00:00:00
join me in welcoming Congressman rocana
00:00:02
to the stage please
00:00:06
[Music]
00:00:25
[Music]
00:00:31
so uh I think you guys know rokana he's
00:00:34
in his fourth term representing uh
00:00:36
California's 17th District which is
00:00:38
Silicon Valley and he's been a leading
00:00:40
voice in Congress to restore American
00:00:42
manufacturing and Technology leadership
00:00:44
and I think we want to talk to you about
00:00:47
um you know the chip spill and um and
00:00:49
our and domestic politics but we just
00:00:52
finished a great conversation with
00:00:53
Graham Allison yeah about China and I
00:00:56
think you're also on a subcommittee on
00:00:59
China and so I think it'd be great just
00:01:01
to maybe get start with just maybe an
00:01:03
update from you on where is the thinking
00:01:05
in Washington on China it it feels like
00:01:09
in general
00:01:11
um you know other countries have Hawks
00:01:14
and doves whereas in the United States
00:01:16
we have Hawks and lunatics
00:01:19
um like I don't know of any doves in
00:01:21
Washington
00:01:23
um and you know that's a little bit
00:01:24
concerning I think that there was a
00:01:26
readout I think from the last time
00:01:28
um that I think uh we we sent I think
00:01:31
Lincoln might have gone to China and the
00:01:33
readoff from the Chinese side is they
00:01:34
said relations with the US are the worst
00:01:36
they've ever been since diplomatic
00:01:39
contacts are reestablished in the 1970s
00:01:40
so
00:01:42
like Graham said the relationship was
00:01:44
going from you know worst to worst
00:01:47
um you know I guess describe to us what
00:01:50
you're seeing from in in Washington how
00:01:52
should we how worried should we be about
00:01:54
this relationship
00:01:55
we should be concerned let me uh
00:01:59
focus on three areas one where I agree
00:02:02
with the bipartisan consensus and that
00:02:05
is that we should have never allowed
00:02:08
China to accumulate the trade deficit
00:02:11
that they have the advantage with the
00:02:13
United States I mean we have a trade
00:02:15
deficit with China India has a trade
00:02:17
deficit with China Japan has a trade
00:02:19
deficit with China South Korea has a
00:02:22
trade deficit with China I don't
00:02:23
understand how the whole entire world
00:02:24
said let's have all our production go to
00:02:26
China
00:02:27
let me ask you this if if we had said
00:02:30
you know who who needs Wall Street who
00:02:31
needs a finance industry let London just
00:02:33
do it or who needs a tech industry let
00:02:36
Europe just do it or who needs Hollywood
00:02:39
let Bollywood make all the movies people
00:02:41
would have laughed and yet that's what
00:02:43
we did with Manufacturing
00:02:45
it's not that we need manufacturing as
00:02:48
the penultimate industry it's that we
00:02:49
needed it to be part of a well-balanced
00:02:51
economy and so the push to rebalance the
00:02:54
economy with China to bring production
00:02:55
back which by the way is in China's own
00:02:57
interests because they have over indexed
00:02:59
for an export production economy at the
00:03:02
expense of their own consumers and at
00:03:03
the expense of real wealth generation
00:03:05
which happens also in the finance and
00:03:07
Tech sectors that I think there's a
00:03:10
bipartisan uh push foreign consensus and
00:03:13
is the right policy and that's I think
00:03:14
actually what people in Pennsylvania and
00:03:16
Ohio care the most about give us our
00:03:18
jobs that went to China
00:03:20
in terms of the defense on Taiwan there
00:03:23
is a difference of approaches I am
00:03:27
clearly uh of the belief that we should
00:03:30
continue with the Strategic ambiguity in
00:03:31
one China policy it was a policy that
00:03:34
Kissinger uh had and we had three
00:03:37
communique after that now what does that
00:03:39
mean it means simply that we can do
00:03:43
everything possible to assist Taiwan
00:03:45
under the Taiwan Relations Act to make
00:03:48
sure that China is deterred from a
00:03:50
military invasion of Taiwan and we
00:03:53
should we should provide them long-range
00:03:54
weapons we should provide them harpoons
00:03:56
we should provide them hymers but we
00:03:59
should recognize that the future of
00:04:02
China and Taiwan is to be determined by
00:04:04
China and Taiwan in peaceful uh dialogue
00:04:08
but if China does anything to be
00:04:10
coercive the United States will do
00:04:13
everything to assist Taiwan with the
00:04:15
defense that is the policy that has
00:04:17
stood as well for 50 years and I believe
00:04:19
can continue you to stand as well some
00:04:21
people have demagogued this issue I'm
00:04:23
not going to name names saying well
00:04:25
we're not prepared we are prepared I
00:04:27
mean we have the enabled superiority in
00:04:29
the Pacific uh we have our seventh fleet
00:04:33
deployed we have nuclear-powered
00:04:35
submarines in the area we will make sure
00:04:38
that China is uh detard and then the
