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that was perfect [ __ ] rocked it bro
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right is
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[Music]
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great hey
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everybody Welcome to Austin welcome
00:00:22
everybody that's my friend Dave Fred
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Bert thanks for having me how you doing
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brother welcome to Texas it's a little
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light we're missing couple friends here
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tonight we have some new friends we got
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some awesome friends and we wanted to do
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something around this sort of New Media
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Creator economy it's something you know
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we're experiencing with the podcast and
00:00:43
um that's obviously having a big impact
00:00:45
on society right A lot of people say
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this was the podcast
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election the big media companies from
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journalism Fox News CNN to the big
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platforms Netflix Amazon Hulu
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to Disney and others are kind of
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rearranging their pawns on the chess
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board based on and responding to what's
00:01:09
going on and so we thought it'd be
00:01:10
really interesting to hear about some of
00:01:12
the people who we think are probably the
00:01:13
smartest in the Creator economy in terms
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of building a business and how you
00:01:18
maneuver and how you play and how you
00:01:20
grow as part of that conversation today
00:01:23
you um didn't you had a Twitter account
00:01:26
when we started all in Twitter but you
00:01:28
literally had never tweeted
00:01:30
and now you've become the Sultan of
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science you're very famous any Sultan of
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science fans out
00:01:36
there awesome awesome did anybody see
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him win celebrity jeffardy you want I
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mean we're so proud of our bestie um
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yeah you have no idea
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how anxious
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ashamed hand ringing he was for 6 weeks
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he knew he won he wouldn't tell us the
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outcome cuz he knew that moth would
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gamble it and there would be like a
00:02:01
whole controversy he'd figure out a way
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to make you know a bet on it actually
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someone doesn't know how to keep their
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mouth shut but yes yeah yeah that's
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right I keep talking to chouth about
00:02:10
that
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um and then he wins and he wins but he's
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so upset at himself because he didn't
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win enough I'm going to thank our
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sponsors I mean this is what happens on
00:02:22
an average show I say about 17
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inappropriate things he goes strike cut
00:02:28
strike cut and we have to have a grand
00:02:31
negotiation after the episode where we
00:02:33
horse trade the inappropriate things
00:02:35
chth and I say and what he's going to
00:02:36
allow I don't mind when chth says
00:02:38
inappropriate things because it usually
00:02:41
doesn't involve other people it's you
00:02:42
where you kind of cross the line a
00:02:44
little bit but you know that's why they
00:02:45
tune in I have to save you from you J
00:02:48
but what has it been like in terms of
00:02:49
because we're going to talk about this
00:02:50
here A lot of people now are taking the
00:02:52
Playbook of creating audience and then
00:02:57
building companies and you were were
00:03:00
doing the production board you're
00:03:01
building a bunch of different companies
00:03:02
ohal became very successful and you said
00:03:04
hey wait I got to go all in on this so
00:03:05
to speak but you're going into it with a
00:03:08
certain amount of audience a certain
00:03:10
amount of notoriety and the ability
00:03:13
let's face it a lot of people in
00:03:15
business know you from the podcast now
00:03:17
so what's it like been being a CEO now
00:03:21
and having the Pod as like a platform
00:03:23
that's actually a great question because
00:03:25
for me I'm like not doing this podcast
00:03:27
to like build a media thing I just
00:03:28
thought it' be interesting we started
00:03:29
doing it during Co and I just kind of
00:03:31
kept doing it I don't know why I kept
00:03:32
doing it to be honest um tried to quit I
00:03:34
tried to quit like every week I wanted
00:03:35
to quit and I oh my God still con had so
00:03:38
much tension the first two years and now
00:03:40
until we got up to sign an LLC agreement
00:03:42
now it's all smooth sailing the votes
00:03:44
are What mattered it was a big well
00:03:46
actually but I think it's like a real
00:03:48
important Evolution you know we had this
00:03:50
thing going ad hoc and I was trying to
00:03:52
keep it together and you know the one
00:03:53
thing I I learned in media from in
00:03:56
gadget I asked Peter Roos who I had
00:03:58
stolen from Gizmo Nick Denton's um
00:04:01
company to come to engag they said tell
00:04:03
me the secret of why giz Moto Gawker and
00:04:06
now engaged are doing so well and he
00:04:08
said um oh the secret to blogging is
00:04:10
very simple show up every day it's
00:04:12
actually a great point and then yeah I
00:04:13
mean Jason did keep keep us showing up
00:04:15
and then it became a thing and then it's
00:04:16
like okay we should probably do
00:04:17
something legit to make this into a
00:04:20
business or make it into something
00:04:21
structural that stays alive so we did
00:04:24
but to answer your question I go to meet
00:04:27
with Farmers a lot and business
00:04:29
Executives in the agriculture industry
00:04:32
and I can't tell you how often I run
00:04:33
into someone who's like I watch your
00:04:35
podcast I'm a fan that is like Farmer
00:04:38
Joe Farmer like the other day I was in a
00:04:40
meeting um I won't reveal too much but
00:04:43
like look I mean you guys won't have any
00:04:44
idea but like some big farmer company
00:04:46
big company that does farming who you
00:04:48
would have never heard of no one in this
00:04:50
room has ever heard of and then I'm in
00:04:51
the hallway after we do this big pitch
00:04:53
and the guy pulls me aside he's like
00:04:54
gives me a fist Pub he's like love the
00:04:56
Pod I'm like it is weird it is weird and
00:05:00
then I'm like in in like another state
00:05:02
at a meeting and the COO comes out he's
00:05:04
like dude I'm a big fan of the Pod and
00:05:06
so it helps with getting uh building
00:05:09
trust it you've earned a reputation and
00:05:12
so then when I go into meetings people
00:05:14
know me because of this pod right and
00:05:17
that reduces friction I don't have to go
00:05:18
sell myself in a meeting right I'm
00:05:20
already sold and it makes business
00:05:23
easier and so for me the Pod isn't about
00:05:26
making money on the Pod as much as it is
00:05:28
like helping me in my everyday work
00:05:30
which is where I spend pretty much all
00:05:32
my time except for a couple hours a week
00:05:33
here to to contextualize that in the
00:05:35
conversation we're going to have today
00:05:37
you create an audience with your content
00:05:40
what do you do with that audience do you
00:05:42
what are you doing this for you can sell
00:05:44
ads and make money against that audience
00:05:46
you can get sponsors that you speak to
00:05:49
you know quality products that you
00:05:50
endorse and you can make more money and
00:05:52
you can either get paid cash or get some
00:05:54
Equity you can build your own product
00:05:56
and actually own it and then own all the
00:05:58
equity and participate meaning F in the
00:06:00
upside as you sell your audience your
00:06:01
product or in other cases You're
00:06:03
Building credibility You're Building um
00:06:06
which is what a lot of venture
00:06:07
capitalist did after our show I think
00:06:09
kind of became big they realize that
00:06:10
they have this opportunity to build
00:06:12
credibility with entrepreneurs so when
00:06:14
an entrepreneur shows up they're like oh
00:06:15
I want to work with you because I've
00:06:16
seen you on your podcast or investors
00:06:18
show up I want to invest with you
00:06:19
because I've seen your comments on your
00:06:21
podcast so I think there's a lot of ways
00:06:23
to think about the value of this but
00:06:24
building an audience building
00:06:26
credibility is really beneficial and you
00:06:28
can it can work out lot of ways yeah and
00:06:30
you you take it seriously um you know
00:06:33
it's it's an investment in time for you
00:06:35
uh today we've recorded a great episode
00:06:38
uh we had our first comedian on Andrew
00:06:40
Schultz um and that'll come out tomorrow
00:06:42
he was hilarious um but you had an
00:06:45
emotional moment today on the show we're
00:06:46
talking about entrepreneurship and your
00:06:48
journey and you know I I got to give you
00:06:50
a lot of credit you know you're not like
00:06:53
um a professional broadcast or whatever
00:06:55
but you prepare and you put it all out
00:06:58
there and I'm very proud of the work you
00:06:59
done and how you've evolved as a
00:07:00
broadcaster and as you know somebody on
00:07:02
the Pod I'm very very proud of you know
00:07:05
how much you've started to put out there
00:07:08
of yourself and it's not easy to do
00:07:09
because you're an introverted personal
00:07:11
Pro person I mean pretty extroverted I'm
00:07:14
like I mean yeah I mean on the MDM I'm
00:07:16
ready go party I don't know what you're
00:07:17
talking about you're the one who locked
00:07:19
yourself up in the room after maybe
00:07:21
maybe in the 9s when you were going to
00:07:22
Raves and you had a little of the molly
00:07:24
the MDMA you were different but I'm
00:07:26
saying like now you're a little bit you
00:07:28
know but I can day uh back in the day
00:07:31
it's hilarious because he's such a
00:07:33
perfectionist and every time the Pod
00:07:35
comes out chath and I just wait 60
00:07:39
minutes after the Pod that sucked right
00:07:42
producer Nick sucked right we should
00:07:43
delete it cancel it there's the worst
00:07:45
episode ever and then the Stats come out
00:07:47
oh we broke another record oh it's
00:07:48
number eight in the world oh okay look
00:07:50
the the the reality is we can always do
00:07:51
better I mean I have I am such an
00:07:54
optimist as some of my friends who are
00:07:56
here know like I just like a that was
00:07:58
[ __ ] great it was a train wreck but
00:08:00
for me it was a great train wreck um and
00:08:03
you know just so you all know we
00:08:05
couldn't do it without the audience and
00:08:07
the love that you give us and is such an
00:08:09
amazing
00:08:11
motivation especially for me like I feed
00:08:13
off the energy and when you all tell me
00:08:15
your favorite episode or a great moment
00:08:17
or you email us something where you know
00:08:20
the thing I'm probably most proud of now
00:08:22
is people are telling me they're having
00:08:24
more difficult conversations with their
00:08:27
friends while remaining friends
00:08:30
and I think that's like one of the most
00:08:31
beautiful things for me and my
00:08:33
motivation on the Pod uh is really to to
00:08:37
help give an example of how you can
00:08:40
really have a hardcore discussion learn
00:08:42
from each other appreciate each other
00:08:44
and I hope that you all take that back
00:08:45
to your poker games
00:08:47
dinners families you know it's a very
00:08:50
divided country right now there's a lot
00:08:51
of important
00:08:53
issues but friendship is worth investing
00:08:56
in I just want to give you all that as
00:08:58
like a note invest in your friends
00:09:00
invest in those hard conversations your
00:09:02
life will become so rich because of it
00:09:04
have a couple of laughs don't take it
00:09:06
all so seriously David yeah well before
00:09:08
we before we bring our uh friends out
00:09:11
Colin and Samir I'm going to just
00:09:13
quickly we do those these we don't do
00:09:15
sponsors on the show or ads on the show
00:09:17
but when we do live incredibly
00:09:18
infuriating me I want to read fine he'll
00:09:20
be fine but um God we'd have a jet by
00:09:22
now we want to pay for these we don't
00:09:24
want to pay for Live Events out of
00:09:25
pocket so we do have sponsor million
00:09:27
left on the table you'll be fine uh find
00:09:29
another Uber um so I did it's called
00:09:33
Robin it's doing
00:09:35
great so I want to say thanks to Gemini
00:09:38
um Gemini just stepped up I think we
00:09:40
just got them involved this week in
00:09:43
helping us put this uh event on in the
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I think everybody should own like low
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single digit percentage is not
00:10:11
investment they're worth I think like a
00:10:13
low single digit in Bitcoin if you lose
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it so be it if it 100x is from here
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anything's possible M gemini.com Allin
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with a $100 deposit and then function
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to over 100 lab tests which I think is
00:10:32
super interesting personally it's really
00:10:34
hard just signed up I'm doing it's hard
00:10:35
to go to your doctor and get the tests
00:10:38
you need you can sign up at function
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Health Brant they they'll tend they'll
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send a FLOTUS that's a fancy word for
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somebody who draws blood for bottom is I
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learned that from function and then you
00:10:48
can uh be like Brian Johnson my friend
00:10:49
here in the front row yeah and you could
00:10:51
live forever with function heal all in
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100 at check out to get 100 bucks credit
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and then true niagen which is a I take I
00:11:00
take it NAD plus
00:11:02
booster lots of studies very efficacious
00:11:05
so thank you to tr nen again great
00:11:07
product but those are the sponsors they
00:11:08
help pay for this let's give it up to
00:11:09
the sponsors One Time come on now very
00:11:12
good very good you want to get Colin me
00:11:14
out yeah hey um let's bring out our
00:11:16
first guest Colin Samir uh run the Colin
00:11:19
and Samir show and they are experts on
00:11:23
building content business come on out
00:11:25
Colin come on out
00:11:28
Samir wel welcome you get you get the
00:11:31
couch come sit on the couch here you see
00:11:33
brother all right sit on the couch you
00:11:35
guys are like real creators brand deal
00:11:37
look at that brand deal thanks for being
00:11:39
here I think we wanted to talk to you
00:11:41
guys a little bit about the evolution in
00:11:42
media I want to talk a little bit about
00:11:44
the ration and the Creator economy where
00:11:47
folks were putting out and tell me if
00:11:49
I'm off on this but what felt like more
00:11:51
kind of short form content it was almost
00:11:53
like a new type of media that was
00:11:54
different than traditional long form
00:11:57
media Tik Tok type content but then what
00:12:02
happened it's like folks started doing
00:12:04
podcast and the content started to eat
00:12:05
into other forms of media started to eat
00:12:08
up journalism now and eat up news media
00:12:11
and now the platforms are doing deals
00:12:14
with the independent creators to put out
00:12:16
long form content can you talk a little
00:12:17
bit about the evolution of like short
00:12:18
form long form sure I don't think you
00:12:20
can underscore the importance of the
00:12:22
YouTube app on TVs just the fact that
00:12:25
there was now a free option and you have
00:12:28
people who are in a setting where they
00:12:30
want to actually sit and consume
00:12:32
something for a longer period of time so
00:12:34
as creators started putting out longer
00:12:36
videos they started serving more ads
00:12:37
making more money investing back in
00:12:40
their channels in their shows and now
00:12:42
they can actually produce things
00:12:44
consistently they can make things better
00:12:46
they can elevate it they can make them
00:12:47
longer and that's what you're seeing now
00:12:49
I mean like 50% of our watch time is on
00:12:51
connected TV so the reach has grown
00:12:53
because of YouTube on TV yes yeah yeah
00:12:56
specifically YouTube now like when you
00:12:58
buy a new TV I just when I when I moved
00:12:59
to the ranch I got a new TV it's got
00:13:01
YouTube on the remote and you just think
00:13:03
about that as a concept and then I watch
00:13:05
my daughter's behaviors and they are
00:13:07
watching YouTube on the giant television
00:13:11
not on their iPads it's it's a really a
00:13:14
major difference and there's something
00:13:15
about I'd like you to get into is the
00:13:18
