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[Music]
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all right what's going on everybody welcome back to the waveform podcast we're your hosts i'm marquez and i'm andrew and that's
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not andrew actually surprise wow
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for the audio only listeners david just ripped his face off i ripped andrew's face we ripped andrew's face off welcome
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david mel to waveform episode 70. so uh shout out to andrew he's out in
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the mountains right now going on fun hikes climbing big rocks i'm sure having a good time but uh we
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still have plenty of tech to talk about and figured we'd put it all in one place here um our last
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episode was episode 69 nice there it is and uh we took some time to do a
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fun little like game show type thing that we built so it's a sort of a tech trivia show you can play along
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it's about like tech and videos from the first half of the year it's it's a little more visual heavy for maybe for that one go to the youtube channel for
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it but we're back with a bunch of tech to talk about i kind of want to start with windows 11
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because you said are you running windows 11 not on this computer this is actually andrew's computer i left my surface book at home sadly um
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but i am running windows 11 on my surface book so it was just unveiled last week and now there's a build available for the
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public to actually download and try i made a reaction video just like talking about my couple major
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thoughts on the new changes it's very glassy and shiny and transparent overall
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the start menu centered now that you've used it for a little bit maybe a day or two have you found some things like super
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easy to get over or like really jarring or have you gotten used to all of it how's it going a couple different things i found that one it sort of feels
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like microsoft is trying to simplify everything with the ui they're trying to make it from what i've gathered it feels like
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they're they're moving the ui elements more towards feeling like a phone which is pretty funny but it kind of
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makes sense uh especially for the generations that are growing up right now if they want to
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onboard all of these like kids yeah that have been using phones since they
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were born yeah there's the there's the big pullover thing from the side which is where all these widgets and ai
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news feeds live is that part of what you're talking about it's that and then everything's bigger and bubblier
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um so for example in regular windows 10 yeah if you like click down on like
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there's all these icons in the bottom right with like battery management you can switch power modes and all these things
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now you click and there's just like one set of quick settings that comes up okay and
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they're they're all pretty big icons they're individual and you can swap them out it's almost like the quick settings menu on your phone
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yeah and you can edit what's there and they're big and then all the menus just look completely different they're
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more simplified uh they're definitely more aesthetically pleasing okay and so i think it's definitely
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something windows needed to do because they're kind of known for being very um what's the word i guess like
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focused on information heaviness and less on just ui and aesthetics yeah and it just needs
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to it just they needed simplification for people to be able to like know how to use it right i also found weirdly that big sur
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also had a lot of elements that looked like they belonged maybe not on a phone but at least on a touch
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screen yeah like big touch targets sliders things that are like way bigger than they used to be
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yeah felt less like a computer and i wonder if that's kind of in the same vein they're like oh
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well there's gonna be young people who are used to ipads we'll make it look kind of like an ipad or are there future things in mind i don't really know
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um centered start menu good bad totally okay i haven't gotten used to it yet personally uh i keep going to the
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left you can move it right so you can move to the left if you want i'm trying to get used to it before i move it
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yeah um it's a little bit weird i do like that the icons come up from the center it
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feels more like it's being you know birthed from the center that's maybe a weird term but like yeah
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everything like comes out of the center instead of having to like look around your screen it was a it was a big focus of the event
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of like this whole centered theme yeah it's like it's gonna it's not only the center of the screen but like it's
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the center of your life and it's the center of your environment and windows is now the center of this
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like ecosystem yeah i feel at home oh man we should have had panos on that windows 10
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home yeah no it's it it makes sense to me anytime i go to windows i just hit the windows button on the keyboard so it
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would just be an aesthetic change for me instead of mousing to the corner i would just hit the button and be like oh it's in the middle
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but yeah you know it's a small thing to get used to for the last like year or two they've been updating their
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icons to yeah basically get ready for this and their new icon design i think is
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really good it's very specific very like you don't really get it confused with any other
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icons yeah i like it yeah me too i like it this the new store icon but also speaking of the store uh that
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was one of the biggest most interesting parts of their announcement yeah and i we should talk about it for a second so
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you can now this is the headline you can now run android apps on windows 11. oh cool great i don't
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know if i'm gonna do that but like okay you know makes sense lots of people who are used to a certain number of apps they want to bring them
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everywhere they go they can now use them on their windows pc neat um the the subtext to that headline
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is inside of the windows store the way this is going to work is microsoft has partnered with amazon
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and amazon's android app app store which is not the same as the play store it's a
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it's a big overlap but it's an amazon app store will surface results inside of microsoft store yep
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so you have to want to search in the windows store in the microsoft store for apps and then when you do step one yeah when
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you do you'll find some android apps in there let's say you want to install one if you do you'll have to be signed into
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your amazon account and you'll have to have the amazon app store app on your pc yeah so once
