00:00:06
[Music] everybody's got a price hey everybody Jesse here from the best interest if
00:00:16
you're a regular podcast listener here this one's going to be a little different every Sunday night a group of
00:00:22
seven of us Financial educators are hopping onto Twitter spaces which is a new feature on Twitter that allows audio
00:00:28
chat rooms each week we're going to be tackling a different topic drawing on
00:00:33
our various experiences and knowledge sets we're calling this show up and to
00:00:38
the right the direction of growth be it personal or financial we're recording
00:00:43
these sessions and I'll be posting them here on the best interest podcast feed
00:00:47
thanks all for listening we had a really fun chat with some really good knowledge
00:00:51
and I hope you come check us out next Sunday night on Twitter and as always an investment in knowledge pays the best
00:00:58
interest so hello everybody and welcome to up and to the right a weekly Twitter spaces
00:01:13
where we discuss investing personal finance and really any idea that helps us better understand the world of money
00:01:21
today we are going to be talking about Bitcoin but before we go into that let's
00:01:25
take a few seconds to introduce our speakers and we'll start with a couple of main speakers today so let's go with
00:01:32
Andy why don't you introduce yourself Andy hello everybody my name is Andy um
00:01:39
I talk about investing money in crypto and making money online here on Twitter and on my YouTube
00:01:47
channel thanks Andy Dave why don't you say hello hi uh my name is David uh other one knows my handle here is
00:01:55
uncommon yield uh and I try to bring a different perspective to money trying to look at different ways that um you can
00:02:02
leverage your money ways that uh you can maybe take some some asymmetric risk too
00:02:07
so uh if you want to just find somebody that's going to tell you just invest in
00:02:11
index funds and don't worry about anything else and pay down your debt I'm
00:02:14
not your guy but if you want to look at things maybe a little bit differently um
00:02:18
why don't you you know follow me follow actually follow all the guys here um and
00:02:23
um yeah maybe we'll learn something together excellent thank you Dave and now I'm just going to go in order across
00:02:29
the screen we got Roger why don't you say hello hi everybody I'm Roger um my
00:02:35
handle here is at upshot wealth um a little about me I basically at age of 35 build a million dollar net worth uh all
00:02:42
working a 9et to-5 so it's possible and uh my focus on Twitter is really showing
00:02:48
people like how they can build their net worth and like how to maximize things like 401k if you have access to them and
00:02:54
just talking money strategies perfect thank you Roger uh Adam how you doing Adam I'm doing well
00:03:03
so yep I'm Adam here H basically I started doing Twitter documenting our debt Journey paid off a little over 30
00:03:12
or a little over 31 Grand and now just kind of showing on Twitter some of our financial moves and um some things to
00:03:18
maximize your money excellent thank you Adam Brandon how you doing man hey I'm doing great um
00:03:25
so yeah my name is Brandon I write a blog called rinky do fin I'm all about um you know Building
00:03:33
Wealth in a simple way so if you do want somebody to tell you to just buy index funds I'm the guy um that's that's my
00:03:41
stick I'm all about Building Wealth simply excellent thank you Brandon and last we're gonna pass it over to Shadow
00:03:51
hey guys at Shadow Rin on Twitter uh the guy in a group that believes in buying real assets not fake ones uh such as is
00:03:59
real estate uh developed a portfolio of over 1.2 million in The Last 5 Years and
00:04:05
about 22 units so real estates uh my space thank you Shadow uh my name is Jesse at best
00:04:15
interest JC I run the best interest which is a Blog a podcast and a newsletter for financial advisers who
00:04:23
want to save time and get a hold of their clients speaking of real assets I am fully invested in beanie
00:04:30
babies but today we're not talking about Beanie Babies we are talking about Bitcoin and uh we're going to talk pros
00:04:37
and cons of Bitcoin you're going to hear some bull arguments you're going to hear
00:04:41
some bare questions and hear the Bulls defend themselves and I think we are going to start tonight with Andy giving
00:04:49
us some overview of his views on bitcoin why he got involved with it where he sees it going in the future and really
00:04:56
just you know as from an expert's point of view the the whole Bitcoin protocol
00:05:01
argument so Andy without any further Ado do you want to take the mic would be happy to and I love this uh
00:05:10
early shade being thrown out thank you for that love it sign me up uh so I'll
00:05:17
give you a quick uh like high level overview of Bitcoin I'll touch on just a
00:05:22
couple of quick points uh that I think are significant um and then see wherever else I end up I'll try to keep it short
00:05:30
and concise and then we can kind of roll into the rest of this so for those who are in the dark what is back what is
00:05:38
bitcoin um Bitcoin is a decentralized digital currency it is the biggest one by uh market cap and network uh the
00:05:47
network size and all that good stuff it was launched in January of 2009 by a person or a group of people um that are
00:05:58
unknown uh under the pseudonym uh Satoshi Nakamoto uh it um unlike fiat currency
00:06:08
um Bitcoin is created it's uh distributed it's traded it's stored um
00:06:14
on a decentralized ledger system um which we call a blockchain um a blockchain is basically
00:06:22
the way I like to think about it is when you have your money in a bank account at
00:06:26
Chase Bank or Wells Fargo or take your pick um you put money in that account you
00:06:31
have an account number and they have basically a spreadsheet and they have your name and next to it they have how
00:06:36
much you have uh in your account when you take money out they change that they are the central Authority on telling you
00:06:43
how much money you have in your account uh they hold the keys to that well Bitcoin in much the same way there is a
00:06:50
spreadsheet a ledger and it is a public one and so you have your account you have your Bitcoin address that has your
00:06:57
Bitcoin on it and the world knows how much you have um and more so the World At Large who are on the network um are
00:07:05
the ones who maintain that so when you send Bitcoin to somebody else or receive it uh that transaction is broadcast
00:07:13
across the entire network across the globe and if all the people on the network all the miners the nodes the
00:07:19
people using it um recognize that as a legitimate transaction then they record that for all the world to see on the
00:07:26
public Ledger that you have either more or less Bitcoin than when you started and that is one of the beauties of of
00:07:33
Bitcoin um it is completely decentralized and I believe largely uh uncontrollable um another beautiful
00:07:41
feature of Bitcoin uh built into the code is that it is a zero terminal velocity inflation rate currency meaning
00:07:50
the US government prints money they make new money uh every year they decide on how much that's going to be you know
00:07:57
there seems to be no Rhyme or reason to how that works sometimes uh and Bitcoin is not like that at all Bitcoin is uh uh
00:08:05
programmatic money it's a programmatic currency meaning it has uh zero terminal
00:08:10
velocity on that inflation rate it is known um the inflation rate for the next 100 years is mapped out with mathematics
00:08:18
and the code um and it is defined by the uh the network at large protecting that
00:08:24
uh by mathematical uh equations uh so it is very easy to predict how much going to be and all that good stuff and so on
00:08:32
that note uh there are currently about uh 18 a little over 18 million Bitcoin in circulation with a maximum capacity
00:08:41
on the entire uh network of 21 million Bitcoin to ever exist um and I think that these numbers are some of the most
00:08:51
significant because um when you have a finite uh asset like this uh there is and there if there is demand for it well
00:09:00
then there's only so much to go around for example there are currently uh 46
00:09:06
something million 46 million millionaires in the world and there will only ever be 21 million
00:09:12
Bitcoin um there is if you take all the people on the globe and you take the amount of Bitcoin that there will ever
00:09:18
be and you spread it out across uh the globe there can only uh everyone can uh 1% of all the world's population can
00:09:25
only own like 0.21 Bitcoin or something like that uh it's a crazy small amount
00:09:32
of currency uh of asset for how many people there are on the planet which is one of the biggest reasons why I'm so
00:09:38
bullish on it um but also because it solves so many problems with our current uh currencies current savings vehicles
00:09:46
um it's uh in my opinion very reliable has a massive amount of network effect
00:09:51
behind it has an incredible amount um maybe even arguably the most amount of computational uh Power on the Planet
00:09:59
behind it um and uh that all that rolled into the momentum that it's been gaining
00:10:05
this during this bull cycle with uh uh institutional interest uh retail interest um coverage uh across the uh
00:10:14
the Spectrum uh I think there is a lot of massive massive upside with very minimal uh downside uh to it which is
00:10:22
why I tell everybody that if you are serious about investing you're serious about growing your money and you do not
00:10:29
have a little bit even 1% exposure to bitcoin you are crazy so there you go that is the uh basic overview I'm sure I
00:10:37
missed a lot of stuff but that is uh what I'll cover for the opening thank you Andy sorry I struggle
00:10:46
over here I'm still on a iPhone that's like 10 years old so sometimes I can't
00:10:50
turn my microphone back on thank you for that overview though Andy that very comprehensive uh to the people in the
00:10:57
crowd if you have questions throughout feel free to DM me bestore JC and we are going to hear some questions from our
