00:00:00
I mean, you don't you don't bet in blackjack, but it's not gambling. You don't pick an amount and say, "I'm
00:00:05
betting this much." You just Yes, you do. That is how you play. That is exactly how you play blackjack. I thought you just play until until you
00:00:11
were like, "No, I want to stop." And then when you decide you stop, you every single hand you you put more money down and you say, "I am putting this much
00:00:17
money." Oh, then never mind. [Music] Yo, what is up people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. and I'm David. And
00:00:30
okay, this week we've got a hilarious Pixel 10 leak. It's happening again. We're back. The cycle repeats itself every year. Uh but we also have a really
00:00:41
impressive and funny Dyson product. And also we've got the CEO of the browser company joining us later in this episode
00:00:46
to help us figure out what's going on with Arc and the wide world of browsers cuz there's there's a lot happening. Uh
00:00:53
but first, I just want to thank you guys for subscribing. This is a subscriber only episode. We fixed the bug from last week where subscri n subscribers could
00:01:00
watch. So, we appreciate you. Thanks for tuning in. If you're watching, you are subscribed. Hopefully, that bug doesn't
00:01:05
happen again. Uh, also, uh, there's a quick survey we want to ask you to fill out if you have some time. The podcast
00:01:12
network we're a part of, Vox, is looking to figure out some extra information about what's working well in the podcast
00:01:18
space, what's not, what you like about Waveform, what you don't. So, we'll have a link in the description if you have some time, you want to check that out
00:01:23
and be super helpful to the rest of the podcast on our network. So, thank you for that. Yeah. Anyway, um we should
00:01:29
jump right in. Andrew has a tech support question. I kind of want to chime in, too, but I'll let you break it down.
00:01:34
Cool. Ever since I've updated to 1 UI7, I think I mentioned briefly that I have really been enjoying Which phone do you
00:01:39
have, by the way? Uh S24. Regular S24. Regular S24. Okay. So, I've been enjoying 1 UI7. I did do the like notification change, so they're all together. Um I don't love the vertical
00:01:51
scrolling app drawer. I was really used to my pages. I know you can do it, but then it takes them out of alphabetical order. Anyways, I've been enjoying it,
00:01:58
but I've been having this issue for like the last two weeks. My wireless charger at home overnight, I keep waking up at
00:02:06
like 20% battery. Mhm. And I cannot tell exactly what's going on. You didn't get
00:02:11
fully refreshed when you slept. No. Yeah. My eight sleep is just like maybe you should try falling asleep.
00:02:18
My phone I put it on, right? the same charger I've been using since I've had since before I've had this phone. It has always worked every single night because I have a MagSafe case and it's a MagSafe
00:02:29
charger. So, I don't have to worry about it getting knocked off the charger at all. Yeah. I put it on and I fall asleep
00:02:34
and I wake up and it's not charged. And it doesn't happen every night, but I would say in the last week, five of the
00:02:40
nights didn't charge. It's really bad. That's 57s. Yeah. The In fact, the last two nights I've gotten it because I've
00:02:46
put it on the charger. Sometimes it says it's charging and then like within the next 30 seconds
00:02:52
it'll stop charging which I think is what's happened a couple times. The last few nights I've put it on and like
00:02:57
watched it like a hawk and then like we'll watch a YouTube video and then I'll tap it and make sure it's still
00:03:02
charging and then I'll go to sleep knowing it'll then it then I wake up at 100%. That's anxietyinducing. It's not
00:03:08
that horrible. So if you had just told me this story in isolation, I would have gone I don't know. I think something
00:03:14
just might be wrong with your phone. something probably just went loose in the back and maybe you need to have it repaired or something like that. But
00:03:20
I've also been daily driving a Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra. I also updated to 1 UI with the latest software update. And I also lately have started having more
00:03:34
times that I wake up and my phone hasn't charged. And I also have a bedside wireless charger. It's kind of annoying
00:03:39
that there's no wires. So I I some phones that I test don't have wireless charging and I'm just whatever. But I
00:03:44
have a wireless charger next to my bed. So I put the phone on the wireless charger and I usually do a pretty good job of placing it right where I know the
00:03:50
wireless charging coil is. And then I wake up and it's charged. And probably two out of the last five nights it
00:03:56
hasn't. Especially the last two in a row. And that to me is more than a coincidence that we both have a Samsung phone. We just both updated the software. And you yours can't be an
00:04:07
alignment issue because you have the magnets. Yeah. And so I would have thought mine is just a coincidental alignment issue, but now I'm I'm
00:04:13
starting to try to think deeper. It's weird. I've tried I haven't tried with too many other chargers. I tried with our Ridge power bank and it like wasn't
00:04:21
working and then I kind of got it to work a little bit. Um that may have been a pre-production unit, so I'm not 100%
00:04:26
sure. Maybe the the power bank was just like being a little weird. I have one of those like Nomad full desk ones and when
00:04:34
I put it on that where it's like completely covered, it seems to work every time. So, it's it's enough of an
00:04:39
issue where I think like it could be user error somewhere. It just feels so weird that a charger with two magnets
00:04:45
that's literal only purpose is to make sure it's not knocked off. That has worked for me for over a year. I update
00:04:52
and then it stops working. I think what we should do cuz two is still not a huge sample size. I think we should pass this
00:04:58
on to the audience. Anyone who has been washing dishes, listening to this, if you have also had this happen, if you
00:05:04
have a Samsung phone with the latest software update and have started having wireless charging issues, let us know in the comments section. I will say David searching it right now. I'm using AI
00:05:16
mode. Oo, I'm sure that'll nail it. Um, it's not helpful. The only thing I found
00:05:21
when I've searched online is there were a few people in 1 UI7 having issues with fast charging through a wire. It's like
00:05:28
they're not getting the full speeds that it should have been. And that was only a couple little forum posts. So, I don't
00:05:34
know specifics. I'm not totally sure if it's just a weird bug. I I've been trying to figure out if it's like I put
00:05:40
my phone on and I like tap the screen and is for some reason it waking up and then going back to sleep doing something
00:05:46
weird. Yeah, it's it doesn't make me feel confident waking up that I'll have battery charge then. Well, there are two people on the Samsung website that say after the 1 UI7 update, it says it's
00:05:57
charging, but it does not actually increase the battery percentage. Yeah, I've had I had consecutive nights.
00:06:03
One where I started with 19% and woke up with 19%. Another where I knew this had
00:06:09
happened the previous night, so I specifically lined it up perfectly and made sure it was charging, went to
00:06:15
sleep, woke up the next morning 40%. So either it charged super slowly or it charged up to 40 and then stopped charging. The one time I did look at it, I looked at the battery like charging
00:06:26
graph and I saw it go on the night and for like two bars it was charging then stopped and then like at fiveish or six
00:06:34
there was bar. So I was wondering if it was the like because I don't have alarm set on my phone. Was it is it trying to
00:06:40
optimize for the like don't charge it until x amount of time till later? But since I don't have an alarm it didn't
00:06:46
want to do it. Um, but I never used alarms on the last update. Maybe it got I don't know. Yeah, let us know in the comments if you are anywhere near where we are with our Samsung. You haven't used alarms? I use it on my watch. So,
00:06:59
we fully converted you to not using your alarms as your to-do list. Oh, yeah. I don't use alarms at all for anything anymore. As a we did
00:07:09
it for podcast saves lives. We fixed him. Well, lucky for you, uh, Samsung is already testing the 1 UI 8 beta in select countries, right? Yeah, Android 16. Um,
00:07:22
they're emphasizing multimmoto capabilities. It's only available in the US, UK, Germany, and South Korea. I
00:07:28
believe we're in the United States, so you may be able to do this, but you would have to have an S25. You sure
00:07:34
about that? I don't know. We might be Canada pretty soon. Anyway, um so maybe look into that, but you can't because it's only for a third time.
00:07:46
Got him. Why don't you try this? Just kidding. You thought speaking of uh things that sometimes charge you you put some Dyson event on here and
00:07:57
I have not I did not see the Dyson event. I did have a friend randomly text me and say, "Hey, you see that new Dyson
00:08:03
though?" And I was like, "What the hell?" Okay. No, it's cool. Okay. What? I'm gonna Did either of you watch
00:08:09
it? I posted it in our Instagram chat. No, that's okay. It's just a clip. It's fine. I I'm I'm still on the minimal
00:08:16
phone. I don't have Instagram. Good excuse. Good excuse. Your phone also freaked out when you picked it up. It
00:08:22
does that, you know. So, are people really that hyped about vacuum cleaners? Okay, first of all, this one, this is
00:08:27
pretty cool. This one doesn't suck. it. But doesn't it? I think this is simultaneously really cool and makes zero sense at all at the same time, which seems pretty part for the Corsair Dyson, even though I love my Dyson stick
00:08:40
vacuum. Um, I'm going to play this and kind of explain what's going on, but then you can see what I'm talking about.
00:08:46
So, he's showing on stage this 38mm motor that's inside their products cuz like we all know Dyson, they're not
00:08:52
really bladeless. It's inside the handle instead, right? So, like these are their small handheld hair dryers with a little
00:08:57
motor inside of the handle. Sure. and it's only 38 mm. And then they launched this new product with that same motor, which winds up being the wildest stick
00:09:08
vacuum you could ever imagine that he pulls out of this like pipe behind him and that is the entire vacuum.
00:09:16
He like sticks a vacuum head on it and it is I mean a pole at best. Wait, this is the coolest part. This was part of the set. He It was like part of the set. It was there the whole time. And no one
00:09:29
noticed because of how thin it is. Pretty bottomless. It's like in Willy Wonkco where he's like, "You thought this was factory?" No, it's candy. It's
00:09:35
like, "You thought this was set?" Nope. More vacuum. So, where does the stuff go? That's exact. After you think this
00:09:42
is really cool, then the first thing you go is, can it hold any dirt that it vacuum? Yeah. It's kind of like how most
00:09:47
Dysons are amazing, but they last 20 minutes. I love my vacuum. My Dyson lasts a solid
00:09:53
40 minutes. Just just, you know, exciting extra. And that's I don't I never vacuum for more than 40 minutes.
