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This podcast is so gross. Marquez, I'm sorry because I came to work and I I I really gave it my best
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effort. I just tried to make a good podcast while you were gone and then all this happened. I'm sorry.
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What is up people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm
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David. And I'm Andrew. And I'm David. And um today we got a lot of stuff going on. As you might have
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noticed, Marquez is gone. He's gone. What? I know. Where'd he go? I know we sound the same, but he's gone. Oh my god. I have no idea. Yeah, he's out being hot on a beach.
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He's throwing frisbes. Um I asked him, "Why are you doing world championships again? I thought you already won." Listen, I'm an ultimate player. Even this one's confusing. He was like, "I'm gone for worlds." And
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I was like, "You just we did a whole episode of your your trophy." Anyway, he's doing that on a beach now, so good luck, I guess. Um, anyway, we got a lot of stuff to talk about this week. We
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barely missed the Steam announcement last week, which is a bunch of new Steam hardware, which is very exciting. Uh,
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Student Up Pachai did us a big favor and dropped Gemini 3 on a Tuesday, so we're actually able to talk about it
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relatively on time. We're only going to be 4 days late this week. And we've got a few other things like uh Rabbit being
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a bad company again. Um what else? Oh yeah, Cloudflare took down the internet again. We got a lot of fun stuff for you. All the usual suspects. All the usual suspects. Um so also we
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launched new merch this week. We did. So I think we should talk about that real quick. We're going to do it real quick. This has been a long time coming. Um cuz our
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team's been like really going hard on this for a while. um getting everything set up on the shop and getting all the
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designs and all those samples and making sure prints are correct. But we're really really pumped about this. I think
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most importantly is like as a big channel it's really easy to just throw a logo on a shirt and sell it to an audience and that's something Marquez has not wanted to do and I think the design team really took
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it to heart in this one where all of these shirts for we have one for each channel right now. Um, if you were to
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look at it, I don't think you would immediately say that's MKBHD or that's a like YouTuber merch. It would be like
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that's a cool design. And then if you know, you know, which is kind of what we were going for, kind of the vibe. Yeah. So, we have um I'm wearing the
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waveform shirt right now. So, is Adam. Adam looks cooler cuz Adam has a jacket on. Um, that's not the only reason. It's like a
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purpley color with um kind of the top of the MKBHD logo that like waves and patterns out almost like the Joy Division. Yeah, it kind of looks like the Joy Division. We also have an autofocus one that uh
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David's wearing right now, which is a red camera with like a manual shifting knob and a tire as the focus ring.
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Um that's probably my favorite design. So, I like it a lot. Ellis is wearing our main channel. It's
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kind of like the logo spinning around uh in a cool pattern. And then no one has the studio one here, but it's basically
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our studio logo deconstructed in just a bunch of really cool colors. Uh great uh the shirts fit really nice. They're great material. I think it's the best merch we've ever done. Yeah. Um so just big shout out to Tim, Olivia,
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Brandon, Vin, Jonno, and even our old intern David. I think he's the one who maybe pitched the waveform design. Yeah.
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So uh he's not here anymore, but they all worked really, really hard. Yeah. On all of this. No, it's legit.
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Very good. And I'm, you know, I know you're not going to believe me cuz we're selling it, but it actually is good.
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I mean, look for it yourself. We took like, we had a a professional photographer come in and we took photos.
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Um, the photos are cool. They're really good. Adam looks really good in his. It's funny because I showed my fiance
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just the pictures and she was like, "You never dress like this, but you look cool." That's Well, because we had the
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photographer, but we also had Brandon and Vin dressing all of us. So, they were like styling us. Yes, I wore
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none of my own clothes that day. I think I wore your jacket. There was also a great tweet. Uh Olivia, our one of our graphic designers, she
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was wearing this red hat with the studio shirt and uh someone on Twitter had posted like Pokemon trainer cosplay.
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Um anyway, yeah, check that out on the store, but until then, until you do that, we're going to be talking at you.
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So, let's talk about the new Steam devices. Um because that's the first thing that happened last week that we barely missed
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because it happened literally Wednesday afternoon. I think it happened or all the videos came out on Thursday. Uh yeah,
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I thought it was Wednesday. Lionus's video came out on Thursday. Well, maybe he's just late. Maybe. I think they just had an embargo time
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probably because there were some videos that came out Wednesday nights, did they? Yeah, because I remember thinking like I'm mad
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that we missed it, but thank god we missed it because I would have known nothing about it. Right. Dave was on the 12th. So yeah,
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Wednesday afternoon. All right. Well, to give you guys a little bit of context, the Steam Machine is this idea that
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Valve has had for a very long time. Valve is the company that makes Steam. It is the biggest gaming platform in the
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world. It runs on computers and you can play everything on it. And there's been this transition over the last few years
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of, you know, you used to be able to have a console where you played on your TV or you had like a handheld device
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like a Nintendo DS or something, but there was never really this like melding of the two. And considering Steam has
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like so almost every game ever made besides like Nintendo games on it um and maybe some exclusives to like consoles. Yeah, there's some I think more gaming companies are making their own launchers
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like Battleet and Epic. Um but I mean it clearly has the most amount of games period on a single and it's like the most affordable. They're very Steam is very famous. Everyone who's listening to this
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probably already knows this, but like Steam is very famous for its like insane mega sales during the summer and during the spring and like everyone that has
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Steam has way too many games that they've never played. It's a both a waste of money and also very fun to just
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collect software. Anyway, a number of years ago, Valve released the original Steam machines.
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And the idea of this was like, okay, we can kind of split the difference between being a gaming PC and a console. You
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should be able to just have something hooked up to your TV. You should be able to play it with a controller because I
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mean it's just a gaming console after all. But Valve is very hardcore about things working on Linux. It's all this
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stuff. Um that was a colossal failure because they Valve has also been very much pro third party and when they launched the original Steam machines they launched them with a bunch of
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different companies that were doing it. There was like Alienware and there was ASUS and there was all these different
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configurations and to be honest it was just very confusing. Those companies were needed to make margin all of this
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stuff. And so now what what Valve is doing after the success of the Steam Deck which came out a couple of years
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ago. Two years ago I think two years ago. Couple years ago. I recently took ours from the office and I've been playing it
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nonstop. I'm I think it's just the first one but I'm obsessed with it. Mhm. So, like Valve kind of took the idea of
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what the Switch had done by, you know, making a console that could be plugged into your TV or played remotely and it
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put like a whole a whole computer into a handheld console, which was really cool. That was super popular. And it kind of
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created this wave of new handheld gaming PCs that people are using. There's an Asus one that's very popular. There's a
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Lenovo one that's very popular. Uh, and now they decided to re-enter the Steam Machine world. So, we have three new announcements from Valve. Number one is
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the Steam Machine again, but this time it is a small cube. Mhm. And it's kind of like optimized for
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Steam in a number of ways. And they're trying to create a little bit of an ecosystem because as I mentioned before,
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them going to a bunch of third parties was like that is good for choice, but it makes it hard to kind of sell a bunch of
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stuff together that works really well together. So, all the hardware that they announced specifically works well together. So, the new Steam machine is
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this small cube. It's running a semi-custom AMD solution with a Zen 4 CPU with peak frequencies of 4.8 GHz
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boost and it has an RDNA3 GPU running at 2.5 4 GHz uh that sustains a 110 watt TDP. Uh, this is specifically designed to hit pretty much every single game on
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Steam at 4K 60 fps. That is their goal with this, which is a pretty big ask. Um, specifically obviously that's using FSR, so it's like upscaling and and that kind of stuff. But
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the point is that you should be able to, you know, plug this into your TV and just like jump on any game on Steam, hit
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60 fps, 4K, really cool. I think that's a reasonable target. Also, 4K 60 because like we're looking
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at this as more of a console, right? Like I know PC gamers love to get way higher than that at a bunch of different crazy things with really really expensive machines, but this isn't quite
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going after that market. This is a sit down on your couch and play. It is interesting though because it is
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also a full PC. Agreed. But like but what this is going at like this doesn't need to run 4K 300 FPS like crazy stuff that people can run on a
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$8,000 PC. It's like it's it's a computer that is made to be played on your couch that can run all your Steam
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games. So, they didn't announce a price yet. It is going to be probably more expensive than the traditional consoles, but
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that's because it has more access to more software and it runs Steam OS. I spent so long on PC parts picker
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trying to like figure out more or less what this would beish, like what it could cost. Like what it could cost. Yeah. And I
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found something like the configuration I got and I was like posting about this and people kept going back and forth with me like what they got, what I got.
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Like it seems like the average is like anywhere from 800 to like a,000ish. Like the cheapest thing you can get that you
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would feel comfortable actually getting it to play. But then someone replied to me and they
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made a good point which is like they probably have deals that they can get with the like chip manufacturers and
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stuff like that that they're making these like massive orders with to get the price even lower guarantee. in. So, if it could be like
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$500, $600, I think it's going to be more than that. I think so. I think it'll be I think it'll be like $7.99. That's where I was like landing.
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But if if it's like $600, I think that's a steal. That would be awesome. A really good thing Lionus brought up was Well, first of all, he said this will
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probably be they told him no price yet, but more closely resembling a PC than a gaming console. So, I think we automatically go over $500 on that, right? Um, but not only that, but like
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what consoles can do is because when you buy a new console, there's x amount of games that can subsidize the price of a
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console because those are so expensive and you have to buy new games pretty much to buy those where this is running
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Steam. You could X amount of these could ship out and you don't buy a single game for it because
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you have a library already and it's just a PC you can install stuff on. So like they actually make money on the
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hardware. They have to really make money on the hardware for this. So, it's most likely going to be
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I think 750 is like a a reasonable guess, but I wouldn't doubt if it's on closer to a,000 than 500.
