00:00:00
we just had this sound and it was a car just rammed through the crowd and I just
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blacked out Make some noise for black
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CFE I hardly had a child who I was always working and I used to hate it
00:00:19
growing up because I just felt like well when when am I going to become a child you know and play like other kids the
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10th of February tell me about that day man that was a scary thing for me when I
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went to the hospital no one knew what to do I would literally close my eyes I wouldn't know whether it's here or here
00:00:41
or here or so it was paralyzed at that point yeah I stayed for 3 months in the hospital you know and that depressed me
00:00:47
even more music helped me so much it brought me peace this is why I share it
00:00:54
it's my way of healing people the same way it healed me
00:01:00
my childhood where I come from those things scare me why do those things scare you cuz it's a story it was for
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years hard for me to share so what happened is I before this conversation starts I've
00:01:14
got a favor to ask from you 74% of people that watch this podcast frequently haven't yet hit the Subscribe
00:01:20
button and 9% of people haven't yet hit the Bell to turn notifications on the bigger this platform gets the bigger the
00:01:27
guests get so if you could do me one favor if you if you ever enjoyed this podcast please hit the Subscribe button
00:01:32
and turn notifications on without further Ado I'm Steven Bartlett and this is the Diary of a CEO I hope nobody's
00:01:39
listening but if you are then please keep this to [Music]
00:01:49
yourself so the question that I always start this podcast with because I I I I studied childhood psychology for a little while and it was Illuminating to
00:01:55
me how much of our early years end up defining and shaping us how we become so
00:02:01
that early context before 12 years old what what did that look like for
00:02:06
you um when I was born my my parents were were married my mom was super young
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I was the first one um two other siblings at the time uh my
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M married very extremely young probably like 22 23 already with three kids
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divorcing um we were moved to live with our grandmother from the maternal side and
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she's the one who raised us and she used to work in a general
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hospital in the sewing room but I saw her working extremely hard to go for
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everything she wanted you know like I look back and try to imagine how much money
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she was earning and look at the achievements like changing her Mud
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House into a a big
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designed respectable house and she did this Bit by Bit by Bit And as a kid I
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was there and I saw it whatever little money she would have she would buy the bricks it will wait she buy sand it
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waits she buy gravel it waits everything slowly so that's what I
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learned from her like to be assertive you you wake up you go work also the
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strongest thing that I learned from her is she had cows and she was the only woman in the
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area you know who had cows you know and she was single woman
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and my job was to every morning go milk the cows before I go to school every
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afternoon after school so I hardly had a child who had like a time to play as a
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child out I was always working 5:00 5:30 from 11 years old every single
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day and um that was my environment you know where I'm like okay whatever you
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need you just you have to work there's no other way and so for the few
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years she would make sure I'm up she would make sure you know I'm on time and eventually it was my thing she didn't
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have to wake me up she didn't have to tell me when to go she didn't have to if there was a problem with the the cars I
00:04:34
knew what was wrong if I needed to get medication from the pharmacy you know I
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I understood everything eventually it became my thing you know
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um that's that's my childhood where was your father uh my father remained in
00:04:52
deran and remarried so he started another family he worked in a factory uh
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um they for a company called bacon they made sweets and
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chocolates um that's where he worked and he just didn't
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have he was a nice guy but he wasn't present you know so on holidays we go
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see him you know he would have nothing to say he wasn't the guy who was like how was your day how was school
00:05:30
you know any advice type of thing you know he wasn't it was just like the way
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he was you know um yet my grandmother was the she was
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the man and a woman so she's the one who basically and I used to hate it growing
00:05:49
up because I just felt like well when when am I going to become a child you know and play like other kids and she
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was like this she was super straight she was like assertive
00:06:03
hardworking you know that's hardly time to do like all the like the games like
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other kids were doing you know so I grew up with that kind of focus which I hated
00:06:17
because I wanted to be a kid you know but then it taught me so much
00:06:24
about just work having a work ethic and um
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that's how I'm able to just pick up and and leave wherever I can you
00:06:37
know I always referenced this conversation I had with the with the guy that trained Michael Jordan and Kobe and
00:06:42
he told me that you know these things when we're young they end up being the consequence of our of our greatness of
00:06:48