00:09:58
So fair enough. That's fair enough. That's probably why it designed it that way. This is like So it shows some other cool things about how like the new head
00:10:04
can like show dirt with this whatever light and that if it does hair, it actually rolls all the hair up, shoots
00:10:10
it to the side, and then you re roll over it so it doesn't get caught in all of the So it blades it detects hair.
00:10:19
It's just like the way the blades are set up in this cone shape. It filters them out to the outside. But anyways, I
00:10:24
just thought it was wild that they have a motor that's powerful enough that's that small that can power an entire
00:10:29
vacuum. Where do they where do they put the AI? I'm pretty sure it's got hair detector, right? You know what's funny? Dyson, you know, remember that Vision Pro app where you could like vacuum and it would show you where you vacuumed
00:10:40
already and put like coins or whatever. I scrolled down on Dyson's site and they have literally a mount that you put your
00:10:47
phone attached to your vacuum cleaner so you can see where you vacuumed before with AR. Okay, this company is wild in
00:10:55
the best way. I want to talk to them. I agree. That's so genius. I mean, yeah, James Dyson is like the son of the guy
00:11:03
that invented the company, right? They're on one. This is the pencil vac. This event was seemed pretty short and
00:11:09
it was like really chill. He was just like, "This is it. This is what it is." Okay, cool. Like look at it and that's
00:11:16
it. Like available later this year. Why do they have a keynote event for a vacuum cleaner? It's more than just a
00:11:21
vacuum. hair. Also, James Dyson founded Dyson. It's It's He's the guy. Oh, he's still
00:11:27
there to give them This is him. Craziest Wikipedia one of the craziest Wikipedia
00:11:33
uh page introductions. James Dyson is a British inventor, industrial designer, farmer, and businessman. Yeah, there's a
00:11:40
really good there's a really good How I Built This episode about Dyson. To give them credit, we don't really talk about any other vacuum company cuz
00:11:51
they're not that interesting. Yeah, Dyson is making a weird category we don't usually talk about. Kind of interesting. I mean, they have tiny motors and they just put them in stuff. Vacuums makes a lot of sense. They also
00:12:02
did hair hair dryers. They also did that that fan, the bladeless fan. They did the headphones with the mask that gives you co. They also did the worst part of So, yeah, they they they're out here
00:12:13
innovating. They do keynotes. They had that that is kind of the pinnacle tech keynote like thing you can do is go that product that's a top secret. It's been
00:12:24
in front of you this whole time. Boom. Part of the set. That's like every tech company wants to do something like that.
00:12:31
That's true. So shout out to Dyson. Dyson's got this weird thing on our podcast where they left like a sour
00:12:36
taste in our mouth when we tried they wanted to do that sponsor thing a long time ago. But also, do every single one
00:12:43
of us have a Dyson vacuum and like it? Yes, I think so. And I bought it. I have a Bissell with money. How dare you? I've heard of that. I I will say I've owned a
00:12:55
few Dyson clones and they're just as it No, no, they're just as good. Oh, they're just as good. Not only are they just as good, but a lot of them have articulating ball joints that my Dyson does not have that
00:13:07
actually kind of made them a little better. Good. I have those two, but it kind of feels kind of sounds like like
00:13:13
the iPhone in 2007 where like other phones came out and immediately built better features and other things, but
00:13:19
like then there's just the iPhone and the other phones and there's this dynamic. It feels like Dyson is Apple in
00:13:25
this case and then everyone else has built potentially better products in certain ways, but the Dyson is still the
00:13:31
Dyson. Yeah. Like they took a existing product and they did it in a new interesting way that is like worse in
00:13:37
some ways but the industrial design is so interesting that's kind of worth it. Also they're making robots soon. Oh
00:13:43
really? They announced like a robot initiative. They're putting a ton of money into it. They make motors.
00:13:48
Exactly. They make motors. It's kind of like how uh Tesla's not a car company. Dyson's not a vacuum company.
00:13:54
And I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm really joking. There's a section of Twitter that was like, "Yes, David. Yes. Keep
00:14:00
going." I'm really joking. Yeah. Um, okay. Well, speaking of, um, do it. Do it. Things that are all being put in one place. Kind of like when you vacuum things up and it goes into one little
00:14:14
container. Natural. Apple is going to put all the games in one place on your phone. Got games on your phone? Apple
00:14:21
does. So currently Apple has Game Center which is sort of a little thing where you can have little high scores and it plugs into Apple Arcade which is their paid service that allows you to have a
00:14:32
bunch of games effectively well for free but it's part of the subscription obviously and that is both great and
00:14:40
horrible for some other reasons. But regardless it's kind of separated, right? Like you can download the games
00:14:46
on the app store because there's an Apple arcade section of the app store. But then the whole Apple system, the
00:14:54
game center system is like a really old system. Game Center launched like on the iPod touch. iPod touch. Yeah. Yeah. So
00:15:01
it's old. It like looks old. It's, you know, it's not newer. With for the last few years, Apple has been really pushing
00:15:07
this whole like you can run highfidelity Resident Evil games on your iPhone, right? And so they want to basically highlight Apple Arcade more because they're trying to push services because
00:15:19
their devices are getting less and less popular, like they're selling less iPhones, etc. So, there is a rumor that
00:15:26
at WWC in a couple of weeks they're going to launch a new dedicated gaming app which not only sort of has
00:15:33
everything that Game Center had, but it's sort of like a Xbox style launcher on your phone where all of your games will be inside. It'll have all the like,
00:15:44
oh, your friends are online, here's your high scores, here's all this information. And then also currently
00:15:49
when you're on the app store, you had just have to go find games on the app store and then download them. You can download theoretically, this is based on
00:15:56
this leak, all of the games on the App Store through this game app. So, it's just sort of a consolidated place for you to do gaming on your iPhone.
00:16:08
This is This sort of makes sense because Apple's been really like pushing a lot of gaming features on not only iPhones,
00:16:14
but also Macs for the last couple of years. I could see this also being pushed to Mac and then they have an
00:16:20
opportunity to compete with like Steam in some sort of way, right? Especially if they finally get developers to
00:16:26
actually develop for Mac, which they do. They've been really trying to do that for a long time. But with their new like porter like porting toolkit that allows you to port games to Mac really easily,
00:16:38
I think that they're hoping that developers are actually going to start doing that. They only announced that like a year or so ago. So, I think at
00:16:44
this WWDC, we're going to see how many people have actually started using this toolkit. All six of them. All six of
00:16:51
them. Yeah. I think it makes sense to put it all in one. I also think there's an being able to see what your friends
00:16:57
are playing is opens up a new opportunity to potentially find new games by being like, "Oh, David's
00:17:02
playing this. I've never heard of that. Let me go look." I'm hoping there's a way to be like, "Let me see that game in now the not the app store, but the new
00:17:10
game store, whatever you want to call it." Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys play games? Like any like take a second because you usually don't think like okay I don't play like COD or like Fortnite on my
00:17:21
phone but do you play but you can now by the way cuz Fortnite's back on the Fortnite is back on the a few days ago. But do you even play like random
00:17:27
mindless Candy Crush type any other type of game? I literally my entire life have
00:17:32
never had games on my phone at all. In the last few months, there are two games that I now play on my phone, which are
00:17:39
Pokemon Trading Card Game Pocket, which Andrew abandoned me on. Yeah, cuz I'm tired of vacuum cleaner Pokemon.
00:17:47
Yeah. See, but you know, it's a slot machine. If only it was a Dyson Pokemon. Dyson. Daimon. And then I also play Bellatro, which is not gambling. Just
00:17:57
letting you know. It's not gambling. No, Bolatro. I want to try it. It's really, really good. It won game of the year
00:18:03
last year. Yeah, it did. It's gambling. It's not gambling. You don't use real money at all. That doesn't mean it's not
00:18:09
gambling. There's something bad about saying you don't use real money. Well, you don't even money. You don't use
00:18:15
money at all. I would just say you don't use money at all. You don't even bet. You don't even bet. I mean, you don't you don't bet in blackjack, but it's You
00:18:23
don't pick an amount and say, "I'm betting this much." You do. You keep playing. That is how you play. That is exactly how you play blackjack. I
00:18:28
thought you just play until until you're like, "No, I want to stop." stop and then when you decide you stop you every single hand you you put more money down
00:18:35
and you say I am putting this much money oh then never mind but I do have another note casino game I do want to say uh I
00:18:43
read last month in Macash a stat that really surprised me about blotro no about gaming and iPhones uh because uh according to Macash and they did not
00:18:55
cite where they got this data from best huge disclaimer in this article They do not say the study that this came from. Uh, but according to Macash, 86% of
00:19:08
iPhone users do use their iPhones to play games. I would not be surprised. I believe that's how Apple makes almost
00:19:14
all of their revenue. But what's interesting is that's 10% higher than Android users. Yeah. Yeah. Because Android has a lot of like there is some
00:19:25
fraction of Android phones that is not even designed to ever play games. like they're just a budget phone that that
00:19:31
gets you from point A to point B and that's fine. And there is also a specific section of Android phones
00:19:37
that's just designed to play games, which is why it kind of seems a little weird, but there are gaming phones out there and you're like, "Oh, if I'm a
00:19:42
gamer, it's Android, but game Android is this whole wide world where iPhones and
00:19:48
like regular people, you might be shocked how many people play Farmville today." Yeah. Like it's it's just
00:19:53
everywhere. Interesting. Google just removed like millions of apps from the Play Store. And I think the difference
00:19:58
is that Apple always had this sheen of like we have this process where we test a lot of apps. Like it's a big deal when an app gets pushed to the app store and it ends up having malware in it because
00:20:10
Apple is supposed to have this like really like really hardcore process where they approve or don't approve
00:20:15
apps. Google has more been like sort of this wild west kind of thing where you can just like publish apps pretty
00:20:22
easily. Yeah. From experience when we had panels go to both the Play Store and the App Store. The experience with the
00:20:27
Play Store was like, "Submit, it's instant approval." And the App Store was like, "Here are these extremely specific
00:20:33
things we'd like you to tweak." I was like, "Wow." So, I think that when you buy a game on the App Store, like the
00:20:39
idea is that the games are supposed to be higher quality. They're supposed to be less like spammy. You get all those Instagram ads where it's just like some
00:20:45
mindless game where you and it's a whole thing. Um, so I think that people assume the
00:20:52
games on the iPhone are going to be higher quality and that's probably why they're more willing to spend money on them. Yeah. Also, I think the
00:20:59
demographic in general of people who use iPhones primarily is like they spend more money in general. Here's a fringe definition of gaming on your phone because when I open this app, the gaming
00:21:10
mode fires up. You're going to say the same thing I've been wanting to bring up and I think it's so funny. Does Wordle
00:21:16
count as gaming on your phone? I think so. Yeah, with the little game optimization booster
00:21:21
tab you're gaming right now, bro. I'm like kind of under the additional GPU cores. That's exactly just like green, yellow, green, yellow, green. It's like
00:21:32
Yeah, it's it's optimized. Yeah, I was looking at my phone to be like, what is that service thing called? But it's so
00:21:38
funny when it's like, I want to play Wordle for 5 minutes. You want to optimize? I think that counts towards the 80s something%. Oh, for sure. The
00:21:45
New York Times app alone probably accounts for like a That's a lot of games right there. Yeah. Crosswords. Does your mom want to do crosswords?
