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could you do me a quick favor if you're listening to this please hit the follow or subscribe button it helps more than you know and we invite subscribers in
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every month to watch the show in person basically that documentary became my own therapy she said he's gone
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still such a weird thing that people don't want to talk about but yet is the biggest killer in men our age roman camp
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is truly remarkable and deeply inspiring it's all about creating
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tools you know in our brain to learn how to deal with these issues your brain becomes mike tyson and is just beating
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you up and you've not had one boxing lesson in your life so you just can't do anything you're just taking it if you had told me 10 years ago that would be
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my job and that's what people know me for i honestly would not even know where that would have even started i'm pleased
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that i've got a good core friend group around me i'm glad that i've got my parents around me i'm glad that i've gone out there and i've taught myself
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the tools that i need to go and fight mike tyson in there and and be able to go up against him and that's why i feel passionate to be
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able to go and do that for kids now without further ado i'm stephen bartlett and this is the diary of a ceo i hope
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nobody's listening but if you are then please keep this to yourself
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[Music]
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roman hello what were you like as a kid tell me as a kid i was
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i'd say verging on um verging on attention seeker
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and yeah always just performing i guess i loved uh mimicking and like and doing
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impressions and things like that like when i first realized that i could do impressions i would do a non-stop and i would i
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would go home i'd watch my teachers and i'd say to my parents oh this is what my teacher did today and i wouldn't just say what they said i would
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perform it for them how they did it so i think i was
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very much so like a high-energy kid
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i would say verging on an adhd kind of assumption but um
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it was definitely a big change kind of when i went through my teenage years brothers and sisters
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older sister 32 [Music] very different from you
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yeah but to be honest like she yeah she is to be honest she she kind of she's
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someone that her name's harley harley moon one word very pretentious parents
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basically doesn't necessarily mean anything i think my parents were
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must have been slightly intoxicated after after the birth and it was a full moon so they
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named her harley moon but kids with harley moon and roman at that time were a little bit strange
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so yeah just no greater meaning other than the very pretentious parents but um yeah she
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she's she's an amazing kind of person i i got my work ethic from her from your sister
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from my sister yeah my mom and my dad are are really supportive and and they're always
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like you know there in terms of like anything i do is great they're loving it i couldn't ask for
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better parents but harley was the first person i knew that she went out at 15 and straight away 14
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whatever it was was like i need to get saturday job straight away like she was the one doing it like she wanted to do
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it she was asking my parents when can she go and do it and i used to be quite there's part of me that was a bit jealous of that
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because she kind of had this like maturity quite early on where she was making money and she went
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out there and she became a portrait photographer and then a big celebrity portrait photographer and was
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being hugely successful so she was that person that i was like i need to keep up basically
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when you say i need to keep up basically a lot of the stuff that i read about you and your relationship with your dad in
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particular um there was some it felt like from reading what i read that there
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were some issues with you feeling um i guess not good enough because of his because of the fact that he had been
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so successful in his career is that accurate um
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no yes and no because to be honest i'm so again i'm so lucky
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because the parents that i have are so supportive of what i want to do and it's the same way however they've parented me
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is the same way i want to be with my children you know i'm a massive family person i believe that everything i'm doing now is for is for my family and to
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create better people um but i think with my dad and my mum in
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that in that respect you know my mum was part of the first group uh to ever um perform in asia do you know
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what i mean like in terms of wham and pepsi and shirley was insane you know my dad part of spandau and acting career
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and all these types of things i'm insanely proud of that so for me to then say i'm not good
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enough for it or could never better it puts a downer on those things i think so
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i put it kind of in separate boxes i'm not trying to emulate them because in my head they will always be
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my heroes i sat here with um eddie hearn and a lot of people like uma from from
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he runs pretty thing.com and his dad obviously runs boohoo.com which is yeah you know the founders and that they they
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often spoke to that feeling of when you've got successful parents it can feel like a there can be thoughts that
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creep in that make you think um often illogically especially in the case
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of all those individuals i've described that you've got you've got like a you know a mountain to emulate all this you
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know there's pressure yeah but that's that's society like like i i always use
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this as an example it's like you know you look at um you look at any any famous kid like that there is
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me myself being a an offspring of someone who is famous two people that are famous i will still look at you know
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brooklyn beckham and see him getting a scholarship for a photographer thing and go ah but he's got like because of his dad and i'll catch myself doing that and
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then but that's a normal thing to feel that's a normal thing to feel i'm sure he hasn't i'm sure he's got great talents but i i fully understand why
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people would look at me and go oh he's got to where he is because of his dad let me tell you at the beginning i asked
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my dad hook me up like help me out and he couldn't like genuinely like that
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because of what i wanted to do was different but i would say with with my dad it's never it's never the pressure and with
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my mum it's never the pressure of how well you're doing and like you know tick this off take this off look what i've
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done you've got to do this this this this this it's not that the hardest thing with my old man and my mom for
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that matter is the public perception of them is
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how it is which is they are so nice and like there are these amazing people i always feel like for for me and my
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sister there's more of a pressure for me to be able to have a good relationship and a wife the the in the way that my
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dad has that for me is more of a pressure than anything to do with work the relationship that they have weighs
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massively on me because i don't want to ever go through a divorce i don't want to ever you know go through problems because they never did
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so when people ask me that question i'd rather like i'd do anything to have their
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relationship over their career yeah yeah when you were that age say like 14 15 when you were thinking about what you
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wanted to be when you grew up what was your aspirations at that point um uh kind of
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i signed the record i signed a a record deal at 15.
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um which came through in such a weird way like like it was like
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meeting people and someone's saying oh would you would you want to try and do would you want to try and do songwriting and i'd have been interested in it and
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i've worked with a few people worked in management companies as a saturday job and then they were like
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yeah cool let's do it and i signed a development deal with universal music which basically means you're
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the label's [ __ ] right where you'll be a part of any project that they want you to be a part of
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so they they basically own any output that you have and what you say you can do
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i mean you got paid at 15 it was okay and look at the same time i was being
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able to sit in meetings with people who are now heads of labels and and you know meet all these people and kind of grasp
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an understanding it's definitely helped with me now having you know interviewed so many artists in terms of what they're
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going through because i've witnessed some form of that and i did that for
