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[Music]
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the murder of a beautiful young woman
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went unsolved for years
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a murder with forensic evidence and
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plenty of suspects
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but sometimes
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that's not enough
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[Music]
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it took the victim's nine-year-old child
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notations in a diary and forensic
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psychology to determine
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which forensic evidence was important
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and which to ignore
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[Music]
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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thirty-year-old kathleen lipscomb was
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trying to find her way
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raising two young children while at the
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same time working as a nurse in san
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antonio texas
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she was a very caring person
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she loved her family
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she stayed in constant contact with us
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kathleen had been married for eight
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years to bill lipscomb a sergeant in the
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united states air force but they had
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recently separated
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their arrangement was for bill to take
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care of their children on weekends
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but one sunday night
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kathleen didn't arrive to pick them up
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as planned
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bill drove the children to kathleen's
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apartment but she wasn't there
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and her car was missing so they left
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notes on her door
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[Music]
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the next morning
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there was still no sign of her
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one of her co-workers called me and told
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me that they were worried that she
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hadn't showed up for work
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my stomach kind of not you know knotted
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up for a minute and then i thought no
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you know
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bill had the kids kathleen probably went
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out with some girlfriends or something
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and she'll she'll be in she's just late
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today
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later that same day
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a man spotted a nude body along a
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deserted road outside of town
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it was kathleen lipscomb
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it was clear
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she had been murdered elsewhere
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without a doubt she had been transported
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from point a to this point b being where
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she was she was left
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the fact that kathleen's clothing had
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been rolled not folded told
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investigators something important
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it's definitely military just without a
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doubt that's the only people that i have
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ever seen
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roll their clothes in that fashion is a
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military type person
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unfortunately there were no discernible
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tire or footwear impressions near the
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body
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kathleen's estranged husband bill was
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immediately called in for questioning
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i did check him to see if there were any
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any wounds on his body possibly any
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defensive wounds
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to see if there was any any kind of
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scrapes bruisings
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anything under his fingernails that
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would indicate where he had scratched
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anybody and could find that
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[Music]
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the children told police that their
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father was with them the entire weekend
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confirming his alibi
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at the autopsy the medical examiner
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determined the cause of death was
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strangulation
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it appeared kathleen had sexual
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relations 24 hours before her death
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friends told police that kathleen had
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been dating a married doctor in town
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david pearl
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kathleen and dr pearl worked together
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through their close association
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kathleen fell in love with him
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and she was thoroughly confident that he
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loved her too he promised to get a
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divorce and marry her we found out that
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dr pearl had had many relationships and
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told his girlfriends that he was in fact
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separated from his wife when he wasn't
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and
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you know just the jealous ex-wife kind
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of thing
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that that was one concern of mine
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dr pearl admitted he was with kathleen
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during the weekend
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but insisted he had nothing to do with
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her murder
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and investigators had another suspect
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vincent robidell a nurse worked with
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kathleen at the hospital and lived in
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the same apartment complex