00:11:07
panel some bearish questions directed towards Andy but I think before we get to those I did want to hand the
00:11:13
microphone over to uncommon yield Dave I mean do you have anything Dave that you
00:11:17
want to add because I know you're you're fairly bullish on bitcoin do you want to
00:11:21
add anything to to Andy's argument Andy's uh statements no I mean I think
00:11:26
Andy really gave a a really comprehensive uh overview that was really well said just to just to dive a
00:11:34
little bit more into though um where Bitcoin is going and who's buying Bitcoin right now I mean we even see a
00:11:44
really old conservative insurance companies Mass Mutual they they bought a hundred
00:11:50
million doll worth of bitcoin back in the fall you know that and now for them that's probably less than 1% of their
00:11:58
portfolio but I think you need to ask yourself if Mass Mutual who's a really
00:12:04
conservative insurance company if they are dipping their tone to bitcoin why you know like why why why
00:12:11
would a company like that do that when 60% of their portfolios in bonds and other super safe Investments like what's
00:12:19
the what's the reason for it and I I think it's because of what Andy said
00:12:23
there is a limited Supply and those that hold some Bitcoin it it might be a really big deal
00:12:29
um so that would be the one thing I would thanks Dave yeah that that that does make sense that does make sense and
00:12:39
uh before I I don't want to give away my two cents too quickly but Brandon I
00:12:43
think I'm gonna hand the mic over to you because I know you had some questions
00:12:46
for these guys some bearish questions do you want to ask away yeah so my first thought would be you
00:12:56
know I think so when when I to to give some background I was really really bullish on bitcoin you know four years
00:13:02
ago I was investing heavily in it and what sort of change my mind was that I reached a place where I was like well
00:13:09
let's think about this as a currency number one deflationary currencies are not
00:13:15
necessarily the best thing because if if everybody thinks that what they have is
00:13:20
going to be worth more tomorrow why are they going to spend that asset you know why are they
00:13:26
going to buy things and and buying things is what really drives the economy right like you know people buying cars
00:13:31
people buying goods and services so a deflationary asset I don't think I think
00:13:37
that aspect of it you know from the from the standpoint of Bitcoin being a replacement for currency I think that's
00:13:44
a bit overrated and people kind of see that and you know immediately assume it's a good thing I think there are
00:13:51
issues with that now I know people conversely will say okay well Bitcoin is actually
00:13:59
a store of value it's a replacement for gold and there just seems to be a disconnect as to what exactly people are
00:14:07
expecting you know is it going to replace the US dollar or is it digital gold because I don't I don't think it's
00:14:14
a viable replacement for the US dollar at all any thoughts there from the Bulls yeah so I can touch on a little bit of
00:14:25
that um so the I mean there's there's a couple of of thoughts and U kind of
00:14:31
beliefs behind where Bitcoin is going and I think uh it is not a um a kind of singular Viewpoint um so Bitcoin at its
00:14:41
core the base layer of Bitcoin I think there is a lot to be set and a lot of argument there that can go into about
00:14:47
how that um can definitely be a a digital gold a gold replacement it basically in my opinion uh solves all
00:14:55
the problems of gold uh improves upon them uh with the one with the one downside of it's not shiny and you can't
00:15:02
use it um in electronics but everything else I think it uh Far and Away exceeds where gold fails uh but then on top of
00:15:10
that uh what is currently still I mean this is all very early in development the big scheme of things I mean that the
00:15:16
internet uh was you know in invented and first uh started in the in the 70s or late 60s um and you know we're just now
00:15:24
where we are with it so a 12-year-old currency where Bitcoin currently is still very early
00:15:29
um but even earlier than Bitcoin um in development is uh layer two technologies like lightning for example which that
00:15:37
would be more so an appropriate layer an approp appropriate technology stack for
00:15:42
um day-to-day currency um for use in that uh so I think there's different different use cases for Bitcoin um and a
00:15:49
lot of this uh comes down to it needs uh to get even more momentum to grow in size uh nobody is going to want to spend
00:15:56
their Bitcoin on coffee when um you know it's 30,000 one day and it's uh 60 the
00:16:03
next and it's 40 uh the week after that uh but at some point uh through these
00:16:07
Cycles there is going to be in my opinion there's going to be stability um is going to reach some kind of um
00:16:14
critical mass it's going to reach some level of mass adoption um my view it's
00:16:19
probably be going to become the um uh the premier if if not one of the Premier uh World Reserve currencies um and uh
00:16:29
and then on top of that there's going to be all these layers where people don't
00:16:31
even know that they're necessarily using uh Bitcoin for uh the transactions you
00:16:37
know uh it's just going to be the back end of all that good stuff um and so you
00:16:40
know at that point spending it it'll be just like spending just about anything
00:16:44
else um and a lot of it will be invisible um but yeah so anyway that's a lot a lot of thoughts I'll maybe David
00:16:51
has a few few as well yeah I think the one point you brand you brought up at being a deflationary currency and that's
00:16:57
not a good thing well I mean I think we have to go back in history when we didn't have fiat currency and what did
00:17:03
that look like did people not lend or borrow then you know I think so this is where like my my Austrian view of
00:17:10
Economics comes out when you have really cheap money what happens is people take
00:17:14
really outsid risks when people take really outsid risks you get stuff like the 2008 financial crisis right
00:17:22
so when you have a currency that is hard money that you can't inflate you can't
00:17:27
dis print more when you lend you lend in a way that makes sense and where you don't take outside risk as a creditor so
00:17:36
that would be my response I mean I we had people that lent money and did all kinds of you know normal Financial
00:17:43
transactions in the economy before that I Fiat money can definitely supercharge an economy but it can also supercharge
00:17:51
it to the downside too so I think that would be my my comment is I I I don't think that necessarily
00:17:58
makes it economically unviable I follow I follow what you're saying and a couple points that Andy
00:18:06
touched on I do want to come back to them the two points are mass adoption and then also the possibility in the
00:18:14
future of having a system in place where people are unaware that they're spending
00:18:19
Bitcoin because some sort of interface that they're using in front of them basically puts Bitcoin in the background
00:18:26
and I I kind of relate that to the current cred crit card system so I want to come back to those two ideas but we
00:18:32
did have I believe a request for the microphone come in from bunk Freeman so I think Roger's gonna hand the mic to
00:18:39
Bunk Freeman bunk just so you know we're quick to cut people off if they go down
00:18:44
rabbit holes so feel free to ask your question and other folks feel free to request the mic feel free to DM
00:18:50
questions if you have them bunk I think you're going to be set up with the mic
00:18:53
here in a couple seconds I don't know if he left actually he might have just left right
00:19:03
before well you know what I think he lives up to his name that is a bunch of bunk that's that's
00:19:10
fair um well let me ask you one question Andy because you you did bring up the idea of man wait wait he's Jesse before
00:19:18
we go he's back and he's uh he's got speaker privileges oh Mike sorry about that guys jumped
00:19:26
out um yeah Brandon um wanted to respond to um your comment about um deflationary
00:19:35
currency um I think uncommon yield hit on it well um but at the end of the day fiat currency
00:19:43
is a relatively new phenomenon this is something that didn't go into full effect since
00:19:48
1971 uh and if we look back through history if we look at the gold standard the Bell aox so to speak from 1871 to
00:19:55
1913 that was a most deflationary environment ever and more zero to one Creations happen during that time than
00:20:02
any other and the reason and you got to ask yourself why that is the why that is
00:20:07
is because people have a lower time preference it's not a growth at all cost
00:20:11
system and people are able to actually create and to innovate um under a deflationary mindset
00:20:18
under a deflationary environment we we will be in a world where you're not on the hamster
00:20:25
wheel where you're not bound to the 9et to-5 where humans can actually Tinker um
00:20:33
and if you look back in the history of the world the greatest art the greatest inventions the greatest music they all
00:20:39
came in a deflationary environment and the why for that is because people had a low time Preference they didn't have to
00:20:45
worry about their money devaluing and I think that's something that needs to be
00:20:49
taken into account um and we also got to remember kingian economics is new this started
00:20:55
literally 1971 and we're on a path right now we're we're seeing Global it could be Global
00:21:03
disaster so just my two cents hey hey bunk real quick question you mentioned something in there you said a zero to
00:21:10
one growth something what was that you mentioned so Peter theel often talks about zero to one and one to many gotcha
00:21:19
okay okay the zero to one invention is the thing that occurs that spawns the one to many zero to one is exponentially
00:21:27
hard harder than one to many and if you look back for instance the period of 1871 to
00:21:34
1913 there were more zero to one inventions than at any time in history and that was during the deflationary