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Yeah. Yeah. I feel like they just have to be careful though because if it's too expensive, you could just build it your own. Like
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you can't upgrade some parts of this. So, it's like there are certain things in this that you can't really build your own in terms
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of like connections with the controllers. Like they have better um antennas and stuff inside of it. There
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was a specifically the HDMI port being able to connect to your TV and wake the uh the console itself through your TV remote and like through that you wouldn't really be able to do that on a
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regular PC being hooked up to it. So there are some benefits to this being like yeah really made top down
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connecting to your TV. There are a lot of optimizations like it has super fast p like
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pause and wake where it can be the game can be sort of in a suspended state for months on end and then you press one
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button and it's instantly back to it. So they have a lot of optimizations around that on Steam Deck that works incredibly. The
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game I'm playing right now is called Slay the Spire. It's been around forever but it's like you did start playing it
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really fun. It's pretty addictive. I could see though that game way better to play on a Steam Deck when you're sitting on a
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couch because by my PC I have to like kind of just get up and down and up and down. Yeah. Yeah. But like being able to just because it's turnbased
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at any time when anything happens I can just put the controller down and sleep it and it could be 3 days later and I
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could be in the middle of the same turn. So I'm assuming this is going to do the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. The IO uh ports are a little
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disappointing. They went with a lot of USBA ports and only one USBC port. Um I saw people complaining about this. Yeah, I I would love for them to move towards USBC. I I do think that a lot of the
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traditional like gaming hardware and PC hardware is still utilizing USBA. So, that's probably why they were thinking
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that. Um, but one USBC port just seems like a small amount. Either way, you're probably not even going to be using the
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ports that much. So, the way you charge the controller is through this magnetic puck that doubles as a 2.4 4 GHz connection to the um game
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itself, but that plug plugs in and then charges the controller as well. Assuming the back side of that is a USBA
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that it comes with. I guess it's just USBC on the other side. You're probably plugging straight into the front of it. So, that's what the USB port's for.
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It could be C and could just be C to C. That would probably be better, but yeah, I don't know. Uh it has 16 gigs of RAM
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and 8 gigs of VRAM. Uh, yeah. So, it's also quite I don't want to say modular, but they're releasing CAD files for it. So, you're you should be able to replace the front panel with anything you want.
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There's already a company that is making like e- in displays and stuff for it. Um, and different types of stuff that
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you can run on it. Like you can show the like temperatures of different components. It was running like bench or not
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benchmarks, but like specs and like heats and like graphs on the front through an e- in display because it's just a magnetic snap on on the front of
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it. Um, which some people had like wooden textures on it. I'm sure Dbrand's going to go crazy because it's flat.
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People have been joking that this is a GameCube because it literally is a GameCube. And Dbrand has already
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announced that they are selling a GameCube wrap that makes it look like a GameCube. This is like as a console that's going
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to live in a living room of people that live in a house. Thank you for not making this absurd.
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Like the PS5 to me still is insane. That's like does not fit into anything. No, I'm not putting that on my TV
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console. It just seems crazy. So, like not only that, but then making it modular on the front to be able to
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possibly add accents to it that would fit with the general aesthetic of a living room to not have to be everyone's
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gaming dungeon is awesome. Yeah. Um, and did you see the LED the like user customizable LED bar on it?
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Yes. That's fantastic. One of the ways like basically between the magnetic gap and
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the power buttons and IO ports on the front, there's a little IO bar that users can define what that will show or
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LED bar. I forgot what I said. But um one of the ways you could do it is if you're downloading a game, it can show
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the progress of the downloading. So you could change the channel, watch TV while it's downloading, and then know how long
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you have until it's finished and then swap back. Like people are going to think of some really cool stuff to do on
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that. Yeah, I love the idea. I don't play video games at all, so I I I have literally no interest in this product.
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But I love the idea reading. I love the idea of uh a living room PC. Like the idea of a PC with an OS that's like optimized to be on a TV several feet away from you. I feel like, and
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this is going to sound crazy, but they Nintendo sort of attempted this with the Wii in the way that the home screen was laid out and the way that they handled screen savers and there was a web
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browser and like, you know, true. And I feel like we we haven't really come close to something that that's as
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pleasant. Yeah. To have running in a living room. So, I would even consider buying this as
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someone who doesn't. Actually, I do have a Steam account. There you go. Everyone has a Steam account. everyone
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has. But um I don't know. I want someone to make the non-gamer version of this. What would that look like?
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What's something that's like more optimized for web browsing? I I guess it's the thing I said. It's like it's like an OS.
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You say webOS. We dude, don't even get me started on web OS. I've been the biggest defender
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of LG TVs ever since I bought one. Like this blows Samsung out of the water. I love my s my LG TV.
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We was it 25 or 26? The one that came out last week. Is it bad? It's good. No, it's terrible. It's so terrible. I
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can't even I'll derail the Steam talk. It's like It's like It's worse. Get this.
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It's worse than AI overviews. It's like, what were you thinking? Life's good. What were you thinking? They should call They should rename the company LB cuz life's bad if you get web
00:17:06
25 or 26 or whatever. God damn, it sucks. So, don't update. PSA. Yeah. Don't update. Yeah. Okay.
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There's a there's a memory leak issue. There's a memory leak issue if you for any app that uses the built-in media
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player, which is all streaming apps. And most LG TVs have like one gig of internal me. It dude, it's like sh and then and then by default it turns your screen savers into ads. So if you don't
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do anything on your TV, it displays a it's just like what is wrong? Sorry. Sorry. But just like ooh you ruined my
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TV, LG. All right. Well, to bring us back, yeah, let's talk. Do you think Linux gaming is going to be
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a thing now? Because I've been seeing a lot of movement of people trying to leave Windows because of the whole
00:17:52
Yeah, I've been seeing that, too. And everyone's going to be like, "Oh, finally we have like a Linux alternative
00:17:57
but I've been hearing that for a decade." I've been also hearing that for a dec specifically for the gaming aspect now and it it is also becoming a little Well, I would say PCs specifically.
00:18:12
Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah, cuz I no one I know is buying a Mac to game. That's what Yeah, exactly.
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But it's kind of like people are buying Macs for like work and creative work and then they're buying the a PC just for
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gaming. There's not a lot of reason to just buy a Windows computer anymore just as a general purpose computer. Um, I
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think Lionus actually just did a video about how good the M5s are and like how it's very hard to justify a Windows
00:18:36
computer at this point. So, I could see like a movement in the industry more towards things running
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Linux that have like a a gaming skin on top of them. Mhm. I think that the the idea of having a
00:18:49
dedicated gaming computer is getting much more normalized. So, we'll see that. I'll let you guys talk about Linux. I
00:18:56
know nothing. I'm not saying anything about this. Well, shout out to uh Damian Wild from
00:19:02
9to5 Google. He's been on his personal channel going like deep dive after deep dive in Linux gaming and it's very
00:19:07
interesting. Very cool. Uh so, there's a couple of ecosystem optimizations in the cube. Uh, one is
00:19:13
that it has a micro SD card slot. And the idea of this is that if you have a Steam Deck, the Steam Deck has a micro SD card slot.
00:19:19
And that's where you mostly put your game library and like your save data. So, you can quickly just when you get
00:19:25
home, take your micro SD card out of your Steam Deck and put it in the Steam Cube and then suddenly you just have
00:19:30
everything and it's all local. You don't have to download anything. It's pretty awesome. They also have a specialized
00:19:36
antenna inside of the Steam Cube for the Steam Control, the new Steam Controller, which we will get to. The Steam Cube.
00:19:43
Yeah, it's the Steam Machine. It's It's a GameCube. Steam Machine. Awesome name, by the way.
00:19:49
Yeah, I love it. Yeah, GameCube is better. I'm sorry. Can't wait for Steam Machine 720.
00:19:54
Yeah. All right. Uh there's a new Steam Controller, which we'll talk about now. Uh it's kind of an evolution of Hey,
00:20:01
man. When you got to talk on the fly, you got to add some filler. It's kind of an evolution of the last Steam controller that they released a number of years ago. Really freaking weird
00:20:12
controller because they introduced these touch pads that are basically ways to interact with games that traditionally
00:20:18
did not work with just controllers and were made for mouse and keyboard. And they added those touchpads onto the
00:20:24
Steam Deck. And that ended up being very popular and people really liked it. So they now have kind of evolved this
00:20:31
concept, made them bigger, made them more concave, and uh now you have this massive controller that is kind of just like this bigger evolution of the older one. Really cool feature. New tunnel
00:20:44
magnettoresistance magnetic thumb sticks, which is better than Hall effect apparently. They're also magnetic like Hall effect, but they have lower power use and they
00:20:55
minimize the dead zones. Um, wait, what what does any of that mean? Okay, so we've talked about Hall effect
00:21:01
before that. Andrew should actually explain this because he knows more about Hall effect on keyboard, which I'm
00:21:06
assuming it's the same. It'll be pretty similar. It's it's basically on a regular keyboard switch,
00:21:12
the when you press down a key, it's moving uh a piece into a leaf. So when two pieces of metal connect, that can send something to the the board underneath, right? And create a
00:21:24
keystroke. Magnetic is when the key gets pushed down, there's a piece of metal that is now making a magnetic sort of connection. Magnetic field field. Yeah, I guess however it connects
00:21:35
to the board. Um, and with that, you can change the range of how much you need to
00:21:41
push that down. And it could be much faster. Yeah. So presumably grind against itself down
00:21:48
pretty much. I mean, it's a spring in a keyboard switch, but yeah, there's no real connecting parts doing that.
