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Ripple Effects of Environmental Policy

July 30, 2014 / 12:11

This episode features a discussion on environmental governance, the role of the military in renewable energy, and corporate environmental standards. The guest, a researcher from Wharton, shares insights from their work on how private firms can influence environmental standards and the military's role as a polluter.

The researcher explains their background as a former federal prosecutor and how it informs their current studies. They challenge traditional views of environmental law by suggesting that businesses can set environmental standards, citing examples like Walmart's supply chain requirements.

Key discussions include the military's significant fossil fuel consumption and its potential to lead in renewable energy innovation. The researcher presents findings from their empirical work indicating that the military's use of renewable energy could influence public attitudes towards climate change.

They also emphasize the need for broader definitions of environmental governance, advocating for legislative changes that would allow longer power purchase agreements for government agencies to stimulate renewable energy development.

The episode concludes with a look at ongoing research projects aimed at understanding how businesses communicate about climate change and the implications for environmental law.

TL;DR

The episode discusses environmental governance, military renewable energy roles, and corporate standards with insights from a Wharton researcher.

Episode

12:11
00:00:03
I think it helps to give a little bit of
00:00:04
a sense of my own personal background to
00:00:06
explain where my research comes from
00:00:08
before coming to Wharton I spent 10
00:00:10
years as a um Federal prosecutor in New
00:00:12
York I was an assistant United States
00:00:14
Attorney for the southern district of
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New York and in that capacity I um
00:00:19
participated in kind of traditional law
00:00:21
enforcement particularly with respect to
00:00:23
environmental laws and so the
00:00:25
traditional model of environmental law
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is that Congress passes a law and and
00:00:30
the government enforces it against
00:00:32
business firms which are the polluters
00:00:34
right so that's kind of the traditional
00:00:36
understanding of what environmental law
00:00:37
is in my research what I try to do is I
00:00:40
kind of flip that around so I ask what
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if the government is not the regulator
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but instead private firms are regulators
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and what if the government is not the
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regulator but instead is a polluter so
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my research kind of falls into two
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categories right now the first is
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exploring the role of the government as
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a polluter and the second is exploring
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the role of business firms as sources of
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environmental
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standards on the side of my research
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that focuses on the government as
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polluter I think one of the key
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takeaways is that the military does not
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always stand opposed to the idea of
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Environmental Protection there are kind
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of two narratives about the role that
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the military plays in society with
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respect to the environment one is that
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the environment and National Security
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stand opposed to one another and that
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the environment needs to bend if
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National Security is issue but what I
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suggest in my research in a paper called
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the military environmental complex is
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that right now because the military is
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the nation's largest consumer of fossil
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fuels and because many thousands of
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soldiers have died guarding fuel convoys
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in recent conflicts in Iraq and
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Afghanistan um the military has um this
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tremendous internal incentive to reduce
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its fossil fuel use and replace it with
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Renewables and so is investing heavily
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in that right now and so that sort of
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turns the traditional narrative on its
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head and suggest that the military
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actually has a very important role to
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play in supporting the development of
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clean and renewable energy
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technology so on the other side of my
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research which focuses on the idea that
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business firms can be a source of
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environmental standards um I think that
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fact in and of itself is surprising um
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when you study environmental law in a
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traditional law school environment the
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focus tends to be on the laws that
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congress passes um and on business firms
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as polluters and the targets of
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government regulation but what you see
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in this environment here in a business
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school um and I think that is of great