00:21:50
She's a gamer. She's a gamer. Hardcore gamer. All right. Last thing that we got. Uh Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm
00:21:57
going to need a better Hold on. segue. Speaking of uh things that are more or less popular than you thought they were, Pixel 10 more or less
00:22:08
things that exist. Things that are Speaking of things, things that are outside of your originally perceived level of popularity. What? Pixel phone is All right. Okay.
00:22:22
That Okay. Well, come on. Let's proceed. I'll get to you. Let's Pixel 10. Look, Pixel in in our world, Pixel is is very
00:22:29
well known and everyone knows about the Pixel. But outside of our world, I get your transition. Outside of our world,
00:22:34
the Pixel is like a 5enter type phone. Like not a lot of people use a Pixel. However, there is one thing you can
00:22:40
count on with the Pixel every year, which is that months before it comes out, it will leak in its entirety. Every
00:22:47
single thing about it, from the specs to the design to the new features to what it looks, everything will be. I have the 10 right here. Honestly, would not be
00:22:55
shocked at all. reason you're talking about the Pixel, calling your plumber. It leaked. Nice. So, Pixel 10, uh, there
00:23:03
was this tweet that kind of went viral. I think the original might have been deleted, but it's been blasted everywhere now. Um, which is somebody
00:23:10
was going out for a walk and was walking by what looked like a little commercial shoot and they looked closely and it was
00:23:16
just a Pixel 10 commercial being shot. And the reason they knew that is because they zoomed all the way in and looked at
00:23:21
it and it was clearly a new Pixel. No. No, I would argue it's not very clearly a new Pixel cuz it looks very similar.
00:23:28
The way they knew was that is you he got pictures of the whole story board that said Google Pixel 10 in the story board, I guess. Yeah, if you didn't know the
00:23:39
new Pixel, you would. It looks like it looks like the 9. That could have just been a commercial shoot for Pixel 9. He
00:23:45
sees this cool pro lens, a big slider, like an offset camera shoot. Let's take some pictures. He said he was just
00:23:51
interested in the camera. Then he zooms in and gets a picture of the storyboard, which is straight up storyboarding that
00:23:58
ends with ask more of your phone, Google Pixel 10, and like a floating Pixel. So funny. These uh these Samsung Google
00:24:05
marketing partnerships are getting really weird. Yeah, cuz didn't he they have to have done this with those
00:24:10
Galaxy? No, I actually think he's a photographer, so I think he straight up has he was on a beach and in his Twitter
00:24:17
profile, he has other photos at the beach. I think he just has a really good camera. I do want to say though, I do feel like
00:24:22
I was heard because very last episode I was like, we need more interesting phone
00:24:27
leaks. None of this none of we need phones being left in the wild. Walk on the beach, stumble on a production. Like
00:24:34
that's Thank you Google for listening. I will say from the images, uh, I do see a probe lens in there. I'm very curious
00:24:40
what they're shooting with the probe lens. Although I do like shot of it being swept away. You go real close to
00:24:46
the screen. It's probably going to be one of those classics. You can look at the whole storyboard and literally see the commercial if you want to. Yeah. The
00:24:51
interesting things from the storyboard are one of them shows the like ad me feature going on where it's like a
00:24:58
mother and daughter and it says like take a picture and then we see them walk away and their outline stays and the dad
00:25:04
like runs in. So, we know they're going to talk about that. The other thing I was wondering is there's a part that
00:25:09
says having a lilac 15. I was wondering if lilac might be a color probably like a light purple type thing. 15 in though. What does that mean? Yeah, that was confusing. Maybe that means 15 seconds.
00:25:21
Oh, maybe a lot of commercials are 15 or 30. Oh, that's the name of the commercial. Having a lilac 15sec spot.
00:25:29
Okay, that would make more sense. I would, you know what would be amazing? Use Gemini when you got me. If somebody, some really talented YouTuber who is
00:25:36
good at cinematography and has the right equipment could create this commercial before Google. Holy and put it out the story because we have a story board.
00:25:50
We have the shots. We know what gear they're using. We know they're shooting it outside. We know. And we just use the Pixel 9. And we just use Pixel 9. Get
00:25:58
Brandon on the phone. I'd like to put that challenge out there cuz I was going to say it would be very funny. I kind of
00:26:04
want to put this like all these photos into Google Flow and see if it'll just make the commercial.
00:26:12
Yeah. Wait, did you just have that idea right now? Such a good idea, Marcus. Damn, we're we're watching Genius in
00:26:17
Motion, bro. This is a genius studio video. Cuz imagine having that and then publishing it right before Google and then Google publishes theirs and you're
00:26:24
like, "That's a studio video. We've got plenty of time to do this." I think there are some quality creators out
00:26:29
there who could pull this off. I'm just I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not going to do it. So, I'm I'm leaving the idea out there. You're not going to do
00:26:35
it? You're not going to do it. Are we going to do it? I'm already throwing this time. All right. We might try it.
00:26:41
We might try it. We made we made the pixel commercial before Google. I kind of like to say, "Okay, maybe we'll do
00:26:47
this." I thought you're being facicious. No, we I think someone actually should do it and maybe it should be us. I think that's the case. Now we're talking. I
00:26:54
think that's a noted. Yeah, we may. We Cuz this would go Yeah, I like this. This would go very viral. Okay, I'm
00:27:00
keeping this. I You can do it, too, but maybe we'll do it also. Can I play the Pixel 10? You can be the the ad me dad.
00:27:09
The ad me daddy. Yeah. this. Um, so, uh, what colors does it come in? Well, lilac made me think of
00:27:16
colors, and there was also a leak of what colors are going to be coming out, which is obsidian, iris, blue, lemon yellow. Lemonchello. So, black, which I
00:27:22
do remember. What was was it like the pixel yellow seven had that like yellow color? Wait, what is lemon cello?
00:27:28
Yellow. Lemonella is yellow. Okay. Wow. Yellow. So, goldish. It's the same color. I know. It's like quite yellow.
00:27:34
It's like pretty yellow. Yeah. H, which is weird. Okay, cool. Well, I was going to say the only reason this leak was
00:27:40
interesting because of the storyboard, and I think you proved that that was the interesting part. Waveform is our
00:27:45
brainstorming session. I was making YouTube videos for probably a decade before I knew what a storyboard was. I
00:27:52
didn't I never went to film school. I never learned what a storyboard was. But once you understand how direct this
00:27:58
commercial storyboard is, probably one to one with what the commercial is, you can literally just make the commercial. The storyboard for this podcast episodes
00:28:04
is crazy. The script is in. Yeah. Um, scene one, we're sitting here. Scene five, we're still sitting here. Interior podcast studio. The boys are
00:28:17
talking. Temperature just rises one degree in every story. Yeah. Um, the tweet did get
00:28:25
deleted. If you want to see it, there's a like Reddit thread and a 9 to5 Google article. If you just type in Pixel 10
00:28:30
leak, you'll find it. Speaking of like real quick, just speaking of leaks that did get deleted, unfortunately, someone
00:28:36
unboxed the Nintendo Switch 2 just to get that SEO in there. Saw that. Um, and it was only like a 7-second clip, but it
00:28:43
got taken down like immediately. That person probably got taken down, right? Got Yeah, cuz I saw the I saw an article
00:28:50
that I tried to embed the YouTube video like, okay, obviously. And I played and it was like this was a copyright strike
00:28:55
and I was like, did Nintendo like Oh, yeah. snap on Mario just showed up with a hammer pipe
00:29:03
to me. Yeah, that's going to be tough tough for whoever's uh trying to re-upload that. Maybe they probably
00:29:09
already did reupload it somewhere. I was looking for a real upload like all night last night and I couldn't find it. There's probably a team of like a
00:29:15
hundred people working on striking those. Yeah, shout out to them. That's true. Um, speaking of Switch 2, really
00:29:20
quickly, we're not going to be able to really cover it immediately, which kind of sucks cuz it comes out on Thursday.