00:04:41
final policy is do we want to talk to
00:04:44
them I think we should talk to them like
00:04:46
I don't understand why you wouldn't have
00:04:48
people having dialogue or communication
00:04:51
with China we had that at the height of
00:04:53
the Cold War
00:04:57
do they want to talk to us it seems like
00:05:00
they're not so talkative right now we
00:05:01
keep sending people over there and
00:05:03
trying to start a dialogue oh they talk
00:05:06
to Elon I mean that's it you know I Elon
00:05:09
showed up there I think before our
00:05:10
secretary of state or said hey you know
00:05:12
I and and I I'm being half
00:05:15
serious but uh
00:05:17
our business leaders have more access
00:05:19
into China than our military political
00:05:21
or government leaders that's a problem
00:05:24
like how is it that Bob Iger Tim Cook
00:05:26
and Elon Musk are doing the diplomacy
00:05:28
with China and get more meetings and
00:05:31
more uh conversations
00:05:33
they're in business together well yeah
00:05:36
but then we need to have a policy where
00:05:39
we're meeting them and helping determine
00:05:42
what that part is why something with the
00:05:44
person say the other half of it it's
00:05:46
what is happening or what is what is our
00:05:48
political class saying that is
00:05:50
short-circuiting the ability to go over
00:05:52
there and actually have the money I they
00:05:54
they've invited me to come over and I've
00:05:56
said I'm in the Democratic side of the
00:05:58
house and I said I've got to go on a
00:05:59
bipartisan basis I'm trying to get a
00:06:01
republican to go over with me and to get
00:06:03
senators and I said I don't understand
00:06:05
how we're not going over to have a
00:06:07
conversation you want to lecture them
00:06:08
about the uyghurs let's go over and
00:06:09
lecture them about the uyghurs you want
00:06:11
to make sure that they're not engaged in
00:06:13
spying let's talk about that but let's
00:06:15
talk there has not been a bipartisan
00:06:18
Congressional Delegation to China since
00:06:22
before covet this is not in the interest
00:06:25
I don't care whether you're a hawk or a
00:06:27
dove you have to why because people are
00:06:29
afraid of being seen as a week of people
00:06:32
which group of people are you saying
00:06:35
Republicans are afraid to well I don't
00:06:36
want to I I think they're they're that's
00:06:39
what you mean
00:06:40
David's sitting right there
00:06:48
there's a lot of crazy Hawks in the GOP
00:06:51
establishment I mean as I think about
00:06:52
the biggest lunatics in foreign policy
00:06:55
in Washington that like someone like
00:06:56
Lindsey Graham comes to mind so I'm not
00:06:58
I'm not a defender of the GOP
00:07:00
establishment on on foreign policy I'd
00:07:02
like to see some changes there but I
00:07:03
think you know Roe you brought up a
00:07:05
great point about the unwillingness to
00:07:06
engage in diplomacy one of the ways that
00:07:11
um that you first really came to my
00:07:13
attention I became a fan of yours is
00:07:15
when you and the progressive caucus
00:07:17
wrote a letter to the Biden
00:07:20
Administration encouraging there to be a
00:07:22
diplomatic track on this Ukraine war
00:07:25
even as you are still
00:07:27
you were still saying listen we're going
00:07:29
to provide Ukraine with everything it
00:07:30
needs but in addition we simply want to
00:07:33
have a diplomatic track with Russia and
00:07:36
the amazing thing was even suggesting
00:07:38
that was so transgressive that I think
00:07:42
virtually every member of the
00:07:43
progressive caucus except for you
00:07:45
retracted the letter
00:07:47
and so you know I really applaud you for
00:07:51
sticking to your guns on that and that's
00:07:52
when after
00:07:57
and um and then there was also the the
00:08:00
uh the episode in the Twitter files
00:08:02
where you were encouraging the old
00:08:03
Twitter management to realize that the
00:08:05
censorship they do were doing was
00:08:06
backfiring so after those two things I
00:08:09
was like this is a Democrat I could
00:08:10
support and uh and we did a we did a
00:08:13
very successful fundraiser for you so uh
00:08:15
at any event so I've been a fan of rose
00:08:17
for a while but I think this um this
00:08:19
unwillingness to engage in diplomacy and
00:08:23
talking to the other side because
00:08:25
somehow it's weak or somehow it'll give
00:08:27
the other side or is it anti-patriotic
00:08:29
because that's the tone I seen change in
00:08:32
Silicon Valley in the last three years
00:08:33
you know this summer I pointed out some
00:08:36
friends we went to this thing and
00:08:37
suddenly everyone was anti-china I
00:08:39
couldn't believe it because two summers
00:08:41
ago three summers ago I was like maybe
00:08:42
it'll be a couple years maybe it'll be a
00:08:44
decade something something will happen
00:08:46
something's a brewing this summer it was
00:08:48
like you're talking to China you're not
00:08:51
a patriot you were with us or against us
