00:00:00
I was in a store and they were pushing on me. I'm like I'm not taking your shitty like buy now pay later thing. Like I don't need to and I'm not gonna.
00:00:14
Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Carara Swisser
00:00:19
and I'm Scott Galloway. Scott, how was your Thanksgiving? I saw a beautiful picture with you and your sons.
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Oh, was that nice? Uh yeah, it was uh you know the highlight of it was my my oldest brought two
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friends from boarding school home. Oh. And they say that from about British folk. Yeah. Both both British kids. And they
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say that the key indicator of your son's outcome is is uh his peer group from a
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certain point on. And it just made me feel so good about his prospects. These kids are just such
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good kids, you know? You want to say impressive kids and all that one's implying or got a interview at
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Cambridge, but they're both just like lovely, nice men. So, there wasn't any like rich kid loo,
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you know, British rich kid thing. Oh, they had to sneak out to go score ketamine, right? Of course.
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But they but other than that, um, and you know, and they yelled at the help. Oh, good.
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But other than that, they were really I'm I'm kidding about all of this. I understand. Uh really lovely young men
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and it made me feel much more I don't know safe and less worried about my stuff. Good. Good. And they had not done
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Thanksgiving, right? That's not a thing they do in the in the not a British thing. So they were excited to come home and
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it was Yeah, it was it was really nice. Um how was your Did you make them act out the pilgrim
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the ridiculous pilgrim stuff? We know me in in American, you know, history. I just am such a
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right I didn't know it was Thanksgiving till Wednesday night when my calendar the next day preparation do you you don't do any
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why would I comparative advantage what do you mean comparative daddy does one thing he pays the freaking bills daddy is the nuclear
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reactor powering this aircraft side dish I didn't do anything either what am I talking about don't describe Amanda as a side dish I
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mean she's good-looking but her her mom does it all she her mom and her dad Oh you had it at the in-laws
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yes we went up to Boston but first I got to see the boys and we had a lovely family dinner, the four kids. They look great.
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They look great. And I worked out with Alex and hung out with Louis and and stuff like that. And um and then we went
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up to Boston which was fun which the the the Gats has put on a good Thanksgiving I have to say. Very
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Amanda strikes me as someone who has well adjusted parents indeed. There were seven pies which was nice and and uh I got a special pumpkin
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pie cuz I like pumpkin and they never made it but they made me one which was very nice. I almost cried.
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Yeah, it was delicious. That's nice. That's nice. And what do you got going on this week? Um, oh, lots of things. Gosh, I've got
00:02:48
to do just a I'm going to do something interesting. There's this 100th anniversary of The New Yorker and I'm be
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interviewing uh I I like The New Yorker. Oh, God. You're not I'm staying at your place. By the way,
00:02:59
I wrote a critical review of my book. So, I am canceling the subscription documentary by I think it's Jud Appattow
00:03:06
did the documentary and it's on Netflix and they asked me to come and interview them at the event. So, I'm going to do that for my friend David Remnick. But I
00:03:12
love The New Yorker. I think it's done a great job over the many years. Still around. Oh my god. It's really successful
00:03:18
actually. It's one of those like Wired. Yes, it's doing just nest, right? Yes. But Kanye nest, not all of it is,
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but Wired's doing great. And uh New Yorker is doing great. And Vogue to an extent. They put out really good work, I
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have to say. Um and then what else am I doing? I'm just here. I don't have to travel, Scott, which except for that
00:03:36
just trip to New York is super easy. Uh, but I'm coming up and and coming back. But I'm here. I'm going to Christmas
00:03:42
parties. I'm like very excited to be home. What's the hottest invite in Christmas parties in DC?
00:03:48
Oh, I don't know. I don't We're going to friends. Oh, Matt Gates. I bet he throws a good party. I don't think he's still here. I think
00:03:54
he's trolling little girls down in Florida. I'm not a big party go, Scott. I told you I'm not very social. I like
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small gatherings. That's what I like. Anyway, Thanksgiving was great. I'm looking forward. My birthday's coming
00:04:05
up. Obviously, you preparing to buy me a present. That's very excited about that. Yeah. Um otherwise, I'm just uh here.
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I'm very excited to be in in Washington, but Thanksgiving was nice. It's a I like Thanksgiving. It's my I think it's one
00:04:17
of my favorite holidays. Anyway, um we have a lot to get to today. There's so much. Speaking of like the news didn't
00:04:23
faking stop all weekend. It was kind of crazy. Um and a lot of it really quite grotesque, including the the double
00:04:30
bombing of people. You know, you bomb someone and then you go rescue them after you bomb them. But we'll get to
00:04:35
that. We've got a lot to get to today, including uh tech stocks are still on this crazy roller coaster. We're going
00:04:40
to talk about consumer spending because it's something you've talked a lot about, but that those numbers are starting to come in. And then Trump's
00:04:47
AIS are David Saxs, uh reaping his White House benefits. Of course, he's losing his mind because it's a mild criticism
00:04:53
of his, you know, in you know, inbredadness. Uh but first, uh shoppers turned out in force, as we said, for
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Black Friday, spending both record-breaking amount both online and in stores. Uh online spending alone hit
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11 uh uh8 billion up about 9% from last year and overall sales were up around 4%
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which isn't enormous. A lot of the growth is just inflation though not people going wild with their wallets.
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People actually bought fewer things. Order volumes dropped 1% but prices jumped 7%. Another twist which Scott you
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talked about all the time. Higher income shoppers are spending like usual but middle and lower income families are
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pulling back. retailers are somewhat optimistic about the holiday season overall with sales expected to top a
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trillion dollars for the first time ever. Again, inflation. Um, you know, you talk about this if the if the rich
00:05:38
people pull back, that's a real problem. But obviously middle and lower income families are feeling the pinch from
00:05:44
inflation and so they're buying, as Trump said, you don't need so many dolls and apparently they are not buying so
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many dolls. Um, and then there's the tariffs, etc. talk about this about you know you ran a retail business uh an
00:05:57
online retail business what does this mean what what do you think is happening here
00:06:02
well there's a lot there that the reason why I mean in addition to the
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kind of moral problem or societal problem of having the top 10% responsible for 50% of consumer economy
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what that says about our economy is that it makes the economy more fragile because if 60 70 80%
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uh spend from a middle-ass household, probably closer to 90%, are things they can't adjust up or down. They're going
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to have to figure out a way either on credit or to get a second job to maintain to continue to pay to their
00:06:34
mortgage or for groceries. Whereas when when Oracle I mean Oracle's off I
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figure for what it's off like 24%. Uh it's down excuse me it's down 22% in the last 30 days. The markets are still
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rocky again as we tape the S&P 500, the NASDAQ down, all down. Palanteer was
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down 16% in November. Its worst month since August 2023. Nvidia ended November down 12%. Oracle fell 28% last month.