00:29:25
Never say never. We're going to try. We'll see. Stay subscribed to the general network of channels. If
00:29:32
something really important happens like during the launch, we could we'll we'll come in. We'll record a little quickie
00:29:37
banger on on Thursday or something like that. Yeah. If only for the intro because you know better be really good.
00:29:44
Yeah. Lemonchello. Well, we do have a lot more to talk about after the break including an interview and we want to figure out what is happening in the
00:29:50
world of browsers right now. So, we will do that. But before that, trivia. All right, welcome back to Waveform Trivia. Guys, I think I cracked the
00:30:04
code. I feel like the guy in the Da Vinci Code right now cuz it's been cracked. I think isn't it Tom Hanks?
00:30:09
Yes, Tom Hanks. I figured out a way to talk about basketball on this podcast without an angry mob showing up. You're the Knicks. I love this. No, no, we're not talking about that. No, no, no, no,
00:30:20
no, no. Don't, don't ruin this for me. Don't bring it up, David. You're Nick's lore. You got to keep that out of here somewhere else. In Korea,
00:30:29
some Korean basketball teams have such strong sponsorship affiliations with tech companies that the tech company's
00:30:37
name is actually in the team name in between the city and the mascot. Okay. And the mascot. Okay. So, which of the following KBL teams is not real? Andrew, what are
00:30:52
you googling? Oh, no. Sorry. This is a baseball thing that I wanted to bring up after this. Okay, but be very careful. I'm not. I promise you. Make sure he's
00:30:58
not looking up. Right. He looks up the Samsung Tigers. A the soul Samsung right now. Are we? Yeah, but we hear. You know what? If I wanted a little fanfare, you know, God forbid
00:31:11
Ellis has a little fun on this podcast. It's not in the storyboard. You're not allowed to go off script. Anyway, A. The Soul Samsung Thunders B. The Changan LG
00:31:24
Sakers. Saker is a kind of falcon. C. The Olsson Hyundai Mobus Feebis. I hate this. Got to explain that one a little bit. Olsan city in Korea. Hyundai Mobus is a division of Hyundai. And Feebis is
00:31:40
is an epithet for the Greek god Apollo. Wow. Or D, they're all real. You know how we have theoretically we have separation
00:31:50
between church and state in America? I feel like in Korea they really need separation between uh sport and brand.
00:31:58
Yeah, those brands are massive. They're big brands. Well, I mean the brands are just so huge. I just want to say there
00:32:05
is an irony to the fact that we are recording this podcast less than 10 miles away from the stadium that homes
00:32:11
the New York Red Bulls. Um Well, but that's not right. No, that is the name of the team. That is the name of the team and it is that Red Bull. Indiana, according to Gemini, is very close in
00:32:24
size to South Korea. So, imagine if you had a brand, but I don't know if that's true. Like, if Indiana had a basketball
00:32:30
team, let's say the the Pacers. We're done here. Okay. I just want to say since we're talking about scoreboards, aren't they winning? Yes. RIP RIP the poop MLB scoreboard. Did you
00:32:43
see RIP the poop? Wow. Wow. real Pennsylvania right now. Whenever the Phillies and the Pirates would play, the scoreboard would be the P for Phillies, zero for the score, then zero for the
00:32:55
score, and P for Pirates. And for like 10 years, the scoreboard would always just say poop at the start of every game
00:33:01
and it's they changed it this year and they did like a eulogy like in the broadcast for it. That's so funny. It was Philly Sports and Pittsburgh Sports
00:33:11
have some rivalries going on and so celebrating this rivalry with the poop scoreboard is like a beloved
00:33:17
Pennsylvania tradition. That's so funny. I didn't know their logo was just a P. That's why you Why don't you just use
00:33:23
two letters like Well, no. Those are their logo. Team logo. That's their team logo. It's not even just the like letter of their name. Really funny. All right. We will we will think about these these
00:33:35
potential brand team collabs. Answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right
00:33:41
[Music] back. Support for the show comes from Shopify. Starting a business is hard. We're not going to sugarcoat it. I mean,
00:33:57
when we first started doing this podcast, I remember we faced our fair share of challenges. There was one episode where we were recording in a car
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and it was a phone camera in the dashboard and we recorded like an entire episode and then went to hit stop and
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selling today at shopify.com/wayform. So go to shopify.com/wayform. That's shopify.com/wwayform. All right, welcome back. So this next segment is a bit of a different one. and it's an extra person,
00:35:25
but we're all still chatting. I don't know if you guys have picked up on this, but I feel like on social media and the past couple of weeks online, I've seen a
00:35:32
lot more chatter about browsers. New browser here, up and cominging browser there, AI alongside your browser here.
00:35:40
And it's just got me thinking a lot about what the future of browsers actually is. It's not a question we
00:35:45
think about very often, but now it's something we're thinking about. And so, who better to have that conversation
00:35:50
with than Josh, CEO of the browser company. They've made a browser called Arc that a lot of us at the studio have fallen in love with and started using. And then they also rapidly pivoted very
00:36:02
recently and started working on a new browser that's powered by AI called DIA. We have thoughts on it. He of course is going to have things to say about it. So, we figured we'd have that whole conversation here on Waveform. It's also
00:36:14
just a segment of the conversation that you're about to hear. We're going to have the longer entire full published
00:36:20
thing on Monday. So, if you want to stay tuned for that, get subscribed. But here are some of the best parts of that
00:36:25
conversation with Josh from the browser company about browsers. What's going on with them? Well, hey Josh, thanks for
00:36:31
joining us. Thanks for having me. Not super long trip, but easy to get here and we love having you. First of all,
00:36:37
let's introduce you because you're the CEO of the browser company. And the browser company is a pretty self-explanatory name, but break down
00:36:44
what you do, what the company does, and then we can chat about all this stuff. Thank you so much for having me. Uh,
00:36:49
when we started the browser company, people warned me that nobody cares about web browsers. So, didn't think this is
00:36:55
why I would be here, but it's awesome to have made it on Waveform, uh, making web browsers. So, thank you for having me. Uh, we make two browsers. We make a
00:37:02
browser called Arc, which is awesome to see on both of your screens. You probably noticed it. I appreciate it. Um, and then a new AI browser called
00:37:08
DIA, uh, which I'm excited to talk about today. Is that a reference to DIA Beacon, by the way? Naming's hard. Yeah.
00:37:16
So, for one of the people, Dia Beacon had had a connection to it, but uh, yeah, Dia Beacon is an uh, it's a art
00:37:22
museum in Beacon, New York. Yeah. Yeah. I think I remember saying a while ago, Arc is a good name, too. I do remember
00:37:29
that. I definitely remember that. It's a good name. Yeah. And also, Dia is kind of like a new day, a new dawn.
00:37:35
Man, if there's one thing that is hard at startups, naming anything and creating a logo for anything is a
00:37:40
religious debate. We got here. So, I mean, as we've talked about on this podcast, there's been like a lot of
00:37:46
chatter in the browser world. You know, obviously, we're a more niche group of people really into tech, but it just
00:37:51
feels like there's movement with browsers and with people trying new things and new concepts and new ideas of
00:37:56
what the internet is and what search is, and it's all very interesting. And so I figured it would be cool to have you
00:38:03
talk a little bit about number one, how we got to arc and then number two, how you moved from Arc to DIA being the second big focus and big project. Sure.
00:38:13
Yeah. So our original observation that led to the browser company was that it was 2019 2020 and I was actually working at a VC firm for two years and I was noticing that all of the kind of hot new
00:38:25
startups that were coming in they were all web apps for the first time. You know, for the 10 years before that, everything I'd been working on were
00:38:31
mobile apps. And now these companies were coming in and showing these wild new reinventions of documents. Exactly.
00:38:38
And then what struck me was every time they came in, they were in this rectangle that was Chrome. And that thing hadn't changed at all in decades.
00:38:46
But the thing that really got me excited about browsers was that observation. And then my wife got a job with a
00:38:51
76-year-old artist in Flagstaff, Arizona, the least tech ccentric workplace you can imagine. Yeah. And I
00:38:57
saw her in her new job. She never left Chrome. Even in the art world, you know, she got sent PDFs from galleries and
00:39:03
they were URLs that she opened in Chrome. She spent hours and hours every day in Chrome. And myself and my
00:39:09
co-founder and uh the early employees were all consumer backgrounds. People that worked at Snapchat and Instagram were really interested in how software
00:39:16
can touch people at scale. You know, all the people in our life. And we thought, wait a minute, browsers are one of the
00:39:21
most consumer pieces of software imaginable. We you don't think about it like that. like the way you feel about Instagram or your iPhone, no one cares
00:39:29
about Chrome or Safari in that way. And so that to us felt like, oh my god, this is this dry utility that hasn't changed
00:39:36
in two decades that you use for hours every single day. And everyone's like, yeah, I don't really have an opinion
00:39:41
about it. Like where else in tech do you have that? So that was really the simple idea was okay if our browsers are now
00:39:47
really these effectively operating systems with our apps and files and you don't care about it but you're spending
00:39:52
hours every day. What might it look like to build a piece of software that people cared so much about and made them feel
00:39:58
good? Which kind of gets back to where I started is people warned they don't care. And I think part of the reason
00:40:03
we're here today is now people care so much about Arc that I'm coming on the Worn podcast. So be careful what you
00:40:09
wish for I guess. Yeah. So we we ended up in a place where like we all are super heavy tech users and and a lot of
00:40:16
us here I think all of us actually still use Arc like really love the browser and the product and the features and a lot
00:40:22
of the UI. People can scroll back to previous episodes where we've talked about it and so it's it's developed a
00:40:27
community where yes people do care about this web browser. Yeah. And now there's this new project you're working on which
00:40:33
is DIA which is super early. We've all started playing with it and it's it's very different. It's an you've already said it's an AI based web browser.
00:40:40
explain what DIA is and then we can figure out like how it exists in the world of browser. Yeah, actually and
00:40:45
before getting to DIA, I'm curious. I went back and rewatched the first time David brought up Arc on this podcast.