our talent these hard these hardships we have but they also always come with a cost so the lack of play the lack of a a
00:06:55
father figure the situation of you growing up in a house where you didn't have a electricity you're milking cows
00:07:01
your your you know your food is cooked by you creating a fire
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Etc what is what is the cost I I can the the lesson and the value it gave you is
00:07:12
so clear but what is the cost lots um um one of them is just being to
00:07:21
myself you know um to a point where I have a very small circle of friends
00:07:28
because I was never just a social guy you know um so I
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was as a kid I always had to do all the work
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alone cuz your friends will sometimes come you know but then they realized
00:07:46
okay every day you know so they're not going to always come so I was always like a loner growing up and then I kind
00:07:55
of like got comfortable that got
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comfortable with trusting my thoughts and my decisions you know like being
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confident in just myself uh without needing
00:08:12
people you know and that has like affected a lot of like personal
00:08:17
relationships where if I just feel a little bit
00:08:23
uneasy I will just remove myself and it's not hard for me because I'm like
00:08:29
what I really know is myself you know but it's it's
00:08:35
um um something I want to start working
00:08:41
on because I'm quick to create a
00:08:46
comfortable space you know I can meet a stranger and I'm quick to just
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like but I I'm much quicker to move as well you know and it's it's something
00:08:59
that that I feel is not like um
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real you know but it's doable because I'm always on the move and and and and
00:09:10
you know but um there are things that I'm like I need to work on you
00:09:16
know um typically you know I think there's a bit of a stereotype that that black men aren't the best at emotions
00:09:23
and some some people point at sort of generational cycles for that um did you learn how to express your when you were
00:09:30
young no I was terrible at it um and there was
00:09:36
no one like I said my grandmother was quite tough so and I look at how I am with my kids
00:09:44
you can see when you've pushed a little bit hard you know in
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conversation with with someone and you're are able to bring them back you know and explain like look I'm sorry you
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know I was a out there this is why and you know
00:10:04
like so that they understand all the Dynamics you know and the older
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generation was the one that will whip you you know and tell you it's going to
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hurt me that more than it hurts you and that's it you'll get over it because as
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a child you have unconditional love for your parent you'll eventually get over
00:10:29
it and you're the one coming back making jokes like nothing happened you know um
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but I didn't have like a good role model in in
00:10:40
anything even this you know uh I used to like avoid I still
00:10:47
do this uh doing interviews because there's just
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again Society pressure that
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if I'm good at making music am I good in public
00:11:06
speaking so if I play songs nice am I now a role model to your children more
00:11:13
than you you know but Society will say oh don't act this way my kids look up to
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you and I'm like but I I'm just a DJ who's living his life and all of a
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sudden it's like no no no but you can't uh you can't tweat like this because um
00:11:32
it's you you know so in in the beginning all I wanted to
00:11:38
do was just to play music like I was that kid even if I'm not invited at a party I bring my record box and I wait
00:11:44
and I hope they give me a chance you know like that's all I wanted to do why why
00:11:51
music uh because it's always been my um
00:11:57
Escape you know in that house where I used to to leave and all I did was work and then in my
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room music helped me so much to dream of these moments you know like if I listen
00:12:09
to to Michael Jackson I imagine where he lives or in America and that one day
00:12:14
I'll go there you know um that's it it really like took me to all these places
00:12:22
so it became my my friend you know um and I
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never had an explanation as to even then
00:12:33
what I would do with it like when I finish high school I'm like I'm going to go to college and study and my cousins
00:12:40
were like are you crazy then what are you going to do I didn't know do do you want to be a teacher I'm
00:12:47
like no but this is what I want to do as long as I was surrounded by by music
00:12:52
that's all I wanted to do you know uh because it just it brought me so much
00:12:57
peace happiness you know and this is why I
00:13:03
share it I share it because of what it does to me you know it's
00:13:11
my it's my way of healing people the same way it healed
00:13:17
me I don't know if I'm making sense make perfect sense you know I sat here and i i s i I sat with the biggest comedians
00:13:24
in this country and typically with comedians The Stereotype is that the comedian
00:13:29
is depressed that so they started cracking jokes and then one of the comedians came here and said to me he
00:13:34
said you shouldn't be asking you should never ask a comedian if they're depressed because it's usually that they were doing comedy because one of their
00:13:41
parents were depressed so comedy became a way for them to see a smile on their mother's face for the first time or to
00:13:47
see their father Smile For the First Time music and the role it played in your
00:13:52
household and just in your environment outside of yourself um I was wondering
00:13:57
as you're saying that is it all something that created happiness in others when you were young that you saw
00:14:03
like your your family or your yeah um before we moved uh uh to to my
00:14:11
grandmother's place in the Eastern Cape the structure of my family back then
00:14:18
was my entire family lived in one house or not entire but my father and his
00:14:26
brothers so there was about four families and that's where music was like
00:14:34
a thing you know one of my uncles my father's brother had a like a
00:14:42
small um called them ghetto blasters yeah yeah so he was the music guy he
00:14:48
loved re he used to play re a lot that's where I My First Love for re came from
00:14:54
