00:00:01
the driving force behind one of
00:00:03
America's most influential companies.
00:00:06
Record high today for Uber. 100% up last
00:00:08
year. Whimo and Uber have announced a
00:00:10
partnership. When you have a CEO that's
00:00:12
done what DAR has done, you set the bar
00:00:14
higher and higher.
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The impact we have on society is
00:00:17
significant. We hope to keep building on
00:00:19
that impact going forward and I'm quite
00:00:21
optimistic about what the future's going
00:00:23
to bring.
00:00:24
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome
00:00:27
Uber CEO Darra Kazer Shahi.
00:00:35
[Music]
00:00:41
Good see.
00:00:41
All right,
00:00:43
Dar, I wasn't sure if you were aware,
00:00:45
but I was an early investor in Uber.
00:00:49
You
00:00:49
I've heard you say it once or twice,
00:00:51
and I'm curious how my investment's
00:00:52
doing.
00:00:54
I don't know. Okay. Based on today,
00:00:56
today's looking pretty good. Um, so,
00:00:59
uh, autonomy is the discussion I think
00:01:02
everybody wants to have in the timeline.
00:01:04
How many partners
00:01:06
does Uber have in autonomy today?
00:01:10
So, we have over 20 partners across both
00:01:14
mobility and the delivery business. Uh,
00:01:17
I'd say mobility now is in the field as
00:01:20
we speak. Obviously, we've got a
00:01:21
partnership with Whimo, who is uh I
00:01:24
think the best of the best in Atlanta
00:01:26
and Austin. Uh but there are a number of
00:01:29
other players that we are partnered
00:01:32
with. A number of Chinese players,
00:01:33
Autonomy in China is uh hitting the big
00:01:36
time and a lot of these companies that
00:01:38
want to expand outside of China, we're
00:01:39
partnering with. And then in the US, uh
00:01:43
even in in the second half of this year,
00:01:46
uh we will have a couple of partnerships
00:01:48
kind of hit the road in Texas. uh and
00:01:50
then in Europe and the rest of the
00:01:52
world. So you will see we've announced a
00:01:54
bunch of partnerships. We're doing a ton
00:01:55
of work with these partners. You'll see
00:01:57
these cars hit the road with safety
00:01:59
drivers eventually and the safety
00:02:00
drivers will come out this year and
00:02:02
especially going into next year. We're
00:02:04
going to have significant number of cars
00:02:05
on the road.
00:02:06
How many people in China have level four
00:02:09
no safety driver today? And what's your
00:02:12
assessment of those companies and their
00:02:16
safety record? You know, it's a
00:02:17
different market obviously. So there are
00:02:20
uh bu uh wery pony are all on the road
00:02:25
today. No safety driver. We are partners
00:02:27
with all of them. Their capabilities are
00:02:30
amazing. You can imagine driving in
00:02:32
China in these big cities is quite a
00:02:35
complex uh undertaking. Uh they take
00:02:38
safety just as seriously as uh the
00:02:41
western companies do. So I think their
00:02:43
safety record is excellent. Ultimately,
00:02:45
we think autonomous can be both
00:02:48
superhuman in terms of safety and can
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save uh millions of lives over the
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course of time on the road and over a
00:02:56
period of time as the cost of especially
00:02:59
the hardware stack comes down. We think
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that it can bring the cost of mobility
00:03:03
down and make mobility on demand
00:03:06
available to many many more people than
00:03:08
it is now. So, it's going to be a very
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big kind of market expander for us. So
00:03:12
that was the debate, Dar, that maybe
00:03:14
kind of exploded a little bit on X
00:03:16
between you and Elon where you guys I
00:03:18
mean very respectfully just debating the
00:03:20
pros and the cons. Maybe just set it up
00:03:22
for the folks in the audience the
00:03:23
difference between um Elon's approach
00:03:26
and the Whimo approach and maybe the the
00:03:28
relative pros and cons as you see it.
00:03:31
Yeah. I mean I think they're the ones
00:03:33
building the cars. So I'm to some extent
00:03:36
a very very very interested bystander.