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that is all done then you can download apps that were built for arm chips and android and touch screens
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and put them on your pc uh do you care at all about this this is going to try it i'm not saying there's
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so many thoughts about this i i tweeted about this because i was really like this feels so
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hacky and convoluted and it kind of goes back to we use computers differently than we use
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phones right when you have a phone you're used to going to the app store downloading an app like
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you don't side loading apps you can do on android but you only would really do it if like
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you're either trying to get it for free or you'd normally have to pay for it um not this is not legal advice yeah
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um i shouldn't actually do that but yeah um or if you it was like taken off of the
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play store or something and you wanted to get it yeah um that's pretty much the only i do that all the time stands yeah
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yeah so the whereas on my computer yeah side loading on a computer is
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basically the default like you download apps from websites
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yeah it's a different interesting behavior i'm trying to think of all the apps that i typically install like when i set up a new computer
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whether it's a mac or a windows machine i don't really go to the actual store very much now on a
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mac i do a little bit more yeah there's a little bit better curation and i get slack and my to-do list and you
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know final cut and tweetbot all from the store but when i'm setting up a windows machine i'm going to the browser for
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pretty much everything every first slack for that app for spotify for that app for you know my to-do list for the app
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all these are things that i'm downloading from the web and i don't really go to the microsoft windows store
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so is this an effort i guess for them to like make you more comfortable with the store get you
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using the store more even though they don't want it to take over the whole experience 100 i think so because like like i said before um you know we're so used to like
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just going to an app store on our phones whereas on our computers and you said like yeah you maybe will download some apps
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off of the mac app store you still can download most apps from the
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website right you still can yeah and even on android uh way back in the day when you go to
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amazon.com it would be like hey we have a free app of the week on the amazon app store you should
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sideload the and like they encouraged you to sideload another app store on your phone
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which now seems like weird you would think google would get really mad about that um that might be an antitrust thing i'm
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not sure but like the fact that you had to side load the amazon app store
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onto your android phone in the past and they would kind of just like copy as many apps from the play store as
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they could onto the amazon app store yeah and now you have to do that on your computer
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it just feels so hacky one and then two i really dislike that you need to
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have now a microsoft account and an amazon account to be able to run
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android apps like like it's more of a it's more about principle like we all have both accounts yes and it's fine yeah but like
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the same way you needed a facebook account to use an oculus rift yeah i don't want both exactly
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okay and and then the other thing is that um we've tried you know running mobile apps on on
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screens that were not made for mobile apps chrome os supports android apps i like that for some reasons because i
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never use them yet the only thing i really use that for was being able to upload photos
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to instagram from my laptop which you can actually do in chrome if you emulate a
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tablet a mobile device yeah okay but if you like edit on your pc then you want to just upload yeah there are some like edge cases
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but but at the same time like the experience of using a mobile app on anything but a mobile device is really
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bad yeah yeah it's not great like he showed tick-tock on the screen and they just showed tik-tok open but i
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was like go ahead try to scroll yeah you don't have a touch screen go ahead and you're on the mouse like you know it's like not
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an ideal experience yeah all these apps are built for finger input so trying to replicate that
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with the touch pad on various windows laptops will be various different experiences so it is what it is but i did see you i
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think it was confirmed you'll be able to sideload android apps i think straight up apk is
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right into windows 11 which is pretty cool which is nice so if i find like a dark sky clone
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somewhere on the dark web i can install the apk yeah uh but that is that is the state of yeah the
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new store on windows 11. i just i don't know what android apps that you would want to run on a
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computer that you couldn't there isn't a better alternative that you can just download from a website
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you know and like i definitely think that this is a move for microsoft to get more people
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comfortable with the windows store because they can take more revenue if you buy games directly off of the windows store
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than if you you know buy it on steam they don't get revenue from that yes although they they did make a pretty
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big point in their presentation about like the choice developers have now where you can go through microsoft and i
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think they take a 15 cut so or you can use your own payment system and they don't take a cut at all
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right and they set it on stage yeah because now that everybody knows apple's taking a 30 cut that's sort of a big deal
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yeah so yeah just making developers comfortable making users comfortable checking out how great this windows store is
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it is really it is really interesting because like i want to immediately dismiss the idea that people will ever
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use the windows store at all ever because i have never used it at all ever and i
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don't plan to but that said like i said with like pre like newer generations being more
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used to at the idea of app stores yeah if they come onto windows devices and there is an app store maybe
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they'll default to that versus the side loading of downloading something from a website yeah and it'll have all the apps they already
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know yeah and the other thing is that like windows 11 is very geared towards like they made a big deal of it being
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very touch screen friendly right and this concerned me a little bit because uh if we remember windows 8 it