00:21:53
Yeah. Which is cool. Also, it may it means that it should last a lot longer. These are apparently even better than Hall effect. And it's really nice seeing
00:21:59
a company do this because notably on the Nintendo Switch One, they did not and the OLED, they did not use Hall effect.
00:22:06
And the the Joy-Con drift issue where pretty much everyone's JoyCons would eventually just start like moving left
00:22:12
constantly. I appreciate that you tried to like isolate it to the Nintendo Switch One,
00:22:17
but the Nintendo Switch 2 Well, I was just going to say they have not updated. Everyone was like, "Oh, they're definitely going to because it
00:22:24
was this is the main problem from the Switch One was the Joy-Con drift. They didn't update it. They said that they
00:22:29
made the chasm like bigger, but I they didn't. It's the same parts basically." So, that's sad.
00:22:34
And so, Steam just went out and said, "We'll go one step further." Not two steps further because not only are we going to do Hall Effect, we're
00:22:40
going to do the better version of Hall Effect, which is really cool. Um, they have a they have grip sense in the controller which can sense how hard
00:22:47
you're squeezing it. Yeah. my so I was listening to these there are also four buttons behind
00:22:55
was that part of was that part of the grip sense so like one of the features that you can do with the controller is
00:23:01
if you're using the gyro controls in it at any point if you want to reset where the center of like the gyro is you can
00:23:08
unsqueeze the controller right was that by squeezing those buttons on the back or was the controller itself
00:23:14
actually by gripping the buttons on the back you can reset your gyro so it's less of a squeeze it's more of having pressure points on the buttons
00:23:21
like that are on the back of the handle itself, which is a really cool feature. And I think you can also, according to
00:23:29
Dave's video, if you're like you can use the gyro as a mouse cursor essentially,
00:23:34
which is another point on top of now the touchpads of like games that might not be optimized perfectly for controller
00:23:41
versus a mouse cursor, right? Um, also you will be able to see it in the Steam Frame, which is the VR
00:23:46
headset we're going to talk about. uh soon, which is kind of similar to in the Apple Vision Pro, you can see the Magic
00:23:52
Keyboard and the Magic Mouse only and I think they added like a Logitech keyboard, but yeah, it kind of like
00:23:57
peers through. Apparently, that will happen in the Steam Frame, which is cool. Um, it charges via this magnetic puck
00:24:04
that we talked about a little bit earlier. It's kind of this it's a wire that comes out of the front of the steam frame that connects it to it, but that
00:24:10
wire acts as a um as an antenna, right? And it has a 2.4 GHz. I believe the the puck itself is a small almost ovalshaped I mean I don't even know what to compare
00:24:24
it to. It's very small. Yeah. And what the puck does is there's like a three pin magnetic uh place on the back of the
00:24:31
controller and can magnetic onto it and then with that it's going to connect to your Steam machine through its own
00:24:38
separate 2.4 GHz connection which is awesome. So you have like it's like 8 milliseconds of latency. you're losing
00:24:44
the don't have to deal with the Bluetooth latency stuff and all you have to do is slap it on the back of your controller
00:24:49
or you could use Bluetooth normally, but like that's awesome. And then what that does is that just then can plug into a
00:24:55
USBC port or I think it has USBC on it and that doubles as the charging pass through to charge the controllers which
00:25:01
I think have like 30 hours of battery life. I think they said that. Um, but I think
00:25:07
I'm a big 2.4 4 GHz stand as like someone who, you know, I always use dongles for mice or keyboards when they're wireless when I have the option to. Everyone in this
00:25:17
office uses Bluetooth and it drives me insane even though it probably works totally fine, but I am a dongle
00:25:23
fan and I think that is such a cool way to just make sure that all your controllers have their own individual
00:25:29
uh connection. I can't believe you still use a mouse pleb. Sorry. All right. Uh and then the last thing they announced was the Steam frame. So, this is a new VR headset. It's kind of
00:25:41
the sec the next VR headset from Valve after the Valve Index that came out a number of years ago. Uh, it is powered by a Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 processor, which
00:25:51
is interesting. It runs Steam OS, been in development since 2019, and it supports both VR and nonVR games. So,
00:25:58
not only can it do, you know, VR games like you're used to, like HalfLife Alex, but you can also play a Steam game where
00:26:03
it's just in a big floating window in front of you. And um I think that's kind of like a learning from the Vision Pro,
00:26:10
from the Oculus Quest, that kind of stuff. It has a modular design, so you're able to take three different
00:26:17
parts off of the headset, so you can use like a third party strap accessory for it. So that way it's not it's not just
00:26:23
one sizefits-all. Um it kind of works like a ski mask by default. Ski goggles. Ski goggles, right? That's different. They are different. That's different. Uh, and from people
00:26:34
that have tested it, they have said that it's a little bit hard to adjust when you first do it, but you really only have to adjust it once and then it
00:26:41
should fit on pretty perfectly after that. Um, they are pri prioritizing gaming performance over other XR things.
00:26:48
So, it's not supposed to be like a multi-use kind of like XR headset. They're like this is a gaming VR headset
00:26:55
very specifically. I think the biggest uh thing that proves that is it's black and white pass
00:27:01
through. Yeah, it's black and so you have pass through, but it Yeah, it's black and white. So, they're not prioritizing that.
00:27:06
Um, they have controllers that come with it that update 200 to 250 times per second, same as the Valve Index. And they have IR cameras on the inside that track your eye movement. And the reason
00:27:17
they do this is because they have fiated rendering, which if you don't know what that is, it it renders the things you
00:27:23
are looking at at a high resolution and then everything around that it renders at a very low resolution. But it's fiated like
00:27:30
streaming is what they're calling it, which is crazy. Yeah, because it's like it basically can tell where you're looking and know that's the part of the
00:27:36
game to stream at a higher bit rate. Um to the point where I think did Dave say there was a demo where they played a
00:27:43
game where it's not even that it did the outside parts of it as lower frame rate
00:27:49
or lower band uh bit rate, but it was just dark and he was trying to like ping his eyes around to try and catch it and
00:27:56
was having a hard time. Yeah. because there are there are 18 infrared cameras that update every 8 to 12 milliseconds
00:28:02
to track where your eyes are looking so that it can Yeah, it's it's pretty awesome. Yeah, I was when I heard the fiated
00:28:09
streaming thing I was like at what point do you spend so much money and everything and I'm sure there's a really easy question to or answer to this, but like you're doing all of this stuff to save on
00:28:22
performance. At what point does it cost that much more money to put in 18 IR cameras over just like having everything
00:28:30
render well at a higher bit rate? I mean, you'd have to have a much like more powerful processor which takes more
00:28:36
power. It's just cool how much you have to go into using less power. I crypto and AI were not a thing. Do you think we wouldn't be doing the fiated rendering at all? Like just because
00:28:49
chips would be that much cheaper? Oh, I have no idea. I'll blame crypto if you want me to.
00:28:55
It's crypto's fault. It's crypto's fault. Uh but that enables 250 megabit megabit per second over
00:29:02
Wi-Fi 7 and the end toend latency is about 10 to 20 milliseconds which is very short uh for streaming to a VR
00:29:10
headset because this is the thing that the headset itself can run games just dedicated inside of the headset because
00:29:15
you can run on the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3. Obviously, that's not going to be powerful enough for enough stuff. So, what they really want you to do is
00:29:21
stream from something like your Steam Frame, which also has two. So, the headset has two dedicated Wi-Fi antennas. There's a Wi-Fi 6 antenna, which is only for the the game
00:29:35
streaming. It is dedicated to the game streaming. So, there's no other network traffic on it. So, it can just push all
00:29:41
of that game streaming data directly with nothing else happening. And then it has another uh band that is just used
00:29:48
for general internet things like being updated and all of that kind of stuff. So it's very very targeted at just being
00:29:54
able to do that. There's actually no tethered mode available on this headset. Um most other VR headsets you can like
00:30:00
plug into your computer and go through a cable. They don't want you to have to do that because they want to they're like
00:30:06
we want you to have more free movement as long as you have line of sight to your your Steam machine or Wi-Fi 7
00:30:12
router which not a lot of people have. So, the Steam machine makes a little more sense. Uh, you should be able to have pretty much no latency issues. So,
00:30:20
as cool as the the Steam What is that headset called? Frame. Frame. Steam frame. Yeah, that's cool. But who cares?
00:30:28
I feel like the coolest thing announced was the Steam Machine. Like, everyone is so hyped about the little box.
00:30:34
And this was just like like why even announce this? Yeah. I like No, I just I agree and don't
00:30:40
agree with you. It's like it's cool. The Steam Machine is the coolest thing. I also agree. It's really
00:30:47
hard. I assuming the frame is going to be closer to $1,000. There's no pricing on
00:30:54
it yet. It's so hard when Quest 3 is 500 bucks. Yeah. Like it's just going to be tough to do.
00:30:59
But you can play your Steam library. You can play your Steam library. It's like twothirds of people playing VR on Steam are playing it on a metaquest.