algorithm yeah versus subscribers sure
00:13:21
because I grew up in a subscriber world
00:13:24
where I thought about okay I'm going to
00:13:26
get one more subscriber and then I'll
00:13:28
have them or certain number them out of
00:13:29
10 I might keep five but they're going
00:13:31
to watch every episode but then there's
00:13:34
something that's gone on where people
00:13:36
are creating content not with the intent
00:13:38
of subscribers but with the intent of
00:13:39
getting picked up by an algorithm and
00:13:42
getting non-subscriber viewers this
00:13:43
seems like there's some tension here
00:13:46
maybe yeah I would say probably the
00:13:47
biggest creators most successful
00:13:49
creators largely have like a 70%
00:13:52
viewership base that's not subscribed to
00:13:54
them right and I yeah I would say that's
00:13:56
pretty pretty common amongst our friend
00:13:58
group and amongst the people that we we
00:14:00
work with um and I think a lot of that
00:14:03
has to do with the algorithm shift
00:14:05
towards viewer satisfaction and and
00:14:07
YouTube is a recommendations algorithm
00:14:09
so first when we first started making
00:14:11
YouTube videos if you could make a great
00:14:12
thumbnail people would click that then
00:14:15
inevitably got into clickbait where you
00:14:17
would click into a video it was really
00:14:18
short it wasn't representative of what
00:14:19
was in the thumbnail so YouTube shifted
00:14:21
their algorithm into what is called
00:14:23
viewer satisfaction which is essentially
00:14:25
gauged off of Click through rate did
00:14:27
they click on the video and then average
00:14:30
viation how long did they watch what
00:14:31
percentage of this video did they watch
00:14:33
then there's other engagement metrics
00:14:34
they like the video do they comment on
00:14:36
the video there's a lot of different
00:14:37
ways to understand satisfaction um but
00:14:40
essentially as creators every YouTube
00:14:42
Creator what they're trying to do is go
00:14:45
what video are you watching before you
00:14:47
watch my
00:14:48
video because interesting I want you to
00:14:51
click on my video after you're done with
00:14:54
that video or maybe in the middle of
00:14:55
that video so most traffic on YouTube
00:14:58
comes from suggest Ed okay so does that
00:15:00
make sense yes you have the suggested
00:15:02
along here so you're telling me people
00:15:04
are creating videos with the intention
00:15:06
of hijacking a popular video and trying
00:15:09
to get that suggested so everybody's
00:15:11
talking about I don't know pick the
00:15:13
latest thing Trump did today so or who's
00:15:17
on Joe Rogan or what Mr Beast did so now
00:15:20
I try to get one of those slots that
00:15:22
would be related to the latest Mr Beast
00:15:24
video yeah I wouldn't say that timely
00:15:26
because I think YouTube operates as a
00:15:27
catalog right like some of our videos
00:15:29
that are still picking up viewership
00:15:30
today were made four years ago so the
00:15:32
best way to do it is to build a catalog
00:15:34
that acrs viewership over time so you're
00:15:36
you're mainly looking at like subject
00:15:38
matters with high total addressable
00:15:41
markets on YouTube right like specific
00:15:43
on YouTube so that is why when you know
00:15:46
the world of Mr Beast really exploded on
00:15:48
YouTube you have a lot of people talking
00:15:50
about Mr Beast or reacting to Mr Beast
00:15:53
or going there's 200 million people to
00:15:55
tap into here who are probably watching
00:15:57
a Mr Beast video
00:15:59
uh this is fascinating because right now
00:16:01
there are people doing after Allin
00:16:03
videos where they talk and kind of drag
00:16:06
us you know a bit and they're doing
00:16:08
phenomenally well too oh they are maybe
00:16:10
we'll get into that too drag us as well
00:16:13
plenty to drag us I wouldn't call it
00:16:14
phenomenally well there's like couple
00:16:16
hundred views whatever could be the best
00:16:19
in that categ actually you could own
00:16:20
that c own that c do for Colin art and
00:16:25
the artist that this is in their brands
00:16:28
cuz you know free ber and I after a show
00:16:31
happens I talk about the moments sure
00:16:33
and freeberg is you know got that other
00:16:35
brain where he's like talking about the
00:16:37
metrics and he's wondering about the
00:16:38
wait time and the thumbs up and the
00:16:39
thumbs down who liked it I'm like I
00:16:41
don't give a [ __ ] about that there was a
00:16:42
funny moment there was this moment
00:16:44
people laughed there was this moment
00:16:45
that had emotional resonance so maybe
00:16:47
you could talk a little bit about art
00:16:48
versus Commerce ART versus algorithm ART
00:16:51
versus algorithm yeah I mean it's it's
00:16:54
difficult to create right now within a
00:16:56
vacuum right I would say even opening up
00:16:58
to Tik Tok the first couple of Tik toks
00:17:00
you see are going to show you what works
00:17:02
tot right so it's hard to create
00:17:04
something now that I know what works now
00:17:06
that I know what people will see if
00:17:08
that's the objective audience growth but
00:17:11
it's it's a true artist does not
00:17:13
necessarily care if someone watch their
00:17:15
work if one person loves my work that's
00:17:17
all that matters like but a true artist
00:17:19
doesn't always know actually what they
00:17:20
could do to get people to watch their
00:17:23
work and so we immediately know what
00:17:25
would work and so you find for a lot of
00:17:28
creators that on two ends of the
00:17:29
spectrum they're either an artist or
00:17:31
they're a distributor but to be an
00:17:33
impactful Creator you kind of actually
00:17:34
need to lean more towards distributor
00:17:36
you need to be like that programming
00:17:38
executive that's like okay well
00:17:39
Spider-Man worked let's do it again
00:17:41
let's do it again let's do it again
00:17:42
let's do it again correct we we see that
00:17:44
a lot if we change the title of the show
00:17:48
or the order order of the topics we
00:17:50
debate this a lot where it's now this
00:17:53
might be the thing that I want to talk
00:17:54
about but no one wants science Corner up
00:17:57
front because then the audience won't
00:17:58
close no I mean we
00:18:00
literally you guys think if we had
00:18:02
science Corner up front more audience
00:18:03
would click thank you but that's the
00:18:06
media business right more Trump It's
00:18:07
like got enough Trump I mean this is I
00:18:09
mean this is the tension we've had you
00:18:11
know and we're we're a um a a band not a
00:18:15
solo performer right so you have four
00:18:17
people with distinct perspectives and
00:18:20
you know sax was always of the Mind
00:18:22
what's the top story in the world uh I'm
00:18:25
trying to think about well like what's
00:18:26
the most interesting you know discussion
00:18:29
freeberg like well what's the biggest
00:18:31
breakthrough and what did we do last
00:18:33
week and you kind of and then chat's
00:18:34
like well what am I wearing and how does
00:18:37
it look what am I wearing what am I
00:18:39
wearing wearing how yeah um what did I
00:18:44
what did I consume this week you know uh
00:18:46
it's all everybody's got different
00:18:48
things there but it's kind of
00:18:49
disheartening to me to even know about
00:18:52
all this I feel like it's ruining it to
00:18:54
a certain extent for me yeah I think it
00:18:57
look there's there's tension between uh
00:18:59
creativity and strategy on these
00:19:01
platforms right because these are
00:19:02
businesses and if you zoom out and go
00:19:04
like how do media businesses work this
00:19:05
is how media businesses work sure but I
00:19:07
I think what you have to think about is
00:19:09
also choosing your platforms I think we
00:19:12
struggle because we entered into the
00:19:14
world of YouTube 15 years ago as
00:19:16
creatives as you know guys who were
00:19:17
exploring wanting to get into Hollywood
00:19:19
and saw this as a different route and
00:19:21
where we've come to as now entrepreneurs
00:19:23
is we're in the media business and
00:19:25
there's still tension where we we want
00:19:26
to express our creativity we want to do
00:19:28
cool things that we think are cool but
00:19:30
they're very anti- you know uh media but
00:19:34
what I think what you're talking about
00:19:35
what really interesting is you just need
00:19:37
to pick the right environment so we
00:19:39
think about Platforms in the context of
00:19:40
like permission and Interruption so
00:19:42
YouTube is an interruptive platform you
00:19:44
have to stop someone in their tracks
00:19:45
with a thumbnail to get them to click in
00:19:47
right but Spotify for example is a
00:19:50
permission based platform like RSS feeds
00:19:52
are permission based email which we we
00:19:54
have an email newsletter that's where we
00:19:55
can have permission people have given us
00:19:57
permission to be there it's where you're
00:19:59
seeing the rise of memberships too
00:20:00
whether it's like patreon right like
00:20:02
people have said hey you know what I'll
00:20:04
pay whatever you guys make I'm down and
00:20:06
so I actually think you you just think
00:20:07
about those environments of you know top
00:20:09
of funnel bottom funnel or you go
00:20:11
permission Interruption it's it's an
00:20:12
interesting way to think about in this
00:20:14
environment I can play around and my
00:20:16
audience has given us permission
00:20:17
everyone who's in here we have the
00:20:19
permission to kind of talk about
00:20:20
whatever we want to talk about you're
00:20:22
not worried about the title yeah right
00:20:24
yeah and that that's that's sort of
00:20:26
where I'm getting to and the the other
00:20:29
Trend that free Berg and I have been
00:20:30
talking about you know we have this
00:20:31
natural tension we don't have ads on the
00:20:33
pod on my other pod it makes millions of
00:20:35
dollars in ads this week in startups and
00:20:37
it that helps me have a team of nine
00:20:38
people we like to throw good parties and
00:20:40
we like to yeah we we spent we spent
00:20:43
like a million to Ay I spent 900,000 on
00:20:47
the Barbie party on the pier these we
00:20:51
spent more this year this year we did oh
00:20:53
my God [ __ ] well see that me let me just
00:20:57
put a little plug in
00:20:59
this year at the all- in Summit in La
00:21:01
the first night is going to be insane
00:21:04
insane never it's like everything last
00:21:07
year combined like yeah it's going to be
00:21:09
awesome anyway you I mean uh my job is
00:21:12
to burn all the money I'm like Jimmy at
00:21:15
Mr Beast like like like let's flip a
00:21:17
coin and double it you know I kind of
00:21:20
feel that that's like what's
00:21:23
interesting when you have success as an
00:21:25
artist is being able to deploy resources
00:21:29
to make something that gives Joy or that
00:21:32
experience right and I one of the the
00:21:35
great things about the event is when
00:21:38
people show up and they dress when a
00:21:40
party has a theme great music great
00:21:43
people and that's in a really great
00:21:45
location something happens to has
00:21:47
anybody been to one of the all- in
00:21:48
Summit parties raise your hand open open
00:21:50
bar open bar well fought me on the open
00:21:53
bar I'm like you got to have my thing
00:21:55
was wine and beer and like a couple of
00:21:57
cocktails but this guy's like a bit of a
00:21:59
lush and he's like we got to have like
00:22:00
all the high-end stuff and then what
00:22:02
happens is the last hour think
00:22:04
everyone's like sipping champagne
00:22:05
looking in the sunset no people are
00:22:06
pounding double Mallen 18s cuz they're
00:22:09
like I got to get my money's worth and
00:22:11
then I all of a sudden I'm in a headlock
00:22:13
getting somebody's taking a self me
00:22:15
you're my favorite friend I love you
00:22:18
um what do you think of the the
00:22:22
phenomenon now of building audience to
00:22:26
distribute a product because this is in
00:22:28
Ed this is a great by the way let's just
00:22:30
ask the broader question what's the
00:22:32
business model you have a new Creator
00:22:34
they're starting to build an audience
00:22:36
advise them on what are the paths they
00:22:38
can walk and where that can go because
00:22:39
this is one of the paths a great one
00:22:41
that we're talking about but like what
00:22:43
are the options and when does one become
00:22:46
an option sure I mean no matter what
00:22:48
everyone is making videos attracting an
00:22:51
audience and selling a product the
00:22:53
product is either theirs or someone
00:22:55
else's like if we go back in the history
00:22:56
of media why are they called soap oper
00:22:59
they were literally created to sell soap
00:23:01
Yes right and so I I think um that right
00:23:04
that is right soap was like the the car
00:23:07
companies I soap were the uh the big
00:23:10
sponsors really on no but like it was it
00:23:13
was programming that was created to
00:23:14
attract a specific audience that was
00:23:16
interested in buying soap totally right
00:23:17
and so that's why the programming
00:23:19
happened in the middle of the day um and
00:23:21
so the the reality is like you can say
00:23:23
Housewives at that time nobody's going
00:23:25
to think you're a
00:23:26
misogynist you said it not me but you
00:23:28
know I mean at the time that was a
00:23:30
nuclear family was nuclear family and
00:23:32
that's that's why they were called soap
00:23:33
operas um so you know the reality is for
00:23:37
a young Creator I would say that the
00:23:38
number one piece of advice is actually
00:23:40
keep your operation lean and your costs
00:23:42
very low most great creators can create
00:23:46
if you're a good Storyteller you can
00:23:47
make videos right now on the internet
00:23:48
with your iPhone um the number one thing
00:23:51
you have to think about is the audience
00:23:52
that you are engaging cuz at the core of
00:23:55
it your product is your relationship
00:23:58
ship with the audience it's the trust
00:23:59
that you have with the audience and so
00:24:01
that takes a long time to build um some
00:24:04
creators make the mistake of of raising
00:24:06
money to start making their content or
00:24:08
some creators make the mistake of hiring
00:24:10
a big staff that creates too much
00:24:12
overhead you're going to start doing
00:24:13
deals that maybe you don't want to do
00:24:15
you need cash to finance your content
00:24:17
first and foremost it's like keep it
00:24:18
lean make good stuff find the audience
00:24:21
your first hundred videos are going to
00:24:22
suck just build until you find the
00:24:25
audience that you want yeah and then the
00:24:27
business models will start to
00:24:29
um emerge whether that's hey you know
00:24:31
what I built a great brand and part of
00:24:33
my content I'm Emma Chamberlain and part
00:24:34
of my content is I drink coffee every
00:24:36
day so maybe I should launch a coffee
00:24:38
brand I take the coffee that I'm
00:24:39
drinking every day meaning meaning make
00:24:41
your own brand yeah right and that
00:24:43
that's but that's hard that means you
00:24:45
have like critical mass big scale you're
00:24:48
reaching millions and millions cost
00:24:49
challenge but payoff is higher yeah and
00:24:52
that's the big it can be it can be I
00:24:54
think cpg is really it's all predicated
00:24:55
on connecting with an audience first so
00:24:57
the ad I think what I'm hearing is hey
00:25:01
connect with the audience and put on the
00:25:05
back half of your career monetization
00:25:08
but just connect and and Marquez I don't
00:25:10
know if you ever seen uh his early
00:25:12
reviews I mean it's hilarious he's like
00:25:15
how old is he 15 16 17 years old and
00:25:17
he's like I'm using this phone it's the
00:25:19
iPhone 4 Jimmy's First videos are still
00:25:21
up on YouTube yeah Mr BEAST's First
00:25:22
videos is he's still up there you got to
00:25:23
go watch I mean I watched one of them
00:25:25
it's him counting to 10,000 I think that
00:25:27
was that by the that was a later video
00:25:29
his very first videos you got to go
00:25:30
watch like the first 10 videos I mean
00:25:32
he's playing video games you can't even
00:25:33
see his face you're like what and he's
00:25:35
speaking speaking how this guy become
00:25:37
the most famous person in the world from
00:25:38
from that but you can see the evolution
00:25:40
he watches paint dry in a video like a
00:25:42
20 hour long video but uh just to go
00:25:46
back to the question isn't one of the
00:25:47
other paths selling your content so now
00:25:50
we're seeing a bunch of deals Jimmy's
00:25:52
getting a deal from Amazon Amazon paid
00:25:55
him for the Beast games um we're seeing
00:25:58
more comedians that do live shows
00:26:01
getting deals with Netflix we're seeing
00:26:03
a bunch more of those happen we're
00:26:05
seeing um Hulu and other platforms start
00:26:08
to bid even uh X might be doing some
00:26:10
more content deals with uh folks that
00:26:13
look more like journalists so ultimately
00:26:16
how do you decide whether I want to
00:26:17
monetize by ads and making a product or
00:26:20
is there becoming a more liquid market
00:26:23
for selling my content on to bigger
00:26:25
platforms that are losing their audience
00:26:26
to be independent and they need to
00:26:27
basically go rebuild an audience like is
00:26:30
that a realistic path or is that just
00:26:31
like the the cream of the cream get to
00:26:33
have access to kind of I think that's a
00:26:34
realistic path for the top and maybe you
00:26:36
could talk about the Spotify thing
00:26:37
especially if we're talking about
00:26:38
streaming I think it's a realistic path
00:26:39
for the top um and I I don't look at it
00:26:42
as like selling content I look at it as
00:26:43
selling distribution like bringing
00:26:45
distribution and audience the ads get
00:26:47
layered on to these platforms yeah I
00:26:49
mean talk about amazing digital circus
00:26:50
yeah I think interesting where it's
00:26:52
probably going there's an interesting
00:26:53
case study there's a YouTube channel
00:26:55
called amazing digital circus uh which
00:26:56
is an animated Channel and they did a
00:26:58
deal that is super unique I think the
00:26:59
first of its kind where they will be
00:27:02
Distributing on Netflix at the same