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was overtly touch screen friendly so much so that desktop users got really put to the it was built for touch
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screen it was built for touchdown tiles and everything yeah they made a big deal of this also being more built for touch screens
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i think it's a better kind of like uh balance because they just made the touch
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targets bigger and like the ui doesn't actually really change when you switch to touchscreen
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mode but it is easier to use so it's a good balance i'm just a little
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bit worried that they're going to like fall back into that cycle of like bad windows good winners bad windows good
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ones so i i agree i think they're they did make a nicer balance i think i hope they've learned their lesson
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like if we went to windows 8 and then they got right to 8.1 like they made the changes they had to yeah so i feel like yeah we have bigger
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touch targets but it does still look like windows as far as i can tell and i'm sure we'll find out more as this comes
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out eventually by the end of the year i guess but uh yeah i think that the last bit about windows 11 i want to talk about was the
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the confusion about what computers can actually update to windows 11 because there's a certain chip now it was a mess
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i guess can we break it down as simply as possible there's a chip yeah that is in most modern pcs that
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is required to run windows 11 yeah and if you i think a lot of people just
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don't know if they have the chip or not or they've realized that their like three-year-old laptop doesn't have the chip or it isn't
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enabled and you have to go into the bios and enable it and then it'll work yeah um i think a compatibility checker
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that handles all this stuff would be great if it just had blanket they have they have it okay
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it was broken for the first about week right so so it's like the this chip is called
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a tpm chip it's a security module chip that is supposed to handle like lower level security stuff microsoft
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said you needed a tpm 2.0 chip which only came out like three years ago
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uh and actually in the system requirements it said 2.0 but it's not actually required 1.2
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is required which came out a long time ago okay almost every computer has a 1.2
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chip um the problem is the compatibility checker was like no it was broken for multiple
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reasons like for one reason it was saying you need a two when you actually only need a 1.2 and then the other thing was the bios
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thing whereas like i think they're like you would you would think that maybe everyone that wants to get on the
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insider build or like the like beta build of windows 11 would know how to do stuff with their bios i don't think
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that's the case this is not the case there's a difference between beta testers and people that are like willing
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to like get really into the wheels the bios and everything yeah which is it's a scary thing to do
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yes you can really mess up your computer yeah so all right well i hope i hope it gets simplified in the future i'm
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looking forward to more testing of windows 11 yeah segway time speaking of
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uh 11 wow i i don't know you're gonna
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but well the xperia one mark three has nothing to do with eleven well it has a one and it has a one in
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there three ones it doesn't have a two one so the name is two elevens but then one of the it gets it left anyway it
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walked away okay the review of the sony experiment iii is now live on the channel
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and i wanted to shout that out because this i'm gonna hold it up right now this has got to be the most oddly put
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together set of flagship parts i've ever seen yeah it it is it becomes
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uber enthusiast it's like a really good phone yeah i really enjoyed using this phone except for the one weird auto
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rotate bug um but i just want to just go over from the top to the bottom
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every weird decision they've made about this file yeah sure and why it just seems like it's it's geared to be the lowest selling
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best phone they've ever made okay number one the name it's the sony xperia one
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three okay yep that's just good luck explaining that it's you can say mark three yeah you can
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say it's the the third one whatever you want to say it's not a great name yeah um but there it is sony xperia one
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mark three two this phone was announced in april and it's been under embargo for a while since then
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i've had this phone for about a month yeah i got the phone and typically this is what happens we get a phone for review and it's like all right
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well when does it actually get like unveiled when is the embargo up it'll be in a week or so and we'll have that
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amount of time to play with the phone sometimes it's two weeks nice this one it was like five weeks
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we're like okay this is what happens is it gets announced it has some cool features and then slowly the hype
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drains and the attention span forgets yeah and then it quietly launches a month later no one buys it so yeah it
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is out now um yeah the screen the screen is the next one
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so this is a high-end phone it's got a snapdragon triple eight 12 gigs of ram android 11. but this screen is a
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21x9 4k oled at 120hz so
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it's a battery burner it definitely burns through battery but it's 4k all the time and you cannot change the
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resolution and that to me is kind of crazy you can change the refresh rate
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between 60 and 120. um would you even want a 4k phone or it's one of those things that like
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they have those compatibility not compatibility checkers but they have these grids online that you can look up that's like
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what resolution do you need for how far away you are from your device and it's usually for tvs and it's like
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you only need 4k if you're sitting up this close because then you'll start to see the pixels
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your phone is like six inches from your face yeah so so i think that's why apple did the whole retina display thing
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was because like look you're here um you know it's like at least you can
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toggle the 4k mode on in youtube and know that it's giving you all the pixels okay yeah um but it
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it just feels like something they felt like they needed to do because they have the bravia line of tvs
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i would be fine with it it's just you can't turn it down yeah like sony put a 1440p screen in a lot of
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their phones and at any point you can just switch it to 1080p mode and you'll save battery life you'll save power you're pushing less