00:40:51
Nice. Which by the way is embarrassing because I had no idea how to explain it. Well, I was like, it removes my tabs
00:40:58
when I don't use them. Arc got introduced to this whole company because David has a tab hoarding problem and it
00:41:04
had a feature to do that and that was the feature that sold David off and that was only one of the features but then it
00:41:10
slowly grew to multiple people in the office and it's become like a favorite but I remember being so excited to hear
00:41:16
that David brought it up on this podcast and I remember watching the video and like David I knew he knew about it and
00:41:22
you really did stumble. I just was like well it does this and the tabs are on the side. It's kind of it's weird and
00:41:28
and it's interesting like hearing you talk about the way that people want to have like an emotional connection with their browser because again even
00:41:34
something uh as simple as having the tabs on the side of the browser. That's something that is very native to Arc
00:41:41
that I think a lot of people are and we'll get into this later I think but like are frustrated about with like DX.
00:41:47
It's back to the Chrome experience. But uh yeah, it's just there have been many things about Ark that have just like got
00:41:54
their hooks into us here at the studio. And so the the reason I bring it up though is because on that podcast you
00:41:59
were I would say open-minded but very skeptical. Yes. And I'm curious for you what shifted because it it it relates to the DIA story that we'll get to in a second, I'm sure. I think it's one of those things where I didn't care too
00:42:10
much about the browser either. I was using Chrome and then I was switching to Safari on the laptop because the the
00:42:15
battery life was better and I was just kind of agnostic and was willing to try something. So I tried something and I
00:42:21
think it was a couple features that I did like especially for whatever reason the side tabs it's a widescreen machine
00:42:27
like it just made too much sense and I just got hooked. So Arc like quickly became my home and then the syncing
00:42:33
across devices I just like started using Arc a lot. Yep. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. So to answer your question about D and then
00:42:38
I'm sure we can come back to that. So they're my personal life and professional life I keep very separate
00:42:45
you know my personal life it's people I went to college with high school with they're not in tech they work in manufacturing or art and I feel like in
00:42:52
the past 6 months nine months all of them have started talking to these AI chat tools for everything in their life
00:43:00
you know my friend who works in manufacturing that I was talking about I was hanging out with him a couple weekends ago and he was saying there's not a professional project or personal
00:43:07
chore that he does not turn to AI in some way to get help with. And the last time there have been two times in my
00:43:14
life that has happened where I I woke up one day and all of my personal friends changed the way they interface with their computers. When I was in middle
00:43:20
school and everyone got an AIM and MySpace and Live Journal and Facebook and then in college starting with a
00:43:26
Blackberry and then the iPhone when we started doing things like Instagram and then stories on Snapchat. This is that third time in my life. And I feel like
00:43:32
because we're so in the tech world talking about AI and I I actually think I did a poor job of leading us about a
00:43:39
year ago because I felt uncomfortable about this in our industry. AI is like a political topic. It's like politics
00:43:45
where you have these two extreme parties and voices that dominate the conversation because they have the time to care about it. You have these AGI
00:43:52
maximalists that are like get ready for UBI. And then you have people that actually as a reaction to this and I was
00:43:58
part of that at the beginning are like it's slop it's garbage it's dystopian it's going to write our emails to our
00:44:04
loved ones like how dumb it is and I think when you get out of the building which we've tried to do for the past year and a half and talk to people that
00:44:10
are not in tech it's somewhere in the middle but I would actually say slightly closer to the AGI side of it is rewiring
00:44:17
how people interface with their computers. Uh there was this University of Nebraska student I interviewed and
00:44:23
she was talking about I turned to it for meal planning and for help with outfits and friend advice in school. And so the
00:44:30
foundational kind of observation of DIA was that what is a browser? It is technically a user agent. Your browser
00:44:36
is designed to represent you to web pages and web servers and bring stuff back on your behalf. And so it seems so
00:44:42
clear outside of the tech world and ARC and all that stuff aside that people wanted to interface with the internet
00:44:48
not just with web pages anymore but with AI models and probably in the future agents like deep research and shouldn't
00:44:54
your interface to the internet be able to both handle web pages and chat and models and agents and so that was the
00:45:01
observation that made us so excited to work on DIA. We can obviously talk about ARC as well and the challenges we had
00:45:07
there. But that really was the the inciting observation that led us to say, wait a minute, if we're really building
00:45:13
a a browser, a user agent for the next 5 10 years, which we have to think about, the world is so clearly going there,
00:45:18
whether or not the AGI versus AI slop debate gets talked about the most. I think the big question that opens up
00:45:24
though is that like the browser company, a lot of people felt very passionate about the browser company because you
00:45:30
guys put so much effort into making the Thursday updates like an event and the the onboarding how it was so colorful and there's just like a feeling that everyone really got close to and
00:45:41
associated with. And so I think the feeling that a lot of the community is like well if you're going to do this fine but why not just integrate that
00:45:47
into Arc? like what's the point of like starting a whole new browser instead of just putting those AI features into Arc
00:45:54
itself? Yeah. And I want to touch on the Thursday updates and the feelings cuz it's really important. You all were actually influential here. Um what
00:46:00
people miss was the first year of ARC. The first year of Arc did not have a lot of the stuff that people love. And the
00:46:07
way that we got to that place was by testing it early with people who were like, "Nah, I don't like it. Here's what I don't like about it. Man, this is
00:46:13
missing the soul." Like where is that feeling? Where are the craft details? where is the browser company spirit and
00:46:19
then us integrating it. You better believe that's in the version of DIA when we launch. We just like testing early and often. Now the question of why
00:46:26
not integrate into Arc. Boy did we try like a year of my life trying to figure out how we could take where we thought the world was going and put it in Arc. There are two problems. I wish there
00:46:37
were three because the rule of three, but there were two. The first is there's this novelty tax that you get when you
00:46:44
try a new product. Not you guys, but the average person that has a job and they have stuff going on in their life and
00:46:49
someone's like, "Hey, you should try this new thing, Arc," they have like 30 seconds that they're willing to give to
00:46:54
it. And as David talked about stumbling over his original pitch, they're like, "Okay, so there the tabs are over here,
00:47:00
and there are these things called spaces, and then there are pin tabs, but the pin tabs are different, the bookmarks, and these ways. You got to
00:47:05
try split screen." And it's just like people just couldn't handle how much there was to learn that was new. Mhm.
00:47:11
And so we just felt if the world is going to as profoundly shift as we think it is because of these AI models, how
00:47:18
are we going to teach you how to interface with AI models and agents, whatever the heck comes while also
00:47:23
teaching you about all of those novel concepts. It's a lot. It it just seemed I mean it before AI that was our biggest
00:47:29
problem. That's why we came to the office to try to get you on board, you know, two years ago is like you had
00:47:34
someone you worked with saying it was amazing and you work in tech trying new products, you're like, "No, I'm good."
00:47:40
Yeah. So that was problem number one. Problem number two is it touches me and our team that people love Arc so much.
00:47:46
It also had performance issues. I think it had way too many features. We built it in a very prototype experimental way.