like anything as a kid I I used to know different Peter Tosh albums Bob Mary and
00:15:01
the Whalers and all that kind of music and every now and then then it will be the pop that was happening at the time
00:15:08
and he will take it out and all of us will be out there and we will dance you know uh that's that's my my ear
00:15:16
childhood memories with music is that in that big family when it's hot and it's summer and we're just all outside and he
00:15:23
plays the music and and now we dance anything with with music you would find
00:15:29
me that's why I never knew what I would do with it you know uh but I just knew I
00:15:34
wherever it is sometimes they will send me to to the shops and in the township sometimes
00:15:42
there will be like a big Coca-Cola truck maybe they're promoting a new flavor and it's parked in this they play music they
00:15:49
send me to buy bread and I don't come back like literally cuz I'm just there
00:15:55
like I'm just listening to music you know I don't leave Lally and I get into trouble you know so wherever there was
00:16:02
music that's how I got into it cuz my cousin who's also our neighbor him and
00:16:09
his friend had a mobile sound system so they were doing weddings like graduation parties and and so during the week he'll
00:16:17
have the sound system connected like just small speaker and he play loud music and I'll go there so I'll spend
00:16:23
days there and then I started like they used to use like cassettes and and you
00:16:29
rewind with the pan so that's how I started and I would like learn and I was curious and then
00:16:36
they will take me to the day parties then I'll be the opening DJ you know but I was so curious
00:16:43
that I developed the style of playing you know uh I was a little bit advanced
00:16:50
in understanding tempos of the songs and so I wouldn't just randomly
00:16:57
play I play songs that were close together in Temple and so all of a
00:17:04
sudden the mixes were like almost Flawless and people were like then I
00:17:09
became their main DJ you know by 145 I was like their main DJ and the people
00:17:15
booking them would tell them bring that black boy I like super dark as a kid
00:17:22
bring him you know and then I was more cheer then I started collecting records
00:17:27
then I but 10 and which were my own and they bring the system I plug more things
00:17:34
you know and then when I finish school and I moved to another city back to Devin where there was
00:17:40
more access to things and I I really got into it so I was studying jazz music but
00:17:48
I was a DJ on the side and sometimes I would bring tenta into the school Studio
00:17:54
you know um it was such a fascinating thing for the Jaz students because we
00:18:01
were there like learning Jazz scales and like the theory
00:18:06
of music and I'm here with my DJing equipment you know at some point
00:18:12
actually while I was a jazz student and a DJ I did a a classical
00:18:18
play like all three same time you know because me and a friend of mine uh in
00:18:25
the hallway at school because we were in the choir we were singing one of the songs we we sang in
00:18:33
high school in the choir and one of the school lecturers had us and she was shocked because we were Jazz students
00:18:39
she was like wow you guys you know this is classical music like you sound so nice there's a play that's happening at
00:18:47
the playhouse called the Pirates of penans if you like cool so we went we
00:18:54
auditioned we got the parts so we would do chess studies after school we go
00:19:00
practice at the playhouse and we went to perform we did
00:19:05
um I was opening the show like I was a tener you know um just anything that had
00:19:12
to do with music so from from Jazz when I was young sorry uh
00:19:18
re then I went through different stages then there was a time where I was like
00:19:24
obsessed with like fusion um the then gospel music then
00:19:31
classical music so and I didn't understand what I was being prepared for you know all these years I kept
00:19:38
being exposed to different types and I'm a DJ so then my taste varies based on understanding
00:19:46
these different genres that's why I was able to in 2010 do a show with the 24
00:19:51
piece Orchestra because 8,000 people yeah in the stadium so course I was exposed to
00:19:57
this music and I knew knew where to breach you know the Gap the 10th of
00:20:04
February pivotal day in your life yeah tell me about that
00:20:09
day man 1990 yeah I was talking to to someone about it cuz it's a story that
00:20:16
it was for years hard for me to share you know and I'm in a better space now
00:20:23
I'm I'm able to talk about it um Street Grand mother we at
00:20:31
home uh on the 10th which was like around 800 at night
00:20:39
and she was super strict um no one comes out the house that late we were sitting in the house I think after dinner we
00:20:46
hear like people singing outside we all come out everyone I mean comes out to
00:20:52
see what's happening and there was people singing there were a group of people about to pass our house we run to
00:20:59
the crowd with my cousins you know we were not allowed to but this was nice so it wasn't a big thing even I mean for
00:21:07
her but my cousin my cousins went back I didn't why music so I followed the crowd
00:21:17
and the reason this was happening is because on the 11th of
00:21:24
February Nelson Mandela was officially coming out of jail after 27 years so
00:21:30
there was like jubilations around the entire country this was happening in all the major cities where people were like
00:21:36
we're going to stay up all night until the morning you know uh of his release
00:21:42
so this crowd was going to a stadium which is close to my house
00:21:49
um that's where the the camping was going to be the singing until the
00:21:54
morning in the stadium so they went on the streets basically Gathering more crowds and we were out close to the
00:22:02
stadium and just out of nowhere we just had this sound um and it was a car just came out
00:22:11
of nowhere lights off just rammed through the crowd um so I was I was not
00:22:19
in the front but I was maybe like 20% in and I just blacked
00:22:27
out um and the people were screaming and when I woke
00:22:32
up um there was fire you know people were angry so basically this driver
00:22:39
Switched Off the Lights to literally just kill people
00:22:45
with his car and um so they bent the car
00:22:50
well they bent the guy too and um they burnt the guy yeah they pulled him out
00:22:55
the car and killed him yeah literally and he stayed there for hours actually
00:23:02
without anyone coming for him cuz I remember this happened around 4: in the
00:23:09
morning went to a hospital around maybe 30 minutes later the cars
00:23:15
took us to hospital I came back from the hospital around 78 he was still there
00:23:22
like not even covered his car he was still lying there on the ground
00:23:28
uh that cost his life and someone else's life who was also in the
00:23:34
crowd um so by that time I mean it's 7 in the morning I'm back from hospital the announcement happens Nelson
00:23:42
Mandela is finally out of jail we're watching this from TV I'm sitting on the