00:21:41
period excellent thank you Mike and so that's Peter teal founder of PayPal along with Elon Musk writer of the book
00:21:48
zero to one if you want to read more about Peter teal right thank you for that Mike appreciate
00:21:56
that uh appreciate that Insight that was very wise very wise um any anybody any of our speakers
00:22:03
have any any thoughts back at Mike before we go on to another question sure I'll put in my two cents I
00:22:11
thinking about Bitcoin as a currency I guess my biggest issue with Bitcoin is not saying that I don't believe in it I
00:22:17
have some belief that it could be the future I think my difficulty and kind of goes with kind of what Brandon's
00:22:24
thinking with regards to currency I think for right now I think the difficulty of even seeing
00:22:28
as a currency is it's volatility it's so volatile and when you look at currency
00:22:34
in general I mean going from one day to the next and something's dropped your
00:22:40
currency is going down 10% is at least not something we would expect for example from let's say the dollar right
00:22:47
um so I I think that's the difficulty I have with regards to looking at it as a
00:22:51
currency today as a store of value kind of makes more sense because you're kind
00:22:55
of hoping that it does go up in the future but we're also you know in in uh I think like Andy says we are in an
00:23:03
early you know bitcoin's in its very early stages even today so where that goes in the future is you know time will
00:23:09
tell but those are kind of my two cents on it yeah and uh the whole price volatility thing I know that that that
00:23:18
is a stumbling block for a lot of people but I honestly believe um I think volatility is good at this stage I think
00:23:24
you need volatility for Price Discovery I think there is a whole lot of price Discovery still to happen with Bitcoin
00:23:31
uh I think uh that if there is any long-term conviction that you have about it um then uh that is something that's
00:23:37
just going to have to be written out um until uh it figures out uh where uh it it exists in the marketplace which I
00:23:45
think is many many times more um market cap than it currently uh covers and so gu that comes down to the part where and
00:23:54
which you you know Roger you've already you've already said that you know you do
00:23:56
you are a bit of a believer enough that you aren't unexposed to it but uh it's
00:24:01
just uh being exposed to that volatility now um you have all that upside or it can be you know you can wait until a lot
00:24:08
of that has subsided till things stabilized till it has um reached those kind of um areas that it needs to reach
00:24:15
uh to to achieve that uh but then there's limited upside there um and that's when I do believe that once we
00:24:20
get through those periods that's when it becomes more of a store of value whereas
00:24:24
I don't currently believe it's there yet I believe it's going to be a future one
00:24:27
but is not currently one Beyond being a great investment vehicle that's a good answer that's a
00:24:35
good answer go ahead go ahead Brandon yeah one question to sort of build on what on the direction we're going um so
00:24:42
for disclosure my if I had to sum up my view I would say that in terms of cryptocurrencies as a whole were were
00:24:49
similar to know the internet in the 90s where there are a ton of companies and some will be huge in 20 years
00:24:58
and some you won't even remember so my question and I'd be interested to hear
00:25:02
what the Bulls have to say is you know why Bitcoin um because I I am more bullish on other cryptocurrencies like
00:25:12
ethereum but I'm not completely sure why Bitcoin has to be you know the big one I mean uh my my answer to this is
00:25:24
always uh number one network effect uh no other currency has the network effect and momentum that Bitcoin does uh and
00:25:32
then if I couple that with the um reality that it was in my opinion very fairly launched um which is a next to
00:25:40
Impossible thing to do now that the kind of U the genie is out of the bottle uh more or less uh a lot of people talk
00:25:47
about you know in the 90s or you know late 2000 in the 2000s and stuff thing you know companies like AOL these were
00:25:53
big shining stars coming out of the dot and internet um uh initial age right and
00:26:00
they've lost all their luster since then but I think this uh the the argument of
00:26:04
relating this to sum of that period is it's inaccurate because these are all
00:26:09
companies started by people um a lot of time publicly traded um and this is not an analog for Bitcoin at all Bitcoin was
00:26:17
an anonymously uh created um no one knows who started it it was launched into the world in the most fair fair way
00:26:24
possible um at the time and it has since had organ IC uh growth adoption and development um since then and based on
00:26:32
all those factors that's why I believe it's going to win out I think it has the
00:26:35
the greatest Head Start I think it has some of the greatest technology um and I think any shortcomings that can be
00:26:41
solved by other currencies uh can also be solved uh with with Bitcoin in um interesting uh ways without being overly
00:26:49
complicated uh without being um uh muddled down by uh people who are known and able to control it
00:26:59
just to to piggy continue to pigy back up what Andy said I you know it's so big
00:27:04
I mean it's just so much bigger than everything else in the space I mean Bitcoin dominance is if usually it's
00:27:10
over 50% I think it's a little bit under that right now you know somebody correct
00:27:15
me if I'm wrong but it it's so much bigger than the entire crypto space in
00:27:20
general um you see companies publicly traded companies and like other companies like I mentioned Mass Mutual
00:27:26
like put it on their balance sheet actually invest in it I like I'm really bullish on ethereum too but I don't
00:27:33
think we're going to see any companies put ethereum on their balance sheet anytime soon just because there's not
00:27:39
that guarantee of limited Supply you know I think EIP 1559 I know somebody Stephen would probably bring that up I
00:27:47
know he's listening um where that could be a big deflationary impact on etherum
00:27:51
but you know the ethereum foundation has said like in the past that they're going
00:27:55
to do whatever they need to do to secure the network and if that means inflating
00:27:57
it they're going to inflate it so and two there's no there's no since there's
00:28:02
no Central group I mean who Who Who Are You Gonna Who you gonna go extort for Bitcoin you know there's nobody right
00:28:11
it's the whole network you can go extort the ethereum network you can go extort
00:28:16
the chain link Foundation you know there are places you can go for other cryptocurrencies that's not the fact
00:28:21
here it's really it's it's actually is decentralized it is a decentralized
00:28:26
finance compared a lot of the other things that are out there so I that's where I think that's that's the main
00:28:32
difference for me from an investment thesis and to jump on that uh with one more thought um the you know talking
00:28:40
about you know next next competitors well obviously you know ethereum is uh next on that list when you go to you
00:28:47
know coin market cap or something like that it's it's the next biggest um but
00:28:52
the fundamentals are completely different uh you know uhit uh Bitcoin has a set uh cap of 21 million ethereum
00:28:59
has no cap it's unlimited um and you know there there are dynamics in in that
00:29:05
with it uh changing currently uh moving to you know proof of stake whenever that
00:29:10
finally happens U But ultimately uh just the core level with many of these uh the
00:29:16
uh the fundamentals the the basics of the uh that are engineered into it are fundamentally different um and I believe
00:29:23
that Bitcoin has some of the strongest uh fundamentals amongst all the other reasons I mentioned uh for um becoming
00:29:30
th those things in the future like a world Reserve currency for example I follow you guys I do follow
00:29:37
you guys I have a I have a bare question in a little bit um but we do have some good questions from the crowd Financial
00:29:44
Freedom page I've got your question up on Deck but before we get to that I think we wanted to hand the microphone
00:29:50
over to Stephen uh at my wealth money who not only asked us a bunch of questions uh in text beforehand and but
00:29:58
Stephen when we give you the microphone here feel free to verbalize how you doing Stephen let let us know what are
00:30:03
your questions man hey guys how you doing can you hear me hey yeah yep we can we can awesome
00:30:12
feel like I'm saying hi to you guys for the first time but I've been uh tweeting and conversing with you
00:30:17
guys so much over the last couple of weeks and stuff has been great so and just really appreciate the channel you
00:30:22
guys got going here and uh wish you all the best of luck with it and I hope it grows and loads um so
00:30:30
just I think my first question I have is uh is for Andy there uh just your your take on the next five years where you
00:30:39
see it going um I'm not looking for a for a price prediction it's it's I would kind of almost think like a
00:30:48
Fool's game trying to predict where this thing's going to go in five years but
00:30:51
just kind of a a bull case for you where you think it could go in the next five years and then also on top of that
00:30:58
what those biggest risks would be uh that could happen um and would any of those make you want to uh stump your
00:31:09
Holdings that you have Hey Stephen good to finally uh chat with you uh so um predictions I mean I
00:31:21
think we I I I I tweeted today uh talking about this cycle I don't think this cycle is over um I think this cycle
00:31:28
this bull cycle still has some time to play out um I think uh honestly what we're going to see over the next five to
00:31:34
10 years is uh just more and more of what we have already seen um and what we've seen a lot of this year which is
00:31:41
the uh institutional adoption I think there's going to I think especially um
00:31:47
