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[Music]
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former F1 driver champion in 2016. He's
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getting into the venture business.
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Please welcome Nico. They started the
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season with 20 drivers and they would
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end the season with only 18 of them
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left. Wow. What was the craziest
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you've ever been involved in? Well, my
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my rival was my teammates. So,
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unfortunately, it really becomes like an
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enemy in a way. What were your first few
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deals? 11 laps, for example. Holy
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Good for you.
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This used to be an extremely dangerous
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sport. You had people dying every year
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in these tiny little cars with no roll
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cages, etc. But over time, it's become
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incredibly safe. The number of people
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dying went from, you know, a couple
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dozen a year in the ' 50s, '60s, '7s,
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and now it's gotten incredibly safe. How
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scary is it to drive in those cars? And
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how do you get over that fear of death?
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First of all, hello everybody. That's a
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pretty That's a pretty intense start to
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the to the conversation. I just show
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Good job interviewing Jacob. World team
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world best. I I I got to get right to
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it. It's like set the mood. How are you
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still alive?
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How are you? Why haven't you died yet,
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Nico? I looked at that car. Justify
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yourself. Why is there no canopy on it?
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Why are your head exposed? It's so crazy
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what you're doing or what you did. So,
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no, you're absolutely right. And I know
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um better than most people also because
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my father actually was a Formula 1
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racer. Yeah. And he was racing champion.
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And a champion. I didn't want to say but
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yes, he was also a world champion. But
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you you were sorry I asked you
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backstage. You're one of only two
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fatherson world champions of all time.
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That's true. Pretty incredible. Which is
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very special. So I mean your dad's out
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there racing. You're at home with mom I
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assume. This has got to be terrifying to
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watch your dad do this. So at in his day
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they started the season with 20 drivers
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and they would end the season with only
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18 of them left. So it was a 10% chance
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more or less that you wouldn't make it
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through the season which is just that's
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crazy. Wow. I mean what then if you do
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an 8-year career like what are your
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odds? Like that's not looking very good.
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So there to your point. Yeah. Yeah. It
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was a death every 100,000 miles. Now
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it's a death every 67 million miles. I
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was very lucky because by the time I
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came in they had carbon fiber chassis.
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Um they had roll they have a roll hoop
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now you know and this this protection
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this halo around your head which
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recently saved a couple of lives in the
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last 5 years cuz Maxappen who's now the
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the the four-time world champion at the
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moment. He landed on Lewis Hamilton's
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head in Italy with the full car and it
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was this halo that saved Lewis
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Hamilton's life. So, we're very very
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lucky how the sport has progressed um
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with the safety. How did you start
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drive? How old were you? Because um I
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didn't realize yesterday I go into the
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suite that we have and they say this kid
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is 18 years old as a driver. I had no
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idea that kids that young were driving.
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How old were you when you started and at
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what point did you start to become
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competitive? So, it's a bit like with
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with every sport that you have to start
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very very young. I started I was six,
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started go-karting I was six and then
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racing 10 years old. Now they start
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racing at year at when they're 8 years
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old. So Antonelli, who was on pole
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position yesterday, the 18year-old, uh
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he started racing he was eight. He was
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in my go-karting team when he was 12. So
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I know him very very well and he is a
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generational talent, but it's very early
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for him cuz he's only 18. And he he took
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over the car of the greatest of all
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time. Lewis Hamilton left Ferrari, left
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Mercedes to go to Ferrari. and Antonelli
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took this car from Lewis Hamilton. That
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is insane pressure. Answer this question
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if you could. You said generation. I'll
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try I'll try my best. So if we had to
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design some kind of a model you could
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you define the
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features that he had when he was six,
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seven or eight years old that could have
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predicted how good it was? Like is it
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the Metaclorian? Like so is it the Well,
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Anakin Skywalker was really good. I
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don't know.
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Nico specialist on Star Wars lore and
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anyway the metacloran to find the do you
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think that you could design something
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where people kids could come and take
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some kind of test you look at your
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reflexes or your you know your eye
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twitch speed or the way your brain works
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and is there a pattern do you think that
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is genetically
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predisposes some people to just be
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exceptional? So we've not come to that
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point yet that we actually go through
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such tests. But I think there are a
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couple of things that would that would
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kind of satisfy that and one is your
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speed of processing because in a race
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car you're going at 220 mph and you have
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so many inputs flying at you and not
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only visual also sensual. Yeah.