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Morgan sailing analysts are warning that Oracle's credit conditions could worsen next year, you think? So, put put that
00:07:07
all in there because that's the that's the the big spenders presumably, right? the consumer confidence for for the top
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10% is based on the most damaging metrics ever invented for Western society and that's the S&P and the
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NASDAQ cuz more indicative or fruitful metrics would be like self harm or
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suicide or body mass index or what Bhutan does a happiness index whatever it might be or divorce things that
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actually actually drive purpose and meaning and wealthy households will high
00:07:42
based on a number. They look at the value of their stock market portfolio and when it's really high they feel
00:07:48
comfortable going to Van Clee and Arpels and giving money away to nonprofits and spending money on nicer vacations
00:07:55
whatever it might be buying another car. And the thing about wealthy people that's makes this economy less uh more
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fragile or less robust is that if Palunteer goes down 80% which it easily
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could easily and if Oracle went down 60% C above easily could and Nvidia went
00:08:15
down 70% which it easily could what the top 10% are capable of doing which the
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bottom 90 are not is the top 10% on a dime could cut their discretionary
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spending by 70%. Right? Will they though? Will they feel not as jolly or what? You know, in terms
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Yeah, they you can you can correlate fractional jet ownership and inquiries
00:08:42
to the stock market. Yeah, I've done the analysis my speaking inbounds. Well, I track very closely, I
00:08:49
love data, the number of inbound inquiries I get for speaking gigs. I've
00:08:54
created I've tried to create artificial scarcity around my speaking. The sexist word in the English language is no. I
00:08:59
don't like to travel. So I charge crazy [ __ ] rates. That's my rate. Crazy
00:09:05
people when I go to speak for lesser amounts. Go ahead. When when I my rating, my price card is
00:09:11
crazy or free. and and I can correlate
00:09:16
the number of inquiries I get to the stock market because when Salesforce
00:09:22
when when I'm speaking at an investment bank's annual gathering, M&A is way up and all of a sudden these niche
00:09:29
investment banks are asking me to come speak. Why? Because they're making record fees. So when all of a sudden,
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and that's the dangerous thing about an economy relying on the top 10%. It's not only morally problematic, it makes it
00:09:42
very fragile because they can take spending down on a dime. And if you take the top 10% out,
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the economy is basically flat. And then if you add in inflation, you could make an argument that spending is down. Now,
00:09:53
in terms of attributes that I think are a little bit more interesting about or are interesting about this Black Friday
00:10:00
one, AI did play a role. kind of these AI tools and bots were responsible for
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um I think uh they think that about 10% or a 10% increase was due to AI tools
00:10:14
and that so instore sales were basically flat. They were just up 1%. Online was up 10%,
00:10:20
right? Um but also AIdriven traffic to US retail stores soared 800% or 9x. So AI
00:10:27
is starting to creep into retail. The stat that people aren't talking about that I think is really important and
00:10:33
quite frankly very upsetting and a negative forward-looking indicator is that uh buy now pay later usage
00:10:40
surged on Black Friday and it's up 9% overall with young people or everybody
00:10:46
young people 41% of shoppers aged 161 16 to 24 use buy now pay later
00:10:51
and millenn millennials get this increase their usage 87%
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compared to 2024 even 38% % of people making over 100k are now using
00:11:02
buy now pay later and yeah we hate those we hate by the way just so for listeners we hate buy now
00:11:07
pay later we think it's and you can't infantilize people they get to use their own credit you know people get to decide if they want to use
00:11:12
credit or not but the thing I hate about the positioning of these things is they somehow frame it as innovation and that
00:11:18
it's not actual debt it's it's a new culture young people don't want to get caught in a debt it's debt
00:11:24
it's you sir it's debt agreed and if you don't pay it back. I mean the
00:11:29
innovation is they take the initial vig the initial interest rate from the retailer because what happens is I was
00:11:37
on the board of Urban Outfitters and the initial buy now pay later guys came to us and said let us do this. We offer
00:11:43
people automatic credit. They're checking out and say would you like an additional $100 $200 in purchasing power
00:11:48
and someone's headed to go and they think yeah and they go back and they fill up their basket and we pay the
00:11:54
fees. Urban Outfitters pays a small portion of that incremental purchase back to the BM. It's a great business
00:11:59
model except all you're really doing is tapping into the urgency, the need for now and a lot of these kids end up a lot
00:12:07
of young people end up in debt. I don't know what to do about it because you can't infantilize young people and I need except that it makes it it's sort of
00:12:13
like the subprime mortgage. Of course, you can buy I I was seeing bits and pieces of that movie um that it was
00:12:19
based on um because I wanted to go back because of the the situation. the big short Michael Bur is in the news
00:12:25
obviously and I have to say like the people who are sell of course they can't afford it just load them up like I it's
00:12:31
not in infantilizing people to say you're not creditw worthy you're just not right and to give people sort of
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these long lead I don't know I think it's use I think it takes advantage of
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them and it makes it feel like it's free and therefore it it spurs spending like you said like go in and get more I I
00:12:50
just don't they can't pay it back and then we're stuck stuck in sort of this credit squeeze and then the retailers will be eventually or whoever is holding
00:12:56
these loans and it just go it just iterates through the system that that we're encouraging like ridiculous
00:13:02
spending well beyond people's ability to buy. I I was in a store and they were pushing on me. I'm like I'm not taking
00:13:08
your shitty like buy now pay later thing. Like I don't need to and I'm not going to. Um so let me let we're going
00:13:15
to move on to some another important story but what do you imagine is where spending is going to end up in December
00:13:20
down. What what does it depend on really briefly? Uh tell me where the market's going to
00:13:26
be in December. Okay. If even up to Christmas. Yeah, you're right. It'll it'll
00:13:31
the media is obsessed with the metrics around the market. And if the stock if stocks and AI stocks
00:13:38
hold on, I think you're going to see more spending. And also these this is why I was talking to a kid today. I was
00:13:44
negotiating a new job. This is why options and equity is where you want to negotiate around salary if you're
00:13:50
working for a big company because you're up against godlike technology to try and
00:13:56
sequester you from your relationships and take figure out the exact right offer at the exact right moment to take
00:14:02
every conceivable dollar and all your debt capacity from you. And I want to be clear up until the age of 35 or 40 I
00:14:09
spent everything that came through my hands. I just oh I I have a I could well
00:14:15
you know at the exact right moment oh just for $80 more you can upgrade to business class. Oh why not a pair of
00:14:21
Bomba socks with these new pair on I mean it is just imp it is so difficult to have the discipline to save money. So
00:14:27
what you want is you want for savings and equity or some to a certain extent
00:14:33
house the reason why housing has built so much wealth is not because it's outperformed other asset classes but because it's it's a form of forced
00:14:39
savings. Yeah, that's why 401k tax advantage vehicles. But basically, if people feel if the
00:14:46
stock market keeps going up or it recovers and especially with AI stocks,
00:14:52
that's what and then AI will come in with great offers and I think it's going
00:14:57
to be an AI Christmas. Everyone's going to be talking about how much traffic AI drove. Yeah. And I think you're going to see luxury
00:15:03
brands continue to do better and better. But tell me what if the week before I
00:15:08
mean this is the dirty secret of retail. I I started a company called Red Envelope about 46 weeks a year we lose
00:15:15
money and then for 6 weeks we print it basically from a week before Thanksgiving to New Year's full price
00:15:24
fluttering in inbox full margin and you just print print money. So, this is
00:15:30
really kind of very very important to retail. But I think that I mean Amazon
00:15:36
saying that headphones that were $300 are now on sale today for $299 I wouldn't call is real really courageous.