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he hadn't shown up for work either he
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had left down
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he didn't even go back to pick up his
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paycheck nor did he even request it be
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sent to him
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with so many suspects
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investigators hardly knew
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where to start
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[Music]
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one week after kathleen lipscomb's
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murder her car was found in a restaurant
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parking lot not far from her apartment
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investigators found no foreign
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fingerprints on or in the car
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to determine the time of kathleen's
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death medical examiner dr robert bucks
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had two ways to tell
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she had eaten chinese food it was
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basically undigested
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which indicates that
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she had eaten in a short period of time
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prior to her death
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and the marks on kathleen's legs were
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identified as ant bites and helped
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establish a time frame
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most of the ant activity occurs during
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daylight hours so that probably occurred
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beginning around dawn on that morning
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these two indicators meant kathleen had
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probably been killed around dinner time
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on sunday night
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and dumped in the field before dawn
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forensic investigators found four
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strands of red human hair on kathleen's
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clothing
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under a stereo microscope
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scientists noticed the hairs had no root
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at the root end you should see the root
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which is a
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a bulb shaped structure
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depending on what the
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stage of the hair growth is
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when magnified 100 times
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you can see evidence that the hair was
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dyed
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many times you will see an actual
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demarcation line between the original
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color of the hair at the root end to the
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dyed color of the hair towards the tip
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end of the hair
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all four hairs showed the same dye
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pattern
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when compared
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the hairs were not similar to kathleen's
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estranged husband bill or her boyfriend
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dr david pearl
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at the time
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genetic testing was still years away
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the hair was minus its roots
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back in 1986 it is in the late 80s
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the forensic technology was not as
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advanced as it is today in 2003 so
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beyond that point this as far as we
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could go
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about the only bright spot in the
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investigation was when investigators
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located vincent robideau kathleen's
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co-worker and neighbor who disappeared
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the same weekend she was murdered
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he had gone back to
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galveston where he was from
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and got a job there in as a nurse with a
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local hospital
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because he had a fight with his
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boyfriend
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and therefore he just didn't want
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anything to do with san antonio again
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robideaux was no longer a suspect
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we had hit a point where we didn't feel
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like we were going to be able to solve
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it without some
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some big break and we just did not feel
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that break would ever come
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then investigators got another tip
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kathleen's neighbor said she saw a
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suspicious person leaving kathleen's
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apartment on the same day her body had
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been found
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the neighbor actually just saw this
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red-headed lady walk up to the door and
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then a few minutes later walk away from
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the door
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was this mysterious woman
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kathleen's keller
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for two long years
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investigators searched for kathleen
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lipscomb's killer
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kathleen's family always suspected that
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her estranged husband bill was somehow
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involved
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just seven months before the murder bill
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had increased kathleen's life insurance
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to 315 thousand dollars
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the family turned to a private
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investigator tom bevins for help
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bevins examined all of the personal
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items from kathleen's apartment
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in her diary
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evans found two items of interest
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the first
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was an unusual reference it said
