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this week we're going to do something different on this podcast this podcast is about this podcast so many of you
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have asked me questions about this podcast how it works how big the team is how we pick and find guests how we make
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a successful podcast how you can build a successful social media channel or personal brand and also
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how much money you can make from a podcast at the end of the day i just sit
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here and talk i get to have interesting conversations with people i genuinely find interesting so i think people
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typically assume that having a podcast is just a labor of love now that is true
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i don't do this for the money i'm fortunate enough to have made a lot of money from the first company that i
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founded i do this because i love it of all the things of all the revenue streams i have in my life podcasting is
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my lowest financial return on the amount of time it takes me however this podcast will make millions
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this year so this week i'm going to tell you the truth about everything after all
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this podcast was founded on truth and honesty and i've not seen any other podcasters tell you the things that i'm
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about to tell you about this business about this medium and about this industry i'm going to show you exactly
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how much money i make from this podcast how i do it how i did it and how anyone else can do it too with
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six or seven simple pieces of advice i'm also going to tell you all the non-financial reasons you should
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start podcasting even if it never makes you a penny and some of these things are things that i came to learn over time
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some of the things i never ever expected and some of the things some of the upsides and benefits non-financial of
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starting a podcast have quite honestly changed my life so without further ado i'm stephen bartlett and this is the
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diary of a ceo i hope nobody's listening but if you are then please keep this to yourself
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[Music]
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so here's the thing i started doing this podcast three or four years ago with a 90 pound microphone that i bought in
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apple that i plugged into my laptop i put a duvet over my head 3am in the morning i went downstairs into the
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quietest part of my house there was no script no plan no team i
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edited it myself i um engineered the audio myself recorded it myself on my own and i sat there and just spoke into
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a microphone about my life and in that first episode episode one it was a total
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one-off experiment in my mind i never actually thought it would become multiple episodes or a season and that
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renowned line that people in the comment section often ask about that i just said i hope nobody's listening but if you are
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keep this to yourself was totally random i didn't plan to say that i said it because i was about to share my diary
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for the first time and i was unsure how being so vulnerable open and honest would be received so i jokingly asked
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anyone listening to keep it to themselves and obviously you guys didn't do that and here we are
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three years and 10 months later and the podcast is done very well it's now the most listened to business podcast in
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europe it's sat at number one in the charts almost consecutively for 40 weeks straight and as i said it's become a
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multi-million dollar business since since i founded it but and here is my first piece of advice if
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you're thinking about getting into the podcast game and this piece of advice i guess applies not just to starting a podcast but also
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to all facets of your professional and probably personal life i published my first podcast episode three years and 10
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months ago but for the first three years i was never ever consistent with my podcast when i started one month i might
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release an episode and then there might be a gap of like two months or three months or a couple of weeks then i'd pop up with another episode and then there'd
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be a huge gap again and so on and so on and so on and whenever i was consistent
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and managed to publish predictably every monday for several weeks in a row the podcast audience would grow and grow and
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grow and you could see on the graph that the podcast growth was compounding if i then took a month off
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it was almost like i was back to square one again you could see on the data when i had come back from my little hiatus
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less people were there to listen so i realized very quickly that if this podcast was going to really work and
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reach its full potential then i had to figure out how to be consistent so 10
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months ago i made the decision that no matter what we would publish an episode
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on monday every single monday and from that point onwards the growth absolutely
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exploded if you're watching this on youtube here's the actual graph of listeners from the minute i started
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being consistent with publishing the podcast every single monday um the growth exploded by 10x 10 times higher