00:47:53
And what we learned over time is the importance of speed and the importance of reliability and just your browser
00:47:58
feeling snappy. And there were architectural decisions we made in Arc and then layered and layered and layered
00:48:03
over time that even if we thought we could solve the novelty problems, it would have been really challenging to
00:48:09
hit our bar for speed and performance and other things that were important to us. Yeah. I don't quite know how to
00:48:14
verbalize this and if you all think about this with your video creations, but it also felt like Ark was not
00:48:21
finished, not perfect, but it had the right components. It was what it was meant to be. It didn't feel like it was
00:48:28
missing things. And if you go back to our YouTube comments maybe a year ago or so, every time we would push a new
00:48:33
feature, people would say, "I don't want a new feature. I want like Android support. And I don't want a new feature. I want this to be faster." And so I feel
00:48:41
like we don't also don't talk enough in the software world about like when a product is not done, but in the state it
00:48:47
is meant to be and it is what it is and you can do with it what you want. And to me, again, people that used Arc, I'm
00:48:54
sure you didn't have that many complaints with the tab model or the craft details. It sort of felt like the product was what it was meant to be and
00:49:01
there was something to just like come to terms with, you know? Does that make sense? Yeah. No, I think that was one of my questions was essentially is ARC a
00:49:08
finished product because it is so different and it is so built and it has these new fundamentals and now it kind
00:49:13
of does this new thing and obviously there's optimizations and and speed improvements and little things here and
00:49:19
there but essentially as an idea is it done? Yes, I feel like it kind of is. Uh at least that was my take which is why you know I think people who use ARC are are kind of just asking for the little
00:49:30
things now instead of just like massive new ideas. Uh but yeah, go ahead. And the analogy that we use internally is uh
00:49:36
or one of them is, you know, Frank Ocean's Channel Orange, there was a mixtape that put him on the scene before
00:49:42
that and that only appealed to a certain type of audience. It was a great mixtape, but Channel was done. It was a
00:49:49
finished work of art. It was a complete thought. And Channel Orange was a how do we make something? I'm not sure this how
00:49:55
we thought about it, but like you know what I mean? It's finished. Yeah. It's very, it's funny because in the in the
00:50:01
video world where we make a video, we we kind of we can edit the video forever. Like I can edit one video for a year and
00:50:08
it could never be done. But at a certain point, I have to get to 97% and go on to the next one. And so the video gets
00:50:14
published and it's done and I can never finish it. In the software world, people have this expectation of updates
00:50:20
forever. Like you buy a new phone and you're like, I want to get software updates for as long as possible. if I
00:50:25
download and install a browser, I want new features and new updates for forever. Uh, so the expectation is
00:50:31
different, but yeah, I feel like it's it's maybe a little bit more of a statement of the idea being so different
00:50:38
that it can finish and be sort of published and and that's different in the software world. And honestly, I I
00:50:44
think it's I'm surprised we don't talk about software more as a cultural product like a video or a piece of art
00:50:49
in that way. And that I looked at my iPhone screen for example and many of the apps that I still love and I've used
00:50:54
for decades, Insta Paper, IIA Writer, even Apple Notes, they're pretty much the same product and I'm happy with it. Like one of the things that I will reflect on in a decade is you know we
00:51:06
started putting out these videos very early on when other tech companies didn't do that and really not with a plan just to sort of be ourselves and be
00:51:12
open and invite the community in and just I don't know as an experiment and a consequence I think of our kind of
00:51:18
experimental prototype driven culture where every week there was new stuff and our experiment of being like let's just
00:51:23
be open about what we're doing meant that we set this expectation that like every week there's going to be some new hotness and new features and that that
00:51:30
we thrived on that for so long. Think about Safari. Is Safari a finished product? How long is it? Updates once a
00:51:37
year. Yeah. No one complains about that. How you know if you whoever you over there use Chrome. How often are you
00:51:42
like, "Man, this new Chrome feature is dope." So, I'm that's I I don't know what to do with that. Again, it's a
00:51:48
byproduct of the way we I have run this company, but I think there's also this interesting bar where no one's
00:51:53
complaining that Safari hasn't gotten like wild new features in a long time. So, that's fair. I have done a horrible
00:51:59
job in many ways. is I think communicating about what the heck is going on at the browser company. So I will own that. But ARC's not going
00:52:05
anywhere. Arc is not going anywhere. Arc is not going anywhere. We're just focused on DIA in terms of where most of
00:52:11
our energy is. And then yeah, let's do Chromium upgrades. Let's do security patches. Let's do bug fixes. Let's do
00:52:16
the same things that these other browsers do. Okay. How much of your company would you say that you have devoted to making sure that Arc is
00:52:23
stable? There are probably three engineers at any given time working on one of those topics. Okay. So, yeah, but
00:52:30
we're but just to be really clear, I don't want to over we are not building new features as of now for Arc. So, but
00:52:36
that is very different than like this product is being sunseted or going anywhere or anything like that. When you
00:52:42
see your two company or two browsers together, do you expect people to move from Arc to Dia or do you kind of expect
00:52:48
the Arc world to stay in Arc and Dia is a new subset of people coming to it? Yeah, I think we're in a little bit uncharted territory for a software company of our stage and that you know
00:52:59
we called it the browser company for a reason. We could have changed the name to ARC many times and so we've always been excited about having a portfolio of
00:53:06
products and of browsers. Having said that, I do think a lot of the things people love about Arc will come to DIA
00:53:12
in some form. And so the honest answer is like I don't know because one of the things that's been perplexing about arc
00:53:17
is we tried to get to the root of what was powerful about arc for people. And it turned out there were like seven
00:53:23
different archetypes that used like ran you know there was the archetype that uh used the browser in zero chrome like
00:53:29
David is here and kind of flew around with keyboard shortcuts and you had like the space organizer with pin tabs and folders and renamed everything. And so
00:53:36
in terms of are people going to go from arc to dia we're not going to force anyone to do anything. I really like I'm
00:53:42
I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm inspired by that. You got the like the MacBook Pro or and then the MacBook Air and the iPad
00:53:48
Air and it's different things for different people. But I I suspect when we bring things over like a vertical
00:53:53
sidebar, when we take a novel uh take on tab management, I think a lot of people,
00:53:58
not to mention the browser company kind of design flare and craft, I suspect a lot of ARC people will prefer DIA, but I
00:54:05
get excited about having having both uh for the foreseeable future. So what's your plan to move those Chrome users
00:54:12
over then? Right? Cuz if if the whole if the whole idea is it's too complicated for most people, it's equally
00:54:19
complicated to just get someone to move on to something else at all. Like there's a lot of friction there. You're
00:54:24
a small company. There's not a lot of brand recognition for my mom, you know? What's like how how are you planning on
00:54:31
like finding those people who were never going to see the browser company at all? Because the whole point right is that you is that arc is sort of a limited
00:54:38
user base because it's the power users. If DIA is supposed to be let's take all of Chrome's market share. How do you
00:54:44
access those people at all? Yeah. Well, that is the big question that has always been the question for this company from day one. So I don't want to purport to
00:54:50
have like the definite answer. But the theory of DIA is so if you go back to the idea of a browser as a user agent
00:54:57
and it's a user agent for web pages and now it's going to be a user agent for models and chat. I think one of the things we concluded with Arc is that
00:55:05
Chrome actually and Safari do great jobs with web pages. Obviously, there are things around tab management and along,
00:55:11
but like I think for most people, they're fine with the way their user agent, their browser opens tabs. When
00:55:17
you talk to those people, I referenced the, you know, the college friend and my wife about what what is frustrating
00:55:23
about these AI chat tools, we really hear two things. The first is it's a pain in the butt to get that context out
00:55:30
of whatever app or file you're working in into the chat tool. So, it has the awareness of what you're working on to
00:55:36
do the damn thing. The second thing that frustrates them is it doesn't know anything about them. Even with memory,
00:55:42
it knows the chats that you've had, but it doesn't really know what is your taste, what is your writing style, what are the things that you love, what are
00:55:48
the things that you don't like. the browser, the traditional browser and traditional web pages solve both of
00:55:54
those issues because as we started with what are your tabs in 2025, their apps and their files. So you don't have to
00:56:00
copy and paste and fuss around to get stuff out into chat. Let's just bring these AI models right to where you are
00:56:06
in the apps and files that you use every day. And then the second bet is that you know you know how when you use Instagram
00:56:12
reels or Tik Tok for better or worse it feels like every swipe, every action like teaches the algorithm to better
00:56:18
understand you. Yeah. The way that it should feel in the future is that in an AI browser like DIA, every tab that you
00:56:24
open, it feels like this model. It's not Sam Alman's GPT40. It's like GPT David.
00:56:30
And it's getting better and better and trained for you every action that you take. So that when you ask a question
00:56:36
about something else, it does not only has the context of that tab that you don't have to copy and paste into a
00:56:41
tool. It also remembers the last seven shopping sessions that you did or the last 17 things that you wrote. like the
00:56:46
way that I've been I I can't quite this is the first external marketing thing I've done so I don't actually have my language down yet but there's something
00:56:52
I've been thinking about that with ARC the sort of hero image was the cluttered tab bar whenever we showed like seven
00:56:59
windows with 50 tabs open people are like I hate that I want whatever this is that fixes that and that's so
00:57:05
interesting because in the old world that was a problem that was clutter that was chaos in the world of AI models that
00:57:11
is like person that's like oil it is it it is the context that is missing to make these models actually understand
00:57:17
you. And so the bet that you have to believe, which I know maybe not all of you do, is that truly AI is going to
00:57:24
change how we interface with our computers and the things that you turn to it for. If you don't believe that, we're screwed. If you believe that
00:57:30
future is going to be a reality, then I think the convenience of having it right there in your tools and files combined
00:57:36
with the compounding personalization that you get from that awareness, yeah, is something that at least from talking to people outside the building, that's
00:57:43
what that's what is on their mind right now. They're not complaining about, you know, man, when I go to Google and I
00:57:48
click this link, this sucks. Give me a browser. That's not what's going on in the world anymore. Yeah. Do you have
00:57:54
like a timeline of when DIA will feel like this product that you are sort of pitching? Because I think right now I think a lot of the backlash from ARC being I don't know about Sunset, but
00:58:07
maintained and DIA coming out is that be like part of the reason that people love
00:58:12
Arc is because you built in the open, right? And now you're building DA in the open. Um I think a lot of those ARC
00:58:18
users love the browser company. So they were frustrated that Arc was being sunset and not being sunset. Not being
00:58:25
maintained journalism. Yep. Sorry. Being maintained. Uh is that the version of DIA that people have access to right now
00:58:31
is very bare bones and doesn't necessarily meet the the more grandor uh ideas that you have for how you're going to interact with this AI browser. So, do you have like a timeline of when people
00:58:43
are going to be able to play with something that has those capabilities? Yeah, it obviously depends on what bits you're talking about, but I'll I'll try
00:58:49
to answer. Yeah. Um, by the way, yeah, at some other point of reviewers, I'd love to talk about the pros and cons of building in public and being transparent
00:58:56
in public on YouTube. Um, but yeah, actually, when my second son was born, I like left the hospital in Paris actually uh to go get food for my wife and someone's like, "Hey, Arc, I love it." I
00:59:08
was like, "Whoa, this is like a new this is not what I thought was going to." But any event, to answer your question super
00:59:13
directly, um, I'd say if you're someone that tried Arc or has never tried Arc and you try DIA to get to the bar where
00:59:19
you're like, "Oh, this feels better than Chrome." 6 weeks. You are on an old version of it. I feel good about that.
00:59:25
Terms of the both I'd say grander of what I'm talking about, which again was always there with Arc. So, we're going to be internet computer operating system
00:59:32
for their web. the grander and the I'd say ARC members feeling like it has enough of the basic, you know, the
00:59:38
things that they the vertical sidebar, I'd say somewhere between Labor Day and Thanksgiving. Um, but again, on the hey, you just browse like you normally do and
00:59:48
this like model self-personalizes to that's going to be a many many year thing. But what we did with ARC was just
00:59:54
like let's be honest about where we're going and build it in public and around people. Like you know the other day one
01:00:00
of the things we're going to release soon in in the kind of when we give it to ARC members um very soon is there
01:00:05
were these college students that were hacking our personalization features to make these mini apps like almost like AI
01:00:12
apps. So they created this syntax where they would be like when I do back slashgadgets I want you to do these 17 things. And so then they'd go they'd hit
01:00:22
a new tab and do backslash gadgets and then whatever they wanted to do and they kind of like made their own little apps
01:00:29
and we're like well and multiple did for different different use cases and this goes back to the like native to the
01:00:34
technology native to the phone. We're like well that's pretty wild and so what we've been sprinting to do you know that
01:00:41
we weren't going to do five weeks ago is like man we got to formalize this and see if we make it even easier what other people do. And so that's all to say part
01:00:47
of the reason that, you know, the grander it won't be there, you know, right away is the stuff's hard and it
01:00:53
takes time. But part of the reason is the reason ARC is so beloved is because we were like, we have no idea what we're doing. Let's put some stuff out there,
01:01:00
see what people do, react to it. And so we also want to have time to say maybe the big idea here is actually AI native apps aren't going to be these agents.
