00:00:00
I'm either gonna make this or get taken away on a stretch
00:00:06
it changed my life completely
00:00:12
how could you prepare for anything like that Tony Hawk began riding a skateboard when he was nine years old and when he turned
00:00:19
16 he was the best skateboarder in the whole wide world moving the outcast and the outcast
00:00:25
activity I got picked on I got bullied even when I turned Pro I would leave high school for a big skate event I'm
00:00:31
signing autographs and then I would come back and be a ghost in the hallways again I just wanted to see skateboarding get more popular but I got famous by
00:00:38
accident suddenly I was a chosen Ambassador I was making income I owned a house in my last year of high school so
00:00:44
I was doing talk shows and I was doing big appearances my video game was a big hit how much revenue a billion dollars
00:00:51
wow the trajectory just seemed like it was never going to end and then it dropped very quickly
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I was so hyper fixated on my skating I didn't really work on my Humanity I was
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a machine and I'd go and do the event and win the trophy go home it didn't allow me to be myself very much did you
00:01:10
lose people yeah made them feel like they weren't the priority and a lot of
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it was just being afraid of intimacy and I regret that I started getting burned down in competition
00:01:21
the term burnout is used a lot these days what did that experience teach you about what causes burnout it taught me
00:01:27
that before we get into this episode just wanted to say thank you first and
00:01:33
foremost for being part of this community the team here at the diver Co is now almost 30 people and that's
00:01:39
literally because you watch and you subscribe and you um leave comments and you like the videos that this Show's
00:01:45
been able to grow and it's the greatest honor of my life to sit here with these incredible people and just selfishly ask
00:01:51
them questions that I'm pondering over or worrying about in my life but this is just the beginning for the day of this year we've got big big plans to scale
00:01:57
this show and to every corner of the world and to to diversify Our Guest selection and that's enabled by you by a
00:02:04
simple thing that you guys do which is to watch so if there's one thing you could do to help this show and to help
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us continue to do what we do it's just to hit the Subscribe button if you like this show if you like what we do here if
00:02:15
you watch these episodes please just hit that subscribe button means the world let's get on with it
00:02:21
[Music] foreign [Music]
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not sure if you've ever listened to this podcast before but I'm quite predictable with how I start these conversations and I'll I'll be transparent in terms of my
00:02:37
rationale um when I read about a story like yours and I read about how much of anomaly you
00:02:42
were in many respects of your life I always ask the question why and how
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where did that begin where did that start and having you know read right back into your your
00:02:54
parents history and your history I saw signs of of that but
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seeing as you're here best place to ask you can you give me the context that you believe was pivotal
00:03:06
in shaping you to become the person that you are today I think early on
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I was I was obsessed when I first started skating I found something that spoke to me I
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found a community of people that were we were just a bunch of Misfits and outcasts that sort of
00:03:28
fit together somehow and I loved what
00:03:33
skateboarding brought to me in terms of my sense of identity my sense of self-confidence and the creative aspects
00:03:41
around it I just loved it and all I wanted to do was was it as much as possible
00:03:48
um and there was no there was no end goal there were no there was no fame or fortune in the
00:03:54
cards because no one had ever had that from skating even the top skaters so
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what was it it was just an obsession and um I wanted to do it as best I could
00:04:07
always even even when I reached the top of the ranks of competition I still want to get
00:04:13
better when you say obsessed um and the way you describe it almost
00:04:19
sounds like it was medicine yeah and in a lot of ways it was I mean I I was
00:04:24
a smaller kid um I got we used to call it picked on I got I got picked on a lot bullied and
00:04:32
um I didn't Excel that much in team sports I I just kind of was Middle Ground
00:04:38
um if that and then when I found skating every time I'd go skate I got better at
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it and it was incremental sometimes almost immeasurable but I knew that I was
00:04:50
getting I was each time I was improving and I couldn't say that about any of the
00:04:55
other sports I was doing I got I mean baseball basketball like yeah sure sometimes I'd score mostly I wouldn't but I never felt like oh I'm really
00:05:03
I'm really getting to a different level of this it was more like I did it because it was expected of me and every
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time I skated I got better every time I would go to the park I would learn some little new technique
00:05:17
that would lead me to something else what was that progression doing for you on a psychological level
00:05:23
it gave me a sense of purpose it gave me an outlet for my energy and
00:05:28
my frustrations and it gave my my parents some um much needed reprieve from my from
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uh my determination that's my that's my my mom put it uh in
00:05:44
her best way is that I I was I was difficult I was always very
00:05:49
thick-headed I wanted to do my things my way or I wanted to do on my terms and she said when I found skateboarding I
00:05:56
really found a a directive for that and um when her friends would say he's such
00:06:03
a nightmare she'd say he's just very determined Nancy that is right yep Frank announced
00:06:09
your parents what was what was your home life like with them
00:06:15
um it was pretty quiet I don't know I um my parents were
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older when I was born so it kind of felt like I was raised by grandparents
00:06:26
because my dad was 45 my mom was 43. by the time I was at an age where I was
00:06:34
being very active and doing things they were they were kind of in retirement mode
00:06:40
um so and and they I can't say they were
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I don't know they they weren't they weren't close
00:06:50
it was almost like they were just roommates and so that I I definitely
00:06:56
rubbed off on me in in a lot of ways but but it just felt like oh this is just a functional household that's not full of
00:07:02
love necessarily I'm the youngest of four
00:07:08
um I sometimes wonder whether sometimes the youngest child of the bunch because you were the youngest of three right
00:07:15
um the parents almost think that they've finished with parenting oh for sure in my case my my
00:07:22
older siblings were all my my brother is closest he's 13 years older than me
00:07:27
so absolutely they thought they were done raising children I was I was not planned and
00:07:32
and I think that my parents were kind of reaching a winter of their of their marriage
00:07:39
um even before that or just after I was born so it was a little icy and I think
00:07:44
that because they were from that generation they you know those Generations you just stay together no
00:07:50
matter what and so they did and and um it's not like it was it was terrible
00:07:56
like I said just it just wasn't that warm I can also relate to not being
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necessarily planned was there ever a were you ever cognizant of that is it like were you ever aware that has did
00:08:10
that ever have an effect on your psyche that you weren't planned at all no I never thought about that
00:08:17
I guess I never I I was never that deep in my introspection to to worry or
00:08:26
concern myself with that fact I just knew that I wanted to go skate you were really um really intelligent kid I read
00:08:32
that your IQ was like 144 or something yeah maybe at one time
00:08:38
which is which is surprising typically I think of um a child that has that void of Independence and how which it sounds
00:08:45
like you had of not necessarily being the best academically or in terms of smarts especially if they're distracted
00:08:51
or preoccupied with something like sports like skateboarding one would think that Academia intelligence might
00:08:57
fall by the wayside um no I always relied on that I I was in
00:09:03
the um in the gifted classes uh growing up and so I was with other kids that
00:09:10
that were of that same elk and um so I always thought that that my path
00:09:15
would be more Academia based I you know I I thought that I would be
00:09:21
I actually thought it was gonna be a math teacher because I excelled in math and and I liked helping my friends with it so I thought oh that that is the
00:09:29
maybe that's my my trajectory and then when I found skating it wasn't that my academics fell
00:09:37
by the wayside but it was more that oh maybe I have something else here and um it really wasn't until I was in
00:09:44
high school that I realized more of the potential of that I feel like skating these days is um still is really cool
00:09:51
now but having read back through your story it seems like it wasn't as it was not not at all in fact in my early high
00:09:57
school days I had to hide my I had to I chose to hide my skateboard in the bushes behind the school
00:10:05
um because I use it as transportation and because I would get hassled carrying it around school
00:10:11
um you know they would they would say not so nice things as I would walk stroll by with my skateboard even though