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and as i said this is not a lesson on podcasting it's a lesson on all facets of life whether it's building a business
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getting millions of followers on instagram or even getting into the best shape of your life figuring out a way to reach that
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point of sustainable consistency was the key to explosive growth and progress that is a fundamental lesson of my
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entire life one that it genuinely took me 27 years to appreciate the value of being consistent at almost
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anything consistency unlocks everything it teaches you faster than everybody else it compounds growth and as it
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relates to content and building audiences it helps to establish a cadence which keeps them coming back for
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more if your podcast is once in a while or even broken down into seasons that
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have these sort of large gaps between them i seriously believe you're going to have
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a really difficult time growing your audience especially organically because
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people move on and they forget about you and you fall out of their routine we publish every monday morning at 7am
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because i know 50 roughly 50 of podcast listeners listen in transit which means
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on their way to work on a flight on a train on a walk or even like on a running machine at the gym so i want my
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audience to know that on monday morning before you start your week or as you're getting ready for the week ahead or
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during your monday morning commute you can count on me to be there every week
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right here and that predictability for your audience allows them to fit you
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into their habits and we are all creatures of habit my second piece of advice is also
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a tip about how to grow a podcast and how i grew this podcast when this podcast started it was me alone in my
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bedroom always in the early hours of the morning stumbling around with a wire my laptop in this cheap little microphone
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and i loved that i'm so happy that's where this podcast started it was great
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but me talking about myself to my existing audience was never going to grow this podcast significantly in an
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organic way in order to grow this podcast i had to find a way to reach new audiences and to pull them in so i
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opened up this podcast to other entrepreneurs to successful people to the guests you've seen to come here and
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share their diary in the way that i did when i started this podcast and those guests bring their audience with them
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and the podcast started to grow faster and faster and faster faster than ever before it turns out i actually also
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enjoyed that a lot more because i got to meet amazing people learn from them and be inspired by their stories but it also
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saved me tons of time when i did it on my own i would honestly spend seven or eight hours planning and writing each
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episode i had to do bullet points and figure out how i'd move from one bullet point to the next and then if i wasn't
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happy i'd re-record the bullet point to try and nail it it took a lot of time having a guest means i could just walk
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in sit down ask them the things i'm interested in and have a great conversation which now takes me just two
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hours to record and as i said i find it significantly more enjoyable because i get to learn from this incredibly
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diverse range of incredible inspiring people from all walks of life and i think generally you guys enjoy that too i know
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some of you guys still love the solo episodes but i think generally it's really enjoyable to get a really diverse
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range of inspiration from unexpected guests that a lot of the time you've never heard of before
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and i in that format i still get to weave in my own thoughts and ideas into every episode although it is centered on
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the guest if you want to grow your own podcast and you don't already have millions of followers you need to figure
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out where this growth is going to come from where that organic growth is coming from because spotify and apple podcast
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stores and apps don't have any viral discovery you can't just hit retweet or share in spotify um and send it to all
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your friends like you can on other social platforms like instagram facebook and twitter the vast majority i'd say
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over 95 of the discovery of podcasts new podcasts happens outside of the spotify
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apple podcast store it happens on social networks it happens in whatsapp group chats it happens in
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real life by sort of face-to-face word of mouth recommendations so to grow your podcast you need to figure out how your
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podcast is going to reach a new audience and do it often and for me this is achieved in two ways as i said by
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bringing guests in but also by having the youtube channel there's a lot of content discovery happening on youtube
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every time you watch one video it recommends another and sometimes that video is going to be the diary of a ceo
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so we get a lot of new listeners coming in through the youtube channel and in future they might decide to listen on
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apple or spotify or to stay on youtube okay my third piece of advice is actually a bit controversial