00:15:43
And what I'm I'm hoping uh for me I kept going browsing all these sites who were
00:15:49
offering emotional stability on sale. That's the Black Friday I need. Cara.
00:15:54
So, speaking of uh stability, Donald Trump says he's made his pick for the next Fed chair, though he's not sharing a name yet. National Economic Council
00:16:01
Director Kevin Hasset, probably the most ex excellent suckup I've ever seen, is a
00:16:07
rumored front runner with several current and former Fed governors. Also in the mix, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant, who previously he didn't want
00:16:13
the job, said last week that Trump could announce the nominee before Christmas. All of this is happening as the Fed prepares to meet later this month for a
00:16:19
closely watched interest rate decision which people aren't really sure about. two things. I think Hasset is like
00:16:25
literally that and so many economists I talked to have always thought he was smart now are like what happened to
00:16:31
Hasset essentially and of course he sucks up continually and and I would say lies on on on the air quite a bit about
00:16:39
where inflation is and numbers like he did one about gas prices none of which was factual and he had to be fact
00:16:44
checked on in real time and he just kept smiling like an idiot throughout the whole thing. Um, do you have a someone
00:16:51
you have a a bud horse, do you think? And then what do you think they'll cut uh rates in uh in their in when they
00:16:57
meet uh later this month? Yeah. I mean, he's not going to consider the people I'd want. I'd want to I'd want something like Austin Goldsby or uh
00:17:05
a Justin Wolfers or I' I'd like I think Janet Yellen was fant I I want someone
00:17:12
who's just a total [ __ ] wonk and and sits by the fire with their Labrador and just looks through data all day long.
00:17:17
Mhm. That's not happening. We could do a lot worse than this guy. He He's known for writing a book that
00:17:23
could not have been more wrong. He tried to predict the market and you know that's a difficult question.
00:17:28
We could do worse. He wrote a book that was completely wrong. Okay. I know. But he does. Okay. He he did he
00:17:34
he isn't an economist in the research and statistics department in 1992. He did serve in the Treasury Department
00:17:41
under Clinton and Bush. He's not not a dumb man. And also people think he's lost his mind. Every
00:17:46
economist I talked to liked him and now does not like him. Let me be clear. Not my pick. It could
00:17:52
be worse. I wouldn't I just wouldn't have put it past and that's where we are. Yeah, exactly. I wouldn't have put it
00:17:59
past him to appoint Don Jr. I mean Yeah, fair point. Anyways, I don't This is not who I would
00:18:06
have picked. I would have renominated Chairman Pal. I would have said, "Hey, you can leave anytime. Will you do this
00:18:12
for another three or four years? He's not listening to me." But I actually when I first saw this I thought yeah not
00:18:18
ideal could be a lot worse. All right. Any other names you think? Just all of out of the blue could be Don
00:18:24
Jr. You're 100% right. It just at this point if he had a pet it could be his pet. That's that's where we are.
00:18:30
I actually think I if I'd had if someone had said guess who it's going to be be I would have thought it would have been
00:18:35
Bantm another thirsty person who's lost his reputation. Again, you're asking me who
00:18:41
I thought he was going to appoint, not who I think he should appoint. Um, but yeah, I don't
00:18:47
I thought it was Hass. He's been all over the airwaves, and that's what Trump likes, right? He's been all over the He can't shut his
00:18:52
I mean, Kevin Worsh, he's a former Fed governor. Christopher Waller, the thing about Trump is he does take he
00:18:59
clearly doesn't take national defense seriously. He clearly doesn't take the health of America seriously.
00:19:05
The Department of Education, he just thinks it's a a joke. Yeah, he thinks it's a joke
00:19:10
and he's almost he's almost angry at it and he puts a woman in charge who when asked about AI describes it as A1. She
00:19:18
thinks it's steak sauce. Yeah. But around the economy, by the way,
00:19:23
he at least appears to acknowledge the person has to have at least taken statistics in high school. He does he
00:19:31
will appoint an economist and he should put Jamie Diamond in the not that he would take it. I don't think Jaime's that wonky. I
00:19:36
think Jamie would be a good Treasury Secretary but not chairman of the Fed. He wants to be president of Yeah, I think Jamie I wouldn't be
00:19:42
surprised if Speaking of all over the place, you know, he's going to an opening of a door. Um
00:19:48
anyway, uh we'll see with this come on our pod though. I keep inviting him. He won't he won't come on my
00:19:53
I had a chief economist on really a very testy dinner so he doesn't You and Jamie
00:19:58
Yeah, I think he's really smart. Oh, he's very smart. He's a great You were arguing about China. He was lecturing me about China on the internet
00:20:05
and I'm not having it. I was just like, "No." His chief economist, Michael Symbolis, is really impressive. He kept saying they were copycats. I'm
00:20:11
like, they are to an extent, but they're actually getting very innovative. This was years ago. That's a key economic growth. What do
00:20:16
you think we did? We That's what I said. We stole textile manufacturing technology from Europe. And then we got
00:20:21
innovative, kidnapped their artisans to build up and down the eastern seabboard factories. Yeah. But then we did something with it,
00:20:28
right? And I said, I think there's a lot of innovation. This was years ago. I said in cars, in all kinds of areas,
00:20:34
like in manufacturing and we just got into it. It was very funny. He's not used to being disagreed with. That's all
00:20:40
I'd say. I don't I'm certainly impressed. Very impressed. I'm impressed by him. He just won't do
00:20:45
an interview with me. But that's Well, you won't do it with us either. I've invited him on. You David Solomon's coming on Prop Tree.
