00:00:00
I was obsessed with the fact that I was gonna die young I wanted to hurt people the way I was hurt some of the things
00:00:07
that go through my head scared me nice I got 21 seconds to go
00:00:14
top boys are in the building growing up had a lot of trauma and it made me angry
00:00:20
with the world my dad was in prison you know so much childhood the local bad boys they became dead to me and I
00:00:27
started to follow in their footsteps I'm still paying the price for those years now but once I get in front of a camera
00:00:33
it's not that Ashley anymore top boy top boy top boy the greatest show that's
00:00:38
ever come out of the UK let him up it's crazy you know it changed my life but
00:00:43
filming the last season me and Kane we didn't have the greatest time people don't understand we go hard for that
00:00:50
show we go hard to make sure characters are being represented in the way they should be and we Face a lot of
00:00:55
resistance how the truth is
00:01:01
2005. you had rekindled your relationship with your father yeah
00:01:06
and then he died man I never realized it would affect me that much took me to
00:01:13
some Dark Places making decisions that [Music]
00:01:18
were gonna come back to haunt me you know um
00:01:24
yeah man I want to break down now just talking about
00:01:30
[Music]
00:01:36
Ashley I've got an interesting observation that I wanted to start with i the way you speak the way you've been
00:01:42
chatting to me before we started rolling it almost reminds me of someone who has
00:01:50
had a bit of therapy or has done some work on understanding
00:01:57
the unobvious subconscious forces that are at play in their life and what
00:02:03
you've had to delve into because I think as is often the case in this podcast I
00:02:09
think our like earliest context shapes us in a profound way and it's something that's quite hard to unshape ourselves
00:02:14
with undo as we become adults so what is that early context that you've um you've had to reflect on to understand yourself
00:02:21
ah man so where do I start um so much I mean look I I I
00:02:28
first of all I've had a lot of therapy right so I've been in a lot of
00:02:34
situations where I've been canceled you know I've I've um
00:02:40
sought help um because I needed it right
00:02:45
um had a lot of trauma I guess that that has kind of stuck with me over my life
00:02:50
and I think one of the biggest things for me was um my dad really that's why I stem back
00:02:58
to like growing up um just not having a father figure
00:03:03
around um and the places that push me to and don't get me wrong like a lot of people
00:03:10
have gone through that and come out the other side and not been
00:03:15
like me but I dealt with it in like a really crazy sort of way you know it made me
00:03:24
angry made me angry with the world so all throughout my you know my soul solid
00:03:31
years and my early kind of acting years um my attitude towards life and towards
00:03:38
other people was very I mean it was wrong you know it was quite negative and I wanted to hurt people
00:03:47
the way I was hurt and sometimes I did you know sometimes I did it came out in a lot of different
00:03:52
ways some of the people I cared about some of the people were close to me and some people I didn't know random people
00:03:58
but got me into a lot of trouble with the police yeah you know I just didn't care about
00:04:04
myself as a team growing up so and look I had some amazing supportive people
00:04:10
around me like my mum is amazing I've got an amazing family but that one niggling thing of kind of being slightly
00:04:17
lost about what a man is um not feeling like I fit in
00:04:23
rooms with other men you know in groups of people and stuff like that just like
00:04:29
having this niggling doubt about myself all the time
00:04:34
um made me quite a difficult person to be around um growing up and trying to explore that
00:04:41
so yeah when I and I didn't know it was that's why at the time I didn't know I
00:04:46
had anything to do with you know not having my dad around like my dad when he was around
00:04:52
you know he was in prison most of my my childhood growing up that was like France he used to say he was in France
00:04:59
so to me and my younger brothers like any time you know my mom would be like he's in France or someone would say he's in
00:05:05
France or whatever that was like code for prison didn't know at the time something I learned later on but it was
00:05:10
he was in France a lot of times so you know I mean it was like um so there was a few phone
00:05:16
conversations and stuff like that with him but never had him there and then when he would turn up he would just turn
00:05:23
up randomly at my at my house and stuff and one thing I always remember is that I always wanted to go with him right
00:05:30
because he was a superhero to me you know I didn't care as much as the other adults cared about the fact that he was
00:05:37
you know in and out of my life and what damage that was doing to me and stuff like that I was just like I want to see
00:05:43
my dad everyone else has got a dad why haven't I got a dad you know I want to know my dad so
00:05:49
I'll give my mom a little credit because she would never bad mouth him in front
00:05:55
of me even though I know that she wanted to and she would always give me the option so
00:06:01
anytime he would come she was like would you like to go and I would obviously go and then I'd
00:06:06
come back crying because something had happened you know like one of the you know my dad drank a lot I remember
00:06:13
one time he took me to a party he was like a family party he was like after a christening or something like that
00:06:19
um and he was he got so drunk and they threw him out he had a fight with
00:06:26
someone in the party and he was he got thrown up and I remember having to like oh you know maybe like 10 11 tops having to
00:06:34
carry him home literally down the street like carry this guy home
00:06:40
um to to my Grands to his mums you know being chased by the police in the car
00:06:45
you know him pushing my head down in the back I just remember that image of him going like look keep your head down and stuff
00:06:52
like that and he was getting chased by police and I laugh about it now it's more on an easy laugh this happened this
00:06:58
is not me being like proud of any of this it's just those were my images those are my images and memories of like
00:07:05
being with my dad but without fail my mom said you want to go back I'll go back you know I wanted a dad he
00:07:13
weren't the best dad you know but I wanted someone there and kind of eventually when I realized when I got a
00:07:18
bit older and I was kind of angry with him for how he treated me it became
00:07:23
I'm gonna find other figures other Dead figures other role models in my community
00:07:31
um so the you know the local Bad Boys the local dealers
00:07:37
they became that's to me you know and I started to
00:07:42
to follow in their footsteps a bit you know what I mean and adopt the same attitude adopt the same Swagger
00:07:50
um you know I think even joining Soul solid was was never about music for me in the
00:07:56
beginning it was about belonging it was about like it was the first time you know I was part of a gang and there
00:08:03
was a lot of older men in there in that group that looked after me and I took
00:08:08
care of me and seemingly at the time loved me you know what I'm saying as much as you know as far as I was
00:08:13
concerned so I spent a lot of years bouncing around like that the the funny thing is about
00:08:18
it is I was having success throughout this this you know throughout this process like
00:08:24
making films and successful TV shows and music and stuff like that like
00:08:30
so I guess that I had Talent you know I had a gift that was shining through but
00:08:38
um learning how to be a man I didn't I didn't get I didn't know you
00:08:45
know I thought that was aggression I thought that was don't take no from anyone you know
00:08:51
what I mean don't cry don't take no be hard you know try and stand up for yourself but emotionally I was incapable of the
00:08:59
other stuff that really builds the real picture of what a man is where does the anger come from in that
00:09:05
situation of like abandonment meeting a father the father not meeting the expectation that you want him to be
00:09:11
you're I often hear it with um kids like you're desperate for your father to like be a father and you you repeatedly give
00:09:18
them another chance to be that person and they continue to let you down over and over and over again and it's funny
00:09:24
because I've sat here with like child psychologists and gabo mate and all of these Geniuses that study children at a
00:09:29
young age and um it's funny how the one thing that Gabel said to me who's maybe like the
00:09:34
number one child psychologist in the world said to me he was like children in any context think
00:09:40
everything's about them they're narcissists so if the parents were arguing they interpret that as something about them and if they so even in the
00:09:48
context of what you've described your father's Behavior there you almost he's got his own problem clearly but you
00:09:55
interpret it as meaning something about you of course yeah and do you unders have you been able to understand what
00:10:01
the interpretation was how you interpreted that situation um
00:10:06
and I think not in not in that much detail but I guess you know surface wise that that I wasn't
00:10:13
good enough you know I can only say that because of how I've treated myself
00:10:19
um because I never I generally generally I
00:10:24
never think I'm good enough to be doing anything that I'm doing you know I
00:10:30
always feel like there's always like a sly little bit of meanness like they're gonna catch me out next week like I'm I
00:10:37
shouldn't have this opportunity you know I always pla I'm always going to make the most of it I'm always going to prove
00:10:45
to people that I'm good enough to be here but I'm always there's always that niggling doubt of what the other
00:10:51
person's thinking about me you know and um and that's something that I'm still
00:10:56
working on today I'm still working on the whole process of understanding like
00:11:03
um you know someone else's opinion of me is none of my business you know what I'm saying like and just accepting that you
00:11:10
know going into a room and if I see people talking in the corner wondering are they talking about me you know
00:11:16
having those like that sort of thought process is tough but I think it stems from
00:11:23
um rejection I think it stems from you know being abandoned slowly I mean I hate to use
00:11:31
that word but because you know my mom my mum will be upset about me using that terminology
00:11:38
bro because she never understood and bless her you know actually my mom's a very intelligent woman but one thing she
00:11:45
couldn't understand emotionally was the fact that I still wanted him you know
