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all right everybody Welcome to episode
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149 of the Allin podcast with me again
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David saaks and chamat poopa David
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freeberg couldn't make it this week
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we're going to carry on without him and
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it's a difficult week so just a quick
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opening statement from me about this
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episode like all of you we're devastated
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by the terrorist attacks that occurred
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in Israel on Saturday and I just want to
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start the discussion here with two
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important housekeeping notes first uh
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this is obviously a very Dynamic
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situation and we're dealing with the fog
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of War quite literally so we're going to
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do our best to make sense of what's
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happening but things will change between
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when we tape this episode on Thursday
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and you choose to listen to it in all
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likelihood at some point over the
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weekend and second there are going to be
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some folks out there who claim quite
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correctly that we are not the experts on
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this topic and thus we shouldn't chime
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in with our opinions on the other side
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the all-in community has told me
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explicitly they want to hear us discuss
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uh what happened and they want a sense
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of normaly as one loyal listener
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explained to me last night at a dinner
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the fact that the four of you can debate
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hard topics listen to each other and in
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the end have a deeper understanding of
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the world gives me hope every week
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that's why I listen so uh we'll do what
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we do here every week we'll have the
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hard discussion we'll listen to each
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other deeply hopefully and we'll try to
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understand the world and each other just
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a little bit more and that's worth it at
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least to me and apparently many of you
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so with those two quick disclaimers
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gentlemen anything you want to say up
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front before I recap where we are 5 days
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into this senseless brutality I think
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that was a pretty good intro Jason I
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mean you're right we're taping on
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Thursday late morning Pacific Time by
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the time this drops it'll be Friday and
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so a lot could have happened also it's
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true that the Middle East in general and
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this topic in particular is hugely
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complicated we will be accused of not
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being experts but at the same time the
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audience seems to appreciate our
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opinions as consumers of information who
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are trying to make sense to the world
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yeah so that's all we can really do
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right and conversations I think are how
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we make progress any any thoughts before
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we get started here and I'll recap
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what's occurred toat any any um opening
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thoughts before we get into the details
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here on behalf of somebody
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who worked in Israel have a lot of
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friends there spent a lot of time there
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it's really just a terrible devastating
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situation
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I've really tried
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to stay off of social media just because
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it's allowed me
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to kind of think a little bit more
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logically it's fast and furious right
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now I think on
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X and it's just a lot of people trying
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to make sure that their version of the
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truth is Amplified over every other
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version of the truth which I think is
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like a is a point in the cycle where you
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you just have to almost unplug from The
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Matrix a little
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bit and
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find a few places that seem to be just
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telling things in an even-handed way
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which I also find on X and then just
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kind of reconstruct what happened why it
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happened what do we do from here I don't
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know I don't I I have a lot of thoughts
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on a lot of the peripheral issues but
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the core issue is just I'm just stunned
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that this happened I don't I don't even
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know how this is possible that this
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happen like jamath I'm not trying to get
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too weighed in too deeply into the tweet
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but I did notice you by the way have
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stopped tweeting you've done a couple of
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retweets but youve paused this week a
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lot of your
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tweeting yeah I mean I think that
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important time to listen and learn and
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process what's going on right this is
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not a great time to be having hot takes
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I have posted a few things first of all
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Jason you've made the analogy to to 911
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being in in New York right now I think
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that that is the comparison that's been
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made is that this is Israel's 911 yeah I
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think that's a justifiable comp
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comparison in in two
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respects one is this was a terrorist
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attack it was an atrocity this was a a
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massacre of of civilians even if you're
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somebody who believes in the Palestinian
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cause you should be able to recognize
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that these were war crimes yeah the
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videos are coming out the stories are
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coming out in particular the rounding up
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and Slaughter of
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260 attendees at a music festival was
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really Beyond The Pale they're clearing
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some of these uh farming villages and so
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forth and finding the bodies you know
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families basically killed anyway we
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don't need to repeat all all the details
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here but um but this was I
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think an attack on civilians that is
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reminiscent of of 911 and and um has
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affected the Israeli people in a similar
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way I think the other analogy to 911
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that's worth discussing is the reaction
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to this or what what Israel's going to
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do and what the reaction is by us
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political figures you heard people like
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Nikki Haley basically saying to to nah
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who finished them it wasn't exactly
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clear whether she was just talking about