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three years about three years from when i was 15 to 18. hey listen when when i signed up i signed a deal at 15 and then
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i went in to do my gcses no wonder they're bad at my gcses i couldn't care less i i literally i walked into some of my
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gcses i walked in the room signed my name and walked out i got you in maths because of my name
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like like i was distracted at that age and i kind of guess i knew i didn't know exactly what it was
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but i knew that world was normal to me and and like the music world was normal to me
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the film world was normal to me because i've grown up in it and i guess that's why i wanted to do it
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it's never been anything to do with fame in our house do you know what i mean
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like the idea of what you want to do when you're older was never attached to oh well i'll be really famous if i do that
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yeah what was your first sort of real real job then real job uh
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yeah so no so i i basically i i did i did universal for a while and and worked
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with you know in a band and in bands and projects or whatever right and
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i then reached a point where that all ended like really abruptly partly because i just couldn't do it
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anymore and it was a lot i felt like it was a lot to take in and i remember just sitting with my mom and just like
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i was like i must be 18 and i was just crying i was just like i just i can't be a part of this like this is
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too much like the expectation on young kids in the music industry is a lot what was what was the well it's like
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it's a lot you're putting in your own emotional being into you know music or into you
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know this this kind of like thing i guess the only way i can describe it is how you know kids must feel if they're
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young footballers and they're trying to make it and they get cut from teams it's a lot of emotion going up and down
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and up and down you know you win at one point and then the loss is so hard and when you're going through puberty imagine that at the same time you don't
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know how to handle that and what were they trying to make you into a songwriter no so i was i was part of bands
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yeah yeah yeah they put me in bandsaw i was you know bass playing or or it was like oh would you want to write a song for other people do you want to do this
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this and that and don't get me wrong it was an amazing experience and one that i would still do now 100
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i think that again it's it's everything that i've done obviously makes me the person that
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i am now and gives me the ability to do what i do now um and i i i just at that point had just
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reached a moment where i was like i can't do it anymore so and then i said to my mom i was like i was like i need to do something that is nowhere near
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media and i'm just gonna go and get a regular job every day and i ended up getting a job basically just cleaning
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toilets and cleaning equipment in a gym near me and i did that for about a year and a
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half and it was horrible [ __ ] you know a year and a half is it
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it was it was it wasn't great it wasn't great i went out there i did i got all the what was it pt qualifications and
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all that sort of stuff so that i could work in a in a gym but literally it's just glorified toilet
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cleaner essentially like i was just cleaning cleaning running machines for about a year and a half and then during
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that time i kind of realized that my creative side was like really struggling
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in terms of like i couldn't i've always wanted to create and do stuff so i knew how to like edit
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um film and i knew how to film as well and so
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with my money from working at the gym i went out bought dslr started filming stuff and filming for friends and like
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[Music] rappers and like grime music videos and things like
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that just to make some extra cash and at the same time like on the weekends i'd just make my own stuff and i'd put it on
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youtube and i'd just have fun with it you know i knew that world was
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a world because i was i'd come from a school where
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i sat my classmate was ksi but that in that moment you're like
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so i know that's possible and i think that's something that's so important for so many people when they know it's possible
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and that's the problem with you know sometimes that's where i think people get stuck in
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well worst case scenario worst case to say is a class system because they don't know
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what you can do and what your potential could go to yeah um but you know i'd seen jj do it i'd see
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time and do it and all those types of kids and i was like you know what this is this is an amazing thing that they're doing i'll give it a go and uh and from there
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i will suddenly just kind of turn it into this presenter role i guess did you ever have an intention of doing
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presenting no god no absolutely not i would have been very happy just doing camera
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genuinely i love like i've always still to this day i will stand by by this time i'm 60 i would have at least uh directed
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one feature film wow 100 you'll do it 100 no i know i'll do it because i'll make it happen i don't care how low
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budget it is but i will do it [Laughter] so how how tell me about your first proper
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presenting gig then and how that came about there was a football company called football daily i know them yeah
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yeah and so this was right at the start of when they started out and uh
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they were just a group of lads that were just pushing out content and i just had this idea for a for a
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video that was based on uh like a football pickup line video
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and it was just silly and they were like well could you just go out and film it for us and i was like yeah fine
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and then they're like actually do you want do you want to do you want to just be in it and do it if that would be because it's cheaper and quicker yeah
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right so i was like okay i'll just go out and do it and then from that they then started asking me to go on to like chat about
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football i mean football something was so massive in terms of my life i'm an arsenal fan sorry about that but
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how are you man united oh man where are you from london uh i don't hear a man cuny an accent so
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that's pretty many knighted um no so but you know it's like i i started doing like silly kind of
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prank videos that then turned into chatting but it kind of all merged into one i ended
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up getting gigs with channel 4 mtv capital were asking me to do like
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outside broadcasty bits basically just like for the breakfast show they'll go let's cross over to roman who's at
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wimbledon you know what i mean but those are so important those every like you know with presenting is is
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is air miles is you you've got to do it like and and you've got to do all of
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those jobs because they throw different challenges to you every time you know
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and and they will come back and you'll look back and you'll go i'm so pleased i did that really [ __ ] job
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because i know what i got out of it you know there is no there's there's never a
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thing as a bad job ever because you will always get one thing out of it whether that just solely be
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i've done jobs i never want to talk about everything in my life like in terms of like how bad they were but
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i learned that from them so the next time i come to that point and i go hang on this is one of them yeah so therefore
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it was a good job to take i'm not making that mistake later at that time in your life did you
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did you at that point have an idea of what you wanted to do in the future when you were doing the football daily stuff and ah
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if i'm honest i i wanted to i just wanted to be football presenting because that's what i loved and i was
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enjoying myself i was i was happy and i was at a point where i feel like i'm getting paid to do something that
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i don't feel like i should be paid for you know and i think that's that's always been
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my focus always it always has been am i happy doing it yes
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okay we'll keep on doing it and i think that's the most important with anyone my mom actually again it was
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a conversation with my mum that she said to me and she was like what is it that you want to do and i was
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like i don't know i don't know you know i had so many things i was like should i should i try and be an actor because
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that's what my dad did or should i try and do music because that's what my mom and dad do
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should i stay there and then she was like no no but forget about that what do you like love doing like what makes you happy and i was just