00:08:53
and if you start to suggest anything
00:08:55
otherwise any sort of coopetition or
00:08:57
cooperation you are un-American is that
00:09:01
a sense you're getting that the tone has
00:09:02
changed in Washington that that's sort
00:09:04
of
00:09:05
blanketed now the yeah I think there are
00:09:08
a lot of people who
00:09:09
assume that we are in a cold war whereas
00:09:13
I want to try to prevent the 21st
00:09:15
century from defaulting to the same
00:09:17
paradigms of the last one but you know
00:09:19
what's unpatriotic the hollowing out of
00:09:21
this country where were these voices for
00:09:23
the past 40 years where you had
00:09:25
corporations say we want to go to the
00:09:27
cheapest labor we want to go to the
00:09:28
lowest environmental standards we want
00:09:30
to build profits and we don't care what
00:09:33
happens to Johnstown Pennsylvania and
00:09:35
Warren Ohio and down river Michigan
00:09:38
we're going to hollow out the industry
00:09:39
the working class is going to fall
00:09:41
behind we're going to let wealth
00:09:43
concentrate in a few areas do you think
00:09:45
people who are growing up or in these
00:09:47
areas are saying you know what I really
00:09:49
really care about is the defense of
00:09:51
Taiwan no they care about their jobs
00:09:53
they care about access to the American
00:09:54
dream they're wondering why this country
00:09:56
let them down for the past 40 years
00:09:58
patriotic would be to rebuild that
00:10:03
you represent a district in Silicon
00:10:05
Valley and a lot of this has been driven
00:10:08
by The Leverage and we've gotten from
00:10:11
technology and a lot of the
00:10:12
beneficiaries of what you're saying are
00:10:14
the shareholders the employees the
00:10:17
executives of Silicon Valley technology
00:10:18
companies when they say to you this is
00:10:20
what the consumer Market wants they want
00:10:22
an iPhone for 400 not for two thousand
00:10:25
dollars how do we respond to the
00:10:27
conversation about what market and what
00:10:29
technology and what you know economic
00:10:31
progress is demanding of them as
00:10:33
representatives for their shareholders I
00:10:36
don't I'm not a
00:10:38
believer in autarkey I'm a Believer in
00:10:41
having some enough self-sufficiency why
00:10:44
can't we build the modern steel plants
00:10:46
in the United States we went from the
00:10:48
largest exporter of Steel to the largest
00:10:51
importer of Steel the carbon footprint
00:10:54
of Steel is three times higher in China
00:10:57
nine out of 15 top steel companies are
00:11:00
in China we don't have a single one why
00:11:03
can't we have the government work with
00:11:04
the private sector to build modern steel
00:11:06
plants in this country why don't we do
00:11:09
that with aluminum and number of number
00:11:10
of areas to answer that question be that
00:11:13
we have the lowest unemployment in the
00:11:16
history of our lifetimes and we're not
00:11:18
allowing people into the country and we
00:11:19
don't have people to work in steel
00:11:21
factory I don't think that's what I know
00:11:22
I'm asking him well look I'm for
00:11:24
immigration policy but when people talk
00:11:27
about the 3.5 unemployment rate
00:11:30
what they're not talking about is the
00:11:32
lives of people who went from 30 jobs to
00:11:35
15 to 17 jobs who don't have the same
00:11:37
Economic Security who've seen health
00:11:39
care costs increase we've seen child
00:11:41
care costs increase we've seen College
00:11:43
costs increase and we aren't being able
00:11:46
to buy houses and so we're going around
00:11:47
the governing class saying 3.5 percent
00:11:49
unemployment inflation's at three
00:11:51
percent and people are saying I'm paying
00:11:52
five bucks for gas my kids don't have a
00:11:55
future into uh the middle class and
00:11:57
we've lost the productive capacity in
00:12:00
many parts of this country I heard some
00:12:01
of what Ray dalio talked about and
00:12:04
here's where I think and I I think look
00:12:06
I think Ray dalio dalio is a is what
00:12:09
makes America exceptional because dalio
00:12:11
would be would have been and I'm taking
00:12:13
a little bit of Liberty here the person
00:12:15
who would have been writing the article
00:12:16
in the 1980s saying Japan and Germany
00:12:19
are going to be the dominant post-cold
00:12:21
War economy is not the United States
00:12:22
like Paul Samuelson predicted
00:12:24
incorrectly but that's precisely what
00:12:26
makes us great because we actually have
00:12:27
voices who are skeptical and in some
00:12:30
what pessimistic to recharge us the
00:12:33
depth to GDP ratio matters if you can't
00:12:35
increase the GDP we need debt which is
00:12:39
productive investment which is actually
00:12:40
going to grow the GDP and to the extent
00:12:43
that we have Investments that are going
00:12:45
to rebuild the productive base that's
00:12:46
going to leverage all of this technology
00:12:49
in the United States to help grow the