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Hamas or the whole Gaza Strip or maybe
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Iran and then if there was any ambiguity
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about that you just had Lindsey Graham
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come out and say level the place meaning
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referring to all of Gaza yeah it's crazy
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I'm very concerned that one of the
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purposes here of of the terrorists was
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provoke an overreaction like the US uh
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engaged in after 911 remember we were
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viciously attacked we were wounded we
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then lashed out and plunged into two
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decades of wars in the Middle East what
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was the result of that we lost thousands
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of lives of our own soldiers we spent
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trillions of our treasure millions of
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people on the other side died yeah and
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we at the end of the day we only changed
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the geopolitical map of the Middle East
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in ways that were ultimately unfavorable
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for us
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Iran became a more powerful country the
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region became
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destabilized and we squandered uh the
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sympathy that the United States had and
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its moral position that we had after 911
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in the eyes of much of the world so the
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US I think fell for the Trap that I
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think Bin Laden laid which was to
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provoke us into an overreaction I think
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that is one of the goals of terrorists
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is to create such an outrage such a
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provocation that they will bait the
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other side into an overreaction I'm
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quite concerned that could happen here I
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think that our us leaders should be as
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friends of Israel should be counseling a
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cool-headed
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response I think braying for war with
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Iran or suggesting that the entire Gaza
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Strip should be level would be doing
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exactly the wrong thing it would ignite
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the Arab
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Street the Middle East perhaps that was
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the goal here and we're trying to figure
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out what is the goal of this attack that
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was planned for years and perhaps that
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was the goal is to try to take all the
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hard for it peace and progress that has
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been made in that uh process over the
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over the last couple years Abraham
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Accords and and you know stability and
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then just you know really create a
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fullscale escalation I think that's
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right I mean look I think Israel is
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within its rights to dismantle and
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Destroy Hamas Hamas is an organization
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that in its Charter has said they're
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committed to the destruction of Israel
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they've now committed this atrocity
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again it was if they had just limited
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their attack on uniformed Israeli
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officers and Military I think that would
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be one thing but they went much further
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than that the vast majority of the
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casualties here are civilians who were
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murdered in atrocious ways so I think
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they're a terrorist organization and
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Israel is well within its rights to
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destroy them however the question is how
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you do that yeah like a lot of terrorist
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organizations Hamas can kind of Melt
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Away into the population of Gaza they've
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apparently have these elaborate tunnel
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networks they've got bunkers so it's not
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clear that you can destroy them from the
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sky through uh bombing those kinds of
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bombs would lead to a lot of Civilian
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casualties which will inflame the
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situation and turn a world opinion
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against Israel at the same time if they
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go in with ground forces that seems like
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a really tough situation as well because
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Hamas is waiting for them and they they
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will have to fight a Guerilla war in a
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very tight
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packed dense urban area where Hamas
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likely has anti-tank weapons weapons
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that we've seen that have been so
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effective against armored vehicles in
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Ukraine again if the uh fighting gets
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too hot they can disappear into these
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tunnel networks there's going to be IEDs
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everywhere it's going to be a very very
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tough fight for the Israelis so I think
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they're in an incredibly tough spot I'm
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not quite sure what the right reaction
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is for them but I do think that
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if the reaction is this uh let's call it
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the Lindsey Graham level the place
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reaction I think that could set off a
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much wider Regional war or even a World
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War and that is not something that's
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ultimately going to help Israel and I
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hope that our leaders are wise enough to
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be counseling against that I get the
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sense that they're not going to uh go
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that hard and if you look at the
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American response to 911 you know going
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into Afghanistan and dismantling al-
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Qaeda a noble Mission and we didn't have
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any terrorist attacks on America or very
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we thred most terrorist attacks there
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were attempts actually and our
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intelligence was very strong over the
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last couple of decades and we haven't
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had another one of those but you're
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right going into Iraq and then you know
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what what was the last decade about
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being in Afghanistan we went into Iraq
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we went into Syria we went into Libya we
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stayed in Afghanistan for 20 years it
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should have been a quick surgical strike
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to take out al- Qaeda and their Taliban
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hosts and then we should have gotten out
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and even that is incredibly difficult as
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a as you're pointing out here you know
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Hamas can just fade away into the Gaza
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Strip and into into Palestine and you
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know who knows um shamat I guess where
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we're at right now is trying to make
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sense of why this happened and what the
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next couple of weeks might look like
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right and so your
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thoughts I think Israel has every right
