00:00:00
so saks are we gonna talk with each
00:00:01
other today or you know or he's an iso
00:00:03
player he turned into an iso player he's
00:00:05
like the carmelo anthony of this he's
00:00:07
the carmelo anthony of the all-in pod
00:00:09
sack you want to pass the ball or you
00:00:10
just want to you want to clank it off
00:00:12
the room raymond clay i mean we should
00:00:14
have a focus on having a dialogue with
00:00:16
each other today several points in the
00:00:17
thing as opposed to all standing up
00:00:19
saying our piece and then hopping we
00:00:20
lost a little bit of the fiber of this
00:00:22
team here there's three people playing
00:00:23
as a team and then they're sacks i would
00:00:25
love to ask you questions and i would
00:00:26
love to see my job the ball jay cal
00:00:29
you're the guard you pass the ball i'm
00:00:30
supposed to score oh really remember
00:00:32
what uh shaq used to say when he wasn't
00:00:35
getting the ball he gets really unhappy
00:00:37
he said pass the ball to the big dog
00:00:38
he'll score
00:00:39
yeah i'm shaq
00:00:41
you know you're not kobe who is the
00:00:42
shitty
00:00:45
yeah you're derek fisher make sure that
00:00:47
big dog gets the ball there won't be any
00:00:48
problems i'm bob cousy okay i'm gary
00:00:50
payton in this
00:00:52
okay
00:00:55
[Music]
00:01:05
[Music]
00:01:09
hey everybody welcome to the all in
00:01:11
podcast where three besties talk about a
00:01:14
range of talking topics and one
00:01:17
monologues about biden derangement
00:01:19
syndrome with you again this week the
00:01:21
sultan of science
00:01:23
and the dictator
00:01:24
parliamentaria
00:01:27
and playing iso ball somewhere in the
00:01:29
wing
00:01:30
is uh your political commentator
00:01:33
junior
00:01:34
projection david sacks it's an act of
00:01:37
projection
00:01:39
which sacks is gonna lose his mind over
00:01:41
he's got two monologues prepared
00:01:43
justin trudeau has invoked an emergency
00:01:46
order to freeze bank accounts linked to
00:01:49
trucker protests in canada on monday
00:01:52
trudeau invoked an emergency law that
00:01:54
requires financial institutions in
00:01:55
canada to examine
00:01:57
customer records and take action against
00:01:59
people involved with or aiding in the
00:02:01
protest here's trudeau's tweet from
00:02:04
yesterday if you're watching on the
00:02:05
video streams illegal blockades and
00:02:08
occupations are not peaceful protests
00:02:10
they're a threat to jobs and communities
00:02:12
and they cannot continue in the house of
00:02:13
commons earlier today i joined members
00:02:15
of the parliament to speak about that
00:02:17
and about the need to invoke the
00:02:20
emergencies act the counter signal which
00:02:22
is a right-leaning canadian digital
00:02:23
publication reported that 34 different
00:02:25
crypto wallets were also being targeted
00:02:28
by canadian officials
00:02:31
this law grants the government
00:02:33
extraordinary powers like the right to
00:02:35
ban public assembly in certain locations
00:02:37
the canadian civil liberties association
00:02:39
said it planned to challenge the
00:02:40
government's decision in
00:02:41
court uh remember
00:02:43
sax wrote a piece
00:02:45
on financial d platforming for barrio
00:02:48
ice's common sense about a year ago the
00:02:50
piece was about the private sector
00:02:51
financial platforms de-platforming folks
00:02:54
uh so your thoughts sacks you have 90
00:02:57
seconds on the uninterrupted clock
00:03:00
on the shot clock all right thank you
00:03:01
jay kelly it's true last summer i wrote
00:03:03
a piece for barry weiss's sub stack
00:03:07
talking about how financial d platform
00:03:09
would be the next wave of online
00:03:10
censorship and here we are it's actually
00:03:13
happened what i could not have predicted
00:03:15
is that it would occur
00:03:16
in our mild mannered neighbor to the
00:03:19
north and that the reprisals would be
00:03:21
directed by the government itself not
00:03:24
just a consortium of private actors and
00:03:27
what
00:03:28
trudeau has done is he didn't just
00:03:30
employ the emergency act against the
00:03:32
trucker so that he could basically
00:03:34
arrest them and break up the protest
00:03:36
they have now directed banks
00:03:39
and any financial institution even
00:03:41
cryptocurrency wallets to freeze the
00:03:44
accounts not just to the truckers but
00:03:46
anybody who's contributed to them
00:03:47
basically anyone's contributed 25 or
00:03:49
more um there were two uh crowdfunding
00:03:52
sites that they raised money from all
00:03:54
those people the thousands of
00:03:56
disordinary canadians who did nothing
00:03:58
more than contribute to an
00:04:00
anti-government protest they are now at
00:04:02
risk of financial rune because their
00:04:04
bank accounts have been frozen
00:04:06
and you have to wonder what what is the
00:04:09
ends here that justifies the means
00:04:11
covid you know omicron is on the lane
00:04:14
it's on its way out at the same time
00:04:16
that trudeau was announcing these
00:04:18
dictatorial measures
00:04:19
uh ford the the guy who runs uh ontario
00:04:23
the largest province 15 seconds
00:04:25
ford was out there saying that he was
00:04:27
gonna uh that coveted mandates were
00:04:29
gonna be over so why exactly are they
00:04:31
doing this
00:04:33
you know we're at the end of covet and
00:04:35
um zach let me ask you a question if um
00:04:38
if there were people online making
00:04:40
donations to the criminals who loot
00:04:43
and kill people in san francisco which
00:04:45
you've railed against being criminals
00:04:47
who are breaking the law and should all
00:04:49
be put behind bars do you think that it
00:04:51
would be appropriate in that context for
00:04:52
the government to block their donations
00:04:55
to supporting criminal activity in a
00:04:57
criminal ring
00:04:58
um you know that i think we all agree
00:05:00
uh you know shouldn't be transpiring
00:05:03
well but but your the implication there
00:05:05
is that truckers are using violence or
00:05:08
or something like that and they're not i
00:05:09
mean it's been it's been largely a
00:05:10
peaceful protest it's been very annoying
00:05:13
to people who you know but isn't the
00:05:15
case being made that they are actually
00:05:17
breaking the law by blocking streets and
00:05:18
that's not you know there's a peaceful
00:05:20
protest where you can go and get a
00:05:21
permit and actually go in a public zone
00:05:23
and peacefully protest within the con
00:05:25
the confines of the law and what's
00:05:27
allowed in that jurisdiction look but
00:05:28
what these folks are doing is civil
00:05:30
disobedience which is not a peaceful
00:05:32
protest it is you know kind of breaking
00:05:34
the law to make a point it is peaceful
00:05:37
because there's been no violence if you
00:05:38
look at actually but they're breaking
00:05:40
those they're breaking the law right
00:05:41
well let me let me ask the question for
00:05:43
freeberg then um
00:05:44
sex
00:05:45
if
00:05:46
a group of truckers were shutting down
00:05:49
the bay bridge with three lanes of
00:05:51
traffic and then shut down the 280 and
00:05:53
the 101 and it impacted this if they in
00:05:56
fact are shutting down roads
00:05:59
emergency businesses and our emergencies
00:06:01
can't get through would you want them to
00:06:03
be towed would you want their cars to be
00:06:05
towed listen here here's the thing the
00:06:07
ambassador bridge this vital choke point
00:06:10
of commerce between the u.s and canada
00:06:11
that was blocked and that was creating a
00:06:13
serious problem but it had already been
00:06:15
cleared on monday by the time that
00:06:17
trudeau invoked the emergencies act and
00:06:19
then on tuesday he then invokes this
00:06:22
financial act your opinion sacks if they
00:06:24
if they block roads and bridges
00:06:26
would you if they're in charge yeah if
00:06:29
they're breaking the law in that way
00:06:30
it's not just one lane it's all three
00:06:32
lanes damage is society i'm just trying
00:06:33
to understand the the standard here
00:06:35
because
00:06:36
just zooming out to last year and the
00:06:38
year before right there was a protest
00:06:40
happening with blm and those blm
00:06:42
protests resulted in damage to private
00:06:45
uh property uh to burning cars
00:06:48
there were protests at the capitol
00:06:50
that involved folks trespassing into
00:06:53
federal land and federal buildings and
00:06:55
now there's protests that are uh you
00:06:58
know blocking vital trade routes and you
00:07:00
know access to emergency vehicles and
00:07:02
all this sort of stuff to me and also
00:07:04
you know people in san francisco
00:07:06
breaking the law and not being put in
00:07:07
jail my personal opinion is anyone
00:07:09
that's breaking the law we should stop
00:07:11
them from breaking the law and anyone
00:07:13
that wants to kind of you know follow a
00:07:14
peaceful protest or make a point should
00:07:16
kind of make the point but if the law is
00:07:18
the law shouldn't there be a universal
00:07:20
standard to hold up the law and if the
00:07:21
case and if the case is people are
00:07:23
giving money to
00:07:24
aid in breaking the law shouldn't we
00:07:27
stop the hold on you know
00:07:28
transmission go
00:07:29
hold on hold on a second look i think
00:07:31
you're conflating a bunch of really
00:07:32
important things there
00:07:34
aiding and abetting criminals
00:07:37
uh is already illegal there are rico
00:07:39
statutes
00:07:40
that um allow the authorities to go
00:07:43
after people that are aiding and
00:07:44
abetting
00:07:46
through monetary support
00:07:48
criminal behavior
00:07:50
separately there is a whole body of law
00:07:52
at the federal state local level
00:07:54
that allows you to deal with protests
00:07:56
okay the real question is why did you
00:07:59
have to go and invoke emergency powers
00:08:02
at the tail end of a pandemic for what
00:08:04
is effectively
00:08:06
non-violent protests again that's the
00:08:09
key question right so just to give you
00:08:11
some canadian history
00:08:12
uh as a canadian citizen what i can tell
00:08:15
you is that we've invoked this emergency
00:08:17
powers act three times in the past
00:08:19
the first was for world war ii
00:08:22
the second sorry world war one the
00:08:24
second was for world war ii and the
00:08:26
third was the flq crisis which was a
00:08:27
domestic terrorist organization in
00:08:29
quebec
00:08:30
that was fighting for a separate
00:08:31
homeland
00:08:33
that's those are the three other times
00:08:34
in the past that a sitting prime
00:08:35
minister has invoked these broad
00:08:38
sweeping emergency powers and they did
00:08:40
it because you exhaust the natural body
00:08:43
of law and the constitution and the bill
00:08:44
of you know the charter of rights that
00:08:46
governs
00:08:47
the normal behavior of a democratic
00:08:49
society
00:08:50
what this was is not any of those things
00:08:52
i don't think anybody could claim that a
00:08:54
bunch of non-violent protests yes they
00:08:56
were annoying yes they basically you
00:08:59
know stop some commerce but i don't
00:09:01
think it was on the order of world war
00:09:03
one world war ii or a domestic terrorism
00:09:05
issue like the flq crisis so why invoke
00:09:09
this basically get out of jail free card
00:09:11
where you can behave without any checks
00:09:12
and balance this is the confounding hold
00:09:14
on a second did we exhaust
00:09:17
the current body of normal governing law
00:09:21
and if we didn't why is this example
00:09:24
okay
00:09:24
and the counterfactuals are so many
00:09:27
imagine trump invoked this thing during
00:09:29
blm
00:09:31
imagine biden did this right now right
00:09:33
you would be up in arms i think that's
00:09:36
well said let me just add something to
00:09:37
that the emergencies act that trudeau
00:09:39
invoked requires something like an act
00:09:42
of espionage against the country or
00:09:45
syria the word serious violence or in
00:09:47
the law or the threat of serious
00:09:49
violence those conditions were simply
00:09:51
not met
00:09:53
yeah and then on top of that to go after
00:09:56
people who contribute as little as 25 to
00:09:58
these truckers who are trying to support
00:10:00
them because these guys are not making
00:10:01
any money you know there could they have
00:10:03
very they're living under very harsh
00:10:05
conditions so you make a small check you
00:10:08
write a small donation to support these
00:10:10
people to aid them they're simple
00:10:11
working-class people who are protesting
00:10:14
for normalcy and get their freedom back
00:10:16
and now all of a sudden your bank
00:10:17
account gets frozen
00:10:19
it is basically creating
00:10:21
a it's gonna have a chilling effect
00:10:23
because it's essentially creating a cast
00:10:25
of untouchables because no one is going
00:10:27
to want to associate with transact with
00:10:29
or donate to this group of people these
00:10:32
designated people now under the
00:10:34
emergencies act who your bank account
00:10:36
can get frozen if you deal with that i
00:10:38
think it's going to have the opposite
00:10:39
effect i think this is going to blow up
00:10:40
in trudeau's face this is the worst
00:10:42
decision making by any major political
00:10:44
leader in a long time to go after a
00:10:46
group of people as champa said in the in
00:10:48
the waning days of a pandemic what is
00:10:51
the point why are we picking this or why
00:10:53
is he picking this guy up so why makes
00:10:55
no sense but why is he doing it and
00:10:57
jamal why why did the police not break
00:11:00
so i totally hear your point why did the
00:11:02
police not break up these protests why
00:11:04
did he need to invoke the emergency
00:11:06
because look it happened
00:11:08
i think that the police in some cases
00:11:10
did in some cases didn't there were