00:20:51
Oh, he's a fun guy. We've had him. He's good. He's smart. He's a fun guy. He really is. Anyway, uh let's We'll see what happens. We think
00:20:57
it's going to be uh the the best suckup, which is Kevin Hassid, who's not the worst choice. It's not Don Jr., that's
00:21:03
how we say it. It's not Don Jr. Wouldn't it be fun if he gave it to Baron? He'd be the tallest uh treasure. I mean, uh
00:21:09
Baron. Oh my god, he's so tall. The big man. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick
00:21:14
break. We come back, how David Saxs is benefiting his White House AIS are. Support for the show comes from Saks Fth
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inspiration to suit your holiday style at Saks Fth Avenue. Scott, we're back. Tech bros are reaping
00:21:51
the benefits of the Trump administration. as if we didn't know that. But the biggest winner might be White House AI and cryptos are uh David
00:21:58
Sachs. Uh by the way, cryptos, Bitcoin's reeled down recently, by the way, according to a piece in the New York
00:22:03
Times, which was a mild criticism and and also sort of the obvious. Doug Sax
00:22:09
has kept his role as Silicon Valley investor while serving as a special government employee. That's the way he gets out of it. ethics waiverss. He said
00:22:15
he was selling or had sold most of his crypto and AI assets, but the Times found he has more than 700 tech
00:22:20
investments that stand to benefit from policies helping shape and in fact are are focused on AI. In his White House
00:22:26
role, he's opened the doors to his tech network and pushed to clear regulatory hurdles for the firms and attacking any
00:22:31
AI firms that don't, you know, go along. Like he he did a really weird attack of anthropic as if they were like part of a
00:22:39
I don't know. He and he of course never talks about safety, never talks about anything. and they all get to have dinner with Trump. So, uh, Saxs deemed
00:22:46
the story a nothing burger and tech folks of course are really in a very s overly sensitive way coming to his
00:22:52
defense. Mark Beni off said the article is almost strategic sabotage. Oh, Mark
00:22:57
Andre called Sachs a credit to our nation. Um, let me just I'm going to start with this. Listen, I'm thrilled.
00:23:03
We're doing lots of stuff in AI. I think we should invest in it. I've talked about it for years, but this is such an in this is such an insider game for all
00:23:11
of them. there. They don't have anyone who has safety issues. He zeros out people who like Anthropic who have just
00:23:18
a little bit of concern for people. This is not about the American people. This is not about democracy. This is about
00:23:23
the rich getting their [ __ ] and telling us what to do and they're ridiculously over overweening uh reaction was just
00:23:31
example of that. This was the mildest of criticisms to point this out and they're losing their ever loving minds. And I
00:23:38
find nothing wrong with pushing AI. I think it's a real opportunity for whatever the president is, but this is
00:23:43
so clearly these dinners these is grifty to the extreme and it's benefited all of
00:23:48
them including David Sax. Thank you. I didn't even read the article. I knew what it said before I read it.
00:23:55
Um, and this did was go through the companies. It was just a it was a mathematical thing. But go ahead.
00:24:02
Yeah. Look, I I come back to the same place, and that is he's playing the game that's been set up where if you I don't
00:24:09
I don't I've never listened to the all-in pod, but I've seen clips of it, and it strikes me that they figured out
00:24:16
the best economic model in history is to try and is proximity and suck up to the
00:24:21
president in hopes that he'll give he and some of your companies regulatory capture or just straight up government
00:24:27
contracts or maybe award you Tik Tok at 80% off that that's the fastest way to
00:24:33
go from being worth 50 million to five billion or to get your nephew out of prison is just to show up at one of his
00:24:39
fundraisers and say I'm in for three million for you renovating the east wing. So I don't you read the article. I
00:24:46
didn't I don't see him doing anything different than anybody else that that is engaged in this conflict of interest and
00:24:51
it all leads back to the same place for me. I think the government to get that call to serve at the highest levels and
00:24:57
be an official adviser in a senior policy position is extremely prestigious
00:25:02
and it should be and in exchange for doing that it's absolutely a a a signal
00:25:08
accommodation acknowledgement of your success and in exchange for taking that position everything you own everything
00:25:15
you have an interest in is put in a blind trust and and and also I think we need to pay these people more but we
00:25:23
have we can't have public policy and competitive markets shaped on who has proximity to the president because
00:25:29
anyone who doesn't ends up leaking advantage to those who do. This is just more of the same.
00:25:34
Yeah. I think that the if he was going to go in and and improve AI, which is great idea, he would he would look for
00:25:41
ways we could all agree like he would would deal with universities. He would bring in other people, not [ __ ] Mark.
00:25:47
How many times has Mark Andre been to Marlo? Dozens, right? Or whatever it number is. They they all get to go. I
00:25:54
haven't been asked by David Saxs. I disagree with him. I think I have some ideas. Like he doesn't ask critics. He
00:26:00
doesn't ask for feedback. He's not He's never said the word safety once at all. He's not doing this for all Americans
00:26:07
people. He's doing it for him and his cronies. And that is perfectly fine. This is not a new Washington thing where
00:26:12
the cronies don't uh belly up to the bar or pigs to the trough. This is not a new thing. It's just this every time they
00:26:20
get criticized like literally the I don't even mind them like going crazy about this and acting like it was oh how
00:26:25
dare you insult our genius. I'm so used to that [ __ ] like cuz they're such victims themselves. I really got
00:26:32
offended when he attacked Anthropic in a really like he picked out an this is the
00:26:38
AI head. He should shut his [ __ ] mouth about individual companies. Anthropic is more safety conscious and
00:26:44
they should be able to say it and be part of the conversation. in a bigger way. And everybody, if you're the real
00:26:50
AI advisor, the president, you let them hear problems too, right? You let them hear like criticisms. You let people in.
00:26:57
And this is just this is just pigs at the trough. Same thing. And again, not
00:27:02
new, but to when they get offended by it, it makes me exhausted by these people. They're so overly sensitive.
00:27:08
Anyway, go ahead. Let me just say the I find the thing that's most problematic and that and I don't know if the NYT
00:27:15
reported on this, but he received ethics waiverss in March and and said that he'd
00:27:20
sold or begun selling many conflicting assets. So, I understand the conflict. I'm not guilty of it and I'm making
00:27:28
personal and financial sacrifice to reduce the actual and appearance of conflict. And what it ends up is he has
00:27:34
hundreds of investments in companies that have reclassified themselves as computer or hardware that are basically AI companies.
00:27:40
They have AI in every website. That's what that's all they did. That's all the Times did. Sorry, Mark Benoff. It isn't
00:27:46
like strategic [ __ ] sabotage. What is I'm sorry. I know you're on Mark's size, but stop it, Mark. There's no
00:27:53
I did not understand why Mark came to David's because he he's so thirsty and wants to get in. Mark, it's so disappointing.
00:28:00
It's just a story that shows that his companies are very much in conflict of interest, that's all. So, calm the [ __ ]
00:28:07
down all you dudes. Anyway, um the Anyway, it was so mild. It was so mild. Anyway, Donald Trump is escalating his
00:28:13
immigration crackdowns in another area after two National Guard members were shot, one of them fatally near the White
00:28:19
House last week. And and uh condolences to the family of that woman uh National Guard woman um allegedly by an Afghan
00:28:27
national on Thanks, it's very confusing. On Thanksgiving, Trump posted he's permanently pausing migration from quote
00:28:32
third world countries, whatever that means, and is ending federal benefits for non-citizens. He also, these are
00:28:38
workers who who contribute to our society. He also threatened to denaturalize Americans, he claims, are
00:28:43
undermining domestic tranquility. That means you and me, Scott, I guess. Uh Trump said only reverse migration can
00:28:49
fully cure this situation. All asylum decisions have been halted for the time being. Christine No made it went around
00:28:55
and said illegal things all over the place. Um Ian Bremer pointed out on threads is basically a gift to China and
00:29:01
any other country eager to scoop up foreign talent. It also hurts everybody from people who take care of the elderly
00:29:08
here to stores to factories to um to go after. And there was some there was a
00:29:14
really interesting look at Chicago and almost all there was just of the 4,000
00:29:19
arrests maybe a hundred had criminal uh criminal problems and and very few of
00:29:25
them had serious problems. It was more like they missed an appointment versus um versus anything serious. I think the
00:29:32
number of serious people was a dozen of the 4,000 people. It was mostly hardworking people that they targeted
00:29:38
and and and violently, I would say. Um so thoughts on this? I mean, from an
00:29:44
economic point of view, this is and denaturalize Americans. How in the hell can you do that?