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to defend itself and they
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should eradicate Hamas this is not like
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we woke up and found out that they were
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a terrorist organization yesterday or on
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Sunday we've known this for years
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they've been labeled as such people have
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been monitoring their money flows for
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years we know where they were
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funded but the thing to keep in mind is
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that those 30,000 Hamas
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terrorists have also been keeping 2.2
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Palestinians hostage for the last 20
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years and of the 2.2 million
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Palestinians in Gaza half are
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kids and so David's right the thing
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thing to keep in mind
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is as barbaric as what happened to the
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Israelis
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were
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Israel in its
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actions could cause tremendous civilian
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casualties which will just further
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inflame the ability to find a long-term
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peace in the Middle East that's really
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tragic and that's probably part of
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hamas's kind of sadistic calculus which
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is they they probably expected this kind
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of a reaction and they probably don't
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Care at the end of the
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day so it's important to separate
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Palestinians from Hamas but I understand
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and I know where Israel is coming from
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because we fa the same reaction after
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911 the question that I have is Israel
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is the most
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sophisticated military and intelligence
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organization in the world and the reason
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is because when everybody talks about
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priorities Israel only really has one
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priority which is to safeguard the
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Israeli people yeah survive and they've
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been essentially in a conflict Zone with
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this Sword of Damocles since the
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founding of
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Israel
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so there are three organizations
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that really have to figure out what
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happened here right there's mad which is
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the foreign intelligence service of
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Israel there shinb which is the domestic
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security apparatus and then there's Aman
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which is the military intelligence group
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and it's like how did this happen
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because this should have been priority 1
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two three and four right and it has
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always been for them other countries the
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safeguarding of their people is not
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necessarily always number one right and
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then things happen and then you rep
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prioritize in many ways that's what
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happened in 911 I guess at some level in
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America I mean we had all the signal
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before that and when we did the 911
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Commission and we found out they were
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going to flight school here you know and
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and it was pretty
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clear that it was an intelligence
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failure for America yeah those are the
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two big thoughts that I have which is
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there's just going to be so many
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civilian casualties what will that do to
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actually I think that that has a huge
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negative impact on the long-term chances
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of Peace because then radicals will use
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that information to further or to
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attempt to radicalize the next
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generation of Palestinians or other
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Arabs or whatever and so I worry that
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the progress that was made in the
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Abraham Accords all the
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[Music]
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normalization goes off the rails and
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that's tragic because most of these
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people the overwhelming majority of all
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people everywhere they just want peace
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they just want to live a decent life
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take care of their family raise their
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kids so that's really tragic but then
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the other the other part of my mind is
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like how could this have fallen through
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the cracks and and why were the most
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sophisticated int Ence organizations
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caught flat footed here yeah there's
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going to be a a lot of uh information
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that will come out over time and lessons
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and by the way the reason why that
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second piece is important is not to
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point the finger at anybody but it's to
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deescalate because of what sack said
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earlier which is that when people who
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can articulately gird for war are given
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the bully pulpit and you see American
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politicians now braying and ging for
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War I don't think they fully recognize
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the consequences of that they're not
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doing a full accounting of what America
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has lived through in the last quarter
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century and now to induce other
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countries to try to do the
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same I think is so dangerous and so yeah
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if we can understand where these cracks
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are at least we can deescalate those
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specific individuals attempts to
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escalate and if we don't do that we're
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going to find ourselves in a
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really
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complicated war and I don't think
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anybody wants that nobody wins nobody
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wins yeah I mean at at this point really
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the returning of the hostages seems to
00:15:06
be the most important you know high
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order mission that has to occur after
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that clearly
00:15:14
dismantling Hamas and this Terra
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apparatus but you know having started to
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spend some time you know in the region
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and talking to people over there and
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again I'm no expert but I have been
00:15:25
talking to people who've been working on
00:15:27
this you know got people who've been
00:15:28
working on trying to create peace in the
00:15:30
region for their entire lives and this
00:15:32
is definitely a setback but I'm an
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optimist and I actually think that in
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some ways this is going to create a
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climate where people are going to really
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fight to try to uh resolve this
00:15:44
situation or at least contain the
00:15:46
situation two- State solusion the
00:15:48
Abraham Accords I think they're this is
00:15:50
going to renew
00:15:52
people's commitment to peace in the
00:15:54
region and I I know many many of the
00:15:57
countries over there are really a Gass
00:15:59
at what happened and they've been
00:16:01
working really hard to try to normalize
00:16:02
relations there and create peace and
00:16:04
