00:00:00
I take the same test year by year and I
00:00:02
am 60% happier than I was 5 years ago
00:00:04
because I finally cracked the code okay
00:00:06
so Arthur BR the world-renowned social
00:00:09
scientist har Professor best-selling
00:00:11
author who teaches people how to live a
00:00:13
better happier life I've studied the
00:00:16
science of happiness and I found that
00:00:18
most of what Society tells us is wrong
00:00:20
and we will go into all of this for
00:00:21
example they found that happiness is
00:00:23
about 50% genetic introverts tend to
00:00:25
have more long-term Happiness and
00:00:27
happiness is a mind virus it will
00:00:30
transmit from one person to another
00:00:31
person to another person really yeah
00:00:33
they were looking at the trajectory of
00:00:35
people's lives measuring everything for
00:00:36
many years and they found obesity is
00:00:38
contagious when your friends get
00:00:40
divorced you're more likely to get
00:00:41
divorced but also when your friends get
00:00:42
happy you're more likely to get happy
00:00:44
the problem is with happiness has been
00:00:46
in Decline since about 1990 one of the
00:00:48
reasons is that we need struggle and
00:00:50
suffering for us to actually get the joy
00:00:51
that we seek but we know that for
00:00:53
example 95% of D fail is the most
00:00:56
unsuccessful industry in the world
00:00:57
because the arrival fallacy that when I
00:00:59
actually get rid of the belly fat then
00:01:01
I'm actually going to have a more
00:01:02
wonderful life that's actually not true
00:01:05
you actually get more satisfaction from
00:01:07
the progress okay so if not a weight
00:01:10
number or a financial number what's a
00:01:12
better more realistic goal to set that
00:01:14
has more chance of success to being
00:01:15
happier there are goals that actually do
00:01:17
lead to the happiest life and the more
00:01:18
you have the better off you are the four
00:01:20
goals that really matter
00:01:26
are quick one this is really really
00:01:28
fascinating to me on the back end of our
00:01:30
YouTube channel it says that
00:01:33
69.9% of you that watch this channel
00:01:35
frequently over the lifetime of this
00:01:36
channel haven't yet hit the Subscribe
00:01:38
button I just wanted to ask you a favor
00:01:40
it helps this channel so much if you
00:01:42
choose to just subscribe helps us scale
00:01:44
the guest helps us scale the production
00:01:46
and it makes this show bigger so if I
00:01:47
could ask you for one favor if you've
00:01:49
watched the show before and you've
00:01:50
enjoyed it and you like this episode
00:01:52
that you're currently watching could you
00:01:53
please hit the Subscribe button thank
00:01:55
you so much and I will repay that
00:01:57
gesture by making sure that everything
00:01:59
we do here here gets better and better
00:02:00
and better and better that is a promise
00:02:02
I'm willing to make you do we have a
00:02:05
[Music]
00:02:10
deal Arthur Steve what do you do I
00:02:15
am dedicated to lifting people up and
00:02:18
bringing them together using the science
00:02:21
and ideas around human happiness where
00:02:24
did you teach I teach at Harvard
00:02:26
University are you a professor of
00:02:28
Happiness yeah I'm a professor of
00:02:30
leadership technically at the Harvard
00:02:32
Kennedy School and the Harvard Business
00:02:33
School but my area is leadership and
00:02:36
happiness so I've studied the the
00:02:38
science of Happiness which is a huge
00:02:41
growing field multi-dimensional field
00:02:42
across Social Psychology and
00:02:44
Neuroscience behavioral economics
00:02:46
Philosophy for a long time and what I
00:02:49
try to do is I bring it to Future
00:02:51
Leaders in politics and policy and
00:02:54
especially business and help them
00:02:56
understand themselves as happiness
00:02:58
teachers so they can be happier and they
00:02:59
can be more successful and bring more
00:03:02
happiness to the people they lead what
00:03:04
is the state of Happiness can you qu can
00:03:06
we quantify that where we are in terms
00:03:08
of are we getting happier as a people or
00:03:10
more unhappy as a people we can we can't
00:03:12
so the United Nations and a lot of other
00:03:14
places try to see the happiest country
00:03:16
you've seen those data a lot the
00:03:18
happiest countri it's always Denmark
00:03:19
it's always the Nordic countries um you
00:03:22
can't do that and that's like the way
00:03:25
that that happens is they go to 100
00:03:27
countries and they they survey a
00:03:28
thousand people in each of countries and
00:03:30
say how do you evaluate your life that's
00:03:33
like asking people in every country how
00:03:35
much you like the music in your country
00:03:38
and on the basis of the highest rankings
00:03:40
internally you say who has the best
00:03:41
music that doesn't really make sense
00:03:43
it's you know it's bad methodology you
00:03:45
can look at the average well-being
00:03:47
across a population where people are
00:03:49
having more or less the same experience
00:03:51
so I on inside countries inside
00:03:53
communities over time I'm I'm willing to
00:03:56
look at that and that shows that in most
00:03:58
of the oecd countries including the
00:04:00
United States and UK our countries um
00:04:03
happiness has been in Decline since
00:04:04
about
00:04:06
1990 since about 1990 yeah is that when
00:04:10
you were born yeah
00:04:12
92 it's not you it's
00:04:16
us what is um I always think when people
00:04:19
commit their lives largely to a topic
00:04:22
that that must have very personal roots
00:04:23
with that individual sure what are your
00:04:25
personal roots with the subject of
00:04:27
Happiness it's hard for me it's hard for
00:04:29
me I'm not a naturally happy person I'm
00:04:32
way below average in happiness and at
00:04:34
least 50% of that is genetic by the way
00:04:37
so there's a lot of research looking at
00:04:39
identical twins there's a whole database
00:04:41
of identical twins born between the mid
00:04:43
1930s and 1960s that were adopted into
00:04:47
separate families at Birth then reunited
00:04:50
as adults this was not an experiment
00:04:51
that was cooked up by some you know
00:04:53
diabolical Harvard you know social
00:04:55
scientists like me it was it happened
00:04:58
naturally just over the of events and
00:05:01
when they were reunited they were given
00:05:03
personality tests you can see some of
00:05:05
these meetings where they were reunited
00:05:07
on on YouTube and they're they're
00:05:09
wonderful they're joyful and funny you
00:05:11
find that you have an identical twin you
00:05:12
didn't know about and say finding all
00:05:14
these commonalities but of course
00:05:16
there's always a bunch of social
00:05:18
scientists you know with with clipboards
00:05:20
you know Annoying them like me you know
00:05:22
taking data and so the personality tests
00:05:25
all show that between 40 and 80% of your
00:05:28
personality genetic
00:05:30
and the rest is
00:05:31
environmental and experiential and
00:05:33
circumstantial but 80% up to 80% that's
00:05:37
a lot and that means your openness to
00:05:39
experience your conscientiousness as a
00:05:41
person your extroversion agreeableness
00:05:43
neuroticism and and happiness is about
00:05:45
50% genetic your mother literally made
00:05:48
you unhappy
00:05:49
Steve I'm or happy your results May Vary
00:05:52
was your household a happy
00:05:56
place it was a complicated place but it
00:05:58
wasn't terrible because my parents were
00:06:01
good parents and they loved each other
00:06:03
and they loved us but my relationship by
00:06:06
the time I was a young adult was
00:06:09
cordial because they were busy with
00:06:12
their issues and you know this is one of
00:06:14
the things that I talk about with a lot
00:06:15
of people nobody has a perfect childhood
00:06:17
and a lot of people are troubled by
00:06:19
their childhood and they feel doomed to
00:06:21
repeat the circumstances of their
00:06:22
childhoods but they're not you can
00:06:24
rewrite your own past history by looking
00:06:26
back at what happened and deciding to
00:06:28
change certain variables in the way that
00:06:30
you're going to live your adult life so
00:06:31
Steve you're going to get married and
00:06:33
you're going to have children and then
00:06:35
you need to look at your own childhood
00:06:37
and say what are the things that I want
00:06:39
to be the same and what are the things
00:06:41
that I want to be different I'm
00:06:42
designing my life right now on not just
00:06:45
on the basis of the things that went
00:06:47
right but on the basis of the things
00:06:49
that went wrong you know I wasn't close
00:06:50
to my parents they never lived close to
00:06:52
me my children who are now growing up
00:06:55
never had a an intense experience of a
00:06:57
relationship with any of their
00:06:58
grandparents they're one side lived in
00:07:00
Barcelona the other side lived in
00:07:01
Seattle we were you know in New York and
00:07:04
Washington DC and and and and so now no
00:07:07
you know I'm I'm going to live near my
00:07:08
kids and I'm a grandfather now um all
00:07:11
three of my adult kids are hearing from
00:07:14
me every day on FaceTime whether they
00:07:16
want to or not I see my grandson as much
00:07:19
as I can next week I turn down a whole
00:07:21
bunch of work because I I get to babysit
00:07:23
my my grandson is there any research
00:07:27
that proves people who have hope in
00:07:29
their lives have greater chances of
00:07:30
survival whether it's with when they're
00:07:32
suffering with you know illnesses or I
00:07:35
often think about this sort of
00:07:36
stereotype that when someone retires
00:07:38
yeah or when they stop working or when
00:07:41
their partner dies in old age so they
00:07:43
might be both of them might be 90 years
00:07:45
old when one of the partners dies it
00:07:46
seems that the the remaining the
00:07:48
surviving partner has months left
00:07:51
sometimes that's mostly true the when is
00:07:53
not true here's this is depressing how
00:07:57
you know that statistic which is that if
00:07:59
the husband dies the wife is going to be
00:08:01
fine really yeah widows are way happier
00:08:05
than widowers I told that to my wife and
00:08:06
she's like
00:08:08
huh um widowers do really poorly
00:08:12
generally men do very poorly part of the
00:08:15
reason is
00:08:16
because these data are disputed but more
00:08:19
or less they're they're directionally
00:08:20
correct 60% of 60-year old men say their
00:08:22
best friend is their wife 30% of their
00:08:24
wives say their best friend is their
00:08:26
husband women have more relationships
00:08:28
they have close or deeper love
00:08:30
relationships with non-related kin and
00:08:33
with the adult children typically than
00:08:35
than the than the husband does the
00:08:36
husband's most intense companion
00:08:39
relationship typically is with the wife
00:08:41
and that's why that's an asymmetric stat
00:08:44
and that's what the data say but yeah
00:08:45
for sure I mean back to the main point
00:08:47
hope is super critical on illness on
00:08:50
everything I mean hope actually affects
00:08:52
all sorts of physiological processes and
00:08:55
we know that when people lose hope they
00:08:58
give up and when they give up they don't
00:09:00
take care of themselves they don't do
00:09:02
what they need to do they don't exercise
00:09:05
like they should they don't they're not
00:09:06
as active they're not talking to other
00:09:08
people their minds are not stimulated
00:09:10
they don't eat right they might use
00:09:12
substances and ways that they shouldn't
00:09:14
and all of those things compound and so
00:09:15
just at the physiological level you'd
00:09:17
see that you'd be You' have degradation
00:09:18
when there is no hope and when you're 90
00:09:20
you can't afford it actually I'm 59 I
00:09:23
can't afford it either and neither can
00:09:25
you at 31 we all need hope this is he
00:09:29
huge to the extent that you can actually
00:09:30
bring hope to People by showing them
00:09:34
they can do something as an agent in
00:09:36
their own future that's just giving them
00:09:40
a longer better more successful life
00:09:43
that that's that's what I want to do
00:09:44
with my work you know because I've seen
00:09:46
so much I mean since I've actually
00:09:48
dedicated myself to this I have very
00:09:50
good protocols for measuring my own
00:09:53
well-being and I don't game the numbers
00:09:56
I mean I have there there's
00:09:57
macronutrients to your happiness you
00:09:59
have to take the different elements it's
00:10:01
not a single measur thing and there are
00:10:03
micronutrients that you can aggregate up
00:10:05
to it and I follow this um very
00:10:08
carefully month by month by month
00:10:10
semester by semester year by year and I
00:10:12
take the same tests as my students do
00:10:14
every year and I am 60% happier than I
00:10:17
was five years ago because of my work
00:10:19
because of the work that you've done on
00:10:20
yourself or because of your work as a
00:10:22
both because here's the deal if you want
00:10:24
to be happier you need to understand the
00:10:25
science you need to apply it to your
00:10:26
life you need to share it with others
00:10:28
because you won't remember it and hold
00:10:30
yourself accountable unless you're
00:10:31
teaching it that's why I teach people to
00:10:34
be happiness teachers interesting yeah
00:10:37
yeah so so my guess is how long you been
00:10:40
doing the podcast two years we launched
00:10:42
on YouTube three years ago yeah it's uh
00:10:45
it's probably having a big effect on
00:10:46
your life huge because you're talking
00:10:49
about these ideas and my guess is that
00:10:51
you're in your private life you're
00:10:53
talking about the ideas that you learned
00:10:55
with other people and every time you
00:10:56
share these ideas you imprint them not
00:10:59
just sort of they're not just limic
00:11:00
fantasms they become you use them with
00:11:03
the executive centers of your brain the
00:11:05
more that you learn the more you talk
00:11:07
about what you learn the better off you
00:11:08
get you're only talking about things
00:11:10
that Empower people and lift them up and
00:11:11
make their lives better these are the
00:11:13
topics of what you do right because you
00:11:16
want people to be happier and more
00:11:17
successful that's the point of the show
00:11:19
right and that's how you're getting
00:11:21
happier and more
00:11:22
successful is there research that shows
00:11:24
this point of agency correlates to