00:10:17
I was starting to find some sense of success with it I I was actually at that
00:10:23
point uh sponsored I had a company that was giving me boards that was sending me
00:10:28
to events and even when I turned Pro which meant that I was had my own skateboard model it was just not cool
00:10:37
so it was cool in certain sex like I would I would leave High School I would go to
00:10:43
for instance Houston for a big skate event and there's all kinds of skaters
00:10:48
there I'm signing autographs taking photos and then I would come back from that weekend and maybe even have won
00:10:54
some some money to go to high school and be a ghost in the hallways again that's the kind of dichotomy I was
00:11:01
living you talked about how the progress was like a motivating a driving factor that you know getting incrementally better
00:11:07
every time you did it outside of the technical aspect of skateboarding what
00:11:12
was the um the value for you outside of like doing the tricks and stuff what what what was like filling
00:11:19
you up uh the the culture the community of it I loved everything about it the I
00:11:24
love the attitude the DIY aspect the the Renegade um attitude that you would you have to
00:11:31
hop fences you know to go skate an empty swimming pool or to a to go skate a a
00:11:37
schoolyard and and it was just so there was so much
00:11:43
art and creativity involved it was like any skater it's more most likely they're
00:11:48
gonna play also play music or they're also going to be artists or or do other
00:11:53
interesting things and so there was a soundtrack to it it was it was embedded in in punk music because
00:12:00
that was the same sort of vibe and attitude that we had and
00:12:05
um it was just more like oh this is this is my scene this is this is I have the sense of belonging here and I don't care
00:12:12
if I don't fit in with my classmates or my peers
00:12:17
so you started you got your first hand-me-down board at eight years old uh yeah like nine or ten yeah from your
00:12:24
brother from my brother yeah and by 12 your
00:12:30
your sponsored um by a sponsored yeah which which basically meant that I got free skateboards once in a while it was
00:12:36
right it wasn't some there was no contractor it wasn't like a million okay no and then at 14
00:12:43
um I turned Pro but all that really meant was that I moved up a category in competition
00:12:50
so there was there was sponsored amateur and then there was professional and
00:12:55
to be professional just meant that you were competing for a 100 first place
00:13:01
prize money well at what point did you realize that you were good comparatively
00:13:08
um I think it was it would have been later on in my pro
00:13:13
career when I started to figure out how to do these what they called
00:13:19
they used to call them circus tricks but I like to think they were more avant-garde and I would do these these sort of
00:13:26
unique moves that I created but I I started to learn how to do them more in
00:13:31
the air like at an impressive height and I think it was around probably more rounds
00:13:38
16 age 16 when I started to realize like oh I can do these things at Heights that is reserved for very few
00:13:47
um and I I can do them on other terrain besides just my familiar home park
00:13:53
um and I guess that's probably the point where I felt like I I have something that is more valid than just
00:14:01
a niche style of skating that only happens in at my hometown Park
00:14:07
you know when you you think about why you were able to do that like why you were incrementally better or you know
00:14:13
significantly better than your peer group have you ever figured out in terms of what they call Talent why that is is
00:14:20
it smart is it physical attributes um I think it was that
00:14:26
I I wasn't afraid to step out of my comfort zone and I also wasn't afraid to get hurt
00:14:33
along the way and I accepted that as part of the process and I can't say that very many people
00:14:39
did that I mean definitely definitely my peer group the ones that were skating at the time they knew what it took to to
00:14:45
get that far and they were willing to take the hits for it but also I like to explore other techniques that weren't
00:14:53
comfortable or or maybe that I even thought were cool because I wanted to learn everything
00:14:58
and so I would I would start I would go off on these tangents of trying certain tricks or a board manipulation and then
00:15:06
lean into that and do every single variation of that and then move on to something else and then all of that
00:15:12
started to combine into this trick repertoire that I that I had that was that was pretty deep
00:15:19
you know they say when you if you want to master something you've got to do 10 000 hours yeah sounds like you did a lot
00:15:25
of hours at that at that very I mean at some point I was probably doing just one trick ten thousand times
00:15:30
[Laughter] we say all of this you know you said later in my pro career and then you said
00:15:36
you were 16. yeah well my I've had a pretty lengthy pro career but I would say that around
00:15:42
age 16 is when I started to come into my own and and was able to shut down any of
00:15:51
the of the pushback or the haters so to speak because they were all saying oh
00:15:57
he's only good at his home park or he's only you know he only does these these goofy little tricks and at some point it was like you can't really deny that I'm
00:16:04
doing these tricks in the most difficult circumstances and consistently and so
00:16:11
I had this this run of success in my late teens that was I thought
00:16:18
unparalleled I mean in terms of suddenly I was I was making income I owned a
00:16:23
house when I was still in my last year of high school from my earnings and everything's the trajectory just
00:16:31
seemed like it was it was never going to end and then it it dropped very quickly in the early 90s
00:16:39
and then I had a good three or four years were very slow
00:16:44
um and and touch and go in terms of trying to make a living provide for a
00:16:49
family um and then things kind of came back around in the late 90s so when I say
00:16:55
early in my or you know late in my career there's a few stages of that in that first stage it's from 16 to uh
00:17:03
about 20 23 23 yeah and at that point I read that by 16 years old you were the
00:17:09
best in the world you were widely right uh I I had why I was ranked number one for a while yeah
00:17:16
um and It's Tricky though I mean I I don't like I don't like saying that just because skating is is subjective and
00:17:23
it's apples to oranges so who's the best that's all in the guys the beholder I did well in competition I
00:17:29
I got good scores and I had a good run I mean I think you're slightly
00:17:34
underplaying that because I you know I was reading through some stats and I read that 16 you were widely regarded as
00:17:40
the best skateboarder in the world and by 25 you'd won 73 of the 103 professional contact contests you'd
00:17:46
entered finishing in second place a further 19 times
00:17:52
which is for me pretty freakish I yeah I mean like I said I had a good run but also it's a specific style so I was
00:17:59
skating uh pools and half pipes um and then in the early 90s Street
00:18:05
skating came into its own and what you see today with people jumping downstairs
00:18:10
on handrails Ledges and things like that that was just starting to Blossom and I realized pretty early on that that
00:18:17
was not my strength and that my um ratio of success to injury was much
00:18:25
higher doing that so I I kind of I kind of gave it up I was in it for a while I
00:18:30
was skating some of the competitions and I was doing a lot of Tours and things and then at one point I was driving home
00:18:37
from a tour um I had sprained one ankle almost to
00:18:42
the point of breaking it but somehow didn't and then in the process of
00:18:47
nursing that one I was still skating because we were on tour I I rolled the other ankle trying to save this ankle
00:18:53
and then I'm driving home with these with these uh with ice on both ankles
00:18:59
with a car full of of skaters and in that moment I thought I can't keep doing
00:19:06
it this way like this this is not sustainable I'm not going to be able to be a pro skater much longer if I'm if I
00:19:11
think I'm gonna do this type of skating and so I'm gonna stick with more of the half pipe which
00:19:17
which is what I know even though that wasn't the popular way of skating I just knew that if I wanted to keep skating
00:19:24
into my adult life I was gonna have to stick with with my expertise
00:19:30
and I'm right in thinking from what you've said there that your skating career started to really take off you
00:19:35
know 15 16 kind of Peaks at one point at around that 23ish I would say around 21
00:19:42
22 is when it started to Peak yeah and at what point in that Journey did you think I'm gonna Escape professionally
00:19:47
perform the rest of my life was there a point where you go this is a job now you never no um in fact when I was uh 24 is
00:19:56
when I started my company birdhouse and I honestly thought starting a company was my way of of sort of bowing out of
00:20:04
the spotlight and not being a so-called professional skater because there was there were very there was very little
00:20:10
opportunity for me as a half pipe or vert skater to be doing anything and I
00:20:16
was trying to nurture a group of skaters that were mostly Street and trying to give them
00:20:22
New Opportunities and trying to uh have them promote our company as well so
00:20:27
I thought that I was curating a team and I was going to be sort of the ringleader of it but not be considered a pro myself
00:20:35
I never quit skating though that was that was just in my blood and so at some point
00:20:41
a few years later things start to pick up again the X Games happened
00:20:46
um they had a they had a half pipe contest and I was still on top of my game so after that I started to compete a lot
00:20:55
more because the interest grew and then I was I was winning a lot of events it's
00:21:00
we we don't often think it's possible for a sport to kind of experience a downturn right commercial downturn like
