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this program is about unsolved mysteries
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whenever possible the actual family
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members and police officials have
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participated in recreating the events
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what you are about to see is not a news
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broadcast tonight a special edition of
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unsolved mysteries in the summer of 1991
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31 year-old Jeffrey Dahmer confessed to
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the unprovoked murders of 17 young men
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neighbors and co-workers a describe
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Dahmer as a quiet loner were shocked by
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the revelations in the 1980s banking
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executives siphoned billions from the
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nation's SNL's savings were devoted to
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fraudulent land schemes luxury cars and
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yachts prostitutes and political slush
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funds the rest of us will be repaying
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the debt well into the next century
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Iraqi president Saddam Hussein murdered
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thousands of rivals and his rise to
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power those soundly defeated by
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Operation Desert Storm he has really to
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threaten world stability the central
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characters in these seemingly unrelated
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events share one disturbing trait a
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cunning mind unrestrained by conscience
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some call them Psychopaths others call
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them sociopaths
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we call them diabolical lines
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motherhood is above suspicion
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unquestioned sacred so no one was
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surprised when Marie Hilley resolutely
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nursed her family through a series of
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debilitating illnesses nobody had any
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idea that Marie Hilley
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was poisoning her own family from his
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prison cell
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convicted murderer G Daniel Walker
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terrorized a deputy district attorney
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who prosecuted him our exclusive
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interview with Walker paints a chilling
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portrait of the diabolical mind in June
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1989 a mother and her two daughters were
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sexually assaulted then dumped still
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alive in to Tampa Bay perhaps you can
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help identify the killer who authorities
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believe that continued to rape and
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murder tonight in a special presentation
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we will explore the mysteries of a
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frightening phenomenon the mysteries of
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the diabolical mind join me
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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the words diabolical in Psychopaths
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bring to mind the lured villains from
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horror movies out of control glassy eyed
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unkempt maniacs real-life Psychopaths
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bear little resemblance to these movie
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madmen they hold jobs shop for groceries
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and appear no difference in the rest of
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us most of the time only the minority of
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psychopaths are actually violent there
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are people who have Vice presence of
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corporations who step over the
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competition
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who's backstabbing is only figurative
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one of the social dangers that
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psychopathic individuals perpetuate is
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that often times especially if they're
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brighter than average or perhaps very
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intelligent that they can fool
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individuals into believing that they are
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quite sincere and are being quite honest
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even Psychopaths who murder such as
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serial killer John Wayne Gacy might
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stand next to you in line at the post
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office without drawing your attention
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John Wayne Gacy is an interesting case
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in Chicago and respectable responsible
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figure was a clown at children's parties
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and active in the political party of his
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time photographed with the president the
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president's wife but all the while this
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was going on he was systematically
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luring into his house and hideously
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torturing and killing young men and then
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burying him in under his under his home