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like i don't know just chatting about football with my mates she was like why can't you chat about football and make that your job and i was like well i don't know anyone
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in that and she goes well why can't you just make your own stuff and show people that you can do it how can i wish i had a mum like yours man honestly like like
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that's what i'm saying like but these conversations are real conversations that she had with me and she was literally saying well you just have to show people that you can do that i was
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like well how am i gonna i can't just walk into sky sports she was like why not my mom really kind of again my dad
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my dad is too nice he's too good of a cheerleader anything i want if i said if i said um
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you know when i was working at the gym or anything like that if i had said i had to clean this treadmill today and
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i think he goes yeah but i saw it and it was so good it was so good but that's what i mean
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you know the best parents i couldn't have lucked out more you know if if we are living in a matrix world where you select your pod
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of who your parents are i have done so well um but yeah my mum was the person
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that was really like you know what what is it you love and and i said that and she was like you know create your job you know
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make it and and i did and you know she's my mom's very spiritual in terms of manifesting and and i listen
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i'm more a coincidence person but um yeah she i think my mum always my mum
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always says this this one thing to me which i will have forever and i will always teach to my kids and i think you know
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going back to what you were saying about that pressure of having parents that do what i do
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uh you know and and we're all part of the same world having famous parents
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the one word that people will constantly say to you is that you're lucky
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constant yeah it will constantly say to you oh yeah but you are lucky because you got this or you got lucky because your
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parents have this and and i want to say to my mom i was like i've just done this really cool thing
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and all people say to me is oh yeah but you got lucky it's like so my mom used
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to say to me she was like she was like yeah but break that down and you know break down what what luck actually is and she was
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the first person to say that phrase to me where she said you know luck is when preparation meets opportunity
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and it's so right you know i i prepared myself in terms of i went out and i did the mileage i did all the rubbish jobs i
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learned about football you know all those types of things i spent those hours you know wanting to be the best i could
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be at it and then it just so happened that an opportunity in life of rose where i could show that skill set
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and from now on that's all i ever look at like ass you know and so when people say that i was lucky on something i was like yeah
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but i prepared to be in that situation and it was fake that the opportunity was there 100
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i mean i even get that now people will say to me that i got got lucky and i always liked one particular example
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which was when i i when i was 18 broke kid up in manchester in moscow see manchester yeah yeah
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off in manchester and i was living in moscow and i sent an email at 3am in the morning to the first person that came up on
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linkedin asking if they'd invest in my business and i was asking them for five grand they replied within a couple of
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hours and said they would if i'd if i assembled the team and i'm super lucky the first person i emailed gave me five grand i was up at 3
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a.m in the [ __ ] morning yeah i showed the email on stage where i removed the times the little thing blocking the timestamp yeah and i go you
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can call it luck but i know where you were at 3am on that saturday morning and so again but you created that
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opportunity and that's what i'm saying like that that opportunity just was there yeah and you had to have all the back knowledge
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to be able to do to provide it so if you just went to someone and said oh i want that and then they were like well what
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have you got to show for it you had nothing they wouldn't have done it and another another example that i actually learned actually from when someone was
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interviewing me the other day if i got a dice and i rolled it a thousand times eventually i'm going to get like 10 if a
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coin let's say eventually i'm going to get heads ten times in a row just because i flip it a thousand times if i
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flip 100 times it might happen but again it's like increasing the opportunity because of the amount of just flips
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if if i had prepared in my life to do a different type of job i'm sure there are so many opportunities that i've missed
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in this life that i'm living that would have been better for a different man that's basically how there's constant
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opportunities especially when you know that's why we're so fortunate to live in a place like you know we live in london like well i live in london you know i
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mean it's so fortunate to be able to be here and and you know not be in some
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you know [ __ ] part town that's why i always that's why that's to be honest that's why i always love
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uh you know i really like i really like you know the kind of grime scene and the
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the the rap scene in in the uk and all that type of stuff because these kids have come up from [ __ ] like
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bad areas with no so low opportunities and they've made tying of it you know
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which is great so when do when did you get a call from capital and how did that happen so i had i had a call from them that was
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like um yeah can you come and do um uh this was whilst i was doing i must
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have been doing football daily stuff i was doing stuff for like four music like just little hosting bits online
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and then someone called me and they said um oh you come and uh do a demo like come in and just do like
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a quick let's hear how your voice sounds so i was like yeah come in did that thought nothing of it didn't
00:22:13
really hear back then a few weeks later will you do some outside broadcasting bits where i remember i had to go to
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wimbledon and chat to people just in the queue rubbish like join me
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right rubbish stuff but all air miles you know all stuff that to this day i
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still know exactly what they taught me in my first demo and
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after that it kind of went to a point where i they offered me a show that was like
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they were like yeah you can do like bit bit role shows so like 1am to 4am
00:22:46
on a weekend every two weekends do you know what i mean and you're like and
00:22:52
you know a lot of people are like you know all my mates again were like well graveyard shift but i was like yeah but i'm off i'm gonna well to be honest
00:23:00
i yeah well that one that it was so great because it because it was in the middle of the night i could make any mistake i wanted
00:23:06
no boss is listening so no one cares right i could learn i've learned you know all the buttons and all those types
00:23:11
of things i don't know like i know radio presenters now that are like what do you mean you do the buttons yeah
00:23:18
yeah it's more fun like you know what i mean so it's it it was again it was that moment where i
00:23:24
had to learn and i knew that and i wanted to learn the craft as much as possible and
00:23:29
with radio i kind of just accidentally fell in love with it if you had told me 10 years ago i was hosting radio and
00:23:35
that would be my job and that's what people know me for i honestly would not even know where that would have even started
00:23:42
crazy though which is odd and it's hard because i get you get a lot of radio is a very
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you know as i say it's a clicky place because a lot of people went to student radio and like you know
00:23:54
what i mean like those types of things and i didn't take that natural path to be totally honest with you i said to
00:24:00
myself i was like right i'm on capitol now this is when i was 22
00:24:07
yeah when i was 20 20 yeah 21 22 and i said to myself i was like right i'm doing 1am to 4am every couple of
00:24:14
weekends now within well in 10 years i want to be doing the breakfast show
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and i did it in three two and a half three and like that for me is still like the
00:24:27
best you know achievement that i can name for myself why do you think why do you think you
00:24:34
did so well on radio because i kept pushing and i kept i kept like i always
00:24:39
like i speak to you know younger radio presenters now or even presenters that are there and i always say
00:24:45
what show are you doing all this type of stuff and then they'll be worried to say what i now say to them what show do you want to do
00:24:51
and they won't want to say it because there's someone else there but it's like well if you don't
00:24:56
you know what i mean like i was there every single day i know every every other week i was knocking on the boss's
00:25:02
door saying i'm better than that person i i can make it better i can do this
00:25:08
better i can this better you gotta do it no one's no one no one owes you something do you know what i mean that no one owes you that opportunity to have
00:25:15
a better show or a better tv show or whatever you know if i go to a commissioner at a tv channel i sure as
00:25:22
hell have to go in there with a better idea than what they've currently got otherwise what's point being there i'll sit there and go oh can you please
00:25:28
give me a show no like i've got to prove that i've got a show why and and that's all i did on on on
00:25:34
capitol it was literally like i remember they gave me they they said to me there was like there wasn't any show slots going and i
00:25:42
was like what have you got and they were like saturday five till eight
00:25:48