00:11:12
probably a lot of police sympathizers
00:11:15
there were probably a lot of
00:11:16
sympathizers in general as there were a
00:11:18
lot of people who were detractors oh you
00:11:20
think the police you're saying there
00:11:21
were police that were complicit it's the
00:11:23
nature of a protest you have people for
00:11:25
you have people against but the point is
00:11:28
i think what's really clear is
00:11:30
justin trudeau
00:11:32
first basically said these people are
00:11:35
racists and misogynists
00:11:37
then he said they just hold views that
00:11:39
are just unacceptable to me
00:11:41
and then like a totalitarian dictator
00:11:43
invoked an emergency measures act that
00:11:45
allows him to do what he wants
00:11:48
that's the fact pattern he painted
00:11:49
himself into a political corner and then
00:11:52
tried to give successfully he gave
00:11:54
himself absolute power for some period
00:11:56
of time
00:11:56
and the real question i think is why
00:11:58
should this be allowed to happen in a
00:12:00
democratic country with democratic norms
00:12:03
against people that haven't done as far
00:12:05
as i can tell
00:12:06
a shred of violent behavior
00:12:08
no it hasn't been you guys and where
00:12:10
it's clear
00:12:11
that the body of normal governing law
00:12:14
hasn't been exhausted yet meaning
00:12:16
the minute that these people were asked
00:12:19
to actually empty the ambassador bridge
00:12:22
they did guys we're canadians that's
00:12:24
what we do yes we love to pronounce but
00:12:26
if you just ask us super nice exactly no
00:12:29
you're right trudeau never tried talking
00:12:30
to them i mean why wouldn't he just try
00:12:32
and talk why wouldn't he just try and
00:12:33
negotiate with them instead he demonized
00:12:36
them right all that bad as white
00:12:37
supremacists and nazis and even
00:12:40
you know confederates or which i don't
00:12:42
even understand in the context of canada
00:12:43
this is yet another example of the dying
00:12:46
death right in front of us of the woke
00:12:49
playbook right we talked about this last
00:12:51
week
00:12:52
i think it's related to the san
00:12:53
francisco board of ed recall that's now
00:12:56
national and probably even international
00:12:57
news
00:12:59
the the the reaction to rogan the
00:13:02
reaction to dave chappelle it's all part
00:13:04
and parcel of this thing where people up
00:13:06
and down the spectrum
00:13:08
have learned what the mechanism of
00:13:10
action is of this cancer culture and
00:13:12
they don't fall for it anymore
00:13:16
there's a person that's able to escalate
00:13:17
it because he's actually in a seat of
00:13:19
power and that's what i think people
00:13:21
should be debating you mean shutting
00:13:22
down dissenting voices from a position
00:13:24
of power just because and he went
00:13:26
unnecessarily he went on the record and
00:13:28
he said
00:13:29
guys these views are unacceptable to me
00:13:31
well in a democratic society that's not
00:13:33
your choice
00:13:34
yeah not your choice justin i mean and i
00:13:36
could have engaged with views on all
00:13:38
kinds of topics all the time
00:13:40
unacceptable
00:13:41
is not the threshold of world war ii
00:13:43
world war one in the flq crisis do you
00:13:45
guys think that there's a moment here
00:13:47
that also is a mile marker on the road
00:13:50
towards the state versus crypto given
00:13:53
the actions that we're taking against
00:13:54
bitcoin wallets because that seems to be
00:13:56
like a big trend that's going to play
00:13:57
out over the next decade or two
00:13:59
they're there inevitably crypto is the
00:14:01
threat to the state right and so you
00:14:04
know you're going to see skirmishes like
00:14:05
this that kind of you know hey
00:14:07
wallets that donate are illegal and you
00:14:10
know free break this is one of the best
00:14:12
points you've made if you look at what
00:14:13
this has done to bitcoin and you look at
00:14:15
what it's done for other
00:14:16
cryptocurrencies this will do more than
00:14:18
mcdonald's accepting bitcoin because
00:14:20
this is the first time like a western
00:14:22
democratic state is seizing people's
00:14:24
funds like in an incredibly unfair
00:14:26
unnecessary way which is just going to
00:14:28
have more people say you know what maybe
00:14:30
i should keep some of my net worth out
00:14:31
of
00:14:32
the government's purview if they're
00:14:34
going to seize it anyway and then now
00:14:35
people are going to start looking into
00:14:36
the coins that allow people to can't
00:14:39
conflate having an enemy with having a
00:14:41
different view
00:14:43
these aren't the same thing having an
00:14:45
enemy is a serious deal right whether
00:14:47
that's domestic or international
00:14:50
that's what we had to do in world war
00:14:52
one world war ii in the flq crisis this
00:14:54
is just somebody who has a different
00:14:55
opinion i don't agree in mass mandates
00:14:57
is what one person says i want a mass
00:14:59
mandate is what the other person says
00:15:01
the idea that you can deplatform one or
00:15:04
the other or fire them from their job or
00:15:06
prevent them from having access to the
00:15:08
money that they've earned or preventing
00:15:10
other people from donating money
00:15:12
that's really um it's a really low bar
00:15:14
and i think when you normalize this kind
00:15:16
of behavior it's a very slippery slope
00:15:19
and so if if somebody else were to do it
00:15:21
they now have like it's again going back
00:15:24
to the rene gerard sort of philosophical
00:15:26
discussion from last week
00:15:28
one of the things uh about you know
00:15:30
these stoning rituals right that sacks
00:15:32
talked about
00:15:34
that we talked about last week one of
00:15:35
the things that rene gerard talks about
00:15:36
is it is always
00:15:38
hardest for that first person
00:15:42
right
00:15:43
the first person that throws the stone
00:15:45
right that's how jesus was able to
00:15:46
defuse that
00:15:47
that incident as described in the book
00:15:49
of john but in a different example the
00:15:51
first person that throws a stone all of
00:15:53
a sudden normalizes it for everybody
00:15:55
else after them and then these stonings
00:15:56
become commonplace or became commonplace
00:15:59
so similarly it's like if you're a
00:16:01
sitting democratic person who just
00:16:02
decides this doesn't work for you
00:16:04
you can't flip the script
00:16:07
and and basically remove everybody's
00:16:09
democratic rights that's really
00:16:12
crazy it's actually at a closing point
00:16:13
you want to make
00:16:14
well okay just on this point about
00:16:16
bitcoin the the reason why bitcoin is
00:16:19
necessary is because the tactics that
00:16:20
trudeau is using is essentially to
00:16:22
starve these truckers out to not only
00:16:25
basically arrest them and but he's also
00:16:27
taking away their insurance licenses
00:16:29
he's basically preventing them from ever
00:16:31
working again he's talked about that
00:16:33
we're gonna put give you a criminal
00:16:34
record it's gonna make it hard for you
00:16:35
to get a job and then most importantly
00:16:37
on top of that
00:16:38
he's preventing anyone from helping them
00:16:40
by contributing to them by making a
00:16:42
donation so he's essentially starving
00:16:44
these guys out and that's the reason why
00:16:46
bitcoin is potentially helpful is it
00:16:48
allows people using non-custodial
00:16:51
wallets to make an unrun around that and
00:16:53
donate and help these these people who
00:16:55
are being persecuted essentially i mean
00:16:58
he could have just simply chosen to do
00:17:00
what sax's favorite president obama did
00:17:03
with occupy wall street which is say
00:17:05
great you have something you want to
00:17:06
voice here's where you can do it just
00:17:09
you know no guns no violence but we let
00:17:11
how long did occupy wall street last in
00:17:14
downtown wall street and in oakland and
00:17:15
other places like a year or two and you
00:17:18
just wait them out and that's it i think
00:17:19
when you encounter a sincere protest
00:17:21
movement the first thing you should do
00:17:22
as leaders actually listen and try to
00:17:24
understand what it is that they're
00:17:26
protesting on behalf of and trudeau
00:17:28
never did that he went straight to 11
00:17:30
with this and i think part of the reason
00:17:32
why i mean jk you asked why why is it
00:17:35
that that you know
00:17:37
there seems to be a common denominator
00:17:38
with this and with the ukraine issue
00:17:40
that the leaders are immediately
00:17:42
escalating these situations instead of
00:17:44
looking for a way to de-escalate it and
00:17:46
they're doing it with the media egging
00:17:48
them on and so as as harsh as trudeau's
00:17:51
rhetoric has been the media's rhetoric
00:17:53
around this has been even worse you have
00:17:55
this cnn contributor juliette kyam who's
00:17:58
also a harvard professor who basically
00:18:00
tweeted that
00:18:02
trudeau
00:18:03
needed to slash their tires empty the
00:18:05
gas tanks arrest the drivers you know
00:18:08
making it unclear how you'd never get
00:18:09
the trucks off the bridge uh but then
00:18:11
she said cancel their insurance suspend
00:18:12
their driver's license prohibit any
00:18:14
future regulatory verification
00:18:16
uh she says trust me i will not run out
00:18:19
of ways to make this hurt
00:18:20
you know it's you have the media
00:18:23
cheering this on egging on trudeau
00:18:25
they're doing the same thing beating the
00:18:27
drums of war on ukraine what is wrong
00:18:29
with these people
00:18:30
yeah de-escalate and where's the
00:18:32
off-ramp i think the biggest the biggest
00:18:34
story is this um
00:18:36
this bitcoin thing because
00:18:38
you know if you guys think about like
00:18:40
pre-1960s like capital
00:18:43
wasn't digitized it was like physical
00:18:45
like you had to own like a stock
00:18:46
certificate or cash or gold or a bearer
00:18:49
bond
00:18:51
to today everything is digitized right
00:18:53
like there's a digital record of you
00:18:54
know who owns what stock and who how
00:18:56
much is in your bank account and none of
00:18:58
it is tied to your having a physical
00:19:00
asset
00:19:01
and
00:19:01
ultimately the law was able to reach
00:19:03
into these digital systems and have
00:19:05
greater um
00:19:06
uh oversight and ultimately control uh
00:19:10
you know over accounts and so on and
00:19:11
it's had a you know the digitization of
00:19:13
capital assets has had an incredible
00:19:15
ability to drive economic growth and
00:19:17
investment and ease of transaction but
00:19:19
it's also significantly increased the
00:19:21
centralization of assets or the central
00:19:24
influence over assets
00:19:26
bitcoin seems to be the resolution to
00:19:28
that and now you're seeing the ultimate
00:19:31
challenge to bitcoin and the challenge
00:19:33
to decentralized systems like bitcoin
00:19:35
and cryptocurrencies and so on i don't
00:19:36
want to speak specifically to anyone but
00:19:39
there seems to be like this trend line
00:19:40
over the last 60 years that's now being
00:19:42
challenged because you could have your
00:19:45
accounts frozen any moment um you know
00:19:47
for breaking the law or because
00:19:48
emergency acts are are induced and i
00:19:51
think you're right it's probably going
00:19:52
to accelerate interest in these kind of
00:19:54
off government chain if true into some
00:19:57
separate chain anyone can do it anybody
00:20:00
can do it they're doing it in china
00:20:01
right and they're uh
00:20:04
it's the point of it the digital
00:20:05
argument is like this incredible the
00:20:07
whole point it's like absolute
00:20:09
centralization of every capital asset
00:20:11
here's where you go
00:20:12
think of how dangerous the digital yuan
00:20:14
is the minute you say something that xi
00:20:15
jinping doesn't like it's a it's a
00:20:17
stroke of a keyboard key and all your
00:20:19
assets are all your assets are locked
00:20:21
away it's a database entry and you just
00:20:23
basically reroute who belong who it
00:20:25
belongs to or it could be it could
00:20:26
happen in america they say you know what
00:20:28
california now wants to have a wealth
00:20:29
tax anybody who's got money we're just
00:20:31
going to take your money out you guys
00:20:33
think automatically do you guys think we
00:20:34
sound like a right-wing politics show at
00:20:36
this point
00:20:37
no this isn't a right-wing politics
00:20:39
thing i mean i think i think that we
00:20:41
have so jumped the shark there are
00:20:42
things that are happening today every
00:20:44
day
00:20:44
that you know if you had said in
00:20:46
isolation two or three years ago would
00:20:48
any of these things ever happen we all
00:20:50
would have just looked at each other and
00:20:51
said it's impossible that these things
00:20:53
could happen but the problem is fast
00:20:55
forward two years of a pandemic i think
00:20:58
we have let a lot of our civil liberties
00:20:59
decay right under our nose and we're not
00:21:02
willing to fight for it because it's
00:21:04
become too tribal and and rights have
00:21:06
been politicized so the idea of having
00:21:08
rights
00:21:10
you know and then standing up for your
00:21:11
rights all of a sudden has to be a
00:21:13
decision between whether you're left or
00:21:14
right
00:21:15
that's crazy i don't think that
00:21:17
liberties in the sense of government
00:21:19
oversight have decayed as uh
00:21:21
in addition to that
00:21:23
liberties in the sense of of a social
00:21:26
setting have decayed you know we've
00:21:27
because of cancer culture we've
00:21:29
normalized the ability
00:21:31
to silence minority or dissenting voices
00:21:34
and this is both in the private
00:21:36
enterprise setting as well as in the
00:21:37
public setting
00:21:39
and it's um you know
00:21:41