00:23:47
couch you know there's just chaos in the country people are so happy this man is
00:23:54
finally out and um I was on the couch in pain you know uh
00:24:02
after the accident and I think what really happened to me I don't think the
00:24:08
car reached to me I don't think the car touched me I think the force of the
00:24:16
people that were in front because of the impact they pushed so hard so what
00:24:23
happened is I dislocated my shoulder but severely
00:24:28
I had no bruises no cards it just came
00:24:33
off meaning um my nerves that connect the arm to the body were
00:24:42
snatched and being in a small town when I went to the hospital no one knew what
00:24:48
to do so I'm there I'm holding my arm like they don't know if it's broken they
00:24:54
don't know what to do with it you know so they just gave me a sling and pain
00:25:00
tablets and I went back home but the pain was couldn't stop and then um the
00:25:06
following day then I went to deran which is the bigger city to go to like a
00:25:12
bigger hospital where I stayed for three months in the hospital you know and even there
00:25:18
they didn't know what to do one morning they were like okay uh we figured it out they put a cast so I'll have a cast for
00:25:26
like two weeks but the damage was here but I was a kid as well so I didn't understand you know
00:25:34
um so the injury is called braal plexis which is um a damage of of nerves and
00:25:42
there's nothing you can do to fix damage nerves they can only fix themselves so
00:25:47
over time um so they Tred different things at some point I remember I was
00:25:53
being taken to like a specialist to see if there was life on
00:25:58
my arm so um because they were thinking of amputating my arm so they put this
00:26:07
device that had electricity to see if it's going to I'm going to fill it and there was just like
00:26:16
probably like 5% of life and he was like no we don't have to
00:26:21
do it over time the nerves will grow back and that's what has happened you know and as a kid I mean I was 14 it was
00:26:29
lifechanging you know um the things I wouldn't I wasn't able to do uh then
00:26:37
activities there was just things I I couldn't I was in a music class you know
00:26:44
um so I couldn't participate when on the piano uh like lessons and we used to
00:26:50
play recorders and so I went through a phase where it really affected me and
00:26:58
and just over time I was like actually I have a life to live when you say you
00:27:05
went through a phase where it really affected you what what does that mean specif like why me I mean I mean when
00:27:10
when you are born fine all of a sudden and kids can be mean so the name calling
00:27:17
comes and you know cuz also I thought it was going to pass and I would as a kid even have dreams you know I wake up I'm
00:27:23
like oh I had a dream last night my hand was working and I was doing this and you
00:27:29
know and so to me it was like maybe next week maybe next month you know I'm going
00:27:36
to be fine again and so I went through a lot of that you know and then eventually
00:27:43
acceptance I okay this is what it is you know um I
00:27:49
have to leave I have to move on and I kind of like stopped thinking about it
00:27:56
and just focused on what's next how do I learn
00:28:03
to um tie my shoes you know um or just
00:28:09
wake up and do everything without calling for help that was the most
00:28:14
important thing for me because I didn't want to feel sorry for myself that's the most important thing where I was like I
00:28:22
need to learn how to not to call anyone for anything zero like then that was a big
00:28:31
thing for me what's the what condition is your left your left arm in now as we sit here
00:28:38
um it has gained probably like 40% movement and
00:28:48
um let me put it this way when it happened I would literally close my eyes
00:28:54
and I would know it was okay so it was paralyzed at that point yeah the whole arm I wouldn't know
00:29:01
whether it's here or here or here or you know um so over time I've started
00:29:08
feeling things I can differentiate between hot water and cold
00:29:14
water um and every now and then cuz that's another thing I used to do
00:29:19
physiotherapy a lot and I was a kid and I used to after school I go and I train and that and that depressed me even more
00:29:26
because I was waiting for results you know and I thought I'm training for
00:29:32
muscle that wasn't coming so I couldn't see anything and when I stopped I stopped
00:29:39
everything I stopped thinking about it I stopped waiting for it to be better acceptance yeah
00:29:45
so uh even now it's like if I woke up and it was fine do I
00:29:54
even need it that's where I'm at like doesn't really matter you know um I
00:30:01
think my life has turned out exactly how it's supposed to this happened to you
00:30:06
when you were 14 but you didn't share it with the world until 2017 in in a Facebook post yeah because as an artist
00:30:14
I just felt like I did not want to be seen as that
00:30:20
guy um who has a disability you know uh where
00:30:29
it's like oh you know like um I didn't want a PT party you know I
00:30:36
just wanted to be understood and had like everyone else
00:30:43
you know so my first album came out in
00:30:49
2005 that's it I just worked on music released it I used to DJ the way I do
00:30:55
and people think Sky play with his hand in his pocket what's with that you know
00:31:01
like it looks cool but what's you know I thought I thought you were just the coolest
00:31:06
[ __ ] people like cuz the hand thing in the pocket happened when I was a kid and cuz I used to have the
00:31:13
slinging and even when I run with other kids and I us to have to hold this hand because it was just moving everywhere
00:31:20
and one day I was like I just put it in the pocket and I was like damn this is more functional than having a sling
00:31:28
and I never stopped you know and so it wasn't even a thing like that was like so deep it just happened when I was
00:31:35
young and I was like actually I feel comfortable like this and over time it became you know a thing cuz also being
00:31:45
um the introvert that I am it helps me in not explaining myself cuz everyone
00:31:52
even now there's [Music] um there's things like like that um I'm
00:31:58
support you can buy them from Pharmacy I have them so when I'm home I use that
00:32:05
and or when I have people at my house I use it or when I swim and even people
00:32:10
who know me are like are you okay what happened you know these were things I
00:32:16
was avoiding to be having to explain myself all the time like you know um I
00:32:22
was like I sit and I look normal like everyone else and there people promise
00:32:27
you in my life today who don't know
00:32:33
and it's fine did it make you work harder or have
00:32:40
to work harder to get to where you are today definitely definitely uh especially as a
00:32:47
DJ you know um because I just felt like this thing was trying to rob me of this
00:32:55
one thing that I really really love and I will not allow it you know um so it
00:33:02