00:27:03
exact time as they distribute on YouTube
00:27:05
so Netflix licensed the content and it's
00:27:08
coming out at the same time it's not
00:27:10
it's not their content it's not
00:27:11
proprietary to Netflix no right it's
00:27:13
licensed deal in that regard he's making
00:27:15
money on Advertising but he wouldn't be
00:27:18
getting he's not getting paid as much or
00:27:19
they're not getting paid as much as if
00:27:21
they sold the content and the rights to
00:27:23
Netflix is that right yeah maybe if it
00:27:25
was like an original yeah I guess if it
00:27:26
was exclusive but this is a shed moment
00:27:28
in many ways cuz Netflix was really
00:27:31
about them being The Taste maker them
00:27:34
underwriting it right you know at least
00:27:36
in this like Netflix post licensing DVDs
00:27:41
then they became the creators the
00:27:43
Arbiters and now they're going back in
00:27:45
some ways to saying we're going to
00:27:47
cherry-pick people off of YouTube give
00:27:50
them money for their quarter billion
00:27:53
subscribers it's a really fascinating
00:27:55
moment I think probably that if you've
00:27:57
seen the neelon ratings of connected TV
00:27:59
usage YouTube's at the top at 11% right
00:28:02
it's the most used streaming app on
00:28:04
connected TVs Netflix is at 88.5% and in
00:28:07
December after Beast games Thursday
00:28:09
night football and that movie that they
00:28:10
did with the rock Amazon they made a
00:28:12
move moved up to 4% right so but YouTube
00:28:15
Netflix moved up you mean Amazon Prime
00:28:17
video moved
00:28:19
up% uh at 8.5% and YouTube but YouTube's
00:28:23
at 11% right like right the reality is
00:28:26
um there's a really interesting quote
00:28:27
from Ted OS when Netflix won uh their
00:28:30
first Emmy for House of Cards cuz
00:28:32
Netflix was an aggregator beforehand
00:28:33
right so Netflix goes from aggregator
00:28:35
starts producing original programming
00:28:37
and it was a massive moment when they
00:28:38
won an Emmy because that was pretty new
00:28:40
that some internet tech company can win
00:28:42
an em strange and Ted Sandos said
00:28:44
television is television it doesn't
00:28:46
matter which pipe brings it forward and
00:28:49
I think it's a really important thing
00:28:50
that the major difference when it comes
00:28:52
to YouTube is Netflix is going to spend
00:28:54
18 billion on content this year YouTube
00:28:56
doesn't spend on content YouTube does a
00:28:57
revenue share they actually technically
00:28:59
don't know what's going to get uploaded
00:29:00
today and it could be the biggest video
00:29:02
of the day it could be something like
00:29:04
amazing digital circus that did 500
00:29:05
million views across three episodes wow
00:29:08
it's also interesting Netflix I'm sorry
00:29:10
YouTube premium taking the ads out is
00:29:13
at0 125 million subscribers that 125 now
00:29:17
I knew that broke how many people here
00:29:19
pay for Netflix red or the premium
00:29:22
version that takes out the Eds wait
00:29:24
YouTube red oh YouTube PRI premium
00:29:26
YouTube premium the godamn name how many
00:29:28
people are YouTube wow that's pretty
00:29:30
significant it's like a third of the
00:29:31
audience and what is that 12 bucks it's
00:29:34
like 20 bucks yeah it's 20 bucks 20 I
00:29:36
think it's the best 20 bucks I spend on
00:29:38
I agree how do the um the guys that are
00:29:40
losing audience which are the
00:29:41
traditional broadcasters how are they
00:29:44
going to respond as Their audience gets
00:29:46
a Tred away like we're seeing as long
00:29:48
form is taking up
00:29:50
more time and attention from The
00:29:53
Independents Fox News is losing an
00:29:56
audience CNN is losing an audience MSN
00:29:58
NBC is losing an audience I mean their
00:29:59
their audiences are gone like they're
00:30:00
just vaporizing right now what are they
00:30:03
going to do they've got a lot of cash
00:30:04
they got a lot of advertising dollars
00:30:06
still flowing in for now no they're well
00:30:09
capitalized they've got very motivated
00:30:11
shareholders what's their response if
00:30:13
you guys are an executive running Fox
00:30:15
what would you do and we spoke about
00:30:16
this recently but there already are some
00:30:18
shows on cable that are starting to act
00:30:21
more like digital channels more like
00:30:23
YouTube channels right if you look at
00:30:24
like Saturday Night Live or you look at
00:30:27
late night those are actually just a
00:30:29
bunch of segments that can work really
00:30:31
well when uploaded to YouTube or to the
00:30:33
internet and I think when you bring up
00:30:35
Fox News News is actually one of the
00:30:38
last genres of cable to try and figure
00:30:40
out or be able to figure out how to put
00:30:43
themselves into segments that work at
00:30:46
the 20 plus minute range which is what's
00:30:48
working on YouTube right now but the
00:30:50
long form is crushing too right like the
00:30:52
hourong I mean our show is 90 minutes
00:30:55
Lex does 3 and a half hours say R's like
00:30:58
hours long and he's number one when I
00:31:00
say 20 plus I mean like that's like the
00:31:02
minimum like 20 and and continuing to go
00:31:05
so but does that mean that they're going
00:31:08
to try and license Rogan they're going
00:31:09
to try and license Lex they're going to
00:31:10
try and license one of these
00:31:12
Independents in is that the move that
00:31:14
they're going to have to make ultimately
00:31:15
that's going to be like a big changing
00:31:17
of the guards because that's like a
00:31:18
there's like some risk mitigation that I
00:31:19
don't know if they would be comfortable
00:31:21
with Pat McAfee yeah I guess Pat mcafe
00:31:23
is a good example on ESPN a sports guy
00:31:25
yeah yeah Sports so ESPN just picked him
00:31:27
up yeah that's right yeah he does
00:31:29
independent yeah well he he came on to
00:31:31
ESPN but that also created some you know
00:31:33
ESPN tried something similar with bar
00:31:34
stool a while ago right and barcol got
00:31:37
taken off the air within an episode or
00:31:39
two because again there's a risk factor
00:31:40
they said some stuff on air and they
00:31:42
were like we can't we can't do this get
00:31:44
them off the air but mcafe is the more
00:31:45
mature you know iteration of that as
00:31:47
both spaces have kind of matured um
00:31:49
that's like a YouTube show that was
00:31:51
brought television and mcafe is really
00:31:53
good where he's doing I don't know if
00:31:54
you guys saw the college game Day stuff
00:31:55
where he's doing the big field goal
00:31:57
kicks for 100,000
00:31:58
it's essentially a YouTube title but
00:32:00
built for TV that then gets clipped and
00:32:02
put onto YouTube right and so I think
00:32:04
that's that's what Colin saying ISB at
00:32:06
any moment and it looks like you're
00:32:07
watching a podcast right when you see
00:32:09
his show the production level is pretty
00:32:10
low so they're going to so is is the
00:32:12
media exec going to go out and find the
00:32:15
next or the up and cominging and say I
00:32:17
want to bring you on I'm going to pay
00:32:18
you to come and do this on my platform
00:32:20
now you're going to become a Fox News
00:32:22
show you're going to become an ESPN show
00:32:23
they have to that's like they have to
00:32:25
give irrational deals to creators right
00:32:27
versus the talent agent showing up and
00:32:29
saying here's a good the other problem
00:32:31
is distribution so like Jimmy for
00:32:32
example like Jimmy is yes he's in the
00:32:34
media business but he's in the chocolate
00:32:36
business right and so being able to get
00:32:40
to 200 300 million people in a video is
00:32:43
really significant and YouTube being at
00:32:45
the top of the connected TV streaming
00:32:47
apps like you'd probably choose YouTube
00:32:49
if you're just going pure distribution
00:32:51
if you're selling a chocolate brand or
00:32:53
some other type of CBG product you
00:32:55
choose distribution over not totally and
00:32:57
so I think when you're getting offered a
00:32:58
deal to go onto Fox News do stuff on
00:33:01
linear TV it has to be such an
00:33:02
irrational deal because it limits my
00:33:05
distribution right even if I go onto a a
00:33:08
Netflix technically I'm actually I'm
00:33:09
limited in distribution if I'm Mr Beast
00:33:11
y not if I'm another cre also the money
00:33:14
and control issues are also very acute I
00:33:17
when this week when Stardust was doing
00:33:19
good right before Allin started I met
00:33:21
with the Sirius XM team and they were
00:33:24
like hey you know we think you might
00:33:26
have some like Howard Stern potential
00:33:27
and what if you got Travis from Uber he
00:33:29
was very hot at the time um and a couple
00:33:31
of guys to come on and and do like a you
00:33:34
know Round Table thing and and make it
00:33:36
fun and then when I like we started
00:33:38
talking money I was like that's less
00:33:40
money than this week in startups makes
00:33:41
already and I Own 100% of it would I own
00:33:44
the IP here and they're like well no no
00:33:45
we own the IP and I'm like I mean this
00:33:47
is we're talking six years ago seven
00:33:48
years ago and then even now you know
00:33:51
once in a while I'll talk to CNBC or
00:33:52
somebody will come and say Hey you know
00:33:54
you have any ideas and I'm like it
00:33:58
doesn't economically make sense for a
00:34:00
Creator who has escape velocity to go
00:34:02
backwards and I I I wonder freedberg if
00:34:06
the answer to this question is anybody
00:34:09
who is actually talented enough like a
00:34:13
Megan Kelly or you know somebody who
00:34:16
like Mr Beast or even uh Tucker Carlson
00:34:19
like how could they ever go back to FOX
00:34:21
NOW right that's the point I don't think
00:34:23
they will I think it's entropy it's only
00:34:25
going in One Direction I think there
00:34:26
audience aot their advertising dollars a
00:34:29
road and then they're getting whatever
00:34:32
broadcasting distribution Deals they
00:34:33
have on cable are going to slowly be
00:34:36
worth less I don't know what it's going
00:34:38
to be worth I think Colin isn't this
00:34:39
Colin like because fox fox and SiriusXM
00:34:43
and CNBC have a cost infrastructure so
00:34:45
when they meet Talent they're like
00:34:48
Talent gets 20% and then we need to get
00:34:50
our 20% and then the other 50 60% has to
00:34:53
go to the shareholders yeah and the
00:34:55
building and and the 50 [ __ ] camera
00:34:58
operators no you're 100% right the
00:35:00
model's broken mod great thing about
00:35:02
your guys shows it's on started on Zoom
00:35:04
we talked about this in the context of
00:35:05
creators like back the advice to an
00:35:07
up-and-coming Creator it's the same it's
00:35:08
the same advice keep your overhead cost
00:35:10
extremely low creators are the startups
00:35:12
of Hollywood we always say like think
00:35:14
out on a 52 we schedule could you do
00:35:17
this every week week for 52 weeks if
00:35:19
you're someone who loves to set up
00:35:20
cameras and lights sure you might be
00:35:22
able to do that but if you're 100% right
00:35:23
busy people you're like yeah we can hop
00:35:25
on Zoom every week for 50 and if this if
00:35:27
this if were like what you're describing
00:35:28
there's no freaking way i' do it like
00:35:30
zero chance like I the only reason I do
00:35:32
it is because I can get on Zoom for 90
00:35:33
minutes and be done and then I go on the
00:35:35
rest of my day for work like the the
00:35:37
turning point of the Pod really was when
00:35:41
you know used to run out of my operation
00:35:42
and I said the guys have to commit to
00:35:44
Thursdays the same time we cannot if
00:35:47
this is going to work everybody has to
00:35:49
agree that Thursdays at 11:00 a.m.
00:35:51
Pacific or sacur Saint and uh everybody
00:35:54
agreed we all blocked it out we all
00:35:56
blocked it out and we said no if anybody
00:35:59
has to move then we go to our list of
00:36:02
you know fifth besties six besties and
00:36:04
we rotate them in but we're not going to
00:36:07
like move around chamat schedule
00:36:08
schedule free and that's when the show
00:36:11
really like actually okay let me let me
00:36:13
take the conversation in the opposite
00:36:14
direction now which is we're going from
00:36:16
like points of high low leverage Fox
00:36:19
News lots of cameras lots of buildings
00:36:21
expenses to low leverage being on zoom
00:36:23
and a laptop to let me talk about the
00:36:25
lower leverage are you seeing any
00:36:29
success in geni only content channels
00:36:33
out there and maybe you could talk about
00:36:36
as gen gets better and better and better
00:36:39
do we have agents that ingest the news
00:36:41
ingest content ingest data repackage it
00:36:45
and then create new versions of through
00:36:47
an iterative process to to kind of hack
00:36:50
the algorithm to figure out how do I get
00:36:52
stuff that people stay on what's the
00:36:54
right Cut Rate what's the right color
00:36:55
balance what's the right sound what's
00:36:56
the right audio what's the right music
00:36:58
and ultimately the Gen gen does what
00:37:01
great content creators like Jimmy took
00:37:03
10 years to do in a couple weeks and
00:37:06
ultimately creates like a whole new
00:37:08
category and I'm just thinking ahead
00:37:09
here now but like maybe you tell us
00:37:11
today on the ground if you're seeing any
00:37:12
gen that's like got realistic traction
00:37:15
out there for me personally there's no
00:37:17
geni channels that are 100% geni that I
00:37:20
am watching or at least that I know of
00:37:23
uh that I'm consuming and that I'm
00:37:25
enjoying but I mean even within our
00:37:26
organization with a lot of other
00:37:28
creators the amount of AI tools that
00:37:30
we're using from like scripting to even
00:37:33
cutting the angles on our show like
00:37:35
we're continually adopting more and more
00:37:37
AI tools and I think uh which is the way
00:37:39
it should be the audience I don't think
00:37:40
even really can tell yeah right so it's
00:37:42
like slowly seeping in into production
00:37:45
yeah but not taking it over have you
00:37:47
played with notebook LM yes it's pretty
00:37:50
amazing my advantage point with the
00:37:51
first time I fed a PDF into notebook LM
00:37:54
was the Spotify earnings report and I
00:37:55
was like I'm I have a 20 Drive I want to
00:37:58
hear this and it was 9 minutes and it
00:38:00
was perfect yeah and you can if you
00:38:03
don't know what notebook LM is it's a
00:38:05
project by Google you can you can feed
00:38:06
in a bunch of text it'll turn into audio
00:38:08
it'll have two hosts they host it like a
00:38:10
podcast yeah so then I started to think
00:38:12
okay well actually you can just custom
00:38:14
make yourself a podcast for your drive
00:38:17
right and go hey I'm I'm driving 30
00:38:20
minutes I want to know about the NFL
00:38:21
scores I want to know about the Netflix
00:38:23
earnings call and I'm also interested in
00:38:26
what's going on the world of the Creator
00:38:28
economy and all of a sudden you have a
00:38:30
aggregate of news and and articles and
00:38:32
it gets turned into audio and it's
00:38:34
compelling and does that replace the
00:38:36
time that you would otherwise spend
00:38:38
listening to podcasts and watching
00:38:39
videos it's a more so what's interesting
00:38:41
about gen content I found especially
00:38:43
with notebook Elm it's it's a more
00:38:44
efficient way to consume content but I
00:38:47
don't think we prioritize efficiency
00:38:49
always as hum no of course that would be
00:38:52
like soilent you know it's like well
00:38:54
this is no no offense Brian but I'm just
00:38:57
saying like this nutty pudding concept
00:38:58
my wife makes me the Nutty pudding I'm
00:39:00
like you know what I kind of want the
00:39:01
regular pudding anyway I know it's
00:39:03
healthier um but this is it kind of
00:39:07
takes out the spontaneity of what you
00:39:10
know if you want that NBA content I live
00:39:12
I watch this Nix thing Nix fan TV yeah
00:39:15
and this guy takes all the clips and
00:39:18
last night the nck won in overtime the
00:39:21
Kell Bridges amazing buzzer beater and I
00:39:23
was as excited to open up Nick's fan TV
00:39:28
right you know he comes on 15 minutes
00:39:30
after the game and watch the community's
00:39:32
reaction to it and every time the Knicks
00:39:35
win I will give a $100 tip in a super
00:39:37
chat I probably give two or $3,000 a
00:39:39
year just to support this Creator
00:39:41
because it reminds me of WF in New York
00:39:43
and he has all these regular callers it
00:39:46
is such a spectacular product and then I
00:39:50
noticed that I'm like into Corvettes and
00:39:53
I'm in the YouTube thing and I got the
00:39:55
Corvettes in my sidebar right and and
00:39:57
this [ __ ] are like creating
00:40:00
fake AI Corvette announcements that
00:40:02
aren't real and they're using generative
00:40:04
Ai and they're saying the new zr17 is
00:40:07
here I'm like what I'm going to get the
00:40:08
ZR1 and then it's there's a 17 I click
00:40:10
on this thing and it's this AI voice
00:40:13
Chevy Corvettes are known for having the
00:40:16
greatest engines American I block that
00:40:18
[ __ ] but I block that channel so
00:40:21
look you're
00:40:22
right but trip I hit the triple dot ban
00:40:26
look I would be
00:40:28
less dismissive as we all know every
00:40:31
month we're a little more surprised by
00:40:33
what gen can do and the power of it
00:40:36
there's a really important human
00:40:37
directorial role in the early days of
00:40:39
this gen Revolution and I think that it
00:40:41
enables an incredible fragmentation of
00:40:43
media even more than we're seeing today
00:40:45
in their crater economy maybe you end up
00:40:48
getting your personal news feed with the
00:40:50
newscaster or the podcaster or the ncks
00:40:53
super fans reading to you what happened
00:40:55
at the game last night that's gen
00:40:58
completely and it's indistinguishable
00:41:00
from reality that's where I think things
00:41:02
may get a little more funky in the next
00:41:04
couple years I don't think it's like
00:41:05
that suggests also like this kind of Mo
00:41:08
far move away from monoculture into like
00:41:11
extreme microcultures which we kind of
00:41:13
already existed each of us opens our pH