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Ted Bundy also appeared to be a pillar
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of society at various times before his
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arrest and execution he was a counselor
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on a rape crisis hotline a campaign aide
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to Washington governor Dan Evans and in
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1972 Ted Bundy was named mister
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up-and-coming Republican
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two very well-known journalist described
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Ted Bundy for example as a kind of alien
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life-form mimicking the behavior of real
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human beings a lot of psychopaths don't
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just kill individual they're not content
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with that a lot of psychopaths run
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countries
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I see no fundamental difference between
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someone like Ted Bundy and someone like
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Adolf Hitler who simply used very
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different techniques for very similar
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ends that all that mattered to them was
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control and domination and one in the
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one case of an instinct I saluted
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individual in another of an entire
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nation and the ruthless annihilation of
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millions meant nothing the most
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destructive Psychopaths are those very
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few who achieve and hold on to absolute
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political power the force of authority
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combined with a diabolical mind almost
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inevitably leads to an epic and
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horrifying rampage in these rare home
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movies Adolf Hitler appears no more
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threatening than a prosperous Bavarian
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country gentlemen a friend of dogs and
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small children and yet
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Hitler was certainly the most heinous
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psychopath of all time what drove Hitler
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to systematically murders six million
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Jews and decimate most of Europe one of
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the more common prevalent theories today
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is that there's a lack of bonding
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between the parent and the child in the
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very early years the sociopath grows up
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feeling unloved
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out of control and when he grows up he
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has intense need for control over other
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people Hitler's father was 52 years old
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when Hitler was born many believe his
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physical and emotional abuse virtually
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destroyed his son's self-esteem as an
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adult Adolf Hitler felt compelled to
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subjugate millions to avenge his own
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deep feelings of inferiority psychopaths
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kill because that is the ultimate act of
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humiliation and dominance that shows
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their total power and control over
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another human being is the ultimate
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achievement of their psychopathic dreams
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[Music]
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amidst the wreckage and misery that he
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unleashed on Europe
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Hitler displayed the psycho-pass most
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chilling trait a total absence of
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empathy for his victims for the
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psychopath the world is a smorgasbord
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from which he can select whatever food
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he wants to eat
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there's no reciprocity there's no
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empathy for who he victimizes it is
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something that he intentionally does and
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it's choices that he makes day in and
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day out as to who he will manipulate
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more recently Iraqi president Saddam
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Hussein ordered the invasion of Kuwait
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the latest episode in a political career
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marked by bloodletting and treachery
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Saddam has an extremely dangerous
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personality but he is not crazy in the
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sense of being committed to a mental
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institution this is the kind of person
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in a court of law who would not be
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considered not guilty by reason of
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insanity but the recommendation of the
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examining psychiatrist would undoubtedly
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be to throw away the key
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Saddam Hussein grew up in an
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impoverished almost medieval village