prosperity and commerce and you know uh
00:16:08
between uh the different countries in
00:16:09
the region so this is just heartbreaking
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uh for the loss of human life and how
00:16:15
that occurred and then it's also
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heartbreaking for the peace process and
00:16:18
all this progress that's been made
00:16:20
recently and so I think it's you know
00:16:23
the there's no Silver Lining here but I
00:16:25
I do think this will uh maybe the good
00:16:29
people of the world will recommit to
00:16:30
trying
00:16:31
to resolve this issue and create peace
00:16:35
in the region that's my hope I know it's
00:16:37
simplistic and uh again no expert but
00:16:40
that's my hope and I've been spending
00:16:42
time over there and learning a lot more
00:16:43
about the region these These are
00:16:45
multigenerational issues that are going
00:16:47
to take generations to figure out um and
00:16:49
it's it's two steps forward one step
00:16:51
back obviously uh but man for the
00:16:54
politicians and the the people
00:16:56
negotiating this piece and they work re
00:16:58
tiously on this for their whole lives
00:17:02
you know keep at it I mean that's all we
00:17:05
can do right I mean Jason I think
00:17:06
disrupting the process that was
00:17:08
happening towards normalization of
00:17:10
relations between Israel and Arab states
00:17:13
specifically the gulf monarchies I think
00:17:15
was one of the objectives here yeah so I
00:17:17
mean Israel's contention for a long time
00:17:19
is they want to negotiate peace they
00:17:21
they want to negotiate but they don't
00:17:23
have a partner to negotiate with whether
00:17:26
you believe that or not that was that
00:17:27
was their position and with the Abraham
00:17:30
Accords we saw that they started to be
00:17:33
able to negotiate again normalization
00:17:36
with three Gulf Arab states without
00:17:41
involving the Palestinians and it looked
00:17:44
like that issue was being put to one
00:17:46
side and that they were kind of going
00:17:48
around it and the idea being look if if
00:17:50
you won't negotiate with us then we'll
00:17:52
figure out a way to move forward without
00:17:54
you the big news that you know been
00:17:56
going on in the last few months is that
00:17:57
supposedly
00:17:58
Israel and Saudi Arabia were close
00:18:02
to working out some sort of
00:18:04
normalization and I think that process
00:18:06
has been put on hold until I think this
00:18:09
has been dealt with and so I think one
00:18:12
of the takeaways here is the idea that
00:18:14
you're going to be able to get to Middle
00:18:15
East peace without resolving this
00:18:19
Palestinian question I think this is
00:18:20
basically a a return to to the reality
00:18:23
that that issue is simply going to have
00:18:24
to be dealt with I don't think we're
00:18:26
going to get to a larger deal in the
00:18:30
Middle East we're not going toble to
00:18:31
resolve all these problems until this
00:18:33
long festering problem of of the
00:18:35
treatment of the Palestinians is is
00:18:37
dealt with I think you're right that the
00:18:40
two-state solution is the only
00:18:44
possible solution that makes sense I
00:18:47
mean what's the alternative a one-state
00:18:50
solution means that either it's run by
00:18:55
the Israelis but presiding over
00:18:59
hostile Palestinian minority that may
00:19:01
eventually one day be the majority and
00:19:03
you're forced into some sort of aparti
00:19:05
State or the Palestinians are running
00:19:08
that one party State and it means that
00:19:10
the Jews have been pushed into the sea
00:19:11
so neither one of those Solutions looks
00:19:14
very good so that leaves you with a
00:19:17
two-state solution however hard however
00:19:19
impossible it seems to negotiate that
00:19:22
it's the only option yeah it's the only
00:19:24
option and it's a real opportunity I
00:19:27
think the my hope is that instead of
00:19:31
pushing Saudi away this actually pulls
00:19:33
Saudi closer and says okay this is a
00:19:35
chance to really
00:19:37
normalize the global perception of the
00:19:39
Middle East because if there can be a
00:19:42
way for Israel and Saudi to build a
00:19:44
bridge here I have a lot of hope that
00:19:45
there can be a lot of stability and a
00:19:47
lot of the good work I mean again like
00:19:52
man as
00:19:54
a Democrat who has been left homeless
00:19:57
who is now now definitely in the center
00:20:00
but probably leaning increasingly right
00:20:03
I left yet again with an
00:20:05
appreciation despite the messenger of
00:20:08
the message of the Trump administration
00:20:09
because what those guys
00:20:11
did was pretty incredible in hindsight
00:20:15
these Abraham Accords the Accords with
00:20:17
Israel and the GCC the almost Accord
00:20:20
between Israel and
00:20:22
Saudi to really be able to like find a
00:20:26
longlasting peace
00:20:29
is just a real example for the world and
00:20:33
those guys did a lot of really good work
00:20:35
and it's it's a miracle actually when
00:20:37
you when you look at it what they did
00:20:38
you know despite the fact listen I'm no
00:20:41
fan of trump and I am too homeless this
00:20:43
is where party but if you want to
00:20:45
objectively look at what they did it was
00:20:47
good work it was great you have to and
00:20:50
in fact this is a moment where you have
00:20:51
to start to rewrite like is your not you
00:20:56
Jason but I'm just saying collectively
00:20:57
is one Trump derangement syndrome
00:21:00
causing more damage than anything that
00:21:02
Trump could have actually done and I
00:21:04
think the answer is yes because like
00:21:06
it's now causing us to not
00:21:09
see that good work and then Embrace and
00:21:12
extended so much of the work that
00:21:14
happened in that
00:21:16
Administration turns out to have been
00:21:18
right and that's what's so frustrating
00:21:21
for me the work on the border wall we
00:21:24
didn't like the messenger so we killed
00:21:26
the message turned out it was right
00:21:28
issuing long-term debt to refinance when
00:21:31
rates were at zero we didn't like the
00:21:32
messenger so we killed the
00:21:35
message a structural piece in the Middle
00:21:37
East we didn't like the messenger so we
00:21:39
killed the message when are we going to
00:21:41
stop shooting ourselves in the foot and
00:21:44
when are we going to actually see and
00:21:45
take the time to look past who is saying
00:21:48
things and actually listen to them word
00:21:51
for word I'll give you an example I
00:21:54
started to tweet Three Links a day over
00:21:57
the past 3 days and the only reason I
00:22:00
did that was I thought things were so
00:22:02
hyper contentious and Hyper partisan
00:22:04
that I just wanted to show a few sides
00:22:07
right and one day I found a couple links
00:22:10
two of which one was from Jonathan
00:22:12
greenblat of the ADL who I thought had a
00:22:15
very powerful message and one was from
00:22:18
Mike
00:22:19
Flynn and his message was also actually
00:22:22
pretty powerful if you just read it and
00:22:24
if you took the names off all the
00:22:27
content was so valuable both points of
00:22:29
view but the minute it goes into the
00:22:31
world people immediately judge and they
00:22:33
kill the message because of the
00:22:35
messenger and this is exactly a moment
00:22:38
where you have an opportunity to just
00:22:39
stop doing that because the stakes are
00:22:41
so high it's infuriating actually quite
00:22:44
honestly it's infuriating to see it we
00:22:46
had this last week on the show when we
00:22:47
were talking about reducing spending the
00:22:49
Matt Gates is not the perfect messenger
00:22:51
but his message was the message we've
00:22:52
been talking about which is hey we have
00:22:54
to control spending so you I can
00:22:57
understand people not liking Mett Gates
00:22:59
there's a lot of things to not like
00:23:00
about I I understand people not liking
00:23:02
Trump and get over it well and then you
00:23:04
know it's it's bizarre that his
00:23:07
son-in-law went to do all this work but
00:23:10
yet he did it and it had success that's
00:23:12
another example it's weird your
00:23:15
son-in-law to do it but I listen to the
00:23:18
podcast you know what it's not weird
00:23:19
because at the end if you listen to this
00:23:21
podcast the most important thing that is
00:23:24
resoundingly obvious about Jared Kushner
00:23:27
is that he is incredibly thoughtful and
00:23:30
Incredibly
00:23:32
competent and right why did we have to
00:23:36
spend years being fed all of these
00:23:39
stupid lies because one can judge for
00:23:42
oneself but Jared Kushner is thoughtful
00:23:46
he's smart and I thought to myself I was
00:23:49
fed all these lies for years about how
00:23:50
this guy was like moping around in the
00:23:53
shadows and this and that and was all
00:23:54
not
00:23:55
true well no when I say it's it's
00:23:58
non-traditional if you sent you know any
00:24:02
presidents son-in-law daughter-in-law
00:24:04
whatever child to go to the Middle East
00:24:07
on its surface this seems insane but in
00:24:11
fact he they did good work and so it's
00:24:14
not traditional it's not what you would
00:24:16
expect he's thoughtful and competent
00:24:18
that's what I thought after I that's
00:24:19
what I got out of it as well is that
00:24:20
he's thoughtful and competent yeah yeah
00:24:22
he brought some fresh ideas just so the
00:24:23
audience is clear what we're talking
00:24:24
about is he just did an interview with
00:24:25
Lex Freedman and the first hour was on
00:24:29
what's happening with Israel and Hamas
00:24:31
must must watch I think I thought it was
00:24:33
excellent too excellent excellent it was
00:24:35
excellent he did just in terms of having
00:24:37
fresh eyes he did things like focus
00:24:40
groups he's like what does what does the
00:24:43
Arab Street think about various topics
00:24:45
and he actually did focus groups in
00:24:46
various countries to find out so I mean
00:24:49
I think kusher made a number of really
00:24:50
interesting points showing how difficult
00:24:52
it's going to be to get to a two-state
00:24:53
solution But first you have to set up
00:24:55
what does the the Palestinian side say
00:24:57
and what they say is look Gaza is
00:25:00
effectively an open air prison you've
00:25:01
got over two million people packed into
00:25:04
this very tight area there's something
00:25:05
like 50% unemployment it's impoverished
00:25:09
the conditions are deplorable and they
00:25:12
don't have their own State they don't
00:25:13
have rights and it's been like this for
00:25:14
a long time so that's sort of the the
00:25:17
basic Pro Palestinian argument kushner's
00:25:21
response to that was well yeah but you
00:25:23
know Israel left in 2006 it left Hamas
00:25:25
in control gave them the keys effect ly
00:25:28
the reason why there's such high
00:25:30
unemployment is because Hamas is corrupt
00:25:33
and doesn't enforce property rights and
00:25:35
they scare away all the investment
00:25:37
nobody wants to invest there yeah and
00:25:39
Israel did give work permits so people
00:25:41
could leave Gaza to go to work and look
00:25:43
what happened I mean when they try to
00:25:45
open up the walls you have a massacre so
00:25:49
these are the points that he made look I
00:25:51
think both sides of this have legitimate
00:25:53
arguments and points to make I think
00:25:56
that the conditions of the Palestinians
00:25:58
in Gaza is deplorable and you have to
00:26:01
feel for the civilians who live there of
00:26:04
course but then you know the the
00:26:07
Israelis have a right to live without
00:26:09
fear the fear that their security is in
00:26:12
Jeopardy and that this territory can be
00:26:13
the launching pad for terrorist attacks
00:26:15
on their soil yeah so it's going to be
00:26:18
an extremely difficult thing I think to
00:26:20
to reconcile this but you know K Kushner