and I know you asked a question about him I think what Michael sailor did with his company micro strategy I think
00:31:53
that's another one of those kind of watershed moments uh with uh with Bitcoin I think that is we're going to
00:32:00
see more and more uh companies uh institutions um funds where it becomes uh crazy to not have it on the balance
00:32:09
sheet in some uh in some regard I personally think he's I know you asked about him I I personally think that
00:32:14
Michael sailor is uh is a bit of a genius in that he you know was able to kind of see what he saw and make the bet
00:32:22
he did um I also think it's incredibly unique the situation he is in where he
00:32:26
uh has so much control over his company is able to do such a big bet I mean honestly I was surprised to see
00:32:32
something like that so early um but I think that that's see a lot more of that
00:32:37
and that's going to spiral into price action and all kinds of interesting developments with it um as far as as far
00:32:43
as price goes uh um I think it is crazy as well to make any big price predictions but I think the cycle if we
00:32:49
uh it would be insane to me if we didn't see the six figure Mark uh finally happen and as far as risks go um I think
00:32:57
one of the biggest risks right now uh with um uh affecting price and things like that and and general uh adoption
00:33:04
and general uh sentiment about Bitcoin is uh all the ESG uh stuff I mean uh and I don't think I don't think a lot of
00:33:12
it's founded um the energy usage uh how its um effects on the environment things
00:33:17
like that I think a lot of it is unfounded um but uh I think that the perception of that of the general public
00:33:24
and big figures like Elon Musk who I personally believe aren't necessarily trying to you know do harm to bitcoin by
00:33:31
saying the things that they say online but are just kind of publicly learning as they go it's all this is all new to a
00:33:37
lot of people um and even if these people are super smart they're still figuring things out kind of in real time
00:33:42
like the rest of us um so I think that uh perspective of uh you know it's bad
00:33:47
for the environment these things having adoption based on that um which I believe again a lot of is unfounded I
00:33:53
can go into more detail about that but uh that is definitely you know the new Cycles love that stuff it's it's an easy
00:33:58
way to keep U price down and keep people scared about it or thinking about it or
00:34:02
thinking it's a bad thing uh when all the upside and all the benefits to society and the world um not just
00:34:08
financially but just for well-being uh are are kind of monumental um so any that's a few thoughts if David has
00:34:16
any I would say my my biggest concern is just regulatory risk um so you saw what
00:34:21
happened in China um if anybody's not aware you know they they they they put a
00:34:26
pretty heav Crackdown on the the miners in China the Bitcoin Miners and um they took a lot of them out so you know if
00:34:33
the United States is the biggest Bitcoin Market uh in the world if the United States government for for whatever
00:34:39
reason decided to make Bitcoin illegal uh we would see uh major um a major downturn in the price I mean I'm I'm
00:34:46
fairly confident you know what what I continue to hold till then you that that would be a really difficult question you
00:34:51
know I from a legal standpoint would I want to do something legal my my preference would be no so um
00:35:00
so I don't know but I think regulatory risk is is um extremely high I think it's uh becomes less and less as more
00:35:07
people and government and or and more organizations put on the balance sheet and it becomes more part of the economy
00:35:13
um but we're a little bit at a at a Tipping Point where I think if a government wanted to take a hard run it
00:35:18
really um trying to to to put the hammer down on it they they could one thing I was going to add is
00:35:27
that like not even about making it illegal but like for example I could totally see them for example like taxing
00:35:33
the hell out of it right in order to almost discourage it more than make it illegal is kind of what I could see
00:35:41
happen yeah as far as yeah I think I think there there's a lot of Merit to what David said I think that that there
00:35:48
are some risks with the uh regulatory stuff um I personally don't believe that
00:35:54
the US would do that I think that um that would be pretty dramatic and pretty crazy um but even if they did yeah I
00:36:01
agree it would be it would be bad in the short term uh for Bitcoin um I don't I I
00:36:07
kind of believe like the internet that Bitcoin is inevitable so I don't believe
00:36:13
longterm it will um stop this thing from happening you can't you know slow the
00:36:18
train down but I don't think you can stop it um but yeah no denying that if that were to happen there would be uh
00:36:24
that would be pretty ugly for a little while I think another risk worth mentioning it's it's maybe not a risk in
00:36:31
the same sense as some of these other factors but another risk worth mentioning as far as mass adoption would
00:36:37
be the security risk as far as you know people's individual Holdings it's very
00:36:42
easy to you know send Bitcoin to the wrong address or to you know if you're not Savvy give up your private keys and
00:36:51
I think that's a risk that will hold a lot of people back from adopting it you
00:36:57
know at least in its current form where you know you you you're so very aware
00:37:01
that you're using Bitcoin eventually when when that's not the case um obviously this won't be as big of an
00:37:07
issue but I think right now a major issue is still that you know it's very it it's finicky in a way that Fiat money
00:37:19
isn't one thing that Andy just mentioned was kind of thinking about the long term
00:37:25
looking out projecting to the long term and we did have a written question come in from uh Financial Freedom page who
00:37:33
asked are you guys invested into Bitcoin and are you holding for the long term I've been thinking about getting into it
00:37:40
and I'm curious all of your guys thoughts thanks in advance so real quick I I can say that I'm invested about 1%
00:37:48
of my total portfolio into the Osprey Bitcoin fund or Osprey Bitcoin trust which I can buy buy it's a mutual fund
00:37:57
that I can buy through Fidelity and they hold nothing but Bitcoin so that's my
00:38:02
personal exposure but let's go around the room um Adam do you do you own any
00:38:07
Bitcoin yeah I hold a small amount it's probably about two% of my portfolio right now but uh I just been kind of
00:38:14
consistently buying little chunks gotcha okay okay Shadow how about you uh I own $20 worth of bitcoin yeah
00:38:26
got are you holding it for the long term or is it a short-term bet it is going to
00:38:31
the moon tomorrow my friends okay okay we we'll come back to you Shadow no I I
00:38:36
literally got it for a a joke with buddies I have no belief in it and you guys know my my thoughts on it and we
00:38:42
can discuss that later but yeah uh just is joke we'll come back around the horn
00:38:46
to you Shadow I know you have a question pent up for us um Brandon do you have any Bitcoin no I'm slowly working to 1%
00:38:54
um of ethereum but I don't hold any Bitcoin right now gotcha okay Roger yeah I got about um close to 1%
00:39:05
it's it's been pretty volatile right so kind of depending on what day you catch
00:39:08
me I'll have 1% of it yeah say I know what you're saying same here and then
00:39:14
Dave and Andy I mean I know you guys probably have a little more than us if you don't mind sharing I mean how much
00:39:20
Bitcoin do you guys have uh it's a oh I'll just say my co my total crypto because I have exposure to
00:39:27
stuff too it's about probably about 15% of my portfolio Okay okay Andy uh and I'll be the crazy guy here
00:39:35
I'll be that guy uh 35ish percent of uh our net worth is uh crypto with 80% of
00:39:44
that being uh Bitcoin and if you uh hop on Twitter and read some of my threads and stuff you'll see that uh our net
00:39:52
worth is roughly 1.2 million so you can do the math figure out out how much I have yep yep I mean I will say this Andy
00:40:01
a wise person once told me if you have the conviction and you have the belief behind it it's not so much crazy anymore
00:40:09
because if if things hit the fan you're still going to have your belief in it
00:40:13
and having talked to you extensively on this topic and and heard your thoughts and I understand exactly where you're
00:40:20
coming from I don't find it crazy because I know if if something hit the fan with the market like it kind of did
00:40:26
in the last few weeks you're still in it for the long haul and I think that's
00:40:30
really important for people listening in to understand is how Andy has done enough research to really believe and
00:40:37
have strong conviction for the long run and these price drops from 60k to 30k aren't really pushing him off his
00:40:46
predetermined path over the next few decades is that fair to say Andy yeah and I'll say uh two additional thoughts
00:40:53
on that one I don't think I'm crazy I'm very comfortable with my allocation uh
00:40:58
but I'm I'm fine with being labeled that by a lot of people um and two and I know
00:41:04
that uh and I know that David would also probably agree with me on this uh yeah going from 60 our our top of 64 five or
00:41:13
whatever it was and going down to you know just under 30 recently it honestly I just just does not phase me um and I
00:41:21
think if if you uh if your stomach is churning when these these moves happen because they are dramatic uh then I
00:41:29
always tell people that either you're Overexposed and maybe you should reassess how much you have uh into it um
00:41:35
or you just don't really understand what you bought you bought something because
00:41:38
everybody else was buying it and so you really need to just learn more about it uh and understand what you own and why
00:41:45
and why you would want to own it and then the third thing is you probably need more time in the market um I've
00:41:49
been I've had significant Bitcoin um exposure for the past four years um and