00:11:50
and even you know up until he died and after he died there was loads of moments where
00:11:55
I was broken and she would she was just like what is wrong with you like why you know you
00:12:02
didn't really know him like that like why are you you know she just didn't get that
00:12:08
yeah I just wanted him to be proud you know if anything you know I'd just love him to see me now I'd love him to
00:12:16
understand like who have become what I've achieved I think in the beginning that was more
00:12:21
about that was like a stick your finger up sort of thing like even without you
00:12:27
I did great you know um but the reality is like the last encounter I had with him was the most
00:12:34
beautiful encounter um ever you know maybe I've ever had
00:12:40
with any person that I love like and he said some things to me that really
00:12:46
have stuck with me you know really I changed my life going forward but
00:12:51
you know he didn't he didn't care he was like and I mean he cared about me but he didn't care about the stuff that
00:12:57
I was doing he was like that's meaningless it's like you know all of that can be taken away at any time you know I'm glad you've Got
00:13:04
Talent I'm glad you feel fulfilled in like what you're trying to achieve in life when your life goes on that but
00:13:12
I wouldn't care if you did that or you didn't it'd still be my son and I'd
00:13:18
still love you as much as I do and he was always concerned about my fight
00:13:24
my fight for perfection because I spend a lot of time like
00:13:31
trying to dig deep to make things perfect right and
00:13:37
it's only now I know that nothing nothing can be perfect there's no such thing you know
00:13:44
and I think I eventually understood like you know it's not always gonna go my way right I have to be slightly more
00:13:52
willing to to adapt and to accept that um and when I have been
00:13:59
more willing to accept it um good things have happened you know I
00:14:06
gotta be open to it he passed away in 2005 right yeah yeah and by that time
00:14:12
you would sort of rekindled your relationship to some degree I when I was reading through
00:14:19
I think it's so solid um page 12 you referred to him at that time as a waste of space
00:14:26
which I guess was a reflection of how you were feeling about him at that time yeah I mean it's so funny you bring that book up because
00:14:33
[Music] I don't even I won't even read that book really I don't even think I've ever read
00:14:39
it if I'm honest review and I mean yeah I mean there's not that much to read if I'm honest it's a lot of pictures but
00:14:47
um but yeah probably that's I mean that's how I felt for a lot of the time I think those last two weeks
00:14:53
when I was in I was shooting Get Rich or Die try and I was in Canada he forced his way out
00:15:00
to come and see me because you know he knew how I felt about him and he knew he only had weeks left to
00:15:06
live and he was like look I have to have to come and see you and he came and he lived with me for
00:15:14
those like two weeks and I was already in the process of like
00:15:20
so I had this thing back then that I was gonna die when I was like 33 I'd been
00:15:25
I've been something that I said to my mum from a young age and she was like randomly one day at like six seven he
00:15:32
was like you're gonna die at 33 or whatever and she's like I don't know where you got that from but you've been obsessed
00:15:37
with that and as an adult I was obsessed with the fact that I was gonna die young right I
00:15:43
wasn't going to survive past that age so I got someone to start filming me
00:15:51
every day and I got a friend to just start documenting my like daily life on
00:15:57
camera and when I went to Canada to shoot I took
00:16:05
the camera with me and just said look I'll get some like some footage myself
00:16:11
um when you're not while you're not here my dad came and I just decided to turn
00:16:16
the camera on so I did so every night you know while he was there he was like you know go and
00:16:22
get me some weed this guy had lung cancer and could hardly breathe he's like I'm gonna be some weed and you know
00:16:28
I'll get him some drink and stuff like that and we'll be sitting there for hours like for hours and hours and I just put the
00:16:35
camera down on the table and that and just filming and just ask him the most random questions just about life like
00:16:44
um you know where was you where was he at this time where was you that time whatever
00:16:50
and the guy was like for context when I was in prison I was
00:16:57
in prison in like 2001 right and he wrote to me a few times and it was the
00:17:02
first time I understood that my dad was illiterate like he couldn't read or write so these letters were so like it's just
00:17:10
up man it was just like I was like I had no idea that he had that issue
00:17:15
and I read these letters I was like wow so that gave me another level to my hate for him
00:17:22
it was like now you're dumb as well like yeah do you know what I mean it was like
00:17:27
yeah I really don't like it like I don't know so it was evil but it was just another excuse for me not to like him
00:17:34
right um so cut back to being in Canada
00:17:41
he um I sat down with him and filmed them
00:17:46
and found out that he was one of the most intelligent people I know just from being Street wise just from
00:17:54
life experience to get on saying like it it actually burnt me because I didn't
00:17:59
want him to know anything I didn't want him to have anything to really offer me in the end when I delved deeper into who
00:18:06
he was as a person but all the things I was going through with women with life with you know what I mean it was like he
00:18:13
had a wealth of knowledge that he could speak to me about he couldn't write it down couldn't really articulate it
00:18:19
in the greatest way but just listening to his kind of anecdotal sort of stories
00:18:25
and whatever I got what I needed to get from it and I filmed him kind of going through it
00:18:31
um but there was also like a huge fear as well you know I realized in that moment
00:18:37
that he had he had genuine excuses for being the person he was I mean he grew up he
00:18:43
didn't have the greatest upbringing you know he was in care he was slightly neglected by his own
00:18:49
parents you know and you know he was the bad kid of the bunch and he just kind of got pushed out and
00:18:56
that kind of led to his life and things happened etc etc but I understood it from his point of view when I heard him
00:19:02
talk about it and I was like actually okay I can see why you would be the person that you are and actually maybe you did me a favor by not being there
00:19:09
too much because who would I be you know would I be the person I am today and
00:19:15
um but then you know after realizing I love this guy and I'm enjoying spending
00:19:22
time with him and we were like good friends and we went to clubs to give her out there this guy's like
00:19:27
you know thin like way for Finn like on death's doorstep
00:19:33
and he was making the effort to come out with me and you know Rave and do all of this stuff
00:19:39
and um but at night at bedtime I slayed in my bed awake
00:19:46
every night just staring at the ceiling thinking he's gonna die here because he was just coughing all through the
00:19:52
night man it was like you know like he was coughing up his lungs like
00:19:58
I was like what I was praying that it didn't happen you know there
00:20:04
um and then he died man he'd like you know
00:20:11
he left left literally got off the plane they rushed him to hospital because he's
00:20:18
he was going on the plane rushing to hospital he died um whilst I was filming and
00:20:25
you know it wasn't the best way that I found out um
00:20:31
I was filming at the time I was doing a scene with 50. and it was like a really emotional scene
00:20:39
um outside on location and
00:20:46
the vibe just changed on set like you know in between takes everyone
00:20:52
stopped talking and it was quiet it was like this and like
00:20:57
The Producers were just like looking at me and I was like nah I knew
00:21:05
do you know me something had happened I knew something was wrong and they was like look we're gonna take
00:21:11
a break just go and call home you need to call home actually
00:21:17
so I went to my train line called my partner at the time and she was like sorry man
00:21:23
I mean he's gone so I was tough it was tough it was tough moment
00:21:29
this tough moment um
00:21:35
yeah and I was I was broken I was broken I never realized
00:21:41
it would affect me that much broke me and um
00:21:49
crazy but the one thing I remember from that moment is I went to my trailer I
00:21:55
broke down some of the actors came like Troy Bryant she came in and she was just
00:22:00
like just hugged me and I was just crying and stuff and 50 came in and was
00:22:07
he won't remember this and I know it wasn't malice or is there any bad intentions but he was like
00:22:14
I'm sorry to hear about your dad and it just started talking about a
00:22:19
scene to someone you know when someone's like sorry to hear about your dad man anyway
00:22:24
um whatever and I was like you know talking to him after is like
00:22:30
he's been through some some you know that's made them really like
00:22:38
um I hadn't been through anything like that you know at that point that was my first
00:22:43
real kind of close encounter with
00:22:48
death like and having someone that meant so much to me
00:22:54
and pass away um but my first instinct was you know to
00:23:00
work to continue working I continued working I flew back for the funeral
00:23:07
for literally one day did the funeral and then I left I went back to work
00:23:13
um I just plowed through and I didn't grieve and I haven't
00:23:19
you haven't I don't think I have you know I don't I don't know what you call it because
00:23:25
even like now I want to break down now just talking about I don't know it's just like
00:23:31
2005 right it's like 18 years or whatever so I mean is that an indication
00:23:36
that I haven't dealt with it enough yeah I don't know
00:23:46
the feelings you have towards his his loss are they are they complicated are they because are there unanswered
00:23:54
conversations are there is there is there any regrets in there is there what
00:24:00
are what were those feelings because your mother as you said is was surprised by your reaction to his loss
00:24:07
from him dying I lost I went off the rails a bit you know I went off the rails a bit when
00:24:13
the sense of my ego took over and I lost
00:24:20
any sort of spiritual connection that I had with
00:24:28
life or the universe up until that point you know I'm I'm never been the most
00:24:34
religious person but I've always been a believer in
00:24:41
in like the universal law right like in in if I give I will get
00:24:49
you know in there in the in a way that things are meant to be you know anything
00:24:54
that's happened in my life has been manifested in some sort of way you know