00:41:14
I got a point of view on this one which
00:41:16
is like I I do think that there's um
00:41:18
shared cultural facts but different
00:41:22
cultural experience of the facts meaning
00:41:25
like the the game is the game but the
00:41:27
commentator that tells me about the game
00:41:29
is different yes and that's where I
00:41:31
think this all plays out where I'm going
00:41:33
to have like my own tuned
00:41:35
broadcaster she could be really
00:41:37
beautiful I don't know and she could be
00:41:39
really cool she could be talking to me
00:41:42
you know oneon-one I don't know it could
00:41:43
be really weird it's really funny I
00:41:45
actually I get on um on chat GPT
00:41:48
advanced voice and I have this female
00:41:49
voice and when my wife's in the car I
00:41:50
start I'm like I'm like I'm like hey
00:41:52
baby what's going on and my wife gets so
00:41:54
upset yeah I was about to say freeberg
00:41:56
as your I'm going to go ahead and adise
00:41:58
you
00:42:00
not and I think that's where it might
00:42:01
start by the way we're going to come
00:42:03
back and talk again in a few minutes but
00:42:05
Colin and Samir thank you guys we'll see
00:42:06
you guys thanks so
00:42:09
much Austin's
00:42:11
unique okay there's a lot of podcasters
00:42:15
here so you know I came to town I got a
00:42:17
lot of podcasting friends and as you
00:42:20
know I'm podcast famous which is the
00:42:24
fame that goes right below reality
00:42:26
television
00:42:28
and uh we're incredibly lucky because
00:42:30
our next guest is both podcast famous
00:42:33
and reality television famous and he's
00:42:36
in Austin and uh when I came here I was
00:42:38
like you know I'm going to come here and
00:42:40
I'm going to hang with all my podcasting
00:42:43
Bros so I texted Tim FIS I was like Tim
00:42:47
Let's uh let's get dinner Tim's like
00:42:50
yeah I'm trying to find a a girlfriend
00:42:52
wife you know I got to try to grow up
00:42:55
make a baby all this kind of stuff and
00:42:56
so I'm I'm I'm out and about I'm not in
00:43:00
town then I I text okay well I'm M for
00:43:02
one but I'll text Lex Freeman text Lex
00:43:07
Freeman he's like I'm having panic
00:43:09
attacks I don't know my life existential
00:43:12
I had Kanye on you told me not to do it
00:43:15
he was you were right and then I I had
00:43:18
zinski I had zinsky on then I had Putin
00:43:20
on everybody hates me but everybody
00:43:22
loves the pot he's he's he's a he's a
00:43:24
hot mess and he's like I can't find a
00:43:26
girlfriend either
00:43:29
so then I text Chris Williamson and I'm
00:43:32
like hey you know let's have dinner he's
00:43:33
like Jal let's eat a steak I need your
00:43:36
help I'm trying to find a girlfriend and
00:43:39
so ladies and gentlemen Chris
00:43:43
Williamson we're going to find
00:43:46
out such a good wingman good to see a
00:43:49
good wingman get over
00:43:52
here oh man you know we um chamath is
00:43:56
off the program and now we've got a real
00:43:59
man on the Pod Chris Williamson will be
00:44:02
taking chamat seat going forward he's so
00:44:04
handsome um what's going on you and I
00:44:06
had a little
00:44:08
steak and uh I think he double booked
00:44:10
but I appreciate being the first seating
00:44:13
uh on your Friday night you you went out
00:44:15
think I'm sloppy thirds for this
00:44:17
Choice um no no we Sav The Best For Last
00:44:21
there it is good safe yeah I I'm full
00:44:24
that's why you're such a good wingman
00:44:26
I'm a I'm a I'm I'm solid wingman I
00:44:28
helped Lex out a bit but um what's going
00:44:31
on on The Dating front let's be honest
00:44:33
here did you where are you at because uh
00:44:36
a lot of ladies want to know is Chris
00:44:38
Williamson still on the market or not uh
00:44:40
off the market currently but I did shave
00:44:41
the handle bomb stash which I think sort
00:44:43
of straightened me up as well people
00:44:44
were worried about that he shows up for
00:44:46
our state dinner with the porn stash of
00:44:49
all porn stashes just unbelievable this
00:44:51
handlebar thing and I was like you know
00:44:53
Chris we don't know each other whatever
00:44:55
are you straight it's like as an arrow
00:44:57
spent 50% of the meal asking me whether
00:44:59
I'm straight that kind of sounded a
00:45:01
little bit like a wishful thinking after
00:45:03
the lady dothing quiet too much I
00:45:04
thought there was a there I thought
00:45:05
there was a window facial hair I felt
00:45:07
there was a window but you started it in
00:45:09
reality TV yeah uh technically I suppose
00:45:12
so yeah I mean that's how you got your
00:45:13
first taste of media and fame yeah you
00:45:16
on love Island that would be fair yes I
00:45:18
I actually did a reality TV show before
00:45:20
that I have illustrious history of
00:45:21
reality TV oh okay uh it was a nightclub
00:45:24
promoter commercial model DJ reality TV
00:45:27
and uh that's my career too by the way I
00:45:29
was about to say yeah actually I did a
00:45:33
little Summer Stock very similar to your
00:45:35
reality T comedian told me the other day
00:45:39
uh commercial mail model club promoter
00:45:43
DJ reality TV is otherwise known as [ __ ]
00:45:46
Bingo ah yes yes
00:45:50
absolutely uh so I had a full house and
00:45:53
um yeah look did some reality TV stuff
00:45:56
that was uh kind of like an existential
00:45:58
crisis that was captured on television
00:46:00
24 hours a day uh being trapped in a a
00:46:03
house for a little while and then got
00:46:05
toward the end of my 20s and Rogan Sam
00:46:09
Harris aland debaton from the school of
00:46:11
Life uh Jordan Peterson are all coming
00:46:13
to the front and I thought wow I'm
00:46:15
learning a lot from these people I'm
00:46:16
less of an adult infant as I was when I
00:46:19
first started listening to them maybe if
00:46:20
I started my own show I would be able to
00:46:23
have these sorts of conversations they
00:46:24
felt really nourishing to me and uh 900
00:46:27
episodes and a billion and a bit
00:46:29
downloads did you think about it did you
00:46:31
think about it as an interview show were
00:46:33
you like I want to interview people or
00:46:34
were you like I want to explore the
00:46:36
world or I want to teach people or what
00:46:38
what was the kind of I had nothing to
00:46:39
teach people right and how at all yeah
00:46:41
um so it was very much yeah I'm going to
00:46:43
find these interesting people who
00:46:45
understand how the world works I want to
00:46:47
understand myself and the world around
00:46:48
me and uh but you start off with who
00:46:50
you've got around you your friends like
00:46:52
Kai way the guy that invite invented the
00:46:54
light phone he was episode 10 cuz I was
00:46:56
super obsessed with digital minimalism
00:46:58
and what social media was doing to our
00:47:00
brains and then there was a season of
00:47:02
relationships and a season of health and
00:47:03
fitness and there was a season of EV
00:47:04
evolutionary psychology so it's a it's a
00:47:07
thinly veiled autobiography which I
00:47:09
actually think a lot of people's sort of
00:47:10
true bodies of work are if you following
00:47:13
your instinct you're just it's a little
00:47:15
trail of breadcrumbs of where your mind
00:47:16
was at at that time yeah and you figured
00:47:20
out the great hack of podcasting which
00:47:23
is if you want to learn really quick if
00:47:26
you hang out with smart people and you
00:47:28
ask some very simple questions and and
00:47:30
you you're present and you listen to the
00:47:32
answers maybe you're really good at the
00:47:33
follow-up question by the way which is
00:47:35
always how I judge an interviewer how
00:47:37
good they are at being present and not
00:47:38
being like okay question number one done
00:47:41
check now let's go to number two the you
00:47:43
know you're really good at listening and
00:47:45
and finding that next question but you
00:47:47
you it is such an amazing hack to learn
00:47:50
right and and to to build a network and
00:47:51
to even build a group of friends look I
00:47:54
always felt reticent that I did business
00:47:56
at University I did two business degrees
00:47:58
including a masters and I can't remember
00:48:00
anything from either of them I spent a
00:48:02
lot of time partying again club promoter
00:48:03
[ __ ] Bingo
00:48:05
um and I always thought I wish I'd gone
00:48:08
and done psychology I wish I'd sort of
00:48:09
followed something more approximating a
00:48:12
passion or philosophy or sociology or
00:48:14
something and then I realized a couple
00:48:17
years ago I was like well you have done
00:48:19
that you've got to design your own
00:48:20
degree only speaking to the best in
00:48:22
their field about the very specific
00:48:24
Niche part of their topic that you want
00:48:26
to learn on your terms with no
00:48:28
coursework or homework beyond what you
00:48:30
want to do and you get to call it a job
00:48:32
so whatever version of the simulation
00:48:33
that we're in at the moment I need to
00:48:35
sort of thank the designer because it's
00:48:37
wild I get to call this a career it's uh
00:48:40
I think we all feel that way uh in in
00:48:43
many respects tell me about uh you know
00:48:46
Sam's a good friend of mine um we had we
00:48:48
had the same book agent for a long time
00:48:50
and uh I remember I had him on my
00:48:52
podcast and he said what's podcasting
00:48:54
and I explained it to him and he said
00:48:56
well how do I do it and I said well you
00:48:58
get two microphones and a guest and he's
00:49:00
like then what I'm like well then we hit
00:49:01
the record button and and I helped him
00:49:03
start the the Pod um what are your
00:49:06
thoughts
00:49:07
on what he's done and his influence
00:49:10
because I know you've really had him
00:49:12
you've had him on a couple times yeah no
00:49:13
he's been on once only once okay yeah
00:49:15
yeah his wife's been on as well oh
00:49:17
anak's been on as well yeah she's
00:49:18
fantastic so tell me about your favorite
00:49:21
guest Sam Jordan Peterson I know there's
00:49:24
a bunch of he's he's pretty great
00:49:27
uh it's kind of like having to choose
00:49:28
from 900 children I suppose um one of
00:49:32
the most reliable guests actually a guy
00:49:34
called Rory Southerland you know R Rory
00:49:36
amazing for people who don't know
00:49:38
imagine a Gruff upper class British
00:49:42
swear Uncle who also happens to be one
00:49:45
of the best behavioral economists on the
00:49:47
planet so this guy understands consumer
00:49:49
Behavior like like nobody else in fact
00:49:51
if you go into OG's website and you look
00:49:53
at the job description uh on the board
00:49:55
members it says Rory suland Vice
00:49:57
chairman of ogal the advertising Rory
00:49:59
got to design his own job title
00:50:00
specifically so no one actually knows
00:50:02
what he does and um he's just he's he's
00:50:05
fantastic speaking to Jordan was great
00:50:07
uh Alan from the the school of life is
00:50:10
just he sees The Human Condition very
00:50:11
accurately so it's fun you know I get to
00:50:13
indulge my own Curiosities and and
00:50:15
follow my instincts do you think other
00:50:18
people can do it should do it this is a
00:50:21
big thing I see is like folks that want
00:50:23
to kind of create a business through
00:50:26
this kind of new Creator economy there's
00:50:28
all these paths to monetization build
00:50:30
the audience and they're like what I'll
00:50:31
do is I'll go find people to interview
00:50:32
and I'll interview them what's the
00:50:34
barrier for folks what makes folks
00:50:36
really great at this what's the
00:50:38
challenge in the business and how do you
00:50:39
kind of do it better than others like
00:50:41
yeah I think Christopher Hitchens says
00:50:44
everyone has a buck in them and for most
00:50:46
that's where it should stay
00:50:49
and I wonder whether podcasting may be
00:50:52
uh something similar um but it's
00:50:54
certainly a skill set that you can
00:50:55
develop um look I think the best thing
00:50:59
is a project so personal to you that you
00:51:01
would do it if nobody listened right and
00:51:04
for me if everybody switched off
00:51:06
tomorrow I did this when no one listened
00:51:09
your conversations with people that you
00:51:11
were truly interested in learning from
00:51:13
it's a private it's a it's an
00:51:15
autobiography for me it's a repository
00:51:17
of my own I think that's really
00:51:19
interesting because kind of like our
00:51:20
podcast was us literally talking with
00:51:22
each other about the things that were
00:51:24
going on in the world and how we were
00:51:26
maneuvering and and talking about Market
00:51:28
stuff that we would literally do at the
00:51:30
poker table look and then we just did it
00:51:32
on zoom and put on the internet all of
00:51:34
the people that are here I listen every
00:51:35
week I think the pod's fantastic I get
00:51:37
to tune in and just listen to between
00:51:40
three and five guys depending on who's
00:51:42
available that week just have a hang and
00:51:44
it feels like you're dropping in on
00:51:45
precisely the poker table or the private
00:51:48
room of the steak dinner and that's why
00:51:50
I think people are massive fans of the
00:51:52
show because it feels like I know you
00:51:55
you're genuine authentic conversations
00:51:58
that you want to have as an individual
00:51:59
that you're interested in having it's
00:52:02
like it's like uh if your friend list
00:52:04
was just a little bit better educated
00:52:06
than you and you're like okay I get to
00:52:08
find out it's a little bit more elevated
00:52:10
as a conversation yeah by the way this
00:52:11
is a little different than what we
00:52:12
talked about which is the other side of
00:52:14
this Creator economy which is hacking an
00:52:16
audience making stuff for an audience
00:52:18
growing the audience where your focus is
00:52:20
on algorithmically technically
00:52:23
tactically identifying things that the
00:52:24
audience likes and then focusing on
00:52:26
those things and building from there and
00:52:28
this is a very different kind of T both
00:52:30
work this is the right tack by the way
00:52:32
is to pursue your Muse and to do
00:52:34
something that's authentically
00:52:36
interesting to you you and I both agree
00:52:38
on like film and the importance of great
00:52:40
film and great directors are the ones
00:52:42
that were left the [ __ ] alone you know
00:52:44
the the the great directors are the ones
00:52:46
who got the deals with the studios where
00:52:47
they were told they had complete
00:52:48
creative control Final Cut yeah look it
00:52:52
you can still play that game I have two
00:52:55
full-time catalog strategists and two
00:52:58
back catalog strategists as well for
00:53:00
YouTube so we have a big team that's
00:53:01
playing the algo game they're chopping
00:53:03
down Clips so look I think that uh what
00:53:06
is it that Ferris says about in the
00:53:08
shortterm your results are determined by
00:53:10
your intensity in the longterm your
00:53:12
results are determined by your
00:53:13
consistency but don't trade the latter
00:53:15
for the former and if you try and go too
00:53:17
hard if you try and do things where
00:53:18
you're being ventriloquized by the
00:53:21
audience I'm going to try and reverse
00:53:22
engineer what I think the audience wants
00:53:25
from me which means that if they stop
00:53:27
loving you not only do you not have the
00:53:30
one thing you used to have but you
00:53:31
didn't even make a body of work that you
00:53:33
cared about either so you end up
00:53:34
resenting the audience and yeah for me
00:53:37
it's kind of like a bulletproof strategy
00:53:38
you're going to keep going for longer
00:53:40
because you like what you do so can we
00:53:42
talk about monetization how you think
00:53:43
about making money and before we get to
00:53:45
that you know I just I I really want to
00:53:47
bang on this just a little bit more you
00:53:49
you also made a decision we were talking
00:53:51
before about we did something lowii to
00:53:54
just get ourselves in the same space
00:53:56
face virtually with zoom for a couple of
00:53:59
hours your production quality is
00:54:02
absolutely stunning you care about
00:54:04
athetics you care about the lighting and
00:54:06
the location just for the audience here
00:54:10
take us through that decision and I
00:54:13
don't I I don't know the earliest part
00:54:14
of the catalog and if you did it to that
00:54:16
level uh you have done some zooms I
00:54:18
believe because Rory is only available
00:54:19
on Zoom but but take me through the
00:54:22
aesthetic choices you made uh and why
00:54:25
yeah so I realized about three years ago
00:54:27
that most podcasters are something with
00:54:31
a podcast they're a UFC fighter with a
00:54:33
podcast they're a comedian with a
00:54:34
podcast there whatever investors with a
00:54:36
podcast right it's not their profession
00:54:38
so I asked myself what would it look
00:54:40
like if we turned Pro being a podcaster
00:54:44
and part of that is the lift needs to be
00:54:46
very low for most people that are busy
00:54:48
doing other things because they're busy
00:54:50
doing other things so they can't spend
00:54:51
ages going towards this you know one big
00:54:54
production uh so I started working with
00:54:56
Cinema photographers I got one of the
00:54:57
best directors of Photography in America
00:54:59
uh he's out of Nashville I got a
00:55:00
producer we got grips Gaffers we started
00:55:02
using location Scouts and we started to
00:55:05
dial in a very specific luck we started
00:55:07
to use handheld cameras on tripods
00:55:09
monopods dollies doorway dollies we did
00:55:12
the first ever Five camera podcast on uh
00:55:16
LED video wall the same technology that
00:55:18
was used for the Mandalorian and as we
00:55:20
were talking live the video uh
00:55:23
controller changed the scenes based on
00:55:26
on what we talked about so if we moved
00:55:28
from a war story to a scary story in a
00:55:30
spooky house we went from uh Afghan base
00:55:34
with trucks driving around and
00:55:35
helicopters coming in to a spooky house
00:55:37
that had is it like literally the
00:55:39
opposite of what col Samir saying with
00:55:41
keep the budget low but I got I mean
00:55:44
just knowing what I know about
00:55:46
production costs that that sounds like