which was a horrendous show slot because 5 pm till 8 pm which is like everyone knows that
00:25:55
is dog territory how come like just because it's just low ratings right people are getting ready to go out you know i mean
00:26:02
on a saturday night no one's really listening to the radio those types of things not it's not quite 8 p.m where you're getting getting doing pre-drinks
00:26:07
and those types of things so it's just low rating statistically and i was like i don't care give me the
00:26:13
show i was like i like you in the show and then we took that and uh me and and joe my producer when we we
00:26:20
turn we get we gave it the the highest the highest
00:26:25
ratings within that slot that there's ever been for one
00:26:31
and it did some record in terms of weekend numbers ever on capitol why
00:26:36
because we changed it we before capital was always um constant happy happy happy as quickly as
00:26:42
you can in between the song say as little as possible move on move on move on move on
00:26:49
i wanted to create a show where i was like no that's not what if saturday at five o'clock
00:26:55
is quite a dead period for kids that were my age at that time which was like 20 23
00:27:00
and i was like a lot of my mates are these youtubers and these types of things why don't i get some of them on we'll just play some games we'll have
00:27:06
more fun with it and we just kind of created this a vibe you know instead of just going the
00:27:11
classic route of what of what they wanted to do and because it was a rubbish slot they just kind of said to me try it out
00:27:18
and we tried it and and and did it you know but it's just having that belief and just being like bang on the door and
00:27:24
be like look if it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't take it off me so
00:27:30
i'm pleased that we did that and that kind of led to me then going into like an evening show slot
00:27:35
quick one there is a really exciting new product coming from here which the founder julian told me about yesterday
00:27:41
on whatsapp um and it's something i've wanted from hill for a long time because when i look at my kind of nutrition
00:27:47
stack the things that i have and consume every single day to keep me performing at my best and in good shape and healthy
00:27:54
there's one thing missing which she'll currently don't do and to get that message from julian yesterday and to
00:27:59
know it's on it's on its way is tremendously exciting the thing about huel is they always focus on a couple of core principles
00:28:05
which is making sure that the the stuff inside the products are not only nutritionally complete but
00:28:11
they're sourced from suppliers that provide the best quality nutrition and to know that you are now going into more
00:28:17
categories that are essential to my nutrition stack is incredibly exciting so if you're starting your fuel journey
00:28:23
or you haven't started your fuel journey my recommendation is to get the starter pack they have on the website i'll link
00:28:29
it down below and that gives you a little bit of all the products in a box and then from that you can decide which
00:28:34
products are for you and where they fit in your life and i think if you're anything like me you might just fall in love with the brand
00:28:40
you went on to do a documentary which i i watched which was incredibly moving for a number of reasons um personally
00:28:47
i've got a you know one of my maybe my best friend and my business partner for the first seven or eight years was
00:28:52
um was depressed as we were running the business and i had no idea yeah so i only actually found out in hindsight and
00:28:59
he said to me when he came on this podcast actually afterwards after he had had a problem with alcohol
00:29:05
and i'd caught him in the laundry room we lived together at like 3 a.m in the morning drinking alcohol
00:29:11
and i'd because at the time i didn't understand what mental health um disorders were yeah so i just thought oh
00:29:16
he's got he's a piss-head yeah yeah you know what i mean but obviously that's i've come to learn that that's a symptom yeah something um
00:29:23
and then it all came to a head one day where he got really drunk and started exposing himself in front of employees
00:29:29
it's a long story but um then we had a chat and it was the first time we had a chat about what was going
00:29:35
on yeah without like anger or assumption and then he opened up to me and we cried on some sunday in the
00:29:41
office and he started his journey to get to seeing a therapist etc your documentary was just
00:29:47
it was just exceptional for so many reasons can you can you take me through yeah
00:29:52
because i because i know that you're you're working alongside your best friend joe at the radio um yeah can you take me
00:29:59
through i guess the first question is um did you know that anything was
00:30:06
at all no troubling joe no i i
00:30:11
never known joe for since i started six years six years straight being with that
00:30:17
person every single day almost like a boyfriend like that's that's like like we work
00:30:23
together every day we go out you know all the time like like after shows all those types of stuff weekends go out if
00:30:29
i had lined up my favorite guys over 10
00:30:35
20 if i had 30 mates i'd say 30 mates um i would probably put him last as to
00:30:42
who i would suspect would ever do anything like that i mean to put it to put it into context obviously
00:30:47
the documentary you're talking about obviously being you know about male suicide and and male depression it
00:30:53
was even this world that i'm in now i i really do not wish i was part of this world
00:30:59
like in terms of like i wish i didn't have people talking to me about suicide but this is where we are it's how life
00:31:05
goes that's that's it um but when it came to joe my my producer yeah he you
00:31:11
know he was the first person when i went to wimbledon that day he was the first person i met when i when i did my demo for the first first time he was that
00:31:17
person that was there with me this is someone that taught me everything i know in terms of my professional being now on
00:31:23
in terms of radio he taught me everything and sat next to me literally
00:31:29
two foot away from me every day on every single show you know
00:31:34
laughter as i say go out together all those types of things but i think
00:31:40
joe took his own life in august last year
00:31:45
and that for me was a moment where
00:31:51
i i kind of i i had dealt with my own kind of
00:31:56
suicidal thoughts and my own kind of depression and joe was very much aware of that which is why it was so strange
00:32:02
to me and why i felt like i had this piece of paper in front of me that said everything you know about of what you
00:32:08
think you know about someone that is suicidal in quotes is wrong because it doesn't have any form of
00:32:16
symptom because that's why each suicide is different to the next and you can't you
00:32:21
can't nullify it you can't be like oh if someone is you'll know someone's suicidal because they'll look like this
00:32:27
this this this you'll never find those answers which is a scary thought
00:32:32
but it's also um you know like what like what you said there like you didn't know
00:32:37
that mental health that puts you in a higher risk category than it puts me
00:32:44
the majority of men that take their own life have no idea that mental health disorders even
00:32:50
are a thing most of them think that people are just kind of lying or or people are just attention
00:32:57
seeking when they say they have depression that's over 70 of men that take their own life are in that situation they see it as a means to
00:33:04
an end they don't like what's going on in their life how do i make it stop take your own knife
00:33:11
it's it's it's so strange so yeah so sorry in a long-winded way i would never have
00:33:17
thought that joe would have been that person at all now that really does um
00:33:24
make you think about all your friends right 100 but that's why that's why like
00:33:29
wow you know and look when when i when it came to to making the documentary joe
00:33:34
died in august i started making that doc in november
00:33:40
two months right because i one all i know how to do
00:33:46
is through creative stuff i don't my writing like you know what i mean i
00:33:52
write something down i'm not going to lobby government because i don't know how to do that you know all those types of things
00:33:57
i just know how to make something and and i knew also selfishly i knew that if
00:34:03
i do a doc i'm going to be able to meet people that have tried to take their own life i'm going to be able to meet psychiatrists
00:34:09
i'm going to be able to meet professors and learn the science because i was so convinced in my head i was like
00:34:14
i need to know all the things that i need to be looking out for for my other friends yeah
00:34:21
basically that documentary became my own therapy and and people watched it and i think
00:34:27
that's why you know i realized after that [ __ ] like
00:34:32
it is one it's everywhere and two there is no there's no way of telling so therefore
00:34:40
the only people that can help those people are their friends and that's what the documentary is it's
00:34:45
not a documentary about suicide it's a documentary about friendship and how we now have to take ownership of our mates
00:34:53
what did that journey of creating that documentary and your own experiences teach you about and this is one of the
00:34:58
things that's really fascinated me for a long time is like we're seeing this apparent increase in mental health disorders and i say apparent because
00:35:04
sometimes it's hard to distinguish whether it's because of the increase in awareness that we have more people putting the hand up and say listen i'm
00:35:10
suffering or it's because if the world has changed social media whatever you want to call it and people are we're
00:35:15
living in a less healthy way but so we're seeing this the data shows that there's a pretty
00:35:22
significant increase in mental health disorders things like treatment resistant depression i'm actually the creative director one of the big
00:35:27
investment investors in a um a tie which is one of the maybe the biggest mental health psychedelics business in the
00:35:33
world so i do a lot of i have spent a lot of time looking at clinical studies and obviously psychedelics is it comes
00:35:39
that depression more from a place of like what's happened to you versus what's wrong with you yeah yeah yeah
00:35:44
it's about like ayahuasca and stuff like that yeah yeah you're like yeah it's more sort of like trauma-centric approach to looking at
00:35:49
what have you learned about what's causing the increase in mental health disorders from your journey um
00:35:56
it's it's tough i mean i can only speak from a male perspective um obviously
00:36:01
um and i only ever have done because i i it's so easy and the thing the thing
00:36:07
that the most the thing that i saw the most was oh um
00:36:13
everyone's saying to me well it's social media in it there's social media the fastest is not like like social media is
00:36:19
there yes and and it and it can you know create a trigger or anything like that for
00:36:25
someone that may be feeling down i don't think it's the sole purpose i can also be madly
00:36:31
inspired by social media i can also be made to feel really really happy by social media
00:36:36
i think the main problem with men is is purely down to
00:36:42
is is almost toxic masculinity so it's our own kind of fault you know the pressures that we put on ourselves
00:36:49
um to to be you know the person that we want to be to to to have the body that
00:36:54
we want to to have the things that we want and to to have the job the family you know even the pressure that i put on myself to have the family that i should
00:37:01
have you know i'm i worry that if i come to like the age of 50 and i don't have that how am i gonna feel
00:37:07
you know and it's all about it's all about creating
00:37:12
tools you know in our brain for kids as young as five and and you know throughout
00:37:17
primary school to learn how to deal with these issues throughout time like people
00:37:22
have had depression it's just how our brains are worked you know what i mean that's how our brains and why there's always been
00:37:28
depression yeah you know you've got a right point in terms of like the data i'll obviously show that there's more because there are more