00:31:06
Well, is there I don't know if it's your full Steam library, but you can play Steam games on there. So, it's it's that's going to be
00:31:13
the tough part is like if you are really big into VR gaming, you're probably there's probably
00:31:19
something like this. If you really really hate meta, there's another reason to do it. It's
00:31:24
how much money do you want to spend to stick it to meta, which there are probably plenty of people to do that, but I think we all agree the machine's
00:31:31
the coolest part about this. I mean, the controller is really cool, too, but it feels like part of the machine launch.
00:31:36
Yeah, again, it's an ecosystem play. They're really selling the machine. The thing about the machine that's a little
00:31:42
disappointing is you cannot upgrade the CPU or GPU. Um, you can upgrade the storage pretty easily. You can you can
00:31:49
technically upgrade the RAM, but it's much harder. Uh, but yeah, the CPU, GPU are kind of like set in there. So, do
00:31:55
kind of like buying a console in that way. Like, will people be able to open this up and find a way to do it? People find
00:32:01
a way. Yeah, they're soldered in and it's a custom motherboard. So, no, it's really I mean to get it that small
00:32:07
like this is it's small even compared to small PCs. Like it is crazy how they got
00:32:13
everything in there. Listen, people will find out how to do stuff on this. They always do. Um, but I think
00:32:20
it's it's definitely is the like the pros and cons of this are which way does it
00:32:26
which way does it lean towards a PC or a console? And the upgradeability is definitely on the it's better than a
00:32:31
console cuz you can stick an M.2 stick in there and get way more storage than like a an Xbox or a PlayStation, but um
00:32:40
like the rest of the stuff it's just going to have to have a life cycle like a console. And I personally think that's
00:32:48
fine. I think you're opening it up to so many games out there on a Steam library.
00:32:53
I think so many games on the Steam library when you start looking at indie developers play really well on a TV with
00:32:58
a controller like like I said I've been having so much fun with the Steam Deck and a lot of these like different rogike
00:33:04
games would be awesome on just a TV laying on the couch rather than at my computer and this makes that part
00:33:10
everyone who's played PC games envisions like their old PC getting shoved into their media console and being like on their backup gaming system on like a TV, but that's such a pain in the neck and
00:33:22
doesn't flow well. So, this being able to do that is awesome and I'm super excited. Valve said like 15 to 20% of people who
00:33:29
own Steam Decks have it plugged into the TV most of the time and that is the reason they made this because it's way
00:33:35
more it's way more powerful. So, it's kind of addressing that market of people that mostly do couch gaming.
00:33:40
Yeah. And I think like a really good number in terms of if you want to gauge powerfulness, I know you were like
00:33:45
comparing specs and everything. They said it's supposed to be six times as powerful as the Steam Deck. Yeah. which is I mean
00:33:52
to me that means nothing because I've never used the Steam Deck so it's like that's fair. I don't know
00:33:57
that is that like you know Apple six times more powerful or is that like graph it's just vague graph?
00:34:04
Yeah all day battery life. Yeah, I'm also six times more powerful than the Steam Deck. I think there will
00:34:10
be tons tons of games that are going to run flawlessly exactly how you want them to and then the higher echelon of games
00:34:17
will be like, "Okay, this isn't running like it is with my 1580 on my computer for this to be out so everyone can like run the benchmarks and play the games and do the things cuz
00:34:28
I'm so on the fence with this. Like I don't know if I want it or not because one pricing. I think it really
00:34:34
depends on pricing but two I think also performance. Like I'm really curious to see how it performs because I'm not
00:34:39
spending hundreds of dollars on something that I'm going to have to upgrade and I can't even upgrade it in like three or four years.
00:34:45
Are you okay with 4K 60 on every game that you want to play? I don't know. Do you What consoles do you own? I have a PS5 and it's fine. And I have
00:34:57
the PS. Do it. There it is. Nice. Sorry. It's all right. No, I have a PS5, but that's like when I get the
00:35:09
PlayStation when they come out every 10 years or whatever, I kind of know like, okay, I'm just stuck with whatever this
00:35:14
is. Like, I feel like the point of Steam and Steam games is that if a game comes out that I really want to play, I could
00:35:20
just upgrade something for 150 bucks and then now I could play that game, you know, on your computer.
00:35:26
Yeah. If I had like a computer, like a PC computer. So, like I can't do that with this thing. To me, that's why like
00:35:31
I think this is really cool because it's just replacing that cycle of a console now. Like if this is the console I like
00:35:38
because the games I prefer are on Steam and a lot of the games on Steam that I like I would prefer to play on my TV in
00:35:44
like a like I'd much rather sit down on my couch and play a game with a controller than sit at my desk with a
00:35:51
controller. Um like the games I like to play on the computer are like Valerant or Overwatch.
00:35:56
They're things that I mean there's console overwatch but you have two inches between your eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Like I my nose is touching
00:36:02
the screen and I'm screaming and like it literally puts me in a bad mood all day. I want to sit down on my couch and enjoy
00:36:08
some things. Pause it. When Claire does say pause, I don't have to be like, I can't pause the game,
00:36:13
Claire. Like that. I want that to be a game I can pause and walk away from. The computer games are for stressing
00:36:20
yourself out. The the TV games are for enjoyment and relaxation. Well, that's kind of where I guess my my thinking
00:36:26
about all of this goes. Like, is this more taking aim to replace PC people or is this trying to replace consoles?
00:36:32
I think it's trying to replace consoles, but with the variety of the games you can play on Steam. Yeah, I think there's so many people who are play on computer and on consoles,
00:36:44
and I think this is like ideal for them without having to buy a PlayStation now.
00:36:49
They can have the same library between the two of them. Also, in the last couple years, there's been a massive rise of like indie games, and I think
00:36:56
indie games are very well suited for the TV. I Perfect example. I told you about Slay the Spire the
00:37:02
other day. I bought it for eight bucks. For you to buy it on your Switch was like $30, wasn't it? Yeah.
00:37:07
Steam sales are got it on Steam, I believe. Oh, you did? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But I did buy Hades 2, which was $30.
00:37:14
Yeah, I think Hades 2 is my next buy. It's Yeah, it's fine. It's very good. I've heard it's really good.
00:37:20
So, that's that. Um, we're a week late over. It's going to be almost two weeks at this point once you hear it. But I
00:37:25
hope that um, hearing it out of our mouths was a better experience for some hopefully. And if it's not, I already
00:37:32
know what comment you're going to make. Like, lol, these people shouldn't talk about games. So there, I already made it for you. You don't have to. True.
00:37:37
Thanks. I'm casual. God, I hate when these people talk about games. They know nothing. Although, I'm not casual in Dota 2 cuz I
00:37:43
have almost 6,000 hours. Yeah, but what's your rank? We don't talk about I'm really bad. I keep playing it. Anyway, um if you're
00:37:55
not good at Speaking of really bad, if you're not good at a game, you're good at other stuff, right? Like I don't
00:38:00
waste my time trying to get good at a video game. Okay. I don't have 6,000 hours.
00:38:06
Yeah, but I'm trying to get good. I could waste more hours trying to get good, but I intentionally
00:38:12
trying. Anyway, let's move on. Well, speaking of rabbits, rabbit the company, what happened? Where was the rabbits
00:38:17
beforehand? When were we ask the the rabbits game with the white the raven rabbits? The rabbit that's Nintendo. Well, Raymond Raymond is not Nintendo, but the the rabbids x Mario collab is
00:38:31
Nintendo. Okay. I played that one. Anyways, um there's a recent article from Jason
00:38:36
England at Tom's Guide that had some interesting news about the company we all know and love, Rabbit, that we talk
00:38:43
about so nicely all the time. Um, if you don't know about them, they're the people who made that R1 AI box that's
00:38:49
most well known for being orange and being able to do almost nothing. Um, but this all started from an interview with Jesse Lou from Tom's Guide where he was
00:39:02
coming on to announce that Rabbit OS 2 is coming out soon and he continued to tease a new device which first of all,
00:39:10
two things about that interview or the article about that interview. Jason at Tom's Guy is saying Rabbit OS2
00:39:17
seems rather good now, which seems kind of interesting because it was I've been seeing on the
00:39:24
Okay. Well, he also said the review is coming soon, but I can't find the review anywhere. Probably because of something
00:39:29
we're going to talk about later. But Jesse also kept teasing that the Gen Two device is going to be a threein one.
00:39:36
What does that mean? It means shampoo, conditioner, and body wash, bro. Come on, man. Which, by the way, are always bad. Yeah. Don't use three in one.
00:39:48
Never use two in one, three in one. Don't do that. First of all, what are the three devices and what is the one
00:39:54
thing it's in? Second of all, we make fun of everything that is like X in one in tech in life generally cuz they're
00:40:00
usually terrible. I love feeling the keyboard keys on my tablet on the back of my tablet with my three in one. One orange, two square,
00:40:09
three AI, three AI. It's just the same thing but R2 instead. Yeah. But anyway, so after he released that interview, they received multiple tips
00:40:20
alleging that Rabbit has a history of either paying late or failing to pay. Some of their employees are contractors.
00:40:26
Um, and a number of employees have been on strike since October. Hell yeah. Um, so this is what the report says.
00:40:32
This is obviously still all alleged. We will link the article to both of these in the show notes if you would like to
00:40:38
read all of it. There is a hilarious graph of the timeline of how often people didn't get paid, which is
00:40:43
basically just a straight line of people not getting paid. To be clear, people not getting paid is
00:40:49
not hilarious. The graph Yeah. Yeah. The graph is very funny because it's barely a graph. It's just a list. Um
00:40:55
just every month workers not paid work. Um, so from January to June 2025, payments to some contractor's employees were at minimum each month 8 days late.