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that lacked electricity and running
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water he was frequently beaten by his
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stepfather kept out of school and forced
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to help support his family by stealing
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chickens and sheep like Hitler Hussein
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exploited a turbulent political climate
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to legitimize his personal need to
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dominate and control others along the
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way what he learned and what was
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reinforced regularly was that violence
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is the key to power
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during the 1960s and 70s Hussein
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methodically eliminated political rivals
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torturing and murdering thousands by
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July of 1979 Hussein inspired so much
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fear that he was able to gain the
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presidency simply by asking for it
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within days Hussein summoned his leading
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supporters to a meeting where he charged
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a number of potential rivals with
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treason this crude video footage was
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smuggled out of Iraq and shows several
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of the accused being led from the
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meeting after the meeting
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Hussein forced those not identified as
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conspirators to execute their former
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colleagues a striking example of the
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dangers of criticizing Saddam occurred
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in 1982 the war with Iran that Saddam
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had initiated was going very badly and
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Saddam decided they had to stop it but
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by now Khomeini was obsessed with Saddam
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and said there would be no peace until
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Saddam was deposed or stepped down
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Saddam called a cabinet meeting asked
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his cabinet what should we do
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Khomeini insists I step down to a man of
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course the cabinet said you must stay on
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we need your leadership
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Saddam then said no no I want your frank
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candid and creative suggestions his
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oxford-educated Minister of Health and
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dr. Ibrahim took him seriously and made
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a rather strewed suggestion why he
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suggested don't we have you stepped down
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temporarily Saddam until our goal of
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peace is established and then you can
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resume the presidency as the story is
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told
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Saddam thanked him for his candor and
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then had him arrested the minister's
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wife fled with Saddam to return her
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husband to her he promised her that he
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would as best as I can tell the only
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promise he ever kept the next day he
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returned her husband to her and a black
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canvas bag chopped into pieces
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with his critics effectively silenced
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Hussein launched his ill-fated invasion
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of Kuwait when he ultimately surrendered
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Hussein promised to terminate production
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of all chemical and nuclear weapons
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subsequent United Nations inspections
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confirm that Hussein was lying if one
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were to strip world leaders and
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politicians of narcissistic characters
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the ranks will be perilously thin
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we must always be alert to that fusion
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between that personal drive for power
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unconstrained by conscience when it
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meets a wounded population that has
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repetitively over history led to some of
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the most violent episodes that have
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scarred our planet
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history has shown the political
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psychopaths will not mellow two wise
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magnanimous leaders most like Adolf
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Hitler perished in the flames a help
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ignite some like Idi Amin or deposed
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live a quiet retirement in exile a few
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such as Joseph Stalin and the Soviet
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Union die of old age of their iron grip
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still strong the ultimate fate of Saddam
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Hussein remains a question when we
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return a case study of a different kind
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the female diabolical mind it may not