00:03:38
But but the way that that I put it is um
00:03:41
Elon's approach
00:03:44
uh depends on excellent software
00:03:48
right
00:03:48
to do a bunch of the heavy lifting in
00:03:51
that there are some you know early on
00:03:53
whenever you're building product there
00:03:55
may be some cheat codes that you
00:03:57
undertake. So for example, you could
00:03:59
call it uh cheat codes or you know good
00:04:02
engineering. Some of the things you see
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in early systems is one is uh camera uh
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radar LAR. So multiple
00:04:10
sensors
00:04:11
uh sensors redundancy on the sensor
00:04:13
stack to make sure that your perception
00:04:15
algos are seeing the world as it really
00:04:19
is. Uh Elon is doing camera only. Uh
00:04:23
tougher on the software, cheaper for the
00:04:25
hardware. Okay. Second, I would say big
00:04:28
difference is many of the players use HD
00:04:30
maps. And what HD maps do is is
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essentially you map out an area so that
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it's much easier for the software to
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determine what are permanent aspects of
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a certain view. You know, the uh the
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lines on the road, uh traffic lights,
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etc. Because of the HD maps, it's very
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very easy for that piece of software to
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determine what's permanent and then
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what's impermanent, vehicles, people,
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etc. So, it makes the job of the
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software much easier to figure out
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what's going on and then and then
00:05:04
determine what to do. Uh Elon's approach
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doesn't depend on HD maps. Uh and again,
00:05:10
it makes a Java solver harder. And then
00:05:12
the other I would say significant
00:05:16
um uh factor is the compute. So when you
00:05:19
look at the compute and many of the
00:05:21
other players the compute in terms of
00:05:22
flops and memory etc in the back of the
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card uh car is pretty expensive pretty
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extensive
00:05:29
uh and I think Tesla's approach is with
00:05:34
a much tighter compute stack. Do you see
00:05:36
a world where you try to pour your
00:05:39
distribution into all those solutions
00:05:41
assuming that everybody's amendable to
00:05:43
working with you and it meets your
00:05:45
threshold for what you're looking for?
00:05:46
Yeah, I think safety or cost or
00:05:48
exactly I'd say safety comes number one.
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So we have a certain safety case that we
00:05:53
want to make sure that our partners
00:05:54
adhere to or exceed
00:05:56
and sorry just is that an eval or is
00:05:58
that like is that certain rates that
00:06:00
they have to publish to you or how do
00:06:02
they demonstrate to you? It's it's the
00:06:04
technical approach and the eval
00:06:06
together. And listen, it is a dialogue,
00:06:08
right? Because different people take
00:06:09
different approaches to safety. We want
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to make sure that showing up on the Uber
00:06:14
platform, it is as safe as it can be.
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And our def definition of safety is
00:06:19
multiple site times safer than a human
00:06:21
being, which is achievable. Whimo is
00:06:23
showing that it's achievable. Many of
00:06:25
the Chinese players are showing that
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that it's achievable as well. So if it
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meets our safety criteria and the
00:06:33
economics are attractive and the
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economics as the cost of hardware comes
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down, you know, LAR was 20 30,000 bucks
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a pop like 5 6 years ago. Now solid
00:06:44
state LAR is 300 to 500 bucks a pop. So
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the cost of hardware is coming way down.
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It is going to need to continue to come
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down because these cars are very
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expensive. Then we'll do business with
00:06:55
them. We we want to be the platform and
00:06:57
and we want to essentially help the
00:07:00
entire AV ecosystem thrive and we think
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there's enough economics
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uh for the network player to have a
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great business and uh the software
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providers and the vehicle owners to have
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a great business. And then obviously
00:07:15
there's fleet operations in terms of
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housing the cars, recharging the cars,
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you know, all of the um kind of in the
00:07:24
world uh work that's necessary as well.
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When you you're going to get to a
00:07:28
tipping point, I'm going to assume in
00:07:31
driver miles, let's say, where one of
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the most interesting things that I've
00:07:35
thought of is
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could you tell a city how it should
00:07:39
actually be designed for optimal
00:07:42
traffic? So we work I wouldn't say for
00:07:47
optimal traffic
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I think theoretically it's possible but
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you know
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something a Google could there are lots
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of other players
00:07:56
uh who can help with that
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but we're certainly helping cities in
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terms of uh where you should put
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charging infrastructure for example uh
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parking drop offs etc uh to help traffic
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flows I think we can be a partner for
00:08:10
cities and we do have a small operation
00:08:12
where essentially we offer data a for
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free for cities to embark on city
00:08:16
planning so to speak.