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it's really important in all aspects of your professional life to find the right balance of having consistency and
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quality at the same time and if you know me you'll know that i'm someone that is an absolute stickler for quality if
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you're one of the many thousands of people that has worked in one of my companies or alongside me or with me over the last 10 years you will know
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this to be true my job as a ceo or a founder or marketeer or a creative is to
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set a high standard for the quality of work we produce as a team and to protect that standard like a hungry guard dog
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and honestly if you think the standard is too high for you or you don't like me because i'm
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uncompromising about that standard then that doesn't matter to me because i'm not here to be liked first and foremost
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i'm here to produce high quality work with a high degree of integrity and work
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that we can be proud of everything else is a secondary bonus everything that is
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why we are here that is our central mission and i never confused that with that said
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on multiple occasions i've invited a guest to this podcast recorded a full episode with them and then i've deleted
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the episode and never published the episode because i didn't think it was a valuable enough conversation to share
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with you guys as my audience i genuinely feel a deep sense of responsibility to all of the people that listen to this
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podcast because i know that you show up every single monday and often give me two hours of your time listening to
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someone you've probably never heard of before and you're trusting me to find interesting people and have a valuable
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conversation and to give you that value on your monday morning so on several occasions even on one occasion
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when the guest was a mega star with tens of millions of subscribers of their own
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which obviously would have done wonders for this podcast going back to the point i just made about leveraging people's audiences
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i realized that the conversation was not valuable enough to share it with all of you and that was because for a number of reasons
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because it lacked insights because it lacked inspiration it wasn't an intelligent conversation it was boring
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and it didn't meet my standard so i deleted the episode told the guest why and we moved on in fact that even
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happened this week i tend to think my listeners are somewhat like me um
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you must be because i ask questions i'm interested in to guess and you're clearly interested in those things too so if i found the conversation with a
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particular guest to lack value or to be boring then i know you will too and keeping that trust with you to me is so
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unbelievably important it's not nice for a guest to have their episode of a podcast deleted and i'm
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sure some of them have been a little bit pissed off historically um because i might have wasted their time i imagine if i was in their position and i went on
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a podcast i traveled to it and then i found out that it had been deleted i would be annoyed too
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but as i said all of this stuff to me is secondary to producing a piece of work that me and my team can be really really
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proud of and if we're not proud of it then you won't ever see it um and that's the standard that will always maintain
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it's not happened a lot i've got to be honest maybe three or four times um in almost 100 episodes but it's an
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important point and i think having a standard drives all of the other work you do up so even though we've only
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deleted four it's definitely meant that we've set a higher bar for ourselves as a team because we know that it's
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possible that episodes can get deleted if they're bad and and so we do a lot more work
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beforehand to make sure the guest is right and the themes and conversation are going to be right too my fourth point is probably the point
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you guys want to know about the most which is money okay so
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as i said i only started doing this podcast once a week 10 months ago that's when we made the decision to take it
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seriously and to be consistent before then before 10 months ago the podcast was basically just a hobby 10 months ago
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when i realized i was going to do this podcast once a week and launch this youtube channel which meant videoing the
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podcast for the first time and really really really go for it i realized i would need camera equipment a location
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to film it and a team to help me put this whole thing together i've never ever cared about making a profit from
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this podcast this fits into the things i do because i love it bucket in my life and my goal as i said to the team at the
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time was just to break even jack sylvester who i produced this podcast with made a shopping list of all the
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equipment we would need to make a high quality production and the total for all that equipment came to roughly 4 000
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pounds i saw that list and i said to jack jack i want you to really go for it i want to produce one of the best