made me in that sense not even in a sense of who's going to employ me I'm
00:33:07
[ __ ] my life is a mess it was like if there's one thing I'm not going to lose
00:33:14
is music you know I won't stop I have to be a DJ I have to I have to and I'm from a
00:33:22
the cassette era to the vinyl I mean how do you take a vinyl out of a
00:33:28
final package with one hand and this used to stress me and when I look at it
00:33:33
I'm like how will I become a professional DJ you know and it takes me not or it
00:33:40
took me not thinking I just like did it you know
00:33:46
like I'm like this is one thing I want to do so I just went all the way I I would go
00:33:52
to school I remember there was a time where I would spend at least two hours
00:33:58
every day DJing for I didn't play for a club or
00:34:04
every day two hours of my time because I and I used to say this like I just want
00:34:10
to be ready like one day when someone says you're a DJ I'm must boldly say
00:34:16
yeah am you know and I look now and I play sometimes I'm
00:34:23
like man you good like I look at I'm like wow you know because
00:34:33
I developed the style you know um of playing that is my own based on
00:34:42
understanding myself and what I can do you know
00:34:48
um I have a friend uh Sandra we grew up with he's also a DJ
00:34:54
and when I started like back in the day like really when I was spending time
00:35:00
practicing I I used to be really crazy and he says this all the time that they don't even know how crazy you are
00:35:06
because now I don't do I don't do anything I just play less is more you
00:35:12
know I'm more experienced now but my understanding of it is like on on a
00:35:18
different level you know but I'm at a space where I'm like I don't have to
00:35:23
do you know that's where I'm at I think I have to yeah yeah I don't have to
00:35:29
because I've been there it's like learning the basic course and you go to
00:35:35
the advanced course you know uh go Advanced
00:35:40
driving doesn't mean you're going to come on the road and drive like you were on the advanced driving school you know
00:35:47
it's just understanding and knowing like when I look at this thing it's part of me the deck yeah
00:35:56
quick word from one of my sponsors um super excited to announce that our new sponsor for the podcast is Intel a brand
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particularly excited to announce the sponsorship because we've been using Intel's technology throughout this building and on this podcast for some
00:36:40
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so head over to intel. co.uk and you can find out why they've become an essential piece of technology in my day-to-day
00:36:51
routine let me know what you think my girlfriend came upstairs yesterday when I was having a shower and she said to me
00:36:56
that she tried the C protein shake which lives on my fridge over there and she said it's amazing low calories you get
00:37:02
your 20 odd grams of protein you get your 26 vitamins and minerals and it's nutritionally complete in the protein
00:37:07
space there's lots of things but it's hard to find something that is nice especially when consumed just with water
00:37:13
and that is nutritionally complete and that has about 100 calories in total
00:37:18
while also giving you your 20 grams of protein if you haven't tried the heal protein product do give it a try The
00:37:25
Salted Caramel one if you put put some ice cubes in it and you put it in a blender and you try it is as good as
00:37:33
pretty much any milkshake on the market just mixed with water it's been a game changer for me because I'm trying to drop my calorie intake and I'm trying to
00:37:39
be a little bit more healthy with my diet so this is where heuel fits in my life thank you here for making a product
00:37:44
that I actually like The Salted Caramel is my favorite I've got the banana one here which is the one my girlfriend likes but for me salted caramel is the
00:37:52
one when you were asked I think you you were in your early 20s they asked you you know I think you just was that
00:37:58
around the time You' done the Red Bull um your your early 20s they asked you in an interview where you were going to be
00:38:04
in two years oh man do you remember that was a scary thing for me
00:38:10
um I remember that I'll never forget it you know I don't think that was me talking you know I
00:38:16
just um it was it was Black
00:38:23
Coffee someone I wasn't yet you know um cuz I I was never that guy you know I
00:38:30
didn't I didn't have I don't want to insult my schools and say I didn't have the right
00:38:37
education but you know I look at my kids schools where they go to they learn public speaking they know how to present
00:38:44
themselves and they know how to get across a point a point across they know how to
00:38:49
speak and I'm I'm not from there everything
00:38:54
that I kind of like have I had to figured it out myself you know and so
00:39:00
doing an interview then being asked this question and at the worst time of my
00:39:06
life then and give and and give that answer because the question was where do you
00:39:12
see yourself and I said they said in two years and I said in five years just gave myself time I
00:39:20
said in five years I'm going to be one of the most important producers I don't know if I said of the
00:39:26
continent or the country country you know which actually I'm proud of that
00:39:31
because it could have been worse you know I could have said I want to be number one I want to be the best
00:39:38
[ __ ] I would I would have said something crazy like Pumpers you know my
00:39:44
answer was still like very modest and but I was clear about what I wanted you know uh but
00:39:52
after saying it I freaked out because then I realized I need to own this I need to own it and I need to then start
00:40:00
working towards it you know and yeah then two years later which was
00:40:07
the question I released my album and I won my first award for best album you know
00:40:15
which was low key then I was the best producer in the genre in the country you know uh but I
00:40:24
think I don't know like if it's the awards
00:40:31
that drive me or just success
00:40:36
itself because it's the narrative that oh he probably I get a grm like he wants
00:40:43
something more he wants more he wants more and I don't think I look at things
00:40:48
like that I think I just know that um I can do more than an award I
00:40:55
can do more than an achievement I can do more than you know I'm
00:41:02
capable that's it that's what I'm I'm I'm I'm fighting for you know uh and
00:41:08
it's a little boy in me who was milking cows who had no friends who is
00:41:15
like I can especially coming from where I come from and that's it it's never really
00:41:23
about I'm the smartest one and I'm I'm going to the best one uh I'm the most
00:41:30
gifted one it's just like I started with nothing I'm from like nowhere really
00:41:35
like so and I had nothing to lose you know so I I threw myself in and
00:41:42
I just want to keep going when you look back at the you know you said that in
00:41:47