00:29:50
Oh, this is just awful on a number of levels. And we don't know if this person had a mental health episode or and I
00:29:56
don't mean to diminish the tragedy here, but I mean watching Secretary Gnome put
00:30:02
herself in knots trying to blame the Biden administration for setting in place the policies that the Trump administration then granted this
00:30:08
individual sum. And by the way, I think it's really important that when we have p people supporting and collaborating
00:30:14
with us and saving American servicemen's life and taking huge risks themselves like in Vietnam, we did it every every
00:30:22
repatriating them, giving them opportunity to immigrate here. If this threatens that, I think that's just
00:30:27
awful because I mean there's a bigger issue around letting it letting the best and brightest come to our nation at all
00:30:33
levels of the kind of labor stack. But I think we do we weaken or we put our
00:30:40
servicemen and women in much greater peril when we are not taken seriously or
00:30:46
the the promise of getting you out of a hostile territory. when you decide,
00:30:51
you know, these people, if you don't get these people out and after you've abandoned Afghanistan and and these
00:31:00
people are going to die terrible deaths and their families if you don't if you don't give them asylum here. So, when I
00:31:05
saw this, I thought, I hope they don't use this as an excuse to stop.
00:31:11
At the end of the day, we will be less safe overseas and our fine men and women in uniform will have a more difficult
00:31:17
time accomplishing missions if they don't if the people over there don't feel as if America is going to look
00:31:23
after them. Y if they in fact if they in fact um aid us. So this is just I mean this is bad
00:31:30
all the way around. I don't I don't know how to I don't know how to frame this other than this is a tragedy on a number
00:31:35
of levels. Yeah. It's just it's nuts. Like look, obviously we bring people back here as you said because they helped us. This
00:31:42
was vetted by the Trump administration and of course Percy Nome is doing every pretzel possible. By the way, seeing she
00:31:49
wouldn't follow federal judges rulings. I was like, are you like getting ready to be arrested soon when this is done?
00:31:55
Because she's just like these people are self-owning themselves legally like a
00:32:01
lot. You know, I don't listen to judges. Oh, good. that when we arrest you, we will be playing this particular uh
00:32:07
thing. The fact that she doesn't want to figure out what happened here and instead just lay blame. Um obviously
00:32:14
there was a mental he was working for a I think it's called the zero team which was a particularly brutal um group that
00:32:20
he worked for. He might have had a mental breakdown. He obviously wasn't when he was granted asylum by the Trump
00:32:26
administration. He obviously was not vetted properly. Right. And and that is
00:32:31
what it is. And again, I wouldn't even blame them for that, right? Like nothing's perfect in any of these
00:32:36
vettings, by the way. But the fact is they have to lay on blame to Biden, by the way, who looked rather rigorous over
00:32:42
the holidays, I will say. Um, it just felt it just felt it just it's like
00:32:48
these people cannot ever just have a tragedy happen and try to solve it. They
00:32:53
have to do threats and they have to you use everything for a political end. And in this case, it's really bad for our
00:32:59
economy. That's all I kept thinking as they were yammering on. Um and and still and it remains a tragedy for all these
00:33:05
families that get upended in a really unnecessary way. Anyway, um I would
00:33:12
recommend you listening to people like Ian Bremer and others so you can understand the economic implications of
00:33:17
this. Um all right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Melania's new production company. Scott,
00:33:24
we're back with a very important story. Melania Trump has launched a new production company called Muse Films.
00:33:29
The first project is a documentary titled Melania, set for a global theatrical release in January. The film
00:33:35
will spotlight uh the 20 days leading up to Trump's 2025 inauguration. The documentaries rights were reportedly
00:33:41
bought by Amazon MGM Studios in a bribe. Oh, I mean uh they thought it was a great thing for $40 million. I don't
00:33:48
know the last time a documentary got that amount. Um I uh the director of Melania, Brett Ratner, is staying busy
00:33:55
thanks to the Trumps. Again, Ratner, who'd been accused very credibly in a really an astonishing piece in the New
00:34:01
York Times, actually of sexual harassment and misconduct, um is at work on Rush Hour 4 after President Trump
00:34:07
really pushed Paramount to revive the franchise. I don't feel like we need Rush Hour 4. I did like Rush Hour, the
00:34:14
original one. Um so, what do you think of this? It feels like another Obama group that's not going to she's going to
00:34:19
make one shitty thing and then that's it. These sort of vanity production companies, right?
00:34:25
Yeah. Whether it's the Marls or the Obamas, this is nothing unusual. And that is people who studios convince
00:34:33
studios like proximity to famous people, powerful people. Also, their fame can
00:34:38
lead to usually when they write a book, they it does really well, sells a lot sometimes. Yeah. um uh what the Obamas
00:34:46
and the Marles quite frankly developed a reputation for was cashing checks and then not wanting to actually do any work, right?
00:34:51
And these things kind of fizzled out and really didn't go anywhere. But what and look, buyer beware if they want to
00:34:58
leverage their celebrity to every author wants to be overpaid. Everyone who write
00:35:03
assigns their film production wants to be overpaid. That's your agent's job is to make the studio I don't say regret it
00:35:09
but when my book agent negotiates my book deals. If I don't get royalties that means he's
00:35:15
done his job. It means he got a big upfront advance or so them going out and
00:35:20
getting deals is fine. What's different here is the following and it is a distinct difference. They waited the the
00:35:26
Obamas waited until they were out of office and weren't in a position to influence mergers and acquisitions
00:35:32
with the DOJ or the FDC. The first lady should not be entering into commercial agreements in exchange for wink wink.
00:35:39
I'll make sure this acquisition does or does not go through. Netflix
00:35:44
probably will not get unless it's some sort of club deal. Warner Brothers because Reed Hastings is known as a
00:35:50
Democrat. And so when you say to when this has nothing to do with the untapped
00:35:57
extraordinarily deep creative talents of Melania Trump. Okay. So what this is is
00:36:03
okay. Will this put us in a favorable light for $40 million on all regulatory
00:36:08
concerns from the FCC around mergers we want or business we want from the most
00:36:13
powerful man in the world and it's [ __ ] It all comes back to the same level. If you decide to be in public
00:36:19
service, you and your family give up. You get a lot you get a lot of great [ __ ] You get to fly out on a really
00:36:25
cool plane. You can get reservations anywhere for the rest of your life. You get a library named after you. People stand up when you walk into the room.