00:55:48
you're spending 30 40 dim an episode
00:55:51
it's yeah it's not far off that um we
00:55:53
can get it down by squeezing here and
00:55:55
there thankfully my my line producer is
00:55:57
uh a sort of bully when it comes to
00:55:59
trying to get that stuff down but look
00:56:01
uh I like pretty things and I think that
00:56:03
one way that you can Excel is to stand
00:56:05
out visually and
00:56:08
um look who I'm on stage with um I like
00:56:12
things to look nice and I didn't see
00:56:14
anyone that was really elevating the way
00:56:16
that stuff looked does it change the
00:56:20
subject's uh mindset and the the
00:56:23
interview itself when they when they see
00:56:26
how beautiful it is when they see the
00:56:27
investment in it does it change
00:56:29
something in the subject so I I have
00:56:32
this belief that at least in the world
00:56:33
of podcasting was sort of splitting into
00:56:35
two directions at the moment one of them
00:56:37
is perhaps a little bit more elevated
00:56:40
it's the modern wisdoms it's the Steven
00:56:42
bartletts of the world and then the
00:56:44
other side is the more sort of low Tech
00:56:46
it would be Allin it would be mat mat
00:56:48
Shane's secret podcast and then you know
00:56:50
you've got sort of a Rogen or a flagrant
00:56:52
that sort of sits somewhere in the
00:56:53
middle which is good quality not insane
00:56:55
it's just just facilitating the hang and
00:56:58
um I think that barbell both of those is
00:57:01
a a good way to go you can lean into the
00:57:03
real sort of high-end production stuff
00:57:05
and when the guest turns up and they're
00:57:06
like wow we're in a you know
00:57:10
25,000 foot Warehouse in the middle of
00:57:12
LA and there's a team of 15 people here
00:57:15
and there's huge lights and there's guys
00:57:17
holding dollies like they're lock in you
00:57:20
know they're really there to oh this is
00:57:21
an occasion this isn't me just turning
00:57:23
up for a chat but that wouldn't work for
00:57:25
every time of show in fact what you want
00:57:27
to do is facilitate a little bit more
00:57:29
ease so that's why I still like doing
00:57:32
stuff over Zoom or I guess like
00:57:34
Riverside or whatever we use uh because
00:57:36
I want
00:57:37
to have that casual sort of convers not
00:57:41
everyone wants to turn up and it feel
00:57:42
like it's a you know the World Cup final
00:57:44
of podcasting yeah should we go to the
00:57:46
monetization so like how you How do you
00:57:48
start thinking about building the
00:57:49
business high quality content authentic
00:57:51
content was it a conversation about hey
00:57:55
let me just put this out there make ads
00:57:56
and I'll figure it out later or was it
00:57:58
very deliberate and how's the model kind
00:58:00
of evolving for you yeah so it was
00:58:02
emergent over time uh you start off just
00:58:05
taking whoever you can get a lot of
00:58:06
supplement companies and teeth whitening
00:58:08
companies whatever whatever's available
00:58:10
you read that Y and they come in or you
00:58:12
call out uh I did Outreach for the first
00:58:15
five or 600 episodes of the show so I
00:58:17
was managing my own ads I was sending
00:58:18
the invoices I was slowly scaling up the
00:58:21
cpms you can get between a 15 $25 CPM
00:58:24
something like that Audio Only I made
00:58:26
the commitment not to do ads on YouTube
00:58:29
because if it was a virtual episode it
00:58:31
felt like it was such a low lift that
00:58:33
that kind of didn't justify making
00:58:35
people sit through baked in ads at least
00:58:38
on YouTube but we got away with you mean
00:58:39
where you have the option to turn them
00:58:40
off uh no these are hardcoded into the
00:58:43
uh file itself so you just yeah that
00:58:46
that's what's referred to as baked in uh
00:58:48
and then look we've got ourselves to the
00:58:50
stage now where we have some pretty
00:58:51
interesting setups I think I'm one of
00:58:54
the only podcasters that does this where
00:58:55
we sell an entire EOS system so if you
00:58:58
come on board as one of what we call our
00:59:00
Flagship Partners you get uh set of
00:59:03
Impressions across the entire year let's
00:59:04
say 40 million 60 million impressions
00:59:07
then you get uh a number of Instagram
00:59:09
story sequences on my Instagram you'll
00:59:11
get newsletter drops on my newsletter
00:59:13
which has got 300,000 subs and a 50%
00:59:15
open rate lots of Click through on that
00:59:18
and then maybe I'll come speak at your
00:59:20
AG or I'll do something else and we
00:59:21
build out this big package that will
00:59:25
elevate
00:59:26
the level of the partner too because
00:59:28
they're being thoughtful so you're going
00:59:30
to remove the nickeling diing people who
00:59:33
should just be buying cost per click ads
00:59:35
on a you know meta and now you've got
00:59:38
people who are actually thinking about
00:59:40
their brand and what they want their
00:59:42
brand associated with I mean function
00:59:44
Health who I think on here somewhere uh
00:59:46
we did a two-year deal with them and uh
00:59:48
I love what they do I use them to track
00:59:49
my blood work and I thought why would I
00:59:51
not want to be in bed with a company
00:59:52
that I use all the time absolutely yeah
00:59:54
I mean in in our case it's deepen the
00:59:56
relationship as well so um element James
00:59:58
from element if there's something he
01:00:00
wants to talk about to do with brand I
01:00:01
have a good Insight when it comes to
01:00:03
Brand especially from a Creator side or
01:00:05
ad reads and I'll happily just you know
01:00:07
do a couple of hours of work this is
01:00:08
what we've seen that's been working
01:00:10
interesting when we were talking about
01:00:11
the old media model I'm new to all this
01:00:13
stuff so I'm not like big in this
01:00:15
podcasting space but I just observed so
01:00:16
maybe what I say is super reductive and
01:00:18
obvious but it's like you got these
01:00:20
pharmaceutical ads on Fox News and it's
01:00:23
in and it's in between the segments and
01:00:25
no one on the none of the anchors give a
01:00:27
[ __ ] about the pharmaceutical ad nor do
01:00:29
they talk about or promote it and they
01:00:30
have no connection to it there's no
01:00:32
authenticity to it but here there's an
01:00:33
opportunity to be selective and to have
01:00:35
it be part of the content part of the
01:00:36
experience and it actually probably does
01:00:38
better as a result with the audience
01:00:40
than you would get with that you know
01:00:42
have you talked to your doctor about
01:00:44
yeah diarrhea like or whatever in the
01:00:46
same way you know what it is in the same
01:00:48
way as following your instincts on the
01:00:50
show when it comes to what you talk
01:00:52
about if you can get yourself to the
01:00:54
luxurious position where you get to
01:00:56
choose your partners as well every
01:00:58
single product that I partner with I use
01:01:00
so let's talk about so you got leverage
01:01:03
yeah whitelisted advertising was
01:01:05
something we started on this week and
01:01:07
started from the beginning which was if
01:01:09
I don't use the product or don't like it
01:01:10
we we turn it down we turn down all
01:01:13
kinds of crazy offers from you know
01:01:16
services that you'll hear like I was I
01:01:18
was on Megan Kelly and I heard her read
01:01:20
one of two of these ads and I was like
01:01:22
God I would never read that ad because I
01:01:25
know that if you type in that product
01:01:28
and scam or complaints it'll be like a
01:01:31
long list of people complaining about it
01:01:33
and then we were talking about her
01:01:35
business and she's using a third-party
01:01:38
agency to sell her Partnerships I said
01:01:40
Megan you're Megan Kelly like just get
01:01:43
to ad reps to and partnership people and
01:01:46
you have to build that leg of the stool
01:01:48
you you've got the content you've got
01:01:49
the distribution you've got the
01:01:50
advertising the partners you have to
01:01:52
have all three of the stool or else let
01:01:54
me ask let me ask over yeah two
01:01:56
questions who have you turned down like
01:01:58
advertising wise no category just tell
01:02:00
me the category anything anything which
01:02:02
is to do with investing we've said no to
01:02:05
by gold Jonathan Jonathan mad's gu stood
01:02:07
there and he hates it because you know
01:02:08
these guys are prepared to spend big
01:02:10
money yeah you don't want your customers
01:02:12
losing money being upset at you there
01:02:14
phly I I can't I don't have the chops to
01:02:16
be able to assess whether or not this
01:02:18
bank or this new investment opportunity
01:02:20
can you turn your Roth IRA into a 501k
01:02:22
backed by I don't know I have no idea I
01:02:25
hear these I got Ben Shapiro you don't
01:02:27
know either so that's interesting yeah
01:02:29
well so let me ask you guys both a
01:02:31
question um in the old internet World
01:02:34
there were these companies that emerged
01:02:36
within double click a quantive that were
01:02:38
the site rep firms so there were a lot
01:02:40
of independent websites out there they
01:02:42
didn't they didn't have the most
01:02:44
sophisticated Salesforce they couldn't
01:02:46
go hire the two great sales reps to go
01:02:48
do the work and dial in there wasn't a
01:02:50
very liquid market so the site rep firms
01:02:52
would rep your site they would go out
01:02:53
and get ad do you see more of those kind
01:02:56
of emerging today are they getting more
01:02:57
sophisticated are they getting better to
01:02:59
enable smaller creators to be able to
01:03:01
kind of be successful in this space
01:03:02
right now maybe I mean I think it's it's
01:03:05
a difficult and you've never done
01:03:08
it finish your thought and then I'll add
01:03:10
mine yeah it's a difficult game to play
01:03:12
because people can go to create as a
01:03:15
sort of round about my size and it's
01:03:17
very reliable you know what you're going
01:03:19
to get in terms of plays you know what
01:03:20
you're going to get in terms of
01:03:21
demographic but the shows that are
01:03:22
smaller are growing so you don't
01:03:24
actually know what it is you're going to
01:03:26
get so maybe you can bundle all of these
01:03:28
guys together into some weird sort of
01:03:30
dispersed multi Channel network type
01:03:32
thing and there will bulk be sold by
01:03:34
some company that sits above them but
01:03:35
it's it's so effortful and when you
01:03:37
think some podcast going to do 25,000
01:03:40
plays totally you've got to go through
01:03:42
all the rigmar and the red tape and the
01:03:43
ad read to hit 25,000 people or you
01:03:46
could go to Rogan and hit like 100,000
01:03:50
times that have you ever used site reps
01:03:52
no I always hated the concept even we're
01:03:55
doing blogs
01:03:57
because um yeah you you wind
01:04:01
up if you're going to take it seriously
01:04:03
and you want to make it into a great
01:04:05
effort I think you you have to have that
01:04:07
relationship and not somebody mitigating
01:04:08
it right I I think it's better to just
01:04:11
focus on the content until you hit to to
01:04:14
Chris's point the the reach that is
01:04:17
necessary to have people calling you on
01:04:18
the phone and then being able to choose
01:04:20
it and there's other monetization that's
01:04:22
available now merchandising uh creating
01:04:25
premium content that people can do and
01:04:28
so it's just those are those are better
01:04:30
Avenues um than using these rep firms
01:04:32
and the rep firms it's a terrible
01:04:34
business because if you do your job and
01:04:37
you actually do make money and the
01:04:38
Creator does break out then they will
01:04:40
leave you like Megan Kelly will leave
01:04:42
hers or Tucker this I don't know what
01:04:44
the the one that does all the Tucker
01:04:47
cson and and all those folks but I'm
01:04:48
just shocked like Tucker and Megan were
01:04:51
getting paid 10 20 $30 million a year
01:04:54
they can afford to have one or to add
01:04:56
people doing this for them and not
01:04:58
giving 40% to somebody and it just
01:05:00
corrupts the whole relationship let me
01:05:02
ask you guys both another question so
01:05:03
you you've now got a great content
01:05:06
creation engine which is you you have a
01:05:08
great content creation at this week in
01:05:09
startups which is you and then you got
01:05:11
this Advertiser setup so you got ad
01:05:14
dollars coming in how do you get leverag
01:05:16
so that it's nonlinear any great
01:05:18
business has a nonlinear scaling
01:05:20
function and in your business you guys
01:05:22
are limited and you know this is
01:05:24
something we've talked with Jimmy and Mr
01:05:25
Beast about like if it's just you making
01:05:28
the content you can only make X number
01:05:29
of units of content per month per year
01:05:32
so that limits the scalability of the
01:05:34
revenue for your organization in terms
01:05:36
of how big this can get do you ever
01:05:38
think about creating leverage in the
01:05:39
system where you do almost like what a
01:05:41
Spielberg does with an amul in
01:05:43
entertainment or any great director
01:05:44
producer does where they scale up they
01:05:45
become the producer Network they create
01:05:47
a network they create a studio model and
01:05:49
then you have several content shows that
01:05:51
are under your brand and what have you
01:05:53
ever thought about that is that kind of
01:05:54
the the model where this is eventually
01:05:55
going to go where some of the great
01:05:56
breakouts are going to end up realizing
01:05:59
they can kind of scale up and build the
01:06:00
next Studio model if you want to do that
01:06:02
then fine but I have no desire to start
01:06:04
managing a ton of other content creators
01:06:06
managing myself is what if you still did
01:06:08
your show but you have others that you
01:06:09
kind of bet on basically perhaps I guess
01:06:12
it's it just doesn't speak to me all
01:06:13
that much and I think a question is what
01:06:15
do you need this additional money for
01:06:16
like what is it that you just need to
01:06:18
continue to build like more and more
01:06:20
profit because I I quite like where I'm
01:06:23
at I quite like the the level of Revenue
01:06:25
I make the workload that I have the fact
01:06:27
that I get to spend a morning reading
01:06:29
and I don't feel like I should have been
01:06:31
on more zoom calls so my ability to put
01:06:34
the foot my foot on the gas or take it
01:06:36
off is exclusively on me as opposed to
01:06:38
having other obligations so it's very
01:06:40
much a lifestyle business and I
01:06:42
understand that that's going to cap the
01:06:43
upside now there's some things I can
01:06:45
start cpg I can start to do some clever
01:06:47
stuff with ads where that will begin to
01:06:51
ramp and ramp and ramp but yeah I'm
01:06:53
you've got unlimited upside with how you
01:06:54
spend your time now you don't have to do
01:06:56
work 247 absolutely and you know there
01:06:58
may be a day when I decide to press that
01:07:00
button again but it's it's not right now
01:07:02
but just to like before Jason jumps in
01:07:06
you've got YouTube AdSense Partners
01:07:09
Spotify partner program which is brand
01:07:11
new and that's actually cranking quite a
01:07:13
lot and then the one area that I think
01:07:15
way more podcasters need to look at
01:07:17
which is monetizing Clips so you do mid
01:07:20
roll ads on a long podcast episodes you
01:07:23
know 20 minutes 30 minutes 50 minutes
01:07:25
100 20 minutes into an episode but you
01:07:27
can also be seven minutes into an 8
01:07:29
minute long clip totally and you can
01:07:31
crank Clips out all the time so you can
01:07:33
be putting out one a day right there's
01:07:36
other points of Leverage exactly so you
01:07:37
can look at okay how can we a bit more a
01:07:39
little bit more Innovative we can put
01:07:41
Instagram stories up we can use
01:07:42
newsletters these sort of 360 deals and
01:07:44
fill out all of the ecosystem where you
01:07:47
can without obliterating the viewing
01:07:49
experience and like making the audience
01:07:50
hate you you know I I think that's well
01:07:53
said and the there's going to be
01:07:55
International as well with AI I don't
01:07:57
know if you've experimented we have a
01:07:59
company podcast AI dubbing stuff and
01:08:01
then that'll be built into YouTube so
01:08:03
all of a sudden you'll be in Spanish
01:08:05
Japanese and French and and the whole
01:08:07
cycle will start all over again um but
01:08:10
you know I I did actually try that with
01:08:11
this week in startups I got the domain
01:08:12
name this week
01:08:14
in.com and we did this week in poker
01:08:16
with Annie Duke and this week in blank
01:08:18
this week in blank this week in comedy
01:08:20
we did we tried a bunch of those the
01:08:22
problem was but you did you did
01:08:23
different shows I did some different
01:08:25
shows in the beginning I did it for
01:08:26
about a year and what I realized was you
01:08:29
could get you know average hosts
01:08:33
broadcast host but you couldn't get
01:08:35
someone like Chris or Annie Duke for the
01:08:37
long term we had a guy Dave pensado
01:08:39
who's a music producer and I wanted to
01:08:41
do this week in music he wanted to do
01:08:43
the Dave pensado show he had his own
01:08:44
View and the really great creators what
01:08:48
they realize is I want control of my art
01:08:52
I want control of my brand I want to own
01:08:54
my IP I want want to pick my team I
01:08:56
don't want to be part of a machine and
01:09:00
so what we're seeing is people like
01:09:02
Megan Kelly and Tucker Carlson now are
01:09:05
free Ben Shapiro started with um uh he
01:09:09
was on AM radio in uh the in Los Angeles
01:09:12
and then he worked for Breitbart and now
01:09:15
he's got his own company he makes his
01:09:16
own decisions so I I think a lot of the
01:09:18
talent the most talented people will
01:09:19
want to be independent practitioners
01:09:21
true there's there's a a sort of a weird
01:09:23
level that people get to anybody who is
01:09:25
sufficiently talented for you to think
01:09:26
that they're an aade player is probably
01:09:28
not going to want to sit underneath
01:09:30
anybody else and if someone isn't that
01:09:33
good you're kind of just filling the air
01:09:35