00:37:35
cases don't get me wrong like throughout the pandemic obviously i always like i don't go too much into
00:37:42
to government stuff but i think it's so like grotesque to even
00:37:48
trap people in their homes in the way that obviously they did do and not think about the mental health side of things because
00:37:54
they haven't they completely ignored it like like the government completely ignored how much of a problem
00:38:01
mental health will be during the pandemic people being on their own not being able to go about their lives you know and also the trauma
00:38:08
that that's going to have later on in life for kids you know i learned a stat though that is
00:38:14
horrendous right and this is something that you know when i was asked will i go out and make another documentary and i think
00:38:20
for this stat i want to because i can't quite believe it
00:38:26
any business or any school has to sign a health and safety declaration right and that's how it is they all have
00:38:32
to sign a piece of paper that says if you hurt yourself here we'll sign that 100 of schools up and
00:38:38
down the country sign that there is also a declaration of mental
00:38:44
health right where a school has to look after a kid if the traumatic event happens within school they have to make sure that you know their their mental
00:38:50
health is looked after in the uk two percent of schools have signed that
00:38:58
so you're saying that 98 of schools up and down the uk look at mental health and go nothing to
00:39:03
do with us school is the most traumatic time in anyone's life if parents knew that if
00:39:09
parents knew that the schools don't care about your kids mental health
00:39:14
then that that is what is you know that's what's putting us in a situation now where men are killing themselves
00:39:21
because we don't know we've never been taught how to deal with it no one's ever looked after us
00:39:27
teaching us how to deal with it you talk about toxic masculinity though one of the things that's always associated with that is just men's lack of willingness
00:39:33
to like make a phone call yeah to a friend and say listen i am
00:39:38
not okay and you know you also have been very open about the day where you were feeling like that and your
00:39:44
superwoman mother yes once again yeah she she called you coincidentally or
00:39:50
yeah yeah yeah yeah coincidentally well it was kind of like yeah i went to caller and then like [ __ ] like i texted
00:39:56
her a couple times and then she just called me because you were feeling bad so you text her
00:40:01
yeah i mean people are telling you this but when you're in that zone you know if you're in a
00:40:07
absolute spiral everything goes into a right blur all i know is that i was in my house and
00:40:12
i was in my pants and i was i could not stop crying and i couldn't stop worrying about everything and my head was going
00:40:18
like a whirlwind like i was worrying about stuff that wasn't even logical like what was your brain
00:40:24
telling you i can't even like i can't even describe it like it's like
00:40:30
the only way it feels like anything in my head that could have been a problem
00:40:35
was a problem have you ever had like you know when you're you're hungover and well like the next day i don't know
00:40:41
if you drink but yeah the next day right if you have a hangover you have this like paranoia thing like
00:40:47
throughout like stuff just makes you feel a little bit edgy whispery like yeah yeah yeah it's like that but a
00:40:53
million times the only way also that i talk about it is like it's like a paranoia and it's like
00:41:00
mike your brain becomes mike tyson and he's just beating you up and you've not had one boxing lesson in
00:41:06
your life so you're just kind of like you can't do anything you're just taking it right and it's like you're things
00:41:11
like you look bad you've not done this your tax bill's this you're this you're this you're this you're this are you ever gonna do this you're never gonna do
00:41:17
this loads of like voices and at that point i just said to myself
00:41:22
you know what i can't i don't know what to do and the only thing i could think about was i was okay
00:41:27
well just i'll just you know take my own life i'll just kill myself
00:41:34
that's that's how honestly how i felt because i was like that's the only way to stop this and then as you said my mum called me
00:41:41
and uh she kept me on the phone for about an hour because i was at my house and i'd like in my head i was like i'll
00:41:47
just go to the train station and just you know do like you know take a jump right between that's honestly what went
00:41:53
through my head and then it's like at that point i was like okay fine and then i speak to my mom and my
00:41:58
mum got there within an hour and we just kind of you know what i don't even remember i
00:42:04
don't even remember getting there it's a very strange place to be it's a it's a natural
00:42:10
you know break they call it a mental breakdown for a reason because i can't your whole mind just blanks and that's
00:42:16
that's the same thing that i've spoken to a lot of people that have attempted to take their own life and they all say the same thing
00:42:22
those moments that you have are completely like just
00:42:27
so intense that your mind goes it implodes
00:42:33
and and you don't even know and that's why a lot of men will will tell you that when they you know if they take it to that step
00:42:40
which is a huge step to to decide okay i'm going to take my own life a lot of men go that was my happiest moment because i
00:42:46
felt like in that time i was in control of my life which is a really scary thought and really sad thought
00:42:53
that they feel like the biggest amount of clarity that they've ever had in their life and the moment where they felt at peace
00:42:58
was when they felt like okay i'm gonna do this and everything will stop but the problem is is that that's not
00:43:04
the answer and it's really not and when i speak to you know in the documentary i speak to
00:43:10
joe's mom keep in mind this is three months after her son has passed away and she's had to
00:43:15
be told that her son who she's raised has taken his own life she she sums it up in such an amazing
00:43:21
way which is kind of touching on a very dangerous topic of selfishness
00:43:27
around suicide which a lot of people don't want to talk about but it's the truth which is
00:43:33
suicide isn't necessarily a selfish act by that person but the problem is is that no matter
00:43:39
what pain that person is feeling in that moment no matter what pain you're going through in your head
00:43:45
or sadness you do not get rid of that by taking your own life all you are
00:43:51
doing is you are transferring it to everyone around you and you are transferring that on average 180 people
00:43:57
get um affected by one singular suicide and and that is what you are doing
00:44:03
and it's just the fact you know like for two
00:44:08
months i absolutely hated joe i hated him after he died i felt quite cold
00:44:14
because i was just like how could you do that i felt like i i could you leave me your
00:44:20
mum your dad your sister actually do that how could you let someone find you
00:44:25
like do you know what i mean so it's it's it's it's in that that you realize that
00:44:32
no matter how much that clarity is there and you feel like you're escaping a problem you are passing that on to someone else
00:44:39
and that's what's left behind you and i know for a fact that i know like i would put so much money on that
00:44:47
if he was here right now he'd look at me and say sorry i made a mistake 100
00:44:54
so much so so much i was thinking about that so the first thing is my business partner also said to me he wanted he was considering jumping in front of a train
00:45:00
that's what he said to me in our private conversations the other thing is just this this um it's really it's really hard for someone
00:45:07
who's not been through what you're describing there what you went through and evidently what joe went through
00:45:12
to understand the that place if you've not been there
00:45:19
that's this is why it's so valuable and like i was thinking you know it must as you kind of alluded to there you
00:45:24
didn't choose to for everybody to ask you in every interview about this topic but the the immense value that it's like
00:45:31
it's doing on someone like me who's been fortunate enough not to be in that place who can now unders from your description
00:45:37
there that mike tyson description can now understand that
00:45:43
how that must feel yeah but i can't but i can almost but the the thing is the thing is is what's better is because you
00:45:50
are in a higher risk category than me yeah i know which is [ __ ] terrified because but now that i've spoken to you
00:45:56
about it yeah and that you you're not because because that's that's the problem is that you know all of the guys
00:46:02
that i spoke to said to me they were like didn't think mental health was a thing was a thing
00:46:08
didn't think what i was going through was depression thought i was just rubbish and just thought i you know i
00:46:14
wasn't where i wanted to be in life just wanted that to end that's the the realization of it you
00:46:19
know and again it's it's that thing of you know it's a it's a topic that no one really wants to talk about and is is
00:46:25
also why i was so adamant that
00:46:30
the worst okay this is the worst thing right is if you're in that state
00:46:36
your mate's in that state right the last thing he wants to do is talk to you about that
00:46:43
so why is the kind of push always
00:46:48
oh if you're fairly depressed you should talk no that's the last thing i want to do if
00:46:54
anything you're going to make me revert more right you're going to go back more the
00:46:59
the pressure should be placed on us as friends to to make that call and to make that
00:47:04
conversation happen with anyone that you would ever suspect even if you don't suspect it make sure
00:47:11
how sure are you how sure are you of the people in your phone book or your close friends that they're not thinking these thoughts not sure enough but that's what
00:47:17
i mean so all you have to do is have that conversation but that will take you having that conversation i always say i
00:47:22
do a lot of talks for businesses about mental health and
00:47:27
um i always leave it with you know go away today choose three people in your phone book
00:47:33
that you speak to regularly and ask them ask them are they okay but do
00:47:39
it twice you know and that's something that i learned from a group of lads who had lost their mate they they now look after each other by
00:47:46
asking at the beginning of the conversation are you okay have the conversation and then just go back to it and be like so tell me yeah
00:47:51
are you okay choose three people do that two okay rule on them and tell me that you
00:47:57
haven't found something new from at least one of those people it's fact right like it's so messed up
00:48:02
for us as a society you know especially especially living in living in london
00:48:08
like you know which is just a horrific but amazing place
00:48:14
you know it's this beautiful you know cultural place it's my home it's it's everything but it is also a treadmill
00:48:21
and you go get on it and if you're not on it you're you're not even in the picture
00:48:26
and that means that conversation switches to
00:48:32
what do you do how can i profit off that and the most important thing in a conversation should always be are you
00:48:38
okay when you say to your mates hey how are you you go yeah i'm good glaze over it like that
00:48:45
why is that not the most important thing that you ask someone and it should be it should always be and
00:48:51
and that's why for guys we forget that so you have to go oh [ __ ] okay i'll ask it again
00:48:57
you know and and that is you know be i want people to to be the the hero to to
00:49:02
their friends that i know i wasn't to mine because i know i wasn't and no matter how many people say to me ah he
00:49:08
did what he did because of you know that was his prerogative and all that sort of stuff yeah for sure but the fact is that
00:49:13
if someone had this conversation with me i probably would have brought out with him and i would have i know if i'd if i'd
00:49:19
got to the crux of it if i'd if i had asked joe those questions if i had said to him
00:49:25