00:12:51
economy that actually is what's going to
00:12:53
allow us to be and continue to lead and
00:12:56
I think jamad's question is to the point
00:12:58
I mean where are we people aren't going
00:12:59
to put the money in India or China the
00:13:01
issue is not immigration
00:13:03
that
00:13:05
regulatory corrosion
00:13:07
has taken simple decision-making hostage
00:13:10
in America I'll give you a simple
00:13:12
example
00:13:13
if you're a pro-climate change
00:13:17
it is easier today to go into India and
00:13:21
build a rare earth mine because it can
00:13:24
get permitted within months than it is
00:13:27
to even go to a red State like Nevada
00:13:29
because for five years an effort to
00:13:32
build the largest lithium reserve and to
00:13:34
develop it has been held up because the
00:13:36
BLM has been stuck in a lawsuit with
00:13:39
some folks environmentalists who want to
00:13:41
protect the Upper Land Grouse now I'm
00:13:43
not going to debate the value of the
00:13:44
Upper Land Grouse except to say that's
00:13:46
been a five-year slog through hell
00:13:49
and this other one took 18 months and
00:13:51
it's starting to ship
00:13:53
and I know this because I'm involved in
00:13:55
both and so the reason why it's
00:13:57
problematic is when somebody like
00:13:58
manchin tries to actually put in
00:14:01
permitting reform simple things
00:14:04
and he has to hold up or you know kill
00:14:07
another build to try to get these things
00:14:08
in somehow The Blob just comes in and
00:14:11
then nothing changes that's actually why
00:14:14
nothing really productive can happen
00:14:15
sometimes if you want to build the right
00:14:17
thing it's just not possible and I what
00:14:20
I want to understand is how much of that
00:14:22
regulatory creep
00:14:24
has just been independent of Democrats
00:14:27
and Republicans
00:14:28
and what do you do to pull it back
00:14:35
well look I I I am for
00:14:38
a version of Permitting reform I didn't
00:14:40
I don't agree with all the mentions I
00:14:42
didn't agree with the Mountain Valley
00:14:43
Pipeline and The Willow oil drilling
00:14:45
projects I want to be transparent and
00:14:47
not just say to the to you what you may
00:14:49
want to hear but I I do think we need
00:14:51
permitting reform we need permitting
00:14:53
reform on the semiconductor Bill the
00:14:55
chip spill to make sure that those
00:14:57
factories actually are getting built for
00:14:59
nationally important projects we need it
00:15:01
for solar wind and for a clean
00:15:04
infrastructure but I think it is a red
00:15:06
here we need it for housing in this in
00:15:08
this state I mean talk about one of the
00:15:10
biggest regulatory captures is that we
00:15:12
aren't building enough housing in
00:15:14
California and because of restrictive
00:15:16
zoning laws but I think it is it it's
00:15:18
not sufficient to just say we lost our
00:15:21
industry uh because uh we didn't have
00:15:24
permitting I mean like we that's not why
00:15:26
we lost steel we lost steel we lost
00:15:28
aluminum we lost paper we lost textile
00:15:30
because we didn't care we said let those
00:15:33
jobs go to where it would be cheaper it
00:15:35
doesn't matter people can go get other
00:15:37
jobs and the governor government has to
00:15:39
finance and this is where I am a
00:15:42
Democrat if you look at what Built
00:15:43
America it was Hamilton and it was
00:15:45
Roosevelt and it was Roosevelt after
00:15:48
during World War II it wasn't just the
00:15:50
New Deal unemployment at the until 1940
00:15:53
was at about 15 percent and then
00:15:55
Roosevelt goes to corporations and he
00:15:57
says we're going to finance the
00:15:58
production in this country unemployment
00:16:00
Falls to four percent that sets a modern
00:16:02
industry and we need to have in an
00:16:05
effort to rebuild America with
00:16:07
government partnering with the private
00:16:09
sector and uh labor to do that across
00:16:12
the industrial Midwest I have a bill
00:16:13
with Rubio actually to do that to create
00:16:16
a permanent Economic Development Council
00:16:18
Marco Rubio and that by the way that's a
00:16:21
common mission for this country that we
00:16:23
can get behind we need something that's
00:16:25
going when my father came here in the
00:16:27
1960s this was a country that went to
00:16:29
the moon this was where the energy was
00:16:31
this is where we were building things we
00:16:34
need to recapture that to have a common
00:16:36
purpose in this country and one place to
00:16:38
do that is to be able to rebuild
00:16:40
industry permitting is part of it but we
00:16:42
need a comprehensive strategy
00:16:45
can we talk about
00:16:49
um your proposal last week I think it
00:16:51
was a political reform proposal and can
00:16:53
you share some of the details of the
00:16:54
announcement you made and why yeah I was
00:16:57
surprised I thought it was
00:16:59
relatively I've never been able to
00:17:01
predict which tweet goes viral you know