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surprise you that 95% of all serial
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killers and mass murderers are men as
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what expert is said if you're looking
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for a diabolical gender it is the male
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there are however a few diabolical women
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typically the sociopaths conceal their
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true nature behind a veil of tenderness
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and warmth Frank and Marie Hilley were
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high school sweethearts they were
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married in 1950 and the life they built
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together was the envy of friends and
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neighbors in Anniston Alabama by 1971
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Frank had worked his way up from
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shipping clerk to supervisor at the
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local foundry the helis had two children
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Carol 11 and Mike 18 aside from her
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tendency to overspend Bree was a
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cheerful and supportive partner by all
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appearances the perfect wife and mother
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but appearances deceived I first started
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getting sick when I was 18 a lot of
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stomach problems and I started having
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those problems about two or three months
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after an insurance policy was taken out
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on me for $25,000 Mike's doctors are
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unable to diagnose a cure his persistent
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stomach ailments curiously once Mike
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left home for college the symptoms
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disappear and curiously with Mike away
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from home his father developed a
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mysterious stomach ailment
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once again doctors are unable to find a
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cause or provide a cure at the same time
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Frank and Marie's marriage was falling
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apart my father called me one day and
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had something he wanted to talk to me
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about he had come home from work early
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one day and had found my mother in bed
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with one of her employers I think my
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father was gonna divorce her I think
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that was one circumstance that she just
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wouldn't allow to happen she placed a
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high value on prominence and reputation
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and to go through a divorce would have
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destroyed that
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[Music]
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within two weeks of confiding in Mike
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Frank Kelly's mysterious disorders
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suddenly worsened Frank was admitted to
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the local hospital Marie rarely left his
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side tenderly feeding and caring for him
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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I remember thinking to myself maybe this
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is the catalyst that will put them back
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together she talked maybe his illness
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will bring them closer together Frank
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I'm here for you and together we are
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going to make it Frank Kelly died on May
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25th 1975 the official cause of death
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was hepatitis nobody suspected the truth
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it's important understand is that these
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people who seem so loving love in a very
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odd way the sociopaths will love you for
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what you do for them not from who you
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are and what you are whenever you become
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no longer necessary to their lives they
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will throw you away and if it has to be
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through murder so be it Marie spent
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little time mourning for her husband the
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proceeds from Frank's life-insurance
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total more than thirty thousand dollars
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Marie quickly refurnished her house
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bought a new car and draped herself in
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expensive jewels and fashions when the
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money ran out
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Marie kept spending we became aware that
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Marie was having financial problems
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there were various businesses filing
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complaints on her for insufficient
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checks that she had written to cover
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various purchases there were some deals
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with automobiles as she had made that
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fell through and weren't paid for just a
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lot of little things that began to add
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up to flag our attention
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she owed more than she had she couldn't