00:11:27
happiness and survival yes like
00:11:29
longevity and so agency essentially
00:11:31
means that the belief that you have
00:11:33
control over your life and your future
00:11:35
in essence yeah and that you're there
00:11:37
are things that you can do so that
00:11:38
you're not helpless helplessness is the
00:11:40
problem this this gets back to the work
00:11:41
of Marty Seligman in the in the late 60s
00:11:44
and 19 early 1970s he's the father of
00:11:46
positive psychology he created the whole
00:11:47
field of positive psychology he's a
00:11:49
great mentor and hero to me he's done so
00:11:51
much for me and and intellectually and
00:11:53
in my career and as as a friend just as
00:11:55
a person and when he was doing his early
00:11:57
work he was doing animal stuff studies
00:11:59
and work on human beings to take away
00:12:01
their agency so he would do things like
00:12:03
people would be you know putting nickels
00:12:05
into a slot machine and they would
00:12:06
figure out along the way that it didn't
00:12:08
matter if they pulled the handle or not
00:12:09
that they were getting the same outcomes
00:12:11
that he took away just little tiny bits
00:12:12
of agency he had dogs in boxes where the
00:12:16
they would shock the floors of the boxes
00:12:18
this is hard to get through internal
00:12:19
review boards now but they would because
00:12:21
it seems cruel it wasn't big shocks but
00:12:23
the whole point was that the dogs would
00:12:25
you know step off the parts of the floor
00:12:27
that were shocking them but when they
00:12:29
couldn't do that anymore they would just
00:12:31
like lie down and whimper on the
00:12:33
shocking floor they would give up this
00:12:35
is called learned helplessness people
00:12:37
will learn their helplessness when they
00:12:39
realize that when they when or they
00:12:40
figure out or they conclude or they're
00:12:42
told by politicians and media and
00:12:45
activists and everybody else that
00:12:46
there's nothing that they can do and
00:12:47
they're a victim when you take on the
00:12:52
identity a victim you learn your
00:12:54
helplessness and that will degrade your
00:12:56
quality of life make you less successful
00:12:58
less happy and a lot of studies say that
00:13:00
you'll you won't even live as
00:13:03
long this point of agency is so
00:13:05
interesting I um I had someone on the
00:13:07
show at the very beginning of the show
00:13:08
and he said that he basically
00:13:10
crowdsources his book guy called Mo gat
00:13:13
you might know the guy says he
00:13:14
crowdsources his book and he gets 500
00:13:16
people to reread to read his book before
00:13:17
it comes out and he goes when we got
00:13:19
down to the part in my book about
00:13:21
personal responsibility he goes 8% of
00:13:23
people drop off the Google Document
00:13:25
because they don't want to read it uhuh
00:13:26
yeah no that's a spinach this this and
00:13:29
and it's interesting because I have this
00:13:30
column that comes out every Thursday
00:13:31
morning in the Atlantic 12 or 1300 words
00:13:33
on the signs of happiness and about once
00:13:35
every two or three months I have a
00:13:37
spinach column which says you want to be
00:13:40
happy be humble you want to be happy
00:13:43
change your mind you want to be happy
00:13:47
don't tell somebody if they disagree
00:13:48
with you that they're stupid and evil
00:13:50
listen listen more than you talk you
00:13:52
know just what your grandmother told you
00:13:55
right about how to be a successful
00:13:56
person but it's all about Humanity about
00:13:59
humility but these are hard things in a
00:14:02
society where all of our biases are I'm
00:14:04
right you're wrong I don't want to
00:14:06
listen la la la la la if it goes against
00:14:09
my my whatever ideological biases that I
00:14:12
happen to have and I'll write a spinach
00:14:14
column and those are the ones that get
00:14:16
way less way fewer readers do you know
00:14:18
what's interesting I was as you were
00:14:19
speaking I was thinking that nobody
00:14:20
thinks they're a victim they can spot
00:14:23
victimhood in other people very
00:14:25
successfully but there's no one
00:14:26
listening to this right now that would
00:14:28
say
00:14:29
I am a victim so how does one know if
00:14:32
they are a victim well I mean a lot of
00:14:34
people will say I am a victim of these
00:14:38
institutional biases a lot of people
00:14:39
will a lot of people really will say
00:14:41
that I mean they will say that I'm a
00:14:43
victim of capitalism or I'm a victim of
00:14:46
powerful people I'm a victim of of
00:14:49
conspiracies that are happen the the
00:14:50
Deep State whatever happens to be a lot
00:14:52
of people really will talk about it in
00:14:53
that particular way and that's sort of
00:14:56
the problem now of course all victims of
00:14:59
something but we all have tons of power
00:15:01
and the really interesting thing in life
00:15:03
is to show people the levels of power
00:15:05
that they have the levers of power that
00:15:07
they have that don't start with trying
00:15:09
to change the outside world that start
00:15:11
with the inside of their heads that's
00:15:13
what I'm dedicated to doing is showing
00:15:15
people that the hope that they should
00:15:16
have comes from the The Leverage they
00:15:18
have over their circumstances which
00:15:20
starts with what they thought they had
00:15:21
the least control over their emotions
00:15:25
their happiness their well-being the
00:15:27
love that they experience because the
00:15:29
commitments that they make if you really
00:15:32
want to have power start with managing
00:15:35
yourself not trying to manage the
00:15:36
outside world is happiness a choice
00:15:39
happiness is unattainable because it's a
00:15:42
direction not a destination is being
00:15:44
happier a choice yes being happier is a
00:15:47
choice on the basis of the commitment
00:15:48
that you are going to make in your life
00:15:50
and in your relationships in the way
00:15:52
that you manage yourself absolutely do
00:15:54
you think there is a starting point to
00:15:55
being happier yeah it actually starts
00:15:58
with a
00:15:59
starts with U recognizing that most of
00:16:01
what Society tells us about happiness is
00:16:03
wrong what's wrong it's not a feeling
00:16:06
happiness is not a feeling on my first
00:16:07
day of class I have you know two
00:16:09
sections of 90 MBA students at the
00:16:11
Harvard Business School and they they're
00:16:12
taking this happiness science of
00:16:14
Happiness seminar I've got 400 in the
00:16:15
waiting list there's an illegal Zoom
00:16:17
link they think I don't know about right
00:16:19
it's the happiness class it's super fun
00:16:22
I love it I love my students they're
00:16:23
terrific and the I cold call them on the
00:16:25
first day by saying you know what's
00:16:26
happiness I pick one two 3 10 what's
00:16:31
happiness and they will say it's the
00:16:32
feeling I get when I'm with the people
00:16:34
that I love or it's how I feel when I'm
00:16:36
doing what I enjoy feelings feelings
00:16:38
feelings feelings I say wrong the
00:16:41
biggest barrier to actually getting
00:16:42
happier is believing that happiness is a
00:16:45
feeling it's not it's happiness is
00:16:47
evidence or feelings are evidence of
00:16:49
Happiness like the smell of dinner is
00:16:51
evidence of dinner that's how to
00:16:54
understand feelings now feelings are
00:16:55
really really important your affect your
00:16:57
mood is critically important but
00:16:59
happiness is something a lot more
00:17:01
tangible you start getting happier the
00:17:04
beginning of Happiness of be of getting
00:17:07
happier because true happiness is not
00:17:09
the goal because you have to have
00:17:10
negative emotions negative emotions keep
00:17:12
you alive negative experiences make you
00:17:14
learn and grow so you don't want pure
00:17:16
happiness the Side of Heaven H dangerous
00:17:18
you'd be dead quickly without a lot of
00:17:21
unhappiness but getting happier starts
00:17:23
with this understanding that really what
00:17:25
it is is the pursuit of three things
00:17:28
enjoyment satisfaction and meaning those
00:17:32
are the three macronutrients so you and
00:17:35
I are nutrition nerds right and what we
00:17:37
all know and I've heard people say on
00:17:39
your show is that most people get
00:17:42
insufficient protein and when you come
00:17:44
to America Everybody Eats way too many
00:17:46
highly glycemic carbohydrates right
00:17:48
happiness is the same thing we get the
00:17:50
macronutrient profile wrong we need more
00:17:54
enjoyment satisfaction and meaning we
00:17:56
know we have to know how to get them in
00:17:59
in efficient and healthy ways and we
00:18:02
need them in Balance can you define
00:18:04
enjoyment satisfaction and meaning for
00:18:06
me what yeah see this is the problem
00:18:08
because a lot of people think they know
00:18:09
what these things are but they aren't
00:18:10
but this is the adventure because once
00:18:12
you kind of get into the details of this
00:18:13
then you've got real strategies for
00:18:15
getting happier the definition provides
00:18:18
strategy so let's start with enjoyment
00:18:19
okay most people think it's the same as
00:18:21
pleasure but that's wrong pleasure is a
00:18:23
limic phenomenon now of course you know
00:18:25
this because you've had you've had
00:18:27
plenty of guests who talked about the
00:18:28
lmic system of the brain that's the
00:18:30
console of tissue deep inside the brain
00:18:32
that's been evolving over the past 40
00:18:34
million years it takes signals from the
00:18:37
brain stem and other parts rudimentary
00:18:39
structures in the brain it takes those
00:18:40
signals about what's going on in the
00:18:42
outside in the lyic system it translates
00:18:45
them into information all your emotions
00:18:48
are is information there's no such thing
00:18:50
as good and bad feelings bad feelings
00:18:52
good feel no they're all good they might
00:18:55
be maladapted but but the point is
00:18:58
positive and negative emotions keep you
00:19:00
alive you need especially the negative
00:19:02
emotions I talk about negative emotions
00:19:04
all the time because they survival is
00:19:06
critical and so anger and sadness and
00:19:10
fear and disgust which are the big four
00:19:12
negative emotions these have kept you
00:19:13
alive thousands and thousands and
00:19:15
thousands of times really important that
00:19:17
information there then is relayed onto
00:19:20
the neocortex of the brain specifically
00:19:22
the prefrontal cortex the bumper of
00:19:23
tissue right behind your forehead where
00:19:25
you can figure out what are these
00:19:27
emotions what do they mean and how am I
00:19:28
going to react according to them now a
00:19:30
lot of times these signals are all
00:19:32
goofed up and and we're very reactive
00:19:36
which means that we're not letting our
00:19:37
prefrontal cortex catch up with our lyic
00:19:39
system and that's a lot of the work that
00:19:41
I do but back to enjoyment enjoyment is
00:19:45
not the same as pleasure because
00:19:46
pleasure is limic it's nothing more than
00:19:48
a signal where the ventral straight and
00:19:51
the reward center of your brain is
00:19:52
getting tapped in the lyic system saying
00:19:55
that thing is going to be good for
00:19:56
survival and passing on your genes
00:19:57
that's why feels good go do it sex and
00:20:00
sugar sex and sugar sex and sugar and a
00:20:02
lot and gambling Which social media has
00:20:05
a lot in common with slot machines and
00:20:06
all these little things that get back to
00:20:09
your primordial evolutionary past I know
00:20:11
you love The evolutionary biology and
00:20:12
psychology because this gives us so much
00:20:14
information about who we are today look
00:20:16
at the place to see and see yourself
00:20:18
kind of and and all of these things that
00:20:21
give us pleasure it's because they they
00:20:23
went back to survival and propagation of
00:20:25
the species so importantly all those
00:20:28
pleasure-filled things if you pursue
00:20:30
them you're just sitting in your lyic
00:20:32
system and modern technology and Society
00:20:34
will engorge these things into
00:20:36
incredibly unhealthy practices so you
00:20:38
get you know we have natural endorphins
00:20:40
that make us feel good and and help us
00:20:42
when we actually get hurt so that we can
00:20:44
get back to our cave and of course we've
00:20:46
chemically altered them into fentel
00:20:49
which feels great until you die fenel is
00:20:51
not a big thing in the UK but it's a
00:20:53
huge thing here it's huge I mean we have
00:20:54
a 100,000 drug overdose deaths every
00:20:57
year in the United States mostly because
00:20:59
of fentanyl it's unbelievable but that
00:21:01
that we have other versions of that you
00:21:02
know we can have stochastic experiences
00:21:05
you know things that that that happen
00:21:07
occasionally and give us a reward when
00:21:08
we when something happens um not in
00:21:12
predictably but
00:21:14
unpredictably um and so we make slot
00:21:16
machines and they give us all this that
00:21:18
you know tap into that that brain
00:21:21
chemistry or we want to propagate the
00:21:23
species and so we turn it into
00:21:24
pornography which is unbelievably
00:21:27
powerful and dangerous for the brain
00:21:28
because it captures the brain and
00:21:29
destroys relationships along the way
00:21:31
it's just feny in its way but all of
00:21:34
these things are just pleasure pleasure
00:21:36
anything that can be addictive which
00:21:39
pleasure-filled things typically can if
00:21:41
you if you do them compulsively over and
00:21:43
over and over again it will make you
00:21:45
less happy but here's know when people
00:21:47
ask me so does that mean I should never
00:21:48
drink alcohol I should never gamble no
00:21:51
no no no you need to add two things to
00:21:53
turn them into enjoyment you need to add
00:21:55
people in memory because if you add
00:21:57
people in memory to something then
00:21:59
you're moving the experience into your
00:22:00
prefrontal
00:22:02
cortex that's when it's fully human
00:22:04
that's when it's not an animal
00:22:06
experience it's a human experience and
00:22:08
that is a very important part of your
00:22:10
happiness and so the big question is if
00:22:12
something's addictive if you're doing it
00:22:14
alone you're probably doing it wrong
00:22:16
what about sex that's pornography and
00:22:19
masturbation is alone and that's not
00:22:21
good for you is the whole