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Everything and also sound um with the
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engine and everything and you have to
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process that so rapidly. How did you
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train for that? Um I even had a uh a
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computer program which I developed just
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for myself actually where I would have
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all these different inputs. So uh audio,
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touch, tactile had like a thing around
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here um and and even then visual on the
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computer and I would be catching these
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inputs like and trying to break my
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record and the faster I would go the
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faster the program would go. Um so I was
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trying to develop these kind of things
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that to train my brain to move faster
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and react. reaction time is the key
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skill set of a driver. It's one of the
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ones. Is it also being courageous and
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like something with your amydala where
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like you don't have fear? There's that
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certainly. Yeah. Although I would say
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that I am actually someone who's quite
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fearful. Um and but when you're in it,
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you kind of also get used to things.
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Yeah. And you start to feel quite safe
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in the car nowadays. Um because I'm not
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a crazy adrenaline junkie unlike most
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other drivers actually out there like
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someone you find that they are
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adrenaline junkies. Yeah like someone
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like first tappen is fearless like
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completely um or even Hamilton you know
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they're proper quite nutcases. Um so the
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paths are a little different for
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everyone. Yeah, there's different
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characters to the personality type.
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There is a then of course there's hand
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eye coordination. So to your point,
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Chamath, for young kids, probably
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there's a high chance that you put a
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tennis racket in their hand, they'll
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also be pretty good, very very quickly.
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And it's a similar set of skills. Can we
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shift and talk a little bit about the
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business of Formula 1. I mean, we were
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talking backstage before the show a
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little bit and you shared some of the
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anecdotes about some of the valuations
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and what's happened over the last
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decade, decade and a half. maybe you
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can, you know, just kind of paint a
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picture for us on how this has evolved
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as kind of a business and where things
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sit today, where they're where they're
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headed and what's driven that. Yeah. So,
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um I'm a venture capitalist myself and
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that's why I'm very interested in the
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business side of uh of sport and F1 has
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gone through such an incredible
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inflection and there's a couple of
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factors that have come into play. They
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brought in budget caps for the teams. So
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the teams were spending just on sha on
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their car development like north of 200
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million a year and now it's like limited
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to 130 million a year just for the
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chassis itself not excluding engine
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drivers and top personnel. $130 million
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on how many cars is that like for a well
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there's 10 teams. Yeah. No, but is the
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13 cars? Two race cars per year. Per
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year. But that's just the chassis. You
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then have the engine which is another 70
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million. You then have the top driver
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who takes 50 million a year or 100. No,
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100. No, that was the verse stopen rumor
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to go. Yeah. Plus marketing plus plus
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you get to maybe 70 80. Yeah. So
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fielding a team is how much? Fielding a
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team is around uh you get close to 300
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million. Wow. Yeah. But you're saying
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that the budget cap allowed everything
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to kind of So the budget cap brought in
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this cap for developing the chassis to
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130. Um then suddenly Netflix also came
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in and Netflix has just made the sport
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so much more popular. It's
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unbelievable. Really changed the land.
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Just in the US you've gone from in a
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couple last couple of like six years 20
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million fans to like 50 million fans.
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It's more than doubled only in the US
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alone. What do you think Netflix did?
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Right. So Netflix the owners of F1 are
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Liberty. Yeah. Which is a US right. It's
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a US-based uh company and they did very
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well. They opened up social media. The
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new generation of drivers are really
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social media savvy and are are like the
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fan base is 40% women in America. How
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many women here today are F1 fans?
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Loads. There we go. Okay. Not too bad.
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Um,
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are all the drivers as good-looking as
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you or No. No. I don't want to go into
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that kind of Don't be to yourself in
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Miami. So, the audience blew up. The
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audience is has blown up. And you asked
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me what did they get right?
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So, what did they get right? The Netflix
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show, for those of you who have seen it,
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it's like a reality TV show. It's not
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just a sports documentary like, hey,
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this guy won here, but they go, they
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managed to capture these personas behind
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the scenes and you really get to see the
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human beings behind the sport and that's
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very special. and they tried to
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replicate it in other sports like I
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think golf and tennis and it didn't work
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out as well because I think they got a
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little bit lucky also that here quite a
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few characters allowed them and
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completely opened up and allowed Netflix
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to capture the real intense
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behind-the-scenes moment and it's just
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fascinating to follow. Yeah. Um, so
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that's what we're before if you come in
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as an outsider, I had this experience
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like what team are you, you know, who
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you support like I'm not really sure,
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but once you get to know the
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personalities, you have a vested
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interest, you have a history, there's
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something that you can contextualize.