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pixels performance will be better and you just know you have the ability to do that at any time if you want 1440 turn it back up now you
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can watch the video at full res this phone is 4k yeah which would be a great
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option but you cannot turn it off yeah and i wonder if they'll add that with a software update or whatever but i mean
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it's a great looking screen but like you said if you're looking thinking about retina display um that's like 250 to 350 ppi is like
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pretty good yeah this is a 640 plus ppi that's insane like yeah yeah i got i
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mean i got to say like i do appreciate high density displays i remember when the lg g3 came out and it was like it was the forced 1440p
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phone and it just blew my mind and they had all of these demos built into the phone that would just be like 1440p video and
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you could show your friends and it was amazing um and i like 1440p phones i just find
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it hilarious because like samsung for example who like when the ultra came out
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everyone was like oh but i want to run you know 1440p at 120 hertz and they're
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like aha you can't do that you can run 1080p at 120 hertz or you can run 1440p at 60
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hertz and yet sony's just like you will run 4k 4k all the time at 120 hertz no choice
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oh my gosh and you're gonna like it too yeah uh yeah no this is a is a really
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interesting choice and we'll see if that ever changes but then also okay this phone also has a but it's a nice design it's matte black
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it's kind of like soft touch it's pretty squared off but it's got a ton of like these niche features that you just don't see combined to phones
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nowadays yeah one headphone jack yeah wow they added that in the two by the way in the xperia one one
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they didn't have it 11 windows 11. um and the experiment they didn't have it which was like
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you know sony this is your chance yeah exactly so they added it back yes it's still here yeah uh there's this really nice haptic motor
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and this like sync where it'll like sync to the beat of your music and vibrate the music
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which is yeah xperia xz2 they added that and it's kind of ridiculous but whatever
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it works yeah it's a powerful motor i dislike when there's like a weak vibration motor and you're like yes calls because of it yeah
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tool-less sim card tray sony's always had this and it's so underrated for tech reviewers so
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happy like i know people generally don't care but it's so nice and especially because they also have dual sim and a micro sd
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card slot micro sd card expansion yes so you can add up to a terabyte of storage via micro sd
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that's a dying breed how many dying breed things we have in here there's a led notification light on this phone
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yeah you really don't see that very well i remember when i had to like run cyan engine mod on my galaxy
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nexus 6 to be able to enable the the led notification oh yeah because it had one but it didn't
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talk to any apps yeah yeah yeah that was a weird time that was weird like they were going to use it and then they scrapped it but you could like get it
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back if you ran your own custom wrong yeah and then it would glow like green for text and yellow for twitter and like
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yeah first whatever like that's that was cool um this phone's got custom buttons okay so
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all the way on the right hand side power button and fingerprint reader volume rocker up here which is nice
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custom single button down here just for google assistant yes very nice give me that very nice i kind
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of wish there was a software toggle to continually make that whatever i want but yeah i would have made it assistant anyway so cool
00:21:51
yeah and then a separate camera toggle yeah with a half press for focus and a full
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press to launch or take photos and videos that is all like very unusual to find in any other
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phone out there right now yeah but i think the camera is where it gets the weirdest yeah
00:22:09
so we've got triple cameras on the back uh a regular an ultra wide and a telephoto yep but the telephoto
00:22:16
has two different focal lengths and this was a we were trying to figure out how they did this or you know what exactly is happening
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inside the phone there are some sony videos on their youtube channel where you can see it's it's a periscope type lens so it's
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sideways inside the phone but there are glass elements moving inside the phone so it'll snap between 70 millimeters and 105
00:22:37
millimeters yeah in practice it's not actually that big of a difference in zoom that's like a 1.3 x
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or whatever you want to call it but it was just fascinating that it would actually do that and they
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actually spent the time to engineer such a unique solution inside the phone yeah um do you think this has a future
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do you think this could be built by other companies do you think they'll keep doing this yeah i could i could see it as being
00:23:04
a thing for sure i think optical telephoto lenses are very important because like software
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is fine when you have really high resolution sensors and we do have really high resolution sensors but again
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you have all of these problems with higher resolution sensors in smartphones because like sure but they're not big enough and
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then when you do make them big you have a very small plane of focus yep what sony was trying to do with
00:23:29
with this and they started this in xperia one two i believe was like they want to have the holy trinity of lenses
00:23:36
which is a 16 to 24 a 24 to 70 and a 70 to 200. okay and so the idea is that there's a
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16 there's a 24 and then in the mark ii there was a 70 and you could zoom you
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could do software crop between them yeah this one i think they're just trying to give you as much
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optical capability as possible i love it yeah i think it's a great idea but i get
00:24:01
a little nervous about this for two reasons one um
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i don't so i was i talked about this in the review video but what samsung did with dual aperture yeah where they they had a
00:24:13
really good idea they were like okay we would like to be able to close down aperture because you can get more in focus you can take sharper photos
00:24:20
there's all sorts of useful applications of it and in the galaxy s9 they had either a wide
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open or stop down i forgot what the f-stop was yeah but like 4.4 or something yeah versus like 1.8 or
00:24:30
whatever wide open and you could see it like snap close snap open and they they built that under the phone and i
00:24:35
was like that is super cool literally a variable aperture in our main smartphone camera yeah and
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the next year was gone yep and they never did it again and really usually you really could have
00:24:46
used it because there's phones like the s21 that have the ultra shallow depth of field where if you
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could just stop down to f4 like every photo in daylight would look better so