00:21:06
thinking about the big Sports of today the NBA basketball whatever it be the thought that it could kind of have an
00:21:11
economic downturn and put the athletes out of business for a while is kind of inconceivable for me so I mean most of
00:21:18
most of my peers quit in the 1990s because yeah or or quit or not
00:21:24
I can't say quit most of them found jobs because so what what happened in the skating industry the commercial side of
00:21:31
the business there was a few things I think that skating had gone through Cycles in the
00:21:37
past in the late 70s skating was the new fad it was like the if for especially in
00:21:43
the US was like the yo-yo and it's the new toy and it's a transportation and
00:21:48
you can do all these things and then and then that that fad kind of faded out and
00:21:53
then in the 80s it became this thing because we were skating the empty pools and there was this attitude and the music and the hairdos and the graphics
00:22:00
and then it and Back to the Future and so that was another spike in popularity
00:22:06
and a lot of skate parks were opening in those days and I think in the late 80s
00:22:11
the liability became too much for these Escape facilities and they just started closing very quickly I mean there was
00:22:18
just a toppling of of skate parks through I would say 89 to 91 and then
00:22:24
there was no place to do it because there were no public parks these all these facilities are private there were
00:22:31
a few but they were not good it um and so all these private Parks were a closing shop and then we had the skaters
00:22:37
had nowhere to go so that's when skating took to the underground and became more
00:22:44
street-centric your dad was working in the industry as well he was in the in the 80s yeah he he
00:22:52
helped to form the national skateboard Association which sanctioned most of the events through those years
00:22:58
how did how did he get into skateboarding he saw he saw me and and he saw how much
00:23:05
I loved it and he saw a very a serious lack of organization
00:23:11
um and he was always very supportive of his kids I mean my brother was a surfer he would drive him to the beach at dawn
00:23:18
to to get the good ways my my sister was in a band he would he would be the
00:23:24
Roadie for the band and drive all their gear to the gigs so when I started skating he was all in on supporting it
00:23:31
but he saw that it was just sort of chaos there were there was very little organization there were very few events
00:23:37
and he saw a group of kids like me that loved it and had very little support
00:23:42
it's been quite entrepreneurial about that about your dad founding them yeah I don't I don't he never did it he never
00:23:48
really got paid so you know to think that it was entrepreneurial it was it was more altruistic than anything
00:23:56
did that create a conflict of interest if or like it was hard yeah it was absolutely difficult for me in those
00:24:01
years because I was doing well and then there was uh there were uh
00:24:09
claims of nepotism um there was a lot of animosity and it
00:24:15
was uncomfortable for me because my dad was always there and I was doing well so it would be one thing if I wasn't
00:24:20
skating that well if I was just sort of mid-range um but I think that all of that just
00:24:27
drove me to get better and prove everyone wrong I mean I I'd like to say that
00:24:32
I didn't I didn't enjoy it but it definitely lit a fire
00:24:38
it's interesting when when people attack you in such a way or they try and discredit you especially when you're of
00:24:43
course only when you're doing well it can evoke a series of responses in
00:24:48
you yeah I I was under a lot of pressure and a lot of accusations like that and
00:24:55
um I just kind of put my head down and just focused on my skating until
00:25:01
until I shut him up um but even then it was it was always tricky you know it was
00:25:07
like that then my dad he got out of it um and not long after that he got sick and passed away in lung cancer
00:25:14
um but then the X Games came around and like I said I was still on top of my game and
00:25:20
then I was the I was sort of the one they were focusing on because my name had resonated from the previous
00:25:27
generation and then I was I was doing well in competition so then the other skaters were accusing me of hogging the
00:25:34
spotlight I I'm I'm not choosing the programming here and so that was tricky too but I I think
00:25:41
I learned so much from my early days of of sort of being the outcast and the outcast activity that that it you
00:25:48
weren't really gonna I I had sort of built up a resilience to all that but it's still difficult right like the
00:25:54
outcast and the outcast activity oh yeah I felt very isolated yep
00:26:00
in real that's the word isolated but in real terms what does that look like for a young man who's doing something that
00:26:06
he loved he's got really [ __ ] good at it so now there's they're pointing the camera at him there's all this
00:26:11
commercial pressure what impact does that have on on the love for it
00:26:17
well luckily I had been doing it for so long at that point and had seen it come
00:26:22
and go that I was excited in the sense that
00:26:28
skateboarding was going to get a new A Renewed interest and if I was the conduit to that then
00:26:36
I'll accept it I wasn't trying to get all the glory I just wanted to see
00:26:41
skateboarding be more accessible and get more popular and so at some point
00:26:48
I don't want to say that anyone appointed me but but it was definitely I was this chosen ambassador
00:26:55
to skateboarding um because I could I could do interviews and I could speak on behalf of skating
00:27:02
at its core but also to a mainstream audience to make them understand why
00:27:07
skating could be valid or why it would be a positive influence on their kids the one of the reasons you gave for why
00:27:14
you love skateboarding and why it filled you up originally was because of that camaraderie though and isolation seems
00:27:19
to be kind of the opposite of um I I was isolated in the sense that the the
00:27:25
hardcore skaters the older generation didn't support me didn't want anything
00:27:30
to do with me but I did have my crew I mean it wasn't completely isolated it was I had a few friends that we all had
00:27:36
the same sense of of values and the same sort of directives for skating so
00:27:42
um I would bounce ideas off of them and we would come up with with tricks together sometimes sometimes it was just something that they were asking me to do
00:27:50
um but but that sent some camaraderie is what I'm talking about um but it was very it was a very limited
00:27:57
crew and yeah I mean I was I chose to do this Outcast activity as a kid already
00:28:03
separating me from my classmates my peers kids my age they're like skateboarding's so lame why are you
00:28:09
doing that then I choose a skateboard my style of skateboarding is not cool it's
00:28:14
considered a circus like I'm just a circus freak doing these little uh baton Twirls with my skateboard
00:28:22
so then I'm cast aside from the skateboarding community and that that's what became
00:28:29
that became isolating but that all that stuff just would fuel me
00:28:35
to to get better and I I didn't it's not like I'm thankful for it but I
00:28:41
accepted it and I went out to prove myself I am I I sat with a motivation
00:28:48
psychologist called Daniel pink and he was telling me one of the they did these studies on people in terms of trying to
00:28:53
figure out how their motivation fluctuates and he found that when people get paid for something that was once a
00:28:58
hobby their love and motivation for it declines which I thought was really paradoxical I wouldn't expect when you
00:29:04
get paid to do a hobby you'd expect motivation to increase I agree with that except that
00:29:10
when I got into skateboarding no one was getting paid no no one was getting accolades no one
00:29:17
was getting attention and so I never aspired to that and what I see now is I see I do see kids that
00:29:26
get into skateboarding with the notion that they will get rich or famous or and or famous
00:29:32
and if they get any sense of fame or Fortune they lose their motivation so I agree with you in that sense but if
00:29:38
you're getting into a an activity a sport an art form or whatever that has not been established and it's not there
00:29:46
there's no clear path to success I feel like your motivation is always just to get better at it
00:29:51
and and the money and and the fam and everything that's all incidental to just being able
00:29:56
to keep doing it did you did you love for ever fluctuate um only when
00:30:03
I started getting burned out in competition um sometime around 1988 89 uh I was
00:30:11
doing really well in the events and it started to become repetitive for
00:30:17
me I would go to an event I'd have to I'd have to hide new tricks from my my
00:30:24
competitors and from the judges because at some point the judges were giving me
00:30:30
scores based on what they thought I could do not compared to everyone else in the event but just what they thought
00:30:35
I was capable of so if I came to an event with some new tricks and they saw me doing those new tricks in practice
00:30:40
and I didn't do them in my competition runs I would get marked down
00:30:46
based on what they thought you know based on judging me against myself
00:30:52
and that was fine like I accepted all that but it was more that that it got repetitive it started to get
00:31:00
it started to suck the fun out of it because I was just this machine like this competitive machine and my
00:31:05
competitors who I thought were my friends who I still do were very much
00:31:11
under the impression that oh well Tony's just gonna win so we're hoping for second and they would tell me that
00:31:17
and they thought that that was a compliment to me to me it was just it was crushing because it just meant that
00:31:22
that somehow they were separating me from the pack and the the crew that I
00:31:27
loved like the I I love the the camaraderie of the team and and the camaraderie of all the skaters and it
00:31:33
was like they're just pushing me out from that because they think that I'm on a different level or playing or whatever it was and