00:25:02
when I wanted to be in so solid I knew who so solid were before they knew who I was you know and I was I made a I looked
00:25:08
in the mirror one day and said I'm going to be in that group you know and that was I was a little boy on the streets
00:25:15
working out ways to to be and the universe can constantly
00:25:21
bring in people around my situation that was connected to that situation
00:25:27
that was Bridging the Gap for me you know so I I only had to be I only had to you know focus and believe or whatever
00:25:33
so I believe in all that all that stuff but when it comes to when my dad passed I like I lost a lot of that
00:25:41
those beliefs I lost a lot of that understanding and I became slightly like
00:25:48
yeah just lost you know lost I was you know I drank more I you know I I did
00:25:56
I cared less about myself about where I was going and about you know what I wanted in life and stuff and
00:26:06
um yeah that led me on a on a different a different sort of Journey you know
00:26:13
um took me to some dark places if I'm honest Dark Places
00:26:20
yeah man just like
00:26:26
like definitely not making decisions purposely making decisions in
00:26:33
life that we're gonna come back to haunt me you
00:26:39
know um they'll come in a big thing for me was like
00:26:48
my relationship at the time um
00:26:55
I gave up on you know I gave up on it um
00:27:01
I became quite like promiscuous you know I abused the the
00:27:11
celebrity that I had you know like I I gave into the the Temptation that was
00:27:17
around me a lot more um you know and I really hurt my my first
00:27:22
partner um by being that person and actually that resulted in
00:27:28
in me having two kids out of my relationship you know so two of my children
00:27:34
who I love daily um you know came from from that situation
00:27:40
but I think that was like a big part of my like you know my reckless sort of rebellious
00:27:46
sort of attitude and I I mean the only way I can put it is that I I became I
00:27:52
came before everyone at that point you know me and my ego and like the world revolved around me and I think before
00:27:58
that point even though I did have moments of being quite Wayward and whatever I was still
00:28:05
um caring loving Ashley you know
00:28:11
that's how I that's how I grew up um
00:28:16
but yeah I definitely came out of my box from that point on
00:28:21
um and I I guess to me at the time it was like you only live once
00:28:29
you know I don't fear anyone whatever happens happens it was that whole thing that was going on but
00:28:35
um I'm still still paying the price for those those years now
00:28:41
I think this is fascinating I looked at the back end of our YouTube channel and it says that since this channel started
00:28:49
69.9 percent of you that watch it frequently haven't yet hit the Subscribe button so I have a favor to ask you if
00:28:56
you've ever watched this Channel and enjoyed the content if you're enjoying this episode right now please can I ask a small favor please hit the Subscribe
00:29:01
button helps this channel more than I can explain and I promise if you do that to return the favor we will make this
00:29:08
show better and better and better and better and better that's the promise I'm willing to make you if you hit the Subscribe button do we have a deal
00:29:15
those tapes um have you still got them
00:29:21
it's another upsetting story man like so I set up a production company me and
00:29:27
a good friend of mine at the time but I was a nightmare to deal with you know
00:29:36
this the demons were there and I've I don't I didn't
00:29:41
give a hundred percent into this company at all so like a lot of the weight was left on them
00:29:48
to kind of hold it up and then I think this person this guy was going through his own
00:29:54
troubles as well at the time with his dad and his family and stuff so you know it was a disaster in the end
00:30:00
but either way you know we had an archive of footage that we created from filming
00:30:07
that we never knew what was going to use it for but all the stuff I filmed my dad went into this archive
00:30:16
um and when the company actually was dissolved and you know we kind of fell out at that
00:30:22
point he took all the tapes and the footage and for how many years now I've been
00:30:30
asking to get it back because we don't speak you know but for maybe 10 years now I've been trying to send messages
00:30:36
through people I know know him and stuff like that and I've just had no response you know and the last thing I want to do
00:30:42
is go into some legal sort of battle for it or whatever but
00:30:50
it's the last you know the other stuff I can let go but the stuff with my dad
00:30:56
like it's the last things I've got I don't have pictures of him you know I know I don't have like
00:31:03
family portraits and anything like that all I really have is those those tapes and they're like
00:31:09
they're like my um do you know that movie um things to do in Denver when you're dead yeah
00:31:16
they're like you know it's like that to me it's like gold dust it's like
00:31:21
I can I could probably watch those tips and it could probably help me through a lot of tough times that I face now or
00:31:28
maybe even my kids you know maybe even um help the boys somehow so
00:31:33
it'd be nice to get them back it's it's really sad it's like it's hurtful man and uh and I hope one day I can resolve
00:31:40
that situation do you even know if that person still has them
00:31:45
do you know what I mean I could be sitting there with the you know thinking that he has them but he might not I'm
00:31:52
pretty sure he does pretty sure that last two weeks with your father before he passed away
00:31:57
um my first question is did you did you know he was going to pass away soon and um
00:32:03
what did you take from that those two weeks of sitting with him and asking what is the what did you walk away with
00:32:08
that you didn't have in that moment you knew he was much more intelligent than you ever knew but the the lessons you
00:32:13
speak of that you've have stayed with you ever since and that have seemingly guided you
00:32:19
what were those lessons I knew he was going to pass away um
00:32:24
I hadn't accepted it yeah you know but it was obvious that he was going to die right it was obvious
00:32:30
um lessons um I think is I got from it what I what
00:32:37
I one of the key things I needed and I think one of the key things you need
00:32:43
from knowing your dad is
00:32:48
knowing where you come from I think that's such a it's just such a
00:32:54
key point in being a dad like if my son can look at
00:33:00
me I can look at my son and kind of he knows who I am he knows where I came
00:33:05
from he knows what my values are you know what I expect of him and stuff like that then I think it makes him easier
00:33:12
for him going out there to be just a person to be a human being when you are
00:33:19
when you're constantly looking for that reference point right you're lost you know and and
00:33:26
when I spent those two weeks with him I kind of got a better understanding of oh
00:33:32
okay this is why I do that funny thing with my eye when you
00:33:38
don't mean I'm lying or this is why I feel this way at this point and
00:33:48
you know he was powerful as a man he didn't have anything didn't have anything but
00:33:55
he used some sort of confidence and charm right that
00:34:02
you can't buy like you know what I mean um
00:34:07
and I felt that and I saw that in him and it made me understand about
00:34:14
I should feel more like that by myself do you know what I mean I should feel more
00:34:20
powerful look you don't have to be a you know when you're
00:34:25
you know when you're confident doesn't have to come across that way
00:34:31
but he had he had that like that level of confidence with like a
00:34:36
some beautiful sort of humility that went with it but you know
00:34:43
and that was my dad that was my dad's so it made me know that I can be that
00:34:49
person you know that I don't need to doubt myself as much as I do
00:34:55
um and he Stripped Away From Me He constantly in that little time I spent with me Stripped Away all the because I
00:35:02
was like hiding myself in success
00:35:07
I've got this I've got this watch I've got this car this Co and staying in this
00:35:13
apartment and this and that or whatever and he didn't give a about any of that and I don't know whether he was doing it
00:35:19
on purpose but he genuinely was like well I mean it's it's good I mean but
00:35:24
and he he knew a lot more about me than
00:35:30
and thought he did so
00:35:35
he'd paid attention somehow um
00:35:40
but I walked away from that meeting that encounter knowing
00:35:47
that he loved me and knowing that he was proud of me you know he was proud
00:35:54
um and that was good enough what would you say to him if he was listening now
00:36:00
um I think I I didn't tell him thank you
00:36:07
no I I hope he didn't get on that plane feeling like
00:36:16
in a feeling that I was still unhappy with him because I treated him quite bad you know
00:36:21
especially when I mean when he was going through his cancer when he told me he had cancer I was like
00:36:28
whatever like I don't even believe you you're probably just saying it for me because you want me to talk to you yeah
00:36:33
that's how I that was my attitude towards towards him in that period of time that's how much anger I was holding
00:36:40
so you know I let go of a lot of that whilst we was together
00:36:46
but I do wonder if there was any doubt in his mind when he left you know because I
00:36:51
couldn't you know it's not like I was like you know all over him and touchy feely and kissing him and you know
00:36:57
rubbing him and stroking him and stuff I still kept a bit of a you know a toughness about it like I'm
00:37:02
not gonna let you in like that you know but I do I do hope
00:37:08
that he could read between the lines and know that I'd
00:37:14
softened slightly and like let him in a bit if you can see all the success you've
00:37:21
had now what do you reckon you'd think all that you've done it'd probably try and tell me like you
00:37:27
know it'd be like you're not doing this right you're not doing that right you could improve in this area in that area and
00:37:34
whatever but uh probably butt heads about it but you know that'd be all good
00:37:40
I I take that now in hindsight you know I mean I'd take it you're trying to be your dad I mean that's it yeah yeah
00:37:47
that's it mines do the same yeah yeah some I I do Envy some of my
00:37:53
friends that I know like I've got really good relationships with their dads and dads have looked over their contracts
00:38:00
and stuff like that you know I mean I've been a major part of their life
00:38:05
you know I'm determined to do that for my my kids if they ever need it in hindsight though we we look at the some
00:38:11
of the most difficult things we've been through and overcome and we understand the correlation that has with