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podcasts in the world come back to me with another list that is even more ambitious a few days later jack came
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back to me with an equipment list that cost forty thousand pounds which is about fifty five thousand dollars he
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wanted seven cameras some some of them are robots that move by themselves up and down the room some of them are
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sliders we've got gopros state-of-the-art audio software we've got the best
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microphones the best lighting black uplines you name it it's here and we and we really obsessed about the small
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details of this room the set and how it would make you feel and how the feel of the set would impact the content itself
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additionally if we're going to publish four podcasts a month across video and audio and then promote these podcasts
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across social media with video clips but also find really high level guests we're
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going to need a team so here's who i hired jack who produces the podcast i also have a full-time podcast booker
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called harry who contacts potential guests i have a full-time pr manager emma berta who produces the video assets
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and clips from this podcast and other projects callum who produces more video clips for the podcast grace who handles
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the social media across all of my channels don my manager who works with sponsors and on brand deals and of
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course sophie my long-standing assistant who helps me organize my diary and logistics across all areas of my life
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so in total i have a team of eight people that are involved in the production of this podcast in various ways it's not cheap especially if you
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want to do it properly and you don't have to do it on this scale podcasting can be
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remarkably cheap especially if you don't want to video it you can start with what the 100 microphone like i did as long as
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you have a laptop and edit it yourself and record it yourself you can do it over zoom but because i wanted to do it
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big i knew i needed to find a way to make money from this podcast people had historically told me that there is no
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money in podcasting they'd shown me the depressing numbers that you'll see if you google the term how much money can
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you make from a podcast and those numbers work out the revenue potential based on how many downloads or listeners
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you're getting and then they offer you some kind of dollar per download and i read on google when i was starting out
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with my podcast that you could make 25 to 50 per 1000 downloads which meant if you
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got 100 000 downloads per episode i'd make 2 500 to 5 000 somewhere in that
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range obviously this wasn't going to cut it most podcasters make their money from
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reading out adverts in the middle of a podcast episode and most podcasters get these advert deals from some kind of
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podcast advertising company that acts as a middleman between the podcaster and the brand
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and the brand is basically paying them on a dollar per download basis the issue
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with this right is that the middleman is taking a big big cut and the brand is
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paying a fixed fee per download regardless of how good your show is who you are or how valuable your audience is
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the brands are basically handing the middleman a bag of money and saying get me podcast downloads as cheap as
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possible and then they're coming to you and offering you some reduced rate so point number five is the approach that i
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took i knew the typical way of monetizing a podcast was never gonna be enough to cover my costs so i cut out
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the middleman here's what i did i made a list of five companies that i genuinely use every single day and have done for
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years companies that have helped me in various aspects of my life and all companies that i really loved in terms
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of their mission and values i made a nice little presentation deck which was just two and a half slides long showing
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my audience the growth and i got hold of the email address of the ceos of those
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five companies i sent them all an email explaining exactly why they should sponsor this podcast my ambitious plans
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for the future i told them that i was a customer of their brand proved i was a customer and i told those companies that
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i would make this podcast the number one business podcast in europe if they backed me and i would do it within 12
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months all five of those companies replied one of them was the ceo of a company called huel a guy called julian
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hearn and he called me the next day offering to support me this podcast he knew i'd been a customer for three years
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because i talked about hewlett all the time anyway he knew every single word i was going to say about huel would be the
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truth and he's never ever ever told me what to say how to say it what to
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promote or anything like that at all he simply believed in me he backed me he liked the show and i guess because i'm a
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genuine pure customer he knew i would be a benefit to his brand and no i