00:41:57
uh in that time I've watched uh It Go from $20,000 to um to the mid 3000 range
00:42:04
up to 65,000 uh recently um and so it's kind of all par for the course at this
00:42:09
point uh but yeah that's just uh that's just kind of how it goes yeah really well said Andy really
00:42:16
well said uh a quick follow-up question before we get to Shadow the follow-up question was what was the ticker for the
00:42:22
fund that I was using so it's the Osprey Bitcoin Trust it's obtc Oscar Bravo Tango Charlie and that
00:42:31
and that's through Fidelity I'm not sure if it's offered on other platforms but
00:42:35
it's through Fidelity um but Shadow why don't you ask a couple of your questions
00:42:39
that you had pent up for us yeah so I had a question slide in my DM and I was unable to answer it myself so I'm going
00:42:45
to pass it to you Pros uh someone mentioned that they remember um I think it was it Ross ol's uh Silk Road that a
00:42:54
lot of times Bitcoin was mentioned there so is there an an anonymous Factor associated with Bitcoin purchases or
00:43:03
not so everything um so it's it's pseudo Anonymous uh you unless you disclose
00:43:11
what your Bitcoin account is your account your um your Bitcoin address um no one knows which one is associated
00:43:19
with you or which one you own however all the Bitcoin movement on the network is completely public so if you uh
00:43:26
decided you were going to get yourself some illicit materials uh and you sent C you know
00:43:32
couple hundred bucks or a thousand bucks or something uh over the network to pay
00:43:36
for that um it is completely um visible to everybody watching the network to see
00:43:40
that thousand move now again they don't know who's sending it or where like that
00:43:45
uh but the way there's lots of um kind of chain analysis companies out there
00:43:50
and they watch patterns and what people say publicly and what is disclosed in uh
00:43:54
the accounts they have and things like that and with enough sleuthing you can figure out um who owns what addresses
00:44:01
and who H you know where the Bitcoin that they have is and things like that also worth mentioning um I remember
00:44:09
several years ago you could buy Bitcoin semi anonymously like fairly anonymously but there are a lot of know
00:44:17
your customer um procedures in place now so whenever you convert your dollars to
00:44:23
crypto they probably will be a trace and from there you know if you were ever subpoena or something or if the exchange
00:44:31
was ever subpoena or something like that it wouldn't be difficult to figure out
00:44:35
from a legal standpoint um you know who owned which addresses I think the bad guys are
00:44:43
always going to be able to figure out you know uh ways around stuff that there is ways you can really protect yourself
00:44:50
and get around stuff um it's possible out there but I mean let let's be frankly honest I mean I think a lot of
00:44:57
the the fud that you'll hear out there is people buy use Bitcoin to buy a listed stuff and they know about s Silk
00:45:03
Road and all that kind of stuff and Andy laid out this pseudo Anonymous um you know you know case really well like what
00:45:11
that is but lots of money gets dirty money gets funneled through the traditional Financial system all the
00:45:18
time that's like 99% of all the bad money so I mean I think it's just I mean does it happen on
00:45:25
bitcoin absolutely but you know Banks big Banks get popped all the time for doing bad stuff and it's probably the
00:45:32
bank that you use is probably gotten popped for doing it too so it just I I I just think that's I think that's where
00:45:39
that kind of question ends up going like logically and I get it but I it's just
00:45:45
really a a poor realization of the whole financial picture and what's going on so
00:45:49
Andy if you were buying a powdery substance would you use cash or Bitcoin uh depends on where I sourced
00:45:57
either the cash or the Bitcoin to what Brandon said by the way there are still places where you can buy
00:46:06
Bitcoin um privately um but they are not userfriendly um and they are not and you
00:46:13
do pay fairly exorbitant fees and and um you definitely pay above market rate to
00:46:19
enjoy that privacy and also there are ways to privately send and receive Bitcoin um and that's a whole another
00:46:27
deep dig into thing in something called coin join um but there are ways to totally be off the grid with Bitcoin um
00:46:35
but that all takes a lot more work and that is definitely not becoming the mainstream yeah sha Shadow real quick I
00:46:43
mean I buy powdery stuff every week uh at the grocery store using a credit card that's just me personally but I know you
00:46:53
know I don't know if that helps your question or not yeah I was wanting to bake so powder
00:46:58
sugar was was definitely on the list I appreciate that I don't know if they have credit cards down there but that's
00:47:02
what I use it's just me um Adam I know Adam had a question pent up for us I want to pass the mic over to Adam and
00:47:09
then I think Aman I know we've got you we see a question coming in from you and
00:47:13
Stephen we see one from you as well so Adam first and we'll go from there so my question for Andy and Dave
00:47:21
would be where do you guys kind of see like companies accepting Bitcoin is it going to be something that kind of just
00:47:26
gradually grows or um something that kind of is like we see a period where there's kind of an overnight shift type
00:47:32
thing I know Tesla was taking it for a little bit I believe they aren't anymore
00:47:37
but my curiosity is just the currency usage like somebody using that grocery store something along those
00:47:45
lines so I I think we are still really early with the currency uh aspect of it um I think that's going to we're we
00:47:53
still need a lot more um uh kind of price Discovery and um more adoption with companies institutions and stuff
00:48:00
like that before we get really into that but I again I think that's going to be
00:48:06
um the uh the technology they're built on top of uh Bitcoin um like the lightning Network and right now there's
00:48:12
some amazing companies like um like strike is a great company if you want to look into that's a payments company and
00:48:18
they're building um uh you know personto person uh payment uh Network on top of
00:48:25
Bitcoin using lightning Network and it's instantaneous uh it's um the the model
00:48:30
they're doing I believe is completely fee-free um and it's it's pretty amazing
00:48:35
and I think that when what we're going to see is I don't think it's going to be
00:48:38
overnight I think it's be gradual but once we see that kind of uh terminal uh
00:48:42
velocity critical mass kind of moment pushing uh Bitcoin over the top and then little by little companies will start
00:48:49
start U adopting it uh accepting it as pay uh with payments it's going to be
00:48:55
through through Technologies like that where there's going to be some app or
00:48:58
some uh slick interface uh and uh Bitcoin is going to be the back end but you're largely unaware that you're using
00:49:05
it to transact um uh to uh to do that kind of person to person or company to company or P or purchase um uh product
00:49:14
um transaction yeah I think it's I think we're still ways away you know um and I
00:49:21
think right now I mean there it'll be really interesting to see what happens
00:49:24
with the elav you know they just they just made a legal tender down there you know so what will that adoption look
00:49:30
like down there the the the government seems to be pretty um pretty bent on uh really trying to make it happen so
00:49:37
that's really interesting there's like a um so but I think right now too like
00:49:42
every time so let's say you bought Bitcoin you know and you're early like
00:49:46
like Andy or some of the other people that were listening you got you bought it around 3,000 well it's 30,000 now if
00:49:51
you spend that money you're going to have a taxable event at that point you know so are are you going to want to
00:49:57
incur that you know or are you going to use the money that you have in your account so I think to Andy's point so
00:50:02
this is like a really stable thing it doesn't really make sense and it's just
00:50:07
unless laws continue to change it's it could be just expensive way to transactions from a tax standpoint
00:50:14
too so are you guys saying that you're going to see this end up uh 20 years from now just swiping like a credit card
00:50:20
at the local grocery and walking out 100% I've got a question about that Andy I do
00:50:30
I really do I hope we have time for it but I do want to have our listeners have some questions first the first one is a
00:50:36
question in passing and it made me laugh out loud so this is from Clint this is uh at Clint Robert M who asked why do
00:50:44
only three of us in the chat have laser eyes so Finance 99 I see you Clint and then a hipster Finance you guys have
00:50:50
laser eyes the question is Andy and uncommon yield where are your laser eyes right now
00:50:58
now laser eyes represent I I think I think Andy's are covered up by his cool shades so yeah
00:51:05
they're back there you just can't see that's fair that's fair that's a great
00:51:09
question um Roger did we want to try to pass the microphone over to Aman for his
00:51:15
question yeah let's do it and Aman I'm sorry is if it's pronounced differently
00:51:19
Aman please please correct me hey guys uh my name is Aman Singh and I have a channel called crush the wealth
00:51:31
Gap I wanted to um ask a question and and this is kind of how I'm thinking about U uh technology and kind of
00:51:39
Bitcoin and the overall trend um and so I kind not dive so much into like the details of things and sure I kind of shy
00:51:50
away from tiny small detail like daily minute by minute those kind of things things I'm assuming to 5 year 10 year 20
00:51:58
year 30 year time frames so as a macro Trend technology is a huge Trend that we our species entirely would be moving in
00:52:08
the this Century in technology like we will have better technology 50 years right all of us would say that like
00:52:15