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Do they take it? They don't.
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Some do. Some do. Some of the more
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sophisticated cities take it, but I
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wouldn't call it a big part of our
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business.
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So, Dar, I want to ask you about the uh
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the business model impact of um of
00:08:30
basically robo taxis or self-driving. In
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the old world, um, uh, Uber's network
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effect was a marketplace effect where
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you connected drivers and riders. And if
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you had the most geographic density in
00:08:45
an area, then you could promise riders
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faster pickups and the drivers got
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higher utilization. And that was a very
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powerful network effect. But we're
00:08:53
moving into a new world where anyone who
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has a fleet of self-driving cars in
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theory could just make them available to
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the public and start competing. How do
00:09:02
you see that impacting your mode? And
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and do you have to go from being an
00:09:06
asset light business to now owning all
00:09:09
these these cars and deploying them? And
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is that a good thing or a bad thing for
00:09:12
your business?
00:09:13
So this I think that the same economics
00:09:15
apply, right? Which is if we have uh
00:09:19
that fleet owner um is not going to have
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as many vehicles available in a certain
00:09:25
market than let's say a network uh like
00:09:27
ours and we will have a hybrid network.
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We're going to have humans and
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autonomous cars together and that's
00:09:32
going to continue for a while. You know,
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the the autonomous the machines are
00:09:36
going to aren't going to replace all
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humans at least for the f for Zipil
00:09:40
future. So for us um if you're part of
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our network, you are going to get more
00:09:47
requests than the player who's doing a
00:09:48
standalone because we already have the
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demand. The request is going to come
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from much closer. So instead of, you
00:09:54
know, a pickup who's 15 minutes away for
00:09:56
a 10-minute ride, you're going to get a
00:09:58
pickup that's 3 minutes away for a
00:10:00
10-minute ride. So the utilization in
00:10:02
terms of the revenue generating miles as
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a percentage of total miles driven is
00:10:08
much much higher on on our network. So
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the player that you know if you have
00:10:14
fleet player A who's going direct
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standalone fleet player B who's working
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with us fleet player B will have much
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more business will have many more miles
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that are that are creating revenue as a
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percentage of the total miles driven and
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as a result each of their cars are going
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to get much more revenue per car per day
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than than the fleet player who isn't
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working with us. So I mean that
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ultimately is you know even if you if
00:10:39
you think about Uber Eats right there's
00:10:41
this drama which is hey do you go direct
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only or do you work with a marketplace
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and the fact is every major food player
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McDonald's has a direct channel but they
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have a box and they want that box to
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create as much revenue as possible so
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they have a direct channel and they work
00:11:00
through our marketplace Door Dash
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marketplace other marketplaces as well
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because that's how you drive
00:11:05
utilization.
00:11:06
And so I think that most of these
00:11:08
players, there are going to be some
00:11:10
players like a Whimo, like a Tesla who
00:11:12
can build their direct channel, but we
00:11:15
think if they want to drive maximum
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economics out of these really expensive
00:11:19
cars for now, they're going to also want
00:11:21
to work with us.
00:11:22
Do you think you will need to buy and
00:11:25
deploy your own fleets or can you rely
00:11:27
purely on third party fleet owners? So I
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think that um there's going to
00:11:33
ultimately if you look at the end state
00:11:35
I think all of these cars are going to
00:11:36
be financable. So if you look again in
00:11:38
the hotel business I used to be in the
00:11:40
travel business a Hilton or a Marriott
00:11:42
who's the brand doesn't own any of their
00:11:45
hotels. Those hotels are owned by
00:11:46
financial only players. And I think 10
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years down the line you know there are
00:11:51
these things called REITs real estate
00:11:52
investment trusts. You're going to have
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fleets. You're going to have financial
00:11:56
owners that own big fleets of cars that
00:12:00
are on our network, maybe on other
00:12:02
networks.