00:31:40
and I'd as much as you you think that's a compliment it wasn't the term burnout is used a lot these
00:31:47
days um people use it in in their jobs in works and in hobbies and such what what
00:31:53
um what did that experience teach you about what causes burnout
00:31:59
um well it it taught me that even if you're
00:32:04
doing what you love it's not always going to be enjoyable um because of the pressure of success
00:32:12
because of the self-imposed pressure that you put um but what it did teach me was the value
00:32:21
of letting go and when I let go of that even as hard
00:32:27
as it was because my my sponsors were saying if you quit competing you're out
00:32:32
there was no other path to success in skateboarding you couldn't make a living on YouTube on social media you know a
00:32:40
reality show whatever it was it was just your competition rankings that was it that's what you're that's what your
00:32:45
success was and they they told me you know what are you gonna do how do you expect to make a living and I was like I
00:32:51
don't know but I can't keep going this direction and what happened was when I was when I was removed from it
00:32:57
I started to appreciate the process of learning new tricks more
00:33:02
I started to appreciate the idea that I could be more creative and take more
00:33:08
chances and at some point I I missed competing but I had to sort of discover
00:33:14
that Within Myself on my own terms and then when I came back to competing
00:33:21
I let go of the idea of perfection I let go of the idea that I had to do the best
00:33:27
every single time and I took way more chances and sometimes it didn't work sometimes I didn't make the finals but
00:33:33
when I did make the finals I was doing it on a level that I was proud of I wasn't
00:33:39
I wasn't phoning it in so to speak I wasn't being conservative with with my my Approach
00:33:45
and that became much more fun it was more risky but when it would work
00:33:52
it was something that I was much more proud of is there is there is there a um I
00:33:58
sounded a lot to me like you're you built this identity because you've been so successful and you almost had to kind of decouple from that identity which
00:34:05
always feels like a big risk to people in their jobs yeah it was but but uh it was either that or quit quit altogether
00:34:13
because it was really Weighing on me it was real it was very difficult when you say very difficult what does
00:34:19
that mean in in Practical terms you mean like sleepless nights or
00:34:24
yeah and and dreading events
00:34:30
going going to an event and and dreading it I mean it's it's almost like Pink Floyd The Wall it's just I was building
00:34:36
a wall around everyone around myself and and Performing was just obligatory
00:34:45
because everyone expected me to do it everyone expected me to do well to to win the event whatever it was and there
00:34:52
was no celebration in that there was no there was nothing that that made me feel
00:35:02
elated it was just it was I was a machine and I'd go and do the event and
00:35:07
and win the trophy get the prize money and go home and then go skate and go try to learn
00:35:13
new tricks that was the fun part but really what I was doing was just
00:35:19
trying to prepare for the next event which is probably another in a week or two away
00:35:25
is um it's quite surprising but it's a story that I've heard over and over again this idea that your success almost
00:35:31
disconnected you from from some it disconnected you from others and probably from yourself in many respects and I think I think about
00:35:38
this a lot how when you become successful you can you need to be careful that you don't get disconnected along the way there's lots of Temptation
00:35:44
with talent to disconnect yourself um whether you're a lawyer and you've just been good at being a lawyer and you
00:35:50
end up 20 15 years down the line and you go what the [ __ ] am I doing here and who have I become or you're a pro
00:35:56
skateboarder and you kind of drift away from from the essence of what makes us feel
00:36:01
connected oh for sure and I saw I saw plenty of my peers I think one one thing that saved
00:36:09
me is that I loved the skating so much that I saw my peers get distracted with
00:36:15
partying with the excess and they would start to
00:36:21
lose their motivation and their and their skill sets and I recognized that very early on and thought I don't want
00:36:28
to go down that road because the skating is too important to me this I want to keep performing at a top level
00:36:34
um and for sure I had my I I had my distractions through my through my life
00:36:40
and and through my adult my adult years but um but skating was always such a high
00:36:46
priority that that I never lost that did you have to you talked about you've
00:36:52
seen some of your friends at that time go down the wrong path because because of Temptations yeah did you ever notice
00:36:57
yourself drifting down that path um yeah I think it was more the when I
00:37:03
got caught up in the fame of it all in um more in the late 90s early 2000s when
00:37:10
my video game was a big hit and suddenly I was not just doing skate events I was
00:37:16
doing talk shows and I was doing big appearances and and getting caught up in
00:37:22
that level of Fame is very disorienting and I could see myself
00:37:28
I could see myself falling into that where it's like well I'm now I'm a celebrity
00:37:34
and now I will go to the Red Carpet Events and do the you know and the clubs
00:37:40
and all that and I I definitely indulged a bit in that but at some point
00:37:45
recognize that this is just not what I want to be doing and this is not
00:37:52
this is not not as fun as skating and and these are not the people I
00:37:58
really identify with I mean a lot of the people that I saw through those years especially at the big events and stuff they they all they
00:38:04
really wanted was to be famous and at some point I I got famous by accident
00:38:10
and it's not necessarily what I wanted and at some point I took inventory of that and I realized that I don't really
00:38:17
care you know what I mean like I don't I don't care if I don't get into this VIP
00:38:22
thing whatever it is like take it or leave it
00:38:27
I am when I got a little bit of money I think I ha my insecurities meant that I
00:38:33
had to have certain beliefs fail me before I learned them so I was the kid that went to like got a little bit of money started going to the nightclubs
00:38:39
buying all the champagne leaves you feeling fairly Hollow after a while if you're paying attention absolutely yeah I mean that's the thing
00:38:46
is I just felt especially in through those years when I was going through the the fire of of
00:38:52
celebrity culture I never felt fulfilled and you'd wake up in the morning it's like what what was
00:38:59
that what good and also it was it was distracting me from my own kids and I
00:39:05
think that that's really what what made me want to make a positive change in my life is that I felt like I was not I was
00:39:14
not told I was there but I wasn't really available emotionally to my children
00:39:19
um as much as I could be because I was so distracted with all this other noise and um I I pulled it around I mean I was
00:39:25
able to get back get be more connected
00:39:31
um just be part of what they were doing even on a more basic level and that to
00:39:37
me is way more fulfilling it is I mean that's just you know I could I could wax poetic but it I do feel like
00:39:44
I I feel so much more confident and fulfilled and excited
00:39:52
about all those things to see my kids um to see my kids thrive
00:39:58
than to care about getting invited to the Oscars uh
00:40:03
sometimes in my life anyway my partner's been the person to point that out before I've noticed it in myself so my
00:40:10
girlfriend will notice that I may be losing my way a little bit in terms of priorities and it'll require her
00:40:15
feedback to tell me that I'm losing my way a little bit for me to really notice it in myself do you
00:40:21
resonate with that at all um I I would say yes if you were asking me
00:40:28
five ten years ago but now I do see it I see it myself it's I'm I'm much more
00:40:35
cognizant of it in my own choices and
00:40:40
it is wild I mean I never imagined that I'd be a pro skater of past 20 honestly because when you were
00:40:48
when you were my when you were a kid skating in my era all the once you reach
00:40:54
an age of responsibility you had to quit because no one could make it wasn't anyone's job right so to be skating in
00:41:01
my 20s and then into my 30s was wild it was I mean I was in Uncharted Territory but I was still getting better at it and
00:41:07
then when I reached my 40s it was like really still you guys still think this is okay for me to do and not that
00:41:15
I was looking for that in that kind of approval but it was kind of a surprise and also I
00:41:20
kept getting better at it in those years and then to be doing it in my 50s is just like
00:41:26
a a lucid dream it's crazy that um it's funny I kind of went through the
00:41:31
fire it was like when I was a kid it was like oh you're pretty good for your age and then when I got in my 30s and 40s
00:41:37
like you still skate like haven't you grown out of it and now when I'm in my 50s it's like hey you're pretty good for
00:41:43
your age when was your um when do you if you look
00:41:48
back on your years of in terms of technical ability when was your professional Peak or is it now
00:41:54
oh uh I think it was in my probably in my mid to late 30s and early
00:42:02
40s because that's when I was still doing all of my high impact high risk moves
00:42:08
but combined with highly technical moves so I kind of had I had the the gamut of
00:42:16
of of the skating in terms of being able to do the big stuff
00:42:24
um the dangerous stuff and also the very the very technical stuff and so as I've
00:42:29
moved into my Twilight years I don't know what you call this but I've learned
00:42:35
to to focus more on the technical because it's it's more low impact and it keeps me keeps me healthy for the most
00:42:42
part I mean I am I am nursing uh I'm still recovering from a broken femur