00:41:07
Some months being 37 days late. That's is that late? Is 37 days late? That's another month. That's just crazy. I'd love to get a double check.
00:41:17
I'd love to get a double check when the check before just never came. Um, and then July, August, and
00:41:23
September, there were contractors and employees who hadn't been paid at all. Um, some of the employees threatened to
00:41:28
go to the press and were met with pleas to. Those responses uh the or rabbit's response to the employees were along the lines of payments would be conditional based on additional investment coming to
00:41:38
the company at the end of October. What you might get paid if we make more money
00:41:44
or and it's not even if we make more money. It's we get more investment. Yeah. I feel like that should be immediate red
00:41:50
flag as employee. Um, three of the employees have been on strikes since the start of October, which three does not
00:41:56
sound like a lot. It's not, but Rabbit only has 26 employees. So, that's a fair chunk of 26 isn't that much either. Um, and if I can go on a side rant, Ellis
00:42:08
will love this. I was trying to figure out how many employees Rabbit had. So, I typed in Google how many how many employees does Rabbit AI have? What happened? The Google AI overview
00:42:19
said uh the Rabbit R1 company has 26 employees. And that actually goes into a whole thing about how they're not
00:42:24
getting paid right after that because of the most recent article. But I was like 26 that sounds totally
00:42:29
reasonable. Um but I just want to find the exact quote that they got that from. So the
00:42:35
links weren't really helping me on the side. And then I went into the AI mode and said, "Can I see the exact quote you
00:42:40
got this 26th number from?" And I said, "Well, it's not an exact quote. In fact, we're just basing this all on an
00:42:46
estimation of other information. Some websites say 5 to 10, some say 25 to 50, but then I was clicking the sources for that was bringing me to other rabbit like companies
00:42:58
basing the number off of the wrong thing only for me to then read the rest of the
00:43:03
original article I was re uh reading and rabbit themselves are quoted in there saying 26 employees. So, it was right.
00:43:10
There was an exact quote. AI overview just couldn't find the quote that it was right about.
00:43:15
It's the second worst product ever made. Well, on their LinkedIn it says two to 10.
00:43:21
Their LinkedIn says 2 to 10, which is what I was about to write. But then in the Tom's Guide quote, they said it's
00:43:26
three employees who are currently on strike and we have 26 total employees. Maybe it's 2 to 10 and then they have
00:43:32
contractors possibly. I mean, they definitely there's contractors are not paying. So that could be right.
00:43:38
That's true. Just just to clarify, I did not mean the rabbit R1 is the second worst product ever made. I meant Google
00:43:43
AI overviews is the second AI app. Is the first worst product the human AI pen? No, it's LG's web OS2. It's just insane
00:43:50
that they did that to us. Dang. Um, Rabbit has responded to this. They claims they were ready to sell
00:43:56
units in India, but due to regulations that got paused, which caused a money flow issue. Um they uh Jesse claims that
00:44:04
they've signed a or they've signed a term for a next round of investing and will get everyone paid for sure. Cool.
00:44:11
Uh take that as you will. Um but like with all of this going on, how can you look at Rabbit in a positive light at all? I mean
00:44:22
like this is the company that like their their founding was like this weird NFT pivot. Do you remember that?
00:44:28
Vaguely. I the Coffeezilla videos on all of this were like crazy based on like the NFT stuff and then how like some of
00:44:35
the AI things that we were it was doing was like if it you asked to play its favorite song, it would just play the Beatles every time. It like wasn't even really doing anything. It was just like, "Oh yeah, the Beatles."
00:44:46
And then their whole generative UI thing was completely false. And like their weird tech demo live event thing was like totally staged and
00:44:54
like I don't know, man. This Yeah. So, it's one of those things where they're launching Rabbit OS2 and they're
00:45:01
saying a new product's coming out next year. Sounds like they're trying to get funding to pay those employees. Yeah, it sounds like they're trying to
00:45:07
pay their employees and maybe stay alive. I mean, they stayed alive longer than Humane.
00:45:13
Congrats. They ain't making printers. Yeah. At least they're not in the, you know,
00:45:18
HP dungeon. Yeah, true. It It's None of this makes me say I want to give them another
00:45:24
chance with the OS2. But we got to do the same thing we did a week ago. We got to find something nice to say.
00:45:30
Why do we do that? I still like the orange. Yeah, the orange is I think the rabbit has amazing packaging.
00:45:36
The little like Game Boy case kind of thing. That clear plastic that rules scratches very easily though.
00:45:41
Yeah, but it's great packaging. So, if we said something nice, you can't be mad. Yeah. Everyone calls us tech doomers. I
00:45:48
think it's totally reasonable to watch a company hype something up, completely fail to deliver, and lose trust in that
00:45:55
company. Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, especially when it's over and over and over, you know.
00:46:00
Yeah. Fold me once. So, yeah. Let us know if you're using Rabbit OS2. Can't get folded again.
00:46:06
And if there's more than 26 people saying that, I'll know one of them wasn't working for the
00:46:12
All right. Well, that's depressing. You know, I guess we'll uh speaking of depressing. Yeah. Ad break. Um, no. Trivia. Trivia is not
00:46:23
depressing. Trivia is like a fun part of our My score is dwindling and that's depressing compared to mine. Throughout American history, we have had
00:46:29
so many visionaries make immense profits off of their brilliant ideas. We had Steve Jobs and
00:46:36
Bill Gates believe that the personal computer could change the American home. We had Sergey Brin and Larry Paige
00:46:42
believe that a search tool was what Americans needed and the world needed to find what the information that they needed on the web. Jimmy Wales. Who's Jimmy Wales? The
00:46:53
Wikipedia guy. Oh, we had Jimmy Wales, you know, and we had Gabe Newell who realized that
00:47:00
knives actually make a better casino than product. True. And with his billions, Gabe Newell just
00:47:07
received shipment of his new 360 foot mega yacht. This thing has and I I got I from reading it has a hospital on board. It has a basketball
00:47:21
court on board. It has 15 gaming PCs, which feels like not that many. Like, is that how many fit on a basketball court? It has a hot That's how many fit near the hot tub. Um, but guys, what is the
00:47:35
name of this yacht? And it This is a multiple choice question, so let's get our options. Is this from his yacht brand? Cuz he's
00:47:41
now the CEO of a yacht brand. You're You're kidding me. I'm not kidding you. This is like recent news from a couple months ago.
00:47:47
Jesus. He like has a yacht company now. This guy owns a yacht company and can't buy steam.com.
00:47:53
Who owns steam.com? No one. Still, is it like a Satoshi Nakamoto sort of situation? I have no idea. Yeah, maybe. Steam.com used to be
00:48:04
Never mind. I would sell this to Valve for like $1 billion. A A Alex a L YX named after the Half-Life character. B Leviathan cuz it's really
00:48:16
really big. C. The USS Shinji Ikaru. And I had to look this up. Shinji Ikaru is a
00:48:24
neon Genesis Evangelian character. I hope I said all any of that right. Or D. Zero Day named after the kind of exploit. Why do we do the music?
00:48:38
Because otherwise I'm just going to be reading a list. Yeah, fair. I like the music to be clear.
00:48:44
Okay. Um Yeah. We're going to talk about Gemini 3 and the other stuff Google did
00:48:50
after this. Um, so bye. Don't go away. Bye. No, not not by. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Sorry. We'll be
00:49:01
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That's shopify.com/waveform. Shopify.com/waveform. Welcome back. Uh we were blessed by Google this week for dropping a big announcement on a Tuesday. Google.
00:51:31
Google. Thank you to uh Sundar for dropping this on a Tuesday. Anyway, we got a big announcement. Uh it's Gemini
00:51:37
3. So, previously we're on Gemini Gemini 2.5 and it was kind of falling behind a
00:51:43
little bit. Um Opening I had released GPT 5, which was a little bit of a disappointment. Recently they had GPT
00:51:50
5.1, we had Cloud Sonnet 4.5. Now Google has released Gemini 3. Uh Google's calling it its most intelligent and factually accurate AI system yet. That's quite important. Uh they call it the
00:52:03
strongest model in the world for multimodality and reasoning. Supposed to be much better at nuance. Uh they talked
00:52:10
about this a lot. So like trying to actually understand what you mean instead of just what you say. That was a
00:52:16
big focus for them. Another big thing about Gemini 3 is it's supposed to be much less sycopantic and much more
00:52:23
objective. So it's supposed to be a lot more to the point when it gives you answers. It's not going to be like
00:52:28
you're absolutely right, you're the most beautiful person in the world, stuff like that. So, it's
00:52:33
what if that's what I want for I mean, you could probably ask it to do that if but by default it's going to be
00:52:38
just a lot more straight to the point, more objective. It's also much better at math and science. Um, and yeah,
00:52:47
these updates just sound like it went from third to fourth grade. Yeah. Like each one of these just like we're
00:52:53
going through elementary school now except we're really good at math. Yeah, I I listened to an interview with Deis
00:52:59
Hassavas uh who is the CEO of Google DeepMind and a few years ago he did this interview and he said we are 5 to 10 years ago away from AGI and then in this interview he said we're 5 to 10 years
00:53:11
away from AGI. Uh and that was you want to guess what he'll say in 5 to 10 years? I was going to say I'm pretty sure he gave
00:53:17
that he said that three years ago. So a big feature of Gemini 3 is that it's supposed to create dynamic uh
00:53:24
interfaces. So if you ask like what is the threebody problem in Google search and it uses the AI mode, it's supposed to explain it and then also create an
00:53:36
interactive animation that you can like play with to actually show you how it works. And that's a really big feature of this of this model that they're
00:53:47
really pushing is kind of the learning capabilities. the ability to be able to move through things that you're trying
00:53:54
to learn with this platform. Um, and it didn't work for me. So, I I tried pretty much every single exact prompt that they
00:54:05
had given it in the ads that they put out and none of them worked. On one of them, I asked for a visualization of the threebody problem just like it had asked or just like they put in the the video.