00:12:02
The new the new enterprise kind of a
00:12:04
thing.
00:12:04
I'd say it's going to be more financial
00:12:06
players. So, it's not, you know, Hertz
00:12:07
and uh enterprise are operators. These
00:12:10
these are going to be like pure stones
00:12:12
of of the world and they own fleets and
00:12:14
they're just trying to monetize those
00:12:15
fleets as much as possible. That's the
00:12:18
end state. Between now and the end
00:12:20
state, we will take balance sheet risk
00:12:22
because we can sign up. We know exactly
00:12:25
how much revenue a car can produce in
00:12:28
said market because that because cars
00:12:31
are already producing revenue. So we can
00:12:32
sign up for the revenue. We will prove
00:12:34
out the business model. We'll use our
00:12:36
business we'll use our balance sheet to
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prove out the business model and then at
00:12:41
some point the whole thing is going to
00:12:42
get financialized and we'll be able to
00:12:44
take it off balance sheet.
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Is is Whimo willing to work with you?
00:12:48
actually Whimo is working with us now in
00:12:50
Austin and Atlanta.
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Okay.
00:12:52
So, in Austin, Atlanta, if you're using
00:12:54
Uber, uh you can be picked up uh with a
00:12:57
Whimo. Our customers love it.
00:13:00
Uh is it the driverless aspect of it
00:13:02
that they love or
00:13:04
you know, they're so I think I think one
00:13:07
is they're new cars. They're really nice
00:13:09
cars.
00:13:09
Yeah.
00:13:10
Um it's kind of freaking cool.
00:13:12
Yeah.
00:13:13
Uh and you do have privacy in that car
00:13:16
as well. So I think the combination of
00:13:18
it works out really well. We see
00:13:20
customers who experience the product,
00:13:22
they rate it really high highly, they
00:13:25
use it again. Uh and so it's just it's
00:13:27
just an absolute
00:13:29
dynamic product.
00:13:31
So we've we've mostly only spoken about
00:13:33
the XY axis
00:13:35
and we have a couple of our friends
00:13:37
who've built businesses that are, you
00:13:38
know, trying to launch these EV tall
00:13:40
businesses,
00:13:41
some of our other friends who are
00:13:42
experimenting with small drone delivery.
00:13:45
tell us where all of those things play
00:13:46
in your infrastructure going forward.
00:13:48
So we're we're absolutely believer in uh
00:13:51
EV tall. We're an investor in Joby uh
00:13:54
and we are going to work with them as
00:13:56
those vehicles become available. We know
00:13:58
that there are some other vehicles but I
00:14:00
think that the kind of Z uh axis if you
00:14:04
if you want to call that makes a ton of
00:14:06
sense. Listen in cities of the world
00:14:09
essentially they have built in the third
00:14:11
dimension because there's only so much
00:14:13
that you can expand you know in the x
00:14:15
and y dimension. So businesses have
00:14:18
expanded in third dimension uh
00:14:20
residences have expanded in the third
00:14:22
dimension but our transportation
00:14:24
uh uh infrastructure has only expanded
00:14:27
in two dimensions.
00:14:28
So it's no wonder that traffic just
00:14:30
keeps getting worse and worse and worse
00:14:32
because that third dimension is isn't
00:14:34
available. So we are absolutely
00:14:36
believers in uh both EV talls uh and
00:14:41
drone delivery. Now I think on the
00:14:43
delivery side that there are two areas
00:14:46
that we're working on. One is sidewalk
00:14:48
robots. It's easier tech to develop.
00:14:52
Explain what that is. A sidewalk robot.
00:14:53
So sidewalk robots um there are some of
00:14:55
them in LA and Santa Monica. They are
00:14:59
autonomous vehicles that uh drive on the
00:15:03
sidewalks. They drive pretty slowly.
00:15:05
They're very, very safe. Uh they look
00:15:08
kind of cute. Uh and they're appropriate
00:15:10
for deliveries that are a mile or less
00:15:14
uh long. So deliveries in a tight space.