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interest is that business firms can
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themselves be sources of environmental
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standards so for example if Walmart
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imposes requirements on its supply chain
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that suppliers need to disclose their
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greenhouse gas emissions in order to
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have contracts with Walmart that in and
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of itself is an environmental standard
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um similarly nonprofit organizations
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like the Marine Stewardship Council or
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the forest Stewardship Council create
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certification programs whereby you can
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certify fishery or fish catching um or
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Forest um Timber practices as
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sustainable and in order to Warrant the
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label the certification the business
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needs to comply with certain rules which
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are then audited by Third parties those
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are themselves Environmental governance
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though maybe not in the most traditional
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sense and so I think it can be eye
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openening for people to understand that
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certain forms of corporate enironmental
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social responsibility are actually um
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that they have broader implications than
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just for the firms
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themselves so I think the most
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surprising conclusion has come in
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connection with some empirical work that
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I've been doing uh with colleagues here
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at Wharton to test a hypothesis that I
00:03:57
put out in an article called valuing
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National Security security so in the
00:04:01
article called the military
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environmental complex I suggest that the
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military um is playing an important role
00:04:07
in stimulating innovation in
00:04:09
technological advancement in the Clean
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Energy Arena in valuing National
00:04:13
Security I suggest that the military um
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by focusing on renewable energy
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development and reducing its fossil fuel
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use actually has the potential to um
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affect policy debate and individual
00:04:26
behavior in the kind of climate change
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Arena um the the mere fact that the
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Department of Defense is using solar
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panels has the potential to drive
00:04:36
individuals to want to use solar panels
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at least that's the hypothesis so I've
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been working with colleagues here at
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Wharton to test this hypothesis
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empirically and just a few days ago we
00:04:45
received some preliminary test results
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um we suspected that um the difference
00:04:52
would be among conservative um survey
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participants people who generally don't
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tend to favor Environmental Protection
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but do tend to Value the role of the
00:05:01
military in society what we found was um
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actually that people who self-identify
00:05:08
as liberal were more likely to want to
00:05:10
purchase renewable energy um from their
00:05:13
utility when they learned that the
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Department of Defense was actively using
00:05:17
renewable energy technology the sample
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size wasn't large enough for
00:05:20
conservative so we don't know yet um
00:05:22
what the result is on that front but we
00:05:24
plan to follow up with additional
00:05:28
testing
00:05:31
there are really three practical
00:05:32
implications of my research at this
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point the first is that I think we need
00:05:36
to be thinking much more broadly
00:05:38
Scholars and Regulators need to be
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thinking much more broadly about what
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constitutes environmental law and
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environmental governance it is not
00:05:44
simply laws passed by Congress or
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regulations passed by EPA it includes
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private environmental governance that is
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actions by firms and non-governmental
00:05:55
organizations to set environmental
00:05:56
standards so I think that's really the
00:05:58
first implication
00:06:00
the second implication relates to the
00:06:02
work that I'm doing on valuing National
00:06:04
Security that is I think it's extremely
00:06:07
important to recognize that if we want
00:06:09
to change individual behaviors in the
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climate change context that we need to
00:06:14
think broadly about how to frame climate
00:06:16
change we shouldn't Simply Be framing
00:06:18
climate change as an environmental issue
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it needs to be framed as a national
00:06:22
security issue as well the third
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implication is very specific um one of
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the reasons why the military has been
00:06:31
able to um leverage its purchasing power
00:06:35
to stimulate the development of