are you okay if i'd done that twice if i'd spoken to him seen how he is i don't think i'd be here
00:49:31
i don't think i'd be having this conversation and i want other people to understand that it's up to us as friends
00:49:38
but you spoke to joe about your struggles about me and did he ever did he not ever reciprocate and say well
00:49:43
i've also been no no but that's that's that's his that's his
00:49:49
thing what was he like as a guy in terms of being a kid was he was he a a a guy that talked about deep topics like
00:49:55
you've got your friends yeah yeah was he talked teachers it's ridiculous like i still find it now
00:50:02
ridiculous even talking about him because it's like if if he had known that i was out here talking about people
00:50:08
about him it's odd it's odd to be able to be speaking about one of your friends and like i don't know it's odd but he's
00:50:15
someone that was the most outgoing funny creative guy he always he cheated on
00:50:23
genius and idiot constantly um he would have the most
00:50:29
ridiculous ideas and at 99 of them you know i have 100 of them 99 would be
00:50:35
ridiculous and one would be incredible and and that one incredible thing is the thing that we'd always champion and push
00:50:41
forward but he's someone that yeah like i say like every single one of my friend grew i've
00:50:46
never noticed a more smiley person i've never known someone more happy-go-lucky more
00:50:52
just happy to be there and that's why i say
00:50:57
if that can happen to him best believe it can happen to anyone else
00:51:02
did anybody ever find out what got him to that place or any any did he not leave him
00:51:09
no again this is another thing is hollywood would make us believe that people leave
00:51:14
notes yeah they're not over 90 don't and and never know
00:51:21
and and that's why it's just a it's a horrible horrible harsh thing and it's it's so
00:51:28
final that's the that's the problem is it's so final also another thing is you know
00:51:34
girls can't be taken out of this conversation as well because when i i worked with the nottinghamshire
00:51:40
um street triage team who are an incredible team of people that are
00:51:46
police and mental health expert that go out on calls together so be a mental health nurse right with
00:51:52
with a police officer and they will respond to a mental health crisis right so someone trying to take their own life etc
00:51:59
and i said to them i was like oh you know i went there like in the mode of like oh yeah so it must all be guys that you speak to and then
00:52:05
we're like no actually it's around 90 of our calls are women having mental struggles
00:52:12
or trying to take their own life and then you look at the data and you're like why does that make sense but the
00:52:18
problem is is that us as men being men we choose more final methods in terms of
00:52:24
how to end that pain and that's the unfortunate reality of it you made that documentary it was i mean
00:52:32
it was it was everywhere and everybody was talking about it yeah really really far-reaching in fact i know that the
00:52:37
amount of people calling suicide and sort of mental health um support lines shot up drastically so it was amazing
00:52:44
it's like 700 percent or something crazy like that yeah 720 um
00:52:50
but with that you then carry this i guess this like social you you become
00:52:57
the ambassador for something right i do not want to be the ambassador for it but that's how life is now
00:53:03
and the only reason why i'll go out there and do it is because of joe's family genuinely like
00:53:09
it's not easy right talking about that no it's not like i'll give you examples
00:53:14
like you know i'll go to parties now and you like the
00:53:19
main thing that like lads lads will come up to me and talk to me about is how how they feel which is nice in a way
00:53:27
but it's a lot it's a lot yeah i won't like that it's a lot it's a lot like like there are days where i i don't want
00:53:33
to talk about i have people like again like i'll be out for dinner or something like that and someone will come up to you and say oh my god that documentary
00:53:38
blah blah blah i wasn't thinking about mommy taking his own life but now i'm thinking about it
00:53:44
do you know what i mean but that is life like that that's always how it is and and the only way that i can kind of get
00:53:49
around that is by you know you can tell them but by the way that i talk about it i'm still passionate about it you know because
00:53:56
i've been scarred by i've got such trauma attached to
00:54:02
suicide and and mental health and that's a trauma that i'll always have you know that when when you look for things
00:54:08
you know one of the questions i've asked you know other people you know that have been through what
00:54:13
i've been through i said to them when does it get better and and their reply is it doesn't you just learn to deal with
00:54:19
it a little bit better do you know what i mean like it you just learn a different technique to stop
00:54:25
thinking about it and you know that will be with me forever i'll tell my kids about joe you know
00:54:31
i'll be bang on top of my kids is mental health you know what's going on with him
00:54:36
but again i just think it's throughout all of this you know as you say
00:54:42
being a part and having these conversations now is is crazy
00:54:47
and weird do you still feel a bit of anger
00:54:52
sometimes towards joe for doing that um
00:54:58
yeah every now and again every now and again that's normal yeah you know it it's normal every now and
00:55:04
again i'll be like every now and again it's more so like me and my mates will have a story
00:55:11
and we'll laugh and then at the end of it we'll go like why mate come on like because i know
00:55:18
like i know that if he was there what he'd say to me yeah i can hear it clear as day
00:55:24
he'd say i'm sorry mate i made a mistake and and that that's what's so sad and
00:55:30
it's like i know that whatever it is that he was going through it ain't worth and it never is worth no matter what
00:55:35
anyone's going through is that this this this is not an option it's not an option
00:55:40
i've i'm mistaken because i can't remember her name so please forgive me if she ever hears this or friends of her
00:55:46
ever hear this um there was a mum that that recently um
00:55:52
got the wording changed around um the phrase commit suicide so now that that is not a phrase that
00:55:58
should necessarily be said so it's always you would refer to it as take take your own life
00:56:04
because to commit suicide is actually an illegal act and therefore a lot of young a lot of
00:56:09
parents were left with a child who if they had written it down that they'd done that that they would go down
00:56:15
essentially as a criminal a criminal because you're committing an illegal act um
00:56:20
so that phrasing has gone now which is quite nice is a nice thing um
00:56:26
but you know suicide is still such a weird thing that people don't want to talk about but yet
00:56:32
is the biggest thing you think how much think how many cancer adverts think about testicular cancer adverts you see on a daily basis now
00:56:38
put that together with how many male suicide adverts do you see you don't it
00:56:48
how have you found being in the public spotlight you talked a little bit about there about like people coming up to you at dinners
00:56:54
and parties and stuff yeah yeah like when you're in the spotlight anyway people come up to you and just say oh i love your thing yeah right but now
00:56:59
they're coming up and saying how have you found all of that in terms of the the dark the dark blue just generally i mean in general mate
00:57:06
like to be totally honest i don't know any different yeah genuinely because i
00:57:11
like it for me it was uh it's like
00:57:16
in the same way that i could say to you how is it in that bit how is it hitting puberty
00:57:22
it's like you'd seen people above you go through that so you kind of knew what to expect oh okay and you kind of dealt with it do you know what i mean whereas
00:57:28
like for me because i was people coming up to me now saying oh can i get a picture and if i'm with a mate i
00:57:34
have to say to them can you hold the phone and you know take the picture i was that person oh right holding the
00:57:41
phone half my life yeah you know so it just it's always been always been there any time i was a kid any any time
00:57:48
i was a kid walking into a pub going to a football match walking into a restaurant anywhere i clocked people looking at my
00:57:55
dad or my mom did you understand that they were like famous yeah mate loved it yeah i
00:58:01
loved it loved it like like put it this way my sister was always my sister was always
00:58:06
really shy my sister was always really shy of it and my dad always tells a story where he said it was a
00:58:12
show-and-tell at school and um i must have been about
00:58:18
six my dad was in eastenders you just joined eastenders and um
00:58:24
his character name was steve owen in eastenders right and um and it was a big thing that he was in
00:58:29
there and the firemen came to school like to show the fire truck and to you know show how
00:58:36
this is our equipment and all that type of stuff and they said any questions and my dad and my mum said i put my hand
00:58:43
up and said you may think that's cool but my dad's steve owen so i've always i've always been
00:58:51
insanely proud of my parents you know like and and you know i credit them for you know my dad has always been very
00:58:57
patient with everyone and in terms of like people wanting pictures or stuff like that he always does it too yeah he
00:59:03
always does it but he taught me something else which you know we had a little bit of a chat about this before but he's never let me take pictures with
00:59:09
people ever and i don't do that and i always get i get told off about it because
00:59:14
people are like oh if you're hanging out with this person you take a picture oh so if you yeah so if you want to take a photo with like justin bieber then he's
00:59:19
not gonna yeah even footballers right like when i was a kid all i wanted was was like you know take picture if i met football i would want to take a picture
00:59:25
and he was like nah enjoy that moment with you and that person the picture is nothing you you know it's great gratification for
00:59:32
someone else to see it he goes that you should enjoy that moment live it with your eyes and and and speak to them and
00:59:37
if you really want to you know make a moment in that person's life go up to them and say you know you know what i
00:59:42
really really like your work i really appreciate what you've done i really like this that goes so much further
00:59:48
than you know if someone came up to me and said i just want to let you know that i've really liked what you did that
00:59:53
means so much more than anyone's running up to you and going get a picture take a picture run off
01:00:02
yeah yeah you know if someone came up to and said mate i really love your podcast i really love you know everything you've
01:00:07
done the business the businesses that you've created means so much more yeah um someone was pleased about that so
01:00:13
yeah so so fame in terms of for me has always kind of been um there's pros and cons to
01:00:19
our jobs now fame is a con is a is a bad part of it
01:00:26
the good part is that we get to do fun stuff interesting you the good part is you get to speak to
01:00:31
interesting people yeah sat here the the con is that when you're out for dinner someone may have watched that
01:00:37
conversation yeah and want to interrupt you yeah and talk to you about it yeah
01:00:42
i went to i was went to the like united away game the other day and i always get it in some certain places so like
01:00:48
whenever there's a younger demographic dragons is going to change that i was talking to my team this week because yeah like bbc one's a slightly more
01:00:54
parenty audience really change that you'll see that so when i'm in my when i'm at old trafford in the like gallery
01:00:59
area which is all probably a little bit older people yeah no one bothers me forgotten if i go to an away day
01:01:05
honestly last week someone had their arm around me the whole game i love you share me on his phone i love your podcast yeah and i'm if he's going to
01:01:11
watch the game yeah come on he's out and he's and you know anything yeah yeah yeah i'm wearing a [ __ ] hoodie and
01:01:16