00:22:23
point that's I mean again reasonable
00:22:26
people disagree and some people be like
00:22:27
what's this guy talking about but the
00:22:29
whole point is that that the data on
00:22:31
pornography or that it captures the
00:22:33
brain and ultimately it doesn't on
00:22:35
average lead to happier lives because it
00:22:38
truncates the reproductive experience at
00:22:41
the level of pleasure and doesn't take
00:22:42
it all the way to
00:22:44
enjoyment interesting yeah have you have
00:22:47
you studied porn much as a subject sort
00:22:50
of everybody in my field whes up there
00:22:52
it's not something that I focus that
00:22:53
much on cuz you know it's focusing on
00:22:56
the research on pornography makes you
00:22:58
look a little creepy at P
00:23:02
59 it's not a good look it's like so so
00:23:04
so what do you study it's like
00:23:06
yeah interesting so people in memory
00:23:09
turn pleasure into enjoyment to
00:23:12
enjoyment that's right so alcohol add
00:23:14
people in memory you know the anheiser
00:23:16
bush Corporation doesn't put out
00:23:19
advertisements of you know a dude alone
00:23:21
in his apartment pounding a
00:23:23
12-pack that's how a lot of people use
00:23:25
the product but that's everybody knows
00:23:28
that's an irresponsible dangerous thing
00:23:29
to do that can lead to alcoholism what
00:23:31
they show is the same guy with his
00:23:33
brothers and friends you know clink and
00:23:36
bottles together having a great time
00:23:37
that is pleasure alcohol plus people
00:23:40
plus memory equals enjoyment and that
00:23:42
leads to happiness because they want to
00:23:43
join their brand to happiness not just
00:23:46
to Pure Pleasure and certainly not to
00:23:48
addiction same with like Coca-Cola all
00:23:49
the Coca-Cola ads are like the world cup
00:23:51
with your friends and In Summer with
00:23:53
your friends and and that's actually
00:23:55
less addictive I mean there are certain
00:23:56
you know the sugar and and caffeine are
00:23:58
certainly adictive but they don't have
00:23:59
the same properties of of brain capture
00:24:02
in the same way for sure because they
00:24:03
don't they don't stimulate as much
00:24:05
dopamine as as you know something like
00:24:07
alcohol does and and so they're less
00:24:10
likely to make you really addicted but
00:24:11
the whole point is that they're it it
00:24:13
does give you a little bit of pleasure
00:24:14
but it makes you way happier if you get
00:24:16
to enjoyment and you only get that when
00:24:18
you're doing it with people satisfaction
00:24:21
satisfaction is the joy you get after
00:24:24
struggle you're an entrepreneur you
00:24:26
understand this one really well you're
00:24:27
at deferring your gratification all
00:24:29
entrepreneurs are good successful
00:24:31
entrepreneurs are good at deferring
00:24:32
gratification which means I'm going to
00:24:34
do this hard thing and it's going to get
00:24:36
big payoff and that payoff is going to
00:24:38
be
00:24:39
sweet that's satisfaction there a really
00:24:42
funny thing about humans is that we need
00:24:45
struggle and suffering for us to
00:24:47
actually get the joy that we seek and
00:24:48
that's a really important part of our
00:24:50
happiness so you find the people who are
00:24:52
better at deferring their gratification
00:24:54
get more satisfaction and they're
00:24:55
happier there's a lot of that remember
00:24:57
you've heard about the marshmallow
00:24:58
experiment yeah and you know people have
00:25:00
debunked it but they actually haven't so
00:25:02
the marshmallow experiment was taken
00:25:03
place it took place in the late' 60s
00:25:06
where Walter Michelle was a psychologist
00:25:07
at Stanford out in paloalto he had a you
00:25:10
know a little laboratory set up where he
00:25:13
would come in and sit down on one side
00:25:14
of a table and there was a kid on the
00:25:16
other side of the table between four and
00:25:17
eight years old and in front of the kid
00:25:19
was a marshmallow and so he says to the
00:25:21
kid you want the marshmallow the kid's
00:25:22
like yeah yeah he says I tell you what I
00:25:25
have to go take a phone call in the back
00:25:26
here but when I come back if the
00:25:28
marshmallow is still there I'll give you
00:25:30
another one can you wait every kid's
00:25:32
like yeah totally totally totally worth
00:25:34
it he comes back five minutes later or
00:25:37
so 80% of the kids had eaten the
00:25:39
marshmallow 20% of the kids hadn't now
00:25:41
that's a lot 80% of the kids could not
00:25:43
to further gratification so the real
00:25:45
question is who's the 20% it's Steve
00:25:49
Bartlett that these are the people that
00:25:51
went on to do distinguished things they
00:25:54
did better in school they got better
00:25:56
grades they went on to have more job
00:25:59
success they had better relationships
00:26:01
that's what they found that the most
00:26:03
successful kids now the that what people
00:26:06
fight about now is why whether it's
00:26:07
nature or nurture it's probably 50/50
00:26:10
like everything else in life it's both
00:26:12
nature and nurture but the bigger point
00:26:15
is good things come to those who wait
00:26:17
and when you wait you suffer and you
00:26:19
need that suffering as part of the basic
00:26:21
satisfying experience now the bigger
00:26:23
problem with satisfaction is that Mother
00:26:25
Nature has a big lie at the end of it
00:26:28
Mother Nature says if you get it you're
00:26:30
going to love it forever and that's not
00:26:32
true see the the the brain the brain
00:26:36
works emotionally and physically in um
00:26:39
an environment of homeostasis
00:26:40
homeostasis means that you always return
00:26:42
to your Baseline physiologically and
00:26:44
emotionally because you can't stay in a
00:26:47
in a in in an unusual physiological
00:26:49
State unusual states are are reaction
00:26:53
you need to be ready to react and so you
00:26:56
know you step off the tread Mill your
00:26:58
heart is elevated your heart goes back
00:27:01
to where it was so you're not dead in a
00:27:02
week the same thing is true for you
00:27:03
emotionally something really good or bad
00:27:05
happens to you you think it's going to
00:27:07
last forever so that you have an
00:27:09
incentive to avoid or approach the thing
00:27:12
but it doesn't last forever does it
00:27:14
that's the problem we actually think
00:27:17
that if I get that billion dollars it's
00:27:19
going to be really great and the first
00:27:21
thing that somebody who has a billion
00:27:22
dollars says to her himself is I guess I
00:27:26
needed another billion
00:27:28
because of homeostasis and that puts you
00:27:30
on something called the hedonic
00:27:31
treadmill more more more more more more
00:27:34
more more so that's the great conundrum
00:27:36
of the striver is that there's never
00:27:39
enough Never Enough never enough I deal
00:27:41
with people all day long I really
00:27:42
specialize in people who are incredibly
00:27:44
successful but not happy and a lot of
00:27:48
what I do is explain one simple equation
00:27:51
that both explains that but also gives
00:27:53
you the solution which is that your
00:27:55
satisfaction doesn't come from all the
00:27:57
things that you have so have more is not
00:28:00
the right strategy satisfaction is all
00:28:03
the things you have divided by the
00:28:05
things that you want halves divided by
00:28:08
wants successful people need to manage
00:28:11
their wants even more than they need to
00:28:13
manage their halves they need to want
00:28:15
less and that's a whole kettle of fish
00:28:18
that's spirituality that's discipline
00:28:20
that's Fitness that's diet that's a
00:28:23
whole lot of things that go into that
00:28:26
and that will help you actually get
00:28:27
enduring
00:28:29
satisfaction sounds like a contradiction
00:28:31
though doesn't it sounds like a
00:28:32
contradiction to that the striving and
00:28:34
the struggle is going to make me happy
00:28:36
but I should want less yeah what people
00:28:38
actually who crack this code and and a
00:28:40
lot of you know Eastern Traditions
00:28:42
actually get into this is not that
00:28:45
striving is bad but that striving in
00:28:47
itself has an has a a reward to it that
00:28:52
you that the process and what you find
00:28:54
out along the way is that what you
00:28:56
wanted was not a right rival what you
00:28:58
wanted was progress and then you start
00:29:00
to get the reward from the progress
00:29:01
itself there's a funny thing in the the
00:29:03
in the research on dieting we all know
00:29:05
that is the most expensive unsuccessful
00:29:07
industry in the world right 95% of diets
00:29:09
fail which means within a year people
00:29:11
have gained back all the weight that
00:29:12
they've lost but they're successful in
00:29:15
so far as that almost everybody loses
00:29:16
weight when they go on a diet here's the
00:29:19
thing about diets every day you're
00:29:21
willing to foro the food you like in
00:29:24
exchange for the reward which is the
00:29:26
scale going down
00:29:28
when you hit your goal it's going to be
00:29:30
so great it's going to be so great you
00:29:31
know what the reward is Dave you never
00:29:33
again get to eat the things that you
00:29:34
like for the rest of your life
00:29:35
congratulations once you've got there
00:29:37
that's why you fail and the arrival
00:29:40
fallacy which is an identifiable
00:29:41
phenomenon in my field is that it's
00:29:43
going to be sweet when I get to the goal
00:29:45
it isn't what you're going to have is
00:29:47
homeostasis when you get to your goal
00:29:49
frustration and disappointment therefore
00:29:51
you need to want less you need to think
00:29:53
about the about less about wanting these
00:29:56
arrival experience experiences and get
00:29:58
more satisfaction from the progress from
00:30:00
the journey that's really what it comes
00:30:03
down to and people who crack that code
00:30:05
over the course of self-discipline self-
00:30:07
understanding self-management they can
00:30:09
actually experience remarkably higher
00:30:11
satisfaction the dolly Lama I've been
00:30:13
working with the dolly llama closely for
00:30:14
the past 11 years and I asked him this
00:30:17
question how can I get lasting
00:30:20
satisfaction and he said you need to
00:30:23
want what you have not to have what you
00:30:26
want and that's what it comes down to
00:30:28
it's the management of my wants not my
00:30:36
Hales on that point we're at the time of
00:30:39
year now where so many people are
00:30:40
thinking about diets you mentioned that
00:30:42
there so for those people that are
00:30:44
approaching that moment and that you
00:30:45
know they're going to be setting their
00:30:46
goals and stuff and all those kinds of
00:30:47
things what is a better goal to set if
00:30:49
not a weight number or a financial
00:30:52
number or whatever what's a better more
00:30:54
realistic um goal to set that has more
00:30:56
chance of success yeah has it it's it's
00:30:59
interesting because there are certain
00:31:00
things that we can accumulate that won't
00:31:03
homeostatically return us to the
00:31:05
Baseline that won't throw us onto this
00:31:07
honic treadmill over and over and over
00:31:08
again those goals are the goals that
00:31:11
actually do lead to the happiest life
00:31:13
and the more you have the better off you
00:31:14
are or more actually is better but they
00:31:17
don't fall into the categories of money
00:31:19
power pleasure and fame which are the
00:31:21
typical kind of goals that we get or
00:31:23
related goals like weight loss or you
00:31:25
know whatever it happens to be the four
00:31:27
goals that really matter are Faith
00:31:30
Family friendship and work that serves
00:31:33
others those are the four really great
00:31:35
and Transcendent goals that we can have
00:31:37
now there's nothing wrong with money or
00:31:39
power or pleasure or fame there's
00:31:40
nothing wrong with those things but only
00:31:42
as intermediate goals to make it easier
00:31:44
for us to pursue and
00:31:46
accumulate deeper Faith or philosophical
00:31:49
life I'm not talking about traditional
00:31:50
religious Faith necessarily better
00:31:52
family relationships which are very
00:31:54
mystical um poorly understood even in
00:31:57
Neuroscience in a lot of ways friendship
00:32:00
deep friendship it's hard for a lot of
00:32:02
people especially successful people and
00:32:04
work that where you earn your success
00:32:06
and serve other people that's what it
00:32:08
comes down to so those are the right New
00:32:10
Year's goals that we need you know this
00:32:12
year what am I going to do what how am I
00:32:15
how am I going to grow closer to the
00:32:16
Divine how am I going to do that this
00:32:18
year what am I going to do to draw
00:32:19
closer to my family and to have a a more
00:32:22
intimate relationship with my family how
00:32:23
am I going to have deeper friendships
00:32:25
this year and how am I going to take my
00:32:26
work
00:32:27
and find it more meaningful and
00:32:30
satisfying on the basis of serving other
00:32:32
people how am I going to do that what
00:32:34
is we haven't got to meaning yet yeah we
00:32:37
haven't got to meaning yet you said the
00:32:38
word there but but I want to make sure I
00:32:40
close off on this point about a better
00:32:41
goal because there's still going to be a
00:32:43
huge group of people that go listen I
00:32:44
get it love it I believe it but I hate
00:32:47
this belly fat yeah I get it and this
00:32:49
belly fat yo-yos every year so so those
00:32:51
are intermediate goals and there's
00:32:52
nothing wrong with those things the
00:32:54
problem is where they become satisfying
00:32:56
and self-destructive is when that's the
00:32:57
final goal Because by the time you get
00:32:59
there you think why why that wasn't as
00:33:03
meaningful as I thought that wasn't as
00:33:04
good as I thought that's the arrival
00:33:06
fallacy that when I actually get rid of
00:33:08
the belly fat then I'm actually going to
00:33:09
have somehow a more wonderful life
00:33:12
that's actually not true the reason that
00:33:14
you're doing that is because you want to
00:33:16
live longer with your spouse and see
00:33:17
your and and you dandel your 11
00:33:19
grandchildren on your knee that's the
00:33:21
reason you want to do this because you
00:33:22
need to do it for some intrinsic reason
00:33:24
as opposed to an extrinsic reason having
00:33:26
to do with people will love me more I
00:33:28
mean it's amazing to me cuz I you know
00:33:30