00:06:37
renewable energy Technologies is because
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Congress gave it a particular statutory
00:06:43
Authority that statutory Authority
00:06:45
allows it to enter into what are called
00:06:47
Power purchase agreements whereby the
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military purchases power from an an
00:06:52
energy generating entity and so the
00:06:56
military is able to enter into Power
00:06:58
purchase agreements for 30 years which
00:07:01
is necessary in order to um allow the
00:07:04
entity that that builds the generating
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facility on Military land to recoup its
00:07:09
initial investment you can't do
00:07:11
Renewables on a very short time frame
00:07:13
because The Upfront costs tend to be
00:07:15
high other government agencies are
00:07:18
limited to 10-year power purchasing
00:07:20
agreements so I make a very specific
00:07:22
recommendation in the military
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environmental complex that Congress
00:07:26
should consider lengthening the term um
00:07:29
for other government agencies as well
00:07:32
such that they could enter into these
00:07:34
long-term 30-year power purchase
00:07:35
agreements because I think that that
00:07:37
would allow them to stimulate the
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development of renewable energy
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technology as
00:07:46
well so obviously my research focuses on
00:07:49
environmental governance um but the
00:07:52
point is broader and I think it's
00:07:53
important to recognize that the idea
00:07:56
that private governance is not limited
00:07:57
just to the environmental Arena private
00:08:00
governance exists in um firms where
00:08:02
they're setting labor standards for
00:08:05
their suppliers in in their supply
00:08:07
chains um there are also Private
00:08:09
Financial standards recently two
00:08:12
candidates for higher office entered
00:08:14
into a contract whereby they agreed to
00:08:18
um certain campaign Finance rules so
00:08:20
rather than relying on Congress to set
00:08:23
campaign Finance rules two candidates
00:08:25
privately agreed that they would not
00:08:27
accept certain money or not spend more
00:08:28
than C C amounts so the the phenomenon
00:08:31
of private governance actually extends
00:08:33
quite broadly and I think it's important
00:08:35
to recognize
00:08:39
that the news is full of stories
00:08:43
recently about the impact of climate
00:08:46
change the intergovernmental panel on
00:08:48
climate change has been releasing
00:08:49
various working group reports which
00:08:52
demonstrate that climate change is
00:08:54
happening that climate change is
00:08:56
anthropogenic and that the consequences
00:08:58
of climate change may be dire for
00:09:00
society um in addition a group of 16
00:09:04
retired generals um from the military
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recently last month I believe put out a
00:09:10
report um saying that climate change is
00:09:13
is posing a national security threat and
00:09:15
that climate change acts as a threat
00:09:17
multiplier that
00:09:18
destabilizes um countries that has the
00:09:21
potential to increase conflict to create
00:09:24
climate refugees and other situations in
00:09:26
which the US military is going to be
00:09:27
called upon to
00:09:29
um address these conflicts so I think
00:09:33
the idea that climate change is a
00:09:34
national security issue is certainly in
00:09:36
the
00:09:41
news what sets my research apart in part
00:09:44
comes from where I'm situated and what
00:09:46
my background is um most lawyers who
00:09:50
decide to become professors go on to
00:09:52
teach in law schools um but I chose to
00:09:54
come to a business school obviously my
00:09:57
my research is very um
00:09:59
uh connected to the idea of the role
00:10:01
that business plays in society so I
00:10:03
think what sets my research apart in
00:10:05
part is the fact that I'm kind of
00:10:07
bridging these two worlds and trying to
00:10:09
have a conversation not only with other
00:10:12
legal Scholars but also with business
00:10:13
and management
00:10:18
Scholars I'm following up on this
00:10:20
research in a number of different ways
00:10:22
with respect to valuing National
00:10:24
Security I am currently working with
00:10:27
colleagues here at Wharton to
00:10:29
empirically test the hypothesis so we
00:10:31
are going to be following up with
00:10:33
additional studies in which we frame
00:10:35
climate change as a national security
00:10:36
issue or demonstrate military leadership
00:10:39
with respect to renewable energy use to
00:10:41
see what impact that has on individual
00:10:44
um behaviors and beliefs and attitudes
00:10:46
toward climate policy and reducing
00:10:48
fossil fuel use um I'm also working with
00:10:51
um some colleagues here at Wharton on an
00:10:54
empirical study to understand how
00:10:56
business firms talk about climate change
00:10:59
in their Securities and Exchange
00:11:01
Commission disclosures do they talk
00:11:03
about it as an issue of strategic
00:11:06
Advantage do they talk about it as an
00:11:08
issue of Environmental Protection and
00:11:10
morality do they talk about it as an
00:11:12
issue of National Security um and in
00:11:14
particular for major military
00:11:16
contractors how do they talk about
00:11:18
climate change and to the extent that
00:11:20
the ways in which they've talked about
00:11:21
climate change um over time uh have
00:11:24
changed what can account for the change
00:11:27
so those are some empirical projects
00:11:28
that I'm work working on with colleagues
00:11:29
here at Wharton I'm also continuing to
00:11:32
do my own uh work on uh more kind of
00:11:36
normative theories of private
00:11:39
environmental governance to try to argue
00:11:42
about how it fits into larger views of
00:11:45
what constitutes environmental
00:11:50
[Music]
00:11:57
law
00:12:01
[Music]

Episode Highlights

  • The Military's Role in Clean Energy
    Research suggests the military is a key player in renewable energy development.
    “The military has a very important role in supporting clean energy.”
    @ 02m 07s
    July 30, 2014
  • Business as Environmental Regulators
    Exploring how companies like Walmart set environmental standards through their supply chains.
    “Business firms can themselves be sources of environmental standards.”
    @ 02m 19s
    July 30, 2014
  • Framing Climate Change
    Climate change should be viewed as a national security issue, not just an environmental one.
    “Climate change is a national security issue.”
    @ 09m 34s
    July 30, 2014

Episode Quotes

  • The military has a very important role in supporting clean energy.
    Ripple Effects of Environmental Policy
  • Business firms can themselves be sources of environmental standards.
    Ripple Effects of Environmental Policy
  • Climate change is a national security issue.
    Ripple Effects of Environmental Policy

Key Moments

  • Military and Environment02:07
  • Corporate Responsibility02:19
  • Climate Change as Security09:34

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown

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