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the fact that they never brought it back despite being super useful it makes me nervous that this might never show up in another phone again yeah it's just a
00:25:03
gimmick nobody's gonna buy the phone sony's gonna realize all the r d money was for nothing and then it's gone
00:25:08
yeah so i'm nervous about that it might happen it might not um but the other thing is like it's it's
00:25:14
not that great of a camera set yeah it's a you know sony's made like great improvements with their software
00:25:20
and obviously sony makes alpha cameras and they've made really good cameras in the past and so this is really good fast
00:25:27
focus and really cool having a dedicated shutter button and all the advanced modes and everything 20 fps
00:25:32
burst mode it's great i never miss a shot there's like no shutter lag but then the shot i get is like
00:25:37
yeah a little too shallow a little bit muted so it is what it is the phone itself
00:25:43
though uh very nice i'll show this on the podcast even though i did it already on the video uh world's slowest auto
00:25:50
rotate i've never seen anything like this in any other phone ready
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wow it takes a good four seconds yeah it's a we actually timed it
00:26:02
yesterday on average it was almost three and then one time it took seven yeah and
00:26:08
as a person i know not everybody some people just lock auto rotate and never use and don't care but as a person who
00:26:13
does rotate stuff all the time i watch a lot of videos it got very annoying yeah something to
00:26:19
keep an eye on maybe they'll fix that with software but sony xperia one mark iii hundred bucks if you can get over that
00:26:25
then you'll have the world's maybe not the world's first variable aperture or variable zoom but
00:26:31
yeah a couple really impressive things 4k screen and a nice smooth android experience yeah yeah they're good their ui is
00:26:37
really good i think i think we were talking about this yesterday it's like i think the s like the s21 ultra 1200
00:26:42
dollars is a best a better overall package for people who care about the things that most people
00:26:47
care about yeah but if you're like a hardcore just like i want the best everything yeah then like these are
00:26:54
really good phones yeah i would say i would argue the s21 ultra for the same price will give you all better cameras yeah they would give
00:27:01
you a better screen despite not being 4k because it's bigger much brighter yeah they would give you better software
00:27:08
they would give you better battery life they would give you faster charging and they'd probably give you more software updates but if you care about
00:27:14
the things that sony does yeah you care about the dual stereo front-facing speakers yeah which is the expandable storage that samsung doesn't
00:27:21
have the headphone jack the led notification light like all these crazy enthusiast things it's your boy i always used to say the
00:27:27
xperia ones are the r slash android phone yeah that's what's gonna happen we haven't uploaded the video yet as of the
00:27:33
recording of this now but this is this is where i expect people to care about this phone cool
00:27:38
so did you see the boss dynamics new video on their youtube channel it did i
00:27:45
love these videos yeah i gotta say and it gets a mixed reaction in the studio i have it here in the notes that
00:27:51
i think adam wrote this is how the world ends i i'm not so down on these i'm kind of
00:27:56
into the idea of like robots being able to do all sorts of crazy things so i'm just going to describe the video
00:28:02
real quick for those who are listening uh picture spot the boston dynamics robot that we've done a video with with a
00:28:10
about a three foot goose neck robot attachment that that yeah the neck attachment one
00:28:16
is the one that freaks me out the most yeah it's kind of it looks like it's a it's like a face on top of the robot on a neck and then picture like seven of
00:28:24
them all doing a choreograph dance extremely precisely i might add with like
00:28:30
obviously very robotic movements but also like a pretty good amount of rhythm yeah so yeah good for them this is like
00:28:36
i tweeted about this i was like this is a this is a whole job yeah like it's somebody's job at boston dynamics
00:28:42
to choreograph a dance they they get probably free access to like i'm gonna need seven robots this week and
00:28:49
a bluetooth speaker and i'm gonna make something happen yeah and then they get to do it what were your thoughts watching the
00:28:54
video when we first saw it i always they're they're fun they're definitely very fun yeah um i
00:29:00
think they're equally equally scary come on i i look if you've seen black mirror
00:29:08
okay like there's an episode and they've referenced this before where they have robotic dogs who are
00:29:14
chasing down people in like a post-apocalyptic world and i i think the stuff that these
00:29:20
robots can do is insane and like they have the humanoid ones too that dance and they're it's they can do freaking like backflips
00:29:27
the humanoid ones are a little creepy yeah a little bit they're very robocop so here's why i'm not creeped out really by them
00:29:32
uh-huh is because i know that they are all programmed to do exactly what they're
00:29:38
doing like when we go in to do a robot shot with mia like obviously mia doesn't look like it doesn't have these
00:29:44
anthropomorphic features like it doesn't have arms and legs like like spot the dog or like the upright one wherever
00:29:50
whatever it's called atlas or atlas yeah um so it's mia so it just sits there holding a camera but it only does
00:29:58
exactly to the t what we just told it to do and only does it when we tell it to do it right
00:30:03
yes so even though it looks anthropomorphic like a dog with a neck dancing in front of me in
00:30:09
synchronization it would be very creepy if they decided to do that by themselves yeah but i know watching that that a
00:30:16
very skilled programmer is responsible for starting all the moves at the same time and building the moves so that it
00:30:22
looks like they're doing it in sync that's the most impressive part to me is someone had to decide like
00:30:27
on beat like how i'm gonna make this robot move to make it look like it's dancing so i see that i'm like wow good for the program like
00:30:33
that's awesome what i said in slack is will you be saying the same thing when it's dancing on your grave i do
00:30:40
i just don't i i see the move and i'm like wow that's very cool but there's there's no way it
00:30:47
does things it's not programmed to do and like that was a really funny michael reeves video we've talked about before
00:30:52
where he like programmed it to like find a bucket and pee in it because it had like you know all these
00:30:59
sensors he put attached to it like that's funny but yeah it only does what you're what it's probably yeah i mean i think like
00:31:04
the the i the dancing is fine right the dancing is great and i think that because they're so precise like michael
00:31:10
even said like this is cg right because their precision and their timing with each other is so
00:31:17
exact that it almost feels fake because human movement is so
00:31:23
not perfect yeah if you've ever seen like synchronized uh swimmers or synchronized dancing or whatever there's always just a tiny
00:31:29
little bit of yeah like and your subconscious will notice that yeah i wonder if they'd programmed a slight delay
00:31:36
or a slight variance if that would have been more realistic looking i don't know if they want the realism though it's like it's
00:31:42
like when spot is in his like default mode and he's doing the thing with his legs where he's just going back and forth
00:31:47
it like doesn't feel right it's really precise it's so precise yeah yeah i don't know i i i enjoy it
00:31:54
and like i i think these are great demos of like keeping yeah it keeps them in the news
00:32:00
it's good pr and it's just it's just more friendly things that the robot can clearly do
00:32:06
i think one of the things we were wondering about is like does does boston dynamics have the
00:32:12
biggest delta between how good their image can be and how bad their image could be
00:32:18
probably because because you know once in a while you get a weird headline of like here's the police using a robot dog
00:32:24
in new york city and you're like what i've seen this robot dance now it's like guarding like i don't like it i
00:32:29
don't like that like don't don't combine those things yeah so yeah i think they they keep themselves in a pretty good
00:32:34
eye yeah and it's it's clearly gets more capable every year like if you look if you scroll down on
00:32:40
their youtube channel look at their old videos yeah they probably those things like crap now they look
00:32:45
rough yeah in the past then no pun intended yeah yeah uh so i'm happy for them yeah no i
00:32:51
mean um and hyundai bought them now that's something i don't know if we talked about yet yeah that was the the
00:32:57
last weird part of this was uh it was a bbc and i was trying to figure out why on
00:33:03
earth they chose that um bts the the band the k-pop band
00:33:08