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pay her bills
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my mother's finances were in terrible
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shape I began to receive phone calls
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from creditors wanting the money so she
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was getting all of these things with the
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promise to her creditors that I would
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pay for them four years after her
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father's death
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18 year old Carol Hill he suddenly
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became sick nobody thought to connect
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her illness to Marie's financial
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problems
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but nobody knew that Marie had insured
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Carol's life for $25,000 during the time
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that everyone was getting sick I think
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the time between those illnesses were
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was sufficient enough not to cause
00:18:09
anybody to question what was going on
00:18:12
however in each individual case
00:18:16
I think someone relative and the family
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suspected that something was going on
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and like me later on something is but
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what shortly after Carol became ill Mike
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returned to Aniston to confront Marie
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about her overspending no we are going
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to cash in daddy stocks so that you can
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pay me the money that you owe me all the
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money I have in the world and I will not
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spend it the creditors are calling me
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three times a day
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Mike was now living in Florida he had a
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wife and young baby of his own and
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Marie's appetite for expensive
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possessions threatened his family
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[Music]
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I said if I have to pick you up and
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physically put you in the car
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we're going to the bank there are no
00:19:08
questions
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right after breakfast which she cooked I
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got about as sick as I ever been in my
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life
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[Music]
00:19:25
Mike recovered quickly and returned to
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Florida but Carol's condition steadily
00:19:29
worsened I talked to my friend Ellen
00:19:34
who's the registered nurse and she said
00:19:36
they have this new medicine in her
00:19:38
clinic that she thinks might help you
00:19:42
Carol was in and out of the hospital for
00:19:45
six months and finally became paralyzed
00:19:47
from the waist down still doctors were
00:19:51
unable to diagnose her illness I'll give
00:19:59
you some carol became increasingly
00:20:08
sicker and weaker although I didn't see
00:20:11
her at that time I only heard from my
00:20:14
mother and my aunt okay sweetie this is
00:20:17
gonna sting a little bit I remember my
00:20:21
aunt telling me that my mother had Carol
00:20:23
and seclusion wouldn't let anybody see
00:20:25
her would not let anyone talk to her and
00:20:28
if something didn't happen Carol was
00:20:29
gonna die
00:20:34
dude when we find a woman who is a
00:20:40
sociopath we find an individual who
00:20:45
leads a double life who fools and
00:20:48
manipulates family and friends no one
00:20:52
suspects in fact she's often the last
00:20:55
person you'd suspect at all well how can
00:21:01
I help you detective on September 20th
00:21:03
1979 Murray's facade of innocence began
00:21:07
to fracture on at the hospital tending
00:21:09
Carole Murray was arrested for passing
00:21:12
bad checks Anacin police didn't realize
00:21:16
that the arrests probably saved Carol's
00:21:18
life one of Carol's friends at that time
00:21:22
told me that she had visited Carol that
00:21:25
day and Carol had mentioned something
00:21:27
about injections that my mother had
00:21:29
given her I just look straight ahead for
00:21:31
me would you mm-hmm
00:21:33
that's good Mike demanded that the
00:21:35
hospital staff re-examined Carol how'd
00:21:37
you sleep last night okay doctors
00:21:41
checked for a telltale sign of arsenic
00:21:43
poisoning
00:21:44
unmistakable white lines across the
00:21:47
fingernails the world as I knew it at
00:21:52
that point just fell apart everything
00:21:56
that I had been taught to rely on was
00:22:00
totally in question everything that my
00:22:03
mother had taught me right from wrong I
00:22:06
had to go back and re-examine Mike Hill
00:22:11
he was forced to confront the
00:22:12
unspeakable his mother probably murdered
00:22:15
his
00:22:16
[Music]
00:22:21
[Applause]
00:22:25
in October of 1979 at Mike's request and
00:22:29
surprisingly with Maurice permission
00:22:31
frank hilley's body was exhumed for a
00:22:33
second autopsy
00:22:38
Oh Marie quietly slipped out of town
00:22:42
three weeks before the autopsy results
00:22:44
were released the revised cause of death
00:22:47
arsenic poisoning On January 11th 1980
00:22:55
an arrest warrant was issued charging
00:22:57
Marie with the murder of her husband but
00:23:00
by then Marie Hilley had disappeared at
00:23:09
about the same time 700 miles from
00:23:11
Anniston a romance blossomed in Fort
00:23:13
Lauderdale Florida Marie Haley had
00:23:17
resurfaced flaunting a new identity
00:23:19
Robbie Henin John John Holman recently
00:23:27
arrived from New Hampshire was pleased
00:23:28
to meet her so Robbie right mm-hmm
00:23:32
what brings you to sunny Florida oh just
00:23:35
wanted to take a little vacation get
00:23:37
away from the past and that where you
00:23:41
from
00:23:43
Robbie told John she was a widow and was
00:23:45
soon to inherit a vast estate married
00:23:48
she also revealed she had a
00:23:49
life-threatening brain cancer
00:23:53
about Mabel how about you that's not
00:23:56
much tell him afraid sociopaths tend to
00:23:58
be very good actors they know how to
00:24:02
play the script of life and they know
00:24:05
how to capitalize upon the needs and
00:24:08
vulnerabilities of others yeah Ravi
00:24:12
Hannon character was skillfully and
00:24:14
deliberately created she was attractive
00:24:16
she was available she was going to be
00:24:19
rich and she might die sometime in the
00:24:22
future the possibilities seemed endless
00:24:27