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am a huge customer i realize creators and influencers say that a lot because they have to that's what they're getting paid to say but no i'm a super customer
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i have two fuel fridges in this building alone that i'm recording this podcast in now six tubs of it over there on my
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fridge um if you opened up the cupboards you'd find heel products it is the reason that i'm in the best shape of my
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life it saves me huge amounts of time which is the most scarce and important thing in my life and it keeps me 10 out
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of 10 healthy a few months after healed back to the podcast i actually asked julian the ceo if i could invest in the
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company too and i ended up being a pretty significant investor in the business and i also now sit on the board too so a really really amazing
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relationship and one that is based in authenticity and that's all because i cut out the
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middleman and i went directly to the brand that i loved with a really compelling pitch and a very ambitious
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plan for the future it's not often or typical that a creator or an influencer goes and pitches
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themself to a brand but i swear if you have the gut skill effort and hard work to do that you can get amazing deals and
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deals that are authentic to you and for me that was the most important thing another company that replied to me was
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fiverr the same thing they believed in me i'd actually worked on a project with them before i used their products i've
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used fiverr across a whole host of um portfolio companies that i'm involved in i use it for everything from graphic
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design to video to audio editing to translations you name it i contacted the global marketing director who i'd never
00:20:02
spoken to before found him on linkedin i told him about this podcast i hopped on a zoom call with him sent him some stats
00:20:08
around the podcast told him about my plans and they said they'd sponsor the podcast too again they've never told me
00:20:14
what to say how to say it they leave me alone and that makes everything much more authentic and and much more honest
00:20:21
and i think i think you guys can tell lastly my third sponsor is my energy my newest sponsor an absolute phenomenal
00:20:28
british success story co-founded by a remarkable entrepreneur called jordan brampton some of you will know i've been
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a big advocate for sustainability ever since i sold my range rover sport and replaced it with an electric bicycle and
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my energy are at the very forefront of british renewable ecosmart technology in
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my mind they are the british version of tesla and so i reached out to jordan because their values and missions are
00:20:50
completely aligned with mine i asked if they would support the podcast and they too after a zoom call and a few chats
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said they would love to and my relationship with my energy has got closer and closer and closer and i'm now
00:21:01
involved in a lot of other things within that business too i asked all of my sponsors for a 12-month contract which
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allows me to plan further ahead and to forecast into higher and i genuinely
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have such a amazing relaxed trust-based relationship with all of them which means i have that freedom to speak about
00:21:20
my relationship with their brand in my own way in my own words and that as i said is incredibly incredibly important
00:21:26
to me it also means that this podcast has never felt like a job no one hands me a script and tells me what to say i
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do it in my way and that's integral the psychology proves that's integral to enjoying something the minute it starts
00:21:38
to feel like a job and you lose that autonomy typically that's when motivation declines and this as i said at the start
00:21:44
of this podcast episode fits into the bucket of my life that is called things i do for fun i don't want to compromise
00:21:51
that if if i ever feel that is compromised then maybe the podcast would stop outside of those key sponsors that i've
00:21:57
mentioned i have the odd brand collaboration or opportunity maybe once every other month which i might mention
00:22:03
on the show from time to time and my three key sponsors and my other sponsors pay varying fees depending on what i do
00:22:10
for them but all in all this year this podcast will generate over 1.2 million
00:22:15
dollars which is just over 100 000 a month so it turns out the naysayers i
00:22:21
encountered when i started were wrong and there is money in podcasting and you can turn it into a really lucrative
00:22:28
business my last point is a bit of a bonus point and that's about why i wanted to do the podcast in the first place and since
00:22:34
launching it the new reasons why i carry on doing it um i started the podcast because i believed in the medium of
00:22:41
podcasting to communicate ideas and to tell stories and to connect with an audience in a world now where everybody
00:22:46
is so obsessed with reach like 1 million views 1 million impressions podcasts sat
00:22:52
alone as a different channel because it offered depth when i started the podcast i was also making videos on facebook
00:22:58
watch and i remember making four videos that ranged between 3 million and 33
00:23:03
million views on average those four videos did 10 million views each the views were staggering huge view
00:23:10
numbers however the videos were like two to three minute kind of viral
00:23:15
semi-forgettable highly relatable videos that after watching most people never
00:23:20
really remembered ever again and one of the sort of like real world measurements that i have about how much the content i
00:23:26
make online is connecting with people is when i meet people in the streets or on a train or an event what they mention
00:23:32
and people never ever mentioned my facebook videos and so for me that meant that those facebook videos weren't
00:23:38
connecting with them at any real depth when i started the podcast although at
00:23:43
the very very beginning i was getting thousands of listeners i would get stopped all the time
00:23:50
even though it was doing a hundred times less the views as my facebook videos were when i was getting stopped in the
00:23:55
streets it was getting a hundred times more mentions and the essays i was i
00:24:00