00:54:17
And it described what a visualization might look like. And then I said, "Can you just make the visualization?" And it
00:54:22
said, "I don't have the ability to make interactive visualizations." And I'm definitely on Gemini.
00:54:28
This is just on like the Google.com AI mode. AI mode. Yeah, AI mode. But you have to
00:54:33
change the drop down to the one that includes like graphical things or something. There's like the default one
00:54:39
which is just like regular problem solving and then they have a special one that will like whip up UIs and stuff. Yeah.
00:54:44
How do you get to that? Me and D were trying to figure this out earlier because on my account it's just a drop down and on his it's nowhere to
00:54:51
be found. I on mine it does not show at all. Maybe it's like rolling out. It's possible that this is rolling out slowly. Um but yeah, it seems like
00:54:58
Google is kind of starting to try to skew Gemini towards being like a a tool that you can use to learn, a tool that you can use to build UIs. Um, and as
00:55:09
part of that, they released Google Anti-gravity. And this is a dedicated app that you can download. It's kind of
00:55:15
Google's response to Cursor. Cursor was this AI coding app that has blown up in the last year, gotten very, very
00:55:21
popular. Most companies are using it as an IDE. You may remember it from Trivia Extravaganza where Ellis looked at all of the startups that were founded by YC and it was like the cursor of blank. the
00:55:34
blank the cursor of blank like those companies that that's what cursor is from. Yeah. And cursor costs $20 a month for
00:55:40
the pro version. Uh pro plus is 60 and ultra is 200. So Google's anti-gravity is free which is pretty cool for now. For now um and it's pretty good. Adam
00:55:53
and I both used it last night. I used it to create so whenever there's a new model that comes out that talks about
00:55:59
its vibe vibe coding capabilities I just have it build my pina colocator app which is like where to find the best
00:56:05
pinina colada near you and it honestly did a pretty decent job. It did a pretty decent job. It looked
00:56:11
like a like a template you would find on a website building thing. Whether or not it was functional was different but like
00:56:17
at least the front-facing UI of it all was like okay I could see this. Yeah. But I had made Gemini 2.5 build
00:56:24
pina colocator and it looked horrible. So this is definitely a big improvement in the pina colada finding capabilities.
00:56:31
Um if you want to use that as a benchmark. I was just going to say this is the benchmark that all AI companies should be using.
00:56:37
Yeah. But the kind of cool thing about Google Anti-gravity is that it's it's it's got different modes depending on
00:56:44
how forward with the agents you want to be. So there's a mode where it's mostly you coding, but then you can just like
00:56:50
talk to it. There's one where you tell it what you you want it to do, but then it creates a checklist and it asks you
00:56:57
across every step if you liked that or if you want to modify it. And then there's another mode where it just
00:57:02
basically does everything in one shot. Mhm. And so it is an IDE, but based on the
00:57:08
interview that I heard with Demis, it's more that it's like a development tool that they built an IDE around as opposed
00:57:14
to an IDE with AI features. So it's it's agent first. Um, so I mean it's pretty cool and I think that a lot of the industry is now going to move over from cursor which is kind of bad for cursor.
00:57:26
Famously Google bought Windurf which was like one of the biggest acquisitions ever and that was also I believe like an
00:57:33
AI coding um environment. I'm really interested in this in particular because cursor has been such a game changer for the developers I know. Yeah. And they they're working in like very
00:57:44
big code bases. So like cursor seems to be able to understand everything, you know. Yeah. Uh I I obviously haven't like when we
00:57:51
mess around with these things, we don't we're not connecting to some like big corporate database, you know. So I'm not sure how it's going to function in those
00:57:57
situations. I would imagine fine, but I don't know. We haven't been able to test it. I just like opened up my
00:58:03
personal website and had it do a couple things just to see if it would get the context of it. So like to your point
00:58:09
earlier where you were saying that they they were trying to make it more nuanced. One of the things I did was in my personal website I basically just
00:58:16
have a list of the places that I've worked right. So like I have it's my resume. So I have waveform as one of
00:58:21
them like waveform podcast and I told it in the IDE I didn't do this in Google Gemini or anything like I was just like,
00:58:27
put a floating emoji of a microphone next to waveform podcast, which coding a floating emoji that will like animate a little bit, not super difficult, but the context of like understanding the word
00:58:41
waveform podcast, finding where it is on the page, putting this right next to that in particular. I was wondering if
00:58:47
that would work, if that would like trip it up at all, and it did it like perfectly fine, which was like pretty interesting. So, how did you do that? Did you give it
00:58:53
a screenshot of your website or did you put the code up my project cuz I have my React code just like my website is built in
00:59:00
React and I don't even know some some whatever it it's built in React. So I have that folder on my computer in my computer. So I just opened it up on an IDE. It
00:59:11
looked through everything and was able to like figure it out. Yeah. Um, one thing that I did find
00:59:16
interesting though was this morning I was trying to I've been like having on my to-do list and my website forever
00:59:23
that I want to add a second page, right? You have a second page for what? Games.
00:59:28
I know. So, that I did that this morning. Oh, you did? I had to. I wanted to add a second page because I didn't have a second page at
00:59:35
first. It was just a static website cuz that's the easiest thing to host in AWS. Like whatever. Uh, so I told it to use
00:59:41
React Router to make a second page, which is that's just how you like navigate pages in React, whatever. Uh,
00:59:46
and it completely just built out a second page for me, no problem. And I was like, okay, that's that's fine. That's cool. Like I'm I'm glad it did
00:59:52
that relatively quickly. And then I was like, okay, now make a snake game in that page. And it made a snake game. So
00:59:58
if you go to my website and you look at that snake game, there's a snake game there. And I put.com. What? Adamolina.com.
01:00:04
Yes. Yes. Adamolina.com. But I also put Marquez's face as the little thing that you have to eat if you play the snake
01:00:10
game. But I'll just if anyone wants to see, please just go to the video, not my website,
01:00:16
because I pay per click for people that go there. So, also, unless I'm using the wrong keys. Oh. Oh, it's as And it does kind of break if you go left
01:00:27
and then if you go left and then right, it immediately kills you. I thought that's what just snake did. Oh, maybe it does.
01:00:32
Oh, cuz you're on top of yourself. Nothing's popping up though. Okay, I'm just spinning around. Um, oh wait, I
01:00:38
got a score and I don't even know how I got it. Okay, one thing that I found very funny about Google Anti-gravity is you have to
01:00:45
obviously give it a lot of permissions because it has to be able to control parts of your computer, everything. Everything. But when you uh install it
01:00:52
and then it brings up the website where it's like thanks for installing Google Anravity. You've successfully authenticated. Uh it has a docs link and
01:01:00
then it has a Twitter link and it calls it it says Twitter. It doesn't call it X, which I find, as it should, quite
01:01:05
funny. Um, anyway, something about Gemini 3 that I was thinking about that feels a bit concerning is like this is very cool that you can do these generative UIs, right? Like you're
01:01:17
supposed to be able to do these generated um interactive tools that helps you understand math and science.
01:01:24
You can ask it about mortgages and it creates like charts that kind of like show you what things would cost and all this stuff. But this is all happening on google.com, right? Like a number of
01:01:36
years ago, Google got in a lot of trouble with the European Union for scraping websites and putting the little
01:01:43
text answers on the side of Google.com. And they got in trouble because they weren't guiding people to the websites.
01:01:50
And we've talked about this before. If people are not getting guided to the websites, those website owners are not making money. If those website owners do
01:01:56
not make money, then Google does not have information to scrape from. So if you keep people on google.com and you're
01:02:03
just you ask any question and it just creates an interactive thing for you on google.com,
01:02:09
it kind of feels like Google is trying to make Gemini and Google.com effectively the same thing where you can
01:02:16
just do everything in one little window. And I see where the value in that is obviously, but then no websites are going to get any traffic. So, I don't
01:02:28
know. The far-reaching elements of this, if this is like very successful, make it feel like SEO is
01:02:35
just officially cooked. Um, well, it's new SEO now. Now, your SEO has to get picked up by
01:02:40
Yeah, but then you're not getting But then you get nothing from it. You get nothing. So, what's even the benefit? Yeah. I don't know. I I foresee a future
01:02:47
in which there is a much tighter integration of content creator/ like writer relationships with their audience and that's going to be the way people make money. It's not going to be the the
01:02:58
banner ad version of the internet that we have had for a very long time and has been dying a a pretty quick death but
01:03:05
either way that is it is pretty weird. Um there have been pretty interesting demos that people have been putting all
01:03:10
over the internet. Someone asked for a interactive 3D Lego builder and it made it for them like instantaneously which is pretty cool. I can't get any of this stuff to work and it's very frustrating.