00:36:32
The downside is you cannot have conflicts of any sort like this. And Melania Trump, I've always thought quite
00:36:39
frankly, first lady, uh, first lady Trump, I've always thought like I I've
00:36:45
never understood I think she's a Let me I think she's the worst first lady in history. I I don't I don't think she
00:36:52
does anything redeeming. I I I I'm still convinced. I I want to give her this. I
00:36:57
think her English is better than my check. I've never heard her speak. Uh, she's guilty of the same chain migration
00:37:03
that they're all claiming. Yeah, fine. She obviously wants nothing to do with him. She's never at the White
00:37:10
House. Fine. But but at the same time, there's no I I don't ever feel a need
00:37:15
to. I think it's a little unfair when people go after family members, whether it's the first lady, what have you. If
00:37:21
she wants to go into film production the day after she leaves office, more power to her. And if someone is stupid enough
00:37:26
to believe she has any insight into the creative process, fine. And maybe she does have contacts. Maybe people would
00:37:32
be so interested if she's willing to say, "Okay, this is this is the behindthe-scenes story of of this guy."
00:37:39
Oh, it's not going to be interesting in any way. I agree. But my point is, this all comes
00:37:44
back to the same thing. Whether it's what we're talking about with David Sax, conflict of interest, you don't do these deals and except accept tens of millions
00:37:51
of dollars while you're in office. She's been for sale from the get-go
00:37:56
since she she took a plane over here. Come on. Let's be clear what she is. It's just the price. It's just the
00:38:02
price. Well, okay. I want to be clear. I think we're all for sale to a certain extent. I don't think this I've done I've done I've done worse
00:38:09
things for a lot less money than sleep with Donald Trump. I don't think you would [ __ ] Donald Trump. I don't think you will.
00:38:15
Enough beers. I don't I don't think so. I literally think you even you would be like there's no
00:38:20
amount. No, I don't I don't begrudge people for wanting a better life. Who knows? He's
00:38:26
powerful. Maybe she's attracted to him. I don't even want to go there. I I shall I That's pretty Let me just
00:38:32
like make one Melania observation is she's The only thing I ever liked about Melania were those [ __ ] crazy blood
00:38:39
trees. I thought what a [ __ ] I love her for this. The remember when she did the Christmas trees that were all red
00:38:45
and they were bloody. The bloody Christmas tree when she took the White House and she decorated with these really blood red trees. It was so
00:38:53
evil that I I was like, "Good for you, girl. you you decided to lean into crazy and you did it and I that's the only
00:39:00
part I like if she did if this film is like that I'm going to watch it. That's my only you know. So now I'm having trouble
00:39:07
every time I see a really cute picture of penguins greeting a pigeon or a a a
00:39:14
lion taking care of a small wolf or something. I immediately go, is this AI? And I saw
00:39:19
this thing that I was convinced it was AI. And it was first lady Melania Trump talking about the threats
00:39:25
of AI to a squadron. Oh yes. Of military. Self-guided drones.
00:39:31
Drones. Spaced driven AI satellites. They are all already here. This is not the
00:39:36
future. They are here. And I'm like the And then I'm like, this isn't AI. I'm like, who decided that the first
00:39:42
lady I know she she did that should go talk to the military about AI warfare? She also did a White House
00:39:48
thing about it was so again Cara Swisser's not invite invited but Melania Trump can talk about AA I'm just pointing out Donald invite me I will
00:39:55
give you some thoughts on AA but let me just say rush hour 4 I'm not whatever the whole thing is such a fix
00:40:01
well I'll give her this I I think it's I think she's very fashionable I think she's very hot and I think that's important in a first lady
00:40:08
I don't you know whatever I don't want a hot first lady well Jackie Kennedy was was she hot yeah I
00:40:13
guess for the time for the I mean Obama was very attractive like my Eisenhower before her. So, it's
00:40:18
like First Lady Bush is very pretty. I think she was actually hot, too. She was a hot grand. Anyway,
00:40:24
all right, let's not stack rank the first ladies. Anyway, uh uh one more quick break. If I ran for president, do you think
00:40:31
Emily Rodikowski would be more She's not thinking of you. I told you she's in a room with AOC and your ex
00:40:36
fourth grade. I realize you're trying to protect her. They're not talking about you somewhere. They are together not talking about you
00:40:42
ever. Ever. Um one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. I got a good one this week, Scott. Okay,
00:40:49
Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I'm going to go first because I want to tell you first. I want to pay very
00:40:54
quick. This is this is a well, it's a fail, I guess. I want to pay tribute to one of my favorite u playwrights, Tom
00:41:00
Stopppard, the legendary uh writer who died at 88 over the weekend. I love Tom
00:41:06
Stopppard more than any other playright. Changed my life. Uh particularly
00:41:11
everything I saw of his. Rosen Cran and Gilden Stern are dead, all these things. But there was a play Arcadia that I saw
00:41:17
as a young person and it literally changed my life. I don't know how you know storytelling does change people's
00:41:22
life. I'm going to read a quote from uh it's it's a very he was very scientific and complex. He always had science
00:41:28
running throughout many of his plays and and ideas metaphysical, religious, all kinds of things. But there was a quote
00:41:35
we shed as we pick up like travelers who must carry everything in their arms and what we fall what we let fall will be
00:41:41
picked up by those behind. The procession is very long and life is very short. We die on the march. There is
00:41:47
nothing outside the march so nothing can be lost to it. The missing plays of Sophocles will turn up piece by piece or
00:41:54
be written again in another language. Ancient cures for diseases will reveal themselves once more. Mathematical
00:41:59
discoveries glimpsed and lost to view will have their time again. Do not suppose, my lady, that if all of
00:42:05
Archimedes had been hiding in the great library of Alexandria, we be at loss for a corpse screw. I love him. Such a good
00:42:11
writer. Such a great writer. Anyway, speaking of that, I finally watched Plurabus. Scott, thank you for the
00:42:18
recommendation. I [ __ ] love that show. Really? I love it. I love it. I I haven't gotten
00:42:24
to episode five of this. I We Amanda and I watched three episodes last night.
00:42:29
Oh my [ __ ] god. It's all about AI. That's what I think it's about. It's about AI come to life and giving you
00:42:35
everything you want and being very pleasing. And she's like me. I Well, I do. I feel like I I am her Carol. Um
00:42:43
like no, get the [ __ ] away from me or no, give me a grenade or whatever. I love that show. It is such an inc That
00:42:50
guy has just made me think in all kinds of new ways. He's a genius. Vince Gilligan is a
00:42:55
genius. It is so And it's also funny funny like every bit of it. And I just It's
00:43:03
not dark, but it is. And I just it's made me I can't stop thinking of it. That's what I would say. the winner.
00:43:09
Run, don't walk to watch Plurbus. It is so good. It is that good. And I I appreciate you showing that, giving me
00:43:15
that. Well, I'm glad. Yeah, that's my I guess that's my win fail, I guess. I mean, my fail is the
00:43:21
continued ridiculous sensitivity of the grifters of tech who pretend that they're doing this for all of us when
00:43:26
they're doing it for them. That would be my fail, but they're they're always my fail. They're such greedy little pigs.