would get in my dms the the the long sort of anecdotal explanations about how it impacted people meant way more to me
00:24:08
than getting a really big reach number and so i made the decision that i found the depth much more enjoyable um it was
00:24:15
having a greater impact and when i'm producing content that i hope will help people i think of it in terms of the
00:24:20
time it takes me versus the impact it has and in that department podcasting sits absolutely alone the audience is
00:24:26
smaller than the viral videos i used to make but the impact is a hundred times more profound none of you can remember
00:24:33
the last thing you saw on instagram you can't remember the last photo you tapped the last reel you watched but all of you
00:24:39
can remember the last movie you watched on netflix and i think that's the perfect example of how reach can be quite meaningless but depth can be
00:24:46
incredibly impactful it stays with you and for me podcasting an hour long and two hours long sometimes at real depth
00:24:53
on very emotional topics has a tremendous amount of impact which makes it all for me incredibly worthwhile and
00:24:58
the other really unintended consequence of doing a podcast was it forced me to
00:25:03
to keep a diary to then sit down at the end of the week and look at that diary and to reflect and to take lessons from
00:25:11
my experiences we all go through life experiencing things those that stop look
00:25:16
at what's happened pick it apart analyze it and form conclusions on it will learn
00:25:22
more in the same amount of time because they're taking more from their experiences my diary keeping a diary
00:25:29
analyzing it and taking lessons from it genuinely made me smart it genuinely
00:25:34
helped me understand myself it grew my self-awareness and even if i didn't have a podcast or an audience i would
00:25:40
recommend that everybody does that journal have something where at the end of the week or at the end of the day
00:25:47
whenever you want to do it you reflect on the experiences you've had and you extract the maximum amount of learnings
00:25:53
from them i never expected that but being forced to produce content whether it's on instagram or a podcast or on
00:25:58
youtube um really accelerates how much you learn learn about the world learn about the topics you're discussing but
00:26:04
most importantly learn about yourself and the other really unintended consequence of starting a podcast
00:26:10
especially one that's now videoed is it's helped me sharpen my sword in terms of my skills in terms of how i speak
00:26:16
communicate my ideas present on camera and those are skills that are so
00:26:21
incredibly important in the day and age we live in especially in the social media era so i would deeply encourage
00:26:26
everybody to find some type of way especially if you're young and you're growing up in the social media era or if
00:26:32
you're someone that wants to improve your confidence or get better at sales i would find a way to create a pact with
00:26:38
yourself like a promise my promise is i have to show up on monday and make this for you create a pact where you have to
00:26:44
consistently produce content as i said it improves your ideas it improves your
00:26:49
ability to speak and it also helps you on camera which is an important skill in an era where everything seems to be
00:26:55
recorded and the other really unexpected upside of having a podcast and inviting guests
00:27:00
on was you genuinely make amazing potentially lifelong friends
00:27:06
there's this ted talk i watched probably about four or five years ago and it's um i think it's called like the 35
00:27:12
questions to fall in love with somebody and it's basically this list of 35 questions that if you ask somebody and
00:27:17
then spend four minutes staring in their eyes apparently you're supposed to fall in love with them now of course that's
00:27:23
but there's real psychological evidence to support why
00:27:28
that would help you connect with somebody and the truth is as humans when we open up to somebody else and they
00:27:34
open up to us it's been proven that it's easier to connect with them so after
00:27:39
sitting here for two hours with a guest that i've never met before talking about their childhood and things they've been
00:27:45
through and their mental health problems and their struggles and their dreams and their ambitions after the podcast finishes filming
00:27:52
honestly in like 90 percent of the time i feel like they're my mate and they
00:27:58
genuinely 90 percent of the time will say to me let's go for dinner let's go for a you know and they genuinely mean
00:28:04
it and i genuinely do like you know i had reggie yates on the podcast never met him before a couple days later i'm at his house and i'm having dinner at
00:28:10
his house liam payne never met him before came on the podcast was at his house two days ago and we're genuinely really good friends now and it's the
00:28:16
same with all of my guests i go to their birthday parties i go to their their weddings sometimes we become really
00:28:22
really really good friends and it's because we connected from a place of vulnerability i never expected that and
00:28:28
for me that is reason enough to launch a podcast it expanded my professional network but it also expanded my
00:28:34
friendships and that's really what i wanted this podcast today to be about i wanted you to know that you can start your own podcast and even if you don't
00:28:41
go for the full production studio like i have you can make enough money to live off think about it i get paid to sit and
00:28:47
chat with other people that i think are amazing that is a unbelievable privilege so what are my
00:28:53
plans for the future of this podcast if you know me you probably already know the answer to that question i want to take it to another level as you may have
00:29:00
seen we launched the diary of a ceo live which is our live event and we we sold out manchester's albert hall we had
00:29:06
thousands of people there and it was i think i'm safe to say totally
00:29:11
unexpected a big production it was theatrical in its nature there was sort of like special effects and stuff video
00:29:18
music it was all there and it was a really really honestly one of the most powerful evenings of my life over the
00:29:23
last five years maybe the most powerful thing i've ever done maybe and we're now going to tour that across the rest of the uk coming to five
00:29:31
uk cities first and foremost which i'm going to announce shortly
00:29:36
and in other elements of this podcast we're going to continue to take it to another level guests are going to get even better production's going to get
00:29:42
even better and hopefully i'm going to get even better too and most importantly we're going to continue to be consistent
00:29:48
at something that we all very much love doing this was a very different episode this week i hope you enjoyed it i wanted to
00:29:55
finally answer some of these key questions around this podcast and just be completely honest with you and i'll see you again next week we've
00:30:01
got another great guest coming in and i can't wait [Music]
00:30:14
you