i don't know i i don't consider myself a
00:21:43
right-wing conservative person by any
00:21:45
stretch
00:21:46
um but i do consider myself a person who
00:21:48
believes in individual freedom and
00:21:49
liberty that's called an american by the
00:21:51
way yeah it's basically being an
00:21:53
american and i think you know as we move
00:21:55
on to this uh recall in san francisco i
00:21:57
think
00:21:58
sax made a really good point like what
00:22:00
are our political leaders doing here are
00:22:02
they trying to stir the pot and
00:22:03
antagonize these situations if you look
00:22:05
you know clinton
00:22:07
obama a lot of people previously were
00:22:09
trying to defuse these situations and
00:22:10
then
00:22:11
biden seems to be stirring the pot
00:22:13
justin trudeau and then if you look at
00:22:15
trump with blm you know and the
00:22:17
immigration stuff he never sat down and
00:22:19
met with him and he arguably antagonized
00:22:21
them so
00:22:22
i think this is a perfect segue into
00:22:24
what happened
00:22:26
and you know so we should expect a
00:22:28
little more from our political leaders
00:22:29
great point from sacks you just bought
00:22:30
up something incredible you know trump
00:22:32
railed against these blm folks but at no
00:22:35
point did he try to shut down their bank
00:22:36
accounts and take their money away and
00:22:38
trudeau can't you know did this was not
00:22:41
even near in the scale of blm yeah who's
00:22:43
the bigger authoritarian yeah i mean
00:22:45
clearly if you objectively it's true in
00:22:47
this situation the scary
00:22:48
authoritarianism as we talked about in
00:22:50
previous pods tends to come from the
00:22:51
left
00:22:52
at least the right you see it coming
00:22:55
it's failed under moral virtue signaling
00:22:57
that's right they're very sanctimonious
00:22:59
they claim they claim to be the
00:23:00
defenders of the working class
00:23:03
while they're actually prosecuting them
00:23:06
such an unforced error like
00:23:08
so dumb he's going to lose right now
00:23:10
he's going to lose if a d.a was elected
00:23:12
and a police officer police chief were
00:23:14
elected to san francisco that said we
00:23:16
are going to freeze the bank accounts
00:23:18
and
00:23:19
um you know uh
00:23:21
demobilize the criminals that are
00:23:23
ransacking our city our people
00:23:25
our stores would you support that
00:23:28
no not if it's an
00:23:30
office an extrajudicial use of power i
00:23:32
mean the law specifies what you're
00:23:34
allowed to do do you think san
00:23:35
francisco's in an emergency situation i
00:23:37
mean would you support the mayor taking
00:23:38
on emergency uh authority to go and fix
00:23:41
the problem which she just did by the
00:23:42
way in the tenderloin yeah but that
00:23:44
doesn't give her the power to go to
00:23:46
wells fargo and say to wells fargo we
00:23:48
want you to freeze all these accounts
00:23:50
with no due process of law
00:23:52
that's basically what trudeau is about
00:23:54
that's the overreach that's the line you
00:23:56
think is like go and see that you should
00:23:58
have to go through a court proceeding
00:23:59
just to free someone's bank account
00:24:01
period
00:24:02
can't just freeze someone's man count
00:24:04
the law allows you to do this now it's
00:24:06
called rico so you follow the due
00:24:08
process of the law and you can do all
00:24:10
those things friedrich that that you
00:24:12
just mentioned if you want to free
00:24:13
somebody's bank account right you can
00:24:15
actually do that the government has the
00:24:17
ability to do that they don't need to
00:24:18
pass this basically get out of jail free
00:24:21
card to do whatever you want without any
00:24:23
oversight and teacher matt's point
00:24:25
earlier have you exhausted the regular
00:24:27
law here
00:24:30
i haven't
00:24:37
all the provinces are ending covet
00:24:38
mandates anyway so this whole issue is
00:24:40
moot
00:24:41
so dumb it's this is like the stupidest
00:24:43
behavior at the end of a pandemic that
00:24:45
we've ever seen and shout out to george
00:24:47
lucas for getting it right i mean if you
00:24:48
look at the theme of star wars it was
00:24:51
like oh i just need emergency powers for
00:24:53
a minute because of a trade federation
00:24:55
blockade and here we go
00:24:57
a fake crisis yeah that wasn't george
00:24:59
lucas by the way i mean that goes back
00:25:00
to the uh the
00:25:02
roman empire
00:25:04
right like yeah yeah that was the
00:25:05
formation of the empire caesar caesar
00:25:07
got emergency authority i mean this is a
00:25:09
tried and true and the poll the polls
00:25:11
are actually right and the polls show
00:25:12
that the most of the public in canada is
00:25:14
applauding
00:25:16
so what was the line from democracy dice
00:25:18
to applause exactly
00:25:20
that was padme's line in the star wars
00:25:22
films all right uh they're aging well
00:25:24
the prequels uh three members of san
00:25:25
francisco's board of education they were
00:25:27
the worst just to be clear but go on
00:25:29
sorry uh
00:25:30
not compared to the three just huge
00:25:32
dumps that disney took on the our
00:25:34
childhoods with the sequels three
00:25:37
members of the san francisco board of
00:25:38
education were called this week
00:25:40
massively they lost by between 72 and 79
00:25:47
these were the virtual signaling maniacs
00:25:49
who wanted to change the names of all
00:25:51
the schools wouldn't reopen the schools
00:25:53
yadda yadda and this uh really
00:25:56
frustrated and they wanted to get rid of
00:25:58
elite ap classes
00:26:00
all of this they did jason they did they
00:26:02
did yeah um and
00:26:04
these three board members are out so
00:26:06
london breed
00:26:08
jason jason just to be clear in the
00:26:09
middle of a pandemic i think my
00:26:10
understanding is that instead of
00:26:12
figuring out how to get these kids back
00:26:14
in class how to figure out how they
00:26:16
could take off their masks
00:26:18
they wanted to drop abraham lincoln and
00:26:20
george washington's name from schools
00:26:22
because it was it was too regressive yep
00:26:24
they cancelled the gifted program
00:26:26
because it made other kids feel bad
00:26:29
and a gentleman that wanted to serve on
00:26:30
a committee
00:26:32
who i think was gay but not minority was
00:26:35
excluded because
00:26:36
he wasn't a minority
00:26:39
enough for them
00:26:41
so these are the three people that uh 76
00:26:44
of san francisco citizens or you know
00:26:46
residents just uh recalled and if you're
00:26:49
not following this the tech industry had
00:26:51
a major part in this in terms of backing
00:26:53
it there was a lot of claims which i'll
00:26:55
let sachs address in a moment uh that
00:26:57
this was a republican-driven
00:26:58
out-of-state movement but if you look
00:27:02
there are not a hundred thousand
00:27:03
republicans in san francisco and all
00:27:05
likelihood
00:27:06
this was actually apparent in a lot of
00:27:09
cases based on the geography of san
00:27:11
francisco and the density of certain
00:27:13
populations a lot of asian americans
00:27:15
came out in force and some neighborhoods
00:27:17
90 percent were voting to oust these
00:27:19
people uh gary tan uh who is a product
00:27:22
of the san francisco public education
00:27:24
system and a great entrepreneur and
00:27:26
venture capitalist uh was a leader in
00:27:28
this movement so congratulations to him
00:27:30
and this all is going to culminate i
00:27:31
think in may or june sucks will correct
00:27:33
me with the recall effort for
00:27:36
uh chesa boudin uh this killer d.a who
00:27:39
won't prosecute anybody sex what are
00:27:41
your thoughts on this victory and full
00:27:42
disclosure you were a major donor to
00:27:44
this i was the second largest donor and
00:27:45
i was the largest donor under age 90.
00:27:48
arthur rock was the biggest donor what a
00:27:49
badass by the way the guy is 95 years
00:27:51
old he donated to 400 000 to this uh
00:27:54
recall
00:27:55
um
00:27:56
in fairness you live in san francisco
00:27:58
this is a backdoor issue for you you
00:27:59
care oh yeah yeah look i think crime in
00:28:02
schools are the key quality of life
00:28:04
issues in any community and it
00:28:06
transcends partisan boundaries if your
00:28:08
kids cannot get a quality education and
00:28:11
you cannot be safe in your community
00:28:13
nothing else matters and that matters to
00:28:14
democrats just as much as republicans
00:28:17
and that's why like you said three
00:28:19
quarters of san francisco voted for this
00:28:20
recall even though 85 of them voted for
00:28:22
biden's not it's basically a 90 democrat
00:28:25
city so
00:28:26
uh you know all these claims that was a
00:28:28
republican recall turned out to be
00:28:30
nonsense this was something that was
00:28:31
broadly supported
00:28:32
and um and you know look it's the same
00:28:35
reason that yunkan flipped
00:28:37
a you know plus 10 democrat state in
00:28:40
virginia
00:28:41
which is that you know it had a lot to
00:28:44
do with school closures they kept the
00:28:45
schools closed for
00:28:47
a year and a half
00:28:48
uh and then when they were supposed to
00:28:49
have conversat a pta meeting about
00:28:52
reopening it like jamas said they spent
00:28:54
five hours debating whether to allow
00:28:56
this beloved gay parent on to a
00:28:59
voluntary school board they didn't they
00:29:01
spent all their time you know talking
00:29:02
about changing the names of the schools
00:29:04
instead of how to reopen them they also
00:29:06
there's chronic mismanagement i mean the
00:29:07
school is something like 125 million
00:29:09
dollars in debt despite you know being
00:29:11
in a very rich
00:29:13
city they opened for one day that's
00:29:14
right just so that they could get a
00:29:16
state uh piece of the state budget pie
00:29:19
so these kids clamored back to school
00:29:21
just so that they could technically say
00:29:23
yeah we were open and to get i think it
00:29:25
was a 12 or 13 million dollar check and
00:29:27
then they shut the schools down again
00:29:28
right and you brought a key point jason
00:29:30
which is that the asian american
00:29:31
community in san francisco has been
00:29:33
absolutely galvanized by this issue
00:29:34
because this school board also you know
00:29:37
lowell high school was one of the best
00:29:38
schools in the city and it was
00:29:39
merit-based and it had great advanced
00:29:41
math programs and this this board
00:29:43
basically got rid of all of that stuff
00:29:45
and it infuriated the asian american
00:29:47
community many of whose most prominent
00:29:50
members have basically risen out of
00:29:52
poverty because of the education they
00:29:54
got at lowell and so this war on merit
00:29:57
that's happening
00:29:58
is something that is going to you know
00:30:01
flip
00:30:02
the you know asian
00:30:03
american community i think to when i
00:30:06
when i was growing up i grew up in a
00:30:09
french ghetto of otto
00:30:12
and i was supposed to go to a local high
00:30:15
school that was just
00:30:17
plainly trash
00:30:19
and i was able to go to an equivalent of
00:30:21
lowell this a public magnet high school
00:30:24
that had
00:30:25
uh advanced classes and everything
00:30:27
a gifted program
00:30:30
and it really did change my life and so
00:30:32
i really understand what people are
00:30:34
saying which is like when you're in
00:30:36
poverty
00:30:37
the only way out is through an education
00:30:39
really you may you know get accidentally
00:30:41
lucky but the only really predictable
00:30:44
sustainable pattern here
00:30:45
is is through school and so when you
00:30:47
deprive
00:30:48
folks from being able to get a decent
00:30:50
education
00:30:51
and there's no real you know orderly
00:30:54
logic to it it's a really
00:30:55
ridiculous kind of an idea the other
00:30:58
thing is i think that this speaks very
00:30:59
powerfully
00:31:01
as sac said as a non as a bipartisan
00:31:04
issue that these democrats have to get
00:31:05
right because you know you saw this also
00:31:08
in
00:31:08
virginia where
00:31:11
democrats basically went down this one
00:31:13
tack
00:31:14
and you know the republican candidate
00:31:16
glenn younkin basically said hey listen
00:31:18
the schools are broken it completely
00:31:20
doesn't make any sense we oppose a lot
00:31:23
of what's going on the watering down and
00:31:24
the critical race theory et cetera et
00:31:26
cetera and he put it to a vote and a lot
00:31:28
of people cross the aisle there as well
00:31:30
where typically ardent democrats
00:31:32
basically voted for this republican
00:31:33
governor i think the point is that there
00:31:35
are just
00:31:37
several issues that are just so
00:31:39
transcend like they're just they
00:31:40
transcend all party lines and this is an
00:31:43
anchor issue that we have to get right
00:31:45
friedrich any thoughts on this do you
00:31:47
think this is the start of
00:31:50
maybe a turnaround for san francisco
00:31:52
because chester boone is
00:31:54
way more hated and safety is an even
00:31:57
bigger issue i think for a lot of people
00:31:58
right now in san francisco
00:32:00
and it dovetails with asian hate and the
00:32:03
number of asian people targeted in
00:32:05
crimes so he's got a i mean if these
00:32:07
people got out by 75 on average he's
00:32:09
going to be out by 95 percent is this a
00:32:11
tipping point is san francisco going to
00:32:13
make a reason i don't know i mean look i
00:32:14
think there's generally a broader
00:32:19
trend and momentum around what we
00:32:22
classify as locism which i think is a
00:32:24
little bit disparaging to the intention
00:32:26
of social justice and recognizing the
00:32:31
the primary points of social justice
00:32:33
through action and behavior um in civic
00:32:36
discourse and and government behavior
00:32:39
um and you know this like the um