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Let me just end on the on the business
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part. Yes. Um, so teams like 10 years
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ago, F1 teams were like worth $150
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million. Yeah. And they would lose 50
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million a year. And now the top teams go
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for five to six billion dollars 10 years
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later. It's like eye watering. It's
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incredible. Each other on the when
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you're driving the race, you try to like
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Yeah. bump into each other, you know.
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100%. It's part of the game. Yeah. You
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have to unfortunately. Explain cuz I'm a
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neoight. I don't understand it. And I I
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see like once in a while these NASCAR
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guys pull over, they get out, they throw
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their helmets at each other, you know,
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they get really upset. They seem like
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but they seem like hillbillies. You guys
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seem like a bunch of Europeans
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and like you guys seem like you're
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fancy, like a little more elegant. What
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What do you guys do? Do you guys like
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spray with Cleico on each other or
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something? Like how do you guys mess
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with each other? Nico didn't watch. So
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the the word we had one guy pushed it
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was first stop and pushed the other guy
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and he got like one week of community
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service. So uh that was a that was as
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far as it went. That's as far as the
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physical but when you're in the car.
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Yeah. It's fierce. It's fierce. So take
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us through like what was the craziest
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you've ever been involved in
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altercationwise? Well, my my rival was
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my teammate. My rival was Louis Lewis
00:11:03
Hamilton at the time. We were both
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racing for Mercedes. Any Lewis Hamilton
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fans here today? A little bit. Okay.
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Send me here. Good. Actually, Nico, can
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you talk about that in that period? He's
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so dominant, but the car is so dominant
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and then you win. What is it like where
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you're teammates with your biggest
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competitor? Like what is that dynamic
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like? That psychological dynamic? It's
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Are you friends? Are you guys friends or
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So with Lewis Hamilton, we were actually
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best friends when we were 14 years old.
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We grew up racing together in the same
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team. Best friends, but when you get to
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F1, it's just so intense and so much is
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at stake. And if it's just the two of
00:11:43
you racing for race wins every single
00:11:45
time, it you can't stand him. You hate
00:11:48
him. Yeah. It goes into hating. Yeah.
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Hate. I can see the content. Do you talk
00:11:53
during the week or you don't even really
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interact? No, you don't interact much.
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So, unfortunately, it really becomes an
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like an enemy in a way, you know, and
00:12:01
internally in your own team. Yeah. It's
00:12:04
a horrible dynamic cuz also even your
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the rest of the team then need to start
00:12:09
to be neutral. They can't take any
00:12:11
sides. So, even when you win, it's not
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like everybody's like leaning in with
00:12:16
you. It's really a tough situation. So
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it's like two people in the same project
00:12:21
who can't stand each other. Freedberg
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yet they keep but you keep working
00:12:28
together. How much of that um fed your
00:12:32
decision to retire literally days after
00:12:34
you won the That was a little I think
00:12:35
that caught some people off guard. Can
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you just tell us what happened? I was in
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my prime and I won that championship
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which for me was my dream come true and
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it was extremely intense. Thank you. It
00:12:46
was extremely Thanks, Mom. I got one I
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got one clap from my mom sitting in the
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very big fan.
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Way to go, mom.
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Um, yeah, it was extremely intense and
00:13:00
for me it just felt like the right
00:13:02
moment to I had a young daughter at
00:13:04
home. She was one year old. Family um
00:13:06
just felt like the right moment. I was
00:13:08
in one piece to your comment it being
00:13:10
dangerous and I just decided rationally
00:13:12
you know I never wanted to exit on the
00:13:14
way down. That's something I definitely
00:13:16
wanted to avoid. I wanted to exit at the
00:13:18
top and that was my moment and and I
00:13:20
decided to pull the trigger. Has there
00:13:22
been a good ROI for the car companies
00:13:25
that that have invested in F1 in that
00:13:29
all this money that they spend other
00:13:31
than the notoriety? Are they inventing
00:13:33
things that we all use and see and
00:13:35
interact with day-to-day in our own
00:13:37
daily driving experience or not really?
00:13:39
So, you probably will be driving an AMG
00:13:41
at some point. I had an AMG at one
00:13:44
point. There you go. Um, and there is
00:13:46
tech from the F1 team in there now.