00:42:47
last year but even that has taught me that I still love doing this and I still love
00:42:53
it even if I'm not going to be at the the top of the game or or if I'm
00:42:59
even gonna be on video or or doing it in front of
00:43:04
people I still want to do it um and I still love it but like I said I've I've sort of
00:43:11
focused my energy more into the technical moves and and I would say the tricks that I was learning before I got
00:43:18
hurt were more appreciated by skaters themselves they weren't going to move the needle on X Games or anything
00:43:25
to get to your level in any industry if you were advising a kid that's maybe an
00:43:31
artist a DJ whatever when you look back on what it takes to get there what are the like core components of that level
00:43:38
of Mastery and success and like do that you must have sometimes think like like why me
00:43:43
because you know living such an anomalous life and becoming number one in anything I think
00:43:48
I've seen it over and over again where people start to ask themselves the question like an existential question like
00:43:54
uh sure yeah I every day but um I think to to answer your question
00:44:01
the focus it takes is is pretty intense to get to do especially what I do
00:44:08
um for so many years and also I think that the ability to
00:44:16
to to listen and to take cues or inspiration from others around you in
00:44:23
terms of inspiring or influencing what you do and I don't mean like I'm not saying
00:44:28
like borrowing or stealing Styles or anything I'm talking about just being open to oh that's that's a new way to do
00:44:36
it and and even collaborating with people what if we tried this or maybe you did that and and
00:44:44
um not just living in your own in your own bubble um because some people tend to do that
00:44:49
they they have their way they have they have they found what how they succeed how they keep moving forward and they
00:44:56
stay in that lane they stay in that bubble and sometimes that works but for the most part you can only go so far
00:45:01
with it and you've got to start to sort of Branch out and see what else is there
00:45:06
in terms of your chosen activity sport art whatever it is
00:45:13
um and I I love that idea that I'm getting out of my comfort zone and trying something weird and it's
00:45:20
probably not going to work right away and it's probably going to be super ugly when I finally do it but I'm gonna get to a point where it's more natural
00:45:27
do you what's the balance between learning the rules of the trade I how
00:45:33
it's already been done and learning to do it your way I always think this to
00:45:38
become great you need to like be the best at how it's done now or do you need to like add a little sprinkle of yourself well I luckily skating is so
00:45:46
subjective that adding your own Flair to it is always
00:45:51
encouraged and so for instance there's some tricks
00:45:57
basic tricks that you know 80 of professional skaters can
00:46:04
do this one trick but if you take a picture of one of them and put it on Silhouette I can tell you who it is
00:46:10
because everyone has their own style of it and what makes for a good style
00:46:16
subjectively it's I'd say it's sort of the flow of the move from start to
00:46:22
finish including when you're before you even leave the ground
00:46:28
or the or the ramp or whatever it is you know that you make it look like one one
00:46:33
fluid motion and that you can twist it torque it a little differently
00:46:40
and then someone else but stay in control that's what it's about I it's it it's
00:46:46
really hard to convey and some of that has to be
00:46:52
like you know Talent I'm struggling with the word talent but some of it uh nature of a
00:46:58
nurture yeah sure everyone has their own different body types and their own thing but but you
00:47:04
can see influences like for instance um we haven't we have this uh girl on our
00:47:11
team Rhys Nelson she's very young but she skates for ramps and you can tell
00:47:17
who she skates with by her trick selection because she's influenced by the the
00:47:23
certain skaters that she's with and and some of them have very specific moves
00:47:29
that that are associated with them and like she just learned from those
00:47:34
slides all right I'm just I'm gonna go down into the weeds for you show their Kip knob slides which is a signature
00:47:40
move of a skater named Colin McKay and I and I literally said have you been skating with Colin she said yeah he
00:47:45
comes here in the morning sometimes and skates with me it's like there it is interesting
00:47:52
when I when you speak to Surfers they talk about how surfing's like a metaphor for life and they like Wax lyrical about you know
00:47:58
what that metaphor is is skating a metaphor for Life uh it can be sure I I
00:48:04
think the the value of not giving up the value of believing in yourself and the value of
00:48:12
of working through your own challenges I think that's probably the the biggest
00:48:18
metaphor and for me um what I learned from it is also the value of taking risks
00:48:25
you know in the greater sense uh of becoming a businessman
00:48:30
I wasn't afraid to take risk skating I'm not afraid to take risks in business
00:48:37
the value of not giving up and taking risks I had you spent 12 years trying to master one particular trick yes called
00:48:43
the 900 which I think I did on the on the video game back in the day when I was when I was younger which is like a
00:48:49
two and a half two and a half spin yeah two and a half spin trick and it took you you tried for 12 years
00:48:55
off and on yes um from the first time I tried it had anyone done it before you no
00:49:02
um yeah that was a battle um so I learned seven twenties in 1985.
00:49:09
and the next stage of progression for that in terms of spinning and for skating would be 900 the the
00:49:18
what makes it so much more difficult is that you're blind to your Landing Zone
00:49:24
twice when you do a 900. when you do a 540 or even a 720 you're only blind to
00:49:29
your Landing Zone once and when you pass it twice it's very
00:49:35
hard to spot where you should be or to even know uh spatially where you are so
00:49:41
it took me the first probably five years of attempts just to figure out where I was in the air and when I say five years
00:49:48
I'm not talking about like every day it was more I would I would get fired up I'd had a good session or I was skating
00:49:54
a really good ramp and then I would try a couple and they always ended in some
00:49:59
sort of injury you know it was very hard to get out of it safely um I broke my rib one time when I really
00:50:06
thought I had it but once I figured out that spinning then I started to explore okay how do I
00:50:12
get the landing and that's when I started actually pursuing it I would say
00:50:18
more in like the years of 94 to 96 I was actively trying it regularly and when I
00:50:23
finally thought that I had it I put it down and then I I broke my rib because I
00:50:29
was leaning too far forward and in that moment I kind of gave up on it
00:50:36
that was in 96. because I thought I had all the pieces to it I I had
00:50:43
every element I had in my head I I had it was the it was the right take off it
00:50:49
was right setup is the right Spin and apparently I can't figure out how to how to land it properly so fast forward to
00:50:56
1999 um they're having a best trick event at the X Games and halfway into the event I
00:51:04
did my best trick which I had planned that I had only done once before and it was a variation of a
00:51:11
720 it was it was a very old 720. so I did that trick and then I had 10 minutes left of this event
00:51:19
I don't know where else to go from there except try what the next trick that I would like to do which is a 900
00:51:25
um and when I started trying it I'd say the first few attempts I just
00:51:31
did for the crowd it was more like this is this is my next state or this is what's
00:51:36
next maybe it's not for me but you know this is what I would like to see done
00:51:41
and then somewhere around my fourth or fifth try I realized that I'm always getting the right amount of
00:51:48
speed my my snap is good the snap is the take off when you actually leave the the top of the ramp and grab your board
00:51:54
because a lot of times the snap is if that's off it's tragic my snap was good I can see the landing
00:52:01
Zone and I thought you know what if I'm ever going to try to land this again it'll be tonight and if I break a rib so what like I'm
00:52:11
either gonna make this or get taken away on a stretcher those are the only two outcomes
00:52:16
um and then when I did finally try to make it somewhere around the I don't know ninth or tenth attempt
00:52:23
I fell forward again but I didn't get hurt and something
00:52:30
there was something clicked in my head that said why not shift your weight to your back
00:52:37
foot during the spin and then try to land it and for some
00:52:42
reason I never had I never had that Clarity because when I would go to try to make it I'd get hurt
00:52:48
and I'd have to go home so in this particular instance I didn't get hurt so I thought okay what if I
00:52:55
shift my weight towards the back and then I shift my weight towards the back and I fell backwards and that was the
00:53:01
epiphany because all I have to do is split the difference
00:53:07
and then I made the next one all they have to do is put the difference I mean so muggle like me you
00:53:12
make it sound easy what was that moment like it was just a big relief I mean it was
00:53:18
it was it was definitely a highlight of my skate career of my of my
00:53:23
um competitive career but for me it was just this weight lifted from me because
00:53:28
it had always sort of hung on me that oh 900 it's got to be
00:53:34
possible and there were a few of us chasing it there were other skaters that were getting pretty close to it too
00:53:39
um but no one had figured out how to ride away once you've done it once was it easy to
00:53:46
repeat easier to repeat yeah it took a while for me to do a second one and then after I did my second one then
00:53:52
I could do it pretty regularly and at this time you've got this deal with Activision bubbling bubbling away