00:17:05
there are times like Elon has retweeted
00:17:06
me it doesn't go viral none of us can't
00:17:08
you know only when sex retweets maybe it
00:17:11
goes viral I don't know it's a slot
00:17:12
machine so there are only two tweets
00:17:15
that I've ever done that have like gone
00:17:16
viral this year one was when I said the
00:17:18
obvious which was that Senator Feinstein
00:17:21
should step aside and then the second
00:17:23
one was and you want to unpack that one
00:17:26
the second one was this political reform
00:17:30
proposal where I said you know let's
00:17:32
have term limits for members of Congress
00:17:34
and Senators let's not have any
00:17:36
corporate
00:17:37
tax money or any tax money any lobbyist
00:17:40
let's have term limits for Supreme Court
00:17:42
Justices let's ban stock trading and
00:17:45
also ban members of Congress ban it for
00:17:47
members of Congress and also band
00:17:49
members of Congress from becoming
00:17:51
lobbyists this was Common Sense things
00:17:53
and I think people are so starved for
00:17:56
restoring trust now here is the honest
00:17:59
truth in my view most members of
00:18:00
Congress you may not disagree with this
00:18:02
but of the 435 at least 300 to 350 of
00:18:05
good motives going in they want to do
00:18:07
the right thing they may disagree but
00:18:09
we're in a situation where we have lost
00:18:11
the trust of the American people most
00:18:13
Americans think members of Congress are
00:18:15
lying they think they're corrupt they
00:18:17
think they're self-serving I don't care
00:18:19
that we have good intentions that's the
00:18:21
perception so in that void stems the
00:18:25
place for demagoguery because people are
00:18:27
cynical about the process we've got to
00:18:29
take some bold steps to clean up the
00:18:32
system so that people can so we can do
00:18:33
these big projects of rebuilding the
00:18:35
country how did your co-workers take
00:18:37
your
00:18:42
well they haven't been retweeting yet so
00:18:45
they you know we'll see how many okay so
00:18:47
just our constituents we treated it so
00:18:49
can you talk about politics of the
00:18:51
career in answering that question I've
00:18:52
always had this bias against Politics as
00:18:54
a career you know kind of thinking about
00:18:56
the intention of the founding fathers
00:18:58
that the citizenry should serve they
00:19:00
should serve the people they should go
00:19:01
to government they should do their their
00:19:03
civil civic duty to the tour and do
00:19:05
their tour and then leave and that
00:19:07
building a career in politics and I
00:19:08
don't mean this um
00:19:10
in any negative kind of light on your
00:19:12
choice but that that there is a career
00:19:15
that is built in politics that there is
00:19:16
a a return on that investment that that
00:19:19
becomes uh you know a a career that some
00:19:22
of these politicians have made a lot of
00:19:23
money pursuing is that the right thing
00:19:26
and how do you think about how we should
00:19:28
have politicians elected and what the
00:19:30
intention should be on who should be in
00:19:32
that role for how long and well there's
00:19:34
a there's obviously a problem in our
00:19:36
country and I don't say this with a any
00:19:38
person in mind because I don't want to
00:19:40
get in to too much trouble but look at
00:19:43
people look at Silicon Valley it's one
00:19:45
of the most dynamic places in the world
00:19:48
and you have people who are elected
00:19:50
there and still elected they're before
00:19:53
AOL and Yahoo and we've had Facebook and
00:19:55
Google and these are being disrupted
00:19:57
politicians and you think how you know
00:20:01
how is it that how is it that Silicon
00:20:03
Valley isn't just producing more and
00:20:06
different voices I mean and it's there's
00:20:09
something broken
00:20:10
the turnover rate of U.S members of
00:20:13
Congress was less as according to the
00:20:17
economist than certain aristocratic and
00:20:20
and and monarchies in in Europe what
00:20:23
what what's broken fundraising or well
00:20:25
there are a couple of things or
00:20:26
democracy or the way we do democracy
00:20:28
it's if you're an incumbent you have a
00:20:31
huge Name ID advantage
00:20:33
uh I would never have I mean you're
00:20:35
gonna have vinod on next time and and
00:20:37
and and I had people like him and others
00:20:39
when I was at three percent in the polls
00:20:41
uh going up against someone at 60 saying
00:20:43
sure this seems like a great plan that's
00:20:45
because in Silicon Valley you can get
00:20:47
that and then when I lost people like
00:20:49
yeah let's double down because you got
00:20:50
to have a couple of failures but that's
00:20:51
so unusual you don't have that in most
00:20:54
places so if you're going up against an
00:20:56
incumbent it's very very hard you uh
00:20:59
have a huge disadvantage it's a term
00:21:02
limits solved that term limit solve that
00:21:04
in terms of people say well we we should