with something that maybe isn't going to
01:09:37
catch so in this in the New Media world
01:09:39
is it all just lots of Independent
01:09:41
Producers and there is no Studio model I
01:09:43
think so absolutely I think so because a
01:09:45
lot of people want that lifestyle you
01:09:47
know what happens when you get rid of
01:09:48
distribution like it's not like we have
01:09:50
to ask somebody for permission anymore
01:09:52
it's not like the record labels where
01:09:53
you had to have distribu you had to go
01:09:55
to Columbia Records if you were a Bob
01:09:57
Dylan to be in a record store you you
01:09:59
you can just do it yeah well I think the
01:10:01
question is the economic mode being can
01:10:04
you reinvest capital in creating high
01:10:07
quality content because it's if that
01:10:09
capital is invested well it builds an it
01:10:11
creates an audience so you give certain
01:10:13
people money people will show up more
01:10:16
money comes out yeah more money comes
01:10:17
out yeah so I mean you know some high
01:10:18
points of Leverage would be getting a
01:10:20
strategist who understands the YouTube
01:10:22
algorithm and can ensure that no matter
01:10:25
what it is you're recording and how
01:10:27
honest and truthful that is to your
01:10:28
instinct it's being presented in the
01:10:31
best way for the algorithm we can
01:10:32
repurpose clip what are the sections
01:10:34
that we're choosing so one thing that
01:10:35
hasn't been spoken about today which is
01:10:36
interesting on YouTube is timeliness so
01:10:39
YouTube is increasingly becoming where
01:10:41
people go to find out their news so
01:10:43
maybe you see something that Trends on
01:10:44
Twitter and you'll catch you know some
01:10:46
clip of some kind yeah but then you
01:10:48
quickly over to YouTube okay where's the
01:10:50
breakdown and you'll have seen to use
01:10:52
Shapiro as a good example daily W I
01:10:54
think it's called Ben after d or
01:10:55
something like that it's not been after
01:10:57
dark it's been in his living room
01:10:59
because Something's Happened today and
01:11:00
before he can get back into the studio
01:11:02
tomorrow they need to get a video Trump
01:11:04
gets shot today you need to do your
01:11:05
video today because people are going to
01:11:07
be going and that's the hack to get to
01:11:09
the top because we've had this issue
01:11:11
where we put out a show because we
01:11:13
record Thursday mornings and it doesn't
01:11:14
publish usually till Friday afternoon
01:11:17
something happens Thursday after we
01:11:19
record and the show sucks literally no
01:11:21
one watches it yeah no one will watch
01:11:22
the show that's not true every watches
01:11:24
it but
01:11:25
the volum go out 40% down like oh what
01:11:28
are we going to do it's Lally talking
01:11:31
about 24-hour turnaround it's sorry
01:11:33
that's stale that's old now that's right
01:11:35
which is crazy when you think about it I
01:11:36
mean I think this is the the next great
01:11:39
opportunity will be somebody who just is
01:11:41
sitting there go and has the ability to
01:11:43
go live at any time um this is what a
01:11:45
lot of streaming is doing right you look
01:11:47
at a Hassan ABI you look at Destiny you
01:11:48
look at a asman gold uh Charlie penguin
01:11:51
zero uh all of these guys are doing it
01:11:53
now yeah they're also playing you know
01:11:55
like video games too but they're
01:11:58
commenting on a lot of culture and they
01:11:59
crush on this not because they're insane
01:12:02
cultural commentators that are you know
01:12:04
really deep in the research but because
01:12:06
they're timely and they've usually got
01:12:07
some take it' be really fascinating if
01:12:10
somebody with depth you know imagine if
01:12:14
Sam Harris when some breaking news story
01:12:16
happened turned on his live stream and
01:12:18
you're like oh my God we're now we've
01:12:20
got Sam Harris commenting on this
01:12:22
assassination attempt or Etc and you see
01:12:25
in sports I noticed Bill Simmons has
01:12:27
started Whenever there is a major trade
01:12:29
when the Kyrie trade happened when the
01:12:31
Luca donic trade happened he just goes
01:12:34
emergency pod and I think they're really
01:12:37
starting to embrace it that is like a
01:12:39
hack and I think that will become a
01:12:40
thing I I often go to the live tab on
01:12:43
YouTube now just to see what they're
01:12:44
talking about right um it's typ
01:12:47
typically low quality but once in a
01:12:49
while somebody will do something in we
01:12:51
talking about the relatability
01:12:52
authenticity thing before y if somebody
01:12:55
is talking about a developing situation
01:12:57
which
01:12:58
happened 3 hours ago it has to be Rel
01:13:01
you haven't had time to become contrived
01:13:03
totally you know what I mean totally
01:13:05
yeah I think that's a big Point what
01:13:06
other content do you think is going to
01:13:10
win going to continue to accelerate time
01:13:12
and attention away from other forms of
01:13:14
content so the long form podcast
01:13:15
conversation learn about the world with
01:13:17
me are there other forms that are out
01:13:19
there that are interesting to you that
01:13:20
formats that you think are new or
01:13:22
emerging or that are real winners that
01:13:23
are I would continue to bet on substack
01:13:26
I think and that style of blogging uh
01:13:29
very frictionless you know it's enabling
01:13:31
writers to uh work out loud I think
01:13:33
Jonathan height basically wrote his
01:13:35
entire new book chapter by chapter
01:13:37
published it on his substack allowed
01:13:39
feedack generation uh think there's
01:13:41
another one about the Tower of Babel
01:13:42
thing which he's working on next yeah
01:13:44
but yeah you just it's this uh seamless
01:13:46
transparent door so writing I think has
01:13:48
got like just huge huge upside there I'm
01:13:52
not too sure what we're going to see
01:13:54
from short I'm aware that
01:13:55
algorithmically it's able to you know
01:13:57
like get the bottom of your brain stem
01:13:59
really well but you were talking about
01:14:00
this before it doesn't seem like Tik
01:14:03
Tock creators are able to convert one
01:14:05
Tik Tok sub is worth you know or a 100
01:14:09
Tik Tok Subs is maybe worth one YouTube
01:14:11
sub correct and uh and 100 YouTubes are
01:14:14
worth one email by the way it's a lot
01:14:16
it's a lot like having a cigarette like
01:14:18
you need it but you don't want it you
01:14:20
know you end up being like I'm not
01:14:23
really looking forward to that Tik Tok
01:14:24
tonight you're not really sitting there
01:14:25
at work being I can't wait to watch that
01:14:27
Tik Tok but you get home and you're like
01:14:29
I need my Tik Tok but you do look
01:14:31
forward to seeing this great new movie
01:14:32
that's coming out this weekend or the
01:14:34
latest episode or latest episode you're
01:14:36
like I want that I don't need it but I
01:14:38
want it and I think there's a big
01:14:40
difference between that and I think
01:14:41
that's where the short form really hits
01:14:43
the lyic system it doesn't actually
01:14:45
activate the rest I think this is a form
01:14:47
of addiction that's going to wind up
01:14:50
like MTV going away MTV and music videos
01:14:54
we we all as G Gen X or I think you're
01:14:56
on the tail end of Gen X or you're
01:14:57
Millennial Millennial Millennial like we
01:14:59
kind of got addicted to it um and then
01:15:02
it kind of went away as a format of just
01:15:04
sitting there and watching three minute
01:15:06
videos and everybody thought our brains
01:15:07
were getting scrambled because we were
01:15:09
watching the AHA video and then this
01:15:11
said hold my beer yeah and Tik tok's
01:15:13
like yeah wait one second 7 seconds and
01:15:16
and it I think it's [ __ ] with
01:15:18
people's dopamine to a level that they
01:15:19
don't understand and you do because you
01:15:21
you dip into this stuff and you have
01:15:23
interest in it but you can't fire your
01:15:26
serotonin and see the moment the most
01:15:29
exciting terrifying funny moment in
01:15:31
every piece of media back to back to
01:15:33
back oh dopamine addiction it just the
01:15:36
next day people are feeling hung over
01:15:38
it's because they're [ __ ] with that
01:15:39
dopamine receptors in their brain and
01:15:40
then they can't have a normal
01:15:42
conversation they can't go to a normal
01:15:43
dinner or have a conversation like this
01:15:45
or feel happy having a walk and a long
01:15:47
talk I think this is one of the reasons
01:15:48
why I wouldn't bet against the reading
01:15:49
thing I'm aware it's lyic way less
01:15:51
hijacking but it feels like uh going to
01:15:55
rehab for your dopamine system it's one
01:15:57
of the few things it's hard that you can
01:15:59
only do it right you can watch a movie
01:16:01
in double screen you can be listening to
01:16:03
a podcast while scrolling Instagram yeah
01:16:05
you can you know you cannot read and do
01:16:08
anything else I'll tell you what I think
01:16:09
might win um my personal point of view
01:16:12
on this is I think that that content
01:16:14
will get turned into like um an AI chat
01:16:18
experience I Jason makes fun of me about
01:16:20
this but I do sit in my car when I I do
01:16:22
a lot of long drives now at my office
01:16:24
like Santa Crews and the city I drive a
01:16:26
lot and I talk to chat GPT advanced
01:16:29
voice but I'll talk about a topic and
01:16:31
I'll like learn about it and I'll engage
01:16:33
with it and I'll kind of go back and
01:16:34
forth but if I find if I flip on like a
01:16:37
like a book on tape or something my
01:16:39
brain wanders off and I got questions
01:16:40
and ideas and I'm like oh then I start
01:16:41
thinking about it and I realize oh man
01:16:43
three minutes have gone by and so for me
01:16:45
personally and maybe this is just the
01:16:46
way I'm wired like I kind of like the
01:16:48
interactive model but I do think this
01:16:49
great content like Jonathan Height's new
01:16:51
book gets put out as kind of an
01:16:52
interactive mode where I get to go it
01:16:55
starts telling me about it I can ask
01:16:56
questions and I it's almost like I'm
01:16:57
having a conversation with the author
01:16:59
that's we going back to the earlier
01:17:00
Point like the cultural experience is
01:17:02
the the book written by the author but
01:17:04
the way I experience it is going to be
01:17:05
different than the way you experience it
01:17:06
in an AI world I would love to look at
01:17:09
how people pay attention to a
01:17:11
conversation between multiple people
01:17:12
like a podcast compared with an audio
01:17:14
book and the author is trying their best
01:17:17
to come across with bounds and energy
01:17:19
and engagement and stuff like that but
01:17:22
really it's not and it's one person One
01:17:25
Tone going through recorded very
01:17:27
carefully whereas when you've got stuff
01:17:29
bouncing around even that author talking
01:17:31
about that book on a podcast why am I so
01:17:34
much more engaged there's something
01:17:35
about that which is more compelling so
01:17:37
it's the way humans are humans aren't
01:17:39
designed to sit on the floor and be
01:17:42
lectured to by another human humans are
01:17:44
designed to be social creatures to have
01:17:46
engagement to have that process and I
01:17:48
think that that's how it plates out in
01:17:49
our brain there's more of a responsive
01:17:51
chemistry to that I'm excited for this
01:17:54
pendulum to swing back and for people to
01:17:56
like read a book again or to watch a
01:17:59
kurasala film in a the that's that's 100
01:18:02
right no I mean you can't watch a
01:18:04
Kurosawa film and not feel I'll tell you
01:18:06
what you know I think for a lot of young
01:18:08
people they're missing out on some of
01:18:09
like the great Beauty in life is to be
01:18:12
able to give yourself over for two hours
01:18:14
to a Kurosawa film uh or to give
01:18:16
yourself over to a book for an hour just
01:18:20
but an hour and that's what we're going
01:18:22
to see I think in the coming years is
01:18:23
people are going to look at this like
01:18:25
they looked at junk food like they
01:18:26
looked at cigarettes and say this is not
01:18:28
healthy for me you've seen that uh list
01:18:31
of five regrets of the dying it's things
01:18:33
like I wish I'd allowed myself to be the
01:18:35
person I wanted to be not the person
01:18:36
others expected of me I wish I'd worked
01:18:38
less I wish I'd kept in touch with my
01:18:40
friends I would bet an awfully large
01:18:43
amount of money that one of them in
01:18:46
starting about 30 years time is going to
01:18:48
be I wish I spent less time on my phone
01:18:49
yeah and that's going to be I wish I
01:18:51
deleted Tik Tok great Point by the way
01:18:53
we're going to continue the conversation
01:18:55
guys join us thanking Chris and we're
01:18:56
going to invite the rest of the crew
01:18:57
back out oh yeah come on out
01:19:00
everybody ran come on up here's my
01:19:02
friend Brian Johnson come on up to you
01:19:05
too can we get him a microphone or
01:19:08
something um will you introduce
01:19:10
Brian uh yeah Brian Johnson um created a
01:19:14
payments company he was on this week in
01:19:16
startups years ago and then I looked up
01:19:18
and he um was sharing his nighttime
01:19:21
erections on social media
01:19:26
it's 3 hours and 12 minutes yes 3 hours
01:19:28
and 12 minutes we we just Ryan you're
01:19:30
you're Kardashian famous now yeah yeah
01:19:33
oh really you were on the Kardashians
01:19:35
yeah uh last week's episode you were on
01:19:37
last week's episode and um who was uh
01:19:42
you hanging out with Kim or which Khloe
01:19:44
this Andrew hubman who was the star of
01:19:46
the show who was Andrew hubman and Brian
01:19:48
that was my trump zinsky moment you two
01:19:50
in a room I'm
01:19:51
aware oh is this like East Coast West
01:19:53
Coast it's like CRI and bloods you guys
01:19:56
get along or is he we do get along yeah
01:19:57
we're friends you're friends yeah okay
01:20:00
what do you do together like the two of
01:20:02
you a secret I mean do you guys exchange
01:20:05
blood what's the
01:20:07
trans sus all in that I they do lab
01:20:11
tests they do lab tests on a Saturday
01:20:12
morning Spotify move to video I think
01:20:15
that's an interesting one to talk about
01:20:16
that's something people aren't really
01:20:17
sort of factoring in because you turn
01:20:19
what was an audio platform into is this
01:20:21
audio is this video now there's trailers
01:20:23
that you can see as well and they are
01:20:25
paying creators a uh pretty penny so we
01:20:29
were a part of the partner program for
01:20:33
January and February and we made more
01:20:35
money from them with only 10% of our
01:20:38
catalog uploaded than the entirety of
01:20:40
our YouTube AdSense so they are throwing
01:20:43
they're throwing everything at it to try
01:20:44
and take you do we don't uhhuh and we're
01:20:48
working on it yeah but we're working on
01:20:49
it but I think also like there's um I
01:20:51
think in all these platforms when they
01:20:53
when they announce a new monetization
01:20:55
model they need model citizens and I
01:20:58
think Chris like your show is a model
01:21:00
citizen for Spotify like they've put you
01:21:02
on billboards they're they're definitely
01:21:03
going like hey Golden Child yeah modern
01:21:05
wisdom is the show you want to be on
01:21:07
Spotify it's video it looks beautiful it
01:21:10
uploads quite a bit it has a big back
01:21:12
catalog so I think um I think it's a
01:21:14
really interesting model to me it feels
01:21:16
experimental I think if it works it's
01:21:18
great share of Premium subscription
01:21:20
revenue is awesome Ryan are you going to
01:21:22
be able to be within the vicinity of
01:21:24
that passive smoke I imagine this is
01:21:26
you're going to be counting down how
01:21:27
many minutes it's going to knock off
01:21:28
your life Jason what is this um that's a
01:21:31
pente it's a nice SC you can just chew
01:21:33
on it what's going to happen if I chew
01:21:35
on it you're going to get a little
01:21:36
nicotine hit and um you're going to
01:21:38
enjoy life for the first time in three
01:21:43
years goe I don't know I don't know if
01:21:45
this fits in the protocol I mean just
01:21:47
Che it come on like this see what I'm
01:21:49
doing here all
01:21:50
right should I do it wait hold on before
01:21:53
you before you say something
01:21:55
don't die is in your hands do I chew on
01:21:57
it no yes yes give give that was a very
01:22:03
clear response it's either that or you
01:22:05
got to do Chris's ketamine it's one or
01:22:07
the other which one are you do which one
01:22:10
CHR you do ketamine yeah we'll do it
01:22:11
backstage
01:22:12
come I'm an ex club promoter I do
01:22:15
everything yeah hey do you want the
01:22:16
cigar uh I'm okay thank you you did C
01:22:18
aine recently didn't you Brian I did
01:22:20
yeah I used uh so we we did we built a
01:22:23
brain interface at my company colonel we
01:22:24
were trying to build wearable fmri and
01:22:26
we had this question what happens when
01:22:28
you know there's like when you take an
01:22:29
SSRI or when you take ketamine and so
01:22:31
yeah I did a um a dose intramuscular
01:22:34
dose and we measured my brain 30 days
01:22:36
before the ketamine during ketamine and
01:22:38
then for was an injection you snorted or
01:22:41
you did the spr injection we did the max
01:22:43
FDA lad Mount and what was cool is we
01:22:45
saw you just did it on yourself you're
01:22:46
like I'm just going to max out right
01:22:48
just like no we had an IRB we had it
01:22:50
approved ethically and what we saw so
01:22:52
sorry just real quick have you done k
01:22:54
before this no first time so you're just
01:22:56
chilling you're like I'm going to max
01:22:57
out on ketamine I just want to make sure
01:23:00
I really get this like I want to get
01:23:01
your mindset we wanted to see the effect
01:23:03
you so like we had when you say we you
01:23:04
know there just you right like well okay
01:23:07
so we spent six years building this
01:23:09
brain interface we built a custom Asic
01:23:12
we we like pushed it through Co like it
01:23:13
was like an all-in effort you don't have
01:23:16
like an intern or 23y old analyst or
01:23:18