00:38:16
the better things about us all the things that we're proud of like there's often a surprising link between the
00:38:23
worst thing that's happened to us or the worst trauma we've had and the best thing that's happened to us and as I was
00:38:29
listening to all of that you know you use this word talent at the very beginning you said I must have had just had a talent
00:38:35
but I'm not necessarily sure what you mean by talent because
00:38:41
um you grew up with an ability to have um that talent in multiple areas you
00:38:48
were you had it in music you had it acting in a very young age and there's part of me that Wonders that you know
00:38:53
about the link of the things that you went through in the circumstances you were in and how that left you with this
00:38:59
trait you described as not quite ever think in your work or you were good enough how that actually all played into
00:39:05
your drive and ambition to go that extra mile to work that extra hour to spend an extra hour in the
00:39:11
editing studio and I often see in people that when they have that feeling of like some call it imposter syndrome I don't
00:39:17
like the term that they actually produce better work because they end up becoming the perfectionist that you your father
00:39:23
told you not to be so it's interesting that there's a correlation there and um well if I asked you
00:39:30
know because I was looking at this and you start acting super young I'm wondering how it's possible that at 15
00:39:35
years old you are not only joining one of the most successful groups at the
00:39:41
time in so solid crew but you're also acting on the BBC 15 16 7 17 years old
00:39:48
you're doing two things that most people never I mean if if one person had just
00:39:53
been in so solid crew that would be a success they would be a success but for you to be doing both things at the same
00:39:59
time what have I missed here like what is it about you that
00:40:05
um your character traits your philosophy your mindset that you think has really guided you through that process I'm
00:40:11
gonna I'm gonna struggle to really to answer this Stephen if in all honesty because
00:40:18
kind of involves like um
00:40:26
it kind of involves digging myself up a bit more than I'm comfortable with if
00:40:32
I'm honest um but since we're here yeah another joke
00:40:40
um now I think it's more look I don't I don't
00:40:47
I believe there's that some of that charm that we spoke about that I saw in my dad I I know I have in me right so I have
00:40:55
the I had that ability I know how to talk to people right I know if I kind of
00:41:01
if I get into a situation like this with me and you like I can make people like me you know what I mean
00:41:08
it's a little thing that I've got um and I try and
00:41:14
bring that out in the characters that I play on the screen um I think I always bring a bit of
00:41:19
myself to the roles I play so as much as I'm hiding behind these characters or
00:41:25
whatever the engine room is Ashley and if I can find ways
00:41:31
to use my trauma to portray this I do
00:41:37
I think outside of the ring when I say ring I'm in the acting space
00:41:46
I'm humble you know I don't brag keep it simple
00:41:54
and I treat people as good as I can you know what I mean and I give back a lot you know I'm always about like
00:42:02
trying to help other people it's always been a part of me so I think
00:42:09
that's helped move me forward and I think especially in in like within the
00:42:14
black community you know where I was one of the first to kind of break through when there was
00:42:20
only a few black faces on screens and a lot of black people that are you know maybe in their 40s now have grown up
00:42:26
watching me um that's the Ashley that they know
00:42:32
you know I think I'm never I've always been quite accessible
00:42:39
um I've never like turned my back on you know where I came from you know for
00:42:47
some reason in some way I've managed to stay in that place where it's like
00:42:53
oh it's Ash yeah yeah you know what I mean I'm like um you ever lost sight of yourself yes
00:42:59
like people are comfortable around me this is why I like still to this day you know a lot of people are like
00:43:05
bro why are you just walking down the street or why are you just on the train or why are you just sitting in this like
00:43:11
because I can because people don't really you know they don't really want to like
00:43:18
I don't have the you know I mean the Justin Bieber effect on people like you don't have to shut
00:43:25
down stores or whatever when I come in like people look and stuff like that but it's like I just feel like they've got
00:43:31
they used to me yeah yeah you know what I mean and I think like I mean I'll straighten off point a bit but I think
00:43:37
like all of this as part of my character as part of my personality ties into what I've been
00:43:43
working for so long you know why I've managed to maintain relationships in the industry and
00:43:49
um why I have a solid like fan base you know solid base of
00:43:55
supporters that will show up to my shows to watch my films or watch
00:44:01
do you know what I mean why it makes us to invest in me yeah it makes it and we often don't think about the role that
00:44:06
people skills will play over a long period of time but it's like a force that's either it's like an invisible
00:44:11
force like your reputation in terms of how you've shown up for people that will
00:44:17
um when you zoom out we'll catch up with you either way For Better or For Worse you know what I mean
00:44:23
yeah that's it let's call it like invisible PR it's like what how you've treated people along the way well and
00:44:29
people don't often focus on that because there's other things they might try and focus on but that Force that's kind of just
00:44:35
making sure people call you when there's the opportunity or they recommend you in a room you're not in and that all comes
00:44:40
down to everything you've just said there if I'm honest reviews help me so much in the sense of I've made mistakes
00:44:46
along the way you know I've made mistakes that I've not necessarily been public
00:44:52
mistakes I'm I've never say that I'm a perfect person but when I have made those mistakes
00:45:01
people that have known me have supported me you know what I mean so because
00:45:08
you know I've been good I've been good to people like so
00:45:13
um you know when we live in a world today where you know any minute people can turn
00:45:19
their back on you any minute people can you know cancel you or whatever they want to call it and and that happens day
00:45:25
in and day out um so you know I feel like I feel really
00:45:31
proud of the fact that I've been as genuine as I can be
00:45:38
coming up if I was one of your kids then and I come to you and I say Dad listen I want to be an actor
00:45:43
no well no I couldn't I couldn't I mean I couldn't tell them no but I I would be
00:45:49
worried why it's just hard it's it's a hard
00:45:54
industry to crack yeah but you did it Dad yeah I did it but I don't know how
00:46:02
I'm yet to know what the blueprint is it's tough you know my students at Kingdom asked me this all is all the
00:46:09
time and I'm like all I can teach you is like how to prepare how it's going to happen when it's gonna
00:46:15
happen or whatever that is like it's an anomaly man that's like it comes when it comes right and you just got to be kind
00:46:22
of ready for it at the time but yeah I mean my kids and the worst thing about it is like
00:46:28
most of them probably are going to do something in entertainment I can see that
00:46:35
um so it's going to be tough it's going to be tough for them it's going to be tough for me um but is it is a um
00:46:43
is a rocky road and it's a it's a tough life and but I will support them on the way what
00:46:49
is that so if I go if I was like that what do you mean Rocky Road Rocky Road meaning
00:46:56
you know for years I'd say only in the last 10 years I've been financially stable
00:47:02
I've been acting all of my life so not knowing sometimes how I was going
00:47:09
to feed my children you know what was going to happen next you know
00:47:15
just whether I was coming or going it was just unstable it's just unstable
00:47:21
um and the rejection is immense man like you
00:47:26
have to be really tough in places when it comes to
00:47:32
80 of it is people just telling you no this ain't gonna happen
00:47:37
you're not going to be able to do it that's probably not going to work sorry we don't want you not this time you were
00:47:43
great but you know what I'm saying it's like that a lot of the time what people get to see is it is that little ten
00:47:51
percent that works why don't you listen to them because I you know I spoke to someone close to you and they told me they said
00:47:57
it's funny because earlier on un I'm not gonna you weren't good at saying no to people right because you said you have
00:48:03
these people please attendancies when I spoke to people close to you they said you're not good at hearing though either
00:48:08
as in someone says no to you it turns into driving motivation
00:48:14
yeah well so why don't you listen to them when all these people rejected you and said no it's not going to work you're not going to be in this movie or
00:48:20
this thing
00:48:26
it's kind of phone me a bit that is now I'm thinking about who you spoke to
00:48:32
our team they say that you know you're when you when someone says no to you like you can't direct Ashley yeah you
00:48:39
know yeah yeah I I mean I mean I have that but I'm not like I don't
00:48:45
have it in a way of like not in a rude way but it's a motivation it does it does yeah it does you know I stay when
00:48:53
I'm silent that's when people should worry about me because you know that's when I'm that's
00:48:58
what I'm thinking how to get around you or how to do that thing that you
00:49:03
you said I can't do but when someone says you can't do something
00:49:09
Ashley Walters you can't do that um how does that feel I don't like to I mean it doesn't feel
00:49:16
good it doesn't feel good um especially when I know there's a way especially when I know that I can
00:49:22
you know or I believe that okay um I just prefer people to let me try
00:49:29
and if it fails then we can both agree ah maybe it wasn't gonna work the way I
00:49:35
said it was and it would try a different way or we don't revisit it um but I need the opportunity to
00:49:43
to bring how I feel to to the table and yeah there have been times where I have
00:49:49
accepted like it's not going to work or whatever and I've regretted it after because
00:49:54
someone else has come and done it um so I've I think I've become I've got
00:50:01
tougher with that over the years and like the directing thing was one of
00:50:08
those things because I was told like you know you can't direct it was my own show
00:50:13
that I created it was like now you haven't got enough experience
00:50:18