00:21:06
have the voters have the real choice
00:21:08
but the voters aren't having real choice
00:21:10
I mean let's be real they're only about
00:21:12
30 40 actual congressional seats that
00:21:14
are contested so it's not like you have
00:21:16
real choice in the matter because of the
00:21:18
fundraising and the incumbency advantage
00:21:21
and I I don't have a problem with people
00:21:23
who want to dedicate themselves to
00:21:24
public service but just you don't have
00:21:26
to do it in one position you can do it
00:21:28
in a lot of other ways let's talk about
00:21:29
age limits because it's front and center
00:21:32
after what we saw at Mitch McConnell and
00:21:35
everybody else I don't want to single
00:21:36
anybody out but this feels like
00:21:40
um it's uh I mean Biden obviously yeah
00:21:43
go ahead sax fans of cheer um
00:21:47
uh no it just feels crazy that we have
00:21:49
people this old
00:21:52
running the country and they're
00:21:55
obviously glitching and there's a
00:21:57
problem here
00:21:59
we all see it why can't we just have an
00:22:02
age limit and let people retire and
00:22:04
enjoy their lives I mean or do you think
00:22:06
we should have a cognitive test I'm I'm
00:22:08
being a little funny here but I'm dead
00:22:10
serious like why don't we have a
00:22:12
cognitive test
00:22:13
for the presidency for these positions
00:22:15
and would you be in favor of that I
00:22:17
think the cognitive tests should be the
00:22:19
American public but I think if you have
00:22:20
the reforms if you have the reforms that
00:22:23
I'm talking about of term limits of
00:22:25
getting the PAC money out of getting the
00:22:27
lobbyist money out of uh having uh a a
00:22:31
fairer political system then you'd give
00:22:34
new voices and opportunity you wouldn't
00:22:36
be stuck with people just because they
00:22:37
have Name ID and fundraising running for
00:22:40
these positions but I will be a little
00:22:42
bit philosophical about why we have a
00:22:45
situation where we have so many people
00:22:47
who are older in all these positions and
00:22:50
I I think we're we're not going to see
00:22:52
the dam break in 24 but I do think we'll
00:22:54
see the damn break in the next cycle and
00:22:57
the reason is look this country is going
00:22:59
through incredible change the people who
00:23:02
are down on America I think forget how
00:23:05
exceptional it is what we're trying to
00:23:07
do we are 60 white non-hispanic Canada
00:23:11
it's like 87 white Britain 80 some
00:23:13
percent white Australia 80 some percent
00:23:15
white we are trying to become the first
00:23:18
cohesive multiracial multi-ethnic
00:23:20
democracy in the history of the world
00:23:23
and to think
00:23:25
there was going to be a linear line from
00:23:27
Obama to that was I think naive and some
00:23:31
of what is happening is people feel that
00:23:34
the challenge that the country is
00:23:36
changing the country they knew was
00:23:37
changing and so people who are familiar
00:23:40
who have a familiarity have an advantage
00:23:43
in having that trust factor with the
00:23:45
American public but we have to we have
00:23:47
to at some point be willing to say look
00:23:49
we need new leadership but we need new
00:23:51
leadership that's going to speak to
00:23:53
people's
00:23:54
concerns and and the past and that's why
00:23:57
I talked about steel because at least
00:23:59
that's a job that people can relate to
00:24:00
we have to be empathetic to their
00:24:03
narratives why has Vivek and RFK which
00:24:07
we had on the program resonated with the
00:24:09
American public to such an amazing
00:24:12
extent and what do you think of each of
00:24:14
those individuals
00:24:16
you could be candid this is all in yeah
00:24:19
this is all on the internet you can go
00:24:20
candid look
00:24:22
thanks you know obvious obviously I'm
00:24:25
supporting President Biden but I've said
00:24:27
people should run and they should bring
00:24:28
things in and uh you know let me there
00:24:31
are a lot of places I disagree with
00:24:33
Robert Kennedy but one place that I
00:24:35
think he has raised uh important issues
00:24:38
is why do we have so many overseas bases
00:24:40
why do we have a defense budget that's
00:24:42
approaching a trillion dollars uh why do
00:24:45
we have so many uh handouts for
00:24:47
pharmaceuticals so my hope is that the
00:24:50
places where he is raising some of those
00:24:52
points will become part of our
00:24:53
Democratic platform their large places I
00:24:55
don't think you're you know he's he's
00:24:57
ready to be president United States and
00:24:58
I think I support President Biden and I
00:25:01
disagree with him on some of the let's
00:25:03
just
00:25:15
now you know what it's like to be me in
00:25:17
the YouTube comments this let's do the
00:25:20
vague what do you think here's the thing
00:25:22
though with politicians that one of the
00:25:24
problems they go to it you think I don't
00:25:26
know the people in this audience like