00:43:31
Anyway, go ahead. Um, so my win is I I haven't been a fan of the series, but I
00:43:37
went and saw the third one and I thought it was just so fantastic. I saw Knives Out. Oh, I love that. I love
00:43:42
And I saw the third and I just thought it was so wonderful. Ben, right? Is his
00:43:47
name Benois? Yeah. Uh, so um, Daniel Craig, I thought he was the
00:43:54
most physical. James Bond, he's also, I think, the best actor. I think he and he's also he is great in this. And the
00:44:00
kid who plays the priest, um, I got to get the cast. The kid who plays the priest is going to be a movie
00:44:07
star. Yeah. Joe, what's his name? Who plays the younger uh the younger priest? And also, you know who I've
00:44:12
never been I'm not I say I'm not a um um a huge
00:44:19
fan, but I just think I hope she's the most talented actress that has yet to
00:44:24
win an Academy Award. Mhm. Glenn Close was so good.
00:44:30
Great. And she's I also love Tom Spard. She gave a great tribute to him. She's also uh she's 78. She's been
00:44:36
nominated, get this, eight times. Oh, she's so good. And um uh Thomas Hayden Church was in in
00:44:43
She's in that Kim Kardashian thing that everybody hates, but has gotten renewed again. All fair. Anyways, I just thought it was
00:44:50
a I thought it was a really um wonderful movie. I know. I'm gonna see it. It's on my
00:44:55
list. Um, so my my fail is going to be more controversial, but
00:45:01
I spent a lot of week I've spent a lot of the weekend reading, you know, because I'm a narcissist, reading my reviews for my book, and most have been
00:45:08
positive. The harshest push back I've received have been almost universally from
00:45:14
therapists who say that one one, you know, here's another man
00:45:20
blaming women for men's problems. I'm like, okay, clearly this person hasn't read the book. Uh, but the basis is that
00:45:28
men before they can move to having a relationship or focusing on economic security need to work on themselves.
00:45:35
And I feel as if online and generally as a a gestalt in America that therapy
00:45:41
fixes everything. And I feel like it's sort of becoming the new take this supplement to solve all your problems.
00:45:47
And just as I think sometimes supplements are a pipeline to being redpilled, I
00:45:53
think this therapy fixes everything is a bit of a supplement to focusing on on
00:45:58
certain virtue signaling as opposed to focusing on the material or economic well-being of Americans. And that is
00:46:05
um I think overprescription of therapy can pathize normal life. When you know
00:46:11
every frustration, conflict or sadness is framed as something that needs therapy. I think people can lose sight
00:46:17
of the fact that some problems are situational, not psychological. Some difficulties require structural
00:46:23
solutions, not introspection. And market forces reward influencers
00:46:29
right now who promote therapy for [ __ ] everything. And also
00:46:36
saying that you just need more therapy to fix this problem is a little bit like me saying you're frustrated by airport
00:46:44
delays. Well, you should fly private. The majority of people do not have access to $200 an hour therapists.
00:46:51
They do. And what I would argue is that it's an answer, but it's not the answer.
00:46:56
Oh, I like your defense. Although my mother-in-law is going to come after you now, both Well, therapists are hammers and
00:47:01
everything they see is nails. And also, there's a feminis. I don't know if that's the case, but I I can see your
00:47:06
point. I'll let you respond and let me get through this. Okay. Also, just so I can trigger a lot of people, the
00:47:12
feminization of therapy means a lot of young men don't relate to these
00:47:18
therapists. Uh-oh. And that's not to say they can't help them, but if you're a young man who
00:47:25
can't get a job and and is having trouble finding or leveling up your own
00:47:31
offering such that you can some at some point find mentors, friends, and mates, I'm not sure I'm not sure sometimes that
00:47:38
these young men are I'm not to say they can't benefit, but my point is it can help, but it's not the only or always
00:47:44
the best tool. support of friendships or community, lifestyle changes, addressing financial or structural barriers,
00:47:51
developing skills, medical evaluation for underlying conditions, cultural or spiritual framework, self-education.
00:47:58
And when therapy becomes ideology, my sense is all the nuances disappearing. This this sense that if
00:48:05
you don't go to therapy, you're refusing to grow. If you disagree with therapy, you're avoiding healing. If therapy
00:48:11
didn't work, it must be your fault. I I feel like it's not mental health. that's becoming dogma. And I'm not anti-
00:48:19
therapy. I'm anti-over oversimplification and that it is a powerful tool for many
00:48:24
people. But to be clear, folks, logistically and financially, it is not
00:48:30
a universal fix here. And the argument isn't therapy is bad. It's that therapy
00:48:35
is being marketed like supplements promised as the answer to everything else. Okay? pushed by people who profit
00:48:41
from the narrative and stripped it of the nuance required to be truly truly useful. And also, I would argue that if
00:48:51
you have real mental health health issues or you have the money and the luxury of getting therapy, have at it.
00:48:58
Hugely beneficial. my therapy bomb. A nuclear [ __ ]
00:49:03
detonation fluoride out in the water that would be as good as therapy for the vast majority of young men who
00:49:10
supposedly all need to work on themselves before they can make money or have a relationship would be higher
00:49:16
wages and lower chronic stress. $25 an hour minimum wage. Paid family leave. I
00:49:22
knew you were universal child care. 8 million homes in 10 years. Universal
00:49:28
health care. reduce fear and earlier intervention. Less less student debt, less medical debt, child care support,
00:49:35
lower parental burnout, student debt relief, longerterm stress and higher well-being, a stronger safety net, fewer
00:49:42
crises will escalate. Guess what? We can have more and more high blood pressure and diabetes medication. Or maybe we get
00:49:50
people working out and get them access to healthier food, workplace standards,
00:49:55
safer, healthier environments. Bottom line, you can't therapy your way out of
00:50:01
material procarity. And what I see online is everyone stating that mental
00:50:06
health is the only answer. No, it's an answer. I don't know if everyone does that, but let me
00:50:12
Oh my god. Go online, Cara. I will. I will. It's worse than two questions and then I
00:50:17
will make an observation. Let me obser. I've never been in therapy myself. I
00:50:22
know it shows. Um, and I don't I I have not thought I needed it. I went once for a couple's therapy and I just wanted to
00:50:28
Oh my god. I'm the exact same thing. I was like, "Let me off." Just to clarify, we should get divorced. That's the only therapy I've ever been.
00:50:35
Yeah. Well, it is. Yep. You should get divorced. The therapist, I swear to God, I was like, "This is the last stop on the
00:50:40
relationship train. That's 100%. Oh my god, I love you. You're literally you're channeling my every
00:50:46
thought." And so, and a therapist goes, "Cara, how are you feeling?" And I said, "I feel like watching television."
00:50:51
And they're excited to go sleep with strangers. I'm super excited to go sleep with strangers.