00:26:22
made a couple other interesting points
00:26:23
he said listen the Gaza part of this is
00:26:24
not that hard because the boundaries the
00:26:27
ter
00:26:28
lines are not in dispute there's no
00:26:30
religious areas that are in dispute for
00:26:32
example you don't have the status of the
00:26:34
Temple Mount or you know East Jerusalem
00:26:36
and there's an economic plan to
00:26:38
revitalize Gaza Strip so you really just
00:26:40
need a negotiating partner for the
00:26:43
Israelis to to figure that out and of
00:26:45
course now the problem is who do you
00:26:47
negotiate with I mean hamus is is a
00:26:49
terrorist organization that is dedicated
00:26:52
to the destruction of Israel so it's
00:26:55
really a tragic situation you you look
00:26:57
at at it and you're like this should be
00:26:59
easy to work out but it's not it's a
00:27:02
relatively small area it's a relatively
00:27:05
small number of people it's it's it's
00:27:06
two million people we we should be able
00:27:08
to figure out the rest of the Free World
00:27:10
how to at least have a path towards this
00:27:12
and the first step is getting rid of
00:27:13
Hamas right like there's no choice but
00:27:15
they have to
00:27:16
go Jason I mean look if if there was a
00:27:21
if there was a button that Israel could
00:27:22
push to eliminate every member of Hamas
00:27:25
yeah sure they'd be within the rights to
00:27:27
to push that the problem is that Hamas
00:27:30
is now
00:27:32
deeply yeah embedded in a civilian
00:27:36
population over over two million that's
00:27:38
densely packed how do you root them out
00:27:40
it's going to take decades it's going to
00:27:41
take decades and they're basically
00:27:43
supported by that population as far as
00:27:45
we can tell yeah and you know again if
00:27:48
you if you take measures that are
00:27:50
perceived as too drastic by the rest of
00:27:52
the world then you will inflame the
00:27:55
opinion of other countries you'll turn
00:27:56
it against
00:27:58
Israel so again it's a really tough
00:28:01
situation but I think that the US should
00:28:05
not only affirm its support for Israel
00:28:07
it should only denounce the atrocity
00:28:09
that happened on 107 but I think it
00:28:13
needs to reiterate the Biden
00:28:14
Administration does its support for a
00:28:15
two-state solution I think that the US
00:28:18
has to be on record that what's in
00:28:20
everybody's long-term interest including
00:28:22
Israel is ultimately a two-state
00:28:24
solution and the Palestinians are
00:28:26
eventually going to have to have their
00:28:27
own State there's simply no way around
00:28:29
that right yeah and the the Free World I
00:28:33
think is in the process of getting
00:28:38
engaged in making this happen because
00:28:39
it's in everybody's interest this can't
00:28:41
keep going on um and so hopefully this
00:28:43
again I don't want to say Silver Lining
00:28:45
but I I hope that this the good that
00:28:47
comes out of this is that the world
00:28:48
focuses on resolving this conflict or
00:28:51
were you surprised at all Jason by the
00:28:53
amount of people that seem to be almost
00:28:58
justifying that was shocking to me I
00:29:00
mean I I the the fact that people could
00:29:02
make any kind of equivalence between
00:29:04
terrorist activity and the the level of
00:29:06
brutality I I can't even describe it
00:29:08
because it'll trigger my PTSD which I I
00:29:11
had after 911 and it's still affects me
00:29:14
I'm sitting here not far
00:29:15
from ground zero and you know for people
00:29:20
you know educated people on College's
00:29:23
campuses or just otherwise to blame the
00:29:28
Israelis for the murder of children for
00:29:31
people being and then justifying rape
00:29:34
and torture kidnapping I mean there is
00:29:36
no justification and there is no
00:29:38
equivalency there's no equivalency here
00:29:40
and and this is one of the big problems
00:29:41
and you know these Dopey kids on
00:29:44
Harvard's campus or whatever they have
00:29:46
never experienced evil suffering we can
00:29:50
we literally just dismiss these idiots
00:29:53
because these are kids who have never fa
00:29:57
I don't think you can I think one of the
00:29:59
things that was shocking to me was the
00:30:01
level
00:30:02
of basically either subtle or latent
00:30:06
anti-Semitism unconscious yeah subtle
00:30:08
whatever that it unlocked
00:30:12
and I was also shocked it just Sak has
00:30:15
used this word before but it's true but
00:30:17
our leading educational institutions
00:30:19
have really become woke madrasas they
00:30:22
are inculcating kids with just some
00:30:25
virent poison I think the reaction is
00:30:27
always to go after to support the
00:30:29
underdog I think in this group of people
00:30:32
that that is a that is an idiotic
00:30:34
simplification that the smartest schools
00:30:36
in the world educating the smartest kids
00:30:38
in the world should be
00:30:40
capable that's how they think though it
00:30:42
can't be that not my feeling on I think
00:30:44
that there's it's half anti-Semitism and
00:30:47
it's half they just think who's the
00:30:48
underdog I'm taking that side yeah I
00:30:51
think it's that simple is in the woke
00:30:53
mindset yeah well look I think it was
00:30:56
disgusting and disturb iring to see
00:30:59
these organizations and these Elite
00:31:01
institutions being unable to denounce
00:31:04
hamas's terrorist attack and the
00:31:06
atrocity that took place or turning out
00:31:08
in the streets to celebrate what
00:31:10
happened and we saw a lot of that too
00:31:13
look even if you support the Palestinian
00:31:15
cause even if you believe that they've
00:31:18
been mistreated even if you think that
00:31:20
their land has been occupi they deserve
00:31:22
their own State even if you believe that
00:31:27
war against the state of Israel is
00:31:29
Justified on that basis these were still
00:31:31
war crimes these were Beyond The Pale of
00:31:35
War again Hamas did not just attack some
00:31:39
military installations on the border and
00:31:41
kill soldiers or capture Soldiers the
00:31:43
vast majority of the people who were
00:31:46
killed were civilians and there was no
00:31:48
conceivable military purpose in for
00:31:51
example paragliding into a music
00:31:53
festival a festival for Peace by the way
00:31:56
and then rounding and slaughtering the
00:31:58
concert goers there was no conceivable
00:32:00
military justification for going into
00:32:02
these kotzas or farming
00:32:04
communities you know
00:32:07
families it's deranged it's deranged
00:32:09
it's deranged so it's deranged it's
00:32:11
terrorism and the fact that they can't
00:32:13
frame it as terrorism is insane but
00:32:15
think about what happened okay I just
00:32:16
want to frame the order of events okay
00:32:18
107 happens and I think within 36 hours
00:32:23
or less let's take Harvard as an example
00:32:26
okay the the P of the W
00:32:28
madrasas they had all these student
00:32:30
organizations immediately come out
00:32:32
trying to justify this thing without any
00:32:35
information right because in the first
00:32:37
36 hours obviously not nearly as much
00:32:39
information was available as to exactly
00:32:41
what happened than it's been available
00:32:43
now as an example I should read the
00:32:45
statement just so people have Clarity
00:32:47
here joint joint statement by Harvard
00:32:49
Palestine Palestine solidarity groups on
00:32:52
the situation in
00:32:53
Palestine we the undersigned student
00:32:55
organizations hold Israeli the Israeli
00:32:59
regime entirely responsible for all
00:33:01
unfolding violence today's events did
00:33:03
not occur in a vacuum for the last two
00:33:05
decades millions of Palestinians in Gaza
00:33:07
have been forced to live in an open air
00:33:09
prison Israeli officials promised to
00:33:12
quote open the gates of hell and the
00:33:14
massacres in Gaza have already commenced
00:33:16
Palestine Palestinians in Gaza have no
00:33:18
shelters or for refuge and nowhere to
00:33:22
escape in the coming days palestin
00:33:24
Palestinians will be forced to Bear the
00:33:25
full brunt of Israel's violence this is
00:33:28
derang sociopathic my point is you talk
00:33:30
you have like 15 or 20 of these student
00:33:33
organizations of all ilks okay so it's
00:33:35
not just Pro Palestinian groups it was
00:33:38
like the Harvard siks Association okay
00:33:41
like siks in South Asia are the most
00:33:43
peaceloving people in the world they're
00:33:45
not pro-war of any kind whatsoever or
00:33:47
Pro terrorism so all these people write
00:33:50
this thing which blames Israel okay then
00:33:54
the school is totally silent the school
00:33:57
doesn't say anything they neither they
00:33:59
neither completely disavow that
00:34:02
statement nor do they come out with a
00:34:04
more reasonable statement all these ex
00:34:07
faculty and ex individuals Larry Summers
00:34:09
sort of leading say this is outrageous
00:34:12
have an opinion they come out with
00:34:14
something that's milk toast in middle of
00:34:15
the road then they get sadly rejected by
00:34:18
everybody yet again then the
00:34:20
administration comes out and gives a
00:34:21
cleaned upb version that tries to allay
00:34:24
everybody's anger CU that the first
00:34:25
statement I think basically essentially
00:34:27
pissed off everybody on both sides then
00:34:30
a bunch of alums who've already
00:34:32
graduated or who've given money say
00:34:34
these student organizations are
00:34:36
outrageous we will not hire
00:34:39
anybody who's part of this because their
00:34:42
views are so immoral that we would never
00:34:45
want these people part of our
00:34:47
organization and so here it
00:34:49
isman just so we people have this bill
00:34:51
Amman said I have been asked by a number
00:34:54
of CEOs if Harvard would release a list
00:34:56
of the members of each of the Harvard
00:34:57
organizations that have issued the
00:34:58
letter assigning Soul responsibly for
00:35:00
hamas's heinous acts to Israel so as to
00:35:03
ensure that none of us inadvertently
00:35:05
hire any of their members in other words
00:35:07
you must own your words which is an
00:35:09
important lesson for so then what
00:35:11
happens is individual students actually
00:35:15
have to come out who are part of these
00:35:17
associations that were signatories to
00:35:19
the first release had to disavow the
00:35:21
statement and said actually I'm just an
00:35:24
Indian student at Harvard Law School
00:35:26
there's Nick maybe you can find this
00:35:28
tweet of this like Indian woman from
00:35:29
Colorado of Indian Heritage and she's
00:35:32
like you just get Auto recruited into
00:35:34
these
00:35:35
organizations when you join Harvard so
00:35:38
I'm like well wait a minute this is a
00:35:40
place that's supposed to be for like
00:35:42
modern Free Speech Progressive thinking
00:35:44
and instead what happens is based on
00:35:45
your skin color you get autod drafted
00:35:47
into some Association then you autosign
00:35:50
any press release written by some person
00:35:52
that you don't even see or approve what
00:35:54
is going on at these places and these
00:35:57
are the places that parents and kids are
00:35:59
tripping over themselves trying to get
00:36:01
into kids will kill themselves if they
00:36:03
don't get into and these are the worst
00:36:06
institutions in America because back to
00:36:08
Jason what we talked about earlier which
00:36:10
is we need people who can think from
00:36:12
first principles those kids are not it
00:36:14
and those institutions are not making
00:36:16
them and so if we want to have a point
00:36:18
in time where when things like this
00:36:20
happen we can really figure out what
00:36:23
happened in the past that was right and
00:36:24
what can we do in the future it's not
00:36:26
this and it's not this kind of thinking
00:36:29
and if you're going to a school Harvard
00:36:32
Cornell upen Stanford that are spitting