anybody not saying that would probably be a doomsday person think have some kind of nuclear war and then we'll go
00:52:20
back to Sticks and Stones so there's ways ofing certain civilizations by the
00:52:25
amount of energy they're able to use right so there's a type civilization
00:52:29
that can use planetary energy to do whatever it needs to do I believe internet is one of those Technologies is
00:52:36
using energy from the world to provide all services all over the world internet native currency called Bitcoin has
00:52:47
emerged with 1% or less ownership in the world right so when I thought this a little bit and I realized and I was a I
00:52:57
thought Bitcoin was a joke from 2014 and um when I when I kind of thought about this and I kind of said
00:53:05
okay well is this something that's gonna be here to for term right um and the yeah go ahead no no I mean I follow
00:53:17
what you're saying and it is you're making good points I'm just what what
00:53:21
what's your question for us oh well my question is other the people's think of Bitcoin in the where
00:53:30
it's something that is to be looked at as a well it's gone up you know 50 you
00:53:36
know th% the last 10 years or whatnot or is it that or are are you guys thinking
00:53:41
about it that in th those terms that these this thing is going up and you should P of it and maybe speculate in it
00:53:47
or do you see it as a macro Trend like as if you're owning a piece of the internet back in 1990s because that's
00:53:55
how I see it that that is a great question that is a great question so you see it as owning
00:54:01
a piece of the future essentially owning a piece of a big macro Trend a shift in
00:54:06
society Andy how do you see it it's like buying Manhattan real estate in the
00:54:14
1800s exactly it's even bigger than that apparently yeah I mean per I'm not I'm
00:54:22
not personally that optimistic like I own 1% of my portfolio is in Bitcoin I'm
00:54:27
not necessarily that optimistic about it as you guys are but I do see it as owning um I'm trying to think of a good
00:54:35
analogy here but it's like owning owning a rubber Factory before cars where it's
00:54:41
like okay it's gonna be important I'm I'm not sure it's it's uh stitched into
00:54:48
the fabric of the future in the way that maybe you know maybe Aman Amon and Andy
00:54:54
think but but it's possible it is possible so I mean I do I do enjoy hearing your guys enthusiasm for it and
00:55:01
it certainly has rubbed off on me what do some of other speakers think about owning Bitcoin right now so I used to
00:55:08
have um I like the vast majority of my portfolio used to be in Bitcoin when I was like 20 um and I found that it was
00:55:17
really fun to have a piece of this thing because there's a huge culture around it
00:55:22
um you know I think there's something to be said and I understand the desire to
00:55:27
you know be part of it whether or not you really think it's going to be huge
00:55:34
in 20 years I think there's something to be said because I do think blockchain
00:55:38
technology will be huge and so there is something to be said for having a piece of that now and in its current iteration
00:55:46
I think just from an an enjoyment standpoint and I want to jump on that too I think um I I hear a lot of people
00:55:58
who will say basically what Brandon just said which is you know a big on blockchain technology um less so on
00:56:06
bitcoin and I think blockchain is amazing technology um but I think it's probably incredibly overhyped um and
00:56:15
doesn't have nearly the use case that everyone thinks it does I think most of
00:56:19
the use cases for many of the utility tokens and other crypto currencies out there uh would be better utilized not on
00:56:26
a decentralized uh Ledger but on a centralized well-built uh database um I think that that aspect of it is wholly
00:56:36
overrated um but I think Bitcoin as a currency it is a perfect use of that technology and given uh its current
00:56:44
status I think that it will be one of the defining uses of that of that technology um and Jesse you need more
00:56:51
than a 1% U allocation so guys I'd love to jump in here so as somebody who is completely
00:56:59
bearish on the topic I own over a million dollar in real estate we all know this 22 doors I own something I can
00:57:07
touch and if we're using Bitcoin as a currency I don't see there being an
00:57:13
argument to where you can compare them equally but if we're talking about holding them in a portfolio like an
00:57:19
investment or an asset then you should be able to compare them so how can you sell to Me Andy or anyone else that
00:57:29
owning an imaginary asset is as important or more important than owning real estate which
00:57:37
is also a finite asset so I'll briefly jump over to the the B side and say like
00:57:45
well then you could make the same argument for stocks right like and I know people who make that argument they
00:57:49
don't want to own stocks because they'd rather own real estate that they can
00:57:52
touch but stock is owning a part of an actual company so it's still a real asset there in the grand scheme of
00:58:02
things Fair Point yeah yeah but it's it's it's an imaginary piece of of a real thing and
00:58:10
the real thing itself is a bunch of people making up ideas and selling it to the world so it's just as made up really
00:58:17
it's just got people behind it directly uh working on it where you can see their
00:58:21
faces and stuff whereas Bitcoin has people working on it too you just don't know who all of them are uh but as far
00:58:26
as the whole imaginary thing whatever I mean it's like it's like a website you
00:58:30
know it's out there you can't touch it but we see where the internet has gone
00:58:34
uh the world's going digital um we live in an internet in an international and
00:58:38
internet Society now so that's only going to be exacerbated going forward um
00:58:44
and also when it comes to like the argument of uh having some exposure to it uh I like to think about it like this
00:58:51
if you took 1% of your net worth or even half of %c but I mean what you know 1% let's just use that um and bought some
00:58:58
Bitcoin what's your downside you you it goes to zero and some hypothetical situation and you're uh lose 1% of your
00:59:06
net worth to that I mean that can happen with Market fluctuations on anything you
00:59:09
own but the upside is so immense I mean we're talking about if this thing eats
00:59:13
uh the market caps of things like gold well then one Bitcoin is worth $500,000 per coin the upside is immense and it's
00:59:20
it's so unbelievable um the the upside that I just can't or having uh some
00:59:26
exposure to it and I think anybody who is a reasonable investor wants to grow their money that upside to downside um
00:59:32
equation in your head has got to be uh very hard to ignore so if I'm hearing
00:59:38
you you're saying it as an asset you would still recommend it no matter what
00:59:43
just as a coin flip in a small amount of your overall portfolio is that correct oh definitely I mean I can make
00:59:50
Arguments for everything beyond that but yeah just at its at at its core sure definitely
00:59:55
appreciate it yeah real quick everybody I mean for people listening in I think we can't thank you enough for joining us
01:00:03
for this hour and because we still have a few questions in the queue and this conversation has been so Lively we're
01:00:09
gonna stick around for a few more minutes because we're all enjoying it I hope you're enjoying it too if you are
01:00:14
enjoying it please feel please give us a follow you know especially you know Andy
01:00:18
and and Dave for leading this conversation but as wise and Andy as Dave are about Bitcoin the other folks
01:00:24
here who have been been speaking today have their own sets of knowledge that can improve and have improved my life
01:00:30
and I think can improve your lives too um so thank you for sticking around we're g to be here for a few more
01:00:36
minutes Clint I just saw your DM come in Clint to be honest with you you're like
01:00:40
fourth or fifth in line I'm not sure we're going to get to you so I might
01:00:43
suggest feel free to reach out to Shadow directly I think Shadow Clint had some ideas for you um Nyan Nan I think we're
01:00:51
going to give you the microphone next but before we do we had a question that's been waiting in DMS for a while
01:00:57
and that question is how can we use Bitcoin as a medium of exchange if governments especially big governments
01:01:05
are not yet accepting it so even if a poor country a poorer country like say El Salvador starts accepting it will it
01:01:13
really have a big effect until the bigger countries give Bitcoin the green light any thoughts on that macro
01:01:21
question Dave or Andy uh sorry mine cut out for a split second can you repeat the second or I didn't
01:01:32
hear the second half of that I'm sorry so the question in short is Will Bitcoin
01:01:38
have a longterm store long-term value until big countries start to adopt it really I think what it means is until
01:01:46
they accept it as a way of paying taxes will it have more upside until then no will it have a future until then
01:01:57
you know can we can we depend on a can a poor country adopt Bitcoin or does it have to wait until
01:02:04
really a bigger country does until the world economy does from a from a bigger country I mean I think we're seeing that
01:02:10
play out in real time right now I think that that I think that this small country adoption is uh part of that kind
01:02:17
of uh momentum shift uh when someone like when some place like El Salvador says hey this is actually a
01:02:24
uh this is a currency uh this um we are we are recognizing it as such well then a bunch of other countries don't have to
01:02:31
decide how they're going to interpret that um and then yeah I me I think real
01:02:35
momentum will come when some large comp uh countries uh decide to give it that same uh credibility um but uh no I think
01:02:44
it's inevitable either way okay thanks Andy thanks Andy I followed that um Roger do we want to
01:02:52
hand the microphone over to n I apologize if I'm mispronouncing that name Nan but yep I just did yep
01:03:06
perfect hey guys can you hear me yes so yeah so I'm a big believer in crypto uh