00:32:42
election of several
00:32:44
das around the country uh who take a
00:32:47
different stance to prosecution of crime
00:32:49
to try and create better options for
00:32:50
rehab and and so on
00:32:53
um i think is not a movement that's
00:32:54
going to go away overnight i think
00:32:56
there's certainly a
00:32:58
hefty amount of resistance but what
00:33:00
we're really doing right now is i think
00:33:02
we're learning and realizing the
00:33:03
boundaries
00:33:04
of this movement and of this moment
00:33:07
the one boundary that i think san
00:33:09
franciscans are too bad san francisco
00:33:11
like
00:33:12
you know as in the case in tech has
00:33:13
always been so progressive in terms of
00:33:16
you know doing these things faster than
00:33:18
anyone else but what we're realizing in
00:33:20
san francisco is non-prosecution of
00:33:22
criminals
00:33:23
as the d.a has undertaken over the past
00:33:25
couple of years leads to
00:33:27
really heinous crime um and rampant
00:33:29
crime
00:33:30
and um and and this kind of social
00:33:32
justice movement within the education
00:33:34
system causes a decline in the value of
00:33:36
our education system those are two
00:33:38
really important learnings that san
00:33:40
francisco has had over the past couple
00:33:42
of years with this very important um and
00:33:45
momentous kind of social justice
00:33:46
movement but it doesn't mean that the
00:33:48
movement is over it doesn't mean that
00:33:50
quote-unquote vocalism is over it means
00:33:52
that that social justice intent is still
00:33:54
there but we're realizing where the
00:33:55
boundaries are and how far things can
00:33:57
and maybe should go i posted this
00:33:59
article
00:34:00
um tyler collins who's a you know pretty
00:34:02
well-known economist he wrote this op-ed
00:34:04
for the for bloomberg and what he said
00:34:07
is that wokism has peaked um and there's
00:34:09
just these two passages that builds on
00:34:12
what friedberg said
00:34:13
uh quote by wokism i refer to a movement
00:34:16
that on the positive side is highly
00:34:17
aware of racism and social injustice
00:34:20
and is galvanized towards raising
00:34:22
awareness on the negative side it can be
00:34:24
preachy alienating overly concerned with
00:34:27
symbols and self-righteous unquote
00:34:30
and i think that that probably does
00:34:31
summarize sort of like where it starts
00:34:33
which is i think rooted in a very good
00:34:35
place but unfortunately all too often
00:34:37
where it ends which is that sort of
00:34:39
moral absolutist judgment cancel culture
00:34:43
around it
00:34:44
and then the second quote
00:34:46
that he said was the following he said
00:34:47
quote vocalism is likely to evolve into
00:34:50
a subculture
00:34:51
that is highly educated highly white and
00:34:54
fairly feminine
00:34:56
that is still a large mass of people but
00:34:58
not enough to run the country or all its
00:35:00
major institutions in the san francisco
00:35:02
school board recall for instance the
00:35:04
role of asian americans was especially
00:35:06
prominent unquote so i don't know i just
00:35:09
think that
00:35:10
all these things sort of you know people
00:35:13
are looking for affiliation and you
00:35:15
start with labels that bring you in and
00:35:17
then you have to sort out
00:35:19
are all these labels really true and how
00:35:21
true are they and i think we're in this
00:35:23
moment now where now we know the
00:35:25
mechanism of action of vocalism i just
00:35:26
don't think it works anymore and i think
00:35:28
a lot of people will say i believe in
00:35:30
the high order deals of racial and
00:35:31
social justice but i don't believe in
00:35:33
the mechanism of action and so the
00:35:34
pendulum swung too far
00:35:36
but but but the core intent of a
00:35:38
generation of change is underway which
00:35:41
is social justice and climate change i
00:35:43
think those are the two big uh points of
00:35:45
it just won't be done with this cohort
00:35:47
under this well it won't be done to this
00:35:48
extreme this fast right and um and i
00:35:51
think that the pendulum went too fast
00:35:53
too far
00:35:54
um and it's um and there are boundary
00:35:57
effects that are causing recourse right
00:35:58
now and we're seeing this across the
00:36:00
country especially in new york with the
00:36:02
election of the mayor and san francisco
00:36:04
the d.a recalls happening in the next
00:36:05
couple of months so sax what's your
00:36:07
prediction on the da recall by the way
00:36:08
well that's 95 but i mean to build on
00:36:11
your point they were talking about 10 of
00:36:13
the people in the united states who are
00:36:15
involved in this you know retweeting and
00:36:17
virtual signaling and you know is
00:36:19
twitter a real place well no a city is a
00:36:21
real place people have to live in san
00:36:23
francisco and when these ideologies
00:36:25
result in
00:36:26
unlivable conditions for people well
00:36:29
they're going to say you know what
00:36:30
there's reality here how do we get
00:36:32
competent people to take the positions
00:36:35
sacks that are being vacated now who
00:36:38
should london breed put in these three
00:36:40
positions and
00:36:42
maybe tech people need to i mean this is
00:36:43
what i think has to happen i think some
00:36:45
number of tech people have to get off
00:36:46
the bench and say you know what i'm
00:36:48
going to do a tour of duty as
00:36:50
politicians in san francisco to to take
00:36:53
back the city what should happen here in
00:36:55
terms of who takes these positions
00:36:56
because republicans can't win in san
00:36:58
francisco so you're going to need
00:36:59
moderate democrats right sex before sax
00:37:01
goes can i just say something because i
00:37:03
think i just want to say something
00:37:04
that's really important i'm sorry to
00:37:05
jump in but j cal i think the point
00:37:07
you're making about the tech people
00:37:10
implies the tech people are effective
00:37:11
and good at doing this but that's not
00:37:13
necessarily the fabric of san francisco
00:37:15
i've lived in san francisco since 2001
00:37:18
the number of people in san francisco in
00:37:19
2001 that were in the tech industry was
00:37:21
a minority
00:37:22
since that time it became a significant
00:37:24
size and over the last two years since
00:37:26
the pandemic it's decreased
00:37:27
significantly but san francisco is a
00:37:29
city with decades and generations of
00:37:30
history my wife's family is
00:37:32
multi-generational san franciscans and i
00:37:34
don't think that traditionally san
00:37:36
franciscans view tech people as the
00:37:39
right people to solve these problems for
00:37:41
them that the intention of that city is
00:37:43
not necessarily about let's get tech
00:37:44
people to solve our problems they have a
00:37:46
different set of values perhaps um and
00:37:48
so we we often overstate and assume that
00:37:50
tech people are the right people and are
00:37:52
the the problem solvers but i don't
00:37:54
think that that's necessarily the right
00:37:56
problems that people want to solve so i
00:37:57
just i just wanted to interview and then
00:37:58
who should take these positions because
00:38:00
right people typically
00:38:02
really far left people are motivated to
00:38:04
take these positions i don't see
00:38:06
business people writ large across all
00:38:08
political you know positions but
00:38:10
specifically in san francisco don't want
00:38:11
to take these positions so is this just
00:38:13
going to be replayed saks the recall
00:38:15
effort was led by two parents autumn
00:38:17
lujan and sivaraj they're the ones who
00:38:19
led this thing they're the ones who rose
00:38:21
up to basically oppose these crazy
00:38:24
school board members
00:38:25
and that is who london bridge to talk to
00:38:27
i mean she needs to go talk to the
00:38:29
people who are successful in organizing
00:38:31
this recall because they understand the
00:38:33
issues obviously and the people are with
00:38:35
them so either appoint them to the board
00:38:37
or ask them for their recommendations
00:38:39
and i think what you see consistently
00:38:41
whether it's with this sf uh school
00:38:44
board or the the uh the school boards
00:38:46
that we saw in virginia that yunkan very
00:38:49
effectively ran against is that they
00:38:51
don't believe the parents matter terry
00:38:53
mcauliffe's fatal that his last gaffe
00:38:56
was basically saying that the parents
00:38:57
shouldn't get to decide what is taught
00:38:59
in the schools he basically said the
00:39:00
quiet part out loud but that is what
00:39:02
still across the country the teachers
00:39:05
unions believe and most of the
00:39:06
democratic party the activists believe
00:39:09
and until they start losing elections
00:39:11
you're not going to see a change in that
00:39:12
belief oh my god how awesome would it be
00:39:14
if sacks are on the school board
00:39:16
oh my god
00:39:18
yeah uh and just to put a pin in this uh
00:39:22
and the cherry on top the san francisco
00:39:24
board of supervisors voted seven to four
00:39:27
to send a recall reform bill so their
00:39:30
reaction to all of this is to do a
00:39:32
recall of recalls and say now you uh
00:39:36
can't recall somebody in their first
00:39:38
year and the people who are placed in
00:39:39
these positions can't run again so now
00:39:41
the speculation is the three people who
00:39:42
got voted off are going to run again so
00:39:45
there's a lot more to come on this yeah
00:39:47
and also part so they're putting just to
00:39:49
staff that they're putting that on the
00:39:51
ballot on june 7th the same day that we
00:39:53
vote on the recall of chase booty and
00:39:55
the board of supervisors now put in this
00:39:57
measure that would make it far harder to
00:39:59
recall people one of the provisions of
00:40:00
that is whoever london breed appoints as
00:40:03
the successor like you're talking about
00:40:06
they cannot run
00:40:07
after that so it is designed to for no
00:40:10
that makes no sense they're basically
00:40:12
doing a great job right exactly it makes
00:40:14
no sense so you have the board of
00:40:16
supervisors trying to throw a wrench
00:40:18
into the democratic process meanwhile
00:40:20
these are people who claim to be
00:40:21
preserving democracy saving democracy
00:40:23
they are trying to throw a wrench in
00:40:26
the thing is underlying it david is they
00:40:28
think they know better
00:40:30
that's what it fundamentally comes down
00:40:31
to they are willing to have democracy up
00:40:33
to a point
00:40:35
and when that point is an unacceptable
00:40:37
view by somebody else they feel like
00:40:38
they know better and they're willing to
00:40:40
be really draconian in whatever they do
00:40:43
to decide yeah
00:40:45
and shout out to mike bloomberg i'll
00:40:47
pull up the the tweet for everybody
00:40:49
he hasn't been very vocal or been on the
00:40:51
stage much but obviously he did a great
00:40:53
job in new york on reforming schools the
00:40:55
san francisco school board recalls
00:40:58
should be a wake-up call to elected
00:41:00
officials especially democrats across
00:41:02
the nation parents are fed up with the
00:41:03
status quo and that put adults uh that
00:41:06
puts adults ahead of kids yeah an
00:41:08
ideology ahead of results well said mike
00:41:11
yeah well mr bloomberg yes that was very
00:41:13
good and bloomberg has been very good on
00:41:15
calling out the democrat their
00:41:17
democratic party's blind loyalty to the
00:41:19
teachers unions and until they're
00:41:22
willing to break with the teachers
00:41:23
unions who are their biggest donor we're
00:41:25
not going to get any real progress on
00:41:27
school reform and this is the issue my
00:41:29
favorite political commentator one of
00:41:31
them is roy tashira who's a democrat he
00:41:33
wrote the emerging democratic majority
00:41:35
he wrote a blog post talking about how
00:41:37
the asian how asian american voters are
00:41:39
going to swing away from the democratic
00:41:41
party because of issues like this
00:41:43
because of the decline of standards in
00:41:45
school and safety and and the asian
00:41:47
american community i think is galvanized
00:41:49
on this chase boudin issue because they
00:41:50
have seen
00:41:51
in all these cases of asian hate where
00:41:54
elders in their community have been
00:41:56
violently assaulted chase abu deen has
00:41:58
done nothing except release the
00:42:00
perpetrators walkers all right well
00:42:01
listen this is seems like a good turning
00:42:03
point let's um we talked about on this
00:42:05
podcast over and over again
00:42:07
about the compression in sas multiples
00:42:10
in the public market valuations uh
00:42:12
something that we're still working
00:42:14
through in the stock market which has
00:42:16
been choppy at best over the last couple
00:42:18
of months an information story came out
00:42:20
just this week major crossover funds
00:42:22
like tiger and d1 are slowing down their
00:42:25
investments in late stage private
00:42:26
companies and i was talking to some
00:42:27
folks who said the multiple compression
00:42:30
is here now they're not doing the deals
00:42:32
at 75 or 100 x
00:42:34
revenue this was reported in an article
00:42:36
by the information tiger global told
00:42:38
their lps in a webinar
00:42:40
earlier this month that it would no
00:42:41
longer focus on backing late stage
00:42:44
startups preparing to go public instead
00:42:46
they will focus on two things
00:42:47
going even earlier into series a and
00:42:49
series b rounds and buying shares of
00:42:51
public tech companies that have sunk in
00:42:54
value compared to the all-time highs
00:42:56
obviously we know twillow zoom block all
00:42:59
down over 60 percent from their one year
00:43:01
highs i could get into more details here
00:43:03
but let's stop for a second and chamoth