I'm I do a lot of you know wellness and
00:33:32
fitness and stuff as it interacts with
00:33:34
happiness I I work with a lot of people
00:33:36
who are very big in the longevity
00:33:37
Community because I have sort of the
00:33:38
happiness console the science of the
00:33:40
happiness console that I put into those
00:33:41
things and and so I meet a lot of people
00:33:43
that are really into the fitness part
00:33:44
and and what what a lot of guys will
00:33:47
tell me is that they'll have these
00:33:49
fitness goals like I'm going to put on
00:33:52
15 pounds of muscle this year and I'm
00:33:53
going to get rid of all my belly fat and
00:33:55
the whole thing and and buy if they
00:33:57
stick to it by September or October
00:34:00
where they're finding is that you know
00:34:03
they're not getting any more attention
00:34:04
or compliments from women but a lot of
00:34:06
dudes are going looking good dude and
00:34:09
they're like that's not what I
00:34:12
wanted and part of the reason is because
00:34:14
the arrival fallacy is you build up this
00:34:16
image of what will actually come from
00:34:19
the the satis the satisfaction that will
00:34:21
come from hitting these intermediate
00:34:22
goals these aren't the right final goals
00:34:25
you got to have the right final goals
00:34:27
then set some intermediate goals along
00:34:28
the way but not let's not kid ourselves
00:34:30
and when you think carefully about that
00:34:32
that losing your last five pounds of
00:34:34
belly fat so you can see your lower
00:34:36
abs which by the way is not necessarily
00:34:39
that
00:34:41
healthy is going to materially improve
00:34:44
your life and your relationships it's
00:34:45
not just isn't what's a better end goal
00:34:47
then as it relates to Fitness would it
00:34:49
be something more centered on health
00:34:51
yeah it is something that's actually
00:34:53
sustainable and having you do with
00:34:54
health also with happiness is the way
00:34:56
that this works so I work out 60 minutes
00:34:58
a day it's not because I'm vain look I'm
00:35:00
like I got a face for radio Steve I mean
00:35:02
it's good I don't know what you're
00:35:03
talking about I know but it's age
00:35:05
adjusted I look good you know this I
00:35:07
think you look good period and I'm not
00:35:08
you know I've got a girlfriend but
00:35:11
credit where credits to you the thank
00:35:13
you Steve I appreciate that
00:35:15
but you made my week see this was my
00:35:18
goal
00:35:20
yeah but the reason that I do this is
00:35:22
because I find that for me that working
00:35:25
out as much as I can is much harder than
00:35:26
working out every day working out every
00:35:29
day is much easier than working out as
00:35:32
often as I can right amen yeah and
00:35:34
practicing my religion every day is much
00:35:37
easier than practicing my religion when
00:35:39
it when it comes naturally to me or when
00:35:41
I find it convenient eating healthily is
00:35:44
much easier when I do it every day and
00:35:45
so the result of that is that I find
00:35:46
that with those particular routines I
00:35:48
program those things into my life and
00:35:50
I'm a much happier guy look at lowers my
00:35:52
cortisol levels which are naturally very
00:35:54
high I'm a very anxious person um and
00:35:57
and I understand anxiety I understand
00:35:58
the cortisol production I understand how
00:36:00
to manage it and and this is one of my
00:36:01
management techniques thing about
00:36:03
Fitness to understand is when I say it
00:36:06
makes you happier it actually doesn't it
00:36:07
lowers your unhappiness happiness and
00:36:09
unhappiness largely the experiences of
00:36:13
happiness and unhappiness which is to
00:36:14
say posi positive and negative affect
00:36:17
they're produced in different parts of
00:36:18
the lyic system so you can both be very
00:36:21
high happiness and very high unhappiness
00:36:24
I have tests for that that I put my
00:36:25
students through you're probably
00:36:28
somebody who experiences both very high
00:36:30
positive effect and very high negative
00:36:31
effect we've only met but my guess is
00:36:34
that you're a mad scientist that's the
00:36:36
profile and so that means is you got two
00:36:39
strategies you want to keep your
00:36:40
positive effect high and you want to
00:36:42
manage your negative effect effect and
00:36:44
one of the best ways to manage your
00:36:45
negative effect effect is physical
00:36:46
exercise vigorous physical exercise
00:36:49
today today for me was leg day I hate
00:36:51
leg day but I feel pretty good right
00:36:55
now okay that makes sense I've got an
00:36:57
answer there that I that I'm super clear
00:36:59
on um I should be aiming at the end goal
00:37:02
of Happiness ultimately even if it the
00:37:05
intermediary goals are things like belly
00:37:06
fat and these short-term things that are
00:37:08
measurements of my progress towards the
00:37:09
bigger goal and the real key here is
00:37:13
consistency yeah I this was the big
00:37:15
unlock for my whole Fitness thing
00:37:16
because I was that person which will be
00:37:18
90% of people listening now that made
00:37:20
the goal every year that I was going to
00:37:21
go to you know change my life every year
00:37:23
never worked right because I was aiming
00:37:26
at getting a pack for summer so when I
00:37:28
arrived with the six pack and it worked
00:37:31
or summer it was great I look great I
00:37:32
got I actually got I think I got a
00:37:34
couple of compliments which was nice
00:37:37
however the minute summer finished or
00:37:39
the six-pack arrived I could not find
00:37:41
for the life of me the motivation no so
00:37:43
I'd go into winter and I'd become
00:37:44
there's no willpower that can that like
00:37:46
you cannot muscle these things out
00:37:48
unless they become a part of your life
00:37:50
consistency making my goal consistency
00:37:53
andits was the big unlock for me for
00:37:55
sure because then okay the goal
00:37:57
becomes if I go to the gym every day if
00:38:00
I make that part of my habits I'm going
00:38:01
to be healthier happier better at my job
00:38:04
[ __ ] is there anything more important
00:38:05
is that less important than a six-pack
00:38:08
and that mind set shift changed my life
00:38:11
for sure meaning then meaning was the
00:38:13
last of the three yeah meaning is the
00:38:16
why of your life this is the hardest for
00:38:18
most people especially young adults this
00:38:20
is really really hard so meaning is is
00:38:24
really a combination of three things
00:38:25
it's coherent purpose and significance
00:38:28
coherence is things happen for a reason
00:38:31
and so meaning in your life means you
00:38:32
got to have a theory about why things
00:38:34
happen like it's one damn thing after
00:38:36
another I mean you got to have some
00:38:37
concept of why things happen purpose is
00:38:39
my life has Direction and has goals
00:38:42
that's what purpose really is I'm going
00:38:44
in this direction toward these things
00:38:46
without getting stuck on the arrival
00:38:47
fallacy and the last but not least is
00:38:49
significance which is it would matter if
00:38:52
I weren't here I'm significant those are
00:38:55
the three parts of me meaning in
00:38:57
people's lives according to you know
00:38:59
philosophers and social psychologist so
00:39:00
there there's a test that I give my
00:39:02
students that kind of
00:39:03
encompasses these three ideas so you can
00:39:06
remember them into two questions and you
00:39:09
have a meaning crisis if you actually
00:39:11
don't have answers to these questions
00:39:13
that you believe and there's no right
00:39:15
answers you just got to have your
00:39:16
answers you want to play yeah here's the
00:39:19
quiz question number one why are you
00:39:24
alive you can answer that in terms of
00:39:27
who created you or what you're on Earth
00:39:28
to do both okay so why am I alive that's
00:39:32
something that I get to answer every
00:39:34
single day I get to Define that by what
00:39:36
I chose to do this morning when I woke
00:39:37
up what was it I went to the gym I was
00:39:40
on the running machine because I know
00:39:41
I've got a not going to be able to today
00:39:44
and then I came here and had this
00:39:45
conversation with you yeah but why are
00:39:47
you why are you doing this conversation
00:39:49
with me Steve the iag guy Theory comes
00:39:52
to mind when you ask that which is it's
00:39:54
incredibly selfish I learned a
00:39:56
tremendous amount already just from this
00:39:57
conversation and I know that it pays um
00:40:00
pays it forward to other people who are
00:40:02
going to going to learn from it as well
00:40:03
and that makes it feel worthwhile so you
00:40:05
said two things fun and service yeah
00:40:08
right which is more important to
00:40:10
you transcendentally which is more
00:40:12
important to you it's the service part
00:40:15
yeah okay good we're that gives me all
00:40:17
my that gives me all my Worth right but
00:40:19
the more you focus on that the better it
00:40:21
gets now we uncovered that so now
00:40:24
thinking about that you put the order of
00:40:26
operations into the podcast to say did
00:40:28
it does it serve is that guest going to
00:40:30
serve is this question going to serve is
00:40:32
this show going to serve is this
00:40:35
sponsor GNA serve the people who are
00:40:38
watching this podcast then suddenly
00:40:41
meaning starts to go starts to really
00:40:44
spread out of the soil because you we
00:40:45
got to that if it's like is it fun yeah
00:40:48
good so look my my whole have a company
00:40:51
and that that that rides alongside what
00:40:53
I do academically and everybody that
00:40:56
works with me we have an order of
00:40:58
operations and the order of operations
00:41:00
are these are the four goals but they
00:41:01
have to be in this order you just told
00:41:02
me that the order of operations is serve
00:41:04
other people and have fun for your work
00:41:06
that's what you basically said it's
00:41:08
probably more like lift people up and
00:41:10
have an adventure that's probably in
00:41:14
intellectual Adventure right but the
00:41:16
order of operations has to be right if
00:41:18
you're having fun more than you're
00:41:20
serving other people you're not going to
00:41:21
find your sense of meaning based on that
00:41:23
first question so you see you see where
00:41:25
we're going with that right
00:41:26
so the second question is harder for
00:41:29
what are you willing to die today
00:41:31
there's a couple of people in my life
00:41:32
that I die for I die for my romantic
00:41:34
partner i' die for my brothers and
00:41:37
sisters any of them
00:41:39
MH interestingly I don't know if I die
00:41:42
for my parents which is interesting did
00:41:44
you die for an
00:41:46
idea did you die for your
00:41:49
country I would die it when you say for
00:41:52
my country do you mean to save the
00:41:54
country I don't know I mean if you were
00:41:56
called to even if it were
00:41:59
ridiculous even if you thought it were
00:42:02
ridiculous would you die because you
00:42:04
love your
00:42:05
country it depends what you mean by that
00:42:07
what's the cost if I what's the cost if
00:42:09
I stay alive no I know and I and it's it
00:42:11
everything is context specific to a
00:42:13
certain extent but really what I'm I'm
00:42:15
trying to see is what's your what's your
00:42:19
kind of reaction is to this you know to
00:42:22
see what the there are good things in
00:42:24
there you are willing to die for your
00:42:25
girlfriend yeah Will to die for your
00:42:27
brothers and sisters Mom and Dad it's
00:42:29
like jur kind your mom listen to this
00:42:32
podcast they do but I'm just being
00:42:34
honest because I think I think I don't
00:42:37
know why I said that but I just I no for
00:42:39
sure this is good this is really
00:42:40
important right this is worth thinking
00:42:42
about right now the worst answer is I
00:42:46
don't know or nothing those are the
00:42:48
worst answers that doesn't mean it's a
00:42:49
problem on the contrary it's a huge
00:42:51
opportunity huge entrepreneurial
00:42:53
opportunity to realize you don't have
00:42:55
answers to these questions because you
00:42:57
don't have to go to you know get your
00:42:59
PhD in philosophy you don't have to sit
00:43:01
at the mouth of the cave with the guru
00:43:03
someplace in the himas you need to look
00:43:05
for your answers to these questions
00:43:07
that's it that's the quest that's the
00:43:09
Vision Quest so and when you see
00:43:12
somebody find these things like a lot of
00:43:14
young adults have they're nowhere near
00:43:16
you where you are on your journey you're
00:43:18
solid Steve I mean this is good stuff
00:43:20
but I meet a lot of people like why am I
00:43:23
alive cuz a egg met a sperm really
00:43:26
yeah and what are you willing to die for
00:43:29
nothing really or I don't know right A
00:43:31
lot of people and then they uncover that
00:43:33
they don't have a why is what it comes
00:43:35
down to repeat the questions again why
00:43:38
are you alive and for what are you
00:43:40
willing to die this very
00:43:42
day there's no wrong
00:43:45
answers I have so many young kids in
00:43:48
particular messaging me on Instagram
00:43:50
with the same question which is I think
00:43:52
Society Instagram quotes all of that
00:43:54
stuff has told them that they need to
00:43:55
find find their purpose and it seems
00:43:57
that they're in Hunt of their purpose
00:43:59
like it's some Easter egg um and you
00:44:01
think about that phrase itself find your
00:44:04
purpose it comes loaded with two
00:44:05
assumptions find which means you got to
00:44:07
go search for it and purpose which is a
00:44:09
singular word means there's one of them
00:44:11
somewhere and the unhappiness that I
00:44:14
sense because they were unable to find
00:44:17
this Easter egg somewhere that they've
00:44:19
been searching for causes them to feel
00:44:21
all kinds of inadequacy what do you say
00:44:24
to that yeah well part of it is because
00:44:26
that's the what we call in in business
00:44:29
the go find a rock theory of leadership
00:44:32
where the the CEO says to an employee go
00:44:35
give me a rock like what go give me a
00:44:37
rock okay so you go outside and you
00:44:39
bring a rock back in the boss says wrong
00:44:41
Rock that's not helpful right that's go
00:44:44
find your purpose that's the go find a
00:44:47
rock theory of leadership it's like what
00:44:49
rock how where do I look the world is
00:44:52
full of rocks that's so you need to be a
00:44:54