00:36:35
out these
00:36:36
kids I think it's a real shame your spot
00:36:39
on I mean how Sachs could there any be
00:36:42
any question about the difference
00:36:44
between
00:36:46
military terrorists you know with
00:36:49
machine guns gunning down people dancing
00:36:52
peacefully at a music festival at
00:36:55
Sunrise and then make some equivalency
00:36:57
there it and you cannot actually
00:37:00
ascertain for yourself that is a
00:37:02
terrorist act if you can't from very
00:37:05
basically opening your eyes and seeing
00:37:07
what occurred and you know thank God in
00:37:09
some ways for for X not being censored
00:37:12
because you can actually see these
00:37:13
things and I know it's very difficult
00:37:14
for people to watch I don't have any
00:37:16
judgment on people who don't want to
00:37:17
watch it but I think when the world sees
00:37:20
these videos and you going to write this
00:37:23
letter you should very quickly be able
00:37:24
to discern milit
00:37:27
AR
00:37:29
terrorist fighters from hippie kids
00:37:33
dancing at a music festival it's it's
00:37:35
plain as day there's there's nothing
00:37:38
there's nothing to confuse you here this
00:37:40
is the most easy test you you have to be
00:37:43
brainwashed to see something other than
00:37:45
that these schools are woke madrassas
00:37:47
yeah so a couple of points on that so if
00:37:49
you look at their statement I think it's
00:37:52
it's uh appropriate and fine to express
00:37:54
concern about the people the civilians
00:37:57
living in Gaza and what the Israeli
00:37:59
response might
00:38:01
entail I think it is fine and and good
00:38:05
to do that both for humanitarian reasons
00:38:07
and for self-interested reasons if
00:38:09
you're a supporter of Israel because
00:38:10
this could all spiral out of control
00:38:13
however these people completely lit
00:38:15
their credibility on fire from the first
00:38:18
paragraph by saying that Israel was
00:38:21
entirely responsible for what happened
00:38:23
and not having one word of condemnation
00:38:26
for the atrocities that had just been
00:38:28
committed they cannot even see the war
00:38:31
crimes that have
00:38:32
occurred yeah they don't even mention
00:38:35
Hamas they don't even mention the actual
00:38:36
people that perpetrated the crime right
00:38:39
so the question is why you know what is
00:38:41
it about their idiology that blinds them
00:38:44
to this atrocious Massacre and and I
00:38:48
think it is this I do think it has to do
00:38:50
with this this woke mindset the the woke
00:38:53
ideology is a form of cultural Marxism
00:38:56
in which which people are divided up
00:38:59
into oppressor and oppressed groups so
00:39:01
in Marx's original teaching you had the
00:39:03
proletarian and the bisi basically the
00:39:06
oppress and the
00:39:07
oppressor this kind of went through this
00:39:10
cultural identity filter with woke where
00:39:13
again people are divided up into
00:39:14
identity groups and so you've got men
00:39:16
versus women white versus black and
00:39:19
brown you've got straight versus gay and
00:39:22
so on down the line and the the idea is
00:39:26
that
00:39:27
there's a power structure and if you are
00:39:29
in one of these groups and you are by
00:39:31
definition oppressed and if you are in
00:39:34
one of the uh oppressor groups then by
00:39:36
definition you are guilty in a
00:39:40
collective way you you're suffering from
00:39:42
by default the people who are oppressed
00:39:45
are the Righteous ones yeah right but I
00:39:47
think that what you see is that when you
00:39:51
divide up the world this way first of
00:39:52
all is this not a very accurate way of
00:39:54
looking at the world I mean there are
00:39:56
lots of minority groups in the United
00:39:58
States that have done great so for
00:39:59
example there's a book written recently
00:40:02
about asian-americans in the United
00:40:04
States called the inconvenient minority
00:40:06
why is it inconvenient because
00:40:08
asian-americans have done spectacularly
00:40:10
well they get into Elite colleges and
00:40:12
institutions at higher rates than than
00:40:15
whites do which is why they're the
00:40:16
primary group that's discriminated
00:40:18
against by affirmative action before it
00:40:20
was overturned by the Supreme Court but
00:40:22
the reason why the author called them
00:40:24
the inconvenient minority is because the
00:40:26
their success in America refutes a lot
00:40:29
of this sort of simplistic woke
00:40:31
delineation between if you're a minority
00:40:33
group you're oppressed and if you're you
00:40:35
know in this white group you're the
00:40:37
oppressor I think Jews have fallen into
00:40:41
a similar type of categorization which
00:40:43
is they're An Inconvenient minority
00:40:45
they've been historically very
00:40:46
successful in America despite their
00:40:49
being existence of of anti-Semitism and
00:40:52
I think that the woke ideology has
00:40:55
reacted to this by saying no you know
00:40:57
Jews are not really an ethnic group
00:40:59
they're just whites and so that's been
00:41:01
the response right is well let's just
00:41:03
put them in the oppressor group so we
00:41:04
don't need to explain away their success
00:41:07
one of the problems with that is that
00:41:09
you have to ignore the existence of
00:41:11
anti-Semitism and so they do they just
00:41:13
pretend like it doesn't exist so here
00:41:15
you have a situation where all of these
00:41:17
things are in play they've already
00:41:19
predefined the Palestinians as being an
00:41:22
oppressed people and and look and I
00:41:24
think in many ways they are but they are
00:41:26
not incorrect yeah not incorrect but
00:41:28
they've defined it in in racial terms
00:41:30
really right right and they've defined
00:41:32
the Israelis and and Jews really more
00:41:35
generally as being part of an impressor
00:41:37
group and so everything fits into that
00:41:39
larger narrative and so when members of
00:41:43
one of these woke oppressed groups
00:41:45
commits an injustice they just can't see
00:41:48
it I mean their version of social
00:41:50
justice is always defined in terms of
00:41:53
collective guilt and if you're a member
00:41:56
of an oppressed Group by definition
00:41:57
you're not capable of committing an
00:41:58
injustice because you don't have the
00:42:00
power do you guys think that bill Amman
00:42:03
was out of line by saying I don't want
00:42:05
to hire kids from these organizations
00:42:09
and these schools because it's just like
00:42:11
these kids and these schools will bring
00:42:13
basically I think what he's implicitly
00:42:15
saying is distraction and it will lower
00:42:18
the probability that I achieve my
00:42:19
corporate goals so these are not good
00:42:21
workers based on your comment about
00:42:24
thinking from first principles and and
00:42:26
you know being able to assess the
00:42:27
situation I think that's probably what
00:42:29
happens at a hedge fund you have to
00:42:30
place bets and you have to be able to
00:42:32
think from first principles and be
00:42:34
intellectually rigorous this is the most
00:42:36
intellectually lazy approach I'm just
00:42:39
going to sign a piece of paper without
00:42:40
even thinking so no I don't think it's
00:42:42
out of line I think it's an important
00:42:43
lesson for people this is not freedom of
00:42:44
speech this is owning your words you
00:42:47
must own your words in position and it's
00:42:50
important that young people learn this
00:42:52
now you have to own your words whether
00:42:54
it's on social media or signing some
00:42:56
stupid petition that you didn't read and
00:42:59
and there's a lot of backtracking going
00:43:00
on right now by the way I can't believe
00:43:02
that if I got into Harvard I would get
00:43:03
autod drafted into the brown men's
00:43:06
association just because of the color of
00:43:07
my
00:43:08
skin I've ever heard fat GRE group I
00:43:11
mean let's point out the double standard
00:43:13
here that these Elite Harvard students
00:43:15
want to be exempt from their their words
00:43:18
their statements they don't want to be
00:43:20
canceled for that however you know that
00:43:23
when some haa schmuck basically posts
00:43:25
some tweet or posted a tweet 10 years
00:43:28
ago that gets resurfaced they're the
00:43:30
first ones clamoring for their
00:43:33
cancellation right yeah they would like
00:43:35
for their firing they would like amnesty
00:43:37
for their idiotic opinions yeah well
00:43:39
it's good good for the goose here is
00:43:40
good for the gander if they're they're
00:43:42
going to create a cancel culture where
00:43:45
people get cancelled for their decade
00:43:47
old tweets and so forth then they should
00:43:49
be prepared to live by that standard now
00:43:51
look personally I would have some degree
00:43:53
of forgiveness for a college student
00:43:57
being part of an organization that puts
00:43:59
out a statement they're claiming they
00:44:01
didn't know okay but then why didn't you
00:44:02
resign look I don't think there's a good
00:44:04
excuse for this other than youthful
00:44:06
stupidity so I would I wouldn't cancel
00:44:08
them forever but look I do think that
00:44:11
it's fine for inappropriate for someone
00:44:13
like Bill and say I don't want to hire
00:44:14
you people yeah and I would just be
00:44:16
careful for you to add the word youthful
00:44:18
because I think it's just get out of
00:44:20
jail free card it's definitely stupidity
00:44:23
the question is is the cake baked and if
00:44:25
the cake is baked then there's a big
00:44:27
argument to never hiring these people I
00:44:29
mean look your frontal loes are still
00:44:32
developing until you're 25 years old so
00:44:33
I I would give college kids a bit of a
00:44:36
pass if they do stupid stuff you're
00:44:37
there to learn you're there to make
00:44:38
mistakes no that's not what I'm saying
00:44:40
this is a huge mistake you're saying the
00:44:41
bakes fully baked you mean like their
00:44:43
their opinions and who they are are I'm
00:44:45
saying is you learn a lot from actions
00:44:47
drink too much Don't drink don't
00:44:49
exercise enough you get a little
00:44:50
sluggish maybe a little overweight I get
00:44:52
all of
00:44:53
that I'm not convinced that
00:44:56
when you have this
00:44:58
fundamentally specific way of thinking
00:45:01
that you can unwind that so easily Jason
00:45:03
so I'm not convinced yeah okay sure that
00:45:06
this mind virus gets fixed because you
00:45:09
all of a sudden need a job I actually
00:45:11
think like maybe it's the struggle of
00:45:13
realizing that there are deep
00:45:14
consequences to this vein of thinking
00:45:17
that this oppressed versus oppressor or
00:45:19
the other way that it was framed in our
00:45:20
group chat is that wokeism and the
00:45:23
embracement of socialism is basically
00:45:26
running away from Excellence it's this
00:45:28
idea that everybody has to be the same
00:45:30
what communism says we all are the same
00:45:33
nobody is special we're all going to
00:45:35
work together do the same things we're
00:45:37
all going to dress in the same ways it's
00:45:39
the collective we there aren't going to
00:45:42
be exceptional outliers but the problem
00:45:44
is that's not how the world works and so
00:45:47
the other part of why these woke
00:45:48
madrasas are so terrible is that it
00:45:50
teaches I think to work away from
00:45:54
excellence and instead of striving for
00:45:56
excellence to strive to be part of a
00:45:58
collective and I think that that is
00:46:00
fundamentally corrosive to America it's
00:46:02
corrosive to what God is here it's
00:46:03
corrosive to all the great countries in
00:46:05
the
00:46:06
world and so then again it's like why
00:46:08
would you hire kids who fundamentally
00:46:10
don't want to be excellent who are
00:46:12
afraid that if they were excellent they
00:46:15
would be guilty of something that's
00:46:17