collabs with a bunch of other korean tech companies all the time they collab with samsung all the time yeah all the time and so that was the connection is uh
00:33:15
hyundai's korean hyundai just bought boston all of the company you're a stake in it
00:33:22
them if not probably a majority stakeholder yeah which is kind of crazy because like they were owned by
00:33:28
google for a while and then softbank bought them from google and now softbank sold it to button to hyundai
00:33:35
so now they're obviously pretty tight with hyundai they have 80 percent okay yeah so yeah that's so hyundai's
00:33:42
like yeah we'll do a bts dance video with the robots that's that's the natural thing we do to
00:33:48
celebrate because we live in the future now yeah so it's beautiful yeah yeah
00:33:54
uh i just okay just like don't put guns on the dogs and then we'll be okay
00:33:59
that's the only thing i think there's a department at boston dynamics in charge of making
00:34:04
sure no one does anything too crazy yeah sure yeah for now all right well now we have some we have
00:34:10
some patreon some creator economy news to talk about now i like to think i'm i'm pretty
00:34:16
plugged into the creator economy i've talked to a lot of fellow creators and obviously we we have internal dialogues and
00:34:22
discussions about this stuff all the time um but we have a note here that jack conti the ceo of patreon right
00:34:28
creator of patreon um did an interview with neil i on the decoder podcast i haven't
00:34:33
listened to it yet but you have but there are some notes about some things he brought up on the creator the creator economy and
00:34:39
stuff he talks about with uh the 30 apple tax yeah you want to break it down yeah so so if you've been following um the news
00:34:47
with especially with epic and apple uh basically apple will take 30 of any transaction
00:34:53
that is made uh through an app that is on their platform basically and they got mad at epic
00:35:00
because epic was trying to sell fortnite skins with like a workaround way so that apple
00:35:06
didn't get the 30 cut yep apple says well we're providing both the service the giant platform that
00:35:12
basically created the the entire app market and
00:35:18
also we have all these like security and safety protocols involved to make sure that you're safe and you don't get
00:35:23
malware and we have to protect our users and that just kind of created this whole conversation on like
00:35:29
what do platforms like what are they owed you know google takes like 30 as well
00:35:36
and so that kind of created this whole antitrust thing and now like we talked about earlier
00:35:41
microsoft made a point it was almost a digital with windows 11 on the windows store saying we're not going to take any money
00:35:48
if you have your own platform you know payment system yeah and now i feel and like facebook's doing the same thing like they just
00:35:53
released their own like newsletter service and they're doing a similar thing where like until you make a certain amount of money
00:35:59
it's gonna be you're gonna get all the revenue like so now it almost seems like people are competing for we're giving creators as much
00:36:07
possible um like revenue from what they're making as possible music to my ears yes yeah competition is
00:36:14
good competition is good that's actually a main point that jack was making um in the decoder podcast was neil i was
00:36:22
saying was talking about like this anti-trust stuff he's like what do you think about it and and jack was like well
00:36:28
you can kind of see like as more platforms compete with each other to give creators
00:36:34
more revenue because like creators are the content and
00:36:39
content is king and when you are providing all of the content for a service like
00:36:44
you think about twitter if twitter navi users it wouldn't be a product yeah i think about this all the time
00:36:50
uh we use the word platform yeah and when i think of a physical platform a platform is
00:36:56
raised up above the wrist and so something being on that platform gives it a visibility
00:37:02
it wouldn't have if it wasn't on the platform and so if you think of something like twitter for example as a platform
00:37:08
it's like okay yes if i just want to share my thoughts about
00:37:13
bacon whatever i could just write them and email them to a bunch of people and then hope they
00:37:19
share that and then you know it is what it is maybe only five people read it but if i
00:37:24
tweet it that platform could rise it to people searching for tweets about bacon or
00:37:29
people who follow my account or people who share things with other enthusiasts about bacon the point is the platform is benef
00:37:37
is a benefit to everyone on it yeah the other half of that is the platform is nothing without the
00:37:44
stuff on it yeah so if your twitter if no one tweets yeah it's not much about what is
00:37:49
what is your service exactly so you can build an amazing platform and discovery but you need
00:37:54
the content creators to actually complete the cycle and make this thing work so yeah youtube is
00:38:00
another huge example which is like totally if you want to make videos on the internet that people see there is
00:38:06
only really one place that you can guarantee the maximum number of people see it and that's youtube
00:38:12
and so youtube's in this phenomenal spot where it's like hey we are the reason people see your stuff
00:38:17
yeah but on the other hand creators of that content are the only reason youtube got to where it is today
00:38:23
yeah so i think about that dynamic a lot and i'm curious if you know how patreon sort of fits in as a puzzle piece of
00:38:29
that yeah i think the dynamic has shifted a lot uh first of all because this idea of
00:38:34
like creator economy didn't really used to be a thing this idea that like everyone is a creator everyone is unique
00:38:40
everyone is kind of a product the words have been said a lot in the last year or two yeah it's blown up a lot because i think in
00:38:47
the past these services saw themselves as like hey we're a product you're going to use
00:38:52
our product and like the creators or the ind or people that have twitter accounts are just using the product but there there wasn't
00:38:59
this mindset shift of like oh the people on your platform are making the platform make you money
00:39:06
right and so now because more people are become are coming online more people are
00:39:11
becoming more creative and like trying to market themselves as creatives and drawing more people to the
00:39:17
platform more creatives are kind of like demanding not demanding necessarily but like
00:39:24
needing more revenue from the things that they are helping the service they are helping lift up right yeah
00:39:30
like you said if youtube didn't have like these big channels then they wouldn't really be a platform
00:39:35
but anyway the whole patreon thing really interesting because patreon's been around for a very long time yep
00:39:40
um jack conti was very early to this and i've listened to like every interview that he's ever done i've listened i've
00:39:46
like watched all his videos and he's been like beating this drum forever that like eventually we're gonna
00:39:53
get to this point where everyone can make a living doing what they love because of scale because when you have
00:40:00
the internet and you have like a thousand people that like love what you do if they will give you a dollar a week
00:40:06
which is very little for them like we have this idea of like subscription service and like
00:40:12
over saturation slash anxiety with youtube premium and like hbo max and like
00:40:17
sure uh but we're kind of tailoring our lives now to everything being a subscription
00:40:22
service the cool thing though about are we doing that on purpose or is that just the way the world is i think it's just the way the world's shifting i
00:40:29
think there are benefits to it it's like if you subscribe to a cable subscription before but you only watch two channels
00:40:35
yeah why are you paying 30 when you can pay two dollars right you know so it's like so you're sort of you're we're breaking
00:40:40
down like more individualized subscriptions instead of just like you know instead of icloud plus or whatever it's called with
00:40:46
10 different services i'm going to pay for just the two or three things i need right and i'm overall going to benefit more from
00:40:52
penguins right right okay but now if you're like a super fan of something right and you like you want you just
00:40:57
want to absorb and eat up everything that that creator is making whether it's music whether it's videos whether it's
00:41:04
you know podcasts like anything you're able to throw a dollar five dollars at somebody
00:41:11
so you allow a lot yourself like a 300 budget for like subscription entertainment and it
00:41:18
because of scale because the internet is so massive and you can allot so many fans so quickly as a creator
00:41:25
even if only a thousand people you have a thousand core audience members which is fairly easy to get now right like
00:41:32
in the past that was very difficult now it's pretty easy to get a thousand people to give you one dollar like a month or a week
00:41:38
interesting yeah you can like make your living you can exist as a human because everyone is
00:41:43