like yeah I've watched some of the directors you bought on here that would be
00:50:25
I've got more experience than them I've been I've been filming since I was like seven
00:50:31
um and to hear that is like you know it's a kick in the teeth but
00:50:37
I went to you know I went to my business partner after that I was like how do we change this
00:50:44
and he was like well if you're serious about it let's make a short film so we're making a short film we might have
00:50:50
made a short film got some money from Skye made this short film
00:50:55
now that came out but I think actually what happened in that process was I liked it
00:51:01
I wasn't expecting to like directing so much at that point it was about
00:51:07
you want experience I'm gonna get your experience the best experience that you could possibly have
00:51:13
um but actually throughout the process I was like nah I like this man I enjoy this process
00:51:20
um and that's spiraled into me do more yeah you said you talked about
00:51:27
Kingdom there um those students that come to you that you Mentor that ask you you know you said okay you can't
00:51:32
help them figure out how and when it's going to happen but you can get them prepared what is preparation for the
00:51:37
life you've lived uh boy um well I make a I make a make a point of
00:51:45
always saying to them that if you've come here trying to
00:51:51
um have my journey you're gonna have to go to prison you know lose your dad this that
00:51:58
whatever I told them all the negative things that's happened because that's what's made me so I was speaking to Laura about this I was like look I can't
00:52:05
sit there and regret things that have gone wrong because the truth is if they had if those series of events
00:52:12
hadn't happened in the way they happened on the days they happened I wouldn't be sitting here now and I wouldn't have all the great things that I have the kids
00:52:18
and this and that any little thing that was different might have changed the whole course of my life so I have to
00:52:25
accept that would you erase it would you erase your dad passing going to prison if there was a button in front of you
00:52:30
now no I couldn't no really I couldn't well if I erased that then I might have you know you know like that picture in
00:52:36
um in Back to the Future where he's like he when he's not getting home or
00:52:42
something like and his brother starts to fade away his sister starts to food it's like if I raised that and brought my dad
00:52:49
back I might erase like four of my children you know what I mean
00:52:57
actually Six Degrees of Separation you might not be here
00:53:03
you never know right so um no I couldn't I couldn't you have to
00:53:08
you have to live with it and I say this to students it's like so it's not about the journey it's about
00:53:15
how you use your journey and more importantly enjoying the journey
00:53:22
because I tell you now Stephen it's not that enjoyable
00:53:28
where I am the the best parts of what I've achieved has been along the
00:53:36
way do you know what I mean the people I've met the fun I've had doing things the filming the memories this and that
00:53:42
or whatever actually the looking back the challenges the people saying no so what I had to do to get around that to
00:53:48
to get there and whatever it's actually like I think when you clock the game it's like oh
00:53:54
I'm not saying I've clocked it but I'm saying I can see with the people that I know that are like in that space where
00:54:01
they've kind of like there's not much more to do I think it's pretty boring
00:54:06
like I don't envy them you know I don't envy them I may want that Lambo but I don't envy where
00:54:15
they're at yeah yeah like you know that space that they're in because there's nothing much more to achieve it feels
00:54:21
like and I'm always like I have to have a fix like I have to there has to be
00:54:26
something else like I'm very can be very fickle like that like I can
00:54:32
be very focused and determined and whatever and now like I'm doing this Disney show and it's like I've shot the
00:54:37
Disney show and you know I'm editing but I want it to end now because I want to do another show so let
00:54:45
me play out this the scenario then actually oh it's funny because as you were saying that I was imagining someone coming into your life and saying Ashley
00:54:50
you can't work for another two years you just gotta sit at home but then I remembered we we had that oh yeah the
00:54:57
pandemic yeah how did you respond to that not well
00:55:02
sitting down is not not good for me and I met my wife and I we can't
00:55:08
we can really go on holiday together because what she wants to do is
00:55:14
read books she didn't get to read and lie on sun lounges as a staff and I'm like
00:55:20
I can't I can't live like that you know I need to be doing something Something's
00:55:25
Gotta happen or be happening what if it doesn't
00:55:31
for me it's uncomfortable it's uncomfortable what was the pandemic like in the first
00:55:37
couple of weeks sat at home alone nothing can't go to the gym can't move that was tough man that was tough like
00:55:44
taking away my work from me and you know all of those
00:55:49
all of that talk of me being that hard love to be there more with the kids and
00:55:54
love to speak with my wife a lot more whatever I realized now I didn't I I
00:55:59
weren't ready for it I weren't ready for 24 hours
00:56:05
with my family I wasn't used to it I was always used to having a a release
00:56:11
or knowing that all right I'm gonna have this week full-on at home but then next
00:56:16
week I'm going there I'm doing this I'm doing that so there was always something coming um but
00:56:21
yeah it was a it was a struggle it it opened up a lot of
00:56:27
um a lot of things in our relationship definitely I mean me and the missus you
00:56:33
know um we dealt with a lot yeah we argued a lot throughout that
00:56:39
period of time it was like it was tough it was a lot of things I didn't realize irritated me
00:56:46
you know maybe about her and vice versa you know she realized there's a lot of things that
00:56:52
irritated her about me um I guess because we're spending so much time together
00:56:58
um if I was to fly on the wall in your household at that time what would I what Ashley would I have seen
00:57:05
um in that first couple of weeks yeah I mean them depressed no they were sad
00:57:11
depressed yeah slightly yeah not worried about I mean worried about the state of
00:57:16
the game worried about where we was I mean I was one of those people that was worriedless if I was am I gonna die do
00:57:23
you know what I mean that was like one of my first thoughts like did you have a breakdown
00:57:28
no I don't think I had a breakdown I don't think I had a breakdown
00:57:33
I kind of know where you're yeah I mean there was I had a moment I did have a
00:57:39
moment because I think I think the pressure
00:57:45
the pressure of not it was it was hard for me not to
00:57:51
not to have the choice to work like it was hard for me not to have the
00:57:57
choice to do certain things with my life um
00:58:03
you know and um yeah it took it it took its toll on me I think I don't know I don't know if I'll
00:58:09
go as far as saying I had a breakdown but I was very depressed I was very I was very low
00:58:14
that's very low the reason I asked the question is because someone who I think you remind me of myself in many ways
00:58:20
where I think at some level I'm getting some of myself esteem and some of my self-worth from my work like by by being
00:58:29
successful in my work I think I feel like I'm good in myself to some degree it's probably an illusion but it makes
00:58:36
me feel that way it's probably the same reason people buy Lamborghinis like it is an illusion it's not going to fill the void but it keeps me stable the
00:58:44
chaos keeps me stable um and that's why I ask the questions because it's one of those moments in our
00:58:49
lives where for someone like you where your work is requires you to be on sets mine I could still do for my laptop
00:58:55
right but for you you have to you have to be on sets and all that stuff shut down we lock down
00:59:01
um so how does one because I'm guessing here that you have a the same relationship with your work on some
00:59:07
level where it makes you feel like you're you're good yeah yeah like you're enough yeah yeah I mean yeah
00:59:14
you're right you're hitting in the head I mean I can't I can't articulate it any better I guess that's
00:59:20
what happened it stripped a bit of me away and I became
00:59:27
a civilian do you know what I mean it was like the the little part of me that made me
00:59:33
slightly different to to the people around me had been taken away and I just had to be Ashley
00:59:41
and just and actually sit with my thoughts and deal with my flaws you know
00:59:50
you'd spend a long time distracting yourself yeah 100 but it became evident you know I was drinking a little bit too
00:59:56
much I smoked a lot um you know I was biting my nails
01:00:02
I know this thing sounds stupid but to me they were like things I'd never been able to conquer
01:00:11
um and became more apparent and evident where I
01:00:17
had nothing else to do sitting with yourself and sitting with your thoughts um
01:00:23
how's that for you it wasn't great wasn't great at the time
01:00:28
um it's not I mean it's not always great now I'm a strong believer in that
01:00:35
um that voice in my head is a mug
01:00:43
is not the right person for me to be listening to really I don't believe anyone should listen to voices in there
01:00:49
if I'm honest review your head is an extension of you right it's going to
01:00:55
be trying to like it's bias it's gonna be telling you majority of the time telling you the you want to hear
01:01:01
you know telling you stuff that's not really happening but you know trying to justify I I just
01:01:09
think you know why is he a mug that voice in your head because um he's made me make some terrible
01:01:16
decisions in my opinion um
01:01:21
nowadays I try to uh try to quiet and the voice as much as possible Right
01:01:30
um and connect I think that's the most important thing
01:01:35
to do like if I can if I'm sitting there thinking something
01:01:42
and I'm no I don't know the answer something maybe emotional something
01:01:49
it's like it makes more sense to call my mom
01:01:55
want to call someone else you know I mean or to speak to open up to my wife about it and go what do you think about
01:02:00
this and get someone else's perspective and then make decisions but I feel like
01:02:07
you know as emotional creatures as we are as humans and we know a lot of a lot
01:02:13
of our the moves that we made that make are based on you know emotion anger fear you know
01:02:21
jealousy this that whatever I just think you don't you should never be making decisions
01:02:28
in that in that frame of mind you know you should always have someone to bounce something off but
01:02:34