00:53:58
at that time we had been working on a video game for about a year and a half
00:54:04
so there was definitely a crazy Synergy perfect storm in that moment because I
00:54:11
did that trick that Drew a lot of attention to obviously me but uh but not just me but skateboarding in general and
00:54:18
the X Games and then that was in June and then we released uh
00:54:23
what became Tony oxpro skater in September wow and I was watching the video of you
00:54:28
saying that you you called the guy Activision to ask him to include the 900 trick it never stopped yeah I I emailed
00:54:34
him yeah that's a good story I I emailed uh neversoft the next day and I said hey
00:54:43
I did this thing um and I think that people are gonna expect to see it in the game now and I know we didn't animate a 900 but I feel
00:54:51
like if you guys have time to squeeze it in and we were already in beta with the
00:54:56
game which meant that we were going to submit it to the console manufacturers and once you do that you cannot edit it
00:55:03
you can't alter it um and I remember Joel who was the the head of never
00:55:10
stopped he emailed me back right away and he said way ahead of you you [ __ ] rule
00:55:15
and then they got it in I mean and the rest is history right I
00:55:22
guess I hoped I like to think I'm still creating it you know your father Frank he'd been such an avid huge supporter of
00:55:28
you up until that point but he didn't he didn't get to live to see the real all of this stuff after you
00:55:35
were sort of 27 28 years old right no he he saw the first X Games right and to
00:55:41
him that was as big as things could ever get because he was a big sports fan not just you
00:55:47
know obviously he loved skateboarding but he also loved team sports and um for him to see skateboarding on the
00:55:54
sports network that was for him the coming of age gosh I bet he couldn't have imagined
00:56:01
no I mean and to think that it's gone on to be such a a beloved sport internationally
00:56:10
and in the Olympics I mean all that is is just beyond what he would have imagined do you has
00:56:17
every question have you ever wished that he could have seen the what would happen with your career professionally but also
00:56:22
in business I'd rather to see
00:56:28
the rise of skateboarding in general because he was so integral in keeping it
00:56:34
alive at a time when it was struggling um through through sanctioning events
00:56:42
so I mean sure my own success yeah but but I do feel like on a on a bigger
00:56:48
scale in more lofty terms just the success of skateboarding is something that
00:56:55
that he would have been very proud of
00:57:01
that that video game deal we all get emails and these emails often contain
00:57:06
opportunities and sometimes we look at these emails we're trying to figure out if it's an opportunity or not sometimes
00:57:12
it looks like an opportunity sometimes it's a waste of time sometimes it's just someone yeah wanting a meeting to pick your brain about something
00:57:18
um as you reflect on your decision now in hindsight to proceed with that video game was there any close calls
00:57:27
there was another group doing a game that had contacted me and I
00:57:34
um I went down the road with them a little bit and realized that what they were trying
00:57:40
to do was so much more um how to how to explain it it was more
00:57:47
technically difficult to play because they were trying to truly
00:57:52
emulate skating and I felt like I understood that approach but at the
00:57:59
same time Skating wasn't that big when we released this game or when we were going to release this game and
00:58:06
I wanted something that would be more friendly to the non-skater to play to understand to be able to just pick up
00:58:11
and start doing tricks and when I saw what Activision had they had a very
00:58:18
they had a very early version of a skater doing tricks
00:58:25
the way it moved and and to me it was it was intuitive
00:58:31
it was perfect it was like right away I started playing it I started doing tricks it was almost like it was it was an extension of of my body to start
00:58:38
doing this on that screen with that skater and it's something
00:58:44
innately felt right about it to me and so uh was there a close call
00:58:50
I would say if Activision maybe had called me a month or two later I might
00:58:55
have already linked a deal so um but I felt very lucky on the
00:59:01
commercial front I read that you'd been offered a kind of a flat check
00:59:07
in well it when they were close to launch of the game
00:59:12
they started to sense that there was Buzz about it it was already getting good reviews from from previews of the
00:59:20
the game Publishers I mean not the the magazine Publishers so
00:59:26
they knew they had a good game overall and they felt this this surge of
00:59:32
interest and so they offered me a buyout of future royalties right before the
00:59:38
game launched um which at the time it was they offered
00:59:44
me a half million dollars and they said you know I said what does that mean they said well that that's you get that right
00:59:49
now and then no money going forward and for me having lived through some
00:59:56
really lean times when they say a half million dollars to me it sounds like a billion gazillion
01:00:02
dollars I mean it would no one had ever spoken those types of numbers to me before
01:00:09
um but I felt like I was in a pretty good place I was I was doing well in other ways I was I was still skating
01:00:16
a lot I was doing events I was um I had good endorsements I was I was doing we
01:00:22
had birdhouse was starting to actually be profitable my skate company and I had just bought a new house with a with a
01:00:31
not you know I had a loan but my loan was manageable and I thought I'm gonna take a risk because
01:00:38
I'm doing okay and I don't need that money right now and even the timing of that like if it
01:00:43
had been just a few months before that when I was looking at houses maybe I would have taken that
01:00:50
um but I I didn't and that was definitely the best financial decision of my life
01:00:55
because that game was a success to say that one and then the ones after it and the ones after it yeah how does one that
01:01:03
might not understand the scale of that success quantify in a in a dollar amount how many
01:01:08
how much revenue Tony Hawk Pro skates are generated in its in its Legacy I I
01:01:14
mean I know that they they talk about a billion dollars for Activision um you know my take is not that
01:01:21
grandiose but I am never going to complain it changed my life completely
01:01:26
a billion dollars they they generated in sales that that was that was always there they're a big buzz yes
01:01:34
so much I mean so much happens obviously that that makes you financially free um for you know
01:01:41
but also you're you become like the Michael Jordan of skating you are
01:01:46
you know I I was playing you on my video game on the other side of the world when I was
01:01:52
how old was I I'm gonna say eight yes you know you become This Global icon
01:02:00
of a sport and it's funny because I didn't know skating before I knew the video game the video game was my way into to uneven
01:02:07
understanding that the sport existed and I would play with my brothers that's a that's going from zero to a thousand in
01:02:13
terms of no time for sure and and um that was never lost on me I mean I I
01:02:19
felt very lucky to have my name synonymous with a video game and with skateboarding uh because I had devoted
01:02:26
my life to it were you prepared for that no no how could you prepare for anything
01:02:31
like that there's no way I mean it it's it to have that kind of success especially
01:02:38
in video games is reserved for someone like Madden or
01:02:43
Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto I mean it's you know to have it be your name
01:02:49
was wild and and nowadays I mean we've come a long way we did a remaster a couple years ago
01:02:56
there is a whole generation of of kids I'm not kidding that have asked me if I was named after a video game foreign
01:03:07
wow as you might know the show's now sponsored by Airbnb I can't count how
01:03:14
many times airbnbs have saved me when I'm traveling around the world whether it's you know recently when I went to the Jungle in Bali or whether it's when
01:03:20
I'm staying here in the UK or going to business in America but I can also think of so many times where I've stayed in a host's place on Airbnb and I've been sat
01:03:27
there wondering could my place be an Airbnb as well and if it could be how
01:03:33
much could I earn it turns out you could be sitting on an Airbnb gold mine
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without even knowing about it maybe you have a spare room in your house that friends stay from time to time you could
01:03:44
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01:03:51
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01:03:57
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01:04:11
what would you what advice would you have given yourself if you could have to prepare yourself
01:04:16
if you could just whisp it in your ear um I think I would have I would have
01:04:21
told my younger self to work on
01:04:28
work on your state of mind and your priorities um with with equal effort as you do your
01:04:36
skating I was so hyper fixated on my skating and getting better at my success in skating
01:04:43
that um I didn't really work on my Humanity I mean in terms of my relationships and
01:04:50
and being present and and maybe that's what it took to get that far but I think I would just tell my
01:04:57
younger self like to to figure out figure out how to
01:05:02
function more as a human than just a professional did you lose people
01:05:08
yeah um and also gained people through
01:05:13
through my um changes and through my through finding
01:05:22
my priorities and I mean honestly like I'm in a incredible place I'm happier
01:05:28
than I've ever been and I have much better relationships with my kids even
01:05:33
though most of them are adults and I'm just more reliable
01:05:38
what is um what is skating without the relationships like what is skating for you so if you were to if I was to take a