trading money around in micro doses right i think that yeah the the fact that we
00:41:48
see so many more subscriptions out there now is probably a big reason for this like i think jack probably
00:41:53
seemed pretty early because back then it was like if i pay 10 a month for netflix
00:42:00
why would i give any one person five dollars right what how could they possibly
00:42:05
create that much value for that one netflix is ten dollars a month right but now there's so many different things that we
00:42:11
pay a subscription fee for not just cable but like i pay for youtube tv i also pay for youtube premium i also
00:42:18
pay for spotify that's like nine ten dollars a month i also pay for this and that and there's als there's
00:42:24
like all these different subscriptions that i think deliver their value basically per month
00:42:29
and a lot of those may be creators whose youtube channels i've subscribed to and have joined the the club on
00:42:35
yeah like i paid them a couple bucks a month yeah and that's because i'm not just supporting them but i'm getting more out of it
00:42:40
and so now there are so many subscriptions happening that it's a more natural reaction to be
00:42:46
totally willing to pay one to five dollars a month to an individual because
00:42:51
we're just doing that all the time now yeah so yeah that 300 bucks a month budget probably seemed a little high back in the day
00:42:58
today probably seems pretty real because if you break it down like in the past like a lot of that was going towards your
00:43:04
cable bill and you only use two of those channels and if you can break down everything into just like
00:43:10
micro payments you're gonna still be paying a similar amount of money but it's just more tailored to you there's a more personal like i am
00:43:17
helping this creator make a living like it feels very personal it's a connection there there's a connection
00:43:22
there um and and also i think people are starting to realize like coffee costs five dollars and i get that
00:43:28
every day you know and it's like true what what is the value of one cup of like just not getting a coffee one day
00:43:35
and then i can pay five creators yeah it's so funny it's like pretty dope when you like compare the value of things like if i pay 10 a month for netflix and i
00:43:42
pay how much if you if you buy a five dollar coffee twice a week every month that's
00:43:47
40 that's that's a lot more than that oh yeah what am i getting out of this coffee exactly so yeah maybe netflix seems
00:43:54
underpriced now instead of overpriced yeah the point is yeah we the creator economy thing i think
00:43:59
you know i've i don't really talk about it that much but i feel like the
00:44:04
the scale of things the way they've ballooned over time makes things like youtube feel more like
00:44:10
a fabric that we exist in rather than like a structure of a platform where now
00:44:16
uh yeah anyone who shares something that they love or something that they make can
00:44:22
accumulate enough people who will just be within this fabric and drawn to that thing yeah that they can eventually make that
00:44:30
what they do yeah that's it like before like tv super structured to me like there are
00:44:36
channels and there are shows and there are ad slots that support the channels and the shows and
00:44:41
everything is very much like what's on amazon it's built a certain way yeah and if you want to be a tv news anchor and that's
00:44:49
what you want to do then there's a path you follow and then if you land here at this company then
00:44:55
you can you can be part of this structure exactly where on youtube it's like i don't really have
00:45:01
to pick a channel or pick a news network i can just do what i want to do yeah and this fabric will sort of find you
00:45:07
instead of being siloed into these things so we're all kind of connected in that way um just reachability too like remember
00:45:13
when gangnam style hit it was the first billion dollar view video billion views yep sorry not billion dollars first video
00:45:21
with a billion views and it was fast too it was like a month or two and but but the when that happened all the headlines
00:45:28
were like oh my gosh a video on the internet can get a billion views how many videos have a
00:45:33
billion views now a lot a lot because you've got this like growing like there's a lot of kids now
00:45:39
that are just very online and they like they use youtube as their main entertainment source and
00:45:45
like you said it's become almost a fabric of society and i was thinking about this the other day like twitter
00:45:50
now is part of the fabric of society like there are major like nations make statements on twitter
00:45:56
that can affect local global geopolitics and like all this stuff yeah crypto crypt
00:46:02
[Laughter] um okay but bring bringing it back to the point of this new story the point of
00:46:07
the decoder episode that kind of like made the reason this made headlines was that okay so patreon is a very old
00:46:14
platform right it's been around for a very long time it was like really early youtube is like when
00:46:19
patreon got started and the cool thing is like patreon got started just a little background because jack conti and his wife are musicians
00:46:27
and i i watched their videos yeah they were on youtube yeah yeah and they wanted to fund their
00:46:32
band with they wanted their band to be like their full-time thing but they're like how do we do this
00:46:38
and jack had created this music video that he put like blood sweat and tears into he spent all of his money in his
00:46:43
bank account to make this music video where he was like inside the millennium falcon like he built a cockpit in his
00:46:48
garage all of this stuff and he was just like this is so unsustainable because i got he got a million views on youtube with
00:46:55
that video which is amazing but he got like 300 in revenue and he spent multiple thousands so he
00:47:02
was like i want to do music full time how do i do this and he came up with this idea of
00:47:07
creator economy that it's he was so early to it but the point is he was so early and it was very early in youtube
00:47:13
that like when you sign up for a patreon page you're not generally in the patreon app doing
00:47:21
discovery right because like a lot of the reason that that apple or google says you owe us 30
00:47:27
is because they're get they're creating the discovery platform whereas patreon is such a different
00:47:32
thing because when you subscribe to a patreon account it's not discovery based you
00:47:38
already know that you really like this creator you're willing to give them three five ten dollars a month because
00:47:44
you wanna see extra content from them you wanna have that personal relationship with them and that's the only reason you're on that site right
00:47:50
now exactly it's it's not a discovery based platform at all it's like i love this person i want to give them
00:47:55
my money and so because of that generally people signed up for patreon accounts on the web
00:48:01
and so you would go on a website you go to the specific patreon page and you would say hey i'm gonna sign up
00:48:06
i'm gonna give you five dollars a month now the they do have an app obviously
00:48:12
um but what neil i asked him was like so is apple taking 30
00:48:19
of every patreon subscription because like you know if people like sign up in the
00:48:24
app and uh because there was this whole elite battle with spotify
00:48:29
where and netflix spotify and netflix like for a bit spotify offered hey if you
00:48:36
sign up for our account in the app it's 12.99 a month if you sign up on spotify.com it's 9.99 a month right
00:48:42
literally that's the difference and netflix i believe still doesn't have you still can't sign
00:48:48
up for a netflix account in the netflix app right you have to go on the web right for that reason so neil i was like
00:48:54
is apple taking 30 like how are you getting around that and he was like um
00:48:59
no and so neil i was like that's weird like why haven't they come after you yet
00:49:05
because there's actually this other platform um that is similar to patreon uh
00:49:11
where apple did go after them recently and they're a very small company
00:49:16
so it's kind of weird that like patreon hasn't been hit with this yet yeah um jack conti has i don't i don't
00:49:23
know if he's ready to face that legal challenge like when eli brought it up he seemed like a bit like i don't that's not really
00:49:30
something i want to deal with because i just want to like help people make money right um so
00:49:35
so yeah it's interesting and it's basically going to be this thing of like how hard is is apple gonna crack down
00:49:42
on all platforms you know gotcha interesting yeah yeah i think part of
00:49:48
what we were saying too about that of like okay patreon is not necessarily a discovery platform yeah this is
00:49:54
something uh people talk about with only fans too it's like when you get to only fans someone else
00:50:00
funneled you there yeah it's not like you're i guess i don't know but i'm imagining people aren't browsing around only fans
00:50:06
looking for things they're not browsing around patreon finding things it's because someone sent them to their patreon yeah
00:50:12
so i wonder if the the ideal future of something like patreon is actually being more a part of the