00:25:28
Bob Ken Robert Kennedy Jr but they go
00:25:31
and they tell one audience one thing
00:25:32
another audience anything it's something
00:25:34
else when I was at Sax's house or if I
00:25:35
go to a progressive group I tell the
00:25:37
same thing to every audience and I think
00:25:39
ultimately people want that
00:25:42
because he's 38 years old
00:25:45
becoming a bit of a sensation getting to
00:25:46
double digits in the polls is nothing to
00:25:49
um you know yeah it's pretty
00:25:51
insignificant so well look what I think
00:25:53
of him I I I think people wanted uh
00:25:55
there's an underlying hunger for the
00:25:58
Next Generation but I but my sense is
00:26:01
well what are the proposals I mean I
00:26:03
disagreed with him when he was in my
00:26:05
view demagoguing the Silicon Valley Bank
00:26:07
issue I don't think he has you know to
00:26:10
describe the uh January 6th uh
00:26:15
insurrectionists or people who broke
00:26:17
into the capital as non-violent peaceful
00:26:20
protest which is what Gandhi talked
00:26:22
about with satyagrah is a real
00:26:25
Distortion of what that what movement
00:26:26
was about to say that the Civil Rights
00:26:28
Movement would have been better if you
00:26:30
had people armed like did he read Dr
00:26:33
King I didn't I don't I don't think that
00:26:34
there were guns so do I think it's it's
00:26:37
it's it speaks to our democracy look why
00:26:40
why did I defend Free Speech because
00:26:41
that's what I love about America that
00:26:43
anyone can have an opinion in this kind
00:26:45
tree and that's part of the messy
00:26:46
democracy and to that extent I'm glad we
00:26:49
have all these candidates but I have
00:26:50
profound disagreements with him
00:26:53
do you think President Biden is
00:26:58
intent on running because he has the
00:27:01
energy and desire to be president or is
00:27:03
that just the
00:27:05
uh is that is that or is that just more
00:27:09
the expectation when you're the
00:27:10
incumbent and it's the it's the opposite
00:27:13
that's worse than you know the uh the
00:27:15
the idea that then seeding power to the
00:27:18
other side keeps them there to run well
00:27:20
this is someone who ran for president
00:27:22
three times you know you don't want to
00:27:24
underestimate a person's ambition and
00:27:27
their resolve and I think people have uh
00:27:29
underestimated Biden both in the primary
00:27:32
and against Trump my sense is he
00:27:35
probably thinks that he has the best
00:27:36
chance to win against Donald Trump who I
00:27:38
think will be the nominee and the reason
00:27:40
is because until other people in the
00:27:43
Democratic party can speak to folks in
00:27:46
places like Pennsylvania Michigan Ohio
00:27:48
about the loss that they have felt in uh
00:27:52
industry and can connect and have a real
00:27:54
Vision there they're not going to be
00:27:56
able to win those States in my sense is
00:27:57
he probably thinks that he has the best
00:28:00
chance to win those States against
00:28:01
Donald let me let me ask a question
00:28:02
that's not Biden because I think it
00:28:04
applies to Biden Trump when Reagan left
00:28:07
the presidency
00:28:08
we learned that he had early onset
00:28:11
Alzheimer's and that he had Alzheimer's
00:28:13
I think he like it started showing
00:28:14
symptoms in the last two years of office
00:28:17
it's a very scary idea again and I think
00:28:19
Reagan did a lot of great things but the
00:28:21
reality is it creates a risk of a shadow
00:28:23
government right of people that were
00:28:25
unelected people that we don't
00:28:26
necessarily know where do they stand
00:28:28
what are they about in charge of very
00:28:31
critical aspects of the presidency
00:28:33
when you have two older individuals in
00:28:36
that age Spectrum now either one could
00:28:38
be president definitely will be in the
00:28:40
80s
00:28:41
what do we do as a democracy to make
00:28:43
sure that
00:28:44
there is this check and balance how does
00:28:47
that happen
00:28:49
when there could be people that are sort
00:28:51
of in the shadows
00:28:52
directing things
00:28:54
of an 85 year old that is less
00:28:56
probabilistically likely of a 55 year
00:28:59
old let's say
00:29:01
well the answer to that is active
00:29:03
democracy I don't want to embarrass the
00:29:04
audience but how many people here have
00:29:07
knocked on more than 500 doors on a
00:29:11
political campaign
00:29:13
how many people here have hosted events
00:29:17
for candidates how many people here have
00:29:19
uh had encouraged friends to run for
00:29:23
office you know I I just think that a
00:29:25
large part of the group of Americans who
00:29:27
are upset or dissatisfied or are not
00:29:31
engaged in the political process and you
00:29:33
know that to be Plato said the price of
00:29:36
not being engaged in politics it will be
00:29:38
ruled by worse people
00:29:39
and so the the reality is that if you
00:29:43
want to have younger people engaged if