lot more specific and figuring out
00:44:57
deeply why you believe you're walking
00:44:59
the Earth why you actually are alive
00:45:01
besides just the mechanical you know
00:45:03
explanation for what we understand in in
00:45:05
10th grade biology the real why the Deep
00:45:08
why you're alive and and think really I
00:45:11
mean if with push came to shove I would
00:45:13
die for this I actually would die for
00:45:15
this thing that's when you understand
00:45:17
what your deepest values are that's when
00:45:19
you can actually write your mission
00:45:21
statement that's what it comes down to
00:45:23
and that's how people actually find is
00:45:25
opposed to just platitudes on the
00:45:27
internet of go find your purpose as if I
00:45:30
mean I I spent a lot of time in darmala
00:45:32
in in the Himalayan Foothills this where
00:45:33
the Dal Lama lives in in um in Northern
00:45:36
India and uh when I'm me in darm Solo
00:45:39
was a little village until the Daly Lama
00:45:43
went there about 1960 when he was exiled
00:45:45
from China when was kicked out of Tibet
00:45:47
and now it's not a metropolis but
00:45:50
there's tons of people there and there's
00:45:52
I meet a lot of westerners there there's
00:45:54
Seekers I'm a seek Seeker man gosh yeah
00:45:57
yeah I'm a seeker and so I'm going to go
00:45:59
to a place where I feel like there's a
00:46:00
lot of positive spiritual energy and
00:46:03
don't get me wrong I mean I've you know
00:46:04
I've studied meditation with the Dal
00:46:07
Lamas Tibetan Buddhist monks I mean it's
00:46:11
I'm a much better Catholic on the basis
00:46:12
of this I feel like I'm I'm I'm a deeper
00:46:14
Christian on the basis of this but the
00:46:17
idea of just going someplace and and and
00:46:19
randomly looking hoping that your
00:46:23
purpose just hunts you down is misguided
00:46:27
you have to have a much better more
00:46:29
specific sense of what you're looking
00:46:31
for and these things coherence
00:46:34
significance and purpose as part of
00:46:36
meaning or the way to do it and those
00:46:37
two questions are a good way at least to
00:46:39
get started there's going to be a huge
00:46:40
you know group of people that are listen
00:46:42
to this and thinking you know what I
00:46:43
don't have anything that I would die for
00:46:46
and I don't really know why I'm alive
00:46:48
yeah and that's just made me hugely good
00:46:50
news it's incredibly good news because
00:46:52
that's the basis of your adventure is to
00:46:55
find those things cuz in point of fact
00:46:57
there are things out there you just
00:46:58
don't know them yet and you haven't been
00:47:00
looking for them you've been who knows
00:47:02
what you've been looking for like maybe
00:47:04
even looking for what I like right why
00:47:07
is that wrong there's nothing wrong but
00:47:09
it's just not going to find it's not
00:47:10
going to be the secret of finding your
00:47:11
meaning what I enjoy is a different
00:47:14
pillar of Happiness a lot of people will
00:47:15
say if I figure out what I enjoy then
00:47:17
I'll find my meaning no those are
00:47:19
different there different you're over on
00:47:20
that branch of the tree you're trying to
00:47:22
get over on this branch of the tree
00:47:23
different questions so I'm that person
00:47:25
say that person now and I don't have
00:47:27
answers to either you tell me it's
00:47:28
that's a great place to be because it
00:47:29
means the start of my adventure yeah
00:47:31
what do I do put my shoes on and leave
00:47:33
the house what what Jo so there's a a
00:47:36
lot of different protocols you can
00:47:37
actually start depending on where where
00:47:39
you on your life one of the things that
00:47:40
I actually recommend is reading more not
00:47:43
reading garbage and dumb stuff and not
00:47:45
even reading the news I put people on a
00:47:47
protocol of 15 minutes a day of of of
00:47:50
real reading actually there's a
00:47:51
three-part plan you want to hear the
00:47:53
three-part plan to actually start
00:47:54
figuring out the answers of these
00:47:55
questions M you don't have to answer the
00:47:57
questions directly but number one is
00:47:59
start thinking to yourself what do I
00:48:02
think is right and wrong what are my
00:48:04
moral principles what are my moral
00:48:07
non-negotiables that's the moral basis
00:48:09
of living it's the foundation of
00:48:11
actually figuring out the answers to
00:48:13
your questions so for me that might be I
00:48:15
think like free speech is important for
00:48:17
example um treating people with dignity
00:48:20
equality cool right and this is going to
00:48:22
change over the course of your life too
00:48:23
so you know you're 28 years younger than
00:48:26
me when you're my age is going to be
00:48:27
different and and saying to yourself
00:48:29
that's good I want to change I want to
00:48:31
change I want to change and that means
00:48:32
that one of your non-negotiables is
00:48:35
moral flexibility perhaps really
00:48:38
important that you're able to evolve
00:48:39
right the world doesn't want you to
00:48:41
evolve the world wants you to be rigid
00:48:42
because you're a better soldier in the
00:48:44
culture War when you're not able to say
00:48:46
huh what I thought actually probably
00:48:48
isn't right huh weird right okay so so
00:48:51
that's that's number one is the moral
00:48:52
foundations and thinking about that you
00:48:54
know I I asked my students to take out a
00:48:56
piece of paper and write start writing
00:48:58
things down that they think he the
00:49:00
things that I actually think are right
00:49:02
and wrong here the basis of the way that
00:49:04
I want to live now this is a very yian
00:49:06
idea Carl Jung said that the basis of
00:49:08
happiness is figuring out what you
00:49:10
believe and acting according to it
00:49:11
living according to it that the basis of
00:49:13
unhappiness is living not in accord with
00:49:17
your own
00:49:19
morals in other words I believe these
00:49:21
things are right and wrong and I'm
00:49:22
systematically violating them it's so
00:49:24
incredibly empowering when talk to a
00:49:26
young woman or man and I say for example
00:49:30
what do you think is a decent way to
00:49:32
treat a member of the opposite sex when
00:49:34
you're on a date and they'll tell me and
00:49:36
I say are you acting according to that
00:49:38
they're like no I said that's why you're
00:49:39
unhappy according to Carl Yung but also
00:49:41
according to Common Sense Once you know
00:49:44
what that is and say I'm going to start
00:49:45
acting and living according to my own
00:49:48
principles your life starts to change
00:49:50
why is that so say someone right now is
00:49:52
for example cheating on their partner
00:49:54
but they know and they're against
00:49:56
cheating they're against cheating they
00:49:57
know it's everybody's against cheating
00:49:58
by the way betraying somebody you love
00:50:00
everybody's against betraying somebody
00:50:02
you love right that's actually natural
00:50:04
law if you believe there's any natural
00:50:05
law why is why why is that making them
00:50:07
unhappy that's making them unhappy
00:50:09
because that's doing violence to their
00:50:11
own sense of propriety you're hurting
00:50:12
yourself you know the most ancient
00:50:16
wisdom traditions and religious
00:50:17
Traditions when they talk about Sin you
00:50:19
know Islam and Christianity and Judaism
00:50:21
and Hinduism and name the religion
00:50:24
there's a concept of sin right sin in
00:50:27
almost every religious tradition is not
00:50:28
offending God it's hurting yourself it's
00:50:32
self-destructive Behavior you're doing
00:50:35
something not in accord with the way
00:50:37
that you want to live and in so doing
00:50:39
you're weakening yourself you're making
00:50:41
it harder for you
00:50:43
to understand yourself as a good person
00:50:46
as a person of Integrity as an upright
00:50:48
person which we actually need and again
00:50:50
there's a lot of go back to the social
00:50:52
psychology research on this we need to
00:50:54
see ourselves as good people it goes
00:50:56
back to your point as well about
00:50:57
helplessness and agency because if I
00:50:59
know that that is bad but I can't seem
00:51:01
to stop myself doing it yeah I'm telling
00:51:03
myself that I'm low agency and I'm
00:51:05
helpless I'm a victim of my own sin yeah
00:51:07
I'm a victim of my own weakness I'm a
00:51:09
victim of my own impulses so this is one
00:51:11
of the reasons that people will be like
00:51:14
I hate how I eat what are they actually
00:51:17
saying they're not saying that I I hate
00:51:19
you know I mean like I I'm a sugar Fiend
00:51:21
I love I just can't get enough of it I
00:51:24
don't drink alcohol but I drink tons of
00:51:25
sugar lots of sugar I shouldn't do it
00:51:28
now it doesn't offend my sense of
00:51:30
propriety to be sure right but I could
00:51:32
get to the point where I'm so unhealthy
00:51:34
that I hate that about myself because
00:51:35
I'm actually hurting myself but I'm
00:51:37
being controlled by my impulses this
00:51:40
getting in line with your own views and
00:51:42
making a plan and this is where the New
00:51:44
Year's resolutions about taking off the
00:51:46
weight
00:51:48
actually make sense because it's not
00:51:50
about the ab veins it's about being
00:51:53
morally consistent with your own view of
00:51:55
the person person that you want to be is
00:51:56
what this comes down but you can't do it
00:51:58
till you lay it out until you actually
00:52:00
put it in black and white write down
00:52:01
your moral philosophy I don't care how
00:52:03
dumb it is write down your moral
00:52:05
philosophy and say make a plan to start
00:52:07
living according to it that's the base
00:52:08
of the pyramid there's two other parts
00:52:11
okay the second part is a contemplative
00:52:13
tradition is contemplation you need more
00:52:17
contemplation such that you can
00:52:19
experience Transcendence now there's a
00:52:21
bunch of different ways to do this right
00:52:24
um this is why everybody wants to do
00:52:26
mindfulness meditation that's all that
00:52:28
is is basically is sitting still without
00:52:32
your phone and and and and focusing on
00:52:35
being alive so there a lot of ways to do
00:52:37
it there's informal ways to do it my
00:52:39
colleague Ellen Langer if you had her on
00:52:41
the show no super interesting person she
00:52:43
actually was the one who brought the
00:52:44
concept of mindfulness to the West about
00:52:46
30 years ago wow she wrote a book called
00:52:48
mindfulness she's a she was the first
00:52:50
woman tenured in the psychology
00:52:52
department at Harvard she's phenomenal
00:52:54
and she's just absolutely frustra and
00:52:56
and she says that mindfulness is best
00:52:58
practiced if you're sitting on the train
00:53:00
by putting away your phone putting your
00:53:01
hands in your lap and looking out the
00:53:02
window can they listen to this podcast
00:53:04
while they do that because no you should
00:53:07
listen to the podcast but not during
00:53:08
those periods okay and start with five
00:53:11
minutes of a of of just simple
00:53:13
contemplation of life now there are
00:53:14
other ways to do it prayer is a really
00:53:16
good way to do it too religious
00:53:17
Traditions are excellent at doing it but
00:53:19
people in a distracted world don't do
00:53:21
that at all you need to be in your head
00:53:24
you need to stop distracting yourself
00:53:26
and systematically stop distracting
00:53:28
yourself because in your default mode
00:53:31
Network you'll actually start to think
00:53:33
about things that actually matter
00:53:35
including the things that are in the
00:53:36
fundamental moral basis that you've that
00:53:38
you've started to formulate you need
00:53:40
contemplation I was thinking about this
00:53:42
last night I don't know why I was
00:53:43
thinking about this but this is how
00:53:44
weird I am I was thinking about why I
00:53:47
don't pray anymore because I grew up in
00:53:49
a Christian faith until the age of about
00:53:52
18 are you still Christian no and every
00:53:55
time we had dinner for my whole
00:53:57
childhood the family sit around the
00:53:58
table one of us would have would pray
00:54:00
and we'd just basically give thanks for
00:54:02
things we're you know grateful for right
00:54:04
and I stopped praying because I no
00:54:06
longer have the Christian faith but but
00:54:08
I was thinking last night it doesn't
00:54:09
mean I need to give up the prayer which
00:54:11
is just an exercise in gratitude to be
00:54:12
thankful for the nature of my life and
00:54:15
that would serve if and I don't have to
00:54:16
pray to something I can just pray for
00:54:19
gratitude well you can contemplate you
00:54:21
can contemplate the source of your
00:54:22
gratitude so gratitude listing is really
00:54:24
important way for to focus uh on the the
00:54:28
we're resentful creatures because we
00:54:29
have a negativity bias we have a
00:54:31
tendency to pay attention to the
00:54:32
negative things in our lives
00:54:33
disproportionately because that tendency
00:54:36
serves us for survival you know you know
00:54:39
you pay attention to the worst thing
00:54:40
that happened at the dinner not the best
00:54:42
thing that happened to the dinner for a
00:54:43
reason I mean we've evolved to the snap
00:54:46
of The Twig behind you does not make you
00:54:48
think oh bet that's my friend right so
00:54:51
that that's just how we're Revol and the
00:54:53
way to not that let that become all
00:54:55
adapted is for you to contemplate the
00:54:56
sources of your gratitude which are
00:54:58
incredibly abundant now the reason you
00:55:00
stop praying is because you don't
00:55:01
believe there's anybody on the other end
00:55:02
of the line listening yeah yeah you
00:55:04
think that you're it's like the ghost
00:55:05
phone in Japan after the after the the
00:55:08
tsunami the earthquake and tsunami a guy
00:55:11
set up a telephone booth that's not
00:55:13
connected where the phone is not
00:55:15
connected and 30,000 people have gone
00:55:17
and picked up the phone and talk to
00:55:19
their dead
00:55:21
relatives that's the ghost phone and um
00:55:25
that's not satisfying for you with with
00:55:27
respect to prayer because your kid
00:55:28
version of religion was the reason
00:55:31
you're doing that is because you're
00:55:32
talking to God you've got a direct
00:55:33
transmission mechanism to God and now
00:55:35
you don't think that's actually the case
00:55:36
so you stop doing the contemplation
00:55:38