like you know but yeah but that's why it was a good thing in that sense yeah it was a really good thing no it's
01:01:22
actually a conversation i started having and you've experienced this much more than i have which is just i
01:01:28
will there become a point where i become more of an introvert and don't want to go to places because of the amount of
01:01:34
people that are like it's exhausting right and i don't want to be i'll never be an [ __ ] i know that for sure i'll
01:01:40
never say it's tiring right it's tiring for sure but naturally that will happen
01:01:46
because your life changes like you're going to be on a tv show that is watched by millions of people like like this is
01:01:53
that's you know it's what my dad what my dad always says you know and that's you know that's why he always says to me you can't you know people that get angry at
01:02:00
fans or whatever and like you know or rude to people you can't put your head above the parapet not expect to get hit
01:02:06
yeah you know what i mean like how can you do that like you're choosing to to go on a show that
01:02:11
is watched by millions of people yeah so therefore if you go out you need to be more careful you need to you know like
01:02:17
you know understand that that people are going to want certain things and that's fine but
01:02:22
that's just that's just the world quick one as many of you know i've been trying to make my life a little bit more sustainable as it relates to energy ever
01:02:29
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01:02:35
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01:03:16
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01:03:23
product and one that i'm going to be installing in my home soon you've met a lot of very um
01:03:28
famous supers mega stars and you've parted with a lot of them and been very close to a lot of them i've been reading some of the stories about justin bieber
01:03:34
when you look at some of these people yeah that have been wildly successful yep
01:03:40
what what have you noticed about like their happiness and like the ones that are happy the ones that you think oh god
01:03:46
i'm concerned for this one what is the what's your general observation these really happy people
01:03:52
honestly i think it's it's all about it's all about the values it's always about what are they doing it for
01:03:59
you know and and the family life you know there's there's people that
01:04:05
what i always find so interesting is is i think one of the reasons why i'm able to again do the job that i do and speak to
01:04:12
those people who are on such higher pedestals it's because you've got to remember that i've grown up with a with a godfather
01:04:18
who is or was and still to this day one of the most famous singers
01:04:24
ever in george michael and growing up with george i saw very
01:04:30
quickly that the more famous you get it does not become more fun it doesn't
01:04:36
you don't know who's your friends you don't know those types of things and i think that that can lead people to
01:04:44
be into a bit of a troubled situation you know you get approached by so you don't have a good core friend
01:04:49
group like a big core friend group that could lead to everyone around you being yes men
01:04:54
that just want to be on the payroll that will do something because they think that it will help in their career and those types of things
01:05:00
i'm uber fortunate i've got a really nice friend group and the artist that i know
01:05:06
you know speaking from a music music background the artist that i know that have those incredible friend groups are
01:05:12
just amazing people like ed sheeran yeah it is incred like but ed's values
01:05:17
are so correct you know and his his parents are lovely people as well in terms of you know
01:05:23
the pleasure of you know having dinner with his dad and stuff like that [Music] they
01:05:29
they're just people that understand that this is just fun the creativeness is just the fun you know
01:05:34
all the fame and those types of things are just a side note you know ed ed does everything he does now i'm sure because
01:05:40
he's he's so family orientated and that's so important you know he's married to cherry who's his childhood
01:05:45
sweetheart you know give me another example it's like not a horrendous one my good mates
01:05:52
niall's friend group is all his friend group from young school
01:05:58
young and they will kill him like in like conversations or like i mean his cousins
01:06:04
will rip him to shreds and all those types of things and all it does is just ground him constantly and and it's that grounding nature that
01:06:10
if you don't have that within this world or that world you're gonna struggle
01:06:17
justin for instance was someone that was taken at like nine he didn't have a chance to to build a proper friend group
01:06:23
didn't even have a chance and so you worry for people like that because you know that's why you know he
01:06:29
he's now found faith and that's his thing and and that is his grounding
01:06:34
moment in his life and his wife of course she's uh exactly she seems to be a good actor that's what i mean so it's
01:06:40
you know for him he has those things for me is those core group of cool
01:06:45
grouper mates and you must meet a couple that you're a bit concerned about in terms of always because i've met a couple of you know
01:06:51
famous people and i thought [ __ ] oh they're not happy no you know 100 uh could you feel it when you meet them with their energy and then all the time
01:06:57
instantly there's there's a few people that you know i don't even know that well and i've ended up having to reach out to
01:07:03
because i feel like i probably should and
01:07:08
it's sad it's a really sad like sometimes it can be a sad existence
01:07:14
money can make you feel amazing 100 it can buy happiness but that happiness can
01:07:20
run out like that's the thing as quickly as your bank balance can run out that happiness can run out like
01:07:27
and people struggle like people really really struggle and it's and this is again this is another thing what what i
01:07:33
learned with making the doc about suicide and talking about you know mental health was
01:07:39
the first thing i saw when um when people uh
01:07:44
heard like press release came out saying that i was doing a documentary about suicide or twitter was like
01:07:50
what what does a celebrity kid know about struggling and mental health and these types of things
01:07:56
but the thing is is that it's all you know those struggles that you see artists going through or you know
01:08:02
addiction problems or those types of things it's all just it's only relevant to what their life is
01:08:10
you know those problems the problem that someone in a lower class system has in their head will be just as high as someone in a
01:08:17
upper class system because it's just relevant to the circumstance
01:08:23
and it's big in their head and that's what people have to understand is that no matter what the problem is you know people say oh it's a
01:08:29
an awful class problem or whatever like they like first world problem that's
01:08:35
what people say right it's not that that's not to be looked at it's it's just something that that's
01:08:40
what's affecting you and you don't wear a uniform for depression there isn't a job title for depression yeah
01:08:47
you know one of the things you said at the start this conversation was about um one of the expectations that you do feel a bit of a bit of pressure to me is the
01:08:54
one in your sort of romantic life right yeah i've struggled with that for a long time i've got to be honest yeah struggled
01:09:00
with their girlfriend's dating all that stuff tinder all of the way that people date in the modern age and just like
01:09:05
finding good people and really putting the effort in because i can't be bothered with the small talk yeah yeah yeah so tell me about that are you a
01:09:11
single man right now i'm single right now yes yeah i just to be honest it's it's like
01:09:17
my my one thing that i struggle with and i've i've had girlfriends that you know in the past where i've i've
01:09:24
i've been an absolute [ __ ] and of course like do you know what i mean like and i've let work get in the way i've
01:09:29
let that lifestyle kind of get in the way but the one thing i know is that i
01:09:35
i want that relationship i see my mom and dad have i want that like more than anything you
01:09:42
know and i just i think the thing that i panic about more is you know it's it's an odd thing but it's
01:09:49
like like for me i think it's an insecurity that a lot of men have that never talk about as well
01:09:55
which is will i be able to have kids when i'm older people never talk about that but like i never hear any of my talk about
01:10:00
that but i'm always like oh that's my biggest fear someone says what's your biggest fear that because i think that my sole purpose on
01:10:06
this life is is just to make other people that are nice like that's how i feel so you know for
01:10:12
me is i'm such a family person i feel like at this point in time i worry that if i got into something would
01:10:19
i be able to give that person what they deserve in terms of being a partner because i am
01:10:26
work focused and i do like i'm enjoying my life right now i'm enjoying doing what i'm doing and i don't want to like
01:10:33
defer from that have you struggled when you're in a relationship and if so what is the what is the in your sort of
01:10:40
self-aware opinion what is the reason why you struggle in relationships um i struggled in relationships in the past
01:10:46
and i still will struggle now going forward because i always have this massive fear that there is resentment
01:10:51
on my future partners part i mean i i never i couldn't be with
01:10:57
someone that doesn't really work or do those things because i'd be so scared that they'd look at me
01:11:03
and think oh well it's fine for him because he can get this or afford this or do this and this and this do you know what i mean i
01:11:09
always try my best to to make sure that i'm with someone that i can raise up as much as people on the outside raise me
01:11:15
up you know because that's that's a horrible thing that i see so much and look i go through it even now like you
01:11:21
know people come up to me and they go oh my god your dad is such an amazing person blah blah blah do you ever think
01:11:26
about you with your dad and with you with your dad and all this type of stuff and i'm like my mom is wicked like do you know what i mean and that i think
01:11:32
that worry that i always had with my mom and i always felt like i had to stand up for my mom and be like hang on she played at live aid as well do you know
01:11:39
what i mean she had a number one record as well i always feel like i worry that you know
01:11:44
about that in a partner and i want to always make sure that a partner knows that that no matter how many people are
01:11:50
coming up to me and saying oh you know you're doing really well doing very well i'll always be there and say yeah but
01:11:56
she's doing this that's so interesting you know what i mean you know what i i don't because i've not
01:12:02
i've not been through that yeah but that's that's what i mean that's that's the thing that i think is so important i see so many [ __ ] people
01:12:09
like and i've seen it my whole life right the celebrities that you they introduce
01:12:15
themselves to you or you you speak to them and their partner just stands there and they don't even introduce them to
01:12:20
you and you must have seen that growing up because that that feels like it's very front of mind for you whereas like yeah yeah for sure people just don't
01:12:26
want to talk about that but it's like you know it's a partnership you know my that's always obviously my dad and my
01:12:31
mum now fine but like i don't want that i don't want my
01:12:36
partner to feel like everyone just wants to talk to roman i don't want that like i i really don't
01:12:42
and people and or for my partner to think what i do isn't as good as what he does or doesn't earn as much money as what he
01:12:49
does or doesn't you know get as much gratification as he does does that mean that you go for no it means that like i i i have i love
01:12:56
like women that have their you know life going on or like are busy or those sort of things that attracts me
01:13:03
more than anything you know you look at the girls that i've dated in the past that they're girls are doing their own thing and they're