00:15:17
And so there's a certain addressable
00:15:19
market for us in deliveries where those
00:15:21
sidewalk robots work. And we're working
00:15:22
with Serve, Cardan, and number of other
00:15:25
players in the US, in Japan, in a number
00:15:27
of other markets. Then on the other side
00:15:30
is drone delivery. and drone delivery is
00:15:32
appropriate for markets where, you know,
00:15:35
they're more spread out, suburban, no
00:15:37
highrises, etc. Those two together we
00:15:40
think can cover 50 plus% of our delivery
00:15:44
uh TAM so to speak. But then there's
00:15:47
another 50% that we're going to have to
00:15:48
work on in terms of the first and the
00:15:50
last mile, you know, coming out of the
00:15:52
restaurant and then getting the the food
00:15:56
into your apartment as well. Humans take
00:15:58
care of their own first and last mile,
00:16:00
but you need something to take care of
00:16:02
the first and last mile of the food.
00:16:04
That's where the challenge is going to
00:16:05
come in. And we're working with a number
00:16:07
of players to see how we can get that
00:16:09
first and last mile for food.
00:16:10
I want to talk to you for a minute, if I
00:16:12
may, about the balance sheet. Um, one of
00:16:14
the great,
00:16:15
you know, sort of early uh insights we
00:16:18
had at Uber was around profitability and
00:16:22
the press and the narrative was, "Oh,
00:16:24
Uber could never be profitable." And I
00:16:26
would talk to TK about it and and and
00:16:29
William and all the Josh in New York and
00:16:31
they're like, "Yeah, we could flip it at
00:16:33
any moment in time to $2 more a ride. We
00:16:35
would lose no rides and it would be
00:16:36
wildly profitable." And in fact, under
00:16:38
your stewardship, Uber has become a
00:16:40
money printing machine to the point at
00:16:42
which you announced a $20 billion stock
00:16:44
buyback.
00:16:45
Yes.
00:16:46
And I saw it and I said, "Wow, this is
00:16:47
just incredible." However,
00:16:49
did you tweet about it by chance?
00:16:51
I might have. I might once in a while
00:16:52
I'll retweet you and and give you a
00:16:54
little shine. Um, but I did have this
00:16:57
thought that
00:16:59
um, and I had Chris from Neuro on the
00:17:01
program and you have this great
00:17:02
partnership to put 20,000 Lucids on the
00:17:05
road. Um,
00:17:06
what wrong podcast, but keep going.
00:17:09
The other podcast. Um,
00:17:11
and so I'm wondering how you think about
00:17:13
the war chest, the money printing
00:17:15
machine and deployment of that asset.
00:17:17
How do you decide $20 billion stock
00:17:19
buyback versus putting 300 million into
00:17:22
Nuro or we had Travis on the podcast and
00:17:25
he said um he's had many opportunities
00:17:27
to look at things like Pony which has
00:17:29
been in the press and um it would be
00:17:32
pretty great to have the original
00:17:34
founder maybe I don't know you've got a
00:17:36
couple of billion laying around and
00:17:38
maybe help him have Pony come to the
00:17:40
west so how do you think about deploying
00:17:42
that capital in order to you know
00:17:45
continue to grow from Where are we at?
00:17:47
1% of rides globally are ride sharing
00:17:49
approximately
00:17:50
a little more, but it's between 1 and
00:17:51
2%. It's a very low number.
00:17:53
It's clear it's going to go to 20 with
00:17:54
autonomy. And so if we all believe that
00:17:56
and that's obvious,
00:17:58
is that the best use of the capital? How
00:18:00
do you make that decision?
00:18:02
So I I think the good news for us is
00:18:04
it's not either or. We can walk and chew
00:18:06
gum at the same time. Uh in the past 12
00:18:10
months, we've had over 8.5 billion of
00:18:12
cash flow. the business is growing you
00:18:14
know top line 18% bottom line 35%. So
00:18:18
that cash flow is going to grow by a lot
00:18:21
over the next 3 to 5 years and we
00:18:24
announced the 20 billion buyback because
00:18:26
in looking forward to areas in which we
00:18:30
could invest aggressively for example in
00:18:33
AV because we should because it's an
00:18:35
enormous opportunity whether it's
00:18:37
vehicles or fleets etc. We are very
00:18:41
comfortable that we've got enough uh
00:18:42
capital to be super aggressive there
00:18:44
appropriately and at the same time buy
00:18:47
back our stock. There's a great company
00:18:48
we know of. Uh management team can get a
00:18:51
little better but they're okay and we
00:18:52
think it's a great deal. So it's not
00:18:54
it's not an either or. It's it's it's an
00:18:56
and for us and we're lucky to be in that
00:18:58
position at this point.