01:03:22
I think you're using the wrong mode. I don't know man. I've been trying that drop down. I've been trying. Either way, people are
01:03:28
pretty excited about it which is a big shift from how people are feeling about GPT5. Uh which was a pretty big letdown
01:03:34
to a lot of people. So, it's uh the the races are are heating up forever and always. And uh now we're here. Adam made a pretty sick game this morning. Or you used the example that
01:03:46
Oh, yeah. So, when David and I were trying to test this out, we were trying to figure out why it was showing up on my account, not on his. Yeah. One of the
01:03:53
prompts was that someone on X had posted like, "Make me a dino game that has me jumping
01:04:00
over the latest news stories from today." And then it's basically like, you know, when Chrome has no internet
01:04:05
and you just play the Dino game that jumps over things and gets a high score. It's that, but every obstacle that comes your way is just a news story. But the
01:04:12
first news story, cuz it did it for me, like it spun it up. I had a little game to play. Uh the first news story was
01:04:18
such a long headline that there was no way to win. It was just like you would jump and it would just jump high enough. You would fall immediately into the
01:04:24
first block and just like crash out. Yeah, it was very funny. So, I don't know. Mess around with it. See what you
01:04:30
see what dumb games you can make. And anyway, that was the big news of the week. Um, so I think that we are going
01:04:35
to take it to trivia before we do our second trivia ad break. Trivia, dude. Trivia, dude.
01:04:41
The standard way to measure reverb time is called RT60, which is the amount of time the reverb tail takes to drop 60
01:04:49
dB. Wait, why are you asking a question about reverb? Because the shirt that we're that I'm
01:04:55
currently wearing and that Andrew is also wearing is called reverb. The waveform reverb. I thought you were going to put the reverb on. Oh.
01:05:01
Oh, yeah. Reverb. Please write on your whiteboards the correct abbreviation for decibb. Oh, okay. The correct abbreviation. I
01:05:15
got it. Okay. If you say so. This is definitely a trick question. Question. Question. Question. Alone.
01:05:27
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01:08:28
Oh, hey. Welcome to gift wrapping. Wa. So we sana. Hey, can you wrap these, please? Wow. iPhone 17s. You splurged. At
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T-Mobile, you can get four iPhone 17s on them. It's the perfect gift for everyone. I'm the worst. I only got my mom a robe.
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Well, it's better than socks. So, I have to trade in my old phone, right? No. At T-Mobile, there's no trade-ins
01:08:48
needed when you switch. Keep your old phone or give it as a gift. Incredible. In fact, wrap up my old phone, too, for
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agreement, $256 gigabytes, $830 required. Visit t-Mobile.com. All right, welcome back. We're uh
01:09:29
beginning this third segment with a story because Adam and I ran into each other on our morning commutes. And uh we
01:09:37
we got on the PAT train, we left New York City, we got to New Jersey, and we were waiting at the bus stop. And New
01:09:43
Jersey Transit buses have an app that The Verge famously said is a bad app, but I think is a good app. Nei
01:09:52
it's a good app. It's okay. It's for a public transit app. It's amazing. Okay, so let's Anyway, we open
01:09:58
the New Jersey Transit app and try to activate our tickets and lo and behold, we cannot connect to the server. And I'm
01:10:05
like, what's going on? And then Adam goes, oh, it must be the Cloudflare thing. And I go, what Cloudflare thing?
01:10:10
And uh that's how I found out cl and then we had the really funny joke of like, how do we explain to the bus
01:10:17
driver that neither of us have cash, but we need to get to work and the app doesn't work? Like, do you go do you go
01:10:22
up to the bus driver and say, so do you know what Cloudflare is? So, Cloudflare, you basically got EMPD. Yeah. Basically, every I forget what what day
01:10:34
was this? Tuesday. Yeah. Uh earlier this week. This is out. This is yesterday. Yesterday at the time of recording,
01:10:40
I was trying to find something at IKEA cuz Alex was going to it and the IKEA website was down. Yeah. Like a lot of the internet was
01:10:45
down. And I feel like every time one of these moments happen, everyone collectively realizes how much power we
01:10:51
give these like server companies basically that keep the infrastructure of the whole internet up. Didn't you say
01:10:58
that down? Didn't you say down detector was down? Down detector was down. Even down detector was down. If down detector is down, whatever
01:11:04
you're about to search for is probably down. That's Yeah, they don't need to be up during this.
01:11:09
Yeah. No, but it's just like one of those moments that everyone like when AWS goes down. I think that happened like two weeks ago. And everyone's like,
01:11:15
damn. Like, there's a lot of services that run on AWS. People like legit can't use their jobs. Yeah. It feels like large portions of
01:11:21
the internet are just falling apart like every few months now. Yeah. But brings me to my discussion
01:11:27
point because Jonno sent me a a tweet that he found this morning from private talk Y on X that he was like, "This
01:11:34
might be a good discussion on waveform." And I clicked it and I was like, "Huh, okay." Yeah. So, here's the question.
01:11:40
You have to pick one. Do you want unlimited cloud storage but you can only use cloud services or unlimited local storage but everything is local.
01:11:53
So when you say everything is local you mean you have to download every YouTube video you want to watch. Every YouTube video, every service you
01:11:58
use, it has to be local. So Spotify, you have to download the songs first. Wait, how do I use Twitter then?
01:12:04
You have to download a hundred tweets at a time. Isn't that what Twitter already kind of does? Yeah, kind of. But yeah. Uh that's
01:12:12
I would say well no you would have to have the entirety of Twitter on your phone. It's really
01:12:17
you have unlimited storage. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to imagine this as a regular website browsing kind of thing in terms of like YouTube, Twitter, and stuff like that. As it just like everything that I
01:12:29
save, would I rather have it all local or all cloud-based? I still think that's a fair question because would I rather
01:12:35
have it all local where I'm individually uh transferring things between all my different devices which can be a pain in the neck or would I rather all my devices be able to connect to the same
01:12:47
cloud thing but then we have an internet issue even that's a hard question I think if it was in terms of live your
01:12:54
entire life on the internet we'd have to start imagining some things that don't really exist for things like YouTube And
01:13:03
um I mean unless my phone just had 1 billion terabytes of just literally every single thing in the world it could I still use like
01:13:16
like how different is the world in this fantasy? Like can I use iMessage or is is it like every time I want to sync my iMessage across devices I need to like put all of my text on a thumb
01:13:28
drive and like move them over? So, dude, even if it's just stuff you're saving locally, like if I took some photos now,
01:13:35
every time I want to send them to the other families that I was with, I have to bring them an SSD and like plug it
01:13:42
into their computer. What's the the IP over Aven from Oh, yeah. Over Aven. Yeah. Yeah. Do Okay, I'm going to bring this back into territory that I'm intimately
01:13:54
familiar with. Do you guys use Obsidian? No. No. The note-taking app. No one Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. So, this the answer to that
01:14:00
question. I know. I just set it up. I know. So, the way Obsidian Sync works is the files
01:14:05
themselves are local. They're in a folder on like your hard drive somewhere. And what you do is you can either set
01:14:11
this up yourself or pay Obsidian $5 a month, which is how they make money to keep that folder in sync across all of
01:14:17
your devices. If you don't want to pay them, you could just set it up yourself. So, that's like an option. So, in this world, in this scenario, I'm envisioning
01:14:24
basically everything works like that. like you have a hard drive somewhere at home that has unlimited folders. So to
01:14:29
your iMessage question, you would have to then like every time you pull out your phone, you got to like pull down to
01:14:34
refresh and have it sync across the servers, you know? Yeah. And then I would get all my local files on all of my devices. So that's obvious
01:14:41
answer. It's not cloud versus it's not cloud versus local. It's would you rather have access to the world's like cloud
01:14:49
network, cloud back end, or would you rather have to set up everything yourself, PewDiePie style, so to speak?
01:14:56
Hm. I have thought about this so many times, Adam. Now that I understand the true paradigm of of what you're
01:15:02
presenting here, I I I really have a lot to say because in a perfect world, I would love to have everything local. It's the reason I don't have an eightle
01:15:14
mattress. Well, there's a lot of reasons I don't have an eightle mattress, but that's up there. Um,
01:15:20
I if I could be confident that I was secure, that all my stuff was like encrypted properly and no one could break into my
01:15:31
home networks or s, you know, that's the benefit of like the cloud. Yeah, I think the security is what keeps me from like going full quote unquote
01:15:42
off-rid. And I know it's like the most ridiculous use of off-grid ever, but you know, like I think I will be bound to
01:15:49
the cloud flares to the Google Drives. Actually, Google Drive is not secure at all. Don't don't keep safe. It's secure because it's impossible to download anything from it. So, no one's
01:16:00
going to take your stuff anyways. But think about this, too. Like if you had to have everything local, you if
01:16:05
anything was on your computer, you couldn't access it on your phone and vice versa. No, no, not local. Like like I I think
01:16:11
what Adam's actually asking is like would it would you ra like assuming a world where there was no black and white where either like you did not have access to any internet backbone stuff
01:16:23
other than DNS like cuz because in I think in Adam's definition of local you're allowed to set up a server. You know what I mean? Where you create
01:16:33
your own cloud storage and have in infinite storage in that world but you have to deal with it then.