Robbie and John were married in May of
00:24:30
1981 she found work as a secretary and
00:24:33
was welcomed into the quiet social
00:24:35
fabric of Marlowe New Hampshire John
00:24:39
Holman good to see you again thank you
00:24:40
and who do we have here
00:24:42
pastor I'd like for you to meet my wife
00:24:43
Robby home very pleased to meet you
00:24:46
Robby
00:24:46
well the pleasure is all mine pastor by
00:24:49
all accounts John and Robby shared a
00:24:51
quiet and contented marriage then in
00:24:54
September of 1980 - Robby informed John
00:24:57
that her brain cancer had worsened she
00:24:59
flew alone to Texas for a special
00:25:01
medical tests John Holman never saw
00:25:04
Robbie again he got a call sometime
00:25:08
later from an individual who identified
00:25:11
herself as Robby Hannah's twin sister
00:25:16
Terry Martin she also advised mr. Holman
00:25:21
that Robbie had died and the body had
00:25:25
been donated to science and all the
00:25:28
arrangements had been made so there was
00:25:30
nothing for him to do
00:25:35
several weeks later Terry Martin
00:25:37
Robbie's sister came to New Hampshire
00:25:39
she brought an emotional farewell that
00:25:42
her Robbie had written to John just
00:25:44
before she died
00:25:46
Terry you must be John I'm Terry Martin
00:25:52
Robbie's sister
00:25:57
sorry John I thought you knew we were
00:25:59
twins I guess I knew I had no idea
00:26:05
identical twins Marie Hilley had lost 20
00:26:08
pounds dyed her hair blonde and boldly
00:26:11
returned to New Hampshire as her own
00:26:13
twin sister John Holman accepted Terry
00:26:19
at face value she moved in with him and
00:26:21
they lived together for two months
00:26:23
however some of John's neighbors were
00:26:26
suspicious and attempted to verify
00:26:28
Terry's story
00:26:29
nothing checked out
00:26:31
[Music]
00:26:35
Marie Hilley was ultimately trapped by
00:26:38
an unlikely coincidence her age and
00:26:40
description just happened to match one
00:26:42
of the FBI's most wanted fugitives On
00:26:47
January 18th 1983 Terry Martin was taken
00:26:50
into custody for questioning after she
00:26:55
was picked up they had no idea that she
00:26:58
was actually Marie Haley and that she
00:27:00
was wanted in Alabama for murder and
00:27:03
attempted to poison her daughter once
00:27:05
she was picked up then they've learned
00:27:07
who in fact she really was Marie Hilley
00:27:12
was setlist to life plus 20 years in the
00:27:15
winter of 1987 she escaped from prison
00:27:18
only to die seven days later from
00:27:20
prolonged exposure to the cold Marie
00:27:22
Hilley
00:27:23
was 53 years old
00:27:32
other had a lot of charisma and charm
00:27:34
and she knew how to use that she had the
00:27:41
ability to make you believe what she was
00:27:44
saying even if you knew that it was an
00:27:47
outright lie she had the ability to make
00:27:51
you believe that you were the most
00:27:53
important thing in her life and that
00:27:56
could have been the furthest thing from
00:27:57
the truth
00:28:02
what inner forces polluted Murray
00:28:04
Haley's natural bonds with her husband
00:28:06
and children how could a wife and mother
00:28:09
regard her own family members as little
00:28:12
more than economic resources to be
00:28:14
exploited
00:28:15
like so many diabolical personalities
00:28:18
Marie Hilley remains a mystery
00:28:26
when we return
00:28:28
disturbing face to face confrontation of
00:28:31
the diabolical mind an interview with
00:28:33
convicted murderer G Daniel Walker how
00:28:36
long has he wrapped I would think the
00:28:38
current one would probably be about 29
00:28:41
to 30 pages and 130 pages Charles
00:28:44
Manson's over five movie which is to
00:28:46
kill it
00:28:56
words collections of letters some
00:29:01
bearing an emotional charge others as
00:29:03
neutral as air perhaps providing a
00:29:06
window to the inner workings of the
00:29:08
diabolical mind I do Steve Farragut
00:29:14
remember the instructions based on test
00:29:18
responses to emotional and non emotional
00:29:20
words dr. Robert hare in Canada believes
00:29:23
that this normal subject can be
00:29:25
distinguished from a psychopath
00:29:27
sensitive electronic instruments show
00:29:30
that a normal person responds faster to
00:29:32
emotionally charged words than two words
00:29:34
that are neutral but psychopaths do not
00:29:37
make this distinction back dr. hare
00:29:40
believes this may help explain why
00:29:42
psychopaths don't have a conscience most
00:29:46
people talk about conscience in terms of
00:29:48
something like an inner voice talking to
00:29:50
oneself I shouldn't do that you know and
00:29:52
mommy said I shouldn't do it I shouldn't
00:29:53
do it and after a while becomes sort of
00:29:55
automatic we do that we refer to that as
00:29:56
conscience I would say that the
00:29:58
psychopath probably doesn't have the
00:30:00
same sort of inner voice that most
00:30:01
people have it may be that the language
00:30:04
process is or the ability of language
00:30:06
actually control behavior is different
00:30:08
in the Psychopaths than it is another
00:30:09
piece
00:30:12
dr. hares experiment is just one attempt
00:30:14
to unravel the most vexing mystery of
00:30:16
the diabolical mind are certain people
00:30:19
born as Psychopaths or do they become
00:30:21
Psychopaths if I were to cast my vote in
00:30:26
one direction or the other I'd probably
00:30:27
say that there's more likely they're
00:30:29
born not made I think that there are
00:30:31
fairly strong genetic contributions to
00:30:32
all personality traits including the
00:30:34
personality traits that make up
00:30:35
psychopathy I think it's pretty clear
00:30:37
that while people may have a inherited
00:30:40
susceptibility to certain kinds of
00:30:42
violent crimes that individuals who go
00:30:46
on to produce these kinds of abominable
00:30:49
crimes are created they're shaped by
00:30:52
their families they're shaped by their
00:30:54
societies they model the culture heroes
00:30:57
and in their civilization and they go on
00:31:00
to commit these abominable acts experts
00:31:05
are still years away from understanding
00:31:07
the mind of the psychopath for a
00:31:10
close-up look at the baffling enigma
00:31:11
such a personality unsolved mysteries
00:31:14
travel to Northern California to
00:31:16
interview convicted murderer G Daniel
00:31:18
Walker while he is not a serial killer
00:31:21
Walker is without doubt a diabolical
00:31:24
mind
00:31:28
at the time of the interview G Daniel
00:31:30
Walker was probably the only prisoner in
00:31:32
California with his own courthouse
00:31:34
workspace including a computer
00:31:36
privileges resulting from a lawsuit
00:31:39
against a state prison system over a
00:31:41
three-year period
00:31:43
Walker was driven several times a week
00:31:44
to the Alameda County Courthouse where
00:31:47
he prepared still more lawsuits against
00:31:49
judges district attorneys journalists
00:31:51
and corrections officials he is almost
00:31:54
as much trouble inside prison as out
00:32:05
Walker projects a Boyett confident
00:32:08
manner this amiable posture belies the
00:32:11
fraud armed robberies and murder which
00:32:13
have kept him institutionalized for most
00:32:15
of the past 35 years G Daniel Walker
00:32:21
served time in the late 1960s for armed
00:32:24
robbery in the attempted murder of an
00:32:25
Illinois policeman in 1972 he escaped
00:32:29
three months later he was arrested in
00:32:32
California for the murder of advertising
00:32:34
executive William Ashlock after the king