00:18:59
You um have a very big business in Uber
00:19:01
Eatats. Um
00:19:02
it competes with folks like Door Dash.
00:19:05
Mhm.
00:19:05
When Travis was on the pod a few weeks
00:19:08
ago, maybe a month ago,
00:19:10
he he talked about sort of the
00:19:12
robotization of food and all of that.
00:19:14
Can you just talk to us about your
00:19:16
vision of where all of that stuff goes
00:19:18
to? And
00:19:18
so, we're we actually work with Travis
00:19:21
uh and his cloud kitchens business. He's
00:19:23
also built a a restaurant tech business
00:19:26
in in Otter as well. And I do think that
00:19:30
you are, you know, any food business
00:19:34
that is not deep in delivery is going to
00:19:36
lose share period for the foreseeable
00:19:39
future. So every single player, food
00:19:42
player, grocery player, even now retail
00:19:45
player has to get into delivery and has
00:19:47
to get into on demand delivery.
00:19:48
Otherwise, they're kind of missing the
00:19:51
most attractive segment of of consumers
00:19:53
out there. Uh and I think as the cost of
00:19:57
labor is going up um all of these
00:20:00
businesses are building are uh investing
00:20:03
increasingly in roboticization. It's not
00:20:05
something that we are getting into but
00:20:08
as more food healthy food delicious food
00:20:12
becomes more available lower prices then
00:20:15
our delivery business kind of will
00:20:16
benefit a lot. I'm hearing consistently
00:20:18
from you and you can just tell me if
00:20:20
this this is wrong that you are becoming
00:20:22
increasingly an asset light highly
00:20:25
liquid distribution network like you
00:20:27
have this incredible network effect. You
00:20:28
have these hundreds of millions maybe
00:20:30
approaching a billion users and you can
00:20:33
just pour them into all of these things.
00:20:35
We we are essentially we bring demand to
00:20:39
the assets that are driving the movement
00:20:42
of people and things and food and
00:20:44
grocery and these are all asset heavy
00:20:46
businesses. So the next incremental
00:20:49
piece of demand that comes from our
00:20:50
network is incredibly valuable for them
00:20:53
and we can do so staying largely capital
00:20:56
light at the same time to the extent
00:20:57
that I can use my capital to invest in
00:20:59
the AV ecosystem or fleets etc. We can
00:21:03
also do that.
00:21:04
There's one company that wants to go on
00:21:06
go on its own. A friend of ours runs it.
00:21:09
Um I'm think that you probably have had
00:21:13
some conversations obviously publicly
00:21:15
you have. What's the best pitch to Elon
00:21:18
to put a 100,000 robo taxis into the
00:21:21
Uber fleet while still doing his own
00:21:23
because his app is doing spectacularly
00:21:25
well and the and the pilots are doing
00:21:26
well so he'll obviously figure it out.
00:21:28
But what's your best pitch to him to
00:21:30
joining the Uber network? Uh I think
00:21:31
listen the the pitch is simple which is
00:21:33
if you're looking to maximize the
00:21:35
revenue of those robo taxis
00:21:37
today
00:21:38
uh today we are your ticket to the
00:21:40
maximization of that revenue to the
00:21:42
extent that you're looking to have these
00:21:45
fleets owned by people you know kind of
00:21:46
the digital shepherds which is is an
00:21:49
amazing vision that that Elon has to the
00:21:52
extent that those uh owners are not able
00:21:56
to monetize their assets on the Uber
00:21:58
network they will under monetize and if
00:22:00
there's a competitor who is offering
00:22:03
those vehicles to be on the Uber
00:22:05
network, the monetization of those
00:22:06
vehicles are going to be superior and
00:22:08
those digital shepherds are going to go
00:22:09
elsewhere. So I think that is the pitch
00:22:12
and again Elon is you know he kind of
00:22:14
believes in full stack.