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baseball tournament
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shannon gilbert there
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when i first came across the name
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shannon gilbert i didn't know what to
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make of it it was it was obviously a
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name i had never seen or never heard of
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and so
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my question was why did
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kathleen write it down obviously it
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meant something to her
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a background check revealed that gilbert
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was in the air force with kathleen's
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husband bill
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and there were rumors the two were
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having a sexual affair
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bevins went to visit shannon gilbert
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she said is this about bill lipscombe we
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said yes ma'am it is and she says i will
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need an attorney and at that point i
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knew i had something
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bevins found another interesting entry
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in kathleen's diary it said
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numerous calls and nights out
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passing information about wap's testing
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bill has all questions for the test
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waps stands for weighted airman
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promotion test which all military
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personnel must pass in order to gain
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promotion
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kathleen's entry suggested that her
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estranged husband bill
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had cheated
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bill lipscombe had been promoted faster
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than any other master sergeant in air
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force history
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this entry possibly explained why
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[Music]
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since these cheating allegations
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involved the air force dr charles
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mcdowell joined the investigation as
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part of the united states air force
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office of special investigations
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if you have a related peripheral crime
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which in its own respect i guess was
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serious enough but certainly doesn't
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compare to a murder case
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that gives you a venue of access
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that makes it easier to get closer to
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your subject
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while reviewing the crime scene photos
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dr mcdowell made an important discovery
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the positioning of the body and the
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context of how it was found suggested to
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me
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that the scene had been staged in order
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to convey an impression that this was a
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rape murder and this is and this is
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where the victim wound up and it didn't
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have a ring of authenticity to it
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within
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30 45 minutes of reviewing the evidence
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he told us the bill did it
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bill was actually the murderer where we
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had all at that point thought he just
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paid someone to do it
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furthermore mcdowell believed kathleen's
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crossed legs revealed the body had been
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stored
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in a small cramped space after death
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when rigor mortis set in
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mcdowell also suspected that someone
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other than the killer had dumped the
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body
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that's because killers who know their
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victims tend to covered the body or
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concealed the victim's face
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which wasn't done in this case
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that became extremely important because
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if you have multiple players in a crime
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you have better opportunities for
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identifying
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first of all for identifying who they
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are and then for playing one off against
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the other
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and kathleen's daughter now nine years
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old revealed another piece of new
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information
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she said to me grandma who do you think
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kill my mother
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or my mama
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and i said i don't know who do you think
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killed your mama and she told me
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my daddy did because
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he wasn't where he said he was that
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night
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the children now revealed they were with
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their father's best friend tony barrello
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who had taken them out for dinner on the
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night their mother was killed
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and later that same night
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the children said they woke up and
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discovered their father was not home and
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his car was gone
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[Music]
00:13:10
i remember asking tom evans one day
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what do they want a picture with his
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hands around her neck
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to me we had so much evidence that was
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pointing to him and we kept getting told
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no it's not enough it's not enough