ultimately the
00:46:18
question why why would any of these kids
00:46:21
go to such an elag school to basically
00:46:23
be taught that it's wrong to excel
00:46:26
all right well let say I think perhaps a
00:46:29
good set and then as a result not think
00:46:31
for yourself and then as a result sign
00:46:33
something like this which is just stupid
00:46:35
we'll continue to discuss this topic I
00:46:37
guess in the weeks ahead again hopefully
00:46:40
this conversation was productive for the
00:46:42
community the all-in
00:46:44
community I understand that you know
00:46:47
people might have very strong feelings
00:46:49
about you know us discussing it but
00:46:51
we're here to discuss difficult topics
00:46:53
there's one other aspect to this I think
00:46:54
we should talk about which is the the
00:46:56
United States's larger geopolitical
00:46:58
situation right now I mean things seem
00:47:00
very tenuous I did an event with um Paul
00:47:03
Merl lucky actually friend of the of the
00:47:06
Pod friend of the Pod tell them I said
00:47:08
my invite got lost yeah we we actually
00:47:11
had a nice uh debate SL discussion on on
00:47:14
Ukraine but the thing that I think we
00:47:15
agree with is that the US better bring
00:47:19
more Innovation at the milit military
00:47:21
industrial complex and and figure out
00:47:25
like procurement because our whole Cost
00:47:27
Plus system right now is so broken
00:47:29
there's an article recently in the New
00:47:30
York Times where it said that the cost
00:47:32
to the United States of producing an
00:47:34
artillery shell is $6,000 for Russia
00:47:36
it's
00:47:37
$600 so in other words it costs the US
00:47:40
10 times what it cost Russia to produce
00:47:42
an artillery shell even though Russia is
00:47:44
considered to be this super corrupt
00:47:46
kleptocracy where everyone steals
00:47:48
everything and yet our procurement
00:47:50
system is 10 times more than their we
00:47:53
don't have competition and all the
00:47:55
politician are captured correct we have
00:47:57
this Cost Plus accounting system where
00:47:58
every year the price good opportunity to
00:48:00
explain that yeah so in every other part
00:48:03
of technology price goes down over time
00:48:07
right you can produce more of something
00:48:10
for Less we've seen this with Tesla
00:48:12
we've seen it with PCS we've seen it
00:48:14
with television sets whatever it is the
00:48:17
price goes down over time servers yeah
00:48:19
or if the price goes up it's because
00:48:21
you've developed some fundamentally new
00:48:23
capability some new version you know the
00:48:25
powerful chips more storage exactly
00:48:28
faster speed but you know we're still
00:48:30
making the same artillery shells the
00:48:32
same Stinger missiles the same javelins
00:48:35
and so forth I don't think the
00:48:36
capabilities have changed that much but
00:48:38
the price goes up every year because
00:48:40
it's Cost Plus and so explain Cost Plus
00:48:43
people might be hearing that for the
00:48:44
first time well you know most companies
00:48:46
sell something and then they have a
00:48:47
profit margin but right the way that
00:48:49
government procurement works is the
00:48:50
profit margin is controlled they're only
00:48:53
allowed to Market up a certain certain
00:48:55
amount above their cost but the thing
00:48:57
that's happened in the defense industry
00:48:59
is there's been huge consolidation over
00:49:01
the past couple of decades where now
00:49:02
you've got a handful a defense companies
00:49:06
and it's an
00:49:07
oligopoly and many of these key
00:49:10
armaments are single source so there's
00:49:12
only one producer and they just keep
00:49:13
raising the price every year now one of
00:49:16
the kind of crazy things about this is
00:49:18
and Palmer made this point is it's not
00:49:20
like anyone's getting rich because of
00:49:22
cost plus it's not like the money is
00:49:25
basically making these companies there's
00:49:27
no incentive to lower the price if you
00:49:29
lower the price and you're at 10% and
00:49:32
you got your $6,000 down to 4,000 10% of
00:49:34
4,000 is a lot less than 10% of 6,000
00:49:37
what's happening is not incentive Google
00:49:39
like margins what's happening is that
00:49:42
these companies keep building their
00:49:43
bureaucracies bigger and bigger so they
00:49:45
hire lots of Staff they make a lot of
00:49:48
campaign contributions they fund think
00:49:50
tanks and so their cost structure just
00:49:53
keeps getting more and more bloated
00:49:54
right their incen to do that the more
00:49:56
they charge the more they make right now
00:49:58
why am I bringing this up well we're in
00:50:00
a situation now where Israel might be on
00:50:03
the precipice of well they've declared
00:50:06
war against Gaza and this thing could
00:50:08
spiral out of control and become a
00:50:10
regional War they may be asking for
00:50:12
weapons yeah they may be asking for
00:50:14
weapons we've already donated some
00:50:15
however earlier this year we used to
00:50:18
have an ammunition stockpile in Israel
00:50:21
the United States did it it belonged to
00:50:23
us but it was there potentially in case
00:50:25
of problem in the region and that
00:50:28
artillery stockpile was basically taken
00:50:31
and given to Ukraine and remember we ran
00:50:34
out of the key type of ammunition in the
00:50:37
Ukraine war which is 155 millimeter
00:50:39
artillery shells that's why we gave them
00:50:42
cluster bombs so the US is already
00:50:45
dangerously low on ammunition and that's
00:50:48
before we get potentially another war or
00:50:53
another front in this larger
00:50:57
another country's War to be clear we're
00:50:59
not at War but we've been asked to
00:51:02
donate weapons to Ukraine and we've been
00:51:04
asked to donate I think Israel have
00:51:05
asked for weapons I don't know if they
00:51:07
formally asked but uh we are obviously
00:51:09
going to think there's a uh Bill making
00:51:11
its way through right now that's going
00:51:12
to give some Aid to military assistance
00:51:15
to Israel by the way we have Israel also
00:51:17
a builder of of weapons too I mean their
00:51:20
their drone technology is
00:51:22
incredibly refined and they sell weapons
00:51:25
to Russia and yeah Israel is nowhere
00:51:27
near the Ukraine situation Ukraine is
00:51:30
100% dependent on the United States for
00:51:32
its military and for its economy Israel
00:51:35
has a vibrant military and economy
00:51:37
without the United States but the United
00:51:40
States does make long-term security
00:51:42
guarantees to Israel not to fight its
00:51:45
Wars there's no neutral defense treaty
00:51:47
however we do agree to provide them with
00:51:49
weapons in the event of a war so we do
00:51:53
have obligations like long-standing
00:51:55
obligations to them this is an ally
00:51:57
we've had for 75 years however our
00:52:00
stockpiles are dangerously depleted now
00:52:02
because of the Ukraine war and on top of
00:52:05
that our procurement system is
00:52:06
hopelessly broken so in a world of
00:52:10
rising multipolarity where there are
00:52:13
other great Powers now in the system
00:52:16
where there are going to be more and
00:52:17
more Global threats I don't think we
00:52:19
have a a chance of maintaining our
00:52:22
Global position and supporting our
00:52:24
allies unless we fix this I mean making
00:52:27
artillery shells at 10 times more than
00:52:29
what it cost Russia that's ridiculous in
00:52:31
Silicon Valley we have now the funding
00:52:34
of military startups and there's a whole
00:52:36
new class of warfare SuperSonics drones
00:52:40
qu is the only Advantage we have it's
00:52:43
the only Advantage we right I mean this
00:52:44
is one of the great things I mean I
00:52:46
understand Palmer is not a huge fan of
00:52:48
mine but I'm a huge fan of the work he's
00:52:51
doing and other entrepreneurs are doing
00:52:53
to make new weapons to keep us
00:52:54
competitive because you can be sure
00:52:56
China's making them and so I think it's
00:52:58
absolutely fantastic I thought it was
00:52:59
always very weird that Google speaking
00:53:02
of work madrasas like Google was Google
00:53:04
employees were refusing to provide
00:53:07
services like even basic Cloud hosting
00:53:10
services to the
00:53:11
military that that to to to benefit from
00:53:15
democracy and Living in America while
00:53:17
then not supporting the military just
00:53:19
seemed like the ultimate luxury belief
00:53:22
to use um Rob's term from the
00:53:25
PA in s your thoughts what does it take
00:53:28
guys to for this fever to break for for
00:53:32
all of these people to realize that that
00:53:35
level of corruption is not sustainable
00:53:38
that the these ways of thinking are not
00:53:40
sustainable that it's not a path to
00:53:42
peace and prosperity that we actually
00:53:43
want excellence in society we want
00:53:45
people to be outliers we want the whole
00:53:48
of humanity to move forward and that's
00:53:50
not going to happen when we move
00:53:52
necessarily as one blob but a few people
00:53:54
need to sort of clear the brush and lead
00:53:57
the way and the rest of us will come in
00:53:58
and fill it in behind them I think V is
00:54:00
the manifestation of it I'll be totally
00:54:02
honest like I think the reason he is
00:54:03
going up in the poles and the reason
00:54:06
people are drawn to him is because he's
00:54:08
smart and he's
00:54:09
exceptional and he represents one of the
00:54:13
great things about America is that
00:54:14
there's people who want to win and
00:54:16
they're smart and Excellence he
00:54:17
represents Excellence right he
00:54:18
represents Excell I I think that's why
00:54:20
people are drawn to him and I think
00:54:22
people are tired
00:54:24
of complex they're tired of corruption
00:54:27
they're tired of
00:54:28
geriatric you know 80-year-old
00:54:30
politicians we need young successful
00:54:32
people to take leadership position and
00:54:34
by the way I I really agree with what
00:54:35
you're saying I think that there's like
00:54:37
Excellence can show itself in different
00:54:38
forms I think why Obama was so profound
00:54:42
and Joe Rogan said this was he was such
00:54:45
a Statesman he was the best of us but he
00:54:48
demonstrated excellence in being
00:54:51
composed and measured and thoughtful and
00:54:53
strategic he was just so excellent um
00:54:58
Clinton as well Clinton as well Clinton
00:55:01
was incredibly steeped in policy he was
00:55:04
excellent he was
00:55:06
intellectually a massive outlier Obama
00:55:09
is an intellectual outlier vivec is an
00:55:11
intellectual outlier let's get these
00:55:14
people to change and run our system of
00:55:17
government please I think we're soaking
00:55:20
in it yeah we need smarter more capable
00:55:22
people I mean you look at Biden when he
00:55:23
gave that speech
00:55:25
uh in support of Israel I mean a lot of
00:55:27
the words were right but he was like
00:55:28
slurring his way through it it certainly
00:55:30
did not inspire me confidence it was it
00:55:32
was his best speech and it was
00:55:34
concerning the fact that he's clearly
00:55:37
incognitive decline you can see it in
00:55:39
his ability to orate and you know it was
00:55:42
his best speech and it was also
00:55:44
troubling for me as somebody who voted
00:55:45
for him to watch him slur his words or
00:55:47
just not it was clear he wasn't all
00:55:49
there and you're like gez what are we
00:55:50
showing to the world if this is the guy
00:55:51
who's running the country and if we
00:55:53
reelect him now we're saying hey we we
00:55:55
want to have an 84 yearold running the
00:55:57
country who's not all there and is in
00:55:59
cognitive CL let the guy retire let let
00:56:01
him spend time with his grandkids I
00:56:02
think it's more people who are willing
00:56:04
to vote
00:56:05
for not for what they want but to
00:56:08
prevent something else and I think that
00:56:09