00:13:48
Okay. From the for the hybrid from
00:13:50
Mercedes. Yes.
00:13:52
Hybrid and yeah, every every car car
00:13:55
company will be benefiting. But the
00:13:56
return on investment is also in terms of
00:13:58
marketing. Mercedes there's a calculated
00:14:01
return on investment which is 2 billion
00:14:04
for their brand annually and they don't
00:14:07
actually invest money anymore because
00:14:08
the team is profitable now and highly
00:14:10
profitable like these teams make 200
00:14:12
$300 million in profit every year. So
00:14:15
they now have $6 billion valuations. Is
00:14:18
have we kind of peaked from your point
00:14:20
of view? Is the market and the valuation
00:14:22
curve still being climbed? There's still
00:14:25
a lot of uh there's still a lot of
00:14:26
upside at the moment because this growth
00:14:28
has just happened in the last 5 years.
00:14:30
Yeah. And there's still I mean even
00:14:32
America there's still loads of growth
00:14:33
potential. More races. There's
00:14:35
licensing. The sport hasn't really even
00:14:37
tapped into that yet. Do you think
00:14:39
there's something about sports that are
00:14:43
kind of more tuned to the way our brains
00:14:45
now operate in a social media world,
00:14:48
like a fast-paced world? Like, you know,
00:14:50
golf became Liv. I mean, Liv really kind
00:14:52
of changed the the face of golf. There's
00:14:54
now baseball's obviously dead. I mean,
00:14:56
MLB has been on the decline for years in
00:14:58
the United States. Not saying anything
00:15:00
negative about baseball. I'm just saying
00:15:01
that the viewership is going down. No,
00:15:04
no, no, no. You're you're But there's
00:15:06
also these conversations about
00:15:07
basketball, the NBA. I'll tell you this
00:15:09
crazy anecdote. I I was a co-owner of
00:15:11
the Warriors. I sold two years ago. A
00:15:14
friend of mine, friend of ours is in the
00:15:16
market for a sports team and he went to
00:15:19
Europe to look at a bunch of soccer
00:15:20
teams and then we were all having dinner
00:15:23
and his bankers produced this study that
00:15:27
showed exactly this problem which is
00:15:28
young people their attention span is
00:15:31
shrinking. As it shrinks there are
00:15:33
certain sports they just cannot watch
00:15:34
anymore. And it's totally correlated the
00:15:37
negative viewership in baseball, the
00:15:39
increase in the use of clips. So people
00:15:41
are willing to watch baseball clips.
00:15:43
They will not watch a baseball game to
00:15:44
save their life. People will watch
00:15:46
basketball clips. They won't watch
00:15:47
basketball. The NBA's moving to clips.
00:15:49
Yeah. And so it's this weird
00:15:50
construction, but in some ways F1 is
00:15:53
very set up for this already naturally,
00:15:55
right? Do people don't really watch the
00:15:57
whole sport as much as they want to
00:15:59
watch clips. I'm guessing
00:16:02
it's not
00:16:04
that hour. How long is this race on
00:16:06
sight? It's not that long. It's never
00:16:09
been and it's not that long. I mean
00:16:11
that's the thing about but you guys also
00:16:12
have a lot of a lot of data telemetry
00:16:14
like you can feed that kind of anxious
00:16:16
mind and there's no breaks it just goes
00:16:19
I'm not I'm not sure if you have a point
00:16:21
there unfortunately but um but pretty
00:16:25
diplomat I was just trying to move the
00:16:26
conversation no what I can say is that
00:16:28
our sport has like the highest
00:16:30
engagement rates across all sports even
00:16:32
comparing to NBA and everything um but
00:16:35
why is that I think there's just a huge
00:16:37
hype at the moment and maybe yes maybe
00:16:40
okay Maybe a little bit. It is
00:16:41
fast-pacing. There's there's incredible
00:16:43
action scenes like thrilling action.
00:16:46
There's huge crashes. Did you not want
00:16:48
to get in the business given your
00:16:50
knowledge and your experience? You
00:16:51
didn't want to be in the because you you
00:16:52
now have transitioned into venture
00:16:54
capital. How did you make that decision
00:16:56
versus working in the business of
00:16:58
Formula 1? Oh, great question. Um
00:17:00
because um yeah, that's a good qu. So,
00:17:03
in Formula 1, what jobs would have been
00:17:05
left for me now after driving would be
00:17:07
for example running a team. But running
00:17:10
a team is 24/7. Like you need full
00:17:12
commitment. You need to move to the UK.