I just don't think the voice in your head I mean look in my in my opinion
01:02:40
um not my life the voice in my head has never been the best voices I've done some
01:02:46
some of the most stupid things because I said to myself it's the right thing to
01:02:52
do the personality of that voice angry you said
01:02:58
yeah at times look there's a there's there's a bit there's a very vengeful
01:03:05
person somewhere inside of me I believe we've all got that part of us you know um
01:03:11
some of the things that go through my head sometimes scare me um
01:03:17
because I've been hurt and I've been hurt and sometimes it feels like the easiest thing to do is
01:03:22
hurt other people but I'm just glad that I have the ability
01:03:28
to control those feelings and to and to think about
01:03:34
things and to kind of always in in any how I can do it move forward
01:03:40
with with love and I have a clear understanding that
01:03:47
you know I hurt people hurt people so if you can if you can
01:03:52
if you can forgive you know you're not you're doing yourself a great favor first and
01:03:59
foremost if you can forgive if I can forgive the people that hurt me right do you forgive
01:04:05
everybody in your life I don't think I've got around to forgiving everyone I think I do carry a lot of a lot of
01:04:12
baggage but I'm working on it and I'm working on it um
01:04:17
and I'm working on making amends with other people as well that maybe don't forgive me
01:04:23
you know um but what I do know is the people that maybe I don't forgive they probably
01:04:29
forgotten who I am you know but I'm sitting there thinking about them
01:04:34
all the time and it's like so who's really hurt you're hurting yourself yeah that's the
01:04:41
nature isn't it of holding The Grudges which we will do but it just it does not no damage to the other person does it I
01:04:46
remember reading that quote one day and it was like forgiving someone is like letting a prisoner go and realizing and
01:04:52
doing so that you were the prisoner the whole time like you can imagine opening the gates to the jail and seeing
01:04:57
yourself run out yeah yeah you said something quite curious there
01:05:04
which gave me a train of thought which is sometimes I just want to speak to my my wife Danielle about it now speaking to your
01:05:11
wife about it when I think about the other points you've given me about not being
01:05:16
like grown up the way you did you've emotion not coming naturally to you
01:05:21
I'm guessing you like me in some respects where because I having the kind of conversations that you need
01:05:27
to have to keep a woman in your life don't come naturally to me either I don't I still don't even call my parents
01:05:33
but I'd never call my parents mum or Dad I just don't I didn't have that affection growing up so if you don't
01:05:40
build the ability to communicate in a certain way and to listen in a certain way and show emotion in a certain way
01:05:45
you have no chance of being in a loving committed relationship and getting all the benefits of that what Journey have
01:05:51
you been on with like because it's funny because I was thinking about that moment where you look down together and the war and much of the war is like
01:05:59
either one person or two people that don't know how to communicate properly yeah that was that was the war the war
01:06:04
was because Dan is like she's the most loving
01:06:12
caring tactile to a person I've ever met in my life
01:06:19
like to the point that when I first met her
01:06:24
um when I first met her no when we first started dating I met her a long time before we started dating right when we first started dating
01:06:30
and I met her family and I saw how a family
01:06:35
are together like it made me sick
01:06:40
and I know now that was it was jealousy because I just never
01:06:47
I love my mum and I know my mom loves me but we can go without talking for two weeks
01:06:54
we're not all over each other hugging do you know what I mean like we just have that really clean
01:07:01
relationship yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like that like um whereas Dan's family was completely
01:07:09
different I'd come home you know to the to to the flat and
01:07:15
they'll all be lying on the sofa together like lying in each other's laps her her brothers her mum or whatever
01:07:21
then her dad would come out the kitchen oh you were right Ash whatever it's just like this whole about and in the beginning I was like oh this is great
01:07:28
and on me like I I can't I can't deal with this this is weird you know that was my first
01:07:35
reaction this is weird but um I've learned to love it I become a part
01:07:42
of that family and I've learned to realize that I want some of that I wanted some of that you know I wanted
01:07:50
some of that doesn't make me love my like family any less but it's nice to get
01:07:58
some of that loving like some of that you know physical
01:08:04
stuff um so yeah that's where Dan comes from so her side of the street is always like
01:08:10
I'm like strap your boots up something's gone wrong how do we solve
01:08:16
it it's getting cracking and she wants to be like I want to talk about what went wrong
01:08:26
and I just can't understand like sometimes we're like chocolate cheese I'm just like
01:08:32
you want to sit there for an hour telling me how you feel how you feel and I don't
01:08:37
get that and I do have to like I need to understand that more slowly but surely
01:08:43
like I'm getting there slowly but surely I will I'll come a step closer but I'm quite
01:08:49
you know I can be quite cold as a husband and it doesn't that doesn't
01:08:56
work with her and she's a feisty woman as well so she's not scared to tell you
01:09:02
it reminds me of myself and my relationship but at the same time I know that that's exactly what I need
01:09:07
because imagine if I was in a relationship with someone like me it would be all too one way so it's it's
01:09:14
almost like the other person is a counterbalance and they're pulling aside out of me that's actually beneficial for
01:09:20
me and I've seen it's beneficial for me but I've given it willingly yeah yeah
01:09:25
you know yeah I'm kicking and screaming okay I'll kick it and scream it she's gonna be cracking up at this because I
01:09:32
don't even know whether she understands that I know yeah yeah and so you know but I do I get it and I struggle I
01:09:40
struggle with it but it's something that I like you know on a daily basis I'm just trying to
01:09:47
to give it more and you're right you're completely right it's like it helps me
01:09:53
and everything else that I'm doing kind of bringing that side of me out do you have any ideas why where that came from
01:10:01
I guess in one respect I think about it in my own context I go I never learn that no one ever told me that so it's
01:10:08
like alien Behavior but there is a part of me that at a deep level I feel uncomfortable with it like there's
01:10:14
something about when my girlfriend wants to sit down for an hour and talk about how she's feeling and the situation
01:10:20
we're in and stuff where I kind of get a bit of an allergic reaction to it for um and I kind of want to run and I kind of
01:10:26
just want to like what can I do to fix it now like do you know I mean what can I press by say just to end it to fix it
01:10:34
because something about me feels uncomfortable sharing my emotions
01:10:39
is it a defense thing in me you know I'm saying like is it or did I just not learn how to do it
01:10:46
or is it both I think it's I think It's a combination of both like I I know
01:10:51
for me I definitely haven't learned how how to to do that
01:10:58
um I don't know how to I'll send it to a friend yesterday I was like because he was like he was talking
01:11:05
about his wife and stuff and like she she's working now and he's not working
01:11:10
and her job finishes at like two in the morning she gets home about three and
01:11:16
then she wants to tell him about her day whilst they're in bed
01:11:22
and he's like he doesn't want to hear it because it
01:11:28
makes him feel like he wants to go and beat up her boss because you know the stuff that she's
01:11:34
telling him is like so he gets angry about it and it's like starts to hold resentments or whatever
01:11:39
but he keeps his mouth shut and I said I can't do that
01:11:46
because what happens with me is I I cannot just listen
01:11:53
you know I mean I've worked that out now like I it burns me to keep my mouth shut because
01:11:59
I want to solve it for you you're a fixer yeah I'm I'm a fixer I
01:12:05
feel like that's what I need to do there's no world
01:12:10
where I feel like you're telling me something just for me to listen to it like that's so crazy to me so I feel
01:12:17
like when you're telling me something it's like all right so you want me to you know you could be just saying I walk
01:12:22
down the street I fell over or whatever and you know that happened like last week or
01:12:28
whatever I'm like so should we book an appointment do you need to should we x-ray or like I need to do something and
01:12:35
I think the the key to you know but that's my mum was has been
01:12:41
like that you know my mum was shut up how are you going to fix it uh so you
01:12:49
leave be quiet what you know what I mean what's your next steps how are you going
01:12:54
to make this what you want to go there write me a business plan you know that's what I went through so
01:13:00
my life communication was for the precursor to take some action yeah it
01:13:05
wasn't as a way to connect yeah it went but let's sit down and just talk about each other's days I was like
01:13:13
God that must be difficult for in terms of like if I'm Danny your partner
01:13:18
she comes from that background she must have taken her a lot of work to understand you that it's not that you
01:13:24
don't love her it's none of that because that's how that must feel that coldness
01:13:30
um shall I be honest with you please she's it feels like that to her now
01:13:37
yeah I I don't think she's understands yeah I mean I'm I'm hoping
01:13:43
somewhere deep down she does because she still working with me have you told her though
01:13:50
have you told her this because I feel like you probably find it easier to talk to me than about the sort of person that
01:13:55
I am yeah all of the stuff you said like you said today yeah I mean we've done a lot of we do a lot of work on it we're in counseling
01:14:02
you know we're in counseling um every weekend that we discuss it you know we talk
01:14:08
about it I don't think I think the issue has been up until that point being in a
01:14:14
room where someone's slightly mediating and helping to pull things out of you I haven't felt comfortable enough to be
01:14:21
honest with her you know personally um but I think that's happening more now
01:14:27
and there's ways you know we're learning ways to kind of talk about issues that we have with each
01:14:33
other and you're a dad now so you've got kids so you must think about how that