right now it's probably
00:55:40
worth think rethinking an adult version
00:55:43
of your faith as opposed to being put
00:55:46
off by the a lot of people are really
00:55:48
put off by the kid version of their
00:55:49
faith it's like really yeah like all
00:55:52
weird stuff and doesn't make doesn't
00:55:53
make sense but a a
00:55:55
most likely according to the data you're
00:55:57
going to start becoming interested in
00:55:59
your Christian faith again as you get
00:56:01
older it doesn't mean you're going to
00:56:02
have the same faith that you had on the
00:56:03
contrary you probably won't but you'll
00:56:05
start being like you know there's
00:56:06
certain things I miss about that and and
00:56:09
life actually is messy and there is
00:56:12
suffering that's hard to explain but
00:56:14
there's lots of things in life that are
00:56:15
hard to explain and maybe there's
00:56:17
something in there that I didn't
00:56:18
understand before so openness to that
00:56:20
I'm not saying for sure but I'm saying
00:56:22
just be open to it and then the top is
00:56:25
wisdom and that requires reading or or
00:56:28
you
00:56:30
know the accumulation of knowledge not
00:56:32
everybody's a big reader and there's so
00:56:33
many different ways to get good
00:56:35
information at this point pod podcast
00:56:37
for example but the whole point is is
00:56:39
reading or or acquiring information in
00:56:42
the wisdom tradition so uh you know read
00:56:46
the stoic philosophers read the nicomaki
00:56:49
and ethics of Aristotle read the babad
00:56:52
Gita read the Quran read the Bible read
00:56:56
read read and start with 15 minutes a
00:56:57
day of that kind of reading which you
00:56:59
can go years saying I wish I read it and
00:57:01
you don't right I mean it's it's crazy
00:57:03
we'll spend all this time scrolling
00:57:05
Instagram when we could spend just 15
00:57:07
minutes a day reading the meditations of
00:57:09
Marcus
00:57:10
aelius and and the letters of Sena and
00:57:13
they incredibly enriching right it's
00:57:16
like whoa boom starting at 15 minutes a
00:57:19
day so do the work what do I believe
00:57:24
spend some time in contemplation and do
00:57:26
the reading your life's about to change
00:57:29
that's the protocol that's the Tibetan
00:57:31
Buddhist protocol for actually
00:57:33
finding F starting to find meaning in
00:57:35
your life but I've I've prescribed this
00:57:37
to others and I've done it myself and
00:57:39
this really works it helps you find on
00:57:41
the path to the answers to those
00:57:43
questions build the life you
00:57:45
want it's a book it's a book sat in
00:57:48
front of me here that that has your name
00:57:50
on it and who's this Oprah Winfrey I'd
00:57:54
like to give you young authors a leg
00:57:56
up how did you so you co-wrote this book
00:57:59
with Oprah yeah yeah how how did you
00:58:01
meet Oprah she called me turns out she's
00:58:04
a I know it's it's she this is Oprah
00:58:06
Winfrey I'm like yeah I'm Batman I mean
00:58:10
it was Oprah Winfrey The Voice she's
00:58:12
iconic all over the world for sure and
00:58:15
it turns out that she was a regular
00:58:17
reader of my column in the Atlantic on
00:58:19
Thursday mornings how to build a life
00:58:20
which is a different area of the signs
00:58:22
of happiness every week that I cover and
00:58:24
read my last book which is called from
00:58:26
strength to strength finding success
00:58:28
happiness and deep purpose in the second
00:58:29
half of life right so that was a book
00:58:32
she read on the first day it came out
00:58:33
and I went on her Super Soul podcast and
00:58:35
we were thick as thieves just
00:58:37
immediately because we have the same
00:58:39
goals as lift people up and bring him
00:58:41
together in the spirit of happiness and
00:58:42
love she does it differently because
00:58:44
she's not an academic she has incredible
00:58:48
platform I've never seen a platform like
00:58:51
she has where you know she says one
00:58:52
thing and people are like H that's it's
00:58:54
good thing to do but she's always
00:58:56
looking for it's interesting because she
00:58:58
has the money and power and fame and she
00:59:00
uses them she's cracked the code she
00:59:03
uses them in service of other people and
00:59:06
that's her whole goal from the very
00:59:08
beginning she's never said anything to
00:59:09
disabuse me of the idea that that's how
00:59:11
she lives and uh we started doing some
00:59:14
some things together and some podcast
00:59:16
together and she called up and she said
00:59:18
you know if I had my show still she for
00:59:21
25 years she had this iconic show on
00:59:22
television in the United States called
00:59:24
the Oprah win show and millions and
00:59:26
millions of people watched it every day
00:59:28
and went off the air in about 2014 or
00:59:29
something she says if I had my show I'd
00:59:31
have you on 30 times and then you'd have
00:59:33
your show she said but I don't have the
00:59:35
show anymore so let's do kind of a
00:59:37
version of that and let me host a
00:59:39
book and and so we wrote the book
00:59:42
together all over the last winter in the
00:59:44
winter of 2022 2023 I went away to she
00:59:47
lives in mono California I live I went
00:59:50
and got a house in San CL California and
00:59:52
we we structured the thing and you know
00:59:55
at her place and we went back and forth
00:59:57
on the and it was just blast it was
01:00:01
about you know how to manage yourself
01:00:02
and once you're able to manage your own
01:00:04
feelings and emotions like a pro then
01:00:06
you'll no longer be distracted and you
01:00:08
can focus on the things that actually
01:00:09
matter for your life and that's how you
01:00:10
build your life and you you called me um
01:00:14
a mad scientist earlier I'd have to take
01:00:17
the test I think you nailed it I think
01:00:20
you nailed
01:00:21
it most likely yeah a which is that
01:00:24
which appears in your book in the the
01:00:26
section about the unique sort of unique
01:00:28
mix of um Happiness and happiness and
01:00:30
you talk about this panas schore system
01:00:33
what are these categories and why did
01:00:34
you call me a mad scientist so the panis
01:00:37
test is in the book and it's actually on
01:00:38
the website um at Arthur brooks.com
01:00:41
where anybody can take it for free it's
01:00:42
a it's a personality test based on the
01:00:45
intensity of your positive and negative
01:00:47
affect AKA
01:00:49
mood everybody's got more or less the
01:00:51
same emotions everybody feels joy and
01:00:54
interest and surprise and anger and
01:00:57
sadness and disgust and and and fear but
01:01:00
we have them in different intensities
01:01:01
depending on who we are and there's
01:01:03
really four kinds of people with these
01:01:05
different intensities there's some
01:01:07
people that have very high affect High
01:01:09
positive affect they have high highs and
01:01:13
high negative effect effect low lows
01:01:16
these are mad scientists that's a
01:01:17
quarter of the population Now by
01:01:19
construction it's the quar of the
01:01:20
population because it's above average on
01:01:21
both then there are people who are high
01:01:23
highs and
01:01:25
low lows I mean I should say that they
01:01:27
have intense positive emotion but but
01:01:30
weak negative emotion right these are
01:01:33
cheerleaders okay so they have they feel
01:01:37
their positive affect very intensely and
01:01:39
their negative effect effect very weakly
01:01:41
oh okay so they're like always happy
01:01:43
they're not always happy but they tend
01:01:45
to they tend to be in a better mood and
01:01:47
see the brighter side of things they
01:01:49
tend to downgrade threats and think
01:01:53
everything is going to be okay okay
01:01:54
that's a quarter of the population M and
01:01:56
everybody wants to be that by the way
01:01:58
but that's not necessarily the best way
01:02:00
to be and they don't make the best CEOs
01:02:01
because they're they have a hard time
01:02:03
paying attention to threats they don't
01:02:05
want bad news and they have a terrible
01:02:06
time giving bad news or giving people
01:02:08
bad valuations so working for a CEO
01:02:11
who's a cheerleader is great for a
01:02:12
minute but then it starts to become very
01:02:14
frustrating because you hear him telling
01:02:15
the the incompetent idiot in the cubicle
01:02:18
next to you that that she's doing an an
01:02:20
unbelievably good job ah okay so you I
01:02:22
mean you got to be realistic to be a
01:02:24
good I mean you're an entrepreneur you
01:02:25
know perfectly there's lotss of threats
01:02:26
out there you got to take them seriously
01:02:28
yeah yeah yeah so then there are people
01:02:29
who are high negative low positive these
01:02:32
are poets these are people who generally
01:02:35
speaking there's a place in the lyic
01:02:36
system called the ventrolateral
01:02:38
prefrontal cortex that's the part that
01:02:40
makes you a ruminator ruminators are
01:02:44
people who this part of the brain this
01:02:46
this part of the brain is dedicated to
01:02:50
making on problems and negative things
01:02:52
and regret and that I can't believe that
01:02:54
I said that thing I feel so stupid for
01:02:55
saying that thing and what does she
01:02:57
really think of me etc etc it's also the
01:02:58
part of the reing that you use when
01:02:59
you're highly creative comedians yeah
01:03:02
well for sure for sure you know I pal
01:03:04
around with a guy Nam rain Wilson who
01:03:06
was in the American version of the
01:03:07
office he played Dwight and Rain told me
01:03:09
that comedians tend to be depressed but
01:03:11
the reason is because they find out that
01:03:14
they're funny and they can substitute
01:03:16
humor for sadness it's a substitute
01:03:19
emotion it's called a metacognitive
01:03:20
Technique we talk a lot about that in
01:03:21
the book so then poets are they tend to
01:03:24
be high ruminators so high negative
01:03:27
affect they focus a lot of negative
01:03:29
things because of this hyperdeveloped
01:03:30
part of their brains they also tend to
01:03:33
be really creative because that's the
01:03:35
same part of your brain that when you're
01:03:36
working on a business plan or a symphony
01:03:39
and they also tend to be romantic
01:03:41
because infatuation is ruminating on
01:03:43
another person that's kind of the poet
01:03:46
profile right and then last but not
01:03:48
least there's low low people who are low
01:03:50
affect people these are Judges these are
01:03:52
people who they they're happy and
01:03:53
unhappy but they feel their moods less
01:03:56
intensely than other people and so they
01:03:58
they don't freak out you know these are
01:04:01
really good surgeons these are really
01:04:03
good judges they're very good Secret
01:04:06
Service agents you don't want somebody
01:04:08
to cut you open and say oh my God you
01:04:11
you don't want your surgeon to be like
01:04:12
that and so there's a a gift and a role
01:04:16
for all four of these quadrants most
01:04:18
great entrepreneurs are mad scientists
01:04:21
because they they the reason that
01:04:23
they're Entre is because they want to
01:04:25
feel things intensely because everything
01:04:27
is intense and they do everything
01:04:28
intensely right you don't have that many
01:04:30
people who are just like super chill
01:04:32
like
01:04:33
yeah interesting yeah it fits that's why
01:04:37
you just having a deep conversation with
01:04:39
you you I can see that you have a lot of
01:04:42
mad scientific characteristics to you
01:04:44
you feel things deeply is that fair it
01:04:47
is fair yeah I mean that's the one I I
01:04:49
resonate with the most and I do describe
01:04:50
myself as being a bit intense my team
01:04:52
know me I think I'm I think I come
01:04:53
across as a bit intense what's your
01:04:55
girlfriend I'm going to say that she is
01:04:57
a cheerleader a I'm married to a
01:05:00
cheerleader oh really yeah and what you
01:05:02
find is that cheerleaders they can they
01:05:04
can have the best of times but
01:05:07
cheerleaders tend to be struggle with
01:05:09
the mad scientist yeah right it's like
01:05:12
like why like everything's so great for
01:05:14
you why are you gloomy you know it's
01:05:16
like why can't you look in the bright
01:05:18
side of things like why are you grouchy
01:05:20
all the time what's wrong with you Steve
01:05:21
like there's a spelling mistake on our I
01:05:23
know it's like why why is that bothering
01:05:25
you yeah yeah so that's That's a classic
01:05:28
thing everybody can be with everybody
01:05:30
else but the compliments are really
01:05:31
important the biggest mistake that
01:05:33
people make in dating markets is they
01:05:34
look for their their op they look for
01:05:36
the their their doppelganger they look
01:05:39
for their clone you shouldn't look for
01:05:41
your clone you should look for your
01:05:42
compliment why because you'll be happier
01:05:44
when you complete each other that's when
01:05:46
people who complete each other you find
01:05:47
that very happy marriages often happen
01:05:49
between an introvert and an extrovert if
01:05:51
they learn to appreciate each other so
01:05:52
it's not you know hammer and T songs all
01:05:54
the time for the differences but when
01:05:56
people for example one of the reasons
01:05:57
that dating apps are so unsuccessful for
01:05:59
giving people you know satisfactory
01:06:01
dating experiences people have more and
01:06:03
more and more choice but they're more
01:06:04
likely to say they're not satisfied with
01:06:06
the people they're dating and not
01:06:07
attracted to the people that they're
01:06:08
dating it's because they'll set up a
01:06:10
dating profile saying I vote this way I
01:06:12
like this music I live here I like these
01:06:15
things I want somebody with these
01:06:16
preferences and they get somebody who's
01:06:18
their sibling which is as my adult
01:06:20
children will remind me is not
01:06:23
hot difference is hot it's so true
01:06:26
because I never would have said I want
01:06:28
someone that is spiritual um that is
01:06:31
really involved in spirituality and
01:06:32
believes in things that you just can't
01:06:34
see my girlfriend believes in all the
01:06:35
chakras and these energies and she'll
01:06:38
read and she just believes in it all and
01:06:39
it's funny because I never would have
01:06:41
said that's what I wanted but I
01:06:42
absolutely love it and that means that I
01:06:44
actually she's actually pulled me into
01:06:45
her world she's made me more spiritual
01:06:47