00:50:57
They and my ex was like, "That's not a feeling." I go, "No, it is. It is. I feel good when I watch television. I'm very happy. I feel like doing that." And
00:51:04
the therapist was like, "You're fine. You can go." And I don't I agree with you. I don't My
00:51:10
both, by the way, both my in-laws are, but one is a psychiatrist, the other is a psychologist. Yeah. Psychologist. And
00:51:17
um they're wonderful. And I think they do believe in therapy and and its uses and everything else. I think that you're
00:51:23
right that it has to be a well-rounded thing and not everyone avails himself to therapy in the ways that are possible.
00:51:30
Um, and that you don't necessarily like I do think, you know, like one of my kids mental health is better because he
00:51:36
works out all the time. I think it helps him mentally. I can see it. You know what I mean? He feels better about himself, especially he eats better. He's
00:51:44
been eating better. And um, he wasn't depressed, but he's a better person for it. Like I don't know what else to it
00:51:49
wasn't like he was like dealing with all kinds of trauma but I I do see improvements or my other son I know it
00:51:55
sounds crazy loves to drive a car and he loves driving and if it's mentally healthy for him to he like goes on road
00:52:01
trips and it's like he takes a minute like there's other ways to the I go to the hardware store. I love a hardware
00:52:07
store like I feel better like I know it sounds crazy but I do or clean or something like that but I see your
00:52:13
point. I do I do see one of the things I push back on your behalf and then and then just tell me this is everyone's
00:52:20
like oh he does he's not a therapist. I said he's not saying that in this thing. He's not he's not like like you haven't
00:52:26
read it because he's not putting himself like there are a lot of man writers that see themselves as therapists. You know
00:52:32
that right? There's that kind of like here's the answer. I don't think you're doing that. So I don't think it's fair.
00:52:37
That's that would be my that would be my observation. What what I'm look I think
00:52:43
economic policy I think we need I think the greatest mental health the greatest
00:52:50
source that gets to the same or or a similar place of therapy would be mental
00:52:56
health policy. Yeah. When people have stable housing, health care, reasonable work hours,
00:53:02
predictable pay, child care, and a social safety net, their mental health improves to the
00:53:07
point where they may not need to speak to a $200 an hour therapist or if they can, if they're available.
00:53:13
That's why there's so many online therapists. I had dinner with the governor of Massachusetts. We were talking a little bit about like
00:53:18
homelessness and mental health issues. They're so linked. There's so there's so
00:53:23
I if you are in a position to afford mental health and it's accessible if you
00:53:28
are clearly struggling with mental health issues absolutely it is hugely important I'm I'm in favor of it
00:53:36
but I I believe this if we had if we could give young people structural
00:53:44
foundation for more economic opportunity and the chance to meet people and have more
00:53:50
stronger relationships, I think the need for therapy would be
00:53:55
substantially reduced. I want people in the gym before they get need statins or
00:54:01
diabetes medication. Statins is important. Stats, I guess. Yeah. Some things are just genetic
00:54:08
though, right? I mean, well, no. And if you inherit if you're bipolar and you have mental health issues in your family, by all means,
00:54:15
help those people find therapists and psychiatrists. But it what I'm
00:54:20
seeing online is a and most of these people by the way are no longer practicing. They're just on TikTok.
00:54:26
And I find it's I know which one you're talking about. The one that the one that the guy talking about you. I think Chelsea
00:54:33
Handler sent it to you or one someone did. But if you re if you look at these folks background, it's like, all right, the
00:54:39
algorithms support dogma over mental health policy and they want to shame
00:54:45
people that aren't well well these people these men shouldn't even be thinking you you're
00:54:51
you're sending them down the wrong path. They need to work on themselves first. I'm like, you know what? I bet if this kid got a good job and had a better
00:54:58
friend network, that would solve a lot of this. Yeah. I think that that piece that as as
00:55:04
well meaning as it was, it was it wasn't what was happening anyway. Uh I like that. I like that we're going to get a
00:55:09
lot of push back, but that's okay. That's fine. That's fine. You know what I've learned? Both of us have therapeutic situation.
00:55:15
It's like World War II when bombers targeting sites used to malfunction. Yeah.
00:55:20
The pilots used to say, "Drop your bombs when we're getting the most flak because that means we're over the target."
00:55:26
Oh, all right. Okay. We're going to get there. There's the old man coming out. Ass. Anyway, uh that was that was a good
00:55:32
one. I like it. I like it. And I'm sure you're going to hear from my in-laws. Um anyway, we want who are big listeners, by the way, especially my mother-in-law,
00:55:39
uh Ann. Um anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your
00:55:44
mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 8551
00:55:49
pivot. We have a special listener mail show coming up, so please get those questions in. We'd love to answer your
00:55:55
questions. Um, elsewhere in the Cara and Scott universe on the latest episode of On with Caris Swisser, I'm talking uh to
00:56:01
comedian Tig Nataro. Let's listen to a clip. Do you do you feel a shift in
00:56:06
comedy? I mean, there is the whole bro comedy circuit, of course. Yeah, I feel a massive shift whether it is the bro
00:56:13
comedy, very conservative comedy. You know, when I first started almost 30
00:56:19
years ago, it was very unusual to find a conservative
00:56:24
out conservative comedian. People would all kind of reference Dennis Miller. Um,
00:56:30
yeah, I feel the shift. Anyway, very interesting interview. Uh, she's just done a really fascinating documentary
00:56:36
about She's having a moment though. She's doing really well, right? She is. She's amazing. She was on the morning show. She's on this great
00:56:42
handsome podcast that she does. Um, and she did this documentary that is a oddly
00:56:48
it's about the death the cancer death of a spoken word lesbian not lesbian
00:56:54
non-binary poet and it's riveting. Like I I I was like, "Huh?" I don't I don't know. But it was beautiful. She's done
00:57:00
this she's executive produced. It's really quite good. Um, anyway, she's she's also a lovely person, let me just
00:57:05
say. And I love interviewing, as you know, comics and comedians because I really enjoy it. I'm going to do Michelle Wolf soon just for you.
00:57:12
Oh my god. Oh my god. I know. My hero. I know. She just did a hysterical thing
00:57:17
about the relationship between the two wicked stars. That will make you laugh. She was like, "Oh, I I thought of you when I saw those
00:57:24
two." Yeah, I know. Oh my god. It's going a little bit over the top. But Michelle, I'm going to send you the
00:57:29
Michelle Wolf take on it, which is I usually don't like to comment on people's, but what the hell? like she's
00:57:36
she did a great I'll send it to you. Anyway, I love Michelle Wolf. Um okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to
00:57:42
Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott read us out.
00:57:48
Today's show is produced by Larara Neman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Brandon McFarland. Ernie Dodd engineered this episode. Jim Mel edited the video.
00:57:55
Thanks also to Drew Brows, Miss Sa Dalon, and Kate Gallagher. Deshakura is Vox Media's executive producer podcast.
00:58:02
Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can
00:58:08
subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and
00:58:14
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