00:29:46
you want to have new voices you've got
00:29:48
to realize there's a huge power
00:29:49
establishment and we've got to get
00:29:51
active and be much more involved and
00:29:54
then be strategic the amount of people
00:29:56
it's mind-boggling to me you have like
00:29:58
the most brilliant Business Leaders who
00:30:00
will obsess about every part of a
00:30:02
business plan and think about like what
00:30:04
it takes to make a successful company
00:30:05
and then they'll be like oh let's just
00:30:07
run this guy for president and he's
00:30:09
going to connect what about the
00:30:11
infrastructure in Iowa and New Hampshire
00:30:13
and what it takes to win there's no
00:30:15
business plan like that you it being in
00:30:17
politics to lead the Free World is the
00:30:20
hardest possible job to get in the world
00:30:23
it requires requiring a winning
00:30:25
presidential campaign is no joke and I
00:30:28
think people have to take it seriously
00:30:30
political activism if they want change
00:30:33
bro let me um
00:30:34
let me just flip the conversation from
00:30:37
external politics to the internal
00:30:39
administration of our federal government
00:30:41
we heard
00:30:43
um from Graham Allison about the
00:30:44
challenges of the Department of Defense
00:30:47
um what's your view and what's the
00:30:49
conversation on the ground about
00:30:51
accountability Department of Defense and
00:30:53
elsewhere in the federal government
00:30:55
what are the the measures that you think
00:30:58
we should be taking and prioritizing to
00:31:00
addressing these these concerns I always
00:31:02
reference the Jon Stewart interview with
00:31:04
the under Secretary of the defense for
00:31:06
comptroller or whatever her title was
00:31:08
and kind of says you couldn't pass it on
00:31:10
it it's like hundreds of billions of
00:31:12
dollars M.I.A and meanwhile you know we
00:31:15
are ill-equipped for the conflicts ahead
00:31:18
potentially and the threatened conflict
00:31:20
ahead what's the solution and what's the
00:31:22
the conversation on the ground in DC on
00:31:24
on this matter and is it a priority for
00:31:26
folks
00:31:27
it's not a priority it should be a
00:31:29
priority everyone will watch 60 minutes
00:31:30
should know it's a priority I was the
00:31:32
only person in the entire armed services
00:31:33
committee 56-1 to vote no against the
00:31:36
defense budget going to a trillion
00:31:37
dollars not because I don't believe in a
00:31:40
strong defense but because we are paying
00:31:43
three hundred or ten thousand dollars
00:31:45
for an oil pressure switch that NASA is
00:31:47
paying 328 dollars for it I didn't
00:31:50
realize I was giving you such a size
00:31:52
you know where Raytheon in The Patriot
00:31:56
defense missile is making 40 profits 50
00:31:59
profits that they admit you have a
00:32:02
situation 300 to 400 billion dollars a
00:32:04
defense contractor and no one is holding
00:32:06
him accountable because they're giving
00:32:07
money to to to to to people's campaigns
00:32:11
and no one wants to be seen as weak on
00:32:13
defense well look Harry Truman became
00:32:15
president of the United States just by
00:32:17
holding defense accountable in World War
00:32:19
II this should be a bipartisan issue and
00:32:22
we should hold it the defense department
00:32:24
accountable to actually having real
00:32:26
defense for the prime percentage
00:32:30
now do social security and Medicare
00:32:33
you'll disagree with my plan on Social
00:32:36
Security but my view is that you
00:32:38
shouldn't scrap the payroll tax cap and
00:32:40
that would make Social Security solvent
00:32:42
but if you it but here is where what
00:32:44
I'll what I'll end with the the
00:32:48
um look I I think that there there is
00:32:50
two things that have divided this
00:32:52
country deeply
00:32:54
one is the hollowing out in the working
00:32:56
class middle class across this country
00:32:58
and what we need to do to have a common
00:33:00
mission to rebuild it and the other
00:33:01
thing is kind of a a moral smugness a
00:33:04
sense that we know uh and have the
00:33:07
Monopoly on the truth the amount of
00:33:09
criticism that I have gotten for like
00:33:11
going on Fox news or even coming to the
00:33:14
all-in podcast I mean look try and
00:33:16
finding some of my Democratic colleagues
00:33:18
it is staggering we have
00:33:24
we've got to have more humility to have
00:33:26
conversations we've got to have those
00:33:28
conversations with empathy not just
00:33:30
judgment and think about where other
00:33:31
people are coming from and their stories
00:33:33
and we've got to figure out how we're
00:33:35
going to bring this country together
00:33:36
thanks well done
00:33:42
we really appreciate it
00:33:43
great job thank you
00:33:48
[Music]
00:33:59
and they've just gone crazy
00:34:01
[Music]
00:34:08
besties
00:34:11
[Music]
00:34:28
[Music]
00:34:33
we need to get Mercies
00:34:36
[Music]
00:34:43
I'm going all in
00:34:45
[Music]