she's made me believe in things I never
01:06:49
would have believed before uhhuh and
01:06:51
she's completing me in that regard it's
01:06:52
really great it's really great you mean
01:06:54
you crack the code in that way and
01:06:55
finding all the ways that you're
01:06:56
different and celebrating those
01:06:57
particular differences is really key to
01:07:00
a to a good relationship and not wishing
01:07:02
the person were more like you this is
01:07:04
very important that this is a
01:07:05
relationship killer is that wishing that
01:07:08
your partner were more like you is is
01:07:10
just a form of egotism everyone tries to
01:07:12
change their partner though don't they
01:07:14
yeah well I mean it's interesting it's
01:07:15
like there's there's the old Axiom that
01:07:17
women are frustrated because they
01:07:18
thought they could change their husbands
01:07:21
and they can't and and um h husbands are
01:07:24
frustrated because they thought their
01:07:25
wives would never change and they do I
01:07:27
don't
01:07:28
know there is truth in that
01:07:31
relationships and love how important is
01:07:33
this as a subject for happiness it's the
01:07:35
number one area of interest of my
01:07:37
students really my average student is 28
01:07:39
years old so they're MBA students
01:07:40
they're Master's students they've all
01:07:41
gone through college they've gone to
01:07:42
work and they've come back to the
01:07:44
Harvard Business School you have to have
01:07:45
some business experience to get the
01:07:46
business master's degree and this is the
01:07:49
number one thing they want to talk about
01:07:50
they want to learn about they want to
01:07:51
learn about it scientifically they want
01:07:53
toar learn about the neurochemical
01:07:55
Cascade of what's actually happening in
01:07:56
your brain and at what point you can't
01:07:58
control it anymore we have a lot of case
01:08:00
studies at the business school about you
01:08:01
know CEOs who were dismissed for
01:08:03
inappropriate relationships with
01:08:05
subordinates I mean it's a classic theme
01:08:08
you know it's I and the last line of the
01:08:10
case study is I was the the CEO looking
01:08:12
out the window of the train after being
01:08:13
dismissed going I don't know what
01:08:15
happened yeah and so we look at brain
01:08:17
scans and say this is what happened and
01:08:19
you can see it in the brain kind of I
01:08:21
mean that somebody who's really in love
01:08:23
uh has you brain activity it looks an
01:08:25
awful lot like a methamphetamine addict
01:08:26
brain scan I mean your brain is if
01:08:29
you're at a certain point in the falling
01:08:31
love process your brain is captured so I
01:08:33
mean at the beginning when people meet
01:08:34
there's a there's a a hormonal um
01:08:37
reaction with testosterone and estrogen
01:08:39
which are you know sex hormones
01:08:40
obviously and you know when people see
01:08:41
somebody who's really attractive that's
01:08:42
why they they want to look attractive
01:08:44
because that's the that's the ignition
01:08:46
mechanism that typically happens after
01:08:48
that you see a big uh increase in in
01:08:51
noradrenaline AKA nor um epinephrine and
01:08:54
dopamine level so you have anticipation
01:08:56
of reward and Euphoria that's sort of
01:08:59
the second line of things that tend to
01:09:01
happen in this chemical Cascade that's
01:09:03
going on when you're falling in love
01:09:05
after that you see a dip in serotonin
01:09:08
which is really interesting so serotonin
01:09:09
we think about as the as the neurom
01:09:11
modulator of of peace and happiness
01:09:14
which is what a lot of the psychiatric
01:09:15
drugs are trying to manipulate when when
01:09:18
they feel that it's an imbalance so
01:09:19
people who are clinically depressed will
01:09:20
often get selective serotonin reuptake
01:09:22
Inhibitors meaning you maintain a higher
01:09:24
level of Serotonin and that's all really
01:09:26
controversial still I mean because we
01:09:28
don't really understand that very well
01:09:30
but we do know that when people are
01:09:31
falling in love that they're more likely
01:09:34
to be ruminative and infatuated remember
01:09:37
that part of the brain the ventrolateral
01:09:38
prefrontal cortex that does rumination
01:09:40
it'll be more active when serotonin is
01:09:42
low and so serotonin will be low so you
01:09:45
start ruminating on the other person
01:09:47
that's when the infatuation part of the
01:09:48
relationship really kicks in and then
01:09:50
you get to the point of attachment which
01:09:52
is which is invol which involves
01:09:54
oxytocin which is a neuropeptide that
01:09:56
functions as a hormone that makes you
01:09:58
attached to the other person very
01:10:00
profoundly attached to the other person
01:10:02
that's intensely pleasurable so it's
01:10:04
like and the longer you let it go the
01:10:08
harder it is for your brain not to be
01:10:09
really really captured you wouldn't go
01:10:11
to a methamphetamine addict and say why
01:10:13
did you buy methamphetamine that's
01:10:16
illegal they' be like I'm an I'm an
01:10:18
addict I'm a junkie it's the same thing
01:10:20
as when somebody's sleeping with a
01:10:21
subordinate are people that are in love
01:10:24
in in relationships happier
01:10:26
statistically no on the contrary because
01:10:29
being in love especially in the early
01:10:30
stages of being in love is not
01:10:32
associated with what we would associate
01:10:33
with actual happiness because it has
01:10:36
jealousy tons of jealousy which is you
01:10:39
know the rumination part when your
01:10:40
serotonin levels are really low it's
01:10:42
hard for you to say ah I feel so great
01:10:44
you feel euphoric and you like it in its
01:10:47
own way but if you kept that if you
01:10:48
stayed in that stage you'd go out of
01:10:50
your mind and you'd be miserable because
01:10:52
there's jealousy there's surveillance
01:10:54
behaviors are really common and you know
01:10:57
this there's no nobody would say that
01:10:59
when I'm surveilling my intimate partner
01:11:01
that's when I'm
01:11:02
happiest nobody likes that but but
01:11:04
people tend to do that because you're
01:11:06
there's a lot of your brain is basically
01:11:08
saying I'm trying to figure out if this
01:11:09
is somebody who's going to betray me
01:11:11
back to evolution is this somebody who's
01:11:13
going to wander off and raise somebody
01:11:15
else's kids is this somebody who's going
01:11:16
to be when I don't know it carrying
01:11:19
somebody else's baby which is how men
01:11:21
and women actually they tend to express
01:11:23
sexual jealousy in those two interesting
01:11:26
there's a guy at um University of Texas
01:11:28
at Austin that studies jealousy the most
01:11:30
jealousy provoking thing for men is an
01:11:34
image of their intimate partner having
01:11:35
sex with somebody else for women it's an
01:11:38
image of their intimate partner saying I
01:11:39
love you to somebody else and the reason
01:11:42
is because traditionally or
01:11:44
evolutionarily women have to be worried
01:11:48
that their partner is going to take go
01:11:50
take care of somebody else's children
01:11:52
and men have to be worried that they're
01:11:53
not the actual father of the children
01:11:55
which According to some estimates is 15%
01:11:57
of paternity which is misattributed
01:12:00
worldwide makes sense that's a
01:12:03
lot no it makes sense well so
01:12:05
fortunately my kids look like me yeah I
01:12:07
one that's adopted she doesn't look like
01:12:09
me this idea in chapter four of your
01:12:11
book of focusing Less on yourself leads
01:12:14
to happiness how can you prove that's
01:12:15
the case so there's a there's a lot of
01:12:19
experimental tests that actually show
01:12:20
this using human subjects and so one of
01:12:21
the classic uh experiments there's these
01:12:23
guys at at Northwestern there's a
01:12:25
fabulous social psychologist named Adam
01:12:27
weights I don't know if you've had him
01:12:28
on your show before he's a really
01:12:29
impressive and Innovative social
01:12:31
psychologist he did a an experiment
01:12:33
where he took the undergraduate students
01:12:34
you always use the undergraduate pool at
01:12:36
your University because they'll do
01:12:37
literally anything for 20 bucks and and
01:12:39
and he put them into three groups one
01:12:41
had to do moral Deeds they had to do
01:12:43
random acts of kindness one had to do
01:12:46
moral thoughts they had to sit and think
01:12:48
beautiful thoughts about other people
01:12:49
and one had to do self focus sort of
01:12:51
self-care things go do something
01:12:53
something that really makes you feel
01:12:54
good and they looked at their happiness
01:12:56
over you know a series of weeks with
01:12:59
these interventions and we they found
01:13:00
that moral Deeds were happier than moral
01:13:02
thoughts and moral thoughts were happier
01:13:04
than self-care that's what they found in
01:13:06
other words you and again this this is
01:13:09
basically showing the same thing that
01:13:11
you know I did research for years and
01:13:13
years and years about happiness and
01:13:14
sharable giving if you're lonely the
01:13:16
most important thing you can do is
01:13:17
volunteer just is if you give money away
01:13:21
statistically you're more likely to make
01:13:22
more money next year incredible
01:13:25
investment strategy and the reason is
01:13:27
because you see yourself as an agent of
01:13:29
of positive change you're empowered when
01:13:32
you're helping other people you when you
01:13:34
give love you get love that's the bottom
01:13:37
line is what it comes down to and so all
01:13:38
of these experiments find kind of the
01:13:40
same thing if you put uh you know two
01:13:42
groups randomly selected of people um
01:13:44
one group is playing board games and the
01:13:46
other is helping you know sixth graders
01:13:48
with their math the ones helping sixth
01:13:49
graders with their math will have a mood
01:13:51
boost for days afterward I mean this is
01:13:54
just helping other people helps you not
01:13:57
focus on the Psycho Drama inside Steve's
01:13:59
head and it makes it so that life
01:14:02
actually has a Transcendent aspect to it
01:14:04
you get perspective you get peace and
01:14:06
furthermore you get empirical
01:14:09
confirmation that you are that person
01:14:11
that you want to be is happiness or
01:14:14
negativity contagious yes that's
01:14:16
emotional contagion there's a lot of
01:14:17
literature on emotional contagion it's a
01:14:18
virus it's a mind virus negativity is a
01:14:21
virus negativi is a virus but so is POS
01:14:23
positivity that you can actually so you
01:14:25
find that you know when I go into
01:14:26
companies which I do a lot these days I
01:14:27
do a lot of Happiness teaching inside
01:14:30
you know executive teams and
01:14:31
corporations and when I walk into a
01:14:33
company I can I can I can pretty quickly
01:14:35
ascertain which virus is going around
01:14:38
you know this is why the mood and
01:14:40
emotional well-being and emotional
01:14:41
self-management of CEOs is so critically
01:14:43
important because you know everybody's
01:14:45
like oh the bosses the boss is having a
01:14:47
hard time today though I think a boss
01:14:49
got yelled at this morning at breakfast
01:14:50
or whatever it happens to be because the
01:14:52
they can see it and the result is it
01:14:54
tends to the virus tends to pass around
01:14:56
a this sucks attitude is horrible inside
01:14:59
families and we see it and it will
01:15:01
transmit from one person to one person
01:15:03
to another person to another person
01:15:04
that's why it's hard to live with a high
01:15:06
negative affect person that's why
01:15:08
because High negative affect people will
01:15:10
spread a negativity virus even if you
01:15:13
live down the street well it depends on
01:15:15
how much contact you have with that
01:15:17
person and so you know that's why you
01:15:18
want your kids to hang out with positive
01:15:20
friends that's why would you you'll when
01:15:23
you have your kids and when my kids were
01:15:24
little they would have that one friend
01:15:25
who's like happy all the time you love
01:15:27
that kid you have the one kid who's just
01:15:28
bummed out all the time you're like I
01:15:30
don't want my kid to be around that
01:15:31
because that that infects the attitudes
01:15:34
of of the of your children in the book
01:15:36
you say living within a mile of a friend
01:15:38
or family member who becomes happier
01:15:39
makes you 25% likelier to become happier
01:15:43
too if you have contact with that person
01:15:45
obviously it it's not going to transmit
01:15:47
just through the air it's not you know
01:15:48
it's not the Corona virus but uh but you
01:15:51
have to have contact with the person but
01:15:52
you know and the way that they they
01:15:54
measured that that's called the
01:15:55
Framingham heart study which was out in
01:15:57
fra that's a suburb of Boston but for
01:15:59
many many many years they were looking
01:16:01
at the trajectory of people's lives to
01:16:03
look at heart you know issues but then
01:16:06
they started measuring everything else
01:16:07
and they found for example that obesity
01:16:09
is highly is is is very easy to catch
01:16:13
when your friends become obese you
01:16:15
become more obese that when your friends
01:16:16
get divorced you're more likely to get
01:16:18
divorced that when your friends get
01:16:19
happy you're more likely to get happy is
01:16:21
what we see and and and the more
01:16:23
proximity that they have to you measured
01:16:25
geographically or in terms of the
01:16:26
intimacy of the relationship the
01:16:28
stronger the transmission mechanism I
01:16:30
think a lot about that and how we take
01:16:31
on other people's problems when they're
01:16:33
friends and family um what you say to
01:16:36
that and does it matter that we take on
01:16:37
other people's problems sort of I mean
01:16:40
that's there's a big distinction between
01:16:41
empathy and compassion so the best way
01:16:43
to be a parent or a partner or a friend
01:16:45
is to be compassionate and that's not
01:16:46
the same thing as empathy our society
01:16:49
overvalues empathy empathy is feeling
01:16:51
somebody else's pain that's Tak taking
01:16:53
on their problems the worst parents of
01:16:55
teenagers are empathetic or highly
01:16:57
empathetic people it's like yeah I feel
01:16:58
your pain why because you're not
01:17:00
actually helping you got to do things
01:17:02