00:17:15
All the teams are in the UK. It's a full
00:17:17
life dedication. And I've been I've done
00:17:19
that. Been there, done that. Now I want
00:17:22
more freedom in my life to define my my
00:17:25
calendar and everything and be at home
00:17:27
more. And so that job for example would
00:17:30
not be a possibility and not something I
00:17:31
want to do. And then beyond that, yeah,
00:17:33
you can be a driver manager, but even
00:17:35
there you need full commitment. So tell
00:17:37
tell us about this transition then to
00:17:39
tech and investing and venture and what
00:17:42
was that journey and what attracted you
00:17:44
to that? I was always inspired by people
00:17:46
like Elon Musk who obviously you talking
00:17:48
about uh before and those achievements
00:17:51
that you have this idea and then you
00:17:52
achieve something which has impacts like
00:17:54
millions of lives. I just found that
00:17:56
fascinating. Um so I I always just
00:17:59
wanted to pursue that path. So I started
00:18:00
investing as an angel investor and now a
00:18:02
second. Oh take it easy. Angel
00:18:04
investing.
00:18:05
What are you doing after the show? Did
00:18:07
you ever read the book Angel? It's a
00:18:09
phenomenal book in 12 languages. Yeah,
00:18:11
I'll sign a copy book called Angel. It's
00:18:13
84 pages long. What were your first few
00:18:15
deals? Uh 11 Labs, for example. Um Oh,
00:18:19
good for you. Yeah, that's uh that's
00:18:22
gone really well. Um how did you find
00:18:24
that? Yeah. How did that How did that
00:18:26
come about? I mean, I'm really putting
00:18:28
an effort into this community as well.
00:18:30
I'm spending a lot of time in in Silicon
00:18:32
Valley meeting everybody and and also
00:18:34
connecting to the European corporate
00:18:36
landscape. So I'm bringing customers,
00:18:38
revenues, connecting, building bridges
00:18:40
cuz there's a unique angle that I can
00:18:42
bring, you know, thanks to my sports
00:18:44
past. So I've just built my way into it
00:18:46
and built a reputation and then and then
00:18:48
you start getting the opportunities.
00:18:49
What themes, Nico, have you invested in
00:18:51
that today you would not invest knowing
00:18:53
what you know today? Not the ones that
00:18:55
are Yeah, that's um the the flying
00:18:58
taxis, the vitals, for example. Um yeah,
00:19:02
Germany was leading the way on those.
00:19:04
You have Joby, for example, Joby
00:19:06
Aviation, which is probably currently
00:19:08
best positioned in the US. Um but
00:19:11
Germany was leading the way with two two
00:19:13
horses in the race and and both of them
00:19:15
have run into trouble. One is bankrupt,
00:19:17
one was both bankrupt, I think. Um, so
00:19:20
that's something that then in hindsight
00:19:21
you of course if you had uh read the
00:19:23
book, you would have known hardware is
00:19:25
hard, right? I would have avoided that.
00:19:28
You should have gotten that chapter. Get
00:19:30
a highlighter out. Hardware is hard.
00:19:32
Hardware is even harder now with the
00:19:34
tariffs. I'm hearing now like I have a
00:19:37
um I invested also in a cyber escooter
00:19:39
here in New York called Infinite Machine
00:19:41
and now with the tariffs because the
00:19:42
supply chain is so concentrated on in in
00:19:46
China um it's it's just it's a complete
00:19:49
mess. Yeah. Nico, what about the
00:19:51
political landscape in Europe? There was
00:19:53
a pretty important election in Germany.
00:19:55
It seemed to kind of go down the middle.
00:19:57
What goes of Europe? What's happening in
00:19:59
Europe? The investability of Europe, the
00:20:01
ability to do business in Europe. What
00:20:02
do European industrial businesses do?
00:20:04
There's a ton of skill. There's a ton of
00:20:07
cash. When you talk to those folks, what
00:20:09
do you tell them? I know you're very,
00:20:10
very bearish on Europe. You wouldn't put
00:20:12
a dollar there, but uh is that correct?
00:20:16
Well, no, for sweaters and wine, he puts
00:20:18
much more than a dollar. That's true.