something to be maed out on C me like
01:23:20
well I was also doing blueprint so I was
01:23:22
like you know this is interesting like
01:23:23
what what actually happens to the brain
01:23:25
when and so like you think about so so
01:23:28
you put this helmet on your head and
01:23:29
think of your brain like uh a globe it
01:23:31
has airports all around you see traffic
01:23:33
like New York to Tokyo and so my
01:23:35
patterns were very fixed in that 30 Days
01:23:37
running up to ketamine and then I did
01:23:38
ketamine and it just scrambles your
01:23:41
brain like all the traffic patterns are
01:23:43
just remixed and then uh two or three
01:23:45
days afterwards it it drops so now
01:23:47
you're like a openminded to new patterns
01:23:50
and then days three four five you come
01:23:51
up to your old patterns again so that's
01:23:53
why it makes sense that there's this
01:23:54
therapeutic window where if you do a
01:23:55
psychedelic you're open to new ideas and
01:23:57
doing things yeah but so like there was
01:24:00
on the second day I was in the office
01:24:01
and we were walking in between meetings
01:24:02
we have these big walls and I thought
01:24:04
why don't I just jump over that wall
01:24:05
like why am I going to take this long
01:24:07
route I just jumped over the wall not
01:24:08
thinking about it like Brian what are
01:24:09
you doing jumping over a wall but it
01:24:12
just I did really behave uh differently
01:24:15
and I had the way I thought the way I
01:24:16
behaved I couldn't really see my
01:24:17
patterns very well but because we were
01:24:19
all watching it so closely but it was
01:24:21
cool now we have the ability to say what
01:24:23
happens when anything but you could have
01:24:25
done gotten that information without
01:24:28
doing that like well no no I think what
01:24:31
you're referring to is you know this
01:24:33
phenomenon where uh it kind of rrags
01:24:36
your your your hard drive a bit and you
01:24:38
disconnect from reality have did you
01:24:40
disassociate a bit did you see yourself
01:24:42
outside of your own body did you see
01:24:44
like you're here and Brian Johnson's
01:24:46
here and then there's a universe and
01:24:47
then you go past the universe and you're
01:24:48
in that space that's outside the
01:24:49
universe how much have you done same
01:24:51
same place same trip same place yeah
01:24:53
I've been there um it's pretty great
01:24:55
sorry Brian let me let me just so there
01:24:57
have been a lot of studies on um this
01:24:59
kind of neural plasticity that arises
01:25:01
when you take these you get like maximal
01:25:03
neuroplastic like basically the neurons
01:25:05
are out searching for new connections it
01:25:07
really kind of activates those cells to
01:25:09
go hunting and people get rewired that's
01:25:12
why trauma can get rewired out of your
01:25:13
brain and you can learn new stuff and
01:25:15
develop new experiences but it can also
01:25:17
have profound changes on people's
01:25:19
psychology motivations other sort of
01:25:21
factors have you noticed any of that
01:25:22
kind of residual effect motivation Chang
01:25:25
point of view has changed personalities
01:25:27
are different relationships or people
01:25:28
like you're different you're X Y or Z
01:25:30
you're not Brian where that's kind of
01:25:32
affected you in a way it was only one
01:25:34
time so I didn't notice anything in
01:25:35
particular it was really that that acute
01:25:37
like two or three window I think if I
01:25:39
would have paired some therapy in there
01:25:40
I probably could have done something
01:25:41
meaningful but I didn't like I we just
01:25:43
were really looking at the quantitative
01:25:44
measurements but yeah I mean it really
01:25:46
you're right like it scrambles the brain
01:25:48
it was cool to see it because before
01:25:49
this nobody had ever seen ketamine on
01:25:51
the brain you don't see the patterns
01:25:53
that are in place you don't see what's
01:25:54
scrambled you don't see when they reform
01:25:57
and like you can take these patterns
01:25:58
think of like a 96 by 96 grid you can
01:26:01
use these patterns to assess
01:26:02
intelligence emotions character traits
01:26:05
like it's very informative and so these
01:26:07
things when you uh assess and you
01:26:09
reassemble you really can induce a lot
01:26:11
of you infer a lot of things about the
01:26:13
person yeah I mean we're joking about it
01:26:14
here but um you know I have uh some
01:26:17
friends who have spent a great deal of
01:26:19
time money and effort on um the maps
01:26:23
project Tim Ferris a number of my
01:26:26
friends have um really worked on this in
01:26:28
a clinical
01:26:29
session and setting and it can have a
01:26:34
profound impact on PTSD on relationships
01:26:38
on trauma but I just want to give people
01:26:39
like a caveat here that these are
01:26:42
extremely powerful modalities and you
01:26:44
need to do them in the proper setting
01:26:46
the set the setting the dose are all
01:26:48
extremely important but people with PTSD
01:26:52
you know are coming out of you know know
01:26:54
911 my brother's a firefighter a lot of
01:26:56
firefighters in New York and First
01:26:58
Responders uh you know they haven't
01:27:00
gotten over it and and they've gone to
01:27:02
some of these um sessions and they've
01:27:04
come out of it and they and they' found
01:27:06
peace and it can process you know what
01:27:10
can't be done in a hundred sessions of
01:27:12
psychotherapy can get processed in two
01:27:13
or three of these sessions I think it's
01:27:15
very important that we we take it
01:27:17
seriously um even though some people are
01:27:19
doing it at Burning Man and having fun
01:27:21
with it I get it people want to do that
01:27:23
a dependency risk with katamine that
01:27:25
there isn't with a lot of the other
01:27:27
substances that you can use too this is
01:27:29
the problem is and it's interesting my
01:27:31
my friend Tony Shay passed and he uh got
01:27:34
addicted to camine specifically and it
01:27:36
it disassociated him and that's the
01:27:38
problem with the recreational use or the
01:27:40
use alone Chris there's a lot of very
01:27:43
you know notable CEOs I know friends who
01:27:46
have gotten into it and they've had good
01:27:49
intention and then maybe they're at home
01:27:51
watching Netflix or YouTube and they are
01:27:55
doing it out of boredom and that's where
01:27:57
it gets very pricious and I just be
01:27:59
careful can we go back just to the
01:28:01
content creator piece Brian I mean you
01:28:04
basically um started talking about don't
01:28:07
die and you've created quite a bit of
01:28:10
content around this what's the model for
01:28:12
building a business where you did you
01:28:14
actively think hey I got to build an
01:28:15
audience to get this effort to be
01:28:18
successful yeah no we actually didn't uh
01:28:20
so Kate my co-founder is here with me we
01:28:22
we were posing the question um we
01:28:25
thought it's a cool question to ask are
01:28:26
we the first generation who won't die
01:28:29
you know it's kind of like in in 1870
01:28:32
you're back in there you hear in town
01:28:34
people are like hey there's this new
01:28:35
weird idea there's this guy saying that
01:28:37
there's these microscopic objects
01:28:39
they're called bacteria or something
01:28:40
like that they cause infection they lead
01:28:42
to death and then others are like that's
01:28:44
stupid as [ __ ] because really it's just
01:28:46
you know it's bad spirits we know that's
01:28:47
causing the situation and so if you're
01:28:49
getting into surgery you really care to
01:28:51
know is this a correct idea or incorrect
01:28:53
idea
01:28:54
and turns out bacteria are real they
01:28:57
actually cause infection they can lead
01:28:58
to death and I think the parallel here
01:29:00
for us right now is like are we legit
01:29:02
the first generation who won't die and
01:29:04
so that was our our effort just actually
01:29:06
scientifically go doing that and then uh
01:29:08
someone did a Twitter thread on this and
01:29:10
it just went viral like 50 million views
01:29:12
and we're like what the you know what's
01:29:13
going on this tsunami of hate came our
01:29:16
way and it was just like there's so much
01:29:19
raw energy under this topic we didn't
01:29:21
know that was the case and so yeah we've
01:29:23
just been trying to basically take
01:29:24
people along the Journey of like this is
01:29:26
what we're doing so content should been
01:29:28
like a
01:29:29
um an afterthought to a primary Mission
01:29:33
and now it's a primary modality for us
01:29:34
to go after this and you productized it
01:29:37
I I came home my wife was I was joking
01:29:39
about the Nutty pudding it's I mean it's
01:29:42
not my favorite but it's healthy and
01:29:43
I've had it a couple times I eat it and
01:29:45
my wife's got the whole cupboard filled
01:29:46
with blueprint stuff I was told the
01:29:49
whisper numberers over $100 million in
01:29:51
sales yeah we'll be we'll be $100
01:29:53
million unless in 12 months and so but
01:29:55
the but the goal was not to make money
01:29:57
it was like it so it went viral and
01:29:58
people were like I love this I want to
01:30:00
do it but it's so damn hard right you
01:30:02
have to like Source all this stuff and
01:30:04
we had learned ourselves that when we
01:30:05
Source things that most labels are
01:30:08
incorrect most things are toxic and
01:30:09
there like a disaster out there so we
01:30:11
started sourcing our own stuff and so
01:30:13
like well why do we why don't we just
01:30:14
package this up like cpg sucks it's the
01:30:17
worst business in the world so we were
01:30:19
legit like do the world solid like make
01:30:21
this available like we've worked so hard
01:30:23
to make this available and it's
01:30:25
impossible to do unless you're all you
01:30:26
losing money or you make it just a very
01:30:28
modest profit margin very yeah so we're
01:30:29
almost basically break even got it so
01:30:31
it's a for break even not a four not a
01:30:33
nonprofit and Chris you're you're
01:30:34
drinking this new category of Beverage
01:30:36
you created maybe you could talk a
01:30:37
little bit about your intent with your
01:30:40
product yeah I think one of the easiest
01:30:41
hacks can we get a couple of these out
01:30:43
here I want to drink I'm losing my
01:30:44
energy thank you uh I think go Jonathan
01:30:46
one of the easiest hacks that you can do
01:30:48
if you want to be successful in cpg is
01:30:49
take something that people are already
01:30:51
consuming Source it better improve the
01:30:53
formula and then put it back out right
01:30:55
you know a better for you dot dot dot a
01:30:58
better for you pair of underwear a
01:30:59
better for you chocolate bar a better
01:31:01
for you hydration drink so we made a
01:31:02
better few energy drink so
01:31:04
evidence-based research backed neut
01:31:06
Tropic ingredients efficacious doses
01:31:07
blah blah blah and we bootstrapped it
01:31:09
and I got to build it from the ground
01:31:10
floor up and create the brand and come
01:31:12
up with the copy the shoots and
01:31:14
everything else and uh and I love it and
01:31:16
now we've got to the stage where some
01:31:17
really big players are sniffing around
01:31:18
and we've only been in the market for 18
01:31:20
months are you guys going to do a cpg
01:31:22
business it's kind of the trend is your
01:31:25
what would you do what what are you
01:31:26
going to do I mean we're a little bit
01:31:28
different in that like our value prop is
01:31:30
uh Creator education so we try and think
01:31:31
like what is an extension of our value
01:31:33
prop and for us you know digital Goods
01:31:35
courses that's like a direct extension
01:31:36
so that's what we have as much as Brian
01:31:38
is a content creator I will say like I
01:31:40
came across Brian's content I was
01:31:42
marginally interested kind of like you
01:31:44
know confused by it then got invited to
01:31:46
one of his dinners and and I really
01:31:47
commend you for doing the dinners
01:31:49
because I think the dinners like it's
01:31:51
very unscalable but it actually creates
01:31:53
lot of scale and people come to those
01:31:56
dinners like me I've been talking about
01:31:57
that dinner for I don't know when that
01:31:58
was six seven months ago and telling a
01:32:00
lot of people about it and it was a very
01:32:01
impactful event and I think actually
01:32:03
like the creators today who are doing
01:32:06
things like this getting people together
01:32:07
physically uh uh last week when we were
01:32:10
here there's a Creator named Jake Shane
01:32:12
sold out the Moody Center it was about
01:32:13
3,000 people he he started as a Tik Tok
01:32:15
Creator up there for an hour and a half
01:32:17
by himself doing comedy amazing and it's
01:32:19
amazing and I think like getting people
01:32:21
together and actually having like face
01:32:22
Toof face impact that's where I think
01:32:26
you can build a product like you know
01:32:27
how we was saying it's going to be
01:32:28
lovely if there's a a counter movement
01:32:30
against the Tik Tock ification very
01:32:32
short form video I do get the sense that
01:32:35
uh coffee and chill do you know what
01:32:37
that is if you heard of coffee and chill
01:32:38
uh or mushroom Cowboy these are daytime
01:32:40
sober R oh I saw this on Tik Tok yeah so
01:32:43
Parx you know a couple of hours on a
01:32:45
Saturday or a Sunday from 10:00 a.m. or
01:32:46
midday or something like that and uh I
01:32:48
think that what we're seeing is the
01:32:50
equivalent here of the work from
01:32:52
anywhere digital Nomad degenerate wake
01:32:55
up whenever you want fuel yourself with
01:32:56
caffeine and get back get to work and
01:32:59
this is the backlash against that which
01:33:00
is people are desperate for in-person
01:33:02
events they're desperate for stuff like
01:33:04
this and it's not just this you think
01:33:06
about any conference you've ever been to
01:33:08
the speakers cool whatever they're the
01:33:10
headliners you go to see but what you're
01:33:12
really there for are the conversations
01:33:13
in the foyer in between the different
01:33:16
events I got to say like the higher the
01:33:18
higher the barrier sometimes the bigger
01:33:19
the fan right like your episodes are 3
01:33:21
hours long that's a pretty big barrier
01:33:23
like you get to the end you're invested
01:33:25
like you're a fan of you guys I think
01:33:26
the same thing with events right like
01:33:28
there are Brands and creators now that
01:33:29
are starting with events oh I think it
01:33:31
makes so much sense me think about like
01:33:33
you give up your um your form of social
01:33:37
engagement in a kind of free way not a
01:33:39
structured way as soon as you're done
01:33:40
with college and then you're at the
01:33:42
workplace and at the workplace if you're
01:33:44
working in an office it's like you got
01:33:45
the thing to do and you're done then you
01:33:47
go like where else do you have this kind
01:33:48
of social engagement at scale they also
01:33:50
pre-selecting you know as you say if
01:33:53
it's a a three-hour long podcast it's a
01:33:55
really Niche topic you know it's a
01:33:56
particular series of Warhammer 40K that
01:33:59
not many people know about or it's some
01:34:01
weird Japanese anime like you are
01:34:03
pre-selecting for people like you
01:34:05
assuming that you're interested in it
01:34:06
this is why Reddit is so good right it's
01:34:08
Reddit is a website filled with people
01:34:11
who couldn't find others to have that
01:34:13
discussion with in their Hometown right
01:34:15
true that's very true it's very true
01:34:17
well you know I just want to point out
01:34:18
with these cpg products the the creators
01:34:22
who are making them like when you two
01:34:24
gentlemen make something or saak is
01:34:26
making this all in tequila or where's my
01:34:28
super gut bars and he has super gut
01:34:31
which is fantastic the the peanut butter
01:34:33
one is pretty good
01:34:34
um you know that freeberg is not making
01:34:37
super gut or you're not making blueprint
01:34:39
or you're not making tonic new tonic
01:34:42
you're not doing it because you want to
01:34:45
maximize profitability you want to be
01:34:48
proud of it you want to know that the
01:34:51
person buying it had a great EXP and it
01:34:54
was good for them right bu was a hole
01:34:56
that didn't exist and the other thing
01:34:58
which I'm sure you guys have have sensed
01:34:59
as well the online course is the best
01:35:02
way if you want to the margins are
01:35:04
amazing the scale is just fantastic but
01:35:06
you never get to see someone holding
01:35:08
your course if you get to see you do if
01:35:12
you do it as cohorts which we which we
01:35:14
have done uh you do get to see them
01:35:16
digitally and now our you know our idea
01:35:19
is to actually go hey can we take that
01:35:20
and have that be also entry into a live
01:35:24
Workshop or live session that's gonna
01:35:25
Crush perilously close to like the
01:35:28
Creator Tony Robins I can see you on
01:35:30
stage I'll I'll make I'll make a bet
01:35:32
right now that'll make you guys more
01:35:33
money than anything else combined yeah I
01:35:34
think that's by far your your question
01:35:36
that you asked before was like how does
01:35:38
that compare like right now the reality
01:35:39
is like in a single check a brand deal
01:35:42
you know makes more money when it's one
01:35:43
client but as what we're what we're
01:35:45
watching right now in the course
01:35:46
business is like you know a hundred
01:35:49
people on an $800 product is significant
01:35:52
a th000 people gets even more
01:35:54
significant cuz you guys will sell
01:35:56
tickets to the live event but the
01:35:57
sponsors to get that targeted audience
01:35:59
in a captive way will pay you more than
01:36:00
they'll pay for the online that's what
01:36:02
you guys also think about the value prop
01:36:04
for you know people go to school they go
01:36:06
$50,000 $250,000 in debt and then what I
01:36:10
hear from young people all the time is
01:36:12
they go take a course afterwards and
01:36:14
that course for $800 does more from them
01:36:16
in the market place and getting jobs
01:36:19
than the degree did and I think this
01:36:22
roll your own education
01:36:24
is very similar to function Health in in