00:50:19
fabric of this discovery that we have on youtube for example now i don't know if they ever want to be
00:50:25
part of youtube but wouldn't it be ideal if you could say hey if you would like to support
00:50:30
what i do there's a there's a couple buttons right below this video for you to just immediately like become a member
00:50:38
obviously youtube has channel memberships already but if you can really be off though never really took off and i don't
00:50:43
i i don't know if there's any good reason for it because it's kind of the same thing yeah you've put tiers in now different price levels
00:50:50
different rewards but it's the same thing where it's like you can you can be a part of that discovery because youtube will send
00:50:57
you places based on where it thinks you want to go yeah and then when you arrive there you'll have someone going hey if you like more
00:51:03
of what i do you can get more you can support me here yeah yeah that seems like actually an ideal
00:51:08
future i don't really know why it didn't take off yeah it's strange patreon specifically at the very end of
00:51:14
the podcast you mentioned that they specifically don't really want they don't want to be a platform i think that's the difference
00:51:19
is that like like you said they're not a discovery platform they want to be like just a way for
00:51:25
creators to get paid and because of that they don't actually host content they don't host video they don't host uh
00:51:32
like a mail delivery service so like they specifically partner with these other platforms these other
00:51:39
services that creators are already using so when you have patreon exclusive video content it's hosted through a vimeo
00:51:46
plugin when you have patreon exclusive uh music it's hosted through like a soundcloud
00:51:52
plugin and you have patreon exclusive email list it's hosted through a mailchimp plugin like they do not
00:51:59
really host content they're just a way for people to get paid and they wanted to do that specifically because
00:52:06
it's as soon as you start hosting content that all of this stuff gets murky right right there's a reason that like
00:52:12
there's all that um there's a lot of discussion that like twitter needs to be uh held accountable for what its users
00:52:18
post and that whole like section the legal part yeah yeah yeah that's the whole thing and so i think they're just
00:52:23
trying to avoid that because they're just like we really just want people to get paid yeah i also think they might be incentivized
00:52:30
if if that was a part of their like new business that say oh we'll do exclusive content built into patreon
00:52:36
it would actually be good for their business to shuffle people around and discover other patreon things that
00:52:42
they can also subscribe to yeah so you'd want people to you eventually become a site that wants people to stay on patreon as long as
00:52:49
possible yeah to make patreon as much money as possible because you're going and bouncing around to different creators on patreon
00:52:55
rather than just like this very direct relationship between the creator and one patreon site yeah i
00:53:01
do think they understand that it's very difficult to be like you might like this person do you want to give them a
00:53:07
monthly fee of five dollars yeah it's tough like we grew up in this era where
00:53:12
like as soon as the iphone and the like ipod touch came out most apps were free so our generation is
00:53:20
not used to paying for online content the music thing is the number one is like the biggest shift i've seen i
00:53:26
remember back in the day on itunes it was like i a new album comes out and it's like all right
00:53:31
the whole album is 10 bucks but i only like three songs from the album and i'm going to buy these three songs for 99
00:53:37
cents each and they're in my library and i make the tough choice of never listening to any of the rest of those songs again
00:53:42
which is a horrible idea by the way yeah but oftentimes the first the songs you hate the most that's true end up being the best songs
00:53:48
on the album that's true but now like if you bring that up to like my you know teenage cousins they're like you
00:53:54
paid for one song are you kidding you paid a dollar yeah and yeah so like now they're just so used to
00:54:00
being subscribed to apple music subscribe to spotify where you have access to a library for a fee and that's
00:54:06
the service you get for paying every month and the second you stop paying guess what nothing is available to you
00:54:12
yeah and that's totally fine and that's a that's a version that everyone is just basically accepted at this point yeah um
00:54:19
so yeah i think we're just kind of building off of that like new philosophy of like yeah this service provides value to me and the
00:54:26
second it doesn't anymore i can just not have it anymore yeah which i i think
00:54:31
is a good way forward there are a lot of people that are very against not owning what you oh yeah what you view what you listen to
00:54:38
i totally totally understand that as well but in this world that is moving like so
00:54:44
internet focused that you don't really need an office and a lot of for a lot of jobs anymore
00:54:49
you can live anywhere you want just being able to have as much stuff digital as possible so
00:54:55
that you don't have as much physical weighing you down i think is a great thing yeah here's a yeah here's a random question
00:55:01
to tie this up for a subscription mindset yeah i was gonna phrase it one way i'm just gonna
00:55:06
go to the extreme okay would you pay a subscription for access to your car
00:55:13
so instead of buying your car would you pay 25 a month for a tesla model 3.
00:55:21
you mean a lease it's less than a lease because you're just paying for access to it
00:55:26
yeah it'd probably be more it would be way more than 25 a month let's say let's say 200 bucks a month for access
00:55:34
to the car and the second that you don't pay it anymore you don't have it but you can cancel at any time yeah you also
00:55:39
have to pay insurance would that be worth it to you a thousand percent i i mean personally
00:55:45
uh for people who know me i have major commitment issues so even getting an apartment was like
00:55:52
extremely stressful for me because i love the idea of just like one day i'm like you know
00:55:57
what today i want to live in iceland oh so it's an advantage for you to not have to own it oh yeah oh i see owning big physical things is
00:56:04
scary because i was going to say like you own the car would you pay 20 bucks a month for autopilot and if you ever stop paying
00:56:10
then you don't have it anymore and that's what they're gonna do that's what they're gonna do and people really don't like that it's like i
00:56:15
own my car it has software on it i own the car i use the software period yeah don't
00:56:20
make me pay over and over again for the thing i already own and bought from you but yeah if you just take it all the way
00:56:27
to the extreme of like well you don't own your car but you can use it like you own it until you stop
00:56:32
paying yeah that would be fine i'd be fine with not owning my car i don't think a lot of people would i
00:56:37
don't think any everyone would the autopilot thing it again it's gonna depend on i know
00:56:43
this is a little like we're going over here but this is like a little bit like autopilot right now cost ten thousand
00:56:49
dollars yep if they made it 30 bucks a month you're basically weighing like
00:56:55
how long do i think i'm going to have this car is this a bet is it a better deal for me to have it temporarily yeah
00:57:01
will it affect the resale value all this it's a math thing but i i do think that a lot of people
00:57:07
are okay with like paying very little amounts monthly instead of paying a lot
00:57:12
now and then having this physical burden on them yeah yeah makes sense so anyway all right
00:57:18
well i think that's a good place to end it we sort of talked about a spectrum of things we hit the boston dynamics thing we had xperia one mark
00:57:25
three we talked windows 11. yeah that's actually a lot of topics it is kind of a solid variety i didn't really have very
00:57:30
good segues today because they're they're just not really related in any good ways um but david
00:57:36
thanks for joining me on the podcast if you want to find other things david does where should they find you
00:57:41
um well my twitter is at durvida mill on twitter that's pretty much my main platform where i say a lot of things um
00:57:48
it's part of the fabric of your existence fabric of my personality uh obviously you can also
00:57:54
find things i do on here and then uh davidamel.com it's my website but it's like you know i
00:58:01
update that every now and then word you'll be back for sure yes awesome yes all right
00:58:06
thanks for listening thanks for subscribing on the waveform youtube channel if you haven't already and if you leave any comments
00:58:12
make sure you leave suggestions for things we should talk about or even do in future episodes that's been it thanks
00:58:19
for watching waveform is produced by adam molina we are partnered with studio 71 and our intro outro music is produced by vane
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