00:43:04
what are your thoughts in uh the dot-com
00:43:07
bubble
00:43:09
it took somewhere between three to five
00:43:10
years for most stocks to bottom
00:43:13
and they bottomed i think peak to trough
00:43:16
somewhere
00:43:16
you know towards 80
00:43:18
of where they were in 2000 right so it
00:43:22
took three to five years to go basically
00:43:24
minus eighty percent we did that in
00:43:27
three months
00:43:28
you know maybe four months
00:43:30
and so uh the markets have become a lot
00:43:33
more efficient over time
00:43:35
so now that we have that reset it's
00:43:38
pretty natural that there's going to be
00:43:39
a very quick reset on the private market
00:43:42
side
00:43:42
and you know you have to go where the
00:43:44
bodies are buried and what i mean by
00:43:46
that in this case is the
00:43:48
overwhelming misvaluation of late-stage
00:43:52
private companies and so these folks
00:43:54
don't have much of a choice they have a
00:43:56
lot of money
00:43:57
that they've raised
00:43:59
before all of this happened
00:44:01
they have a huge portfolio of stuff that
00:44:03
they've marked up or have been marked up
00:44:05
by others
00:44:07
and they don't want to go through the
00:44:09
pain now resetting so part of the easy
00:44:12
strategic decision there is to say you
00:44:14
know what we know this is a little bit
00:44:16
radioactive
00:44:17
but instead of really figuring out what
00:44:19
the mark on these companies are we'll go
00:44:21
to a different sort of part of the
00:44:24
playground and play there
00:44:26
because we don't have to go and deal
00:44:28
with these issues and you know we can do
00:44:31
10 15 20 million dollar checks into
00:44:32
early stage businesses pretty normal
00:44:35
reaction strategically
00:44:37
but i think the reality is that at some
00:44:39
point in the next year or two these
00:44:41
other companies have to get public the
00:44:43
hope is that the market catches back up
00:44:45
so that you can defend the last
00:44:47
valuation and that's that's the way that
00:44:49
this stuff doesn't require a lot of pain
00:44:52
the problem is if you're high burn
00:44:55
and you are counting on yet another
00:44:56
successive round or
00:44:58
you're at a point in your life cycle
00:45:00
where you need to go public in the next
00:45:02
two years if you go public you will get
00:45:04
taken to the woodshed
00:45:05
taking to the woodshed being your
00:45:07
valuation might be half of what it is in
00:45:08
your last round so there's going to be
00:45:10
medicine that has to be taken sex
00:45:12
there'll be medicine some people are
00:45:13
going to have to take some medicine
00:45:14
sacks what's your best advice being one
00:45:16
of the great operators in the history of
00:45:18
silicon valley as the ceo of paypal
00:45:20
thanks jacob
00:45:22
well i'm gonna put you up there with
00:45:23
cheryl i mean i think that i think
00:45:24
everybody agree the top four people can
00:45:26
correct me here tim was a good operator
00:45:30
i mean i i saw what you did to icq man
00:45:32
you were riding that that bad boy down
00:45:34
that wasn't easy i delivered a billion
00:45:36
[ __ ] users to a company okay pretty
00:45:38
decent um you did pretty good at
00:45:40
facebook i'll say that but if i would
00:45:41
think most people would say sax cheryl
00:45:44
tim cook keith for boy we'll put that
00:45:46
aside for the debate in terms of
00:45:48
operating throwing a little dark spicy
00:45:50
barbecue pork here come on give me a
00:45:51
kiss i'll put you in the top 25 chamoth
00:45:54
okay but i mean it wasn't your was it
00:45:56
your chosen career a little dark meat a
00:45:57
little dark meat nice god please don't
00:46:00
get me in trouble man bring me into your
00:46:02
start me bro you're orbiting
00:46:04
i'm stepping back j cal who are your top
00:46:06
four cheryl i pick my top four in this
00:46:08
order i'll give it an order so basically
00:46:10
for white people when
00:46:12
uh
00:46:14
asian and indian ceos run most of the
00:46:16
tech companies and stuff i'm talking
00:46:18
about number two ceos not ceos just for
00:46:21
the ceo position to be clear i'm not
00:46:22
talking ceo i'm talking co i would say
00:46:25
tim cook when he was steve jobs that's
00:46:27
my number one operator last 23 years
00:46:30
number two i put cheryl sandberg who did
00:46:32
obviously amazing things for google and
00:46:34
then facebook right those two would be
00:46:36
my top two and then i tie my top two
00:46:39
sacks uh as uh at paypal uh and zenifitz
00:46:43
even though it didn't work out it was
00:46:44
still a great run at the time and then i
00:46:46
put keith reboy square
00:46:48
uh and a couple of other companies he
00:46:50
did those are my top four anybody else
00:46:52
want to come at me go ahead i don't have
00:46:54
complete data set on cos where would you
00:46:56
put sex
00:46:57
you uh did i put you over and disagree
00:47:00
who might have disappeared
00:47:02
oh and was it keith adams linkedin
00:47:05
brilliant you are jacob lately that's a
00:47:08
love fest now
00:47:14
you and friedberg are at each other's
00:47:16
throats so i'll just let you guys fight
00:47:18
it out and i'll be all about the love
00:47:19
yeah freeba why are you attacking jake
00:47:21
cal yeah
00:47:26
as an operator extraordinaire what's
00:47:28
your best advice to the company that
00:47:30
raised 100 million and let's say their
00:47:32
valuation is now not a billion it's 500
00:47:34
million what are the steps you take you
00:47:35
got 14 months of runway in the bank do
00:47:38
you lay people off do you extend it to
00:47:39
24 what are your thoughts you must be
00:47:42
dealing with this with companies in your
00:47:43
portfolio
00:47:44
well there's a few things going on first
00:47:45
of all i think tiger built a great
00:47:47
business in providing late stage sort of
00:47:50
passive non-dilutive capital to to
00:47:53
companies sas companies we have a bunch
00:47:54
of of
00:47:55
uh sas businesses that they provided
00:47:58
later stage financing i think those
00:48:00
valuations are gonna come down i don't
00:48:01
know that they're gonna be such a great
00:48:03
partner for series a firms because they
00:48:05
are passive and you know what we see is
00:48:07
that series a companies need a lot of
00:48:09
help they need a lot of advice you need
00:48:10
a lot of help with recruiting governance
00:48:12
governance they need you know when
00:48:14
they're going from say 20 employees to
00:48:16
100 they need to know what that org
00:48:17
chart looks like and on and on and on so
00:48:19
i don't know
00:48:20
that if this report i don't know if this
00:48:22
reporting is actually true but if the
00:48:24
goal is all of a sudden for tiger to
00:48:26
become a series a investor that competes
00:48:28
with craft or sequoia or these other
00:48:30
firms that are not very hands-on that
00:48:32
doesn't seem like a great strategy to me
00:48:34
i do think that for our later stage
00:48:36
companies they have to realize that you
00:48:38
know if they raised can i take the other
00:48:40
side of this sorry david i just want
00:48:42
your reaction to this
00:48:43
i think it's going to work but not for
00:48:45
the right reasons
00:48:47
the reason it'll work is there are way
00:48:49
more entrepreneurs now than there are
00:48:51
great entrepreneurs
00:48:54
and so of all of these entrepreneurs
00:48:56
that exist
00:48:57
the idea of getting passive money
00:49:00
where you won't get fired where there is
00:49:02
that remember like remember when we were
00:49:04
growing up in silicon valley the risk is
00:49:06
always like if you take sequoia
00:49:08
benchmark you know
00:49:09
social capital like there's a high bar
00:49:12
for that capital which means we are
00:49:13
helping you run this business
00:49:14
effectively and there's a cost where if
00:49:17
you don't perform you'll get fired
00:49:18
there's always been that risk it's true
00:49:20
and i guess that's the argument they
00:49:22
could make but the flip side is that
00:49:23
there's a lot of so the ceo now
00:49:26
why would you take a 15 million dollar
00:49:28
series a check from sequoia where they
00:49:29
could fire you whereas 15 million
00:49:31
dollars from tiger they may never call
00:49:33
you we we address that by doing look if
00:49:35
a founder is really worried about that
00:49:37
we address that by giving them three
00:49:38
board seats you know we might have one
00:49:40
they might have three
00:49:42
i mean my view on it is you just never
00:49:44
fire a founder unless they've done
00:49:45
something criminal it's just that simple
00:49:47
but um so look i think there's ways of
00:49:49
addressing the governance where
00:49:52
uh you can get the help or the value out
00:49:54
of an early stage firm without giving up
00:49:55
the control
00:49:58
so yeah i mean look that's the pitch
00:49:59
that tiger would make but i think that's
00:50:01
addressable
00:50:02
uh what do you think of that pitch
00:50:03
fredberg i will give you the 15 million
00:50:05
dollar series a you don't have to have a
00:50:07
board you can just be passive and let us
00:50:10
know how it goes give us a quarterly
00:50:12
report we'll look at the p l
00:50:14
that's all of crypto now anyways that's
00:50:15
true well i mean that's a fair point no
00:50:17
governance in crypto is leading to a lot
00:50:19
of weird stuff i can tell you i tell
00:50:20
people this a lot so i had um three term
00:50:23
sheets for my series b uh it was from
00:50:25
andreessen horowitz coastal ventures and
00:50:28
founders fund and founders fund
00:50:30
came in kind of last minute
00:50:32
but i went with coast law uh even though
00:50:34
it's a lower valuation because vinod was
00:50:36
pretty insistent like let me put
00:50:38
someone that could be useful some you
00:50:40
know government person because we were
00:50:41
doing a lot of work lobbying in in dc on
00:50:44
your board we won't be on your board we
00:50:46
won't bother you and i took the round
00:50:47
and then my series c i took from
00:50:49
founders fund because brian zingerman
00:50:50
who's obviously a good friend um you
00:50:53
know made the case like look uh
00:50:55
our model at founders fund is we let
00:50:56
founders run the business we're not here
00:50:58
to tell you how to run your business and
00:50:59
they were both great fits and you know
00:51:01
it worked out well i didn't i had
00:51:03
i have had experience with antagonistic
00:51:06
vcs on boards and um you know it
00:51:08
generally creates a pretty negative
00:51:09
dynamic now when i was the worst story
00:51:11
without the person's name i don't think
00:51:13
i want to go public with it so i'm not
00:51:14
going to do that um but when i was on
00:51:16
give us an idea of what the behavior
00:51:18
would be because there are people in the
00:51:19
audience who want to know what is bad
00:51:20
behavior of vc just give us a composite
00:51:22
when you're an entrepreneur or ceo
00:51:23
running an early stage business you live
00:51:26
that business 20 hours a day you know
00:51:28
the details if you're smart you're
00:51:30
thorough you're analytical you're
00:51:31
creative there is no one that's going to
00:51:33
come in the boardroom for two hours a
00:51:35
quarter and suggest things to you that
00:51:37
you haven't thought of there's no one
00:51:39
that's gonna come in the room and be
00:51:40
smarter than you at your own business
00:51:41
and so more often than not vinod's been
00:51:44
exceptional at defining this problem the
00:51:46
problem is vcs join a board and they
00:51:48
think that they have to quote add value
00:51:51
so they come in and they make a bunch of
00:51:52
suggestions and recommendations and push
00:51:54
you to do a bunch of things and as the
00:51:56
node has said correctly many times they
00:51:58
more often than not add negative value
00:52:00
they can actually destroy and damage a
00:52:02
business because they need to feel like
00:52:04
they're exerting some degree of
00:52:05
influence over the business and as a
00:52:06
result they push the business to do
00:52:08
things that the ceo or founder otherwise
00:52:10
wouldn't be doing and that often ends up
00:52:12
in a kind of weird sticky kind of place
00:52:14
so i just validated the tiger pitch
00:52:16
right there i think that's right and by
00:52:17
the way it's why founders fund founders
00:52:19
fund is fantastic i don't know if you
00:52:21
guys are lps but their investment
00:52:24
returns are so far beyond what i think
00:52:25
anyone really realizes they're
00:52:27
incredible investors and a big part of
00:52:29
it is they try and find the entrepreneur
00:52:30
that doesn't want and doesn't need the
00:52:32
help and then they give them the capital
00:52:34
to go and execute and they leave them
00:52:35
the heck alone and they are just so good
00:52:37
at finding those folks identifying them
00:52:39
and then literally being passive in in
00:52:42
how they kind of manage and operate
00:52:43
their business and that's why they're so
00:52:44
freaking good i think the people you're
00:52:46
talking about are a lot of rookie vcs
00:52:48
who come in and then yeah they they
00:52:50
think that not just
00:52:51
just experienced ex operators even
00:52:53
people who ran businesses who say i know
00:52:55
how to run a business and look no two
00:52:56
businesses are alike so maybe the way
00:52:58
they ran their business with their team
00:53:00
and their market and their industry
00:53:01
worked well for them but now when they
00:53:03
got to come in and do it with someone
00:53:04
else's business and some other space
00:53:06
with some completely different team you
00:53:08
know they try and exert influence and
00:53:09
really it's just you know not wanted let
00:53:11
me go to sac sacks hold on i want to
00:53:13
just get one from you
00:53:14
give us an idea because you've been in
00:53:16
the business for over 20 years
00:53:18
uh i mean by the looks of it maybe 40.