01:05:45
you can escape forever you can carry on doing your skating but I'm gonna take away the family and the meaningful
01:05:51
relationships what does life become then um that doesn't sound as fun
01:05:56
foreign it's not the end-all for me anymore I love it
01:06:03
and I'm going to keep doing as long as I can and probably still push myself in a lot of ways but
01:06:10
that is compartmentalized and it's when I do it I'm all in on it and I'm doing
01:06:17
it and then I leave it there I'm not just obsessing on it the rest of the day I am I've I was speaking to a I
01:06:23
think a neuroscientist on this podcast who told me that the brain actually changes as we as we age up until about
01:06:28
30 where I think for a male it roughly stops changing when we get to 30 I think he he said to me
01:06:34
um and with that our priorities changed so in our early 20s we're like trying to get laid and like trying to do the things that whatever and then as we get
01:06:41
into our 30s and and beyond our priorities in life shift um did you notice with age your priority
01:06:48
shift or was it the children um I think I just noticed that I was stuck
01:06:54
in a cycle of compulsive behaviors and something that that I didn't enjoy
01:07:02
and didn't feel like it was helping me to have good relationships with my family with my kids and I think I just
01:07:09
took inventory and thought I gotta make a a positive change and so it wasn't it wasn't like my brain was changing and I
01:07:17
figured you know it was more that I had to go get help lean into
01:07:23
therapy figure out how to process all these things and how to how to move
01:07:30
forward in a much more congruent way with my values and
01:07:36
I was able to do it it took a while but it was more into my 40s that that happened
01:07:42
what did what did therapy help you to realize about about yourself and why you were exhibiting compulsive behaviors
01:07:49
did you ever figure out why um yeah I think a lot of it was just being afraid of intimacy and a lot of
01:07:55
that I'm not blaming my parents but definitely I didn't have great examples of it growing up
01:08:01
so um I had to figure that out and and and how well how to be vulnerable I think I
01:08:07
was always very guarded you and me both it was I mean and also in those days of
01:08:14
having this sort of unwanted attention made me more guarded because it was like
01:08:20
oh I can't do any I can't say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing and and it didn't allow
01:08:26
me to be myself very much and and I think I'm much more comfortable in my own skin now and able to
01:08:33
able to to hold a more interesting conversations do you've got children now so do you you
01:08:40
know I often think about like generational Cycles I think about the like the intimacy or the emotional expression that I didn't learn from my
01:08:46
parents and like an uh fear that I have had hanging over me is that I might replicate that for my children sure
01:08:53
accidentally yeah and and I I was definitely worried about that like
01:09:00
my dad never never said I love you never professed that kind of thing or or was warm in
01:09:06
that sense and so that was more my example to live by and and through the
01:09:12
years and I was I was very much kind of the same and um at some point let go of that
01:09:20
I still struggle with it now yeah you know it's it's funny I again I've spoken
01:09:26
to lots of just sort of childhood therapists Gabel mate and um they talk about like these different types of
01:09:32
traumas that we have in one of them is called goblins near this Gremlins and he talks about how goblins are usually before the age of 10 years old and
01:09:39
they're very very hard to shake so they always kind of live there somewhere in us so even sometimes saying being intimate now or
01:09:45
being vulnerable or saying I love you it's like it's difficult
01:09:50
for me I get that it's uncomfortable yes I'm I'm starting to get much more at ease
01:09:57
with it though with practice with practice Yeah and running the experiment I guess
01:10:02
yeah and also I see I see how it makes my kids feel
01:10:07
it makes them feel seen and and loved and and important
01:10:14
and it's particularly important as I've come to learn if you want to have a good relationship with a woman or man but
01:10:21
yeah my girlfriend is very much the opposite in terms of intimacy so it's kind of
01:10:27
it's an ongoing friction what role has um your your wife played
01:10:32
in the broader context of your professional success just a a feeling of well she's she's
01:10:41
just so grounded and she gives me a sense of home and she is very supportive but also has
01:10:49
her priorities intact so when in in deciding what to get involved
01:10:56
with she's my sounding board um and and she's the one who I trust the
01:11:02
most with her opinion and um and she understands that that I am
01:11:08
challenged in terms of my sense of intimacy and and how to navigate
01:11:15
fatherhood and she has been so great in opening that up for me
01:11:21
um and helping to show me the the best way to navigate it
01:11:26
um and just the she's not swayed by
01:11:31
fanfare at all at all she could do away with it all
01:11:38
together um and I love that and and I cherish that
01:11:43
I guess that's what makes you feel like home right that all the noise oh yeah it's outside yeah absolutely I mean if
01:11:49
you catch us on a Saturday night we're and a lot of times like our a couple of
01:11:54
our boys are in college one of them's in college up here in La one of we have
01:12:01
many children so let's just say that sometimes they'll come home for the weekend and as much as
01:12:06
we like seeing them if you catch us on Saturday night they're downstairs watching UFC fights with their homies
01:12:12
and we're upstairs hiding from everyone and we're asleep by 9 pm that's pretty
01:12:18
much our big raging weekend you know after you become the the icon
01:12:23
of a sport um what does that do to your sense of identity and I I I'm asking that
01:12:28
question because now everyone assumes they know you before they've met you they kind of see you as this character
01:12:35
from a game I think uh what you see is what you get with me I'm I'm not trying to present some other
01:12:42
persona and like I said in the past maybe I was more guarded with who I was
01:12:48
or or how I was trying to be and now I I think I'm just more much more natural and much more real and
01:12:55
um this is it you know I'm super thankful for what I get to do I do not take this for granted at all
01:13:01
and I know it could all be gone tomorrow um but I'm going to seize opportunities
01:13:07
and do the best I can with it and and in the meanwhile try to promote skateboarding on a bigger level but
01:13:16
I know what you're saying and and sometimes that is weird but at the same time I'm open to hanging out having a
01:13:23
conversation you know Bear Grylls yes so Bear Grylls was the one that said to me
01:13:28
that when he he's almost become synonymous with like outdoor activities like if your friends like eating some
01:13:34
mud you'd go you think you better grills yeah whatever and he said something interesting to me which has always stayed with me he said the the bigger my
01:13:39
brand got the more self-doubt I got and that's true that's kind of the Imposter
01:13:45
syndrome right where uh you think like why me why is it
01:13:50
are you are they sure they got the right guy um and I understand that but at the same time I
01:13:57
think I've I've been through enough phases of success and failure to know
01:14:04
that whatever is coming my way or whatever it is that I'm putting out there um is real and is tangible
01:14:12
and so the self-doubt is not as is more of a
01:14:18
whisper success and failure you know you fail every day in terms of
01:14:25
skating some of the big big failures in your life post the video game coming out because I think we've highlighted your
01:14:31
story to appear to be just success success success success Big Break success success what are some of those
01:14:37
big failures that have occurred over the last decade that we might not have been cognizant of um well I definitely have
01:14:43
had businesses that fail just because they were either not the right time or they were they were a little beyond my
01:14:50
expertise and I thought somehow because I had other success I probably could do
01:14:55
well in other in other uh stages or another spaces but I um I think it's
01:15:03
failure yeah you know I've had failed relationships and um learned a lot from those and and was
01:15:09
able to to grow and and hopefully amend my mistakes and and hurting people
01:15:15
um and I think that uh it's just a it's just a path of
01:15:22
evolution um and so I I mean I've always learned to embrace
01:15:30
my mistakes with skateboarding and in a sense I do that with my my regular life
01:15:35
too but they embraced that the idea that I grew from them yeah yeah yeah
01:15:41
business there's a there's a business behind you even still today you have a a
01:15:48
big team um what is the the entrepreneurial side of your life currently what are your
01:15:53
business ventures we have um Hawk apparel
01:15:58
um which is Tony Hawk clothing um we have birdhouse skateboards birdhouse apparel is actually its own uh
01:16:06
subsidiary uh with a group um with a couple guys in Las Vegas that are doing it which is super cool um I have the
01:16:13
skatepark project which is a foundation for public skate parks in low-income areas
01:16:18
um I'm part of a lot of different Investments and Ventures
01:16:24
um things that I that I'm interested in and um it kind of I can't say that it
01:16:33
it Ebbs and flows some of them Ebbs and flows but for the most part um
01:16:39
there's been a crazy trajectory lately I mean honestly it's it's even surprising to me that that
01:16:45
um people are still interested in what I do uh personally and also all the
01:16:51
all the ventures that I'm involved with we um we have this new tradition on this
01:16:56
podcast Tony where we have these cards and these cards are based on previous guests
01:17:02
um questions that they've left in the book for the next guest so basically every guest writes the question for the next guest without knowing who it is