01:14:38
generational cycle you talked about with your father then you is then gonna play out in the Next Generation 100 yeah I
01:14:45
mean you know I carry a lot of fear for that because
01:14:51
it hasn't gone great with all of my children you know I don't have the greatest relationship with all of my
01:14:57
kids especially my older ones um you had you had those when you were 17 those kids at 17 18 years old yeah
01:15:06
um you went to jail at 19 years old so you were absent for much of that period
01:15:11
yeah a lot of the first bits of their life and then when I wasn't I was out
01:15:16
you know I was touring I was me doing music and then I was acting and then
01:15:22
and then uh I mean if I'm honest with you like the other other times like I didn't I didn't care enough I didn't
01:15:30
you know I cared about them I loved my children but I didn't want
01:15:37
their the adult responsibilities that came with it and I didn't want to sacrifice
01:15:44
you know what I needed to do um in order to give to them so for a
01:15:49
long period of time I was like I was not I was not there in the way
01:15:55
that I should be and I know that I felt I pay I'm slightly paying the price for that now what is the price for them
01:16:02
is I feel like there's a slight distance
01:16:07
between me and my older kids you know there's a lack of trust there
01:16:14
um in feeling sometimes like you know why didn't they come to me yeah
01:16:21
about that yeah yeah you know yeah as for me to that's a dad thing to it's a dad
01:16:27
conversations I have um and as well I think I passed on my
01:16:35
my distant kind of ways to them so
01:16:42
you know as much as like when we're together we have an amazing time and whatever but they don't call me
01:16:49
that much you know um I think it's the same with me and my dad um I think uh we never really had a
01:16:56
close relationship I think he probably had the same with his father and I have the same with him
01:17:01
and my fear is how that translates downwards to the Next Generation
01:17:07
Um but me and my father I wouldn't say we're like he knows what's going on in my life other than him listening to this
01:17:12
um there isn't like the phone call to update him or anything so
01:17:18
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shopify.com Bartlett let me know how you get on thank you top boy
01:18:22
yeah crazy it's crazy how that all played out yeah yeah it's um
01:18:30
it's been an amazing journey you know um
01:18:35
never never thought it would actually when we're shooting the first season
01:18:43
I remember Kane looking at me and going are they gonna put this are they gonna put this on TV
01:18:51
because the subject matter you know some of the things we was in the process it was in we're shooting that scene where
01:18:57
we cut off um sway's finger in the market in summer house and we was
01:19:03
literally looking at each other like a channel four when I put this on TV because we've never seen anything
01:19:09
on TV like it at the time but you know cut from that to to where we
01:19:14
are today one of the biggest shows on Netflix one of our biggest kind of exports from the UK globally
01:19:23
and um and you know people walking down the street and people just
01:19:30
just hearing the Shane from every angle of London
01:19:35
um it's crazy you know it changed my life changed my life
01:19:41
in hindsight you see what how big of an opportunity it was but when someone approached you with that and that you saw the script and you saw
01:19:48
the role you'd be playing in it you must not have had an idea that it was gonna how did you think I didn't
01:19:55
do you know do you want to know why I did it right because because like literally months before I'd
01:20:01
said to my agent I said look sick of just being a bad boy or just
01:20:07
like I can't keep on playing these same roles like so all I'm getting is after I've done
01:20:13
bullet boy I was just getting the same scripts over and over again you've been typecasting Typecast yeah
01:20:19
and I was like I'm not you know I've done a bit of research I'd watched like
01:20:24
videos of other actors like black American actors had been in the same position and other people and I just
01:20:31
said look I have to be willing not to work but I wanna be seen for other roles
01:20:38
like I want to be um and she she made me know she was like look you may not get
01:20:43
any work for a while that means like no money no this and that and I was like so be it so that kind of that situation
01:20:51
came about but then the top boy script came I remember not too long after having that conversation
01:20:57
and for the first time for me reading that script I was like wow
01:21:03
it felt like like Good Fellas Scarface like all of
01:21:11
those shows those films that I've grown up on that were very violent don't get
01:21:17
me wrong but behind it all there was some structure and hierarchy it was the
01:21:23
first time that I'd seen black organized crime not looking like a bunch
01:21:30
of crazy kids with hoodies just doing crazy
01:21:35
and not having no you know with no sense it was like I read characters that were human
01:21:42
that I finally was like I saw the people behind the hood I understood why they was doing what
01:21:49
they was doing or what their motivation was for whether I agree to agreed with it or not
01:21:54
um and I saw a character in The Shane that was like aspired
01:21:59
for greater like he wanted he wanted to change the face of the game
01:22:05
you know his initial intention was that I can do this I'm gonna be the best at
01:22:11
it right but along the way I'm not gonna hurt people and I'm gonna feed everyone you know and
01:22:16
he wasn't like you know that entrepreneurial kind of it was like there within the script and
01:22:23
within the character and that was like it that turned me so like literally months after going I ain't doing no more
01:22:28
of these roles or whatever that script coming I was like yeah I'm doing this one though um and that's what made me that's what
01:22:34
made me do it and there was no hesitation once I've read it no once I read I never
01:22:40
read any anything like it and you gotta imagine I was reading loads of like when I say everything I read was about
01:22:47
a black boy from inner city London that was a drug dealer or was stabbing
01:22:53
someone or was shooting someone or whatever is like loads of different like iterations of the same character right
01:22:59
and when I read that just stood out for me it was something different I knew that there was
01:23:05
something different about it but I had no idea that it would cut through the way it did
01:23:11
Channel 4 just didn't do a third series all right they stopped um
01:23:17
at two series why was that I couldn't figure I couldn't figure that out from rummaging and reading
01:23:24
yeah I mean you're not the only one who can't figure it out I mean I I think over the years because I've been asked
01:23:29
that so much right I've learned or created scenarios that could
01:23:38
have happened oh okay right that I so I don't know but um
01:23:45
I do think there was a change of God around the time that it was the the third season should have been
01:23:52
commissioned yeah and I feel like when that happens um
01:23:58
ideas need to change in order for the new person to feel like they're not
01:24:03
living off the coattails of what the last person created that was successful and usually it's the most successful
01:24:09
thing that gets the ax then because there's nothing that you know I can't take the
01:24:15
credit for this success um so I feel like that might have been a
01:24:21
reason why or maybe there just wasn't the
01:24:26
the space there at the time for them to take it where it needed to go to the
01:24:32
next level but either way like we discussed before so good that it happened that way right
01:24:37
and it had that it's space to just not be around and for people to want it back
01:24:44
for so many years before we got into the new situation why did it come back in
01:24:50
your view um I think it timing wise when it was on
01:24:56
channel 4 it landed at such a pivotal time just in London and for culture
01:25:03
and you know coincided with
01:25:09
like your you know the real kind of social media kind of push and all of
01:25:16
that stuff so I think it was kind of cemented in people's minds and I think it was like
01:25:22
the first of its kind really to you know to do what it did so I think that that
01:25:27
having that fan base that key kind of Niche sort of fan base cult fan base
01:25:33
kept it alive and then I think it translated as well didn't it really interestingly because a lot of the the
01:25:39
work at that time that was one on the surface might think was similar those stories of you know like
01:25:46
um of London and young black men and and crime and all of that stuff they didn't
01:25:52
translate well globally um they didn't cross over to like different audiences and in the same way
01:25:58
that for some reason top boy just crossed over and maybe it's because of that complexity and that how thought
01:26:03
through the the plots and storylines and characters are and it wasn't just surface level like yeah a lot of
01:26:09
the other stuff was like stereotypical surface level yeah it was it was there
01:26:15
were humans on the page yeah what happened you walk away from the that you root for these characters no matter what
01:26:21
they're doing like and that's because they're 3D so you understand kind of
01:26:27
what's going on in their heads I think we from the beginning we've always Incorporated
01:26:34
um what's going on outside of
01:26:39
that world like you know like the you know I think in like season one on channel four it was like Mental Health
01:26:46
you know there's a lot of other issues that we were throwing in there like um
01:26:52
you know with the little kid gem Soul just kind of his family structure and
01:26:57
neglect from his parents and stuff like that there was other things that kind of
01:27:03
we we talked about um that you just didn't get in the other
01:27:08
shows and then we had I mean a big big a big part of this puzzle was Yan
01:27:14
and demands um because he's a filmmaker right he's a
01:27:20
very cinematic well-versed kind of filmmaker
01:27:26
um that knows how to get brilliant performances out of people
01:27:32
um and remember you know maybe nine percent of our cost in that first season had never acted
01:27:39
before it's crazy so you needed someone at the helm driving that
01:27:44
that had a clear understanding of how to get great performances out of people that hadn't had that much experience and
01:27:51
also shoot a beautiful TV show what do you have to do to get the best performance out of yourself do you have
01:27:57
any rituals or anything when you know you're you're going on set is there anything that you do to make to embody
01:28:02
the character and to also just like get yourself in the right frame of mind I have I have no
01:28:10