00:53:20
but 20 years of just
00:53:22
crushing it in the business what's the
00:53:23
worst behavior you've seen on a board
00:53:27
you can make a composite of like a vc
00:53:29
being destructive on a board
00:53:31
yeah i mean look i think sometimes vcs
00:53:34
will have sort of hobby horses and
00:53:36
they'll keep pushing for things that the
00:53:37
founder doesn't want
00:53:39
that's not productive
00:53:41
but what i would say is first of all let
00:53:43
me just say like i'm not somebody who
00:53:46
likes to take board seats and i i do it
00:53:48
as a it's like i see it as a cost not a
00:53:51
benefit to me because it takes up my
00:53:53
time if i didn't have to ever take a
00:53:54
board seat that'd be a great as far as
00:53:56
i'm concerned that'd be a good thing i'm
00:53:58
not somebody who
00:53:59
wants to you know insert myself and get
00:54:01
on these boards you know offer it as an
00:54:03
incentive no i only i only took more
00:54:06
sales yeah the only reason i'll ever
00:54:08
take aboard c is because i have to do it
00:54:09
because the founder insists that
00:54:11
otherwise they won't go with i've seen
00:54:12
it
00:54:13
so exactly then you'll do it for one
00:54:14
year right you'll say hey i'll do it for
00:54:16
a year i always time limit it now
00:54:18
because i just can't i mean
00:54:19
i can't make a ten year obligation you
00:54:21
know it's typically like one or two
00:54:22
years and then you know we'll see
00:54:24
doesn't mean i'll roll off in two years
00:54:26
but um but i but i need to have the
00:54:28
expectation
00:54:29
set up and and the reality is if the
00:54:32
company can perform well for another two
00:54:34
years they'll be at a different stage
00:54:36
and maybe they won't you know need my
00:54:38
help as much so
00:54:39
the two most valuable
00:54:42
pieces of private equity that i own
00:54:45
is a company called dcg
00:54:47
and it's a company called netscope and
00:54:50
collectively it's like billion dollars
00:54:51
worth of stock that i own what i'm on
00:54:54
the board of one i'm not on the board of
00:54:56
the other anymore
00:54:57
and i text with these guys maybe once
00:54:59
every two or three months at best
00:55:02
so you know completely confirming david
00:55:04
your point that great founders are just
00:55:06
n of one individuals you know barry
00:55:09
silbert um sanjay berry next level guys
00:55:14
but that's very different
00:55:16
than the the series a playbook because
00:55:18
when i ran institutional money i'm
00:55:20
telling you there is a pressure to be
00:55:21
involved and show some value
00:55:24
and i do think that there is a level of
00:55:27
judgment on the ceo
00:55:29
that has happened now maybe that's
00:55:30
changed historically but i think that's
00:55:32
the single biggest pivot
00:55:34
that one would exploit if you were tiger
00:55:36
or co2 or d1 stepping into the early
00:55:39
stage game which is to essentially make
00:55:41
it a feature and it's not dissimilar to
00:55:43
when dst and yuri milner entered the
00:55:46
late stage round you know what was his
00:55:48
big differentiation i'll take common
00:55:50
stock and i won't take a board seat i
00:55:52
didn't see it
00:55:53
to be influential it seemed so
00:55:55
counter-intuitive and so
00:55:57
against the grain but he acknowledged
00:56:00
what was this thing that up until that
00:56:02
point was true which is common and
00:56:04
preferred converged in price per share
00:56:07
so buying common in a late stage company
00:56:09
was the same as buying preferred yo well
00:56:12
that's something you should explain
00:56:14
for a second people don't know you said
00:56:15
at an ipo
00:56:16
well let's start so when you set up a
00:56:18
company you have a price per share of
00:56:20
the common stock and then a price per
00:56:21
share that the series a investor has
00:56:24
the series a investor is buying
00:56:25
preferred shares that actually looks
00:56:28
more like debt than equity and what i
00:56:30
mean by that is there's typically a
00:56:31
coupon there's a rate of return there's
00:56:33
accumulated dividends all these features
00:56:37
give it a certain price per share and
00:56:39
the common has none of those features
00:56:40
and so it has a lower protective
00:56:42
provisions
00:56:43
and that gap is typically around 20 to 1
00:56:46
when you set up a company okay
00:56:48
and that's what allows you to hire
00:56:49
employees and give them very very cheap
00:56:52
options with embedded upside
00:56:54
then what happens is you raise more and
00:56:56
more of these series b series c series d
00:56:58
these preference stack right preferred
00:57:01
shares build up
00:57:02
but the value of the comment keeps
00:57:03
rising too and by the time you go public
00:57:05
the gap converges
00:57:08
what yuri realized was hey wait a minute
00:57:10
i'm buying a company a year or 18 months
00:57:12
before it goes public the price of the
00:57:14
common and the price of the preferred
00:57:15
are roughly the same
00:57:17
and so i'm just gonna you know do that
00:57:19
and i'm not gonna take a board seat
00:57:20
because it's clear this company is
00:57:21
successful so similarly for tiger d1 and
00:57:24
co2 i would just observe the obvious and
00:57:27
kind of put everything that we've just
00:57:28
said on the table which is hey guys i'll
00:57:30
give you the money you're either end of
00:57:32
one or not
00:57:33
i'm making a guess that you are and i'm
00:57:35
just going to get out of your way and
00:57:36
leave you alone bundling governance and
00:57:39
advice unbundling the governance and
00:57:40
advice piece from the capital piece but
00:57:42
you're going to still need that
00:57:43
governance and advice piece i think i
00:57:44
think it could work yeah i mean i think
00:57:46
there's a lot of great founders or their
00:57:48
founders who start young and experienced
00:57:50
become great and the smart ones listen
00:57:52
to advice on the way and they they seek
00:57:54
out people who've done it before and
00:57:56
so
00:57:57
you know yes they may be in no one
00:57:59
business by the growth stage but that
00:58:01
doesn't mean they don't need any help
00:58:03
whatsoever at the series a stage such a
00:58:04
good observation yeah and look i think
00:58:06
there's been i think there's been an
00:58:07
evolution in silicon valley i'd actually
00:58:09
say there's been like three distinct
00:58:10
phases in the venture capital world and
00:58:12
i remember all of them so you go back to
00:58:14
the the night the late 90s okay when you
00:58:17
know you had this mentality on the part
00:58:18
of vcs that if a company became
00:58:21
successful you would just automatically
00:58:22
replace the founders right you go bring
00:58:24
professional ceo upgrade that was a
00:58:26
disaster okay and and that's when
00:58:28
founders fund peter came in i think
00:58:29
founded um founders fund in 2003 and the
00:58:33
reason they called it founders fund is
00:58:34
to indicate they were going to be
00:58:35
pro-founder and they would never replace
00:58:37
the founder and they would let you do
00:58:39
whatever you wanted and i think zachary
00:58:41
you want to tell the backstory of the
00:58:42
sean parker stuff and how that happened
00:58:43
yeah i mean so basically both peter and
00:58:46
sean parker had you know experiences
00:58:49
they felt were very negative with
00:58:51
sequoia and by the way i have a great
00:58:53
relationship with sequoia roloff who
00:58:54
worked with us at paypal is there and i
00:58:56
think they've evolved as a firm so i'm
00:58:58
not calling them out or anything but
00:59:00
but both sean parker and peter felt like
00:59:03
sequoia pushed out and replaced and so
00:59:06
with plaque so specifically
00:59:08
there were a couple of different
00:59:09
companies involved but when peter was uh
00:59:10
ceo of paypal as well that
00:59:13
you know he felt he felt that pressure
00:59:15
as well so when they then founded as two
00:59:17
of the four founding partners of
00:59:18
founders one back in 2003 the whole
00:59:21
point was we are going to be pro founder
00:59:23
you're never going to replace you will
00:59:24
let you do whatever you want i think
00:59:26
that that was phase two and that became
00:59:28
i think the dominant model and so
00:59:29
becoming pro founder was now table
00:59:32
stakes and i think the third phase has
00:59:34
been you know what andreessen harvest
00:59:36
has now done with this massive
00:59:38
like the services and the value add
00:59:40
which is that we're gonna basically not
00:59:42
only be pro-founder but we're gonna like
00:59:44
bring all these resources to help you
00:59:47
and that's the era we're in right now i
00:59:49
mean from the from our perspective like
00:59:51
as as craft i mean look it's not in our
00:59:54
interest to get into any dispute with a
00:59:56
founder and if we feel like our advice
00:59:58
isn't being taken well we just back off
01:00:00
you know of course we're pro founder
01:00:02
like we don't want the control we're not
01:00:04
control investors and you know if it's
01:00:07
if
01:00:08
it's becoming frictional we'd rather
01:00:09
just get out of the way no it's just not
01:00:11
working
01:00:12
the underlying thing that you're not
01:00:13
saying though is because you have enough
01:00:15
of a fund that's large enough where you
01:00:17
can have enough bets where any of these
01:00:19
any of these things to the upside is a
01:00:21
total needle mover but anything that
01:00:23
goes to zero doesn't actually diminish
01:00:25
the fund or impair it meaningfully so
01:00:27
there is no upside to getting engaged
01:00:29
and really being non-anti-founder so
01:00:31
yeah i think it's a i think it's a part
01:00:33
of a business model but one thing i want
01:00:34
to tell you about parker parker was
01:00:36
single-handedly incredibly responsible
01:00:38
for keeping zuck in the seat when he was
01:00:40
president of facebook because parker
01:00:41
wrote
01:00:42
you know uh this structure that really
01:00:44
allowed mark to keep control super
01:00:46
voting shares sax to add on to your your
01:00:49
point i think that there's been
01:00:51
uh so so it there seems to be a
01:00:53
bifurcation around the services model or
01:00:55
not but the fourth thing that seems to
01:00:57
have happened and you guys tell me if
01:00:58
i'm wrong on this but it plays into the
01:01:00
tiger global story
01:01:02
when i was um uh when i got that term
01:01:05
sheet for my series b
01:01:06
at climate corp marc andreessen i was
01:01:08
trying to raise like 25 to 30 million
01:01:10
dollars and mark anderson was like we're
01:01:11
gonna give you a turn sheet for 40
01:01:12
million dollars more than you were
01:01:14
asking for uh because we want you to use
01:01:16
that extra capital to go faster to go
01:01:18
harder to grab the market because we
01:01:20
have this big pitch in businesses
01:01:21
grabbing the market
01:01:23
and that seems to have also become a bit
01:01:24
of a mainstay but not just a mainstay
01:01:26
but now almost like the the the kind of
01:01:29
standard pitch that a lot of the later
01:01:32
stage guys are taking which is like
01:01:33
here's so much capital that it helps you
01:01:36
make the market and then the softbank
01:01:38
vision fund kind of took that to the
01:01:39
extreme with 100 billion raise and tiger
01:01:41
global i think last year have publicly
01:01:43
said they deployed about 15 billion
01:01:45
dollars into startups where startup may
01:01:48
in a natural cycle kind of evolve to
01:01:49
needing 70 million raise or 100 million
01:01:52
raise and they're like writing checks
01:01:53
for 250 or 300 and saying this extra
01:01:55
capital gives you the ability to move
01:01:57
faster and the reason is
01:01:58
the faster a business moves
01:02:01
the higher the multiple they get on
01:02:02
their revenue so the higher the growth
01:02:04
rate the higher the multiple so if you
01:02:06
can deploy capital faster if we could
01:02:07
find a business where we can pump money
01:02:09
through you to get it out the door
01:02:10
faster your multiple goes up and tiger's
01:02:13
model was let's just get the multiples
01:02:15
up there's multiple expansion and growth
01:02:17
so we'll make money two ways when the
01:02:19
company goes public in 18 to 24 months
01:02:21
obviously when the markets end up
01:02:22
tanking and all those multiples compress
01:02:24
no growth rate is going to solve that
01:02:26
problem for you um but
01:02:28
having more capital than maybe you were
01:02:30
thinking or asking for also seems to
01:02:32
have become kind of an attacking i don't
01:02:34
know if that if you view that as kind of
01:02:35
this fourth evolution but that certainly
01:02:38
wasn't the case 20 years ago when vcs
01:02:40
were being careful about is it a six
01:02:41
million dollar round or an 8 million
01:02:43
what's the right amount of capital and
01:02:45
nowadays it's much more about take more
01:02:46
than you need i'll say there was a 3.5
01:02:49
in there which is you saw a little bit
01:02:51
of lack of governance or superpowers on
01:02:54
the part of like some incompetent
01:02:56
founders or bad founders
01:02:57
just you know whether it's we work
01:02:59
theranos whatever too much control not
01:03:01
enough governance things go off the rail
01:03:03
but you know based on this discussion i
01:03:04
really think this bifurcates when it's a
01:03:06
first-time founder versus a second time
01:03:08
founder in what i see because i have
01:03:10
been doing board training for seed
01:03:12
companies where i will just have three
01:03:14
founders
01:03:15
sit in on each other's first board
01:03:17
meetings we do one board meeting each
01:03:19
and i train them how board meetings
01:03:20
works and what i experienced with
01:03:21
sequoia on my board and other boards and
01:03:24
first-time founders like the tactical
01:03:25
stuff
01:03:26
how to run a board meeting legal hr
01:03:28
hiring partnerships go to market
01:03:31
strategies man it is
01:03:32
all tactical all the time and then when
01:03:35
i've been on with second and third time
01:03:36
founders
01:03:37
you know they really are like here's all
01:03:39
the materials here's what i'm thinking
01:03:40
about what do we think strategically so
01:03:43
they go from the tactical level to the
01:03:44
strategic admission level awfully quick
01:03:46
and they actually seem to enjoy having
01:03:48
those four meetings a year whereas the
01:03:49
first time founders really need to have
01:03:51
six to ten a year in those in that first
01:03:53
you know call it year two of a company
01:03:55
that's my experience i realized in this
01:03:58
discussion
01:03:59
that the market has really meaningfully
01:04:01
changed meaning when i was actively
01:04:03
investing even in the early 2000s
01:04:06
or sorry in the in you know 2011-1213
01:04:10
there was a culture where if you
01:04:12
underperformed you would get replaced
01:04:14
and i think david what you just spoke
01:04:16
about which i guess is true
01:04:18
has really changed which is if you're
01:04:20
running a multi-multi-billion dollar
01:04:22
fund where every check is 20 million
01:04:24
dollars the upside is billions but the
01:04:26
downside is negative 20. there's just no
01:04:28
point
01:04:29
and so you know sequoia used to be known
01:04:31
as a very very very tough tough tough
01:04:34
place for ceos that were underperforming
01:04:36
now they got a nine billion dollar fund
01:04:38
now yeah maybe
01:04:42
less than 10 years ago i think it was i
01:04:44
think it was known as a very tough
01:04:45
demanding place i think benchmark was
01:04:47
known as a very tough demanding place