00:32:37
Walker allegedly raped Ashe Locke's
00:32:40
fiancee all the while proclaiming his
00:32:42
love for her he then terrorized her into
00:32:45
helping him cover up the crime
00:32:48
Walker defended himself in court
00:32:50
claiming Ashlock was a victim of a mafia
00:32:53
hit squad
00:32:54
Walker insisted that he had only helped
00:32:56
to cover up the murder to protect Ashe
00:32:58
Locke's fiancee
00:33:01
he lost his case and received a sentence
00:33:03
of 17 years to life in prison while
00:33:07
Walker insists he is innocent of the
00:33:09
murder charge the openly boasts of
00:33:11
having committed more than 300 other
00:33:13
crimes for which he has neither been
00:33:15
charged nor tried do you feel that you
00:33:20
are pretty much by the system where you
00:33:22
belong from the standpoint of yes yes I
00:33:24
am convicted of murder I've always
00:33:26
denied that I was the one that did the
00:33:28
actual shooting in Epicure case but I've
00:33:30
taken a witness stand
00:33:31
Walker was interviewed by former FBI
00:33:33
criminal profiler Robert Ressler in
00:33:36
concealing the crime and given the same
00:33:37
set of facts I would do it again
00:33:39
how long is your rap sheet I would think
00:33:43
the current one would probably be about
00:33:45
29 to 30 pages sometimes 30 page you
00:33:48
know Charles Manson's is only five well
00:33:50
he was just a killer but yeah at the
00:33:53
same time I've heard you say that you're
00:33:55
your criminal record your rap sheet your
00:33:58
FBI record whatever does not certainly
00:34:00
hold all that you have done definitely
00:34:03
not know the body of work of you know
00:34:05
the criminal enterprise has been much
00:34:07
greater and let's hope that I've been
00:34:09
successful in something see you're
00:34:10
meeting a failed criminal right now and
00:34:13
you're very happy to be meeting me as a
00:34:14
failed criminal because your medium is a
00:34:16
successful criminal it means that I'd
00:34:18
have the gun pointed at you and you
00:34:20
would suddenly have this person like him
00:34:21
can be extremely dangerous he doesn't
00:34:24
buy our system he does not buy our our
00:34:27
society's rules as we establish them and
00:34:30
again that's a mark of a psychopath or
00:34:32
sociopath it's a test that they make
00:34:34
their own rules in life you have had so
00:34:37
many opportunities to stay out of Gale
00:34:40
and yet you keep coming back in well
00:34:44
then again you see prison is not being
00:34:45
successful and just because you're in
00:34:47
prison doesn't mean you can't be
00:34:48
successful I think solsa Nissen said the
00:34:50
greatest freedom that a man enjoys is
00:34:51
being in prison because it feeds you
00:34:53
breakfast in the morning you can go out
00:34:54
and kill one of your cellmates and it'll
00:34:56
still feed you lunch and give you sheets
00:34:57
for your bed and evening the
00:34:59
psychopathic individual will use several
00:35:01
different defenses one of those is
00:35:03
rationalization he will come up with
00:35:06
very elaborate explanations that when
00:35:08
thought about very carefully make no
00:35:10
sense institutions are not
00:35:14
unsatisfying you got to remember I don't
00:35:16
have to go out and kill any cows they're
00:35:17
gonna do all that for me I don't have to
00:35:18
go out and cook any meals and I never
00:35:20
wash any dishes they're gonna do all
00:35:21
those things for me so the institution
00:35:23
becomes a wife by nature they're going
00:35:27
to wash my dirty socks for me they're
00:35:28
going to do all of the things that I
00:35:30
don't necessarily like to do so if
00:35:33
that's becoming institutionalized I'm
00:35:35
happily married if you had the option
00:35:39
would you leave I've had the option to
00:35:42
escape I have escaped as you know juries
00:35:44
have tried me and never found me guilty
00:35:45
of escape I've always represented myself
00:35:47
in those cases there is a certain
00:35:50
excitement when you have escaped from a
00:35:53
major penitentiary and you know that the
00:35:55
red lights are right behind you you know
00:35:56
the sirens are going there is a certain
00:35:58
excitement that you just it's better
00:36:00
than sex so yes there is that
00:36:02
possibility that there may be a 14th
00:36:04
escape you know I've heard that before
00:36:06
oh it's it's exciting the excitement is
00:36:09
is a high factor in in maintaining a
00:36:12
life the way you have and oftentimes
00:36:14
you'll find that the people are pursuing
00:36:16
you will lose the sense so you have to
00:36:17
go back and show them no no you've got
00:36:19
to turn this way fellows you know they
00:36:20
keep the chase going and I've done it
00:36:23
they will draw the interview into what
00:36:26
we call a narcissistic twinship where
00:36:29
they will try to do things to show in
00:36:31
what ways they are similar to the
00:36:33
interviewer and often times the
00:36:35
interviewer is both flattered and caught
00:36:38
off guard you know the minute you have
00:36:40
taken down a perpetrator and you've
00:36:41
taken them down that you guys get
00:36:43
together and give the high fly and say
00:36:44
well that was a great job you know well
00:36:47
the criminals do the same thing the
00:36:49
minute that you've outwitted if you get
00:36:50
together give the high-fives oh we got
00:36:52
over on them are you saying there's a
00:36:54
there's just a fine line between you and
00:36:56
I have been very fine lying and you know
00:36:57
it do you have any true feelings of
00:37:03
remorse well I would have to say take a
00:37:05
different tangent on that do I have
00:37:07
remorse for the things that put me there
00:37:08
we have to remember that the crime that
00:37:11
I'm in prison for I defended myself so
00:37:13
I'm the one that lost that case so I
00:37:16
have remorse that I didn't handle like
00:37:18
case in a little different way as far as
00:37:20
a psychopathic individual will engage in
00:37:23
a psychology of reversals
00:37:25
pain originates and other people
00:37:27
problems originate in other people and
00:37:30
responsibility for our behavior is
00:37:32
really other people's responsibility do
00:37:35
you feel that you are a truly dangerous
00:37:37
person from the standpoint of committing
00:37:39
violent acts only if you have done
00:37:41
something wrong to me I think what
00:37:43
you're referring to is effect from
00:37:45
prison Walker's somehow managed to have
00:37:47
a highly toxic poison imported into the
00:37:49
United States
00:37:50
a Deputy District Attorney would once
00:37:53
prosecuted Walker became terrified that
00:37:55
he might be Walker's target and where it
00:37:58
can't be traced
00:37:58
so when suddenly the system discovered
00:38:00
that I had 2.2 pounds of poison in the
00:38:03
United States they went crazy like what
00:38:06
does gee Daniel Walker want with this
00:38:08
poison well the little lady lives in
00:38:10
Dubuque Iowa that has an antique
00:38:12
collection that has never heard of the
00:38:13
name G Daniel Walker knew that I didn't
00:38:15
had that poison for her so she had no
00:38:17
concern there were a lot of Deputy
00:38:19
Attorney General's a lot of United
00:38:21
States Assistant United States
00:38:22
Attorney's that suddenly became very
00:38:24
uncomfortable there were a lot of judges
00:38:25
it became uncomfortable and they started
00:38:28
a major investigation
00:38:29
they indicted me a to a two count
00:38:31
indictment for importing this poison
00:38:33
they spent about a million three hundred
00:38:35