that that that you know I may feel your
01:17:04
pain but I can't be I can't be paralyzed
01:17:06
by that on the contrary I got to do hard
01:17:08
things you're not going to like son
01:17:10
that's what being it that's the reason
01:17:11
we always say you're not his friend
01:17:13
you're his dad you know and that's means
01:17:15
be compassionate don't be empathetic the
01:17:17
same thing is true with the big level I
01:17:19
mean I I would argue that our our
01:17:21
welfare systems in our countries are
01:17:23
need to be more compassionate um as
01:17:25
opposed to Simply empathetic and you
01:17:27
know that's and that we could actually
01:17:28
help people a lot more too being
01:17:30
compassionate means being hard as steel
01:17:32
and doing the things that people
01:17:34
actually need because you love them not
01:17:36
just because you're actually feeling
01:17:37
their pain so in our families we need to
01:17:40
say what does this person that I love
01:17:42
actually need notwithstanding the
01:17:44
feelings that they're transmitting to me
01:17:46
and sometimes that means you got to care
01:17:47
for your own happiness like they say in
01:17:49
the plane put on your own oxygen mask
01:17:51
first take care of your own happiness so
01:17:53
you're not you're not getting this
01:17:55
negativity virus all the time being
01:17:56
paralyzed by somebody else's pain you're
01:17:58
not going to help him enough no it's
01:18:00
almost never well I mean there there are
01:18:01
cases when somebody is just a Schism but
01:18:04
I I only recommend pican family Schism
01:18:06
when there's abuse and you know somebody
01:18:09
being unhappy is not abuse political
01:18:11
differences really not abuse those are
01:18:13
that's a it's like one in six Americans
01:18:16
in this country is not speaking to a
01:18:17
family member because of Pol political
01:18:19
differences that's insane that's simply
01:18:22
insane that doesn't not count as any
01:18:24
good reason to do that unless there's
01:18:25
actual abuse quick one if you guys have
01:18:29
heard me speak on this podcast before
01:18:30
about company culture and the secret to
01:18:31
building a world-class company you know
01:18:33
that everything starts with people which
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01:19:28
happier introverts or extroverts yes so
01:19:32
extroverts is the classic finding tons
01:19:34
of studies sign find that extroverts
01:19:36
have more positive affect they have
01:19:38
higher they tend to have higher mood but
01:19:40
introverts have special gifts they have
01:19:43
closer
01:19:44
relationships they have deeper emotional
01:19:47
connections to other people and the
01:19:48
result of that is that they have
01:19:50
long-term friendship and Marriage
01:19:53
Partners that sustain them in a way that
01:19:55
extroverts don't extroverts often get
01:19:58
can get really lonely because they are
01:20:00
you an extrovert it's such an
01:20:01
interesting question because you might
01:20:03
not be even though you're a mad
01:20:04
scientist I don't think I am do you get
01:20:05
when you're at a party do you find that
01:20:07
you get exhausted I looked at Jackie's
01:20:08
know me many many years five years I'm
01:20:10
an introvert I just want to be alone so
01:20:12
when you're at a party do you find that
01:20:13
it sucks energy out of you I don't go to
01:20:15
the party certainly your Baseline is
01:20:17
introversion but you have extroverted
01:20:19
characteristics because you're able to
01:20:20
do good entrepreneurs know how to be
01:20:22
extroverts when they need to be which is
01:20:25
important and you run a podcast if
01:20:26
you're a true introvert it's like I got
01:20:27
to meet Arthur Brooks what a pain no I
01:20:29
like deep conversations I don't like
01:20:30
small talk yeah yeah you do you have
01:20:32
close friends oh yeah the same five guys
01:20:34
i' I've known years that you've known
01:20:36
since College yeah basically no others
01:20:38
other than this slot here who I consider
01:20:39
friends but the same five that I've
01:20:41
known for 12 12 years they're real
01:20:43
friends not deal friends no they're real
01:20:44
friends they were there when I was
01:20:46
shoplifting pizzas to feed myself same
01:20:47
Five Guys so that's interesting and and
01:20:50
but so extroverts they tend to get more
01:20:53
shortterm happiness and introverts tend
01:20:55
to have more long-term happiness so what
01:20:57
you find is that extroverts they tend to
01:20:59
get more enjoyment and and introverts
01:21:01
tend to get more meaning metacognition
01:21:04
you used this word earlier on when we
01:21:05
were talking about happiness it sounds
01:21:06
like almost an antidote to unhappiness
01:21:08
in respects what is metacognition
01:21:10
explain this like I'm a 10-year-old yeah
01:21:11
okay so metacognition simply means
01:21:13
thinking about your thinking and taking
01:21:16
more time as you react to your emotions
01:21:19
that's what metacognition is all about
01:21:21
so theot are produced in the lyic system
01:21:24
of the brain an ancient part of the
01:21:26
brain you react to them and decide what
01:21:28
they mean in the prefrontal CeX the sea
01:21:31
Suite of your head that takes time those
01:21:34
are not the same place you need to
01:21:35
experience your emotions in your
01:21:38
conscious executive brain which is the
01:21:40
part the front the part of the front the
01:21:41
bumper of tissue right behind your
01:21:42
forehead so when your kids are little
01:21:44
when your kids are 10 and they're
01:21:46
freaking out about something you don't
01:21:48
say don't be so limic you say use your
01:21:52
word
01:21:53
what you're saying is be metacognitive
01:21:55
allow yourself to explain this thing
01:21:58
that you're feeling and in so doing
01:21:59
you're using your prefrontal cortex as
01:22:01
opposed to relying on the lyic tissue of
01:22:03
your brain so write it down would be an
01:22:04
example writing externally is phenomenal
01:22:07
classic case so you're anxious yeah
01:22:09
anxiety is unfocused fear that's what it
01:22:12
is fear was adapted in in the human
01:22:14
species so that to be episodic and
01:22:16
intense the way that fear is supposed to
01:22:18
work is that something happens it alarms
01:22:21
you it illuminates the igala of your
01:22:23
brain that sends a signal through the
01:22:24
hypothalamus to the pituitary gland
01:22:27
which then signals the adrenal gland
01:22:28
sitting above the kidneys to spit out
01:22:29
stress hormones this happens in 74
01:22:32
milliseconds of the the perception of a
01:22:35
threat in you know the occipital lobe of
01:22:38
your brain where you're you know your
01:22:39
visual cortex exists boom this thing
01:22:42
happens really really quick this is and
01:22:43
saved your life many many times
01:22:45
thousands of times you know because you
01:22:47
live in London and you can get run over
01:22:49
at any given second it's crazy well
01:22:51
actually because I'm looking the wrong
01:22:52
direction for oncoming traffic that's my
01:22:53
problem there so so that's how that's
01:22:56
how that works is the whole point so
01:22:58
fear is supposed to work that way very
01:23:00
episodic very occasional the problem in
01:23:03
Modern Life is that we have all of these
01:23:04
vague threats that are happening that
01:23:06
are kind of half Illuminating our our
01:23:10
amydala which is giving us a little drip
01:23:12
of cortisol into our brain all the time
01:23:14
and that's unfocused and freaking us out
01:23:16
so the way to actually solve that
01:23:18
problem metacognitive is say okay okay I
01:23:21
got to focus it take out a piece of
01:23:23
paper number one number one thing that
01:23:26
I'm afraid of right now that's actually
01:23:27
giving me this anxiety that's giving me
01:23:29
this discomfort write it down why is it
01:23:33
happening what's the worst thing that
01:23:35
can happen and what would I do if that
01:23:37
happened and you literally moving the
01:23:39
thing experience from the amydala which
01:23:42
is the emotional Center to the
01:23:43
prefrontal cortex which is The Logical
01:23:46
which is that's for your SE suite and
01:23:47
that should kill the anxiety it will it
01:23:49
greatly attenuate the anxiety it will
01:23:51
turn it into a logical kind of fear
01:23:54
that's the right reaction to these
01:23:56
threats and it will change your life so
01:23:59
if you do that if you're experiencing a
01:24:01
lot of
01:24:02
anxiety you know unfocused fear focus it
01:24:06
every day for 10 minutes write it down I
01:24:08
have a I have a I'm a very anxious
01:24:10
person I have a running list of the
01:24:12
things that I'm afraid of a running list
01:24:14
I have lots and lots of lists I keep
01:24:15
lots of lists because journaling is so
01:24:16
critically important I also have a
01:24:17
failure list what are you afraid of I'm
01:24:19
afraid of failure I'm afraid of failing
01:24:22
I'm a total striver from the very
01:24:24
beginning failing what's what does what
01:24:25
would failure look like I know that's
01:24:27
the thing it's an unfocused fear and so
01:24:29
when I write it down and I focus it I go
01:24:30
oh yeah it's true you know that's that's
01:24:33
the point so it's failure is a spectre
01:24:35
for Strivers it's a kind of a when you
01:24:38
look at it it goes away yeah yeah but
01:24:40
when you're not looking at it it's there
01:24:42
and part of the reason is because your
01:24:44
self-image is one of somebody who's
01:24:46
successful so you're self- objectifying
01:24:49
as a successful person you're success
01:24:50
addicted meaning the vental item of your
01:24:52
brain gets tapped every time somebody
01:24:54
says Steve you got another 7 million
01:24:57
downloads or something that is not
01:25:00
inherently meaningful in that particular
01:25:01
way because the metric is actually what
01:25:03
Taps your ventral stum again and again
01:25:04
and again and so then if that's going in
01:25:07
the wrong direction and you're not
01:25:08
making progress then that sort of feels
01:25:10
somehow not successful which means that
01:25:13
things are going in the wrong direction
01:25:15
and that's just like this
01:25:17
fantasm right it's like and so okay
01:25:20
focus it focus it look at it poof
01:25:22
right disappears it doesn't entirely
01:25:24
disappear it turns into what it really
01:25:26
is which is a mouse not a
01:25:28
lion oh your book is fantastic I mean we
01:25:30
could talk for for so long because
01:25:32
there's so much more in it there's some
01:25:33
of the unb unbelievable stats that I was
01:25:35
reading about around social media and
01:25:38
this one St about um a study showing
01:25:39
that teens who texted more often than
01:25:41
their peers experienced more depression
01:25:42
anxiety and relationship and po
01:25:43
relationships the other things about
01:25:45
laughter and that you can feel 35%
01:25:47
happier um using some humor therapy all
01:25:50
of these things gratitude all of these
01:25:51
things that we haven't haven't covered
01:25:53
but they're all in this fantastic
01:25:54
fantastic book which is so unbelievably
01:25:56
accessible for someone that as smart as
01:25:58
you Oprah had okay oh okay right okay
01:26:02
yeah and I thank you for that because
01:26:05
happiness is a complex thing and I think
01:26:06
there's an industry out there that are
01:26:08
trying to simplify it and put it down to
01:26:11
three steps to happiness or one this one
01:26:13
secret to happiness one weird trick
01:26:15
don't gra you know whatever but your
01:26:17
approach provides the nuance and the
01:26:19
complexity that the subject matter
01:26:20
deserves and I think that offers us a
01:26:22
towards being happier as you talk about
01:26:25
in the book um that's why I wrote it I
01:26:28
wrote it for you oh it actually reads
01:26:31
like you wrote it for me that's the kind
01:26:33
of but I imagine everyone that reads
01:26:34
it's is going to feel that way um I
01:26:36
highly recommend everybody goes and gets
01:26:37
this book ASAP it's a really really
01:26:39
beautiful book as well it's so beautiful
01:26:42
um we have a closing tradition on this
01:26:43
podcast where the last guest leaves a
01:26:44
question for the next guest not knowing
01:26:45
who they're leaving it
01:26:46
for what are we supposed to do about the
01:26:49
things that we cannot control what is
01:26:51
your opinion on this
01:26:53
the things that we can't control are
01:26:55
virtually all outside
01:26:58
ourselves we have to accommodate
01:27:00
ourselves to the fact that we live in a
01:27:02
world where there are many things that
01:27:04
we can't control and focus on the things
01:27:07
that we can how do we deal with things
01:27:09
that we can't control by refocusing our
01:27:11
attention on the parts of our life that
01:27:13
we actually can thus giving us agency
01:27:15
and giving us a sense of peace and
01:27:17
perspective about the truly
01:27:20
uncontrollable ala thank you so much so
01:27:22
wonderful to meet you you've energized
01:27:24
me this morning and we started pretty
01:27:26
early for me this is super early know
01:27:28
it's apprciate it I appreciate it so
01:27:30
much thank you Steve it's wonderful to
01:27:31
be with you I've admired you for such a
01:27:32
long time I get to meet you in person
01:27:33
it's been a joy that means the well to
01:27:35
me someone is uh profound and as smart
01:27:37
as you to say that to me means a ton so
01:27:39
thank you so much Arthur from the bottom
01:27:40
of my heart really really appreciate it
01:27:41
thank you you too thank
01:27:43
[Music]
01:27:49
you as you'll know if you've listened to
01:27:51
this podcast before I'm an investor in a
01:27:52
company called hu I'm on their board and
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they sponsor this podcast and I have a
01:27:56
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01:27:58
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01:28:00
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01:28:10
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01:28:36
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out do you need a podcast to listen to
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next we've discovered that people who
01:28:46
liked this episode also tend to
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absolutely love another recent episode
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we've done so I've linked to that
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you'll enjoy
01:29:01
[Music]
01:29:03
it