01:04:48
because the money was much more finite
01:04:51
right benchmark still still that case
01:04:53
yeah i mean the expectation culture they
01:04:55
never they never grew their fund size no
01:04:57
jason you're not you're not hearing me
01:04:59
yeah i am i think what's happening is
01:05:01
listen i had sequoia on my board and i
01:05:03
worked at sequoia so there's difference
01:05:04
between high expectations which i think
01:05:06
all these folks have to have
01:05:08
and the willingness to replace the
01:05:10
founder as ceo
01:05:12
and what i'm saying is every vc claims
01:05:14
this but there were a handful of vcs
01:05:16
that had the courage to do this i mean
01:05:18
famously mike morris and john doerr you
01:05:20
know had it out with larry uh
01:05:22
at the you know right right after this
01:05:24
round like either go public you know get
01:05:26
your business model or give us your
01:05:27
money back famously at google so they're
01:05:30
not they're willing to draw a line in
01:05:31
this end i think that that has
01:05:33
fundamentally changed at all these
01:05:34
organizations because the fund sizes
01:05:36
have gone up and the and the
01:05:38
mathematical reality of venture capital
01:05:40
has changed something else you're
01:05:41
missing which is you got to remember
01:05:43
moritz and door were not operators and
01:05:45
now these companies are being run ruloff
01:05:48
is running sequoia and he's an operator
01:05:50
and he was there so the changing of the
01:05:52
guard and mark andreessen and ben
01:05:53
horowitz were operators so the operator
01:05:56
class behaves very differently i
01:05:58
disagree with you i think that it
01:05:59
functions respectfully
01:06:01
no hold on i think that fun size
01:06:03
dictates this behavior more than any
01:06:05
singular other feature when you're
01:06:07
running a nine billion dollar fund you
01:06:09
just don't sweat that changing of the
01:06:11
ceo and david said it really well you
01:06:13
just say okay i'll cut our losses and
01:06:15
move on we don't lose i think it's more
01:06:16
about the culture change in silicon
01:06:18
valley of a bunch of mba finance people
01:06:20
who have never run a company now moving
01:06:22
and running companies but you know let's
01:06:24
move on to the next any uh closing
01:06:26
thoughts on this one well just i mean
01:06:28
jason you start to make this point that
01:06:30
if you're a founder and you want to
01:06:31
eventually run a great public company
01:06:34
when you ipo guess what you're going to
01:06:36
have governance
01:06:37
and what i've seen big time right i mean
01:06:40
there's just delaware law there's just a
01:06:42
lot of like expectations around being a
01:06:44
public company and so if you don't have
01:06:48
a board you know and you're not
01:06:49
constituting one until you go public
01:06:51
there's going to be a massive amount of
01:06:53
cleanup that you have to do i mean
01:06:55
that's what i've seen
01:06:56
and so you'll end up scrambling to
01:06:58
create a board i think that the board
01:07:01
serves so many purposes early on of
01:07:03
giving you advice of giving you
01:07:05
structure
01:07:06
of providing support help services
01:07:09
you can still remain in control while
01:07:11
getting those things and i'm just i'm
01:07:13
just skeptical that like if you form a
01:07:15
company with completely passive vcs you
01:07:18
don't even serve on a board like you're
01:07:20
gonna have to do a lot of cleanup later
01:07:22
i'd say at a minimum totally i think
01:07:24
that that's true too totally i'm not by
01:07:26
the way i'm not saying i'm i advocate
01:07:28
this but i'm i just think that
01:07:30
the reality is that if these large
01:07:32
late-stage crossover firms really step
01:07:34
into the early stage
01:07:36
i think they could really build a big
01:07:37
book of business um i do think there are
01:07:40
a lot of founders who would love to just
01:07:42
be given the money and just to be left
01:07:44
alone i'm not saying that they think
01:07:46
they know that it's better for them
01:07:48
but on the margin just to be able to be
01:07:50
left alone now what has changed maybe
01:07:52
those everybody's going to be very hands
01:07:54
off just because all the fun sizes have
01:07:55
exploded
01:07:56
so at that point then you know what is
01:07:58
the difference between sequoia and d1
01:08:00
time will tell i just know that like
01:08:02
when i see a founder doing something
01:08:04
that i think could risk the company
01:08:05
going off the rails i'll say so and then
01:08:08
you know if it keeps happening and the
01:08:10
situation gets worse i'll say so again i
01:08:12
might
01:08:13
mention the third time i might not
01:08:15
at a certain point i'm just like maybe
01:08:17
after like two times i'm just like they
01:08:19
don't want to listen to me that's fine
01:08:20
it's their decision their company their
01:08:22
decision they go off the rails their
01:08:24
problem you know we'll move on to the
01:08:25
next one i mean that's the reality
01:08:28
sometimes founders have to learn by
01:08:30
doing it like sometimes their intent and
01:08:31
you know what they could be right and
01:08:32
you could be wrong too so it's hard as a
01:08:35
as a it's hard as a board member you
01:08:37
know that's why i'm very judicious in
01:08:39
giving advice as a board member now and
01:08:41
i'm on a bunch of boards and doing word
01:08:43
training because when roloff was on my
01:08:45
board and he still is you know he would
01:08:46
ask great questions and he would be very
01:08:48
thoughtful about hey have you thought
01:08:50
about this or when i got advice from
01:08:51
doug or michael moritz directly you know
01:08:53
doug would say hey well can you share
01:08:56
the two-year plan with me and i'd say
01:08:57
you know we haven't built a plan and he
01:08:58
said well you know jason you know hope
01:09:00
is not a plan let's make a plan and
01:09:01
let's discuss you know the milestones
01:09:03
along here and it was amazing to have
01:09:05
that level of thoughtfulness around
01:09:07
total vision as a founder i love i mean
01:09:10
as a founder i love getting advice and i
01:09:12
think you got to be really dumb not to
01:09:13
seek it out i mean i when i was a
01:09:15
founder i would even though i was sort
01:09:16
of competing with benioff i would meet
01:09:17
with him and i would like get amazing
01:09:19
tidbits
01:09:20
um just recently we did it wasn't like
01:09:23
an official board meeting because roloff
01:09:24
isn't on our board but he's a big
01:09:26
investor in one of my incubations
01:09:29
colin
01:09:31
and we just did a meeting with him and
01:09:33
and uh and gets it in every time not to
01:09:36
be confused with all in but no yeah not
01:09:38
to be confused but we have a trademark
01:09:40
it was it was me and axel who's the
01:09:42
co-founder of paulin and um and roloff
01:09:45
and we had like an amazing meeting where
01:09:47
we got like i'd say amazing advice from
01:09:50
roloff that like focused us and it
01:09:53
wasn't that i didn't know these things
01:09:55
but it's just like when you're in the
01:09:56
weeds sometimes you don't necessarily
01:09:58
crystallize on focus on the most
01:09:59
important thing and i came out of that
01:10:01
meaning feeling like okay roloff just
01:10:04
refocused us on the most important thing
01:10:06
and it was immensely valuable and you've
01:10:08
got to be like dumb not to seek that out
01:10:10
no matter what stage you're at because i
01:10:12
seek it out today
01:10:13
yeah and think about this david you're
01:10:15
in the thick of things
01:10:16
he's on square's board he's on other
01:10:19
boards he's got a picture of the entire
01:10:21
playing field it's like somebody who's
01:10:23
the coach of 15 nba
01:10:25
uh teams and you're like the coach of
01:10:28
one he's seeing things on other nba
01:10:30
teams that they're doing in
01:10:31
methodologies and best practices that
01:10:33
you're just not gonna see
01:10:34
so i mean again and then if you look at
01:10:36
the great founders tk used to come to me
01:10:39
uh and say hey you know this is the
01:10:41
thing i'm gonna be doing at the next
01:10:42
board meeting or here's the thing can we
01:10:44
jam out and he would just ask for a jam
01:10:46
session he came up with that term and
01:10:47
three or four people would get together
01:10:49
and just jam and talk for five hours
01:10:50
about the product it was awesome all
01:10:52
right let's go on to uh david saks's
01:10:55
favorite
01:10:56
section of the show
01:10:58
science with the sultan of science
01:11:00
himself oh oh i thought you were going
01:11:02
to say his favorite paul graham
01:11:04
oh enough with that ooh
01:11:06
we can't talk about that that was
01:11:08
exactly exciting you have to you if you
01:11:10
are engaged in the science segment david
01:11:13
sox and pg are in a fight all right
01:11:15
let's cover it here's the deal if david
01:11:17
sacks is engaged during the science
01:11:19
portion of the class we will let him
01:11:21
have his fight
01:11:22
uh as the as the teacher here tell us a
01:11:24
little bit about stem cells and uh this
01:11:27
hiv story i was going to tell sax that
01:11:29
the the earth is round okay it's not
01:11:31
flat i don't care yeah um how does that
01:11:34
affect solana
01:11:36
so sorry the story that i think we
01:11:37
wanted to you guys wanted to cover today
01:11:39
with the hiv story which um
01:11:41
incredible
01:11:42
i suggested this topic so i'm interested
01:11:45
explain it to us
01:11:46
hiv is a retrovirus meaning once you get
01:11:49
infected it doesn't go away
01:11:51
he doesn't care he's
01:11:56
he's flipping through his politico notes
01:11:58
to figure out what did he miss saying
01:12:00
that he was supposed to say today he
01:12:01
just flipped over to ben shapiro on 2x
01:12:05
he's listening to jordan peterson and
01:12:06
sam harris in conversation go ahead okay
01:12:09
okay
01:12:10
the the hiv being cured headline uh you
01:12:13
know we can dive into it for two minutes
01:12:15
but hiv is a retrovirus when you get
01:12:16
infected with hiv it stays in your body
01:12:18
forever it actually ends up living
01:12:20
inside of your immune cells that's what
01:12:22
makes it such an interesting challenging
01:12:24
virus
01:12:25
and it destroys those immune cells so
01:12:27
over time you end up getting aids and
01:12:29
the way it enters the immune cells is
01:12:30
through a specific protein
01:12:33
some people have a genetic mutation
01:12:35
where if there's a change in the their
01:12:38
dna and that protein is different hiv
01:12:41
cannot enter their immune cells and they
01:12:42
can actually they are naturally immune
01:12:44
to hiv
01:12:45
ccr5
01:12:46
yeah and so what's happened is um found
01:12:50
apparently in white
01:12:52
northern europeans yeah like norwegians
01:12:54
i think
01:12:55
yeah exactly and um anyway so what's uh
01:12:58
the interesting study that was done
01:13:00
um all immune cells are made
01:13:03
from stem cells in your bone marrow and
01:13:05
so you know all the white blood cells
01:13:07
that we have that fight off our diseases
01:13:08
come from our bone marrow and
01:13:10
um when you get a blood cancer sometimes
01:13:14
you end up getting so severe that you
01:13:15
have to actually wipe out
01:13:17
all the immune cells in your body and
01:13:19
give yours and you end up with a bone
01:13:21
marrow transplant so you get new bone
01:13:23
marrow put in your new blood cells put
01:13:24
in and hopefully if you can survive the
01:13:27
therapy and survive that treatment those
01:13:29
uh that new bone marrow will produce new
01:13:31
immune cells and your body will recover
01:13:33
and you will be cured of your blood
01:13:35
cancer
01:13:36
so what happened is people had hiv
01:13:39
and when you get this uh this bone
01:13:40
marrow transplant you end up you know
01:13:42
they give you radiation and chemo and
01:13:43
they wipe out all your blood cells
01:13:45
um uh and and then they give you this
01:13:47
bone marrow transplant so they
01:13:49
selectively chose
01:13:51
um
01:13:52
bone marrow stem cells
01:13:54
that came from people that have the uh
01:13:56
the genetic mutation uh that uh that
01:13:59
prevents hiv
01:14:00
so then when these hiv patients that got
01:14:02
blood cancer got a bone marrow
01:14:04
transplant with this mutation in it they
01:14:07
were cured of hiv um and so it's a
01:14:09
pretty profound
01:14:10
kind of demonstration of what we already
01:14:12
knew which is that this genetic mutation
01:14:15
can
01:14:16
can prevent hiv and there are a lot of
01:14:19
therapies that are underway right now
01:14:22
to actually
01:14:23
use gene editing to
01:14:25
induce
01:14:26
that mutation in people's uh blood cells
01:14:29
and in their bone marrow without needing
01:14:31
to give them a whole transplant
01:14:32
the the first guy that did it the first
01:14:34
guy that did it was german right or he
01:14:36
was in germany i think and
01:14:38
he unfortunately passed away
01:14:40
uh they cured his his hiv aids but he
01:14:44
unfortunately had a
01:14:45
relapse of the leukemia that killed him
01:14:47
but i think all three cases of people
01:14:49
that
01:14:50
um that have been quote unquote cured
01:14:53
uh have have been these leukemia
01:14:55
patients but i'll say two things two
01:14:56
things about the future of this kind of
01:14:58
possibility number one is you don't need
01:15:00
to get a bone marrow transplant to have
01:15:03
this um mutation induced in your cells
01:15:07
to prevent this infection from uh kind
01:15:09
of occurring in your body you can use
01:15:10
gene editing tools to do that and so we
01:15:12
are now developing genetic therapies
01:15:14
where rather than go and get a whole
01:15:15
bone marrow transplant to cure your hiv
01:15:18
we can actually edit your cells those
01:15:20
edited cells will now be resistant and
01:15:21
you will be resolved of hiv the second
01:15:23
thing is the way that they gave people
01:15:25
the bone marrow transplant the way they
01:15:26
created those stem cells for the bone
01:15:28
marrow transplant was from umbilical
01:15:30
cord uh blood from from newborns which
01:15:33
is very rich in stem cells and this is a
01:15:36
traditional way of kind of giving people
01:15:38
stem cell-based therapies is you go and
01:15:40
source stem cells from another body or
01:15:42
your own body which are called
01:15:43
autologous stem cells but like i just
01:15:45
want to say one thing what's really
01:15:46
interesting in the future is not going
01:15:48
to be about pulling other people's stem
01:15:50
cells into your body and finding them
01:15:52
from you know fetal blood or what have
01:15:53
you we now have the technology which
01:15:56
i've talked about multiple times on the
01:15:57
show called yamanaka factors where
01:15:59
theoretically we can take your cells
01:16:02
from your own body
01:16:03
turn them into stem cells grow them in a
01:16:06
lab and use that as the therapy that's
01:16:08
called autologous stem cell therapy and
01:16:10
rather than use stem cells or trying to
01:16:12
find them and circ you know figure them
01:16:14
out where they are in your body and pull
01:16:15
them out we can actually do stem cells
01:16:17
for your body and that's like you know
01:16:18
15 years out is um
01:16:20
autologous induced stem cell therapy
01:16:22
where you actually make your own stem
01:16:24
cells and then give yourself all sorts
01:16:25
of therapies not just bone marrow
01:16:26
transplants but you can heal lots of
01:16:28
tissue in the body using these stem cell
01:16:30
systems we don't really hear about hiv