01:01:06
They're going to be these like user created and shared little mini apps that it's an idea. It's an idea. Definitely
01:01:12
an idea. It's a definite idea. So that's it for now with Josh from the browser company. Really interesting to chat with
01:01:17
him. Thanks again Josh for the time. And again if you want to listen to the full what do we chat for like an hour an
01:01:23
hourong conversation with Josh stay tuned because we're going to publish that whole thing on Monday. We go in depth on some other things and talk more
01:01:29
about DIA and the future of what Google could do to them or not do to them and why. It's fascinating. It's got us
01:01:35
thinking about a lot of new things. Either way back to your pod. Well, we got a little bit more after the break, but of course before we get into that,
01:01:42
one more trivia question. [Music] Trivia, dude. This question comes to us from listener Rayon. He says, "What was
01:01:53
the first iPhone to have a gyroscope? And what was the demo that Apple used to introduce the tech?" Oh, two points. Two points on the board. I remember the
01:02:04
demo. The beer. Yeah. Okay. Do you remember the beer ad? I just got to like reel about that the other day that's like what a tough day and then there's like roommate comes in
01:02:16
and also cracks one. Sick. Okay, answers at the end like usual. We'll be right [Music]
01:02:33
back. All right, welcome back. We're going to wrap this up with our favorite end of the month monthly segment, Crown
01:02:40
and Clown, where we will find something to agree on as the crown of the month, the best thing to happen this month, and find something to agree on that is the clown of the month, the worst thing to
01:02:51
happen this month in the tech world. I have not brought anything to the table, so I'm open to being swayed. Let's hear
01:02:57
what you guys have. I can go first. I don't think either of mine will be voted for. Okay. But well,
01:03:04
one because you guys were all hyped up about a crown that's gonna happen in a minute, but whatever. Um, so my clown is
01:03:11
there was an International Energy Agency report that found data centers made up 1.5% of global energy use in 2024,
01:03:19
right? Around the same amount of energy that the entire country of Saudi Arabia uses that we're using just for data
01:03:25
centers, which feels poopy. Um I So Google's greenhouse gas emissions increased 48% since 2019. And considering they have a goal of net emissions at zero by 2030, that feels
01:03:40
like a much tougher goal to hit now. In fact, last year they mentioned as we further integrate AI into our products,
01:03:46
reducing emissions may be challenging due to the increased energy demands from the greater intensity of AI compute.
01:03:52
Don't like that. Yeah, I kind of want to look back at all the companies who promised less emissions or less carbon
01:03:59
footprint versus the ones that are doing more AI processing. So, all of them and
01:04:05
if they Well, a lot of them are offsetting it like OpenAI is doing a lot of the stuff that like Apple would be
01:04:10
doing if they made their own model. So, I'm curious about that. But anyway, this is your clown. This is my clown. It's
01:04:16
just like these data centers are going to make like the crypto mining inefficiencies look like child's play.
01:04:23
Yeah. And um all of that so Gemini Gemini can tell us a gorilla is smaller than a human. Sounds useful. If you're
01:04:30
interested in learning more, we had a whole episode with Climate Town talking about all of these zero emission stuff that I'll link in the description.
01:04:36
That's true. You should link that. All right. It's it's not just electricity, too. It's like gargantuan amounts of
01:04:42
fresh water because you can't use salt water cooling. So, uh, yeah, that's a good one, Andrew. Yeah. I mean, this is going to make it sound like I hate all of AI, but like I really hate this part
01:04:54
of AI specifically. My crown is Apple uh having the judge lay down that sick injunction and basically like that fat
01:05:05
beat. Yeah, Tim Cook chose poorly. It was fire. So, third party developers being able to now uh point people outside of the app store to sign up for
01:05:18
things and download things and Apple not being able to have such a tight hold on the app store monopoly. Um their uh
01:05:26
ruling, not mine, uh is I think very good for the ecosystem at large. And I think it's a really big move that we will see the repercussions of down the line. So, I think that is a crown for me
01:05:37
this month. I agree. I think that's a great crown. Yeah. What is you guys have? Yeah. My my crown. This is big,
01:05:44
guys. In fact, this might be the biggest piece of tech news of the of the decade.
01:05:51
Crown of the decade. Crown of the century. iPhone, forget about it. Yeah. I mean, Android, who cares, guys? Final
01:05:59
Cut Pro has adjustment layers now. It's true. This is I'm in for that one. This is unreal. I mean, it says a lot about how
01:06:12
excited we are that this program has a 15-year-old feature, you know, and we're like, "Thank you, God." You know what's
01:06:18
funny? I've had Final Cut is so weird. I I love and hate Final Cut. Final Cut has
01:06:23
some things that are have just been missing or poor about it for so long. And if you ask anyone in industry, they
01:06:30
have lots of things that they hate about it. Adjustment layer is missing this whole time. We had to find like plugins and hacks around it if we wanted to do
01:06:36
the same sort of thing. ann uh like my hands waving around in front of a graphic I have on screen and I did a magnetic mask and I I just selected my
01:06:55
hand and it was like okay I got your fingers and I track it it tracked my hands perfectly for the entire clip and literally as I was sitting watching it
01:07:01
track I was like oh my god this is the greatest masking tool anyone's ever made like humanity has ever seen accelerated
01:07:07
by, you know, Apple silicon. It's so good. So, I actively live with massive upsides and massive downsides of Final Cut Pro all the time. It's like great program. Probably 50% of it is like
01:07:20
completely broken, but the 50% that's and also I just want to say what was so hilarious is that the they added like
01:07:28
four new features in this update and the other three are like so unbelievably stupid and useless. Like they added like
01:07:35
the new quant logic reverbs into Final Cut because you know video editors are like man I just really want really nice
01:07:42
algorithmic reverb. They added image playground integration because you know what pro users have been begging for the best generative AI service on the
01:07:54
planet. Over my face video users are going to see the a heinous image I made of myself with image playground. I don't
01:08:01
even remember what the third one was, but uh it is Oh, the fourth one or whatever. So, adjustment layers, image
01:08:06
playground, magnetic mask enhancements. What's better about It's faster. Oh god, that's so good. Like, that's the thing. It's like adjustment clips. Finally, magnetic masks. Oh my
01:08:18
god. Greatest thing ever. Image playground. Like, what are you doing? Like, there was a team of people working
01:08:24
on this. This is insane. Also, I will just throw it out there while we're talking about Final Cut Pro. Every time
01:08:29
I've color graded for the past month, Final Cut, and I save this for the end of my edits. Now, Final Cut just crashes
01:08:36
every 30 to 60 seconds. So, I'll just be editing, crash, reopen, edit for 30 more
01:08:41
seconds, crash, reopen. 30 seconds. 30 seconds. I'll get three, four, five clips in, crashes, reopens. How do you
01:08:48
finish your edit? I have patience. I save my color grading for the end of the process now because I know it's going to
01:08:54
drive me insane when I'm sitting at my desk. I'll just be like doing whatever work and I'll just hear and he's usually
01:09:00
standing and he always puts two hands on head down and I'll look over and he I'll be like, "You're color grading. My
01:09:07
monitors are empty." You're like, "What happened?" Oh, you know what happened? Premier Pro who? I just thought you were stretching. I didn't realize. Like every
01:09:13
time I'm sighing and my monitors are empty, it's because Final Cut just bailed. Oh my god. Okay. Does anyone
01:09:19
else have a crown? I have a crown that's not going to beat any of it. But did you guys see some of the thing? Netflix
01:09:25
Tadum. Is that how you pronounce it? You got to do it correctly. Come on. There it is. Terrible name. It's not It's not
01:09:30
even out yet, but they showed what they're announcing. And I think this is a really hype lineup of One Piece Live
01:09:37
Action season 2, Stranger Things season 5, Squid Game season 3, Happy Gilmore 2,
01:09:42
and a new Knives Out movie. Happy Gilmore. That's a lot. Happy. Wait, what is it called? Uh Knives Out.
01:09:51
Happy Gilmore. They already have Knives Out, too. It's called Glass Onion. Yeah. No, I just saw
01:09:58
in the like thing. That's funny. Sorry. I can figure it out. Wow. No love for two Happy Two Gilmore. I really thought I cooked on that one. Okay. Squid Game
01:10:09
season 3. So, there was a season two that I missed, huh? I'm assuming. Wait, there was already a season two, I guess.
01:10:14
So, was it good? No, I didn't watch all I didn't watch the first one. Oh, the first one's very good. Good. Do I have to watch the first one to understand the second one? Probably. All right. I don't know. Oh, hold on. What's
01:10:26
the Knives Out movie called? It is called Come on, baby. Wake up Dead Man a Knives Out Mystery.
01:10:32
I'm so excited. They can literally just repeat this format forever and I will keep watching them. Is it great? It's so
01:10:39
funny and good. Have you not watched any of them? No, I've seen them both and I'm the only one that thinks they're very mid. Everyone is obsessed with one was
01:10:46
amazing. really like the only murder mystery of the past like 5 years. That doesn't mean it can't
01:10:52
be amazing. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, Glass Onion was still good, but less good than Knives Out. I think the first one was
01:10:58
just like this whole new thing and like world that we're introduced into and it was it was more You haven't seen it, I'm
01:11:03
guessing. Right. Glass more predictable. Okay. Okay. So, that's your crown. Yeah.