00:22:16
Yes. um and he's proven it and and I
00:22:19
think that this market is large enough
00:22:21
for there to be multiple winners but in
00:22:23
the end to the extent that you know we
00:22:25
would love to partner with them
00:22:27
uh but at this point they're looking to
00:22:28
go it alone and I think the market is
00:22:30
large enough to carry a number of
00:22:32
winners in this
00:22:32
I see a tough question about uh humans I
00:22:36
was talking to Will Barnes who ran um
00:22:38
originally in Los Angeles and then half
00:22:40
of the country for for Travis
00:22:42
and uh Will Barnes had a pretty amazing
00:22:44
insight which Because in the early days,
00:22:47
we had humans protesting humans
00:22:51
competing for, you know, the taxi
00:22:53
drivers versus the ride share drivers.
00:22:55
Um, in China, in Wuhan, in fact, there's
00:22:58
been a lot of civil unrest. And they're
00:23:00
talking about limiting the number of
00:23:02
licenses for self-driving cars because
00:23:04
of the disruption that would happen if
00:23:05
young men who have those jobs are not
00:23:07
able to have a job. And we saw the
00:23:10
Whimos get called to their death here in
00:23:12
Los Angeles. And that was a pretty clear
00:23:15
message as well. How do you think about
00:23:18
that group of people losing their jobs?
00:23:20
These drivers who built the Uber
00:23:21
network, who built Lyft, who built Door
00:23:23
Dash and China's overwhelming concern
00:23:26
about this um because these are robots
00:23:29
taking human jobs and there's an you
00:23:31
know there there's a lot of discussion
00:23:32
about this and I think maybe in the tech
00:23:33
industry we don't talk about it headon.
00:23:35
I think listen this is it's a big issue
00:23:38
for AI in general and uh job
00:23:41
displacement. You see it with younger
00:23:43
graduates as well. I think for us at
00:23:45
least for the next 5 years uh the number
00:23:49
of robot cars coming onto the platform
00:23:52
are not going to be displacing people
00:23:54
because the platform is just growing so
00:23:56
quickly that we can very easily take
00:23:58
that take that demand and and there is a
00:24:01
natural turnover of our driver base. So
00:24:04
in a market like in Austin uh or other
00:24:07
markets in which we're launching uh uh
00:24:10
autonomous we will turn down the driver
00:24:13
recruitment uh machine so the robots can
00:24:16
come in and the drivers who are
00:24:18
currently driving in the platform can
00:24:20
make as much money. So Austin drivers
00:24:21
now are making as much or more money
00:24:24
than they were before we introduced
00:24:26
Whimo. So I think for the next 5 to
00:24:28
seven years we're we're going to have
00:24:30
more human drivers and delivery people
00:24:32
just because we're going so quickly. But
00:24:34
I think you know 10 to 15 years from now
00:24:37
this is going to be a real issue. And
00:24:39
Jason I don't have a neat answer for it.
00:24:41
Now we're finding like other kinds of
00:24:43
work. We've got uh drivers and couriers
00:24:46
uh you know uh labeling AI labels and
00:24:49
looking uh you know uh we have a whole
00:24:52
Uber AI solutions business. So we're
00:24:55
essentially one way to look at Uber is
00:24:58
we are a platform for work and
00:25:00
transportation is the first kind of work
00:25:02
and now we're expanding into other kinds
00:25:04
of ondemand work as well to uh be able
00:25:08
to adjust the kind of work available to
00:25:11
people who uh want to earn our own
00:25:12
platform. But I think longterm this is a
00:25:15
big big societal question that we're
00:25:17
going to have to struggle with and lots
00:25:18
of others are going to struggle with
00:25:19
too.
00:25:20
Absolutely.
00:25:21
All right. Thank you very much.
00:25:23
Thank you. really appreciate it.
00:25:27
Great.
00:25:30
Crushed it. Thank you, my brother.