01:16:33
aids anymore in that article i think it
01:16:34
said that there's about 37 million
01:16:36
people around the world that have hiv
01:16:38
aids and it's incredible actually the
01:16:40
amount of progress that science has made
01:16:41
in this disease i remember when i was
01:16:43
growing up
01:16:44
it was made
01:16:45
to to be like this incredible boogeyman
01:16:48
yeah um and it really governed like a
01:16:51
lot of social norms at the time because
01:16:53
we were still discovering what hiv aids
01:16:55
was and you know how you know how do you
01:16:57
think about sexual uh promiscuity you
01:17:00
know from a moral and ethical
01:17:02
perspective um i think it had a huge
01:17:04
impact on my generation absolutely it
01:17:06
did it was a death sentence they they
01:17:08
made us paranoid so here's what's
01:17:10
happened therapies have gotten so good
01:17:12
at suppressing suppressing the virus if
01:17:15
the virus is suppressed far enough even
01:17:16
though you are always going to be
01:17:18
infected if it's suppressed far enough
01:17:20
the who and the fda have both said you
01:17:22
can still have unprotected sex and not
01:17:24
transmit hiv and so even though there
01:17:26
are plenty of people out there that
01:17:28
might be having unprotected sex with hiv
01:17:30
um the therapies have suppressed the
01:17:32
viral load to the point that they're not
01:17:34
transmitting it actively and so that's
01:17:36
been the big breakthrough in science
01:17:37
over the last decade and then they also
01:17:38
had these prep pills right which people
01:17:40
could take proactive if they thought
01:17:42
they might you know find themselves but
01:17:44
i mean champ you and i lived in a
01:17:45
generation where i mean that was exactly
01:17:48
it was the end of things yeah well i
01:17:50
mean it was the end of days and they're
01:17:51
like
01:17:52
i i don't know
01:17:53
it was a single biggest thing that i was
01:17:55
that i was taught in sex ed classes to
01:17:57
be afraid of
01:17:58
being really scared
01:18:00
at all and then the problem that it that
01:18:02
it created was like you know in
01:18:03
countries that had a large catholic
01:18:05
population
01:18:06
um you know the catholic church was so
01:18:08
you know uh
01:18:10
evil they had they were undecided
01:18:12
on um they were the opposite side they
01:18:15
told people in africa to not use condoms
01:18:18
when aids was rampant it was the biggest
01:18:21
evil second biggest evil the catholic
01:18:23
church did in modern history obviously
01:18:25
the first we know i have a contribution
01:18:27
to this segment oh god you know what
01:18:28
he's wrong
01:18:32
i know
01:18:33
your point is relationship look i i
01:18:36
remember how scared people were of aids
01:18:38
you know back in the 1980s when this
01:18:40
came up and i remember that there was a
01:18:43
head of the nih who even whipped up
01:18:45
people's fear hold on people's fear
01:18:48
by saying that even casual even casual
01:18:51
contact within the same household can
01:18:54
spread it
01:18:55
and you know who that happened
01:18:59
yes we know
01:19:00
dedicated his life to trying to solve
01:19:03
and reduce the suffering of saw for aids
01:19:05
and hiv no in the 1980s in the 1980s he
01:19:08
was the face of government indifference
01:19:10
towards aids and he spread fear and was
01:19:12
medically wrong about it go check the
01:19:14
records he was a screw-up then and he's
01:19:17
a screw-up
01:19:18
on it he worked tirelessly he didn't
01:19:20
work tirelessly on it jkl i think saks
01:19:22
is right in the sense that like what we
01:19:24
thought we knew back then turned out to
01:19:26
be wrong and i think that's a really
01:19:27
important point
01:19:29
you know particularly in science it's a
01:19:30
process of discovery what we thought we
01:19:33
knew back then turned out it was all a
01:19:35
hypothesis it's all a thesis until it's
01:19:37
proven or disproven and that's the case
01:19:39
read andrew sullivan i mean
01:19:41
you know fauci was absolutely the enemy
01:19:44
public enemy number one of the of the
01:19:47
game
01:19:48
who is it tony tony yeah well
01:19:51
it was attorney tony perkins there was
01:19:53
actually a debate that fauci was in
01:19:55
uh on aids where a gay actress literally
01:19:58
said to him i hate you and if you read
01:20:00
andrew sullivan's blog he will talk
01:20:02
about how he remembers back in the 1980s
01:20:04
that fauci was sort of public enemy
01:20:06
number one in the gay community because
01:20:08
of
01:20:09
his position on this during the reagan
01:20:10
administration and so it is a lot of
01:20:12
civil disobedience act up except
01:20:15
remember
01:20:16
and he responded by putting massive
01:20:18
resources into this so i think you know
01:20:20
if he was that's not listen
01:20:22
listen to andrew sullivan on this thing
01:20:24
he's
01:20:25
sullivan he is not that right
01:20:27
wait andrew sullivan is the reason why
01:20:29
more than any other public intellectual
01:20:31
why we have marriage equality today he
01:20:33
is number one he advocated for marriage
01:20:36
equality and in the new republic made
01:20:38
the case for it before anybody else and
01:20:40
popularized that argument yeah i'm a fan
01:20:41
of his writing uh let's not say don't
01:20:43
try and portray him as a far right
01:20:45
winger or whatever portray foul you're
01:20:46
you're going to fauci's intent and you
01:20:48
want to believe that she's an evil
01:20:50
person
01:20:51
i think you and many other people have
01:20:52
mysteriously forgotten who fauci really
01:20:55
is
01:20:56
okay you think i know the conspiracy you
01:20:57
think fauci's intent is to you know
01:21:00
cover up the uh
01:21:03
intentionally was working against uh
01:21:05
solving for hiv that's ridiculous do you
01:21:07
think i wouldn't say intentionally do
01:21:08
you think fauci had good intentions yeah
01:21:10
if you infer that sex do you think
01:21:12
factory had good intentions i don't i
01:21:13
don't really care about his intentions i
01:21:15
just want to look at his actions it's
01:21:16
amazing it's amazing
01:21:18
it's amazing to me that
01:21:21
a public official who was so wrong
01:21:25
back then in the 1980s 1990s on the
01:21:28
public health crisis of our time would
01:21:30
just be given a free pass and along
01:21:32
comes a new public health crisis the
01:21:33
last couple of years and he's been
01:21:35
completely wrong about that too so why
01:21:37
are you giving this guy a free passion i
01:21:38
don't get it hey
01:21:40
in a cloud of uncertainty in a time of
01:21:42
war do you think that leaders need to
01:21:44
show strong intent and clear signals or
01:21:47
do you think that they should be
01:21:48
wishy-washy because they don't know
01:21:49
enough
01:21:50
i think they should be right
01:21:53
and if they're trying the best with what
01:21:54
they have with the information they have
01:21:56
at the time
01:21:57
okay well yeah there's some forgiveness
01:21:59
for uh for making mistakes but when
01:22:01
you're constantly wrong maybe it's time
01:22:03
to get somebody else in there and look
01:22:05
but and falchi by the way fauci with
01:22:07
respect to code we talked about it
01:22:08
before 100
01:22:11
participated in a suppression
01:22:13
of the investigation into the origins of
01:22:15
kovid there was an active attempt to
01:22:17
suppress that come on you know that the
01:22:20
the foia emails show it
01:22:23
it's a good science segment
01:22:26
i do want to give a shout out to the
01:22:28
the researchers uh who actually did this
01:22:31
with this woman uh in new york it's
01:22:33
pretty
01:22:34
freaking incredible what's incredible is
01:22:35
that they did it with um
01:22:37
hiv patients who had blood cancer and it
01:22:39
was a really kind of like thoughtfully
01:22:41
designed experiment um incredibly
01:22:43
thoughtful yeah and it's been four years
01:22:44
so i mean this has been baking for a
01:22:46
long time by the way as i zoom out and
01:22:47
hear you guys talk about what hiv was
01:22:49
like you know back in the day and the
01:22:51
fear around it i i do think that 30 40
01:22:53
years from now given the tools we have
01:22:55
with induced stem cells and cell-based
01:22:58
therapies and there are hundreds of
01:22:59
cell-based therapies coming to market
01:23:00
over the next few years they're all in
01:23:02
late stage clinical trials as well as
01:23:03
gene editing i think hopefully and i'm
01:23:06
optimistic that one day we will look
01:23:07
back at cancer and aging in the same way
01:23:10
that we're talking about hiv today and
01:23:11
that both of those diseases can and will
01:23:14
be resolved with the tools that we're
01:23:15
developing through science and you know
01:23:17
there's there's going to be bumps along
01:23:19
the road but man i you know it's so
01:23:21
clear that he's going to go
01:23:23
look i think i think what freeberg just
01:23:24
said actually is really important and
01:23:27
inspiring and i think it's great and i
01:23:28
was kind of joking around with the
01:23:29
fouchy thing i didn't expect it to
01:23:31
become a tangent so i don't need to keep
01:23:33
going on where do you see him
01:23:36
in editing trying to change his position
01:23:37
no i'm not going to change anything
01:23:39
keep that whole segment i'm just saying
01:23:40
i didn't can you use could i do a
01:23:42
voiceover change you haven't become so
01:23:44
argumentative we wouldn't have spent
01:23:45
five minutes on it if i can correct your
01:23:47
incorrect position that she's
01:23:49
intentionally on-ramp please because i
01:23:50
gotta fly to europe go okay here we go
01:23:52
david sachs and paul graham have gotten
01:23:55
into it
01:23:56
uh it's a battle for the ages and the
01:23:59
stakes are so low the stakes are so high
01:24:02
and the animosity is so high because the
01:24:04
stakes are so low
01:24:05
uh here we go
01:24:08
wait before this uh does phil hellmuth
01:24:11
qualify this as a
01:24:12
billionaire battle or uh
01:24:18
literally
01:24:19
he revealed the billionaire if you
01:24:21
follow phil hellmuth's account it's
01:24:23
being d.a greatest being dog greatest on
01:24:26
twitter follow being d.a
01:24:28
greatest to get that fella no phil
01:24:31
hellmuth outed he on his twitter our
01:24:34
friend his new billionaire bestie is um
01:24:37
his bill which he stole bestie from me i
01:24:39
used to call everybody best day he just
01:24:40
co-opted it uh like he co-opted me
01:24:42
calling tremont the dictator but i'll
01:24:44
tell the dictator origin story later
01:24:46
is stan lee from doordash
01:24:48
stanley tang
01:24:50
co-founder chief product officer of
01:24:51
doordad great guy
01:24:53
really great homeless ladies truffle
01:24:56
exactly
01:24:58
we found it okay here we go so if you
01:25:00
can introduce them to paul graham go
01:25:02
ahead sex all right here here here's the
01:25:04
issue to pick what's your beef here we
01:25:06
go actually i did not seek out this beef
01:25:08
saks vendetta section of the pot no no
01:25:10
listen
01:25:19
any billionaires out there who want to
01:25:20
like debate like come waiting into my
01:25:22
tweets mark cuban didn't make it made a
01:25:24
big ass to himself i don't want to deter
01:25:27
these guys from from waiting in because
01:25:28
it's great here's what basically
01:25:30
happened is
01:25:31
i tweeted a video of all these
01:25:34
multi-millionaire celebrity hypocrites
01:25:36
partying massless at the super bowl and
01:25:39
then meanwhile the next day my three
01:25:41
kids have to go to school in california
01:25:43
wearing their masks
01:25:45
that is
01:25:46
ridiculous okay it makes no sense we all
01:25:50
know that okay any sane person knows
01:25:53
that that's what i tweeted about i don't
01:25:55
know why of all issues that was
01:25:57
triggering a pg but he had to come in
01:25:59
and say well they were all partying
01:26:00
outdoors it's like really
01:26:02
uh it looks to me like they're in a sky
01:26:04
box and if it has three walls and a
01:26:06
ceiling i call that a room uh but in any
01:26:08
event
01:26:09
that wasn't he was he was misinformed
01:26:11
because
01:26:13
the rule of the super bowl was that if
01:26:14
you were not eating and drinking anyone
01:26:16
under over the age of two have to be
01:26:18
wearing a mask
01:26:19
um so you know my point stands i just
01:26:22
want to err so here here's where things
01:26:24
kind of went south is um
01:26:27
is so then i tweeted uh blink twice you
01:26:30
know paul
01:26:31
and and here's the thing i wasn't
01:26:33
totally trying to be snarky with that
01:26:34
comment um here here's why i said that
01:26:37
is because explain what that means i
01:26:39
didn't understand that what does that
01:26:40
mean blink twice well it means like
01:26:42
you're a captor you're being held
01:26:44
kidnapped by these
01:26:45
concepts that you have to wear no you're
01:26:47
being held hostage by somebody and the
01:26:48
reason why i said that is because is is
01:26:51
look if if pg had just been some crazy
01:26:53
dumb person never would have said that
01:26:55
the fact is that pg is
01:26:57
smart he writes extremely well publishes
01:26:59
a lot of interesting things he's an
01:27:01
independent thinker
01:27:03
so it almost seemed to me like somebody
01:27:05
is holding him hostage here because how
01:27:06
can this really smart person be making
01:27:09
this case anyway
01:27:11
it kind of went south from there
01:27:14
so oh i i have no desire to continue
01:27:16
that
01:27:17
meanwhile kendall jenner wore north face
01:27:19
shoes to justin bieber's uh what yeah
01:27:22
can you believe dear she knows that
01:27:26
how did he do that gossip gossip gossip
01:27:28
all right so this has been
01:27:30
sax's corner for the week uh can we make
01:27:34
this a regular segment but
01:27:36
i'm making this segment
01:27:38
but i want to say i want to stay on the
01:27:40
main issue here which is
01:27:42
oh please let's do it every week but
01:27:44
yeah but look
01:27:46
am i wrong about this masked hypocrisy
01:27:49
that's going on how in the world are you
01:27:51
kids picture of sacks in the mess no no
01:27:53
no no sax in the match
01:27:55
i'll stop i want to air 100 support for
01:27:57
saks on this statement i totally agree
01:27:59
with you on the mask hypocrisy as well
01:28:01
as the mass mandates in schools i think
01:28:03
it's ridiculous
01:28:04
we've pivoted so far away from first
01:28:07
principle thinking on this stuff it's
01:28:08
nuts i totally agree with you completely
01:28:11
and um on this point on you wasting your
01:28:14
time fighting with people on twitter my
01:28:15
personal advice to you as a friend it's
01:28:17
just cut it out but do what you gotta do
01:28:19
buddy
01:28:20
but totally agree oh it's entertainment
01:28:22
all right everybody for the dictator
01:28:24
himself chamath palihapatia
01:28:27
man yeah david sachs and
01:28:31
the sultan of science if you see him out
01:28:34
and about ask for a selfie sultan of
01:28:37
science love selfies he does love you
01:28:39
boys bye we'll see you all next time on
01:28:41
the all-in pod
01:28:42
bye-bye love you besties bye-bye
01:28:46
let your winners ride
01:28:48
rain man
01:28:53
we open sources to the fans and they've
01:28:55
just gone crazy with it
01:28:59
[Music]
01:29:05
besties
01:29:08
[Music]
01:29:16
we should all just get a room and just
01:29:17
have one big huge orgy because they're
01:29:19
all just
01:29:20
like this like sexual tension that they
01:29:21
just need to release somehow
01:29:29
we need to get
01:29:31
back
01:29:39
i'm going on
01:29:41
[Music]