your early 20s two years later your album wins um wins that amazing award your career continues to go to the Moon
00:41:55
um when you look back in in hindsight with wisdom and say ah cuz I think it's
00:42:00
always in hindsight you go that's why I got here you've talked about the obsessiveness yeah I get that I get the
00:42:06
drive the hunger but as it relates to the creativity and the the craftsmanship
00:42:11
and all the other things why you and why not some other young you know South
00:42:17
African DJ from the Eastern C uh I
00:42:22
think um it's what I think it's just being in intentional
00:42:28
about what you want um the people I work
00:42:33
with from the beginning there always just like the
00:42:38
goal is similar we we don't try to I don't think we Chase number
00:42:45
one you know we just we we we just want
00:42:50
quality we strive for Quality we understand the less is more concept
00:42:58
um I've never and I've tweeted this once in my country as well I've never gone
00:43:05
for like I want song of the year those things scare me I just want
00:43:11
to release music that has the kind of substance that I love why do those
00:43:18
things scare you because I just feel like then you have to keep chasing the number one so if I am this year then I
00:43:26
must be next year otherwise then there's a deep that's going to come with that if I'm not
00:43:33
so we do what we comfortable with because what we comfortable with we can do it again you know and improve it and
00:43:40
improve it so the goal is always the same like not to try
00:43:46
and go mainstream it's just be
00:43:53
comfortable you know you can wake me up tomorrow and be like can you make a song
00:43:59
like drive I'll be like I can probably better
00:44:05
then oh I can never make that song again because wow you know it's in my space
00:44:11
you know everything is in my sound Bank everything I work with is always around
00:44:17
you know and also I think now I'm clearer as to who I am as an artist you
00:44:25
know I'm more of um I'll say 65%
00:44:33
DJ that's where all my energy is then
00:44:39
35% um uh producer having sat here with with Diplo
00:44:46
and other um artists Jesse J um the boys from One Direction Li pay what I heard
00:44:53
over and over again from them is that with success in music there becomes more authority figures record labels Etc
00:45:01
telling you how you should sound and telling you that if you sound like this then you'll get a number one and it'll
00:45:06
be mainstream etc etc how important over the course of your career as you look back has it been to try and stay true to
00:45:12
yourself despite the temptation to fit someone's that's an easy part for us you
00:45:21
know because first of all what am I looking for like what I just explain to
00:45:27
you now as being a More DJ than a
00:45:33
producer so DJing pays our bills that's our Core
00:45:38
Business therefore that's where we're going to be strongest and releasing music is the
00:45:46
second part of the business um so it being the second part part of the business means it's not the
00:45:53
main thing and so there's no pressure in then following all the trends that come
00:46:01
and and I've been quite fortunate uh in my career from the
00:46:07
beginning when I released my first album I released it with the licensing
00:46:14
deal meaning I did it on my own and I submitted you know to a label so no one
00:46:20
could say we don't like number five take out number seven don't you want to fix
00:46:26
number number two you know it was a Dar and package album and that's been the nature of my
00:46:35
production career where the last album that I did was the
00:46:41
first album with the a label in the US where there was
00:46:47
that um Authority you know and it would mostly
00:46:54
come as we're not sure about this one but what I
00:47:00
did I separated my African
00:47:06
releases from the global releases therefore when they're like
00:47:11
we're not sure I'm like it's okay I'll release it in Africa where I know it will make more
00:47:16
sense and also it fits the sound that I'm doing that I wanted to you know so I
00:47:23
remember one of the songs I released was a song called your eyes with the South
00:47:29
African artist called shik brilliant song and they were like
00:47:36
H released it and immediately after it came out they changed their minds they were like okay maybe not we'll we'll
00:47:43
also release the song you know because we were not following what they want you know and we
00:47:49
were cool with it you know um then after I released an EP called music is King
00:47:55
which was purely purely for like the African Market because even now
00:48:04
I I don't have a label uh so I don't have to have these
00:48:09
conversations about what song I want to do and how does it sound um but still when I do my team
00:48:18
knows I want to separate the two Africa must be on its own because one day I may
00:48:23
wake up and be like I've always been a fan of cific I want to do a song with Salif ker and when you do a song with
00:48:30
Salif ker being a gy winning artist if you put that song on an album
00:48:37
that album might not be nominated on the dance electronic
00:48:44
album because the language is foreign they will take that album and Sh it with
00:48:49
the world music that means you're competing against your African brothers and
00:48:56
sisters is which is what I really hate so my point is I then separate the two
00:49:02
if I want to do a single with an African artist I can do that if I want to do
00:49:09
like a Grammy quality kind of work I can still do it but I'm fortunate not to
00:49:16
have those kind of Gatekeepers and Authority that tell me no and I can
00:49:22
understand with the deep in them you know they their structures are different but we we fortunate to we we've structed
00:49:29
our things well how many shows so you said 60% DJing how many shows do you do
00:49:35
in a busy year I don't know man um
00:49:42
IA this summer I think I did 21 just alone all Saturdays at high right yeah
00:49:48
yeah I was there for two of them so yeah just Saturdays alone in Visa like 21 of them and subing then since May so
00:49:55
meaning every uh
00:50:02
weekend Thursday Friday I'm somewhere else Sunday I'm somewhere else every
00:50:07
weekend every weekend so Thursday Friday Saturday and Sunday and Sunday yeah
00:50:13
sometimes you're going to be flying around that's what we do yeah so before high I'm somewhere else after high I'm
00:50:20
somewhere else like I had a show here on a Sunday yesterday um show I have a show on
00:50:27
Tuesday tomorrow you know so sometimes it's Tuesday sometimes it's Wednesdays but
00:50:33
every summer it's like for every Saturday there's a Thursday and a Friday and a Sunday
00:50:40
sometimes how many shows is that in a year though if you were to add up is it because I read that it was more than 150
00:50:45
sometimes no it is yeah definitely that's a lot of shows I think I you know I had I did my
00:50:53
little tour of this podcast and we did nine and I was [ __ ] knacked
00:50:58
we did nine shows in two months and I was like I need to wait another year before I do that because of the
00:51:03