thousand dollars working up a
00:38:36
prosecution and then they folded their
00:38:38
tent because they found out that I
00:38:39
hadn't broken along did you use poison
00:38:42
they've never found any sufficient
00:38:45
evidence to charge me with having use it
00:38:47
but it certainly caused one Deputy
00:38:48
Attorney General in the state of
00:38:49
California to go through his cabinets
00:38:52
and take all ingestible items out
00:38:56
toothpaste and liquor and finally his
00:38:58
wife said well gee it could be in the
00:39:00
carpet so the recarpet of their home and
00:39:01
finally they sold a home moved so in
00:39:04
other words creating paranoia in a
00:39:07
person can be oftentimes even more
00:39:09
insidious and just making verbal threat
00:39:12
it's a better gamesmanship than doing
00:39:14
physical violence because fear lives
00:39:15
with you 24 hours a day fear never goes
00:39:17
away if you kill somebody
00:39:19
that's over or attempt to kill somebody
00:39:21
yes or you if you've hurt them you know
00:39:23
and as long as a pain is there that's
00:39:24
this but fear is a pain that lives with
00:39:27
you forever since 1977 G Daniel Walker
00:39:32
has been denied parole seven times
00:39:35
if the state does granting parole on the
00:39:37
murder charge Walker still faces a fifty
00:39:39
year term on federal charges stemming
00:39:41
from credit card fraud Z committed from
00:39:43
inside prison when we returned FBI in
00:39:51
Florida investigators track an elusive
00:39:53
diabolical killer
00:39:55
[Music]
00:40:04
on May 26 1989 Joann Rogers and her
00:40:09
daughters Michelle 17 and Christie 14
00:40:14
left their fireman Wilshire Ohio for a
00:40:17
long anticipated vacation in Florida
00:40:21
they visited the zoo in Jacksonville
00:40:23
then drove to Kennedy Space Center
00:40:25
Disney and the Epcot Center before
00:40:28
arriving in Tampa on June 1st to
00:40:30
Thursday there the Rodgers carefree
00:40:37
vacation came to a sudden and horrifying
00:40:40
end I knew this both be back maybe on
00:40:44
Saturday Sunday maybe a Monday
00:40:47
the Tuesday morning I got Google
00:40:49
concerned about it and I called her mom
00:40:51
and she hadn't even called her and I
00:40:54
knew something that happened then cuz
00:40:55
she's not type don't call I just figured
00:40:58
she couldn't get a hold of me and that's
00:41:01
why I think I reported him missing on
00:41:06
the same day Hal Rogers expected his
00:41:08
family to return home the bodies of
00:41:10
three unidentified women floated to the
00:41:12
surface of Tampa Bay each had been bound
00:41:16
with tape weighted with a cinder block
00:41:18
and dumped into the bay still alive all
00:41:22
three had apparently been sexually
00:41:24
assaulted
00:41:26
the victims were Joanne
00:41:29
Michelle and Kristi Rogers once again
00:41:32
authorities were confronted with a grim
00:41:34
harvest of an unknown psychopathic
00:41:37
killer mail serial killers are so
00:41:41
difficult to apprehend they kill
00:41:44
strangers unknown motive no crime scene
00:41:48
no fingerprints no other physical
00:41:51
evidence usually only a dump site and
00:41:55
that is the modus operandi of the male
00:41:59
serial killer the murders of joy and
00:42:04
Michelle and Kristi were classic
00:42:06
psychopathic killings cunningly
00:42:08
conceived and executed without remorse
00:42:10
the maddening scarcity of evidence is
00:42:13
limited authorities to assumptions and
00:42:15
speculation without a name face of
00:42:18
fingerprint police have attempted to
00:42:19
construct the profile of a killer it is
00:42:22
at best a slow frustrating process
00:42:28
Tampa Bay was the final stop on the
00:42:30
Rogers itinerary before they returned to
00:42:32
Ohio Joanne Michele and Christy checked
00:42:41
into their motel around early June first
00:42:43
within hours phaeton happenstance
00:42:46
brought them in to the range of a
00:42:48
hurricane killer we believe that they
00:42:51
were victims of opportunity what that
00:42:53
means basically is he surveilled them he
00:42:57
knew that they were the ones that he
00:42:59
wanted to approach and he had planned
00:43:01
this but it wasn't that much in advance
00:43:02
because the circumstances of their of
00:43:04
their travels wouldn't lend to that
00:43:08
authorities believe that in order to
00:43:10
bring Joanne and her daughters under his
00:43:12
control that killer first had to
00:43:14
overcome their natural suspicions
00:43:17
we feel that the offender presented
00:43:19
himself in a very non-threatening manner
00:43:22
something where he made it enticing or
00:43:24
inviting to them struck up a
00:43:25
conversation and that in his physical
00:43:27
appearance he was probably pleasing to
00:43:29
look at
00:43:29
someone that they felt comfortable with
00:43:31
appears to be the car it's a two-door on
00:43:36
Julie 8 the Rogers car was found at a
00:43:39
boat ramp near their motel inside was a
00:43:42
sinister hint that the women had been
00:43:44
entrapped we found a note in that
00:43:49
vehicle that indicated directions for
00:43:52
the victims to go to the boat ramp and
00:43:54
to meet someone there with something
00:43:57
that's blue / white that would lead us
00:44:00
to believe that they went there to meet
00:44:03
a blue and white boat
00:44:04
[Music]
00:44:06
police are convinced that Joanne Rogers
00:44:09
and the two girls were lured to their
00:44:10
deaths probably by the promise of an
00:44:13
innocent boat ride and probably by more
00:44:15
than one assailant they got on the boat
00:44:22
with this person or these people and at
00:44:27
that time I'm sure they felt very safe
00:44:28
with them and that was the killer's plan
00:44:31
[Music]
00:44:33
he knew what he was gonna do to those
00:44:35
victims before they ever got on his boat
00:44:44
we think a person like this will kill
00:44:47
again in all probability has killed
00:44:48
again however we think that he was
00:44:52
surprised that the bodies surfaced as
00:44:54
quickly as they did
00:44:55
and in his killing subsequent to this he
00:44:58
will change his manner and his method of
00:45:00
disposal of any bodies the psychological
00:45:05
profile of the killer is provided
00:45:06
investigated with some insights into
00:45:08
this ugly crime but has failed to
00:45:10
pinpoint a specific suspect police have
00:45:13
only a few admittedly slim leads that
00:45:15
might result in the capture of this
00:45:17
confident and ruthless psychopath a
00:45:22
guest at the motel on the day of the
00:45:24
Rogers death reported seeing a young
00:45:26
well-groomed white male loading a cooler
00:45:29
into a white boat with dark blue racing
00:45:31
stripes the boat was towed by a dark
00:45:34
colored Chevy Blazer or Ford Bronco
00:45:36
efforts to locate this person have so
00:45:39
far been unsuccessful
00:45:54
[Music]
00:46:02
[Music]
00:46:14
it is easy to feel overwhelmed and
00:46:17
frightened by the many faces of the
00:46:19
sociopath
00:46:21
the immediacy of television makes us
00:46:24
feel as though every murder every horror
00:46:26
is happening right down the block
00:46:29
in reality violent Psychopaths an
00:46:32
extreme rarity unfortunately few of us
00:46:34
will ever encounter one there is still
00:46:37
much to learn about this disturbing
00:46:39
phenomenon in terms of identifying it
00:46:40
predicting it and preventing it thank
00:46:43
you for joining us and please join us
00:46:45
next time for another edition of
00:46:47
unsolved mysteries
00:46:55
[Music]
00:47:17
[Applause]
00:47:21
[Music]
00:47:29
you
00:47:30
[Music]