01:16:39
Yeah. But then you have then you have to be the one that's like actively managing it. It's like the it's almost like asking like it's not like asking like
01:16:45
would you rather eat vegetables or not eat vegetables. It's like would you rather only eat vegetables that you grow
01:16:50
yourself or only eat vegetables that you get from the store? Which I guess for most people they've
01:16:56
already made that choice. But it's the same way with file storage. Like most people do not host a single thing right
01:17:01
themselves. And as someone who's like tried to host things themselves in their apartment, like got a big fancy router
01:17:07
that I can hold multiple networks on and like dude that thating sucks. It's a lot. It's a lot of work. It's definitely a lot of work. I know. But the idea of being free, See,
01:17:17
I told you. I I thought a lot about that. Especially if you have unlimited storage in this in this perfect world of
01:17:23
unlimited storage. Sounds like local's the obvious answer with the extra work. I just thought that
01:17:29
it would it was an interesting question because like then my mind went to like what Ellis was saying like okay then there's the privacy the security the
01:17:36
ease of use the part of the big talk about all this AI stuff is that it's all done on a server somewhere you don't
01:17:41
have to worry about it like do so does that mean I need to download these models and run it myself on my own server if I want to use AI
01:17:47
well don't that's a whole other thing we should talk we should do a bonus episode on that but Andrew like one of your
01:17:52
favorite products of the last 12 months that I've heard you bring up a lot is the picture frame the smart picture frame Like would you get as much
01:17:59
enjoyment out of that picture frame if you had to manage that server yourself? I guess. Sure. Like the picture frames server. The way
01:18:10
the picture frame works is it's pulling pictures off of my phone, right? But if you had to if you like if
01:18:16
if you had a network like a at your house, a router and it was up to you entirely to vibe
01:18:22
code all of the systems. Oh, then we're talking in like a Yeah, this world is crazy then. So, when you want to go uh watch TV
01:18:33
or I guess stream things, you have to have you're setting up. No, I I don't think there's It's a Plex
01:18:38
server. You have to get a Plex server. Exactly. Okay. Yeah, that's a ton of extra work.
01:18:44
It is. I think you just don't get to do anything. No, people People do this. This is why
01:18:49
you need to be on Twitter, man. No, this is not why I need to be on Twitter. Pew, did you didn't PewDiePie just I
01:18:56
cannot believe how many times I brought up PewDiePie in this episode, but did this was like a whole thing. It's like PewDiePie like embarked on this as like
01:19:03
a side quest and um and instantly got hacked. Um nice. Yeah, I don't know. You don't even seem interested by the concept. I think I'm more confused by the
01:19:14
concept. Okay, if that makes sense. I'd probably just pick cloud then. you like you to you like I mean cloud is the obvious choice here, right? Like
01:19:26
I mean what we're talking about it's the one you don't want to make but it's the easy choice. Yeah, there are obvious downsides for for example like a random company like
01:19:33
Cloudflare could have a bug and all of a sudden you lose access to like half of your digital life. You also like can
01:19:39
never really know how secure your stuff is because you just have to trust these companies that time and time again
01:19:45
actually like violate your trust. Um, you have to pay them money, which sucks. I hate paying people money. Um, I mean, the same thing's true with the other thing. You could have a house fire
01:19:57
and now you've lost literally every piece of everything that you have. You could have a weird
01:20:02
electrical surge. You could have a spill water on something. Yeah. Yeah. On the other hand, this is one of those those questions that has no answer and everyone on
01:20:13
Facebook just yells at each other about it. On the other hand, if you wanted to like edit a video, you'd have to like stream
01:20:21
the footage, right? If you were all online, you'd have to edit the video online. And if and then if the internet isn't fast enough, I guess it Yeah, like you're streaming
01:20:32
it from whatever server you've uploaded it to. In this metaphor, you plug in the memory card and it uploads to the cloud
01:20:39
and then but then to edit a video locally, you have to like stream it. Let's let's remove ourselves even
01:20:45
further from the reality we live in. I think I think the question that is most interesting here is would you rather
01:20:52
everything be Chromebook? Like there's no processing, no storage, nothing gets done on your end. You're
01:20:58
effectively using a terminal at this point, right? or everything be RTX 5090 Super Chud gaming PC gaming PC cuz sometimes I'm in a coffee shop and either they don't have internet
01:21:11
or the internet's bad and I want to edit video but then but then where are you putting your video on my unlimited local storage for you to watch by yourself?
01:21:22
No, I don't. Yeah, maybe this is tough. This is hard. Marquez, please come home.
01:21:28
Dad. Dad, wait. You're right. Can you not be a YouTuber if you have unlimited local
01:21:34
storage? The way that I was build your own YouTubers. No, not thinking about this was this the infrastructure like all these companies still exist. Like the infrastructure is
01:21:45
still there, but you can only access the things by having it local. So, everyone gets everything else but my
01:21:50
goddamn frame I have to figure out by myself. Well, like YouTube or Spotify, let's say, like you're you're heading
01:21:55
out for the day and it's like, I'm not going to be home all day, but I want to listen to music. I have to like download everything.
01:22:01
Download everything in order to listen to it. Like, it's only available on local.
01:22:07
We lived that life like 15 years ago. Yeah. Everything was great. It was everything was better. Okay, so here we go. We've landed on an answer. Just take us back 20 years. If you just wanted to say iPods are
01:22:18
sick, we could have just said that. Could have just said that. It's a really interesting point that I think a lot
01:22:23
about because I do feel like we are increasingly Yeah. entering an era. Going to choose my words very carefully here. Give me a sec. All right. So, I'm leaving these pauses
01:22:37
in. I think we are increasingly entering an era that resembles feudalism. Yeah. technical where we are nothing but surfs to the
01:22:48
cloud flares and the Amazon and whatever Larry Ellison's nonsense is called. Yeah. And um isn't that already what we It's technofutilism. Yeah. All right. Can we please go to
01:22:59
trivia, guys? Trivia. I wish I had like a sad version of the trivia music. This is interesting, guys. Turns out you don't actually need Marquez Brownley. Yeah, I think
01:23:12
the numbers will show that later after this episode. Turns out we do actually need more. It turns out you don't actually need to
01:23:18
be a technofudalist to make a billion dollars. All you needed to do is convince children across the world to
01:23:25
gamble on knives. Gabe Newell did that and bought a 360 ft yacht. I need you to tell me which of these is the actual name of his ginormmo. Are you also bought a yacht
01:23:37
company to be clear? Did you Did we confirm that? Yes. Okay. What a what a guy, man.
01:23:43
Mhm. Are you ready? He loves the C. A. Alex. A L YX. Like the Half-Life character
01:23:49
that's not in Halfife 3. B. Leviathan, which is just a word that means ginormmo.
01:23:55
C. The USS Shinji Ikaru from the neon jealous neon genesis evangelan protagonist. I think maybe he's an antagonist. Maybe it's a it's a she. I don't know. Uh or D. Zero day referring
01:24:09
to the kind of exploit. I put B cuz I thought C was a trick question. Uh B is the correct answer. It's called
01:24:20
the Leviathan. Uh that's such a boring name. Gabe Newell would I mean I don't actually know anything about this guy. I
01:24:27
shouldn't. It just seemed kind of funny. But also uh USS is reserved for US Navy
01:24:32
vessels. Civilian vessels cannot have the USS thing. David, congratulations on scoring. Thank god you're eighth point. I needed this. Oh, it's getting tight. It is. Where you at? N 10. Yeah. So, you're
01:24:44
still two points ahead, but it might that might change because my boy Adam has got some trivia for you right here. Hit him. Abbreviate decibb, please. What is it?
01:25:00
What do you think? And I we are going to be very pedantic on this one. as pedantic as the 67 part
01:25:08
of my trivia. Exactly. Uh yeah, actually. Yeah. Really? So, I have to say this out loud. Uh well, okay. I'm not going to be that
01:25:20
bad. Well, I have to say it out loud for audio listeners anyway. So, okay. All right. What do you guys got?
01:25:25
I wrote lowercase D, capital B. Yes. All right. I I don't know if I'll get marks off for this by wrote lowercase D, capital B with a period after it.
01:25:36
Okay. I I don't know why I thought period. That's not as pantic as I thought. Uh the the lower case and uppercase was
01:25:43
really what we're looking for here. Do you know why that is? Uh because bells is the unit and a
01:25:48
decibel is uh a tenth of a bell or 10 bells. I guess a deca bell would be 10 bells. Wait, a bell is a unit of sound. Yeah. Is it like actually like a bell? It's a unit of energy.
01:26:01
So, it has nothing to do with bells. It's not even spelled. This is why no one cares about audio. Uh, that's true. It is named after
01:26:08
Alexander Graham Bell. Founding father. Well, I think that's been it for this week. Thank you for tuning in. Make sure that you like, subscribe, and um I don't
01:26:19
know, tell us he's a big dumb idiot. Yeah, do that on whatever platform you like using. Thanks for watching. Thanks
01:26:25
for listening. We'll be back next week. Um, Marquez will finally be back from being hot in Portugal and um, hopefully
01:26:33
we'll have more news for you. Is it even hot there right now? I don't think it's look hot in all the videos. Looks kind of cool actually.
01:26:39
Not like you know the other kind of hot. Okay, behind that it's like totally normal to call your boss if you're running on a beach.
01:26:47
Andrew save us and you're throwing a frisbee. Waveform is produced by Adam and Ellis River. We're partner with Vox Media Podcast Network.
01:26:53
Honestly, produced is doing a lot of work there. And our musical is created by Vainil.
01:26:59
Bingo. Bingo. Let's go. Bro, I exercised once. End sentence. I've been so I've been so tired.