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i was like you know there wasn't anybody
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there to take a picture for you
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bevins then requested forensic testing
00:13:29
of the biological evidence collected
00:13:31
during kathleen's autopsy to determine
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the identity of the person kathleen had
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been with
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before her death
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inexplicably in the two years since the
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murder the sample had been mislabeled
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then mishandled
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forensic testing was no longer possible
00:13:53
prosecutors needed more than just
00:13:55
circumstantial evidence to corroborate
00:13:58
the children's story
00:14:06
kathleen lipscombe's family hired a
00:14:09
private investigator to help solve her
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murder
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an entry in kathleen's diary suggested
00:14:16
that her estranged husband bill had
00:14:18
cheated on his military promotion tests
00:14:21
and that kathleen knew it
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in addition the divorce proceedings
00:14:26
between bill and kathleen had been
00:14:29
bitter bill wanted custody of the
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children
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and kathleen wasn't about to let that
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happen
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was it possible
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that kathleen had been using that
00:14:40
information as blackmail in her custody
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battle
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she knew it and
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he knew that it would bust him so that's
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that's the button she used i mean she
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pushed it and he told her you know you
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can't do this because if you do
00:14:55
you're going to end up on a cold slab
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at the crime scene
00:15:00
kathleen's clothing was neatly rolled
00:15:03
suggesting someone with military
00:15:05
training dumped the body
00:15:08
the only other military person around
00:15:10
bill lipscomb's home that weekend was
00:15:13
tony barrello
00:15:15
months after the crime
00:15:16
barello had been dishonorably discharged
00:15:19
from the air force
00:15:21
when questioned
00:15:22
he was eager to talk
00:15:24
he said he would go to church he could
00:15:26
hear god telling him confess confess
00:15:29
your sins
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and
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that's what changed tony
00:15:36
tony barrello immediately acknowledged
00:15:38
that he had dumped kathleen's body in
00:15:40
the field just as dr mcdowell suspected
00:15:44
and barello said
00:15:46
that bill lipscomb was the killer
00:15:52
he also confirmed something else
00:15:55
that kathleen's body was stored in a
00:15:57
cedar chest which explained why her legs
00:16:00
were folded when rigor mortis set in
00:16:04
surprisingly tony barrello still had the
00:16:07
chest he said bill lipscomb asked him to
00:16:10
dispose of it after the murder but for
00:16:12
some reason tony kept it
00:16:15
forensic scientists found a tiny stain
00:16:19
on the bottom of the chest
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testing confirmed
00:16:23
that it was kathleen's blood
00:16:24
[Music]
00:16:27
tony barrello met with bill lipscomb
00:16:29
while wearing a hidden microphone
00:16:32
but he didn't say anything incriminating
00:16:35
so investigators devised another
00:16:38
strategy
00:16:40
this was an event that was a consequence
00:16:42
of a marriage that went bad there was a
00:16:44
tremendous amount of anger there was a
00:16:46
tremendous amount of hostility i wanted
00:16:48
to see if i could
00:16:50
feel that hostility so i could
00:16:52
understand it and understand his
00:16:54
reaction to it
00:16:56
and then develop an investigative
00:16:57
methodology that would counter that and
00:16:59
deal with his own psychology
00:17:02
the osi made sure that bill lipscomb
00:17:05
knew he was being investigated
00:17:07
i wanted him to hear footsteps that
00:17:09
weren't there i wanted him to have that
00:17:11
feeling in the pit of the stomach every
00:17:13
time the phone rang i wanted him to
00:17:14
worry about whether today was going to
00:17:16
be the day that he heard the knock on
00:17:18
the door
00:17:19
i wanted to raise his level of anxiety
00:17:22
eventually bill's former girlfriend
00:17:24
shannon gilbert admitted that bill once
00:17:27
confided to her that he planned to kill
00:17:30
kathleen
00:17:32
and investigators let lipscom know
00:17:35
that both gilbert and barello were
00:17:38
cooperating
00:17:39
bill lipscomb was playing mind games
00:17:41
with us and we were playing mind games
00:17:42
with him
00:17:44
after weeks of these psychological
00:17:46
tactics dr mcdowell brought bill
00:17:49
lipscomb in for questioning
00:17:52
dr mcdowell vividly remembers the
00:17:54
exchange
00:17:55
of all the ways this had to end i don't
00:17:57
understand
00:17:58
why it had to end the way it did
00:18:01
why did you kill her and he said
00:18:04
i don't know why i killed her
00:18:05
but then he immediately caught himself
00:18:07
and leaned forward and crossed his arms
00:18:08
and said
00:18:10
i did not kill my wife
00:18:14
but we had him
00:18:16
three of us within the sheriff's office
00:18:18
tried to get in to get in on the same
00:18:20
level as bill and get him to break and
00:18:22
we couldn't do it we could not do it
00:18:26
prosecutors believe kathleen threatened
00:18:28
to expose bill's cheating on the
00:18:30
military exams if he tried to get
00:18:32
custody of the children
00:18:35
and with that
00:18:37
bill sought revenge
00:18:42
the day of the murder
00:18:43
bill asked tony barrello to take the
00:18:45
children to dinner
00:18:50
then he called kathleen asking her to
00:18:53
pick up the children earlier than
00:18:55
planned
00:19:01
when kathleen arrived and noticed the
00:19:04
children missing the two argued
00:19:06
kids
00:19:08
they wanted to go to mcdonald's so
00:19:13
and at some point
00:19:14
bill strangled her to death
00:19:21
bill stored the body in a chest until
00:19:23
nightfall
00:19:25
kathleen's blood was found in the chest
00:19:31
once the children were asleep
00:19:33
tony barrello dumped kathleen's body in
00:19:36
the field trying to make it appear to be
00:19:39
a sex crime
00:19:41
but the positioning of the body
00:19:43
and the fact the body was uncovered
00:19:45
revealed the truth
00:19:47
that someone other than the killer was
00:19:49
involved
00:19:53
but what about the red hairs on
00:19:56
kathleen's clothing
00:19:58
i believe the hairs were planted uh by
00:20:00
bill lipscombe or his partner one of the
00:20:02
two to make it look
00:20:03
throw naturally throw us off to go
00:20:05
looking for someone else
00:20:07
investigators later identified the woman
00:20:10
who was seen leaving kathleen's
00:20:11
apartment after her murder
00:20:14
she was a co-worker who had gone to
00:20:16
check on kathleen when she didn't show
00:20:18
up for work bill lipscomb pled guilty to
00:20:22
his wife's murder to avoid the death
00:20:24
penalty
00:20:25
he was sentenced to life in prison
00:20:30
in return for his cooperation
00:20:33
tony barrello avoided prosecution
00:20:36
no charges were brought against shannon
00:20:38
gilbert who changed her name
00:20:40
and is now
00:20:42
in the federal witness protection
00:20:43
program
00:20:46
prosecutors do not believe
00:20:48
kathleen's boyfriend dr david pearl had
00:20:51
anything to do with the crime
00:20:55
forensic pathology forensic psychology
00:20:58
and crime scene reconstruction
00:21:01
helped solve
00:21:02
a very complicated case
00:21:06
one thing that you really do need to
00:21:07
include is that this was a very complex
00:21:08
investigation it involved a very large
00:21:11
number of people and a tremendous amount
00:21:12
of careful coordination and
00:21:14
orchestration i feel kind of guilty
00:21:16
because you're interviewing me
00:21:18
people
00:21:19
who commit crime think that they're very
00:21:21
very bright
00:21:23
and that the rest of us out here that
00:21:25
try to solve crimes or work on crimes or
00:21:27
involved with law enforcement are not
00:21:29
very bright
00:21:30
most often it's the other way around
00:21:33
[Music]
00:22:03
you