set of rules but um I'm open to
01:28:17
being willing to do what it takes for any given it's different every time you
01:28:22
know I've had characters where I've gone into to play that I'm like I don't even
01:28:28
know if I can do this so I'm scared so I would do everything like I'm not
01:28:34
eating um uh a mover don't speak to people that I
01:28:40
love like you know this was for a role where I played like um an alcoholic like
01:28:45
crack addicted like character I stopped eating food you know I needed
01:28:52
to lose the weight I needed to feel homeless so I kind of put myself in a
01:28:58
situation where I left my household and I slept on a mattress in a one bedroom
01:29:04
kind of apartment thing and like really pushed myself to the limits
01:29:10
because sometimes I like I don't know how else I'm gonna do something like just being able to act
01:29:15
isn't enough like I I need to feel it like I need to you know and then there's
01:29:21
other times where I'm like actually I don't need to do that much like I know this
01:29:26
person like quite well you know I need to be well versed on on
01:29:32
who that character is what their backstory is so I can be free like when
01:29:38
I'm in the moment but you know I I'm just I'm not one of these guys that have like a set of rules and a
01:29:46
lot of the time I believe less is more you know I don't want to be over prepared because then I feel like
01:29:55
there's no vulnerability you know so it gets picked up by Netflix yeah and
01:30:03
it becomes a mega mega show one of their their biggest shows of all time
01:30:08
um life changes for you hugely you go on this journey for another two seasons on Netflix and then you have one final
01:30:16
season on its way how do you feel about that
01:30:22
it's a bittersweet what's the bitter and what's this way
01:30:27
um it's bitter that
01:30:35
some of the people on that show
01:30:40
that I've worked with the whole time I've been doing it a lot of my family you know
01:30:46
um and actually I know we've discussed this the type of person
01:30:52
that I am I'm not going to see them that much after right
01:30:58
it was our reason for connection um
01:31:04
and so what happens in this world you move on you make other families you develop other relationships so
01:31:10
I worry about like losing those connections a bit
01:31:16
um you look sad as you say it I can see the emotion in your face yeah it's that's a bit of a thing for me it's like
01:31:24
remember you spend more time with these people than you do with your actual family you know you invest so much into
01:31:31
them and so it's tough I mean and and I mean if I'm honest with you the last
01:31:38
film in the last season brought me and Kane probably even closer
01:31:44
than we've ever been kind of doing that show because
01:31:49
we don't have the greatest time you know fighting for what we we believed in
01:31:55
um and making it the best show that we could make it be you know the best last season for the fans like people don't
01:32:02
understand like we go hard for that show we go hard to make sure the scripts are right we go hard to make
01:32:10
sure other characters are being represented in the way they should be and storylines make sense on whatever
01:32:15
and the truth is we faced a lot of resistance this time around you know we
01:32:22
wasn't given the creative input all the time that we desired and
01:32:28
this is like a common thing you know this happens behind the scenes so this is not me being a in a grass or anything it's just like
01:32:34
it's the reality and sometimes you know when there's seven execs eight execs not
01:32:39
everyone agrees and you've got a you know you have to it's business you've been there right yeah so it was it was tough we went for
01:32:48
a tough experience we haven't been through before and that brought us closer together so
01:32:54
it's even harder knowing that this is the last time because we developed another level to our relationship where
01:32:59
I was like ah like as businessmen like routine we're a team as well you know
01:33:04
what I mean um you know but the sweet thing about it if you want to make you know end on a
01:33:11
positive is that I've got my life back you know it's I mean
01:33:18
to a certain extent the Shane is a very popular character
01:33:24
um but when I say life back meaning I can pursue other avenues
01:33:29
um you know contractually I was tied down to that show for for a long time you know that's
01:33:36
how it works and it'd be nice to to see what else is out there what else I can do where I
01:33:42
can take my career um you scared a little bit I was just gonna say that yeah so it's also scary because
01:33:49
that was um is to get that stability in
01:33:56
in the acting game is very rare you know usually if you want that sort of stability with a show or whatever then
01:34:03
you have to you have to go and do a soap hmm you know um don't really get it from like drama
01:34:10
like that um so yeah it's been nice it's been good for
01:34:16
the family it's been good for me to focus on
01:34:21
just being an artist and enjoying what I do rather than worrying about
01:34:27
mortgages and you know other stuff but um but yeah been a brilliant time did you
01:34:33
win the fight when I say the fight you're in um YouTuber fighting to have the show be
01:34:38
the way you want it to be are you happy with how it's ended up this final season
01:34:44
yeah yeah I mean look
01:34:50
I wouldn't say necessarily that we won um but I think the process of pushing
01:34:57
back and fighting for what you're believing
01:35:03
always without doing that I don't think we
01:35:09
would have got to where we got to I think that you the push and pull that happens within that process is what
01:35:17
makes the show as good as it is you'll never be able to see the impact it's had on young
01:35:22
people's lives all around the world and perceptions shifting and all of these things but
01:35:28
if you were to try and Define that what is the impact you think the show has had on culture on the world exactly that I
01:35:36
think um if I can Define it it will be
01:35:43
I had him I had a I had a meeting today um
01:35:49
with like a Nigerian um
01:35:55
a ligerian man that owns like a record label a very famous record label right and and production company
01:36:02
um and we sat down today and we was talking and he was like
01:36:07
thank you because it's made his job a lot easier you know I had the same
01:36:14
conversation with Giggs who spends a lot of time in the states and he was like
01:36:20
I don't have to explain myself anymore when I go out there like around the world they now because of the show they
01:36:27
kind of know where I come from you know so when it comes to marketing or whatever
01:36:34
you don't mean like announcing yourself when you go somewhere into a new territory or whatever
01:36:39
it's like there is an association for them to to have and I think that's what
01:36:45
the show has done it's kind of taken us from
01:36:50
cups of tea and biscuits and period drama and maybe not in hill or whatever
01:36:55
you know stuff like that to the rest of the world kind of understanding that you know and there's
01:37:03
another side to what we we have and I think as a foundation as a way of opening the
01:37:09
door into the international market accepting what we export
01:37:16
I think is really good I think now from here we should push on into
01:37:22
telling black stories um
01:37:27
that don't necessarily have to be from the same world as top boy you know they should be black detectives there should
01:37:33
be black superheroes they should be black you know we can the boundaries are you know they're endless but I think
01:37:40
that it's open it's really opened the door internationally for like people trusting in in what we give them
01:37:48
um we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question in my diary for the next guest
01:37:53
not knowing who they're gonna leave it for sick the question in the diary left for you is you've got one phone call left
01:37:59
to your children what do you say to them oh
01:38:09
[Music] um
01:38:17
probably [Laughter]
01:38:23
what I always say to my kids when I leave the house don't eat my chicken wings
01:38:29
[Laughter] no I know on a real note it would be
01:38:36
it's I know it's cliche but it would be that I love you you know and I think
01:38:41
that's I didn't tell my dad that before he left
01:38:47
and yeah we didn't you know we didn't have
01:38:54
those conversations and he didn't tell me that not in not using those words
01:39:01
and um I'm assuming that this last conversation would probably be the last time that I
01:39:08
see them so I'd want them to know that um
01:39:14
yeah Yeah Ashley yes sir I can't wait I can't wait for to see this last season
01:39:20
um I share that excitement with everybody else that's listening right now and thank you for creating a piece of art over the years and fighting for
01:39:26
that piece of art with um to hope to keep its integrity and to keep the resonance that it's had with everybody
01:39:32
that's consumed it um even when it's easier not to and I can I understanding you I understand why
01:39:38
that fight was so important for you and I'm exceptionally excited because of your experiences and because of that
01:39:45
um that take on your art form that you've developed over the last two three decades
01:39:51
to watch your at your directing career continue to play out I know you're working on some incredible things at the
01:39:56
moment I know you've been working very very hard on those things um that's a conversation for another time
01:40:02
but if it's anything like a lot of the art you've created in your life and it has that perspective that integrity and that personality I think it's going to
01:40:08
have equal impact on the world that top boy and all of the other projects you've been involved in over the last two and a
01:40:13
half decades have had on people that is a really really special thing and as I say I'm I'm I couldn't it couldn't have
01:40:19
happened to a to a more deserving individual in my opinion I I think it's
01:40:24
weird to have this feeling that I'm so happy this you've had this in your life and I'm so excited to see what plays out
01:40:29
for you I know it's going to be something special because although you talk about Talent I'm not quite convinced that it's just
01:40:36
a a god-given talent alone I think there's a ton of hard work dedication
01:40:41
perfectionism love craft dedication kindness people skills I think there's a
01:40:47
lot of perspective I think there's a lot of hardship there's a lot of rebounding there's a lot of rejection that you've
01:40:52
had to overcome to get here um and that's a very um a very admirable thing that we can all be inspired by and that
01:40:57
we are so thank you Ashley thank you for taking the time and thank you for your generosity oh thank you man thank you for having me being so good to be here
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