01:03:14
in general and uh I'm an investor in Bitcoin and etherium so my question is very straightforward I just want to know
01:03:22
how Andy are uh The Uncommon yield uh you guys decide if you have let's say 10
01:03:30
20 $30,000 lying around on your checking account and you want to put it on bitcoin how do you decide uh like what
01:03:38
price is good for buying by the dip yeah no I just dollar cost average you know I I've been I've
01:03:48
been um I mean that's you can there's a lot of really cool calculators out there
01:03:53
if you have a big chunk of money out there it's really the the the market is
01:03:58
so volatile if you followed it for any period of time the price swings are massive um just dollar cost average I
01:04:06
mean that that that's the best buying strategy for really any accumulating any
01:04:09
asset you that you want to buy so don't buy the top don't try to buy the top or
01:04:14
sell the top don't try to buy the bottom you know just just just get in a littleit over time got it hey nian hey
01:04:21
good to hear from you my friend uh so uh yeah uh and actually Jesse on his Blog has a great blog post on um Bitcoin
01:04:31
buying um and based on that I would say two things one uh just what David said uh dollar cost averaging that's what I
01:04:39
do um and two if you just have a big chunk of money uh there's two ways to handle it one just go ahead and buy and
01:04:46
just get in the market as soon as possible and just wait it out long term uh that's going to be a positive over
01:04:51
the Long Haul uh or two if that gives you any worry well then just resort to answer number one which is dollar cost
01:04:59
average and just sit that to the account span that out over the period of time which it'll last and then just
01:05:05
automatically buy based on that that makes sense thanks a lot guys yeah thank you for the question I
01:05:12
actually I just tweeted at you the article that Andy was speaking about so give it a read and and let me know if
01:05:18
you have any questions on that in short dollar cost averaging over the history of bitco coin has proven to be a better
01:05:26
strategy than waiting for dips because essentially Bitcoin has been running away from us and sometimes you'll be
01:05:32
waiting for a dip and the dip never really comes or it comes too late and you would have been better off buying
01:05:37
the entire time um Roger I think you had mentioned Roger we have a question another question from Stephen is that
01:05:44
right that's correct hey um quick question for uh David and uncommon yield um so I got this uh email
01:06:08
from uh one of the exchanges uh and they said hey they a reputable one um deposit
01:06:16
your uh Bitcoin in here and we'll give you 7% yield over uh 90 days and I know
01:06:23
uh you're into this um The Lending and the yield with crypto whether it's
01:06:29
ethereum or Bitcoin or uh and such so I'm just I'm curious to Inner workings
01:06:34
of how they can uh pay me back at 7% annual on bitcoin given deflationary currency and such a high yield when
01:06:44
interest rates are so low right now so I'm just curious just is somebody paying
01:06:49
them a higher percentage in Bitcoin yeah no that's that's a great aay that
01:06:57
money yeah that's a great question Stephen so this is essentially what they're doing is uh you look at fully
01:07:03
paid Securities lending that's essentially what they're doing except that's what exchanges do um in the stock
01:07:11
market so that's why so many exchanges can offer free um you know free free trades is they do fully paid security
01:07:20
lending on the back end you never see it they lend out your your stock all the time make money off of it and uh you
01:07:27
never see a penny so if that's the case I would encourage you to find an exchange that um or a brokerage house
01:07:34
even for stocks that that offer you that that opportunity to let you participate
01:07:38
in that yield but there they're doing the same thing so companies like blockfi
01:07:43
or Celsius or um nexo lend the Voyager there's there's a bunch of them um what what
01:07:51
they do is they Bitcoin is a really thinly traded um asset so this is going to get kind of technical so if you you
01:07:59
all aren't fing I apologize this is going to be kind of like the quick and dirty since we're close on time but this
01:08:05
the float is really small so that's like the amount of um Bitcoin that's getting
01:08:10
traded on these exchanges so if you're an exchange if you're coinbase or
01:08:14
binance or whatever you need enough liquidity in those markets for folks to be able to buy and sell if they you
01:08:21
don't have enough liquidity for folks to be able to buy and sell on your exchange
01:08:25
you're not going to be able to make money one and then two they're going to
01:08:29
get shut down like there's like the infamous like coinbase outages that happen whenever bitcoin's like really
01:08:34
running or really crashing and it magically just shuts down right so these exchanges pay an exorbitantly high fee
01:08:43
to uh plac places like block F like genesis capital is another really big one to um to to be able to float enough
01:08:52
Bitcoin to have liquidity in their exchanges if if you look at any of the D5 protocols that are out there too uh
01:08:58
the yields are super high I mean there's like 20% 80% 100% in some of these liquidity pools and look I be very
01:09:05
careful they're super risky but the reason why they're so high is because
01:09:10
there's such a great demand for liquidity in that market so one of the things that we that we're seeing
01:09:17
happening in the these lending markets as block flight has had their rates come out and they lowered and that's because
01:09:23
because one there's more and more people wanting to lend their Bitcoin there's
01:09:27
more competition coming out um to lend Bitcoin to these big entities and then three like the price is going down so
01:09:36
people wanting to to borrow the volumes a lot less so there's less demand so
01:09:40
that's kind of the quick and dirty answer but if you um search for fully paid Securities lending you can get a
01:09:46
pretty good feel for what exactly like is happening from a mechanic standpoint yeah awesome yeah you you kind of read
01:09:58
the the worry or concern there right where it's like it's really high yield
01:10:03
and almost makes it kind of sound like a scam sort of thing and um I mean so far
01:10:09
so good you know everyone's tweeting and talking about uh the different high
01:10:15
yields on usct etc etc we don't you know you know what I'm talking about so I'm just you
01:10:22
know somebody has to pay the bill I'm just concerned just counterparty risk on
01:10:26
that and just somebody's like oh I I can't make the payment you know not enough got mind or
01:10:33
whatever I can't I can't pay that and then just contagion hits and the whole
01:10:37
thing starts to escalate in Domino and um that sort of thing and then so yeah yeah I I'll try to post a few um
01:10:46
podcasts after this they kind of go through some of at least the the business model for blockfi like I I've
01:10:51
used them a lot in the past and I dove down pretty deep so um it it'll help make a little bit more sense um I
01:11:00
definitely understand how the people can be reticent you know and and say the yields that that are so high but they do
01:11:07
make sense when you kind of start to understand the market you understand how thinly traded it is and you kind of pair
01:11:13
that with like fully paid Securities lending that is like a normal Market making activity that happens all the
01:11:19
time in the stock market David would you say that the those services that the yield that they
01:11:27
pay is an uncommon yield it is 100% an uncommon Y and Andy Andy we're gonna kick you off get
01:11:36
out get out Andy I accept this um Dave I'd certainly be interested in hearing you talk about the business
01:11:44
model of blockfi because there a great question Stephen I've had the same questions almost like where are these
01:11:50
yields coming from exactly and and when when I don't have the answer because I I
01:11:56
don't have a good answer and I haven't committed the time to finding the answer
01:11:59
part of my brain says boy it sure sounds like a pyramid scheme so I would love to
01:12:05
hear I would love to hear your thoughts and and on explaining why it's not that
01:12:09
um I would certainly benefit from that yeah I mean maybe we cue that up for a podcast in the future and you asking
01:12:15
pepper me with questions and figure out where what I don't know I think that'd
01:12:18
be fun very cool very cool I mean let let me let me put this flag in the ground like I still have a few questions
01:12:26
lined up but it's going to take us till like 11:30 my time to get there so I
01:12:31
almost feel like we should save them for another round but I want to go around the room I mean any questions right now
01:12:36
while we're still going from from anybody else on the on the speaker microphone he if if if I could I want to
01:12:49
know Andy do you think your experience with uh with pirate you know what I'm
01:12:54
talking about the crash in the crypto winter do you think there's a possibility of that happening
01:13:01
again uh so two things there you said you talk you were asking about uh pirate again and you're asking um no more just
01:13:11
like well I find your story with pirates very uh unique inspiring and really Keen
01:13:18
business sense on that I know it's a separate topic maybe for a different session and stuff but I think there's a
01:13:22
lot of princip and a lot to learn with what you did there with that but just I guess just do you see I know you
01:13:29
mentioned earlier bull run we're not out of this but do you see any kind of sharp
01:13:33
downturn in the medium term in order to get there eventually uh so in the near term no I think we still I I think we're
01:13:42
gonna have have a few more Corrections certainly uh but no nothing like what we uh we I don't think we're quite ready to
01:13:49
go into another bare Market but I do believe absolutely yes we're gonna have
01:13:52
another uh down Market I I don't know if it's going to play out like the last one did