01:17:09
we've turned it into these conversation cards and I'm gonna be honest you know we've did this because listeners of this
01:17:15
podcast listen because they like slightly deeper questions and context so it allows them to play at home
01:17:20
um I have I think eight here I'm gonna put them in front of you and all you've got to do is pick one card
01:17:25
okay if you're willing to play and then answer that question okay do you get QR codes do I have to scan no
01:17:32
it's okay the QR code just tells you who answered it let's just answered it
01:17:39
let's see what are some words you've never said to anybody why haven't you said them and who should you have sent
01:17:46
them to um I think that I would
01:17:53
have told my wife even though I thought that I was going to
01:17:58
um kind of turned my life around and change my priorities uh I think that I would
01:18:05
have told her that I was I was really frightened of the of the path or of
01:18:12
trying to make those changes and um I think she knew it but it probably
01:18:19
would have helped to confirm that with with words and um and
01:18:26
I think maybe it would have given her a better perspective on my
01:18:32
vulnerabilities early on um because when we first started dating I was still kind of chaotic with with
01:18:40
what I was doing and and my approach to my career and my life and everything and and I made uh I made a conscious choice
01:18:48
to make a positive change and she knew I was doing that but I don't think I let on how
01:18:53
how scary that was for me why why didn't you tell her
01:19:00
because I wanted her to think that I was so capable of it
01:19:06
and so confident with it um
01:19:12
but you know what I mean she's too intuitive she knew yeah man women
01:19:17
this fight is funny you say that because recently I've ran the experiment of telling my girlfriend when I'm
01:19:24
struggling with something and I literally told like I it was it felt like an experiment because I was always
01:19:29
like tough guy like could never yeah you know I think I think that was it I was
01:19:34
always I was always guarded and also I I managed to get this far
01:19:40
with how I was functioning um I can't say it was it was the smoothest but you know so I I had some
01:19:47
sense of control but uh I think it was more to give up that control
01:19:52
was probably the the more scary thing that I should have conveyed um but
01:19:59
I feel like like I said I we we've come so far especially you know we have a blended
01:20:05
family and uh our kids have a blast we have a blast we we cherish our time with
01:20:12
them we cherish our time alone and um I think we have a really good
01:20:18
uh I think we just have great communication and uh
01:20:25
an intimacy so I you know she doesn't like me talking about her so that's as far as I'm going to go with it I am I'm
01:20:32
right in my diary the other day that I used to think vulnerability was um deep down inside me like tough guy who didn't
01:20:37
really learn vulnerability from my parents or anything I used to think vulnerability was a repellent what I came to learn right is that it's a
01:20:43
magnet yeah and that's when I say around the experiment it's deep in me I thought people would like run away or he's
01:20:49
weakies whatever and what happens is the total opposite it's like you draw them into you right I think I think what I
01:20:56
learned one of the one of the things I learned early on is that The Bravery actually means sharing your feelings
01:21:02
yeah which doesn't seem to make sense
01:21:07
because one would think bravery was the opposite but right I'm on that Journey now in the Diary of a CEO we have
01:21:13
hundreds of questions that have been left by our guests and we've put them on these cards
01:21:19
and on these cards you have the question that's been left in the diver CEO the
01:21:25
name of the person who wrote the question and if you turn it over there's a QR code if you scan that code you can
01:21:32
see which guest answered the question and watch the video of them answering it every time I've done this podcast and
01:21:38
every time we've asked the kind of questions we ask here I feel a tremendous sense of affinity to the guest and our aim with these cards is
01:21:44
that you can create that sense of connection through vulnerability at home with the people you love the most and I
01:21:51
have some good news for you as of today you can add your name to the waiting list to be the first in line to get your
01:21:58
own set of conversation cards at the conversationcards.com the question that was actually left for
01:22:04
you um what have you done recently for someone else nice easy one
01:22:11
um uh I can't say Nintendo World what's
01:22:19
that you can't say Nintendo Land isn't that enough
01:22:24
I uh well and I guess more materialistic I bought my wife a new car as a surprise
01:22:30
oh wow um I think that uh whatever what did I do for someone else probably on a bigger
01:22:36
scale um I bought a skateboard at an auction that
01:22:41
was a used skateboard that was hand painted by Kurt Cobain
01:22:47
um for a guy he knew and the guy paid him twenty dollars in a bag of weed to
01:22:53
paint a skateboard this guy had held onto the skateboard through the years because I think
01:22:58
because more because he was a hoarder um and dug it out of his storage not
01:23:04
long ago and said oh this is that board that Kurt painted I should put it up for an auction so I got wind of it I bought
01:23:11
it and um through the help of Francis Kurt Cobain's daughter
01:23:17
I I verified the authenticity of it and recreated it
01:23:22
and so I recreated the skateboard exactly photorealistic same shape and
01:23:28
everything and made 500 of them and the proceeds from those skateboard sales go
01:23:35
to half go to the Jed Foundation For Suicide Prevention and half go to the skatepark project for public skate parks
01:23:42
that's so cool um so I feel like today what I do I'm hoping that I did
01:23:48
something for people to either for those struggling with mental health
01:23:53
or for and also for those who want a place to skate and that's so cool at
01:24:00
last check uh We've sold 300 of them 300 out of the 500. I'm going to buy one
01:24:07
I would appreciate it yes I'm gonna buy one I'll buy one today what do I buy and then for you to answer then that would
01:24:12
be your answer would I do help people shout out reissue how do I buy one or uh Tony hawk.com
01:24:18
um in the in the store don't amazing Tony listen thank you so much for
01:24:23
um coming here today it's surreal to meet you because you were you know you still are an icon in my eyes because you
01:24:30
know it's crazy that I'm I'm from a little Countryside Village on the other side of the world and I was born in Africa and I was playing you on a game
01:24:36
your game when I was just a young kid and so cool you're the reason why as I said earlier you're the reason why I
01:24:42
thought skateboarding was cool and I had an interest in it but the reason why at 12 years old I actually got a skateboard I was never able to skate I fell off a
01:24:49
couple of times I quit I'm gonna be honest yeah but I bought the board and I had an interest in the sport because of you and your legacy and it's a legacy
01:24:55
you continue to to create in many ways to do business and through your philanthropic Endeavors so thank you and
01:25:00
thank you for your humility you know it's very easy to see how someone like you might be off in the clouds but from everything I've seen all the research
01:25:06
I've done you're it seems like you've been seemingly untouched and I guess maybe from what you said your wonderful
01:25:12
partner and your family deserves some credit for that because they oh for sure you know you've been a grounding Force thank you so much time yeah thank you
01:25:18
thanks for having me quick word from one of our sponsors I have to say I've been on a bit of a
01:25:24
journey with this brand because when I started my business in new territories when we first moved social chain to the
01:25:29
to New York City the first place we went to was wework we moved four of our team members out to New York City and we
01:25:36
built the business from there um I have to say there's something magical about weworks I've spent the
01:25:41
last two or three weeks in LA in a wee work and as you walk in the front door every day it's almost like that sense of
01:25:47
community that sense of magic excitement camaraderie is tangible and you don't
01:25:53
get that when you're working at home you don't get that often when you're sat in your bed on your laptop there's something about getting out and getting
01:25:59
into a wee work that makes me feel a sense of Entrepreneurship and and creativity and building and the way that
01:26:06
we work to design both both in the way that they offer subscriptions so that you can work you know on demand but also
01:26:12
the the flexibility of the contracts means that it's just the perfect place for businesses to scale their companies
01:26:18
and if you haven't checked out where you work and you want to you can go to we dot Co slash CEO and there you can get
01:26:25
50 off at trial day at wework close to you I've now been a fuel Drinker for about four years roughly so much so that
01:26:33
I ended up investing in the company um and I play a role on the board of the company but they also very kindly sponsor this podcast and to be honest
01:26:40
I've never said this before but he all believed in this podcast before anybody else the CEO Julian um told me before we even launched the
01:26:46
podcast how successful it would be and that heel would back it and I absolutely have a huge amount of gratitude for them for that support but an even greater
01:26:53
sense of gratitude for the fact that they've helped me stay nutritionally complete throughout the chaos and hecticness of my tremendously busy
01:27:00
business schedule so if you haven't tried out here which I hope most of you have at least given it a go by now try
01:27:05
it out it's an unbelievable way to try and stay nutritionally on course if you have a hectic busy schedule and let me
01:27:12
know what you think send me a tweet and a DM tag me let me know what you think