01:13:08
looking good at it like and you know and it's one of the reasons to be totally honest with you it's one of the reasons
01:13:13
why i don't really say english girls ever i love someone not knowing what i do for a living i love someone not
01:13:19
caring at all if i was to ask one of your your two last exes if i said why
01:13:24
did your relationship with roman end what do you reckon they'd say um
01:13:30
two focus on work too focused on what he's doing um i'd say that
01:13:36
that's interesting i i was that guy for a long time maybe stalam yeah but there but there's nothing wrong with being
01:13:42
that and that's that's what i have to learn there's nothing wrong with being up because if if you are happy in your
01:13:47
life if if you are you know getting that fulfillment which i feel like i am then that's okay
01:13:54
there's a time for everything yeah i i see it for me it was like a chapter so there was a phase of my life where i was
01:14:00
very very very selfish but i always wanted romantic connection in a relationship i started to actually learn the importance of it studying some stuff
01:14:06
and seeing that men that had a romantic partner for their lives were lived like
01:14:11
several years longer got ill way less and i was thinking okay maybe having a relationship business is equally
01:14:17
important as just making millions of pounds and then i started to feel i don't know you get older you've had a lot of sex
01:14:23
with a lot of people that you just can't remember yeah and you thought well that wasn't it that didn't feel yeah the day
01:14:28
after so okay this is more substantive to have a meaningful relationship and then
01:14:35
i've started to realize that okay this is only ever going to work if i compromise a little bit sometimes
01:14:41
and also find someone worth compromising for yeah but a relationship is all about a compromise yes that's it
01:14:47
it's always about compromise and it's about finding someone that is your best friend not not about you know someone
01:14:53
that you just find really fair are you compromising do you think um at the minute i'm not because i i i feel
01:15:00
like at this moment in time and i'll be totally honest with you after um
01:15:06
after i lost joe after joe did i i kind of got in this mindset where i was like you know what i just need to live my life i just need to do what i want to do
01:15:13
and not feel like if i i didn't personally i didn't want to get into a relationship because i felt like some of
01:15:18
my relationships or some of the moments that i've been with people i feel like i've wasted my time yeah and i can't not
01:15:24
feel like that so many people so many girls feel like that about guys that they've made i'm sure that this is this podcast and and i felt like that too and i felt
01:15:30
like you know what why was i trying to compromise when i need to enjoy myself a little bit you know and
01:15:37
find that kind of happiness and i firmly believe that that time will come i'm definitely a relationship person 100
01:15:44
yeah but and you know i believe that time will come but right now i just know that it's more so in my head it's like
01:15:51
i know that i could get into seeing someone or whatever but i just know that it'll reach a point where i can't give
01:15:56
them what they deserve and a girl doesn't deserve to have someone that might be too tired that day to even text
01:16:03
them yeah yeah do you know what i mean yeah yeah like and i'm someone that likes my own space so it's hard so
01:16:08
looking forward to the future then one of the things you said earlier was that you are the type of guy that like knocks on the door of your boss's office and
01:16:14
says listen i want that show this is what i want so tell me what it is that you want
01:16:21
looking forward professionally in your in your future my my as to where i am right now i'm very
01:16:28
happy where i am right now like very happy therefore i'm not urging myself to to
01:16:35
knock on any doors genuinely there are things that i feel passionate about which i really feel like i'm going to make this and i want to make this
01:16:42
going back to you know schools and mental health which i think is a really important thing and i have a
01:16:47
platform and to be able to do it so i will do that i think the common question i always get
01:16:53
asked is oh yeah so what's the next step tv and it's like
01:16:59
no it's i'm 28 years old and and i've got in my opinion the best job
01:17:06
in the uk i get to wake up every day and and feel like i'm back at school waking people up every day
01:17:13
that time will come that pressure that i'll put on myself to go and find the next thing or to think about where i
01:17:19
want to move next will come later on right now i'm in a genuine position
01:17:24
where i love what i do i get up at 3 o'clock but second i'm there i'm happy
01:17:30
and and enjoying it and i don't feel like
01:17:36
you know we spoke about this earlier on as a as a presenter like if i came out a
01:17:41
radio tomorrow i'd be worried i'd be thinking oh [ __ ] have i been on tv enough this month have
01:17:46
i have i tweeted enough have i done instagram enough like i i love the fact that my job now i
01:17:53
don't have to think about that i don't have to post on instagram if i don't want to because i've just spoken
01:17:59
to seven million people that week do you know what i mean and and been with them through a journey every single
01:18:05
day the pandemic was an amazing thing like in terms of
01:18:10
i remember i had two weeks two weeks holiday in april 2020
01:18:16
and i was going to take it and my dad called me he was like you can't i was what do you mean you can't go on
01:18:23
holiday he was like this is this is like the most important time that you will ever have
01:18:28
to to to you know be with people and go through this with
01:18:33
them you can't just walk away they're relying on you to do that this is your responsibility to do it you actually got
01:18:39
quite angry because it was just like that is your responsibility to do that to provide some form of normality for those people
01:18:45
and um and so i did and you know throughout the pandemic it was you just we created
01:18:51
these relationships with people that are working you realize how much radio means and you you create friendships with listeners
01:18:57
and with people up and down the country that you meet and that to be able to go in every day
01:19:02
and so it's my job is an amazing thing and i really truly genuinely love it
01:19:08
in the spirit of one of the things you said to me during this conversation now that we've been talking for a little while i feel like i have to ask you yeah
01:19:15
how are you doing i'm doing all right i'm doing all right there are bad days there are bad days
01:19:20
where you know you kind of you kind of think you know did i really
01:19:26
want to be in talking about suicide do i really want to be going over a trauma that's in my head
01:19:32
you know do i want to sack in the whole job and and just i've got enough money now to live a
01:19:38
knife nice little life somewhere quiet and just go and do that
01:19:44
but i think those are all kind of moments in my life
01:19:49
that are you know moving forward and like you said like i think there's so much
01:19:56
more life for me to learn i think that i am happy if i think about it i am happy i'm i'm proud of the things that i've
01:20:03
achieved you know little things little things that i've achieved you know whenever people ask me
01:20:09
what am i gonna do in five years i'd rather say to them well this is what i did five years ago the last five years would look pretty
01:20:14
decent so i'm comfortable in my you know ability moving forward
01:20:20
you know i think that i'm definitely tired which is one thing
01:20:27
always tired what do you mean by that always like tired in a physical fatigued way okay which getting up at 4 30 will
01:20:33
do to you um but no i'm okay as i said there's updates and there's down days
01:20:40
but those down days i'm pleased as well that i've got a good core friend group around
01:20:45
me i'm glad that i've got my parents around me i'm glad that i've gone out there and i've taught myself the tools that i need to go and
01:20:51
fight mike tyson in there and be able to go up against him and
01:20:57
that's why i feel passionate to be able to go and do that for kids now we have a closing tradition oh yeah
01:21:04
each guest that comes on the podcast writes a question for the next guest inside of the diary of a ceo so um
01:21:11
okay how could you be more authentically
01:21:16
you
01:21:23
uh by being off my phone i'd say and i mean that just because when i did
01:21:28
i'm a celebrity get me out of here that was
01:21:34
the happiest i've ever been easily
01:21:40
in in there i was row which is what my friends know me as
01:21:45
that was me like this here is someone who
01:21:53
has to work has to do all these types of things and and that and has all these other sides but there i didn't have any
01:21:58
phone no expectation no nothing i completely forgot the cameras were on you all those types of situations
01:22:03
so so for sure the more i can stop working and enjoy moments without
01:22:10
work that's how i could be more authentic than me interesting
01:22:15
thank you so much honestly roman you know um you know i
01:22:21
the amount of um the amount of value that your openness to do what you're doing and i
01:22:28
see it as you are like doing a service for society and especially because of the
01:22:33
the horrific nature of the statistics surrounding like mental health and suicide i can't tell you even for me
01:22:40
what this conversation has done in terms of opening my eyes yeah and like i know like so i just i guess what i want to do
01:22:45
is i just wanted to thank you because i also i don't envy and i'm going to be honest i don't envy the position of people
01:22:52
coming up to me all the time and talking about a topic like that yeah i find it hard just even now people talk to me about oh here's my business idea
01:22:59
yeah yeah yeah i'm sure and sometimes i open my dms and i'm having a good day working out and then i'll see a message which is very which is of a similar vein
01:23:05
which is very very tragic and it will just push me off a little bit yeah so for you to
01:23:10
to choose knowingly to put yourself in the position of being a
01:23:15
involuntary advocate like the ambassador of this this topic is such a selfish do you find it hard
01:23:22
saying suicide you do
01:23:28
there's a little part of you that's not yourself it's so weird it's not a swear word when
01:23:33
i first did the documentary when i first did the documentary sorry to cut your phone no you know please please continue afterwards tell
01:23:39
me how great i am but but but when i first started making the documentary i felt like
01:23:46
you know we're going to talk about today we're going to talk about it's weird but it's it's a normal word
01:23:53
it's it's life it again it's the biggest killer for in men our age like suicide is a very normal word it makes you feel
01:23:59
uncomfortable doesn't it yes and that's what has to stop but i just could see in your eye there
01:24:04
yeah i was thinking about these dm's and i'm thinking i'm an ambassador suicide sounds you're not suicide it sounds like it's a really
01:24:11
emotional word yeah so with emotional words we tend to you know use them sparingly yeah but i was just intrigued
01:24:17
because it is something that i had let me finish off just
01:24:23
no but i genuinely mean that from the heart like it's it's what you're doing as i said i don't envy it's not easy but
01:24:30
the tremendous i think service it's doing to society at a time when we need it the most and we need people that are willing
01:24:35
to to have those conversations and be honest because a lot of men are are still caged is it's like impossible to
01:24:42
quantify i don't think you'll ever get to see the good you do but i just want you to know from my perspective and just on me personally from seeing that
01:24:48
documentary that oh god if i can't think of many greater goods that someone can do for men in this day and age so thank
01:24:55
you as a man but as just as a citizen of society as well thank you well i very much appreciate that and thank you uh
01:25:00
for forever being on your podcast thank you so much from roman appreciate it
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