01:13:57
or not um but I I'm convinced we will see that again it seems uh crypto seems
01:14:02
to just love the cycle and hasn't given it up yet at least uh at this at this
01:14:06
stage of the game um and based on the the last one I think that um if and when that happens again there's going to be
01:14:13
tons of wonderful opportunity if you are uh if you have conviction if you're able
01:14:19
to if you have if you have any money left over uh if you're able to um you know pick up some stuff at an extreme
01:14:26
discount and uh and wait out for the you know several years you have to wait until the next uh bull cycle after that
01:14:34
um and the thing that uh Stephen is asking me about specifically is I did a thread on a uh an altcoin called pirate
01:14:41
chain and essentially during the last crypto um bare Market the crypto winter uh it's one of the many plays that I
01:14:49
made where I spent very minimal dollars buying a m a an Asic Miner a mining rig uh to mine
01:14:58
it because I saw potential in it and I so basically I invested a little bit of money in this machine I invested money
01:15:03
every month for a uh few years in electricity and I mined a big stack and I spent maybe $1,200 on that investment
01:15:12
and at pirate Chain's Peak that investment was worth like1 150 to $185,000 I exited some of that position
01:15:20
and held some of it um but that is one of many decisions I made over the during the last bare Market with mining
01:15:28
investing in coins I saw potential in all with the end goal end result of just uh increasing my uh my Bitcoin
01:15:38
stack that's really cool Andy I think you're one of the few people who I know
01:15:43
personally who runs a mining rig I think it's really cool to hear about that
01:15:48
because it really is almost like kind of like printing your own money at least in
01:15:52
my head that's how I think of of it yes I have a miniaturized Federal Reserve in
01:15:57
my house it's wonderful decentralized reserve and one thing one little thing I wanted to add
01:16:04
to Stephen's question I'm not sure if it a 100 per answers it but I think it
01:16:07
comes close I own a lot of stocks and I know in the back of my mind I am very well prepared for the fact that stocks
01:16:16
could drop 30 or 40 or 50% in the near term it could happen we saw them drop 35 % last year you know and I wasn't too
01:16:26
bothered by it I knew it might happen and when it happened I wasn't too bothered by it with Bitcoin that
01:16:31
percentage might be 50 or 60 or 70% and I think if someone has done their research and feels confident in the long
01:16:39
run like the way Andy does and like the way Dave does and to be honest with you like the way I do with my 1% I'm not too
01:16:46
bothered by the fact that it might drop 50% in a short time span because I'm
01:16:50
holding for the long term now I don't have the confidence to hold quite as big
01:16:55
a percentage of my portfolio as Dave or Andy but that mindset in the back of my mind about how much it could drop if
01:17:01
things went poorly does help me maintain my faith for the long term similarly to
01:17:07
the way it does for stocks just my two cents yeah I think that's a really good
01:17:18
point you uh you brought that up earlier too just the the conviction and you know
01:17:21
Shadow rents has that with his rental properties he's not going to deviate you're not going to shake him off that
01:17:27
just like um Andy with Bitcoin um and I I think that's that's a really important lesson I think for for
01:17:35
all of us right just to have that asset have that conviction uh for a particular asset and
01:17:40
see it through and I think uh you'll come out a winner at the end right right I think that's the whole
01:17:46
that's the whole point around portfolio management and why for many people it
01:17:50
makes sense to have a diverse portfolio because you say if if a certain asset is
01:17:54
so risky that its potential downside is going to turn me off well that means you
01:17:59
should have a smaller allocation of that asset you know if if Bitcoin turns you off with its downside you should have a
01:18:05
smaller allocation if if government bonds make you feel really good because you know there's very little downside
01:18:12
maybe you have a larger allocation than most I know Dave is probably cringing but at the end of the day it's personal
01:18:18
it's it's a risk allocation mindset and everyone's going to be a little
01:18:22
different and I commend Andy and Dave for understanding the math and understanding the way it could drop the
01:18:29
volatility and that drives them to say I'm accepting the risks and in the long
01:18:33
run it it should pay off I I really hope it does pay off for them um with that I'm gonna go around
01:18:44
the room one more time for any final thoughts any final thoughts from our speaker so so Shadow how you doing man
01:18:51
I'm good feel I learned a lot I appreciate uh Andy and and Rogers and all you guys time for uh enlightening me
01:18:57
on the subject I'm still think uh still thinking that I'm not touching it you
01:19:01
guys are crazy that I own properties that I can touch and hold and and burn down if I want and stuff I own's real
01:19:08
and you guys are crazy but I appreciate you all's views Roger how about you this has been great I mean it's I've
01:19:17
learned a lot from you guys as well um for me I'm kind of um it's the volatility is big for me
01:19:24
that I think that's why I hold smaller positions of it I I believe that there
01:19:27
is a future and I think there's you have to be kind of open-minded and that's why
01:19:32
I do have a 1% allocation on it and maybe that'll grow in the future but for
01:19:36
right now that's pretty much what I'm comfortable with just based on the
01:19:40
volatil the volatility that it has yep makes sense Adam what are your thoughts I was just gonna kind of piggy
01:19:49
what Andy said it's you know I'm not a huge uh Bitcoin guy but I obviously like
01:19:54
I still have a little bit of it but I just think the risk to reward is kind of one of those things that you hold that
01:20:00
one or two% allocation of it and you know play the long-term game and hopefully ends out hopefully ends out on
01:20:07
the wrong side right side right right Brandon are you uh sticking the course with ethereum for
01:20:14
now yeah and I'm also disappointed nobody told me to have fun staying poor during this entire conversation but uh
01:20:21
no it was a good it was a good convers um I like that we were able to discuss both sides without anybody you know
01:20:28
going to nuts um I think everybody made very solid points so I really enjoyed it
01:20:34
we're still gonna be live for a couple minutes so Never Say Never that's true
01:20:40
Dave Dave why don't you go next uh you can have fun staying poor Brandon I's go
01:20:44
ahead and rip that Band-Aid off right now but uh no I think um you know I would just take some time if you're
01:20:51
interested in Bitcoin you you know read the Bitcoin white paper it's it's really
01:20:55
not that long um you know engage with people on Twitter I you to to Brandon's
01:21:00
point the Bitcoin Community can be really brutal uh and not fun uh there's a lot of people that are and they
01:21:07
they've built up a lot of calluses I think over the years with people attacking it and they just go ballistic
01:21:12
When anybody has a question even if it's a valid one um so you know just find the
01:21:17
folks that want to talk about it you know like like Andy and I talk about it we're not mean about it um you know find
01:21:23
the folks that you know are interested want to teach it want to learn and aren aren't mean about it and you know just
01:21:28
do a little bit of your own research thanks Dave I want to uh just give a big thanks to some faces in the
01:21:36
crowd who I see who are are familiar and even more faces in the crowd who I see who I don't know yet thank you guys for
01:21:42
calling in and listening to this for the past hour it means a ton to us but I want to give the last word to to Andy
01:21:50
Andy why don't you sign us off yeah thank you for everybody who has listened in who stuck around if you've
01:21:56
submitted questions or participated uh really I really appreciate it we all really appreciate it uh this is a ton of
01:22:03
fun to talk about this stuff it's obviously something uh some of us are very passionate about so it's always
01:22:08
exciting to chat with um everyone uh I will end with uh with this I think if there's anything in here that pequ your
01:22:15
C curiosity if um if if this got you if got if this got the mind kind of running
01:22:23
a little bit and thinking about Bitcoin and maybe you don't have an allocation
01:22:26
or maybe you have a very tiny one and you thinking about this whole maybe I should allocate a small percentage um uh
01:22:33
of my portfolio I just encourage you just there's so many resources out there
01:22:37
so many great podcasts books um Etc I'm sure many of us are happy to chat with
01:22:41
you too um reach out and do the research for yourself see if there's any personal
01:22:46
conviction there that you find for yourself um and then uh and then i' encourage you to to give it a shot um I
01:22:52
think I think what a lot of people are going to find is if they give 1% allocation um in their portfolio to
01:22:57
something like Bitcoin with such a symmetric um potential upside that uh in the upcoming years they're going to see
01:23:05
that 1% um of their portfolio so far outperform the rest that they're going to wonder why uh they shouldn't have
01:23:12
more of an allocation 5% 10% or whatever um I think the potential there is incredible um and I'm excited to be a
01:23:19
part of the the ride the journey and the community and uh excited to uh chat with
01:23:24
everybody here so thanks for taking the uh the time to do so excellent thank you Andy thank you
01:23:31
all all right everybody I think that's it have a great night see you fellas cheers guys thank
01:23:38
you thank you every see you have a great night [Laughter] [Music] [Laughter] [Music]
01:23:51
guys some might cost a little some might cost a lot but I'm the Million dooll
01:24:08
Man and you will be [Laughter] B h