adrenaline and all the feelings and the emotion and the performance and it's late and whatever else how how no I
00:51:11
think at this point I mean um this is what we do you know if you
00:51:18
look at um you made a reference about Michael Jordan and coob can you imagine
00:51:25
like the hours they spend like to get to that level you know um it becomes second
00:51:32
nature you know the first thing that comes to mind is that little boy milking
00:51:38
cows I'm like this is a blessing so nine
00:51:44
shows you must have made good money for you to
00:51:50
complain I don't think we made any money but we we gave you like I'm done
00:51:58
retiring but I I do Wonder because you know I hear about the the kid that was milking the cows with no electricity
00:52:04
back in back in South Africa and I you know sometimes my fear is that that kid
00:52:11
is going to when that kid becomes an adult he will make decisions which will
00:52:16
compromise other needs because he's so driven to survive definitely at some point as you said before I think we
00:52:22
started recording you've got to step out of survival at some point and go live that's why therapy is such an important
00:52:29
thing you know uh for us I mean I I I've had so many different conversations with
00:52:35
South African artists um some I've had conflict with and you know when we meet and try to
00:52:43
solve the conflict I'm like let me tell you what's going to help all of us is therapy because how do I
00:52:51
go um from being that boy and you know living in the same
00:52:58
Community where like no one even looked at me you know and you first forward I'm
00:53:05
coming back to that same Community like in a Lamborghini and everyone wants a picture and it's um it's a mind [ __ ]
00:53:15
just to me you know so you need to really work on yourself when you cross that line where it's like someone you
00:53:23
looked up to uh uh as a kid you thought this guy is so successful and you realize that
00:53:32
actually you are the successful one so how is the shift then even in respecting
00:53:38
that person you know cuz then one is like I'm the king now you know then
00:53:45
another is like you still the king you did this before me I'm paying so much respect to you so it's it's a very thin
00:53:54
line between uh um seeing yourself as a
00:53:59
king over everyone else or knowing you are and still respecting everyone else
00:54:05
and that's the balance for me and it took me such a long time and I'm still battling and I'm working on it and I'm a
00:54:10
little bit better now in understanding the difference between Nati and black coffee what is the difference between
00:54:18
nauy and black coffee the little boy and yourself as a DJ um black coffee has all the
00:54:24
Privileges right like it's a joke in my house and sometimes
00:54:30
when uh I want to go eat in a restaurant and I I think late I'm like damn I need to go and you know and I have I tell my
00:54:37
sister please book and then she's like oh well not now it used to happen like that she's like oh it's fully booked and
00:54:44
then I'm like no but just tell them who's calling and then she's like oh yeah yeah
00:54:51
table for two sorted you know those are the packs of
00:54:57
those are black coffee packs where it's like if na cold the restaurant is
00:55:04
full is if black coffee called there's a seat for you there's a
00:55:09
table for you so na is a kid that grew
00:55:16
up going through magazine and seeing model girls you know like thinking wow
00:55:23
if one day I can have a girlfriend like this right that's nauy and but na never had
00:55:30
access to that and never would given where he comes from but black coffee
00:55:37
has access to that so then sometimes n uses Black Coffee
00:55:44
you know to to to satisfy nauy where it's like
00:55:53
instead of saying Hi I'm nauy it's oh you black coffee and I'm like hm
00:55:59
yeah you understand so it's a it's two different things to a point where even
00:56:04
where I live now it's crazy but that's how it is where I first bought myself a house this
00:56:12
is with my divorce story that's not even final I moved out of the house so I'm
00:56:18
like life is going to be so dope you know now that I'm a single guy and I
00:56:24
live in this apartment and and toyss I go back and like wow and then
00:56:30
toys over I'm back home I'm sitting I'm like this is my life you know like I
00:56:39
just the house I left I just finished building now I live in an apartment like a student let me look for a house for
00:56:46
myself then I look for a house and I found it so I have the house but now I'm like it's a big house but it's lonely
00:56:52
cuz I'm from family I leave alone so I'm like Mom don't don't you want to move and come stay with me which I think it's
00:56:58
a noble thing you know cuz my mom had like um heart problem so she moves and
00:57:04
then now I have the warmth of the family right it's nice and I'm like but is this
00:57:10
my life like I live with my mother so means I can't bring my friends
00:57:18
here like we can't have a little party because my mom is in the other room then
00:57:23
it bothers me so much and I think and I remember having a conversation with my friend I'm like
00:57:29
man I love it but at the same time I even told her you know I'm like I just
00:57:34
feel like I this can't be it you know where I'm like I'm about to finalize my
00:57:41
divorce and I live with my mother you know and the most incredible thing happened I get a phone call just
00:57:49
that week when it was stressing me so much I get a phone call it's the number I don't know I'm like yo and then this
00:57:54
guy's like uh my name is Michael I'm your neighbor and we have this long conversation on the phone and then he's
00:58:01
like by the way I'm selling my house and I'm going away we moving to another country
00:58:09
and just letting you know as a neighbor and I was like oh thank you God
00:58:16
because it was like um a solution so I bought the neighbor's
00:58:22
house and in my crazy head the neighbor's house that's where my mom and the
00:58:28
children are going to stay that's a naughty house right that's where you're going to
00:58:35
find me on the floor on the grass playing with my children the next door
00:58:40
that's the black coffee house I want to come to the Black Coffee
00:58:45
House you know but the thing is about the black coffee house which is what before we started recording you were
00:58:51
asking me what's on my mind and I was telling you Legacy Legacy Legacy I want to build black coffee
00:58:57
house as a like a black coffee house that would be like a future black coffee
00:59:02
house okay not a current black coffee house not current but it will be a future this is where he used to live ah
00:59:10
okay you know so I'm I'm very much intentional about the things I collect
00:59:16
the art on the wall um like everything that I do I'm doing to create value in
00:59:22
the house you know to have Ste come to this house and we take a picture by the
00:59:29
pool and it goes to the wall of of Fame oh nice you know so tell me when you
00:59:34
know like creates this value out of it you know any kind of friends that are