that's of course that's what's so tragic
00:56:12
about how we're thinking as a country
00:56:14
right now yeah and just just to dish it
00:56:16
out equally I mean I saw Trump give a a
00:56:18
recent speech where look he's nowhere
00:56:20
near the cognitive decline of Biden I
00:56:23
think he's still Compass men
00:56:25
but he's not as sharp as he used to be
00:56:27
either I mean listen I think America's
00:56:29
basic situation and this has really been
00:56:32
reaffirmed over the past week is that
00:56:33
we're no longer in unipolarity anymore
00:56:35
we're no longer the sole superpower yeah
00:56:37
not for some time China is now a
00:56:40
superpower they're probably the lowcost
00:56:42
manufacturer of the world so when we
00:56:44
talk about being able to make things
00:56:45
like armaments and artillery shells and
00:56:47
weapons they have the ability to
00:56:48
outproduce us that is very scary there
00:56:51
are other great powers in the system now
00:56:53
Russia has proven over for the last 5
00:56:55
months through his victory in this
00:56:56
counter offensive that it is a power to
00:56:58
be reckoned with we cannot disregard
00:57:00
their concerns anymore and not only does
00:57:03
America need I think topf flight leaders
00:57:07
like intellectually who are at the top
00:57:09
of their game but we also need new
00:57:12
thinking we need to be able to sidestep
00:57:13
challenges and conflicts as opposed to
00:57:15
walking into every single trap the way
00:57:18
that lindsy Graham wants us to again
00:57:20
I'll go back on the Ukraine
00:57:22
war I think it's really clear that we
00:57:25
could have avoided that war if we had
00:57:26
taken NATO expansion off the table it
00:57:28
and whether you believe that or not it
00:57:30
was criminal not to try if it was a
00:57:32
five% chance it was worth trying so I
00:57:34
you and now look at our situation we're
00:57:37
already Meed in the Ukraine proxy war
00:57:39
now Israel's on the
00:57:41
brink we need smarter people and smarter
00:57:44
thinking in Washington we are no longer
00:57:46
the only superpower we're going to have
00:57:47
a really tough time in a multi-polar
00:57:49
world if we do not look for ways to
00:57:52
deescalate conflict when we can or
00:57:56
putting aside conflict why are we not
00:57:58
building deep ties with as many
00:58:00
countries as possible deep cultural ties
00:58:03
deep economic ties deep diplomatic ties
00:58:06
every time we are in dialogue with a
00:58:08
country and we're building a
00:58:10
relationship with that country that
00:58:11
means free people of the world are
00:58:13
winning you know and every time we
00:58:16
isolate a country that does not go well
00:58:18
for us sanctioning half the world that's
00:58:20
another big part of this problem yeah
00:58:22
and so you know it's the normalization
00:58:24
of relationships and the deepening of
00:58:27
relationships that is the high order bit
00:58:28
and you need somebody in office who can
00:58:30
do that and you know if you look at how
00:58:32
the you know the Hawks in the GOP or the
00:58:35
Hawks in the Democratic party think they
00:58:38
think that we have to be at war with
00:58:39
everybody they think we have to isolate
00:58:41
everybody you know the fact that Trump
00:58:42
went and that famous moment where he
00:58:45
walked over the in the DMZ in North
00:58:47
Korea and was talking
00:58:49
to Kim Jong Un that moment you see on
00:58:53
Kim jong-un's face we we can put it in
00:58:55
here he is so happy to be recognized now
00:58:57
listen I understand suffering he has a
00:59:00
shocked look on his face like I can't
00:59:02
believe this is happening right the same
00:59:04
way he did when Dennis Rodman came over
00:59:05
no it's like it's like a fan meeting
00:59:07
Taylor Swift if you look at those videos
00:59:09
and you compare it to this it's the same
00:59:11
well and and culture is our export and I
00:59:13
know this sounds you're talking about
00:59:14
Jason is soft
00:59:15
simplistic it can't all be it can't all
00:59:17
be hard power because other countries
00:59:19
have it too now so we have to work on
00:59:21
our soft power but you're not going to
00:59:23
enhance American soft power with all
00:59:24
this belligerent rhetoric really this
00:59:27
omnidirectional belligerence that's
00:59:29
coming out of Washington and this is why
00:59:31
I think the smart thing for blinkin to
00:59:33
do or the Biden Administration is yes
00:59:36
you reaffirm that you stand with Israel
00:59:38
in the face of this unspeakable atrocity
00:59:41
at the same time and you don't have to
00:59:43
do this right now because it is a little
00:59:45
bit tough to do it right now but
00:59:47
hostages you have to re reaffirm your
00:59:50
support for the two-state solution that
00:59:52
I think the United States has always
00:59:53
supported and by the way I think I think
00:59:54
Tony's done a really good job but again
00:59:56
at the end of the day Tony works for
00:59:59
President Biden and it's like Biden
01:00:01
hasn't been nearly as definitive as he
01:00:03
could have been and Tony's had to clean
01:00:05
it up so one example of this is like in
01:00:07
the Wall Street Journal they immediately
01:00:10
on Sunday that went to blaming Iran
01:00:14
right and then both the Israeli military
01:00:17
intelligence and American intelligence
01:00:20
they had to do an entire press circuit
01:00:21
to try to disarm this in a way that was
01:00:23
not seen in a long time and you have to
01:00:25
ask
01:00:26
yourself why why is that even happening
01:00:29
and it's like well whatever special
01:00:31
interests wanted to get that on the
01:00:32
front page of the Wall Street Journal
01:00:34
was able to do it but it has dangerous
01:00:36
implications and then what you need is a
01:00:39
really strong leader that can step up
01:00:40
and say this is false this is not
01:00:42
happening this is what we need you
01:00:43
needed an Obama in that situation and I
01:00:46
think that this is Clinton yeah or
01:00:49
Clinton
01:00:51
Reagan and and I think that this is an
01:00:53
opportunity for us to ask ourselves okay
01:00:56
who is the most dynamic excellent
01:00:59
candidate that can give us this and be
01:01:02
open-minded and not make this line about
01:01:05
Republican versus Democrat right now
01:01:07
because the world is getting super
01:01:09
complicated we need someone hyper hyper
01:01:12
excellent and intellectually
01:01:15
competent well I will say this for for
01:01:17
Trump is that um he's the only president
01:01:21
in recent memory who didn't give us any
01:01:22
new Wars best quality yeah I think he
01:01:25
has despite despite all of his issues I
01:01:27
think he has a unique ability to project
01:01:30
strength to the American public while
01:01:33
not being one of these super Hawks he's
01:01:34
actually I'd say relatively dovish well
01:01:37
he he actually walked through his secret
01:01:39
plan he's he said I can't remember where
01:01:41
this clip but he said whenever he met
01:01:42
with these folks he basically left a 10%
01:01:45
chance that he would nuke
01:01:47
them that's what he said and it turned
01:01:49
out that that 10% was just enough where
01:01:52
the where
01:01:53
everybody everybody to stay in line it
01:01:55
was just see I see I I think the US
01:01:57
already has enough deterrence I think
01:01:59
we've maxed out on deterrence I think
01:02:01
the thing that was smart about Trump was
01:02:03
that he was willing to do business yes
01:02:06
he was willing to negotiate and he
01:02:07
didn't feel the need to make these moral
01:02:11
condemnations all the time he was
01:02:12
willing to meet with Kim jongo and he
01:02:15
was willing to meet with Putin and and
01:02:18
Sean ping and he avoided uh criticizing
01:02:22
them personally he didn't call them
01:02:23
dictators he talked about how smart they
01:02:25
are yeah it's the art of the deal right
01:02:28
I mean at the end of the day he's
01:02:29
looking to do business and we need a
01:02:31
little bit more of that and I think this
01:02:32
is why jerck kusher was successful is he
01:02:35
went in there with the mindset of a
01:02:36
businessman yeah how do we find
01:02:38
something that's beneficial to both
01:02:40
sides totally right I think that when
01:02:42
Trump was elected I was told that it was
01:02:44
the end of the world and that's what I
01:02:45
thought and I'd already underwritten him
01:02:47
as an F okay and then four years into
01:02:51
the presidency he was probably like a
01:02:56
C in my mind and then as I get a little
01:02:59
bit of distance away I realized no hold
01:03:00
on a second this guy was like a BB Plus
01:03:03
like he was pretty good and
01:03:05
unfortunately the few things that if he
01:03:08
if he could have just pushed through
01:03:11
would have really saved America the
01:03:12
biggest one being these hundred-year
01:03:14
bonds it it would have kept America from
01:03:17
getting to the precipice of fiscal ruin
01:03:19
and we'd be in a highly different
01:03:20
situation and I'm not sure we could have
01:03:23
ever given him credit for it but the
01:03:25
further and further I get away from him
01:03:26
and the less emotional I am he did a
01:03:29
pretty good job he was a pretty good
01:03:30
president don't forget that he tried to
01:03:32
overturn the election and steal the
01:03:34
election I voted for Hillary Clinton I
01:03:36
voted for Joe Biden but this is the
01:03:38
honest assessment the guy did for the
01:03:41
things that he was supposed to do a good
01:03:42
job and for where every other president
01:03:45
found a way to frankly make our
01:03:49
situation a little bit worse
01:03:50
specifically around Wars he did not do
01:03:52
that and that is a huge accomplishment
01:03:54
that I think needs to be acknowledged
01:03:56
and he would have ripped up the
01:03:57
Constitution and taken the presidency
01:04:00
and stolen it so just give that in mind
01:04:02
as well L we get him that that's why
01:04:06
he's not that's why he's not an a he's a
01:04:08
b B+ okay Jason you have to admit if it
01:04:11
weren't for the Black Swan of Co he
01:04:13
would have been reelected in a Landslide
01:04:15
Landslide it's quite possible he would
01:04:17
have been reelected yeah I mean I and
01:04:20
also yeah by the way I mean at this rate
01:04:22
the way things are going in this country
01:04:23
right now both economically and
01:04:26
internationally he's going to Wal the
01:04:28
white house he's going to spend all of
01:04:29
his time in the next year in in the cour
01:04:32
houses battling all these lawsuits the
01:04:34
law fair against him he's not going to
01:04:37
be able to campaign and it won't even
01:04:38
matter because people are going to be so
01:04:40
done with this and nobody wants him as
01:04:42
president again so I think that's nobody
01:04:45
wants that everybody wants new choices
01:04:47
all right everybody if you do not want
01:04:49
to hear us talk about complex issues in
01:04:51
the world you can unsubscribe from the
01:04:53
Pod we're going to be here every week
01:04:54
having hard discussions listening to
01:04:56
each other and learning together uh you
01:04:58
don't have to agree with any one of us
01:05:00
uh but we are um we're happy to have the
01:05:04
difficult conversations and learn every
01:05:06
week
01:05:08
here and your our thoughts and prayers
01:05:12
go out
01:05:13
to the families and the friends of those
01:05:16
impacted by this heinous terrorist
01:05:18
attack and I I don't know if anybody has
01:05:20
any other closing remarks here but
01:05:23
obviously we're heartbroken and we we
01:05:26
hope that peace prevails and that the
01:05:28
hostages are released as quickly as
01:05:30
possible well
01:05:32
said all right everybody this is episode
01:05:35
149 of the all-in podcast uh next week
01:05:38
we'll we'll talk about all the different
01:05:39
topics but for this
01:05:41
week we're going to let it sit where it
01:05:44
is right
01:05:45
now see you next time bye-bye