01:36:26
a way which is like I'm going to take
01:36:28
control of it I'm not going to have an
01:36:29
MD direct My Healthcare I'm going to get
01:36:32
my blood work myself I'm going to do my
01:36:35
research I'm going to go on chat chpt or
01:36:37
Gro or whatever I'm going to ask about
01:36:38
peptides I'm going to ask about this I'm
01:36:39
going to cross reference it I'm going to
01:36:41
listen to your podcast or huberman you
01:36:43
know whatever and I think that this
01:36:46
self- riancy and this new category of
01:36:48
products and services that are available
01:36:51
it kind of resets this IND rization that
01:36:54
occurred I'm sure Proctor and Gamble and
01:36:56
some of these things didn't start out
01:36:58
with the evil intent that is now in
01:37:00
their product and in their system you
01:37:02
got to cut that out well I don't give a
01:37:04
[ __ ] I'm noton Proctor give a [ __ ] the
01:37:07
pry die ining kid
01:37:11
cereal gam them and their cereals Mills
01:37:16
can go they're a bad guys I don't give a
01:37:18
[ __ ] about their
01:37:19
sponsorship seriously I guarantee you're
01:37:21
using Proctor gamble toothpaste in about
01:37:23
three hour no no no I got that
01:37:25
Tom My Wife puts me on all this [ __ ] I'm
01:37:28
telling you they literally are putting
01:37:31
dye in children's cereal they're putting
01:37:33
corn syrup in children's cereal they're
01:37:35
poisoning the [ __ ] country to make an
01:37:38
extra two three four or five cents what
01:37:40
the what's the word you used you were
01:37:41
talking about the word England you use
01:37:44
the c word ah yes so I agree Jason guys
01:37:49
right so we can cut it but I agree um
01:37:53
but I mean so we just launched a new
01:37:55
Endeavor called Don't Die certified and
01:37:56
we're testing foods go oh yeah let's go
01:38:00
baby foods Pet Foods uh all packaged
01:38:03
foods and we got the early results back
01:38:05
you got the receipts we do and so yeah
01:38:08
how bad is it worse worse than you think
01:38:11
yeah sorry what did you test Brian what
01:38:12
did you test D did yeah uh so we're
01:38:15
doing heavy metals heavy metals you them
01:38:17
we're doing glycate some other
01:38:19
agrochemicals and then maybe a a few F
01:38:22
what's the worst product you got so far
01:38:24
so we okay uh we got results back from
01:38:27
have you done any fights have you done
01:38:29
Plastics or is that separ yes we're
01:38:30
doing that too so we'll probably have it
01:38:32
later there's less evidence around that
01:38:33
yeah but yes like the cool model we're
01:38:34
doing is if you can you find your food
01:38:36
go to the website we'll launch this next
01:38:38
week yeah find your find your food and
01:38:40
say I want this tested so you can then
01:38:41
put up the money if you get enough money
01:38:43
so it what does that cost three or four
01:38:45
grand no like 500 bucks what wow doing
01:38:49
crowdfunding other people that also eat
01:38:52
that thing from sweet green can like I
01:38:53
want to know if it's got loads of
01:38:54
Plastics in it exactly so then the test
01:38:56
gets triggered results come back and
01:38:57
then we go to the brand and we say hey
01:38:59
come claim your product so they then
01:39:01
come back and we say all right now you
01:39:03
pay back the people who funded your
01:39:04
tests like you should have been testing
01:39:06
in the first place so they're doing the
01:39:08
work for you so we want us we want to do
01:39:09
the food oh in the US we want to test
01:39:12
20% of foods that make up 80% of the US
01:39:14
diet so then we can say on average the
01:39:16
average American consumes blank you know
01:39:18
Mercury per day or cadum or whatever so
01:39:21
we tested a few of the things we looked
01:39:22
at diapers
01:39:24
um there was a dangerously high level of
01:39:26
glycate in diapers with the cotton uh
01:39:29
cotton exactly Round Up ready cotton
01:39:30
exactly and then we also tested
01:39:33
tampons brand High heavy metals which
01:39:36
brands heavy metals call them out right
01:39:38
now we can't yet so we we are okay we
01:39:41
got the test soon exactly so we're going
01:39:42
to work reveal the first few ones but uh
01:39:44
dog food was really bad which makes
01:39:47
sense dogss have been living you know
01:39:48
their shorter lives now but yeah once
01:39:50
you start seeing this it's really uh
01:39:52
pretty have you guys checked out plastic
01:39:53
list.org do you see that n oh yeah
01:39:56
that's another Rich dude spending his
01:39:57
money intelligently I love it no I me
01:40:02
but I look this hold on a second this
01:40:04
guy I don't it's all I know it's super
01:40:06
hyperbolic but like just the plastic
01:40:08
thing it's really important to note they
01:40:10
they rank things but you also have to
01:40:12
look at the absolute numbers this is
01:40:14
where this can get a little too carried
01:40:16
away I I think that there's a lot of
01:40:18
shocking [ __ ] in there that's super bad
01:40:20
but you've also got to recognize that a
01:40:22
tiny amount that's like one one
01:40:23
trillionth of something that could ever
01:40:25
affect your body they'll flush out may
01:40:27
not be that bad so we've got to be
01:40:28
really cognizant on how we interpret
01:40:30
this stuff these [ __ ] knew a
01:40:32
whole time they were doing it they knew
01:40:34
who's they were these the
01:40:38
industrial third of aonic and you got
01:40:41
fired up thank you this great this is a
01:40:43
great no I'm telling you I'm so I have I
01:40:48
am so furied about this because these
01:40:50
people you know it's true you know it's
01:40:52
true they they knew they were doing this
01:40:56
and it takes some rich guy who's bored
01:40:59
and principled no offense I love you you
01:41:01
know I love you and the who's the guy
01:41:04
who's doing the plasticor Zach um not
01:41:06
Freeman oh not Freeman sorry another
01:41:09
Rich internet guy he's like you know
01:41:11
what I'm bored these guys are screwing
01:41:12
people over I'm going to test Plastics
01:41:14
Annie hary turns up with 400,000
01:41:16
signatures outside of Kellogg's HQ and
01:41:18
says you makeing the same Factory the
01:41:21
Canadian version which uses betr
01:41:23
coloring and and and carrot coloring to
01:41:25
make it and the exact same Factory is
01:41:27
throwing red 40 and yeah like to get the
01:41:31
back Jason on this so Gerber so there's
01:41:33
a law passing by California that said
01:41:34
baby food providers have to disclose
01:41:36
heavy metals in their Foods so it went
01:41:38
into effect January 1 and so we go to
01:41:40
Gerber's website where all Heavy medals
01:41:42
uh yeah I think the four four big and so
01:41:44
it's like okay so we go to G's website I
01:41:46
can't find heavy metals results anywhere
01:41:49
and then I realized my vpn's on and I'm
01:41:51
coming from a server outside of uh
01:41:53
California they've IP blocked no way to
01:41:56
yep California only IP origination and
01:41:59
they hide it and so this is what I'm
01:42:01
saying these companies like these are
01:42:02
nefarious it's really not not good I
01:42:05
mean what do you think of uh Bobby
01:42:07
Kennedy friend of the Pod and you know
01:42:10
uh him taking this on for Maha I don't
01:42:12
want to make it political but how do we
01:42:13
get to
01:42:15
this happen freeberg this is the good
01:42:18
[ __ ] man this is the good [ __ ]
01:42:21
like yeah they love it man this is this
01:42:23
is the this is how all works we take
01:42:26
little detours we take detours this is a
01:42:29
side quest worth
01:42:30
taking give me one of your nicotine
01:42:34
drinks J B there's others there's others
01:42:37
in the other Green Room there's some in
01:42:38
the other Green Room okay I'm okay I did
01:42:40
I did a lot of drugs earli what do you
01:42:43
think of Bobby Kennedy I I think he is
01:42:46
going to challenge status quo power and
01:42:48
I think that's going to create a lot of
01:42:49
conflict and a lot of reconfigurations I
01:42:51
think it'll refrag like the ref there's
01:42:54
a lot look the thing there's a lot of
01:42:55
really important questions being asked
01:42:57
that are not asked in the way that they
01:42:58
that they're being asked now that's the
01:43:00
most important thing is the system needs
01:43:02
to be challenged and whatever's left
01:43:04
will get hardened and whatever shouldn't
01:43:06
be there will get blasted away and
01:43:08
that's it but you got to name and shame
01:43:10
the thing that really pisses me off you
01:43:12
got to name and shame in order for them
01:43:14
to do what's right that's what's so
01:43:17
[ __ ] up they want to do want to do you
01:43:19
want to do any of the amas or I mean I
01:43:22
don't know felt like this was going in a
01:43:24
nice
01:43:24
Direction I enjoyed the I got I got to
01:43:27
do the conversation I find enjoyable
01:43:29
just see if there's any cool amas if
01:43:30
people ask these questions I've got a
01:43:31
question for Brian in the meantime I'll
01:43:33
look for a good question sure Brian if
01:43:34
you were to without someone having to
01:43:36
completely decimate their entire diet
01:43:38
and never look at meat again what would
01:43:40
you say is sort of top triaged Lifestyle
01:43:44
Changes most people should look at
01:43:45
making uh based on what it is that you
01:43:47
guys have looked at yeah I mean the
01:43:49
power lws are so clear sleep is like by
01:43:51
far away the biggest power law uh then
01:43:54
exercise number two diet number three
01:43:57
and so it's just being consistent on
01:43:58
those three things and once you get
01:43:59
those two those three layers you can go
01:44:00
down other layers but like what we've
01:44:02
tried to do is we tried to say anything
01:44:05
which increases my speed of Aging is a
01:44:07
form of die so how do you eliminate that
01:44:09
and then we just started with the power
01:44:10
law so I start with zero all the way
01:44:13
down and just yeah top three things for
01:44:15
Sleep uh so the the thing you want to do
01:44:17
is you want to lower so the key marker
01:44:20
is lowering your resting heart rate
01:44:22
before bed is the number I'd say if you
01:44:24
could Mark if you could optimize one
01:44:25
marker in your entire life it's that so
01:44:28
before you go to bed tonight look at a
01:44:29
wearable or take your pulse it's your
01:44:31
resting heart rate so tonight let's just
01:44:33
say you're at 55 so your goal of the
01:44:35
next week or two is to try to get down
01:44:37
to 50 the next month 45 and as you do
01:44:40
that so the way you drive it down is you
01:44:41
have your final meal of the day at least
01:44:42
two hours before bedtime so if you go to
01:44:44
bed at 10: be done at 8 and then push it
01:44:46
back an hour gu like 30 minutes each day
01:44:50
and as you push it back more uh every
01:44:52
day your heart rate is going to go down
01:44:53
incrementally because your body has more
01:44:55
time to digest so then you also find
01:44:57
that food you eat like if you eat a big
01:44:58
pasta or or um pizza or something it
01:45:02
will jack up the heart rate so mine
01:45:03
right now is 44 beats per minute so if I
01:45:06
eat late in the day if my last meal of
01:45:07
the day is at noon and I did that after
01:45:09
like a few hundred experiments of like
01:45:10
what optimizes my resting heart rate if
01:45:13
I have a big meal like a five or six
01:45:15
I'll be up like low 50s and that will
01:45:17
take away about 30 to 40% of my sleep so
01:45:19
you go to sleep super hungry actually
01:45:21
I'm okay yeah my body is really adapted
01:45:23
so food is really a big one and then two
01:45:25
is wind down routine so you need to calm
01:45:27
yourself down you can't have your phone
01:45:28
up you need to turn it off give yourself
01:45:30
like 30 to 60 Minutes decompressed in
01:45:32
the day CU leave leave your kids in the
01:45:34
house and go sleep in the garage yeah uh
01:45:37
no no warm shower that that could help
01:45:40
and actually a book in hand has uh
01:45:43
probably the best evidence yeah so it's
01:45:45
what Chris was saying right it's like
01:45:46
you can't do anything so screen off book
01:45:48
in hand spend even 10 minutes and you'll
01:45:51
be amazed at how much it'll calm you
01:45:52
down
01:45:53
yeah there's some cool stuff around
01:45:54
people thought it was the blue light
01:45:56
from screens that were impacting
01:45:57
melatonin release and cortisol and stuff
01:45:59
as you went to sleep it seems like it's
01:46:01
much more what you're interacting with
01:46:03
on the phone that you're so engaged that
01:46:05
dopamine's firing you're probably
01:46:06
getting riled up about you sending stuff
01:46:08
to friends it's triggering all of these
01:46:10
ideas in you as opposed to if you just
01:46:12
sit down and read Red Rising or
01:46:13
something by PS Brown and you go off to
01:46:15
sleep dreaming about being it exactly
01:46:16
and you and you can measure it by how
01:46:18
much your heart rate goes up or down so
01:46:20
you now have a quantitative Benchmark
01:46:22
every single day you could pck that
01:46:23
those habits uh regularity versus
01:46:26
duration what's more important uh
01:46:28
consistency is so important because your
01:46:30
body tells time like a clock like when I
01:46:32
was I did eight months of perfect sleep
01:46:34
100% sleep every night to show I could
01:46:35
do high quality sleep you tracking on
01:46:37
whoop or you tracking
01:46:39
on yeah and they they tend to are pretty
01:46:42
close no oh yeah I mean like they're all
01:46:45
they're all relative comparisons they're
01:46:47
not absolute so just stick find one
01:46:50
they're all fine yeah this is the been
01:46:53
the big unlock for me I am now sleeping
01:46:55
I got a 94 last night I got a 99 two
01:46:58
nights ago it's my highest score ever
01:46:59
I'm I'm really dying in the sleep and
01:47:02
has changed everything for me it's the
01:47:04
biggest life Improvement you can do
01:47:07
period it's the best in performance Hing
01:47:09
drug it is like it is just better than
01:47:11
anything on Market but like be
01:47:12
consistent because your deep sleep
01:47:14
window happens in the first two hours of
01:47:16
night and so that's when the the garbage
01:47:18
trash collector comes through to pick up
01:47:20
all the trash in your body if you miss
01:47:22
that window you miss it so you missed
01:47:23
the garbage trash collection so that's
01:47:25
why pick your bedtime and be consistent
01:47:28
otherwise you get junk
01:47:30
accumulation on the inverse of that I
01:47:32
have a six week old baby so I have like
01:47:34
the least consistent sleep right now how
01:47:37
long can I Endure
01:47:40
that I'll tell you two things that also
01:47:42
worked for me because I sometimes sleep
01:47:43
with my bulldog and that was killing it
01:47:46
but I got these um nice uh headphones
01:47:49
and um I'll listen to some uh really
01:47:52
high High Fidelity sleep music uh and
01:47:54
use an eye mask and both of those added
01:47:56
a couple of points and that was really a
01:47:58
good unlock for me how about how you
01:48:00
sleeping Chris yeah pretty good pretty
01:48:01
good thank you yeah audio book as I go
01:48:03
to sleep turn that off and uh you've
01:48:05
probably got a problem with the ionizing
01:48:06
radiation nonionizing radiation you
01:48:09
bothered about Bluetooth headphones
01:48:10
Brian uh no oh that's good that's the
01:48:13
first thing I've proposed to you that
01:48:15
I'm still allowed to do in my life
01:48:17
everything else is like the fun police
01:48:18
that comes in and tells me everything's
01:48:20
the die police I guess yeah I'm actually
01:48:22
I'm actually the happy police right like
01:48:24
the [ __ ] I say it makes you happy people
01:48:27
they have this misconception that like
01:48:28
staying up late and missing bedtime and
01:48:30
drinking is happy it's not it is sad it
01:48:32
makes you depressed and we have to be
01:48:35
honest like we think it's happy it's not
01:48:37
well listen thank you to all of our
01:48:38
guests and you know you're very busy I
01:48:40
really appreciate you coming here I know
01:48:41
that you've been busy and
01:48:42
congratulations on the big win for no
01:48:44
foru um that was
01:48:46
great that's an Oscar's reference thank
01:48:49
you to the people who got it but
01:48:50
seriously are you worried because I I
01:48:53
mean yeah I are you sure what you're
01:48:56
doing like this extreme is a good
01:48:59
idea I'm I'm a little concerned you
01:49:01
might be turning into a vampire I don't
01:49:03
know you are doing the blood transfusion
01:49:06
yeah you know I did it because my dad
01:49:08
was experiencing cognitive decline and
01:49:10
he called and he called me in a panic
01:49:12
and he said I will do anything to save
01:49:13
my my Consciousness and so I did it for
01:49:16
him so the headlines was all about my
01:49:17
son and my and and my me but well you
01:49:19
did a transfusion with your dad yeah
01:49:21
that was a after doing it with your son
01:49:23
yeah so I pre generational yeah so my
01:49:25
dad called me he's like okay I'm
01:49:26
experiencing C so he was writing
01:49:28
something for work he walked away and he
01:49:30
came back and it was a jumbled mess and
01:49:32
he's like I'm experiencing cognitive
01:49:34
decline and I can't see it he said when
01:49:36
I thought I would start like forgetting
01:49:38
names or like missing keys but like
01:49:40
right there in front of me I didn't see
01:49:42
the jumble mess so he called me he's
01:49:43
like I'm panicking and so I was like Dad
01:49:45
we're actually looking at this new
01:49:46
evidence on these plasma infusions I'm
01:49:48
happy to give you a plasma if you you
01:49:50
want to try it like we don't know if
01:49:51
it's going to work or not so then my son
01:49:53
heard and he's like I'm in like we'll do
01:49:55
a tri generational thing like great it's
01:49:57
a family activity is there any empirical
01:49:59
evidence of this yes this is we we
01:50:01
should talk about this another time but
01:50:03
this is there's a lot of good work on
01:50:05
this this you think that this is a path
01:50:07
work pursuing this is I mean it's longer
01:50:09
conversation Chris what are you doing
01:50:11
after you want to do some transfuse I'm
01:50:13
doing cing with
01:50:14
Brian okay can we transfuse as