00:20:21
It's pretty prolific. It's a really good
00:20:23
question. I actually think industrials
00:20:25
chargers, right? Yes. Industrials, I
00:20:27
would industrials, I think there's
00:20:30
tremendous skill. Yeah. outside of
00:20:32
industrials I think it's hard. Yeah. So
00:20:33
we have the we have the problems with
00:20:35
regulatory frameworks being way too
00:20:38
cumbersome. Um we have the geographic
00:20:41
fragmentation in Europe which is very
00:20:43
different to the US. Um politically it's
00:20:46
it's really I mean quite in a bad place
00:20:49
at the moment and so yeah I understand
00:20:52
but at the same time as you said talent
00:20:54
density is insane. The universities are
00:20:57
some of the best in the world. So that's
00:20:59
where our hope is in the next generation
00:21:02
that's coming now. Stick to the Nordics.
00:21:04
And the Nordics are very powerful. Yes.
00:21:06
But
00:21:08
Spotify a little bit. There's a lot of
00:21:11
hope still. Yeah. Hey, what's your daily
00:21:12
driver? Daily driver is a Porsche. A
00:21:16
Porsche. And then when you're with your
00:21:17
with your with your daughter, I don't
00:21:18
know how old she is, but you ever like
00:21:20
pull some tricks and like does she like,
00:21:22
"Hey, Dad." No. She shouts, "Drive
00:21:24
slowly, daddy." Really? I'm not I'm not
00:21:26
allowed to drive fast with her. No.
00:21:28
terrified, which is fine. Which is fine.
00:21:30
You you don't want her to get into the
00:21:31
family business. No, no, no. What? Okay.
00:21:34
What are some investments that you're
00:21:36
really excited by? Beyond uh 11 Labs, um
00:21:39
there would be Applied Intuition,
00:21:41
another one. Oh, great business where
00:21:42
I'm uh where I'm in. That's a really
00:21:43
really interesting company. It's a
00:21:45
company that supplies software primarily
00:21:47
to all the legacy car manufacturers that
00:21:50
have not managed this transition to
00:21:52
being software first like Tesla has
00:21:54
shown the way. Um and this It's like
00:21:57
scale AI for automotive in some ways,
00:22:00
right? For part of the business. Yeah.
00:22:02
Nico, you're going to fit right in. Have
00:22:04
you learned to play poker yet? I'm a
00:22:05
good poker player. You're a good poker
00:22:06
player. We'll see you on Thursday.
00:22:08
Excuse me. Hold on, Nico. Now you
00:22:14
dec. Thanks for coming out. Thanks to
00:22:18
our new bestie, Nico Rosberg, for
00:22:20
joining us in Miami for F1. And thanks
00:22:22
to you, the audience, for tuning in. If
00:22:24
you want to come to our next event, it's
00:22:26
the All-In Summit in Los Angeles, fourth
00:22:29
year for All-In Summit. Go to
00:22:32
all-in.com/events to apply. A very
00:22:34
special thanks to our new partner, OKX,
00:22:36
the new money app. OKX was the sponsor
00:22:39
of the McLaren F1 team, which won the
00:22:42
race in Miami. Thanks to Haidider and
00:22:44
his team, an amazing partner and an
00:22:46
amazing team. We really enjoyed spending
00:22:48
time with you. And OKX launched their
00:22:50
new crypto exchange here in the US. If
00:22:53
you love All-In, go check them out. And
00:22:54
a special thanks to our friends at
00:22:56
Circle. They're the team behind USDC.
00:23:00
Yes, your favorite stable coin in the
00:23:02
world. USDC is a fully backed digital
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It's built for speed, safety, and scale.
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all your stable coin needs. And special
00:23:24
thanks to my friends including Shane
00:23:26
over at Poly Market, Google Cloud,
00:23:28
Salana, and BVNK. We couldn't have done
00:23:32
it without y'all. Thank you so much.
00:23:35
Let your winners ride.
00:23:42
Rainman said, "We open sourced it to the
00:23:44
fans and they've just gone crazy with
00:23:46
it." Queen of
00:23:50
[Music]
00:23:55
Besties are gone.
00:23:58
That is my dog taking a notice in your
00:24:00
driveway.
00:24:03
Oh man, my habitasher will meet me up.
00:24:06
We should all just get a room and just
00:24:07
have one big huge orgy cuz they're all
00:24:09
just useless. It's like this like sexual
00:24:11
tension that we just need to release
00:24:12
somehow.
00:24:16
Wet your feet. Be your feet. What? We
00:24:19
need to get Mercury's
00:24:21
[Music]
00:24:27
back. I'm going all in.
