
00:16:45
only into into the into the education
00:16:48
field simply because they wanted a
00:16:49
degree behind you so that you would be
00:16:51
able to get a decent job now if they see
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that the kid has Got Talent they say
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okay go and play because there's no age
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limit for education but there is age
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limit for sport that's what I told my
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son Rohan as well that you know when he
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was when I was starting to play that you
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play as much as you want don't worry
00:17:05
about anything else and you know let's
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let's see how it goes because you can
00:17:08
always study you know once you're
00:17:10
finished with the game it's not
00:17:11
necessary that you have to study when
00:17:12
you're 16 17 or whatever it is and and I
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think that's one of the biggest pluses
00:17:16
that has that has happened because so I
00:17:19
do believe that Indian cricket and the
00:17:21
game of cricket lost out on many a good
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talent simply because the parents said
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no we want you to get into a different
00:17:29
field which is which guarantees you an
00:17:31
income I know when I played in the
00:17:33
Universities Bombay University we are
00:17:35
two or three talented players who could
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have I'm not saying who could have maybe
00:17:39
being great players but certainly had
00:17:41
the ability to or to to Don national
00:17:45
colors but midway through and they opted
00:17:47
to go you know to to medical school
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because that's where they believe that
00:17:51
their future was today today that we the
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the the parents and the and the children
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do believe that there is a possibility
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there's a life away from studies that
00:18:01
they can actually make a living playing
00:18:03
the game of cricket interesting do you
00:18:06
think India is doing enough to promote
00:18:08
cricket in the rural areas yes yes I
00:18:11
think India India perhaps has got the
00:18:13
best junior system in the entire
00:18:14
cricketing world the opportunities that
00:18:17
the junior cricketers get because of the
00:18:18
various tournaments that are there to
00:18:20
come forth and show their talent is I
00:18:23
mean it is absolutely incredible
00:18:25
we also have a talent research
00:18:26
development scheme whereby we are
00:18:29
ascending you know Scouts into into
00:18:31
various cities and therefore trying to
00:18:34
see if there's there's a talent there
00:18:36
the the the the primary aim of this
00:18:39
talent scouts is not to state the
00:18:43
obvious in the sense that if somebody
00:18:45
scored a hundred junior cricketer scored
00:18:47
a hundred or he's taken five wickets
00:18:48
well that's obvious he's got his god
00:18:50
ability but there could come a situation
00:18:52
in the same match where somebody is
00:18:53
called a very good thirty or somebody is
00:18:56
coming in taking two wickets at a
00:18:58
crucial time he hasn't taken five but
00:19:00
he's taken two wickets or even just
00:19:02
broken a partnership or you know as I
00:19:04
said scored scored a thirteen a
00:19:06
partnership of a hundred but given the
00:19:08
guy you know so we wanted to make sure
00:19:10
that these guys were not lost not lost
00:19:12
simply because you know they hadn't got
00:19:14
the numbers to show but but but we knew
00:19:16
that these guys had the ability and
00:19:18
these guys had the temperament and and
00:19:20
that's what the talent scouts were
00:19:21
supposed to look at and I think it's
00:19:23
worked very well if you have a look at
00:19:25
the Indian team today look at the number
00:19:27
of guys from the non metros and which
00:19:30
actually tells you how cricket has
00:19:33
spread throughout the country maybe ten
00:19:35
fifteen years ago most of the players
00:19:37
who were from the metros today I think
00:19:40
from the metros you get maybe a handful
00:19:42
but could the BCCI be doing more to
00:19:45
develop
00:19:47
a cricket in a scientific manner I think
00:19:52
what needs to be done is really have we
00:19:54
need more academies in all parts of the
00:19:58
country we need to to emphasize to the
00:20:01
up-and-coming youngsters the importance
00:20:04
of physical fitness so I don't believe
00:20:06
that physical fitness is the be all and
00:20:07
end all but train them in such a way
00:20:09
that they are prepared once they once
00:20:11
they get on to the national level and
00:20:13
then at the international level to cope
00:20:15
with it just last couple of questions
00:20:18
what's the biggest leadership challenge
00:20:20
you have faced well the biggest
00:20:23
challenge is to be able to get the rest
00:20:27
of the team to believe in itself and I
00:20:30
think it's it's probably something to do
00:20:33
with with the fact that we've had we've
00:20:37
we've had a system in our country you
00:20:39
call it the caste system we call it
00:20:40
whatever or the class system whereby
00:20:43
some people believe that they are not as
00:20:45
good as the others did I mean despite
00:20:47
the fact that they've had the ability
00:20:48
and to be able to make them believe in
00:20:50
their ability that their ability is what
00:20:52
matters not not the class not the caste
00:20:53
that they come from I think that's been
00:20:55
the biggest challenge one last question
00:20:57
how do you define success wish I could I
00:21:03
could I could define it I would imagine
00:21:05
that it's it's a feeling of satisfaction
00:21:07
when you have done your job and feeling
00:21:12
of giving it you have giving it your
00:21:14
best giving it everything and to be able
00:21:16
to put your head down on the pillow and
00:21:17
sleep is peacefully knowing that you've
00:21:20
given it everything at the end of the
00:21:21
day then success and failure or as the
00:21:24
world terms it is in the hands of God
00:21:27
but the effort is in your hands soon
00:21:30
thank you so much for joining us today
00:21:32
thank you my pleasure
00:21:35
you