00:59:39
you know like unnown in the world that come to visit we we create all the memorabilia even even the suit I wore
00:59:47
the Grammys you know frame it and you know s kept it and the shoes and you
00:59:52
know like that's their whole idea to kind of like build um like a legacy project for my kids who are living next
01:00:00
door you know in a normal setting where uh they're not exposed to or
01:00:08
um their lives are normal you know you know like having a day with the kids in
01:00:14
the pool and then Drake's walk Drake is walking in you know like Steve B yeah
01:00:20
you know what I mean so have you that's the difference between the between black
01:00:25
coffee and I'm just like taking it that far where I'm understanding that they different
01:00:30
Dynamics when you told me the story of going from a divorce in a house to an apartment Penthouse to a house with your
01:00:36
mother to then moving next door back in on your own it sounded to me like someone that was struggling to try and
01:00:42
have the best of both worlds continually yeah because in your own words you were told
01:00:49
that the best life was to be married yeah tried that yeah you discovered that for you it wasn't so you went to back to
01:00:54
the penthouse yeah which is where yeah which I was like damn Bachelor single we're about to yeah and then you're in
01:01:00
the penthouse you go [ __ ] I need to be back in the house family environment yeah and then you get the mother back in
01:01:05
and the mom comes in you go [ __ ] actually no um the day my divorce is signed how
01:01:14
do I celebrate you know it can't be in front of my mother you know so you're right uh
01:01:23
but remember it's it's all the search that's what it is searching for
01:01:31
happiness and in the end I don't think we're going to be able to find and
01:01:38
Define it what is your happiness it's going to be
01:01:44
um it's not a destination you know it's going to be like um a series of different things you
01:01:52
know where boxes are ticked you know if all those boxes ticked though are you
01:01:57
then happy you can't tick them all cuz cuz life is is so long and we
01:02:05
keep discovering things to take you know and they all have different meanings you
01:02:10
know uh which is where the the small boys Journey end you know because if it
01:02:19
was the small boys boxes to tick by now we will be done you understand so there's boxes of
01:02:26
an adult like you're saying you live here and then you extend and then you know upstairs you keep and then you're
01:02:34
going to be like actually I need to buy another building that's how it is but
01:02:39
but all these things they we're never going to stop I often think that um I
01:02:45
was thinking there about advice and you know a lot of that advice tends to come from our parents but um I often think
01:02:53
that when we've come from a place of of hardship and I just think generally I think this a lot in my own life um there's words that I wish
01:03:01
I I said or could say now to my parents there's words that I wish I
01:03:08
could say to my um my mother my father you spoke so lovingly at the beginning of this conversation about the role that
01:03:14
your mother played in your life is your mother still with us yes she is y I spoke to her on my way here
01:03:23
she is y are there any words that you found difficult to say to
01:03:29
her um not anymore you know I love you was one of
01:03:35
them uh because she it it was
01:03:40
never part of our family as like an African family to have
01:03:48
that kind of formed and these kind of conversations you know um even even uh
01:03:55
hugs are still a little bit awkward but they still hugs because it's never been
01:04:00
their generation didn't do that you know uh they would show you and you would
01:04:07
know your parents love you the in the best way they they they
01:04:12
will do it you know and being a parent I am so much
01:04:18
aware of how I want to teach my kids to be
01:04:24
able to say it and like randomly hug them uh because I
01:04:31
never you know had that growing up and then in the end we are the ones who come
01:04:37
back and teach our parents you know no matter how awward it gets you know teach
01:04:44
them to say and they then they learn even though it's like it's not something they know con
01:04:52
yeah we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest of asks a question for the next guest they write it in the book they don't know who
01:04:58
they're writing it for the the question that was written for you and it's funny that oh oh oh
01:05:04
yeah they've written a question for you but they didn't know who they're writing it for which is the most amazing thing ever when you hear this
01:05:10
question what is your favorite
01:05:19
sound laughter why
01:05:27
because people laugh when they are happy and going back to what I said in
01:05:33
the beginning I think personally that's what we searching for as it's a human
01:05:41
race we just looking for happiness thank you thank you for being
01:05:46
so generous with your time thank you for giving me some of the best nights of my life thank you for um coming here inspiring me thank you for your your
01:05:53
vulnerability which I know will help so many people and thank you just for being a creative inspiration for me as I said I'm I'm trying to DJ at the moment I've
01:05:59
got my decks upstairs so um I I read that you're looking for you know young South African Talent
01:06:07
so come get me that's a South African from bana south of Africa I know I know
01:06:14
I know but yeah thank you so much it's um thank you man it's been a pleasure thank you appreciate appreciate your the
01:06:19
invitation it was really I was nervous about coming here you know like you know
01:06:25
open up and but it worked out well thank you thanks quick one we have a brand new
01:06:31
sponsor on this podcast which I'm very excited to tell you about they're a brand called Blue Jeans by Verizon and
01:06:36
they are a video conferencing and collaboration toour that has changed the game for our team so I'm so glad to be
01:06:42
working with them because as you know one of the most important things for me is when we have a sponsor it is part of
01:06:47
my world it is part of my life it is part of my companies as someone who's on calls pretty much 80% of the day
01:06:54
building my businesses speaking to my teams all over the world it's the guaranteed security that differentiates
01:07:00
blue jeans from all of the other options that are out there in terms of video conferencing their Enterprise grade
01:07:06
security means you can protect your organization from malicious attacks and establish real trust with everyone that
01:07:12
joins your meeting and that is something there are so many things that make sense
01:07:17
and and make blue jeans um a better option than the sort of competitors out there and I'll be talking about all of
01:07:23
those aspects those features and the reasons why I use blue jeans in the coming episodes if you want to check it
01:07:28
out you can head to www.bl jeans.com to learn more
01:07:36
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