01:11:10
But I can't imagine how we're beating uh We're going to save mine for next because I feel like you guys are so
01:11:15
hyped about Wow. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Any other crowns or clowns you want to nominate before choosing? I
01:11:21
mean, I got Well, yeah. I mean, we got a Omega clown. What's that? All right. 23 and me. You may remember uh in in March, uh we talked about how 23 and me
01:11:36
was going bankrupt and they were going to have to sell all of their genetic data and we made jokes about how it was
01:11:43
definitely going to be sold to pharmaceutical company. I'll play the clip right now. Adam, play the clip. The
01:11:48
April clown could be catastrophic, but here we are in March. Nothing's happened yet. It's like, you know, it's Marquez like, you know what? It hasn't happened yet. Next, April clown. Um, United now
01:12:02
owns 23 and me. Marquez basically pushed this clown further down the line just so
01:12:09
he could nominate the Charger EV with the sound. And that's true. And here we are. And here we are. And so um that has now happened. Uh it has been sold to
01:12:20
what was their name again? Generon 356 million which is similar to Pegatron um in name only. But yeah, so now my genetic data is
01:12:32
owned by a pharmaceutical company. That that has to 23 and me. I did it when I was optimistic about technology. I did
01:12:40
ancestry ancestry.com. So, I'm not screwed yet. Yeah, it'll happen. Don't worry. But it will. Yeah. Capitalism is
01:12:46
not if, it's when. It's inevitable. Mhm. Capitalism comes for us all. Wow. I feel like Marquez has to vote for that just
01:12:52
because he pushed his vote down the line already. I just think it's really funny cuz we predicted it. We were one month
01:12:58
off, but yeah, we're counting. That's okay. I think your exact words were, well, we played the clip already. Yeah.
01:13:04
April will be catastrophic. Yeah, it could be catastrophic. I think we can Are we aligning on that as a clown? At
01:13:09
least for one. I have one more clown, but I don't think it really shapes up to a company just stabbing. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
01:13:16
No. Um, so it's also uh famous uh, you know, so of all the companies that are sort of being like, we're not a this company. We're actually an AI company. We're a cool company. We just happen to
01:13:27
do this. Uh, CLA has been jumping on that bandwagon. Clara is like, we're not a bank. We're not a finance company. I
01:13:34
don't even know what fintech is. We're an AI company. And we happened to give people money. And what where are the AI?
01:13:40
uh in well they've recently cut their workforce by couple thousand fired people that's how they're employed by AI and then the the big clown story for
01:13:51
them is on their most recent earnings call instead of the CEO appearing it was an AI avatar Oh yeah of the CEO I saw that and they thought that was a good
01:14:04
idea they're an AI company so you know to do the same thing this is a that you can
01:14:10
finance your Taco Bell order. Like, I don't think good ideas are flowing, but they're still profitable somehow, which
01:14:16
is ludicrous. Anyway, um Clara, uh you're a joke. Um sorry, but like it's just helping younger people go into debt earlier in
01:14:28
their life. It's just like I you know, look, I'm sure you guys are really great. No, but it's hard to take a
01:14:35
company that uh helps people finance burritos and then does corny stuff like this. It's hard to take it seriously.
01:14:42
Good luck with the IPO. Anyway, uh yeah, I've got a feeling I think we have to give it to 23 and me
01:14:49
just just committing a atrocity. Frankly, an atrocity. Um so your genetic data is now owned by Regeneron. We're going to regenerate me as I'm
01:15:01
gonna make a suggestion to crown and clown. Okay, we should do clowns first because ending on the clown
01:15:07
sucks way more like to end the episode on like Yeah. So, that's an atrocity. So, we're saying trivia. The best thing
01:15:14
is the adjustment layer thing. I think we can say the crown is Final Cut Pro adding a 15year-old. There's been an
01:15:20
adjustment layer plugin for like years that there's also been like really good roto masking plugins for years, but
01:15:26
Apple's is simply better and it also an adjustment layer better. Well, being built in, it potentially leaves room for it to be improved with metal and like have more optimization, etc. The same
01:15:37
way I was using masking plugins, I use one called M Roto AI from Motion VFX and it was fine. It did a pretty decent job, but it being built in leaves a way higher ceiling. So, it's technically the
01:15:50
same feature, but it just works better on on the built-in side. So, I just think it's going to get better over time. Better than better than that fire
01:15:57
injunction by the judge. Cook chose poorly. I think that's that's a bar and it's gonna live forever. But adjustment layers. Oh man, the ceiling is so high
01:16:09
for adjustment layers. As long as it can stop crashing on you, then you Final Cut
01:16:14
Final Cut is not the crown, but this one feature. What if the adjustment layer update is what's making it crash on you? Oh, no. It's been crashing for It's been
01:16:21
crashing for a while. Oh, yeah. Wow. I would be willing to change my crown if and only Adam Sandler if you're listening. You want you want to call them the movie too happy to Gilmore.
01:16:33
Yeah, I'd be game right there. That'd be worth it. But other than that, yeah, I think it's got to be Final Cut and uh 23
01:16:41
and me. The the great genetic mishap of 2025. That sounds so There you have it. What better way to kick us into trivia questions? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh,
01:16:54
and also by the time you watch this next week, the Switch 2 will have just come out. Nintendo
01:17:00
Switch, sorry. By the time you watch the next episode, no. If you watch this episode next week, the Nintendo Switch 2
01:17:07
will have been out. Also true. Are you leaving? Ignore me. I just keep thinking about Nintendo Switch. Welcome back to
01:17:13
the Ellis Knows Ball tech podcast. Uh, let's see. Today's question is about Korean basketball teams with tech companies in their name. I've got three in front of me. Are they real or are
01:17:26
they fake? More specifically, which one is fake? Yep. With D being all of the above. This is the most backwards way.
01:17:33
Which one is real? That one. Yeah. Which one is real? Which one? No, no, no, no,
01:17:38
no, no. I was Which which one is fake? No. Which one is fake? I I have it in front of me. I'm right. I wrote the question. Oh, okay. I said which one is
01:17:44
not real. Got it. Oh. Oh. One of these is fake. Okay. Yeah. Which one is not real? Which one is not real? Which one
01:17:51
is fake? Yeah. Two. And D is all of them are real. Correct. D is is is this is a
01:17:56
truth bomb. It's fake that all of them are real. Is that what it would be? Hit it, Adam. Okay. The soul Samsung
01:18:05
thunders. B. The Changan LG Sakers. C. The Olsson Hyundai Mobus Feebis. Uh, that's it. Hyundai Olsson Hyundai Mobus Feebas or
01:18:20
D. They are all real KBL teams. [Music] Took a stab. I knew you guys were going to say D and so I'll either lose a point or gain a point here. Marquez, would you
01:18:36
like to go first? I think the sole Samsung Thunders is made up. No, that is a real Korean basketball team. Is it C?
01:18:45
We all put D. And you are all wrong. Correct. Those are all real Korean basketball teams. The worst. That That is bad. Gain my lead. Those are bad names. Thank you K A Sports Talk at
01:18:59
YouTube.com uh for teaching me how to pronounce all of these Korean basketball team and city names. Quick update
01:19:06
underscore. Marquez with 25. Andrew with 14. David in the lead with 29. All right, this question comes to us again from listener Rayhon. So, what was the first iPhone to have a gyroscope?
01:19:23
And what was the demo that introduced the tech? One point [Music] each. Marquez does not know. He's stalling. Andrew is staring up at the
01:19:35
sky, praying for an answer. Demo. Demo. David is trying to understand how to say
01:19:41
the word demo. Demolition. Look at this stupid demo they did back then. [Music] God, I don't remember the demo.
01:19:52
Can't think of a demo. And flip them and read. What do we got? If it's really the
01:19:57
beer, I'm going to be so sad. Uh, I said ice iPhone 3GS. No. And what was the demo? I did the beer app. The beer app. Yeah. No. I Oh, sorry. I said the iPhone 3GS.
01:20:11
iPhone 3GS as well. Was it 3G? And I thought it was also like pouring a liquid. Maybe like water or something,
01:20:19
but I don't remember. Is it the gun one? No, there's no way. Tim Cook on stage. I'm sure iPhone 4. Four. Correct. Oh, wow. And what was the Watch out everyone, I'm coming. You didn't write
01:20:34
an answer. I don't know what the I was like all I can think of is like some sort of like maps or something like
01:20:39
that. I'm surprised it's too early for maps. No, the demo was Jenga. Didn't the iPod I want to see what this looks like. Didn't the iPod touch have a gyroscope the first one? Yes. iPhone 4.
01:20:52
I thought the iPod touch came out alongside the 3G. Yes, it was either right after or right before. It must have been before the four or around the four maybe. But the question was what was the first iPhone to have? was
01:21:04
probably around the four. Yeah, you guys said the 3GS, which does have an accelerometer, but not a multiaxis
01:21:10
gyroscope. You can see where we might have gotten that wrong, cuz accelerometers gyroscopes are very easy to similar. You got it wrong. Sorry.
01:21:18
Yeah. All right. Well, congrats, Andrew, on the point. That was He's uh the comeback train all aboard. Uh but yeah, thank you guys for watching and for listening and of course for subscribing as we know you are. And of course, we'll
01:21:31
catch you guys with our next regularly scheduled programming very soon. Yeah. Wash those dishes. Peace. I think
01:21:37
they've finished them by now, right? The weirdest. Oh, I got to put them all back in the sink.
01:21:43
Waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roin. We're partner with Vox Media Podcast Network and Music was created by Vein Still. Bingo. Let's go.
01:21:55
[Music] Wait, they added adjustment layers in Final Cut. Yeah. Officially. Uhhuh.